##VIDEO ID:IfrpPQoW6iY## e e e check one two three mic check for close caption planning Land Development meeting January 16th 2025 you have your close caption up are you going to use this computer for e e for e e e e e e for for e e e e e e for for e for e for for e e okay I think we got our problems taken care of so yep and now we will start so I'm going to to call to order the pdrc meeting for January 16th is now called to order if I can get everybody please silence their phones and electronic devices and stand and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stand one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all if we could have the roll call please good morning good morning Miss Craig here Mr sixma here miss Shelly here Mr Costa here Mr Mills is out today and Mr Patterson he is present he's present thank you all right we have uh minutes from uh November 21st of 2024 and December 19 2024 we've all had a chance to review them if I can get a uh any corrections or changes if not I'll entertain a motions I'll make a motion to approve please continue so we have a motion on both November and numbers mhm and set the motion as well for both so I have a motion by Miss Shelly uh e Shelly and a second by Miss Craig all those in favor I I all opposed okay Mo the minutes pass all right we have chair comments um first off I'd like to say I am filling in for the chair so today's might go a little sketchy uh so please bear with me um on the chair comments if you uh want to speak on any of the cases uh for or against that were being heard today please fill out a card at the back of the room and uh hand it to Yolanda right over here and you will be called up at the appropriate time also we have a three-minute time limit uh for each speaker on each particular case and with that we move to uh Mr storya for legal comment thank you Mr chair uh this is uh uh information for members of the public as well as for applicants that Decisions by this body on special exception cases and cases which rezone Real Property from one classification to another for to the zoning ordinance are recommendations only to the County Council and do not constitute a final hearing new evidence may be introduced at the County Council public hearing decisions on variances made by this body constitute final action subject to an appeal to the County Council and what this means is that no new evidence may be presented at the time of the County Council public hearing on the appeal an AG grieved B party that appeals such a decision is confined to the record made before this body hearings by this body on rezonings special exceptions and variances are Quasi judicial in nature meaning that this body is acting more like a court and must take into account all oral written or demonstrative evidence presented their decisions on these cases must be based on competent substantial evidence in the record and competent substantial evidence has been defined as that evidence a reasonable mind would accept the sport conclusion I'd like to add that for your variance decisions you a minimum of four regardless of the makeup so there's five current city uh present members um so any variance approvals needs four out of five um and thank you Mr chair four out of five correct and the applicants each have an option to with uh to continue if they so choose thank you uh moving on to expar Communications if anyone on the committee would like to uh had any conversations would you please acknowledge now we'll start to my immediate right with Miss Craig none none I did have uh conversations with the applicant on case v- 25009 also with the applicant on case s-25 d004 and on case o- 25-4 I initiated contact with a couple of um experts in the field of storm water and that's it then moving on so we've got a couple cases that need to be um continued or withdrawn on I believe these are all continuations and they are case v- 25006 v- 25-7 v- 25- Z8 8 four four is under old business that's old business yeah so we have three to be continued triple 06 or6 007 and88 is we show that under new business we got moved okay yes they got moved okay I'll make a motion then that we is till the next meeting continue the next meeting um Trish yes sir we're asking to continue till February 20th February 20 feary 20th okay make a motion that case v256 uh Case b257 Case b258 get continues to the February 20th you say yes 20th February 20th meeting second so I have a motion to continue cases v256 v257 v258 by Mr sixma second by um Miss Eda Shelly all those in favor I I all those opposed none we moving on to Old business and um Michelle would you read the uh that case into the record please yes sir case number B-25 d 004 uh application of cob Cole agents for the owner requesting a variance to the minimum yard requirements on transitional agriculture A3 zoned property and this one is Mr Harris I believe yes good morning good morning this case was continue from the December pdrc hearing the applicant is seeking variances to allow a block bar to remain in its current location variance one is to reduce the front yard from 40t to 30 ft variance two is to reduce the side yard from 25 ft to 7 ft um it is a 3.69 acre parcel in a DA young Springs area the previous owners permitted a house and an agaz block bar the current owner purchased the property and combine 15 lots to produce one buildable site as part of the Lan exempt unrecorded subdivision subdivision the property was later subdivided with the approval of the exempt unrecorded subdivision land number two this separated the house which is now on the parcel to the west and the subject block barn on the property the owner is using the block Barn as a single family residence and did not obtain building permits the property borders a heavily Tree parer on the Southeastern portion of the site and has a 60ft rway along the southern boundary the parcel is own transitional Agriculture and has a future land use designation of rural which is subject to setbacks of 40 ft for the front yard and 25 ft for the side yard staff recommendation is to approve VAR variance requests one and two as it meets three of the five criteria I'm available for any questions you may have any questions for staff seeing none uh is the applicant present good morning good morning for the record Jessica gawa Copco Law Firm one Daytona buard Daytona Beach Florida I have a PowerPoint I'm not going to go in over it in depth but we'll have it for questions um like Mr Harris said the property is in the A3 zoning District um we're looking at very uh variances to setbacks just to memorialize the existing structure that's been there um it's kind of a fun adaptive reuse of an existing Barn you know it was exempt from permitting they want to use it as residents we were asked to come through and help them um go through and get it fully permitted and recognized um so this is the start of the process we would go through with County staff on any permitting and building requirements after this um you can see the outline of the property here um like it was noted a lot of lots were combined into this overall you've got some covered stalls in the rear for um livestock horses we did reach out to the property owner to the east um and talk to them about the variance request I don't believe they are here today we went through kind of what we're requesting this is the overall survey you can see all of the former lots that existed um the pole barn has been in place and we do want to point out that in terms of impact to adjacent owners the nearest residents um is what you see here on the screen which is actually to the I'm going to say west of the screen I don't know where to North is and it's about 450 ft away and so the um property directly adjacent to it where we've reached out and talked to the owners there's no residence there um and then there's a road beside that as well before you hop over to the next impacted area so we're requesting this variant so we can go through the permitting process to get this recognized um as a a fund conversion of a former Barn that's no longer used into a residence and we're here for any questions any questions for the applicant I I have a couple for you um so reading this so they bought this in 2011 so that's been used as a resident since 11 or prior to um no I think this current owner um is the one who converted to converted to Residents what precipitated the um the variance request was was started the ball rolling we came in later and I'll defer to staff but my understanding is she came in about a potential RightWay vacation adjacent to the property and this was noted as an issue okay and that that triggered that okay um and that is the only dwelling so it's not an Adu it's actually the main dwelling for the whole property correct the other three buildings that we're looking at look like to be uh metal barns those are just covered stalls covered stalls okay all right thank you um we'll see if we have any uh particip any public participation and call you up afterwards thank you do we have any public participation on this case no sir no seeing none um we'll move on to um commission comments Andor motion I will make a motion for approval on case v254 can you turn your mic on Stony please oh he actually it is on you hear that now I can okay I I'll make a motion for approval in case v254 uh for the two variances and I guess that's all it was the two variances yep second so we have a motion on case v- 25004 and a second uh my e Shelly all those in favor first off any discussion no discussion on the motion no all those in favor I I any opposed yeah no motion passes un iously moving on to new business if you would read the next case which is 25009 please yes case number v- 25-9 a variance to the accessory dwelling unit Adu regulations on Prime agriculture A1 zoned property and this one is also Mr Harris yes the applicant is Seeking a variance to convert in a existing twostory 16 86t primary residence into an accessory dwelling unit and build a new 2400t primary residence the variance is to allow the accessory dwelling unit to be greater than 50% of the size of the principal structure the property is 10.12 acres in the new smina Beach area it is A1 zoning the property is vested through an unrecorded exempt sub division called Heiser number two it is currently developed with a 1686 ft² single family residence a storage shed a frame shed a covered deck and two pole barns the proposed 2400 excuse me the proposed 2400 foot principal residence allows a maximum Adu size of 12200 Square ft but the existing 16 86t single family residence that is to be converted exceeds this limit by 400 86 squ ft this is 70% of the living area of the principal structure staff recommendation is to deny variance requests as it fails to meet three of the five criteria should the pdrc find that the applicant has provided competent substantial evidence the following conditions have been provided for consideration condition one the variance is limited to the size of the proposed Adu as shown on the variant site plan number two the applicant should apply for a change of use with the pyramid Center to convert the principal structure to an Adu and third the accessory dwelling unit must adhere to the same setback requirements as the principal detach single family dwelling unit I'm available for any questions you may have any questions for staff I do have one um just to clarify so the 50% Mark he'd have to build a what a 3,000 foot house correct in order to avoid the whole variance process correct okay thank you go ahead could you please use your mic sorry I thought it was on um has to meet the setbacks that was one of the conditions correct does it currently meet the setbacks no it does not okay thank you so let's go back to that one then so are you saying that the existing residents does not currently meet the setbacks Oh I thought she was asking about the proposed drug any proposed building needs to me the setback it currently does it currently does there was a comment okay thank you and just to clarify so this particular what is currently shown as a primary residence once the SEC the second residence is built this one then converts to Adu that's what we're talking about all right thank you any other questions for staff is the applicant present please please come up state your name and address for the [Music] record name is William Heiser uh I live at 33113 Modina away in Venetian Bay in new Samara Beach um the residents that we're looking at now uh my dream was always to to have some acreage you know when I retired I was with the Bri County Sheriff's Office in the K9 unit for 20 years and um so I was uh my family and I were um um really excited when we found this piece of property cuz it sits right next to the reserve the Deep Creek Reserve so um we have horses that we keep on that property and so I know I have three minutes here so the the residence the on paper says it's, 1600 you have all the time you need that's for you have all the time you need to speak three minutes here so I'm trying go ahead um so the residence uh actually says on in a piece of paper that it's 1687 square feet um that includes the Loft upstairs The Loft upstairs is a A-Frame house so it's um a deep house so when you go up to the the stairs when you go up there you actually only have uh I'd say two feet on either side of you that you can walk down the rest of it the A-frame I mean there's really nothing you can do up there except to um put Christmas decorations and you know your storage up there it also has a added on uh um laundry room which is about another 100 square ft so the actual living space is about 1,8 80 ft I'm a happily married guy but when you put my wife and myself in a th foot house I don't know how much uh I'll lasted that but um so um so I was asking to build another home yeah well that's what I'm asking you for I'm asking you for a separate house right now um and yeah it's it's just out about a thousand square feet so we're not looking you know I'm looking to put something and it was 2400 Square ft by the time I put Garage on it and and a patio out back and whatnot it was actually be 4,100 ft so I'm trying to keep it at around 2400 ft um so I I I'm asking that that uh you'll you'll give me some mercy and and understand and maybe um allow me to do that any any questions for the applicant I I have a couple for you if you don't mind uh first off you mentioned that your current address is in ventian Bay so with this property be your primary residence once the if this passes and you're allowed to build that other house yes sir that's what we're doing we're going to build a house and move there I don't know if you know about phenician Bay but it was a nice quiet beautiful little Community here but behind us they're putting up 750 homes now and traffic and it's just not I'm aware um the the other question is with this secondary with this this now existing structure becoming an Adu what's the intended purpose are you planning on renting this out being that you're up against a preserve is this like a temporary uh day trip or rental uh what's a no rental I I don't want anybody in my house I I'm kind of anal about how I keep my property and stuff so that would actually be my my children and Grand Tron are up in South Carolina and North Carolina so it would be um you know a week when they come down to visit us Christmas time during the holidays and during the summer that they'd have somewhere to go other than the tent that I'm going to have out back for them if if we don't get it okay and then uh lastly you did you you did see that the the three conditions should this be approved that was listed by the by staff on on the back and you're okay with those three conditions yes sir okay um let's see if we have any public comments if not uh we'll move on from there you may have a seat now thank you thank you thank you any public comments on this case no sir I have a comment we have a comment go Ahad ahead I would like to commend you on being uh being sensible about the size of the property and not feeling like you have to push the limit as far as the size that you can go so I commend you on that any public comment no no public comment with that we'll close the floor for public comment and we'll open it up for discussion Andor a motion I'll be glad to make a motion please proceed I move that case number v- 25- 00009 a variant be approved subject to the three staff conditions second all right so on I have a motion on case v-2500 z9 to approve variance the variance with the three staff recommended condition by um e shell and second by Stony sixma um any discussion on the motion all those in favor I I I all opposed passes unanimously thank you thank you Mr Heiser and now we'll move on to the next case case number v- 25-11 variances to the minimum yard requirements the rural agricultural estate ra classification and this one is um Mr Shams hi good morning um morning Steve jams with Planning and Development so this site is developed with a single family home that was built in 1985 in 1992 multiple accessory structures were built without permits and these included a detached garage a store shed and a canopy the garage was later expanded uh the property was sold to the current owners last December the applicant is requesting after theact variances for an unpermitted detached garage and a canopy structure in the southwest corner of the site uh there is a code violation for these unpermitted structures so um gaining the variances would allow them to come into compliance variance one is to reduce the South rear yard from 45 ft to 7.2 ft for the detached garage variance 2 would reduce the Western sidey yard from 25 ft to zero feet for the garage and variance three would reduce the Western sidey yard from 5 feet to 4 feet for the canopy uh overall staff recommends approval as the variances meet three to five criteria we do recommend two conditions that the variances are limited to the size and location of the structures and that the applicant must apply for building permits within 90 days of variance approval there was one letter of opposition that's been been provided to you this is from the most affected property owner on the western side and he has requested that the garage be reduced back to the original construction and that the expansion be removed I'm available for comment or question any questions for staff I have a question please um what are what are the directions on the the scale what we have in front of us is this North at the top yes ma'am South East okay yes thank you and we have two staff recommended conditions I have anybody other questions for staff I have one question um curious on variance two the um the approval from 25 to0 feet which would be uh that is the garage extension itself correct yes so you say it meets three out the five yes sir and that's the one that we have the letter of opposition against correct correct now that extension did it require a permit uh yes it would was it permitted no sir so this would take this variance would then take care of that permitting process as well well it would allow the the garage to be permitted as it is today they could move forward to permitting the garage itself or the extension or both both both okay so neither the garage nor the extension are permitted okay all right any other questions for staff nope and is the the applicant present please come up state your name and address for the record Robert Keller for the record any questions uh your address please um so originally the property was under Richard Bine uh that's where the application was initially made where I worked with Stephen chams uh when that application was put forth he's my grandfather-in-law uh we went under contract and we sent sold to John and Myra okay and since selling to John and Myra um the application has moved forth the the structure what you'll probably have questions with the garage extension um which a but to that zero um it's really independent of the concrete block they are attached but the concrete block it garage is what is of most value in this um particular situation so the extension is basically just a lean to it is yes okay that's correct all right um any questions for the applicant we do have one letter of opposition have you had a chance to review that one I have not looked at the letter of opposition I have spoken with you have spoken to Mr uh laflor yes Bruce correct and uh it seems like we're in agreement on the concrete block garage staying um I believe he may be in disagreement with the other items well let me read you the let me read this excerpt so he says however I am adamantly opposed to any variance allowing the plywood addition to the block garage constructed after 2006 um do you have any issues with potentially removing that or the new owners I should say no I I don't think that would be an issue okay all right uh we'll see if we have any public participation if we do we'll call you back up give you a chance to rebuttal thank you for your time yep do we have any public participation on this one no sir y we have a gentleman would like to speak okay come on up uh state your name and address for the record and if you would please afterwards fill out the form at the back of the room and hand it to Yolanda thank you I'm Bruce leer 4200 Falling Leaf Drive okay the uh AB butter to the West I'm most affected by all of these variances uh in agreement with Mr Keller I'm not objecting to the concrete black garage it's only fair that that be allowed to stay since it was 2002 before our properties were subdivided however all the other apperance is there that garage extension which is not just a lead to it's completely enclosed it actually encroaches on my property by a half a foot I have a survey here if you're interested in seeing it it's impossible to even access the outside of it without trespassing on my property uh I'm adamantly opposed to that to the metal shed and the canopy roof which is in disrepair and with all the Hurricanes we having I'm concerned about it flying off and damaging my property or people on my property it's a 2 acre property there's plenty of room there there's no reason why all these buildings have to be built right on my property line so basically I'm not in I'm not against the concrete block garage stand but all the other buildings there there's also a propane tank that's 5T from the property line that wasn't permitted and isn't to code zoning these have all been cited by Code Compliance 5 months ago and uh they're telling me that it's it's all going to have to be permitted I don't see how it could be permitted because none of it is to code so the any questions for uh for this gentleman no I I have one comment to make so this so the if the variances go through any of these go through at all it's going to trigger the building permit process so any of these that are um not to code will be bared out during that permitting process and either would have to be replaced repaired or or removed so no I like Assurance of that I I also don't think it's fair that the new owner in the last month is being saddled with this m the current owner who built all of these know what the code was and proceeded to do it without permits or illegally so that's where I stand okay thank you thank you I'll give the applicant an opportunity to rebuttle that uh so I think we're in agreement on the concrete block garage like L being fine uh the as as far as permits go and we'd prefer to keep any structure that we could presuming it would also be set in place and we'd have to then you know double permit that's outside yeah the permitting is outside our purview so that's yeah it it wouldn't there there's not a lot of value in the garage extension okay so you would you wouldn't be opposed as to removing that as part of the as part of the uh conditions I don't I believe yeah that's not going to be an issue yese um what's the purpose of the canopy um it's like a shed covering for for maybe parking a vehicle underneath is it currently being used yes any other questions for the applicant no no further questions