[Music] oh [Music] [Music] oh [Music] oh [Music] m [Music] [Music] he [Music] heyyyy [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 [Music] minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Applause] [Music] a [Music] [Music] w [Music] a [Music] w [Music] w [Music] [Music] w [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 [Music] minutes [Music] a [Music] Ang [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] he [Music] you [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 [Music] minutes [Music] okay it's 359 if everybody wants to find a seat we'll start in 521 [Music] seconds [Music] okay we will call the uh March 19th 2024 valua County council meeting to order at 4: p.m. um just to give you an idea of how we're going to start uh same way we do every meeting we will have an invocation first so in just a minute I will um ask you to stand up for the invocation and the Pledge of Allegiance if your faith group um you don't have to stand up yet if your faith group would like to participate um in the invocation please just send an email to uh K the letter K uh green ata.org it's Carissa down here um to my left and she will get you all set up um um to to do that you're welcome to participate is Reverend Neil he is here okay then if everybody would uh stand and just remain standing for the pledge we have Reverend Neil ganzel from Kina Presbyterian Church of Port Orange actually a um Orman Beach that's fine pray with me uh father we thank you that you have given the governance of our Belia County into the hands of these men and women and all the staff members that that back them up we pray that this day you would uh be here in the hearts and minds of each one here uh dispensing the wisdom we all should ask for when we're doing things like this and we thank you that in all that we do we are always in the presence of the great God of the universe before whom we shall all one day stand uh to give an account of Our Lives what the things we've done in the body and when it comes to pastors and fathers and mothers and Commissioners Lord we we we will stand to give an account of how well we've done for those we have served again we I thank you for each member of this commission father for the time they give to governing and that they have uh father so much to do for us give them wisdom today and their staff we pray these things these things in the L name of the Lord Jesus Christ my savior amen amen amen I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I'm sorry I know where you're from but the paper says for orang yeah chissa would you call the role Please Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey Mr Johansson here Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins here Mr Brower here we do have a quorum Full House a lot of people in the audience some of whom want to to uh speak and we're glad that you come and take that opportunity to uh to talk to us I will just uh call your name in the order that you these were handed in and just ask that when you get here we can adjust these microphones and even the height of the podium because we want to be able to hear you um this is uh recorded and videoed the public wants to hear you so um please speak clearly into the mic tell us what part of the county you're from you don't need to give your whole address um for safety reasons just tell us where you're from so your representative um can identify you and and you have three minutes um to uh to speak first we have uh Deborah deos du Dubois that's much prettier than the way I said it okay everybody gets it wrong so um my name is Deborah DUIs I live in District 1 Mr dumy is my representative I am a retired librarian with 40 years experience in public libraries and I'm a member of the library Advisory Board I moved to vucha County two years ago and applied to the library Advisory Board because I wanted to get involved and be of service to my new community the current Library Advisory board has representatives from Five County districts and two at large Representatives that provide advice and information to the library from the county citizens point of view our members are from all areas of the county in different walks of life so we can represent a wide range of viewpoints on behalf of your constituents we are an active board that meets regularly helping the library at no cost to the county at the previous Felicia County council meeting it was suggested to dissolve the library Advisory Board and Mr rectenwald suggest Ed that the friends of the library might serve in that capacity instead the friends of the library in Valia county is not one cohesive organization that works for the whole County each branch of the library has a separate Friends of the library organization that supports that individual Branch most Friends of the library groups are 501c3 nonprofit organizations that primarily raise funds through Book Sales to help the library bring Branch provide programs and equipment that the library branch cannot otherwise afford they are not set up to represent the whole County like the library Advisory Board the library Advisory Board saves you Time by making recommendations related to the library that you and your staff do not need to research we also bring ideas for programs and services to better meet the informational needs of the whole Community the public library is an important component of a strong democracy giving citizens a role in advising the library makes that democracy stronger there is no benefit to the county in dissolving the library Advisory Board I respectfully ask you not to dissolve the library Advisory board thank you thank you uh George figuro good afternoon chair Mr chairman members of the board of the council sorry uh my name is George figuro I live in within the city limits of the land in Victoria Park and um have been in this vicinity most of my life I'm here to talk about the flooding that everybody's aware of that's been going on uh first I want to thank you Mr chairman for your Clarity and your leadership on it and I know you've taken some dings from a couple directions but it's very much appreciated Mr Reon wall I appreciate you and Ben Bartlett coming out and serving the situation and and uh I think there's a good understanding of what's going on out there um I had a lot of notes prepared here but I had a opportunity to speak to Mr Mr recton Wald and I understand that that now the county is working with the city uh And discussing this issue and working jointly to uh see what can be found to remedy this I appreciate that I want to encourage that I've had uh Michael PLO the city manager of D land multiple times tell me that they want to be a partner in this and so that's that's great news um I wanted to ask uh for a couple things one um I I I would like um to understand if this is a a formal project within the vucha county uh organization if there's a project manager if there's deliverables if there's a time frame if you don't make something a project then it can languish it's been my experience so I would encourage um this to be formalized as some sort of project um I also understand there's $50 million in FEMA money out there that is um eligible for this type of situation I want to make sure we have our eye on that as well um and I um just want to remind everyone the struggles that are going on out there you know hundreds of thousands of dollars have been spent I just saw my son have to replace his septic tank because it was flooded out um now the property taxes are coming for everybody and everybody's paying full property taxes even though the value of the property I doubt anyone out there could sell it today if they had to if they were forced to so there's a lot of um damage is that's you know occurring but I am I'm encouraged by my conversation with Mr Reon wall I um want to be supportive and I encourage you all to engage my son if possible he's very knowledgeable in in this area last thing I would like to ask for um um is that this at some point in the future near term I hope be made an agenda item so that it can be discussed at length and staff can report to the council um and the public you know what's what's going on um and so I I'd like to make that request that you all consider making this a formal agenda item at some at some point so that we can all work together I I want to be an ally I want to be part of helping and so I appreciate the time and this time I used all my time thank you you may know this next speaker uh JC I'm JC figuro 1359 Jackson Woods Road sorry out of breath I ran up here so I didn't miss this um so I've been here I've complained we're still here we're hoping to see some some more attention of this um we're hoping to see some of that money that was directed uh towards some Maybe L income housing be used to this I'm still questioning some of that and what the the reason that was done um Mr Robbins you said something at one of the last meetings that that I can relate to and and I'm hoping that we can you can see my point of view a little bit it was about the high density housing coming in and you had said that you should buy yourself you know your own piece of paradise and you know you you you'll be around it but you won't really see it and I was watching the YouTube and I saw that and I'm like damn that's exactly what I was thinking when I bought mine and it has uh affected us you know so I want you to to think you know you're sitting on your porch and you're you know you told you said you got your nice piece of paradise and it's flooded mosquitoes are bad you can't let your dogs out your you know your septic doesn't work your driveway's under feet of water you can't get stuff delivered to you because they can't make it down your driveway you worry about Emergency Services not being able to find the house I mean it's that was my piece of paradise you know and and I worked for it and and dumped my heart and soul and my family into it and you know we've all as well as my neighbors and as well as lots of others and you know it's affecting us so I ask for this to be put on the agenda seriously and and really discuss and thought about this is not a storm event this is not a 100 Year this is not a 50 year this is this is regular I have water we barely got any rain the other day I still have fetal water my property's flooded I just had a 90 that's flipped upside down right now sink and uh you know these are my problem this is the problem that we're experiencing I invite every one of you guys who thinks that this is a rain event and Rain problem to come out to my house sit there hear me out listen listen to what I have to say let me show you the plans let me show you the the errors that were made let me show you what is really happening in our area I'm not saying this is a countywide problem but this is this is me and all of my neighbors within a couple square miles problem so I encourage you guys to come hear me out listen to the data that I have listen to the the stuff that I've experienced the stuff that I've witnessed and try to understand this from a from a more open perspective than this is a 50y year 100e storm this is not this is development that is horribly horribly designed and engineered that's gone wrong if you guys come out and you sit down I'll take you a tour I'll show you everything and you will understand exactly what I'm talking about there is there is if you played in the dirt at the beach as a kid or in with a garden hose in your yard you will understand exactly what I'm talking about thank you thank you Denise Mosley why you don't you don't Grant time from one person to another wow okay Denise you don't care to speak okay why don't you get it under control Danny um the council does not wish to uh Grant more time because it's in our rules that we don't do that which we could Karen delile good afternoon I am Karen delil and I live in Orman beat I'm here to thank chair Brower and County council member Santiago for attending and speaking at the faith which isn't an acronym fighting against Injustice toward Harmony uh at our action assembly last night uh where in our organization there are more than 30 places of worship across fuchia County who are members it was at Our Lady of Hope uh Church in Port Orange regarding flooding and low impact development in front of the 1,144 citizens from all over belua County who were present last night your participation was helpful and formative to your constituents flooding and low impact development are important issues to all who live in vucha County as we see developers clear cutting trees all over the county whether it's new samna beach Port Orange Daytona Delona duberry or Orman Beach to the County council members who chose not to attend your constituents noticed your absence also next I would like to address the motion to exclude audiovisual presentations Maps audio recordings from public comments to the council is it that you do not want citizens to know that the Orman Beach Airport the busiest private airport in the State of Florida with two Aviation your primary Duty don't you have more loyalty to Valia County Citizens than private interests and Enterprises we elected you to represent us and to watch for our well-being will you be serving us or will you be serving Yourself by being more expedient with public participation Time by limiting exposure of Av materials pictures and Maps thank you for your attention and in some cases your part partial attention to my comments Barbara Anne heagan good afternoon chairman Council I'm Barbara Anne heagan president CEO of the port AR South Daytona Chamber of Commerce I am coming up on my year anniversary I relocated here uh last May with one goal and that's to make a difference and I'm here today to talk a little bit about how we can make a difference in creating a strong Community Partnership and bring Solutions we are here to invite council members to attend an event coming up on April 11th and I've left Flyers with your your clerk this event is in partnership with the vucha recovery Alliance our keynote is vua Sheriff Chitwood it is being sponsored by Halifax Health we have the medical community legal law enforcement elected officials we're kind enough to have the talents of our council member Matt Reinhardt and Danny Robbins the presentation titled power networking lunch in is the opioid epidemic and the workplace developing A- recovery friendly workplace initiative that aims for the awareness to establish a clear pathway towards the creation of a comprehensive recovery friendly workplace initiative together we aspire to cultivate a supportive Community environment your partnership is crucial in making a meaningful difference we are eagerly anticipating your participation in this finally I'd like to close thanking our County Manager George reenal I had the opportunity to serve as part of the Citizens Academy and now I'm able to work across all departments with your department heads to be able to bring valuable programs to your citizens thank you so much thank you John Nicholson John Nicholson Daytona Beachside uh let me start out with before I forget uh the the new chamber for Halifax Chamber of Commerce has their new building they'll be uh have an open house next week I encourage you all to go by accident I happened to walk in and Nancy was nice enough to show me around you will be impressed as soon as you walk in the door look at that uh mural uh secondly uh affordable housing I missed that uh two weeks ago um our city has been working on this for 12 years uh we haven't yet decided the size or who needs it or where it's going to be or what the cost is going to be uh and I'm asking you guys to do that uh is there's a need now for seniors that are losing their trailers all right they've raised a lot rent they can't afford it so to me we have to look at what we need and that's big a major issue the second one is our kids when they graduate from uh College where are they going to live all right I think that is a market that we have to hit workers all right they don't need mcmansions I know uh our mayor looking at four-bedroom three bath uh three car garage kind of things that's not what we need for a starter homes that's not what we need for workers so I'm asking you to take a look at it and do as many units with the amount money that you have that you could possibly do um Beach charges I understand that's a Hot Topic But realize that if you allow the residents on the beach every resident on the beach is one less tourist on the beach and the money is not there Daytona Beach economy I've spoken it many times its major economy is tourism if you take the uh cost off the beach for the residents and they flood the beach even if it's only five six maybe a thousand residents that's a huge impact in the number of spaces left available because we live here and we'll go to the beach first and we'll take all the prime spots so uh look at it carefully before you decide it one way or the other um H I don't know how to bring this one up the NAACP has uh decided that they are going to attack the State of Florida uh our colleges they've done it in the past for different things we as a city and I think the county does a lot for the NAACP if they are attacking our colleges University of Florida did the Dei um denial and they close the Dei offices the NAACP says it's antiblack it is not so they're attacking us telling blacks not to come to the State of Florida not to come to our universities all of those things are at the core of who we are so I'm asking you to not support the NAACP if the NAACP does not support Florida or our colleges or our people thank you and that can includes the uh public comments for the first part of the meeting um you'll have other opportunities this brings us okay sounds like we have one more Carissa Carissa do we have one more let's let's direct comments to uh to the chair please no we're not I was talking to our clerk okay we have one more person Karen Clark thank you it's Karen Clark 1855 Grand Avenue up in Glenwood um I've been under the weather for 26 days already with flu so I'm reading some something that I'm going to say later as well it's regarding item five on today's agenda please stop this ridiculous idea to limit the Public's three minute participation to only verbal expression Mr chair I yes you're going to have public input for item five so I mean technically the strength okay it's up to the council but this is for items not on the agenda right you won't be here for item five I don't know if I have the strength okay I I don't have a problem with her speaking now in regards to item number five and then I don't have to repeat it later just continue um where's the clock I don't see anything um um restricting the general you're okay you've got three minutes go okay well please stop this ridiculous idea to limit the Public's three minute participation to only verbal expression this in itself is discrimination on many levels this meeting's purpose is supposed to get direction for the council vote while the direction should be placed into the garbage when the electronic media to be played during the three minute is allowed when properly submitted it should be played not everyone has the ability to speak in public whether they due to physical or mental disabilities to express themselves emotional capabilities can be frightening and what about sign language stress is also a factor in play as well well please not everyone has the internet or owns a computer nowadays to communicate with the county electronically and put this into record and I have a little bit more strength but and it's in response to today's note we're on November 7th and I don't have to read that and it's to have Headway of what you want to do with shutting us up and thank everybody for being here thank you okay takes us to uh I think that concludes public comments excuse me that takes us to item one to consent agenda does anyone any council member have an item they'd like to pull for comment or a vote pull G for comment was that you g yes sir okay I just couldn't tell if it was you or Santiago wants to pull uh G for comment only chairman I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as proposed second Vice chair Kent makes a motion to approve uh the agenda as presented seconded by Danny Robbins all in favor of approving the consent agenda please say I I any opposed consent agenda is approved and we will discuss or hear your comment on item G thank you Mr chairman I just felt it was important to highlight to the public uh an example of uh good public private Partnerships right and and recognize um a partner of ours the speedway um and the good work that George and his team has done um the public should know that this product uh this idea from from what I understand came from our leadership team in admin led by George it came from having a potentially $5 million expense to facilitate this to be in a fraction uh with this agreement the taxpayers are saving millions of dollars uh by by us doing this agreement and it's something that solely took on their own and negotiated with the uh Sheriff's Office and uh the speedway folks so good outcome for you all and it's uh it just needed to be highlight the good work that they so thank you Mr chair you're welcome uh County Manager George Reon wall yeah thank you for that and I was just going to say the initial estimate was 15 million and so it's even a bigger it's even a smaller fraction a bigger reduction so I appreciate sorry I took 10 million away from you Vice chair Kent thank you chairman just briefly Mr rectenwald third meeting in a row not one consent agenda item pulled because we're more efficient and more effective thank you okay that takes us to uh item two Proclamation which will be presented here uh by uh councilman Matt Reinhardt okay um do you need me to call somebody up cat Atwood this is for