[Music] [Music] n [Music] [Music] St [Music] he [Music] he [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] all [Music] start [Music] a [Music] a [Music] [Music] w [Music] w [Music] don't [Music] a [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] a [Music] you [Music] [Music] you [Music] check one two [Music] check one 2 [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 minutes [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] training the kid to do the same which is okay if everybody would find the seat we'll start in 60 Seconds okay that worked well um we will start the April 16th 2024 valua County Council meeting at 4:01 p.m. uh we will begin the meeting and in just a minute I'll ask you to stand for the invocation and then the Pledge of Allegiance if you're if you are a member of a faith group who would like to participate in the invocation please just send an email to k green the letter K green ata.org this is Carissa green over here to your right and she will tell you uh uh how to do it and just get you all set up to do it but every any uh Faith group is welcome to participate and we really appreciate the participation this morning we have Pastor Tommy Clayton from Grace Life Church in Deltona so if you would stand with me uh for the invocation and then just remain standing for the Pledge of Allegiance thank you let's pray Father in Heaven thank you for the opportunity to to call on you and ask for for your wisdom I thank you that you love this County you love the citizens of this County you've appointed these men and these women to care for uh very complex issues that require a lot of wisdom and a lot of care and a lot of thoughtfulness I pray You' grant that to them today as they hear whatever issues they are facing I pray that they would stay United I pray that they would be fair they would be just they would be humble they would be reasonable and listen to people even many of whom may not share uh their worldview or or their take on things um but we trust that you put them here God and and uh we need them as a county what they do is important it's going to impact people's lives in a variety of ways so I pray that you would protect them from discouragement uh thank you that they're in this position Lord and that there's order uh in this County that we have protocol and processes for people that have problems and want to be heard and um just thank you for this day I pray that they would use their time wisely today and so would the people who come to share they would be fair and Equitable Lord and and we ask your wisdom uh for all these things in the name of Jesus we pray amen amen ALG to the fire of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Carissa would you call the role Please Mr Johansson here Mr Kent here Mr Reinhardt here Mr Robbins here Mr Santiago here Mr Dempsey here Mr Brower here so we have a Full House full Dias full house we will begin the meeting with uh public participation and I will just call you in in order that uh the uh forms were uh handed in when I call your name just come to the uh Podium please the podium adjust up and down so you can get the microphones uh close uh to you when you speak um everyone wants to hear and and uh it is being live streamed not to make you nervous um you will have three minutes to uh to to tell us what you wanted to tell us the the council will not uh respond to you for because of a matter of time but uh we do follow up with you if you have questions so 3 minutes uh you'll see a clock on the um on the uh screen above me and also on the monitor um at the podium so first of all we have Bella Schwarz thank you vucha chair and Council for allowing me to speak today and good afternoon vucha County residents while driving or biking how many of you enjoy seeing thousands of beautiful large trees bulldozed virgin lust green land turned to lifeless concrete and millions of innocent animals displaced and dead who here wants more subdivisions more traffic more heat longer lines at the grocery store more accents more polluted water who here wants more development I don't you don't she doesn't and neither does he and together all of us make up the people of VHA County my name is Bella Schwarz I'm 15 and I'm here to speak on behalf of all the students of delanta high school dayona state college and all the teenagers of Lua County who will soon be a voting age just to mention but although that is true I have to say the youth is upset about what this committee has allowed to happen to our nature and we want it to stop we do not want more development we do not want more development we want clean air to breathe that's filtered by trees clean water from our Springs in a clean County that hasn't lost its soul to Greed cuz once all that Nature's gone it's gone forever and the future belongs to us I'm here today to personally ask all of you to do the right thing don't otomate developers by changing zoning restrictions don't drain our beautiful wetlands and when casting votes concerning the environment and conservation let that kid inside of you do the voting I have faith in that kid inside of all of you cuz that kid is wise and knows that the green of a tree is better and brighter than the green of a dollar because one has life one is alive and the other is not things that are green are better when alive and sory each of you so blessed to be in the unique position to protect our future embrace it and vote green so that fusha County can remain alive as well thank [Applause] you is it Glenn Landers good afternoon Council thank you for the opportunity to speak here today I am Glenn landal 7 e and take you back to 2002 and I have no in ill inent with this some of these numbers were derived from the news journal and we know how accurate they are 2002 fuel was costing us $143 today fuel is $392 it's actually higher today 175% increase a Class A record was $335,000 today it's $145 5, 315 a flatbed 30,000 today it's 140,000 372 and insurance and mine is low I guess talking to some of my colleagues was $11,000 a truck today it's 13,000 a truck that's 1,200% increase minimum wage back in 2002 was $515 we couldn't pay a driver that then we couldn't pay a driver the $12 that it is now we're lucky if we get them for 18 130% the average County employee back in 2002 was making $21,300 average County employee today is $505 138% Top county management back in 2002 was $72,400 today they're around $246,700 was7 9 today it's $159 basically 102% a cup of coffee not at Starbucks but 711 was 72 today it's $219 and I hear that's low that's 203% a dollar back in 2002 with the inflation rate today is $1.72 the cost of living increases from January 03 to 424 is a 54.6% in increase so as you can see what I've just read off over the last 22 years everything has gone up over 100% yet the towing rate Remains the Same for the last 22 years this October I'd like to thank you for your time and ask you to consider a workshop thank you John Rogers good afternoon uh chairman and council members our County manager and our attorneys I I am also a second generation Tower um and I guess Glenn said it all I had an opportunity to speak with uh your assistant manager uh not Assistant Attorney and your County Manager um and uh I got the chance to speak to them a few minutes before the uh meeting um so we are definitely wanting to sit down with staff and discuss uh the uh fees and the clear the air and we just appreciate you guys uh um hearing us today you know six months ago we came here and we didn't get no traction at all and uh I can't believe it's been six months so if you guys could set us up a workshop uh Council we would definitely appreciate that I know um it's up to you you guys direct the staff and it's and uh you guys are uh in charge of uh setting uh ordinances and resolutions thank you Mark magnam good afternoon Mark Dayton record thanks for the opportunity to come out and speak um as you heard the numbers and uh brought a couple resolutions from other County ordinance at border hours Lake Flagler putam and you can look over those and uh just like to table something here thank you Helen Taylor hello my name is Helen Taylor I'm the owner of buddies Towing in Daytona Beach I am the first generation um and I'm a woman-owned business that's why I'm here because they wanted some women to come in and give them some poof basically what they've said is true we have not had a raise in 22 years we're all family-owned we're not Corporation corporated can't say that word um we we're struggling to stay alive and as our councilman I feel that you're right to help us do it our expenses are getting up and our tow rates are not so I just ask you to please consider increasing your rates we do need them every other county is doing it we're not asking something nobody else has done um it's just keeping up with inflation Insurance trucks work work taxes you name it everything's gone up except for our Towing rates thank you for your time Glenn landow you turned in two cards Amanda Balboa hello my name is Amanda baloa I am second generation as well we are family-owned business with Aeros service and towing we're located in Holly Hill um we're just here to show a united front again from the towing industry uh we would like to continue this to a third generation that would be lovely um I don't want my family Legacy to die here because we couldn't get a rate increase so um of course anything you could do to get us on the agenda we'd greatly appreciate we'll keep coming back until we can make something happen thank you Paul R Paul Richardson afternoon Council my name is Paul Richardson of the land let me make something ABS abundantly clear right off the bat life beginning at fer or conception is not inherently a religous concept in fact it is consensus of e uh enologists and biologists worldwide the carnik stages I'm pronouncing that right were implemented as scientific as in 1942 as part of the National Institutes of Health the national museum of health and the medicine's human development autonomy Center Anatomy Center excuse me the carnic stases are internationally required to be used professionally in all am ology textbooks let's take some quotes from scientific works on what the actual science tells us about when human life begins quote Deon begins with fertilization the process by which male Gite the sperm and female Gite the octay or the the egg unite to give rise to I hope I'm pronouncing that right too although life is a continuous process foration it is iCal Landmark because under oring circumstances a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the o oate or the the egg the new fzed egg unquote as you can see science says life begins at conception legally speaking murder is defined as an unlawful killing of one human being by by another the divorce and debate is not about uh a woman's health but that of the cult of murder given licensed to indiscriminately murder unborn human beings this same Cult of murder celebrates the mization of children to Young to fully understand hormone blockers and sex chain surgery this same Cult of murder celebrates can's state funded euthanasia for anyone and for for any reason the same Cult of murder celebrates gen ital terrorist organizations like Hamas and the houes funded by Iran this culture murder needs to be delivered a huge rebuke I call on anyone who has moral Clarity and basic scientific knowledge to vote no on Amendment four and put an end to the evil agenda of the cultural murder here in Florida God bless Lua County God Bless America and her Eternal Ally Israel thank you Patricia Ransom good afternoon Patricia fanom a resident of Bear Creek Village in Orman Beach a group of Orman Beach residents scheduled an appointment with Clay Irvin on March 15th to get questions answered concerning the process for the field terminal no one told us until we arrived that it was a conflict of interest for clay to meet with us we met with attorney Soria Amy Michaels and Clayton Jackson attorney Soria educated us on his job working as County attorney he stated he is to make sure the process is fair and he is unbiased a binder was turned in that day containing compiled letters of O opposition we are submitting documents in the public record on this day April 16th 2024 the following are letters that have been submitted fuchia County school superintendent Sheriff Chitwood an official statement from the city of Orman Beach mayor Partington the Orman Beach Chamber of Commerce a joint statement of opposition from the Orman Beach Fire Department and Orman Beach Police Department the valua league of Cities state representative Tom leak the Bear Creek HOA Pine Run HOA the Sierra Club and retired Judge Joe will please note that all departments within the city of Orman Beach are under the umbrella of the city letter we are also turning in 4,400 signatures from belua County Citizens in opposition to the fuel terminal with comments included in addition we are including a letter signed from the HOA and 146 Bear Creek residents that was sent to the FAA in August of 2023 expressing their concerns of the fuel terminal as it related to the airport thank you very much for your time Katherine pante Katherine pante Studio Daytona Beach to quote Tom leak and the Orman Beach Observer as a veh opponent of the proposed fuel terminal project in Orman Beach I am working every angle to derail this project additionally I call on the leadership of vucha County Council to join me and make every lawful effort to stop the proposed fuel terminal project in Orman Beach repeating additionally I call on the leadership of Bia County Council to join me and make every lawful effort to stop the proposed fuel terminal project in Orman Beach did the valua County Council make every lawful effort to stop the proposed fuel terminal no they did not five council members voted against the moratorium that the county attorney and staff sold to the residents as the best legal path forward to address the current I2 industrial zoning countywide those five council members voted in unison giving the appearance this has previously been discussed among them prior to the February 6th vote something else was out of sync neither the county manager nor the County Attorney stepped up to the podium to address the council and recommend approval This is highly suspect because when the county staff want something passed they definitely make a pitch and sell it to the council we have witnessed this in numerous Council meetings attorney Soria gave no answer as to why neither County staff or the County Attorney did not recommend approval to the council some of our residents are former legal professionals who have combed through our County ordinances and Land Development codes our own ordinances should prevent this project from ever being built if used appropriately these have been presented in both letter form and during public comment numerous times attorney soraa claimed they did not apply referring to catchall zoning it appears like the goal of County staff and the five council members is to interpret our county code of ordinances to suit the needs of a foreign corporation how is this Fair unbiased process for uchia County residents something is definitely aai when a foreign corporation who refers to themselves as an 800 pound gorilla boasts about being blow and go which is slang for getting dirty work done fast and furious is given more property rights by this Council than every resident or business owner within a few mile radius and if we actually think about things that opening prayer where everything you do affects every resident in this County thank you Elana craft so the video you see playing on the screen features the 4,400 signatures and comments submitted by concerned valusa County residents in opposition to the fuel terminal it takes approximately 3 minutes to quickly scroll through these thousands of names each of them representing real lives real individuals real voters who do not want this massive fuel terminal in their backyards can you blame them valusa county has industrial two zoning that is referred to as a patch all the fuel terminal does not require a special exemption zoning to store 20 million gallons of fuel next to residential neighborhoods a sports complex Sr parat a nearby airport with student Pilots an existing flooding of 65 Bear Creek Homes as well as infrastructure that is not appropriate for such a project also the property contains Wetlands when questions were asked about security being required for such a facility attorney sorya said the county does not require security we asked what agencies is the application we need to be submitted to at the federal and state levels attorney Sor said the county did not know when asked what documents the county would receive from state and federal governments attorney sorya said none Mr Irvin as the best in the business I hope you're listening right now I2 zoning allowing catch all without security requirements Public Safety is in the charter does all this sound like a suitable location for a 20 million gallon fuel terminal additional examples of heavy industrial include but are not limited to Aerospace M Aerospace mining oil drilling locomotive manufacturing and chemical production valusa County allows any industrial use and to the statement that the council does not want to rehash the it zoning the response is the I2 zoning was never hashed in the first place please review the I2 catchall zoning and special exemption zoning and one last question for Mr Irvin attorney soraia and the council why is there no time frame for a developer to respond surely the county realizes that more development is on the horizon with 2500 homes 2.5 million square fet of retail office and light industrial warehouses coming to Orman Crossings nearby the continued residential development in the area escalates all the issues brought forward including the lack of infrastructure and flooding questions thank you Suzanne Shyer I'm Suzanne Shyer and Orman Beach continuing along with the septic permit the Department of Health requires applicants to connect to sewer and water if available we asked who makes the decision since sewer and water are available in the area attorney sorya told us to ask the city of Orman Beach we did ask Orman Beach city planner Steven spraker and included attorney Randy Hayes in the email the response was the same as previous the city commission voted unanimously on September 20 2023 not to Annex the property or provide utilities nothing changed attorney sorya but the county already knew that continuing to the question who can file an appeal attorney sorya clarified after the decision is made any affected person can file an appeal we asked for the definition of affected person and the process for filing an appeal to be emailed attorney sorya said he would do this there has been no email sent eight people were in the room when attorney sorya stated he would send the definition of an affected person and the process there was no misunderstanding you see it's unprofessional to say something will be done and not follow through the page for the fuel terminal on the valua County website has not been updated since February 28th pacero Associates met with the city of Orman Beach and toured the Orman Beach Airport to gather operational data they are gathering data from the airports in the area why isn't this on the County website during the meeting with staff a concern for the lack of transparency was expressed that same lack of transparency still exists on March 22nd a new list of follow-up questions was submitted to Amy Michaels by email as of today we have not received a response when might we be hearing back with those answers please include the definition of the affected person and the appeal process at the same time one piece of information that attorney sorya made clear is the Valia County Council sets the policy that he as County attorney is to carry out that is called politics while there are laws in place the council has not addressed fuchia County's responsibility to the catchall zoning the charter the letters of opposition presented here today did the vucha County Council make every lawful effort to stop the fuel terminal the vucha County residents say no thank you for your time John Nicholson John Nicholson Daytona Beach side uh let me start off with a young lady first one that to speak she wanted no development and she wanted and said that nobody wanted development well I do absolutely I want as much as we can afford to have wise development but development nonetheless I like the idea of having lower taxes I like the idea of having better quality um colleges and high schools I like the idea of having tourists come in and pay for our bills there are a lot of advantages to having development the larger the city the more opportunities it offers Museums Art Etc secondly I don't want to beat a dead horse but 22 years last meeting it was 20 years 17 years again I ask you to update every five years I have no idea how much money they've lost over the last 22 years because we didn't incrementally increase it so I'm asking you are people in the city county and the state cannot afford to lose money as we neglect things to keep on top of them uh third yes he was correct on the abortion issue I don't like to use the word abortion I like the word murder uh I come from a science background and when that zygote is created it creates hat a human being you all know about DNA half from the father half from the mother it is a unique different entity you cannot kill another human being regardless of whether you're the mother or not it also brings up the problem with what do you do if a mother can kill her child but a father can't kill their child not equal third um the fuel dump I don't know how many times you're going to hear this people are not getting the information you think they know it's still out there that David Santiago would vote for the fuel dump and he didn't say that but they believe it wholeheartedly when you say be cautious it doesn't mean that you agree when you say that nobody up here wants to prevent the fuel dump you haven't been listening to Detroit to Jeff there are a lot of reasons why there was a 52 vote it had nothing to do with back door dealing all of you talk to County Manager all of you talk to the lawyer there are other ways to get your information there are other ways to make your decision without talking to each other and the public has to know that lastly I wanted to talk about something I'll talk at the end the the Tona Beach area number one in luxury tourist accommodations thank you Council that brings us to uh the first item on the agenda the consent agenda does anyone have an item they would like to pull for a vote or for discussion I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented second motion to approve the entire consent agenda as presented by Vice chair Kent seconded by councilman David Santiago any discussion all in favor say I I any opposed and the consent agenda is passed 7 to zero chy did you want to make your statement I did uh Mr recton Wald I think that's seven meetings in a row now where your staff has been running efficient and effective not one item pulled from that agenda and I just give you public kudos for that we all saw it coming I'm gonna have to pull one next week just for the fun of it by the way a couple council members are talking about pulling one just so that we can break the streak George just so you know just be prepared we need to find one next meeting okay that brings us us to item two the purchase of 1568 and 1596 North Wilden Woodland Boulevard D land property for the supervisor of elections office and a warehouse good evening Janine Jennings Director of Business Services Lisa Lewis supervisor of elections fuchia County I'm also here today I just wanted introduce that we have Carl lent from um SVN Alliance who is our County realtor and back here we also have Tony Brown the VP and Secretary of Shan re Holdings who we're buying the shopping center for and Jim Corbett our director of facilities um we are seeking approval to by the Gateway Center on North Woodland Boulevard it's actually 1444 through 1588 and another partial 1596 um with the intent of moving the supervisor of elections out of her lease on Woodland Boulevard and combining it with the warehouse that is located out on Highway 44 um it will provide her with an additional 5,635 Square ft uh the funding from this comes from she has put aside almost $6 million in our CIP program for over six or seven years and also the remaining of it will come from our sales tax trust fund fund um which is technically a reserve um the total price for renovations is 25 million and uh with the leases of the shopping center and uh the elimination of her lease we um anticipate conservatively having this paid off in 17 and a half years um which is a very good return on investment for us I know