thank you all right then uh we'll there's no other comments from the public we'll close the floor for public participation and uh open this up for staff um discussion and or a motion any comments yes excuse me I'm I'm I am opposed and we'll be voting no if we're including all this on variance to the Z going to zero and I'm also very concerned about variance three going that foot I know foot's a foot but looking at the property line that is extremely close when it could be um so that one I'm iffy on but I'm definitely uh prepared to vote no on all three of these together anyone else what what's that ex did I hear what the extension was made of plywood plywood okay so the the so the applicant saying that they would have no problem uh as part of a condition is to remove that garage extension which is also what the um Mr laflor um adamant opposition was to MH uh the condition of the canopy and the shed themselves will be borne out during the permanent process if I'm if I'm misstating something please correct me but I think that's that is uh basically the variances then allow this to go into the permitting process and the permitting is going to have to go out it's have to meet current code so if they're not up to current code they will either have to be repaired replaced or removed yeah I don't I personally I don't have a a big issue with the one foot on variance three um I'm glad that the variance to basically falls off the table with both the applicant and the opposition agreeing that by the removal that variance kind of goes away and so we're really just dealing with variances one and three um so if you guys want to take another look at that if you look at it from that perspective Mr chair just just have to vote no we do have to vote on correct a clarification if you remove variance 2 variance 2 relates to the concrete block garage plus the garage extension Plus the extension if you remove the extension if you don't grant that uh you would still be need to Grant a variance for the concrete block garage because it's an excess of 500 ft and needs to meet the principal setback so that variance too would go from 0 feet to 12.3 ft okay to accommodate the concrete existing concrete BL garage only they would have to demolish the extension the extension would have to go down but the concrete garage goes now the variance would be from 25 ft to 12.3 for the concrete block garage the concrete garage only that's pretty clear as mud yeah all right so let's kick this around where are we at anybody is um a question here also um when we did the roll call it was made mention that Mr Patterson was here mhm is he listening to the meeting is he able to vote on this because currently there's there's only four four of us up here it have to be a unanimous or they could have to do a continuation yep that's why I'm trying to get a feel for where we are and give the applicant that option I'll be I am I'm not in favor I'm very I'm concerned on all three uh no not on all three on the western sidey yard issues if they make the the variance uh I mean the corrections on on variance two I would be fine with it take the extension off and what not but so variance two would would be would one of the conditions would be on variance two that they remove the garage extension uh and then variance to would go be an approval from 25 ft to 12.3 ft correct I understand that okay I understand that are we in agreement with that yes yes okay I'm not about yes all right so we can add that as a condition and then on variance one any issues with that no and variance three yes you have an issue with that with the one foot with the one foot variance yes I'm also I I've gotten lost now as i' feel much better if I had a picture of the canopy of what was there it just says three canopy okay is it like a pole barn is it a solid building is it but if it doesn't meet code it had to be torn down anyway correct permitting yeah during the permitting process it will but if we approve the variant wouldn't it be allowed to go in the same place in the same location yes yes which I'm opposed to okay who am I all right um hearing that um I'm addressing the applicant now is that um you need a you need a four majority or ask for a continuation to come back when we have a full full commission that's your choice at this point in time before we call for a vote Yes you may come up okay um so e Edith correct yes thank you Edith um so your issue is or you have a issue with the 4 foot variants asking for the extra foot on the canopy I believe there's I don't know if it's included I have to I don't picture yeah I had an aerial included in the application on the yeah no no it's okay I I believe you no I believe I'm sure that but it was a a strange uh delivery of our packet it's like a it's like a pole barn it's a pole barn so it's totally open it's yes it is except for the roof yes there is only a steel it's a steel right to cover cars it looks like for extra yes yes no sides okay strictly a pole barn no walls no walls you don't do you have a picture of it at all with you let me see yeah I would love to see a picture of it yeah I mean it's not going to be a great picture because it's an aial and it's further away sure but it's still gives um it would be helpful for your reference because I understand because you have it there because of the driveway and for extra parking I understand all that see oh here's my application H um and then if we would you mind if I bring it up it's very difficult it's not going to help go to there and she'll put it up so we can all see it's tiny um okay so I I would be willing to I'm definitely opposed to the it it totally disappeared oh she's I thought I did I'm like I don't know it up there I can't fix this it's a virus I'm to the garage extension that's definitely out for me the canopy reason if it indeed is the pole barn look and open m uh I would approve but only that and not for Replacements I think that's reasonable I mean it would have to be that they can't extend it they can't go closer I mean I would not not agree to anything like that making it bigger or inclosing it DET because that makes a difference too I think there's not much detail we can see on that yeah I know I that's the only I could think of though um yeah that didn't help if I could blow I told you it's better eyes yeah you tell me oh my gosh okay microscope eyes for that you can well no I can't see you can see it's I can see it's yes I can see it's that you go through it I don't know that there's not a wall on the western side but I know it's any wall would be removed uh because I can guarantee you it is a pole barn with no sides okay can I uh get you to sign that for me up here just [Laughter] kidding I have a notary here I'll remove it you you can make it a condition of the variance that it remain a pole barn and unenclosed by thank you okay because it is just a foot so I understand that any other questions for the applicant no no you may seat you may be seated thank you for your time all right we're back to us and discussion on this case um or a motion and I think that we could take these uh variances one at a time if you like I I think uh since we've got conditions individually yep so whoever would like to start that um so is am I hearing you say that we have the option to do them one at a time or okay um then I will make a motion case number and I know um case number v- 25-01 variance one be approved uh variance two be denied and variance three be subject to a condition that the canopy uh that it remain open and that be a condition of the variance does that work uh variance two should be changed because variance one and two combined so variance two should be changed to reduce the western side yard from 25 ft to 12.3 ft only for the oh that I wrote that over there okay um and then for variance three um uh that should be uh a pole barn that remain open and unenclosed un remain open and uned you want to reread that again canopy yeah a canopy open canopy that's that's unenclosed okay open canopy okay try it one more time all right case number v- 25-11 variance that we approve variance one as is as is that uh variance two the western side yard goes from 25 to 12.3 correct mhm for the concrete G I like all this positive feedback thank you and that variance three uh re that will approve that variance with the condition that the pole barn stay open remain open I've got it okay the condition that the canopy pole barn remain open and unenclosed perfect second all right let me see if I can follow this correctly so and with the and we still have conditions uh two conditions by staff yes subject to the staff conditions second as well MH all right so let's try this from the top so case- 25- 011 we have a motion uh by Miss Shelly and a second by Mr sixma to um yes go ahead to approve variance number one as is variance number two to approve it with the reduction of the western side yard from 25 ft to 12.3 ft for the concrete garage only and the removal of the canop the extension garage extension and on variance number three uh approve it with the condition that it remain an open canopy or open structure pole barn canopy only open and un enclosed open and un enclosed perfect okay did I cover that all yes sir all right if there's no further discussion we'll go for a vote one one question yes ma'am on variance two do we need to mention removal of the garage extension I believe I just did y I did yeah did that go on the record yes yes uh they would have to remove it because you're not it would be in violation it would be in violation because we're already reducing the setback yes okay we're good mhm all right so we'll call this to a vote then all those in favor I I I any opposed motion passes thank you for your time a tough one yeah all right next case please uh 25 case number v- 25-12 variance to the minimum yard requirements in the transitional agriculture A3 zoning classification and this one is Mr Shams as well hi good morning again so the site is currently developed with a 2537 ft home an inground pool detached garage carport and two canopies the pool was constructed in 2004 and the current owner purchased a property in 2017 uh he requires consistent access to his pool year round for therapy treatments it needs to be protected from direct sunlight and inclement weather he is proposing to construct an 1170 squ foot accessory structure around the pool this structure would have a solid roof and walls with sliding glass doors um the pool is currently 6.8 ft from the rear property line which is consistent with the leing ordinance requirements but constructing the proposed structure around the pool would place it within their rear yard due to its size it would need to meet principal setbacks and A3 requires a 40ft rear yard so the applicant is requesting a variance to reduce the rear yard from 40 ft to 6.8 ft uh overall staff recommends approval as it meets three the five criteria I'm available for comment or question any questions for staff um I do have a question let me can you rephrase that so the pool itself being 6 foot off the property line is acceptable yes sir but the as soon as he puts the enclosed structure yes if it was a screen room would it also be subject to 40 ft uh no sir if it was a like a pool enclosure it would be fine but he wants to put a physical building around the pool which is a different an enclosed pool basically yes sir okay and that requires the 40 foot hence the variance yes sir okay all right any other any questions for no is the applicant present please come up please state your name and address for the record morning my name is Terry Meyers uh my address is 5731 Walter Street daily on Springs and you've heard the staff uh comments do you have anything you'd like to add um no I have a couple pict and also have a letter from my VA uh stating that I need Aqua and hydrotherapy for my disability uh so I have that and it just the thing is that I know four people that have replaced their screens four times this year sure it just went through the 80 mph you know it's like that's why I'm going with a hard cover so I can insulate it and keep it and I'm going be running uh 100% solar on everything on that so it's going to be you know very grain I have a very wooded lot and it's a very new building if you want to see a few pictures if you turn those in you know you won't get those back good that's fine okay if you would give those to Yolanda at the other end please there you go the uh the contractors that I contracted they put up the building and I I assumed they were getting permits and they just ghosted me they did not get back to me so MH I'm going through the process because I feel it needs to be done okay and and I said the building has already been through an 80 Mile and 100 mile winds already so really you know I'm I'm working on it now cuz I can't do a lot so I you know I'm at the mercy of some predatory contractors so but I'm getting it there you know I have all the you know so those pictures will depict some of you know I got some of the windows you know but everything is all um is either uh lexan or it's uh safety glass all the windows are accordance that and I do um I'm a I work on movies I'm a scenic painter po Builder so I have some other pieces of movie stuff was it me no okay we're having it's all day we've got we got some Gremlins in the machine today look too hard so uh you know I'll have a few of those things in it but then this way I can continue with my therapy without uh in my retirement without uh I have a quick question for you after seeing these pictures so the construction has begun or sir partially begun it looks like yes okay and so it's stopped now for this variance yes sir okay I I have everything sitting there on site um okay I have pictures of the uh of the Footers were put in everything was put in rear all that stuff I have that I have the pictures of all that 14-inch Footers everything done you know oop sorry to code so and if I could I'm sorry I have so many unorganized here we are so this is a permitted structure correct Pard me permitted structure oh yes yes sir okay here is the I have pictures of the Footers if I can just no that's yeah we're good it has all you know we everything is by code and the building is sorry I'm talking my hands uh but the building with the engineer and all the prints and all that stuff are in my folder and you know everything's all engineered and all that and then when it came like why don't I have a permit and then they wouldn't even answer my phone call anymore so we're yeah we're just approving the setback the variants for the setback itself um because the building is going through the permitting process do we have any other questions for the applicant no thank you thank you so much do we have any public participation on this case no sir no we do not motion yep we'll close the floor and open up for discussion Andor a motion uh I move that we approve case number v- 25-12 variance to the minimum yard requirements in the transitional agricultural A3 zoning classification and uh yes that's my motion okay so I have a motion to approve case v- 25-12 um to reduce the um the Eastern yard from 40 feet to 6.8 feet by Miss EA Shelly and a second by Stony sixma any discussion on the motion all those in favor I I any opposed case passes thank you thank you for your service as well next case please yes sir oh got it okay I got it thank you case number s- 25-4 time extension for a special exception for temporary campsites on Prime agriculture A1 zoned property and This one belongs to Miss Smith hello good morning this is an existing special exception for temporary campsites for uh associated with the Daytona International Speedway bike week and biketoberfest the applicants asking for a 2-year time extension to continue existing operations through biketoberfest 2026 this facility has been in operation since 1996 and is probably familiar to most of you um we are making roadway improvements on Pioneer Trail and um CR 415 that will impact this property the applicant will need to come in and do a new special exception and a new site plan after construction is done but we are asking you to approve that 2-year extension because we can't reconfigure the site until we know what area we have to work with so we're recommending approval of the time extension any questions for staff what are they with that intersection right there that's always is here but I believe that's a roundabout it's going to be a roundabout we do a harv our County engineer if he wants to come tell us I didn't know there's enough room to do a roundabout there but there's [Music] not good morning Tad kbear County engineer yes sir we are doing a roundabout we had to purchase property from three of the four Property Owners to to fit it in but that's what we're doing but want that come like right at the front door of where cabage Patches at yes sir mhm dangerous while it changes the traffic pattern it will no longer be a continuous run of asphalt where they can just enter the road wherever they like to yeah they'll have to come in through designated driveway locations which actually will make it safer now the driver uh moving through the roundabout or through that intersection will have an idea of where traffic would be added as opposed to anywhere along there when is all that supposed to start uh actually we've got the Construction contract uh all set we're ready to to go ahead and start here in the near future in the next 3 to four months obviously we don't want to get started before uh Bike Week bike week right yeah but there's always an event coming up so at some point we got to pull the trigger and get started okay thanks any other questions I have a quick question for you well comment more more of a comment than a question um Trish mentioned that roadway improvements I oppose the roundabout from day one and I still oppose it as a resident on 415 uh yes this is going to basically put the round about directly in front of the door the entrance to the Cabbage Patch and um the only thing I would say if I was the owner of the cabbage patches I would look for a variance and see if I could serve alcohol right out the front door as you're driving by drive by like they do in Louisiana but I don't think that's going to happen in Florida that's it thank you no yeah we won't be using the roundabout as a drive-throughs all right any other questions for staff is the applicant present please come up state your name and address for the record uh Roger lner 3862 pioner Trail good morning good morning you heard the the comments from staff um you heard the comments from the engineer you have anything you want to add uh the only thing I'm concerned is uh protection of the building some ballards or something being put in uh accidents people coming through that intersection with the roundabout MH protecting the building uh at this point the uh the attorneys and the engineers have been working uh still don't really have clarification of a guardrail or BGE or anything being put in in the event of an accident somebody coming through that uh roundabout protecting my building and and the patrons there so it's definitely going to change the the look of the frontage look of the building uh the roundabout would you say in the sense of to the South so it's not affecting the building itself but it's more protection of the cars and stuff coming through that intersection this is a Time extension for okay for campsites but the issue that I have uh with the campground is there's uh reconfiguring the driveways and entrances and exits um we're still kind of negotiating that stuff out as far as how you're actually going to be able to get in and out of that Campground so that's what we're looking at so you'll be back again in two years to get to go through this again to do this again okay all right any questions for the applicant no no no thank you may have a seat um any public participation on this one I'm ready to make a motion no sir no all right so we'll close the floor and we will open it up for a motion okay I'll make a motion case uh s254 be forwarded to the County Council of their approval um with the staff's two conditions second and we have a motion the floor by Mr uh 6 M and a second by E shell on case s254 to forward the special exception case to the County Council for final action with a recommendation of approval uh do we have any comments any discussion on the motion if not we'll take it to a vote all those in favor I I I any opposed case passes unanimously thank you next case please yes case number p- 24-11 application of Storch Law Firm attorney for henro LLC owners requesting a rezoning from the business planned unit development and resource Corridor zoning classifications to the planned unit development PUD and resource Corridor RC zoning classifications and This one belongs to Mr Shams hi good morning so the applicant is proposing to reinstate an expired PUD the Pud was originally approved in 2008 but expired in 2013 because it did not proceed the final site plan uh the site is split zoned BP and RC the RC area is not changing and the applicant is proposing to place the RC area in a Perpetual conservation easement historically the site was was a Stucky truck stop from the 1960s to about 1985 but has has since been physically removed only driveways to US1 and Kennedy Parkway Remain the subject site remains undeveloped and the applicant is proposing to develop the site utilizing the same conceptual plan approved in 2008 by the County Council uh the proposed PUD will not deviate from the original approval the proposed uses uses include 12,000 Square ft of non-residential use and four vehicle Fu fueling stations under a canopy the site is within our natural resource management area and will require a 50ft buffer from all Wetlands uh environmental permitting has reviewed the project and did not object to the P's reinstatement overall staff recommends forwarding to the County council with a recommendation of approval I'm available for comment or question any questions for staff no is the applicant present no applicant either okay any public comments no sir none of those all right so we will close this floor then for public comments and we will open the floor for discussion and or a motion I just kind of want to make sure that you know on the record the applicant has been notified of this meeting it's been advertised um so applicant has kind of waved I guess any any right to present additional evidence and to contest any determination of of this board this is basically just a reinstatement of something that was previously passed and the timeline has lapsed is that basically the yes sir okay what is the time that they're asking for is it the for the or not continuance but for so this is a new PUD so they're basically starting over utilizing previously approved material yeah it's approved back in 08 if I remember approved okay okay but it ran out of the appr so I was wondering if they don't do anything do they have a chance to do this again I mean if they're yeah if approved by the County Council after this meeting they it would start then new clock yes okay right they they would need to go through final site plan and they have five years to apply for final site thank you that's what I that I wasn't asking the question right thank you all right I'll entertain a motion I I just sort of have a problem when the applicant doesn't show up for something like this this is a big a big deal and I'm surprised by the applicant on this one yes yeah me too well do we want to continue I need a motion for that as well if you want to put a motion in in place for that I I I would definitely say give them a chance to continue this I wish we would heard from them though so so make a motion to continue PUD d-24 011 to the February February 20 20th 20th 20th pdrc meeting second we have a uh we have a motion on the floor to continue case P ud- 24-11 to the February 20th 2025 pdrc meeting um by m shell either Shelly and a second by Stony sixma um any discussion on this all those in favor I I I any opposed all right