[Music] n [Music] [Music] he [Music] hey [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] he [Music] he [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] he [Music] w [Music] w a [Music] a [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] he [Music] oh [Music] [Music] I [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] a [Music] okay if everybody wants to find a seat I think everybody did we'll get started in just a couple [Music] seconds 13 [Music] seconds all right thank you for coming and we will call the um July 23rd special Workshop to order at 300 p.m. and um we're going to we will start off with a pledge allegiance like we usually do if you would uh uh like to participate in the pledge please stand with me to the flag of the United States of America the it stands Nation God and justice for all thank you Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Johansson Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey Mr Brower here so we do have a quorum and before I call in County Manager I say I already have two names up uh three names did y'all want to you didn't okay uh County manager was going to introduce the workshop that you want to speak before he starts okay then I'm going to turn it over to George just to talk a little bit about what's happening here and um we'll go from there y thank you CH thank you Mr chair honorable counsel uh good afternoon uh we eagerly been putting this together to for our Workshop that actually goes back with roots to the county council's goal setting uh where you went over uh many of your goals and of course uh several of them pertain directly to this uh creating a more efficient regulatory framework increasing the efficiency and effectiveness of government operations uh and Foster and support a soltion oriented culture so we're going to work on how that applies today with the permitting and Zoning Workshop I just want to remind everybody that uh this was and we talked about this as a as a group if you recall this was advertised as a workshop because the council doesn't get the chance to uh talk to each other um they have to do that in the sunshine and open so this gives them that ability to uh talk about things have a conversation that's really what it's designed for there'll be no votes taken today on anything so again this is their opportunity to do that and then we as staff are taking notes and and uh we'll take a of course we'll review what uh the video and such and uh we'll bring back uh an action plan based uh on what we hear today that you guys can vote on for uh our implementation of what comes out of this so so I appreciate that I'm going to turn it over now I her Marlo our very fine and calm uh moderator for today so thank you Mr maner Mr chairman Council please to be with you you see your goals up there and I was pleased to be part of helping you assist those today's an important Workshop because we're actually going to start moving those goals to app implementation so that you can in the near future say you've actually achieved them uh and as George said it's a workshop uh and let me just rate there there no motions today there are no votes there are no decisions this is a chance for you to converse among yourselves and for staff to hear your thinking what George will be doing is bringing you an action plan based on the discussion today at some near point in the future uh and that's when it will be a formal document you'll actually receive it in public meeting have a chance to discuss it debate it make a motion to approve it or not vote on it and have a public comment on that okay okay all right thank you uh and the depending on what you choose to move forward today there'll be a really a large number of public hearings in the future because you may be modifying some ordinances and those each require two public hearings so going to be enormous opportunity for public contribution today's really a chance to hear from you now here's our problem we have 120 plus recommendations I supposed to have you out here by six o'clock I've grouped that into 12 questions that's times calman Dipsy comes that's 84 answers if you do the math you each have 90 seconds to answer my question that's going to be challenging for us all uh so I'll ask you to work with me on that here's a couple of ways I want to do it to uh move that uh and I'll G have to have somebody back there uh one I'll ask I'll ask a question of you I'll just sort of Rod down the row real quickly rather than have the shair call on you so that you each have that and I'll alternate so that some point you'll get to be first on answer or last uh we will uh it'll be a fairly straightforward question what I want to hear is your thinking about it how do you think about this issue it's really uh and for a chance for you to hear how your other colleagues think we're not trying today to convince each other of your position it's really to hear your position and your thinking about it so if you can take your 90 seconds to share that with me I would appreciate it what I will also do today uh y'all are both a fun and challenging group to work with there's no lack of ideas uh so I'll ask a couple of things if you do have an idea it's not particularly pertinent to this if you write it on slip of paper give it to clay or I uh we were going to write it on that flip chart but somebody will go in the back and write it on the flip chart we'll look at it at the end uh so if you know we may or might not have time to discuss them if you have a question but you don't need that question answered to give your respon response if you'll write that down again we'll note it uh so I don't mean to limit your discussion but on the other hand if we can get through this 12 stuff your goals can really be moved forward a lot faster so I hope uh to be able to do that with you I do want to say I've had the honor of working with a lot of County governing bodies and many of them have set goals very similar to yours the response you have from your staff is the most comprehensive response I've ever seen a staff provide to this under the leadership of George and Suzanne and clay have taken your goals very seriously and are really trying to provide you a way to actually Implement them in a very practical logical matter so I I would like you to recognize this is a tremendous amount of work they brought for you today and if we can get through it they can keep moving on it so uh any other questions about process or any additional suggestions C sanago thank you Mr chairman I want to make sure I understand the process so you're saying you're going to explain each section go through the power points um and then we can ask questions then I will ask you questions not the question do you agree with this or not or do you well depends on the question is different for every every item but there'll be a question that's asking your thoughts about that item whether you would want to move forward with it or not whether you agree or not changes or whatever so I'll be asking you questions uh once clay clay will do the presentation yeah I want to make sure that we have the opportunity to share dialogue amongst ourselves cuz though I want efficiency I want to make that very clear right because we get longwinded including myself um but I'll use an example if Jake says something that may have moved my position or I want to move Jake's position because ultimately we're giving direction not voting right but the direction is going to be given by the majority right so it's almost like a vote but no vote for Direction so I just want to make sure that we're going to have that opport and you can keep it to a time limit Mr chair whatever but I think dialogue is important I and I fully uh understand that councilman I don't want to preclude it all I just do want to try to communicate the the massive amount of material I'm trying to get through here and I appreciate any cooperation I can and at some well Don's not here so we'll probably move pretty fast okay all right so uh we have four agend items we're going to deal with today the first is I2 zoning then we're going to look at special exceptions then we're going to look at code then we're at infill so we're going to start with I2 Clay is going to give a presentation on that uh and he will start with a slide which talks about how they took these goals and translated them into set operational questions thank you sir good afternoon clay Irvin director growth and Resource Management uh as herb just said these are the questions that your staff looked at as we were going through all of these items these are higher level questions and what we're really focusing in on with was your goals what you wanted us to do reduce costs be more efficient make sure that we're not doing redundant and over stepping our boundaries so as we went through all of these different reviews and discussions that's what we were focusing on as we talked about these are the four topics that we were going to be handling today and I'm going to jump right into the I2 zoning regulation um at the heart of it is that something that carries through all of our zoning regulations there's uses that are allowed by right there's uses that are allowed by conditional use there's uses that are allowed by special exception within the I2 zoning the first sentence and under the permitted use is any industrial use of site or building that's not otherwise required to have a special exception so that is a very broad very open-ended list of uses that could potentially land on those properties this has been reflected in some of the uh conversations we've had about a specific development of a site in the Orman Beach area so what we are hearing through the discussions that took place there has to be some sort of modification so we're coming here to you today to kind of talk through what those changes would look like first and foremost and Herb's going to get into it is do you make the change well if you do make that change we face some other issues if the solution is to change the list of uh permitted uses and update that permitted by right permitted by special exception permitted by conditional use how does that look and how does that impact those properties that have I2 zoning there was a question that was posed of saff then we provided to you there are currently five Parcels that have the I2 zoning all of them are located north of Hall Road in the Norman Beach area um if we come in and strike that language or otherwise modify it we do face some issues from a property rights perspective and hence that's why we say there may be some solutions that may minimize our exposure to the risk of either being sued for a Bert haris property rights act or issues in associated with Equitable estole in other words someone has made a good faith effort to apply for and seek development based on those current rules and if you change those rules they cannot do so that would be considered Equitable a stole so what we have is first and formost exempt those properties with current I2 zoning this addresses basically the Bert Harris issue and that if we say we're making this change but it's only going to apply for properties that could otherwise be zoned I2 so if out of the 772 Acres we have with currently with industrial land use throughout valua County those property owners could request a resoning to I2 if they are granted that then they would be subject to that new list of permitted and special exception uses the other option is dealing more with the Equitable a stopple issue which would be also to exempt those uses and properties with valid applications already in process so those are basically the options we want to throw to you as kind of starting the discussion of how you want staff to draft that initial attempt to correct that overly broad list of permitted uses herb will take you through his questions now I'd like to do this in three parts the first question question really is is with future land uses we're not talking about existing properties that have that zoning question question and do you want to amend uh the ordinance to give greater power and more control by County government that so I'd like to hear from each of you uh with that again we're going to talk about the existing properties I2 later but this first question if you don't want to do it questions two and three are moot but so if we can focus on the first question do you want to amend uh the ordinance for any properties that in the future could apply for I2 zoning councilman Johansson can I start with you please so this is the 772 Acres of of properties out there um I had asked staff uh uh during our our staff meetings if if we could somehow collaborate with the land owners to see if we could possibly work with them to be able to amend I2 and and let them be aware of it right now there's no Amendment they've hopefully done their due diligence they've read their information and they they know their future land use could be I2 so so there's an expectation there maybe they don't care and maybe it's not going to be an issue for us as far as Bert Harris or Equitable estole or anything like that in the future so I would like to communicate with them and and move toward more restrictive I2 zoning that that will cover us from the unknowns in the future there's things we have no idea are coming about because scientifically they're just not there yet and and I I don't want to get caught with an I2 zoning uh conditional use or special exception or by right that that we don't we're not aware of from 20 years ago so let's update it uh be a little more restrictive on what needs to come to us and then also be very cognizant of what we build around this future possible I2 zoning so we're not building residential around I2 and putting us in this situation we're in today thank you C Robins thank you um this is more for and I just need to tap into clay so I can possibly formulate my own opinion um clay you had said uh that these land owners can make a request to go from i1 to I2 or I3 or I4 there right what does that request entail what is the process and the checks and balances that are already in place um so I can compare and Council can compare them to possibly adding more regulation to this regulation um if you currently have property that has an industrial land use on our future land use map you can request a rezoning to I2 and it would just simply go through the standard resoning process where it's staff review for comparison and com uh more importantly consistency with the comprehensive plan it then goes to the planning and Land Development regulation commission for their review and recommendation and ultimately you would approve it it is a uh public hearing both at the planning and Land Development regulation commission and here at the County Council it's it's an applicant initiated resoning so it's only one re one hearing is there a um I don't know if rutle is the the right word for it where where the public could challenge um the process or challenge for instance like the plr DC uh recommendation or challenge um you know in some places you can challenge like the DRC or I'm going to defer to the attorneys on who's basically a u an affected property owner or excuse me an affected party can appeal the decision of the County Council in regards to whether or not you're adhering to the criteria for the rezoning yeah so the the uh person seeking the resoning would have to establish that they meet the criteria in your zoning code if somebody and somebody can affected person present something contrary to you on that but it would be a quasi judicial decision by you I'll try to wrap this up