world and and sephtis day well he's coming thank you for the opportunity to address the council um world intis day is recognized on February 22nd each year and in December I wrote each of the mayors of the 16 cities and asked them if they would help me participating in world sephtis day the goal was to have a landmark lit up in each of the cities in red for the day red for wed red is the color of the of the disease wed is world and seil is day and what happened is in September of 22 out of nowhere I fell and had a a seizure never had one before and it took um a little over a year to get properly diagnosed and world and sephtis day acknowledges that there need there's a need for more education so Ken and I my husband um have spent the last 18 months trying to get the awareness out to educate people so that we wanted to let valua County kind of lead there are no other full counties in the United States and no other full states in the United States that uh publicly recognized world andil is St so I'm thrilled that the chair is here and that the Mayors U of the 16 I have 10 proclamations already good um it is incilius is uh there are several different kinds mine happens to be of the brain it came out of nowhere I was a distance Runner I was physically fit I was in Prime condition and one day I just fell out and so it's can happen to anybody anytime anywhere and I'm living proof of that I can no longer run I can't hold decent conversations because I don't have the concentration and so by taking valua County and hopefully next year the State of Florida public we're hoping to you know get more um publicity or acknowledgement of this disease it is a huge acknowledgement overseas why the United States is not embracing it we're trying to fix that so thank you very much for doing that than Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um give you a little history I've known cats since seventh grade and uh we go back a couple years so when this happened to her she was a sitting uh commissioner for the city of uh Port Orange this disease struck her from that office and a lot more that she could have done for the for the community U and she can still do and I commend her for that so um I asked to to sponsor this I appreciate the support from the rest of this Council and I'll read it whereas en sephtis is an inflammation of the brain that can be caused by infectious agents autoimmune disorders mosquito or tick bites or other factors and whereas it's not always possible to prevent en sephtis but residents are encouraged to avoid mosquito and tick exposure get vaccinated against measles mums rebella and chickenpox and and whereas symptoms which can range from mild to severe including fever headache sensitivity to light stiff neck stiff neck sorry I can't read mental confusion and seizures and whereas en sephtis is a high death rate of up to 40% we're not going to hear that and a relapse rate of 12 to 35% and survivors are often left with an acquired brain injury and long-term neurological complications and whereas early recognition and treatment can save lives and and improve patient outcomes whereas World in sephtis day was launched in 2014 and is recognized annually on February 22nd with a mission to raise Global awareness about analitis and therefore save lives and build better Futures and that's the purpose why we're here today so now therefore we the county of uh County Council of Luchia County Florida do hereby Proclaim February 22nd back dated 2024 as world and sephtis day in Valia County and thank Port Orange resident Kat thatw for her efforts to elevate in sephtis Awareness in our community dated 22nd of February thank you thank you thank you very much [Applause] that was such a a glory to have the county behind us and the cities behind us but we are putting the State of Florida from Valia County on the map and I'm I'm very proud of that I'm very proud of every official that has jumped on board as uh Matt said it's um it was hard to step down from Port Orange Council but it was the right thing to do it's been uh it's been tough the um it's tough but these friends these neighbors this County they all keep me going and I couldn't think of a better place to be so thank you very much Pat are you going to get a picture go to the fr okay uh County Council take take two big steps that way and y'all get right in the middle there okay that's good ready one more thank you thank you thank you Cat it's good to see you okay that takes us to uh item three and in just a just a minute I'm going to turn it over to the county manager George reonal to kind of introduce it but before I did that and without stealing any of your thunder I just wanted to point out um something to the council and to the public here um Laur Coleman if you would just stand up for a minute I want everybody to know that what we're about to see is outstanding work from Attorney Laura Coleman she'll say a lot of other people she led the charge for this and has well represented the county of ban George thank you Mr chair and and very well put uh certainly uh Laura and John Booker and Mike over here and and myself and Suzanne we put a lot of time and effort uh uh into this and I just want to what this U agenda item here is IT addresses the f amazing as it's time people uh have not been out to the West the uh tracks are being laid the concrete's being poured the uh you can see the uh station taking shape uh every day so uh so the train's coming and uh it'll be here this summer and uh so that's a from the Department's point of view uh it's time uh to start the transition uh um and they've agreed uh very graciously to continue to work with us as we transfer um the uh ability to run the system uh and so this starts off with a phasing agreement for that transition they're not going to just throw the keys at us and say get your conductor hat Mr re wall uh we actually have a a plan that we're putting in uh Place uh we'll go over that a little bit um but BAS basically the department uh is going to continue to uh fund this section North uh for a year after we start but will start funding uh as soon as the uh well the date that's here in the agreement coming up so the idea uh there is uh they're going to help us and they're going to continue to run it uh and they're going to do that without charge to the local government Partners so that's a value of about $224,000 a year they'll do that up to 2027 so they're giving us a couple more years to work with our partners to uh have a plan and and how this thing will be run on a day-to-day basis and the department also uh is going to help contribute on some other uh expenses uh when this uh went into um effect years ago there uh was no PC which is a positive train control it's a safety uh system that's on trains across the country it's mandatory uh they're going to contribute uh $5 million a year uh for that system which be a big help and they're also going to contribute $10 million to the first uh vehicle overhauls that'll occur after 2025 and I again uh we're very grateful that uh they're going to continue to partner with us there's a new ticketing system that uh uh they'll be responsible for until its uh implementation requirements are met and they also are taking on um part of a larger effort but they're taking on uh um the rail Bridges along the corridor and uh for many of you that have never ridden that uh there's a very large Bridge across the St John's river that uh it's a swing Bridge very uh maintenance intensive so so them helping us out with that is a is a big help as well so uh I just wanted to open with that I'm going to have Laura go over a few more of the highlights of of the agreement there'll be the transition agreement which didn't exists because there wasn't a transition and then there's amendments to the governance agreement because of that transition and uh again we've worked real hard um Laura's done a lot of heavy negotiating I was able to meet with the managers uh that are of our partners County and City uh and I think we have something that sets us up to be able to operate the system U through the next 10 years go go ahead Laura thank you Laura Coleman assistant County attorney thank you again for that kind uh introduction and Mr rald for Pick It pitching it off here um just a couple things I wanted to go over um as George mentioned this is a long time coming uh the original contracts for SunRail were were signed back in 2007 and they originally contemplated a seven-year fot funding period um obviously we're significantly past that at this point uh the system began operations in 2014 so it is time for a transition um we have been negotiating working with planning um working on draft contracts with our other local government partners and the department for months and months now um and what you have today in front of you like George mentioned are two different documents you have both an amendment to the governance agreement and you have a new operations phasing agreement which was required by the documents um the original contracts but so two different things here so the governance agreement um just for fun lawyer talk it is between the the local government partners and not with the Department itself which is another reason we've got two contracts today um this is where the Caps that you've heard about and you've talked about and we've looked at before this where the Caps are in the governance agreement the amendment to the governance agreement is going to update those caps they're outdated and they're not particularly accurate at this point um it's really required that we have numbers in place that make some sense for the future going forward uh and that don't end Us in in kind of a a deadlock every time we need to spend any money as we move forward with the transition of the system and actually start operating it out the as the central Florida rail commission um so that is involved in there uh it contemplates a beginning number of 63 million for the first fiscal year of the system that's the total number so that would be split between all the partners Don't Panic uh and then of course that number will be adjusted every year annually in accordance with the railroad cost recovery index plus 1% so the the RC um is more or less a think about it like the CPI it's just an index it's a fund that's published by the American Association of rail American rail Association excuse me uh and it goes up or down depending on what you know the market is doing and what the industry is doing so we'll follow that and plus a 1% increase um that was a number that was negotiated with our partners originally it was suggested that it'd be higher and um of course we went back and and asked that we take out a little that cushion and we make that a nice conservative number and one that we could all live with um so it will be an annual adjustment of the RCI plus one um probably the biggest change in this package is that the extended or expanded service which we like to refer to as nights and weekends uh is now something that requires a unanimous vote so until this amendment that was not true it was something that a four fifths vote could have approved so we would have gone forward with amended or excuse me expanded or extended service if the other four Partners wanted to we wouldn't have had a say uh with this amendment we do have that option if we do not choose to go forward with that service the other partners can choose to do so on their own and putot that bill and we don't have to be involved in that um if we decline to be involved in the extended or expanded service at the beginning we can opt back in later so it is not a decision point in front of you today it's not something Council needs to think about or make a decision on today excuse me but you will of course be that will come back to you if that becomes a question that's coming before the cfcc I'm sure Mr Brower would appreciate your your input before he's asked to vote on that so of course we'll bring that back if it comes up um at this point it is not on the table what you're looking at again it is an amendment that makes that a unanimous vote instead of just a super majority vote so changing things to to give us a little more control over our futures um the language that has always been in the contract about 2036 being a year that we can opt out of some of our our financial responsibility that is still the same that has not changed in the contracts there's also that operations phasing agreement which I'm not going to go through in great detail because George hit all the fun highlights uh this is really a an agreement that contemplates a staged approach to turning over transition of the system from the Department to the cfcc uh they'll and and you can you can see those stages there I won't read them to you I'm I'm confident in all of your abilities but again we're going to start start the funding uh next year and then there's kind of a two-tiered approach after that um work program is something that has always been involved in the contracts since I think 2010 I believe is when that made its way into our our agreements that is largely unchanged that is still an option that the department has in order to meet its Federal grant requirements um however of of course like I said earlier there's a cap that we have in place we've negotiated it and we are not required to spend above that cap unless we consent to it so that has has made its way in as well um and these are the things that George spoke about if you have any questions I'm certain that he would be glad to speak to it as well as secretary Tyler who was of course in the audience with us um and he I think can give you more detail than I ever could so if you have any questions we'll be happy to take those Michael did you want to interject at this point just want to say that um yeah I appreciate all the time uh Laura and George Have Spent uh to get us this far um when we originally entered into the contracts in 2007 it was anticipated provided for in the contracts that there would be a transition of the system to the local government partners and we're here uh we were required to negotiate an agreement providing for what that transition looks like and how we will governor elves uh in the uh for the Future these agreements provide for that um so the idea of a transition is not something that is new it's something we were required to do um and that's what Laura and George have been involved in in working with our government Partners in fdot to get here um and George has ackowledge there were a number of um items that benefit uh vucha County that wouldn't necessarily have occurred uh on their own but they're a result of the negotiation um and the last time we were before you uh your direction was to come back with the best deal possible and we feel that uh we have you're bringing to you um something that meets that direction so thank you that's correct um David Santiago thank you Mr chairman um here another example of uh our leadership team doing a great job um this has been a topic of conversation what you said 2007 right it's when we got into this agreement um I think um Central Florida benefits from your negotiation you done and secretary thank you for working with us I know it's probably been a headache as when you came in but uh I'm glad you're our district secretary here and I don't think it could been a better man to help us uh bring this to fruition here um I'm happy with the deal uh all Central Florida should be happy with it I wish we had this negotiation team in 2007 but where we're at but Mr chairman I move to approve item number three file number 11657 second have a motion to approve uh as presented by David Santiago second by uh Danny Robbins um we do have the uh District Five Secretary of Transportation John Tyler here uh for questions if anybody has a question from him did you care to to speak before yes sir please we appreciate you coming you had a little bit to do with this well thank you Mr chairman members of the council I actually you know had some remarks that I prepared but your staff has already covered them so I'm just going to speak from the heart if you don't mind I want to Echo um you know the the appreciation ation for your staff Miss Coleman and and Mr Booker they have been persistent and passionate advocates for Belo County through this process so you should be very proud of what they've of what they've accomplished and you know this this this transition deal that is being placed before you um it is many years in the making lots of years of of hard work but one thing that it's not it's not a fundamental change of the relationship that dot has with the cfcc partners the transition does rearrange how things are paid for and who's going to operate it but we are still together as SunRail moves into the future and that's fdot's commitment to bluch County so thank you very much for your attention to this I appreciate your support and be glad to answer any questions that you may have thank you Mr secretary um Vice chair Troy Kent do you have questions not for the secretary okay anyone have a question for the secretary I guess it was perfectly delivered by all three of you um uh Vice chair Kent thank you chairman and secretary Tyler thank you for being here we appreciate it and to miss Coleman and Mr Booker I I love hearing from the secretary talking about how passionate you were about doing this right for vucha County and uh you know I appreciate it I know my constituents appreciate it and and George thanks for being tough on this for valua it's it's much appreciated as well now my my question or comment I guess both is we received an email and this is a little off Mr Dyer but received an email I believe we all did today from a constituent talking about the Amtrak station in to land and the deplorable Condition it's in and the comment was with this agreement do we have any wiggle room to work with Amtrak as far as sprucing up that station making it look better in any way shape or form we get into the specifics but we're responsible for the maintenance uh of the stations so uh I'd have to get in the specifics of Amtrak itself because Amtrak is another user of the line so uh just like uh CSX uh rail will continue do use the line they pay to do that as well Amtrak so it's something we can go over with Amtrak to find out where they're at and I know there's some plans the station design that we're having incorporates the existing station the flavor of the place so to speak uh will be maintained uh and we can find out exactly uh what the constituents issues are but like you know that's an it's a uh older station and I think at one time there was a grant that uh the county did work with them previously and uh and painted the station uh in its Amtrak you know form so uh again we're committed to uh keeping it a a first class place it's going to be a destination it's going to be a a door it is a door today on Amtrak uh into the community as people arrive all the time uh up and down the the Eastern Corridor that goes uh with that train so uh we we'll look into that concern and we certainly don't want to have just like we if you've been out there we just as a county put a considerable amount of money into the paving of the road leading to the station uh so we got brand new pavement out there and uh and the whole area that we can control uh will be in will be in great shape for the opening and then I expect other big things uh to come thereafter thank you Mr wal I'm I'm glad we're having the conversation I look forward to continuing that conversation with you thank you councilman Dempsey yeah Excuse Me Miss Coleman um I know we talked for at length last week and I appreciate your patience with me um this uh this extensionist contract when is our option date where if we just don't like the cost of SunRail at some point that we can opt out no strings attached so the the contract documents that governs unrailed since 20 since the 2010 Amendment have allowed um the partners to opt out of their operating and their Capital cost now Us in 20 at the end of fiscal year 2036 if that's chosen 2036 so if this terms out to be too expensive for the taxpayers of uchia County doesn't seem like we're getting a good return on our investment that we could get out of this no strings attached 2036 again there there are the capital capital cost and the operating cost can be we can we can choose not to continue that that support in 2036 um some of the you know questions about the station itself and the maintenance and all we'd have to look into that later on but yes sir the primary two buckets of money for lack of a better term in 2036 at the end of that year we can make that choice it's fair to say that we're looking at maybe it's going to cost the taxpayers of alucha about 15 million a year right now kind of going into this is that a fair estimate I think that's a little high yeah I think that's not a number I would I would use yeah I think it's again the formula and what are it's not it's not divided by five or something if that's what people are thinking it's uh uh you have track mileage uh you have boardings there are other factors into it but estimates show uh running the current hours uh as a commuter line would probably be in the say six to seven $7 million a year range uh if the nights and weekends are added then I think you might be approaching more like the N9 to1 million range but as it's is now that there's no real cap anymore for us no no there's a cap on the on the daytoday uh the what I would call the backbone commuter service as it is today there is a cap we fought to maintain that cap it had to be updated because the original cap was established uh 10 over 10 years ago so just like every other construction thing that we've seen uh you know prices have you know gone way up and and at the time I think there was they did not