so the this case is continued all righty moving on all right okay and if you would read I think CPA and Z both of them together oh read them yes y because they're both the same that's what I was they are together okay uh case number CPA d2400 six smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment from the oin transitional residential TR future land use designation to the oine mixed juuse Village flu designation and case number z- 24-10 resoning from the oin transitional residential zoning classification to the oin mixed use Village omv zoning classification all right and this one is Mr Shams as well H good morning so the applicant is proposing a future land use change for the Eastern 6.01 Acres of a 12.98 Acre Site from uh oin TR to oin muv the remaining 6.97 Acres adjacent to State Road 415 are already muv and the applicant is also proposing the companion resoning application they intend to develop the site with 80 Town Homes uh the future land use change to muv is necessary to meet the housing density the site is subject to the oin local plan in accordance with the local plan uh vucha County and the City of Deltona entered into a joint planning agreement to coordinate the review the city did review the request and found it consistent with the jpa in addition the applicant has also proposed a revision to the normal line located on site with this application according to the applicant's request the current the current normal line is not entirely indicative of Environmental conditions um and it encroaches too far into the site as a result of a mapping error the new normaline uses a wetland delineation and will include the wetlands along the southern boundary of the site and a 50-ft wetland buffer environmental permiting which supported the proposed normal line um the site is developed currently with a a 720t mobile home and was operating as a tree farm from 1987 to 2012 the site was sold to the current owners in November 2021 it is located on the east side of State Road 415 generally the west side is within the city and the East is within the county there are single family residences adjacent to the site along the east side and a major commercial Plaza Northwest of the site at the intersection of 415 Howland Boulevard with the current future ly design Nations the site can be developed with 77 units or a density of 5.93 unit per acre if approved it could be developed with a Max density of 101 units however the applicant is proposing a maximum build out of 80 dwelling units or approximately 6.16 dwelling units per acre so it's an overall increase of just three units um the higher dens density of muv designated properties are directly adjacent to 415 and the lower density TR designated properties are further east which provides a natural transition from higher dens it to lower density changing the future lands of the site to be completely muv would be consistent with development pattern of the area east of 415 as its Primary Residential uh if the site were developed as muv it could continue to act as a transition of density um the proposed change is consistent with Comprehensive plan and the local plan and it's expected to result in an increase of 170 daily trips and 15 PM peak hour trips fucha County Traffic Engineering also reviewed the pro project and did not express concern so overall staff recommends forwarding the future land use change to the County council with a recommendation of approval and I'll also briefly touch on the zoning so they're proposing a resoning of the easternmost 6.01 Acres from otr1 to omv and the the Western 6.97 acres are already omv so otr1 is intended for a typical single family residential use on individual Lots omv is more versatile as it can accommodate those same single family residences but also town homes and multif family housing so this is apparent when you look at the dimensional standards for each class as otr1 requires 10,000 foot Lots compared to omv's 2,000 foot Lots in addition otr1 also requires a 10-ft side yard compared to omv's 5-ft sidey yard that may be reduced to zero feet for Town Homes to account for common walls of interior units so though the applicant is only proposing three more units than what is currently allowable their request makes sense from a zoning perspective because of the type of housing they wish to build consistently across the entire site Town Homes would not be possible within the otr1 area so overall staff recommends approval or forwarding to the County council with a recommendation of approval and I'm available for comments or questions any questions for staff anyone nope next case if the applicant is present you want to come forward please I good morning good morning uh for the record Mark wats at the law firm of cob Cole 231 North Woodland Boulevard Dand um appreciate your time this morning appreciate the time that staff has spent with us working on this um this is really just uh sort of an adjustment of some some mapping lines um if you look at the map that's in front of you now uh this parcel has a split zoning and split land use um and there was a mapping error when the narma overlay was put in place we've worked with environmental staff they agree with that uh they agree with the adjustment that's being proposed with this they simply lack the administrative authority to process it and so it has to go through as part of this overall process but as the staff report indicates this is a really um the purpose of the application is to be able to to um construct Town Homes versus single family homes on the entirety of the property as you can see looking at the map in front of you um that's already possible on all of the property to the north where you've got that um hting the mixed use Village um you know that extends on all of the the depth of the property to the north so there really just making it consistent with what the adjacent property um has both from a zoning and a land use standpoint um it's a very slight um increase with regard to the potential density and as as um Stephen indicated uh what we're proposing is about three additional units of over what would be allowed as a maximum with the current as well next steps from here would be get to get into the technical review and Analysis um for plats and everything else you know the the construction plans um Deltona is the utility provider here so that'll likely come with an annexation into Deltona as well they have the same zoning and the same land use under the jpa so um we process this through the the county um and then ultimately it'll go into the city for the development review side of things so happy to answer any questions you might have but um I really kind of think this is this is really more of a housekeeping issue to address the split Zen any questions for the applicant no I I have one question for you yes sir um just what I'm just now skimming through the bottom here so this is going to be serviced by D dayon Deltona utilities yes water sewer yes and reclaimed uh if available yes I can't remember is it currently on site or it's coming uh I don't recall if they've got re reclaimed lines out in this part of oting yet but if it is then that we'd be required to connect to it are they going to Annex into Deltona or stay yeah they they would be required to Covenant to Annex and if it's um if I think they're already adjacent so likely they'll go ahead and process that okay and that's why the the plat and everything else would be processed through Deltona if that if that occurs all right thank you any other nobody else have any questions for the applicant no all right I'll let you know if you uh can come back if we have any public participation okay thank you thank you do we have any public participation on these cases no sir no all right then we'll close the floor for public participation and we will go open for staff uh I mean uh commission discussion Andor a motion I'll be glad to make a motion please proceed the case number CPA d24 006 smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment from the O oin transitional residential future land use designation to the oin mixed use Village flu designation be approved second by Mr by Mr ma all right so I have a motion to the floor for case CPA d246 by Miss shelle and second by Mr sixma to uh find the future land use amend consistent with a comprehensive plan and for the application to the County council with a recommendation of approval to transit to the Florida Department of Commerce for expedited State review and to Belia growth management commission for certification any discussion on this motion hearing none all those in favor I I any opposed this case passes unanimously you would uh I will entertain a motion on the next case please companion case I'll be glad to make that motion I move that case number z- 24-10 rezoning from the oin transitional res oin transitional residential zoning classification to the oin mixed juuse Village zoning classification be forwarded to the County Council for for final action with a recommendation of approval second I have a motion on the floor Case z- 24-10 by Miss Eda Shelly second by Stony sixma to forward the rezoning case number z- 2410 to the County Council for a final action with a recommendation of approval any discussion on the motion hearing none we'll take a vote all those in favor say I I any opposed case passes unanimously thank you for your time this morning that's that's a good project for that area needed if I can bring the um commission's attention so on the Pud that we uh tabled uh the applicant has made it to the meeting uh I would entertain a motion to reconsider the continuance and bring this back to the floor I make that motion second so uh motion to uh bring Case P ud- 25- 011 back to the- 24- 011 back to the floor for consideration so I have a motion by Miss Shelly and a second by Mr sixma any discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I good morning Mr of all hang on before you get started let's reread that case back into the record please I just apologize um I had forgotten how efficient you guys are Yep this was the fact it was moving along give me a second to read that on the day so if I can have you read that case back into the record please yes I'll be glad to MH case number P ud- 24-11 application of Storch law firm uh attorney for hro henro LLC owners requesting a resoning for the business planned unit development and resource Corridor zoning classifications to the planned unit development PUD and resource Corridor zoning classifications and this is Mr Shams which we heard from earlier do you have anything else to add Mr Shams or can we just call the applicant up just a reinstatement of the Pud okay thank you and then we'll call up the applicant thank you good morning uh thank you very much uh for the record my name is Glen Storch and I represent henbro but also one of the partners of h brro a guy named Joe yorell uh and Joe had bought this property years ago as part of his retirement uh he unfortunately wasn't able to retire because uh because he was required to redo the entire riverv viiew uh a Riverfront um Park in Daytona Beach and so he's put all of his time and uh effort into that right now and unfortunately he forgot that there was a expiration on this and so that's and I don't tell him and the staff doesn't tell them they don't give notices out hey your things getting ready to expire so um he did not notice that and so I I you know I apologize but it's it's basically the same thing we've worked closely with staff I really do appreciate the input they've given we know that there's a different there's different uh criteria now we're going to meet those criteria as well so uh um and plus I think it's it was probably a little premature before uh but now we're seeing some real interest in this area because of the space industry so we anticipate something happening soon there any questions okay this just the continuation of what expired back in '08 correct and and again the thing that I I love about this site is this was where the stues was for years yes name from the past yes so yeah so yeah because I'm old I think we all resemble that right any uh any questions for the applicant no questions for the applicant all right thank you do we have any public comment participation rather no sir none all right so we'll close the floor for public participation and open this up for a motion or discussion I'll make a motion um that we forward this to County Council case PUD 2411 uh with approval here we go so I have a motion on the floor for p ud- 24-11 by Mr sixma second by Mr Patterson to forward the rezoning application case number p-2400 one1 to the County Council for a final action with a recommendation of approval any discussion on the motion all those in favor say say I I I opposed case passes unanimously and again thank you very much I I app really do apologize I won't make that mistake again hey Glen Glenn I wanted you to know I had to fish this out of the recycle bin for [Laughter] you all right and can we get to the final case please yes case number -2- 004 ordinance 20 2506 division 8 Storm Water Management amendments and this is uh Tad hi Samantha West hi sustainability and resilience manager for vucha County I just wanted to give a little update and history and timeline of what processes has gone through and back in March of 2024 County Council gave direction for enra to look at our storm water management regulations inra then reviewed and um reviewed the regulations that Tad had presented at four different meetings that was in April June July and December in between that they were also reviewing the liid regulations that you saw in November both the liid and these proposed store mod management ordinance changes will be going to the February 11th County Council special meeting with that I'm going to give it to Tad so he can talk about all the details thank you Samantha again Tad casbeer County engineer uh as smantha noted we uh went over quite a bit of information overall I'm not going to go through all that I'll spare you four meetings worth of uh going through all that um we'll go over the particular items that the uh committee recommended for the council's adoption uh if you have any questions about any portion of it I prefer to keep this informal so if You' got a question go ahead and ask at the appropriate time uh so we can hopefully explain some of that uh I did not get uh into a large amount of detail uh simply because there are a lot of things and I don't know what uh what you're familiar with with regard to the storm water rules so again if you have a question if I'm explaining something and you're not following what I'm doing please just let me know so all right start the present there we go okay I got I just want to make sure all right um so one of the aspects that we uh looked at were the different rules that govern uh storm water uh valuch County obviously has uh rules and requirements on that aspect of it but the state and the federal levels also have that we reviewed those different things and what we were looking for anything that might leave a loophole or Gap something uh along those lines also didn't want to re uh uh require something that may already be covered by one of the other different levels of government overall so uh the County's current storm water rules uh are outlined above we take a look at storm water we talk about two different things we talk about uh uh quality making sure that we're not uh uh creating water quality issues Downstream uh areas like uh the Indian River tamoka river areas where we have pristine water bodies we're trying to protect those as much as possible so our rules do have uh some aspects of water quality treatment overall uh but the big one the one that uh everybody has been talking about recently is uh storm water uh flooding attenuation as we refer to it in the rules uh we do have requirements on both of those elements we do try to make sure that uh water quality is uh not negatively impacting any body Downstream uh we also uh want to make sure with our flooding that uh uh we're not creating any undue conditions Downstream uh State rules on storm water very clear uh the amount of water that comes from a site historically is what's allowed to come from that site so if you have an undeveloped site and a certain amount of water runs off uh during a storm event that amount is allowed to run off whether you uh leave the property as it is or if you come in and make changes to that property they're just simply regrading all the way through to uh putting impervious surface on it so the ways that we make sure that uh we're not flooding anybody out is uh Engineers are asked to go ahead and do a storm water model of the preconstruction condition prior to a development what amount of water would come off the site both in terms of the speed with which it comes off the rate as we generally refer to it or the volume making sure that we're not sending any more water downhill uh than uh previously done and then after that we go ahead and run a model that's based on uh what would happen if the development is to occur as it's outlined uh we have different storms that we use for the pre- and post uh comparison uh in an open Basin we use a 25e 24-hour storm uh that basically equates to about an 8 in storm uh through most of Luchia County it is localized there are different uh rain amounts for different storms based on where you are not just uh across the country but also even in valuchi County a 24 25y year 24hour storm in the land is not the same arrain amount as it is in new smura beach for example uh the other criteria we take a look at uh is a closed Basin criteria if the water does not have the ability to wake make its way downhill and ultimately end up at surface water at the ocean it is considered a closed Basin closed Basin meaning that the only way that water would uh level would drop is through percolating and becoming groundwater uh overall in those locations we use a 100-year 24hour storm and uh that's about 11.3 in 115 depending again where you are in the county we use a higher storm in those cases simply because if there's any kind of issue the bottom bottom guy at the bottom of the of the uh the bowl that is the closed Basin ends up with all of that water so we want to make sure that we're doing everything we can to uh mitigate any potential issues in those closed basins the one thing to note and it it commonly gets misunderstood is that when rain falls it becomes one of two things it either become surface runoff or it becomes groundwater doesn't go anywhere else doesn't do anything else certainly during the storm there's no evaporation there's none of those types of things so uh in a closed Basin for example that water falls and uh portion of it becomes surface water goes to the bottom surface water moves quicker so it gets that bottom quicker groundwater generally follows the same uh flow of the land so to speak so it will move I'll be up more slowly through the ground to that bottom area as well so all the water in a closed Basin whether it's surface water or groundw is going to end up at that low spot in a closed Basin it just takes longer to get there and uh but either way it has the same effect overall our typical methods for mitigating for the extra water that would be created as part of a new subdivision or a development commercial site industrial site whatever it may be uh our best management practices most common one that you see everywhere is either a retention Pond stor or detention Pond uh they both generally look about the same so the different rules changes that uh enra has made recommendations on for your consideration the county council's consideration are based on making improvements to the existing storm water rules keeping in mind that the storm water rules are applied to new developments only they are not retroactive anything that's been built prior to these being enacted will not be required to meet these so any of the existing problems uh that are uh that you hear about this will not fix those all this would be looking towards is trying to prevent any future problems that may occur uh overall so the recommendations that were made were tied to originally the seasonal High groundwater uh require when uh development is created uh one of the things that you want to identify as a part of uh the existing site conditions are your seasonal high water table it uh it basically sets all of the elevations in any development overall so for example skip ahead just a second when a storm water Pond is designed it is the lowest spot on the piece of property gravity pulls water to the low spots so that's where the water is directed whether it's uh Overland or gets picked up and pulled into a uh storm water pipe system however it gets to that storm water Pond the pond is the lowest spot so establishing your design for your storm water is all based on where the water level is when you have no rain when you've got a normal condition overall we actually go ahead and conservatively use the seasonal high water table which means where would the water be during the wet season because obviously a storm water Pond's going to be most in use and needed during the storm water or the rainy season so we set that elevation is the design normal water level as circled on the exhibit from there when you model the storm the amount of water that gets collected in your storm water Pond creates what we call a Max stage when you design your road Network and your inlets that are collecting the water or in a parking lot if you collect just to have inlets those inlets are all set above that Max stage and moving uphill from there um from those you'd set your Center Line of elevation on your roads or your parking areas and then your finished floor elevations for if it's residential for your family single family homes multif family homes whatever it may be or your commercial sites are all set above that so all of it's predicated initially on that seasonal high elevation and if that that's wrong then everything else is wrong and if it's too low in a point of fact Seas You Cas typically have water levels higher than your seasonal High then the system is not going to work and so that is why that's the most important elevation overall and that's why we took a look at that aspect of of uh making adjustments on that so one of the things that uh enra recommended was to you uh have the Geotech or biologist whichever one sets that seasonal high and they take a look at different markers if the water table's below ground then the geologist would be the one setting it they'd take borings from those borings they take a look at markers in the soil because water when it sits in soil it leaves certain indicators of where that water table uh is on a regular basis It won't always indicate where it was at the highest point but that's not what seasonal High particularly means it just me where it sits seasonally during that wet wet period if the water is above grade then a biologist would be setting it because they'd be flagging the wetlands and identifying where that water level gets marked on vegetation and uh those other types of uh markers that might uh indicate that elevation so what they're recommending is the application of a safety factor to that elevation uh one of the things that we've seen uh overall and if you uh watch the meeting on Tuesday you've seen this graph this an indication of what rainfall has been like over the last uh 24 some odd years here in the city of dant we just picked it because the information was immediately available uh it will be different if you look at new smna beach Orman Beach Daytona Beach Deltona but it was consistent information and they had the information all the way back as far as 19 something 23 24 something along those lines so it gave a good comparison for what's going on with regard to uh the rainfall and the amount of rainfall is important uh you can see back in 2000 uh we had rainfall of 42 in that's across the entire year then you see we had a wet period of about three or four years