##VIDEO ID:baP925Sj7ZA## oh he microphone check one two got it he welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes he a he a w w a welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes a B I is welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes e yep good morning you all right we don't have uh the preacher didn't show up okay we're uh couple minutes behind we'll get started but this is a a special morning so we've uh we're uh giving everybody a little break glad to see everyone here today um we will call the uh January 9th 2025 valuch County council meeting to order at 903 um we're going to start a little bit differently today uh we have as you know because that's why most of you are here we have three members that will be sworn at sworn in this morning and um it's it's a special event for for them and their families for for all of us so we appreciate you you being here I don't believe that uh uh Pastor mner is here is that correct Pastor mner are you in the room haven't seen him okay well uh we will open up with an invocation since he is not here here if everyone uh would stand we'll have uh uh 60 seconds of uh self-reflection your personal prayer and then we'll go right into the Pledge of Allegiance thank you I pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America and to the for stands one nation God indivisible withy and justice for all who okay all right we are starting this morning this is a uh a very special um council meeting Mr Mr Brower before we start that I'll go ahead and take the role you can call the role Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey present Mr Johansson here Mr Kent here yes Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins Mr Brower here and uh if if you have an agenda this morning we're going to go a little bit off the agenda for the Oaths of office so to give family members a chance to get here so this morning um we will start with the oath of office and swearing in of our current Vice chair Troy Kent thank you chairman would would my family join me up here please Troy where are your dogs Daisy allow toy Dy how are you yeah will'll say we are very pleased to have judge orfinger here this morning to uh to do the honors papa papa right here come are we hot good morning I know they're going to do the oath I'm Blown Away my family surprised me I knew my wife was coming and I knew my dad was coming shocked about everybody else good morning sir uh if you would please place your left hand on the on the Bible raise your uh right hand i'm have you come just a little bit and then repeat after me I Troy can't do solemnly swear I Troy Kent do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States the Constitution and government of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida that I am duly qualified to hold office that I am duly qualified to hold office under the constitution of the State of Florida under the constitution of the State of Florida and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of Valia County Council District 4 the duties of Lucia County Council District 4 on which I am now about to enter on which I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you judge thank you I would have gotten flowers for all my sisters but I didn't know they were coming so for my wife and for my daughter you want to hold those buddy for momy Julie and my daughter says give them to one of my sisters she drove the furthest all the way from Georgia and surprised us to be here so anyway thank you Vice chair K can you introduce us to the little guy here yes I can come here come so um this is our daughter Gabby and Gabby has uh two beautiful wonderful baby boys Hudson and Truitt Hudson is all about Mimi that's all he wants and Truitt is all about Papa and um I don't have any favorites oh I don't I don't I don't I don't have any favorites but chairman thank you for that yeah this is truid and this is Hudson um two of the most beautiful redhead boys you'll ever see yes so thank you very handsome come here come here I think your face me I'll okay we're still going to go a little bit out of order um hoping other family members make it in here so uh I will uh I will go next if uh my wife and family want to meet me down here in the front yesterday judge sure thanks for coming thank you for all right sir if you would please uh place your left hand on the Bible raise your right hand and repeat after me I Jeffrey Brower do solemnly swear I Jeffrey Brower do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States the Constitution and government of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the state of Florida that I am duly qualified to hold office and that I am duly qualified to hold office under the constitution of the State of Florida under the constitution of the State of Florida and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of vucha County Council chair the duties of Valia County Council chair on which I am now about to enter on which I I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you thank you most of just a a few words thank you sir appreciate you being here a few quick words uh most of you know we have a large family we have nine children um I still have a couple that come to these they all have they've all grown up so they all have jobs now and I appreciate every one of you uh coming some have already worked this morning and and um and came I you know family is important uh but I also want to thank my family and the audience all the people that made it possible for me to stand here again today and and accept this responsibility thank all of you um and we will celebrate tomorrow thank you that's right nice tie thank you slide that way oh hey Al you've been taking our picture for about 10 years thank you I have the least amount of people but that's okay they're here in spirit so my daughter was able to join me my wife is very ill so um and it seems like all the kids are elsewhere but that's okay my favorite show I'm just kidding exactly yeah easy all right sir if you would please uh place your left hand on the Bible raise your right hand and repeat after me I Matthew Reinhardt do solemnly swear I Matthew Reinhardt do solemnly swear that I will support protect and defend that I will support protect and defend the Constitution and government of the United States the Constitution and the government of the United States and of the State of Florida and of the State of Florida that I am duly qualified to hold office that I am duly qualified to hold office under the constitution of the State of Florida under the constitution of the state of Florida and that I will well and Faithfully perform and that I will well and Faithfully perform the duties of Valia County Council District 2 the duties of Valia County Council District 2 on which I am now about to enter on which I am now about to enter so help me God so help me God congratulations thank you very much a thank you very much I appreciate that you did you did awesome thank you sir and thank you everybody for showing friends of mine did show and and the Mayors thank you so much we appreciate you Vice chair Troy Kent you had a few words for uh some special people in this audience chairman thank you for um the flexibility and I I certainly appreciate it I was able to introduce my grandchildren and briefly my wife and daughter but I just I wanted to just take a a minute and just I wanted to thank the voters in District 4 for giving me this incredible opportunity um I thank them for putting their trust in me and then also wanted to thank my wife and my daughter who's who was here and then of course you know my father and uh Don and my sisters Sue and Julie that are here my brother John that's here um um Mike sco you're you're incredible you're amazing as well thank you Nanette you've been there in the in the corner every step of the way since we met two years ago and uh my timeline picked up two years ago today we had our swearing in it was two years ago to the day that uh that that happened and uh just very special that uh I was surprised by some some loving family members today and I just I just want to tell the council and and tell vucha County that uh I of course am committed to making this County better during my next and first ever four-year term so um thank you for the um the latitude chairman I appreciate it well we each have an opportunity for comments anything else you're good okay uh councilman Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um as I said we have some family members that are out ill um I didn't have the lectur of having my mom or my dad here uh unfor fortunately my bonus son finally made it you're you're just a little late that's okay you missed the photo you don't care but thank you uh thank you for the friends and the support uh I appreciate it very much and um thank you it seems like campaigns get uh longer and longer um each each rotation this was a long campaign and um we had some tremendous obstacles to uh to overcome um it wouldn't have happened um without of course the support of the voters of Valia County this is a large County and to travel the entire County and to try and talk to as many people as possible is um is a arduous task but it's also encouraging when you meet the people of valuchi County it just gives I think it's the same for all of us it gives us all encouragement that we have great people here we have really smart people here and we have some some big issues that we need to take care of um but uh i' just like to thank the people of Valia County for giving me the opportunity to serve you again and then once again those of you that worked through uh a year and a half of a campaign um through 14 days of early voting for a for long hours um weather was pretty good in the general election it was brutally hot in the uh in the primary but those of you that worked on my campaign stand up real quick this is this is not all of them they couldn't and my family as well family is stand up Brandon this is my oldest son my oldest son Brandon and um um I've he works in Orlando so I'm really glad to see you here this this morning um my daughter bar has already work this morning and we'll go back to work afterwards and and Providence uh was up before I was this morning um thank you for your hard work thank you thank you for the challenge that it is for a family with a a mother or a father that runs for office you you take the brunt of of everything that's thrown at me and you gave me encouragement and strength and um your your character is something that I will always be proud of and always honor and for each of you that are standing up um could not have done it without you you're you were inspiring um and I just um I just thank you for everything that you do thanks for coming Terry I don't know how you do it but I'm so glad that you do thank you we do have uh a couple of other comment we are honored to have uh two of our area Mayors at least two have you seen any other Mayors this morning which one of you wants to go first um mayor of Daytona Beach Shores U Nancy Miller would like to speak to and the mayor of Pon Inlet Lois paritzky good morning chair Brower councilman Reinhardt councilman Kent um congratulations on your reelection we are very proud of you um at large commissioner councilman Johanson Robin Santiago and Dempsey good morning on behalf of the Florida League of Mayors and the 16 Mayors in Valia County and the Valia League of cities which I am now the president are past president Lois pitsky and mayor of Pon Inlet we offer our support and any assistance that we can give we look forward to our continuing and strong relationships we view ourselves as a valuable resource for you and are ready to offer any local insights and information to help and guide your decisions in your decision making please reach out to us for any needs of our constituents we thank you again for your service to our County each and every one of you are greatly appreciated thank you good morning Lois paritzky mayor of the town of Pon Inlet I want to congratulate our three members who were reelected here and I also want to thank this Collective body I want to Echo what Mayor Miller has said and I want to thank you because each one of you has always been available to me if I have reached out by a phone call or an email and my constituents are greatly appreciative of the fact that you are available to us and that you help us you listen to us and we thank you for all of your efforts on behalf of vola County residents so thank you so much congratulations the best of luck to all of you and we are here as Mayor Miller has said as a resource for you so thank you again for your work thank you what an honor to have you to come thank thank you very much one other uh detail for this uh the ceremonial part of our meeting we are also honored to have students from university University High School and this is the University High School of government and their uh their teacher Donald Saro um would you all come down for a picture please this is and Pat you'll have to line everybody up the way that you want but I I was really encouraged to hear that they were they were present this morning these are students that are studying government that may end up running for office someday and I just I just honor that this is our future here let's see can you see all the she going to tell us to move to the left I'll get out of the way and then we're going to refuse thank you on Al before you sit down I want everybody to know um the paper announced yesterday that this is your 25th year that you just completed or you're starting your 25th 25 years with the West valua Beacon you do tremendous work you're here every meeting you even go to the Deltona meetings of St 3:00 in the morning so we appreciate your hard work work Al Everson okay and I I don't know if any of the other uh two council members that were just elected have any thing else to say I want I wanted to add some real quick comments uh as as chair um how I how I view my job and um I I want you all to know and I want my colleague to know here that we have all these students that came in this morning to watch how government works and I want you to be encouraged I think this is going to be a year where you see all of us coming together like we haven't before we won't agree on everything but we can do it with honor and dignity and respect for for one another I think you deserve that that's how that's how I view uh my job um is that first and foremost my job and all of our uh our roles up here is to protect your god-given constitutionally protected rights that's the chief role of government second role as chair is to give each one of my colleagues um an equal opportunity to express their concerns um to to speak out and it's um uh we there's some smart people up here and you should be encouraged by that and um I also I just I just want to speak to everyone up here and say Let's uh let's have a year where um we just deal with each other with respect and um uh maybe a little less ranker I I I am going to follow the rules that we have set but as you already know I I will stretch the rules when somebody we we have a process when we have an item we we listen to staff and then we ask questions and then we debate it very frequently in that process when we're done questions and in debate somebody will have a question and I feel like my job is to always give them the opportunity to ask another question even out of order U because our the work that we do is that important we need to get it right and and if in debate somebody has a question for somebody from staff um I think it's happened with every one of us um I will give them that opportunity so I would just ask that you you give us all that um that leniency and um I know we want to be efficient and and not be here till midnight every night but let's I think more important that the time uh limits that we place on ourselves is to get it right and to treat each other with respect and you have um you have my word that I will do that for each one of you and I just um um I I know that you will return that uh for your colleagues here any anyone else okay yeah I Santiago thank you I appreciate your message and and I look forward to it um I think it'll be a good start to this new year and and um um good debate is always good right um respectful debate is always good so I I I learn a lot from each and every one of you as we go through the debate and um I'm encouraged by your message thank you if I could thank you um I I agree I I think I even had the conversation with one of your constituents uh that I look forward to uh working with you um and um I appreciate that I appreciate the sentiments I appreciate the fact that uh uh we have a lot of challenges that we face and a lot of them are controversial and um they're not always easy they're not always easy decisions and uh I look forward to a new beginning um and uh one other thing on a quick note uh family members Brady you didn't hear the fact that I called Kayla my favorite did you okay just checking all right so I just want to make sure it wasn't recorded thank you so um but yes I look forward to it thank you very much chairman uh currently Vice chair Troy Kent yes sir I just want to Second your comment because I thought you know it's spoton and uh the New Year it's new beginnings and I appreciate um you stating what you stated you know that leadership you know from the center chair and and talking about working more cohesively together and uh getting things done for valch County residents at the end of the day and and I also agree with you there's some um I think all of the individuals up here are smart and um you know I I look forward to hearing their ideas learning from them and uh continuing to do great things in valua so thank you for sharing that chairman you're welcome thank you and thank you all once again for being here I know many of you have to to leave and and go back to work um and uh move some animals around U um thank you all for for coming so we will we will continue on with the uh the business at hand and um with item one uh the resolution of 2025 organization of vucha County Council thank you all again and councilman Robbins I know that you wanted to speak on item two you want to speak uh now thank you chair motion to approve resolution for the 2025 organization of the luch County Council as presented Second Joe Hanson a motion to adopt the organization of the new Council by um councilman Robin and uh the second was by councilman Johansson any questions debate all in favor say I I any opposed and we are adopted 7 to zero item two is uh we start off each year with uh by electing a a vice chair uh for 2025 and I will take uh nominations councilman Robbins I'd like to nom The Honorable District 2 representative Matt Reinhardt second Johansson okay we have a nomination of of Matt Reinhardt by uh councilman Robbins second by councilman uh Joe Hanson are there any other nominations all if there are no nominations we will we okay we will close I I just thought I saw smoke coming out of here who me okay a really good idea burning um all right all in favor of Matt Reinhardt for vice chair please say I I any he opposed and congratulations Vice chair and that brings us to item one if you don't want your no go ahead thank you very much and gentlemen thank you for the honor um I have some big shoes to fill Troy and Danny so uh am watching that seat uh there's a lot of work and and with uh my sentiments earlier about working together uh having us right next to each other let's uh let's make that happen so thank you very much for the honor I appreciate it congratulations councilman you should probably get a some kind of a gold star or something for serving the the first year he likes Charleston Cho I'm going to give him one thank you and I'll I'll I'll accept and it's under the threshold by the way of the gift okay I I have a cigar for you for later as long as it's not Cuban and it's under the threshold sir I'll be happy to take it thank you that's right uh okay item three um adopting the 2025 County Council meeting schedule um I'm sure everybody has had uh time to take a look at this um are there any uh uh comments or questions for staff uh I wanted I started to call you Vice chair councilman Troy Ken that's all right yeah um chairman and and Council I wanted to take your temperature and see how you felt about uh two changes I'd like to make to the meeting I'd like to do this now instead of later on down the road it puts staff in a little bit of a of a pickle as to uh moving things around on the agenda this will give them ample time but uh the the first one um is uh July 1st I'd like to remove that from our meeting schedule it's uh um I have July 1 is it written down is it yeah I have July 1 written down uh sorry chairman there was some discussion about maybe being July 3rd for the meeting am I correct is that July first it is okay so I wanted to see what the council thought about about removing that just because I know that not only are a lot of our constituents out of town during that week but there's also uh council members and staff that may be out of town as well so that's the first one the second one I wanted to talk about was U next to the Christmas holiday which is December 16th so um I I will at this time go ahead and make a motion to remove meetings uh on July 1st and December 16th second okay so we have a motion to remove those two meetings uh by councilman Kent and the second by David Santiago uh any questions um for staff uh I I I'll start with with one because we we discussed this yesterday in in a staff meeting um I know there's there seems to be con some concern learn that whenever we drop a meeting it really puts pressure on on the next meeting and maybe several meetings thereafter to try and and catch up especially this year we have uh you're anticipating a pretty hefty schedule I think um so everybody up here uh respects the four of you down there does would any of you like to speak to that issue I think you C I mean we do have a heavy workload and the only thing I would say is as long as we have a little uh flexibility in the meeting maybe that follows where we pulled one out because that'll likely be a heavier meeting that's all uh and with the sixh hour time limit yeah that's meeting it's going to be like the following meeting would be difficult uh to make the six potentially you know you just don't know what's on there and and again I think if if everyone remains flexible I mean we're fine and uh if I know the council's serious uh if something were to happen God forbid that we need to have a meeting we could schedule a meeting so I appreciate uh Mr Kent's uh thinking out ahead it is easier to plan um that way and uh I would point one other thing that's on the schedule I just want to make sure everyone acknowledges that there would be another Thursday meeting in uh September because September um in order to meet the statute of the 65 days that have to have occurred from the time the role was certified uh that made it so we would really have to go and have our budget meeting on September 4th in the typically you know that has to be uh after 5:00 so we just said why don't we move the meeting to that day and just have one day like we've done in the past we could go ahead and have our normal meeting on that Tuesday but our suggestion and the way it's laid out in the schedule is to move the whole meeting to that Thursday and anyway so and and chairman if you don't mind I I noticed that I saw that that was on the calendar and um that's why I didn't touch that or try to address that I I knew what staff needed to do there and I thought it was it was more efficient for us as well so that's why I didn't touch that one okay councilman Robbins chairman thank you um Mr Ken I I think this is very achievable um and and just uh and chair as well I appreciate the renewal and the the Assurance to council to to follow decorum that's something I'm going to be drilling down on to push us to our limits as well uh and I I appreciate everybody just holding us all accountable so we can meet those limits for not just for for us uh but for the citizens well as well to get the uh the people's business done in an efficient effective manner so uh Mr Ken I'll I'll uh second your proposal councilman Johansson thank you chairman um is there is there any consideration then knowing that the July 22nd and December 16th meetings will be robust that we have a time limit but know that probably with a robust schedule we may not make it uh to make the 22nd and the 16th meetings uh morning I I think that affects uh Troy and Don more than anybody else but uh uh is there any thought to starting that in the morning so if we do go long uh it doesn't go into the we hours in the next morning and and effect your following work day uh uh as far as uh sleeping getting up the next day um that that might help us knowing that we'll go probably more than six hours on the on the 22nd and the 16th December that's the yeah that one's going to be canceled so we'd already have the morning meeting would already would already be there so the 16th is already there so the second and the 16th would be gone and no the 16th would be gone 16th would be gone July 1st would we would remove July 1st and we would remove um de December 16 December 16th got it so the only one I think that you're asking for now is could July 22nd be be a daytime a daytime yes sir and I don't know I prefer to keep it how it is but whatever the rest of the council wants to do I mean you know I could I could do a daytime in July but whatever the council wants to do right I'm yeah I'm not going to if if there's not much interest I'm not going to ask to amend I can make a for one uh councilman k was that your name was on the yeah just cuz I was talking B now off uh councilman Dempsey yeah I'm fine with that Jake the 22nd of July going all day is fine with me doesn't I can work around it thanks guys for which date July 22nd where Jake was proposing make it a morning session so we could I'm fine with that since just just so I'm clear on it so the only day we would we make a change would be July 22nd it would be a daytime instead of a nighttime right staff seems to be in favor of that as well as the maker of the motion um I'm going to go ahead and withdraw my motion and then I'm going to restate another one and with it I'm going to I'm G to uh that we remove the July 1st meeting and the December 16th meeting but that our um July 22nd meetings start at 900 a.m. instead of 400 p.m. okay uh councilman Robin second that restated motion um any other questions or or debate on that I'm I'm just wondering how is there any uh any concern any different issues we've tried uh last year I think it came from uh councilman Kent that we have a nighttime meeting they start at 4: so um it's really not night time but it's if we don't start at 4: we're here till 2:00 in the morning every morning is everybody still happy with the evening meetings is what I wanted to know yes I'm okay with it okay good with it okay all right then the motion on the floor is to remove July 1st and December 16th meeting and begin the July 22nd meeting at at 9:00 a.m. uh all in favor say I I any opposed and that motion carries 7 to zero then for the public that's here that was probably wondering did you skip public participation no we just moved it to the the organizational part of our meeting which is required by our County Council so we will have public participation now and as I as I call your name if you would just come up to the podium you will have 3 minutes to speak on issues that affect our County um and uh if you would just state where you're from you don't have to give your full address for uh reasons of Public Safety um but tell us where you're where you're from so that your representative uh knows who you are um and um there will be a clock on the monitor in front of you and on the screen behind me please um uh stick to the 3 minutes and um I will I will let you know um if you if you don't see it um don't see the clock and um first we have uh Michelle you don't want to go first Kremer um good morning my name is Michelle Kramer and I live on Shady Lane in Orange City on Miller Lake I want to know when you are going to give us back our properties that you stole from all of us on and around Miller Lake we bought 11.8 acres in 2015 and we are down to less than five acres M can you hold up one second hold that clock for her I see people in the audience asking about sound and I know for me it's can you hear me it's not real loud is there anything we can do to turn up the volume okay that's fine do you want me to start over and speak up start over you tell me yes start over start over Okay um good morning my name is Michelle Kramer I live on Shady Lane on Miller Lake in Orange City I want to know when you all are going to give us back our property that you stole from all of us on and around Miller Lake we bought 11.8 acres in 2015 and we are down to less than 5 Acres this is due to the county purchasing a small acre of land on Miller Lake and then improving permits to allow Orange City businesses to flow their water into Miller Lake and trespass on my and others properties we have already lost one home having to move our daughter in with us we have already had to take down six very large mature oak trees due to the water killing them we are at least 90 more in the water and we do not want to lose them we all bought out here for the privacy and the beauty there are not too many old Florida properties out there anymore I grew grew up in Dand this used to be a beautiful County now it's just building after building after building building is okay if you actually control the building and manage the storm water properly instead you choose to flood home after home I'm sure all of you know that vucha county is ranked first in the state and seventh in the country for the worst flooding problems I would think that you would want to improve this and not want to continue to hold this standing instead of building more fix the flooding problems that should be your number one PR priority there are three viable places that the county can buy and flood for your purposes there are 60 Acres behind Miller Road Royal Oaks complex or the Big Lots complex which is now closing get my water paper CR I know we are not the only flooding issues but Orange City seems to have a lot of low-lying areas that need help with moving water away from them this constant building cannot be sustained without you fixing the water problems first you're also pushing the wildlife out they have nowhere to go anymore we should not be the solution for existing and new businesses that flow their water into our private Lake stop putting a bandage on the problem and actually look to fix it these problems are only going to get worse if you don't address these water problems you should all be working with us not against us thank you thank you for your comments uh Paul Richardson morning Council my name is Paul Richardson of the land as you know America is barely divided these days and brua County itself has been breathlessly dealing with a Fallout of recent flooding fortunately there's a bright spot in our F immediate future The Once in a Lifetime American Milestone the 250th Independence Day is fast preing July 4 2026 yes I have not given up on my dream of doing something special for that unique July 4th 2026 I will be going to staff in my role as a cultural council member to work on an appropriate pro project to bring to you now what I would like from you all is two historical figures from any era and significance ex me you should have my email address so please send them to me as soon as possible God bless blissa County God Bless America and her Eternal Ally Israel thank you thank you for your comments uh Katherine levenson good morning and congratulations to those who got just voted in again um I'm going to start a little bit different I want to show you a book it is from Orange City it's a history book that talks about Orange City and what it says in there on page 39 is that 175 years ago my community was started it was started by people who came into to farm and it's actually documented in this book and shows how these Civil War men and women you know especially the men came and they were buried there and there's a graveyard there on Alice Road the reason I'm telling you this is that this community that I live in called Rolling Acres really off of Orange City has been there at least 175 years it is threatened now because as Miller Lake floods the water goes up and will take over that whole entire graveyard which is a historical area that has been there at least 175 years I know you're working on stopping the flooding into Miller Lake it needs to be done faster I mean as much as water as the Barry's helping us pump out 2third of it is being pumped back in every single day it's a continuous flow from the pipes and the permit that you guys authorized which is permit number uh wherever it is uh permit number H whatever I'll tell you later oh there it is 144 3361 that needs to be turned off or stopped also anything you guys do to stop that water coming into us needs to be done on the opposite side of 1792 not done to continue flowing water into us and maybe taking it out the berry as it is stops every sing single time it rains every single time it rains they stop the pumps to take the water out which means it rains so the water goes up another inch or two in our Lake because we get the Overflow from Orange City through those permitted pipelines they need to be stopped and turned off and there's no permission to flood our private land there is no permission so whatever happened with those permits needs to stop and that's all I got to say thank you thank you for your comments uh David Hill thank you for letting me talk about Miller Lake I live on Miller Road I used to be 700 feet from Miller Lake now I have 100 feet of water on my property and I I did not give anybody permission to do that I know the county in 2017 agreed lead to the permit to take the uh drain under Treemont drive from the Royal Oaks exfiltration system which is merely a pipeline for hundreds of Acres of Orange City commercial water so all that water is flowing into Miller Lake 24 hours a day 7 days a week and I did not agree to that you have the county of Lucia has five Lots in Miller Lake there's another 40 people that were not consulted about that permit that was permitted in 2017 this the permit gives you solutions to stop this and I don't understand why you guys aren't requiring the county to to take charge and stop this draining into Miller Lake it I don't understand it but I don't agree to it and I'm just not going to sit back and allow you to take my land a solution would be the best solution to stop it and let Orange City take care of their water the other solution would be to raise the Overflow structure in the Big Lots Pond and put your pumping system over there the the the the line that the water is being pumped out right now is closer and you would keep all the water on the east side of 1792 pump that water to wherever you want to pump it to but it needs to stay out out of Miller Lake our community is a one-of-a-kind Community it's 2 and A2 5 acre 10 acre Parcels they don't make these communities anymore it's a it's a great Community I've grown up here and it's being destroyed and I don't I don't agree you agreed to allow the water to come in I didn't agree to it and the other residents there did not agree to it now it needs to stop and you need to do something just sitting around and pacifying is not going to work if I'm flooded out of my home the county of Luchia is going to be judged by a panel of my peers because I do not accept the flooding of my land so I want something done and thank you for your time thank you for your comments uh Anthony Frank morning y'all my name's County um I'm part of the Miller Lake crew um and I actually have more questions than comments but I'm going to throw a couple questions out and I don't need them answer now because I only have three minutes up here uh number one uh who's in charge of enforcing the law because we've been told ever since the hurricane that no we can't pump your water because we have no place to put it yet water is allowed to come in as David's saying and Katherine was saying from Orange City businesses now why is that allowed and why can't it be stopped when the provisions in this contract or permit or whatever say that it can because it caused adverse effects number one number two the policies that have been put in place to allow this water over there I'm going to tell you point blank what it's done it's done it to me it's done it to everybody on Miller Road and probably most people on Shady road if not all of them you have destroyed the value of my property my life's work is in the crapper because that lake is flooded the road's flooded there's no there's nobody in the world if I wanted to leave if I wanted to sell my home I wouldn't get squat for it CU ain't nobody going to buy it they come down Miller Road they see that horse ranch 10 acre horse ranch is half in water and who's going to go beyond and say oh I want some of that property nobody you got a firefighter lives at the end of the road that's being flooded out because vuia County gave permits for lowland to build a house and and say yeah build your house you know whatever and uh it permit should have never been given there's a lot of properties along Miller Road where permit shouldn't have been issued and two three houses right there by the horse ranch either side of them are now gone from previous hurricanes and floods and whatnot and those are some of the properties that you all bought a while back you know around the horse ranch there the horse ranch people got evicted because they finally got thrown out from the bank I guess they couldn't make their payments out or whatever don't know but they're gone uh and I live towards the end of the road um and I'm not you know flooded but my value my my property isn't worth anything if I wanted to sell it there's nobody would buy it you all have destroyed you have financially killed everybody on Miller Road financially you're like murdering people and you ought to think twice about it you took an oath to protect the people of your county and you need to do your job you guys have the ability to shut that water off today coming under the road I don't know why it's three months later we still got people that are walking through the woods and stuff to go get their groceries and have to carry them for the length of a football field if any one of your wives was doing it you wouldn't put up with it you'd fix it so fix it for us thank you for your comment Annette uh muser and if I mispronounce your name please forgive me you can correct me when you get up to the microphone good morning chair and councel Denette muser from Miller Road today is day 91 and Counting 91 days that biller lake is flooded Beyond capacity 91 days the residents on Miller Road and Shady Lane have had to adjust their lives to these conditions 91 days the children cannot play or nor dogs can run free on their property due to risk of alligators snakes and bacteria 91 days we are unable to enjoy our Hobbies we cannot use our RVs as we are unable to get them off our properties 91 days this has affected the livelihood of some residents who had to sell off their assets to keep their business afloat 91 days some residents are without septic systems and running water and have to make different arrangements to take showers use restrooms and other activities of daily living 91 days some residents have not had vehicle access to their homes how many of you will get in your car today drive home drive up to your house and park in your driveway or garage not I for 91 days in counting my husband and I have been unable to part take in this luxury we've had to cut a section of our fence walk through the neighbor property walk down their driveway to get to our vehicles parked on Miller Road we must haul our trash and groceries with a garden Wagon we must use our tractor to get supplies to the barn for our horses I'm unable to go to horse shows or take lessons because I cannot get my horses off the property no emergency access if my house were to catch on fire the truck couldn't get on to the property in a medical emergency it would take extra time for an ambulance or EMS to reach us time is brain not to mention a safety hazard at night there's no Lighting