a lot of people think well maybe you're you know it would take longer than that but we've done it very conservatively with filling up that building and uh just uh very quickly her lease right now has an automatic 3% increase every year so that 261,000 starts off at 261,000 but by year five she's over $300,000 a year and a building that we don't own um I'm going to turn it over to Lisa if you have any questions good evening I just I want to take this opportunity to thank you for considering this offer of purchase of a building as you know as Janine said we have been looking for a building for a long time for a warehouse um and now we want to combine the warehouse and the supervisor's office I have always felt it is better to own where you have something at the end of your mortgage payments rather than nothing at the end of a lease payment so with that I have found this building and I will tell you this goes back a little ways when we did a voter registration event at what was Frontier Communications at one time in this office space and how it was laid out and the space that was there was just phenomenal and ever since then I have been interested in this space But at the time it wasn't available uh so we looked elsewhere and our home now was has always been a temporary home until we could find something permanent and I believe we have found that in this space and not only is it just spending money just for the supervisor's office in the warehouse but it also give some income coming into the county with those rental retail spaces that can be leased so I think that's a win-win I will tell you I don't have to tell most of you in this audience or even you up on the D that the county is growing not just with the development but with that development comes the people and with the people they register to vote and that means polling places and more equipment and you need a place to house all of that I will tell you that I have never begged for more places to host elections than I have this year it's getting harder and harder to find them we went from over 100 locations back in 2020 we're down to 90 now because I've had to combine but we still have to have the equipment for all of these voters and we need the space for that so bringing the warehouse and the supervisor's office together would be a big plus for us um I will also tell you that our warehouse out on 44 would open up that building for the county I believe rad and Bridge is probably itching to get in there as fast as they can if we do move out of there it is a nice space but and as she mentioned we will have room to grow which when the county grows we grow also just like every other office in the county does also so I respectfully ask for your consideration on this building I do want to add also we are bringing all of our furniture that we have where we are the cubicles computers desks tables if I can get the double doors that I we purchase I'm going to take those also shelving I mean anything that we purchase that is the counties is coming with us so we do not have to buy new items I will tell youall there's only one thing I want new I want to new flags for the office when we do move because it it they just look sharper when they're new so I respectfully ask for your consideration and fingers crossed thank you thank you please uh remain available for for questions um uh both of you does any council member have a question let's start with that first I do Matt Reinhardt thank you chair Lisa you just you answered one of my questions I wasn't sure where the warehouse was but you said it's off of State Road 44 about how many miles is that from your location it's right at four and a half four and a half miles and this would put it at zero correct so with all the talk about um voter integrity and Counting ballots and things of that nature especially in recent recent days uh this would obviously Supply you with a much more secure location sir my understanding is it has access on the back of it with the big large rollup doors so the trucks could back up into it so even more secure thank you yes three loading docks three loading docks is there a way to secure a fence around the back area as well I'm not sure it could go around the whole perimeter of the building think that question before space yes um you said it gives us more room to grow which I agree this would also possibly uh as we see the sheriff's department is trying to get away from as many of those leases as possible cuz we're just throwing money away and it's always good to own especially when you're buying a home as opposed to paying out rent and paying someone else's bills would you say and I may put you on the spot a little bit your current landlord is it a good relationship right now if I'm putting you on the spot forget it that's it it is not the best it's not the best so we we've had a number of leaks in that building it's been a struggle to get trying to get them repaired the air condition has been an issue I will tell you this from driving in that Park parking lot it's probably one of the worst parking lots I've ever driven in this one's just been repaved ABS yes sir so we didn't have to pay for that no we did not okay um and we when I say about the opportunity for it to grow there might be an opportunity for other elected official offices that may currently lease areas or they're growing as well to possibly move into that location down the road just a possibility it is yeah absolutely but I do like the fact that we can collect rent Mr lens I'm not trying take away any business from you so but thank you very much I appreciate your your uh cing thank you and answering that one question because that is a difficult one thank you who else has a question for Don Dempsey go ahead I um having frequented Sunny's Barbecue for many years to to attain this belly um I remember when Frontier was leasing out of that I don't know who the owners are but I remember there being there was a big struggle with parking between the Sunny's Barbecue customers and the frontier employees and if I recall I remember seeing parking areas reserved for Sunny's customers only that were in the red the the area that we're going to buy the Count's going to buy so has that been resolved or do they have a long-term lease there is an actual lease for 9 parking spaces that's it that is it okay so there's now I should say I the county but the office I am a compassionate partner and I you know Frontier did Mark off spaces that said Frontier Park and only they even had a security guard out there to prevent anyone going to sunnies from parking in their spaces it's going to be a fight for parking spaces if you will during elections right and I don't know that any of us can keep people from parking anywhere now I will keep them from sunnies I will make sure of that but you know everywhere else it is no hold SP if you say but that's all they have the rights to is basically none of the County's parking spaces okay and how when does that lease end do you know by any chance I do not not sure of that one sorry um do you know what this building was purchased for and when I was trying to look it up on the County website and I couldn't get it to pull off what it was purchased for how much the yeah the sellers bought it for and when they bought it how much it's appreciated in value since they've owned it do Carl do we know that yeah how much did the purchase price was for for the sellers the the parcel was purchased together with the adjacent property across the street so oh okay yes so so you're you're it's not Apples to Apples oh it's not okay were you asking when the proper purchased by the current owner can you tell us your name please and who you're with uh my name is Tony Brown and I am the property manager and the vice president secretary of the corporation that owns the building okay the building was developed yes sir by my original partner Leon Berlin who passed away and numbered years ago and he was involved in the original development back in like 1986 I think it was 86 or 88 it's never changed hands no time oh I just for some reason I was thinking it well there was another partner that there was another partner in the development and Mr Berlin subsequently bought out the first partner do you remember what that appraisal was back then when it was bought out do I remember what what the appraised value was I I have no clue I was not involved in the property at that time okay okay thank you guys very much that's all I have other questions from Council everybody else up is up for you have questions okay all right uh Danny Robins uh thank you chair couple questions trying to make it as quick as possible how long's this property been on the the market it's it's really not on the market I approached Mr Brown myself and asked if he would be willing to sell sell as we were looking for a place and trying to get out of leasing I approached him about selling the property and he was open to it and so in talks okay we have come to because retire yeah he does he does want to retire but he didn't think this soon but the reason I was asking uh Miss Lewis is it's a very Niche property you know it's very uncommon for somebody to come in and take the whole kitten Kaboodle just in my my experience um do we have a list of the uh the plus pluses once we assume this um for instance we do buy this building I see that has a couple things here that are very costly one is the flat roofs and there's always problems with flat roofs and there's M I'm I'm guessing and believe it or not I used to put roofs on when I I first moved down here um there's millions of dollars worth of roofs and and expensive repairs do we have any project numbers on the the uh age of these roofs and are we going to be um uh what we're looking at in terms of maintenance repair or complete replacement once we get this yes we do good evening Jim Corbett facility management director uh we did do uh pretty substantial due diligence on this building uh prior to entering negotiations the area over her um um floor space and office is a currently what we call a degrade um we did an initial Report with Arc they recommended full replacement however under our Roofing assessment contract we had a separate firm that doesn't necessarily do the work they just do engineering on it um they came back and said we could get an additional three to four years with approximately $155,000 in emergeny repairs now um Lisa and I haven't discussed yet I would prefer to we programmed in the renovation budget to replace the ENT roof in its entirety um just for the simple reason that she's encountered so many difficulties with leaks and we feel feel like it would be prudent when nobody's in the building to go ahead get all the HVAC units replaced as well as the roof in that area do we have once again do we have a number cuz what I'm trying yeah approximately $880,000 for the roof full roof replacement and is that just for her building or all the other auxiliary that is for her building the the other sections of the roof aren't nearly as bad as hers they were BC grade so okay but I can almost tell you um they were probably um they're probably going to need it so you know that's that's one thing um that that I'm I'm considering in this um how about I saw that we did the the payment have we got a every couple years we have to reseal it do we have numbers on how much it's going to re cost to reseal it for the parking or the roof parking lot Park parking lot uh with it just being resurfaced we're probably going to get S to 10 years out of that before we have to touch it I did do an approximate cost typically we per square foot we're looking at about between $1.7 5 and $3 per square foot for maintenance cost annually and I I did put uh I believe it was about 250 a square foot in the uh proposed budget um and that and includes that 17 and a half year return on investment so there is a built-in maintenance cost Associated there and AC units how much for for AC units for everything roughly a million dollars for every that's the entire building okay and there's I want to say don't quote me on this but upwards 40 units on that building so there's a substantial amount of AC work so we're up to about an additional 2 million there how about flooring are we going to have to put new flooring and uh any additional um renovations to get this TurnKey un leasable to uh our CL potential clients so you know that's going to be a discussion with Carl how we DET negotiate these leases with the ten tenants a lot of them will build build a suit um you know I I don't typically want to get investing in a tenants rental if they want to come in and lease it then they do their interiors and that's anytime we lease a property we go in and do our own build outs and fund them and is there um any upgrades uh that I didn't mention um that would be assuming kind of the liability on in terms of uh anything I missed whether it's a units lighting maintenance flooring is there anything else that I I missed that we fact we I did a comprehensive uh renovation repair for her area specifically but some of those those line items do include uh the full complex such as uh security system for the building obviously we want to get our CER um approxim we've got 250,000 budgeted approximately for that okay and we're going to be taking this off the uh and what are what's our tax revenue off of it right now that I can't answer I I I have not looked at what the tax roll is in the city also City okay the majority of it okay um that's all I have for now thank you thank you any other questions for staff chairman I I I do have one question but it can be tied in with my comments so they can start the timer for me I'm fine with that okay I I have one question for let me Matt did a good job of as asking most of the questions that I have but he asked you about your current situation and I'm just wondering if you could go into a little bit more detail you're you're paying rent now for lease and what happens when you have a maintenance issue are they just you make a phone call they're taken care of or what's your experience general maintenance facilities does handle for us but the the big items that we have had from just about we moved in April May of 2020 and August of 2020 we had a deluge of rain that came and knocked down the ceiling in one office that ruined quite a bit of equipment not voting equipment but computers Wii that we use whatnot it just and this same office has done it three times we have had leaks all over the building we have had what they call affectionately pigs the little siphons that collect the water and comes down into a bucket All Over All over we have been very lucky that none of it has hit our vote by mail equipment or any of our voting equipment or our server that collects all the data for tabulating votes it has been in the server room but has not been over the server and if we know rain is coming we have big tarps that we usually cover what we need to in in the event that it does come through but we all over cubicles it has leaked they did replace the roof finally which was promised to us about the first year year we were in there they just replaced it last year we have still had some leaks the roofer blames it on the HVAC the HVAC blames on the roofer this last couple rain that we've had that haven't been that heavy but luckily we haven't had any leaks and they actually just this week came and removed our last two pigs that we've had okay and then have had several issues and it's been facilities that has handled what they can but but you know like a roof and the HVAC is on the owner so do we get reimbursed we have been R rent deductions to cover their the cost that we we just take the reimbursement yes off the rent um just real quickly to go back to the parking spaces that councilman Dempsey was referring to we will receive rent for those spaces yes from Sun's yes okay all right uh Troy Kent thank you chairman like I said I have one quick question and then if you don't mind chairman I'll just go right into my comments um it's for Carl lens I have a question for you and uh and just complete disclosure Council Carl and I played on the same little league baseball team when we were 10 years when we were 10 10 and 11 years old nice to see you again Carl and by the way the guy was a great ball player back then um Carl as as the realtor for the county talk to me about your comfort level uh with making sure that we get all of the other units rented out and then a timeline with where a reasonable timeline where you think that will take place yes certainly um we are lacking Supply that's why we're at this point basically um Janine engaged me a couple years ago and as well as Lisa to go find and um we are drastically unders supplied and available spaces in this market um in all of alucha County for that matter so um that's why we're here at a point where there's some extra property that needs to be leased um because this ends up being the very best option that we could find um without doing construction and you all are well aware of what the construction costs are these days so um regarding the leasing as soon as as soon as some of these maintenance items are addressed um we'll have a full-fledged marketing effort to um to make sure that these spaces are leased I my best guesstimate would be within 12 months all of the the space will be 100% occupied thank you very much uh that's all thank you okay Council I I'll tell you where I am on this and I'll I'll tell you how I got to that point um the supervisor of elections Miss Lewis reached out to me last week we had a phone conversation she wanted to meet in person I said is that really necessary I think we can just do this over the phone nothing against you Miss Lewis but I thought we could handle it over the phone I thought the conversation went well but at the end of the conversation she still wanted to meet in person so I said I don't I guess you're not not completely confident in the conversation and she said not completely so we we met in person and Janine was there as well and by the way we met at Sunny's I love that place too Don and uh I was able to put eyes on the center and actually go into the building that our supervisor will utilize as her new office and storage area one of the reasons I think she was a little concerned about my comments was I said why would we spend this kind of money when I we can keep you right where you are for 43 and a half years at this rate you know for this amount of money we can keep you there for 43 and a half years and you know she talked to me about the importance of owning and I agree with that except that 43 and a half years kept jumping out at me as you know it's kind of tempting to me and then she let me know that you know she wanted me to look at the center and that we would own the entire Center and I said now you're tickling my buy and Bone a little bit so I talked one of my questions to Janine was you know when do when does the county when do the residents of uchia County start seeing a positive cash flow if we purchase this property and the answer was 17 and a half years you know um for for a guy 49 years old if I was doing this privately I don't know that I want to wait 17 and a half years but for a County who's going to be here you know I like this idea of making money for our residents I like the idea of giving you a permanent home where we are more uh we have more control of your location and if there's a problem we can address it rather expeditiously I I like that I like the idea that your storage area is going to be in conjunction with your offices I like the idea that you have room to grow for offices in that exact same space that you have I don't like this picture that we're showing everybody because the picture shows the parking lot not redone and that parking lot has been redone if you've not laid eyes on it it's it's it's beautiful and the center the center is is beautiful so because of of those reasons and you know I I can hear both arguments about taking this off the tax rooll Mr Robbins I hear you on that um and then you know you hear the argument about competing with the private sector because we're owning something like this listen I'm all for the county of uchia making money for its residents and that's going to happen eventually that's not a bad thing and I can argue that um and and feel like I'm you know holding my own with anybody on why I made this decision I'm also appreciative that for the past six years you've been saving money and you're coming to the table with money to help us purchase this so for those Reasons I'm I'm a yes on this thank [Music] you councilman Dempsey yeah um Lisa I was just curious you know the parcel you remember where DCF used to be and the sheriff's office for district 2 used to be and Burger King used to be on the south end yeah until the tornado wiped everything out and now it's all vacant you know that's that's up for sale as well have you looked at that area at that location we had looked we did look at that before okay could you tell me how much were they I see call your has the listing on that how much how much was that how much are they asking for that compared to I'm not sure how much they were asking but to build is going to be they have a 43,000 square foot structure just west of the ABC Liquors which is convenient for some of us I guess but no I'm just teasing um but I'm just wondering why that is least it's least yes I don't know if you remember when Frontier used to be there they moved to the North End and then it was Sykes and now it's another name now and they wer working from home but they are all back in there and they it is leased so it is occupied that building is okay do we have any idea what they're asking for that but just none okay I was just I mean this is a smaller know you're at you're going to get another 30,000 square foot of building as opposed to this location I was just curious if this was explored but as far as buying versus Leasing I mean I there's a big difference between being a guys there's a big difference in my opinion of being a flipper and a holder in real estate when you're flipping stuff you want to buy it as cheap as possible fix it up and then flip it and sell it as for as high but when you're holding I guarantee you every single person on this Di has looked at a house almost pulled the trigger on investment property and then 10 years later said man I wish I'd have bought that piece cuz look how much it is now there's condos in the land that were sell selling for $30,000 10 years ago now they're selling for $1 180,000 so when you how many bu no no but when you think about the difference between the lease I understand what you're saying it's 47 years of leasing money but you got to understand this property is going to appreciate in value and like you said the county is's still going to be here in 48 years and you know 78 years and that dirt is going to keep going up exponentially so it's just we're going to get a return on I'm purely in favor of buying versus leasing you got to own it's just a matter of uh if this is the right spot which it seems like it is a a good spot if I may yes when we have looked as Carl said the county engaged him to help us look for property I have been looking on my own I have called people on my own we have to be in the county seat which means we need to be in Delan so we can't go outside of Delan to look so it's in Delan that we need to be and when I tell you we have looked I have looked at buildings I have looked at more buildings than even Janine knows I've looked at because I have looked on my own we my husband and I have rode around on weekends looking for property that may be big enough to even build before I realize how much building costs were I thought no way could it be 15 to 20 million to build a building oh yeah I found that out so this is a win-win for all of us most especially the citizens as you said we own it we will own it we will not be paying money I I don't want to say throwing it down the drain because people do live in apartments and they do lease and that's one I did it before also and you know for newly married people or small families that may be what they need to do but for a county to house an office space for the elections department or if you moved departments in there it's their that's a permanent home we haven't had a permanent home since elections moved out of moved out of the old elections building that is now a parking lot yes and Carl I think you would agree there's some Bank buildings down town to and a couple of them that have almost tripled in value in the last 10 years so even though we're paying the appraised value now this may very very well be worth 20 million 10 15 years from now so you can't really look at it purely as the lease because there's no saying that the leases will always be it might cost 60,000 a year to lease it 10 or 15 years from not