in there uh to include the Hurricanes uh overall and then you can see in 2008 we had tropical storm Fay and uh and those types of things and since then it's actually been a little bit uh uh on the lower side which is a little bit below uh the red line which is the average across this time period and you can see though the last eight years that uh we've been well above with the exception of two of those years and both of those two years are pretty much right at the average so why is this important well what had happened in the past as you can see it was more fluctuation you have high points but they'd be followed by low points I me the hurricanes in 2005 you we got a lot of rain in those particular events but the biggest problem was that the previous year we'd had 75 inches of rain so that water does one of two things it either makes its way to the St John's river on the west side or on the east side It ultimately makes its way to the ocean directly and uh if uh if you don't have those periods where you dry those things out those areas particular like to closed basins the water doesn't go anywhere the levels don't drop and uh those dry periods so you can see in 2006 we only had 38 in that was the lowest over that course of time so all that water we got during those previous years had a chance to recede had a chance to drop had to had a chance to move through ground to get to either the river the ocean and uh flatten things out and then you saw see again that we had that period there when we only had a little bit above the average but almost all those years six seven years we're under the average what we're seeing now over these last eight is that not only is the fluctuation pretty much disappearing it's flattening out it's flattening out on the higher side of the average by about 6 seven Ines and as such the groundwater table doesn't have a chance to drop and that's important because that affects that seasonal high elevation overall if the amount of rainfall just keeps increasing your seasonal high back when uh uh you had periods of dry period you're not going to be at that seasonal High your seasonal high is going to keep changing it's going to keep going up the problem for our geotechnical engineers and our biologists is that the markers in the soils take a long period of time to set and establish so if your seasonal High keeps increasing the soil's uh indicator or the above ground indicators are not keeping up with that rate so one of the recommendations was to try to assist in that case to offset that issue was to add a safety factor of 6 in to whatever elevation the Geotech or the biologist set what this does then is that basically sets the pond bottoms 6 in higher okay and creates the need for at least least 6 Ines more of storage in those storm water systems this creates more volume overall some people had asked why we didn't go ahead and recommend uh increasing the design storm you the uh 25 year 24h hour why didn't we make that a 50-year 24h hour why didn't we make it 100y year 24hour uh same thing for the closed Basin is well why don't we make it a bigger storm overall the issue with that to a certain extent is and the reason we did recommend the safety Factor on the seasonal high is that when you're talking about a particular storm yes that event does occur could you get uh could you make it a bigger sure but that only occurs during that storm and if that seasonal high is off in the first place as noted it's increasing we don't know exactly how to forecast what it will be in the next few years because all we've seen is a standard incre or regular increase which is inconsistent with anything we've seen throughout the history of uh the area it uh gives us something to put that on when you run the storm and you assume that normal from our previous if you weren't adding that safety Factor you just took with the Geotech or biolog just R it would only occur during that particular storm the safety factor in this case applies to any storm that might occur as we all know you know we don't uh we don't get long periods sometimes between our rainfall events we will get them right on top of each other and if that pond hasn't recovered that starting elevation that designed normal water level elevation may not be what's there we just had a hurricane come through you have a normal rainfall come through a week later those ponds haven't had a chance to recover and get back to what they were supposed to so this in point of fact helps on a more across a larger spectrum of events overall it's always a built-in 6 in this is on top of a 1ot fo uh uh freeboard that we require on the top of all of our ponds so we already require that if your max stage is 28 that we require that any of your controls be set at 29 to make sure that we don't have issues overall and understand that there is a variability to the weather patterns and uh try to offset so so between those two we think that that accomplishes that goal and it provides for a more consistent uh solution across those uh some of the other items that we looked at were the number of borings per site again because the um seasonal high elevation is so important the more borings you do across a pwn site the better feel you've got for averaging what the uh seasonal high should be in that area and so uh we moved our code did not previously require x amount of borings so we are putting that in the water management or pardon the dot uses uh two borings per acre of the size of pond that's what we've recommended as a part of this that that be put into our code as well um curve numbers when we prepare a model for a storm water site we make certain assumptions on the amount of runoff versus the amount of uh groundwater condition um it's not a percentage but it's very similar to a percentage we set those numbers uh 0o to uh 20 100 with 100 being basically impervious water doesn't move through it so if the rainfall rain drop hits the ground 100% of that raindrop is going to fall uh going to go ahead and become surface water and flow off uh so obviously green spaces Woods uh Lawns uh PLS those types of things uh will have a better number than asphalt concrete those types of things so it would be a lower number versus a higher number the other factor that plays into how much water runs off and the curve number is the type of soil you have if you have uh beach sand water moves right through it that number is going to be really low overall and it is further factored into you know whether it's brush open space those types of things all those characteristics so we have standard tables for these types of things that we use part of the issue comes up is that there are what we call uh they're basically soils that have characteristics of well- drained soils and poorly drained soils a soils being well- drained soils doils being poorly drained soils per the uh USGS uh soils map for fuchia County where they've gone through and they've evaluated soils conditions throughout areas of the county and identified these areas are this is a Mally fine sand this is tarus this is farmton they've assigned soil types to each one of them you can see I've highlighted this is one of the tables in there and identifies a through D type soils they have a group of them that are either a d or b/d and in that case again because when you look at the numbers the difference between a b soil and a d soil on the same type so um let's see take dirt at the bottom uh so a b with a just a dirt area is going to have an 82 so uh that's not too not too great but it's not too bad either you can see in a dooil where you have more Clays mixed in or some more organic material in there things that would impede the flow of water into the ground you'd have an 89 so the number you use for that can have an effect on your storm water model and can be I won't say manipulated but I mean manipulated such that uh they may show that uh during the preconstruction condition that there's more runoff occurring than might actually be to shrink the size of their Pond or their uh Improvement so when it's a uh split soil type an a SL D or BD what uh what we put in the code is that they have to go ahead and use the uh better case in this case the uh one that holds more water on site and shows less r run off so they've got to hold the bigger difference or hold the biggest difference uh overall and then the next factor that uh played into it that we took a look at was a tail water condition so in an open Basin when the water leaves your site goes into a ditch sometimes may go into the river something along those lines we call that water level in that Downstream area tail water we need to know what elevation that tail water is because it can change how your model works the amount of water that leaves your site when it can leave your site all those different types of things so on setting a tail water usually what happens is in an engineer uh and the survey team as a part of the initial design would go out to um an area where the tail water would be occurring and they would look for markers to indicate so a lot of cases let's say it's a canal Downstream they would go down they'd find uh the first structure be it a a Culver or a head wall something along those lines and uh I'm sure you've seen these they've uh on those structures they have stain lines where you can see where the water level generally Rises to uh overall they would identify that elevation and then factor that into their calculations as the tail water condition uh there can be a lot of variability and as we talked about with regard to the seasonal High because of the amount of rainfall we've had the numbers should be just going up well we wouldn't apply just a set 6 in because the size of the Basin can have a huge effect and 6 Ines wouldn't be appropriate for a really small Basin and certainly wouldn't be really appropriate for things like the Nova Canal b19 those types of things so what we would recommend is that uh prior to setting that elevation and running their first model they engage the county staff County staff go out visit the site with them and set what would be a conservative or should be a conservative uh Downstream tailwater condition to make sure that everything is modeled as appropriately as possible instead of just they set it run a model submit it and then we've got to argue with them uh after the fact and uh it just doesn't work out very well we end up giving ground on certain things when we may shouldn't be there is a lot of professional opinion that goes into it but better to have that discussion where you don't have a timeline or something along those lines hanging over everybody's head and then there's more compromise than should occur all right and then the uh last item that was discussed and is recommended uh by enra and uh came up a little bit the other night is the storm water Pond locations on the new development uh one of the things that you see sometimes uh if you did pay attention to the meeting the other night or uh if you're from this area uh you saw it uh over on Orange Camp uh uh the Public's uh shopping center down there they had a storm water Pond that storm water Pond sits uh not quite adjacent to Orange Camp but fairly close there's a small space in between but the elevation on that pond was about 12 to 15 feet higher than that section of Orange Camp and uh we got a large amount of rain obviously through Milton it caused it sent more water to that pond than that pond was designed to handle and when we have a situation like that one of the things we typically do is we'll put in an emergency wear some type of structure that allows that water to overflow so that you don't have what happened there which is a catastrophic failure there was more water coming in it over topped and because it didn't have a controlled way to get over the top of it it cut into the grass slopes and just like you'd expect with a large amount of water it blew out one particular section of uh of that uh Pond um and uh if there had been a little bit better design with regard to that aspect considering the possibility that you might have a ridiculously large storm I'm sure the engineer would have changed their design a little bit so one of the things our code doesn't speak to a pond location or trying to deal with that type of situation so that's what we're recommending as a part of this one the pond should be located Central to the project where your property is basically uh providing space from uh the exterior edge of your property such that if the water overflows it overflows your property before it leaves your property and when it does so it doesn't do so in such a manner that it would blow out any portion of your storm water system uh that's not always possible uh this is a site here at the North End of Dand uh this is uh 17 north of where it splits from 1792 uh the Hampton hotel that area um they've also open to Culver just next to the hotel so if you've been through that area you see that um but all that area drops from the East side the right side down to Lake Gertie on the west side and it's a uh that's about a 30 to 40 foot drop in that space the storm water Pond is located on the western side of the yellow shapes there it's the long north south irregularly shaped at the North End section there and uh it's down stream side its western side the elevation change from the bottom of the pond um is about 8 to 12 feet along that side so one of the things that you would do in a situation like that you can't because the site drops so much from the East to the West there's no good way to Center that pond that wouldn't cause uh a lot more other problems so the recommendation is not that we don't allow a situation like this but there are certain things that can be done so in this case the design included called a clay core through that Downstream wall which does not allow water to seep through on that western side um the uh structure or the pond also includes an emergency overflow wear that uh is not a box structure like you see in a lot of these stor Mar ponds but it's a Concrete wear over that edge that uh is set below the elevation of the top of bank that allows that water to if it gets a catastrophic storm or something that hasn't been anticipated that water flows through that aspect and doesn't cause the same problem we have down with the Publix's pond so that's what the uh the rules recommendation is that if your pond is adjacent to your uh property line and the property adj is lower at adjacent to your pond that uh they would need to provide some controls that would be approved by the count County staff to make sure that they a catastrophic event like you saw at Publix does not occur so that's the recommendations that have been made uh if you care to go through the uh the language we can certainly do that you've been provided it but if you have any questions I know it's an exciting topic but uh you have no idea how exciting the topic is um thank you any questions for the uh for the presenter before I get started um I think one question I have is when these go through if these go through what happens with existing developments that are already in progress that don't meet or exceed these regulations uh big part of that and Pao can speak to it probably better than I can will depend on how the County Council when they approve it whether or not they'll set an effective date and uh go ahead and yell at me if I'm using the terms improperly but they'll set an effective date and generally the way it works is based on that effective date any applications that have already been received continue forward with the rules as they are are and then anything that's received after that now they have the I think there's some legal authority to go ahead and apply that to any developments where the applications have not been issued but again I'll while usually um when you make major changes like these um usually applications in process or that have already been received they're they're considered grandfathered um one of the things you can do is is time out um applications that have been issued so long as they have if if they haven't actually constructed it so for example a uh a PPL preliminary plat or construction plan is good for X number of years um and then it expires and then you have to redo it in compliance with the new standards assuming you haven't done any construction so but typically if there is you know if that an application is already underway under the then existing rules or has been issued there's a grandfather kind of Safe Harbor period um that is typical of any type of these um uh you know uh horizontal development type changes I just um yeah sure I mean i' gone through it Page by Page not that I um but you know I know this is um addressing future not the current but as you're doing or as this study um or if was going forward um is the is the current are the current developments taken in you know the impervious vers versus the perious soil so is it taken into effect that we have all the per the amount of pervious we have moving forward or is it or is it just estimating am I making sense because we've had a lot of development right and so so our perious land has probably increased quite a bit correct so as this is going through and being addressed um it is that taken in effect I guess this is just looking at the future what yeah what look well it's we're going to have more runoff because of XYZ sure when uh somebody comes in to develop a parcel they do take a look at the existing conditions not just on their parcel but on the surrounding Parcels okay so for example example um not that we covered any aspect of it but if somebody is uphill of this development that's being done you know they do take a look at what amount of water is coming off of that uphill development to their property because they're required to continue to accept that water okay and so yes they do take a look at things in the surrounding area the surrounding area is not correct but you know they're not going to look at something that isn't a direct effect to the storm water model in that particular area okay if that's kind of what you're asking so and and this is coordinated with each City or is that or is the county over each City the uh the way the the rules work is the uh um the county has per the charter a county minimum standard for certain uh aspects under the environmental storm water is one of those the county does have in chapter 50 um set requirements that have to be applied whether it's unincorporated or inside the city cities have to meet that standard they can make it tougher okay but they cannot loosen it up go below this in particular is not applying to chapter 50 this is applying to chapter 72 which is our own rule obviously we have to abide by what we have in chapter 50 okay but it's not exactly the same we do have some differences and that's what these differences are being applied to okay chapter 50 would require a change to the Charter and coordination with the cities and uh it's a lot more owner uh the goal at this point is really we can make a change to chapter 72 and start applying that to our own developments heck of a lot quicker no reason to wait let's go ahead and start applying that now okay and uh get that moving then going back through okay got you okay I'll think of some more go ahead while you're yeah okay so um let me start by saying that I have some direct experience with storm water management in the sense that um and planning in the sense from a development standpoint uh developing properties for the last 25 plus years um so I'm familiar with the process and the inner workings and the Hoops that have to be jumped through what I'm not familiar with is the uh is enra and the folks who are on that staff for enra so my question directly is going to be when this ordinance was put together and these these um suggestions I should say were uh implemented was anyone from outside of the county um say in the private sector that works in store Water Management Engineers were they brought into the mix and asked an opinion or or run through the ringer as far as question you know how this would apply sure I understand the question uh enra is a uh citizen committee it is made up of a different range of professionals it does include uh two or three engine two Engineers um uh Tyler mberg and uh Michelle huh Whit um both of which have done uh site development Tyler uh work for the Department of Transportation does storm water he does uh does projects on both roads and site uh Michelle's background was uh site civil those aspects there are others in the group that are familiar and and understand storm water and its ramifications uh but uh we did as a part of this go through them in the very first meeting uh we didn't jump right into let's make rules we spent quite a bit of time okay uh explaining how development goes through the process uh overall and the calculations and those different types of things to make sure that those that didn't have the set background but it is a it's not a staff-driven uh group it is made up of uh citizen professionals all right and I just want to say that I mean storm order management is an important aspect that needs to be addressed um what this doesn't address is the maintenance of our current storm water system and Canal systems but that's a whole different topic right I think that would that would take care of some of the other issues that that keep getting brought up but this is a good start um I did in fact reach out to um three different Engineers that I've worked with uh in the very recent uh past on different development projects and kind of go over some of these um suggested implementations and I do have a few takeaways that I'd like to throw in here uh for consideration if possible and the first one would be on page two of the ordinance which is line 59 when we're talking about the two borings and historically obviously borings are done prior to any kind of site plan layout you borrow the site kind of figure out where you're going to put your stuff so teic so once the ponds are designed they don't necessar lined up with the existing borings so now we're bringing in new borings what I would like to see is that a uh uh in this particular two borings per site uh per acre that we put there for ponds greater than one acre in size because we have plenty of ponds that are under an acre in size I think that that would be overkilled to have two borings under an acre size lot uh pond that's an opinion that's that's that's I don't mind telling you I'm professionally I would disagree with that okay part of what you find with soils borings and uh um is that they can be quite different from one spot to another when you take a look at your seasonal High uh even across an acre you can see quite a bit of variability depending on what those soils conditions are um so I'm never in favor um and I'm not applying this to the rules I did site development for for years before I came over to the county to do this type of work worked at the Department of Transportation myself and um you know you see too much variability on these smaller ponds and I wouldn't I would always require the geot uh engineer to go ahead and put two bomb borings in there they would prefer to do that making a professional judgment based on one boring is not a good way to be on a 10,000 acre Pond you would still require are you request a two too boring 10,000 acre Pond most of the time your your ponds aren't going to be that small that's 10,000 acre no uh Square sorry 10,000 square feet you want me but I'm like square feet square feet yeah 10,000 square feet Yes in most cases even then I would prefer to go ahead and have that usually it's not a 10,000 square foot pond by of itself it's usually tied to something larger if your site is only an acre overall then you might take a look at a little bit different factors and have a slightly different opinion but we do uh I believe we had left some leeway in there for uh County staff to to make some recommendations on that aspect of it so all right so this is a final document