on the road we walk by flashlight risking encounters with Wildlife as a taxpaying citizen of Orange City fuchia County the State of Florida and the United States you have denied me my right as outlined in the 14th Amendment of the US con Constitution and I quote no State can deprive a person of their property without due process of law it is in violation of this amendment to block access to a resident's property by any means whether by water a Causeway or both in this instance if the plan is to raise Miller Road it will cost us $150,000 to create access to the modified Road alucha county is responsible for this event by permitting the flow or drainage of water in a closed Basin through an exfiltration system the rainy season is only 4 months away hurricane season 4 and a half months away if the flow does not cease these events the residents of Miller Road and Shady Lane could lose their homes forever thank you for your time thank you for your comments ree Linton good morning um my name is Ree Linton Orange City also part of the Miller Lake group here um four of my five acres are still underwater 90 plus days after the storm that I will say finished us off um this has been a problem that has been brewing since at least 2017 when a valve was put in across the street there in Orange City that started to the flow into our closed Basin the request here is the same as is my fellow neighbors and that is to stop the unnatural flow into our Basin and I just want to remind everyone here there is enough of us we are desperate and Scrappy and we are not going anywhere please stop the unnatural flow into our area thank you thank you uh John Nicholson johnon Theon beach side just an aside uh to build on their comments I don't recall the Council cuz I come to several of your meetings over the last 40 years and nobody has uh eminent domained their property to use for uh the commercial property in Orange City I don't recall you doing a take permit or any reason for them to understand that you're going to use their property you didn't buy it you didn't lease it but yet you are leasing it you're using it for water storage for a commercial property I believe you owe them funding in you either buy their properties out for the commercial property or you lease it from them if I were them I would sue you for the use of their land over the last 90 days or any other time uh secondly uh with regard to Jeff uh Matt and Troy the makeup of this Council um I watch you guys I see the good and the Bad and the Ugly um but I see mostly good and what the public doesn't understand is the makeup of this Council you have a former city manager you have a former commissioner you have a former state representative you have a former department head employee of the county you have a lawyer on this board and you have a gentleman that was in construction you also have a gentleman that has half the population of the city of or actually the county of aluia in his family so you have a great makeup when things come before you you can hit lawyer you can hit what happens in Tallahassee what a what a city does this is a great makeup in terms of boards and I don't think people understand that um secondly on your agenda that talks about leases why do you guys lease so much property have you're looking to cut money at what point can you look at that I wish you would when you're looking at ways to cut funding and keep uh taxes down look at the leases can we move it to unused businesses can we share proper properties share uh parking lots whatever just to keep the leases down uh last also the university group was here they couldn't see the first half of the meeting the staff five of them stood across in front of us it was a wall that they could not see the beginning of the meeting they could not see the uh swearing in of uh Troy Kent because the wall stood there had I not gotten up and said please move they couldn't have seen anything of the at the beginning of the meeting so I'm asking that the staff be cognizant of the fact that when they take pictures and they stand they block The audience's View if they put up anything it will block the audience's view um also with regard to Daytona Beach going through the ezone that they started 20 years ago it asked for cooperation with the county I ask you again look at cooperating with the city of dayon beach thank you thank you for your comments um before we move to the next item I I don't know about the rest of the council but it's I I can't sit here and and listen to the cries of our of our neighbors and um I I know we're not ignoring them we we get back to them but I I'd just like to ask the the county manager is there any update on Miller Lake and St John's Water Management District we've been working with St John's the fdot city of DeBry uh the pumping continues uh has been continuous uh well I think a few days or some pump maintenance that had to get done um as far as St John's uh we have a report the the the permit that's in question is St John's uh permit and they uh they say anyway that the gate is shut on that side I ask my team to confirm that physically uh so that part we are looking for a permanent long-term solution uh Ben Bartlett has been working with the Department of Transportation we're looking at other ways to remove the water to other locations so we don't necessarily have to be dependent on DeBerry or deberry's pit so that is in the works uh and we'll look at some of the pockets that are around there uh if we can get some capacity in the lake we can probably dry up some of the uh Pockets that are uh around the lake that are also affected so we're looking to doing that right now so work is being done on the on the problem every day so where is the gate located CU I was I was just there and you can see the water still running well there's going to be water running because you've got groundwater infiltration uh as well so you're always going to see water uh AC please um I'm going to have to ask you to not have uh public participation during this discussion so benart Public Works director um I'm very familiar with the system um having worked for Orange City prior to working for County the situation there is you have the uh what we refer to is the Wawa Pond which is a large natural pond that's been modified through development that exists next to the Royal Oaks sha Business Office Center and then you have the uh what we call the Big Lots Pond um back in tropical storm Fay uh those ponds overflowed the Royal Oaks Center also flooded that water staged up in their parking lot and went over the Treemont Road which is a private road into the Big Lots Pond and then from the Big Lots Pond it flows into uh through a pipe uh that the dot has installed back when they constructed 1792 um but during tropical storm Fay there was so much water that it actually staged up flowed over the road and cut a hole in 1792 very similar type event occurred during tropical storm Milton Water state staged up overflowed out of the uh Wawa Pond into the uh Royal look shopping center this time it actually cut a hole through Treemont Road trying to get to the Big Lots Pond and then from the Big Lots Pond it went over 1792 and cut a hole 1792 the reason I say that is because during these large uh events um this is how the water flows in that area there's a we uh uh had a study done after tropical storm Fay I say the count I say we I mean the county had a study done after tropical storm Fay to try to analyze what was going on what they found was is that all that water during these large events flows towards Miller Lake stages up in the pond there were homes in those in those uh around Miller Lake that were too low for these types of events the county acquired those properties we attempted to acquire what's referred to as the horse farm that owner refused to sell we acquired the other ones we excavated the property and created roughly 20 plus acres acre feet of storage in that pond getting back to the specifically the Royal Oak Center the Royal Oak um is uh currently in the city of Orange City it is not an unincorporated Orange County it was originally permitted I think in the 80s as an unincorporated property but it's since annexed into the city um they had set up a pump to pump their parking lot down because it was low and would routinely flood and they were pumping that water into the Big Lots Pond um without a permit Orange City and the water manine district went to them and said you need to get a permit if you want to continue to operate the pump they forced them to shut it down uh they did and they requested a permit uh through the Water Management District in the city of Orange City to install a pipe that connects the drainage system in their um parking lot to the Big Lots Pond keep in mind that when you have the large rain events that water again would stage up and either over top Treemont Road or cut a hole through it to try to get to the Big Lots Pond uh during the permitting process the uh Water Management District reached out to the county um and requested uh a letter of no objection to the issuance of the permit based on the fact that according to the engineers that designed and and were doing the permitting on behalf of the Royal Oak shopping center that the pipe would create an additional capacity uh or additional volume of water going to midd Lake of about 2 acre feet of water the fact that the county had created 20 plus acre feet of water our letter states that um we had no objection to the issuance of the permit based on the fact that the county had created 20 acre feet of water and this additional water was taking up about 2 acre feet so about 10% of the additional volume that was created by the county after tropical storm Fay was being taken up by this water by the pipe and that's the permit that's being referenced by the residents around Miller Lake um as far as the gate there is a control structure on the Wawa Pond between um the Wawa Pond and the Royal Oak shopping center it's a control structure that when the pond the Wawa Pond stages up it flows into that control structure into the Royal Oaks Shopping Center and then on its way to Big Lots at the time there's a pipe that goes that's below the top of the control structure that goes into the Wawa Pond that when the water staged up to that pipe it would also flow into the Royal Oak shopping center system that pipe has a slle gate which they can open and close that gate was actually installed to protect the Royal Oak shopping center from the Wawa Pond for some reason it was opened um I personally went out there with uh staff from Orange City and uh the owners of the Royal Oak shopping Center that structures on private property it's a private maintained system they agreed to close it and they have the water that's moving through currently into Miller Lake is because the drainage system in the parking lot at Royal Oaks is an exfiltration system the groundwater is high it's getting into the xville and then flowing through the pipe into the Big Lots Pond and then eventually the Big Lots Pond stages up to a point where it overtops the control structure and flows into Miller Lake into a pipe that's been in place since they've constructed 17 the Dot's constructed 1792 all of this infrastructure I'm describing from the pipe under the do Road into Orange City is either maintained by different agencies either the do or the city of Orange City or it's private systems permitted by other agencies not not belua County that is the situation now the groundwater difference so you got groundwater flowing into the xfill system it's th flowing through a pipe into the Big Lot P that's an indication that the groundwater in one area is higher than the groundwater in the other even without that it would still eventually equalize we're seeing locations throughout the county after rain events like this where you're still seeing increase in you know closed Basin type places where eventually the groundwater Works its way it moves a lot slower than the surface water and so we in a lot of these closed basins we still have standing water uh higher than normal you you know as a result of a very wet year combined with a 20in rainstorm happy to answer any questions about that system but that's that's basically where we're at our goal is to work with as Mr reonal said to work with the state the dot the city of DeBry and Orange City on a solution to there's some infrastructure already in place in terms of uh Force Mains to move water and to try to set up a system that maybe in advance of these large events we can uh move water water in advance and create additional volume knowing that it's eventually going to go there or after an event move water to try to get it down so those folks Can U you know get get the water level back to a normal level councilman Robbins chair thank you and and just out of respect for the folks here that that live on Miller Road and and everybody else for other subjects chair I think it's appropriate that we um give staff Direction bring us back some additional information and possible remedies uh that have been ident ified or Collective remedies uh in the near future and and be very Target specific with this that way uh the the victims or the flood victims know that we're actively uh uh working towards a solution let's let staff do what they do um bring us some solutions bring us some additional information for a a better conversation when we have uh when we have it agenda and scheduled councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman uh Ben thanks for that update I we've had several conversations on that and I appre appreciate you sharing that with everyone um the only thing that stand for me is if and you don't have to answer it right now but I think one of the the ideas that one of the citizens shared about um on the Big Lot side the pond if we could consider and should consider how that can be re-engineered um to prevent it from coming uh under the road into that property I've visited the site a couple times and um it's it's clear all that water it's just designed to go down that way because of the way the system is and it's probably the worst place to put it um and but if we could consider that uh in your work that you all are doing working with our partners maybe there is an opportunity to re-engineer on the The Big Lot side and send that water up to one of the connecting facilities that that helps drain it so it I'm not putting you on the spot to say give me an answer on that today because I'm sure you have to look into it but I think we should at least consider that option in your process we'll consider all options when the engineers look at it okay but I do you got to emphasize that this is all water that's in the Miller Lake Basin so that's why it was permited originally by St John's who is the state agency that controls all the lakes and this is a lake so that's what they're uh basing it on is that the water from the large area is trying to get in there the key would be diverting that water that's what I mean and we or being able to move that water faster than it goes in which a pump system once it rains 20 in in a big storm like that that's there is no pump around uh that will handle that um so as as Mr U Bartlett referred to and this is going to be not just here this is as he described we have this in several places around blushia County and he closed basins uh it'll require uh Lake management ahead of time it will require you and by the way that has not been allowed for many years by the state because you know that water is also your drinking water eventually that you recharge water that's going into the system so they want water held up at a certain level and they don't like you preempting it um so I think they're changing there's been a change at the district and we we're talking to them but you know it's been very difficult to get permitted systems that would allow us to draw that down significantly ahead of a storm it's also going to take uh consideration from or acceptance from some Lake Property Owners not just Miller Lake but in other areas to see their Lakes possibly go down lower if you remember was it 8 10 years ago people were complaining that their Lakes were too L exactly we've actually and I think the City of Deltona went through a lawsuit for the exact opposite yeah we were they were mad that uh the lake had staged back up and then uh it was brought down and they went to St John's and the were lawsuit and Su and they were forced to stop yeah uh removing water from that lake so it's a complex issue we are working on it I can assure you uh of that I've been down there on many occasions and it goes even before Fay I I've been here for 30 years and I've seen it flood multiple times uh so this is the worst I think this last this time here but it is also along with the largest rainfall we we've had so thank George but we'll get it solved we're working on it thank you the the thing that I see when I go there is if you look at historical pictures of of Miller Lake if you look at Google Earth if you look at pictures like in in the book that was presented today it was previously Miller Pond there's 100-year oak trees dying they don't they don't live live with in standing water so something is is very different now and the uh I think I recall um that the permit says that that we agreed to um that if there's any adverse effects that it it can be stopped and that it needs to be looked at and altered is that not is that not true I believe that's standard language in any St John's permanent that's is where there's an adverse effect um there's an adverse effect so I think Mr Robbins is is correct um we need to deal with this perhaps isn't a agenda item but they don't have that long I don't know if we have two weeks we're we're pumping out pumping into DeBry but we're pumping in at the same time or it's flowing in at the same time um I don't know if we can have a uh um um a special meeting or even just have um the county manager discuss this um today with St John's with their new director and and make sure I'm assuming that they have a brand new director correct at St John's Water Management District m not a director but in charge of the board oh well the board right the board doesn't handle the dat today but yes they're aware U Mike register is the uh executive director we definitely deal with him and and uh they've already got uh their Basin management specialist uh cam uh Dewey uh PE who is in charge of this all over their District um they're aware and uh ultimately you know the permit is held by the city in St John's and I think they are are watching uh the they're monitoring the situation we'll talk to them see what they feel uh needs to get done and again we're working on Solutions but it will require because it is uh permitted by St John's it'll they'll have to concur as as well as the city I I would also note you know to your point you look at historical Aerials and you look and for the most part that lake has been you know dry it fluctuates it goes up and down but in a similar event to Milton the one you know the one measuring stick we have is tropical storm Fay and it was a very similar amount of rain it just tropical storm Fay was a similar amount of rain over two days versus Milton which was one that Lake staged up virtually almost identical to what we have now it you saw the same types of occurrences 1792 washed out why because big lot's Pond staged up and where did it try to go it tries to go to where it historically has well I've gone back and looked at historical aals the Big Lots Pond the Wawa pond have all been there uh going way back uh as natural features and so it's it's like a a bowl Cascade of bowls that eventually work its way to Miller Lake and the one uh event that is most similar to Milton was Fay and during Fay and we had a very similar typee response in that Basin and the water staged up very similarly to the point where that was the impetus for uh looking at what we could do that was the impetus for purchasing those properties and knowing that that type of event could occur in the future creating the additional capacity uh in that Lake that um without it would have led to a a worse situation out there what year was Fay 08 08 um I'm not going to argue with you I I don't know what it look like in in 08 I'm I'm seeing the corner of my eye I see the residents back there shaking their head no that it wasn't this high in in fave we we we actually had a study commenced that showed that documented the water levels um after and during Fay and then we have historical areals that can show talked about water being over Miller Road and things um so yeah I'm not saying they're identical but I'm saying they are very similar and you saw you know and to me the evidence is 1792 I mean you don't see state roads get cut in half by water very often it's happened twice and it's happened at the same location with with all du respect to to Ron City I think they don't know where to put the water anymore so this is this is their probably the only solution they see and and it is causing an adverse effect and I St John's ar City and valua are we're going to have to come up with a different plan because we are taking their property um councilman Dempsey yeah just kind of to follow up what Danny was saying I mean I do plan on having another town hall we had the basic overview of the Westside flooding town hall meeting um but I discussed that we're going to have more if in Ben I think was an agreement to it and Clay um have more uh specialized meetings folks focusing on just one area I do want to have just one town hall just about Miller Lake so it would be more in a a more relaxed forum and uh hopefully have more updates we're still waiting on a lot of studies to come back and I'm curious to see you know about NRA's recommendation and all that as well so I just I do want to have another town hall I don't know if we need to put it on the agenda that'd be fine I don't care either way but I am planning on trying to organize another town hall in the near future just for Miller Lake okay thank you thank you uh councilman Johansson yes sir thank you uh is there any Merit I guess this goes to George is there any Merit to uh Council um uh writing a letter or or or making a motion approval letter to send to the the governing bodies who who are responsible um these the these folks are coming to us and and I'm hearing that it's not us it's kind of St John's maybe fdot in Orton city um um but but they're not going there they're coming here and looking for help would it benefit us at all other than to make us feel good to send a letter to them do you think that between the the director at St John's and the and the secretary at fdot and and and the city manager in Orange City that that you're getting the time and effort required to get this resolved quick we could send that letter I I would say uh we are working with them now I I would I would have to defer to Ben on do does he feel like they're being responsive because he's the one who's actually on the ground doing the work uh I've heard of no push back uh from them I think they're all aware they're all have been working with us I believe it was the Department of Transportation to help really broker the deal uh with the city uh of DeBry because they actually have agreements uh in place uh for their water and and that's what allowed us to uh U get the Department into that Deber system so um Ben do you want to take a crack with them first I what I would say is you know when it came to the slle gate operation you know the city was responsive and we met out there with the property owner and the gate was closed um you know I understand the concern with the flow that's occurring now which is basically groundwater through their uh xville system um what I've said I believe I said it Mr Dempsey's town hall and and um what I what I think is needs to to be looked at is some sort of permit condition that when the water Miller Lakes at a certain point you know looking at a way to maybe restrict that flow or stop it um so I think that's that's the answer I haven't had any you know had that solves the next problem right and and you know doesn't sound like bringing a bunch of water trucks in and pumping out of Miller leges going to do anything it's going to fill up the next day so is is there any is there any if cost wasn't an issue is there any short-term solution to to get these folks to be able to walk in their backyard in the near future you know when this first started and you know we were getting lots of requests to start pumping and and the issue was and it wasn't just there it was multiple locations you know trying to find a place to put the water without either harming somebody else or and what what I was pretty consistent about saying was given the the pump sizes you know available and and and the scope and size of Miller Lake it's a simple volume calculation running those pumps continuously you're looking about an inch a day of drawing it down that's kind of what we're seeing you know give or take you know dry conditions obviously um if we get some rain it changes so you know as Mr reonal mentioned you know when it comes to pumping um it it's a viable solution but it's not something that moves a lot of water versus a gravity pipe and you know we've we've worked worked with we've been in constant communication with the Water Management District Orange City and right now the only viable place to put water right now is through the dot system and down into the Barry so we're moving it as fast as we can uh to try to to try to get that water down as quick as possible it's it's really the constraints of the system I mean if money is not an option you know you could build a giant Force man and and move more water with Giant pumps but you're also it's important to understand how that water is getting there it's it's going from Miller Lake through a do pipe to a pond that DeBerry then pumps from that pond to to into their system so you you you've got a constrained system all the way down to essentially where Final Destination is and and uh that's a very large expense if you were to try to speed that up in terms of the amount of water you could move got it so so we're stuck with what we have in the short term in the short term for sure I think I think longterm having a system that can create capacity in advance of a large storm and then move the water out afterwards would be the ideal situation is and is is Miller like going down or is it maintaining because of that that xfill and been going down it has been going down um okay um do we have any anticipation when it's going to be back to regular all things considered months couple months we continue with a pump all right thank you uh councilman Troy Kent thank you chairman um so these people that came and spoke to us today the number 91 jumps out in my head 91 days they've been dealing with this now I'm hearing a couple more months before things get back uh to normal Ben quick question for you the water that's pumped into Berry what do they do with it it goes into a uh a borrow pit down by the energy plant it's a large hole in the ground essentially so you know when it when it's dry and we're in a drought nothing we can do except you know hope God relieves that drought but in this situation and Ben can't always give us good news I don't like your answer but that's not your fault it's just the answer that it is but your live have been radically changed so I'm going to ask something pretty radical here what do we have to do as an elected body to I don't care if we have to contract with thps and pumps and you said it pumps down an inch a day then we need to we need to get 12 times the pumps and get it 12 inches a day but what do we have to do who do we have to get approval from and does it have to come from the governor because all drains lead to the ocean and we don't want to flood anybody else that's not what I'm saying and this is radical what do we have to do to pump considerable millions of gallons of water a day out of Miller Pond AKA biller Miller Lake now what do we have to do to get that into the St John's river which will then go to the ocean so right now it doesn't go to the river um I know because we're not allowed to pump to the river that's my question what do we have to do cuz I think we should I think that's what we need to do we have to get we would have to get permission from the water Manion District to pump to the river we would have to construct I mean either run multiple large temporary pipes miles um you could either run it Due West through private prop you have to get permission from private property what I love about this what I love about this radical idea is it's already got your mind thinking about it about pipes and talking to private property and that's my whole point in this is what do we have to do to get that water into the St John's and get it out in the ocean cuz on the east side where live it all goes into the Halifax River they pump it there it goes there storm water whatever and heads out to the Atlantic Ocean through ponts Inlet or matanzas Inlet and I think that and it may not be viable but George what do we have to do or Ben to make something like that happen I I think you need to let us deal with it with the engineers because there'll be a lot more into consideration you're going to start talking money of millions of dollars and then you're going to have to start asking the question about the value of the homes that are there versus uh making that engineering feat that you're talking about so uh I think like I said we are working on a on a a solution now Ben's been talking to the Department of Transportation they're looking at alternate routes so that they don't have to go all the way through the DeBerry system the constraint really as he's saying you can't you can't have a giant pump at that end and a small pump at the other end so uh the solution is to eventually get it to the St John's river but it has to be in a in a way that again the system can handle it all the way down but it would be a mammoth system as he said you would have to go uh and by the way we did a different type pump years ago but the problem is where we pumped before now has a buiness subdivision there because they did pump over the hill uh one of the previous storms because it's more than just Fay he he's talking about Fay because that's what he's familiar with uh I go back to uh tropical storm Gordon which is in uh in his chart you'll see later as in the 1900s so uh George I know it's not lost on you but 91 days that's what's on my brain right now 91 days for a ton of closed basins around the west side abolutely absolutely and there's issues on the east side as well but they're here right now and they're talking about this and they didn't just show up today they've been coming they've been talking about it and and I appreciate that we're it sounds like we're in the process but the process is going to take a longer time which is what none of us want to have happen please no public participation during this discussion were you were you finished okay uh just a couple other quick questions Ben if we if we completely shut off the water that's running under 17 where does it pile up in ar City it would stage up in the Big Lots Pond to a point where it eventually go over 1792 into Miller Lake okay how long like it did when it during Fay and Milton when it cut the road and when right how long is deberry's pumping into uh um is it a barrow pit during tropical storm Fade to bar experienced significant amount of flooding they deal with closed Bas as well they spent upwards of 30 million plus dollars using I mean it wasn't all their money they received some grants and everything but they have a pumping system they ran into the same issue that um uh is not being able to pump to the river so they acquired a large borrow pit and to pump to um during these events and actually during the reason we didn't start pumping earlier is because during Milton that barl pit actually filled up and they had to stop is it filling up now it the rate at which the water is going in it's able to to percolate how long is DeBry willing to do that they have not given us a time when they're wanting us to stop I mean obviously we monitor the level in the uh borrow pit to make sure we're not overfilling it and what about the acreage directly behind um Miller Road you mean to the west to the West uh that's privately owned by that that TV antenna there's a TV antenna there it's it's private property um and then further west is I think some property owned by the power company there's a solar farm you have the railroad track and then eventually you get to the river what would I know there's hurdles to jump through to be able to pump it there but what would happen if we pumped it to that acreage west of there right now uh the way that the Topography is there's a low point at the southwest corner of that property that AB buts I think it's homes in DeBerry Country Club those homes were uh the Water there now without pumping any water from Miller Lake was right up against the proper that's the solution I spoke of before that we used back in uh 1990 seven so when we how do we make that happen then we were working well well we can't because they build a subdivision that was be that predates the uh uh golf and country club right so you know whenever we pump even under emergency conditions we still have to get emergency authorization from the Water Management District when you're moving water from one Basin to the other um that location was literally the first location we looked at to move water to and it was I mean we were both in agreement with the Water Management District and us that sending water there risked flooding homes because there was water literally lapping at the back of their properties right there well there are there is a lot of undeveloped acreage behind there west of but you're saying if we pump there the Topography is such that that if you pumped it just over the hill it would flow down to that point that we're talking about it's like a hill you know so whatever we do we're going to flood somebody if you pump there there's a high risk that you could flood other people the county manager keeps referring to the engineers what is that Engineers from St John's are Engineers or from the state of Florida or who are the engineers we're working with staff from the dot uh Orange City and the Water Management District on you know Solutions um the do has a vested interest in Miller Lake because they have a retention Pond immediately adjacent to it um so we're in discussions with them about knowing that this has happened multiple times to try to come up with a location where we can move water in the future without restriction of you know uh basically a known place where we can move water uh knowing that during these types of events there's a lot of difficulties doing that okay um Don I hope that you will pull your a special town hall and Miller as as as quick as possible and let's invite uh St John's Water Management District last time you had city of Delan I think this is the next logical step but I I like Troy's idea if we're not filling up this borrow pit let's pump as rapidly as we can in in there um and and then we need to I think it was councilman Santiago that referenced the Big Lots um you know we I think we're going to have to buy that the Professional Center um uh councilman Robbins thanks Cher I'm going to go ahead and make a motion I think it's a wise decis decision to support Mr Johansson's um letter just as a motivation uh to express our uh concern with our our cities and the state agency that's responsible for this also to to have staff come back with several options um uh and give them an opportunity to be uh methodical and Collective about this they have multiple jurisdictions and agencies involved in this this is not a decision we can uh thoroughly make today um but I would be willing to uh have them come back maybe the end of February first meeting in March uh with an update of what they have and a uh options or a game plan going forward who's the letter to whether it's the dot in the St John's um and orange city city okay to F do uh ar City and St John's okay we have a motion for the letter is there a second second it motion by Danny Robbins second by David Santiago okay all in favor of writing and sending that letter say I I any opposed okay um did you have anything else Jared did we want to have uh staff come back uh just as an update to these folks here I know we have their contact information but just a lot of this too that we that that for frustration from the public comes in is they just don't know kind of what we're doing can we give them an update we all have their their their emails if not we can we can get it but maybe uh first meeting in March uh can we come back with some options here give you guys some time because this is a very complex costly initiative and and and I want people know if we're going to do I want to do it right and and solve be very Target specific with our our time and our money and we can bring some cost back and and kind of do a you know a lot of the times these things are you know there's a cost benefit analysis involved where you compare the cost to uh account for this with the cost of you know damage to structures and things like that I think that would be appropriate I I think you're exactly right uh councilman Robbins but I think when this when the people that are here here U even February or March I think they I think it worries them do they have that much time is is it possible to we have a special meeting on on flooding and and um moratorium next week could we get it anything more there at that meeting right now we're constrained it's not just it's a matter of like hooking up a bunch more pumps you're constrained by the size of the pipe that you have to move the water through um we can reach out and see the pipe that goes under 17 no the are you talking about stopping the flow I'm sorry are you talking about pumping more water out of the lake or are you talking about stopping the flow into the lake or both both but right now I'm referring to pumping water out of Lake we we can um reach out to the the permitting agency and see if they have any plans to to address that as far as uh modifications to the Royal Oak system and then when it comes to pumping more water I mean again you can add more pumps out there but you're restrained by the size of the pipe physics and I'm not trying to stifle what you said I think it's a it's a good idea I'm just worried about the time frame when well what what chair what we have on our side granted this I I do understand um a little bit of the predicament that they're in thank God uh it is we're going into our dry season granted that's no guarantee uh but I want this just like you and everybody else we want to resolve this as quickly and as methodically and make every move count uh if we want to rush this I can almost assure you because government's involved it's going to be disaster if we rush it I think we need to when I say rush it um we need to have the appropriate municipalities and everybody on board and make sure we we we we make every step count I don't think um they can do in effective job even though I have a lot of confidence in a week especially with a moratorium discussion um let's can we can we get some information back in 30 days or less okay I'm happy with that and I think we can make uh come up with some good suggestions and and and uh on where we go forward councilman Dempsey yeah in in that um report could we actually maybe explore the possibility of acquiring chairman uh dabbed on the uh aerial Tower to the west and it's a large track of land but if it's not going to work it's not going to work but there's also a large track to the north um of Miller Road Behind These effect some of these uphill properties is it uphill yeah and there's no way of I mean we can look at it I I can look at it and see and see if we could you know if there's property that would be conducive to moving water to acquiring property is going to be key and lot of Solutions again we're talking I know today right now you're talking about Miller Lake but you got a dozen of these probably around right now and yes acquiring properties is going to be have to be part of the I've said that I think when this began uh is going to be part of the solution uh in several instances so yes that'll be considered we'll take a look at properties uh and and routes that maybe we can uh get uh to the