Market rates that's why I'm a big proponent of buying over leasing so thanks guys thank you Don I agree that it's this is a a lot of money and so what you're seeing is the council being very cautious um I I support it and I'm just going to tell you a couple reasons why I support it one reason is because of a man that sits in the back named Ryan osowski I have a lot of faith in his ability to look at our finances and keep us safe and you and Ryan and other staff have planned for a long time how would we pay for this cuz you knew it was coming you've been looking I think you said for six years for a building so we've planned for it in a way that we can purchase this building without taking out more debt for future Generations to pay off we're also um instead of paying uh a rent and a lease we're actually collecting rent and then when you look at that picture there's a lot of rent to be to be collected there I it's a it's a good um it's a good argument and it's it's something we have to consider that well we're taking it off the the tax rols I suspect the rent that we will get will far exceed whatever the tax um uh income from those units are but when I look at them I see that one day County um another County division another County office is going to be moving into those places and so now we'll have it we don't have to build it Don just pointed out it's not going to get less expensive to build something or to rent something further on so we really are planning for the future and reducing uh the burden on future generations and and our young people I like the idea of of collecting uh rant um so you know I could go on but for those I just think it's I think you came across a the very best possible deal that we could find um in Delan at an at a great intersection um with a lot of parking and yeah you probably still have parking problems during uh voting time so uh Jake Johansson yes sir I I now have questions uh Lisa how how how do you intend on managing that parking problem everybody on their own um you going to put somebody out there during election time they kind of manage to Mayhem we do have poll deputies okay during early voting um you know it's that'll be able to we will do the best that we can I will tell you got it you know I've been out there myself but I will I also have to let you know that during elections there is a 150 foot no solicitation zone right we manage that 150 ft within it to keep the campaigning solicitation out outside the 150 ft people camp they Camp yes they have tents and you know they have cars and they have you know all the signs and it will happen and and you have to allow that per statute all right um Mr Kent mentioned and then he it came around but I want to I want to talk a little bit about it um uh if we stay in the current location we rent we could be there for 43 years can you manage in there for 43 years or will you grow out of it we we've outgrew it we've outgrown it right all right um and if I may I will tell you I went to Mr rectenwald when I first came into office in 2016 MH when we were in the historic courthouse and we had issues with the elevator and I told him I I mean I went in tears I said I cannot do another election like this so that's why we have been in a temporary home you know so we could find something but even then in 2016 it was still 2020 before we even found that space to move into it well things seem to be going in your direction so don't start shedding tears yet um uh Mr lent you somebody somebody said that um that that it are there renters in the rental spaces now there are currently some renters yes some but there's some Open Spaces correct yes uh and and you had mentioned in your uh in your speaking of Don that um that we're in short supply yet here we have open inventory you know I'm just a guy I don't understand so I preface that with um there's some maintenance at the center got it and as soon as that deferred maintenance is addressed which is already budgeted um I I fully anticipate that those spaces to be leased quickly got I got you all right um got it I I I think that's all I have um uh chairman can I put a motion or is that too early I'd like to make a motion to approve to get it on the second okay we have motion to approve the purchase by uh Jake Johansson and a second by David Santiago and David did you have nope I was gonna make the motion okay all right uh Troy Kent yes just one one quick comment for the council and for our supervisor I want you all to know that the supervisor you know she she talked to me about keeping her furniture and bringing it and you know she's she's serious about saving tax and and it's one thing that I said listen I'm real big on when you're getting a new space You Deserve new furniture you know you shouldn't junk up your new space with old stuff and I love that you shared with me that this is great stuff you've kept it in really good condition and I just wanted to say thank you for that councilman Robbins thank you chair I think everybody has has brought up uh some some great points Don uh thank you for that Lisa I I support uh this I was asking some some tough questions that way we can get it out on the table some of my some of my reservation uh though is is we're dealing with a inflation right now right um and and it leads me to believe that uh you know possibly after the election if the administration changes will that change um so if there is reservation that that's where I'm at you know I want to support this but it it's it's still a lot of money and uh we might be able to do better um you know so that's where I'm at thank you thank you U don't see anyone else who wanted to speak so uh car is Carissa over there can someone please call the [Laughter] rooll I can call the role Johanson I I could call the roll I have it right in front of me uh Jake Johansson hi Troy K yes Matt Reinhardt yes Danny Robbins yes you feeling pretty good I Am David Santiago uh here it comes Don Dempsey well no yes yes and you have a yes for me I feel like we're on uh what's that show you have seven yeses you're going to Hollywood congratulations you've worked hard on this thank you nobody B we'll get that for no they didn't Janine is there a flag in the yeah thank you okay that brings us to item three approval of performance Contracting agreement with Seaman industry for cost saving Energy Efficiency upgrades did we have the slides Carissa for this we did have slides there we go uh good evening uh Mr chair council members and staff Jim Corbett facility men management director uh it w it is with great uh pleasure that I bring to you uh this item for consideration um this is part of the Seaman energy performance uh Contracting uh previously approved by Council in September of 22 to conduct an investment grade audit um we went around to our largest facilities in the county to include tck all our cour houses Agricultural Center Beach safety and the Ocean Center um Seaman industry identified approximately 7 facility Improvement measures for us um and these had specific rate of returns and cost savings that were guaranteed with them um going into this we knew this may be a multiple phase multiple year contract so we we picked some of the best some of the widest to cover um the widest range of facilities in the county and what we came up with um were four facility Improvement measures that would save approximately 4.2 almost 4.3 million kilowatt hours annually um just to give you an idea how much of that uh that's 400 single family homes um I was looking over the investment grade audit today it's actually the amount if you turn every single light off in all those buildings for the entire year that's the amount of energy savings we're getting out of this so uh pretty substantial when you include all that so uh this is just uh outline where these facility Improvement measures are going uh the four major ones LED lighting high efficiency Transformers high efficiency controls to optimize our HVAC systems and then a HVAC air curtain at at the uh Courthouse next slide please and then as part of this there is a p Performance assurances Services Program this is part of the guarantee for the contract there is an annual cost associated with this um it's something we do annually though we get a annual report uh if we are not meeting the guarantees by Seamans they cut us a check at the end of the year so um it's something that we anticipate doing for at least four to 5 years U make sure that that is trending and then at the end of that you know we'll evaluate an annually uh to determine whether we need to continue on with that performance Assurance um and with that I'll stand by for questions thank you uh any council member have a question then uh David Santiago move to approve David Santiago makes a motion to approve as presented the second was by councilman Reinhardt uh and comments Jake Johansson I do have a quick question um uh this the Seaman contract if if they if they see something else at the end of the year that that pops up as a as major energy loss is that something they'll find or do they have to do the reinvestigation so the the measurement and verification is a constant process and they'll actually be reviewing it on a quarterly basis but we'll get an annual report so we we'll know relatively early on if something's a Miss if there's How about if there's an 18th project that pops up because oh let's say Lisa Lewis buys a building and we find out that it's leaking like a siiv we we can the contract allows us to do further investment grade audits on other facilities and that's that's our intention to to maybe look at other buildings in the future too beautiful thank you okay we have a uh a motion and a second to approve the expenditure of 4,498 194 all in favor say I I I any opposed and motion carry 7 to zero well done that brings us to item four resolution finding public purpose and approving issuance of educational facilities authority of Valia County Stetson project revenue bonds good afternoon Mr chair members of council Russ Brown Deputy County attorney item four is a resolution as the chair mentioned for finding public purpose and approving issuance of project revenue bonds by the educational facilities Authority for steton University in accordance with the requirements of the Revenue code the bonds do not constitute a debt liability or obligation of the county members of sson and bonds attorney are here if you have any questions for the project lastly um it's my mistake we noticed it as a public hearing it's actually not required it's just a presentation before Council for approval of the resolution additionally uh would request that when the motion is made that there is a in Clause four where is Clause four on the resolution there's a reference that it also requires panel's County to approve the bonds they're actually not doing any of the project at the law school in pelis County so that's not going to be a part of the requirement here so we'll uh take that out of the resolution prior to execution and with that I'll turn it over if you have any questions any questions from staff for staff David Santiago move to approve move to approve as requested motion to approve by uh councilman Santiago second by uh councilman Reinhardt any uh comments or further questions from Council all in favor say I I any opposed and item four has approved unanimously 7 to zero seven and item five is an amendment to a special exception for a non-exempt excavation located on State Road 44 and Clay Irvin I'm going to let you take it from there good afternoon clay director of growth and Resource Management um today is a request to amend an existing uh special exception for the non-exempt excavation uh this item has been continued several times since originally uh brought forward to the County Council um as of last week we had heard from the applicant who provided us additional and new information regarding the uh basically soil's condition and the geology of the site that impacts the analysis that was submitted to us originally and as part of that analysis it showed that there is no short or long-term draw down to the wetlands or the adjacent water bodies this was the primary reason that staff had identified a concern to the pdrc as to the applicant and made the recommendation of denial because that is one of your specific criteria contained in the zoning ordinance for these types of uses and to Grant the closeness of the excavation to Wetlands uh given that information we sent it to our independent third party which is part of our code requirements to review the data included in your packet I believe was sent the information where our uh expert uh confirmed the findings that were provided to us by the applicant and supported their findings so that being the case staff is indicating that it is in compliance with that requirement all of the other conditions that were identified the applicant has agreed to and I I will quickly kind of go over those so that that way um the public and everyone else can hear what's going to happen is that if you decide that this does meet the criteria established for the waiver of the 250 fot setback um and Grant the extension of and the amendment to the special exception uh that all conditions from the original special exception approved in 2019 would carry over with this one except for those that are in direct conflict with the proposed plan the applicant shall address existing code violations that continue or are not mitigated by the um uh site plan and special exception so in other words if there was something as a violation now but will be addressed by the special exception in the site plan that may fall off but anything other than that would be addressed through the code enforcement process including a updated Wetland delineation the deadline to complete the excavation would be modified and would be extended out to J June 4th 2028 that's reflecting a three-year extension from the current deadline for them to complete the final site plan shall demonstrate that from uh top of Bank of the de watering area will not be any closer than 75 ft from the Wetland limits which include the required 50 foot Upland or excuse me Wetland buffer and 25 foot setback and lastly uh the applicant and our consultant will work to modify the monitoring program to ensure that the dewatering and excavation will not have any impact on the adjoining Wetlands there is a current monitoring program in place our Consultants have identified some changes in regards to the location the applicant is not uh feeling that the removement of those monitoring Wells is appropriate but there may be other options we want to have the ability to work with them to come up with an alternative that will address their concerns and ensure that we are getting proper data and the way it's being monitored so um it's this did come to you originally with a recommendation of denial from both the staff and the planning and Land Development regulation commission we have received new information which addresses those concerns that were identified if the motion could address those five conditions that were identified then staff believes that they have addressed the majority of our issues if there's any questions for staff we'll be glad to answer them questions for staff one question Mr chair okay David Santiago um clay thanks for the update uh on the conditions um has the applicant agreed to those conditions on prior conversations before today so they're okay with them yes sir I'll let them speak because they they should come up and confirm that for the record that's all have for now thank you Mr chair okay uh Vice chair Kent thank you uh chairman clay so it's almost like a Matlock murder case here you know like here you are standing here at the 11th Hour you know there's some new information and staff was recommending Den but now there's new information and that's really what staff's biggest concern was what I didn't hear you say is because of this new information is Staff now recommending approval yet our paperwork says denial still yes sir what we're saying is that we are recommending approval subject to those five conditions that I just identified I just wanted you to say it on the record because I didn't I didn't hear that completely because and I'm really pleased that you sent this off to a third party because it doesn't pass to me at first glance it just doesn't pass the sniff test you know it's been delayed several times and now here it comes before us and wow look at this they have new information that that comes out um and and I I know the the uh applicants to be upstanding great great people in the community um but just the Optics of it were a little concerning so I'm pleased that we have on the public record that with those five conditions staff recommends approval and this went to a third party who looked at it and said yes this is accurate you're good to go thank you councilman Joe Hanson thank you sir um based on what council member Kent just said if if we had done this on schedule before this information came out and and voted no what what would they have been able to come back and and re reapply with the new info I I got like three questions for you Paulo so oh um well it's your your decision should have been based on the evidence presented so in in an open hearing yep um the applicant has the opportunity to present and was probably going to present the evidence that you know after the last meeting we got together and we reviewed it so that evidence that our third party consultant reviewed would have been presented to you at the last hearing that is that is the you know they would have to go through great extent to explain what the evidence and what those soils mean so this way we we had the opportunity to basically discuss it um review it with our third party consultant and and provide a you know a review and opinion on it got it um this is a quasi judicial hearing right yes so we need to we have any expart communication I have I've I've spoken uh to to the gentleman so um and and so my next question is usually during Quai judicial type hearings you often tell us that we can't hear additional data that went above and beyond the plrc that's not something that happens in this point no those uh those quas judicial hear hearings are appeals this is not an appeal you are the final decision maker the pdrc was a recommendation only there their decision is not final so you know they take their first shot but ultimately you are the final decision maker and you collect all of the evidence including the evidence that before the pdrc and any additional evidence that would would be presented before you perfect and and and one other for either CLA or you I understand there are current infractions if you will that are being addressed um uh are are those going to be Ade adequate resolved before we move forward or are they going to happen concurrently if we should approve if this is approved that's part of the conditions and so part of the analys showing how they are going to come into compliance address those impacts that were not permitted provide for what mitigation and that would be wrapped into the site plan so that that way we' be able to address all of those issues at one okay thank you very much that's all I have chairman thank you since this is a quasi judicial hearing does any other council member have any expar they need to declare anyone visited the site or talk to the applicant none none for me yes for me applicant and staff applicant and staff applicant and staff all right thank you and just uh clay a couple questions uh for you the um reading through what happened at the pdrc um have have they heard this new information no sir the plrc is has not seen this okay it seems like I recall uh the urban Forester and also someone from environmental staff on site saying that they witnessed a a draw down on the wetlands does it these calculations change that no sir what you're seeing is that we asked for the monitoring information to verify whether or not there had or had not been any draw down that information did not yield any kind of impacts whatsoever but we did Identify some concerns with the method of me uh for the monitoring uh that our third party identified and we that's the issue that we're asking to be addressed so that if um if y'all as part of one of the conditions y'all would include in the approval if that's what you choose to do okay uh David Santiago thank you Mr chair and thanks for staff all the work that they've done on this I mean you know Burl pits we need them right it it it feeds the uh the infrastructure for uh many things on the private and public sector so this is one that it currently exists it's been operating for years um and uh I'd rather have a successful one Burl pit than have multiple Burl pits so with that Mr chair I move to approve David Santiago makes a motion to approve I'm amend five conditions that's correct I would with the F conditions that staff has addressed and and the second was by was that Danny Robbins okay second by Danny Robbins we do have um uh members of the public that want to speak to this this is an open public hearing um let's do that now and we'll see if Council then has any more questions uh first we have Steve wonderly thank you good afternoon chairman Broward council members and staff I'm Steve wonderly I live in Daytona Beach and I'm also here representing the Sierra Club an awful lot of new information all of a sudden here um one question about this I'm not sure why the pdrc wouldn't need to review the new information and make a recommendation on this before you all decide however a lot of what I was going to originally stay so holds the current setback requirement for the site are already drastically lower than if the site were established today the if established today a setback of 250 ft would be required as it is the site's grandfathered into only requiring 150 ft of setback and the applicant had ask is asking to reduce that even further reducing it further creates a danger to Wetlands water and Wildlife current Wetland delineation for the site unless what part of the new information you received was a new Wetland delineation is over 5 years old it's obsolete and there have been unpermitted impacts the wetlands since then and the app applicant has not unless that's included that provided an updated Wetland delineation there have already been violations on the site where the excavation has impacted Wetland buffers wetlands and tree preservation areas so there are established minimums to protect our water and Wildlife to Simply wave those because a waiver was requested would be a mistake especially given that there have already been violations we don't have a current Wetland VI delineation and the restrictions that apply to the site are already far lower than today's standard so the center for Wetlands provides a means to calculate the appropriate upin buffer widths um a 300 foot buffer is necessary to protect just 50% of Wildlife and and a 350t buffer is will only protect 70% so I still have to ask that you deny this application for the amendment thank you John Baker John Baker DeBerry I'm going to ask that you deny this it's good that uh they finally meet the uh criteria for a waiver but the fact is they broke the rules when I worked for the city of Elo 30 years ago if we had a serious environmental infraction we would shut them down with a stop work order and they did not do any work until they went to the city council and paid a fine you don't get compliance by rewarding non-compliance thank you thank you uh Jake Johansson sir I I have a a few other questions but you can hit my five minute timer if you want uh clay well after you're done talking phis um I noticed that uh John's Water Management District kind of manages a little bit of of what we're doing here and we just increase the uh uh the minimums from from what they said it it it appeared to me that St John's River Water Management District doesn't analyze draw down of the water table and the impacts to adjacent Wetlands um why don't they or or alternatively why do we um I can address the issue in regards to why we do okay and um because we do have specific Wetland impact prohibitions in our comprehensive plan and our Land Development regulations so it's done to ensure protection that's why we have as you referenced um St John's has a 25 foot Upland buffer that's based on an average ours is set 50 feet because this is within the natural resource management area um and even though St John's may not directly require uh or address draw down they do follow up through the consumptive use permit process because they see this as a wholesale removal of water from the water table so they are aware of it it's just not in the Forefront of their analysis so it is a concern that's voiced by everyone uh the information we received uh made a very clear um analysis of what the draw down could be and in the data