that's what you're telling me these final these are not final recommendations no they are final they are final recommendations okay so then I go back to what I then I go back to my original statement then that to me that that line in there that for Pond's greater than an acre in size would be a um a requirement for my approval on this one so we'll go on to the next page which is Page Three and let's talk about line uh 93 94 95 uh we're talking about design calculations and [Music] um it's the last sentence that uh I've got a little bit of trouble with it's so equal to the highest measured seasonal high water plus 6 in uh personal preference I'd like to see i' like to see that to read average based on this what you had up there before I think the average plus 6 in would be adequate uh I think that you adding that extra highest is going to create some um design element issues and construction issues down the road but um I'd like to hear your thoughts on that well again the the concern in this case is that the seasonal high is changing based on the rain pattern that we've had and so you're making an assumption uh that we don't have a basis for there's no such as far as I'm aware ability to project what a seasonal high will be if the rain continues to stay at the level it's at or um grow a little bit more as it uh seems to be doing over the last eight nine years so as such I think it's a gr area overall that uh I'd be more comfortable I'm more comfortable with it being tied to the highest obviously I'm more comfortable with average yeah difference of opinions yeah the problem and the concern with a lot of this and part of the reason I would recommend being conservative is once this gets constructed there's no fixing it right you know there's no coming back and changing the pond raising your entire site once your site is constructed overall and I understand and appreciate what it does um and maybe the reason that some of the people don't like flooding would actually agree with you as opposed to me is that what this would do is going to increase the the amount of fill that you're going to bring to yourself raising your side overall so certainly understand um okay um and then we go to let's go to page four of six then we're talking about the uh the ponds being internal to the project obviously I it it creates such a a sight design issue uh putting that pawn smack dab in the center and go and try to design around that sure and that's why we acknowledge that there are situations like the Hampton Insight that doesn't work that's why we did put in here that uh the the CDE is the community or the county development engineer which is the assistant County engineer she may require or allow for that to occur but then require things like a clay core or the Weir uh in those cases so we're not saying it absolutely has to be um again their sites the Hampton site is a perfect example uh even the public site to a certain extent it could be argued it you need to put the pond at that location okay we understand that but then you have to take uh modif or make make modifications to your design to prevent what has occurred right I mean the failure of the of the of obviously of those BMS and those ponds uh is is definitely of concern and and we're making we're making strides towards that but I'm also trying to keep this where it's actually we can continue building you know within a certain extent again been on that side I fully understand and I don't think that any of these are that big a problem I'm sure if you asked the developer that built the public who's now going to have to go in there and retrofit all of that who would rather paid for a clay core and a weir ahead of schedule or ahead at the time yeah well it's possibly and um for the engineers insurance company will prefer that if is the case I'm hopefully hopefully they had good insurance yes uh short of that I mean you've got a few changes here and there I mean nothing I really need to bring up at this point uh I think that we're we're making strides in the right direction um I just the language is what is what is what's uh what's troubling for me and not being a uh by admission not being a an expert in storm water management but relying on those who are smarter than I am as far as that is concerned I would like to see more input from that private sector on that before this gets approved but uh I'm willing to move this forward to the County Council and let them bring those uh comments forward and let the private sector come in and basically have their time in in front of them so anybody else have anything else to add or to say I have one question uh about the number of borings and this is just uh I'm not familiar with this type of uh construction or whatever two borings per acre if it's a 10 acre Pond would there be an inclination of someone who didn't who wanted to group them all together or is there some way to state that it has to be spread out over each acre I could say that's the that's the way the county staff would be interpreting it is that it would need to be spread over that area representative ex okay thank you okay any other questions no thank you uh do we have any public participation on this one yep here we go we got one come on up I don't have a sheet so I'm assuming you'll yeah name and address for the record please good morning Mike Woods cob Cole 231 North Wen Boulevard um here on behalf kind of myself as a citizen and and generally supportive of what's coming forward uh but I wanted to come up in part from some of the conversation with you Mr Costa and with Tad um sometimes you guys have heard me talk about how our regulations come forward and it's usually driven by never again rather than by what we want to see and and that's okay and I don't think that's what's happening here because these regulations were already underway well before the Hurricanes kind of came through it's just the Hurricanes now have shown us kind of the worst case scenario and we can kind of take input from that um most of what you is being adopted here and also with the liid standards and that's really why I'm coming up here because I want you to consider how these are going to be working with the new liid standards that have come before you and will be coming in front of the County Council because I think in conjunction it works out really well and I think we'll probably go to resolve some of your concerns about an overreach or an overstep but you guys have a pretty big role in this too moving forward because even on this your regulation right whether it's the average or the mean High reasonable experts can debate about that and then the 6 inch it probably could have been eight and that would have been passable could have been four and that's all okay and kind of built into it when we're talking about the context what what Tad provided here about these regulations that context is the most critical part because we're trying to remember okay what were we thinking about what was really the underlying thought process for what that final number is in the code but the problem that we sometimes have is um well one we will look back at this time and there may be a consideration that these regulations are in direct response to the hurricanes and they're not because even as bad as the hurricane impacts have been per AG wise overall total properties very low and um the projects that have been most recently designed did fairly well not withstanding the blowout of certain projects but what ends up happening often times with these regs is that 5 years from now 10 years from now um we kind of forget the nuance and the why and then we act with a lot of rigidity right the the the numbers in there for a reason and when someone comes in asking for variance or from relief it's like it's a way to the developer well there's a good reason for it but here we've just kind of talked about that there's that basic information now I bring up the L because I feel liid is trying to be responsive to that we've got a lot of rigid regulations that when they're kind of been added together and they're all been very good it's almost like a Tetris block coming down and you get these gaps and the LI standards coming forward kind of help smooth that out and gives a more fluidity you know no pun intended there for some of our regulations um but kind of the the adage of once taxes go up they never come down regulations get added and they never get with I we can go into a you know we may find this is an aberration of rain I don't necessarily think that's the case but if we're back into drought conditions it's not like we're going to revoke that back because again how dare you you're taking away it's a giveway to the development um and even in these kind of conditions the LI the LI standards tell you to put your storm water ponds in the low depressional area what's that conflict that's going to be when that low depressional area is on the edge now I think they've got a resolution it's about the engineering and stuff but all I'm trying to say here and I again I'm in support of these regulations as they are drafted here is remember your role some of you have been here since the' 04 hurricanes and we had other regulations and our closed and open basins came in but when a variance comes up or or staff is trying to come up with a better project and the regulations are kind of grinding against themselves that's where that role of this organization this body kind of comes in to support that variance and the best analogy I can kind of give you is I don't know if You' ever seen there's a there's a YouTube channel where folks that are driving like U-Hauls that don't normally drive it they hit the low hanging Bridge they kind of get stuck and the best Simple Solution when you kind of finding that is you let the air pressure out of the tires and it low lowers it down when it's a regulatory kind of context often times we have felt in the past that there's no way that that the tire pressure cannot be changed so you're either told to go reconstruct the entire vehicle or just chop off the roof and move forward you can get under that pass but you've got a truck that now no longer has a roof and and nobody's nobody's happy with it so I I think with these regulations here they serve a good purpose I look forward to seeing with the liid and trying to take what we have and then making sure that we don't just look at the the the elements in the code specifically but the reason behind it to come to a better project and I think we're pivoting towards that um and I just you know for my two cents I think this is in keeping with that and I feel much more comfortable some of those concerns I would otherwise have with you I think we've got the tide is moving in the right direction to be able to resolve that properly so thank you for your time I appreciate it thank you any other public comments no all right no uh all right any other questions for staff before we close the floor uh Mr chair just a a point of procedure so this is going to a special meeting on February 11th 2025 at 4M it is going to be heard together with the two uh low impact development or Li ordinances because um as you know Mike pointed out they're they're working together and they've been in you know in development for I don't know how many months if not if not a year um one of the things uh that we're going to do is is you know leave it leave this particular ordinance kind of a little bit more open than you know for discussion so you know anyone can attend if they have you know any additional um uh recommend recommendations or additional comments it's going to be on these two particular sections 72 7 28 and 29 uh 778 and and 779 so you know those two sections um can be what's what's discussed can't go outside of that cuz that's becomes a noticing issue but can you give that date one more time on the special meeting please here it's February 11th 2025 that's prior to our next meeting yes it's going to be at 4 pm here in the um audit so what if if I hear did I just understood you correctly this this ordinance as it's currently written then is still fluid it's not yes yes uh within those two sections uh 72 778 and 72779 um uh you know anyone can show up and the County Council it's a special meeting they can act they can make any amendments and changes okay in that case then I have a different perspective all right um thank you anyone else all right so we're going to close the floor for public participation and open the floor for staff discussion Andor motion so before we start with a motion let me just say from a discussion standpoint that uh my initial intent here was to vote no on this specifically because I I I think it still needs a little bit of tweaking here and there I'd like to see more um private sector participation but now knowing that we've got a special meeting going through I don't have I have no problem moving this forward to get it to that meeting and then putting that word out that so that the private sector then has the opportunity to go in there and uh voice their um their concerns Andor improvements to what's on here I think that we're in making steps strides in the right direction um I just didn't want to see a a big knee-jerk reaction to the situation that occurred uh but more of a uh methodical and educated uh reaction and with that I'll take either a motion or comments I'll be glad to make a motion please go ahead I move that the pdrc forward ordinance 2025 -06 to the County council with a recommendation of approval uh let me back the that is it 20 254 ordinance number 205- okay thank you all right and a second so we have a motion on the floor from Miss EA Shelly and a second from Mr Patterson on uh ordinance number 25-06 which is actually case number0 0-25 d04 any discussion on the motion all those in favor I all those opposed osed motion passes unanimously all right that concludes the items on the agenda we have any other public items no sir do we have any staff comments no sir any commission comments um yes ma'am I have a couple uh just that um I I really I had actually more things missing from my packet once I saw the agenda that this is just never occurred I'm not pointing fingers but just um I don't know if it's Theos whatever but I had several items missing from my packet and also uh No Agenda in my packet so I was therefore not able to even realize those items were missing and um I just hope we can find some way to correct this and and the post office utterly destroyed half of it too it was torn apart and P together and it came really late as well I only got it uh Tuesday if I can piggyback on that one yes my envelope was actually didn't have any tape so the pages were actually sticking out of the sides of the envelope perhaps Mine mine's the same way same way perhaps uh maybe we should go to the uh the tyx type envelopes that are a little bit stronger than just the standard paper ones if we're going to mail if we're going to if we're going to continue mailing uh they make them in a larger size as well I think this was a rather uh large package um I know that you didn't you did not receive your package at all probably it was they probably destroyed through the mail system itself and and they didn't even deliver bother to deliver in your an empty envelope but uh yeah that I think that was problematic and I know that we all got emails or we should have gotten an email basically saying it was available online uh that's not the same it's not the same but it was an opportunity to swalk and I'm sure that they would staff would have made some kind of exception and either brought you one out or or REM mailed it so uh just that was a comment on our exellent point Y anybody else no uh I do have one I'm hoping that that uh that our chair will be back next month this is uh twice two times in a row and while I'm getting better at it I'm not still not comfortable with it so I hope that he uh speedy recovery for him that he's back here next month you did a fine job thank you um any press and citizen comments no well with that we are adjourned e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e for e e e e e e for e for e --------- ##VIDEO ID:Ld8FldBJZUc## phones and electronic devices and stand and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all if we could have the roll call please good morning good Miss Craig here Mr sixma here miss Shelly here Mr Costa here Mr Mills is out today and Mr Patterson he is present he's present thank you all right we have uh minutes from uh November 21st of 2024 and December 19th 2024 we've all had a chance to review them if I can get a uh any corrections or changes if not I'll entertain a motions I'll make a motion to approve please continue so we have a motion on both November and December and set the motion as well for both so I have a motion by Miss Shelly uh e Shelly and a second by Miss Craig all those in favor I I all opposed okay motion the minutes pass all right we have chair comments um first off I'd like to say I am filling in for the chair so today's might go a little sketchy uh so please bear with me um on the chair comments if you uh want to speak on any of the cases uh for or against that were being heard today please fill out a card at the back of the room and uh hand it to Yolanda right over here and you will be called up at the appropriate time also we have a 3-minute time limit uh for each speaker on each particular case and with that we move to uh Mr Storia for legal comment thank you Mr chair uh this is uh information for members of the public as well as for applicants that Decisions by this body on special exception cases and cases which rezone Real Property from one classification to another pursu to the zoning ordinance are recommendations only to the County Council and do not constitute a final hearing new evidence may be introduced at the County Council public hearing decisions on variances made by this body constitute final action subject to an appeal to the County Council and what this means is that no new evidence may be presented at the time of the County Council public hearing on the appeal an grieved B party that appeals such a decision is confined to the record made before this body hearings by this body on rezonings special exceptions and variances are Quasi judicial in nature meaning that this body is acting more like a court and must take into account all oral written or demonstrative evidence presented their decisions on these cases must be based on competent substantial evidence in the record and competent substantial evidence has been defined as that evidence a reasonal mind would accept the sport conclusion I'd like to add that for your variance decisions you need a minimum of four regardless of the makeup so there's five current city uh present members um so any variance approvals needs four out of five um and thank you Mr chair four out of five correct and the applicants each have an option to with uh to continue if they so choose thank you uh moving on to expar Communications if anyone on the commit would like to uh had any conversations would you please acknowledge now we'll start to my immediate right with Miss Craig none none none I did have uh conversations with the applicant on case v- 25009 also with the applicant on case s-25 d004 and on case o- 25-4 I initiated contact with a couple of um experts in the field of storm water that's it then moving on so we've got a couple cases that need to be um continued or withdrawn on I believe these are all continuations and they are case v-2500 6 v- 25- 007 v- 25- 008 eight four four is under old business that's old business yeah so we have three to be continued triple 06 or6 007 and88 is we show that under new business oh we got moved okay yeah they got moved okay I'll make a motion then that we is till the next meeting continue next meeting um Trish yes sir we're asking to continue till February 20th February 20 20th okay make a motion that case v 25006 uh Case b257 Case b258 get continue to the February 20th you say yes 20th February 20th meeting second so I have a motion to continue cases v256 v257 v258 by Mr sixma second by um Miss EA Shelly all those in favor I I all those opposed none we move in on to Old business and um Michelle would you read the uh that case into the record please yes sir case number v- 25-4 uh application of cob Cole agents for the owner requesting a variance to the minimum yard requirements on transitional agriculture A3 zoned property and this one is Mr Harris I believe yes good morning good morning this case was continue from the December plrc hearing the applicant is seeking variances to allow a block Barn to remain in its current location variance one is to reduce the front yard from 40t to 30 feet variance two is to reduce the side yard from 25 ft to 7 feet um it is a 3.69 acre parcel in a daon Springs area the previous owners permitted a house and an agaz block bar the current owner purchased the property and combine 15 lots to produce one buildable site as part of the Lan exempt unrecorded subdivision subdivision the property was later subdivided with the approval of the exempt unrecorded subdivision l number two this separated the house which is now on the parcel to the west and the subject blockb on the property the owner is using the block Barn as a single family residence and did not obtain building permits the property borders a heavily treed parcer on the Southeastern portion of the site and has a 60ft rway along the southern boundary the parcel is own transitional Agriculture and has a future land use designation of rural which is subject to setbacks of 40 feet for the front yard and 25 ft for the side yard staff recommendation is to approve V variance requests one and two as it meets three of the five criteria I'm available for any questions you may have any questions for staff seeing none uh is the applicant present good morning good morning for the record Jessica gawa Copco Law Firm one Daytona Boulevard Daytona Beach Florida I have a PowerPoint I'm not going to go in over it in depth but we'll have it for questions um like Mr Harris said the property is in the A3 zoning District um we're looking at VAR uh variances to setbacks just to memorialize the existing structure that's been there um it's kind of a fun adaptive reuse of an existing Barn you know it was exempt from permitting they want to use it as residents we were asked to come through and help them um go through and get it fully permitted and recognized um so this is the start of the process we would go through with County staff on any permitting and building requirements after this um you can see the outline of the property here um like it was noted a lot of lots were combined into this overall you've got some covered stalls in the rear for um livestock horses we did reach out to the property owner to the east um and talk to them about the variance request I don't believe they are here today we went through kind of what we're requesting this is the overall survey you can see all of the former lots that existed um the pole barn has been in place and we do want to point out that in terms of impact to adjacent owners the nearest Residence um is what you see see here on the screen which is actually to the I'm going to say west of the screen I don't know where to North is and it's about 450 ft away and so the um property directly adjacent to it where we've reached out and talk to the owners there's no residence there um and then there's a road beside that as well before you hop over to the next impacted area um so we're requesting this variant so we can go through the permitting process to get this recognized um as a a fund conversion of a former Barn that's no longer used into a residence and we're here for any questions any questions for the applicant I I have a couple for you um so reading this so they bought this in 2011 so that's been used as a resident since 11 or prior to um no I think this current owner um is the one who converted to converted to Residents what precipitated the um the variance request was what started the ball rolling we came