quickly thank thanks County what would the difference be between what we have already and say like a proposed special exception or adding [Music] another right now I think you've heard from your staff that the concern is that it is a wide open uh I have never seen language like that in a zoning regulation since I started doing this in 1987 so that's where from my perspective as your growth and Resource Management director this is a wide openen whole that as Mr Johansson said there's things that I'm not envisioning right so if you can go forward with language that clarifies what we feel is appropriate that staff can approve that remember that's the critical part is that the permitted by right you still meet have to meet our Wetland standards you still have to meet all of our other uh Land Development regulations but it's approval by staff and there's not a public hearing if you clarify that any if you modify the special exception uses by adding to those you would also have to go through the planning and Land Development regulation commission and City count or excuse me County Council okay how many cases do we know of has this come up in the last 20 some odd years has there been this before the LA the last property that was rezoned to I2 is this property and that was 2006 2007 um I am not aware of any special exceptions that have been approved in the eight years I've been here we're still trying to research how far back um some of the existing uses such as chips dozers or Waste Management when they got their site plans approved understood so it's it's clear to it's quite uncommon um that's all I got okay cman Reinhardt thank you sir um I'm going to make mine very quick very brief um one of the things that was said with respect to residential potentially being around I2 or I2 being around residential um the language does need to clarify uh the zoning needs to be more clear it's too uh too broad too vague um the I2 does need to be cleaned up I don't want to this wasn't heard of back before when what was it uh I don't even know when when they changed the the property up there to I2 um I don't want to find ourselves in a situation just because we didn't think of a specific term uh there's language that could be put in it to prevent this from ever occurring again so it is to so where I stand is it does need to be uh cleaned up the language does need to be more clear we need to be able to avoid this from happening again in the future thank you Mr chairman I would agree with Mr Reinhardt but I want to break this into two sections one of you're talking about um anybody within with an industrial not necessarily I2 but they can request an upgrade to I2 yes sir if I'm understanding clay directly right now that has to go to pdrc and to the County Council for a special exception no if you were changing the zoning you would have to go through the rezoning process that's a separate different uh special exceptions are held to a different standard um comp plan amendments is where you have the greatest amount of latitude rezonings you still actually have somewhat of a latitude you don't have to guarantee somebody in I2 zoning if you feel it's not compatible yeah I don't I don't want to get put in that position again so if we go through the rezoning it still goes through pdrc and County and then to the County Council I'm good with that as long as we have a say to support the citizens I don't want any more wide open um uh zoning so that brings me to the second one the existing I2 that are all on whole Road and and I'm going to ask that question in a moment once we finish this if I may okay so you're just talking about the change of I I want no more wide open this is what's allowed it needs to come before the two boards thank you sir Mr ano yes yes okay that gives you a few more seconds and and I'm going to give Mr Dempsey a few more seconds as well absolutely yes okay Gman Dempsey welcome let me very give you a quick briefing we have 120 plus recommendations today I have organized by 12 questions there seven of you that's 84 answers so that's about 90 seconds an answer we obviously will have more time for discussion but just so you know that and I'm talking as fast as I possibly can being from the south so you're thinking about future changing the zon future land you not current properties now there I2 just i1 I3 I4 whether you want to modify the ordinance so it' be uh this hole in it that allows any use whether you want to modify it or not this as to I2 only or all in general just I2 um unfortunately I had to I got held up in court so I'm late and I didn't get to capture everything that came through so if I could yeah let me let me go currently unless clay would you rather do this but clay explain the issue to you and then I'll I'll yeah okay in the I2 zoning the first permitted use says any use of uh land or building for IND any industrial use not otherwise required by special exception in the I2 zoning from a as you've heard from your staff multiple times that opens it up so that any industrial use whatsoever could go in there on that property subject to meeting Our Land Development regulations so um staff feels that that wide open needs to be closed in and a better defined set of uses being permitted by right and permitted by special exception needs to be developed and I'm not asking any questions about land that has current I2 zoning I'm asking for the future uh if someone cames in and want to do it would you want to modify this ordinance now so that future applicants might have to uh be a more defined set of criteria I'd rather not to be quite honest with you okay that's the whole purpose here to hear each of your thinking okay okay all right now I'd like to turn to the second case of existing I2 properties I'd like to have that in two discuss discussions the first are four Parcels that are currently I2 they're not planning any different uses that we know of than they are right now and so the question is would you want to apply this ordinance to them or whether you want to exempt them from that essentially grandfather them in I'm not talking about the property that has an application in process we'll talk about that last but I'm going talk about the four now they are currently zoned that way they current uses obviously they could in the future uh would that zoning apply for different use but currently they're there so what I'd like to be able to hear is what's your philosophy about that this is a philosophical issue in many ways as well as some degree of risk you know if you chose to do this there is some possible Bert Harris risk uh for those in the public going know Florida has a very strong public lands Protection Program private property it's called The Bert Harris act if government takes actions in some cases which could harm the property owners they have a right to have some mitigation of that so that's issue uh V chair I'll start with use time give councilman dipy a chance to I just want to point a clar hold up one second we have a clarification thank you Mr CH point of clarification if I'm if I'm understanding correctly this second bullet point doesn't necessarily apply relative to the first bullet point we just answered the question too because the firstest bullet point is for non already entitled properties right so are you asking us do you want to exempt properties uh with current I2 zoning from an amendment but we don't okay we don't know if we're going to do any amendments we don't but based on discussion we have you did not I didn't hear a full rejection I've heard several RS I'm GNA assume the question's valid at this point make sure they weren't tied together Shar Ken thank you a huge part for me today why we're here is is this right here and your next question that you're going to get to is the real meat and potatoes for me so going along with what I said with the with the first question you know do I want to exempt these properties no I don't want to exempt them okay there's risk involved but there's risk involved in just about anything you do and our residents have spoken loudly and clearly and let us know that they're okay with that risk okay um so there's not from the selected body but there's going to be fear-mongering and and things out there about the sky is falling and this and that can happen but we have a very capable legal team and he's also very capable of hiring outside counsel to assist and help us to make sure that the nonsense stops because of our wildly inappropriate crazy liberal I2 zoning that I've heard clay for the first time say since his career 1987 which I don't know how you had an internship at 12 years old but since his career in 1987 he's never seen anything like like it okay all okay that's where I am PR very clear commissioner sanago before I answer that I just want to make sure what was uh uh Troy's answer to the question I I think he does he is choosing not to exempt those properties if I and Council M by Sheriff I misspeaks correct right so the way I'm reading this if if we exempt them then what we if we change something they're exempt to the change I don't want to exempt them okay okay I want to make sure because we're talking about one area in all of uchia County with five properties it's in my district it's in Orman Beach am I reading that right clay what I just explained about why I am choosing what I'm choosing with the exempt yes so what we're asking you here is we heard from you just now that overall the majority of y'all want us to do some changes so that the list is not as wide open if we make those changes should those changes apply to the properties that have the I2 zoning or should you exempt them and the reason why this question is being asked is that through case law what we've seen is that cities and counties who exempt help reduce the Burt Harris challenge that may and again I don't want to right say it's going to happen but may occur right and I don't want to exempt them and and remind me right now I'm asking only the four Parcels that are in current use you're not I wanted to make sure cman that his answer was no yeah your answer is um so you know I think I've been very clear about my position on this particular issue before you got here so I'm talking to my colleagues and to the public um that um you know I'm not willing to accept the liability that may be coming before us um and Troy what well I will acknowledge yes we've had the public come and speak to us and it's been your constituency largely um and so which I respect your position because you're representative form of government right so I want you to know that um at the same time you know representative form of government my constituency is not asking me to take on this potential risk liability so um I I would exempt them thank you I'm I misunderstood your answer I thought I thought you said you would not exempt them I would you would exempt them okay Mr chair okay thank you uh we're talking about the four properties currently have I2 would I exempt them um I I would not exempt them from from changes however there is a there is a case in which I would agree to it and that is if we grandfathered the four in that are currently working that aren't disturbing a residential neighborhood with the condition that they could not increase uh their production to a to a more um intensive form of of I2 which I know opens it up because then we got to Define what's intensive so I believe that would have to come uh back to council for uh a special exception maybe P DRC to but that's the only way that I would exempt them as if uh conditionally basically conditionally okay all right thank you C rard thank you um I actually am leaning towards not ex or not allowing them um to the exemption or not exemption I'm getting the the verbage up I apologize if if you choose to exempt them you're essentially grandfather than in I don't know if I grandfather them in okay I and you know we're not making decisions today right just hearing your thinking and right now my line of thinking is that however I'm interested to see what the verbiage will be once we clean up what the I2 zoning is um and you know that could change it again but right now the way the current language sits I would not okay all right okay councilman Robins thank you um I feel a lot like uh Mr sanago um I feel like we're almost punishing the existing land owners in a way um in in expanding this this uh problem or taking it from one piece of property and now going to everywhere else including i1 um I think we're a little head ahead of things that's my opinion but um I would uh I would grandfather them in I would exempt them from uh from any changes I don't think it's fair okay all her can you pause one second uh Vice chair Kent had a question it's actually just a comment for councilman Santiago when everyone's finished or unless you're okay with it now chairman I tell about later by we come back absolutely yes I I'm again I think property rights are important these people bought or obtained this property under the assumption that they could uh remain I2 under the current rules if they did their due diligence and and I I go back and you're going to hear this all day long it won't hurt to communicate with the landowner ERS to see if they're willing to accept or forego the grandfather maybe they'll go we have no intended to no we don't want to upset well we all live here we don't want to do that uh it might be that easy um so uh uh I would hope that that we would be reaching out to them in the in the short term right now to preclude something similar to what may be happening right now uh and and kind of give my heads up that hey if you're going to do something that that isn't in this list of things just give us a heads up so we can kind of get ahead of it and maybe work a deal before it it comes up and and is a miserable part of uh everybody's life but you would prefer essentially the grandfather than with the understanding there going to be communication and very much so and and maybe agreement that they'll accept the the new ordinance if there is one okay councilman Dempsey you're thinking about this I would have to agree with uh Jake Danny and David um I'm a property rights guy also and I would prefer to uh exempt them and grandfather them in okay all right thank you let me turn to the last question now oh I'm sorry you had a question here actually just just a quick comment because we're not voting but you know you're reading the tea leaves here so it's four to three right now so I'm I'm I'm talking to the four okay but I'm really talking to David because you mentioned something that struck a chord with me and you said you know this is up in in my district and my constituents and you hadn't heard that from yours and and I appreciate that and I know this is like a pie in the sky you know like oh yeah right because it's not zoned that way but if the center of Deltona had this nonsense getting ready to happen next to it where you could throw a rock to it or next to your ball fields there I'm the guy you want next to you saying heck no to it I just wanted you to know like like that's that's how close this is in Orman Beach and it is so inappropriate the location and we know what we're getting to next but I just wanted to put that out there to you I I respect that Troy and and if you recall if we rewind the tape right and when when this first be came before us when we were alerted to this I think I was right there instantly with you because I I I try to always any of my colleagues to default immediately in some to some level of saying if it's something important to my colleagues I'm going to go down that path do I finish in the same