that was provided it was referenced that this is similar to the methodology used by the south Florida Water Management District in their analysis and so um our consultant uh concurred with the findings and agreed that as they saw there would be minimal draw down with uh again minimal correlation to the wetlands that's why we do have that monitoring to ensure that the modeling is actually ground truthed which which is going to lead me to my last comment SL question we had uh two people from the public come up and and talk a little bit about encroachment to to the wetlands this monitoring equipment that they're going to correct put in make better or otherwise put in a better place should mitigate most of the risk uh against Wetland and encroachment as far as water draw down draw down and whatnot well the first Speaker identified the existing violations there were there were intrusions into protected Wetlands that they they've acknowledged and they will be working with us to do the mitigation for and address that through the code enforcement process and yes the whole point behind the monitoring Wells the placement of where the rewatering either uh pipes or ditches um spreader swells all of those things that go back in there will be something that we'll be working with them to ensure that the areas that need the rewatering will get the rewatering and the uh net impact to the water table will be zero thank you very much that's all I have for now chairman May Nota who applicant has yet to speak okay would you like to to come and yes and speak and then just tell us your name and who you're with please thank you interrupt you uh my name is Jay Christie Wilson III I'm an attorney uh with offices at 601 North Fern Creek Avenue suet 220 in Orlando Florida and I have the pleasure of representing chemo investment and uh we we did and I I wanted to address the Matlock question um because we when uh when we heard concerns expressed by both staff and others we went to the source uh the model that is used to evaluate these impacts is called the ponds model and that model was developed uh by Dr siram uh who prefers to be called dvo who's well known throughout the State of Florida he developed the ponds model and we had him take a look at it and it turned out that the application of the ponds model by both Consultants was in error um and he explained that he did soil tests and came up with what the impact would be if any on the wetlands and Mr Siri Ram is here to today and you all have been provided with a PowerPoint and I would be happy if if you uh request it to bring Mr siram up so there's absolutely no concern uh he was not involved until the later stages of this that's why uh this new information came it was in response to questions and concerns by staff and I would I would briefly like to address also the um the concerns that have been referenced regarding incursions into the wet Wetland this was not a willful incursion it was an operator error we uh immediately went to the Water Management District um the Water Management District by the way has already issued us a permit uh to uh excavate within to within 50 feet of the wetlands we're not doing that we're uh because of the code that uh the Lua county has but they've also issued uh uh a permit for us to uh uh correct the incursion that occurred to the extent it goes into the wetlands we have monitored the uh the water table for the last four years and also included in the presentation that each of you have are the results of that monitoring and the monitoring shows there's absolutely no draw down um the what what was mentioned was the new uh code regulations if you're applying for a permit today uh they do require 250 ft which is a change but even under the new code Provisions an applicant can come in and demonstrate uh that there will be no draw down and and still get today what we're at what we're applying for uh to within 75 ft of the wetlands so this is not something that if if we were an applicant uh today coming in and asking for this exemption we wouldn't be entitled to we uh we would have to demonstrate that we're not either temporarily or permanently impacting the water table but um we believe we've demonstrated that we we are appreciative of staff for working with us and on behalf of my client I I consent to the conditions that staff has referenced if this is approved by this Council and I'd be happy to answer any questions or call Mr uh suram if you want to hear from him Council any questions uh David Santiago I was thank you Mr chair I was just going to say that um for me staff acknowledged um the the individual that you mentioned m siram is that right siram he likes to be calledo Mr dvo um staff acknowledged um his report when it was submitted so um and I think the comments that I received from staff was that uh um he's very well respected in the community and what he does and uh um I think he's a good expert that gave us the information that staff needed to uh correct the reports thank you Mr chair thank you anyone else for questions don't see any thank you very much for uh for coming any other uh comments Oh I thought you were getting ready to press your uh I'll just uh just a brief comment from me it um this was kind of an unusual uh hearing and that usually we told by staff you can't you can't consider new information now we have new information it's um it's not lost to me what Jake said well what if we had taken the vote um two meetings ago when it when it came U what I haven't heard and what really concerns me is um that the pdrc um was not in favor of this asked us to deny it and and staff members um in the field told us that they witnessed um draw down the monitoring equipment may say something different but I I can't just forget the eyes on the ground that saw this I think this is a um um one of the issues with uh the borrow pits and the reason why the council U last year maybe two years ago voted to increase the buffer zone um one of the speakers said and I read in the in the background information that it requires 250 ft to sustain just 50% of the wildlife population so then we have to ask ourselves are we up here to make decisions for the animals or for people and I think we have to do both I think the that we have to be and I'm I'm certainly not insinuating how no matter how anybody up here votes that they're not but we have to take stewardship of our County um seriously because it does affect um the quality of life of every person that lives here um the wildlife that we still have available the the um Open Spaces I just I think this this is indicative of some of the challenges that we have with our current uh development pattern so I'm I'm struggling I'm struggling with this one I I would I think we need to stick with the 250 uh feet buffer this this uh project has been uh grandfathered in with much less and I understand that but uh County attorney did you okay you withdrew all right any other clay just to clarify uh Ginger identified that what was identified by staff at the planning and Land Development regulation commission wasn't pertaining to the groundwater level it was pertaining to the intrusion into the wetlands that were ID identified for protection okay so it was not uh pertaining to the groundwater but the fact that as Mr Chris pointed out an operator had gone beyond where they were supposed to and incurred damage to Wetlands okay thank you okay Carissa would you call the role Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr dimsey yes Mr Brower I'll be a no um but the motion uh passes the exception passes uh 6 to one item six is an appeal of order of condemnation by the contractor licensing and construction appeal board and good good afternoon Council my name is Chris Ryan assistant County attorney uh as the chair mentioned this is an appeal from clca case 23-11-2019 fundamentally asked is was there competent substantial evidence presented to the clca or the contractor licensed and construction appeals board for them to rule in favor of an order of condemnation for the property located at 4105 South A1A in the neighborhood known as Wilbur by the Sea no new evidence may be considered at this hearing and you are limited to the record that was presented before the clca at the December 6 2023 hearing this has all been provided to you in your packet and we will be reviewing the presentation made at that hearing over a PowerPoint you additionally have the minutes and the transcript of that hearing competent substantial evidence is defined as that which a reasonable mind would accept to support a conclusion this may include photographs reports testimony or simar evidence that would support such a decision regard uh it takes the vote of four members to Grant an appeal if you think the evidence you see today was enough to support the clc's decision you should vote to deny the appeal if however you believe the evidence was insufficient to support the decision decision you have two choices you may Grant the appeal and and overturn the cca's decision or you can choose to modify your decision their decision as you seem appropriate such as the granting of additional time for repairs to be made prior to demolition staff however requests that an extension not be made at this time by virtue of this appeal the January 6 demolition date has already been extended over three months and hurricane season begins June 1st additionally chapter 5888 of our code uh allows for what's con what's condemned as 's pardon me what's known is repairs after condemnation essentially there's a 30-day grace period in which the applicant may present an application for a permit to repair a condemned building or structure in the words of the code if the Chief Building official reasonably believes the repairs are feasible and reasonably expected to resolve the conditions he may Grant the permits necessary to allow repair and demolition will be stayed applicant file her notes of appeal timely on December 15th 2023 at the time of her appeal the 30-day shot clock was Frozen as to that deadline after today should Council choose to deny her appeal she still has remaining 21 days to bring permit applications to our building department for evaluation and with council's approval I will call my witness if you come up share these with you please state your name for the record Carrie linger excuse me Carrie linger and what is your position with the county I'm the building and code Administration division director and chief building official and what is your employment history in the realm of building safety I've worked in the construction industry in one way or another for 45 years uh the first half of my career was as an electrician went through a partenership program I was an electrical contractor for a few years uh at that point I went to the building code enforcement side of the industry uh I spent a few years as an electrical inspector electrical plans examiner the city of Port Orange I was there for 13 years the last eight of those years I was the chief building official and I was hired here Mr County attorney County attorney or Chris either one can how how do we resolve this they were as always quasi judicial hearing you told them no new no new information new evence they're certainly allowed to speak yes and and you didn't disqualify correct them from that so if uh if you are going to choose to speak just raise your right hand and you can be sworn in and you can still speak you just can't enter new uh exactly thank you information no you don't okay I was going to say if the land owner chose to speak though she would have to okay sorry Chris you can continue raise your right hand if you intend to speak at the microphone do you swear that the testimony you are about to give in this matter is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God I do all right do you also swear that the testimony given so far has been accurate okay thank you all right so as chief bilding official what Authority do you have uh my authority my responsibility is to enforce the Florida building code and can you make determinations as to safety issues uh not only can I I am required to that is part of my job and where does that Authority come from that Authority comes from the Florida buildings code and Florida statute 553 are you now have you or have you ever been involved in a building or trades board in the state I have uh I served two years in the early 90s on the city of Port Orange Building Trades board I uh I was appointed by governor Scott in 2017 to the building code administrators and inspectors board and served on that state board for a little over four years and I'm currently on the board of directors for the Building Association of Florida have you been to 4105 South Atlantic Avenue in the neighborhood known as Wilbur by the sea I have many times all right so we're going to go over the slideshow presented real quick at the clca all right and this is car if you go ahead and describe what you see in these photos so this is just kind of a general area map um the the red outline is the actual address of the property these are notice determinations um by me and that were sent to the property owner and they were posted on site as well and this it's an affidavit by Paul Trader one of our inspectors he posted the notice of determination on site that's the photo of the posting on on the property we uh return receipt and it appears that Miss linga uh did sign that this is a notice of public hearing and this is the notice of public hearing the affidavit that it was posted on site and same thing there's the photo of the notice of public hearing and the mailing that uh was sent to the property owner so this is uh this starts with the the the storms in October and November of 2022 uh uh Ian and Nicole this is a report from no M 11th we were at the property uh we recognized that there was structural damage uh was we identified the property is destroyed and that it was unsafe structure was not habitable um half of the house is missing basically after the storms uh Power needs to remain off and and permits be required these are photos from that day and what do you see in them the back half of this home has was basically U um the erosion caused it to collapse onto the beach along with the swimming pool these are photos from September 8th of 2023 and you'll see actually a better better photo from the beach um no change since the prior since the prior November these photos same thing same same photo November 9th 2023 uh a year after the storm and uh no change and would you say that these pictures were an accurate depiction of the property on about honor about December 6 2023 the date of the clca hearing yes was there any evidence presented by the applicant that would have changed your opinion if so what there was not was there any evidence presented by the applicant at all not evident no can you describe any structural issues you witnessed in your previous visits and were they visible in those photographs they were I think the photos tell the story uh do you believe they POS a life safety issue to any occupants or passers by I do were you directed to give the owners of 4105 South A1A time to apply for permits for demolition or construction before taking this property before the clca we were our Direction after the storms in in November of 2022 was to uh take our time we knew they were going to have to deal with the insurance companies and and those types of things by the time we got to August September of 23 we began to receive complaints from the neighbors uh I believe Mr Reinhardt received a complaint I communicated with him about that back at that time uh so after a year we felt like we needed to go ahead and take action and uh get these properties cleaned up and did the property owner apply for any such permits prior to the December 6th hearing no was there a post Hurricane Safety report made in November of 20222 and if so what did it say uh there was and it was on the on the slideshow there we we talked about that now when a property is condemned that doesn't mean that demolition is guaranteed does it not necessarily if the property owner feels they can make repairs or or they want to demolish it themselves uh we we will work with them to see that that happens and should Council deny their appeal today they would still have 21 days to do so would they not correct was the applicant present at the hearing yes she was was she accompanied by the council who represents her if the appeal to I believe so what's your represent by anyone else Andrew Hall from Hall construction spoke on their behalf what testimony did he give he uh indicated that uh they were working with the property owner to apply for permits for Demolition and that they were going to look at that's not type of hearing ma'am this is a a quaza Judicial appeal please you'll you'll have an opportunity to speak please they were also going to see if the prop if the remainder piece of the property could be salvaged at any in any way uh the other thing he indicated to us with they were going to get the debris removed off the beach uh they were going to do that pretty quickly uh when discussing a resolution of condemnation did they object to it not to my knowledge did your contractor said that he had no problem with the timeline presented at the clca for a July pardon me for a January 6 demolition he said he had no problem with that at all I have no more questions okay before we go any further this is a quasi judicial hearing I'm going to ask if anyone has any expar that they need to declare I do I spoke with the uh the person of all the owner of the property as well as building official okay chairman I do not just staff staff upate right okay uh I have not either although I have seen the property it was long before I knew this was coming up it was look surveying the damage on the beach um I've seen the property many times including yester okay uh Mr Robbins any exp parte no okay okay uh does anyone have any questions for staff so far before I call the applicant okay would you like to come and yesam yes you may I want to raise it possible it's okay you um Mr linger can you introduce yourself sorrya Macy I'm appearing on behalf of um Mrs N linia okay thank you you the homeowner um yes uh do you recall having a telephone conversation with Mrs levinia and also with Matt tresa Fox News wherein you told both Mrs linia and Max Matt treesa that she could have that her property was not in jeopardy and she could have all the time that she needed to make repairs I I I recall speaking to the property owner U at least once maybe twice I don't recall speaking to a news reporter about it uh I told her that we were giving them time just as I explained to council that our Direction after those storms was to to give the property owners time to to work through the process and I did tell her that uh uh as long as that she was making forward progress either to demolish or rebuild and you're aware that she intended to repair the property correct she indicated she was going to try yeah and you um you're aware that the contractor that she initially had submitted a substantial damage report in which your office said that the damage was not in excess of the substantial damage report I don't recall it that way no what do you recall I believe there was something submitted U but it it wasn't complete and it was submitted by a general contractor I correct I believe so I and your office stated that the damage was not in excess of substantial damage and could be repaired isn't that correct I don't know I didn't make that statement so if anybody in my staff did I can't answer for that okay so you're not aware that your staff did that is that correct apparently not no okay and um you're aware that um at each stage I had contact sent you emails that about the general contractor that was hired and then also about the engineer that she hired I'm sorry what what was the question um I had been sending you before you decided to move forward with the condemnation I had been sending you information about the general contractor that was hired and also about the engineer that was hired isn't that correct I believe so yeah we had a couple of emails back and forth yes and although she was making progress you decided to move forward with the condemnation correct progress would have been applying for a building permit either for demolition or for repairs that would have been progress and we have not seen that to date well are you aware that um Miss linia was told that she hired a contract contractor out of boa rone and they said they applied for a temporary permit and they were denied by your office no application was received as of as of today so if they say that they applied and were denied that's not true that's not true okay are you aware that the the photos that you just showed is not indicative of what the property looks like now is it there not uh there was some clean up on the beach yeah are you aware that M Mrs linia has spent uh well into $50,000 I would have repairs to her home I have no idea how much money she spent okay do you have any idea how much it would cost to take the debris off the beach no and uh you don't have no idea what demolition cost or debris no and Miss L had been told repeatedly including with the contractor who appeared at the hearing that a demolition permit was required to remove the debris from the beach but that turned out to be false when it was actually done that's not what was stated uh they were talking about app apping for a demolition permit to remove the house we received a demolition permit application and we told them it wasn't necessary if all they were doing was removing the debris on the beach a a building permit was not required so so that permit application was canceled yes and that's why the demolition permit was submitted at no time did Miss linia ever agree to demolish her house she agreed aged to clean up the beach because she was told because of the request from your office and that demolition cost a substantial amount of money that she spent so far $50,000 okay um Mr chair can I pause for a second just point of point of order um a question to staff um since this is an appeal and I understand the appeals process I think it was explained about no new testimony there's a lot that's being given to us here as arbitrators of this issue how are we able going to keep up with all of that that may or may not be new testimony if if it's going this way and I'll let you answer maybe Mr chair we should have an objection period during that part like this was this is new testimony I'm just throwing out because there's a lot that was thrown out there I was actually going to say at the very end that so far from what I've heard everything was either after the facts or new testimony new evidence that was not presented the clca so so far all of this back and forth will have to be disregarded by the council thank you and that's because of procedurally that we're required to only hear new excuse me uh previous uh testimoni or evidence correct exactly only only something that was discussed before the clca can be um part of this testimony today and I just want to make sure that that's clear because we're not trying to take about anybody's rights to speak but procedurally we are required to do it this way correct exactly yes sir thank you councilman Robbins thank you chair um if we can speak to her real quick do you have any information that we can uh legally use do I have information that you could use legally used to take into consideration well first of all the standard competent substantial evidence is not the standard here today our appeal was based on a denial due process we were never able to cross-examine Mr lener at the original hearing and we were never able to see his to this day he was presented evidence that we never seen I understand ma'am a simple yes or no question would would be more than sufficient is there any usable information uh uh that we can use here today that is not new absolutely I mean he just was allowed to testify and and I should be allowed to cross-examine him on his we're we're following the rules so so please respect that um and and I'd just like to hear the the the information that we're allowed to hear so uh I'm I'm looking forward to it thank you I have a I have a question for the for for the board and the county assistant County attorney um if no new EV evidence is to be presented why was Mr losinger's testimony reiterated today when it was already in the transcript so it was able to be heard before the board right now well the board had reviewed the transcript then it was a reiteration okay so um you told me I was allowed to cross-examine him today yeah as to the evidence that was on the record okay well that's what I'm ask that's what I'm questioning him on and that's what I'd like to question him on can you I'm going to ask that you keep order in in the