have the years of experience uh of running the rail which we now have today so I'm much more comfortable because you know we have uh years of data all right right Mr Dempsey I'm sorry I think perhaps you were thinking of we did talk about this the other day if we choose to be part of the extended or expanded service that is not subject to a cap but like George said the the current levels of service the current hours of operation the base service that is capped so perhaps you were thinking of the extended or expanded that's exactly it all right okay thank you and again that's a unanimous vote with this amendment so we we have a decision point at some point in the future which is not today thank you thank you I great questions done and I think that represents the beauty of what we have before us and represents the hard work that Laura secretary tyer and the county manager have been able to negotiate to to give us some protection we still have some big decisions down the road um not today today the question is do we do we begin with this and give ourselves that protection and um I hope that everyone will support it I I certainly do do we have any more uh questions or comments if not then we have a a motion on the floor to um accept the proposal as written um by David Santiago second by Danny Robbins um Don Dempsey I just wanted to comment I'm sorry I I hope yeah I'm let me just say this publicly I'm not a big fan of SunRail never have been I remember when it was being debated nearly 20 years ago and uh but this is what we've inherited and I would like to compliment George and his team because you guys have done a really good job of getting us to where we are if I could go back in time 20 years I probably would have voted no for this whole project but here we are we've walked into this and this is what we got to deal with so it is a good deal I really do appreciate all your efforts and what you've negotiated and I'm just worried that at some point we're going to get buyers remorse and it's nice to know that we have an opt out date if we choose we don't like it anymore so yeah I'm in favor of it all right thanks good thank you well said um all in favor please say I I any opposed motion carries uh 7 to zero yeah let some some seats change here Mr Brower before you move on to item four we're going to go back to item two the proclamation uh we need a vote on whether or not your care to accept the proclamation for World insulated epilated day the motion to approve by Matt Reinhardt is there a second second second by David Santiago all in favor say I I I any opposed and it's approved 7 to zero that brings us to item four valua forever acquisition priority recommendations um Dr Brad bball yes sir thank you um chair Brower and council members here today we're to present um the cycle 2 recommendations from your vucha Forever advisory Council to include adding six properties to the a list and um a recommendation to move one from the a to the b list and to take one off of the A-list at the uh request of the property owner so we have a map that's going to be be pulled up um there was a PowerPoint embedded in the um in the agenda item can you make that larger at the top for me um I'd like to go through the six properties and show you in relation um to the county and I think this is a good snapshot of our strategy of not managing Islands because it doesn't make economic sense our our strategy and in this program is buying in Holdings so stuff that we surround or expanding what we have uh as because typically when you see these corridors that's when you really get the environmental benefits so the first property that's being recommended in the top left is the new touch property um this property is 24 Acres it's adjacent to the lake George State Forest that's managed by the Florida forest service and it's had 10 of the 21 it me 10 of the 21 criteria which is the minimum threshold for a fee simple AC acquisition we've had initial discussions with the Water Management District and they're interested in partnering in the acquisition on this piece um the next one you will see uh is the Morgan Stern so the ones that we adding or or making changes to are the blue and the fuchsia is what my team tells me those both look the same to me but um the next one is the Bor piece this is a large piece um that the property of the property owner asked us to review or uh re requested that we remove from the A-list at this point in time um this doesn't mean the deal's dead we've had talks with Mr Baylor for probably the last 20 years um and they kind of go like this so um we'll continue to engage Mr Baylor because it's an attractive piece for us uh into the future uh the Morgan Stern piece is the next one that's being uh added to your A-list again this is an inh holding um of the Lake George State Forest um in that area area up there in the corner where you see Morgan Stern and new touch is about 35,000 Acres that have been conserved by three Partners us Water Management District and the state this was the first 8,000 acre large piece we bought in 1986 with our original referendum I think it's important to share that um since then because of our I think because of our management practices um this is the second highest nesting population of bald eagles in the continental United States in Lake George so um the next property down to the right at uh 3:00 is Atlantic Center for the Arts that is the one that we're recommending move from the a the the advisory committee and staff is recommending move from the a list to the b list and the next property uh a new property that came in the door is a 306 acre UB piece the UB piece is a is an important connector for us as you can see there at the bottom is Deep Creek preserve so we've got about 3,500 Acres conserved there um this would connect this parcel would connect to the Carter Quail Ranch piece which is that red piece that is currently being considered uh for purchase by our partner the Florida forever program so this is a really important piece if we were able if we were able to get the Carter piece um again we have um is adjacent to prak preserve so it's in line with our strategy to continue to expand the footprint this is right outside the valua conservation Corridor um but it it's still through that center of the county that Corridor that we're that we're trying to develop the next piece is Double Eagle so it's keep scrolling down for me there Jenna so Double Eagle you will see at the very bottom here um councilman Santiago you can see the farmton you asked to include farmton in this uh map it is the orange and light blue is that correct there and you can see the farmton local plan that's what's included here which is 47,000 Acres 32,000 of that's been conserved uh through the farmton local plan directly south of that is the Lake Harney piece that you approved at the the last time that we brought to council and adjacent to that is another piece that's come in the door as an AG Ean um for 990 Acres the double AAL I'm sorry Double Eagle Property um this was in the in the wildlife Corridor initial discussions with uh the department of a this is one that they want to move on with us in in the purchase so um this of course would be an AG easement we try to balance fee simple purchase that will come into public ownership and we will be required to manage and provide access but also um with e Pro we balance with easements to award good private stewardship of these lands next is the McMillan piece if you're going back up in a clockwise fashion this is 213 Acres adjacent to a pocket of many conservation easements as you can see there that we purchased uh with the 2000 program with the Water Management District so again the Water Management District would typically want to partner with us on on this one because it is adjacent to other things that we own together and then the last piece for your consideration today is um to add to the A-list is the TT Ranch it's 533 Acres um this is adjacent to the county owned and County jointly owned with the Water Management District and managed property of Wiregrass Prairie Preserve 1,400 acres is The Preserve if we were to acquire this property it would expand that preserve to 1900 Acres so this is the proposed aist from your advisory list I I will I do want to say that I I know that during public comment you'll have folks that will Advocate the Atlantic Center for the Arts stay on the a list rather than moving to the b list first I want to say to council uh inclusion on the a list is not a guarantee of acquisition and multiple factors uh including the Contours of the deal went into our recommendation that we brought to the committee and who endorsed and what we're bringing here today to you but um one of the things that we will continue to work with the Atlantic Center for the Arts regardless if they're on the a or b list we will continue to try to get this deal across the finish line so really once you hear the speakers today it's really a policy decision as to whether to keep it on a or move it to B you have our recommendation but either way we will continue to work uh to try to get that deal across the finish line thank you Brad uh David Santiago I have some questions thank you Mr chair can you pull the map a little bit further I guess South right there just want to make sure I understand some of the properties if I could hear um Brad yes sir um the the picket piece here 40 acres yes sir that's on this eight list correct that has already been approved and it's on the eight list yes okay um this is an inh holding of wire grass Prairie Preserve so it's completely surrounded by a preserve that we own okay good good to know um and then I heard the TT ranch right that's this blue piece here yes sir um that's being proposed to be added to the eight lists correct that is correct we have a willing seller who has proposed this site for fee simple acquisition okay these gray areas a gray and dark area that go through here this is already conservation correct that is correct that is the valua conservation Corridor um of which it's about 55,000 acres in our County of which through our efforts in 86 um and 2000 have conserved about 41,000 Acres okay um and by the way I know this representative from farmton here this is fantastic fantastic sorry go up um North please talk tell me right this F can you tell me what's going on and I don't see it here but what's going on in these areas I know I got a lot of purple out there right now but I'm going to continue to go north in the county here what's going on is there any action going on between what we already have conserved and East so the at this point in time we don't have any app appliations this is a willing seller program and so um we do not have any applications for Acquisitions in this area district is that's yours Beach okay where's the loop I'm kidding um okay I'm just interesting it's happening because uh I think you're going to see you're going to I think we're seeing and you're going to continue to see a lot of Westward Movement as it comes to more more and more uh development I think that's what's going to happen since the East is already built out um that's the only questions I have all the others thank you Mr chair thank you uh Danny Robbins thank you chair um Brad in terms of the ACA uh property yes I know everyone had made some recommendations I know there's a lot of moving Parts some stuff going on um with that would there be a downfall to keeping that on the a list for now or is there a time frame can we take it in the future um I know there were some discrepancies I just want to be fair across the board yes sir so the resolution allows council at any time to move properties from the a or b list or even acquire properties from the a or b list so this point in time moving it to the b list the council could still say we want to acquire it and that would happen so keeping on the A-list really at this point in time um would not would not uh be an adverse action I mean it's be honest with you I raised some concerns about it but I want to be diplomatic and fair and make sure this doesn't hurt maybe the applicant or the uh or the owner or the representation in any way where we can still you know I I certainly agree and uh Nancy who's the CEO of ACA has been a good partner um so we would certainly you know acques if that was council's wish Vice chair Kent thank you chairman and um Dr bball you you reminded me and I believe this Council often as to the great decision we made of approving you to the director of community services thank you for um the hard work you put in Daily now that being said councilman Santiago I thought was going somewhere where I was going to go with this which is you know sometimes I hear my council members rib me a little bit about everything's happening up in orand up in your District but I couldn't help but notice there's in in Orman Beach or I believe District 4 with these Acquisitions with Valia forever so I I know you said it has to be a a willing a willing seller um but I'm hoping we can get some love up in District 4 and acquire some uh some more properties here so we have a a 1200 acre piece that we have worked with our state Partners to acquire along the loop um it will add to the 6,000 Acres that is uh North pen buo um it's a directly south of buo so we're looking at expanding that Corridor to about 7,000 Acres with that acquisition the state is about to make an offer to the owners Dr bball you're scratching me right where I itch so the next piece is you know when when will this when will this take place so one thing and the answer tomorrow is a good answer well well I will to a truthful answer is that Acquisitions um are a winding road so I I will keep you updated um I will tell you the state is ready to move on a lot of these properties and so the if they're not getting responses from the land owners they will move on from this property but the the beauty of us bringing our properties to the state we already have a relationship with these Property Owners so and a relationship with the state so we kind of facilitate some dialogue there and also the property owners have a a local contact that can ease some of their concerns and talk them through the process that's that's good to hear and you know I can tell you and I believe that um our at large member Mr Johanson and our chairman Mr Brower would agree that maybe equally or almost as much as the beach for District 4 residents is uh important to individuals is the loop so hearing that is promising um I hope uh I hope we can follow through with it thank you Jake Johansson thank you sir um bri can you zoom out on that so you said 41,000 Acres I think are under some type of conservation and and thecia conservation Corridor so that's kind of that Corridor that runs basically here from the St John's river up to Tiger Bay got so H how much total in Valia County how much total conservation yeah all Partners Federal state local 260,000 Acres 260,000 what percentage of that is that to the the entire County hi so 266 divided by 808 my team do the M around I remember I remember a couple years ago people were touting about 33 34% 33 33% so um I guess maybe I'll ask clay later but the question I'll have for staff George is is when we're talking about conservation versus development what's what's the right percentage and and you know it can't be just a percentage I like the corridor thing but uh at at what point do we find ourselves balanced um uh and what's what's the right balance for the future um I I will if I may there is a research informed number on a percentage that's been cited before um it was an old number so let me get the update if see if there's any updates um but in terms of conservation practice and I shared this I believe with council member Santiago when we get together with practitioners from around the state kind of rule of thumb is for every acre you're developing you should be conserving an acre one for one got it yes sir all right thank you that's all I have sir Brad just a a quick question to maybe help uh Vice chair can can Troy Kent or any council member nominate a property certainly to you yes any any to find a willing buyer any member of the public may make a nomination and our team will then engage with that property donor seat if they're a willing seller okay thank you I have a comment but I'll save that for um for comments um any other questions okay um council is there does anyone have a uh motion at this point we have members of the public that want to speak and you're we can hear them first before you do I don't David Santiago I was going to make motion okay yep and I'm happy to second it's on the floor now I move to approve you need a microphone I'm doing uh don Dempsey right now one moment Mr chair I move to approve item number four with the modification to leave the Atlantic Center for the Arts property on the a list motion is to approve as uh as presented with the modification that we leave the ACA on the a list is there a second to that motion second second by Matt Reinhard and can I make com yes now we will go to uh comments debate yeah Mr chair and the reason I did that modification based on Brad's um comment it there's no harm in leaving it on the a staff or or B so since it's already on the a let them continue on the A and let staff continue to do the work that they have so we uh I don't think there's a need based on the comments to make any changes that's the reason why I made the modification thank you Mr chair yep okay let's hear from the public because that might lessen your uh your talking points uh Pat northy would you mind going first it's good to see you in here today it's always good to be um I actually like the motion very much so that what I going to say is please leave the ACA on the a list I do want to say as chair of your Echo committee which we will be here I think next next meeting to have the same kind of presentation your staff does phenomenal work they are always on top of things this one I'm is I think it's a difference of opinion but this is a important project so please leave this on the a list as council member Santiago's motion speaks to that's it thank you thank you Glenn Storch thank you uh for the record my name is Glenn Storch and I I represent the ACA but I've also had the pleasure of knowing Doris leaper because I'm old enough to do that uh for years and she was passionate about Spruce Creek and Spruce Creek preserve area everything else this piece that's in the ACA right now was always supposed to be part of that Spruce Creek uh area and so when the uh staff approached ACA about buying this they worked out the deal they they were uh they had the appraisals they actually and this is what I'm concerned about when it says a second uh property uh is recommended for removal from uh from group a to Group B due to the inability to reach an agreement on the deal terms at this time that doesn't make any sense to me because not only was there a deal reached there was an offer made in writing by volia County with all the deal terms it was signed uh this was their last offer final offer it was signed uh by the ACA and then a contract was created uh to get to uh you to review this so there's obviously a misunderstanding here uh and it's a misunderstanding I can't have happen if we're going to have the potential of losing a piece of property that should be in the dors Leeper uh preserve so if it's a matter of coming back and talking about what the issues might be fine but our understanding because we had never heard there was a problem uh that they wanted to reduce the price or anything else or that we didn't meet the terms because like I say everything we had in writing indicated that we had met those terms and we' agreed to those terms so we thought we were fat dumb and happy happy but I I apologize bottom line is we'll work together with you how's that and because it's so important to get this piece under public ownership now let me tell you one more thing that's good um that map you showed with Forton on it we're getting ready to add another 3700 acres in conservation uh very quickly probably within the next 90 days so and it's the northern section so it's going right up where you're talking about David so I thought You' appreciate that as well uh and that will continue to to uh go as we work on creating these habitat corridors um any questions all right thank can you add Troy's property to that list uh I no Nancy Lowden [Music] Norman thank you so much Nancy Lon Norman executive director at Atlantic Center for the Arts although Brad I appreciate the the um promotion to CEO um Brad Tim and I have worked on um the acquisition of this property for a long time and I appreciate their help on this um this is just a part of my file if that gives you an idea um and I appreciate um very much her pledge to continue to work with us um to have this property be put into the J sleeper Spruce Creek brazer um as you know Dar Leeper was the founder of Atlantic Center for the Arts if it wasn't for Dar Leeper canaval National Seashore would be filled with strings of hotels and condos if it wasn't for Daris Leeper the property where Atlantic Center for the Arts sits um would have um not been able to block encroachment from Port Orange it probably would have been another Golf Course community and we have an amazing 69 Acres that are environmentally important and as you all know um add an important part to the door sleepers Spruce Creek preserve to be able to provide access to our community members so um thank you so much for your support of this appreciate it greatly thank you John Nicholson you're add a turn John Nicholson they to to beach side uh thank you Mr Santiago and Mr Kent uh my passion is basically uh Daytona Beach needs to be represented uh I would ask you when was the last time a property was acquired uh with these