location with you it's it's the details so yeah I I you know if this were in the center of Deltona it would be a lot tougher decision for me I agree with that um and you know I don't know where I would land but it would be a lot tougher decision for me so um but I respect your position thank you Mr chair any other comments before I move to the last question okay we're going to move to the last question here which is legally a different situation this is a I2 land owner that has an application in process Bert Harris supplies but also equ what concept of Equitable stopple applies now I'm not an attorney so I'm going to talk about Equitable stopple in in sports language the ball has been kicked off okay the game is underway and one team says we w't change the rules well you really got to convince the other team in the ref or it's not going to happen so you're in a situation now where for the the actions that this applicant has taken has has put the game in Play and so it's a different situation uh and and that so I'd like to hear each of you thinking about that clearly if you want to hear more about EOL of stoppable uh the attorney will speak to that the extent of my legal knowledge there point of clarification Mr chair please um correct me from wrong clay if we said if the majority kind of leaned to option two as exempt doesn't that negate the fact that we should even talk about the next one because they already have I2 again it's a legal issue so Mike and Pao need to but the fact is is that um we've already talked about exempting those Parcels um so you they could proceed with an application for any use allowed in I2 because you've Exempted them from the changes in the language we're drill ing down to a more specific topic about a singular property that is in process which has a separate claim for lack of a better term in regards to the Equitable EST stopple and this is again not a soundproof way of addressing it it's just something that from a a a we have to as a staff I advise you of all your options to address potential lawsuits is that yeah I mean um I mean I think herb has described it correctly I know in February we were here and I think it was February 6th he had the agenda item to consider whether or not to have a moratorium an I2 and Council um did not do that and the discussion at the time was you know um if you do the moratorium it was an attempt to try to um one of the defenses could be if well has somebody applied for a conceptual site plan yet and if the answer was no then our argument would be the equable stopple would not apply herb is correct I mean equable stopple is just a fancy way is saying the courts will prevent a government from changing the rules of the game once the game is started Mike just for clarification though I'm not trying to be argumentative but if we said in the second one as a majority that if I two current I2 zoning property owners I think that would the same that would answer three so why go through three if we've already answered two saying continue business as usual it's up to council I think just want to hear from Council and their thoughts on it okay I'll stay silent Vice chair K presented because the situation is somewhat different and we want to make sure you're aware of that and you could respond I would have thought three would have been relevant if we had not agreed to number two that's why councilman Reinhardt thank you CH I guess the way I was looking at it is because of Equitable Equitable EST stopple the four properties there's no there's no application for whatsoever at this point correct none has been prior or none's been submitted before there's no indication anybody's submitting one now so that's why I was okay with the fact that you change that now because I think there's less liability with that now there's more liability with the one who has filed yes sir for that one piece of property that to me is a separate issue I understand what the attorney I understand what you're saying Dave but I look at it differently I guess it's perception separate question that's why I consider the the you know the four is one one issue and this one over here is the Big Daddy we'll talk about that I think you're just in the difference between equable stopple and possible Birch Harris liability um yeah I stole this mug uh from the kitchen just bed it so it's not mine maybe Paula's and you know if in this mug we have various p the pencils if every one of them was a use that you're per permitting in your zoning District equable stopple if you went to say you know what I want to take two of these out two two uses eable stole and just say no you can't remove those too you have to allow us to proceed with doing so for example we've already submitted our application but if you didn't have an okal stopple issue in Florida I mean Florida has some of the strictest private property detections maybe in the country with bir J Harris act and you did say you know what I want to remove or change to these uses I have no application in have no plans in the question would be potentially so they could they could could try to argue as well I want to be compensated by the government for the value you've taken away these two pencils so I think that's the difference between the one site versus the four which is I think consistent with what you just said yeah I was gonna say that fits exactly what I'm saying so okay all right thank you well let me ask you to respond to it and if your answer is the same your answer is the same can first okay thank thank you chairman um I appreciate it and I was talking to the the all council members but the four that we disagreed on on the second option and I really went with talking to councilman Santiago but I don't want to leave Mr Dempsey Mr Johansson um or Mr Robbins out of this and I think this next question um to Mr Dyer or Paulo Equitable a stole and the situation that we currently have because this Council decided to not go with a moratorium so then an application came in now we have more of a problem in my opinion so the $10 million that's sitting out there thank you Tom Lee thank you Governor de santis and thank you State Legislature and many others that were working behind the scenes could it be written in the deal to get this money there's no coming back against the county because I think that's important to talk about and then we can address this third question so I think the short answer is that you could end up in that situation if we were the ones the way that the $10 million were structured in the budget was Flagler Bard or valua could enter into a contract with a property owner or a company to site one of these facilities to be eligible for the $10 million the uses were named on what you could use it for restricted in this case if you I think what you're talking about is going a step further and say fine great you know if you are going to take the $10 million and move uh we would we don't want this problem again on this property be would you be willing to also address that use um so the answer is yes yeah I I think that would not necessarily be within the permitted uses for the 10 million but it could be a conversation all the same okay so and I I'll just end with this because we're going kind of long on this I know and I don't want my colleagues to get upset with me for that but council member Johansson I I love where he's going with talking to those property owners and see if we can get them on board that's great if they will but Don you live out in the country and by golly you and your neighbors would lose your mind if something like this were to pop up next to you you would lose your mind and and you should and Danny you live out in the country I think as well you know um I I just I just am trying one last time up here this afternoon to get one of you four to switch your your your mind on number two three question three no number two I want them on number two to switch that and then then we can talk about number three cuz then I'm hoping they'll go along with it on number three as well because none of us would want this in our backyard none of us would want hundreds of millions of gallons of fuel next to our kids playing our our parents where they put their head down at night to sleep none of us would want that no one wants that traffic impact if they were their first different story they weren't there first so it is incumbent upon us to fix this and by the way I am a huge property rights guy I got beat over the head in Orman Beach years ago I'm not going to bring up the project because I don't want to get beat up over the head anymore but I got beat up over the head about property rights in Orman Beach on Granada Boulevard for things that I I believed in so I'm a big property rights guy but I'm also a big safety guy I'm als I'm also a big what about your current property rights and your quality of life of where you live okay so I I just I'm hoping I can get one of the four to switch thank thank you V sh ksey I'd like you to answer question three and if you want to revisit question two you certainly can but uh with respect to the existing applicant uh and whether you would want to exempt them from a modified ordinance or whether you would not well I kind of going along with what David said I think two already took care of three so I guess so you you'd be stay with where you're at stay where I am yes counil San dieago thank you uh I'm gonna stay where I'm at but I like where you were going with that deal striking you spark my interest that's something if we ever get to that point that's a good tool so good suggestion but I'm going to stay where I'm at stay that hopefully it can be a negotiation so Mr sherff yeah I I want to I want to go back to Mr Ken real quickly on two to make sure mostly that staff understands what what I said I think we have four companies there now that are good neighbors and I don't want to hurt them from doing what they're doing would I exempt them from a change only if they agreed to not move their business to a more intensive amount what I exempt properties the one property with a Val valid ID application no I would not and I know that's problematic but it's been said really clearly that um it's in a it's in the wrong spot the people of valua County didn't have a say in the law no nobody on this Council had a say on the law I want to say now if that cost us some money they need protection and that's our responsibility so no I would not accept them uh company with a valid ID application thank you coun reard I stay with the the the four okay you know the the um comment I made before about that with this particular property um I know that there's some some stuff out there lack of a better word of of possibly hoping to move this and that's fine I don't know if I could exempt them I I don't think I could based on the fact that of the birj Harris situation for that one property because they have already filed the the conceptual plan site plan all right thank you C Robins can you uh restate that question please and articul would you want to exempt uh the owner of the I2 property that has an application in process from the modified ordinance or would you essentially grandfather them in so there's no possibility of legal challenge that you're taking away some of their property rights I I wouldn't want to go there okay and uh um I'd have to know certain things first to those that do want to go there what is your spending what is what is our spending SE what is our threshold that we're willing to throw at this okay how do we pay for it what kind of tax increase we're willing to put on people and uh to pay for it and uh and the reason I say that we had a case like this uh I think from Walmart some years ago uh here locally it went on for 10 to 14 years just going off the top of my head teams and teams and millions and millions and millions of dollars um and there's been several cases after that that that's a fact combined with when I read the the litigation that we got ourselves in on I'm a guy to challenge everything right I'll make an argument at anything for a very few times in my life I could say that it was undeniable unequivocally um we got ourselves in a legal bind I I I I I could not go back that knowing what I know and and what I uh read and believe but um uh we need to be careful about staying in our boundaries but the big thing is to get me to move uh from that spending spending threshold how are we going to pay for it if if uh this Council decides to do it and and lay the cards on the table because that is that is huge because I have 120,000 people in my district um knowing what we know the question is uh how's that fair to them thank you so what Financial Risk is the county taken how's it going to manage that Financial Risk councilman Johansson yep I'm sticking to uh the property rights agenda I think um uh that that changed I2 back in I think clay said 2006 2007 so they've had that they've had that expectation since then um and and uh I I believe that our staff the state the governor and our representatives are not only putting $10 million up to help us get there but I believe they're doing uh a lot of communicating a lot of coordinating uh in in their committees and uh when they're home to to to work on a an equitable solution and and I don't want to add all this risk um does that come at at anxiety for our our uh folks over by the uh uh bu the property it it does but I I think uh I think I ask for patience I I think everything's going to work out and and one of the things that that I think is also important is if you take the passion out of it and you look at where they want to put things and you look at what's there and the Public's aware this um because they pointed out to us what about the wetlands what about the traffic what about this what about that what about safety um when that site plan comes in and and those architecturals come in we start looking at them it may be a bridge too far uh we haven't heard from badier in in in any substance in in months maybe they'll never come back do they have an obligation to tell us they're done it would be nice but we'll never know so um uh I I think I think we keep it as it is I too and and continue working with our our powers at be to to make it the best possible solution elsewhere okay all right thank you very much on that couple couple questions um I think I only use 30 seconds my 90 before but this is really a question for uh for the legal staff everybody knows the position that we're in now we this was this zoning was created in 2006 on Hall Road for I2 U might have made sense in I I don't know what that neighborhood look like then pretty much everybody agrees it doesn't make sense now so my question is I think what um what we're really talking about here is once a governing body once a group of Representatives hear that something is no no longer works is no longer appropriate that there's nothing we can do about it um and I know Mike you're going to say well you're I think when we talked yesterday yeah you can do something you're there's just risk in doing it and at some point you have to eat the elephant in order to um protect the people you know I think you have you really have two silos of issues you know you have a property that doesn't have a say a site plan in has no plans to do anything differently and you're looking at changing um the permitted uses if you take you know some of those bundles of sticks out or pencils I think theoretically abs some other argument you could do it you just may have to compensate the proper owner for that equable stopple is different kind of like we we talked about in October once somebody