room you really don't help your case by U speaking from the back of the room so let's handle this uh in a organized fashion um and Chris for for now on I think we're this is not a criticism I think we're used to uh Paulo jumps up and down out of his chair all the time and quasi judicial hearings and says you know unhear that fair enough so please just uh would like I'll keep I'll do that as well okay thank Youk and if I could just to say I you know the code provision that we're under is 58- 89 and it requires that the appeal of any decision of the clca shall be based on evidence made on the record before it so as I understand uh staff's position on this is that as long as any questions or cross-examination consistent with the evidence that was presented to the clca it can be explored today exactly okay can I continue yes thank um I don't know if I misheard this earlier but did Mr lender testify that Mr Reinhard made a complaint to him about the property no I had mentioned that that um councilman Reinhardt had contacted me is that yet again this is something that was not presented in front of the clca going be explored this time take hand okay okay well then why was it if it wasn't allowed to be present it before then I moved to strike all of Mr losinger's testimony today if he was he he was allowed to testify as to evidence testified previously including well was that I I should ask was that an argument or objection you made at the clca hearing we did we were not he was never called to testify the it the way it appeared at the hearing was that the the uh board members were speaking to each other at no time was it announced that they were calling a witness so to us it looked like the board members were speaking to each other when there were saying oh we have this package is this in our package and then it was banter back and forth we were never aware um that they never said we're calling Mr linger as a witness the county and and it turned out to be the County's only witness so how could we cross-examine we we're Deni due process Mr Ryan do you have a response I do yes um the M Mr losinger actually gave the entire presentation it was exactly what we saw tonight he stood up there said all these same things and which again as m Miss Massie mentioned I'm reiterating so this is literally the same exact evidence he gave so he gave us a summary yes this evening Mr chairman can I just ask a quick question uh you and then Don but go ahead yeah just real real quick the in the transcript the county official is that Carrie that is Carri yes thank you very much Don did you have a question at this yeah I have a question overall and I I I must say I must agree with her I think we've kind of opened the door you know once you open the door that that lets stuff in as far as to process and litigation and trial procedure but more of an overview we just passed I don't understand why we're here at this point we just we goty if I could just to make sure I understand what you're saying what what door are you referring to when they when the County Attorney asked Carrie all the questions on Direct I think it's it's fair gam it's almost like trying something by consent even if it's not pled you bring it up during your case it's if it's not objected to or whatever then it's Tried by consent and you open the door nothing all that that was restated was consistent with the record below unless the property owner can say otherwise but there's and you know just just to be clear we're here in a quasi judicial setting right so the Rules of Evidence Appel procedure they apply to courts don't apply here it's a little more casual because what the issues we're dealing with okay more from 30,000 ft up we just passed transform 386 we just kicked in $200 million back in December was it to help people like this lady and we've shut her down a month prior to us allocating $200 million to help people like her whose homes were devastated by Ian so I would like if if it's possible to table this continue this and have direct staff to see if this lady is uh available to the benefits of transform 386 I mean here it's I think it's Undisputed her house was destroyed by Ian we just kicked in a total of $328 million allocated it all because of the hurricane Ian relief we're trying to help everybody else in the county and we're going to shut her down when she's a victim of hurricane Ian just like these other people so I would like to continue this and direct staff to see if she's available to the benefits of transform 386 see where that goes and then resume these proceedings and for the record she is an 85-year-old disabled Widow all right Chris do you this may be new evidence I don't know you'll have to tell me do you know if she has applied to transform 386 that would be new evidence and no I do not know okay which is why I wanted on budsman to help little old ladies like her work their way through the system yeah I I I agree this we have asked the county for assistance from the very beginning and been given none Mr chairman okay stand or and information we've been given none okay uh councilman Johansson yes sir I have plenty of comments about the 386 and other programs but I doesn't sound like it's part of what we're doing now other than coming up with the reason to postpone so let's continue on and postpone is what happens so be it but I don't I don't want to discuss Mr chairman just love a second to finish the sentence ma'am I would like to proceed in accordance with our procedures for a quasa Judicial and then come to the conclusion thank you okay don't this is a very sensitive issue everybody up here is aware of that we've got a 85 year-old woman at the back the room that's waiting to hear we've got evidenced way um we just we need to do it in an orderly way it doesn't mean that we we're ignoring her conditions Mr uh Dempsey can make a motion to um postpone it um and we'll see what the council does with that but um before before you continue uh George recton wall did you have a I would like to wait until you go through the procedure then I'll try to give some information uh regarding the 386 where that stands thank you thank you did you want to ask something before we going I do thank you Mr chair um Don your suggestion you know opened my eyes but not specific to the procedure here right um we have to figure out how we deal with that and maybe a motion handles that but I guess preemptively um to staff procedurally would a temporary postponement is that something that can apply here we could continue to date certain yes okay um uh I moved to temporarily postpone this hearing for a period of two months to get more information to the council and give the applicant time to apply would you like to specify to this second meeting in June perfect second meeting in June can we amend that to direct staff to assist her in seeing if she's eligible for any benefits from transform 386 um I think staff will do that organically anyway but I have can I weigh in now being that you've done yes that we still have more people to to talk but yes go ahead if the timing is important here because of the fact that uh we're going into hurricane season and that is in fact the danger that uh has been identified by the staff so we have the issue of the of keeping the beach clean and we also have the issue of the neighbors nearby and a pile of rubble that's in the middle so that is why uh we are here today uh we have been working with this person for months uh even if dependent on the outcome today they would still have time to remedy the situation I will try to make sure of course this is a different twist uh and I don't have the people right here but I will try to get the people here as far as the 386 and they can talk to uh this person before they leave uh but I I will caution the most of the 386 is to go into kind of the cdb areas of the county that's where the rules I don't have all the HUD rules in front of me uh but basically uh it was meant for that now she may qualify based on uh maybe being uh having a lot of assets but maybe not have much income so we'll we'll we can look at that but I'm just saying that blanket statement about the 386 yeah for the correct uh uh economic area the that would be correct and I don't again know the specifics but I don't believe that's a cdgb area uh and we'll provide the see sure if I may because I made the motion and that's why I include I did not include Direction on 386 Because by the nature of us speaking about it I know staff is going to try to figure it out right um to see if she does qualify she should engage that and it's 386 is not going to be the Silver Bullet anyway because that's limited on the amount of money even if she does qualify um so um I'll leave the motion as as this sits there I I hope the applicant can and maybe the applicant can address this can continue to at least do the demo side of things but or figure out something to make it safer may I respond um before yes you may before you do who made the second to okay um go ahead and respond please um as to the safety issue um the beach area has been cleaned up and the house has been chored up closed in as it stands today and as sub stantial cost probably about $50,000 Miss linia spent to do that okay Mr chairman are we outside of quasa judicial at this point pardon me we're we're still in quasa judicial yes sir that's correct Mr joh again this is more information that cannot be used for the purpos decision can we can we vote somehow to stop the Quasi judicial and then have this conversation everybody wants to have the motion is to table to table it for until the second meeting in June and it's a second that is the motion on the floor with a second um it it uh what we were asked to do was to either uphold the appeal deny the appeal we could uphold uh the um order of condemnation with conditions giving her more time uh 2 months or whatever it is but it's I know you still want to respond but is this is this new evidence for us to ask uh Mr linger if anyone has inspected that and is it any more safe today on the because that that's what we have to weigh we we want to be compassionate to the woman but we also have Public Safety to keep in mind and is it dangerous to everybody on the beach what I saw um leaves a question unfortunately chair for purposes of an appeal such as this were limited to that time at which the appeal okay then uh Jake I don't have an answer to your question can we can we back out of this and just go into uh you know attorneys you're going to have to give us some direction Mr chairman I think the answer is the the call on the question that's before us if that passes then it's postponed and we're done until the second meeting in June that's the that's that's the if it passes right and I I think staff or the proper owner can respond to questions you have outside of that but right now the difficulty is you're being we have motion on the floor so all right be before I call for a vote we have someone from the public that wants to speak and you I think you still had something you wanted to say go ahead um well we're here on the denial of due process based on what happened at the last hearing uh my name is Lisa Macy and I'm here representing Mrs Nina levinia an 85-year-old disabled Widow and great grandmother to six she resides at 4105 South Atlantic Avenue this was her home for almost 40 years this was not a second home and Mr chair just I you have a motion on the floor to continue it so I think Council needs to act on that and the prop owner can say whether she agrees or disagrees because if that passes you're going to be having the same discussion two months from now okay okay uh then on behalf of Miss linia Nathan skip SC Scott are you in tell tell us where you're from so we know what yes um good evening Mr chair Commissioners Nathan scop um former uh Florida Public Service commissioner attorney uh have a JD MBA and engineering degree um I'm just a concerned citizen uh just having watched this proceeding um Mr chairman I I didn't see him in the I I felt out to speaking he is he's it's from the public wanting to speak in qual judicial is this something that was done at to the motion Mr chair there's a mo on the floor public should be heard I previously told Mr scop that any new information he has cannot be presented here today but staff would be glad to speak with him after the year and and was he at the uh clca he was not no sir so I think at this point you know if he wants to speak on the motion he can speak on the motion that's before the council otherwise we're proceeding with a hearing got it yeah thank you Mr chair I think you reset my time again um I'm trying not to testify I'm just speaking as to the motion holistically I think emotions have run high in this I'm just observer in the room I think commissioner uh Dempsey has it correct um that that should just holistically take a step back and and look at this again what you have here holistically is an elderly homeowner who's experienced a catastrophic loss of their Homestead Property they're trying to comply uh they've run into some hurdles uh pulling a permit hired an engineer who's holding them high hostage allegedly um and um you saw some very dramatic photos I think those photos just holistically are not indicative the current condition there has been some cleanup um as an engineer myself who's built nuclear submarines the batteries for space station and airplanes for Bo reactor um I do have some structural experience uh Mr chairman I think he's going outside the realm of the things I'm speaking to the motion I support the motion I haven't heard any comments that are relevant to the motion that with all due respect nuclear nuclear submarine building has nothing with this Mr chair Mr chair as a lifelong Republican I find this board to be hostile to someone that's never appeared before you before that's appearing good faith well Mr chair let me say I I don't understand where the the term hostile is coming from you have a motion to continue to Grant the property additional two months that's not hostile the property owner has agreed to the continuance so unless you have any comments that are relevant to the motion continue I suggest you sit down wow that that that is just reprehensible that a member of the Florida bar would be spoken to like that I mean there should be some civility here I'm a citizen in good faith took time to come to this meeting speaking to the motion and and I just think that's blatantly disrespectful you have not addressed the motion for continuance in one word that you have said I have I said I supported thetion and before I was rudely interrupted by a couple panel members Mr boor and the attorney I can't get a word in edgewise it's it's very frustrating so I'm trying to come in good faith I commend what commissioner Dempsey said and and God bless you sir but um again so your comment is to support the the motion support the motion but I'm trying to tell you the reason why sir um some of the things that you saw the conditions have changed emotions are high and and and not trying to get into new evidence I'm just trying to say that I think you have some good people that are intent of working with the county in good faith and they just need time and I think that's where commissioner Dempsey's suggestion here is is seconded by I believe commissioner Santiago is best practice and I just encourage you all to try and work together uh collectively and have the commission provide some policy direction to staff I think it can all be worked out okay and know you have an elderly senior citizen I think that's the biggest concern because I'm disappointed because I mean as as um watching this today is fuia County used to be all about senior citizens and homeowners thank you thank you okay nobody I don't see anybody else that with a uh uh comment so let's call the vote and see where we are the the motion on the floor is to um table this until the second meeting of June postpone it to the second meeting of June motion was made by David Santiago and second by Matt Reinhard Chris would you call the role Mr Johansson yes Mr Kent yes Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Brower yes so the um the motion passes unanimously it be postponed for two months and uh we'll take it up again then thank you could I have the date of that meeting what is second meeting in June does anybody have that it will be June 18th June 18th that would be a 4 pm meeting all right thank you and is there anyone in particular who we should contact on the St okay staff is already doing that that's my okay should contact you yes thank you okay it is 6:27 why don't we take a break until uh 7 o' and we'll come back and wrap up good you huh yeah he's the one that actually brought it up so I'll give e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e [Music] w oh [Music] oh [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] I love love [Music] check check one check one [Music] no welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 10 minutes [Music] youy [Music] a [Music] [Music] he [Music] up [Music] w [Music] w [Music] he [Music] w [Music] [Music] [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 5 minutes [Music] [Music] a [Music] f [Music] you did hire somebody [Music] enough a I'm doing on my [Music] chest every night B and then put it on I don't care where you [Music] well I got some right under my eye one time [Music] bir [Music] yeah your mother used to make Mick yeah [Music] yeah Mom would rub it on my chest and then just let me die I've only got a cold [Music] welcome to the vucha County council meeting the meeting will begin in 2 [Music] [Music] minutes I always have to look for the [Music] camera okay 60 seconds we doing seven qu yes [Music] okay it's 7:00 we will continue um we're on item seven uh an ordinance amending the zoning ordinance to establish a change of business certificate and uh clay Irvin would you take take us into this yes sir clay director of growth and Resource Management uh the County Council identified a need to make things more efficient and effective for business owners so they eliminated the business tax receipt uh part of that process we identified a need to come back with an alternative so there could be a method to clear zoning issues to clear building code and fire code and impact fee issues uh this is that alternative it is um a requirement for people establishing a new business or expanding a business um no fee will be charged so it'll be basically uh staff conducting the work uh and really again it's just verifying if you're establishing a new business that you're in compliance with the zoning that you meet the floor to fire prevention code the floor to building code and everything is copesthetic and it's a one-time situation so if you come in establish your business now and 10 stay there for 10 years you will only see us at that first Point um again it's just a followup on what was uh identified with the elimination of the business tax receipt there's any questions I'll be glad to answer them questions from Council yep David Santiago so no fee to uh the applicant correct correct thank you Mr chair motion to approve second motion to approve by David Santiago the second comes from Vice chair Troy Kent any other questions Jake Johansson thank you uh yeah Clay how how are we going to how are how are we going to let me know that I have to send you in a certificate again it would be uh through the typical due diligence requests we have it available on our website we'll identify it we'll start educating uh again send out indication information to Realtors and uh Property Owners Chambers of Commerce and whatnot yes sir Chambers are a good start um and it's one time so we don't have to do it okay yep that's all I have thank you chairman okay any other comments or debate motion on the floor is to uh approve uh the ordinance amending the zoning ordinance to establish a change of business certificate all in favor say I I any opposed motion carries 7 to zero that brings us to item eight uh adoption hearing for Ordinance 2024-25 one waiting period and records check for purchase of firearms Chris good evening commission pardon me kind of councel at the March 19th 20124 meeting uh staff brought forth a draft of an ordinance repealing chapter 78-1 waiting period and records check for purchase of firearms of the fuchia county code of ordinances for discussion and Direction County Council voted to proceed with such an ordinance section 78 -1 pertains to sale and delivery of handguns any of which transaction is conducted on property to which the public has a right to access and requires a 3-day waiting period between sale and delivery as well as a criminal background check now this does not impact the background check requirements imposed on licensed retailers under federal and state statutes additionally I'd briefly like to address the recently finalized Federal rulemaking developments on April 11th the federal government specifically the doj and the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco firearms and explo explosives finalize ruem to close what is called The Gun Show loophole now the new regulation will become effective 30 days after being published in the Federal Register this is the final part of the 2022 safer communities act this closure is both more inclusive and more exclusive than what the what the county currently contemplates the county is seeking to allow all sales on property to which the general public has access by persons who are not licensed by a federal state government as Firearms retailers without requiring the current currently mandated 3-day waiting period and background check the federal rulemaking however seeks to require background checks and licenses essentially for anyone who chooses to sell firearms predominantly for profits this includes online in by mail at flea markets and at gun shows exemptions are provided for people choosing to purchase guns for hobby collecting study or for hunting or target shooting so in recap what the county is seeking to do today is to remove the requirement for a background check and three-day waiting period on places within the county accessible to the general public applicable only to sellers not licensed by the state or federal government for retail sale of handguns thank you thank you uh for questions councilman Danny Robbins I have none I was going to make motion to uh accept uh uh the repeal of this uh ordinance 78-1 motion to approve the ordinance uh by councilman to remove the appeal yes to by Danny Robbins was there a second I'll second it second by David Santiago questions for staff debate we do have members of the public who want to speak uh Dana mcol you were first Mr chair and councel uh to say that I am disappointed is a real big understatement at this because in essence what this council is going to be saying is that you know better than Federal authorities and then experts and although you might fancy guns I don't consider anyone sitting up here an actual expert at least I've not heard testimony to that to the contrary this loophole is being closed for a reason the experts have spoken and I don't want our Council up here basically be saying that you are pushing through something that makes it easier for someone with some type of instability to purchase a gun 3-day waiting period is not infringing on anyone's rights to own a gun what is it doing is allowing the most vulnerable people that would be allowed through the back door to purchase a gun for unstable reasons to cool off here 30 days guys if you go through with this vote in the affirmative to repeal this you're telling the public out here that you know better than what is now going to be mandated this loophole is being closed for a reason this is also encouraging people to hurry up and run out and go get a gun you know the argument has been made that if a woman feels threatened and she needs to go purchase a gun that this would take away her right to go buy a gun in a domestic violence situation and I would profer back to you this if a woman is going out and buying a gun at the turn of a coin like this the odds of this gun being turned around on used used on her very high without proper training this doesn't the argument doesn't hold water not infringing on anyone's rights here um I don't want people to use this as a political pedestal this is about protecting this is about public SA safety and when pulled I will tell you this I am a second amendment proponent however I believe that we need safety in place here and when pulled I've asked some conservative male and female call themselves Republicans regarding this waiting period and you know what this was the most said thing to me this is political suicide if I vote contrary to what is being presented because it's deemed as a partisan issue and it's not this is about our people this is about the safety of our people of our most