in later and I'll defer to staff of my understanding is she came in about a potential RightWay vacation adjacent to the property and this was noted as an issue okay and that that's triggered that okay um and that is the only dwelling so it's not an Adu it's actually the main dwelling for the whole property correct the other three buildings that we're looking at look like to be uh metal barns those are just covered stalls covered stalls okay all right thank you um we'll see if we have any uh particip any public participation and call you up afterwards thank you do we have any public participation on this case no sir no seeing none um we'll move on to um commission comments Andor motion I will make a motion for approval on case v254 can you turn your mic on Stoney please oh he actually it is on you hear that now I can okay I I'll make a motion for approval on case b254 uh for the two variances and I guess that's all it was the two variances yep second so we have a motion on case v- 25004 and second uh my e Shelly all those in favor first off any discussion no discussion on the motion no all those in favor I I any opposed yeah no motion passes unanimously moving on to new business if you would read the next case which is 25009 please yes case number v- 25-9 a variance to the accessory dwelling unit Adu regulations on Prime agriculture A1 zoned property and this one is also Mr Harris yes the applicant is Seeking a variance to convert an existing twostory 16 86t primary residence into an accessory dwelling unit and build a new 2400t primary residence the variance is to allow the accessory dwelling unit to be greater than 50% of the size of the principal structure the property is 10.12 acres in the new smina Beach area it is A1 zoning the property is vested through an unrecorded exemp subdivision called Heiser number two it is currently developed with a 1686 ft² single family residence a storage shed a frame shed a covered Deb and two pole bars the proposed 2400 excuse me the proposed 2400 ft principal residence allows a maximum Adu size of 1200 ft but the existing 1686 foot single family residence that is to be converted exceeds this limit by 486 ft this is 70% of the living area of the principal structure staff recommendation is to deny variance requests as it fails to meet three of the five criteria should the pdrc find that the applicant has provided competent substantial evidence the following conditions have been provided for consideration condition one the variance is limited to the size of the proposed Adu as shown on the variant site plan number two the applicant should apply for a change of use with the pyramid Center to convert the principal structure to an Adu and third the accessory dwelling unit must adhere to the same setback requirements as the principal detach single family dwelling unit I'm available for any questions you may have any questions for staff I do have one um just to clarify so the 50% Mark he'd have to build a what a 3,000 foot house correct in order to avoid the whole variance process correct okay thank you go ahead could you please use your mic sorry I thought it was on um has to meet the setbacks that was one of the conditions correct does it currently meet the setbacks no it does not okay thank you so let's go back to that one then so are you saying that the existing residents does not currently meet the setbacks Oh I thought she was asking about the proposed drug any proposed building needs to meet the setbacks currently does it currently does there was a comment okay thank you and just to clarify so this particular what is currently shown is a primary residence once the SEC the second residence is built this one then converts to Adu that's what we're talking about all right thank you any other questions for staff is the applicant present please come up state your name and address for the [Music] record name is William Heiser uh I live at 33113 Modina away in Venetian Bay in new Samara Beach um the residents that we're looking at now uh my dream was always to to have some acreage you know when I retired I was with the Bri County Sheriff's Office in the K9 unit for 20 years and um so I was uh my family and I were um um really excited when we found this piece of property because it sits right next to the reserve the Deep Creek Reserve so um we have horses that we keep on that property and so I know I have three minutes here so the the residents the on paper says it's 1,600 you have all the time you need that's for you have all time you need to speak three minutes here so I'm trying goe um so the residence uh actually says on in a piece of paper that it's 1687 Square fet um that includes the Loft upstairs The Loft upstairs is a A-Frame house so it's um a deep house so when you go up to the the stairs when you go up there you actually only have uh I'd say two feet on either side of you that you can walk down the rest of it the A-frame I mean there's really nothing you can do up there except to um put Christmas decorations and you know your storage up there it also has a added on uh um laundry room which is about another 100 square feet so the actual living space is about 1,80 ft I'm a happily married guy but when you put my wife and myself in a th foot house I don't know how much uh I'll last at that but um so um so I was asking to build another home yeah well that's what I'm asking you for I'm asking you for separate house right now um and yeah it's it's just out about a th000 square fet so we're not looking you know I'm looking to put something and it was 2400 Square fet by the time I put Garage on it and and patio out back and whatnot it was actually be 4,100 square ft so I'm trying to keep it at around 2400 Square ft um so I I I'm asking that that uh you'll you'll give me some mercy and and understand and maybe um allow me to do that any any questions for the applicant I I have a couple for you if you don't mind uh first off you mentioned that your current address is in ventian Bay so would this property be your primary residence once the if this passes and you're allowed to build that other house yes so that's what we're doing we're going to build a house and move there I don't know if you know about venician Bay but it was a nice quiet beautiful little Community here but behind us they're putting up 750 homes now and traffic and um it's just not I'm aware um the other question is with this secondary with this this now existing structure becoming an Adu what's the intended purpose are you planning on Renning this out being that you're up against a preserve is this like a temporary uh day trip or rental uh what's a no rental I I I don't want anybody in my house I I'm kind of anal about how I keep my property and stuff so that would actually be my my children and Grand children are up in South Carolina and North Carolina so it would be um you know a week when they come down to visit us Christmas time during the holidays and during the summer that they'd have somewhere to go other than a tent that I'm going to have out back for them if if we don't get it okay and then uh lastly you did you you did see that the the three conditions should this be approved that was listed by the by staff on the back and you're okay with those three conditions yes sir okay um let's see we have any public comments if not uh we'll move on from there you may have a seat now thank you thank you thank you any public comments on this case no sir I have a comment we have a comment go ahead I would like to commend you on being uh being sensible about the size of the property and not feeling like you have to push the limit as far as the size that you can go so I commend you on that any public comment no no public comment with that we'll close the floor for public comment and we'll open it up for discussion Andor a motion I'll be glad to make a motion please proceed I move that case number v-2 5- 009 a variant be approved subject to the three staff conditions second all right so on I have a motion on case v-2500 z9 to approve Varian the variance with the three staff recommended condition by um e shell and second by Stony sixma um any discussion on the motion all those in favor I I I all opposed passes unanimously thank you thank you Mr Heiser and now we'll move on to the next case case number v- 25-11 variances to the minimum yard requirements the rural agricultural estate R A classification and this one is um Mr Shams hi good morning um morning Steve jams with Planning and Development so this site is developed with a single family home that was built in 1985 in 1992 multiple accessory structures were built without permits and these included a detached garage a storage shed and a canopy the garage was later expanded uh the property was sold to the current owners last December the applicant is requesting after theact variances for an unpermitted detached garage and a canopy structure and the southwest corner of the site uh there is a code violation for these unpermitted structures so um gaining the variances would allow them to come into compliance variance one is to reduce the South rear yard from 45 ft to 7.2 ft for the detached garage variance two would reduce the Western sidey yard from 25 ft to 0 feet for the garage and variance three would reduce the western side yard from 5T to 4T for the canopy uh overall staff recommends approval as the variances meet three to five criteria we do recommend two conditions that the variances are limited to the size and location of the structures and that the applicant must apply for building permits within 90 days of variance approval there was one letter of opposition that's been been provided to you this is from the most affected property owner on the western side and he has requested that the garage be reduced back to the original construction and that the expansion be removed I'm available for commare question any questions for staff I have a question please um what are what are the directions on the the scale what we have in front of us is this North at the top yes ma'am Southeast okay yes thank you and we have two staff recommended conditions I have anybody other questions for staff I have one question um curious on variance two the um the approval from 25 to 0t which would be uh that is the garage extension itself correct yes so you say it meets three of the five yes sir and that's the one that we have the letter of opposition against correct correct now that extension did it require a permit uh yes it would was it permitted no sir so this would take this variance would then take care of that permitting process as well well it would allow the the garage to be permitted as it is today they could move forward to permitting the garage itself or the extension or both both both okay so neither the garage nor the extension are permitted okay all right any other questions for staff nope and is the applicant present please come up state your name and address for the record Robert Keller for the record any questions uh your address please um so originally the property was under Richard bodon uh that's where the application was initially made where I worked with Steven chams uh when that application was put forth he's my grandfather-in-law uh we went under contract and we sent sold to John and Myra okay and since selling to John and Myra um the application has moved forth the the structure what you'll probably have questions with the garage extension M um which a buts to that zero um it's really independent of the concrete block they are attached but the concrete block it garage is what is of most value in this um particular situation so the extension is basically just a lean to it is yes okay that's correct all right um any questions for the applicant we do have one letter of opposition have you had a chance to review that one I have not looked at the letter of opposition I have spoken with you have spoken to Mr uh laflor yes Bruce correct and uh it seems like we're in agreement on on the concrete block garage staying um I believe he may be in disagreement with the other items well let me read you the let me read this excerpt so he says however I am adamantly opposed to any variance allowing the plywood addition to the block garage constructed after 2006 um do you have any issues with potentially removing that or the new owners I should say no I I don't think that would be an issue okay all right uh we'll see if we have any public participation if we do we'll call you back up give you a chance to rebuttal thank you for your time yep do we have any public participation on this one no sir y we have a gentleman would like to speak okay come on up uh state your name and address for the record and if you would please afterwards fill out the form at the back of the room and hand it to Yolanda thank you I'm Bruce leer 4200 Falling Leaf Drive okay the uh a butter to the West I'm most affected by all of these variances uh in agreement with Mr Keller I'm not objecting to the concrete block garage it's only fair that that be allowed to stay since it was 2002 before our properties were subdivided however all the other apperance is there that garage extension which is not just a lead to it's completely enclosed it actually encroaches on my property by a half a foot I have a survey here if you're interested in seeing it it's impossible to even access the outside of it without trespassing on my property uh I'm adamantly opposed to that to the metal shed and the canopy roof which is in disrepair and with all the Hurricanes we have I'm concerned about it flying off and damaging my property or people on my property it's a two8 of property there's plenty of room there there's no reason why all these buildings have to be built right on my property line so basically I'm not in I'm not against the concrete block garage stand but all the other bu buildings there there's also a propane tank that's 5 ft from the property line that wasn't permitted and isn't to code zoning these have all been cited by Code Compliance five months ago and uh they're telling me that it's all going to have to be permitted I don't see how it could be permitted because none of it is to code so the any questions for uh for this gentleman no I I have one comment to make so this so if the variances go through any of these go through at all it's going to trigger the building permit process so any of these that are um not to code will be bared out during that permitting process and either would have to be replaced repaired or or removed so no I like Assurance of that I I also don't think it's fair that the new owner in the last month is being saddled with this MH the current owner who built all of these know what the code was and proceeded to do it without permits or illegally so that's where I stand okay thank you thank you I'll give the applicant an opportunity to rebottle that uh so I think we're in agreement on the concrete block garage likely being fine uh the as as far as permits go and we'd prefer to keep any structure that we could presuming it would also be set in place and we'd have to then you know double permit that's outside yeah the permitting is outside our purview so that's yeah it it wouldn't there there's not a lot of value in the garage extension okay so you would you wouldn't be opposed as to removing that as part of the as part of the uh conditions I don't I believe yeah that's not going to be an issue yes please um what's the purpose of the canopy um it's like a shed covering for for maybe parking a vehicle underneath is it currently being used yes any other questions for the applicant no no further questions thank you all right then uh we'll there's no other comments from the public we'll close the floor for public participation and uh open this up for staff um discussion and or a motion any comments yes excuse me I'm I'm I am opposed and we be voting no if we're including all of this on variance 2 the Z going to zero um and I'm also very concerned about variant three going that foot I know foot's a foot but looking at the property line that is extremely close when it could be um so that one I'm iffy on but I'm definitely uh prepared to vote no on all three of these together anyone else what what's that ex did I hear what the extension was made of plywood plywood okay so the the so the applicant saying that they would have no problem uh as part of a condition is to remove that garage extension which is also what the um Mr laflor um adamant opposition was to MH uh the condition of the canopy and the shed themselves will be borne out during the permitting process if I'm if I'm misstating something please correct me but I think that's that is uh basically the variances then allow this to go into the permitting process and the permitting is going to have to go out it's have to meet current code so if they're not up to current code they will either have to be repaired replaced or removed yeah I don't I personally I don't have a a big issue with the one foot on variance 3 um I'm glad that the variance to basically falls off the table with both the applicant and the opposition agreeing that by the removal that variance kind of goes away and so we're really just dealing with variances one and three um so if you guys want to take another look at that if you look at it from that perspective Mr chair just we have to vote no we do have to vote on correct we a clarification if you remove variance 2 variance 2 relates to the concrete block garage plus the garage extension Plus the extension if you remove the extension if you don't grant that uh you would still be need to Grant a variance for the concrete block garage because it's an excess of 500 square ft and needs to meet the principal setback so that variance too would go from 0t to 12.3 ft okay to accommodate the concrete existing concrete BL garage only they would have to demolish the extension the extension would have to go down but the concrete garage goes down the variance would be from 25 ft to 12.3 for the concrete block garage for the concrete garage only that's pretty clear as mud yeah all right so let's kick this around where are we at anybody is um a question here also um when we did the roll call it was made mention that Mr Patterson was here is he listening to the meeting is he able to vote on this because currently there's there's only four four of us up here it' have to be a unanimous or they could have to do a continuation yep that's why I'm trying to get a feel for where we are then give the applicant that option I'll be I am I'm not in favor I'm very I'm concerned learned on all three uh no not on all three on the western sidey yard issues if they make the the variance uh I mean the corrections on on variance two I would be fine with it take the extension off and what not but so variance two would would be would one of the conditions would be on variance two that they remove the garage extension uh and then variance to would be an approval from 25 ft to 12.3 ft correct I understand that okay MH I understand so are we in agreement with that yes yes okay I'm not about all right so we can add that as a condition and then on variance one any issues with that no and variance three yes you have an issue with that with a one foot with the one foot variance yes I'm also I I've gotten lost now as i' feel much better if I had a picture of the canopy of what was there it just says three canopy okay is it like a pole barn is it a solid building is it but if it doesn't meet code it had to be torn down anyway correct permitting yeah during the permitting process it will but if we approve the variance wouldn't it be allowed to go in the same place in the same location yes yes which I'm opposed to okayi all right um hearing that um I'm addressing the applicant now is that U you need a you need for majority or ask for a continuation to come back when we have a full full commission that's your choice at this point in time before we call for a vote Yes you may come up okay um so e Edith correct yes thank you Edith um so your issue is or you have a issue with the four foot variant asking for the extra food on the canopy I believe there's I don't know if it's included I have to picture had an aerial included in the application on the yeah no no it's okay I I believe you no sure that it was a a strange uh delivery of our packet it's like a it's like a pole barn Ste it's a pole barn so it's totally open it's yes it is except for the roof yes there is only a steel it's a steel right to cover cars it looks like for extra paring yes yes no sides okay strictly a pole barn no walls no walls you don't do you have a picture of it at all with you let me see yeah I would love to see a picture of it yeah I mean it's not going to be a great picture because it's an aerial and it's further away sure but it's still gives um it would be helpful for your reference because I understand because you have it there because of the driveway and for extra parking I understand all that see oh here's my application H um and and then if we you mind if I bring it up it's very difficult it's not going to help go to there and she'll put it up so we can all see it's tiny um okay so I I would be willing to I definitely oppose to the is it it totally disappeared oh she's okay I thought I did it I don't know it up there I can't fix this it's a virus I'm to the garage extension that's definitely out for me the canopy reason if it indeed is the pole barn look and open m uh I would approve but only that and not for Replacements I think that's reasonable I mean it would have to be that they can't extend it they can't go closer I mean I would not not agree to anything like that making it bigger or incl it because that makes a difference too I think there's not much detailing see on yeah I know I the I could think of though um yeah that didn't help if I could blow I told you it's smart Better Eyes you tell me oh my gosh okay microscope eyes for that you can well no I can't see I can see it's it's see through it yes I can see it's that you go through it I don't know that there's not a wall on the western side but I know it's any wall would be removed uh because I can guarantee you it is a pull barn with those sides okay can I uh get you to sign that for me up here just [Laughter] kidding I have a notary here I'll remove it you you can make it a condition of the variance that it remain a pole barn and unenclosed by thank you okay because it is just a foot so I understand that any other questions for the applicant no no you may seat you may be seated thank you for your time all right we're back to us and discussion on this case um or a motion and I think that we could take these uh variances one at a time if you like I think uh since we've got conditions individually yep so whoever would like to start that um so is am I hearing you say that we have the option to do them one at a time or okay um then I will make a motion case number and I know um case number v- 25-11 variance one be [Music] approved uh variance two be denied and variance three be subject to a condition that the canopy uh that it remain open and that be a condition of the variance does that work uh Varian two should be changed because Varian one and two combined so variance two should be changed to reduce the western side yard from 25 ft to 12.3 ft only for the oh that I wrote that over there okay um and then for variance three um uh that should be uh a pole barn that remain open and unenclosed un open and un you want to reread that again canopy yeah a canopy open canopy that's that's unenclosed okay canopy okay try it one more time all right case number v- 25-11 variance that we approve variance one as is as is that uh variance to the western side yard goes from 255 to 12.3 correct mhm for the concrete G I like all this positive feedback thank you and that variance three uh re that will'll approve that variance with the condition that the pole barn stay open remain open I've got it okay the condition that the canopy pole barn remain open and unenclosed perfect second all right let me see if I can follow this correctly so and with the and we still