made an application there's a body of case law that says it basically it's unfair unjust for the government to stop you from doing so they should be able to to continue so I see the four Parcels that we've talked about different than the one uh because the game has started arguably is what we would be faced with I think um and you know we could face an argument that uh you know I think in the last lawsuit where we won on the preliminary Junction there was an oal stockable element to it I mean so it it's not an unusual argument I would anticipate it thank you Don Dempsey yeah I just want to kind of answer Troy in his last comment and kind of parot what Jake was saying I I too am a property rights guy and uh no I wouldn't want something like this in my backyard but do I not want it in my backyard for Aesthetics reasons just because it's an eyesore or for safety reasons and if it's for safety reasons I think I'm the first one to even bring up on the council about the airport overlay and the issue with The Parting traffic and that Orman was one of the probably the most highly the highest airport for training in in Central Florida we have more airport activity than I think most other areas in maybe even in the country and so I'm not saying I think it's a great idea to be there um the existing permit or request but site plan but I want that to vet itself through the site plan process I think if it's dangerous like Jake says it'll become a bridge too far if it's dangerous I don't want something in my backyard if it's dangerous if it's an ey sword I just don't like to look at it I think that's another balancing between property rights and and looks as opposed to Danger I just I'm not necessarily convinced that it's ipsofacto dangerous because there's there's a big one right in the middle of Tampa um and I've flown over it numerous times and I don't see it to be an issue necessarily but this might be different there might be unique circumstance so that's why I wanted to vet itself out through the site plan process and not just because I just don't want it type of thing so that's why I'm against it but I am concerned about the safety and I do hope that the airport overlay um whoever is in charge of examining that for danger because of continuous traffic flying overhead of the fuel Farm I hope they closely look into that because that does concern me but I don't know if it's worth this type of Remedy well Don I can help you I can I can vet it for you right now I think it's dangerous I know you do and and I think you flying over one in Tampa I also think that's dangerous I'm I'm going to recommend I'm going to recommend you stop doing that Gan Reinhardt thank you chair um first off Mr Dyer I I agree I see the four properties different from from this one uh when we talk about bir J Harris or Equitable stopple um you know there's no site plan on those four there is a use right now um I like the fact that what you said we don't want to stop with what's currently going on but we need to Define it better like what I said before so it doesn't gain ground to that uh that being said Jake or I'm sorry councilman Johansson brought up the fact that the current company that has their conceptual site plan already submitted has no obligation to tell us that they're done and want to move on if we pray that happens there is no obligation however I guess that goes to my question if that does and we're able to to determine that is that something we can visit to change it then let me ask the the attorney or the manager to respond to that it would go back to question two then it would go back to two so it would it would could changeable sto yeah the Equitable stop would be over with and uh you'd be back to two yeah we're back to two Okay thank you I just want to clarify thank you there there could be some negotiation that would affect that use you know what the cost of that would be or the exchange I like my chances better with that than something that already has a application submitted so okay okay well we've heard you I think uh you know clearly everyone would like to find ways around this but with respect to uh not taking a violation of property rights basically so we'd like to move to our next item now you uh talked about another regulatory framework and to do that we need to uh talk about special exceptions so clay you're back up stealing from the earlier slide all of our zoning classes ifications are broken down into allowing uses by right as I referenced these are uses that as a property owner if you have vacant land you can come in and request a site plan subdivision and building permit for those uses that are allowed by right as long as you meet the technical requirements a permit will be issued for that conditional uses are slightly different in that specific criteria have been established be it the size setback maximum Building height Etc operational Li limitations those you would have to come in and staff would have to review to ensure that you're in compliance with those special criteria but there are no public hearings in front of the planning and Land Development regulation commission and there's no public hearings in front of the County Council it's a staff approval for verification of those criteria then lastly there's special exceptions and under the current rules a special exception is reviewed by staff for technical compliance to our standards in 72293 for special exception criteria there then it is presented to your planning and Land Development regulation commission at a public hearing where adjacent property owners are notified as well as posting of the property and a notice in the newspaper they will make a recommendation and it comes to you ultimately for a similar public hearing for final approval what you asked us us to look at was whether or not some of these uses that have to go through the special exception process is overkill for lack of a better term can that be some of these be changed so that they're permitted by right also can you look and see if there's any ways to make them more efficient we provided to you a table which list out all of the 115 identified special exceptions that we have in our zoning ordinance working from left to right and unfortunately it's hard to see with what's on the screen we identify what the use is the zoning classifications where they are allowed by write the zoning classifications where they're Allowed by special exception and then on the side is a recommendation by staff and so we basically break it down into four different options the four different options are allowed by write Allowed by conditional use we are introducing a new concept that some uses could go just to the planning and Land Development regulation commission for approval so you still have an added step of a public hearing but it reduces the council from being having to review those and allows for a quicker method so that some of these uses that staff feels needs to be vetted through the public but does not have to go through two public hearings with the understanding that any appeal of the property owner seeking it or any affected property owner or affected party could appeal to the County Council and then lastly is keeping things um as special exceptions that would have to go through both the planning and Land Development regulation commission and the County Council I do have to point out something that there was a question raised uh about on pages 3 of 11 and 9 of 11 on on that and it pertains to Motocross use and there's a little bit of confusion in regards to what we're talking about there I I need to clarify first and foremost there's a personal Motocross and then there's a commercial Motocross for lack of a better term if I am owning of property where I would like to be able to put my own personal track where it's for my family and my friends to utilize I'm not inviting the public I am not holding races I'm not holding events out there that is allowed by right as long as you're not impacting Wetlands as long as you're not taking out trees as long as you're not impacting storm water or other grading that is necessary that would be something specifically if you own property in our agricultural areas that you could coordinate with staff make sure you didn't need any of those permits go forward and build it no other issues going forward the commercial which is what we're talking about out here these are fullon open to the public available for racing events available for training activity available for testing those types of things something that you would expect at a standard commercial motocross track right now the recommendation from staff is to allow that by right in the A2 zoning which allows a 5 acre parcel and the B4 commercial area just to make sure yall were aware of it because it's bit confusing on how the tables reflect that we wanted to make sure where we're coming from this recommendation is coming from some of the uh comments we've heard from the council just wanted to make sure we were capturing what you were uh requesting us to do um so that is a summary of what's going on I believe we are now at the point where Mr Marlo is going to take you through the questions you have a couple clarifying questions uh first councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair Clay on the special exceptions correct me if I'm wrong when we go through a special exception process there's usually criteria that's also spelled out in order for them to come before us if they lack of a better term checked all the boxes is that correct yes sir uh there are some general criteria and then there are certain uses such as borrow pits such as uh air curtain incinerators those types of things which do have very specific criteria in regards to setbacks hours of operations Etc so I'll reflect back um I don't know maybe eight months ago or seven months ago we did with a special exception that we spent hours on I think for a dog kennel uh in someone's agricultural land that was a special exception hearing correct yes sir and I remember from the presentation from the applicant and their representative is you know her presentation was pretty clear these were the criteria check check check they met them all um and we I think we did Grant that um reason I'm asking that line of questioning is couldn't we take as an option special exceptions and turn them into I forgot the other category um we have the three categories conditional uses correct where again it's ultimately your zoning or it's ultimately your zoning ordinance if you don't want to have public hearings then you could put the criteria and and sit there and tell staff to go and monitor it make sure that they apply the code abide by the code apply the code that we have identified as to what's permissible or not I like to use those words instead right the code is out there in the public these are how we apply these things um apply the code staff based on the criteria so we could theoretically do that yes sir thank you Mr chair councilman Robbins thank you uh clay one one more don't start charging me for these questions okay um I noticed in some of um the special exception uses here's just one example agricultural products not raised on the premises there's some and and I had this question asked me I didn't know the answer but there's some zoning classifications there um is that pretty much going to be now all zoning classifications by a right because I don't see RR I don't see RA are those transitional a zonings covered under a the a zonings or right now that means that you uh well first of all RR is not a an a property in other words you cannot have a commercial Farm on there right what you're seeing is that the forestry resour all the A1 through four mh3 and those others are all areas that commercial farming basically true agricultural classification can occur and so what you're seeing is that if you raise it on premise you can do it by right right if you are bringing it onto the site you would not be able to do so and so what we're saying is make it so you can by right so no longer needing to go through a special exception within the agricultural areas for Bonafide Farms to be able to go in there and sell product not grown on site so ra or residential agriculture not an agricultural classification no sir or not not recognized it's again mainly for hobby Farmers those types of things they're the ones that are sized of a nature that they would not be able to get an A classification it's specifically more for folks that want to have a larger lot one to two and a half acres okay so you're saying ra I'm just trying to see how do I explain this so ra is under 1 to two acres in other words we have rural residential we have rural areas Rural and transitional agricultural these are zoning categories that we acknowledge that they're larger Lots they're upwards of one acre some and that yes they are rural in nature but they are not appropriate for agricultural commercial agricultural operations and so a agricultural operation is not identified as a permitted use what you see there in that second column is that forestry resource principal uh A1 2 3 4 mh3 oin transitional residential oin Rural and oin commercial uh Community residential those are all ones that have been identified where Bonafide for Farms can operate no problem anything else would not be allowed to have agricultural products for commercial use or commercial sale so on perfect sample my house getting ready to put up um yearling pens for weaning pens for for calvs it's ra I can do that under a why wouldn't ra be on there because I got asked that by people on old samula people on Samsula drive people all down through that that core Samsula area residential agriculture I mean it can be one acre it can be four acres uh it could be split zoned so that's what I'm trying to I'm I'm trying to wrap my head around okay that today we're not addressing what uses should be allowed in the ra and I don't mean to put off but this is but if you want that done you would have to tell us to come back and look at the nonprime agricultural in other words the r r and r a if you would want us to look at that to expand that to include the availability of commercial agricultural in there because right now there it's not you can you can have your own onsite as long as it's not pertaining to stuff that's for sale and basically mass production right I just didn't understand it so that that clarified it also too clay can you talk about the ones um and how far I don't know if I agree with the the cluster and zero lot line subdivision the 7234 can I had some constituents reach out about that can you explain or clarify that yes sir currently um cluster and zero lot line are allowed by W in the R1 through four and R6 mh6 oin areas as well as Southwest residential the one area that is required to be a special exception is a rural residential we're recommending that it would go to by right so it would no longer require a special exception for a cluster subdivision in the RR zoning and that would be a permitted use by wri so it just kind of conform with the other R RS that are already allowed the mobile home 6 yep so what other protections do our folks have because I can see where that depending on how far that goes I I can see an issue possibly um what kind of protections do our people have for um um I don't want them to get caught off guard you know what I mean and well basically if if you feel that cluster subdivisions are incompatible with anything that would be adjacent to an RR zoning then you would just simply identify that it should not be identified as a permitted by right and you would want that to