vulnerable I don't know anyone that can't delay gratification other than two-year-olds and people that don't have good reasoning skills at the moment not infringing upon a right and I'm asking you to follow the letter of the federal law because there's a good reason a bipartisan reason a bipartisan committee closed this loophole you can be a fan of the gun while still still protecting our public that's what I'm asking you to do Tim Hoover Tim Hoover I live in samula in quiet place in the country um 25 years I was a public servant work for the fire department and we've seen all these uh shootings and and disabled people or dis there just crazy lot of crazy people out there and stuff so you you make it easier for someone who's unstable to go and purchase a gun because there's no really no background checks no FBI fingerprints or anything I'm a a concealed the weapons permit uh enjoy the training that we had my wife and daughter went through it and I recommend it to everybody who owns a gun or if you don't carry it conceals weapons permit uh you get the training you get the safety of it but just to go in there and buy a gun and walk out with it and not really even how to load it how to handle it and leave it around for some small kid to get it I think the three-day waiting period is ideal and I also think that they should be some kind of training to even purchase the gun thank you John Nicholson johnnson Tony beach side um I was offered uh about a dozen guns when I was a kid my uncle had passed away and his children didn't want the guns and I was offered it and uh I chose not to um a friend of mine uh my mother's best friend uh got an argument with his wife which happens but he was a bit unstable so he left the house went to a gun store bought his gun came home and killed his wife and his mother-in-law this is a carpenter that stuck in my mind whenever this thing pops up there are arguments you may sit there and say well yeah not everybody does this but it happens enough time to Warrant looking at it the loophole needed to be closed 10 20 years ago it should never have been allowed to go on as long as it did this closes it and you're going to open it back up I'm asking you to be very cautious about what you do think why they did what they did what existed guns are going to be with us hopefully forever all right um I have no problem with uh guns I have no problem with who owns guns but there are instances in which it can be abused don't add to it thank you thank you and that's all we had from the public so I'll close the public hearing on this uh councilman Johansson sir as I understand it um anybody can go to any friend and purchase a weapon without any waiting period um is that correct that is correct yes um Chris how how often do do we here in Valia County have um gun shows I believe it's nine a year nine a year I believe so yes either seven or nine I think it's gone back and forth based on Co and a couple other things sure so nine times a year I can decide to act irresponsibly and go by a gun at a at a gun show and do something about it but the other 350 345 days a year I can go to any friend relative or anybody private citizen and buy a weapon from them in a private property yes private property so the only the only difference is the public property correct um Can can gun shops [Music] hold is there any way for a gun shop to somehow hold a some some type of event at a private property where Firearms are sold as long as they're not sold by them the the actual gun shop owner that might implicate their license I'm not sure exactly what you're asking I'm I'm just wondering if if a bunch of people can get together our private residence and and buy and sell guns to each other that should be okay I believe so based on way and and if you're invited you can you can go um I I'm just trying to I'm trying to figure out what why being in the public is different than being in the private as far as as far as the the the argument that um unstable people can buy weapons I think they have access to weapons um I think they have friends that have weapons probably probably um and and as far as other people that thinking they need a weapon uh if those people are not mentally unstable uh they usually wait the 3 days and and get the weapon anyhow and they have it 3 days they're not acting um um in a fit of rage so uh I I think you know the fit of rage Saturday hey look there's a gun show is probably a little few and far in between for me speculatively so um uh that that's kind of my thought process on this um I I appreciate the time chairman thank you councilman Santiago sure I have a question for you what when when you opened and explained I think you you went into the recent Federal changes that were made yes sir can you go back and what I thought I heard you say about certain exemptions I'll actually go one further um I'll read the the brief directly from the White House as to how this applies uh prevents people from falsely claiming that guns are part of a personal collection in an attempt to evade the law the statute explicitly states that making occasional sales of farm from a Personal Collection or liquidating collection does not require a firearm Federal a federal firearms license or background checks however people have evaded the background check requirement by falsely claiming they are selling their Personal Collection the final rule makes clear that a personal collection of firearms is limited to collections acquired for a specific reason like study comparison exhibition or for a hobby like hunting or sport shooting a Bonafide Personal Collection is not the same as a business inventory so the idea again was they were trying to to require people who are selling guns primarily for profit to have a license whereas individuals like selling to someone for hobby would still be exempts from this requirements so I want to repeat what I think I heard okay I'll do my best to clarify yes so if I B bu someone could buy a bunch of guns and say that this is a hobby I bought all these guns 10 20 guns whatever it might be MH and if I want to go to the fairgrounds to participate in the next gun show and I I'm now selling my hobby guns that loophole exists to circumvent whatever the feds just did I can't speak as to how regulation will uh will come down as far as that goes but I I believe it's possible yes possible okay I don't want to nail you that so it's possible this there's still going to be um gaps in this what what they just passed in the White House most likely yes sounds like it okay thank you councilman Robbins I was just going to say sum it up it it does nothing it's like I identify as this I identify as that guns can identify as wholesale uh and not retail or for profit not for profit this has more holes in it than swiss cheese I wouldn't even bring this up if I was the Federal Government it's a joke um I stand by my motion thank you any other comment or questions if not I will um ask for uh the vote the vote uh the motion on the floor is to um adopt the ordinance which removes the 3-day weight and background check um all in favor say I I I any opposed and the ordinance is adopted seven to zero item nine ordinance 2024 -7 truck parking good evening clay irvan director of growth and resource manager management County Council identified a desire to uh change our parking standards to allow for within the agriculturally zoned properties the ability for the owner of that unit or the occupant to be able to park larger Vehicles such as semis work Vehicles those types of things and uh not face some of the restrictions that we currently have uh based on the uh direction that staff received we we've Mo modified the ordinance and there's basically four critical things um it has to be utilized by person who inhabits the home uh it cannot be located in the front of the house or within the front yard setback and property owners are limited to a maximum of two commercial vehicles and the minimum parcel size must be 2.5 acres uh went forward to your pdrc coming to you from a recommendation of approval from both Council or from staff and the plrc there's any questions for staff we'll be glad to answer them Council any questions I got one uh councilman Robin thank you chairman uh clay thank you for the for the due diligence we did on this um couple questions uh does this uh Target uh or include the RR rural residential uh that has a 1 acre Min minimum yes sir a one acre minimum well it's got it allows it within the RR zoning but you would still have to meet the 2.5 acre requirement okay um Does it include non-conforming lots of any size no sir it would have to be 2.5 acres um does this protect how do I put this that's one acre the standard RR zoning classification how would this uh affect bethon Beach Orman by the Sea anywhere east of Clyde Morris and Orman Beach derbish Road or any properties uh thereof with uh in those areas with one acre the majority of the areas you identified are within the urban areas so they do not have the rural zoning the only areas that I would be aware of is around the new smna Beach South is State Road 44 you know right around in there there are some rural residentials A3 A4 properties um moving on uh AG culture I know you're familiar with this uh no matter the zoning classification or the size if it's uh used in conjunction with a Bonafide agricultural operation uh can uh those Vehicles no matter the number be stored on any property as long as it's uh tied into the agriculture operation yes sir if you have a approval through the property appraiser office as a agricultural classification and the equipment or vehicle is associ assciated with that Bonafide agricultural use you were exempt from the zoning regulations um and lastly uh just to to conclude so you can have uh unlimited Vehicles as long as it's uh uh tied into our green Bel or agricultural laws and and uh as long as you're Bonafide agriculture but if you're not you can't correct okay that's all I got councilman Johansson for questions or thank you yes thank you chairman um because I don't live like this but want to um I I want to clearly understand that that if I live on a one acre 2 and 1/2 acre lot and I have a a driveway with a with a little area where I can park something other than a vehicle in front of my house but off to the side are you saying that that U um if I drive a 18wheeler that I can't keep my tractor there it's got to be behind the the house the setback of the house that was the direction County Council gave us yes so you know in my travels looking for set property I I see plenty of of folks who have things well out of the way but in front of their home and and I I apologize but I I thought this would be a allow people with a little more land a little more freedom to to park as they wish on on their on their properties um all right thanks that's all I have councilman Robbins before I make the motion um uh I make additions to the to the motion not on the current with the current standards but uh Mr Ken I'd love to I don't want to cut you off if you want to go ahead you can thank thank you and um you know I I appreciate you asking the questions of Mr Irvin specifically about Orman by the Sea and down in new samna and things like that I I still stand Where I Stood on this months ago I feel like once you lower those expectations and you allow it um this opens up a Pandora's box of problems that I know I don't want to live next to you know I know we weren't all in agreement but most of us I believe were when we sent this back to staff and said you know the agreement I think was two and a half acres uh that if you had two and a half acres um then you know we would we would change these rules here and I just staff at that meeting presented us pictures of absolute nightmares if I live next to that I mean it was like Sanford and sun on steroids some of those pictures Mr Irvin that you presented to us at that at that last meeting we're talking about all kinds of recreational vehicles and boats and uh company Vehicles you know there so I I appreciate you know all of your comments and and I'm of course interested to hear what Mr Robbins has to say but I I don't know that I'm going to be SED to change my opinion on this I I don't think this makes fuchia County better at the end of the day whenever you know when I when I walk away from this meeting tonight I don't think if I change if I change this I don't think it makes fuch County better I was I'm okay with what's presented right now by staff but if we change this to a smaller footprint I don't think that this helps fuchia [Music] County councilman Robbins chair just um appears we're going going to go into discussion I'd like to make a Jer how would you prefer it um we can just do it for uh discussion only and then and then do the proposal or do you want me to do the would you prefer the proposal up front cuz there may be more discussion I know uh there's a couple people waiting you still have questions I question okay that's all right uh let's take the questions first then Danny uh councilman Santiago um thank you Mr chair clay um does it limit the number of vehicles yes sir to two to two um Troy brought up the Stanford and sun um image um the way your ordinance is written here today could we get Sanford and Sons legally with this I know that's a very big description but I I I again we're working off the directive we heard from you and what we heard was the concerns that you saw with the code violations we brought up where again you have heavy equipment and a variety of different things parked in the front of of a different sites that is something that we heard you did not want what you wanted to be able to do was to allow for reasonable use of larger tracks of land where the occupant had a semi vehicle or similar type of vehicle to be able to park in a manner that minimize the impact on the general public so this wouldn't open the door to the San FR sun in our humble opinion as your staff we believe it's meeting the the policy Direction yall gave us and with the specifics that were identified I got you okay thank you very much um I I'm good for now thank you Mr chair you're welcome yeah I just got a question clay um I'm just looking at your definition section here page -8 or page four or five on the top or 9-8 on the on the bottom it says a definition of a large vehicle includes a truck with a gross vehicle weight greater than 10,500 lb yes sir okay so that would incl Ford F250s and Ford F350s both of which I drive and my wife drives and you're saying that I couldn't Jake drives you're saying that we couldn't Park our trucks in front of our house under this ordinance I believe that those could use it for it just says no truck trailer semi all that stuff or any truck with a gross vehicle weight greater than 10,500 can be those are all what paa was saying is these are existing definitions that are we're not modifying anything with those if you feel that we need to address those we can um yeah I'm not comfortable just I mean F250 F350 I mean pretty much everybody on the West Side drives those I mean we got to bump this number way up bring backas okay clay one more question from councilman Robbins is there a is there a mechanism in place for enforcement um I I know the answer to this to uh uh alleviate any um junky yards because that's not my intent here um is there an enforcement mechanism code enforcement yada yada currently for a a true junkyard yes where we start getting into issues is when people start talking about homebased businesses that's been the biggest problem we've had in regards to folks being able to identify that they're operating a homebased business right and so as long as with that provision as long as you're park behind a fence as long as it's not visible from a rideway or your adjacent property owner that's addressing as it as it stands right now though if you have a commercial vehicle that's over 10,000 lb in your yard and that's an ordinance which it is is is there an enforcement mechanism is that is Code Enforcement able to site that person yes sir okay yes thank you Council councilman Reinhardt thank you chair one quick question I'm glad uh councilman Robins brought up the code enforcement aspect are you and I know the answer to this but for full disclosure are you Proactive or reactive with respect to code enforcement uh we are complaint driven complaint driven so you're reactive so the complaint well it is the complaint has to be received not Anonymous in order for code enforcement to act on these trucks or whatever that may be in the front yard yes sir I do need to provide a clarification and I want to make sure the council understands our policy and code enforcement if you call in a complaint on Mr Robbins and I show up at Mr and I'm the code enforcement officer and it's parking a vehicle vcle illegally and I go up to his front yard our code enforcement officers are looking around because the fact is as soon as we tell that to Mr Robbins he's going to go why are you picking on me when the guy right across the street has the same thing and the person who lives across the street could have called the code violation in so we call it our 360 rule that if you're standing at the front porch of the person who's been complained upon and you see the same violation you go and let the property owner know that they're in violation not necessarily that it I like that but that's one street yes yeah we're not re we are not going out and patrolling and actively seeking out violation understood thank you councilman Robin uh thank you chairman I'd like to make a motion to uh modify um this uh existing proposal and uh make it 1 acre uh minimums uh for RR um rural residential uh zoning classifications and also include all non-conforming Lots 1 acre and above can I I'll second it if we can add upping the GVW to like 16,000 or 18,000 or something so that F250s and F350s and similar Dodges and Chevys can be parked in front yards Paulo before you answer it says in here commercial vehicles if it's a residential pickup truck 250 350 whatever is that included in this well we just go by weight so um who's going to weigh it well it you yeah you clay said it's Bas based on the registration um if if you're making those changes my recommendation is give us Direction we'll take it back we'll provide you finalized language to clarify it rather than you know trying to change the language on the Fly here um so you know if if you make a motion giving us direction we we'll we'll provide you those clarified changes so you can see how it looks like um in text okay uh councilman Robbins chairman I'm I'm amicable to that I think this will be a good start Let's uh have them bring that back and also too we can give them Direction Don to address your concern because really if you want to get into this any vehicle that you use it can be a uh a car it can be an F-150 if you're pulling a lawn trailer or a landscape Trail and you're using it for profit or For Hire is that not defined commercial I mean come on let's be real here uh and then we can look at the $249.99 uh weight limits I have my CDL I've had it for a number of years we can we can go into all that but this would uh give an initial direction for staff to come back uh give us some language and then if we want that I'll be more than happy to help you adjust uh and identify what needs to be changed in terms of the the legal definitions of uh commercial vehicles so how about if you withdraw your motion and then make new motion to table to a Time certain unless you want to just give them an open end time and and if Council would like us to come back we don't need to table it to a date certain okay we'll have to read vertise anyway so if we can bring it back when ready obviously we won't wait too long but yeah just direct staff to come back and modify the amendment to include the concerns identified and if that's the direction of Staff of the council staff will follow through and right so right now what you have is uh including one acre non-conforming uh lots of any acreage so one acre minimum including non-conforming lot in all res uh Rural and transitional agricultural zoning classifications just clarify so if you have say A2 zoning which requires a minimum lot area of five acres but you own a parcel that's 1.5 Acres that would be a legal non-conforming lot so you're saying that if you have that you would still be able to utilize it because you exceed the one acre minimum that's not what I'm saying that's I want to make sure that Dan is that's in technical long long form okay and this takes care of the uh pickup truck problem for you no it doesn't well because it says any truck over 10,500 gbw has to be parked out back right we can and F250s F350s that means you and I both have to pack park behind our house we can we can handle this this first and Don we can we can address that let's do it all at once to clarify what that is is currently in the code under 72287 that's what it kind of threw me off you were saying definitions but what it is is a large vehicles and that's where it says no truck tractor semi-trailer commercial bus cutaway van except for those Allowed by the exemption y'all are talking about and all this with a gross vehicle weight greater than 10 10,500 lb as determined by the vehicle registration or the manufacturer spec shall be parked except while being loaded unloaded for commercial purposes in a variety of zoning districts so what we will do is look at what is um the weight of a F250 or 2500 if you're Chevy or for or Dodge right and take it from there and see where we're at and report back as to yeah because it well you kind of left out the the operative phrase it says semi-trailer commercial cutaway blah blah blah or any other truck is your mic on or yeah all those Vehicles you read you read off says or any other truck with a GVW greater than 105 which is my F250 is Jake's F250 is everybody you know I mean I think anybody living anywhere with an F250 or F350 would be opposed to this regardless of what you're zoning is since we're not using the list here I'd like to chime in um I've seen five or six around valuch County five or six for f450s driven privately for pleasure I have a Dodge 3500 that is not for hire Danny brings up a point that that a car can be commercial so I I think our goal is to keep the the frontage of these properties from becoming Sanford and Sun not that we restrict commercial out in the front of a house right if I own a landscaping agency and I have 3 acres of land I should be able to park my F-150 with the sign that says J's Landscaping out front you know if if you want to restrict that go live in a HOA which I do um but but I I think because of where we live um this Ford F450 or something of that ilk that's uh that's that big ought to ought to be the high limit and and like Danny said this can be um just added added later or separate from from the ordinance but uh 14,000 I didn't realize a 4 450 is 14,000 lb gbr so or gbw so um that that's where I sit with this okay uh I need to repeat it maybe yeah well you do but before you do we have two members of the public who would like to speak we should still they've waited for this um you can see where it's going but uh Tim Tim Hoover first and then Tanya Anderson uh Tim Hoover 110 quiet Circle uh quiet place in the the country HOA president um we are a residential neighborhood we're not a commercial neighborhood um parking uh semis uh commercial trucks you you could you can however you want to if it's a F350 and stuff I own one too and it's over 10,000 pounds we're not talking that we're talking semi-trailers parking it within 5 ft of your property line you went talk about sand curtain son who's going to who's going to police this it's not being policed now we've had you guys come out to our neighborhood and you've seen it but all we get is we have four or five vehicles unregistered in backyards now we look like sanord and Son now but you guys are after bigger fish and now you're putting more code enforcement you're putting a lot more work on those guys they're busy now they just react the only time they go to a place is if you call and complain they don't police it now what if the only react never Poli the area we'd have crime up everywhere and I'm telling you now that the code enforcement can't enforce this are they going to go up and and knock on a home owner's door and say hey let me see your registration to make sure that you own those vehicles and that they're back far enough oh is this a 2 and 1/2 acre lot I don't know they don't know and if we do call and complain what do we get the C enforcement goes there says hey uh you got a complaint against you and they say who did it oh your neighbor over there Tim Hoover in the blue house he's complaining to you and what did what does he do next thing you know I got Bubba 65 250 lbs knock it on my door why are you complaining again and that's the way it reacts and