lake uh to the river I know we maybe can do this under the guise of infrastructure out a lot of this Federal funding that we're getting I think we're getting you said another potentially 100 million as a result of the last storm in that neighborhood hopefully um so I just want to make sure that we're well we get more money but remember that all that money has strings and also has income uh yes uh so I don't know that the income is in and around that area so has to be used in lowincome areas so we'll we'll take a look okay all right thanks okay um thank you for you were done done yeah I'm done okay um we'll Al I can say to the people that have come in we everybody up here has heard you will continue to push um I don't know if time is on your side it depends on what the weather does um but we we need to get it resolved before you know northeasterly or certainly before next hurricane season because it's not working thank thank you for coming in um all right uh we'll move to item four um approval of the uh rest of the agenda move to approve David Santiago moves to approve the agenda the second by Vice chair Matt Reinhardt any discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and the motion carries 7 to zero um consent agenda does any uh council member have an item they would like to pull for discussion or a vote uh David Santiago uh pull for discussion A and B the leases yeah just to discuss we can still vote on it yeah so just for discussion on A and B okay Mo move approval uh the consent agenda as proposed second Johanson okay we have a motion to approve uh the agenda by councilman Kent and second by councilman Johanson uh we will discuss items A and B but all in favor of the consent agenda as written um say I I any opposed agenda is approved 7 to0 and we will look at items A and B good I can go yes I'm sorry yeah thank you Mr chair um just because constituent brought it up you know the leases can you explain these leases these are Revenue leases right can you just tell us yes these are both uh Revenue leases the first one is for our Gateway Center that we just purchased uh that we're moving lease Lewis N I think when we first talked about it I thought we would be probably about a year until we had a a a tenant in um but we had someone we're working with SVN and uh Carl Lun and he secured someone for the Habachi gril to move into a vacant space that in all honesty is in terrible condition it hasn't been occupied probably in 5 to 10 years they're going to pay for the renovation and we are giving them a break on the rent and then we are that we are charging them a very um good rate for them to move in that covers all of our expenses ongoing and we'll have a good tenant so between the both of these roughly A and B we're bringing in Revenue to the count about $100,000 a year AB absolutely that's all I needed thank you okay so you're good for B2 yes sir that was for both yeah okay all right thank you very much much thank you chairman may I uh you may thank you and um councilman Santiago I'm glad you brought that up and and John thank you because you mentioned earlier we should be making money this was one of the reasons why I was okay with this deal uh staff told us approximately 17 years before we recoup all of that money but then guess what it starts making money for our taxpayers instead of just us renting and leasing things out you know we are now the landlord um I had a lot of questions for staff about this and I'm satisfied with all of them my only discomfort and it's not you George is that the way this is written we've already approved it we voted yes it's done but I just wanted to publicly say it is that this is a fiveyear lease and then afterwards it gives the county manager an opportunity to approve two more five-year leases and it's nothing against George I just think whoever's sitting in these rented seats it would be a good idea for them to put eyes on it just just to have eyes on it and U the motion yeah I I'd like to if that's okay even though we approved it um chairman it would be a new motion I guess right just yeah just because this is a little sticky because we we did approve that um but I would feel more comfortable I'm okay with the five years but after five years I would like for it to come before County Council for them to put eyes on it and give it their seal of approval for maybe another 5 years you know whatever I just think you know 15 years years before this comes back before a council is a long time so are you okay if I make a motion to reconsider that since I think it's probably what I have to do Mike is that what I have to do Mr Dyer yes sir okay so I'm going to make a motion to reconsider item a second okay let me get back to item a and the the motion is by Troy Kent and the second was by David Santiago to reconsider a that at the end of the lease we get to and do you want that for any lease this is the only one I know that we have and I would like for it to go with all of them George is a smart guy George will make sure moving forward that all the other leases would come back and say that I'm assuming otherwise it would be a healthy conversation privately with George about this is what your council is saying why aren't we doing this so if we if we can get a approval for the reconsideration chairman I'll work on the language up here to get it fixed cleaned up so that it comes back before this Council okay yeah just to clarify I think it's a seven-year term with a fiveyear uh two fiveyear extensions W so Mak for clarification it would be coming back in at the end of seven years and then Council would approve it for the next five oh Mr Kent you could just make the motion to have that removed from the release and we would amend it and then automat aut atically it would just come back here before the council for a lease renewal at the end of its term you just make the motion to take that out perfect we just need to we need approval from this Council to reconsider it yes sir but thank you Russ I appreciate that for helping me clean that up okay first step is to uh approve the reconsideration um uh don did you have a question on that well after if we reconsider it I'm bring something up yeah uh all in favor of reconsidering item a say I I and opposed okay done done yeah I just I want to I don't know who's in charge of the contracts per se but um do we have anything in here to prevent mechanics leans um from being placed on the property during the buildout my biggest fear because I deal with this and so you get these guys with no money they have no stake money in the business and then what they do is they start hiring subs and getting supplies attaches to the building so it becomes subject to a lean and then they get buyers remorse they walk they take a walk after 6 months don't pay their subs and suppliers in our general contracts we have that language that you have to pay your subs and all that but as far as the mechanics leaning against County property they can't place a county lean against a count County property okay so we're making but we're going to make sure that the subs and the suppliers are being made whole um as the Project's going on is that right when we have a contract with with a vendor we will talk to the contractor about the subs if we get a complaint correct I'm wrong Janine no you're correct we have language in all our when we are dealing directly on a construction project with there is language in there that they have um if someone doesn't pay their subs then they have a way of coming back to us to help us mitigate that through the bonding process okay all right thanks Council mck Kent thank you chairman I'll make a motion to approve item a with um Russ help me out here we talked about approving item a and the cleanest way you mentioned was just deleting just remove the language in the lease allowing the manager to approve the next term yeah approve item a with deleting the language with the manager being able to approve the subsequent terms so by function it'll come straight to the Council next update yes for second Johansson okay the that motion is made by Troy Kent second uh by councilman Joe Hansson to remove uh that language uh allowing it to the county manager to approve the next lease that would come to the County Council any questions Don Dempsey oh no that was from last one okay sorry any other questions all in favor say I I any opposed and the motion carried 7 to zero okay okay item six uh Amendment to the volunteer fighter fighters pension plan to provide for plan termination and future transfer of benefit payments to insurance companies uh Ryan owski good morning County Council Ryan owski Chief Financial Officer before you you have the result of uh a lot of work in coordination that I do believe uh makes sense for the county at this point in time uh and was also uh before your volunteer firefighters pension Advisory board with their concurrence that such plan makes sense uh as a matter of background the volunteer firefighter Pension Plan membership has significantly declined through the years the plan has a substantial Surplus right now and that Surplus could be accessed for fire rescue District purposes uh if we were to proceed with this action um I've got some information on the steps we've taken today uh what's actually for your approval here is the amendment of the plan to provide a benefit freeze uh as of September 30th 2024 all active members were notified prior to September 30th 2024 so you're not uh taking an action today that they weren't already aware of would provide for the full vesting of all current participants and no new members would be accepted uh there's a couple other plan amendments that are listed here that I'm not going to go through individually I will highlight that one of the key things that we were that uh the volunteer firefighter pension Advisory Board as well as staff uh we're considering through this process is protecting the beneficiaries uh they were volunteering throughout the last um throughout their tenure as uh with the county and we want to make sure we honor what they were expecting to receive so one of those ways of protecting the beneficiaries is one making sure that they get everything that they're entitled to which we're doing and two making sure that if we do transfer this liability to an insurance company that that insurance company is going to be able to fulfill their responsibility and that the beneficiaries will get their payments no matter what to that regard I've got some information here we're going to follow the federal due diligence requirements even though we wouldn't have to because a public plan is not subject to the same rules that a private plan would be and then there's the state guarantee Association that also backs this up due to the modest benefits that were provided in this volunteer plan they would be completely also backed up by the state guarantee Association the implementation plan would uh after uh if if it's approved here would be the participant communication The Advisory board that I referred to has already reviewed the comprehensive information packets that would go out to the membership and it would explain their benefit options and that the members would have a 60-day uh decision period that decision would be uh do I want to take my benefits now because I know it's going to an insurance company or do I want to continue to wait and and file with the insurance company when I decide it's time to file with the insurance company cuz your benefits do change if you take it early or something like that so they would have all the same options that they would have today just through the insurance company uh the actuaries helped us determine uh what the insurance carrier selection process would be there is a competitive process they have a list of pre-qualified firms uh the membership will be provided that list I think it's 30 plus firm insurance companies that uh that would be um providing bids one of the key plan parts of this is during the insurance company transfer because of the time sensitive nature of pricing Insurance products and Actuarial products uh the the actuary has told us that the insurance carriers when they submit these bids are going to require a 24-hour turnaround so what we've proposed is that uh we will schedule an Advisory board meeting to occur the day after the bids are due and that The Advisory Board be delegated the authority to choose between the insurance companies uh the final steps after that implementation would be the transfer of the liability to the insurance car so we would pay for that uh recommended contract and then the insurance carrier would then take on the uh the payments that are that are still required to the remaining U membership we'd make sure we coordinate that so that they take on the payments after we make our last payment and there's no overlap or double payments or anything like that and then return of surplus to the fire rescue District fund would be the last step uh in order for the full Return of the Surplus to occur to the fire rescue district there was something I added on between the agenda that we previously uh where we had this and we had it continued forward to this meeting and that was uh we explored what I thought was going to be an administrative step of selling some of the stocks that the plan has uh I thought it would be easy it became a little more difficult and our current uh holder of those Securities which is Wells Fargo uh under a sa safekeeping Arrangement uh they will not they don't have the ability under the safekeeping arrangement to to sell these assets they're also not in the business of doing the active management of these types of plans so they they won't help us sell these assets our 457 plan which is the Deferred contribution that active uh employees um Can defer part of their salary to we have a consulting firm that helps us advise that uh they actually can they've come to the rescue and they've figured out how to make this work for us uh they've provided us an extra resolution that we would need to get delegated authority so that we can transfer those assets from Wells Fargo into Fidelity for the sole purpose of then having Fidelity who does work in this space sell those assets return the cash which then we would return back to the fire rescue District so that's not in the slides but it is in the agenda summary that that was the additional ad since the last meeting meeting um staff recommendation is to approve the plan amendments and proceed with the unwinding process and The Advisory board has supported this recommendation and has assisted with several of the steps along the way and with that I'll take any questions councilman Santiago not a question but a motion Mr chair okay move to approve second Jo Hansen councilman Santiago makes a motion to uh approve the transfer the second was uh by councilman Johansson are there any questions for uh Mr owski and that includes the delegation to The Advisory right that's actually part of the plan Amendment it's codified in the plan amendment I just wanted to call attention to that so that you were aware that was going on okay no questions any other questions comments all in favor say I I any opposed motion carry 7 to zero thank you very much item seven hold over from last meeting uh uh County attorney and County Manager annual performance evaluation move to post postpone again I'm joking till next year okay jeez and we do have um uh a public comment on this item I don't if y'all would like to hear that first before you begin what don't what why don't we do that you just lost two is that okay uh John Nicholson public comment on item seven John Nichol Theona beach side uh I've known George 30ish years give or take uh whenever the White Hall was remodeled um it's good that the public has an opportunity to hear what you think of our staff having gone through Denine uh Jim Chisum numerous other public officials um we've heard people come up and lambas George and uh whatever their particular problem is they extrapolate to the entire County um but when one looks at our uh attorney and our uh County manager if you look at the entire County we could not do better so um as part of the public that comes occasionally and sits over in the corner here and watches what's going on I think uh we are at our best and um I don't ask for a very large raise a little one tiny one would be good for the budget but uh accolades are definitely warranted thank you thank you uh councilman Santiago no I'm sorry that was an error Mr chair okay councilman Johansson thank you sir um I'll address uh both the attorney and the manager um under my comments here and then uh sit down with George and Mike separately and and we'll chat U as well I think that that we've we've had a a very good leadership uh in in George this year there are some things that we comed on last year that we asked him to take on board uh be a little more responsive uh give us a weekly updates um keep us more informed not that he wasn't before but but new new body we kind of got the hang of it the first year and said you know help us help you and uh I think all that stuff came to fruition um I've had a lot more philosophical conversations with George Suzanne and Mike during the during the year and and I very very very much appreciate that I would say some of you have changed my mind in some cases uh uh so I I do appreciate that that Cy conversation during our staff meetings um I think that that some things came up this year that that put staff in in kind of a pressurized uh cooker if you will to get things done and I know that's hard to get accomplished uh we just had one today you know you could see uh you could see the elected officials up here saying can't we do something uh and but nothing nothing can be done quickly in some cases uh when you deal with mother nature but I appreciate you taking that on and and I I know you got big shoulders but it it still hurts every once in a while when you can see the dissatisfaction um but but I do appreciate the the time and energy you spend um in getting stuff like that done so I I'll debrief you separately I forgot to send you the the comments here but uh most most everything all of everything is is high fours and and fives um Mike uh thank you very much for for for those little tweaks that you did for me personally uh my little idiosyncrasies with with legal and and in general uh what what council has asked of you um you have always been responsive as far as litigation we get those updates from you I get frequent phone calls from you uh and and uh I enjoy reading uh the the results from from your team um uh I'm sad to say I hope Laura Coleman's listening from where she is right now because I'm I'm sad that that part of your team uh has has disappeared but you've brought some new people on and uh the the one thing I appreciate is every once a while you see a new face and they're and they're kneed deep in the uh in the projects and and they seem to know what they're talking about right away so I appreciate that um I know it's hard to keep a team together together uh when when you're training people and mentoring people to be the best they can be and and the best they can be is not here anymore so uh but keep doing that and we can we can lament together but but I do appreciate that um one of the things that that I constantly ask your team to do is is provide us with with all options even the ones you utterly hate because they are options I I know that you make it known to us what you want us to do or what's what you think is best um but sometimes we don't want to do what you think's best we want to do something probably bad and and thanks for trying to change our mind but provide that option so so we know uh everything that that we could do uh we've had some challenging issues I think we've navigated them quite well um I'm not saying they've gone away but but they're they're definitely on the back burner for now so uh I appreciate all the work you and and Russ and and Kevin in the in the trenches have have done this year uh and and Paulo and everybody else so I appreciate it and I'll I'll spend some time with you and anybody on your team as well thank you chairman thank you uh councilman Kent thank you chairman I um I was surprised two years ago when I learned that uh our County manager and County attorney did not have an instrument to evaluate them with so um we talked about that I appreciate the instrument that we use now I think that this gives you I think this is beneficial to not only you but to the public and to this Council that it holds you accountable for the work that you've done but it also gives you a snapshot of what happened last year um from your boss's perspective and where some of us or where all of us are hoping we go in the future and um Council I'm going to go ahead and share both of these then I will give them to the clerk and I'll ask that you submit them into the record and of course they'll be public for everyone to see Mr re Wald I'll go over yours first and um the scale is one through five one being unsatisfactory two Improvement needed three meets expectations four exceeds expectations and five outstanding I'll try to go through this rather quickly leadership I have you at four decision making judgement I have you at five coordination I have you at five planning and organization I have you at four legislative five budgeting five financial management five job knowledge five adaptability five interpersonal relationships five community relations four motivation and Leadership five communicate under communication skills with the council five with the press four access five five activities five staff five residents business and the general public I have you at three council member observations George is doing a great job as our County Manager for 2024 the weekly briefings help keep the council up to date your ability to put the right people in the right positions has helped valua County this past year we've become more efficient and effective while keeping a low tax rate and keeping our County Services High any other comments I would like to see you hold quarterly meetings with the community in different locations throughout our County Mr Dyer you as well uh your ratings are from one through five one unsatisfactory two Improvement needed three meets expectations four exceeds expectations and five is outstanding your legal competency I have a five and for yours There's an opportunity to put comments underneath each of those so for those comments Mike's ability to find answers to everything involving County government is amazing problem solving and decision- making I have you at five Mike's ability to make good decisions quickly benefits fuchia County management and Department management I'm sorry of the Department of five Mike puts the right people in the right places to run his Department like a well-oiled machine management of litigation claims five Mike and his team show strength in this area management style five Mike has always been professional and fair in all interactions that I have witnessed interaction with the county manager five Mike and George work very well together this is a huge positive for valua County and I'll just add to that that's a big piece to this to all of us like the chairman mentioned earlier today and I'm so appreciative about a new fresh start and us working together if you've ever worked with a manager and a and an attorney that don't get along it's not a good thing and you've got to make a change and I'm so pleased that you all have a positive healthy professional working relationship relationship with the County Council Mike I have you out a five Mike helps Foster a positive relationship with me and I heard Mr Johansson say you know I appreciate those phone calls even if they're Friday evenings community relations and ethics I have you out a four mik Mike's ethics are a five plus I would like to see you in your office hold quarterly informational sessions for our residents around the county which is something I'd like to see which is why you're not five there Mike your ethics are a five plus but Communications a five Mike is a great communicator who gets me information quickly and then last one intergovernmental relations I have you out of four continue to work with our cities and state to Foster positive relationships council member comments Mike Dyer is a hard worker and smart attorney valuchi county is fortunate to have him leading our legal department your department is bombarded with legal issues daily and you do a wonderful job taking care of Luchia County keep batting a thousand I will give these to the clerk like I mentioned and I'm assuming at the end of everybody's we can talk about uh compensation so I'd be ready to help with that discussion as well thank you chairman counsman Santiago thank you m sure uh and and thanks Troy for uh going through that and being brief I was a little worried I was like oh my gosh but good job um I was going to give him a three if he went long and read every line joking it's going to be simple for me it's similar to last year uh George um yours it's almost repetitive for me you could just rewind the tape I can just play it again but um in my 20 plus years in serving the the public in different capacities I can honestly say this is the best team I've ever worked with um not perfect but the best team I've ever worked with um and uh I don't bug you much because I'm very confident in uh your leadership uh and how you run the county um and so it it makes my job easier from that perspective and I respect the role that we play uh it's your job to do the day-to-day and run the operations keep us informed which you do um if I ever have a question you're accessible to me um so thank you for what you do I got no issues with you and your team that extends to all of your people out there um and I appreciate the latitude you give us as elected uh to even interact with your staff you know everything goes through you and you allow us the latitude to still talk to your department heads and our jobs as electives is to know where that boundary lies right where that that the where where you would need to go to George um to get things done uh but the conversation is always great and it gives easy quick access to information and we don't want to just bombard you with every single minuscule question sometimes which your staff can answer for us so thanks for that great job Mike great job I'm I'm also scared of you know when I get those Friday evening calls from Mike Dyer I'm like oh gosh it's probably something not good and I um but you've been doing better with that you've been giving me good news sometimes in those Friday calls so thank you for that um the same thing goes to you and your team Mike I I've talked to other municipalities in our County um and and I have extended to them kind of sort of without your Authority so I'll confess that and say that we have an excellent legal team in the county and and i' I'd encourage I have encouraged other municipalities to reach out to you and your te team to get some advice and help sometimes and and they've done that and I'm very appreciative of that uh because at the end of the day we're all vucha County whether you're in the municipality or not so um your team on the legal side uh I enjoy our uh claims meetings conversations that we have uh it's always interesting to see how your team is um fighting for vucha County constituents to settle claims um sometimes weird claims I'll just leave it there that probably shouldn't be claims um but um our team in in the legal department uh the attorney was laughing over there right no we're looking for the hook cuz you're going longer than me am I you're longer than me I was looking for the hook to fool you but I don't want to interrupt I don't want give me a three uh but you know I I wanted the constituents to know that they fight for preserving our our treasury as much as possible so great job great team wouldn't be happier with anybody else so thank you Mr chair and thank you Troy for holding me accountable too point of order it's first time I get to say this Vice chair Matt Reinhardt thank you chair um actually I was glad Troy that I wasn't alone because I was I was going to get the hook from this side I I I I fully expected yours to go longer um a couple things I I think that Mr rehard I never would have said anything but San Diego sort of busted my chops right out of the gate so I thought it's a new year you know it's a new year I guess we're going to start this time to head in um I think this is a wonderful opportunity for these students first and foremost you're you're getting to see uh County government from swearing in to making decisions about uh tough topics listening to uh very concerned citizens about legitimate issues and an evaluation process for a county manager and a county attorney so this is a wonderful opportunity I think that uh I'm sure the teacher back there is thinking of ways to make a test about this I know I would I taught government for two years after my law enforcement career to uh Faith Homeschool Academy which is a faith-based classroom and I taught American government and American history and I took them to a city commission meeting and and I'm sorry I just put that bug in his ear if he wasn't thinking about it a test right afterwards about that so anyways but uh I think this is a wonderful opportunity so I commend you sir for bringing them here today and I commend you guys for for taking part of it so I don't want to get away from the topic at hand um I'm going to handle this a little different I just made some notes if you will and um the first thing you know I looked at talking about George um George and I have a longer history than probably anybody on this Council uh my 30-year career in law enforcement George was in public works uh and uh running a van doing a vantastic job and obviously uh was appointed to this position because of how how well you did and and I appreciate you 30 seconds I see this is funny so um I read the job description which was so brief uh the county manager who serves at the pleasure of the County Council executes the policies established by the County Council and oversees the daily operations of government blah blah blah uh much of what I'm going to mention uh obviously you're you have had a lot of successes just in the two years I've been here we all as a council have a lot of successes but where George will agree that success are these people right out here uh the people that you research and hire uh Mike the same thing applies to attorneys that you bring on so that is your strength that is your true strength is is making you successful we in law enforcement we had to promote a person to sergeant lieutenant or Captain you want the best possible people to make you look good and the these people make you look good so I I commend you for that um everything from preparing an annual annual budget to you know setting up council meeting agendas uh handling high-profile media issues uh overseeing approximately what is it 3,000 Personnel 2500 call me Li for 500 um overseeing hundreds of structures that we have to take care of and I commend you to name for the hard work you do as well um and the fact that you have to celebrate uh Ben's birthday almost every day I mean that's that's a job in itself so happy birthday Ben by the way um I commend you for your for your job I mean the airline the air our airport what a success we've had there just in the two years by bringing two air carriers uh moving Lisa Lewis I think that was a a very smart move um I could go on and on Dr bbal what you've done in community uh the relationships um the only thing I disagree with one person um and I'm going to make it a goal the next four years to get Ryan um to get Aaron uh to be a Florida State fan other than that I think we're we're doing good so enough enough fun but I I commend you for the hard work you've done um I'm like you uh I get a little scared when I get those phone calls from legal some whether it be Russ or Mike and I I cringe as well but you are doing a better job they are a little more positive so thank you I appreciate that that's all it was that's and and that it was close to the holidays when I got the good phone call so um so thank you so much for all you do and I I truly think that we are going to handle this issue uh with the flooding um it is a priority of all of us up here uh and I know that we'll work hard to get to that so I commend you for a job well done uh if I had the rate it would be in that four or five range for both of you thank you so much and uh look forward to uh continue to work with you councilman dempy yeah I'll um I'll just weigh in on the on the legal side of it since we kind of share professions um Mike I think I've known you before you were even a county attorney so we go way back Miss slack one of your assistant um attorneys her and I go way back Mr bledo and I go way back I think before he became a county attorney and I knew them just as one of their peers and in dealing with them both both opposing each other in cases and just seeing them at work and they were both fine attorneys and you were as well before even becoming County attorneys and then You' just jumped in so I mean Praises on George for hiring you and you or whoever for hiring everybody else I've been really impressed with Russ um anytime I have a question about a legal issue and uh it's like they always have an answer yesterday for instance I called s Miss slack just real quick at lunchtime about a legal issue and she had an answer like right on the spot and it kind of surprised me and once in a while I'll go back and even it surprises me to the point where I do my own research to make sure that I'm getting the right answer and it's always spot on Russ same thing with you I mean not only do you give it promptly but you give it accurately which I think is even more important um and yeah I get those Friday afternoon phone calls as well from Mike and I'm wondering well is this something I did did I screw something up or is an update of some sort but anytime it looks like we're going into a uh a Hot Topic or an issue he always makes sure I don't even have to call he just calls me and says hey just so you know the legal side of it he always kind of gives me that briefing unsolicited so I think that's I really appreciate that just to make sure that I'm on point you know a lot of these quasi judicial uh things that we do they're always quick to point out what our our roles are supposed to be in that function as opposed to just being a enal council person um so yeah I can't give you anything but full accolades on you and your staff and then George I I may rival you there uh Mr Reinhardt because I've known George too back since the 1900s and uh We've uh We've golfed together back then and so I've known him as well uh we did things as uh families together but that's not and then we kind of fell apart but it's now we're back reacquainted but no we did well it was a bad break I'm just kidding but no it's I mean George you juggle a lot of chainsaws and what I'm really impressed with is the way you always have an answer I mean no matter I'll ask you about certain things and it's not even like I'll get back to you or it's always You've Got A B C D and E you have all the options and then the collateral issues that may arise and I'm just impressed with how you're always prompt with an answer and it's like you're always moving forward you are always working behind the scenes you may not be out there in the media or during your meetings in the public necessarily but I know for a fact that you are working behind the scenes and I'm very impressed with that so I have nothing but Praises for both the county attorney and the county manager so I'll be brief am I under my time okay good thank you I think Matt so far gone the longest okay before I uh um recognize counc Robbins Troy Kent your name is up again yeah I uh I didn't see anybody else up and and I wanted if ever everyone was finished I wanted to talk about compensation so if if you haven't gone yet and if anybody else I'll wait chairman councilman Robbins did you want to I traditionally take care of um my accolades uh with staff behind the scenes but I will say uh publicly it's um I support everything my colleagues are saying you know we do have a good team um and the staff since day one helps us execute our messages and um and a lot of the You Know cover a lot of the topics that we obviously uh promised uh to our constituents that we would address and and without you guys uh we obviously wouldn't be here once or twice so Ju Just know that uh we all have our our different styles but I can almost guarantee you we all and I know I do I I really appreciate everything you guys do for us and support the county manager County Manager supports us um like Jake said sometimes we don't always like the answer but uh we always appreciate a straight answer and you can count on that from you guys so uh thank you um I don't know how some I don't know how a county staff doesn't need a a therapist sometimes by the the time of some of our meetings or or some of these weeks but uh uh I know sometimes I feel like I do and so I can just only imagine how you guys feel sometimes so thank you for everything and and uh I I don't get any calls on Friday so I don't know what that's about but we'll work on that so uh thank you guys please call him tomorrow Mike okay make sure it's 5:30 6 PM just so I don't feel like I'm only the special one okay at the at the risk of uh reversing what I started with this morning that started New Year together um and I don't want this to make that happen but I'm going to take a little bit different tact I I think I I must do what what councilman Robbins does and I use the same instrument that that you use and uh and that's that becomes public um record and um I will do that with each of you in in person but I'm um in Mike you and I have a meeting already set up although not a time yet for tomorrow uh for uh future Council to discuss future Council meetings and that's one of the things I want to talk about first I I do want to tell you Mike that you have there is no doubt that you have made your uh your office um at my disposal I ask you frequently for for meetings with constituents where almost always need an attorney there and there's not been an attorney on your staff that I can't go to unannounced and ask a question I I think the addition uh the promotion of Russ Brown to um uh your assistant County attorney was a mistake was one of the one of the best uh moves you made I I enjoy working with Russ uh feel like I I always get um straight answers from him I do want to for me there's three things that I want to mention that I would like to um see him Improvement on and and this comes from things some really tough we had a tough year last year some some tough issues um I would like to this is may be my perception uh it is my perception but I would like to see you work as hard to protect the the rights of of the people in Valia County um and their property rights as as you do to prevent lawsuits now as a county chair I get every lawsuit that comes in here they hand it to me and then I take it to your office we get sued numerous times a week so I understand um what you um what you have to do there we were you know and that your one of your main jobs is to prevent us from being sued um Bert J Harris comes to mind I I really want to see us see you be more aggressive on protecting our um constituents private property rights um again perception um I and I will I will take the effort to make this happen um I would like to see you um work um as hard with me on items that I personally place on the agenda as chair as you do for for any other item and the the the perception that I get and I we need to reverse this between you and I is that sometimes those items when they come before us it it feels like you have uh work against me and and I don't want to have that uh Cloud um between us probably the most serious um thing that that I think we need to work on is you know it's really important to me that we bring new business to Valia County and I feel like um what I witnessed in the whole the long drawn out process with uh city limits in Delon Springs um I think we could have done a a lot more to work with them we we lost a great business up there um and it it appeared to me that there was decisions made to actually um act as uh the prosecuting attorney against them that was not um not required and that that really