go remain a special exception because otherwise it's a staff approval so it's just that one zoning category RR yes sir the rest are already there okay sorry okay got it thanks okay I'd like to deal with your staff recommendations in four sections the first group that they represented 60 uses now be permitted by right I know you would like to talk about every one of these in great detail but I'm asking this uh if there's anything in that list of 60 that you have some concern about like you just say it staff will revisit talk with you do whatever thinking they need to do uh so we're not having to get concurrence among the council today is simply if you say there's an item here I'm concerned about as councilman Robbins just did staff will then note it and revisit it so uh I can go around if you have one or more doesn't matter uh tell me I'm concerned about these particular uses being given permitted by W uh and councilman Reinhardt can I start with you how do I know you were going to start with me saw me looking at one that's it so we just had a recent issue with a uh Campground if you will with boating and whatnot just recently what we we talked about and this one on here shows by right okay and I guess I would like to discuss that further that was one that just jumped out at me all right um and I know and I'll go around twice just because I know it's a lot lot of items here and um there was another one but I'll wait okay thank you Council Robins any additional ones you have concerns about being permitted by r no just those two and in an opportunity to sit down and and and look at the uh the a or the green belt language um to possibly expand it to that RR and that that that ra because you'll see those zoning classifications all through these agricultural areas um and that wouldn't be out of place and be be really consistent and then two just maybe educating us a little bit I know how complex that 72- 304 and that section is um clay knows it I don't so I'd just like to make sure we see ya on that um but other than that uh I think that's what I'm going to stay with for now councilman Johansson yeah if if we look at uh Pulp and Paper manufacturers and I2 uh we want that by right um I can we pull that out and have that discussion with the I2 conversation that we uh talked about earlier um I I I'm not saying it would be as contentious as our current situation but instead of planes crashing and killing people we'd be talking about smelly pulp so I I just want to have that conversation all right thank you councilman Dempsey and I I know you have no interest in Motocross we're GNA come back to it so anything else in this it at list I mean it's if if you ever drive up towards Savannah you can't help but get a whiff on the way up so I I agree by right it might be something worth discussing and the I to discuss it doesn't help that you have to drive to South through South Carolina first so you're already pretty upset yes um that's all for this round okay last chair any items out of the 60 you'd like to the you know the several that I've heard I'm I'm fine with those coming back but and I appreciate the Genesis of where this came from to be more efficient and effective I've not had a constituent ask for this okay I've not had anybody say you know we want we want you to streamline this process so that that there's less eyes looking at this um in fact I've had a few reach out to me and say sort of your job you know that's why I I voted for you to do that okay you know I've had people in the past I've asked them you know what do you think about this or that and they've told me that's why I elected you to make that decision for me so I so General comment you're not your with a whole approach okay very good councilman sanago yeah I'm I I'm I'm okay with what's been said and moveing forward but uh Troy man we're on the opposite sides today brother I mean because you know I I think to me I just want to put this on the table is um I think this is just a reeval valuation of efficient good government right and you know I think what I said earlier is you know all of our ordinances are published so we decide on the rules of the game what's permitted what's not print it let everybody know these are the rules of the game what you want to do and abide by them we don't like it we change the rules for everybody going forward so that's that's why I I I like the efficiency as as I don't want to put anybody in a box but I think most of us are good mostly efficient government thought processes and we've done a lot since we've all been together I think this is just a continuation of that and um advertising it holding everybody to the same standard that's all I look at and then we have a good debate on what the uses are that's I like you know so I'm okay with it and chairman if I can I'll just say you know it's one of the things that that there's a lot of things but one of the things that I admire about you is that you do try to keep us on point streamlined keep the process going I just haven't had anybody ask me for it is all that's the only that's my only big thing is I've not I've not had people say Hey you know um I I want I want this streamlined for people with their with a right so that they don't have to come and have a public hearing about it you know and I'll just had this I know you're trying to get this going along because it's good dialogue you know you know what convinced me for it was the dog uh kennel thing that we did that convinced me that we needed this because it was a mess and the applicant did everything they were supposed to do and I'll just say us as a governing body made that mess when that person checked all those boxes and we would have been sued and they would have won if they had been failed and what's interesting about you and me being on opposite sides of this is that that passed you were for it I was against it you know Mr chairman I I agree with the uh the exceptions that have already been voiced but I I have a question one of one of these listed is Circus headquarters do we actually have land where [Laughter] Circus well we uh are there any other lands that could be used as a circus well right next to matter of fact yes immediately south of our Public Works compound there was a large area that they used to do the uh storage of the circus animals and circus equipment over there by the new SunRail YES station right across from the sun rail circus so that is still zone for circus they're just not there well it could be a use right it's an IND it was used on the industrial property okay I used to trap EES across over to the store over there it was yeah the rubber man was things you learned I kind of missed the circus but um one other that I would like to add to the list that I I just think we should look more into and that's the farm firm worker living facilities just because I've been involved in that and I know it was it was zoned for it and the it's kind of like what we were just talking about with I2 the surrounding neighborhood that didn't know that was um it it really infringed on on some of their property rates so I just think we need to be careful with that one okay second round Mr onard anything else oh go ahead oh Jake Johansson I'm sorry I didn't see real quick I just want to clarify uh as well and and kind of uh add a little bit to I think what Mr Santiago said is we've we've been taking a a measured Approach at at everything we we did uh uh we looked at a few ordinances we changed them we updated them we've updated our our or at least talked about and and and plan a future for roads and bridges we're talking about um many things this is just another review of something that hasn't been looked at for years and years and years which we found ourselves reactive in one situation and we're like let's take a look at the whole thing see what we can do so uh I I think that's important and and the the the basic feel for me for this Collective body is less regulation more freedom and and even I'm running cross on that every once in a while but but on my trips home I'm I'm like less regulation more freedom uh we all we were all around for Reagan and and that's that's where we we put our heads 90% of the time so that's what I'm sticking with I I think that's just the way we're doing it anything else you like that I'm sorry just two seconds um and I and I agree with that keep the good review it keep the good get rid of the bad you know we we're all consistently trying to find ways in our budget to shrink it and and this would be a great opportunity to possibly do that through relaxing these some of these uh regulations if we identify any lower the budget and uh you know save some money wherever we can so uh that's it Council Reinhardt any other thank you yeah one other um but first off and and I agree Mr Johansson less regulation more freedom you know we look at some of these by right and you could say well never was a problem until it is a problem and that's why we're looking at it and and with respect to uh Mr Kent's comment I I you're right you know I haven't had con constituents reach out to me about any of these either but we didn't I'm sure have anybody reach out about other things that have been discussed previously so it isn't a problem until it is a problem so that being said you know uh it less regulations more freedoms unless it infringes on others that are Property Owners as well putting something next door to something you know it infringes on their rights so you know we brought up uh uh the poultry issue we brought up uh circus grounds and things like that that could infrige on neighboring properties one other one was uh tanneries just out of curiosity and just for discussion I'm not saying I'm I'm totally OB in to it but I'm just saying it's something that that I would like to to discuss a little further thank you Mr Robins anything else you'd like to okay councilman Johansson anything else okay I'm gonna wind up with councilman DC so Mr chair any others on this good sanago I'll just add this is why the conversation is is good because we we review them and we set out here's the rules of the game right that's what I like that we're doing we're reviewing the rules of the game and they apply to everyone going forward until we change the rules whenever that is last sh anything else in terms of this particular item you'd like to see wake up I'm good I just I'd like to just kind of agree with what Jake and everybody else is saying I think we're all basically property rights proponents I think we have all been pretty consistent on that and uh I'll just say from experience I know in the Leon Springs whenever the county I believe just rezoned everything up the corridor on 17 to B4 what an impact that had on just the values of the property and I think not only is this respecting property rights of property owners but also it makes these properties more valuable because I could tell you if there's somebody coming in town looking to open a tennis club or a theater or something like that and they're looking at either opening up in seminal County or Lake County or Valia County and they're like oh wait a minute during their due diligence they're going to see that don't have any red tape or nearly as much red tape to go through in Valia as they would in maybe a surrounding County that this makes us more appealing so hopefully this will draw more industry or business any type of business to the area just by cutting the red tape so to speak so yeah that's all I have Clay Drew your attention uh to one issue in there that's Motocross currently as it is written commercial motoross is allowed by right uh and i' like to have a discussion if you want to do that uh or Not by right it means if I've got 20 acres and I want to put one in I have the right to do it commercial we're not talking about personal you can do personal now without that but I'd like to hear the perspective of Council on whether you want to maintain commercial Motocross by right in a A2 or B4 categories the only ones we're talking about I can't hear you oh I thought I'm sorry I misunderstood clay then play correct because we are planners we have to get into the nitty-gritty details if you look on page three it talks about the zoning categories A2 and B4 which right now these commercial Motocross would be uh special exceptions staff has identify them as switching to being by right um but the one for B4 is for bicycles only not motorized so what we're really focusing in on is the A2 property which are agricultural properties 5 Acres minimum do you want to allow those to be uh operated for commercial Motocross without a a special exception and a staff approval only or another way question do you keep it as it is currently which is currently required special exception so so I do want to keep it as it is as special exception do you want to change it to by right sanago let me start with you we've got two people with clarifying questions I'm sorry I'll just Dempsey I'll just I I mean because everybody knows this is my um baby so to speak because I've been in the sport for 50 years um and I'll be the first one to say I wouldn't want a commercial motocross track in my backyard I mean I can just tell you that because it's it's it is noisy and we've heard the people when we had the the landfill issue um the way this is written A2 really isn't even practical because A2 is only five acres so to speak uh it could be more but if you're going to open up a track it's got to be on a much bigger piece of property out you know we're still doing our due diligence looking for alternate sites for the track and we're find you know hopefully we'll find a place that's very secluded no neighbors I think maybe hopefully we possibly may have found something I don't know but I if I was King for a Day I'd like to see this more for A1 you know the bigger tracks of land where it's really only practical I wouldn't want to see a commercial motocross track in a 5 acre subdivision you know that no you can't do that that's not fair to the neighborhood um especially by w i I would like to see it if we could change it to A1 and make it by Maybe by right or at least by you know this the way it used to be special exception I mean because you have to be cogniz of the neighbors A1 have require special exception yeah and I mean and I think but that's all for commercial now everything as it exists now would stay the same as far as personal use sure you're talking about commercial 40 bikes weekends stuff like that yeah I mean that's only fair okay guys someone else have a comment Mr chair take your handson it's a clarifying question for clay um would a commercial Motocross facility you know I have a allowed hobby um uh do does a commercial motorcross Facility have uh uh noise level standards just standard noise level we currently have in uh chapter 50 for everybody yeah so if they make too much noise they five acres 20 acres 100 acres we can we can catch them for a coach compliance issue yes got it so so we have an existing regulation that would would give the public a a venue for taking care of it if it was too loud yes sir yep and and if if by right uh they they put a 40 bike outfit in a 5 acre lot and traffic's affected they they have to meet all the requirements for having that commercial property used for that event right we we have things in our process for site plan approval that bring forth traffic bring forth noise bring forth all those things Wetland environmental standards all that stuff so by right doesn't mean they just come and get their permit and build it they still have all those wickets they need to get through to to build successfully yes sir they