that's happening and that's truth and all you guys got to do is give the code enforcement more code enforcement people to go out and police the area but you're adding more junk onto them more work for them to do and you ask who's going to enforce it both guys can't enforce it the only time they're going to enforce it is when we call and then I got Bubba on my back because I called on them that's not good neighborhood and guess what I'm he's going to have two maybe three semi park there and junk flying a junk stored all in it and grass growing up above it come on what does this do like you said what does this do to make luoa County better nothing Mr Robins I ask you what size lot must be anre because it's not two and a half it was two and a half you would approv this it must be an acre lot that you live on so you can get a semi on your property buy a bigger lot go to a commercial property this is crazy Sanford and Suns that's where you're going to get Tanya Anderson good evening my name is T Anderson and I reside at 345 Country Circle Drive West a quiet place in the country Port Orange I'm asking I'm speaking to you on behalf of my husband Jeff who cannot be here due to a business trip however please know that I do share the same concerns he wanted me to share the following I have lived in vucha County since 1973 except for the time I spent in college I have lived my entire adult life in val County I grew up on acreage in Glennwood I have owned acreage in quiet place since 1996 and have lived on that property since building a home in 2003 I purchased that property because of its rural setting like the property that I grew up on I know why people want to live in rural communities they want the peace the quiet the space the trees and the wildlife most purchase these properties to enjoy the benefits that it provides what they don't want are their rural communities turn into quasi business districts I don't see the need to change the acreage size that has been on the books for decades this is simply a move to appease some business owners who choose not to conduct their businesses in a business district but want to conflate their residents and their businesses at the expense of their neighbors if the needs of a business require storage of the vehicles in question then the owners of those businesses should be making the necessary arrangements for the storage of those Vehicles it is not the responsibility of the Lush County government to make accommodations for those business owners at the expense of the property owners that purchase property in a rural setting and simply want to take advantage of their right of quiet enjoyment in our particular neighborhood it is a small number of residents that have used their residential property for both their home and a business that falls outside of the current County ordinance many of those homeowners purchase acreage with the sole intent to use their land for commercial storage they selfishly choose to do so without any concern of how it affects the community by also providing their business a competitive advantage against competitors who do not have the ability to do the same most of the properties in quiet place in the country are less than 2.5 acres therefore I could simply go along to get along I could have the attitude that if it doesn't affect me I don't care however today you're asking to reduce it to 2.5 and it sounds like it may even be lower than that and I'm sure the plan in the future would be to reduce it to lower acreage threshold until it accommodates the wants of some council members who reside on smaller County Parcels at a previous council meeting it was presented by some council members as a financial benefit to community I think they're forgetting about a the Lost revenue for businesses that offer the services of of vehicle storage the additional taxes that the storage facility would be paying the additional cost of the maintenance of our residential roads that are not designed to withstand the daily use of heavy commercial trucks the the decreased property values due to the overall degradation of the neighborhood in respect to our community the requested change would positively affect only a few and negatively affect almost all and I know there are other communities in similar situations thank you for your time and thank you for allowing me to speak my voice thank you uh councilman Robbins play and Paulo please one final question do HOAs have the ability to make um um restrictions or rules within their h away yes or no Covenant and restrictions agreed to by the homeowners can be implemented so in reality if uh this HOA wanted to uh make the rule regardless of our um determination today or in the future uh can they do so yes or no yes thank you no further questions okay you want to uh Troy K thank you chairman again I'm not convinced how this makes fuchia County better uh I think it it makes it worse um and you know it's everyone's right to make a motion and I'm I appreciate that Mr Robbins made his motion I thought it was going to die for lack of a second and then Mr Dempsey jumped in and and seconded because I was gonna you know make the motion with what staff has has recommended here so um Council I'll be voting no on on the I'd say amended a motion but it really it wasn't amended uh amended staff's recommendation I I guess so I I'll be a no on this and if it dies then I'll make a motion to um approve what staff has recommended okay Mr Robins do you want to restate your motion my motion uh all the first of all all the um um concerns have been addressed we heard it from legal uh to the members in the audience you know Council as a statement here uh in the country when we move out to the country this is our way of life and really this is to empower not just the homeowner but the people that are putting or wanting to put food on their table to support their family without government interference onto their property there's still some regulations with this there's still an enforcement uh mechanism in place but this is to empower people to work we want people working therefore making fuchia County a better place because we don't have to raise taxes to support such people especially uh with uh uh possibly going to a further economic decline so that is the motivation behind this uh this is happening anyway um I I just want to piece of mind for our people people in my district across my district wildly support this that's why I was bringing it up and um my motion stays the same to adjust this to 1 acre minimums include all Rural and transitional agricultural zoning classifications to include RR 1 acre minimum and all non-conforming uses with a 1 acre minimum thank you here we're also going to bring back the uh clarified definitions of commercial vehicles and large vehicles um you know we'll do some research and and you know find out to make sure that no one inadvertently uh stumbles into a violation is there a second on the motion I'll second it but I mean is are we seconding to approve it as written or are we seconding it to have staff go back and revise a couple of things then bring it back to have staff Don um bring it back with the motion that I made to see the verbiage uh on it but it was already seconded twice yeah well I'll second it for third time it's been changed twice I just want to clarify I think we're we're we're changing some of the substantive aspects of it um so we'll we'll we will go back to pdrc um and bring it but we'll we'll do it on a a hastened schedule and bring back a revised ordinance back to council okay so you're you're still making the second I'll second it okay all right before I call for the vote uh Vice chair Kent thank you chairman and yes I I know that this is a motion just to bring it back back to have staff clean up some language but I'm still going to vote no on it because I'm I'm okay with the language that we have now and I'll just say an acre of land is is really not that big of a piece of land um I think that this not to beat a dead horse but I I think that um this is going to have unintended consequences and you know we're going to have some some very unhappy residents I don't I we haven't had anybody come before us this evening and tell us they want this but we've had three from the audience come up and say please don't do this thank you councilman Santiago thank you Mr chairman I'll be brief um kind of similar comments to Troy however I'm going to vote in favor of sending it back to staff I I do remember the the dialogue that we had well I don't know a few months ago about this and it had to do with the size and I think we landed I think you and I were pushing for that two and a half acres um but um in the interest of giving you an opportunity to keep working on it um I'm going to support the motion but I'm going to I got to wrap my head around the reducing it to one so you're gonna have to help me how to get there later on later on no yeah later on thank you I got a bet with Don and we're GNA be out of here in nine minutes that's why okay uh no other comments chissa would you call the role on the new motion Mr johans yes Mr Kent no Mr Reinhardt yes Mr Robbins yes Mr Santiago yes Mr Dempsey yes Mr Brower no motion carries 5- two takes us to item 10 Award of bid for bulk fuel to multiple vendors good evening Janine Jennings Director of Business Services I'm going to help you get to your nine minutes uh this is a straight bid of Bolt fuel um we put it out we are part of a Consortium that we do the solicitation for that includes most of the cities in Flagler County and the school board and uh what we're asking is a recommendation of award to three vendors for our large loads and three vendors for our short loads that gives us enough capacity to help us in any emergencies and any shortages we may fa face and I'll take any questions any questions from the council motion to approve Mr chair second Johansson David Santiago makes a motion to approve and Jake Johansson makes a second comments all in favor say I I any opposed well done 7 to zero the motion passes item 11 at large appointment to the affordable housing advisory committee yes sir at this time I'd like to nominate Carrie rosalino uh she is um my nomination from the faith group uh as you guys are are very familiar with um uh my conversation early they're very often uh faith is very often critical of government's actions regarding affordable housing among other things uh yet lacked somewhat of an understanding of what we do now particularly in the ahac uh and I would like to remedy that and start working collaboratively with faith uh by inviting Carrie to the table and uh I also uh still try to meet with faith monthly so I think those two things uh will will get us partway there and uh second that thank you K rosalini is nominated second by David Santiago all in favor say I I I any opposed nomination is confirmed 7 to zero do we have any public comment sorry the headset was talking to me yes it's Mr Nicholson okay John John Nicholson you would never have made it out of date anyway you guys all have to talk so that's another hour 9:00 is better um I don't know if you guys ever read the paper anymore this popped up the other day fuchia County spefic specifically Daytona Beach million doll Club first in the nation for having vacation rentals when I moved to Daytona Beach 40 years ago we were the lowest priced properties on the East Coast until 2004 we were the lowest priced properties on the East Coast 2004 as you know the Hurricanes they wiped out or we did 17 properties on the ocean we this day we are 16 of those properties are still empty 20 years later we're not doing anything and all of a sudden now we're building million dollar properties I don't know what it's going to do it's a good thing for us good thing for Orman Beach the shores there is a condo hopefully going in across the street from me with $150 million condos great for our tax base in Daytona Beach but like I worried about what was going on when we I thought Margarita will was going in and my city was convinced that it wasn't going in I was convinced that there was a need for reefs off the coast of dayona Beach and our County because there could be tremendous damage to the Upland properties nobody thought there was a need for reefs I don't know how to express it because I don't convince anybody of anything nobody put a reef in although they were free theine had a way of getting them in for free and we chose not to do it um as you know these properties people will not live in it not for a year two years 5 years 10 years when they retire they will be empty for 10 11 months out of the year so they're not going to be buying any um vegetables any fruits they're not going to go to any restaurants they're not going to do any shopping they're not going to go to a theater it's going to be vacant properties and all the energy that goes into building these could go into affordable housing one of the problem is they can't get enough employees to build the houses they can't get enough cement or wood to build the houses the the price is going through the roof so we're going to use it in on these that will sit empty I don't know what the consequences of those I can't put my finger on it but I know that something's coming down the pike that we have to look at whether we want these taking up our our um Ocean Front just beware thank you thank you Mr Johansson I'd like to confirm that you appointed Miss Carrie as c as a citizen who is actively engaged as an advocate for low-income persons in connection with affordable housing that's correct okay that takes us to uh the county manager yes sir Mr chair uh first off just want to um put out that the uh we're going to have open house opportunity for Motocross um the county is inviting the public to attend an in-person open house uh next Tuesday the 23rd to learn about the Motocross facility that's being proposed south of shuns Road and West of tamoka Farms Road we're going to hold it out at the tamoka landfill operations center from 5: to 7:00 it'll be an openhouse style it will no be will not be a formal presentation but we will have story boards and people set up that people can go by they can ask questions talk to folks who are familiar with the project and uh and uh leave uh submit comments there so we can incorporate them as we go forward with the project so uh you get a chance uh people are interested to go out the MCA Landfield operations center is actually pretty nice if you haven't been in there uh next up I wanted to uh uh comment a little bit about the badier uh discussion earlier and also I was asked to update where we were um where we're at today if you recall there was a preapplication that was put in uh and at that time uh we responded along with the city of uh Orman Beach we got together we met um and we uh gave back uh 22 pages of questions and comments that went back to the uh U beler folks this is a pre-application we don't have an application so I think there was some question earlier about um how long do people have well they don't really have anything yet because they don't have an application so they have a pre-application and we sent back 22 Pages worth of worth of questions and we have not heard back so it's it's really in their court at this time uh as you I know I know many know there was $10 million I think in the budget state level that could be used to help a facility in either Flagler valua or uh Bard County but the governor has not signed that yet so that does not uh occur until he signs and then uh I would expect we'll probably hear something where we'll uh make contact to find out that's at but I just wanted everyone to know that really the ball is in there and the other Bader's court and they've got a load of uh stuff to talk about and that was just from a pre-application uh the other thing I wanted to uh quickly address uh today the towing industry folks were in we will look at that there there's several layers to this um but basically there is a contract in existence today that was put out and bid on competitively so the pricing that's in that is their pricing that they uh have given us and that goes out every so many years so the idea that nothing's changed since 2002 is not accurate because we put it out to bid I think the part that they're talking about is stuff not applicable to our County contracts but uh there's ordinances that restrict how much they can a private person could call in say they have a parking lot or something and and they're going to have someone towed out of there that's what they're talking about there so we'll take a look at that and see uh if that needs updating I do know when we looked at this a while back uh our rate our cap was in the same neighborhood as Miami Dade and Broward and and a lot of very rural I mean very Urban and expensive counties so we didn't find ourselves out of whack but it has been a while and we'll definitely take a look and and bring something back and that's all I had Michael Dyer yes sir um I know during the initial public comment this morning there are a number of things said which considering the lateness of the hour I won't belabor the point but I want to thank Paul Loria for the work he is doing every day he's professional hard worker and he works with um staff they're just trying to do their job so thank you and I I would ask him to come up to the podium but I won't do that that brings us to the County Council and today we start with Jake Johansson thank you sir u in an effort to uh to get get away of the budget game uh George and and and Council I'm hoping that the organizations that we're members of uh or or or board members of will be coming to us with short concise briefs on what they do for us and what they've done in the past to justify the money we invest it seems that as the budget process starts going we go oh we could cut that we could cut that and everybody gets in a tizzy and and shows up with with 40-minute briefs trying to justify and stay in the budget um uh as some of you might uh remember I'm on the East Central Florida Regional planning Council so uh I would like to kick it off and invite them to provide us with an overview of what they do um I know with conversations we've had with uh um with Council led by Mr Kent that that we've kind of agreed to get in these briefs Bea consent or or um uh not as part of the actual formal meeting uh or as an info item and and I'd like to support that um and and then maybe uh uh whoever the members of Team Valia I know we get briefed by them but but that would be another one and any other that we that we participate in and we fund but but we may not be exactly sure what they've been doing for us this year um so i' I'd like I'd like to start that that process before it comes up in the budget and everybody kind of you know worries about whether they're going to be funded or not um George I I'd like to make sure I understand based on on stuff like this I know this isn't your product but I can't be handed this at at game day not knowing whether it's information in addition to what we have or or not so um I'm hoping we don't get handed a bunch of paperwork on the 30th uh for the um uh for the workshop and say oh here's some additional information that you might find useful because if if we're paying attention to what everybody's saying we're having a hard time reading that uh we we have gotten a bunch of information from clay and some tables and and some interesting stuff that I been digging into but I want to make sure we get materials ahead of time if there's more coming um uh County attorney uh and George I'll I'll send you a bunch of questions about the towing um uh just to just to keep it short and um you know I know that when the public speaks they come with a lot of passion and and well meaning and for the most part their their uh concern is is not unfounded um but every once in a while there's there's a little dig in there that that I feel obligated to comment on and um you know when when council's kind of said I guarantee you or I bet based on the vote that you guys were working basically behind Sunshine for the vote I think it was badier that was the discussion item uh or for the moratorium um uh I I opine that if it was 70 for the moratorium they wouldn't have thought that we talked outside Sunshine so uh I I would like to guarantee it from from my perspective that uh uh I don't have conversations with other elected officials about anything other than fishing NBA and stupid stuff we do with our families so um uh there's there's no talking in the sunshine or outside the sunshine amongst any elected officials that I'm aware of and and Russ Brown's always lurking like right on the other side of every Doorway to make sure we don't so um uh having said that uh chairman I'm done for the evening thank you very much Vice chair Kent thank you chairman council member Johan I appreciate that you brought up the idea that we get some type of feedback from those that we have contracts with and we find out where they are and what they're accomplishing I I I'm totally behind that and um George you and your team can lead the charge with that to make sure we get that information I heard our manager and I heard our at large member Mr Johansson talk about the towing rates I I was prepared tonight right now to ask this Council to support a that I was going to make that this come back as a discussion item I don't think that's necessary after hearing Mr rectenwald talk that he's going to get us some information so I'm just going to publicly say I'm hopeful you're going to do that in the next two months and that your staff will reach out to every individual towing company that was here today to let them know that you're going to do that you're going to give us information so that they're aware and everything is on the up and up with them sure and because you know your story is different than what they're sharing Ing and it's important for us to hear all sides of it and it's important for them to be heard so um I really enjoyed all of their their talk but the first Speaker statistics was it was very interesting to me Council I haven't asked for anything on the agenda in a while but there's a couple things I want to talk about um the first one is miam Gabi uh reached out to me she's a she's a a member of um the PACE Center for Girls board and she and I had a disc discussion and I'll just say uh the pay center for girls is in no affiliation with BL County Schools so um she asked uh me and I said I would I would like I'm going to make a motion to have a discussion item in uh I would say in the next two months on um the pay center for girls and what vucha county can do to help support them with their Endeavors of a new building second thank you I was going to say from what I understand they um they are are receiving some money from the state and I want to find out exactly where this this new site's going to be if it's going to be in Orman Beach I think Orman Beach should participate if it's going to be in Daytona Beach I think Daytona Beach should participate um if they want the county to participate and at the end of the day these are students that normally would attend VCH County Schools so I think it's extremely appropriate for VCH County Schools to participate as well so there's a motion and I heard a second there's a motion on the floor for uh County to come back with uh discussion item yeah for ideas on how to uh help Pace with a new building um did you get the second yes it was from Mr Reinhardt see if the clerk got it okay uh Matt Reinhardt just had a quick question also will that include um them coming out and possibly doing a or at least getting with us beforehand on presentation of some sort yeah I would recommend that I will get with them and uh we'll talk but I think uh yes a short presentation uh on what they're talking about and I will emphasize short because that's what we like and have it to you ahead of time so you have time to look at it and uh we can take the time to be do the discussion okay with that said all in favor say I I any opposed okay thank you Council um my second to last item is I'm I'm also going to ask that in the next I'm going to make a motion that in the next two months we have an update from staff and a discussion on the funding for LPGA and the improvements I know from staff we've talked about the state possibly taking that road over um but I would love for us to have an update from staff on that and uh for us to be able to speak freely on on the funding uh for that road and the improvements that are desperately needed is there a second to that motion I'll second that thank you motion made by Troy Kent to see uh to have an update on funding for lpta second was by Matt Reinhardt any questions or discussion all in favor say I I any opposed thank you uh Council my my last comment is um to the council I I just want to tell uh you gentlemen and also to