funds from the city of Daytona Beach okay do you realize that city of Daytona Beach has contribute contributed the most amount of funding for this program we the number one funding organization all right secondly we have the least amount of property acquired from this or from the program before it there's only been one property from Florida forever and Valia forever from Daytona Beach Museum of Arts and Sciences that property facing Nova Road that's it $750,000 and we've contributed what 100 million or so we are not getting it and I understand your idea of willing seller I understand that completely but it doesn't take much for staff to look at property that would be of value in the city of Daytona Beach and then asked them do you want to sell there was a fantastic property for sale on the river and I asked our manager oh no no we want that for development but we had an opportunity to get property on the river 40 acres at an extremely low price and we didn't all the county had to do was ask all right so I'm asking you one absolutely acquire the uh Atlantic City um the Arts Center all right it's needed we want to keep things of that nature uh for future Generations secondly you have a gentleman here uh who I happen to like a lot because every time he comes to the city commission he acquires more open space for the city of Daytona Beach I think he's acquired so far 30 40,000 acres for free for the county and for the city all right every time Glenn comes in here's another th000 Acres here's 6,000 Acres here's 2,000 acres that's what we need the development when they want to develop these large areas something has to be given back to the county we shouldn't always have to buy they're making tons of money give us a little uh payback for the money that we're generating for for you uh and Pat Nory I'd love you to death but a million dollars a year for the trails the Tona beach has gotten zero money out of echo forever so when we look at these things sometimes a little balance a little fair play doesn't hurt thank you thank you uh that concludes public comments on item four is there uh comments from the Council I'll just add a a quick comment that I'm I'm pleased with the with the motion um I'm pleased with keeping the ACA on it hope that that will be worked out it sounds like it should be able to be worked out um uh quickly um uh just to go to some of the points that were made um anybody can nominate a property and let it be vetted um it does require a willing seller and then the question of how much and in my mind it's really not a question of percentage what percentage of land should we preserve what percentage of land should we develop we've got enough preserve let's develop to rest the real question for me is um get in an airplane fly over Valia County and look down and what you see is mostly water with some land in between um so the the question is the uh the status of that land and how it contributes to our quality of life not a set percentage of of what is right what's what's right is is what is happening with that land what it's there for to do is it a productive Wetland is it a something that's needed for the Wildlife Preserve so I'm really pleased with the direction that we're going and and the work that um you all are doing in valua forever and the and the uh valua coridor so thank you for your hard work looking at the the staff down there in the front row uh Troy Kent thank you chairman just briefly I'll just state that uh John if you're amendable to it I I will coordinate a meeting with Dr bbau yourself and myself and we can talk about um some possible locations in Orman Beach Daytona Beach and Holly Hill is that something okay Dr bbubble set that up thank you if it's okay with Mr has to go through him uh if there's no other comments the motion on the floor is to approve with the modification of leaving the ACA on a motion by David Santiago second by Matt Reinhardt all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero thank you that brings us to item five uh a draft ordinance limiting comments to verbal comments during the general comment period uh attorney Russ Brown good afternoon Mr chair members of council Russ Brown Deputy County attorney on November 7th 2023 Council directed staff to bring an agenda item back to council to review the policy for the use of electronic media the electronic media is defined as video picture audio recording or any other electronic media in your current ordinance so the uh review the policy for the use of electronic media during public comments uh attached to the agenda item is a draft ordinance that would limit comments during the general comment period only to public to verbal comments so we're only talking about the bookends of each side of the agenda not the participation during an agenda item if Council votes to move forward with the changes to the ordinance the change will be advertised and brought back to council at a l later date I'm here to answer any questions and seek your direction David Santiago thank you Mr chairman uh Russ does this ordinance prevent anyone from communicating or sending any type of media to any of the council members uh no sir they could email you or however other media can be delivered to you dropped off or whatever no sir gotcha um and again just for clarity purposes um this would only pertain in the first when we open the meetings When anybody can speak about any topic or at the end of the meetings when we also have the public participation someone who's on an agenda item that submits something can still display their media is that correct that's correct yes sir cuz um so the first so the you know you there's a memo and your rules when they first were implemented then we went back over them about a year ago talked about the case law where you can do reasonable time place and manner um restrictions and the assuring an efficient meeting is run and so uh there so in case law you could further limit it however in Florida there's a state statute that's on point and Florida statute I think it's 286 Point 014 I think it's subsection 4 I may have that subsection wrong but that for agenda item there's only certain things that the legislature allows you to do mostly it's procedurally for like rules so we don't think because there's some language in there that uh you could limit the participant for an agenda item's ability to show you things that they would like to show you in media thank you and you know you just brought up another question for me in are you aware or not uh in the legislature you the legislature does the legislature allow anyone to put up any media items in any of the public hearings I've actually never been to a legislature I've been to a federal I've never seen it in the I've been to several been in I know you have some I've been to the US Congress I've seen some of those I haven't seen much unless it's a speaker that was called and maybe they're showing something but I haven't seen a comment or show anything at the federal level thank you Russ Mr chair if if you'd like because I know this was one of the items that I brought forward at the council I can kind of unless there's other questions I kind of share my thoughts and Council goes where it decides do anyone have else have questions for Staff first no go ahead I oh thank you Mr chair I think this this kind of sort of came up and surfaced its head and I don't remember the exact date but after one of our hearings a few months ago when something was being presented or we had some Challenge and I apologize for not pinpointing exactly but that's what brought it to light and um we had the brief discussion here as a council and brought it up and it's more for uh if you want to call it a a proactive approach uh in today's uh interesting world to not give a platform for something that may or may not be inappro appropriate right um I don't see this as a um shutting down the public in any way people can still speak about whatever agenda item or excuse me or any item um before the council they can still communicate to us send us their digital media cuz the purpose of of the Forum unless I'm wrong is for them to appeal to us or share their grievance or ideas to the council to make public decisions in the sunshine um the purpose of that that Podium is not to give someone a platform to air whatever they want um they can certainly speak what they want but I'm concerned the reason I brought it up again I'm concerned that there's going to be a time if we don't have some checks and balances around this that someone's going to air something that is totally inappropriate um that shouldn't be and and and if we provide them a platform for it um then we'll be scrambling so I think we we were around the margins of it recently very close didn't quite penetrated but um be a little bit forward thinking um and as Mr Russ and I asked him in in our other hierarchy of office Holdings there is no giving someone a platform to to display whatever media they so choose if it's an agenda item remember they can still come and present and submit under our rules and procedures and that'll be televised so I'm just concerned with just giving a free reign for anything to be displayed to the public and we're giving them a platform that's the reason for the proposal but it's I don't think it's taking away anybody's right to speak or to appeal to their public uh to their elected officials thank you Mr chair Jake Johansson I have a quick question for Russ uh probably um and after what Mr Santiago said it brings to my attention what came up before but would it a gentleman spoke about the flooding that apparently the the city manager or the county manager and staff are taking care of at least looking at and I think think to deny him the ability to show a few video or few a few pictures or a few drawings of what he's talking about would be important to me because it's action uh County takes however I am concerned about the platform so Russ is is there any way we can limit and this has happened even verbally uh public comment at the beginning to things that our County Council or staff can take action on like um um um ending the war in Ukraine we we really can't take action on that is it important you bet it is um uh but can can we and should we could we limit those discussions you you're currently in the current meeting rules ordinance that prior Council adopted you do have a requirement that during that general public time at the beginning of the meeting end of the meeting that while you can speak on items not on the agenda but they need to be on matters that may warrant action by the county and I've seen in different meeting rules ordinances that phrase differently they all mean the same thing something that would be relevant to County Business got it so I that may mitigate some of our concerns and and not uh and not encroach encroach on people's uh uh ability to um to voice their thoughts on things that that come to us and and with the stipulation that they have 24 hours advanced notice so uh Carissa can get the stuff and uh make sure it's it's okay media and that um uh the county uh County manager and the and the County Attorney can take a look at it make sure it's actionable and and if it's not bring it to our attention and and we can vote on it right here saying you've all seen it do you do you want to hear it or not um and bottom line folks for me three minutes is three minutes I'm I'm going to probably be happy or not happy if it's something beyond my uh and and we've sat and listened at three minutes of stuff that's beyond our control before uh in verbal comment as well so um um I'm going to I'm going to on the side of of caution however not not U not interrupt the people's ability to speak for three minutes just keep on hammering home that it's got to be an actionable item and and review the the stuff so uh that's all I have chairman thank Mr chair and just to clarify that 24-hour rule came into place is really just do a virus check uh so well I I maybe maybe we can then add that anything that's that's going to be put other than verbal uh be provided to the County council members prior to the meeting so we can review it and and express our Our concern to you if it's not actionable Matt Reinhardt thank you chair before I ask my question I got to go back to Mr Johansson so my understanding then it's sent to us prior before we make a decision during the council whether or not to allow them to show it I I would say we would opine whether it is actionable or not there's a lot of stuff I don't see but it's important that we uh if we're ever going to take action on it uh that that we need to see it and I think this other go ahead R Us I'm sorry Mr I was just going to say from so you always Mr Johansson and and members of council have the ability as a point of order if somebody's before you and you don't think it's a matter that's likely to come before you as an agenda item or an action item for you you can have a point of order at that at that point and say you know point of order this is not a matter like come before the council I would like to you know this is not a a public comment right there's no reason to hear it at this time something like that I understand I'd like to have it in the orders or in our rules so we don't have to have that discussion right then and there and and try to stop somebody from speaking for three minutes yes sir okay and I'm just trying to say that on your agenda now it says it's you know like we talked about it's supposed to be or you're likely to come before you so you have that in your rules now you could have a point of order that it's not matter before this yeah can I make a point of clarification I know Matt Flo if I may Mr chair Qui yes I I I just don't want us to go off the rails a little bit here because Jake I get your my point the proposal before us addresses nothing to someone anything someone says verbally they still have their right to appeal to their government this ordinance correct me if I'm wrong doesn't say they can't speak about any topic for the most part that's not what we're doing here today we're only specifically speaking about the TV um whether or not we want to give during those two particular times of the meeting someone the capability to broadcast whatever they want to the media that's all this proposal does it doesn't prevent anybody's speech am I correct you're correct sir and my and so my problem is I I don't I don't want somebody like the gentleman who came today to not be able to show a a diagram or two to to visually show his point but he can do that ahead of time Jake he can email all of us yeah yeah so so and and the problem is when he emails all of us the public doesn't get to see what he's talking about too and this is kind of that's that's where I was going a a public venue so that and that's that's my only problem now now the the theater that you're talking about the the that that grand stand that they're looking for if it's not actionable I think we can prevent it by looking at it and and and talking through the attorney and have the chairman at the beginning say so and so who sent this we are we are not going to show that I I I think that's the compromise but but I'm I'm with you on on the concern I get it I but I think the compromise takes us to Future problems sorry Mr chair I know we we're having some good dialogue here so um I'll hear with a couple of my my colleagues have to say and then I have a motion Mr chair okay Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um and I guess that's what I was going about actionable item that's why I was ask for the free to repeat that Jake thank you and I don't know if the can reflect that an actionable item I I get the guy that that comes up and wants to talk about things that are completely beyond our control um I'm a visual guy pictures speak a thousand words I don't I I guess I don't really have any issue with them showing me a diagram of his flooding and uh that's something we can talk as a council about I guess that's that's the way I'm looking at it so um just so you know where I stand thank you okay well motion your name was on you took it off me one of these so okay just um well let me hear your motion Mr chairman thank you I move to permanently table item number five I'll second it okay it's nothing to fall on a sword on folks it a discussion so I hear with the council Santiago moves to table permanently item number five second by Don Dempsey um any questions about that any debate all in favor to permanently table item five please say I I I any opposed okay I don't get to make my brilliant speech get that rush and the public wanted to speak I'm sorry we'll let you speak do you still want to speak don't give John Nicholson the chance oh too late okay one is good okay John Nicholson still wants to speak yeah Connie Colby are you still here did you care to speak Connie still okay John Nicholson John Nicholson to Tony beach side um that last thing floored me uh I've been coming to a couple of your meetings 40 years worth all right I was here when Dwight Lewis had us come at 8:00 in the morning when the meeting started at 9:00 and I came one time at 8 there were two ladies before me and I didn't get a chance to speak those three minutes kind of extended itself to half an hour so I had to wait another nine hours to speak wasn't happy about it I'm glad you've changed it but now what I've seen over the years is somebody holding up a sign with their phone number on it when they're running for office or their um what do they call it website or whatever so they could get funding so if you want to support me send money here I think those are inappropriate at a meeting all right there are all kinds of things that they hold up and when you stop this you also allow them to do anything they want and there's things that not appropriate when you're running for office this is not the place to run for office the idea of making a comment then saying I'm running for district 4 I don't mind that but to sit here and go for votes rather than something that pertains to all of the county I know I speak an awful lot and if anybody's going to be offended it's going to be me and I'm not all right so if you put limits on things that are non-verbal like photos or signs or whatever I'm happy with that they can say whatever they want but what they can project is something that I think you have to look at thank you thank you and that concludes item five item six is a discussion on implementation of Milestone inspection fee and compliance process for aging Condominiums and Cooperative buildings good afternoon CLA and director of growth and Resource Management uh state law has put in place requirements for uh buildings three stories or greater that are owned in a condominium or cooperative situation uh the critical thing is the age of the structure based on the issuance of the initial Co uh this is in um reaction to the Surfside accident that occurred several years ago so the question is whether or not to do these or not is not here we have to do these the question today is whether or not you feel it's important enough for us to impose a fine or excuse me a fee for staff's time in conducting the research and following through and implementing the state law uh staff is aware that um you know we have multiple properties uh well over 50 with Condominiums which of which we have 80 plus structures that are subject to this rule um many have started coming into compliance uh we want to make sure that we're prepared because we do have to send out notices this June in order for to comply by the December 31st 2024 deadline so we see um that it will require staff time to document uh manage and oversee uh the inspection process uh we do not have to conduct the actual inspections the actual inspections are conducted by the Condominiums who hire a design professional licensed to conduct that inspection we will just simply follow up to ensure that the Condominium Association if it passes phase one nothing more is done they just need reinspect in 10 years if however uh there is a potential issue they have to follow up we have to make sure that they're doing so uh staff has made a recommendation of approximately $250 for the uh the permit the inspection fee so that that way it covers our staff time and cost questions for staff Matt Reinhardt thank you chair so the $250 fee clay I think I had asked this during the agenda update that's a a feed that's General along most coastal areas or most areas that charge that this type of structure yes sir we included that uh some research we did as you can see it's it's kind of ranging we're we're in line with other counties and I guess due to the extent of the inspection because of what happened down south obviously MH uh not to say that the other inspections aren't thorough that in light of these recent events you you really have to take that into consideration so thank you Jake Johansson there's no more question sir uh like to make a motion to approve uh the staff's recommendation at $250 for Milestone inspections and uh the uh follow on um uh enforcement of fines uh based on their research is there a second second second by Matt Reinhardt motion was by Jake Johansson discussion debate no questions all in favor of the $250 fee say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero a point of clarification real quick sir because also included was a discussion of a fine if they are not in compliance and we were going to be applying the $250 a day as a fine as well think would the motion was as presented that that's correct all right just want to make sure thank you okay item s Direction on possible repeal of chapter 78-1 waiting period and records check for purchase of firearms um Russ Brown is back good evening Mr chair members of council Russ Brown Deputy County attorney as previously directed by