have conditions uh two conditions by staff yes subject to the staff conditions you second that as well M all right so let's try this from the top so k-25 d011 we have a motion uh by Miss Shelly and a second by Mr sixma to um yes go ahead to approve variance number one as is variance number two to approve it with the reduction of the western side yard from 25 ft to 12.3 ft for the concrete garage only and the removal of the canop the extension garage extension and on variance number three uh approve it with the condition that it remain an open canopy or open structure pole bar canopy only open and unenclosed open and unenclosed perfect okay did I cover that all yes sir all right if there's no further discussion we'll go for a vote one one question yes ma'am on variance two do we need to mention removal of the garage extension I believe I just did y I did yeah did that go on the record yes yes uh they would have to remove it because you're not they would be in violation it will be in violation because we're already reducing the setback yes okay we're good MH all right so we'll call this to a vote then all those in favor I I I any opposed motion passes thank you for your time a tough one yeah all right next case please uh 25 case number fe- 25-12 variance to the minimum yard requirements in the transitional agriculture A3 zoning classification and this one is Mr Shams as well hi good morning again so the site is currently developed with a 2537 ft home an inground pool detached garage carport and two canopies the pool was constructed in 2004 and the current owner purchased a property in 2017 uh he requires consistent access to his pool year round for therapy treatments it needs to be protected from direct sunlight and inclement weather he is proposing to construct an 1170 ft accessory structure around the pool this structure would have a solid roof and walls with sliding glass doors um the pool is currently 6.8 ft from the rear property line which is consistent with the zoning ordinance requirements but constructing the proposed structure around the pool would place it within the rear yard due to its size it would need to meet principal setbacks and A3 requires a 40ft rear yard so the applicant is requesting a very variant to reduce the rear yard from 40 ft to 6.8 ft uh overall staff recommends approval as it meets 3 to five criteria I'm available for comment or question any questions for staff um I do have a question let me can you rephrase that so the pool itself being 6 foot off the property line is acceptable yes sir but the as soon as the put the enclosed structure yes if it was a screen room would it also be subject to 40 ft uh no sir if if it was a like a pool enclosure it would be fine but he wants to put a physical building around the pool which is a different an enclosed pool basically yes sir okay and that requires the 40 foot hence the variance yes sir okay all right any other any questions for staff no is the applicant pres please come up please state your name and address for the record morning U my name is Terry Meyers uh my address is 5731 Walter Street da on Springs you've heard the staff uh comments do you have anything you'd like to add um no I have a couple pictures I also have a letter from my VA uh stating that I need the aqua and hydrotherapy for my disability uh so I have that and it just the thing is that I know four people that have replaced their screens four times this year sure it just went through the 80 mph you know it's like that's why I'm going with the hard cover so I can insulate it and keep it and I'm going be running 100% solar on everything on that so it's going to be you know very grain I have a very wooded lot and it's a very NE building if you want to see a few pictures if you turn those in you know you won't get those back good that's fine okay if you would give those to Yolanda at the other end please are the uh the contractors that I contracted they put up the building and I I assumed they were getting permits and they just ghosted me they did not get back to me so I'm going through the process because I feel it needs to be done okay and and I said the building has already been through an 80 Mile and 100 mile winds already so really you know I'm I'm working on it now because I can't do a lot so I you know I'm at the mercy of some predatory contractor so but I'm getting it there you know I have all the you know so those pictures will depict some of you know I got some of the windows you know but everything is all um is either uh lexan or it's uh safety glass all the windows are in accordance to that and I do um I'm a I work on movies I'm a scenic painter po Builder so I have some other pieces of movie stuff was it me no okay we're having it's all day we've got some we've got some Gremlins in the machine today I look too hard so uh you know I'll have a few of those things in it but then this way I can continue with my therapy with out uh in my retirement without uh I have a quick question for you after seeing these pictures so the construction has begun sir partially begun it looks like yes okay and so it's stopped now for this variance yes sir okay I I have everything sitting there on site um okay I have pictures of the uh of the Footers were put in everything was put in rebar all that stuff I have that I have the pictures of all that 14inch Footers everything done you know oop sorry to code so and if I could I'm sorry I have so many unorganized here we are uh so this is a permitted structure correct pardon me permitted structure oh yes yes sir here is the I have pictures of the Footers if I can just no that's good yeah we're good it has all you know we everything was by code and the building is sorry I'm talking my hands uh but the building with the engineer and all the prints and all that stuff are in my folder and you know everything's all engineered and all that and then when it came like why don't I have a permit and then they wouldn't even answer my phone call anymore so we're yeah we're just approving the setback the variant for the setback itself um because the building is going through the permitting process do we have any other questions for the applicant no thank you thank you so much do we have any public participation on this case no sir no we do not motion yep we'll close the floor and open up for discussion Andor a motion uh I move that we approve case number v- 25-12 variance to the minimum yard requirements in the transitional agricultural A3 zoning classification and uh yes that's my motion okay so I have a motion to approve case v- 25- 012 um to reduce the um the Eastern yard from 40 feet to 6.8 ft by Miss EA shell and a second by Stony sixma any discussion on the motion all those in favor I I any opposed case passes thank you thank you for your service as well next case please yes sir got it okay I got it thank you case number s- 25-4 time extension for a special exception for temporary campsites on Prime agriculture A1 zoned property and This one belongs to Miss Smith hello good morning this is an existing special exemption for temporary campsites for uh associated with the Daytona International Speedway bike week and biketoberfest the applicants asking for a 2-year time extension to continue existing operations through biketoberfest 2026 this facility has been in operation since 1996 and is probably familiar to most of you um we are making roadway improvements on Pioneer Trail and um CR 415 that will impact this property the applicant will need to come in and do a new special exception and a new site plan after construction is done but we are asking you to approve that 2-year extension because we can't reconfigure this site until we know what area we have to work with so we're recommending approval of the time extension any questions for staff what are they doing with that intersection right there that's all we' here but I believe that's a roundabout that's going be a roundabout we do a harv our County engineer if he wants to come tell us I didn't know there's enough room to do a roundabout there but there's not [Music] good morning Tad kbear County engineer yes sir we are doing a roundabout we had to purchase property from three of the four Property Owners to to fit it in but that's what we're doing but won't that come like right at the front door of where cabage Patches at yes sir mhm dangerous while it changes the traffic pattern it will no longer be a continuous run of asphalt where they can just enter the road wherever they like to yeah they'll have to come in through designated driveway locations which actually will make it SA safer now the driers uh moving through the roundabout or through that intersection will have an idea of where traffic would be added as opposed to anywhere along there when is all that supposed to start uh actually we've got the Construction contract uh all set we're ready to go ahead and start here in the near future the next three to four months obviously we don't want to get started before uh Bike Week bike week right yeah but there's always an event coming up so at some point we got to pull the trigger and get started okay thanks any other questions I have a quick question for you well comment more more of a comment than a question um Trish mentioned that roadway improvements I oppos the roundabout from day one and I still oppose it as a resident on 415 uh yes this is going to basically put the roundabout directly in front of the door the entrance to the Cabbage Patch and um the only thing I would say if I was the owner of the Cabbage Patch is I would look for a variance to see if I could serve alcohol right out the front door as you're driving by drive by like they do in Louisiana but I don't think that's going to happen in Florida that's it thank you no yeah we won't be using the roundabout as a drive-through all right any other questions for staff is the applicant present please come up state your name and address for the record uh Roger ler 3862 Pioneer Trail good morning good morning you heard the the comments from staff um you heard the comments from the engineer you have anything you want to add uh the only thing I'm concerned is uh protection of the building some Ballard or something being put in uh accidents people coming through that intersection with the roundabout MH protecting the building uh at this point the uh the attorneys and the engineers have been working uh still don't really have clarification of a guardrail or Bard or anything being put in in the event of an accident somebody coming through that uh roundabout protecting my building and and the patrons there so it's going to change the the look of the frontage look of the building uh the roundabout would you say in the sense of to the South so it's not affecting the building itself but it's more protection of the cars and stuff coming that intersection this is a Time extension for okay campsites but the issue that I have uh with the campground is there's uh reconfiguring the driveways and entrances and exits um we're still kind of negotiating that stuff out of as far as how you're actually going to be able to get in and out of that Campground so that's what we're looking at so you'll be back again in two years to get to go through this again to do this again okay all right any questions for the applicant no no thank you you may have a seat um any public participation on this one I'm ready to make a motion no sir no all right so we'll close the floor and we will open it up for a motion okay I'll make a motion in case uh S2 5004 be forwarded to the County Council their approval um with the staff's two conditions second and we have a motion on the floor by Mr uh sixma and a second by E Shelly on case s254 to forward the special exception case to the County Council for final action with a recommendation of approval uh do we have any comments any discussion on the motion if not we'll take get to a vote all those in favor I I I any opposed case passes unanimously thank you next case please yes case number p- 24-11 application of Storch Law Firm attorney for henro LLC owners requesting a rezoning from the business planned unit development and resource Corridor zoning classific ation to the planned unit development PUD and resource Corridor RC zoning classifications and This one belongs to Mr Shams hi good morning so the applicant is proposing to reinstate an expired PUD the Pud was originally approved in 2008 but expired in 2013 because it did not proceede the final site plan uh the site is split zoned BP and RC the RC area is not changing and the applicant is proposing to place the RC area in a Perpetual conservation easement historically the site was was a stuck used truck stop from the 1960s to about 1985 but has since been physically removed only driveways to US1 and Kennedy Park W Remain the subject site remains undeveloped and the applicant is proposing to develop the site utilizing the same conceptual plan approved in 2008 by the County Council uh the proposed PUD will not deviate from the original approval the proposed uses uses include 12,000 Square ft of non-residential use and four vehicle F fueling stations under a canopy the site is within our natural resource management area and will require a 50-ft buffer from all Wetlands uh environmental permitting has reviewed the project and did not object to the puds reinstatement overall staff recommends forwarding to the County council with a recommendation of approval and I'm available for comment or question any questions for staff no is the applicant present no applicant either okay any public comments no sir none of those all right so we will close this floor then for public comments and we will open the floor for discussion and or a motion I just kind of want to make sure that you know on the record the applicant has been notified of this meeting it's been advertised um so applicant has kind of waved I guess any any right to present additional evidence and to contest any determination of of this board this is basically just a reinstatement of something that was previously passed and the timeline has lapsed is that basically the yes sir okay what is the time that they're asking for is it the for the or not continuance but for so this is a new PUD so they're basically starting over utilizing previously approved material yeah it's approved back in 08 if I remember right approved okay okay but it ran out of the appr so I was wondering if they don't do anything do they have a chance to do this again I mean if they're start now yeah if approved by the County Council after this meeting they it would start then new clock yes okay right they they would need to go through final site plan and they have 5 years to apply for final thank you that's what I that I wasn't asking the question right thank you all right I'll entertain a motion I I just sort of have a problem when the applicant doesn't show up for something like this this is a big a big deal and I'm surprised by the applicant on this one yes yeah me too well do we want to continue I need a motion for that well if you want to put a motion in in place for that I I I would definitely say give them a chance to continue this I wish we would heard from them though so so make a motion to continue PUD d-24 d011 to the February February 20 20th 20th 20th pdrc meeting second we have a uh we have a motion on the floor to continue case P ud- 24-11 to the February 20th 2025 pdrc meeting um by m Shelly either Shelly and a second by Stony Sigma um any discussion on this all those in favor I I I any opposed all right so the mo this case is continued all righty moving on all right okay and if you would read I think CPA and Z both of them together oh read them yes because they're both the same that's I was they are together okay uh case number cpa-2 4-6 smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment from the oin transitional residential TR future land use designation to the oin mixed use Village flu designation and case number z- 24-10 resoning from the oin transitional residential zoning classification to the oin mixed use Village omv zoning classification all right and this one is Mr Shams as well hi good morning so the applicant is proposing a fature land use change for the Eastern 6.01 Acres of a 12.98 Acre Site from uh oin TR to oin muv the remaining six .97 Acres adjacent to State Road 415 are already muv and the applicant is also proposing the companion resoning application they intend to develop the site with 80 Town Homes uh the future land use change to muv is necessary to meet the housing density the site is subject to the oin local plan in accordance with the local plan uh belusa County in the city of Delona entered into a joint planning agreement to coordinate the review the city did review the request and found it consistent with the jpa in addition the applicant has also proposed a revision to the normal line located on site with this application according to the applicant's request the current the current normal line is not entirely indicative of environmental conditions um and it encroaches too far into the site as a result of a mapping error The New Normal line uses a wetland delineation and will include the wetlands along the southern boundary of the site and a 50-ft wetland buffer environmental per supported the proposed normal line um the site is developed currently with a a 720 squ foot mobile home and was operating as a tree farm from 1987 to 2012 the site was sold to the current owners in November 2021 it is located on the east side of State Ro 415 generally the west side is within the city and the East is within the county there are single family residences adjacent to the site along the east side and a major commercial plot Northwest of the site at the intersection of 415 Howland Boulevard with the current fature Lanes designations the site can be developed with 77 units or a density of 5.93 units per acre if approved it could be developed with a Max density of 101 units however the applicant is proposing a maximum build out of 80 dwelling units or approximately 6.16 D units per acre so it's an overall increase of just three units um the higher dens density of muv designated properties are directly adjacent to 415 and the lower density TR designated properties are further east which provides a natural transition from higher density to lower density changing the future Landes of the site to be completely muv would be consistent with development pattern of the area east of 415 as its Primary Residential uh if the site were developed as muv it could continue to act as a transition of density uh um the proposed change is consistent with Comprehensive plan and the local plan and it's expected to result in an increase of 170 daily trips and 15 PM peak hour trips fucha County Traffic Engineering also reviewed the project and did not express concern so overall staff recommends forwarding the future land use change to the County council with a recommendation of approval and now also briefly touch on the zoning so they're proposing a rezoning of the eastern most .01 Acres from otr1 to omv and the the Western 6.97 acres are already omv so otr1 is intended for a typical single family residential use on individual Lots omv is more versatile as it can accommodate those same single filing residences but also town homes and multif family housing so this is apparent when you look at the dimensional standards for each class as otr1 requires 10,000 ft Lots compared to omv's 2,000t lots and in addition otr1 also requires a 10-ft side yard compared to omv's 5ft sidey yard that may be reduced to zero feet for Town Homes to account for common walls of interior units so though the applicant is only proposing three more units than what is currently allowable their request makes sense from a zoning perspective because of the type of housing they wish to build consistently across the the entire site Town Homes would not be possible within the otr1 area so overall staff recommends approval or forwarding to the County council with a recommendation of approval and I'm available for comments or questions any questions for staff anyone no in that case if the applicant is present you want to come forward please good morning good morning uh for the record Mark Watts at the law firm of cob Cole 231 North Woodland Bev regard to land um appreciate your time this morning appreciate the time that staff has spent with us working on this um this is really just uh sort of an adjustment of some some mapping lines um if you look at the map that's in front of you now uh this parcel has a split zoning and split land use um and there was a mapping error when the narma overlay was put in place we've worked with environmental staff they agree with that uh they agree with the adjustment that's being proposed with this they simply lack the administrative authority to process it and so it has to go through as part of this overall process but as the staff report indicates this is a really um the purpose of the application is to be able to to um construct Town Homes versus single family homes on the entirety of the property as you can see looking at the map in front of you um that's already possible on all of the property to the north um where you've got that hting the mixed use Village um you know that extends on all of the the depth of the property to the north so there's really just making it consistent with what the adjacent property um has both from a zoning and a land use standpoint um it's a very slight um increase with regard to the potential density and as as um Stephen indicated uh what we're proposing is about three additional units over what would be allowed as a maximum with the current as well next steps from here would be get to get into the technical review and Analysis um for plats and everything else you know the the construction plans um Deltona is the utility provider here so that'll likely come with an annexation into Delona as well they have the same zoning and the same land use under the jpa so we process this through the the county um and then ultimately it'll go into the city for the development review side of things so happy to answer any questions you might have but um I really kind of think this is this is really more of a housekeeping issue to address the split Zen any questions for the applicant no I I have one question for you yes sir um just what I'm just now skimming through the bottom here so this is going to be serviced by D dayon Deltona utilities yes water sewer yes and reclaim uh if available yes I can't remember is it currently on site or it's coming uh I don't recall if they've got re reclaimed lines out in this part of oting yet but if it is then that we'd be required to connect to it are they going to Annex into Deltona or stay yeah they they would be required to Covenant to Annex and if it's um if I think they're already adjacent so likely they'll go ahead and process that okay and that's why the the plat and everything else would be processed through Deltona if that if that occurs all right thank you any other nobody else have any questions questions for the applicant no all right I'll let you know if you uh can come back if we have any public participation okay than you thank you do we have any public participation on these cases no sir no all right then we'll close the floor for public participation and we will go open for staff uh I mean uh commission discussion Andor a motion I'll be glad to make a motion please proceed that case number cpa-2 4-6 small scale comprehensive plan Amendment from the oin transitional residential future land use designation to the oin mixed use Village flu designation be approved second by Mr by Mr sixma all right so I have a motion to the floor for case CPA d24 d006 by Miss Shelly and second by Mr sixma to uh find the future land use amem consistent with a comprehensive plan and for the application to the County council with a recommendation of approval to transit to the Florida Department of Commerce for expedited State review and to Belia growth management commission for certification any discussion on