would have to go through the site plan process and there would be an evaluation of traffic Wetlands storm water uh water sewer all that stuff got it thank you CL councilman dse's proposing alternative stuff here I'd just like to speak to it as or as he just addressed it councilman Sago well I was okay I'm sorry I was just going to say if if that's the case I mean I'm not saying by right I'm really am trying to cut down on because that's been my big thing all along is there's no place for people to ride in this County and I think that might have been part part of the problem is getting the zoning to open up a commercial facility we don't have any place commercially for children to go ride their little dirt bikes so so for you it's more appropriate zoning and and it's not either a more expansive zoning as by right okay um that would be good because I just think by having more zonings by right that just makes our County more appealable and it preserves people's property rights but A2 is that's I mean that's a small piece of property for that G I agree with Don okay chair keep it the way it is with special permit I mean special exception and I would just also say you know you learn things all the time and I'm shocked to learn that this could happen on someone's private property in vucha County currently and because you're right Don and I'm pleased to hear you talk about the noise level we had a situation in Orman Beach where a gentleman came in and bought some property he lived in city limits and he built a track and he just thought he was going to be able to run it anytime he wanted he's a little out in the country well the people that live out there were like I like my quiet place in the country and all of a sudden this isn't quiet anymore because you and your friends are out here tearing it up I think the lingo the cool kid uses brap is that right bra something like that so I'm just surprised we do that but that's not what you're asking I'm just talking now thank you special exception Mr chairman repeat the qu there have been so much input I want to make sure I'm actually answering your question well the question was would you want their uh commercial Motocross by right uh in A2 is is the on the proposal uh Council Demps is proposed not by A2 Maybe by A1 fix by realistic you have to have larger tracks to do that you're not going to do it a 5 acre track but uh the question specifically was by commercial Motocross in an A2 zoning not not by rate I think it needs to be a special exception okay thank you special exception Robins along the same lines I I i' just caution us because there's a lot of 5 acre tracks and that would I know that would create a problem for District 3 clay what what's the next size up from A1 is that like FR or RC or what is it if the council will entertain what we can do is this what we're what I'm hearing loud and clear is that the idea of identifying a commercial motocross track is something you want to see done but you want to see it done correctly so that means in my mind coming up with specific conditions such as minimum lot size minimum areas those types of things that could be wrapped into if you want to make it easier to permit a conditional use again remember you have that option as a conditional use we can put together the criteria so that that way it's identifying not only the uh zoning that the this would be allowed in but the conditions that would be acceptable and it would be a staff approval not going through a public hearing process of a special exception we can start putting that language together and again please realize everything you're telling us we have to go back and start the ordinance modification we have to do Outreach we have to do public hearings at the pdrc and to y'all so by that point in time y'all will have had this thing vetted through a variety of different folks you'll be able to see what recommendations are happening and so we hear what you're saying and I think we can accommodate your intent which is acknowledge the need for something like this and the availability of it but make sure you're doing it in the right location on the right size parcel it's not going to have an impact on adjacent properties question quick question for clay if this went to a special exception what kind of public notification is required again it's uh published in the newspaper it's posted on the property so that the you've seen the basically 2 by two uh orang signs and we mail notice to the adjacent Property Owners within 500 ft no just adjacent Property Owners just those that are immediately AB budding and across the street okay Elman Johansson we we'll be voting on this uh uh as it comes and it sounds like we have h a majority right now so uh I can go either way I'd like then turn to the next staff recommendation which is about moving 12 uses to conditional asking the same thing of any of those 12 think of as consent I'd like to pull it for further discussion uh at this point if you're okay just say I'm okay with those 12 let me start with the vice chair if I may before we start uh councilman Johansson has a question I think I have a bunch of questions I'm sorry sir um I'll start at the top uh back backyard chickens um again why why would there be a a limitation of five chickens no roosters uh we currently had a restriction of what's differentiating a commercial poultry operation from a hot farmer or and so the magic number was four at one point in time when this issue came up it was raised to five and basically it's just a carry it's trying got it I have 10 or 12 I'm selling them or giv away or something we actually had a I remember the chicken day yeah that and got it therapy has got most of it out but yeah we had quite a long all right discussion about it fair enough um uh going down to fertilizer sales re retail and and wholesale um why why conditional is that because of the danger it's mainly because it's a commercial operation if you look at the zonings that those are allowed in those are agricultural okay so it's because they're commercial and you're just covering it got it um U mobile fuel dispensing vehicles um they get health certificates from uh the health department yeah to operate this is the ordinance yall approved about a year and a half ago in response to the county or to the state's mandate on how we handle mobile food vending Vehicles so this is this is a recent one what we they still have to go through the state to get properly licensed what we did is we went through and identified the the criteria that we would apply to ensure that uh the operation of the basically food trucks are not going to have a negative impact on Commercial properties and adjacent residential areas and we also uh this Council and the pr excuse me the prior Council also wanted to make sure that this was included for agricultural lands so okay um okay thank you very much one more question about the food trucks um that they it requires a health department license do they have inspections like a restaurant does yes sir okay because I know you we've had issues in the land and I know it's been difficult for your office to deal with is that partly because it's it's tied to the health department no sir there there are two separate issues the health department is looking in and making sure that the food truck is clean meeting the minimum requirements for a commercial kitchen the issue is that these things are mobile they show up they Park they operate on the weekends we get the complaints we follow up there's not a mobile they're typically not there Monday through Friday said then we have to go and do a special assignment for catching them and basically it's the um the fine goes against the property owner who may or may not know that the food truck was going there so that that's the issue with a lot of the food trucks the people who are willing to cooperate with us and go through the process it we find it pretty straightforward it's just make sure you're parking so you're not obstructing parking fire lanes and that if you're going to have table benches or something along those lines they're not going to be in any of the landscape buffers or anything else uh so I would say it's it's good for those who want to follow the rules on the weekends it it is a cat and mouse game from a code enforcement perspective part of the part of the condition I think for the County ordinance is that they have to move at night they can't stay overnight correct I just want all the council to be aware of that to I I don't know if they like that or or not but that is a condition that that we made uh Matt Reinhardt thank you chair one more question about the food truck because that was the only real issue I saw in there currently some of the Cities when there's an event they get an event uh they apply for a special event or whatever and they had the food truck present their fire department does an inspection of the vehicles prior to the event even starting does the county do that yes sir when you have when we have a special event special event fire so that's like an added health department inspection if you will on top of what the health department already conducts as well correct correct okay thank [Music] you sh any comments on uh these 12 items no thank youman Dempsey nothing nothing nothing Mr chairman I'm good nothing I would just like to put it put it emphasis um Council and Clay you know Mr Johansson brought up some good things that are agricultural related and just breezing over um this you know a lot of my district um is agriculture you know all over but uh Florida green belt law mandates that only lands that are used primarily for Bonafide agriculture be classified as agriculture Bonafide Agriculture purpos and good faith commercial agricultural use I.E land that is being used for agricultural purposes with the intent to make a profit um I would just make make sure to hit on a little bit what he said that uh we differentiate you know for profit hobby farm and the same thing with the zoning um if they meet the classifications it really says nothing in here about zoning so um that's it cman Johansson anything not okay let's turn to the next item which is 32 uses for plrc major change here is pdrc will be the final uh I was always a appeal process but it normally would go back through to them uh and I'd like you to look at those 32 and see if there's any you'd like to pull out for discussion Mr chair could I begin with you uh yeah it's a long long list um we'll go around a couple of times if we need to so go ahead Elman Johansson yeah um let's look at um uh the the First full page there couple couple down pre premises other than Hotel restaurant congregate living wor meals lodging blah blah blah blah bottom line is uh Seven Persons unrelated to the owner um why do we come up with Seven Persons people do we know that's pertaining to boarding houses where um they are doing that and uh the definition of family and your zoning ordinance there's six people not otherwise related by blood blood marriage or adoption by Blood marriage or adoption so in other words it's tied to the definition of what is a family so so can I have my family of 15 over yes yeah okay even though they're not siblings or my wives or anything like that correct okay um U well you never know right let's go down to uh 9 of 11 or page 1-9 um mobile fuel dispensing Vehicles again um on agricultural or construction sites for less than one hour is that is that exempt from going to plr DC based on New State Statute no sir those th that is tied into the ordinance yall adopted again and we said less than one hour yes sir okay well that was in the ordinance if you want to make those changes now is the time to identify it yeah I'm I'm identifying it I guess yeah I me the idea was these are the standard roach coaches that we've seen at all construction sites yeah I I I got that um no the idea was that they would come in be able to so if I got half a crew that goes from 12 to to one and half a crew that goes from one to 2 they got to leave they can't stay from 12:00 to 2: if you want us change the hours we'll be glad to yeah I'm I'm interested in that okay we'll look at that and then uh Motocross courses uh couple down from that bicycles only um this is the scrier error this should not have been here they got it thank you and oh no that's the next one thank you um and and other than that I support everything else thank you very much Mr chairman you like to go would like to I like to ask a question on what he just said on the Motocross courses the um A2 it this is just plrc it doesn't come here no this was a duplication unfortunately there was a mistake in how this table was put together this is the same exact seen earlier and so what I'm hearing from y'all is this is that the personal is is okay the commercial again we're going to be looking at trying to make that as a conditional use subject to specific size and performance standards okay uh nightclubs pardon me yeah yes sir um what we're saying is that right now it is allowed by right in all the commercial zonings which are B3 4 5 6 7 and8 as well as the Southwest Commercial and the ocv which is the oin commerci commercial Village and oin um multif Family Village or mixed use Village excuse me those are required to go through a special exception we're saying that they should just go through the pdrc for the approval of that special exception is there any special regulations for adult entertainment nightclubs sir um that's not handled by your zoning ordinance that's a separate ordinance which has restrictions on primarily the serving of alcohol associated with anyone who's um engaged in sexually or oriented bit sexually oriented businesses how many zoning categories can that be in um if I remember correctly two okay anything else not yet councilman Robbins anything from here okay councilman Reinhardt oh thank you um these are just for plr DC they wouldn't come to us at all that's process would stop okay so I I have a few just for discussion and and we'll see um airports we just had the issue about the campground boat docks and that could have gone either way so that's why I want that included as well for discussion um glue factories and then the last is actually two uh cement plants and rock Crushers and the reason why I bring that up is um when I worked for the short time for new samna there is a Rock crushing plant over there more complaints were received from the neighbors of that area than anything we ever received out there was the noise and the dust the actual concrete dust and the requirements that they had to spray down stuff and and they weren't weren't adhering to it so um I would like a a further discussion on those two as well I'm sorry to give you a long list there clay but no I just make sure I and I Mayan not be in agreement we're not voting on it it's obviously just for discussion thank you so let me make sure I I have your comment correctly is that airport airports you would not necessarily you want us to look to see if perhaps we should keep it coming to County Council yes sir okay boat docks and campgrounds okay and that's in light of recent recent uh a recent approval that we did okay and then uh cement plants and Rock crushing as well as I'm sorry glue factories as well we had issues with fiberglass companies and the odor and whatnot that comes are uh from that the glue factory could be the same got it thank you thank you sir Sago Jake Johansson had a question okay he didn't have Council Le 32 any you'd like to have further discussion on in the future the ones that are being pointed out from my colleagues those are still going to come before us