Council before you for Direction as a draft ordinance repealing chapter 78-1 waiting period and Records checks for purchase of firearms as stated in the ordinance in November 1998 the voters of the State of Florida passed an amendment to the Constitution art in article 8 section five the amendment allowed local governments to EST establish a 3 to 5 day waiting period for the sell of firearms at any place to which the public has access the amendment also allowed each County to require a criminal history records check in connection with the sell of any firearm occurring in the county in 1999 the county adopted ordinance 78-1 which set the waiting period of three days and a criminal history background check for the purchase of handguns if Council wishes to proceed with the ordinance uh we'll take the direction and bring it back to you um with that ordinance repeal and I'm here to answer any questions you may have along with Mr Chris Ryan who did the majority of the work but lost his voice today so I'm his I'm his a voice box that's what happened uh Danny Robbins thank you chair uh chairman if there's no other questions I don't have any questions myself I'd like to make the motion repe repeal immediately uh 78-1 waiting period for gun sales on public property and strike it from the flusa county code of ordinances is there a second second second by Don Dempsey to uh eliminate the waiting period uh Jake Johansson I do have just a few questions to clarify um why why would it be different for a licensed uh licensed Firearms dealer to have to go three days but a a uh a gun show or personal sale not not go three days well uh federal firearms license for example you have to follow the license requirements which I believe requires them at all times to do a background check as opposed to this was known as colloquially the uh Gun Show loophole yeah and so um trying to so that's why the ordinance was created because a private individual could go into a private buyer at a at a gun show and buy a a weapon without a a background check got it yeah so has the FED made efforts to get rid of the 3day I I I know that occasionally gets discussed but I um I think I think it came up as recently as uh last year or the I think it came up as recently as last year um but it didn't it hasn't passed and so why do do you know Russ why we have that the three-day weight period so there's a a background check is is conducted where on lands where the public has access so for is it so is it the is it the is it the time it takes to do the the look or is it uh like a cooling off period for Hot Heads and people that just want a gun now to do something stupid I'm I I suppose it could my I thought it was primarily for the background but I suppose it has both applications it could also potentially cool off period but I always thought it was for the background all right all right um that that's you question I have I'll wait for a comment from Danny Danny Robins are we in debate sir I don't any more question was there any more questions for staff no questions for me okay yes thank you chair uh Council thank you for allowing me to bring this in front of you guys today thank you staff for for doing some of the leg work here uh folks there's a notion out there that if we can uh just B guns or throw restrictive intrusive roadblocks up that uh all the violence uh would end uh I believe uh in my heart that that couldn't be further from the truth if you research some of these over restrictive or overreach policies the evidence will show you'll be indisputable uh these policies existed in Paris where poor folks uh were shot by a certain type of rifle which were banned and purchase jurisdictions were in place those also same policies in gun-free zones uh and and uh reaching policies like this where Place uh where Virginia Tech happened Coline Sandy Hook Aurora Parkland every instance and I mean every instance where the most innocent lives have been taken there has been these restrictions now compare that to the NRA convention or any national gun show or opening day of deer season in Florida where you have 100% of gun ownership and access and miraculously no one gets hurt Council the fact of the matter is that guns don't kill people bad people sick people evil people kill people as we see every day in places like California Illinois New York Maryland and the list goes on but it happens every day has nothing to do with the firearm in my opinion a public or private sale your party affiliation whatever repealing this policy has everything to do with good versus evil and forcing free people to wait forcing them into a state of unarmed helplessness the very existence of the Second Amendment is designed purposely to empower the people to be able to defend themselves to include resist the force of tyranny used against them when someone to include the government steps over their natural rights given to them by God in my opinion that is why the Second Amendment exists to be that equalizer and to give our people access to firearms on their terms and not the governments this debate is irrefutable conclusion if you are forced into unarmed helplessness you are unarmed and helpless what a horrible irresponsible suicidal condition to live in we need not only something to say but the most important part is to have the ability to do something and this ordinance in my opinion restricts that and with that being said I have to ask the question why would we keep it but in closing and I'll get philosophical um I'll leave you with these four special words that are woven into the very fabric of everything that we do and that we know about as Americans and I'll just say shall not be infringed thank you Jake Johansson counterargument in the research done by Harvard Business School Luca malor and poin in 22 indicated that uh waiting period laws can in some cases uh delay uh gun homicides and suicides by rough 177% now I can't verify those numbers but my my thought is is that a 3-day waiting period does not deny a person uh a firearm it delays a person a firearm and regarding uh sending somebody home uh helpless uh and and that it becomes suicidal is a little Troublesome to me because if if I feel that my life is in danger um I'm not going to pick up the phone and find out where the nearest gun show is um uh if I'm I'm if I'm in that much duress uh I'm going to go to my buddy's house and ask him for his weapon um which is legal to do uh if I'm IND duress I'm going to call the police now granted there's times where people have called the police the police have said there's nothing we can do and that person get shot um but but there's a good chance that happened on a weekday and there's no gun show available uh there's no private person that can sell them a gun uh they might have a friend that can sell them a gun but apparently that's that's legal within within the uh um the privacy of a household so I I kind I'm I struggle with this because I want the free freedom of people to do what they want but I also know nefarious actors um uh take advantage and um occasionally buy weapons because they know they're not going to get checked um so I'm I'm torn on this for those reasons um for for every piece of research on both sides I looked at the n's research and I looked at um some of the um academic research and uh some have said the Brady act has done good some have said it's made no difference um and so I'm I'm kind of in the in the i' like to wait mode right now unless somebody convince me otherwise Matt Reinhardt thank you chair for forgive my ignorance here just a quick question and and it's a little off topic but I'll get to it um our current new law that went into effect with respect to concealed weapons and I'm I know we're getting off topic a little bit um if you already had if you had a concealed weapons permit that allows you to do what even though you're allowed to carry concealed in the State of Florida without a without a permit does that allow you to buy the weapon yes you can walk into a store and buy so the background check has been done that's part of the concealed weapons permit correct and I do carry one even though Florida statute back in the day allowed me to and law enforcement allowed you to and law enforcement to carry weapon I still elected to carry the concealed weapons permit for that purpose and and I still will so I can go out and purchase that weapon in other words I don't have to wait the three days wherever I go because I have a conceal weapons permit okay so that's I'm going I am going somewhere with that so and yet I struggle too as well uh Mr Johansson uh with respect to that and uh it's hard for me because I don't I don't have that limit on me I I can go out right now and buy it so um but I'm I'm curious to hear a little more from I see Mr robbins's put his name I'm curious to hear a little bit more thank you Denny Robins thank you chair and guys I I look at all sides of this but something that I found out uh first off as a police officer uh and studying FBI uh the UCR the crime reports comstat reports the F uh FDLE reports that they sent out in in living that lifestyle and seeing it on the street in the most violent city probably definitely in in in vucha County Daytona Beach um but also probably next to I'd say Orlando or Miami when it comes to violent crime uh if you study that and and under try to understand if somebody is going to do an act it's no different than a speeding sign if somebody wants to speed they're going to speed if somebody is going to commit this heinous crime you see it all over they'll do a if you look at at the the crime reports cars are we going to put a three-day waiting period on cars there's a lot more deaths by cars suicides there's a lot more deaths by butter knives hammers screwdrivers steak knives so there there comes a point in time where we have to look at realistically why this is in place is it worth punishing the 99.99999 in infinite pop portion of our population for one or two Knuckleheads that are evil in society do we want to continue this uh in my opinion overreaching policy to the overwhelming majority of our society uh here in in vucha County my answer is is no um it should not be in my opinion up to the government uh to to to Really regulate that we have red flag laws now to answer Mr Johansson's um questions and concerns where if there is a uh issue that arises the first thing people have to do is recognize uh or report the issue if you look at all these uh other instances the red flags were there people failed to say something in some cases they called the police department or the FBI 42 times Aurora Paris and all these other places they they've notified it but the lack of of of action um uh hurt that but we have the red flag laws our Sheriff's Department uh does concealed weapons courses training courses uh and and whatnot we have better mental health programs uh and really what this comes down to when is enough enough when is enough enough and uh I want our people to be armed in vucha County um I believe it is like I said for an equalizer and that levels the playing field when Joe Schmo is able to uh make a threat or encounters you or your family with that uh with that uh threat of violence for you be able to act accordingly without government involved uh this is a uh this is not a new issue it's a strong issue but I think we have enough things in place now to justify straight repeal on this ordinance Don Dempsey yeah I I agree with Danny 100% I just uh you know Jeff you gave us each a copy of the Constitution and Danny hit it right on the head when he said shall not be infringed I mean in not banned not infringed interfered with in any way I mean using this kind of logic you're saying well okay we don't like drugs all drugs should be illegal so let's make drugs illegal and you'll never be able to get drugs again well we know how that War on Drugs came out 40 years ago even though it's a felony to have certain types of drugs I could being in my business I could probably make a couple phone calls right now and have us all a bunch of drugs here in a few minutes so just because something's illegal doesn't mean the bad guys can't get their hands on it we got laws against drugs but you can still get drugs we're going to have laws against bad guys getting guns the same well guess what I see they can get guns whether have the cool off period or not they're going to get the guns so all we're doing now is punishing law abiding citizens from their ability to get a gun quickly because the bad guys are going to get the guns quickly or already have them so they're not afraid of this cool off period if they want to get a gun and do something bad with it they're going to do it so yeah I don't I don't want to create any more restrictions on people's gun rights than we already have through the state and the FEDS so I I think the County's kind of overstepping its bounds by imposing more restrictions on people that we really shouldn't be doing so I'm with I'm with Danny thanks just just to clarify that I'm going to lose my voice too the county didn't do that a previous County council did restricted them so I don't I don't want that blamed on on those people too but um I brought that copy of the Constitution because for me it's it's very simply a constitutional issue I have I can have lots of thoughts about it but it's I I say frequently that our highest responsibility is to protect our god-given constitutionally protected rights and when you read um the Second Amendment it doesn't leave any wiggle room the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed for 200 years we've been infringing we've added law after law and it is time that that we um stop and have um protect that right um then if you look at um article six at Clause two I think this is important it says the Constitution and the laws of United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof in pursuance thereof of the Constitution not of anything else but the laws have to be made that align with the Constitution and all treaties made um under the authority of the United States shall be the supreme law of the land and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby anything in the Constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding the law of the State of Florida does not require us to do this it gives us an option to infringe which um I believe is against the uh it's the against the Constitution and then in article three lastly it says the the judicial power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court the judicial power shall extend in all cases to law and equity and it goes on to describe different laws but then it says in all other cases before mentioned the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction both as to law and fact Don correct me if I'm wrong appell at jurisdiction means that lower Court can appeal to the Supreme Court and then they have their job is not to interpret the Constitution nowhere in this constitution does it give the the Supreme Court um the U the order to interpret what's clearly written here they have to judge the law by the law the Constitution and the facts presented to them so for me um Danny this is going to surprise you I I agree that this gives us an opportunity to to roll back some infringements that were clearly prohibited by the Constitution do we have a responsibility to the public yeah we do is there any laws that prohibit um yeah there are there's hundreds of them but like you said Don they're not the bad guys aren't listening to that they have guns um so I think it's more important I think our chief respons abbility is to keep our Fidelity to this document and roll roll this back um any other comments we have one member of the public who would like to um disagree with me Dana Mol damn it cool I reside in District 5 believe that I talked to most of you up here this morning regarding this and I want to tell you this on um January 24th of 1981 uh wiel Wilson walked into a shop purchased a gun without a waiting period and the next morning committed suicide with said gun the fact that my mother committed suicide left an impression on me throughout my life she did it with a handgun cuz there was no Co ping off period now that's personal and I'm going to put I over e right now since we're all speaking Constitution I haven't heard horrible things about when people don't get guns but I've heard horrible things about when people do get guns this waiting period was designed because back when we did this amendment there were no F there were no red flag laws in the 17 and 1800s we didn't have the capacity of of Machinery that we do today we didn't have that we couldn't speak to that we couldn't speak to domestic violence back then or they didn't speak they didn't speak about mental illness back then when we were constructing this and I believe that the founding fathers wrote this in a way that the forwarding fathers could interpret to what our society needed I'm asking us not to be victims of hyper originalist approach I believe that the Second Amendment is sacred I believe in carrying guns I believe in responsible gun ownership but what I don't believe is taking this measure away because sometimes people do not protect themselves in our society and as legislators we are tasked with that for the members of our public infringement means to break the terms of or try to undermine and I don't believe that anyone that is in favor of waiting on this period to do proper background checks or for a cooling off time wants to undermine the spirit of 2A no one wants to but you must admit that we live in different times today the Second Amendment never guaranteed instant delivery of guns back then they had problems at the port with getting their hands on guns this was written so that we had guns but with that and as we advance we also have circumstances in today's societies that must be addressed by people that are put into powers of position and that is you for us there was no way to understand when they were forming a new country that these things would appear in our society today I'm as liberal Democrat as you can possibly get but I'm a staunch gun advocate but I'm also about protecting those that can't PR protect themselves and I want you to remember this last thing I haven't heard horrible things about people when they don't get guns but I've heard horrible things about when people do please keep this in mind when you pass this it's a F Bastion of safety for those that can't protect themselves thank you thank you uh any other comments from the council we have a a motion on the floor to appeal the waiting period and records check for purchase of firearms um at publicly accessible uh buildings motion is by Danny Robbins second was by Don Dempsey all in favor say I chairman chairman yes sir I'm sorry I I want to speak okay go ahead thank you um I appreciate uh Mr Robbins bringing this up and uh anybody that's spoken on it from the deis and I I just publicly want to thank uh Miss McCool um a brutal story brutal and uh tough for any family member or kid to deal with it's a a lot of guts to come here and do that thanks thank you um well said all in favor of the motion say I I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero item eight Direction on dissolving the code enforcement board and replacing it with a special magistrate clay Irvin Good afternoon clay irvan director growth and Resource Management also Christopher Ryan who did large amount of the work on this uh unfortunately he also has having difficulty speaking today um this is following up on the directive that the council provided to us uh Council identified a concern with uh some of the uh issues with the code enforcement board in regards to maintaining membership uh Mr Dyer has referenced some uh other court cases where we're dealing with u making sure we can meet the recommended membership so uh Florida Statutes 16203 provides Clarity that a local government May Implement code enforcement through a code enforcement board or through special magistrate this uh draft ordinance in front of you does that um if this is the direction the council seeks then staff will take that ordinance and uh work it through there are some um administrative procedures that need to be cleaned up but we could be able to get this back to you uh second meeting in April first meeting in May thank you questions for Mr Irvin no questions but the motion to approve Mr chair second Johansson okay uh David Sant Santiago makes a motion to approve um going to a special magistrate and the second was by Jake Johansson and for um comment debate Matt Reinhardt uh just comment thank you chair I I've been participant of both you know i' I said this before I served on the code enforcement board for the city of Daytona I work code enforcement for the city of N samna and I can tell you uh firsthand at least from that perspective I I totally get uh individuals wanting to have uh the uh citizen participation in a code enforcement board I totally understand that and respect it I was on that however in both cases I've seen it move much quicker and much more efficient when you have a uh special magistrate in play uh I will tell you that difficult cases we always avoid it and we sent it to a magistrate I know that Mr Ron you can attest to that as well so I I understand so that being said um I'm in favor of this so uh Mr Santiago kind of beat me to the punch on the motion so thank you chair uh don Dempsey guys I'm 100% against this um I've been practicing law for 34 years and I can honestly tell you every day when I go to work I thank God for a jury system because a lot of times you get Rogue judges Matt you're a reasonable person Jake you're a reasonable person but I've and Troy I don't know if you were on the code enforcement board ever but I I'm telling you 34 years of dealing with good judges