uh disturbs me George you and I have always um worked well together um there's several things that I want to bring up everybody else has done all the good things I'm going to bring up things that I think you and I need to work on um better together and first one is you with the council um I think you know this I I want to see a comprehensive storm water plan that includes maintenance and includes the things that I I don't know how you can do how you can um um make the impossible happen because I've talked to I've talked to you I've talked to the director Mike register of St John's and and he's real clear with me we don't know where else to put water but I we need I I want to see a plan that shows before storms where we are planning to put water what equipment we have um we need a a comprehensive storm water plan that's that's clear to all of us clear to our cities that we can follow through um um I would also like to see better oversight of of our various departments and I'm we will you and I will discuss this specifically um code enforcement and public works and and here's why and it's it's my last it I've never detected this before and in the four years that I have been here and I I sit in agenda meetings you work really well with your directors and your directors carry out what you tell them to do um in my presence without question I'm sure they they you just have serious discussions with them um I think the uh uh um what I what I have detected in the last year that I have never seen before and it's I think it could be it's it's just it's just dangerous if if if I'm correct um and I think it results from the stress of what we're all dealing with with flooding and storms is it there seems to be a culture developing um in in Code Enforcement Public Works where the victims of our flooding have become the enemies you know I hear things said about people that I I think are just out of line and so I'm going to bring that up when it when it happens um more frequently but I I really would like to see that uh culture of um treating our constituents um my constituents or your constituents with the respect that they deserve um when they're losing homes when they're suffering problems they they bring it up we saw it here this morning with the Miller Lake they've been here numerous times um but we still need to treat them uh with respect and care and and I'm I'm detecting that um sometimes that's not happening and they're actually being being blamed and I I will sit down with the two of you in the next week um or or probably next week except for Mike he and I will do it tomorrow with the same written instrument that that uh Troy uses I don't know if if everybody's using that or not I think it's it hits everything that we need to do but um um I wanted to I feel like I need to bring out the my my greatest concern so that you can be uh prepared and we can have Frank conversations about this and and Troy I I know you're going to bring up compensation I'm just going to tell you now for the the reasons that I've stated for for both of them um I am I'm going to be a no vote on compensation on on increases um this year uh that takes us back to Detroit K thank you chairman and I am going to talk about compensation but before I do I I'll just say for me you didn't need to apologize to me chairman about you know kind of going against what you said I don't know that you did apologize but I'll just say um what you said today was totally appropriate I mean all of us are are public elected officials uh our employees are public employees and this is what is supposed to happen they're supposed to get public evaluations and uh the public supposed to hear about it because you know we need to make sure that uh they understand everything that uh that we're we're dealing with so I I appreciate your um your comments as well as everybody else's with that being said Council I'm going to do these separately um so the first one I'm going to do is our County manager and our general employees received a 5% raise effective I think September 28th October 1st I I my motion is to give George the exact same raise that our general employ EMP received which was a 5% increase retroactive to October 1st second okay we have a motion on the floor to raise the county manager's pay by 5% um retroactive to when October 1st the same as our general employees and it's the same raise that our general employees received as well and David you seconded that second by councilman Santiago uh Troy your name is up because you're talking councilman Johansson I I have a just a quick comment I I've got no problem with the motion but uh um take a look at what our County Manager currently makes in that little uh that little diagram there and take a look at what Daytona Beach's city manager makes it amazes me that that the Tona Beach's city manager makes that much more than our County Manager does now our County Manager I I kind of glanced through durite research the the other counties and and by and large most of it makes sense uh but but boy that's a lot of money for Daytona Beach um they do a lot I understand it but uh it's interesting to me um and that's that's my only comment thank you motion on the floor is to uh increase the pay by 5% all in favor say I I any opposed um I you want to continue Mr Kent yes I do if that's okay now I'd like to talk about our County attorney uh Michael Dyer I'm also making a motion to to increase Michael Dyer's pay the same as the general employees 5% retroactive to October 1st 2024 and the same same motion and same second by councilman Santiago uh any questions all in favor say I I any opposed I both uh both compensation raises are approved um six to one Mr David Santiago thank you Mr chair I just as we lead into um this next topic which is probably going to be lengthy I suggest we uh break for our break shortly good point sports complex and then the um yeah several items after it it is 11:45 um and you you are clear with lunch okay um then we will take uh could I just make one quick yes I'm sorry I didn't see your name yeah I just I absolutely uh appreciate all the great comments uh and it will take everything very seriously uh and I'm always there to improve myself but I really wanted to uh make sure I also thank my team because as you correctly pointed out we we are a great team it is what uh people have asked what Legacy project or whatever I would have here it is these people it's the great team that uh we have assembled and I'm very proud that uh I get to be the coach I like to use a lot of sports uh analogies but I get to be the coach of such a championship team and I do appreciate that and Mr chair I do look forward uh meeting with you as well oneon-one and we'll we'll have out uh your comments and I appreciate uh the cander and I look forward to Improvement this year thank you thank you uh Michael Dyer sure uh I be remiss also not thank my team and uh I appreciate positive comments about former members of the team as well um I love the county at one point for another position and um that's always a challenge you know to balance you have you build up good people and you want them to have opportunities and sometimes they have those opportunities that's great um one of the things that's been I I've mentioned this in my year in report that's been important to me is having good relationships with our cities and having those conversations uh with our city attorneys much like George does and Suzanne with the county managers and we've started that we have a regular meeting with um the city attorneys and that's really just been invaluable because we're dealing with issues largely the same sometimes we have differences of opinion but that's few and far between and we started it during covid and we've continued to do that and it's just been real valuable I appreciate you the council being supportive of allowing me to do that um we've started hosting calls with our County attorneys because uh our state level organization has discontinued them uh and that's been fantastic I we had a meeting with about nine counties a few weeks ago and it was one of the best conversations I had because sometimes there's things that come up you don't want to put in an email or you wouldn't talking about the meeting because we're all dealing with legal issues um and I appreciate what you what you've all said um and I realize also with Mr Brower with of the things you said I would like to have a conversation with Council about some of those um because code enforcement I used to handle our code enforcement board when I was first with the county uh code enforcement Animal Control some of the toughest positions you can put your staff or your attorneys in someone is always unhappy um and so the state law provides a process where most of our cases go to our code enforcement board when they relate to a property issue and if there's a fine issued there's a lean that goes against the property some of the things your ordinances uh deal with that are less common are behavioral issues like noise and uh I can't tell you the number of times you have somebody that is facing a violation and they think staff's against them why you going after me and you haven't gone after someone else and I can tell you uh you know Sabrina slack and Chris Ryan uh work very hard on those and one of the noise ordinances are very difficult cases to bring maybe the most difficult code case we can bring because it's based on sound and you have to measure them and if you can't measure it you have your ordinance allows you to get an affidavit from a neighbor who is unhappy uh with a neighbor and so we look at it and just like an assistant State Attorney or prose security you look well you know does have they presented enough evidence to bring a case forward or not and if there is enough evidence uh at least in the allegation we bring It Forward what is important to me is not whether somebody violated or not is that we treat people equally and don't play favorites on that and we don't so if we're getting complaints um you know from a policy perspective I appreciate all of you you pass a variety of rules we can get rid of those rules but if you've adopted the rules and you have them on the books not just your lawyers but your staff is supposed to enforce them and I appreciate that all of you are elected and make those decisions and may not always have common agreement on them but I want you to know that we take that responsibility um seriously and um if we are acting on a code enforcement case is because we got a on a noise issue for example we get an affidavit that's been given to the Sheriff's Office office and the Sheriff's Office gives that to us um if you are ever feeling that our code needs to be changed or you want to regulate something differently that's what we and staff are here for to talk about um you know uh there are things in our zoning uh our ordinances that perhaps I don't personally agree with but that doesn't doesn't matter you know the council's adopted them it's the law of the County so I just want you to know that because I think that's important and I realize code enforcement is one of those issues that uh can get upsetting um because at the end of the day you're talking largely about neighbor disputes um in your county is getting involved and Mr BR I just want you to know that uh anytime you want something on the agenda as chair under the charter we're here to talk to you about it and available to work with you you have my commitment on that um I also realize that uh I have to give a legal advice to the all of council the ups and downs I try to be good about that because listen I realize I am not an eighth member of council I have staff and uh I know some sometimes with other governments I've worked with in the past those accusations are made well staff's do powerful the attorneys interject himself I just want you know I work very hard I do not want to be that way you know I want to support you and I thank each of you for your roles because you have a tough position I don't have to run for election I work for you but um and I don't have to make those policy decisions and I think in this day and age it's probably the most challenging environment to be an elected person so thank you for your service and I appreciate your input today thank you um it is 11:53 we will break uh until uh 12:30 e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e uh started in 60 seconds right y yeah okay we will resume the uh County council meeting everybody's here and we are on item eight uh presentation by staff for the uh Sports Complex development and the options there that the uh Council had previously requested um Tim go ahead yes good afternoon Mr chair honorable County council members I'm Tim Bailey I'm the parks recreation and culture director uh today before you we're going to be looking at the Bennett development and op and operation options uh on your first slide there you'll see this is uh what council directed staff uh to look into uh in moving forward and then uh next slide here okay so you've seen this slide or the um the on the right hand side of your screen you've seen this before this is uh the Hunden Sports con or Hunden Partners concept plan so what we did was we looked we broke this down into two phases phase one uh you would have four uh artificial turf multi-purpose fields and then you'd have two rectangle natural grass fields on the bottom of your screen you'll see these are the types of activities that you can play on the uh on the artificial turf which is variety of different sports could be played on the artificial turf and then uh on the rectangular uh fields we would not play football on those types of fields typically it tears them up pretty good so you'd be playing those on the artificial turf uh Fields uh grand total uh is 21 21.7 million for Phase 1 17.26% one in that picture so um if you look at the U on the upper right hand or the left right side of your screen uh the four uh rectangular or artificial turf fields would be in the upper leftand corner of that concept plan and then the two artificial turfs would be uh or two uh natural grass fields would be uh on the bottom of your screen and you could pick each whatever two you'd like to to settle on we could go either way again this is a concept plan this might not be the final destination once we uh Lay It All Out going talk te y so one of the one of the things we'd like to point out is so this is a a you know the the finances here in terms of you know we felt when we came to you previously there was a little sticker shock and so we've provided an option for a phased approach we do not have to do a phased approach one of the things would we would be remiss if we didn't include here is this does not include the cost of a getting over Veterans Memorial Highway uh if we decided to do something other than a crosswalk so if we did a pedestrian bridge or under you're you're looking about $2 to5 million based on what we provide so that was not included and I want to uh include that as a good public servant giving you the all of the data yeah because on the opposite side of the the road there there's an additional eight Fields so you'll you'll have the uh the 12 Fields here plus the eight if this was developed uh with 12 Fields as you as you see it before you okay um looking at the the defining the local need currently uh we've got approximately 115,000 users at the existing Sports Complex in Orange City uh if we went all the way to develop uh that concept plan we'd add another 44,000 to give you approximately 559 th000 user or participants uh on the on that field or that sports complex and it would then be the busiest Sports Complex in fuchia County uh in terms of the performer this is just a reminder where we were um with Hunden uh would generate approximately 1.3 million in Revenue 1.7 in expenses and the economic impact would be 14 million is that annual I'm sorry Mr CH just in one y That's annual okay y uh and then that facility Staffing summary this is also as presented by hund in the left side of your screen are their operations positions that's really focusing on tournament marketing developing Sports Development in the in the southwest fuchia County and then on the right side of your screen those are your onfield maintenance workers uh this is the potential funding sources that you have available to you um the naming rights and development rights would be under private Partnerships there's also legislative grants uh federal and state grants and City Partnerships which I will elaborate a little bit on the uh the back end of this and plus you also have Echo and bonding up to 40 million and then we just wanted to give you the relative uh advantages and disadvantages of public and private uh you see those laid before you um there's also a hybrid where you can have public and private maybe The Best of Both Worlds and then uh the four development options and I'm going to go through each one of those independently and on the first one your uh public this is be an example of a public publicly developed and operated maintained facility good example of that would be the Apopka sports complex which uh staff has visited and talked to the the leadership out there um this would be this example would be the county would be developing uh the site as well as maintaining uh the a uh the the artificial turf and the uh natural grass plus uh we we would explore options to provide League marketing and Tour Tournament Administration and management and under model two uh this would be an example would be publicly developed and then privately operated and maintained uh you'll see boomba Sports Complex on the uh right side of your screen they partner with perfect game they developed uh the site using public funds uh and they bonded those uh funds uh and so right now that would be a good example of of a publicly developed facility uh using and then using the private sector to operate and maintain the operations part of the facility they still use County staff to maintain the facility and then under model three this is a county and City partnership so we did meet with all the cities in Southwest fucha County Orange City uh Delona and DeBry uh on option a uh City of Deltona would provide or could provide land um it's off of Abigail Drive approximately 45 Acres it would allow for six diamonds three rectangular fields and eight pickle ball courts is what their concept plan dictated on that 45 Acres uh and then if the if they partnered with the county on developing that that particular site they would maintain the site in its entirety and then under option b uh we met with the city DeBerry uh they uh uh they wanted to stick with uh the existing vacant land uh across from Bennett however there needs are a little different um they're looking at uh a gymnasium they they uh did not were not successful in in building it in their City uh so if the county added the gymnasium to part of that uh Sports Complex then they would uh uh maintain the facility it's in its entirety all right and then uh the last Model uh is a hybrid public private partnership through the sports facility development management entity so this would be where the county of valou would uh partner with a sports industry leader that would bring together public and private entities for fors sports facility development and management a good example of that would be uh they could package a a program together with the private sector bring in hotels restaurants um other uh shops and venues in addition to the sports complex to make it uh a venue right um and that that using their expertise to partner or to package all those things up uh they would it would be a fee for service right so we'd bid that out we'd select an entity to help partner with us to put that package together uh and that's the um that would be and a good example of that would be a P3 or a public private partnership uh for you know selecting a an entity to put that package uh together that might that and in in my opinion you see a lot of sports venues going this way uh Statewide and Nationwide they're put putting these packages because there millions of dollars and uh using uh Public public monies as well as private monies you have a better venue so with that um I could take any questions looks like you have a lot before I go to the council Michael Dyer your name is first I think Russ pressed my button up behind my back sorry about that after I just said he was a great appointment okay okay uh councilman Reinhardt Vice chair Reinhardt I'm sorry thank you chair um Tim we first off we had already discuss this as did uh Brad and myself just to when the public was looking at this we looked at the BMX facility you know I have heartache over that i' I'd like to see us better utilize the uh funds for what we currently have on the BMX uh facility off of Strickland the hotels are over here I wasn't aware we talked about this briefly this is more so to educate the public on that question because I was getting a few emails about that um and I think you know investing in what we already have is important so removing that with that remove that aspect of that drawing yeah that's correct uh that concept plan had the BMX and as well as a gymnasia in there there was a small so but uh that BMX was pulled out per Council Direction before and uh to with the intention of uh improving the existing facility uh at par I'm glad to hear that um the next thing you you made the comment uh when councilman Santiago asked the question about it being an annual revenue of 14 million if just to argument sake and I'm familiar with the Abigail Drive area um is that on the North or South side of Normandy because one side is a lot of residential there is a school down there yeah um and then on the other side it's really really low uh it dips down to an old retention area that's down there um so I was just curious as to where they would find the land for that because it is becoming more and more residential over there again the school that would be a benefit because of the school right being there yeah I think it's at what is it 999 uh 998 Abigail Drive okay and it's about approximately 45 Acres I did visit the site uh they do have other areas there that set aside for I think storm water right but this that's at the very end of Abigail there's a storm water area very deep storm water area yep yeah and I met with um Dr manager and Mark Manning out there on site um their concept plan uh looks to add six uh baseball diamonds and then three rectangular fields or natural uh surfaces uh on the upper portion of their of that property and then they wanted to add pickle ball courts uh eight pickle ball courts which is not included in any of the Hunden Sports Complex uh concept plan right but that's kind of what their their concept plan was now I I will say this I did talk to them because they were here earlier today MH uh I did ask them you know they're really flexible on that concept plan so if Council deliberated and want to do something different than what they had proposed or what they had you know concept planned for they're open to flexibility so with the 14 million Revenue that's an economic impact just economic impact okay so that's not saying what the county would receive versus we'd have to negotiate that right but they but again they would be doing performing all I do like the idea that they're a little more open to modifying that plan as opposed to what other areas would that's right and that they're not they're not hung up on a a gymnasium that's not included in their plane good okay all right now remember now they only have one gymnasium it's at West cryle true and it's it's older and it's just it it is I mean I I wouldn't steer away from it I just didn't know if that was it comes with a big price tag too that's right yeah all right thank you thank you chair councilman Robbins thank you uh chairman real quick um Tim can you go over the funding for this because there's a misconception U of of where this funding um is coming from what it can be used for uh and obviously you know we we we have other issues uh that we're dealing with up here whether it's storm water and Roads we just want to make sure that the public understands that we're going to be using Echo money but I'll let you explain it right so on the ballot measure it allowed up to $40 million to be authorized for bonding so if you wanted to go and use an echo a portion of the echo fund to bond that's available and it was a part of the ballot measure as opposed to paying it all UPF front right you can Bond it you can pay for it through time um the other options you have some naming rights um good example of that would be at bumo which I showed you earlier um boomo is an apparel company right and uh so they pay uh seminal County XF funds for the right to put their name their apparel company name on on the name of the sports complex so that's another opportunity as a revenue gener re Revenue generating income stream do we know how much they're getting Tim I I if I say 300,000 without because I think that's what Rick dur told me but I'd have to go back and I'd have to really confirm that but I thought I thought it was 300,000 okay and that's annually yeah annually okay um and then uh the other income streams you would be looking at uh potentially private Partnerships for development side right uh and then legislative appropriation you have federal and state grants fur app is an example of that U which is the Florida Recreation development assistance program through the state it's only 200 Grand right so you're only getting a small piece for that because that's a maximum amount um and then uh uh you know if we're looking at City Partnerships they'd be partnering well City of Deltona would partner with us for a funding uh option but city of DeBry didn't didn't offer any City funds for that they just said if you build the gymnasium in this Sports Complex the city would maintain the asset okay the entire asset right and um lastly on a different just transitioning just a little bit can we pull up the site plan just once more yeah was that a picture right there with that big pond uh no that was bomba that was Bo that that is um now this is the concept plan that Hunden put together uh that was presented to the council and again that um it's flexible because this is what their conent plan was so we we could there's some flexibility in how we develop the site and and Tim because we're kind of in the and this can really go anywhere but we're in the the infant stage of this we're all big on Outdoors that's the reason we're even considering this can we kind of double purpose the storm water or Retention Ponds can we also offer is it too soon or could El offer an area where we can have some recreational fishing in there uh outside of a events where families can come you know just a couple picnic tables nothing sure people don't need anything crazy but just another way that we could utilize what's there um that's already there you for the kids so um yep also walking Track could be uh added here I I know a lot of parents as their children are playing and they're waiting for the next game to play in their tournament they like to get on a trail so that could kind of like what we do at karach field they have a pond there and the trail trail and everything so thanks great suggestion uh David Santiago thank you Mr chairman and the good suggestions also yeah D starting off the Year good it's good I like that I like what you said um listen I I want to give uh credit to my colleague over here uh don because this really started on you pressing the buttons about the facility needs on on the west side right and um so thank you for your your persistence in that um I like what I see uh I like the options of some type of hybrid so I I'm glad you went out to the cities and started to talk to them uh i' I'd still like to go back to Orange city because they have so much skin in the game as this too they're the ones that probably benefit the most economically much more so than the berry so um I think they need to go back and sharpen their pencils as a city um and be good partners um as far as I I'll just say this for the council and to her staff I like this Regional kind of sort of approach I think we have an opportunity here to not only Leverage What Delona wants to do uh on their property and what we have we can do on our property um Deltona has the opportunity also which I've encouraged him to to tap into the echo dollars as a municipality themselves you know we' we've done two years wor for Echo projects that I've been here we all know it's been very light on that side again that's and I blame them by the way I've told them specifically you guys are not coming to do this and you need to step up your game so they have an opportunity to tap into that as an individual municipality um and we also have an opportunity I think to make this a real partnership and I'm going to digress for a second Mr chair and others because some of you may remember this property was at one time uh titled for the Partnership Center it it was a uh uh a project that was between the county the state the Barry Orange City and Deltona to make that into a conference that property into a conference center Educational Center OH Daytona State College was a partner in there too so that's how it got that title at one time called the Partnership Center so it could revive itself in as a partnership complex right but if somebody wants to pay for the naming rights that's okay too but we can revive it into a recreational facility that that the need is there I did want to bring up again the BMX stuff Matt that you brought up um it's in this plan uh the diagram that we're seeing U but it's not being proposed I want to make sure I understand so yeah right so when uh Hunden originally uh presented their feasibility uh study in proforma uh they had included the the BMX track in there right in the in the plan Council directed uh that it would be better suited that we improve the the BMX track that we have on the other side of the county which is at Strickland Park Strickland range Park which is it's a very nice facility it it could use some improving the the organization that takes care of it right now it's a it's a volunteer group they do a great job but uh we it could use could use some some additional and that might have been a meeting that that I didn't participate in at the time and you know had I been engaged in that I probably would have said the opposite for a couple reasons not that I don't think we should improve Strickland I don't know where it is right and I think you said already he on the East Side come on over and hang out okay yeah and and you said it's on the east side guess what the kids from Deltona de baring our city are not going to drive to wherever Strickland Park is right so we have an opportunity to serve both sides because you know we like it or not we have the Palmetto curtain and from geographically we're a divided County right um so I think the both could coexist um when we first came out with this plan I did get calls from residents in my district um advocating for this which I will say it's kind of surprised me I had multiple calls I was like all right well we'll look into it I also believe my memory was that we wanted to see if we can do this in a way where it can uh entertain uh competitions and done to a level where it attracts people to come for competition so I think we can do both guys again price tag is important what the dollars and cents I'm just talking Vision uh the the other thing Mr chair I'll just say when we first met about this project I wanted to tell the council what I shared with staff um was that if let's say we keep this layout one of the things that I I think I use the word Disney um I use the the description to Disney if you go to Disney properties and and you see how they keep the uh topography and the nature of certain areas um intact I'm not talking about some of their older projects but they try to keep the Nature Scape um of the property so what I had shared with staff can we look into the possibilities of let's say we were taking this concept how do we keep trees in areas where we don't have to knock them down right and make um natural um barriers or natural landscape um to the facility so it almost makes it feel like there's quadrants within the facility if that makes sense um so fantasy yeah like Fantasy Land there you go yeah but it's with trees um but you know how do we make the park different still have the opportunity to have all those fields but keep as much I don't want I'm going to stop talking I'm just going to say don't scrape the whole thing down and I know that area is already largely very uh thin but if we can design this if we if we approve this eventually to have that concept design so it keeps as much of the nature Escape as possible and don't knock everything down so I'll wrap up with this Mr chair I I think we should go the hybrid approach bring Orange City back to the table or get them at the table um and with that hybrid we could work with Deltona if they wanting to do their own facilities don't replicate what we're doing here it can possibly be marketed as a coexistence project right there's games that are going you know just like the Olympics right not everything the Olympics are not done in one facility they're done in multiple facilities so how do you Market that that people can come to this area and have partnership parks to uh Premier partnership facilities to do events sorry for the long way Mr chair but I wanted to share that Vision that was a question I did ask a question and do you think Danny was right about adding no kid okay uh let let's go back to well before I go to funding BMX don't do we have a BMX course at Chuck lenon Park in Delon what is that is a mountain bike uh course right so there's two different things going on uh BMX is is with bikes right but it's you're looking at Hills and jumps um and mountain biking is a thin 18inch to twoot wide Trail through the woods is what we have at Chuck Lon park now it's very popular it's I think it's top five in the state but different mountain bike trail BMX Trail track and then you have the motocross track uh which is a different uh track all it's it has motorized vehicles as a does your staff uh maintain any of the chuck lenen Mountain craft or is that all volunteer I know you got good volunteers up there yeah so we have brokered agreement with the southern off-road mountain biking Association and they virtually take care of all of the maintenance of that 10 miles worth of mountain bike trail there now let let me couch that when they need material or they need some matting to prevent erosion we work with them we provide them the materials then they use their volunteers to go and put that in place okay it's a really nice course very nice yeah very popular as well um when uh David when you're talking about the hybrid are you talking about model three or four sorry Mr chair I don't have the numbers in front of me I got phase one phase two let me go to that and then okay um yes model I think model four Mr CH we just left the screen good yeah yeah okay uh Tim yeah funding is going to be the big hurdle probably with all of us here I know that in staff meetings I already see that the county manager and his staff are focused like a laser beam on controlling flood waters what do we do with storm water so the funding is going to be a big hurdle has um ar City DeBerry or Deltona proposed how how they would help fund it or are they just going to come to Echo too yeah so um in terms of Deltona City of Deltona they're partnering uh financially where they would share in the cost the development of the site on Abigail drive on city-owned land and provide the land yeah they would provide their land U and they would also partner in the development costs and then once it's constructed they would assume the maintenance and operating costs for the facility now in city of deberry's case uh um they're really only pledging to maintain the facility once the facility is constructed gym or the whole facility uh the whole facility if the count if the county if the county committed to build the facility along with the gymnasium then the city would maintain the entire facility okay yeah I'm going to go back in time real quick here so city of DeBry had a plan to build a gymnasium $ 30,000 square foot facility and they're here by the way um and I I think it was $12.5 Million at the time so it's significantly more than that now so I would say there's been some um discussions and agreement and concept among staff that would still would have to go before the city of DeBerry as you know so um and that would be to maintain and operate the facility is what they've committed to um now there's still we've asked legal about you know operating an extra territorial Park is that is that allowed because it would not be within their city limits and so you know that would be up for DeBerry to find out DeBerry to find out and um us to vet of course how how would Orange City participate in B well Orange City um have some statistics that say they're serving um non- City residents County residents County kids um at about a rate of 60% to 40% um of city kids uh with their recreational programs um so they feel like they're doing their part to help the county at this point interpretation they're not coughing up any money I don't believe so at this point all right I mean we did have these right after the storm as well so the focus has been and I think the focus continues to be S for some of our smaller cities is you know bringing back some normaly um to their City I think uh I think you gave Don credit for bringing this up and he he certainly uh put this back on the front burner and we do need it in West fuchia there's no doubt about it we there's needs in East fuchia as well for for sports facilities I think I remember Danny might remember in in 2021 we talked about this and the county manager I I think correctly said that if we whenever we did this it needed to be funded by Echo if we get grants that's fine too and not General funds I've not heard any talk about general fund is that um for me we would have to stay completely away from general fund to do this so that's what outdoor recreation is one of the portions of the ballot language and this will certainly qualify we've helped um our Municipal Partners we spent over $20 million developing outdoor recreation Fields with our partners um multiple projects in this category it would certainly qualify with the ballot language and you have the ability to bond where general fund dollars would come in as that subsidy um if you general fund or other if you had other operation or other funds that may be available to subsidize that essentially $400,000 um the dir between the 1.3 and the 1.7 is what we're looking at now when we talk to Commissioners or the Commissioners in simol County will tell you we will gladly supplement out of the general fund because it's generating $60 million in economic activity in our County and so they're more focused on economic development and the subsidy they're providing to that is what's bringing the economic development to their community so it's I think the first step I think for for this council is to say you know do we want this to be an economic development engine on the west side or do we want to meet the demand for sport Youth Sports in our community and if you want it to be an economic development engine I would recommend model four where we partner with someone that added of build it and they will come and this in this sector does not work you need to start at the very beginning and have a partner who's developing a 100 acres next to you with three hotels and restaurants and making it a community Hub that's the economic development model now if you wanted to meet the demand locally we we've engaged the school board and got some data if you look at 61% of our fields in this County are on the east side um and 53% of the youth population is on the west side so what this would do is kind of even that out if you're providing these fields to the to the West Side so we could do both and that's what what the model contemplates if we go big if we go eight to 12 Fields is what you need to have a tournament style um facility so if we do that we could still provide youth play during the week and have tournaments on the weekend now I will say hundon does have us breaking even in about year three or five as we move out because only in the first year we have about 