right we're just saying hey talk talk about these later right so that being the case we will address these later I'm okay with the list Vice May thank you um Sawmills slaughter houses glue factories said that after slaughter houses Hog Farms nightclubs heliports and helipads there's my list clay thank you councilman Dempsey anything you'd like to out list list of 32 have further discussion on um yes the rural event centers the venues rural event centers yes yes sir we're just talking about wedding venues um in the rural areas or what exactly we that was the driving force behind it because we did have properties that were zoned A1 but were not Bonafide agriculture so if you do not have the classification from the property appraiser as a Bonafide a you cannot utilize the provisions of agrotourism to operate your wedding venue so therefore we put this in place as a way for those who could not get or did not want to get that ad class to be able to utilize their properties for a wedding venue but it also ties to any kind of social basically I wouldn't say convention center but like Event Center where you could have weddings caneras uh birthdays those types of things would horse Arenas would horse Arenas be considered a a right to use or it has to go through this classification I have to double check on that I it within the agricultural air zoning you can get a uh you can have writing Stables when you start turning into an event center such as like a rodeo or a Equestrian Center I have to look and see whether or not we allow that by special exception or I have to say I have to determine if it's also uh protected by the Right to Farm Act uh I can tell you that the recent changes over I would say the last 10 years to the Right to Farm Act have opened up a considerable number of uses as quote unquote AGR tourism and so we need to make sure that we're uh not in violation of that okay and then the other there's just another typo on what is that one of 10 says Speedways RAC tracks motorized vehicles forward SL Motocross I don't know if that was a typo too if that should be stricken out yep that'll be worked out okay thank you um and I think that's it that's all I have guys for now this J anything else no I think that with everybody's list I'm good with it okay thank you so let's turn to the last thing there are 11 uses staff are recommending you keep as requiring special exceptions uh are you okay with that list is anyone you'd like to move out Mr rard you go I was waiting to see no I'm good with this okay cman Robbins good cman Johansson yeah I I had a question but I may have resolved it if can we look at uh can we look at the last 11 of 11 hazardous waste transporter facility council is that up in plr DC as well Council that would stay with Council I thought I saw recomend stay with counil yeah I thought I saw it up here earlier all right I'm good thanks councilman Dempsey Vice chair why is glue factories on this one too do you see that yeah so should glue glue factories maybe shouldn't have been under plrc is that right clay uh let me double check okay I raised it anyway a couple of us brought it up so good I'm good with the list okay counil sanago good okay Mr chair just quick question do we have at least one of these in every category or there some of them non-existent they're just a category but we don't have a glue factory we had one I'm sure at some point we will have one at some point you're saying okay I'm I'm good with the list I would just some of them are pretty unusual I just wondered if if they're already here cuz I'm not aware of them but I'm good with the list list it should get Council approval good all right thank you all very much for that we'd like to now turn to the next item uh about permits and so clay you're up again yes sir this is the question about what can we do to change our current regulations to reduce redundancy of federal and state aspects and do we have any latitude with some of these changes um I'm just referencing uh the community planning act that's where uh all cities and Counties have to come up with a comprehensive plan part of the comprehensive plan is that you have to have Land Development regulations and zoning regulations so there is a state mandate to have some form of zoning some form of Land Development standards uh the county Charter uh has an establishment to require minimum environmental standards um those are um identified in the charter and they are implemented through chapter 50 those are the standards that apply both inside the cities as well as the county um but let me make sure it's clear on how that's implemented the cities are to either adopt by reference or adopt their own ordinance that incorporate those minimum standards they can be more restrictive but they cannot be less restrictive than what the county has established and that includes wetland tree preservation storm water we look at the other regulatory framework uh the one that a lot of folks focus on do I need a building permit the Florida building code came into place in 2002 in order to assure consistency across all 67 counties and all the cities for uh minimum building code requirements and as such we as a county have very limited opportunities for changes you can propose a uh local Amendment um those are very difficult to prove you have to show that there's something unique and completely different from a building P code perspective for that particular jurisdiction and it has to be approved by the Florida building commission similar situation with the Florida fire prevention code uh your zoning ordinance is really where you have the greater latitude and as well as with the Land Development regulations and let's clarify zoning talks about what you can do on your property it takes your broad-based land use that you get in your future land use and says okay this particular piece of residential land can now be used for R4 so you're subject to the R4 dimensional standards and permitted uses the Land Development regulations tell us how you're putting in your storm water how you're protecting the trees how you're putting in utilities the roadways all of those things along those lines so what you're your staff did and for those who are looking uh working from left to right on your uh screen we identify the code and that's specifically the chapter within the county code of ordinances we identify the topics is it required by federal is it required by state then we also jump into local requirements is it something that's contained in the comprehensive plan or is it something from the charter that we have to mandate this last bullet on this page I really want yall to understand this because this is the exact opposite of what you're telling us to do and I I I want yall to be prepared because over the next I would say year or year and a half we're going to see that FEMA is going to be requiring of us to do more monitoring of properties within the flood plane after hurricanes in and Nicole they have come and inspected a lot of areas our colleagues down in Lee County actually got shut out of the flood insurance program for a couple weeks until they were able to work out the details with FEMA on how they were going to address their concerns um so I just want to make sure you're aware that when we come forward and we're talking about the fact that we have to establish a flood plane permit it's because we're getting uh heat from FEMA to ensure that we are following through with the substantial damage substantial improvements and trying to make sure that if properties have to be brought up to code they are brought up to code as quickly as possible um again we were trying to seeing duplications of requirements and those types of things what we've identified and some of this is low hanging fruit as one of the council members said to us these are some of the quick and easy things that we can do and it also summarizes where we're at um permits for fences right now we do require a permit for it the Florida building code does not require a fence permit except if it's used for a barrier for a swimming pool so if you just are fencing in your backyard it's really for verification of zoning requirements if you want to do away with that we can do away with that and so therefore it would be up to the individual property owner to check with the county to verify that the fence that they're playing to put up or in is in compliance with the zoning and we would basically seek compliance through code enforcement uh we're working through some of the sheds uh depending on when you looked at our codes at some point if it was under 120 square feet a permit wasn't required and some of these uh areas the codes have changed so we will be looking to see what we can do and do is must allow the placement of sheds to the maximum extent without permits or additional um permitting process the criteria for variances you've already told us we're working through that ordinance we're changing it so it's strict adherance to the five CR criteria is no longer going to be in place but adherence to a majority of the criteria this is an item that was brought up in regards to some of the responses for uh our requirements for Planned unit developments and special exception or excuse me and as as it relates to natural vegetation retention areas and open space and those requirements uh this is something I believe that if so directed we can meet with the valo council responsible development and come up with some alternatives that will be worthwhile um this is an issue that staff has identified to you uh this Council and previous councils acknowledged the importance of accessory dwelling units as a way to assist people with either providing for affordable housing as well as dealing with aging parents and uh kids that just won't leave and so um what we've discovered is that the permitting of adus we um identified them in our impact fees as a standalone so there's a fee charged specifically for an accessory dwelling unit when people get that bill they kind of have sticker shock whereas if they just did an expansion of their home they may not be facing that same level of charge so we felt it was appropriate to eliminate that as a specific use in the impact fees and just treat it as an expansion of the principal structure then um other code changes that we're working on the exempt subdivisions to five lots that has been uh we're working through it with your planning Land Development regulation commission that should come to fruition shortly uh shipping containers again it seems very straightforward unfortunately it's uh converting a metal box into a habitable commercial structure we have to make sure that we're addressing it both from a building code and from a a zoning regulations that also should be coming to you shortly um and then lastly we have rest uh U basically redone what are restrictions on parking of trucks and trailers we are aware of the concerns that were identified about the size of the vehicles and we're still working through those issues as well I also want to talk about procedural improvements because I know y'all get on a daily basis oh my God it's taken forever to get my permit through volia County what can you do to improve it we acknowledge that we've had some staffing problems and actually through your approval of various uh contracts for uh assistance through our planning consultants and use of our uh building Consultants we've been able to do so to the point that I found out um just the other day our new Land Development regul uh manager was able to get a list of 400 applications that were queued up down to 50 over the last month so we're making a a very strong committed effort to get the Staffing or at least the Consultants there to help us so one of the things that we're going to see is that open counter again uh George and Suzanne authorized us to bring it forward to it to yall y'all have approved it this will be an electronic on budsman uh council member Joe Hansen was asking me about what can we do to help our interface with the public so they can do due diligence so they can make the decisions quicker this will be if you have someone who is internet Savvy and able to utilize that software it will answer a considerable number of the questions as I talked about the expansion of support staff for uh uh in Our Land Development Planning and Zoning I cannot speak uh more highly of Lou Paris and ricardi over at Economic Development they've been lock working with us to come up with not just a non budsman but also a conci urge service and it's being applied also to our uh code enforcement efforts as well so they are doing a great job we recently updated connect live over 90 almost 95% of our applications in our building division are online so the application wizard that's been added to our connect live software is going to make things a lot better we've already heard initially from some of the members of the VB about how it's helping out with them you just approved the an efficiency study with plant Moran they're going to be coming in we have a call this week to kick off that project by December they will identify how we can improve our process and I the reason why you see this contract is that many times you get caught in your own system and you can't jump above it to see where you're going and this is where we need that help and then lastly enra a committee that was started with the previous Council and continues to operate today has already made some recommendations on low impact development that we're finalizing they've also worked through their storm water discussion with Tad kbear and Ben Bartlett at our La their last meeting and then also they're nearly complete with all their recommendations on plan on tree preservation and Wetland preservation so those will be coming to you as well so now back to her obviously there's a lot going on like the uh question here is you don't St to move ahead with these actions let me just go I address any one of them if you would uh if you're concerned about it otherwise say I'm okay with them moving forward and all of them councilman Robins got to start with you these four you okay to move them all or you want some further look at anyone of them I was trying to pull up the the master list you mind circling back with me sure do all right cman Johansson uh I have no problem with the four okay councilman Dempsey no problem with the four last chair yeah um I I appreciate this and Clay I just want to say you know as long as it's not for a pool the fence permit which it isn't that accessory shed under 400 square foot I thought that was great as well because you have people screaming and yelling about the permit process for that I like that and the other two I'm fine with as well councilman San dieago good job staff on capturing what we've been saying for several months I like it thank you chairman just uh one quick question probably for clay adus does how does this affect the impact fee you will probably see a reduction in the amount collected for adus because the fee is currently a heal Hefty one um it will we will still be collecting an impact fee it will just be treated as an expansion um as if yall remember uh when we came forward with the update to the impact fee we started breaking down single family residential by size 15 under 1500 square ft 15 to you know 2500 25 to3 Etc so what it will do is that if the addition of the Adu is treated as an addition it will just simply bring it up to either the next impact fee category so it could be for example a difference of paying $3,000 for a standalone Adu whereas paying for the expansion is going to be $500 okay yeah I'd like my