versus bad judges is like night and day and my biggest fear is we get a rogue special magistrate because I've dealt with Rogue judges and Rogue um hearing officers magistrate it's dangerous there's a reason why we have nine people on the US Supreme Court not one there's a reason why there's seven of us up here instead of one when you have one person making all the decisions they're a king and that's what I'm afraid of we have seven people on the Florida Supreme Court we've got 12 people if somebody from the county tries to take your land they want to take a foot of your property you're entitled to 12 people on that jury before they take your property there's a reason why there's safety in the multitude of council there's a reason why our decisions I believe are better for the community when it's debated among seven people I mean I don't know how these people I'm sure John would be scared to death if this whole County was left to be run by me alone you know so imagine any single one of us up here alone without being balanced out by six other voters yes I know it's more efficient I know it's faster but it's way more dangerous we're affecting people's property rights we hear people all the time coming in here talking about how they can't deal with the county we got problems with permitting we all code violations that we think are nonsense we need the multitude of council I don't care how difficult it is to get a full uh enforcement board but we need to keep it at all costs because I'm telling you healthy debate is the best thing for our US Supreme Court which is the law of the land the Florida Supreme Court which is the law of our state I mean the House of Representatives it's not one person the Senate's 100 people I mean we need debate you need debate on Code Enforcement I'd like to see jury nullification come back where if if we could enforce or enable the the code enforcement board you know what I'm talking about because he's smiling if the code enforcement board had a chance to say this is a ridiculous code I don't even think this should be enforced this is too harsh on this applicant or this person this property owner and they should be able to just just say you know what this just doesn't make sense it's not fair in this scenario let's get rid of it I I mean that's where we should be headed not towards voting a king of the county to make all the decisions about people's use of their property so I'm really against this guys and I hope I can convince you otherwise thanks Danny Robbins thank you chair and Don you're hitting the nail on a lot of heads um County attorney um what is the process or clay what is the process for appeal if it goes to uh the magistrate will it come back before us no the so the appeal process of a code enforcement board decision whether it's your citizen Advisory board or your special magistrate will remain the same uh they file an appeal to Circuit Court is how the statute provides so the the process if you do go to a special m magistrate um you know I realize there's a policy issue to be discussed here Mr Dempsey just outlined one of the viewpoints uh the process itself for enforcing it and appealing it Remains the Same question is who makes that decision and with that with that being said I think the closer we can keep this to home in a group of people based on what you're saying and and it makes sense I I thought I was for this at first but I can see the I can see the the importance of our people that are intimate with Belia County that are intimate maybe with the scenario to be able to Trump that or shoot some of this nonsense down at our level so I'm going to vote and support you done David Santiago got some good debate going on here this this Tuesday wow it's it's good I like it you um we're 19 minutes oh no I said we're going to get out of here :15 so I got to talk for a little bit um uh you know I made the motion um I've had some experience with this never been a special magistrate but a local government where we did transition from a quote enforcement board to a special magistrate and and it it ran well it still runs that way today um I I don't see this as adopting a king because the you know the King has the last say right so that's not the case with the special magistrate so I I wouldn't necessarily brandom that title because this people still have recourse to appeal um I've actually seen the contrary I've seen special magistrates in my experience in the past be more lenient to the homeowner and give them opportunity after opportunity to resolve whatever issue might be pending before them so um I I I don't I don't I could live with both to be quite honest with you Don this is not a major topic for me um but I think we've struggled with keeping people in there um I've seen special magistrates work fine and more towards the consumer side that's just personal speaking and they're not a king um I'll just ask a question make sure I'm not misspeaking Mike if if the ordinance that would be coming before us could come back written in a fashion that any ruling of the special magistrate can be appealed to this Council then they have a body of seven to make the final determination that's that uh Mr chair that's not permitted by the statute the statute the appeal specifically directs the statute specifically directs any appeals um of the decision to go to Circuit Court which you can do is you have control over the magistrate themselves well that's correct I was going to say that next unint they for us yes yes they work for they work for us yeah the magistrate oh I was going to I should have said that before I asked you the question the magistrate works for the County Council um if we find a heavy-handed or whatever is a County Special magistrate that's not working within our boundaries that person can be dismissed immediately under contract right so I I could live with we're both on I just I I I've seen them work wherever this Council wants to go it's no big deal for me Jake Johansson yes sir I uh brought this up uh uh among some of the other boards uh U mainly because well we we can't keep it loaded with the right people um you know Mr Dempsey brings up some good points um uh and if you look back to some of the decisions we've made since we've been here we have advisory boards that we have gone against or or or contrary to their their ad advice um and and here we are wanting to keep a a code enforcement board that that may or may not be doing things that that you are in tune with or or or in line with your thoughts on things um obviously I I like this we did it in the city of Port Orange there are many counties in the surrounding areas that do it um the special magistrate does in fact work for us and we can hire them and fire them and get backup guys and get people that that uh that kind of align with the way we think and and for the most part special magistrates kind of do have the feeling of of what's going on in the county and I also concur with Mr Santiago that by and large uh sometimes staff walks away and goes what did he do that for he gave him 60 more days what the grass is this high so I think that uh uh that special magist magistrates by and large are are are well balanced in how they make their decisions they're also well versed in the uh the code laws and and what to do and when to do it and and they get to know the frequent flyers as well so um uh I support this because I've seen it work uh in the town I work for the city I work for I've seen it work all all around the the country and uh um it's well established here in Florida um and as I understand from the uh City or the attorney we're already paying for somebody to be there so it's no added cost um and and it frees up some of our public now the the con is uh you're taking some public out of out of the um out of out of the governing of our of our city but I've also seen not particularly this code enforcement board but I've I've seen times where code enforc boards have acted due to personality not due to code and ordinance issues when issuing F so uh uh definitely haven't seen that here but I've seen it before thank you thank you uh don for me you demonstrated the um the need for a seven member board you I was on the fence really I had both feet over the side of go to the special magistrate because of efficiency because of fairness however I've sat in Code Enforcement board meetings and often you see the same thing happen one member will speak up and and give more information to the other people and it kind of changes the direction um I want to be everybody on this Council wants to be absolutely fair to people that appear before code enforcement boards it's a grueling process both for staff um and and for the our our residents the the people that depend on us that that go there um I'm going to support you I'm going to vote no on the special magistrate I because of what you just demonstrated to me you you changed my mind and and that happens frequently on this Council we we speak to to each other and and uh and convince each other that maybe there's a better way however I'm going to I am going to support it there's not a however to that but I would like to add another idea that I think whatever happens if this vote goes for a special magistrate or to um the board as it is there is something that we can do that would solve a lot of issues and give either a board or a magistrate relevant um Direct information and that would be and and I would I would like to see the council do this to direct staff to have every one of our um uh code enforcement um agents wear a body cam just like the police do and not because I don't trust the agents but because it protects them from from the public saying they lied they cheated they did whatever but it also protects the public it records exactly what happened in that conversation it records what those violations are in real time and it's not that exp for $10,000 I think we can get six cameras and everything that's that's needed to to go with it but that would be you know staff would have to research that and bring it back but I think that would solve a lot of the issues of trust to the public and our desire to have the people treated really fairly so Matt Reinhardt thank you here um how many are currently on the code enforcement board right now seven okay and I understand how we're finding it difficult to staff that board does this happen a lot remember we're we're relatively new the only the year year and a half that we've been in office would you say this is a traditional problem depends on the membership we've had some situations where we have lost um a quum for the most part we've been able to maintain a quorum so I mean over the years this has traditionally been a board that's hard to staff yes sir what you're seeing is because of the dates and everything else okay we have had um consistency and membership um that's helped us keep it going going back to the appell process so whether it was a code enforcement board or magistrate and the decision is not favorable to the citizen the citizen has a right to appeal it goes to a circuit court yes is that a judge or jury that would be uh judge single judge right so it's a single judge again that is going to is going to handle the appeal yes okay and thank you that that was all the questions I have I've seen this like I said from both sides I've also seen code enforcement boards that have had members on there and I'm not trying to disrespect them but they did not know what to do how to act they didn't know about the ordinance a magistrate is versed in law a code enforcement board member has to verse himself in in in the ordinances they don't know it all a lot of times and I've seen that happen there are several that do there are code enforcement boards I can tell you the um uh the lady that runs a code enforcement W day she knows it backwards forwards she she's well versed um but there are some boards that that some board members that don't know so I will say that and I guess the main point um that I want to make is the fact that the appell at process and and I understand Mr Dempsey you're a concern with the the one judge the single person making that decision but we do have an appell at process and the appell at process is going to go to one person a judge not a jury thank you Vice chair Troy Kent thank you chairman Council I was totally prepared to go with the direction of a special magistrate my tenure in Orman Beach it's always um who we dealt with for code issues and it it seemed to work out pretty good there were there were some times that I was scratching my my head and and that is until councilman Dempsey uh piped up because this is your wheelhouse and again you're dropping some pearls that are are blessed with common sense and I thank you for that and I I I can't continue unless I plug this even though You' voted against every initiative I've ever brought forward here here I mean I think a I think we're you're batting a thousand here all right so let me support Don Dempsey yet again yeah on a on a more serious note your um your your comments are well received and um I'm I'm going to support um your comments because it's I think the the right thing Danny Robbins U thank you chair um David uh Jake I don't know if there's a middle ground you know you had brought up an interesting scenario I forget which subject but it was uh maybe last meeting where we tried something out or kept something for a while and we were going to Sunset it should we come up with something like listen if this Bo if this board gives us a problem should we say hey if they can't get Quorum three times let us know come back to us if that happens then we can then we can go to this cuz then we have some to me I I'll tell you it'll get more people on that award if we could go back you know it's probably scaring everybody over there in legal but if we could go back to 200 years ago and I hate to say this but the whole purpose of a jury was not only to just apply the law of the facts but to see if the law applied to the facts was just that's called jury nullification they used it in the Underground Railroad when these families would help Runway slaves and they were being they were caught aiding and ab bedding a runaway slave and the defense attorneys were able to argue to a jury even though they were caught red-handed if you're against slavery you can find the defendant not guilty because you are just against this law in general it was another check and balance our system had I think our code enforcement board should not only be there to enforce the county ordinances to the potential violations but they should also have the ability to say you know what this just doesn't make sense this has been like this for decades why are we now enforcing this law about this shelf having to be this High instead of this High why are we doing this I think they should be empowered with the ability to get rid of nonsense codes applied to certain fact situations and that's where I'd really like to see our code enforcement board go I could see clay cringing right now or praying that the mic goes off guys but that's where I think this really should ultimately end up would it behoove us uh clay do we have alternates in code is that even possible like where we can have people in the hopper so we can guarantee that we will always have a corn or a me a fall black if I could I I might be getting off on I'm just trying to find fine I mean it's all valid points I you know when I first started working with the county one of the first boards I was assigned was a code enforcement board and I worked with a number of citizant boards always enjoyed doing that Cobo was my favorite Cobo uh is a hardworking board I'd say the code board and your plld arec your hardest working boards you got you tend to have working folks that sit on that they're sacrificing one day off a month minimum to sit and decide difficult decisions and you've seen them sometimes their neighborhood disputes neighbor against neighbor but and so they're doing a good job uh whether you have a special master or a code board I haven't heard anybody in your staff not saying that they think the cboard is doing a bad job the opposite is true I think they're doing a great job you've seen more jurisdictions go to special magist just I think frankly I think danan did about 15 years ago it's hard to get people I remember danan was having a problem with their c-o they couldn't get quum and so they finally decided you know they went to hearing officer um the process is the same the state law specifies the process it would not allow a codo or a hearing officer special magistrate excuse me to have legislative power to not apply ordinance that you've adopted now I will tell you the reason why I liked Cobo one of the reasons is I could see what wasn't working and staff we could report back and sometimes that resulted in recommendations to the council to change an ordinance because we could see the enforcement process for whatever reason wasn't working out I think that still is true today you know I think that happens um so you know unfortunately we're kind of unlike some of your boards we're kind of confined in what your card could do their job purely is to listen to facts and issue decisions it is common to you acting in a quasi judicial capacity except in their case they have the potential of issue in fines um I just was talking with Sabrina Who currently works for Cobo Saina slack um and Clay mentioned it you know one of the challenges we're having is getting the statute specifies which occupations um we We should strive to have represented we can't get an architect we've tried uh so if if you do stick with a cboard uh we really would need that and honestly it's difficult for an architect because sometimes they may have be doing business with the county well then they can't do it or they may represent a certain section and maybe they're Witnesses for people in code board proceedings it's just a harder profession to find in probably more lucrative profession who doesn't want to take a one day off a month um I just wanted to say that because you know your cbo's roles are defined your cboard doing a fine job what I've heard staff say is that they think that you know we're being sued because we don't have all the occupations represented currently right now and U the the Vega litigation if I believe um we're arguing against it you think we we strive to have all those positions filled but it's an argument um so that's it County attorney is that something if we're having mean we need to pay these people is sure is that obviously controlled statutorily or why exactly you know um are we not getting it I'd like to maybe just keep uh keep an eye out for that but I'm I think we can keep this kind of the probably the way it is is the feel I'm I'm getting for it but if if we encounter this maybe have a gentleman's agreement where hey we need to address this and that we're all kind of for it if this falls on its face uh here in the future and we cannot get that other person then we have to make a decis decision is that fair guys I think we've taken more than two bites out of apple Mr chair several people here yeah uh it's a big apple just a quick question for Sabrina or any of the attorneys over there Sabrina you're on that Bo you're the attorney assigned to that board how frequently do you not have a quorum um so in the last year uh we probably once didn't have a quorum um but we have the issue we also have is is how many members have to vote to take action which is a little bit more so that's the only time we've run into a problem if one of our members has to recuse themselves because they're involved in a project and they recuse themselves then when we were down to five members and if a member had to recuse then we had an issue with taking action but it was more an issue with taking action than having a quorum in the last year okay and uh e for you or Michael the problem he just discussed about filling all of the required positions can the council change that absolutely your appointments then and we're not and we're not having a problem not meeting quum here I'm just saying that that I was talking about Del's experience okay gotcha thank you uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair so I get you I'm with you I love asking the question so I just put the information out there and if that was to be said that I think the chair just asked the question if we don't if we keep things the same way then we could change the criteria of individuals or the people that we asked to be on that board that is the occupations are they're in the statute their statute right okay all right which you know it's not just a challenge with the code enforcement board not just us but every local government has that issue um Don I I tell you the other attorney got me wasn't you so thank you that we do learn from that okay all right David Santiago thank you Mr chairman I want to um before this goes too far because donkey's making compelling arguments and I'm I hope he doesn't come out soon that we have to all wear white wigs soon so uh I want to withdraw my motion Mr chair if uh was appropriate by Robert's Rules and I you had a second Jake do you have an objection to that with drawing a motion and then what will we do and then I'm a motion to table it time uncertain why don't we just vote and be done with it I think it's cleaner the other way but we'll do with counil that's that's so the the idea here is to make a decision not to Kick the Can I'm I'm the decision either ways Kick the Can but I think tbling it time uncertain is smoother but we'll do I remove my second if we vote it down then it doesn't Kick the Can it just stays the same Council chooses so we stay with the we do have one member of the public um that has sat here for a long time [Music] um Chad you have writing that's