16 tournaments so they they project that we will continue to grow over time the number of tournaments buba has 52 a year and some on the same weekends um so and they've talked to buba and said we they we we could use additional Fields like ours four to six times a year as overflow because we're that close the problem is the hotel rooms you know if we want it to be a truly Economic Development activity right now Hunden said you'll have about you'll generate 5600 hotel rooms but only 24% of those will be realized in vucha County about 1,200 because we don't have the hotels so if we want to do the economic development approach we got to go Whole Hog with the partner um but if we want to do the you know we can offset our operational costs by having some local Regional tournaments and meet the local need we can certainly do that as well and those are the kind of the the questions that Council needs to answer for us staff to do either of you know I we're already hearing Rumblings in Daytona not Rumblings they're planning on a sports complex there have they come to us yet and asked for to partner or for any funding they have not at this point do you expect it I'm certainly Ekko is available to all of our municipalities so I would I would almost guarantee that they would come as as a partner we did ask so when when is the saturation point because there is a lot of a lot of this going on in our community and I think the the the the demand is so high that what they have told us is that those weekend tournaments you're there's always going to be demand for and they showed us some data over the last recession where every sector of the tourism industry shrank and consecutive quarters except for sports tourism because I think it was outside and people wanted to get outside during Co and so this is the only sector of the tourism that's the tourism sector that's resilient is what the word that they used and so we will not cannibalize each other there there is enough demand to go around so we had contemplated at that point Palm Coast was um you know in discussions for a $90 million complex with multiple Fields 20 in the 20s um they have backed away from that plan so now Dayton is coming forward with you know they've done the analysis as well but I think there will be Synergy rather than cannibal cannibalization when when I think about saturation points I'm thinking more about um how how far can eeko maintain this if if Daytona is coming after Echo funds we do for something like this um I mean we're g we'll run out of money in in a year or two I mean it goes to 20 240 and every year we'll get more money but um how many of these can this is your saturation point can the county maintain how many can we afford to build so that that's what I'm concerned about now do do you have any idea between now and 2040 how many projects like this that the the county has plans for or will be bringing to us we do not um but I will say part of our strategic planning process is this Council approved which we'll be kicking off in the next few months um is going to be part of that consultant is sitting down with the cities and developing a longrange plan um however I will say and I stand by this as I've said before standing at this Podium that you know their strategic plan is only as long as those elected officials are sitting at that dis so they may tell us this is our plan you know for 2040 but it could change in after the next election and we've seen that happen in our municipalities so um well in the County Council as well I will say that so that at this point in time there are caps on what for a facility that you can get unless it provides a significantly different experience so for an outdoor recreation facility like this the cap would be 3.1 million for our partners but this Council has the authority based on the direct County expenditure program to do more okay all right thank you uh councilman Dempsey okay um Dr bbau uh Chuck Lennon is a perfect example um they've got a it's a mountain bite Trail but it's meant for cycling activities it's completely different than BMX mountain biking is riding in the trails in the woods for several miles for exercise and uphills downhills BMX is just a short course Strickland's been there since 86 it's a huge success I've been over there many a times I was there for the grand opening a year ago or the the Grand Marshall for the national event okay my question Brad do you have any Dr B do you have any idea how much money the county spends to maintain Chuck lennin because they've got the the BMX or the actually the mountain bike trail system they have couple of soccer fields got three or four or five little league fields so how much are we spending a year so maintaining that I will say this man right here does a great job with Partners so for the mountain bike and BMX we bid it out and they they agree to maintain those fac that not the entire facility their their amenity so for those specialized amenities where we're providing um the area or the space for they are maintaining those with the caveat that Tim shared that we may help if there's erosion and they need erosion mats we'll help um but otherwise Tim could tell you you know what the cost recovery or what the he has for every single Park we track what it costs so do you have any off the top of your head yeah so I was going to say um it's about 47,500 per field on average to maintain uh a sports complex and that's consistent with Lennon and Bennett okay so how much do we spend how many fields so there are eight Fields out there so right around $450,000 somewhere around there give or take Chuck Lon yep now that's that's natural turf fields right now these would be artificial turf fields which will have a significant they have a replacement life but they have a significant less maintenance requirement why do we need artificial turf why isn't grass good enough so because of the the demand so right now at many of our because of the demand um and the number of people on it replacing it much more often than we should how often are we replacing the fields in Chuck lenon yeah let me let me add a little bit to that because when we get into the artificial turf and the natural Turf there's lots of pros and cons on both so if you'd like it let me spend two minutes on in general between the difference between artificial turf and natural grass right so and the artificial turf which you'll see on on the Hunden plan they had eight fields that were artificial turf and on those fields it allows you grow great flexibility cuz it's resilient you can put as many games on there 24 hours a day if you wanted to that really doesn't impact uh the ability or the turf condition correct now when you move to um an art a natural grass you put that kind of traffic on a natural grass field you're now you're you're you're closing down your Fields you're potentially uh restructuring in front of goals or high use areas so you're now now you got to rebuild you got to close on your facility and then you got to um have have less traffic on those facilities how often does that Happ let me interrupt you but how often have we had to rebuild every year I have to rebuild Bennett uh because of the because of the usage out there and every year and that's at the rectangular Fields not on the diamonds but on the rectangular fields and same thing at Chuck lennin there are two uh Fields out there there there's leagues out there that play on the weekends mostly and it gets tore up and we got to close the fields down re uh cut out cut out areas and then resod with more Bermuda right now on the artificial turf side um you don't have to do that but you have to rebuild it approximately every 10 to 15 years which is significant it's about a half a million dollars per field to rebuild once uh it it's reached the end reaches the end of its useful life uh the other con to the artificial turf is it's hot so even they're making strides right the industry is making strides to try to cool it down but it does still get hot especially during the summertime so uh you know there there's some limitations on that but again the B the pro pro on that is you can put every kind of recreational activity on that artificial turf so how much would it be just to put out I mean I I think you've already mentioned what was the numbers again the east side has 43% of the youth the east side yeah so the east side has 61% of the field so 60 62% um Tim did one part of this math I did the other part so 62% of the fields and about 48 49% of the youth age population so isn't it isn't it true that artificial turf for soccer and football is more dangerous on the knees for athletes go right ahead yeah getting into lawyer mode watch out yeah so uh artificial turf is approximately 20% higher in terms of injury per play than natural grass and when I say injuries it's not it's it's really your your ankles and your knees not the upper extremities that's contact really that's you're talking about that but it's really your ankles and your knees um they're making strides though I I I I I did a little check in to see what's maybe the good example of of this to try to minimize injuries um I I I I found a hybrid uh it's Kentucky Blue Grass and and an artificial turf at Lambo field and Green Bay and um you know about half of the fields in the NFL are artificial turf and about half are natural uh if you talk to the players the players really want a natural Turf right but when you're looking at Lambo field you got a hybrid they've they've woven in Kentucky Blue Grass to an artificial turf and that might be the way that you might have the best of both worlds what would the harm be if we just if we're all I don't expect any of this to come out of anywhere but Ekko I mean I think Ekko that the 72% of the voters said we want taxes to go towards outdoor recreational activities and on I brought this up a year or two ago there's still a uh deficiency in football practice fields and Little League fields on the west side it's it I still hear it and so what's the harm in just using this land Building natural Fields without the city just do it as a model one natural Fields like I grew up with and the rest of these guys probably grew up with planting the grass and if later on down the road a later Council wants to do artificial turf at a later time they got maybe more money in the budget at that point in eeko let them do it but would that be a a reasonable uh plan so um you know I like uh natural grass too I played on natural grass and I I've played on artificial turf as well and and I'd rather play on natural grass than artificial turf just as a player um however if you're looking at economic impact uh the artificial turf gives you a greater uh allowance for more activity on the field than your natural grass so if you're looking at this as a a driver right you're gonna you're probably going to need some kind of artificial turf to cheap tournament play all day long every weekend a year to bring that economic impact so I think what Tim's saying is doable if if you want to meet the local need so if if you do not if you want to have tournaments on the weekend and local play during the week you could not have natural grass you should you couldn't have turf grass qualify that then because there's a shortage the the stats thank you for the numbers they support what I've said all along is there's a shortage of practice fields for the residents the West Side residents of the county and I just want to meet that demand I'm not trying to add more traffic and more people into the community than we already are dealing with but at least to deal with the local demand of the Deltona children the Orange City children the Barry children so they have a place to go after school sooner than later to be able to practice football in little league and soccer is that a viable yeah if you're if you're looking for just a local need natural grass would be fine the my only couch on that is the football um one season you're going to you're going to have to resad or or you're going to have to replenish that field after one season okay yeah on on real on American football or soccer on on football on fo FL tackle football not flag football tackle football tears tears up the fields pretty quick and I guess the other thing is I know what what is the the issue with the BMX course why couldn't we just put that in now so there was consensus I went back and read the transcript from our meeting um there was consensus um to focus on there was not to um before funding this to focus on improvements at Strickland there was not an eliminating it from the plan but it was a discussion there was consensus to focus on improving Strickland and the people that came from Strickland I think they're who are who are the ones who swayed this Council into saying let's focus on strengthening that and improving it um bringing it to a a championship C caliber where we could host both East and West events and and USA BMX said they're they're F further they're far enough apart where you could have two different tournaments a year um here and there's a demand but what if we just did something like the one in the land the city of the land has a little BMX park and that's a government Run Park correct yeah we we could do that here if you wanted to do that y um it's just a just talking about a place for the kids to take their bicycles go up and down some hills and skateboard and just have somewhere to hang out while they're waiting for their football game or their little league game to come up we couldn't do that no we it's Council Direction whatever You' like us to do there yeah all right that's all I have thanks guys councilman Johansson I'm waiting for debate sir so if others have questions I'll hold up other toy you got questions sure I have a couple questions councilman Kent so with Orman Sports Complex looking at the 471 300 visits a year um yeah here's the question talking to oh yeah here's the question did uh did the county participate with orand in building a sports complex yes how much uh I'd have to I'd have to pull the numbers but I have them in a list yes it was Echo dollars I don't I don't know if building but improving we certainly have I we'll need to get pull those numbers thoughs lights yeah what was that Tim I think it might have been lights lighting lighting of the field yeah I think uh was it Robert Caroline is the parks director up in right in Ormand and if I'm not mistaken uh I I think I had a conversation with them and I think uh they were looking at lighting for one of their at their their sports complex right and I could be wrong but Brad and I know there was some racing and Recreation money for the Limitless playground that's up there I'm not sure if Ekko participated with that any at all I just bring that up for the council because that was a that was a a big nut that orand paid for and still pays for the maintenance every year um so you have some that are out there doing it all on their own and now we're looking at a situation and times change and I get that but I just I just wanted to put that out there um the rest of mine are comments so that was the only question I had did you have a question or comment man comment okay okay councilman Santiago U of of your percentage that you said the 40 60% is that uh both County and Municipal uh facilities or just County both County and Municipal yep all Fields okay thank you thank you Mr chair okay we're done questions for now okay uh Jake you got taken off but I remember seeing your name up the very top so Jake Johansson she shortening the meeting she was telling me to press the button so I I didn't know which button to press um so first of all I every one of these projects that we talk about that's funded by Echo has has a maintenance tale that's going to come out of somewhere right and and so Echo is not for outdoor recreation Echo is for four things environmental culture Heritage and history and outdoor each one of those has a tale so think about that when when we approve a cultural Grant or when we approve a historical Grant those come with a tail sometimes we pay for them sometimes nonprofits pay for them but but but there's a taale Associated the other thing is I I'm I'm very I don't want to say I'm opposed but I've run a city before and I've seen a City walk away from an obligation to pay for something that was agreed to be paid for and it's it's okay now but it might not be okay in 10 years a 2008 might come where the city says sorry we can't maintain that that uh ball field anymore that gymnasium or whatever and it comes back to us so I'm I'm very cautious about partnering with with municipalities not not because I don't trust them because things happen and and they may occasionally have to walk away I'm very supportive of the of the P3 um the the private public Venture because then the private entity assumes some risk and I like when everybody's got skin in the game um I I also think that the the P3 organization uh if we can make it work is that that the the the hotels that would be established close by hopefully in a P3 Arrangement uh would draw more Revenue to us more more Economic Development revenue and and the the private entity uh can then charg that pay to play I think you're all familiar with that I did my share of Hotel buying when when my kids run in travel ball but with the pay to play it's almost a guarantee that that we're going to get Revenue because you got to stay in our hotels or you can't play baseball or soccer at our tournament so uh that that's where I sit with this I I think it's great I think the bonding option is phenomenal it uh uh it allows us to buy something large like this and and and pay it without without killing our uh our Echo funds for a year or two or three to make that happen uh and it will aable enable us to keep our Echo program going so um that that option four is is where I'm at with this and uh uh work with a good organization I could I I could take or leave the BMX I could take or leave the gymnasium um and and I would like it to be Regional when I said partnering with cities I'm talking about longterm but but it would be nice to have uh the the participating Westside cities that that plan on using that facility um to to maybe throw in some Capital At first to to make it a little more palatable as well but but that's for that's for to arrange with the managers and and us to lobby with the uh uh with the elected officials if it comes to that so those are my thoughts on this and and I'm looking forward to seeing it come to fruition um uh for the west side and and and try to try to keep all the revenue here in bluch county and not in seminal if I may and just I would be remiss and if you heard this outside of the chambers and not from me You' probably be upset so in in addition to model 4 when we did meet with orange City she did say that there's 100 acres South my directionally challenged adjacent to this property that is set for commercial development so if we were to move forward with the P3 the the area is ripe for something like this given that that 100 acres is slated for commercial development restaurants hotels and and such need it councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair um I agree with your your your comments Jake um I just wanted to clarify one thing because I think the the O and Echo allows for this right I just want to make sure okay oh okay I misunderstood you I I just it was stated that it's it's it was approved for outside Recreation that's one quarter of what it's approved for I misunderstood you thank you I'm glad I asked to clarify um and then and then Don I appreciate um your perspective you know try to I guess control costs and stuff like that just to go to fit the the minimal need or the what people are asking for now but I think you know we're at an opportunity here now to help West Valia Southwest valua with an economic engine if you you recalled over the years I've said Daytona Beach in that area is Valia County's economic engine right and not that this is going to surpass it but this gives an opportunity to diversify our economic uh input um by bringing in some Revenue in certain areas and that that area could support it that road has just been widened to four lanes it's close to I4 um we we starve of hotels in West Valia if anything's going to bring more hotels um which then brings more good type of development hopefully um is hotels um excuse me events like this that attract people to the area right now there's no reason um because people just live here for the most part and there's no demand for building a hotel where people just they they reside so um I think if we're going to do it the P4 um let's go for the economic engine um but be smart about it we I think I like that you said you don't want to cannibalize any other areas we need to make sure that regionally we're communicating with cities you know that we're not taking one from the other and I know you're looking at that so um and I think Eko like you said Don and others is is the way to go and probably uh um uh bonding this I'm the the the the Barry thing I'm I'm I'm still interested in figuring that I that idea out you know I know it's just on a staff level right now um it's just an interesting piece to me I think we still have more answers we I think what we need to do as a council is just say okay we like whatever option go to the next step come back to us I think that's where we need to be um and I'm for I'll just say model for at this point um I still like the BMX because I think that's a unique factor I don't want to just copy what others are doing let's make it a different reason for people to come here too thank you Mr chair and a f well yes with lights with lights with lights and fishing yeah councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um I I agree um hearing what you said councilman Santiago I understand uh one of the questions that was brought up when I met I actually tour the BMX facility over in uh Strickland and I saw the concerns that they have with respect to the actual course it's been there for a long time like you said Don um and it needs some it needs some love they do a lot of big competitions there and their concern and I'm I'd be remiss if I didn't say it their concern they understood the need and the desire to put something on the west side of the county with respect to a BMX their concern was hotels there are a lot of people that do travel competition wise for this Sport and right now uh no offense to the west side of the county in Deltona DeBerry area there are no hotels to speak of they're going to seol County so where are they spending their money to eat where are they spending their money to stay to drink so they don't want to give that competition they didn't want to give our Revenue away you know from what we're going to make here in in valuch County Daytona we have the hotels and so people are staying there but I I do like the compromise of some sort of facility there it doesn't have to be at the level of what Strickland is because I still want to make Strickland better um the meat and potato is already there you know now we just have to add the spices so um whereas you know you're starting from scratch uh but I think some sort of BMX track I'm open to that I am but I think the the they don't want to compete with themselves you know because they're only going to go to one area so I'm just saying leave that food for thought when they do that but I also too like the the model for I I don't want any of our general fund money going into this that's what we have the echo funds for so thank you Mr sh can I just add something to Mike U um Matt Matt this is Matt Ryan yeah if I make Troy um because you WR about the hotels and I what's great about I re I drive the bomba area often um right almost across the street from boom boomba just a couple blocks a brand new hotel is going up it's about probably 50% done so that has shown and it that hotel is being built because of boomba and I hope that that arrang was yeah I don't know yeah I don't know yeah all right uh councilman Troy Kent yeah thank thank you chairman so it sounds like we will help uh become the economic engine for seminol County since we don't have the the hotels and and they'll all be mostly staying over there that's a little bit of a concern um my comments looking at um the M multi-purpose Fields the grass fields the BMX course let me just say you know you get one shot at this and there's no doubt there is a need on the West Side the BMX course should be included in this from the get-go there should be um for Tim and Dr bball there should be a walking Track I was going to go with the fishing but then there was a smart comment about a fountain with lights so um I'll I'll still go with the fishing because I I think that that's another another great opportunity you get there you should also have a limitless playground at this location you need a playground where any kid uh regardless of their disability can participate with every other kid their age you know the thing I found that is is amazing and I also find it on Kenny is that kids don't really look at other kids as having you know a disability or something that they can't do and whenever you have a playground where if a kid in a wheelchair can swing on a swing next to another kid I I think it's a it's a good thing to add at this time a limitless playground I'm also I'd be remiss if I didn't say you take one of those grass fields and you turn half of it into a world class dog park and I'm being I'm being serious no I'm being serious um you you have you have something there you have something there where um it's an enclosed fenced area and there are activities for the pet owners and the dogs as well like at the Orman Beach YMCA for example if you want to want to know what to go look at and see Orman Beach partnered with the or Beach YMCA and some private investors and uh at the at the LI Decker Family YMCA in Orman Beach we have a a dog park there there's also one up in Bicentennial Park uh but but something I think that we should we should talk about I am absolutely no on General funds for this I am yes for Echo funds this is a lot of money we're talking like 3940 million here but I'm I would be remiss and I'm going to I'm going to advocate for the east side a little bit here and and we have to do that Echo fund should in my opinion County projects first Ocean Center we got ly Flanders there we've got a a a big project coming up at the Ocean Center I think we should be talking about Echo funds there I know we have Daytona Beach talking to us about Jackie Robinson Ballpark and you know they want serious Echo dollars there as well so the question chairman was extremely appropriate what is our saturation level and when do we get there you know at what point do we say we're up to our neck no new projects coming to get down to the Brass tax of this um I'm actually okay with model 3 or model 4 my concern with model 4 is we help a private business you know we we we put in almost all the money I feel like to build the thing and then they come in and take all the money with their dump truck and for three or four it would have to to be spelled out because it's such a huge significant amount of money by the taxpayers of uchia County that if the city or the private company they would have to have a real plan in place to make sure that there is money put aside for um renewal and replacement because what I don't want to have happen is in 20 years from now go oh well we need $70 million to kind of redo everything because the place is getting old and shabby and hey taxpayers you go ahead and foot that bill again while the owner of the the company is on this um you know private jet that he flew to get on his private yacht you know hanging out in the South Pacific somewhere picking up what I'm laying down thanks that's all okay Council I'm going to warn you um Don Dempsey is next and he has a unique ability to change everybody's mind councilman Dempsey guys when I when I brought this up two years ago um I was never talking about using Youth Sports as a way of becoming an economic driver for the community I'm not here trying to say let's profit because Youth Sports is an untapped reservoir of money that we can get from the parents I get it Jake I used my son did travel hockey ice hockey and we go all the way to Charlotte or out of state and have to pay twice the fees to stay in their hotels and it was yeah it made a lot of money off of it that's not what I ever foresaw when I brought this up all I'm saying is my son practicing little league in storm water retention pawns I'm talking about the local high school football um uh private football team the Bulldogs the coach coming to me saying can we practice on your farm because we have nowhere we have nowhere to practice I mean that's what I'm talking about I don't care about economic drivers I don't care about drawing millions of dollars in from out of town areas I don't care about the hotels I don't care about whether Sanford is making more money then Delona and hotel Revenue I'm talking about giving these kids a place to practice football and a place to play Little Lake and at what point to answer your question Troy whenever whenever we got 52% of the youth athletes but only 38% of the fields when we get 52% of the fields and accessibility on the west side when we have 52% of the youth athletes looking for a place to play and practice then I'll shut up who asked you to shut up nobody but but but I'm just no no I'm not saying no because you said we have to equalize and everything equalized I think was your reference but my reference is it by the pure numbers we have a deficiency over here on the West side I don't care I'm not asking for anything but model one what harm is there and just taking this property mowing the fields you know planting grass putting a couple m buildings roads in and giving these kids a place to practice football a place to play Little League I Hunden I have no uh I don't believe their numbers okay and I don't I I I don't like the fact that they are being the the bar for our numbers in this thing I I can't imagine it costs that kind of money to maintain Fields basically equivalent to what we already have in De Leon Springs I mean we've got a skate park in Dand you want to go ride BMX or skateboards you go to Dand it's just it's unmanned unsupervised and it's been going on for probably close to a decade now and it can't cost that much money um you guys got a skate park at the Port Orange uh YMCA that Ekko paid for so I know you got a skate park in Orman I don't know where that came from who financed it but I'm not looking for a national draw that's great but I don't to the kids I don't think it cares which city or which county agency is financing it let's just give them a place to practice football and a place to practice Little League I'm not I don't care about drawing in the hotels and all this money so I just want model one let's get it moving if a later counsil decides you know what we could really make a ton of money off of this if we went to the hotels they could always change to a model three or model four at that point but let's just give these kids now it's been two years since I've brought it up and I don't feel like we're any closer than we were then to be quite Frank I just want to give these kids a place to practice football that's all thanks guys thank you proving me that that I was right um I that creates another question for me but I'm going to wait because somebody might uh answer it here so councilman Santiago thank you Mr chair um he didn't convince me um and but you were right when you said that that's what you came up with initially so I respect that um and you know to kind of go towards the dialogue that just happen I want to use analogy in the sales business you know once you make the sale I don't want to say the words but that's usually what happens I think Troy is supporting the effort um and though he has his caveat how to get there right I think he's supporting the effort the reason why I like the economic side of it um because you know we're going to talk about goal setting shortly and the uh our facilitator called me and we spoke on the phone and it was a very quick conversation and he said well what's your goal all right I think I don't want to put words in his mouth but it was something along the lines and I said I want to focus on economic prosperity for volutions um and that means a lot of things right a lot of things touch that and we'll talk about that more um and yes I want kids to be able to play I think we get the best Best of Both Worlds here with this right because guess what mom and dad need to have in order to bring the kid to that Park oh excuse me to I participate in that ac ity they have jobs right because these ports are not cheap at the same time so I think we can do both Don now the question is the final the final analysis right I don't know it may we may get this final analysis and say what the heck we got to back off from here right it's not going to work but I think we can accomplish what you want and bring some economic Prosperity additional to west valua southwest valua um and um and yeah I guess that that's my piece I think we can do both Dawn but I don't know until we have at the end so I think you have support to do what you want um and I know what I think I know what you're trying to say hey guys I didn't ask for all of this I wanted this but I think you can get that and we can go more that's how I feel and I hope you can I think you can live with that you're just saying hey I didn't want this big price tag I think that's what you were saying um but if the numbers make sense I didn't want the big price tack either but if the numbers make sense then maybe we should think of you know would we invest our own monies um in this type of thing I don't know the answer yet thank you Mr chair I I'm GNA go to Jake I'd like for you two to be thinking about this while Jake and and Danny are talking is it is it going to be the same $39 million for the option one that he's talking about or or number four I I'm not just it it remains to be seen I think that you will um and the model four it's very much the way that I likened it too when we were meeting with some of the the folks that do this it's very much and please don't liken it to that but a capital stack when I bring affordable housing projects before you and there's a capital stack the County's going to give this much private Equity is going to give this much the state has given this much in incentives you know and this is how much that the the you know the property owner next door is giving it's a capital stack so it will look you guys will approve that stack on who's giving what and what the how the profit sharing will go so it's a much different animal I don't foresee it we we don't foresee it being more than 39 I will say that for with Don ons no it better not be no no for the four number four right if I could add to that so the artificial turf fields cost a lot more to build than your natural Turf so if if the plan under option one is no artificial turf which is I thought where you're heading and and model four would give you artificial turf and natural grass the artificial turf are going to be somewhere between $800 to a million dollar per field and uh your art uh your natural grass is significantly less than that I think it's like 200,000 something like that so but now here's the here's the rub though so when you go to maintain that grass uh there's lots of cost that go to maintain that grass you're mowing it you're fertilizing it your herbicid your signal grass all the weed control plus the watering plus you're cutting out grass as As you move through time uh where and that artificial turf you're not right so there's a there's a low lower cost on uh yearly ongoing maintenance but a large upfront cost and then at the end of that 10 to 12 year period of time you got to rebuild that field and that's about a half a million dollars so when you weigh them all out over that 12 to 15E uh time frame they're not far off of one another but it's a matter of what you want can I respond right if that was directed at me or just in general I'll wait my time I'll wait I'll wait sorry yeah uh Jake Johansson I have a question to comment um the percentages east side and wests side are the the East Side percentages versus wests side it's people in general not not unincorporated versus Incorporated right and and all the the fields does it does a county have any big fields on the east side where we play ball so the the largest one we have on the east side is Strickland park right and there are uh two baseball diamonds there got it um I I don't have any rectangular fields on the east side now the cities have quite a bit so so so on the east side we have more fields than on the west side but but on the east side we have more Fields less kids that's correct but those fields are paid for with Echo maintained by cities have have we ever had uh Westside cities asking for Echo funds for fields and and to what extent and and why are we what why have the cities Fallen short for the demand for Fields I guess is my question good question you don't I couldn't answer that question speculate but I will say we I've asked my team I've seen before as I was texting down there to get me a list of all of the outdoor recreation and sports Fields we've invested in on the east and west and yes we see actually a lot more so it's kind of the evolution of sport so we will see improvements coming from the East side for their fields that we've helped fund and we'll get request to fund the development of fields from the west side so they're kind of in two different places I got it cuz I I I hear uh council member Dempsey's you know I just want fields for the kids to play ball mention the Bulldogs I I think that's probably Pop Warner but but has D land is it known to D land that there's a shortage there or or or and and and what have they done to fix it successfully or successfully I don't know I'm I'm a little bit remiss on that part of the research um and and why um why is bla County coming to the rescue with this big program I I like it but I want to know why us and not the cities and you probably can't answer that either rhetorical so so you know from my perspective we're we're back back from from the I just want fields to I want a driver um if you just want Fields let's ask the cities to to to consider funing some fields and we'll help them with Echo um I'm more with uh council member Santiago on this that that and and I talked to staff about this I want our local kids to have access to those fields I really want our local kids to have access to artificial turf so when they do pay to play in sem old and everywhere it isn't the first time they played cuz from a baseball and a soccer pers perspective where my boys played it's much different the ball bounce is different you know we've woron a few in the face because the ball bounce is different on Turf so um uh I want that opportunity for our kids and we Tau about it Monday through Thursday probably local and then and then and then we take the weekends off and that's when the tournaments come in so as long as we keep that balance I'm all for the economic driver and take care of our local kids so that that's why and and a successful P3 is is invaluable uh I've seen him work all over the nation and there's no reason why it can't work here if we do it right and and there's people to help us do it right that's all I have sir thank you councilman Robins uh thank you chair uh my exact notes when right before David was talking was Best of Both Worlds uh don I agree 100% with you uh but I think we can make this thing into something very great uh for the west side and I I agree that's lacking and demand just like any Outdoor Sports if you look at Power Sports uh an outdoor recreation it took off and is thriving I think more than than ever before what's also enticing to me is at 100 acres uh that's adjoining this gives us an opportunity to really build something um uh or or create a package uh to supplement this and make this thing really unique uh and and adds to valia's uh uh repertoire of of of activities and diversifies our tax base and and supports really what this whole Council has said is getting a little bit more away from maybe residential development and being very Target specific in what we do on the the uh in our commercial or industrial so uh I'm I'm all in if we're going to do it I think we should do it right uh I'm ready to make a motion for