staff I spent 19 years on Orman Beach City commission and we've been together 15 months here I am I didn't stop and think about it until recently but I am amazed at what we have um accomplished in the short six gentlemen to know I appreciate the hard work that you put into this every day and to George and Mike and your and your staff I appreciate whenever you hear from this Council Direction I have seen a more rapid Pace to get those priorities accomplished and our residents are noticing also have a good evening thank you councilman Reinhardt thank you chair um so Vice chair Kent took took my thunder on two items so Pace was one two but anyways um do that mean you're done no no not not near uh May 5th through the 11th I I I was going to do this last but uh I have to do it first is National corrections officer week I thought we were G to go one day without hearing no sir you said May 5th I was thinking you were going to celebrate s May 6 is before the meeting when I'm going to be presenting them which you go figure of proclamation for that so I'm looking forward thank you gentleman for supporting that uh in the consent agenda today it's also nurses week and I understand that there's a couple proclamations going out for that one of which is for the nurses at the jail that I'll be presenting on the 8th um for those two they are the welld deserved recognition for them um Friday uh I went to the uh city of Daytona Beach Shores where Nancy Millan and the Commissioners had um welcome the participants of the conclusion of the 28th Annual tour to force charity ride uh Jake you were missed I'm just kidding so they did ask where you were at so I said he's busy racing cars so um that 300 plus mile race started uh the prior Monday in North Miami Beach and ends that it always does in Dayton Beach Shores um and I commend the law enforcement members who rode on that very long journey for such a good cause um this year's tour will benefit the families of all the Fallen law enforcement officers that were lost in the line of duty during 2023 so um it's a great event there are several that uh actually ride that entire distance um and I think they do like 50 or 60 miles per day so uh I did tease a sheriff because I asked him I told him that I think I saw him jump on his bike about a mile back so he he left okay um Thursday uh councilman Robbins and myself were part of the port AR South dayona chamber of commerce's panel discussion on opioids in the workplace on the purpose of this panel was not only to bring awareness to this deadly epidemic but also to discuss the multi-prong approach on how to better tackle the issues associated with it um it was a great discussion um it gave us the opportunity uh we had I think a couple doctors there from Halifax an attorney's perspective um Danny cor sits on the opioid panel uh for us and uh I was trying to bring the jails stuff about it in uh but also because it has affected me um the 29th of this month will be one year since the loss of my brother uh due to an overdose so uh it was very important for me to to attend that and be able to discuss that anything we can do to assist with the what um Barbara Anne hegan from the port AR South Daytona chamber is doing uh by all means as well as the valua recovery Alliance they're doing phenomenal work as well um and lastly uh Turtle day great event if you guys missed it I'm telling you it's a it's a great event I I always am overwhelmed by Chad mie and his staff and what he's able to do uh the place was packed um and I do understand the challenges associated with traffic with respect to that George and I have briefly discussed that um so we are in talks with u the city of Pon Inland on how we can help with that and we we'll sit down with with him and uh you have made me aware of that and I appreciate your before I could even ask you you address that so I thank you very much for that um other than that thank you guys very much and have a good night councilman Robbins chair uh no just to Echo a little bit of uh what Mr Kent uh said you know we're making great progress in a lot of what we do um I've never seen or imagine would get some progress like we've like we've been getting and I think you know each of our districts are so uh different and it's it's uh always enjoyable to hear kind of all sides of it but also appreciate the consideration you know with each um individual uh um District member who I'd say knows uh or is most intimate with their district and and I like the ability to or what we have to uh to have that trust in each member uh and their ability to represent uh um uh the base of their constituency that that put them here so you know we deal with a lot of issues all these issues there isn't a one out there that doesn't have unintended consequences when I look at issues I I try to make sure that uh we look at everything you know to uh minimalize that and set up protections uh for each other uh and and for each other's constituents and also uh you know uh for success and uh you know we talk a lot about Liberty so you guys will see like I said at the beginning of the year um I'm focusing and really drilling down on getting rid of the bureaucracy and some of these um I I just say strangling and wet blanket uh ordinances uh that we have in unincorporated valuchi you know a lot of these things that that we discuss are great in a city setting and I and I believe in them when I review it and talk to constituents we dealing with the county and unincorporated valua you're talking apples and oranges uh in and I'd say 99% of the circumstances but I'm I'm uh I'm I'm thankful for what staff's doing I'm thankful for the time you guys allow me to get into some of these discussions and uh Troy I'm I'm hoping I'm hoping I can earn your uh earn your support so all right thank you guys councilman Santiago Love Is in the Air what's going on it's not even Valentine's all great comments guys um I actually a couple things that I had on already taken but um one thing I I asked for um consensus or support from the council I wanted to cover two things regarding our land use Workshop that we have scheduled um one uh I have an unavoidable conflict on that day I wanted to see if the council would entertain to see if staff could look for another day that we can work on I I've tried playing around with the schedule but that it's a what was that yeah to see if we can as soon as possible after that but I got an unavoidable conflict that day if we can if I can get some support to relook at that I'd appreciate it you're talking about for the for April 30th correct yeah and I really want to be there so I think we need to have everybody there so if you if someone can't make it I'm I'm totally fine finding another date so we all can so we all can be there Danny Robbins David uh what plus or minus a couple days I I'm going to be out May 10th through the 13th I'll be in South Florida but I want to try to make it work for you yeah uh I guess it's going to be different for everybody maybe staff can just play with it and see okay I just want to see if I get support I want to get it done as quickly as possible yes but no I think George just got something his hand yeah I handed out just to show you uh Mr Santiago did give me a little heads up he was going to ask so we this is what we're dealing with right now it would look like the closest we could get get in on that might be the 11th of June or the 13th of June depending on a couple things here that might be flexible but uh I just wanted to uh point out May is looking a little ugly just because uh a lot of people are going to be out of town on those days June 11th and 13th are great for me both days Council I'm wide open and anybody else the 11th and 13th of June good for you both are bad for you in the one I know uh one of those is a briefing which I'm sure we could work with and and we'll look at uh we might be down an attorney but uh we'll see what we can one less attorney I don't think it's going to hurt anybody that's that's what I you can go down two three for the meeting all right what I what I'll do is if if those two dates are okay I'll get back with Dana and we'll see which one works the best and go back out to you guys yeah I wouldn't be able to do either of those days June 11th through the 13th pretty much any that's when can we just have staff get with the members okay well I just tried to yeah no I appreciate I was trying to you know but we'll go look and see what else we can do thank you even if one of those days are blocked out where I'm out get with me because I may be able to switch some stuff around all right if it's up to but I will say it looks like there's a couple of them yeah that are uh where there's two of you but but if that's being the case as long as I have the okay to go ahead because I'm going to have to cancel the 30th too so that if it's the direction that you guys are okay with everyone being there we'll cancel the 30th and hunt for a date and I'll get with you on a couple of these where there's only one conflict and maybe we can get it changed for me it's okay to cancel the 30th I think we should all I think everyone should be present if we can that's too bad cuz I did like the 11th and the 13th cuz Russ is off those days on vacation so it would have worked out beautiful um he lies those days thank you council members I appreciate the uh the latitude um with that being the same theme on the workshop I I was giving it some thought oh Jake sorry let me calm down first okay all right um I was giving some thought on I thought when we gave staff Direction on this Workshop I think it was too broad I don't think we gave them the land use of such a big beast and we threw everything at them I I I I felt that that topic is important enough and so deep that it probably unless the first meeting is a segregating out what areas we want to tackle but I just worry about when we do have that meeting the topics are going to be so broad I don't know how we're going to be effective um yeah so maybe the first one is that right narrowing it down but I'm just I just wanted to voice that concern because I can envision in that meeting and whether or not we have a facilitator also to help us um move along with that meeting I I was just looking at the functionalities of it I don't know if anybody else had that concern but I'm okay with diving in what what do you want to narrow it down to well whatever categories I mean I know we talked about zoning categories right we talked some gaps in some of our categories we talked about infill uh Direction on what we can do on infill in areas that it's promotable and then we also talked I'll like the last thing that I remembered I wrote down um design standards I had mentioned design standards at one time when we were doing some commercial stuff so those are the things that I wrote down but go ahead CLA director of growth and Resource Management this came at a recommendation from council member Robbins because there was two issues that y'all directed us to do with the original goal setting which was looking at special exceptions that could be made into permitted uses or condition uses and amending that we brought that forward yall asked it to be put to a workshop to go over it and as part of that discussion the other topic that was identified was the concern that uh again M council member Robin's brought up with all the permitting and going through what are we required to do by federal state Charter comp plan and can we get rid of some of those permits those were the two primary things that drove it then we started getting into additional items on there we also talked about the special exception on the different Cate the number of categories whether or not we would accept four out of five three out of five or stay that's already coming to you that's already coming that was a previous and then the thing that was identified pre also a meeting later was uh the discussion on the I2 zoning where we have the uh extremely open-ended per list of permitted uses so those were the three main topics we were addressing and then we started working on the others so would it be safe to say that that's a lot to take on in one Workshop I don't want to put words in your mouth I'm just George anybody well we're prepared to do it but I will say uh I think when we had this uh meeting the other day to talk we were somewhere in the neighborhood of 36 Slot of just uh and that's our working stuff you wouldn't see that but it would be part of the background material that we would put out ahead of time because obviously we we feel like again like you had mentioned Mr Johansson we would definitely want this out in your hands ahead of time to read and look at because not only will it be kind of those slides telling the framework but also background information with it so yeah it'll be quite quite a a bit of material and and that's why we're we're just getting ready to put it out here short so then we could always schedule a second one after that I well yeah and I think that's what you when you get the material you can take a look and we can start with uh as clay said what we were directed and we can get as far as we get and then we can say We'll Meet Again uh with a further Workshop if if we don't get uh as far as we want sounds good to me okay thank thank you Mr chair that's all I got thanks uh I I will need to just to cancel that meeting though I'll need a a motion to um to do that let me come back second we have a motion to cancel the uh May 30th Workshop by David Santiago is second by Jake Johansson and Jake did you have a comment uh this is a good time for that um I so I rearranged a schedule to be available so not David's fault but um now we're changing it again um I suggest doesn't have to be done now but I suggest we schedule next year quarterly workshops and then cancel them because that way we can all schedule our year around the workshops and if they go away no harm no foul cuz that' be great I did a lot of junk to be back on the 30th with kids coming home from college and college graduations they just got wiped out and and so you guys know me I like I like a little bit of routine here and this kind of messes it up um so if we just put them on the schedule then then then we can and and something tells me we like the philosophical discussion we use those workshops even if it's for something simple so we can chat informally about it so I suggest we do that uh next year uh not tonight so that's all I have thank councilman Dempsey yeah I thought one other thing clay that we talked about did he leave over oh there he is okay was that not only were we going to discuss whether special exceptions could be converted to permitted uses but also that that permitted use could also go up or down the zoning classification so like if something's a permitted use in A3 or if it's a special exception in A3 we change it to a permitted use for A3 we could also discuss whether we want to make that also inclusive for A2 or1 zoning as well that was part of the analysis that was submitted to y'all it it identifies the broad base of all the zoning districts where that use is allowed by special exception and that was part of the and that's going to be part of the workshop as well yes sir thanks I just want to make sure we were clear on that as well as we were on the subject and then thanks Clay the only other thing I was going to bring up um yeah thanks George for bringing up the open house next week for the Motocross facility and I just wanted to bring up um in that Hunden study uh that was done which I don't know if you could tell from our last discussion I I I'm not a big fan of the report at all um for some reason I've been tagged with uh you know my belief would be $25 million or less because like I've told you I've priced these out before um and the Hunden survey came back at 10.3 million which I I believe was grossly overpriced we had three track owners here who also testified I believe that that was way exorbitant it was um an unconscionable amount I can tell you right now for the record if it's 10.3 million I'm a no vote for it okay so I'll just put that on the record right now that's how sure I am that it's not going to be that much but P County one of the comparable sites that was used used in that Hunden study was bone Valley which is a park a similar Park that I'm proposing in P County and Bone Valley just announced on April 9th that one of the gentlemen that was here Jason Baker who owns dream tracks have been in business for 20 years they're opening up a Motocross facility there Jason Baker will design and build the track at a cost of $240,000 okay we got an estimate from hundon of 1.8 million for basically the same thing okay so I just want to go on the record that uh you know I don't agree it's not going to be a $10 million facility it's going to be 2 million or less in my opinion I would never even bring something like that forward for the taxpayers to pay but I do think if we're paying a couple million for pickle ball routinely that 2 million is nothing to ask for the kids who enjoy off-road dirt biking when there's nowhere to go in the county but I just wanted to bring that up because I thought that was uh I think that's uh great that pul County recognizes the need and one of the people who came here spoke is doing just what I'm proposing for $240,000 so it's not a $10 million price tag and I would encourage you guys to come out next Tuesday and go to the open house I believe a lot of those people will be here a lot of families will be here and maybe it'll help you better understand what the Sport's all about because it really is a family Sport and uh there's a need for it and other counties are doing it and I just think it's like I've said before it's long overdue that vucha County kind of joins the bandwagon I believe uh the speedway is behind it NASCAR is behind it um Speedway owns the AMA I support you Don and okay I know but you didn't include me in your conversation but no I just wanted to uh bring that up because just because you support this proposal doesn't mean that by any stretch that it's going to cost the county $10.3 million I just think that's a I don't want to describe what I'm thinking about that number but it like I just po County's doing it for 240 I'll leave it at that thanks for your attention guys Mr chair Russ Brown I think there's still a motion on the table right that we need to vote on to cancel the workshop that's not your fault Don all in favor of canceling the 30th meeting say I I any opposed and it's cancelled 7 to zero thank you Don just uh so can I repeat everything I just said for Jake's sake because it was because he wasn't able to concentrate yeah because we were out of order in okay [Laughter] uh couple just quick questions uh probably for you George just for clarification on the guys that came in and talked about Towing this morning they're talking about we don't have anything to do with what they can charge private people to go and Tow somebody from their home well there is an ordinance on the books that talks about non-consent and trespass Towing so in theory you could potentially maybe contract out if your for a commercial provider but generally if they do a consensual uh a non-consensual or trespass tow they have to follow the standards that are in the ordinance my car breaks down and I call a tow truck they can charge me whatever they want because that's not a trespass or not essential tow unless I just wanted to clarify that because I think some people might have left here thinking that we control everything that they can they can bill and this is when you get towed and you didn't want to get towed right somebody else's property right then there's a sheriff's Towing see that's where I think some confusion in with us we have contracts for uh where we order the towing or the sheriff does and those are rather large contracts and then but what again there's this ordinance that is out there for uh trespass Towing nonconsensual that occurs on somebody's in somebody's parking lot that they shouldn't be okay thank you for clarifying that the the other question was I appreciate you uh doing the update on badier um so they still haven't turned in a formal application have they turned in a formal site plan no they've only turned in a pre-application uh which is a does have a conceptual site plan contained in it but it we don't have a um any kind of a real sight plan clay you had your hand up because this is under such public scrutiny I want to make sure the terminology we're using is correct they have submitted for what we call a conceptual site plan it does not have the ability to allow for the project to proceed it is really just a concept plan that's provided to us that we provide comments off of they provided um quite a few pages from their permits to D which don't necessarily pertain to all of our requirements and yes we did provide uh 29 pages of comments that are inclusive of city of Orman Beach staff to them uh what you heard tonight was that there's a concern that we don't have a response deadline the whole point behind a conceptual site plan is to give you the ability to come in hear from staff and make the nogo decision and go back to your professional and see if there's anything that they feel they can do for the site plan so that's where we're at we have not received anything else there's not the formal site plan final excuse me final site plan application in at this time that would be the next step thank you for that clarification uh before you go away Matt Reinhardt yeah just had a quick question maybe for you or George that question being an answered because that's what I hit the button for the first time thank you and none of those questions have been answered how long ago was that given to him I want to say end of February end of February have that something we can with what we learned tonight from what you said is that something that can be put on the website so it'll quell the individuals are here you know on the website on the it's on the website now okay I appreciate it thank you well they said it wasn't updated that's why I was saying okay thank you I think it's because there's been a g of time you know it was put out there and now there's a gap of time as you said I mean they I believe they're in probably some sort of decisionmaking mode on their own of of here uh or somewhere else uh you know waiting on what that uh that $10 million uh deal that may be out there and and maybe where else in the state they might want to uh to locate because my understanding of course from the original discussion were there were multiple sites so uh that's right hopefully we'll learn something or see where they're going after the governor signs the uh the budget I suspect we will does he have a deadline for that does anybody know to sign the it's quite a ways off but he has a he does have a deadline that's it's in June okay and the yeah it's a good question that and the state budget has not been presented to him yet by the way ah gotcha okay all right last thing I wanted to bring up uh is rather than doing a proclamation for it just to announce it um on May 2nd is a National Day of Prayer I think if there was ever a time when we needed uh uh prayer in In America it's now although I guess we we always do but May 2nd National Day of Prayer we have a a local event um that anyone could attend May 2nd 7 p.m. at First Baptist of Daytona is that your church no um he he worships at Corrections so 7 p.m. First Baptist at Daytona First Baptist is right across the street from the flea market in on Daytona it's 10 first Baptist Parkway um uh again across from the the large flea market so I would just encourage um as many people as possible to participate in that or in your own with your own church your own family um we definitely could use prayer and uh Jake Johansson yes sir I I have a question from the previous George or uh clay could answer it does beler has no obligation now that they've got all our comments they have no obligation to tell us they're not interested right they can just never come back and leave us hanging not that they would but they could they could so so I I think that's important that the public knows that we might be done now I doubt it but we might be done now they might be going we're not going there and we'll never know so um uh I I don't think that's the case but but like I like I said after in normal circumstances when somebody gets that many comments back however many it is they might go you know I don't want to be any part of that and I know in in development that happens a lot they go it's a bridge too far we're going to move elsewhere so exactly and we don't know what behind them we don't know what kind of uh investors they have and maybe they investors are watching and saying I I don't want to take the risk something who knows thank you thank you and we are adjourned to date 41 e e e e e e