as beautiful as mine Chad linger felter was that right very pretty close uh yes sir lingan felter um but that's the way I make my n looks like an R so you me too all right sir uh well thank you uh chairperson Brower my name is chading I live in District 3 I'm here to present information concerning the mischaracterizations of the code enforcement board made by two council members at your last meeting um Jake said and I quote a special magistrate adds another layer of impartiality to the Code Enforcement cases not as tied to the elected officials as our appointed code enforcement people are if we can even appoint them end quote I'm the chairperson of the code enforcement board and I've have never been contacted by any of the present council members your predecessors nor contacted any of you or your predecessors in my eight years on the board except for one time when I contacted Dr Lowry about in a um regarding a a reappointment left a message never heard back so I am not tied to the elected officials as characterized and each agenda has an item to disclose expart Communications which members are to disclose conversations related to the cases on the agenda a special magistrate does not have to disclose those uh Jake also said uh that quote um advisory boards are extensions of government and very bureaucratically hard to manage end quote I contend the special magistrate is very easy to manage uh you've actually uh discuss that yourselves here um an elected official has only to call that one person who may not even be a resident or business person of Lucha County and suggest a special magistrate rule a particular way ask the former mayor of South Daytona and their former special magistrate who spent two and three years respectively in federal prison for accepting bribes to reduce code enforcement leans I'm a member of the public evidenced by the three minutes you've given me to to speak I serve at the pleasure of the County Council uh to listen to my fellow residents with a goal of achieving compliance by the respondent council member Santiago quote uh stated quote struggles that they're having getting people to participate in applying our code accordingly end quote uh when he moved to have staff bring ordinance to implement special magistrate the last meeting my recollection was that we never not held a code enforcement board due to lack of Quorum even though or even through the pandemic I recall only one that uh an action like Sabrina was describing where we um didn't have enough members to have a quorum because a person had to recuse themselves because they were hired by that uh respondent to come towards compliance um let's see lost my place um leaving only we only had three members that could take action so we didn't have Quorum in January the County Council had eight applicants two of them incumbents for two openings on the code enforcement board since November we have a functioning code enforcement board consisting of residents with within those disciplines um in the in present ordinance the county attorney's office provides updates at the end of our meetings regarding the status of appeals of the boards actions I assumed we were doing a great job because they were saying our decisions were upheld in court thank you Chad thank you well done oh and may I may I just one more sentence because it's a thank you thank you for your time and affording me the opportunity to serve with wonderful men and women on the code enforcement board for the past seven years thank you okay so what we have is two more people that want to speak um Jake Johansson yes just a a a quick clarification I think uh at the last meeting that I spoke on the issue and again today um I stated not this board uh but as the uh chairman of the code enforcement board mentioned um nefarious Behavior has occurred before in this County in a city and uh that's kind of what I was to alluding to uh at the local level but it happens all around the nation and um um I'm not saying this Council or this code enforcement board um but the possibility exists in any and and he brings up a good point I guess it could happen with a special magistrate as well um but uh um I just wanted to clarify that thank you thank you uh Michael Dyer sure briefly just to avoid confusion anybody whether it be a special magistrate or a citizen board discloses xart contact before quasi judicial proceeding so that won't change regardless of what your decision is and lastly if you do keep the citizen board any help you could have in getting an architect to apply would be greatly appreciated sir can I ask a following conversation yes and for the county attorney that's not just us that's everybody out there right and anybody can find us an architect including the current code enforcement board so I encourage yeah and we've contacted people with staff before to try to find numbers yeah David Santiago I I don't know if my motion if we it's in place right to table on time uncertain is that in Play No the motion was to approve it for a special magistrate no then we withdrew we we withdrew the the motion and the second already so that's not in play and then I thought you didn't want to no he did he said yes he he did okay and then I made the motion to table time uncertain I just need a second second second Johansson so the same motion or David Santiago seconder Jake Johansson to withdraw which keeps every everything to table to a Time uncertain which keeps things where they are until it comes up again if ever Don Dempsey I just if the chairman who just spoke I forgot your name sir I apologize Dave couldn't remember it either but it's Chad can I ask you to come up real quick now that I got a chance to ask you a quick question in front of all these guys cuz I've always uh do you need to swear him in no he just no in your seven years I caught that uh yes sir do you ever find yourself in a position that you wish you could rule a different way but felt Bound by the county code well certainly I we you know um we have this discussion we have an engineer um and so after the presentation of the facts by both staff and the respondent um are there times where we've had an issue with well you are technically in violation of the code so we have to find it we have to find the respondent not in compliance because you are technically in violation of the code do you think you'd have an easier time recruiting board members if you guys had more power to maybe not apply the code in certain fact situations to do justice no I I think the I I think there's a this this niche of of Code Enforcement I mean I've you know I reconstituted a code a code compliance department at a city so I just have this desire for it um and so and and I think many of the members are um are very very active in it so I don't think there's um I don't think you would add I hear what you're saying it would be great to um have the ability to say you know what this ordinance doesn't make sense right but I also like what um Mr Dyer was saying is just those observations you learn what's not working hey this ordinance and I'm I won't speak of any ordinance but this ordinance is tough to enforce we need to look at how to improve upon it so that it's more predictable and and the residents and the business owners know exactly what's expected are you able to I mean because I've never heard any of these LI or any frustrations with the co with the code enforcement board I mean is there a way we could help you find that architect yeah uh well we had vacancies we had two persons that expired on November 18th so we we squeez through Christmas and January or December and January you know holding on to I hope the five show up and definitely the four show up so that was stressful for us just because of the reappointments okay weren't made until um January which became February so thank you for those appointments and we have a meeting tomorrow I'll be sitting there tomorrow thank you very much for what you do thank you thank you for let uh for uh letting me serve Michael Dyer just a couple of real quick questions for you um is there any reason that Carrie sits on that board right do you sit on the board as staff you don't as staff you do okay he serves the staff Sabrina is the attorney is there any reason that that board their own attorney like we represent staff is there any reason that if they observe what Don Dempsey just said and there's a statute that that they have to enforce that they just think makes doesn't make sense that they can refer that to the attorney or somebody to refer it to the County Council to repeal it CLA director of growth and Resource Management that is part of our job as in the uh growth and Resource Management Department is that if we have rules regulations goals objectives and policies in our comprehensive plan that we find are not able to be implemented or otherwise done in accordance with the policy directed by the County Council it's our duty to bring it back to you so that have you have we done that yes sir every time you see that we come forward and say we request Direction That's when we're saying that we see a problem with the implement and the reason why I think it that is structured that way is you know whether it's a citizen board or magate they're a judge you know so you know they're not going to say well I'm against this ordinance or not because you're the legislative body you're the one elected you established the ordinances in the laws and so your staff will come back if we're seing something needs to be tweaked I mean and amend recommend Amendment to the ordinance okay and again that and Mr chair I just want to put a point of context so a lot of the code violations they show up as variance requests at your pdrc someone gets cited for a ver for a code violation the solution is fix the code demolish a structure or go to the plrc to seek a variance um and that's where you get most of your code changes because the pdrc looks at you know what is coming before them they definitely tell me and staff this doesn't make sense and that's that's how a code change comes before you where we request um a change in that in that particular manner so it it touches an your legislative board your pdrc because of the amount of variances a particular code generates if it's not being if it's not working out too well so there is kind of that safety valve um that happens when we see too many variances of the same type okay thank you chairman we no longer have a motion correct we have a motion to table it for a Time uncertain so Michael one more question um for you I I asked you could we can this Council change the makeup of the board I thought you said yes we could and then I then I heard you say no we can't no I'm sorry if I misunderstood the question so the qualifications for your code board members are defined by Statute uh so we got to find an architect yeah okay yeah sorry um okay so the we have a motion on the floor I don't see anybody else that wants to speak to uh table the motion to for a Time uncertain by David Santiago seconded by Jake Johansson all in favor say I I any opposed okay Chad thank you for coming in item nine appointments to the affordable housing advisory committee there are eight appointments in front of you the nominations do have to be within a certain number of categories that are listed in your agenda item so if you do choose to appoint somebody just please be sure to indicate which position you are appointing them to okay Jake Johansson and Mr chairman I'd like to make a comment before we start and and um I I think it's important based on on the amount of emails we got last night and this morning and um I something I tried to figure out before I got here this evening but I can't um I received probably over 280 emails from uh people belonging to the Faith organization and and I know they're pillars of concern and one of them is affordable housing um however um uh I don't know if any of the people incumber or otherwise are from that organization but it seems to me that they sometimes feel um left out of of some of the conversations so I want to make sure sure that somebody from the Faith organization uh at least in my in my from my um uh nomination is is is at least allowed to uh apply and I will appoint them to ahac um so I'm going to be withholding my nomination today until I can figure out if any one of these people are in fact um U members of the Faith organization and the same will be said for the uh human Ser Services Advisory board when when my appointment comes up so um before we start I just want you all to know that I won't be uh picking anybody this evening okay Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um there was one I have one in mind but I want to make sure that that person as uh what Mr Joe Hansson said uh is in fact uh part of the Faith organization cuz I2 was recipient those emails so I want to make sure that they uh are uh actively involved um so uh there's I know the person uh she's on this list but I do want to verify and that was uh Miss odina I'm not sure if she is or not so I will find out first before I make my decision is she is okay good um so that being said I can make that one then I was going to make it I were you he was probably going to make it too I he I think Troy was okay you you are nominating uh suzan suzan oina for the category of a citizen who is actively engaged real estate professional in connection with portable housing yes I have one too Mr chair okay David Santiago Dwight Selby oh come on a citizen who repres sentence employers within the county you got to get your name up there quicker okay um David Santiago nominates Dwight Selby uh Troy wasn't your name just up there oh it was for for Dwight Selby who I served with on the Orman commission and was going to put him uh as an incumbent back on on that board but Mr Santiago beat me to it I'm I'm looking for another choice okay well I will I will nominate Mark Billings as a citizen who has actively engaged as a not for-profit provider of affordable housing Troy Kent yes I will nominate whan n as a citizen who resides within the unincorporated areas of the county Don Dempsey he took mine give me they come off when the 31st so we don't have one more meeting but they won't have a meeting till after that I don't know probably I'm not certain when their next meeting is is it we're not going to get all seven it doesn't look like anybody else have a nomination um Danny Robbins Don Dempsey Jake Johansson is not going to do it tonight chair I'm going to hold off as well I'd like to see okay Denny Robbins is going to hold off to the next one and Don are you going to hold off okay chairman next meeting is April ail 10th all right um it takes you how long to get the background check in a week it can be done in a week the good standing check it's not a background check I'm sorry so if you come up with somebody just try and get it to her at least a week before our meeting so what we have right now is nominations for Dwight Selby Wayan n Susan oina and Mark Billings uh all in favor say I I any opposed and those [Music] four are approved 7 to zero can you tell me who seconded it pardon me whose nominations they are yes uh D Selby was um David Santiago and that was for a citizen who represents employers within the county correct I'll go ahead and repeat them and if I'm incorrect please just let me know m Mr Brower you appointed Mark Billings for a citizen who is actively engaged in a not for-profit provider of affordable housing correct Mr Reinhardt you nominated Suzanne oina a citizen who is actively engaged as a real estate professional in connection with affordable housing Mr Kent nominated whan n a citizen who resides within the unincorporated area of the county Mr Santiago appointed um Dwight Selby a citizen who represents employers within the county Mr chairman Jake Johansson clarification um Wayan n before was a citizen who represents essential Services Personnel um did did did that change C yes it looks like he's qualified in two categories yeah multiple of the members are qualified to serve in multiple different I see all right thanks okay however if we think it would be easier to find someone in the unincorporated County instead of the essential Services I I could change the wording on it and nominate him still is my my um choice but under that I don't think it matters does it CH just that we had to have one in these different areas and you may find someone in the unincorporated who's not in the essential service Mr K I would agree with you that it would probably be easier to find someone so thank you for bringing that up Mr Johansson so I'm still going to keep Wayan n under the incumbent who represents essential Services personnel as defined in the local housing assistance plan okay and Carissa we have uh two people who volunteer that we can't appoint um because they don't qualify in any categories is that true Terry uh Cam and Phyllis Terry you would you would need six um individuals from a category so um I believe the the board is nine total and so um one of those those individuals could serve they just would not be serving in a category because you do need six categories which so far you have four okay and we need a total of nine okay no other nominations then these Mr Brower the ninth member is Mr hen so you do need eight individuals okay and chiss just to verify on the um on the affordable housing advisory committee page 95 um I'm I'm the County council member I was uh 23 for two years so shouldn't I be current term exploration one of is it 2 years from my from my appointment date I'm looking at my appointment date is 15 of 23 for 2 years and I expire in 331 of 24 don't say expire well was a lot of people have expired today according to us I'm not certain Mr Johansson I'd have to go back and review the just make sure that's right because we would have to make sure I'm there for April 10th but we can also do that in the next meeting okay you clear okay last item appointments to the contractor licensing and construction appeals board item 10 twoe terms for all seven members correct end at the end of this month correct um and again these individuals do need to serve from the designated categories okay Matt Reinhardt before somebody else takes your nomin yeah I I nominate John melt the incumbent for plumbing contractor see I knew John too John John manette for plumbing contractor Troy Kent yes uh James Jones general contractor James Jones for General Danny Robbins Mike McDonald incumbent uh consumer rep okay Mike McDonald I could see his name consumer rep and David Santiago MIT Cole mechanical contractor Mitchell Cole for mechanical you have two plumbing contractors and that's okay okay uh don Dempsey I guess Michael would junc the engineer michaelw juniac who is uh consumer representative I will nominate Caitlyn uh Southerland souin as plumbing contractor okay and Jake is waiting until next um so that's no I'm I'm this this one I'll I'll select okay uh the remaining John M out oh wait a minute there's there are none there are six yeah I'm I'm good nobody remaining okay so we have uh uh six nominees um James Jones general contractor Michael Cole mechanical contractor Michael WATC consumer rep uh Michael McDonald consumer rep John menel plumbing contractor and Caitlyn Southern plumbing contractor all in favor say I I any opposed and they are appointed 7 to Zer do we have any public participation John Nicholson would you like to go first John Nicholson Daytona Beach side uh first I'd like to correct um I think I gave the impression that the chamber open house was next week it's the beginning of April the I think it's Wednesday Thursday and Friday at the beginning of April and I would encourage all of you to go uh as support for both the economic engine uh which is Daytona Beach and the Halifax area uh I think they need all the support they can get uh and now here's a topic that you guys won't like um when I was up in uh North Carolina for my sister's birthday topics came up there were discussions there have been discussions among friends that I have in Daytona Beach um the governor is pushing uh the elimination of Dei uh to me Dei is discrimination exclusion and intimidation because it's a uh discriminates against white people it discriminates against um non-gay people it discriminates against all kinds of people because they've got an agenda all right um when I taught school um got a ba in history a minor in philosophy went to te school and I was told I couldn't get a job because I was white uh a federal judge had determined that uh in the 70s we had moved enough teachers enough black teachers into the school system so he put in a quota and I'm sure you guys realize that quotas are illegal well over time these things may sound familiar to you affirmative action set asides quotas preferential hiring and mirror of the community so that the makeup of a city staff mirrors the community the makeup of their businesses mirror the community all of these things end up discriminating against somebody from whatever reason all right um our president to me was offensive when he said I will only nominate a black person for my vice president I will only nominate a black female for um Supreme Court I will only nominate so six times it was only a black female that to me is offensive to all females let alone all people so I'm asking you to think about eliminating any wording in any documents that we have in any uh boards or whatever based on race it's EEOC drives me nuts whenever I see it at the bottom of a page we don't discriminate when you see that at the bottom of a page that's been 60 years ago it's time we moved on I know you all don't understand where I'm coming from but it's out out there there are a lot of people that are over this racism thank you thank you Karen Clark you came back feels like i w a hello again I can't believe the