model four but I'll end it with this that these kids are our future Don we all share this uh this is probably one of the best investments that I believe holistically that that this County can ever make uh that covers so much uh that would affect our community in all positive ways so um I'll second that I'm all in second motion so we have a motion for model four and then on that 100 acres I wouldn't be against putting a dog park there just saying maybe get Westminister and whatever you would or would not be I would not be against it I'd entertain it okay so the motion on the floor right now is for model four uh that motion came from councilman Robbins second came from councilman Santiago um uh councilman Troy Kent thanks chairman I I'll just say after uh councilman Johansson's comments and and you know looking at Don I just want to say you know the east side does have more Fields but those cities have paid for it you know the county didn't the county didn't do that so it makes me question why aren't the cities paying for it on the West side you know and then it made me think well why are we talking about this right now I don't remember one city um member coming before us and saying Hey I want you to fund us something on the west side we're we're talking about it because Don you brought it up and you're like hey you know the west side doesn't have this stuff and we're listening to it in my opinion you know it makes me it does make me wonder why haven't those Westside cities provided what the East Side cities have been providing and still provide and pay to maintain etc etc so I'm okay um I told you all I was okay with model 3 or model or model 4 Don you had me thinking there because I thought your idea might cost um you know um $300 and some free barbecue you know just having an open field and you know someone come and mow it every once in a while and you know just give kids an area an area to to kind of just throw a ball or something but I'm okay going along with this uh to see where where it can go and also if we're going to do it I mentioned it you get one shot at this you you should do it the right way thanks my second round counc yeah real quick just to uh yeah I like model 3 or model four as well I'm not um and I'm glad you guys are all in supportive at least nobody's up here saying no B hug I mean you guys all want to see it happen it's just in what form or fashion and I appreciate that um but I would highlight that the uh when you say the cities are paying for it but I mean they're getting Echo funding we just approved new samna a skate park through Echo we just approved uh well we Port Orange has their skate park through Echo so it's it's not just the city's self SK I understand well I don't know the whole dynamics of where all the money comes from but I would suspect to I mean Holly Hill got three and a half million I think or two and a half million for pickle ball I mean so it's not unusual out of echo so it's not unusual for Echo money to be used in municipal we find how much Orman got the team's working on it I will say that there is yes sir sorry Brad to interrupt using the dashboard that we have uh for Echo uh I found three uh projects that were part of the uh Orman Beach Sports Complex uh they interestingly are all the same Grand amount 400,000 one in 2019 uh for new softball field lighting one in 2020 for baseball and three soccer field lighting projects and uh in 2024 for uh uh softball field so uh that 1.2 million three Pro three projects 1.2 million right and the total projects were valued at roughly 3 million so our our dollars were leveraged I get it but I'm just well I don't agree with hund's numbers I mean I think they quoted the bmx tracks it's some absurd amount of money so I don't I don't buy any of these numbers period but all I was proposing is we go with model one with the direction to explore models three and four later on but let's I'd like to see some sort of interim Fields be established for these kids to play on while we're exploring models three and four which I would suspect is going to take a lot longer to to explore than just getting some interim Fields established and if it doesn't work and if you know what kids give up little league and football all together then we can always use that property for something else I don't think that much money would be going to waste by just putting in some temporary Fields temporary parking and exploring models three and four and that's all I'm asking thanks guys thank you councilman Robins uh thanks chair I just want to remind everybody too you know when it comes to the cities and the County everybody pays into Echo everybody including the people in the cities so um I just think we need to I think there's a motion on the floor um and Don we can we can have staff look for another piece of property for that's maybe not as big to to do this on the west side but I think we're really um I don't want to talk ourselves out of this but I think we got something good here we got a motion on the floor okay the motion on the floor is for model four before we vote we have a member of the public and I would um uh like one of you DR bbal or Tim Bailey to tell us if we vote for for four we're not voting today to spend the money we're voting for you to come back and give us hard numbers because I I agree with Don I'm not sure the numbers I hope the numbers are not right yes so what You' be voting for is to engage someone who specializes in p3s um and to develop a partner to come back with a plan would had the capital stack and that we mentioned to know how much your investment would be how much the private investment would be in it um before moving forward there is a fee for that service what what Brad just recommended there be some kind of fee for performing those services but we'll competitively bid it and get the best price available any idea can you take a swag at what have we we've tried to research it we did and what we got back was not what we wanted so we we really don't know yet either way to come back to us yes okay all right uh motion on the floor is for a model four more information and and uh more accurate costs uh chrisa you want to call the role I'm sorry and I just said we would not forget our resident athlete John Nicholson think you're going to advocate for water polo actually that wouldn't be a bad we really don't have a swimming pool but at any rate um I just kept writing and writing because all the loopholes that you guys were missing I was just like you didn't bother to mention you didn't Bo so the idea that we're going to subsidize seminal County with 80 90% of this economic development of this because you can't put a hotel in overnight all right they cost a lot of money so you may get one hotel but the rest of them is in seminol all right so why are you building this huge facility for semal County doesn't make sense I like Don's idea that there' be no uh gold Plumbing fixtures no matis no AR Michaelangelo statues anywhere uh bottom line what does the community need all right they don't need a lot right from the very beginning Don I said I want Motocross just simple Motocross I don't need 106 million give what you've given to pickle ball for them I'm happy with that he's happy with that why are we expanding this to the most fantastic thing uh south of uh Chicago you know we're we're overdoing this for what that's side of the county needs now I'm disappointed that you all did not have a map of where the fields are you should have had a map and said okay here are the fields and why are the fields on the east side because that's where the population was when I moved to Daytona Beach it was 23% of the population lived on the west side of the county 77% lived so it was only normal and natural where the populations were is where you had the schools that's why Peabody is over there that's why the hotels are over there there are reasons for all of this so this is not a um uh Silver Bullet this is not going to provide the economic incentives that you think it's going to do because there's no Hotel there's no demand all right you're putting this out in the basically in the middle of nowhere and say you're going to build it and they will come I'm not convinced that going to happen now what you didn't say is nobody ever mentioned that there are people living in the land it's a big city and part of your growth has been in the land and it's been senior citizens but there are enough children in the land to use this they how far is it from this location to the land five minute drive five minute drive that's not far okay so they will use it the population is going to grow on the West Side they need these fields but they don't need the luxury Fields they need the basics yesterday not tomorrow not next month they need it now thank you Chris would you call the role please on model four item nine Mr Santiago yes Mr dimsey no Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent chairman I ask a question very quickly we're in the middle of the vote I just want to this is an important vote I think so don I'm I'm just curious you were okay with this but you are you a no because you wanted model one just a field to play is that why you were a no but I want the other side yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Brower uh no I'm going to vote with Don because I was I'm worried about the price and I I think we just need Fields but the the motion passes um 5 to two and it was a great debate okay I'm going skipped item nine um appointment of city of D's recommendation of maresa Lewis to the Spring Hill community redevelopment agency CRA as well as we would need to appoint or nominate their ex official members for the city of danda as well their mayor is um one that automatically serves based off of them but we do have to um officially nominate their other two EX officio numbers which are um vice mayor Jessica Davis and commissioner Daniel Reed okay I move to nominate them is that what you name Miss I need a motion to nominate the three second uh motion is made uh by David Santiago second I think it was by Joe Jake Johansson questions all in favor say I I I any opposed motion carries 7 to0 okay item 10 two council member appointments to the value adjustment board for the remainder of 2024 and I'm probably getting ready to open up a Pandora's box but uh councilman Reinhardt has been on that he's had a lot of uh appointments since he started started and he has asked if he would uh could take a break from that denied I tried so but fir first we need a a motion and um the current members are David Santiago and Matt Reinhardt is that correct yes and you would also need to um appoint the citizen member the only application we have is from the incumbent Miss Anne Patterson we can we start with that one I'll make the motion to appoint Miss Patterson second what are the qualifications for that it could be anywhere in the county for the residents yes I believe so okay I may have someone for our next meeting Mr chair if that helps an additional person we need more right I misunderstood sorry we only need one and we have Miss Patterson f um so this vote is to keep you on there that's what's happening okay um May yes thank you chair um two years ago when we did this board assignments I I took on six if not seven boards and um I I did it willingly last year I continued that um in the inum I've lost a couple family members I'd like to focus my time on my family as well and taking on all these boards um in addition to ones that I are near and dear to my heart that I've taken on and that's my fault you know I've taken on some in addition to what has been assigned by this Council but uh six boards is a lot and uh I I evaluated all the ones that that I looked at and this is one of the ones that I have asked that uh if someone else would take pick up the ball please is they meet quarterly they meet quarterly yes for a day yes sir for all day no it's usually an hour or two that meeting I think the shortest meeting I had was 20 minutes okay um I'm sorry Mr Robbins I didn't I didn't notice your name was up there so I just going to make a a quick suggestion chair would it behoove us to uh evaluate your um your assignments here and and maybe look to see where we're all at you know my question last time and I know we all have our own lives and everything but as a as a team up here too you know some of us we're taking a lot of these boards and it it some of us work as well or we all work as well is there a way that we can spread these out evenly this year um try to work with each other the best that we can that way we don't have other situations like Matt and uh Jake and I and a couple of us um where we're got six four five six seven boards a piece is that something we can that's maybe amicable where we can can I expand on that Mr chair no yeah yeah I was going to suggest that um we we might not get that one done today cuz I was going to ask the council I don't I didn't see any changes that I would make but you each deserve to be asked especially Matt David that was the only one I'll take David has a lot of positions too we're hurting because two of our members with their because of their work they they can't do meetings in the daytime so but I let's solve this one first um I'll stay on this one you'll stay on it and I was going to say I I will take your place thank you chair I appreciate and um for once a quarter so can we do that in this this same vote yeah motion to approve that was quick okay uh Jake Johansson I wanted to discuss the follow on you want me to speak briefly on it now the which one on on your on your on your let's look at them all part okay let's do that let's finish this one and then we'll get that one so uh uh chrisa do you want to I don't think we need to call the role David Santiago has agreed to stay I will take Matt's place and give him some relief uh all in favor say I I any opposed I have a clarification did that vote also includ M Patterson yes and who made the the official Motion in the second I have um Reinhardt said Miss Patterson at first and then Mr Kent um said to the council Reinhard I'll I'll second yeah I had Matt as Matt Reinhardt making the motion and David Santiago making the second okay chairman real real quick are we allowed any alternates for that I mean I'll I'll help out wherever I can if if if you if somebody needs relief um is there an option for an alternate or is that something we can you know because sometimes things come up you might you might not be able to go never been an alternate on the value adjustment board is it possible to have one do the attorneys can the attorneys answer that question any reason why there couldn't be an alternate I don't think there I don't think there's a reason there can't be one if you wanted to nominate an alternate that the person couldn't perform that step in chairman if it gets too much fre you I'll be an alternate okay somebody let's make this official somebody please make a motion uh for councilman Robbins to be alternate on the motion for councilman Robbins to be the alternate on the value adjustment board Johanson is there a second second by Matt Reinhardt all in favor say I I any opposed and that motion carries 7 to Z um that brings us to the to the uh chair's assignments um is there anybody I think we have at least one anybody who's not happy with their assignment uh yes uh okay let me let me go down the list real quick Board of Trustees is Don Dempsey you okay there okay we'll keep that the same Frank Bruno Remains the Same uh Jeff Brower and Jake Johansson on the commuted rail uh Carman Hall is good Troy Kent for uh alternate on the um vucha County atlarge representative is vacant that's a citizen and there's no applicants for what position Mr J again I miss that this is for circuit 7 Community Alliance DCF oh that one yeah and and if I recall uh Chris Gillis can't can't be on it because she's already on it in a different capacity is that right yes that is what I believe this board but I didn't want to misspeak but yes I'll come up I'll come up with a different uh candidate here I might be able to help you too Jake yeah that that' be great okay then we'll we'll hold that position not me suggesting someone sorry Mr chair claims committee David Santiago I'm I'm Department of uh Juvenile Justice Troy Kent yes I'll St Danny Robbins on Doris leaper and are you going to be here in 2032 uh drug court steering you may be in the drug court uh don Dempsey uh Troy K DUI treatment yes East Central Florida Regional planning Danny Robbins Jake Johansson is that the TPO Mr chair no uh I'll remain on the uh elected officials Roundtable Florida Association of counties fact Broadband committee is that still going David Sano we still have that um now I don't know where they're at now as a matter of fact there's a meeting coming up January 30th of the board so I come back and give more information after that if you want Mr chair you're good there yep are you good for the uh Board of Directors for District 8 yes on fact Human Services Advisory Board Jake Johansson sure uh Indian River Lagoon I would like to stay there and Danny still good for an alternate yeah chair real quick are are you still the chairman or is that I'm the chairman until uh February March whenever our meeting is it will change again I just uh like I've asked couple couple years you know I'm pretty intimate with the Lagoon I'm a licensed captain now u i I think I can bring enough contacts that if you would consider chairman after your chairmanship is up on that board uh to maybe let another person or myself take the lead role in that and bring what we have to the table at a full-time basis i' I'd uh appreciate it okay we'll bring that back then it's uh it'll be tough it's probably the the favorite thing that I do but I understand and you have asked each year um Public Safety the rest of them all go to Matt R Public Safety coordinating Council Matt Stephen Shams I think remains in river of lakes uh TP it's really all of us with Troy and and Don as alternates that that one that one Mr chair if I recall our conversation last year here I thought I got put in as an alternate also we had discussions around that cuz apparently that's the one that I can't make my schedule is so conflicting with that it makes it very difficult for me to participate so that TP requires five members from the council correct whose rules are those let's change them yeah F dot can we find out a legitimately whose rules are those that govern the makeup can we change and can we change it we can we can investigate why all of you need to well five of you need to serve with two being an alternate and come back with an answer for that yeah we're pretty certain it's F dos rules but we can double check rules you would prefer to not yeah that's the tough one for me I know they keep calling my name in in the roll call but I made it clear last year I couldn't make it okay on out of Matt Reinhardt River to Sea Transportation disadvantaged uh Spring Hill Don and Dan Don Dempsey David Santiago team valua uh Danny Robbins sure I'm at the alternate um I haven't I haven't been able to go to their meetings um I don't know if Jake would like to be the alternate there or would love to okay we'll switch me as the alternate to Jake cuz I believe you go to their meetings anyway don't I I go to some okay Matt Reinhardt tourist development you're still the chair yes sir Matt Reinhardt Vol tourism is down valua area State Forest leaon panel Matt Reinhardt and uh lucenda COI is still good for the uh Library flag Early Learning Coalition yes she is okay all right then you don't show up you get nominated that's right uh yes sir Hey sir for the TPO it's a weighted average it's what clay was telling me so it's based on the population can we give more weight to four they tell us how many right I think they do the calculation and tell us waited for the entire County or unincorporated volution did you hear that it's volution Flagler all right I still don't know what that means but they specify how many representatives each uh county is allowed to have on they're based on population okay now you use the key word there allowed to have not mandatory I mean words mean things you're an attorney you know what I'm saying yeah I I did not mean for that to be permissive can we get more information yes sir we will we'll get more make sure okay and then we do have the I do see Mr Dempsey I he was willing to serve very fast I can see from the expression we we do have the two alternates that if you can't make it um maybe one of them could could fill in it's probably impossible for Troy as a vice principal it's impossible all right chairman uh if I may real quick I know I there something that I thought about it's not to to to create Waves by any means I know we all have our own kind of schedule and some not but some of us still have seven and eight boards some of us have five some of us have alternates is there a way Don Troy is there any way um or any flexibility I mean because there's there's no flexibility really in my schedule but I I I you know I have two young kids like like most of y'all I going to school full-time I have two or three jobs uh baseball karate the same as everybody else I just I I was hoping uh this year we could maybe find a little bit better Middle Ground like I said it's not not trying to create controversy I'm just trying to get maybe a dialogue to see uh I'm really drilling down on my schedule and um stretching myself thin as well but I would just see if there's any reciprocation that's all well now you have me perplexed because the chairman just went down every single thing and asked if everyone was okay and everyone was okay but you're not okay this is a question for discussion if it's okay I'm still perplexed everything everything was okay but now all of a sudden it's not okay I will take every and any board on any weekend or after 6 PM just show me which ones they are I'll take them all okay uh again if if anybody wanted to have a serious conversation about this um in Act try to be a collective team um we we all have the same issues my question was not to be insultive it was simply to tally up when the Chairman's done like he had said let's look to see what we have when we're done how many boards that we have now that we're tallying up our boards it it appears to be lopsided that's all I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt uh chairman what would happen if one of us or two of us or three of us said hey we can't make these boards we have full-time jobs who would fill those positions staff do we know can we have staff do it do we hire somebody because this isn't my full-time job we we would have to review each board to see what the statutory requirement is and whether it's a elected official appointment or if a staff member could be supplemented can we go ahead just so we don't keep running into this um I'm trying to team build here a little bit but there's there has to be some some give and take can we really drill down to see what boards we have to be at um yes sir we'll we'll go through the chair's appointments and look at them and see what's the statuary requirements and we'll report back thank you all right thank you there's a full board here does it does everyone have a comment Jake Johansson yeah sure I'm I just want everybody to know fortunately or unfortunately I I am very um very involved and and immersed in in my four major uh um committees or councils so don't don't don't mess with me I'm I'm good with uh with the uh East Central Florida Regional planning on the executive committee and and uh um on Career Source as well that's not on here that's a two-year appointment but uh um um I'm I'm very involved in those I'm very passionate about them and I'd like stick with uh stick with everything I have so I'm happy um uh and um if if David you find yourself swamp oh David's not here if you find yourself swamped with claims Mike I miss it I'm just telling you so it really is the most exciting appointment that's all I have it's the pictures that's all I have chairman thank you uh David Santiago I don't know if that's an old um uh I'll just uh Danny you you UND you want I think you you've been to the Indian River Lagoon meetings when we first started it's an all day thing oh I I get it it would have to adjust like I said proportionately uh and prioritize it if I came in and said hypothetically said you know what I work Monday through Friday as well um I can only do uh boards um after 5 or after 6 and uh and only on weekends what kind of position would that put if we all did that what would it put the board in what would have put our our team in um okay that's honest question that's all okay well we are where we are your name was up did you still have a no sir okay okay uh we're going to look at a couple of the these they're going to bring back more information about what's absolutely required and we let's move on to item 12 um we just did and that brings us to um want to swap take your opioid every every night I mean we're not all dealt the same deck of cards Danny you know that I I understand that but that's why different deck here I I understand it's it's I don't judges make my Cal I don't make my calendar and and and I and I understand that but what happens if if we we ran into this more than with just with two or three members well we don't well it's because because everybody else is picking up the slack but at at some point too we we have to well and I'll take over your other board too the 2032 the chairman went through and everybody said they were okay and when it's all okay now there's a problem I'll take two of them everything was okay dooris sleeper I'll take and um I'll take your door sleeper since that next meeting's in let's be guys let's be realistic let's wait until staff comes back let's wait till staff comes back and see let be realistic okay Troy I'm not getting caught up in your web with this with this stuff my web you're the one that spins the web and then wants to fall back like oh I'm not the guy that did this you created all of this right now timeout time out time out for yourself let's reel it reel it back in what else what else can we I'll take over his door sleeper one so that'll give me take that one and the opioid abatement how many times do they meet a year um hold on I just had it so the next meeting is February 27th they meet at 10:00 a.m. in the Dennis McGee room um of the dayon home Beach International Airport and it says that the meetings are scheduled um at the the meeting okay and if I can't make it for whatever reason if I have a conflict because a judge wants me to be somewhere else at that time what will happen could Danny be your alternate there's Vice chairs on that board okay I mean I want to be der to my duty but I have court ordered places I have to be it's not Donna I I understand that this thing got got little bit of a life of its own and and taken to another level when I ask the simple question if can we even possibly even things out once we figured out what's what that's all you guys can say no and I'm hey well I'll figure it out I'm saying I'm not saying no I just took Doris leaper and I will take this one as long as I can physically legally can that's okay okay Chris you need clarification yeah I clarification from legal I do believe that the opioid abatement Advisory Board needs to be a separate um agenda itema item yes corre yes that's correct it is yeah and then chair it is ultimately your decision so would you like to add Don Dempsey to the door sleeper management plan or would you like to keep Mr Robbins no we can make let's make that change he offered I'll do it as long as I can I don't know what's all involved but I'm just I don't want to be accused of not pulling my weight well it yeah that one's in an active boort anyway so thank you councilman Dempsey okay you and I got door sleeper right I got that one you do okay now I got I think the majority of them okay har were're doing pretty good and now we're uh now you got to re us re us all in item 13 discussion on Council goals fired up you ready yeah I think you're you're ready so would C like a break before we start no no okay I wouldn't either all right well thank you I've had the opportunity to speak to you we've um you had a lot to say this year so you I hope you have the sheet in front of you uh and uh I'm just going to start at the top we'll go down it uh and discuss it as each I'll try to give a brief background introduction to each one of them if you have comments we'll take them if you don't say anything I'm gon move to the next item so yes sir what sheet are we talking I'm sorry suzan oh I was afraid I lost mine that could have been a very brief meeting good were they on the uh Das this morning copies in aile okay okay what you'll find on this are your current five goals uh which you had some additional comments and we've added six goal based on interviews with you around flooding Etc so uh what I'd like to do is begin with current five go through those uh and then uh we'll talk about the six goal as with or to end uh would you like to would probably would Pro Michael Dyer you're did you have a some instruction no um no sir thank you as we do each goal why don't we would why don't we do a take a vote to accept it any changes that were made and then and then we'll move on to the second third fourth is that okay with you I'm I'm fine with that process Mr chairman uh all right go ahead let me do say uh several of you you have made the same point I tried to merge your comments uh and captured the best I could uh if I haven't done it accurately just say so and we'll we write it live so you see goal number one's about efficiency uh regulations uh one is you want to continue continued review of your codes to see if there are any code violations that just need to be updated or inappropriate Etc so that's a staff action just to continue looking at that as you've talked about uh item number B on there is to ensure uh that as people who are buying property that they are aware of any code violations that they're getting when they buy it uh so they can make a decision in that process as opposed to being informed afterwards you bought it there are the code issues that you're going to have to deal with uh third is uh one of the staff one of your staff car a coner service to help move through these issues and do we expand that and continue that and the last is uh you know again affordable housing trying to remove any barriers for that uh so with that uh with my brief summary if there are questions uh and then uh if not I'll ask ask someone to give a motion uh to adopt it but any questions on any of those bullet points AB C or D councilman Robbins do we have like an after action like a um something that we can use that when we gave staff direction to um uh like kind of simplify uh codes and all that stuff do we have a list of stuff that they were completed I didn't see one or anything that they had brought forward can we see if we need switch gears or keep or what let me turn to the manager I i' I've seen an annual report that I received from them uh that documents everything those the things we've done are in that annual report which you guys received uh one this came out on the agenda at the first time of course it was removed from the January but it's in the accomplish are you guys good with good with that or we need to I mean I can pull out uh things that are specific to that because it is buried within all the the accomplishments okay that's fine Mr chair uh councilman s Iago you know do we really have to have be in there I mean that should just be like a normal operating protocol you know to working with our constituents um uh for code violations um and by spelling it out I think it spells out we're saying that we have a problem in that area and and I don't know if we do I of course you hear about code violations here and there people that are upset about sort of like what Mr Dyer share earlier but I don't think it's elevated to the point that it's has to be written in one of our goal setting stuff that should be normal operating on any issue with the county that you know our staff should find ways to work with our constituents so I would be for just removing B not because it's not important I don't think it needs to be in a goal setting I think it's an important part of it if what you said was was happening I I don't believe it is Property Owners buy a property that and they come to pull a permit am I allowed to run this kind of a of a business or build this house here that um unless I'm wrong or can somebody from staff update me are they told violations they bought the code violations do they are they told what they are well it depends on the person they bought it from but they don't know so what basically happens happened I could tell a neighbor of mine someone had buil a barn and he had to go ahead and get a uh after the fact permit uh but he bought the property he he gets the uh all the he inherits all the code violation so it's a good question that should be asked of course uh when you're dealing with your realtor if there are any known violations some things and I do think where I've heard Council talk before there are things that go in predate so of our codes so you buy a old piece of property with an old problem on it you know it's gotten away for 25 years and now that little Barn I'll just use it as an example now you go to put a swimming pool in and you know we find out oh by the way you got this violation of this this Barn that's been there for 25 years there might be some you know value and going to look and see if there's a statue of limitations but but it might get into is it a health safety issue I mean you're going to see something coming up here in a a meeting or two or someone build an entire house uh without a permit so uh those are things that we do run into from time to time and what do you you know how could we say our house is safe we we know nothing about it because we have no permit so uh you know we do work with them because our whole goal is compliance it's not punishment I know people don't feel that way but uh we we work real hard to get them in compliance the team they really do try to help people we've seen every kind of uh sad story and and they try to do their best but sometimes our hands get tied especially when it gets to things like structural elements of the building where it's really a part of the floorida building code it's not the county building code so we end up with a a lot less leeway uh when it comes to things of that nature um but you know we're willing to continue to look I mean believe me we'd love to streamline it I have a team in there right now we bought an outside vendor into uh growth management to look at uh certain aspects of it uh not so much that they're in the code area right now but more in the pering area uh but we will um continue we're committed again to try and have a safe clean community and and we really want compliance not not punishment okay I'll I'll come back we've got apparently a lot of questions on this councilman Robbins councilman Santiago um actually a question I just the the only reason I'm I'm suggesting you Mr chair to just remove it I think goal setting for for me is the way I understand it is you know some really big accomplishments that you want to accomplish right and when you have so many they all get lost in the process I'm not that's a very strong statement they all get lost but I really want to focus in on as we go through this process let's have a few core goals and they can be broad right but and I'm not saying this is not important Mr chair B I'm not saying that I think we should work with them but I don't know if it deserves to be not deserves but poor choice of words I don't think it needs to be in our goal setting as like major problems the county has to fix so that's why I would think we should remove it thank thank you Mr chair okay uh Jake Johansson thank you sir um I'm I'm kind of going down the same path that Mr Santiago is uh create a more efficient regulatory framework if we have a through D written somewhere um then then there's an assumption that that this year we're concentrating on code violations which maybe what somebody said in this conversation with with her but I I believe it it it limits the efficient regulatory framework I I think last year we started and we're on the path to look at all regulatory framework permits um H how how everything goes through um Clay's office uh and and how everything gets permitted um code violations definitely or code Code Compliance is definitely one of them and and tons of other things so I I would like to stay more brat Broad and and definitely you can put Code Compliance Bingo that that's one of them and and everything that goes with that and and then we can drill down and say hey George we have a problem with this we have a problem with that the old barn the the you know you talked earlier about City Limits I remember going out there and the owner said all this was done before I bought it and it was it was out of Code Compliance um uh some of the buildings in the back and whatnot um and and he didn't know any better he bought something that somebody had worked on forever so um I I think so D probably works I think B and C might be just just too detailed um uh code compliance reduce barriers to affordable housing uh continue to to um make building I guess George more efficient not building permitting something more efficient um and and anything else that that we regulate in in a perfect world uh some of us here want less regulation so get rid of it well so a a more fitting objective for you Council would be to Contin efforts at regulatory reform uh and Regulatory efficiency as opposed to uh really a RC actually yeah so this whole goal one most of it is Code Compliance and and that that severely limits what what I want the public to think our our efficient regulatory framework um are you saying get rid of number one I'm not saying get rid of number one I'm saying be very general with code compliance and maybe keep affordable housing and and add two more that are very general in nature I think George isn't clay coming back to us with yet more yes efficiencies I'm talking about those and so we can continue down that track I like it okay M Mr chairman before continue can I ask a question since this is the goal setting can we a little be a little bit more Freer with the microphone I want to make sure if if if we're okay with that um if you're not okay with that I I get it I'm okay with that thr ideas out we're in workshop for if I'm not looking at your way yell at me I think this is important the broad thing here test pilots you got Don Dempsey yeah thanks um I think it was a couple years ago I brought up the am budman's office and hopefully that would cut down on a lot of these code violations because in this uh letter C the conier service what Headway have we made towards getting this done jump in I can speak to that uh con service is really another term for om budsman uh we do have a full-time staff person or we have a staff person housed in Economic Development uh ricardi uh and I'm not going to be able to pronounce his last name kixi um who is available to any proper owner or applicant for both code enforcement and any permitting or regulatory or really interface assistance with County government uh we receive monthly reports we've attached some uh to the council's weekly report I'll be sure we attach to your next weekly report the latest monthly statistics from ricard's work um but that has helped not so much avoid code violations because that's kind of independent but to help help people resolve whatever the regulatory hurdles are where they need it and it's generally being focused on those that don't have the benefit of a professional engineer or land use attorney assisting them is there any way we could still move towards an official ombudsman's office it's it's actually a SE supposed to be a separate entity within the government to actually serve as a kind of a watchdog amongst the bureaucracy um are you do we not need that now or is there well let's you're going in a whole different world so I mean it's part of an existing office and uh I uh I would need uh really the full Council to vote on that to go because that's different than where where we're at and you know again we we're a year into this with uh the um conier service and I think it's doing what it's intended uh Works tightly with Clay's office and uh okay you know and it helps I think get through