issue with that I think the adus were a uh part of the intent was to help with Workforce housing affordable housing um and and they're actually working um except for the impact fee so I'd like to find a way um to get rid of the impact fee on adus all together so that it it does help uh build more affordable housing in that fenses and sheds I'm happy to see that go so I'm I'm good with the rest of the list I'm sorry I just wanted to make sure uh part of the direction that youall have given us as part of our affordable housing we are coming back with an ordinance which will allow for the waiver of impact fees for adus if they are uh committed for affordable housing for a minimum time frame right now we're trying to work through what state law allows us to do good news thank you Mr chairman I'd like to comment on one of your comments yes sir um I I like where you went when the adus I I'd like to I know it's going to come before us but I'd like to eliminate it completely for adus uh eliminate eliminate the impact for adus even even in those categories for affordable or not if you know maybe we could put other parameters around maybe somebody gaming it where what I mean by gaming it is I build this one house uh and then in six months I apply for an extension you know what I mean maybe we could have parameters as to within so much time of the initial application but you know what that is I don't know we can discuss it but I'd like to eliminate it completely um it's not needed okay for the record I went to uh Danny Robbins thanks chair um I agree 110% um anything that we can do to keep you know whether it's our kids elderly um I would I would be game for um so I'm I'm I'm in agreement with that in agreement with uh everything else that's on here no limit any question same here um I had somebody ask me about the fence permit and what if they come in later and put a pool I said well the pool's permitted so therefore you'll see whether or not it is so they understood that but um yes I'm I'm fine with this as well thank you Mr chair just uh about the adus and impact views we'll take a look at that but I'm not sure that the state statute would allow that outside of the affordable housing designation because it is it is you know treating it as part of an expansion of a house um we'll see what we can do but uh you know it's it's it's that kind of like arbitrary removal of impact fees when something is actually creating an impact versus you know when you have that affordable housing designation you have the legislature telling us hey you can completely wave impact fees whatsoever for these affordable housing units um versus you know treating the adus as basically an expansion of the existing dwelling it's like adding a second story on your house or or something like that we'll take a look at that however St State Statute may not allow us to remove impact fees for adus and only adus completely we could make it a dollar and but it would it would have less impact on our budget than some of the some of the uh live local act would but anyway thank you for that update all right thank you all very much let's go to our fourth agenda item now which is infill play again um infill development is a tool that has been identified by the planning Community is a long time to help to discourage urban sprawl uh we currently have uh policies in our comprehensive plan that uh encourage us to do so this um is really addressing undeveloped property ities non-conforming Lots within utility service provider areas it's got to be an urban zoning and it's got to be an unincorporated so the whole point is that within these areas and this map uh everyone needs to look and see this is a map reflecting the current utility service areas for all of the people who have water and sewer so going from the north to the south on the east side you've got fuchi County then you go into or Beach all the way down to the county line where you see that one area is serviced by uh farms and utilities then over on your West Side that large yellow area is Deltona then you have pockets of or of valuch County Orange City Dand Lake Helen and up towards the north you do have uh the city of Pearson has a utility area so that was our first set of parameters as to where should we be encouraging infill the reason why there's ities portable water sanitary sewer and a reasonable expectation of some form of storm water uh infrastructure in place we then looked over on the west side of uchia County and what you see there is that we've taken that map of the urban service or the service providers then came up with vacant Lots from the property appraisers information and identified clusters where we feel would be appropriate as an incentive so that these non-conforming lots that are sitting vacant could be utilized for the purposes that they're identified in our zoning map so this could be residential it could be commercial what it does is it provides a method for staff to put in uh either a relaxation of some of our standards or approval of variances to help facilitate the development of these areas where we already have the infrastructure again the goal is encourage development where you have have the infrastructure instead of extending the infrastructure further and further out this that was the West Side here's the east side again you can see these are areas near Orman Beach and Holly Hill you get down near uh Port Orange and then also down near Edgewater and Oak Hill so now back to uh herb here are the criteria staff for proposing I'd like just get your feedback whether you are okay with these or any other criteria that you would like to have discussed today G sanago I'll being with you before you start Jake Johansson has a clarifying question yeah I have a question clay some of these um enclaves I'm not I'm not talking I guess about and there may be others but Orman by the Sea and and bethon Beach because because of the water but the the the only Incorporated areas that are surrounded MH by a city what can we do to motivate the the the property owner in the city to Annex and and to I don't want to call it a problem but no longer be an issue um is is there anything any Merit in doing that uh um yes sir to motivate them to try not to force them obviously we can't but well actually there can be situations um then and it they have to be true enclaves which means an area of the county surrounded by a single City one city that the only access to those properties is through that City and that there's natural barriers that prevent it the city and the county can work together to have an annexation agreement where up up Wards of 110 acres of The Enclave can be uh forced to Annex we've done that once in the last eight years I'm aware of with the city of Orange City um like this example down here on the screen right now where you see Hand Avenue Clyde moris and Nova Road right that's not an enclave even though it looks like it that's because you have three cities surrounding it you have Orman Daytona and uh Holly Hill so unfortunately that would not be applicable but some of these other areas we can look at and identify those as as well if that's something that the county wants us Council wants uscl to again back to that communicate with the pro property owner um I would like to try to find a a way to motivate people to to do that just not not because I mean throughout they're out there all alone um the sheriff's not going to come run into them it's going to be the local law enforce enforement it's going to be a local ambulance it's going to be a local fire department um uh they and and I I think it would just be advisable to try to motivate them to Annex in and and if the answer is no the answer is no um but we find a lot that that these folks like to be out on that little island until they need help from the county and then nobody comes and then they say we don't get any support from the county so um that that's my one thing on on the items other than that the the infill the infill things uh I I I think are working out as as best as as we can given the situation we have thank you Council councilman sanago I like the criteria I think it gives you plenty of parameters to work with so I'm I'm okay with it vice mayor yeah I'm good to go thanks I'm good DIY coun Reinhardt good C Robin Mr chair the criteria which one of us you he he gave me the high signs he walked in oh okay I didn't see yeah I'm I'm good with the criteria I think this is also really important for our affordable housing program it's one way that we can U we can help that move forward so okay all right well thank You' all very much we've gotten through the agenda I did say we would take the time allowing if you had some other ideas or questions or just things you'd like to generally discuss with your colleagues don't open the door we're doing good this group we be till 10 okay I will go around quickly and are you're just concluding comments for the day Johanson I I appreciate George staff's work on this um and and I know this is just the beginning and I know there there'll be some healthy debate in in a couple probably the next meeting maybe a little longer than that but um uh I'm looking forward to to these coming back for for debate uh I encourage the public uh to come and speak uh because uh this was a workshop they didn't they didn't uh have the opportunity but I know they have a lot to say feel free to reach out to us with your concerns um we all have email addresses uh and uh um uh we we reply as quick as we can and um keep something in mind with with these changes that that every every body says talks about the developer and us being in the developer Pockets but a lot of these uh changes or or discussions that we're about to have um app apply to citizens of L County uh it's not just the fence and the Seven chickens or the five chickens um um people want to open up small business people want to do things on their egg property people want to ride their Mini bikes and motorcycles on their own property and um uh for those who who like more regulation I I I live in a gated community with about eight HOAs with so many covenants and restrictions that that I have like five colors that my front door can be so if you like that I don't but I live there if you like that then then that's the place you get you want to live if you want to live out in the country uh then then just get to know your neighbors so you can communicate them what your likes and dislikes are about what they're doing but I appreciate everything that everybody's done here today thank you Robins uh to Echo that absolutely he he hit the nail on the head you know uh in unincorporated County uh Council and and and the public uh this is a way of life for for a lot of us and it goes uh to our quality of life and I I haven't heard uh one person in my district say they want more regulation and and more red tape and uh that they want un Incorporated to be uh one big HOA um and a lot of this stuff kind of applies to the more the city lifestyle so I appreciate everybody hearing us uh this doesn't give car blanch to uh developers it was said earlier that uh the last thing we're going to or the first thing we're going to hear is bulldozers and schools going up that's not the case um so I'm glad that we can uh get some of these discussions on the table able and and move forward but thank you thanks for everything you're doing thank you Steph thank you very much and George Suzanne thank you so much for putting this together workshops we can get a lot done you know you have that barrier of sunshine where you're not allowed to talk about things so then you can get more done at least discussing these matters that are important I've had the luxury in 50 plus years in val County to live on both Incorporated areas and unincorporated areas because I was out nose team forever but um all of which is important and I love the fact that we can work with our partners at vCard and and other things that uh we can accomplish so much so thank you very much for putting this together Mr chair M come like to you to last if I may close good job staff thank you and I agree with everything Jake said today okay bye May Vice chair thank you very much uh George and team lot of work a lot of effort thank you clay especially you and your team you did the heavy lift on this and great job facilitating thank you cilman Dy yeah I just like to reiterate everything that Troy and Jake said I mean and everybody else I mean the staff did an incredible job putting this all together and again it's just trying to get as little regulations and stuff in this County as possible and you know promote property rights and just like Jake said if you want to live in a more restrictive environment and you know go to a place that's designed for that otherwise like Danny says if we live in the country then there's country you know there's more uh Room to Grow I guess her play so uh thank you guys for everything and your time before I go to the chair I'd like to ask the manager like make closing comments if you would just thank you thank you for the it really was a team effort but uh definitely clay and his team uh did a lot of heavy lifting a lot of work on this this was great it gives us uh exactly what we need to put together uh a plan of action and we'll be coming forth with you and uh if anyone has any concerns about uh being able to speak like has been said many times you'll have plenty of opportunities because these will involve ordinance changes which will have uh quite a bit of public uh speaking uh at that time so again thank you and thank you for coming in an extra day for it appreciate it and thank you for the opportunity to work with you if yall are doing just really interesting stuff you're a fun group challenging and no lack of ideas Mr chairman if you close uh clay I just want to say to you you gave me in a discussion a few days ago probably the best news you've reiterated it here again today that uh your office clearing of a backlog that was Troublesome um that was really good news and I hope that we will continue that I'm very pleased with the new software the systems um and so I would just like to say this I hope this doesn't wreck the whole uh everything we've just done I think there was tremendous agreement I view myself as as much of a property rights person as as anyone else on this Council I think it's foundational to a healthy Republic um I just I I want to keep in mind for me and I think everybody else feels the same that um property rights also affect your neighbor who has property rights and that's why these things are sometime sometimes so difficult we you know my property rights stop at at Don's door when I have a cannon and competing with his uh motocross track and um that's that's not I think actually happen to think your your practice track at your house is is uh is quite beautiful and well done and wellmaintained and I hope your uh son continues to win I just end with this that for for me um I would like as a matter of priorities to see the I2 zoning issue come back uh first as quickly as possible I think that's one that we we really need to deal with and what we all what the public and all of us uh were confronted with today is that it's really difficult to change zoning once it's in place because it affects the people that already live there so it it doesn't help to put it off we have to we have to um address the problem as it is and I know that's what brought this whole uh Workshop up so I appreciate that and I look forward to uh taking care of that and with that at 5:26 we can adjourn anybody opposed I don't hear any opposition thank you thank you for e for