patience you all have anyway um let me go back to here I know that Jake was U um concerned about people speaking on public uh you know right now and it would be nice to have something that has something you can make a judgment on is that how I interpret it I hope um there's something that's coming down to Pike and I know I'm going to be there on Thursday's meeting where they want to put another huge development and uh for the train for the SunRail area that's been when Tai Harris first came before the county representing the area for the buildings and everything um where old New York Avenue Glenwood Road and um Grand Avenue all kind of come together I remember and it was okay they were going to have around the um Railroad Station to have houses similar to like we have on up in Queens in New York where you have one two or three stories there's a community in the backyards so that when you drive down the street you see the houses and behind them back to back there'll be areas uh for a car to park in their in in the house garage what's going to happen because most families have at least two or three cars whether you are by yourself like I am I got two trucks my husband died so I have two trucks if I was living in an apartment where would those trucks go and when you have all these new um I what's the proper word Intermodal where you are around the railroad station and you're living in there and you're making a development first where's the water going to come we all know that but it's mostly the amount of people that's coming in there where are they going to park the roads aren't going to handle it and P the city of the land the water is so awful anyway they have to be able to supply um let me see what 2,000 new homes that are going in in the next couple of years there that the city of D land has to um somehow support but it's coming down the pike so you're going to have people like me who when I have a whole lot more information will be bringing it to you so that when you finally get it it's not going to be just like what happened with that fuel mess that's up there in or up in onine Beach where I believe it was you Jeff that said what how come we haven't heard about this sooner when they were changing the land use you wouldn't know about it until it finally gets to you two and three years later and then it's really too late to fight and I understand because I was sick this place was packed to the hilt downstairs outside and everywhere else and it still went through somehow um you need to know these things before it gets to you and I don't know any other time but for people like myself to bring It Forward that's it thank you uh County Manager yes sir just uh couple of items uh first off uh we our veteran services uh division is hosting a uh veteran standown event out at the uh Fairgrounds April 19th which is a Friday Friday and Saturday the 20th from 9: to 3:00 p.m. be out there at the Hester building on our Fairgrounds uh it's uh want to invite all the veterans out there they're going to have Services that'll include VA uh benefit information career resources educational resources clothing giveaways Health Care information homeless veteran resources free food distribution by Farm share free lunch provided by bull and boore barbecue and supply and even free haircuts so this be a nice event out there for our veterans and now uh I got uh Suzanne's got uh something else just to uh inform you guys of I council members uh there's good news at the state level in that the legislature uh has uh dedicated significant additional money to Trail development in the state of Florida uh as part of that effort however uh the Florida Greenways and trails Council has been charged with ranking uh the Regional Trail corridors uh to determine how to allocate money now what they've been directed not to do is amend any of the current five-year work program uh which includes currently almost $73 million of Trail development in valua Camp County to complete gaps in our River to Sea Loop uh we are uh wanting simply to bring to the attention of the Florida Greenways and trails Council the importance of the existing funding for valua County and reiterate and re-emphasize uh the fact that those programs should be kept intact we have uh understanding their meeting the end of this month so uh I think we're at the staff level going going to send a letter under Mr rectenwald signature simply uh uh reoc or continuing to advocate for valou County's 72.7 million work program so that we ensure the river toy Loop projects get complete and this is really just a an informational item for Council if you have questions we'll be happy to get into any detail you need but uh if you see a letter go out under George's signature I wanted you to be aware of it thank you suzan uh County attorney Michael Dyer yes uh just briefly uh late yesterday I sent you uh a first version of a legislative summary of bills that passed the legislature most bills have not been acted on by the governor at this time so what we'll do is we'll send you some updates on this uh we send this to staff as well so everyone knows what's happening try not to overlook a bill because so much happens particularly at the end of session it's hard to track everything um Jake had mentioned to me he' read the full report and it's prepared to speak to it um but uh but one of the bills that's listed in there Senate Bill 770 um you know we're not used to getting good news necessary out of legisl session but that does help us tremendously uh in the position you supported on the pace programs if the governor signs it um basically the legislature came down and agreed uh I think with our preferred position that a pace provider would need approval of this Council or a city commission operate in their jurisdiction it does that probably there going to be a dispute over uh the leans they've entertained up to the lawsuit I'm sorry up to the bill taken effect but that's a big shot in the arm of litigation I think it supports the position of this Council and some other jurisdiction so we'll keep you updated uh as to um legislation if you have any questions please let us know thank you thank you and that brings us to uh County Council and today's rotation starts with David Santiago thank you Mr chair I was going to try to uh enact Troy completely but I'll just do the hand gestures because I can't replicate your voice okay um look at all of yeah um he starts this way with his compliments you know what I mean I I just I said it twice today but I it just hit me again you know staff I just I'm happy with you guys uh I want to voice it again I you guys do good job for us and represent us well and and you you take direction and you do what we tell you and then you take Direction saying we don't want you to do that anymore so I know it takes a lot to do that but you all do it very professionally and I wanted to compliment all of you your team so thank you for that the the only other item I had was for my colleagues um I was thinking about last our last meeting and we talked about some development things and we did some Direction with storm water but there was a lot of topic about um infill I think we talked about and I know we have our Workshop coming up on April 30th um to talk about some of these topics I wanted to put uh see if there's a consensus to get staff to also include the topic of infill we talked about that because it was a budget item that specifically set it only to affordable housing and then we had dialogue saying no we should open it up to anybody that want that is Affordable or not so that we kind of um make the rules similar for everyone so I I think there's there's good reason for infill right because closer you know to jobs to uh infrastructure um and and prevents a you know we'll make that argument later on but I I see head shaking so I just want to see if there's consensus for staff to show us where are these non-conforming lots that may be buildable to create more infill uh to in in hopes to you not you know promote sprawl I guess if you want to call it the opposite right so if there's consensus if staff can bring us and maybe show us the areas that this could potentially work and have the least impact Mr chair yeah oh I'll make that motion okay we have a motion to uh for staff to bring back a a map that shows where these um um inconsistent lots lots that don't um non-conforming you non-conforming um so that we can see where they are motion by Mr CH just want to make sure because I I apologize for interrupting you I want to make sure my uh motion is clear and to come back with recommendations for us to consider during that Workshop of what we can do to promote infill in those areas versus you know out fill I guess the opposite infill map and recommendations how do we get there you got did you get the motion clay CU you do the work okay and uh Danny Robbins made that second any comments questions all in favor say I I I any opposed and motion carries 7 to zero and last comment Mr chair good job team I think we had a prettyy good meeting good some good debates um Don you you've been batting a thousand you know like I just wanted to stop before you make us all wear white wigs I'm telling you that day is coming they're GNA say yes but I'm a no on that okay thank you Mr chair Don dempy well now I'll talk now that you could at least give us your best 30 second comedy routine I'll just double down on what I said earlier about George like I'm not a big fan of SunRail never have been probably never will be but I really really would like to thank George for trying to do as much as he can for the county with what he had to work with and um you know so I just don't I don't want anything that I've ever said either at these agenda meetings or in public to ever be interpreted that I I fault you guys I mean you guys to me have done wonderful job and negotiating what you could with what we got so I just wanted to double down on that and tell you thank you that's all I have for the to day thanks guys Jake Johansson no comment sir Vice chair Troy Kent thank you yes my list here it's it's just a couple of items really it is just a couple of items Council um and and valouch County I had a great experience Frid night I did a ride along with um sheriff sheriff chitwood's um Department up in District 4 and I rode with Chief Deputy Brian Henderson and it was a busy Friday night things were things were hopping and those men and ladies were um safe and hardworking and smart and dedicated and it was it was a positive experience I I agree with what I've heard as far as the meeting today I think that we did take some steps to keep us efficient and effective I I just caution the council with one item and that is when we don't follow the rules that we've established and tonight we had an instance where and and I'm I'm a fan of the resident she I believe she left now but you know she got up to talk on an item that was on the printed agenda not at the correct time and I'm I'm pleased she was able to make it to the end of the meeting but when we start doing that we open the door for more of that to happen I just I just caution us and the last thing I want to talk about is the Ocean Center Cat Williams Arena cross Harlem Globe Trotters bull riding and Bert Ker Motocross yeah Arena they called her I called it Motocross but it was Arena cross so I was trying to fix it this time way to go to this Council for making this positive policy change and mad props to Lyn Flanders the director of the Ocean Center for listening to this Council and getting the job done don't stop have a nice evening Matt Reinhardt thank you chair uh we we had a little fun earlier trying to mimic each other and Troy's thing there and I came up Danny's this this but but by far my favorite was so I just want to say which is Don Dempsey can we can we get him a headset yeah exactly so I I really didn't have much tonight I actually planned on talking about some non- jail issu I know I know but it got put back guys I'm really sorry because I had I had to answer 350 emails so um I I couldn't do it and I really did I had to answer those so but I did get the opportunity to discuss with them um so full disclosure we were out of town regardless of what was said and we have been experiencing some issues with my daughter thank you guys for your patience the last last time and she's doing better um back to work but um I don't think that that I tried to explain that to him but it's nobody's business so but um I'll I'll make sure I talk about jail stuff next time okay all right and but I before I go uh real quick April 11th um Barbara Anne heagan from the port AR South Daytona Chamber of Commerce made mention of it today um Mr Robbins and myself along with some other uh individuals were on the panel for the opio opioid in the workplace discussion I would encourage uh anybody to that wants to to attend we're going to attack some good issues the keynote speaker being the sheriff obviously he's familiar with this issue um I know Danny has in his law enforcement career I have certainly in the uh the jail side of things so uh hopefully we can bring some awareness more to this and I'm looking forward to that discussion thank you Danny Danny Robbins thanks chair I'm a man of my word uh Council I'm going to make a motion just to uh the chairman had hit on something I'm in supportive as well um if we can just get a a cost and uh maybe feasibility and implementation of uh body cameras for code enforce just to see what we're looking at then we'll go from there it shouldn't be that that involved we have them for multiple other departments uh anybody that that can R uh red tape a job give a summons uh has authority to enter remain on a property and inspectors so Mr Robbins just so we're clear for the code enforcement aspect because they're not Law Enforcement Officers so they actually have to ask for explicit consent to be able to record so I I don't know if that comes into your motion consideration at all I just want to put that out there right and I and I believe there's some other policies in place I think Deltona and maybe Daytona code there's other uh Daytona Beach does that's all I want to mention they have that policy yeah we I think if we can look at that maybe just see what see what works but uh I just want to kind of dip our our foot in the pool uh guys and and we'll just go from there yeah and you you would have to bring back all of of that legal ities and besides the camera and Equipment there's storage requirements um by law so it has a price tag and then the council can consider it would you want want that in a motion guys I thought you just made a motion second that okay okay you have a motion for the council or for staff to bring back uh the possibility of using body cam for code enforcement um officers seconded by uh Matt Reinhardt all in favor say I I any opposed and U thank you papa restaurant in New samna it caught on fire over the weekend that's such an iconic place um I uh hope they they get that uh back up in in and going but um other than that uh the fishing is good at the jetty for all of our fishermen out there um so yeah lot of stuff to do we live in a tremendous Place thankful thanks guys for supporting me tonight thank you okay well Danny eliminated one of my topics thank you uh for that um so I have one more but first Pastor ganzel you opened us with prayer and you're still here I just wanted to thank you for coming and sitting through this meeting and and witnessing firsthand what the County Council does um we could always use your prayer as the as do the citizens of vush County just had one other thing that I wanted to rather than just add it to agenda I I I don't want to do that to the board I want you to be able to think about it and consider it um Mike or George our um workshop for looking at at zoning that Troy had asked for is that scheduled for April 30th is that correct yes okay I think that's correct okay 3 o'c 3 o'cl you're able to make that good okay um I would I would like this to be considered in that meeting I think it probably would be but just to just to um make sure um concerning the Valia County industrial zoning uh category I2 um it came to my attention this week that some citizens met with staff about this I really appreciate that who whatever staff members met and and gave them uh heard them out gave them good information they were probably all from the Orman Beach area um and uh the I2 zoning category lists a number of specifically defined um permitted principal uses and structures and then it also lists any industrial not defined any industrial use or structure provided it meets the minimum minimum environmental standards in section 72- 288 and is not a permitted special exception um that's a in my opinion that's a ill defined um catchall phrase for a very important um uh zoning category and I2 it's it's so so I would like to um have the council at that meeting um consider that instead of having a a wide openen uh catchall language um that any applicant may be able to use um to describe a proposal proposed use or structure that has not been specifically listed as permitted use by right um if that phrase is to be used at all it should only be used as a special exception and that would relieve the problem of of none of us knowing um uh something like uh a chlorine gas company coming to a residential neighborhood or whatever it is and then we're accused of of not um paying attention and not knowing about it if it's a special exception it could come back to the council and I know we're going to be discussing special exceptions does staff make it does council make it um you know and that's all I'm asking that we discuss it put it out on the table for the public um a special exception would require a careful review um for the use or structure um so that it can be not denied if not appropriate for its proposed location or where additional safeguards and conditions can be placed uh in its approval um to get it approved to ensure protection to the county as a whole and to our neighboring communities so what I would suggest that the the county should PR should amend um the Land Development regulations um just to move uh the catchall phras phology from I2 zoning permitted used to I2 special exception the word permitted should be removed from permitted to just special exception um will would that have come up for discussion yes okay so I don't need to worry about it you already instructed us to do that and when we actually came up with the workshop idea so that discussion will occur okay David Santiago want to expand on that George I think it was going more of a holistic approach right it was all of the categor the chair just kept pretty specific don't lose those notes uh because I think in a workshop discussion uh you know we'll get to that but yes the the workshop would be much broader but certainly uh I think U the I2 zoning was one of the impetuses yeah uh to even have in that Workshop yeah I just want to make sure that for me I I don't mind having that discussion I think there's a discussion to be made on other categories I think that staff can Rec almost every meeting you guys have added a category or said something so I'm a little yeah yeah yeah I say almost every meeting you guys have added a little something y so it'll be a a pretty robust workshop and Mr chair since you brought up that that topic I just want to encourage staff because we can we can talk a lot sometimes if you guys can try to make an agenda that you can try to keep us to I know we control our time and we'll probably have to just be self-disciplined so that we can get through it uh because I can see a lot of dialogue happening there and it could be a midnight meeting um but and probably a lot of public yeah possibly well workshops are typically just Council discussion yeah public can come to workshops they they can but it's a council discussion yeah well don't they have to have public input at a we not at a workshop if it's advertised as a workshop where there'll be no final vote taken uh and it's different than an actual special meeting okay we had I just remember the arpa workshop where we had we were going to advertise as a special meeting in Cas Council gave Direction but we can do that I mean we can advertise it as a special meeting uh that way they can make a decision but you've called it a workshop and that's that's for a reason for yeah I prefer the workshop to have open dialogue amongst all of us just and just to be clear about what that will mean though is you won't be given taking any votes to give direction to staff at that that'll be the benefit is for you to have a discussion um for a decision at a later day but it's decision to go work on this and bring it back yeah direction right we would say uh yeah Mr Mr D I got to say no at at a workshop and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm I'm with Mr Santiago we can't take a vote but we can certainly give you Direction yeah I I'm just saying you're not you're not giving final Direction on anything at a workshop well we're not taking a final vote there's no vote taking place but we certainly can give you Direction marching orders on what the expectation is from this Council I I agree okay all right okay Danny Robbins uh I I agree with David on everybody else on the on the workshop I want to uh if we can uh make an itinerary like David you know maybe put everything down in blocks if it's 30 minutes for this so we can keep things moving my main focus is moving forward and progressing and not uh moving backwards or maybe rehashing stuff that we already uh addressed uh in in our meetings thank you you're I learned today that Don loves apples Tak several bites okay I've got Danny you were done David Santiago you were done okay then this meeting is a journ 39 minutes late at 7:39 oh 39 minutes late my call was 7 e