people through the hurdles I I don't really myself favor uh another office cuz I'm trying to keep uh some efficiency within the organization okay thank you and Mr Dempsey if I can just add um before we set this up first of all I think we were thoughtful in putting it outside the growth and Resource Management Department for a lot of the reasons that you cited we also researched a number of other governmental agencies City County uh and state level on how they created these um on budsman efforts and so we followed those best management practices so that helps you to feel at all better about it and I'm I'm happy to sit down with you and ricardi and explain more how we're proceeding that sounds great thank you and and other thing I'd like to add is again just I'll just pair it what I've been saying for the last several months is uh I don't want to do anything to reduce barriers for affordable housing I want all I'd like to take D out of this because um I just I don't want to do anything to incentivize more development I mean we I think I don't know about a moratorium but I think we all hear from constituents about trying to slow up the development process I do not want to create incentives for more development whether it's commercial development regular Private Industry development or affordable housing development development still development and I don't want to do anything that creates an incentive to attract more development be it affordable housing and so I'd like and I like I've said the L just the free market as we all know the the housing prices have come down um rentals have come down everything has come down some markets like the condos have almost crashed so to sit here and say we need to do something to make more affordable housing I think the free Market's already doing that we're experiencing it right now so I don't think we need to put this as a goal so I'd like to remove it so let me uh let me ask just a process question uh what I hear is a and b I've number of you like to just delete that one will substitute your continued efforts that you're doing in that would you like to make a formal motion vote on that or to do what eliminate eliminate A and B and substitute uh continued current efforts on regulatory efficiency would be the objective well that's our goal already yeah or you just eliminate A and B if you wish I might have a remedy so it doesn't get lost if I could speak to that real quick be be came from from me and I'll I'll tell the the goal is efficient regulatory framework and I'll use um Jake the city limits as an example um since you brought it up uh and it's it maybe it's happened other places but if if a business goes pulls a permit to do a business yes you can run that kind of a business here then they had a complaint from the public um so the code enforcement went out and they look at it and then they tell them well you've also got two three and four code violations that happened 30 years ago from a previous owner I think to be efficient and to be fair to that business owner who's considering investing life savings into a business ought to be told when they come in to per pulled a permit yes you can do that however you have these three 30-year-old code violations that need to be cleared up so can I clar oh Clarity go yeah let's park on that for a minute and I'm not picking on City Limits but I I isn't there isn't there an obligation and and I'm you know isn't there an obligation for a person buying a property or a home or a business to do do diligence and and you know I see people or or at least I hear from clay and when I worked in in Port Orange people walk in all the time and say hey I'm going to buy this property what do I need to know about it and and um well you know a little this a little of that you can't the the Gaylord system or or if you're going to have a a if you're going to have a kitchen you got to replace that thing because that thing isn't right and so those people would come in and ask all those questions and and kind of get somebody from the city hopefully in the county to go you can do it but it's going to cost you here here here and here um I I don't I don't know if if we're I don't know if our coners or our staff is willing to go out to that property uh during the due diligence but we also have um uh inspectors right I have I'm a home inspector that goes out to the house and says Jake this isn't up to code this isn't up to code no by the way I don't know who put in that 220 in their garage but it's a hot mess um I I don't know if a a small business has an obligation to do that I I do know that there's a lot of people in our County trying to do things on the on the cheap and and that may be one of the things they're trying to to to get around is paying for that due diligence because it can get costly but I think in the long run it saves you I don't I don't know I I really don't chair me I I just think there's an obligation to the person buying to to I I I agree with you maybe Danny has a uh uh a way to solve this but I I I agree with you uh Jake that I guess all I'm saying is when that business comes in and asks um for a permit to run that business if through our computer systems we don't have a record we must have a record because code enforcement says here's these old um code violations couldn't they be told at that time as part of their address that as part of their due diligence Mr chair and members of the council when and and Clay can correct me if I'm wrong when I say this but we do have an ability for a realtor or a property owner who is buying a property to come in to seek confirmation if there's any active code enforcement uh violations on a piece of property and we can confirm that one way or another okay but what you can't confirm from an office is ground truthing whether what's on the property has been accurately permitted you could do some of that via an assessment of aerial photography which we don't typically do I I as a matter of course uh when a question about whether there's an open violation or not but even an aerial analysis won't tell you the full story sometimes it's not until an inspector is on the ground at a property where they can see whether an electrical service has been installed or any number of other improvements so I what I think I am hearing from Council if maybe I can uh offer some revisions to the subset of this goal number one a continue our efforts of regulatory reform and efficiency that came from Mr Marlo B continue to work with property owners to resolve issues during the permitting and code enforcement process whenever possible including enhanced concierge Ombudsman services and then uh uh those would be my revisions to A and C you all are debating D so I don't want to presume I I can tell the outcome of your decision there can I hear any reactions to that I think I like that but let's hear from uh councilman Robbins thank than chair a lot of this to sometimes our sites or government sites are are nightmare to navigate um something that I do if I'm looking at property go to the property appraisers page we can all pull up our own we know how to pull up our own um property info now in that is linked to our zoning so you can go and see um granted I think it's four or five clay layers into the property pager site where you can actually pull this information up and it'll say it'll give you what they see on their screen and it'll give you a disposition who called it in the date and the time the person who serve the call now I do find Merit in in what you're saying because we often get calls or I often get calls where a son gets a piece of property there was a violation or a barn put up 30 years ago at this point it's been there 30 years it's trivial right and and you got to knock this thing down before you sell the house it's to me that's ridiculous so if we want to put a policy if we want to make a policy decision we can put that on the agenda say hey let's put a time limit on some of these Case by casee instances um of five years George we had a an instance a guy put a block building up it's been there for decades now the kids got it you know can't sell it because the title's not clean or whatever it's bizarre to me but if we want to look at a time limit I think that's totally separate from this I don't want to get uh Lost In The Weeds I think there is Merit but but also at the end of the day we can't forget we we can't be a a mommy and daddy to everybody people this is buy or beware just like a used vehicle um you do have a level responsibility that's not the government's responsibility but let's make it as transparent and as easy as possible maybe uh make a incorporate this a little bit easier where you don't have to dig so deep maybe into the government website maybe put something directly on zoning if it's not there already boom punch in address code violations it pulls up everything in two clicks just a suggestion that's where I'm going that's that would solve it I think for the majority of them that we we're always going to have the problem we just talked about it yesterday somebody buys a house the realtor never told them that house was completely built without a single permit that's the we're always going to have real most Realtors are honest and don't do that but there's there's some that just want to make they want the fee so I with there's nothing you and I can do about that but that would solve the problem I think and the changes that you suggested Suzanne I think would go along the way to do that David yeah I think there's Merit to you know finding a solution to it just like any other problem we find or thing we want to find a solution exactly I'm just saying goals for for this particular purpose and I'm willing to go down that path but let's strip it from a goal section let's stick to goals and but I I'd like to find a solution I believe in okay all right so we I'm going to come back to the in a moment but we'll change it to continue the efforts uh continue to work with property owners the coner service to help that resolved try to improve the website or access to that information and uh do a consideration policy consideration of time limits uh those four things there Suzanne somebody getting that because I can't write fast all right Chris got I need a I need a direction from you on item d uh the affordable high D Delta D okay I'm okay with removing it okay I'm I'm okay with removing it okay we have boards for that stuff all right and and we can make it an item uh when it if it needs to be okay all right so I hear I hear a majority voting to remove so we'll remove let's go to goal number two we've talked about this uh every time I've been with you so I'll just mention again you'd like to continue to work efficiently together uh one of the rules is a f minute rule which I understand you sometimes adhere to and so I would simply acknowledge that you've set that for yourselves uh you also have a proposed sequence on staff presentations uh to make those efficient so that you don't get in discussions prior to uh after the the public comment uh We've also had an idea about trying to enhance the public comment so because you want to do that you want to encourage people but to set that comment to at 8:00 so that you can get on and have it occur before your regular meeting so when you start your regular meeting you can move forward with those items people have had time to speak to you before that obviously on any specific agenda item they still have the ability but if they want to make General comments before they can do that uh item uh C is about the state of the county address uh folks would like to see that uh reflect more of this plan as at a status report of what's going on in our strategic plan and for all members to have the opportunity to give some input and also there's some ideas about changing the venue I guess you now have it in a formal venue to have it here in Chambers so those are for your thoughts there um I'll ask Suzanne to talk about repurpose to grow if if we need to but it's it regrow the loop they'd like to expand that to regrow valua that's an Environmental Education tree planting program uh and provide quarterly reports on your naming rights effort that's just so you're up to date on that and then opening the beach uh to vehicle driving parking between SB and the boardwalk and obviously that involves the state of Florida on that so that's a quick summary uh any questions comments who first uh councilman Robbins um chairman for the for the beach driving I know we've been over it every year for last three years um I understand the uh points of view of it would that be better suited since it is a state issue um getting it to our our legislature and putting it where it belongs would be yeah we just had a a legislative update two two days ago and then we we all already did our legislative updates um I would have like if it was an an idea I would like to you and I'm sorry I sit on here y'all are scheduled to discuss that sometime in the first quarter it's on your coming agenda yes that is correct and and just to refresh the memory though Danny and and members of council is as I understand that the discussion is still whether or not as a majority your board wants to ask the state to consider to change it and honestly there's more than just State Legislative issues that would need to occur there are things that would need to occur locally uh so I think it was Mr Reinhardt who most recently made a motion that was supported by Council to bring it back the first quarter of 25 talk about that issue but I don't think we've had direction from Council where you wish to go on that which is what I think the discussion was intended to yield I think in the interest of time remove it from today's discussion leave it for the first quarter and it's going to be an item okay th this is oh uh try Kent thank youman um my question was on B enhanced public comment options I don't know who brought that up it doesn't really matter I've had people reach out to me and say um we appreciate that it sounds like you want to enhanced public comment options but for the the individual said I work and getting here at 9 of problem so being here at 8 for that you know like it's going to shut down more public comment that people they won't arrive and get there so um I don't I don't know that I'm I'm on board with that I also don't know how that would look I mean who would be here at 8 AM to listen to public comment is that Troy can I can I ask a question I'm open to either way but I can staff correct me wasn't this presidents at one time in the past and how did it work back then does that did Troy's concern actually uh my memory it was uh 8:30 to 9 was uh uh was open public comment did people show up uh yeah we had definitely had people show up um 8:30 to 99: and then meeting started promptly at 9: so it was out really outside the meeting and the inside the meeting was as it is today uh at at the end I think at one point they may have adjusted it to start at at 9: and then start the meeting at 9:30 uh that was another variation of that but in both those cases uh the idea there was um uh you had your open comment but the but the meeting started promptly at 9: because we had an attempt to try especially with the and back then we had a lot more land use uh items and and to try and stay on track with all the people who were coming in and you know trying to keep on some sort of a schedule or time A lot of times they you know would at least say well is it going to be before lunch or after lunch and George was the full Council there at 8:30 sitting there listening uh what started it out was just uh the chair and then the uh as time grew on more and more uh started attending uh let me get this straight so the only the chairman was there chairperson was there and the public is here just talking to the chair for public chair because it was the chair it was actually named the chair's public comment because it was outside the meeting it really wasn't even part of the meeting and then it grew uh over time to that they were all there maybe someone got here a few minutes late but but the meeting hadn't started so at the end of the day but uh I appreciate that background because to be totally transparent and totally honest my first time ever in these Chambers was two years ago today when I got sworn in I had to be walked in by staff cuz I didn't know how to get here it my first time ever you know in these Chambers so I never came to that and participated in the 30 minutes just talking to the chair and everybody else didn't get to listen to what I wanted to say I don't know how I feel about that yeah and let me just give you I'll give you one other uh one thing that happened and I think one of the reasons that did get pulled into the meeting too is many times uh there would only be a couple of comments so what would happen is uh say it started at 8:30 well by 8:40 it was done so then you had 20 minutes basically before the meeting started so there was concern well we could have gotten gone and got started on some of those items if it had been within the meeting but the flip side of that was it was often a Time the constituents would come up and talk to uh the council you know in those meetings more or less what happens now at 830 when you guys are filing in uh you know that that does still occur but but it used to occur during that little Gap uh between the public comment and the actual start of the meeting thank you for that background chairman uh just my my thoughts on it we have given ourselves time limits we give staff a time limit we've uh asked attorneys to you know follow within land use issues within a certain amount of time we have given our meetings an actual time limit I I don't know I feel like if it's not broken don't don't fix it and I'm okay with keeping things the way the way they are instead of you know just the chairman sitting up here listening to comments from the public so Troy I don't disagree with you if I might sh me I don't disagree with you on keeping that that five the time in the beginning Mr chair however I I think this was inserted in here don't know who suggested it but I appreciate the dialogue was to try to be more efficient and our meetings don't go drawn out and I'll take this opportunity Mr chair and members to share maybe what what's happened is there been these big topics that have drawn out these meetings right couple times I suggested and maybe wrongly as far as selecting the timing when I did that to try to suggest maybe we reduce the amount of time during some of these Hot Topics but maybe instead we can adopt a rule that if the chairman has more than 10 requests to speak for for a specific item that we reduce the time to two minutes per person it's compliant with law still and it allows each person to go through just for the efficiency and allow everybody to speak and make the the meeting um flow smoother and um I think I think that'll satisfy that because what you often hear and and again in two minutes you can usually say what you got to say if you really reflect back and listen to the meetings we we start hearing a lot of repetitive stuff and even the individuals that are speaking as passionate as they may be and I respect it past two minutes they start repeating themselves not everyone but a lot so just to be efficient I'm okay with keeping it way it is maybe we set a rule whatever it is it could be 20 uh participants I don't know but maybe we could have a rule for that I just want okay and I'll just say and I'll just say to that thank you um and currently our rules say that for public comment at the beginning of the meeting it's an hour limit one hour correct which is why when I chaired that one meeting that the chairman was out sick and we got to that hour I asked the council are you okay because we had the you know a lot of people here want to talk about flooding and we listened to it went on I think it went on almost 3 hours and we did that because of the hurt that our our people were feeling so we do have that already in place we have well we have an hour we don't have the two minutes I see what you're saying and you're just so you know it it your ordinance does provide that you can reduce the time of public input to pay on the size of the crowd so if you did want to stick with a 60 Minute I think you I mean you've given notice that and you want to do this from 3 to two minutes you could do that the reason I'm throwing it out now Mike CU it's hard to do it when you have a full audience right but if we were to adopt a rule as as as governance for ourselves then it's clear that when we have more than 10 20 whatever the number of council wants to sit we announced it in the beginning of that particular topic we have 30 people that want to speak with this our rules dictate that we're going to reduce the time to two minutes for a real good reason to give you more efficient time so we can get through this so we can make the decisions and discuss what you're sharing with us that's my thoughts um councilman Santiago chairman if you don't mind just because we're we're conversing on the you said a little leeway with it my concern with that is the perception it gives our constituents that we really don't want to hear from them because we're cutting their time down that's one issue now I'm going to play Devil's Advocate when I first got elected to Orman there was no time limit you where clay you could come up to the podium at Orman and talk as long as you wanted and then we implemented a three-minute time limit and I thought oh it's going to be terrible people are going to it was one of the better things we did was you know making a time limit like every other government has so there's there's the the flip side to that I just I just throw that caution to the wind about if we make it two minutes instead of three minutes it might per be perceived by but if you spend it in the positive right I get it you're spinning it in the negative and I appreciate theog Mr chair sorry um I positioned it in a different way right I positioned it give everybody the opportunity to get through this we had people that left if you recall some people people left our meeting when we had people in the chambers Mr chair you were calling people and they said they left right and again no uh um um disrespect to any of the speakers all important stuff but you could get through what you got to get through on these Hot Topics in two minutes and again the reality is a lot of it is repetitive let's let's allow somebody else to speak too and I'm not I'm not criticizing either one of you it's important it's important but look at just the very title of it to be enhance public comment this does not enhance public comments it stifles it it it sends a horrible message to the people at whom's pleasure we work at I mean these are our employers um they're going to they elect us and then we're going to tell them we don't even have to be here when you come we're it's not going to be part of the meeting you can come before our meeting and speak that's that's horrible Deltona is trying to do that now they just had a mutiny at their last meeting the public hates this idea Mr CH let describe it as a mutiny well I would I I hate this there's 50 there's I this idea I think it's a terrible idea to start the general meeting um I agree with you there by the way I agree with you I don't want to change that good I don't think we need to change anything we if if we have an hour um I don't even like that rule I think if our employers want to come they have things to tell us um now we we can direct them more I can direct them more to speak on a particular item instead of at the beginning of the meeting it's and that'll probably stifle it too because not everybody can sit here all day or or all night but I I'm I'm adamantly opposed to to I to starting the meeting before and um uh Jake Johansson sorry toed off there for a minute um you toed off so joke I think the one hour the the question we have to ask ourself is is this a public forum or is this a business meeting uh if it's a public forum then let's sit back and listen to the 50 75 100 people as long as it takes uh uh 3 minutes at a shot um and and I can do that I'm not opposed to that if it's a business meeting then then let's let's stick with the 9 to 10:00 make it known at the beginning that we're going to listen to x amount of people at 2 minutes a shot you you have the the yellow slips chairman you know how many you have um or or three minutes and and whoever we don't get to you are welcome to stay or come back at the end and watch you know you can go on about your business and come back 30 minutes prior and and I don't know about you guys but I'll I'll stay and listen to the rest of them at at the end for as long as it takes um but but I I I think we have an obligation to the public but I think we have an obligation to the agenda items as well and and and when we drag our feet the agenda items go past lunch whatever on on a big issue and I I don't think that's appropriate either so we have an agenda and that agenda is on a piece of paper and that needs to be executed and I think we ought to execute that starting no later than 10:00 based on our other rule that says we're not going to be here more than 6 hours now now I suppose at the end of six hours if we're at the public comment at the end and somebody wants to get up and leave maybe that's what you do uh Johansson's not going to leave I'll tell you that um but uh um but maybe that's something we discuss but that I think that's what you have to determine is whether this is a forum where we get stuff done oh by the way or whether it's a business meeting and and we take public input at the beginning and in the end I think we can do both uh I think we out a limit the first first part to an hour and then pick up the rest at the end thank you County attorneys is that is the 1 hour hour rule now yes okay well I'm not enforcing it I'm surprised somebody hasn't called me out it's rarely ever happened it's R it um okay and and and I I will add cherman that that there there would be a couple ways to to skin that cat if we chose to stick to an hour by by for warning people we're going to go for an hour uh because because council's absolutely right at the end of 59 minutes you know you're the last one the rest of you suck wind until 12:00 this evening um uh I don't think any of us want to do that so we have to be consistent and and we would have to forewarn everybody uh as you do with a lot of the other admin items that you discuss at the beginning of every meeting um so uh so I think that's important to move forward if we choose to do that chairman next Who's just said chairman I did but uh Danny's been waiting for a while Council thank you chairman um chairman you might want to buy a lottery ticket because I I agree with you on this uh a little bit um there a bell I can ring that was about four times today it's just remarkable um where the majority of our issues come down to and and please nobody take this personal if anybody needs policing it is us we our our own worst enemies if you take a step back and sometimes when I'm counting the in between counting the popcorn on the ceiling at the house I'll watch a council meeting again just cuz the first thriller wasn't enough you need Netflix so with that being said in between the agenda items we we we have a tendency to talk um we don't follow decorum and and chairman that's you know that this is your show but some of these things in structure is this is why it's important so we get through this so it doesn't uh you give us an inch just like just like children and and and you want to take them out that mile equals to time and if we're trying to be more efficient and effective of what we do and handle the Citizens Business because there's more uh we can pack this Chambers but there's more issues in the county than just what's here in front of us and we have an obligation to service and he everybody but let's think about this for a second in the beginning of the meeting let's go ahead and announce it we already have the rule public comment 9 to 10 if it's you're here for an agenda item you can speak now if you don't get to it you could speak during the agenda item right if you don't get to it then you can speak at the end we have cell phones desk phones laptops tablets free hotspots and probably passenger pigeons if we wanted it for our people to communicate with us these don't go these things we all answer our emails there's a lot of opportunity but if we want to perfect this we have to hold ourselves accountable um and we haven't been so you know that's why I said at the beginning of this meeting and I said this to the and the council may be up to adopting this we need something up on this screen just like request received Robbins once Kent twice Don twice that way we know hey we're allowed 2 minutes but we're not allowed 50 btes at the Apple at 30 seconds to take jabs back and forth at each other you you use your time you got two minutes or three minutes wherever the heck it is that's it cut it off or we will never get anything done and we're doing a disservice to our people sure I can't thank you chairman I can agree partially with what Mr Robin said and that is with uh uh the effect that the members here sometimes it goes on because for me as always there are certain members who they're closing comments are 30 minutes an hour and I'm like goodness gracious man um yeah something that each of us could could could work on uh chairman I just my two cents on this also if we we should also Implement if it is on the printed agenda that's when the um public should speak on it if they want to speak on something not on the printed agenda that's when they come up for public comment but if they come up for public coming and they're talking about something I think it's it's um imperative that at that moment you interrupt them and say that is on our agenda um I'll hang on to your card I'll call you up at that time but now's not the time for that and then I I also agree that you know to let it be known we have an hour for this at the end of the hour we're going to stop because Mr Johansson is absolutely correct he didn't go as far as saying it but I'm going to this is a business meeting we have two times a month and for two months we only have one time a month that we are meeting and we have to chew through $ 1.4 billion of taxpayer money to get projects and things done in this community for our residents so it is a business meeting it's the only time that the seven of us get together and have an opportunity to talk and um make sure that we are following all rules set forth by the state of Florida and not violating Sunshine so that's another reason I think that they you know sometimes these things kind of go on but we have very important work that we're doing it has to get done thanks Don Dempsey do you have the Sor on your monitor can you see the names of the people that want to talk okay I'm not trying to take your place but I I assume that that was the case Don Dempsey Mike if we set up a system kind of like let's say we want to limit public comment to one hour but like everybody's saying up here we don't want to leave somebody hanging in the wind at the end of the 60th minute um could we set up something that if we just cut off public comment card submission so let's say no more public comment cards submitted after 9:00 am. then if we have 30 public comment cards we divide that by the hour so each person gets two minutes because there's 30 people that showed up they want to talk so they each talk for two minutes if 60 shows up and want to talk in that 60-minute window they each get a minute if only 10 show show up they don't get six minutes they get three minutes but that way everybody gets a chance to speak they get equal time as the other to speak and yet we still cap them at the one hour so I don't know if that would work that way everybody would at least have a shot at talking I think yes you can do that um I think your current rules allow for that if you Council was wanting to and also um you have a second public input at the end of the meeting so folks that if they wanted to they could speak then as well I know sometimes you might have somebody speaks at both times you can do that so um so I would maybe suggest guys if we could just figure out how long we want to keep public comment open in the morning if restrict it to an hour or and then just divide it by the number of comment cards submitted and give those people each that amount of time maximum up to three minutes but give them up to three minutes yeah but if it's 10 it's three minutes if it's 30 2 minutes I like that idea yeah I mean that way nobody's left out okay I think that's complicated but well I I hear one you're all in agreement let's set it to an hour and then I I'm not you're not I'm one vote too all right well except for you Mr chair I think there the rest of them would prefer to set to one hour uh and then I I see basically folks willing to try you know if they're 30 people folks you Haven an In fairness to each of you we're going to give you two minutes well I'm not saying necessarily cap it at an hour Jee I'm just saying if that's the number we pick however long we feel like sitting through public comment divide that up by the number of comment cards and give each of those people that amount of time our rules say one hour right now yes okay and if that's what it is R the majority says it's an hour if it should be more then yeah I wouldn't make a vote every meeting to what the time is going to be our r no yeah no I agree it should be our rules 1 hour currently okay well so I hear the majority saying one hour rule uh allocate time based on number of cards that you have In fairness everyone gets a chance to speak that you can uh other than that I will strike the would that have to come back as a policy change from our legal department no we could just adopt that it okay go ahead I'll just say you know something also we have people that come in and they speak two minutes and 58 seconds because they wrote this speech out at home they practice in front of the mirror they timed themselves because they want to be good stewards of their of our time and they don't want to break our rules H I'm just throwing that out there you know that that kind of bugs me a little bit because we have people that you work hard are dedicated and working on it they don't want to come in here sounding uneducated and they want to make sure that they use the maximum amount of their time thanks okay all right you stick with the hour rule uh and we'll just have to leave whether that's a real problem for you or not where you have more than 20 people if you got 20 people everybody gets the fre minutes easy uh if if not uh at that point you may say leave it to the discretion of the chair how you want to work out within that hour whether it's everybody or whether you know so many people get to speak but the rule is one hour so okay we'll strike the other I'll I'll open up okay sorry um I I I feel that we just accomplished absolutely nothing okay absolutely nothing and I just want to point it out I'm talking about regarding that topic got it I got it which is saying status quo next topic that's really what we did we spent how long we spent 30 minutes talking about this and we accomplished absolutely you know we're back where we started is okay public this is the hour time limit the rest of the council doesn't want to hear your complaints that's not the case that is not the case it's happened in the past I don't want to see it happen again but we just need to enforce the rules you know again this is 2025 so I'm turning a new Leaf Mr chair and and and and you're our leader as the meeting so you know regardless of name I think what we need to do is if that's the rule um then at that point you know you you ran to enforce those rules right and so I think that's that's the role you should play um with and we should avoid putting anyone in a position in a difficult position to say I want to shut you down The rules are adopted and these are the rules and nobody nobody should blame you individually for the rules uh amongst any of us this is what the body decided regardless and we're operating under these particular rules and as that's why I think where we were was we didn't accomplish nothing if we're saying these are the rules hold all of us accountable to it follow it blame no one other than the body well and I would simp to say Mr councilman if that's where yall at and that's a position you take I think you have ACC copy something as a as a group in terms of affirming it if that if that's the decision of the council that we hold it to an hour if that's the rule then I have you know I have no other option I just think it's wrong I this is a business meeting but it part of that business meeting is a public forum it's a business meeting for our constituents about their business and if they have taken time to come in and talk I I think we need to listen to them and we can give them that time if within an hour at the end we during the agenda item chair we're during the agenda item we're not I understand that um most of the people that come here work and they're not going to in a night meeting they're not going to be here at midnight to uh to talk again the motivation chair so if we can get the meeting done quicker they're not here to the end they're they're here and they we may may be at the end of the meeting in in three hours right so it's up to us this is on us we need to do a better job policing ourselves that's the end of the day uh all right Jake are there other comments on other items Jake and and Troy are still up I'm I'm I'm waiting for uh Charlie I am Charlie are we going to Charlie State the county chairman I'm still on this one I was just going to say um I'm glad to hear you say that it is a business meeting but I I disagree with you I don't think it's it's wrong I think we set the expectations and the standards are we have an hour at the beginning you can talk about it uh if it's on the printed agenda and if not then by the way this is it was a shock to me that we offered two public comments there's one at the end of the meeting as well John's always here and he usually follows through for us and and does that but it does give that opportunity chairman if there's something that they they want to say um and if it's something want they want to make sure that they tell us then they can get here uh a little earlier come in fill out their card make sure it's within the first 20 cards and they're going to they're going to be heard as as well as teams meetings Zoom meetings phone calls emails visits there's a lot of ways to contact us not as a collective body granted um but individually okay can we go to item C then please if anybody wants to speak on that councilman Johansson I think you said you did uh yes yeah I'm I'm a big fan of of this has grown into a u a a somewhat of a too much for me I think we ought to bring it back in the chambers and and just report um and report on the goals as we had mentioned uh and and not let it grow into a uh uh into a big deal there's here's here's an opportunity for us to do our state of the county let everybody know where we are it gets put on video and everybody can go back to it and Resort to it and take a look at it as they see fit um I know it it the cost wise it it uh it's neutral and and we have sponsors but um um there there's a lot of people that can't make it a lot of people that don't make it if you go to those events it ends up being a who's who of who's going to lunch and uh um uh I think we can we can better do it right here and uh and get on with B business that's just my two cents on that second okay um whoever else wants to comment on that I I will um I I disagree with with that I understand your reasoning um I think part of uh and I could be wrong Mr Ryan can maybe correct me I think the staff looks forward to it I think it's a celebration of the county I think it allows us to shine to uh people from outside who may come to the Ocean Center to to rent it when they see what we have available what we have going on in Valia County how well the ocean centers run how good the food is there um I think it's part of our marketing for the county and it is a some I I don't know if you said it or if I heard somebody on the other side of me saying that it was a who's who it is kind of a but it's it's fun the people that come come enjoy they don't have to come they come of their own accord and I just think it's something that allows our staff to shine and and each of of you um so I I I like what if Don wanted to go from east to west that's that's fine we still had a great turnout at the Deltona Center um and we got to show off uh that Center but I I would really be sad to see it just become a report in Chambers I think it's a bigger deal I think the county deserves um that that bigger deal um councilman Kent chairman I I could not agree with you more on this issue it is a big deal um we had sponsors at the one at the Ocean Center staff told me it like it was it didn't cost the county I think anything um except for you know then you hear you hear members talk about well staff time to create this presid presentation but it is a way to Showcase what has happened in this County for the year um I'm appreciative that it's not just the chairman Jeff Brower show you know each of us participate in this video if we want to and uh those that want to show up show up to that uh event and my favorite thing about it is that it's free to all uchia County residents and they can go to this event and even have a great lunch um I this is something that I think is um it's done ex exceptionally well and we've we've got the facilities to do it on the East End we're using some of the West Side ones as well I thought that went I thought that went well last year and um I'm I'm for keeping it how we're doing it David Santiago thank you Mr chairman make it quick simple I agree with you on this one Mr chair uh Congressman councilman Reinhard I go from chair to Congressman no I don't want that announcement being made I don't want that um I I agree um as a County employee for 30 years it was something we look forward to it was a time for us to Showcase so um no disrespect gentlemen but um I think that it does give the chance for staff to shine when you talk about not too many people showing up there was a lot of people in the land and there was a lot of people at the Ocean Center so if they don't want to go don't go if you want to watch it on the video watch it on the video but I think it does give a chance for the the staff to shine so I agree with you chair I hear the majority wanted to continue with the current practice so we'll move on okay item D uhan yes it y'all are youall familiar with this you need suzan to give you a quick background good I will just send you an email with an overview of how we are doing it and if you have any questions let me know do we have a member of the public who wanted to speak to that no thank you Alan um regrow valua we're all we're for it uh the last one's really just I should have put the word provide quarterly reports on naming rights just to keep you informed on your naming rights effort what's occurring there it's pretty much just an operational status okay I I I'll take it off the uh goals I'm just saying that staff probably should just do that anyway okay okay I don't think it should be a goal which one is it naming providing quarterly reports on naming rights yeah it's going to be a goal yeah okay let's go to goal three uh well you you did a today uh and you gave Direction about that uh B was and I I could hear all that is B part of that also okay all right Ocean Center uh Motorsports part yeah I just want to make sure you know for Don because this has been I mean this is your baby this is what you know when outoor recreational activity it is an outdoor recreation but you brought it to us and I I just want to make sure this doesn't get slipped in somewhere and we're like wait a minute we're missing it are we are we talking about continuing development of Motorsports Park yeah I think it's well I think it's for Motocross as well as for utvs and side by sides sure sure you know basically just trying to find a location for all those outdoor activities motorized outdoor activities yeah all right yeah thanks yeah I'll move on item is about the Ocean Center uh and you currently have a study underway about the rigging and capacity to to do that so that that is happening uh my understanding uh the next item is about the dog friendly section of the beach that you set up as a pallot making that permanent that is coming back to you for a decision in this first quarter so that that will set to Sunset soon right when is the sunset May it comes back to as it should be back before May because May is when that 18-month period was it's coming to you wildly successful correct and it does sunset with a requirement for the action to be taken to continue it and we'll be back we believe in March with a full report so it it really doesn't need to be a goal correct any it's going to happen as long as where there it's happening I can just take off you already directed it so I don't know the the the former Vice chair has to do some convincing I I'll convince you my friend okay boy Dudley's coming in that all right let's go to goal four please uh item a is and should have the word review there my error uh County funding for team valua uh then we've got a couple of items about taxing policy uh I think we we should remove a Mr chair yeah what does a mean policy thing can we we are partially funding them now correct you are correct question was is that you want to continue that level of funding or not was was a question do you want to review it or just take it off as a go that would have be an agenda item take it off I think yeah take it off it's on your agenda okay let's go if you a budgetary issue that's I think why we had it here okay and the only thing I will say is I think if we're going to talk about changing things like that we owe it to these some of these groups sooner rather than later because they do depend I mean in this particular case that team Lucia is really a partner of ours and they are our recruiting arm of our Economic Development so if we're going to change things they need to know because there staff dependent on it I don't recall discussion on I don't want to change it change anything so okay it's a worthy discussion it doesn't have to be a goal but um you know that they had a goal I I think it's a worthy discussion might not be a goal of ours but it's a worthy discussion but there'll be a staff follow-up on that item to do that okay if we flip it over uh we've got a couple of more subs things talk about in terms of taxing policy here item I is we consider roll back on all funds except those that are accepted there Item B is an alternative approach where you keep your millage flat to create a funding capacity for infrastructure projects uh when I worked with Lee County that was a path that commission chose and they generated significant dollars for a variety of needed infr structure projects I'm here sorry I I I think as an overall goal we should have a statement about being good fiscal Stewarts right not not specific uh putting us in a corner on on on positions like this as as a goal I I don't like that do I want to try to achieve these things possibly maybe but to put it as a goal I'd rather have a a statement that says about being good fiscal stewards and keeping taxes as low as possible something along well your goal number four is that I mean it's continue to enhance fiscal stewardship these were just oh I don't like I double I and triple I though I agree with you David okay sure take it off all right so you want to take off I double I and triple I well triple ey you're doing I mean George does that all the time yeah that that's just given practice I just need to see a sense of faces to take those off or not me yes okay all right I got got a couple it's fine is the is the state of Florida talking about getting rid of property taxes all together and go into a move to approve going into a uh consumption tax I like it I don't know but I'd like that discussion why don't you bring that up as an item well in the place of you know because again this was put in here really to give Ryan Direct ction because for us budget time is here you know we're now into January we start the we start the process so uh if we don't discuss it here then I'll probably bring back an item uh where we need a little bit more Direction so he knows how to build the budget of this year where do he really want to go and and again I think it was set up here uh to give some options of you know of an approach we know you don't really uh it's not approved and we and we really hone it down as we go on through the year but if the message can be to the and it does make my job easier because if the message can be to all the department heads hey this is what we're generally shooting for here uh it maybe means a lot more a lot less on The Cutting Room floor so to speak if they if they know the direction um because you know through the years we've got pretty good at you know removing stuff out of there uh but if they know hey don't even ask um that that save some time George for me if I may Mr chair for me I I would take the approach that um go from what we want to get done you know you hear from the council what do we want to accomplish we have some big ticket items I know we said where the fundings coming from but start from you know Council this is what you guys want to get done uh and give given the current landscape this is what your options are for for millage I'm not of I don't subscribe to the thought process of saying 10% across the board or 20% across the board I don't do that what is our mission what's it going to you help us identify this is what is going to take to accomplish what you want and then from there we start saying well maybe not this maybe not that that's how that's my preference so every elected official wants lower taxes sure till and low freeze until we got a storm water problem and then you say well back back 15 years ago so yeah I don't I don't want you to hemis in to to roll back or flat millage or increase millage we have some important things that we need to do and and we don't know how much we want to do if we want if we want to buy a sports complex it might cost us $40 million if we want two ball fields out and somebody backyard might cost us $55,000 um uh that's a lot of difference so so yeah we we do need to give George and Ryan some guidance but um I think as we get to goal number six it's going to become clear that that we may or may not want to spend money I'm facing some problems um uh that that may involve the general fund and other stuff and and truth be told George how much of our how much of our general funds paying people quite a bit good percentage of it right so so it's it's already been negotiated a lot of it um so you know we we just need to trim around the edges and give them some good guidance here but uh um I I think I think the goal in it of itself do what you always do and give us the best budget you can get and and no I don't want new desk for everybody if everybody's desk is okay but if everybody's desk is fall apart we need to buy new desks you know maybe we don't buy so many birthday cakes for Ben every day um Mike and I we've agreed to share a desk because and share a desk we get along real well thank you for so we're going to share an office yeah I I think you you and you and your team and and Ryan do do a great job of of coming up with a good compact budget that that we don't we don't need to lock you into something um this is every penny you can find I I want to know about so I can put it somewhere else if we need to when we get to goal six so but he County Manager just told us they Ryan needs some direction are you going to bring this back as an item or are you okay with what was just said well if you if I'm going to hang a little bit of my hat on what Mr Janson said of uh we'll do as you always do so we'll go and and uh and do that but I will probably come back with an item because uh maybe a little bit more detail as we get a little bit deeper into it because as you say uh there are things well if you recall a couple years ago and I don't want to go through that exercise again uh I I think all of you were going to hurt me uh but the uh when I did the mini budgets of all the Departments uh but I think you're all very you know now you're you're all veterans with this government so we don't really have to do that because a lot of that was education of what each of these areas have to are faced with but but we will be forward I think if there's areas where we got to get some direction specifically in that area I can bring that back and and and decide um so we'll go from there okay all right I'll just one more Don Dempsey yeah I I don't know if this is paralleling what Jake just said or not but as these studies are coming in probably the most important thing at least over here on the West side is dealing with the flooding issues and you know I don't like raising taxes any more than the other person but I mean if if we have to raise taxes to cure this flooding problem I'm definitely open for the discussion so I I mean I don't know what it would take I'd like to look into you know if some of the solutions are basically that we have to do land acquisition and just create more storm water space um I'd like to have a plan in place to what type of cost that would be and what type of tax hike we'd have to impose to do that sooner than later I don't want to I'd like to have it in the in the budget somewhere that if we do need this money or as soon as we find out about this money that we can have a way of you know getting it either through bonding or whatever but I'd like to have that as a quick process to hopefully a quick fix once we figure out the solution I I you know there's and and George there's a lot of wh ifs and scenarios right we got $134 million in HUD money coming from Milton right so correct so you know where we spend that may determine how our budget looks in addition anything else that's coming down the line so well yeah I mean we we're very fortunate uh that's one of the things we have some of these Federal programs that we did not have and I can tell you again in maybe history I had mentioned before uh we had been through multiple hurricanes and storms and uh we' have probably gotten more than we have ever by far actually we've got more Federal help than we've ever had before uh so just uh so some of these things we had the exact kind of flooding but we didn't really have any money afterwards to deal with it now we have maybe a fighting chance with uh some of the stuff that we have out there that's good news well so direction of George's continue his current management practice is being very conservative the budget and make clear the big ticket items for you so that you can do with those uh let's go to item C this is uh really a continued effort uh Vice chair did not submit this one by the chance anyway uh but it's you know it's again it's a cost prevention strategy how do you do more things so that you don't have to you prevent the building a new jail and all those expenses so her is there a way to expand that uh sir like to longterm cost prevention reduction strategies it says for the jail right um for the whole government can it be period sure sure continue long-term cost prevention reduction strategies period um the jail is great yeah but there's there's other things again this is these are Council goals let's let's keep it General and that way when we when we come up with a good idea well it's not the jail but we do it anyhow so um uh I just want to expand and and we can go that way below c as we move on during the here you know I can be the jail you know I I can be something else that we find a cost reduction strategy okay you you used the word jail so now uh Vice chair rinhart wants to speak um I I can't I love that idea uh councilman Johansson thank you um and it shouldn't be just about the jail should be in general um the reason why I came up with this is in discussion with her we were talking about the general fund and what the tax dollars pay into one of the biggest lack of forgive the pun Eaters of that general fund is jail operation jail food and and that's why we're looking for for ways to that is a huge longterm uh several counties are utilizing that and that's a and I'm like uh don Dempsey is about Motocross and Troy is about dog beaches and Matt Reinhardt is pass about reducing costs in the jail population with jail food so or with the the feeding of the inmate so that's all well how about I'll put the period then I'll put an i for example jail and then you know there may be other things item D now this is coming to you uh the beach charges as fiscal analysis going on and it is get to you before the sunset of January 31st if that's acceptable I'll just take that off since it's it's happening okay uh goal number five solution AR this is the permitting process again you've got a study going their way George alluded to it earlier uh there's and that I'm not sure when that study it's in progress I don't know what the expectation of delivery date is but you are going to have a report on how to improve your permit I think we should remove it though I think things are in place sure um I don't think it needs to be as as a goal because I think staff has already implemented in testing we just leave as a goal and staff are working on yeah we should take it off the list though all right okay let's go the new goal here uh We've added about flood uh mitigation prevention uh there really two I'd like to note next week on the 14th you are discussing a moratorium so because it's already happening I didn't feel the need to put it there because you've made a decision to have that discussion uh but we are talking about to what degree the county can assume a facilitative role in trying to getting all these parties there there are lots of folks who have to be at the table on this thing uh and the county can take a you know a facilitate role if I to help people together and get it going and then we see under there uh under Item B A number of very specific actions that would comprise your plan uh at a high level and so one I'd like you to look at that to make sure there's not something missing that you want to ensure gets addressed in the plan or two there's some concern you have about any item here uh I hope it captures all the ideas you had about how to address this Mr chairman for I was just going to say for a goal I think think a lot of this we're going to cover on the 14th how would the council feel about having a goal to make valuchi County more resilient that would be a because it's a we're not solve it this we're going to be working on this for the rest of our lives and and I think resilience isn't just flooding it's it's P Monte I I like it a lot better I add like resilient uh against all disasters and also financially resilient or which okay so those that could be your your ABC and D yeah and then taking out did you just add Financial resilience yeah just say a resilient county and say disaster flooding financial and whatever else you come up with there George oh yeah and then remove everything else right yeah we're going to deal with that yeah so to be there um can I ask one other question Mr chair Mr chair yes sir I'm thinking as we're going through this when as we get to items um every item we have has a strategic goal that previous Council have come up with would it how much of a challenge would it be on items to have which one of our six goals here that was um ala would have to say is goal number five goal number six or what you mean on the agenda on the agenda on the on our agendas and I don't want to do it just to do it I want to do it if it would be helpful and keep us on track that we're actually work chipping away at our goals don't they don't we put something in there in the staff report that sometimes oh something okay they're called strategic goals he they have now well that was from the right original strategic so so the pro yes not the problem I think the short answer is yeah yes I think we can come up of the way uh to try I mean there are some things that just will fall kind of might be stretched right right but uh just business you have but I think a lot of yeah a lot of your just standard business items uh but for instance I could just think I want off the top of my head real quick was uh when we did the uh NAPA Parts uh program at Fleet and you know that was a direct cost saving measure and that would have probably been a goal number two efficiency and Effectiveness two and four and four right four yeah en so so we could do something like that to show where they apply you know in Mr chair in in the beginning of well maybe about an hour or two ago I mentioned um a hierarchy gold comment of promoting economic Prosperity right um I I still want to find a place to put it as a headliner or something it could fit multiple areas but I personally like that kind of vision uh and letting people know that you know we're also focused on economic Prosperity it means a lot of things right like when we eliminated the uh the business uh license tax at the brt that promoting you economic Prosperity when we got of the CST promoting economic Prosperity right policy initiatives that we do can tie into that I just I don't know where to fit if staff can help there but if the council likes it seven that would be the simplest thing to make it a seventh goal about seven I'm okay with that I just don't want to lose I think had a goal of promote eote economic Prosperity you know if we're going to deal with a policy thing where do we think it's going to fall I I I don't know just my stretching it guys I just I don't know you're not stretching I I'm good with it if okay if Troy for it no I think can I think it's something we have to continually think about let's get it on there okay with your guidance I'll add a seventh goal in you have seven goals Mr chairman let me make one comment on the uh placing the goals on the agenda have a number of clients have done that there are two advantages to that that are very real one for staff it makes the strategic plans seem very real you know you often hear the criticism of strategic plans you do them you put them on yourself you never think about them well if every two weeks or whenever you're meeting you're thinking about it you know and it's obvious there what also is communicate strongly to the public that you are strategic Business Leaders you have a plan here's where we're working on it and so it it helps ask the question why are you doing something you know which is a really important question to answer to the public why are you doing this well because you know so I certainly encourage folks to do it I think it it it it really makes your plan much realer for everyone involved in it so good Council any other questions for the day all right thank you very much for the time I appreciate the opportunity to speak and to spend some time with you so thank you for bearing with us always a pleasure all right thank you her move to Jour public participation um do do you have any we have four two where is he no Liv in myri I don't see the other person uh JC figuro is he here he had wanted to submit it for the first um public participation but he submitted it too late okay he submitted it after the public comment portion was over okay John Nicholson anybody's glasses uh John Nicholson they to to beats side too bad I couldn't talk during the 8 o'clock meeting it was 8:00 it wasn't 8:30 it was under Lewis I showed up here uh twice I didn't get to speak because if you're late he leaves so it wasn't a half an hour he's nobody's sitting here at 8:00 off they go so um it's a long trip and if you don't make it you wait 12 hours until you can speak in the evening it was not Kosher um so I don't suggest you have it city of Daytona Beach did it their clerk sat there no councilman no mayor listened they may or may not have heard what the public said you get you get very few people speak because if you go an hour ahead of time then you have to twiddle your thumbs for 57 minutes they just don't come so I don't recommend that uh secondly you had an uh internal audit generally there for um financial reasons to make sure the money's coming in correctly going out correctly and it's not being misspent all right uh there's also an audit for um personnel uh when we changed I think I've heard several times that I mentioned that we went to 27% tax increase during that time period we looked at the the Staffing and we asked all the the department heads to check and see who could be let go in our finance department we let go 40 people that's a lot of people from One department so you may want to consider looking at somebody coming in do you need the 700 or whatever uh janitors could you cut them down you know whatever uh also uh your pay raises when you do percents uh that's a lot of money when I got a pay raise when I was working at the uh Plastics firm my 25 cents gave me less than $2 a month I mean a week all right but the salesman made 12,000 a week because of percentages so the percentage that you're doing remember this is a quarter of a million dollars and there also you have to do 30% on top of that whatever you give because it's benefits it's a lot of money all right you're talking1 $200,000 there uh per person which adds up all right um over time not for you uh also um Beach driving Beach driving is a few people on Main Street if you ask our hotel years they'll say absolutely not our business people will say no our residents will say most of them will say no because it's established we've gone through this we don't want to bring it up again but take a look at it it's it's Danny got in trouble over it you can't be honest because when you're honest they just Matt will never be forgiven so watch what you do thank you thank you and that's the end of public participation we'll move to uh County sir Hey sir uh be remiss I when the VB came up and yourself Mr Santiago were nominated for VB I did not um direct you that one of you needs to be voted as the chair and one needs to be the vice chair so we just need to get that on the record further I Nom I nominate David Santiago's chair yep call the question chairman yes call oh call the question that's your discussion okay debate all in favor say I I and there are none opposed yes so can we call you Mr chair now and so sir just for de facto the Mr Brower be the vice is that correct is that what we're doing okay I I only say that because the statute's kind of specific that's why I just want to make sure we're on record thank you and who is a second on that motion who somebody Howard second it was will you take the blame Matt Reinhardt okay now we're ready for the county manager comments okay uh one thing I have is uh good bit of good news very good news uh tonight you know was Jeff Dunham at the Ocean Center and that is a sellout 8,000 ticket so who's he comedian uh how many 10,000 8ou 8,000 tickets they'll sell a lot of beer too won't they they sure have David oh okay now I know who he is sorry we're being rude I didn't know who he was hly so I just wanted to again things are are popping ly's doing a great job and and these are important because as we they tend to build on each other you know if we start showing that we can pull 8,000 7,000 uh that goes a long way for when we try to get other acts so they they see that we are in fact successful so good job good job also to Michael Ryan's team who teamed up with the Ocean Center uh on our marketing efforts so we're putting full boore uh and again I think that goes a long way as well in a world of kind of a fractured uh marketing out there that's a Yan's job to get uh uh the word out to everybody what's happening at the Ocean Center so I'm very proud of what they've done that's it Mr County attorney no thank you Mr chair Mr chair okay uh County Council and we will start with David Santiago just want to remind Mike to call Danny tomorrow around 5:30 p.m. put it on your calendar please um you know uh well you've all reminded me that Friday is a common day for you to me me to make calls so I'll try to spread it out uh during the week uh um I was gon to say but um Mr re you you sparked something on the marketing stuff I think you said you know with the the Ocean Center if we could unless counil Jacks Mr chair get a um an update from Cyrus and his team or whoever you so choose on the recent changes that our tourism boards uh did with their budgets and how that's going and um being deployed whenever you guys feel appropriate but um additionally if we can remind them to be up here earlier this year uh so that we're not under the time frame other than that I'm done thank you Mr chair Don Dempsey I wasn't going to say anything but Cyrus as long as you're standing did I just hear that there's a third route now going with Aela yes come on up sorry I just when I I I thought I read that and I was really impressed I didn't recognize him you shaved the ex sh my gosh happy New Year Gentlemen please pardon my lack of deorum not coming up originally Mr chair County Council um yes so aello is adding another route to Concord North Carolina which is just outside ofce Charlotte and so uh it adds for more competition adds for the opportunity for prices to come down a bit with one of our Legacy carriers so uh and Breeze is doing good Breeze is doing fantastic right now their loads are about 74% so far but we're in the process of working in that marketing plan using some of that money from the cvbs and so they have a specific way that they would like to have that allocated up in their market so we're working with them to make sure that that is successful well congratulations that's great news thank that's all I have guys thank you you you obviously can't tell us a name but please tell us there's somebody else waiting in the in the wings that you're working on so we we have another carrier that is going to be spending some time with us around the races and so uh actually we exchange some pleasantries over the holidays and so they're hopefully saying that by the next holiday season they'll be here so still working on them still working on them but it's a market in the midwest that we've been anxiously trying to could bring on boards weren't you going to come ask for more money for a new terminal you didn't hear that oh yeah don't don't don't encourage now I mean we we they'll run me over with reest wor it's coming maybe we'll get him another gate if he behaves himself after the sports Fields I do like soccer fields though just you're doing a great job thank you thank you sir thank you okay uh Jake Johansson thank you sir uh the only thing I have is is uh I would like uh to gather consensus from from Council to start um start looking into how fuchia County can uh can better support our veterans um I've been talking to Brad and and a little bit Bob Watson before he left and and now Scott um about a program called um I've called it uh Vala values veterans there's there's a few things that I think we can weed out of our ordin es or rules or regulations all the things that make it just a tad easier for veterans to to to get things here in the county um and and that'll be with all stakeholders I'm I'm going to work a little bit with uh with Will Roberts here in the coming months uh maybe a little bit with uh with Larry Bartlett and his team and then the cities to uh to really work hard to to show our veterans how much we care here in BL County I would like to be uh the most military and Veteran friendly county in the state but that's hard to do with no active duty uh uh active duty bases here but but we do have space force just south of us and and I think we can do a little bit uh with Bard too to to make that uh a little bit tighter of a link um I think Tampa and Jacksonville are always going to kill us and to a lesser extent Miami um uh but but as far as counties our size and and with our Dynamics uh I would like to be the number one so uh with consensus I'd like to move forward with investigating how to do that and and with that will come probably some time and energy from clay uh uh Brad bbau and some of the other um uh some of the other department heads as well Jake if that's a motion I'll second it yeah please good any discussion on that motion and second motion by Jake Johansson second by uh Troy Kent all in favor say I I and it passes Jake is Will Boeing's Presence at Embry ridle help with it yeah so you know there's it's a multi- multi-product approach um but but you know I'm I'm going to put it under the economic Prosperity goal that that Mr Santiago just mentioned for the mere fact that that by and large I'm not saying 100% U but by and large um bringing veterans to Valia County uh they they work hard they show up to work on time they're trainable um sometimes the resumés are hard to read and fit people into but that's the kind of thing I want to do I want to get those people to come here the the Boeing people have those people right they're coming um but but um it's it's the rest of the batch I mean Russ is a veteran um and and we need to draw more people like that into our organization into Georgia's organization into the city's organizations and and get those people working and that that isn't to minimize the rest of the people here in the uh in in the county they all need help but I think veterans are an untap resource here and I run into them all the time and say I just want a job the guy or gal shows up to work on time and and and works his or her butt off and like I said they're highly trained I can take a guy that was uh Eric crewman in a helicopter and probably make him a great employee for Ben uh or or cob Cole or Publix or anybody else in the county we just need to link them and um uh veteran services has we've had some conversations with them I I just think it's it's there to be tapped and I want to tap it and make sure that uh we're getting the the right people in front of the right people to make things like that happen go tap it you're good very good councilman Kent thank you chairman Happy New Year to those that uh stayed and to the council and uh all the employees happy New Year to everybody Jake I really love the way it sounds vucha values veterans and I hope that some of your ideas are um some really substantial things for our veterans I'm I'm excited to hear what you bring to the table with that as far as you know Cyrus coming up and off the cuff sharing that information thank you councilman Dempsey and councilman Santiago for for bringing up the airport because it goes back to my comments with George and his evaluation George has an uncanny ability to put the right people in the right positions and Cyrus was one of those excellent hires I just hope that you're happy here and your your young fames enjoying vucha County and and living up there uh North uh orand area and uh you know it was all great news what you shared and I give Georg and Suzanne I don't want to leave her out of this I give them a lot a lot of credit with uh with that I say higher but I I could technically say steal you know they stole you from someone else and that's that's a great thing it's his birthday it's not his birthday but you shaved at the wrong time of the year and by the way it looks great the next thing I have uh very briefly my next items are you know the Ocean Center tonight Jeff D dun Dunham 8,000 a sellout this goes back to two years ago we talked about two years ago to this day we talked about making changes at the Ocean Center and the Ocean Center had its most profitable year and to hear that Michael Ryan is teamed up working cohesively um with Lynn Flanders there is is just wonderful to hear because we need to let everybody know not just valua residents but all of our surrounding areas the Ocean Center is back open for business and we are going to change it from 12 events a year to 40 events a year and uh and just keep providing great opportunities there our our off Beach our off Beach parking and Beach passes have so we have um had 55,000 uh participants sign up 50 5,000 and since January 1 we've had 9,000 new permits issued um I'm so excited I hope we have wonderful weather because I I think you all are going to see how wildly successful this is and last but not least Monday January 13th I have my district dialogue for residents it's from 5: to 6:00 p.m. at Bicentennial Park if you're listening online by the way B sentennial Park is a county-owned off Beach parking thing so make sure you get your pass otherwise you're going to get a ticket so I want I want you to show up I want you to enjoy but this meeting is uh it's open to the public and uh it's we talk about anything you want to talk about you have me for an hour 5 to 6: PM Don I I love that you had your um your I want to say meet and greet but really it was a community meeting it sounded like what you had town hall and and it sounds like you're going to have another one so with that I'll say good night thank you Mr chair Troy mentioned something about the the Ocean Center that I just wanted to add one quick thing staff question do are we since it's being much more successful we're getting are we capturing um uh uh demographics information on our attendees um so name location and with that being said if one day I know it's maybe early we can get some demographics where are our um uh customers coming from right is it just valua they coming from other places so when we get a chance I think that'd be good data for us amen thank you Mr chair okay Vice chair Matt Reinhardt nothing sir unless you guys want to talk about the jail no no I have nothing thank you councilman Robbins uh I just want to piggy back off with what Jake said I think he has a great idea with the uh the veterans and and just while sitting here listening to them uh Jake would you be I don't know how in-depth you've got it so far but uh I'd be interested your thoughts uh in the future any permits you know a lot of the veterans are obviously disabled some not some are um but anything to do with their disability whether it's when they have to redo their showers they Plumbing uh special ramps structures for their maybe their uh service dogs I I'd be interested in waving those fees or or that's okay that's the kind of stuff we all right thank you I have nothing else okay I I'm going to be really short I want to wish everybody a Happy New Year I want to thank the council for uh starting off this new year with um Even in our disagreements I feel like it was a very productive meeting and with a um um but I did I made a huge mistake this morning and I didn't think about it until after Troy got done in our opening ceremony when I think he did he I think he introduced his whole family and my family came and and I didn't um introduce them um but the ones that were here I'm just let me just shorten it to this um I'm not going to have a lot of closing comments for now on because I have to take on a part-time job because over Christmas I was informed by my children that three of them are getting married this year and um we are taking donations and one of them is uh Ben who's getting married on at Pon Inlet U on the beach and I have to say that the city of Pon Inlet has rolled out the red carpet and made it a really pleasurable and simple process but his fiance Sue was here this morning and I I wished I would have pointed that out um uh Boaz is is marrying Neeve and brayon is making marrying uh Ava I don't know if her father knows that yet um no he he does know that um and then then I'm told I might have a uh a daughter getting married this year so the boys are on their own they got to pay for their own wedding um uh if my daughter you know her boyfriend who we dearly love has given her a pop top ring uh on one knee and she kicked him and said come back when you have a have a real Stone so anyway it's exciting times in in our family and I bring that up because what Matt what you said about all of your assignments our families really do uh they serve right along with us and it's sometimes hard to uh to to remember that um our our first Ministry is to our our wives and and children we do this because we want to serve and love and love the community and u i in a new year I just want to encourage everybody to to um probably don't I'm speaking to me you you guys don't do this but don't neglect your family I've got nine kids I've got two left in the house I never saw this day coming I'm one of these really weird dads that didn't want to see the first one leave um I'd have been happy to just keep adding rooms to the house because they're they love each other so much and they're they're just enjoyable but I'm almost an empty nester and who that's hard to do when you have nine kids so happy New Year and uh we'll see you on the 14th e e e e e e