this motion hearing none all those in favor I I any opposed this case passes unanimously you would uh I will entertain a motion on the next case please the companion case I'll be glad to make that motion I move that case number z- 24-10 10 rezoning from the oin transitional res oin transitional residential zoning classification to the oin mixed juuse Village zoning classification be forwarded to the County Council for final action with a recommendation of approval second I have a motion on the floor Case z-4 d010 by Miss Eda Shelly second by Stony sixma to forward the rezoning case number z- 2410 to the County Council for a final action with a recommendation of approval any discussion on the motion hearing none we'll take a vote all those in favor say I I any opposed case passes unanimously thank you for your time this morning that's that's a good project for that area need if I can bring the um commission's attention so on the Pud that we uh tabled uh the applicant has made it to the meeting uh I would entertain a motion to reconsider the continuance and bring this back to the floor I make that motion second so uh motion to uh bring Case p-25 d011 back to the- 24- 011 back to the floor for consideration so I have a motion by Miss Shelly and a second by Mr sixma any discussion on the motion all those in favor say I I good morning Mr hang on before you get started let's reread that case back into the record please I just apologize um I had forgotten how efficient you you guys are Yep this is the fact it was moving along give me a second to read on the day so if I can have you read that case back into the record please yes I'll be glad to case number p- 24-11 application of Storch Law Firm o uh attorney for hro henro LLC owners requesting a resoning for the business planned unit development and resource Corridor zoning classifications to the planned unit development PUD and resource Corridor zoning classifications and this is Mr Shams which we heard from earlier do you have anything else to add Mr Shams or can we just call the applicant up just a reinstatement of the Pud okay thank you and then we'll call up the applicant thank you good morning uh thank you very much uh for the record my name is Glen Storch and I represent henro but also one of the partners of hro is a guy named Joe yorell uh and Joe had bought this property years ago as part of his retirement uh he unfortunately wasn't able to retire because uh because he was required to redo the entire Riverview uh a Riverfront um Park in Daytona Beach and so he's put all of his time and uh effort into that right now and unfortunately he forgot that there was a expect expiration on this and so that's and I don't tell them and the staff doesn't tell them they don't give notices out hey your things getting ready to expire so um he did not notice that and so I I you know I apologize but it's it's basically the same thing we've worked closely with staff I really do appreciate the input they've given we know that there's a different there's different uh criteria now we're going to meet those criteria as well so um and plus I think it's it was probably a little premature before uh but now we're seeing some real interest in this area because of the space industry so we anticipate something happening soon if there any questions okay is this just a continuation of what expired back in 08 correct and and again the thing that I I love about this site is this was where the stues was for years yes name from the past yes so so yeah because I'm old I think we all resemble that right any uh any questions for the applicant no questions for the applicant all right thank you do we have any public comment participation rather no sir none all right so will close the floor for public participation and open this up for a motion or discussion I'll make a motion um that we forward this to County Council case PUD 24011 uh with approval there we go so I have a motion on the floor for PUD d24 d011 by Mr sixma second by Mr Patterson to forward the rezoning application case number p- 24-11 to the County Council for a final action with a recommendation of approval any discussion on the motion all those in favor say say I I I opposed case passes unanimously and again thank you very much I I really do apologize I won't make that mistake again hey Glen Glenn I wanted to know I had to fish this out of the recycle bin for [Laughter] you all right and can we get to the final case please yes case number -2- 004 ordinance 20256 division 8 Storm Water Management amendments and this is uh Tad hi Samantha West hi sustainability and resilience manager for vucha County I just wanted to give a little update and history and timeline of what processes has gone through and back in March of 2024 County Council gave direction for enra to look at our storm water management regulations in then reviewed and um reviewed the regulations that Tad had presented at four different meetings that was in April June July and December in between that they were also reviewing the liid regulations that you saw in November both the Li and these proposed store mod management ordinance changes will be going to the February 11th County Council special meeting with that I'm going to give it to Tad so he can talk about all the details thank you Samantha again and Tad casbeer County engineer uh as smantha noted we uh went over quite a bit of information overall I'm not going to go through all that I'll spare you four meetings worth of uh going through all that um we'll go over the particular items that the uh committee recommended for the council's adoption uh if you have any questions about any portion of it I prefer to keep this informal so if you've got a question go ahead and ask at the appropriate time uh so we can hopefully explain some of that uh I did not get uh into a large amount of detail simply because there are a lot of things and I don't know what uh what you're familiar with with regard to the storm water rules so again if you have a question if I'm explaining something and you're not following what I'm doing please just let me know so all right start the presentation powerpo oh there we go okay I got I just want to make sure all right uh so one of the aspects that we uh looked at were the different rules that govern uh storm water uh valuch County obviously has uh rules and requirements on that aspect of it but the state and the federal levels also have that we reviewed those different things and what we were looking for was uh anything that might leave a loophole or Gap uh something uh along those lines also didn't want to re uh uh require something that may already be covered by one of the other different levels of government overall so uh the County's current storm water rules uh are outlined above we take a look at storm water we talk about two different things we talk about uh uh quality making sure that we're not uh uh creating water quality issues Downstream uh areas like uh the Indian River tamoka river areas where we have pristine water bodies we're trying to protect those as much as possible so our rules do have uh some aspects of water quality treatment overall uh but the big one the one that uh everybody has been talking about recently is uh storm water uh flooding attenuation as we refer to it in the rules uh we do have requirements on both of those elements we do try to make sure that uh water quality is uh not negatively impacting anybody Downstream uh we also uh want to make sure with our flooding that uh uh we're not creating any undue conditions Downstream uh State rules on storm water very clear uh the amount of water that comes from a site historically is what's allowed to come from that site so if you have an undeveloped site and a certain amount of water runs off uh during a storm event that amount is allowed to run off whether you uh leave the property as it is or if you come in and make changes to that property they're just simply regrading all the way through to uh putting impervious surface on it so the ways that we make sure that uh we're not flooding anybody out is uh Engineers are asked to go ahead and do a storm water model of the preconstruction condition prior to a development what one of water would come off the site both in terms of the speed with which it comes off the rate as we generally refer to it or the volume making sure that we're not sending any more water downhill uh than uh previously done and then after that we go ahead and run a model that's based on uh what would happen if the development is to occur as it's outlined uh we have different storms that we use for the pre- and post uh comparison uh in an open Basin we use a 25e 24-hour storm uh that basically equates to about an 8 inch storm uh through most of Luchia County it is localized there are different uh rain amounts for different storms based on where you are not just uh across the country but also even in valuchi County a 24 25y year 24-hour storm in the land is not the the same Arin amount as it is in New Smurda Beach for example uh the other criteria we take a look at uh is a Clos Basin criteria if the water does not have the ability to wake make its way downhill and ultimately end up as surface water at the ocean it is considered a closed Basin uh closed Basin meaning that the only way that water would uh level would drop is through percolating and becoming groundwater uh overall in those locations we use a 100 year 24hour storm and uh that's about 11.3 in 115 depending again where you are in the county we use a higher storm in those cases simply because if there's any kind of issue the bottom bottom guy at the bottom of the of the uh the bowl that is the closed Basin ends up with all of that water so we want to make sure that we're doing everything we can to uh mitigate any potential issues in those closed basins the one thing to note and it it commonly gets misunderstood is that when rain falls it becomes one of two things it either becomes surface runoff or it becomes groundwater doesn't go anywhere else doesn't do anything else certainly during the storm there's no evaporation there's none of those types of things so uh in a closed Basin for example that water falls and uh portion of it becomes surface water goes to the bottom surface water moves quicker so it get it's that bottom quicker groundwater generally follows the same uh flow of the land so to speak so it will move Al be up more slowly through the ground to that bottom area as well so all the water in a closed Basin whether it's surface water or groundw is going to end up at that low spot in a closed Basin it just takes longer to get there and uh but but either way it has the same effect overall our typical methods for mitigating for the extra water that would be created as part of a new subdivision or a development commercial site industrial site whatever it may be uh our best management practices most common one that you see everywhere is either a retention Pond stor or detention Pond uh they both generally look about the same so the different rules changes that uh enra has made recommendations on for your consideration the county council's consideration are based on making improvements to the existing storm water rules keeping in mind that the storm water rules are applied to new developments only they are not retroactive anything that's been built prior to these being enacted will not be required to meet these so any of the existing problems uh that are uh that you hear about this will not fix those all this would be looking towards is trying to prevent any future problems that may occur uh overall so the recommendations that were made were tied to originally the seasonal High groundwater uh require when uh a development is created uh one of the things that you want to identify as a part of uh the existing site conditions are your seasonal high water table it uh it basically sets all of the elevations in any development overall so for example skip ahead just a second when a storm water Pond is designed it is the lowest spot on the piece of property gravity pulls water to the low spots so that's where the water is directed whether it's uh Overland or gets picked up and pulled into a uh storm water pipe system however it gets to that storm water Pond the pond is the lowest spot so establishing your design for your storm water is all based on where the water level is when you have no rain when you've got a normal condition overall we actually go ahead and conservatively use the seasonal high water table which means where would the water be during the wet season because obviously a storm water ponds going to be most in use and needed during the storm water or the rainy season so we set that elevation as the designed normal water level as circled on the exhibit from there when you model the storm the amount of water that getss collected in your stormm water Pond creates what we call a Max stage when you design your road Network and your inlets that are collecting the water or in a parking lot if you collect just to have inlets those inlets are all set above that Max stage and moving uphill from there um from those you'd set your Center Line of elevation on your roads or your parking areas and then your finished floor elevations for if it's residential for your family single family homes multif family homes whatever it may be or your commercial sites are all set above that so all of it's predicated initially on that seasonal high elevation and if that's wrong then everything else is wrong and if it's too low in a point of fact Seas You Cas typically have water levels higher than your seasonal High then the system is not going to work and so that is why that's the most important elevation overall and that's why we took a look at that aspect of of uh making adjustments on that so one of the things that uh enra recommended was to uh have the Geotech or biologist whichever one sets that seasonal high and they take a look at different markers if the water table's below ground then the geologist would be the one setting it they'd take borings from those borings they take a look at markers in the soil because water when it sits in soil it leaves certain indicators of where that water table uh is on a regular basis It won't always indicate where it was at the highest point but that's not what seasonal High particularly means it just mean where it sits seasonally during that wet wet period if the water is above grade then a biologist would be setting it because they'd be flagging the wetlands and identifying where that water level gets marked on vegetation and uh those other types of uh markers that might uh indicate that elevation so what they're recommending is the application of a safety factor to that elevation uh one of the things that we've seen uh overall and if you uh watch the meeting on Tuesday you've seen this graph this an indication of what rainfall has been like over the last uh 24 some odd years here in the city of dant we just picked it the information was immediately available uh it will be different if you look at new smna beach Orman Beach Daytona Beach Deltona but it was consistent information and they had the information all the way back as far as 19 something 23 24 something along those lines so it gave a good comparison for what's going on with regard to uh the rainfall and the amount of rainfall is important uh you can see back in 2000 uh we had rainfall of 42 in that's across the entire year and then you see we had a wet period of about 3 or four years in there uh to include the Hurricanes uh overall and then you can see in 2008 we had tropical storm Fay and uh and those types of things and since then it's actually been a little bit uh uh on the lower side which is a little bit below uh the red line which is the average across this time period And as you can see though the last eight years that uh we've been well above with the exception of two of those years and both of those two years are pretty much right at the average so why is this important well what had happened in the past as you can see it was more fluctuation you have high points but they'd be followed by low points I me the hurricanes in 2005 you we got a lot of rain in those particular events but the biggest problem was that the previous year we'd had 75 Ines of rain so that water does one of two things it either makes its way to the St John's river on the west side or on theast side It ultimately makes its way to the ocean directly and uh if uh if you don't have those periods where you dry those things out those areas particular like the closed basins the water doesn't go anywhere the levels don't drop and uh those dry periods so you can see in 2006 we only had 38 Ines that was the lowest over that course of time so all that water we got during those previous years had a chance to recede had a chance to drop had to had a chance to move through ground to get to either the river the ocean and uh flatten things out and then you saw see again that we had that period there where we only had a little bit above the average but almost all those years six seven years were under the average what we're seeing now over these last eight is that not only is the fluctuation pretty much disappearing it's flattening out it's flattening out on the higher side of the average by about six seven inches and as such the groundwater table doesn't have a chance to drop and that's important because that affects that seasonal high elevation overall if the amount of rainfall just keeps increasing your seasonal high back when uh uh you had periods of dry period you're not going to be at that seasonal High your seasonal high is going to keep changing it's going to keep going up the problem for our geotechnical engineers and our biologists is that the markers in the soils take a long period of time to set and establish so if your seasonal High keeps increasing the soil's uh indicators or the above ground indicators are not keeping up with that rate so one of the recommendations was to try to assist in that case to offset that issue was to add a safety factor of 6 in to whatever elevation the G Tech or the biologist set what this does then is that basically sets the pond bottoms six inches higher okay and creates the need for at least six inches more of storage in those storm water systems this creates more volume overall some people that ask why we didn't go ahead and recommend uh increasing the design storm you the uh 25 year 24h hour why didn't we make that a 50-year 24h hour why didn't we make it 100y year 24hour uh same thing for the closed Basin as well why don't we make it a bigger storm overall the issue with that to a certain extent and the reason we did recommend the safety Factor on the seasonal high is that when you're talking about a particular storm yes that event does occur could you get uh could you make it a bigger sure but that only occurs during that storm and if that seasonal high is off in the first place as noted it's increasing we don't know exactly how to forecast what it will be in the next few years because all we've seen is a standard incre or regular increase which is inconsistent with anything we've seen throughout the history of uh the area it uh gives us something to put that on when you run the storm and you assume that normal from our previous if you weren't adding that safety Factor you just took with the Geotech or biologist right it would only occur during that particular storm the safety factor in this case applies to any storm that might occur as we all know you know we don't uh we don't get long periods sometimes between our rainfall events we will get them right on top of each other and if that pond hasn't recovered that starting elevation that designed normal water level elevation may not be what's there we just had hurricane come through you have a normal rainfall come through a week later those ponds haven't had a chance to recover and get back to what they were supposed to so this in point of fact helps on a more across a larger spectrum of events overall it's always a built-in six in this is on top of a one foot uh uh free board that we require on the top of all of our ponds so we already require that if your max stage is 28 that we require that any of your controls be set at 29 to make sure that we don't have issues overall and understand that there is a variability to the weather patterns and try to offset so so between those two we think that that accomplishes that goal and it provides for a more consistent uh solution across those uh some of the other items that we looked at were the uh number of borings per site again because the um seasonal high elevation is so important the more borings you do across a pwn site the better feel you've got for averaging what the uh seasonal high should be in that area and so uh we moved our code did not previously require x amount of borings so we are putting that in the water management or pardon the dot uses uh two borings per acre of the size of pond that's what we've recommended as a part of this that that be put into our code as well um curve numbers when we prepare a model for a storm water site we make certain assumptions on the amount of run off versus the amount of uh groundwater condition um it's not a percentage but it's very similar to a percentage we set those numbers uh zero to uh to 100 with 100 being basically impervious water doesn't move through it so if the rainfall raindrop hits the ground 100% of that raindrop is going to fall uh going to go ahead and become a surface water and flow off uh so obviously green spaces Woods uh Lawns uh PLS those types of things uh will have a better number than asphalt concrete those types of things so it would be a lower number versus a higher number the other factor that plays into how much water runs off and the curve number is the type of soil you have if you have uh beach sand water moves right through it that number is going to be really low overall and it is further factored into you know whe whether it's brush open space those types of things all those characteristics so we have standard tables for these types of things that we use part of the issue comes up is that they are what we call uh well they're basically soils that have characteristics of well- drained soils and poorly drained soils a soils being well- drained soils D soils being poorly drained soils for the uh USGS uh soils map for fuchia County where they've gone through and they've evaluated soils conditions throughout areas of the county and identified these areas are this is a Mally fine sand this is tarious this is Farm they've assigned soil types to each one of them you can see I've highlighted this is one of the tables in there and identifies a through D type soils they have a group of them that are either a d or b/d and in that case again because when you look at the numbers the difference between a b soil and a d soil on the same type so um let's see take dirt at the bottom uh so a b with a just a dirt area is going to have an 82 so uh that's not too not too great but it's not too bad either you can see in a do soil where you have more Clays mixed in or some more organic material in there things that would impede the flow of water into the ground you'd have an 9 so the number you use for that can have an effect on your storm water model and can be I won't say manipulated but I mean manipulated such that uh they may show that uh during the preconstruction condition that there's more runoff occurring than might actually be to shrink the size of their Pond or their uh Improvement so when it's a uh split soil type an a D or b/d what uh what we put in the code is that they have to go ahead and use the uh better case in this case the uh one that holds more water on site and shows less runoff so they've got to hold the bigger difference that hold the biggest difference uh overall and then the next factor that uh played into it that we took a look at was a tail water condition so in an open Basin when the water leaves your site goes into a ditch sometimes may go into the river something along those lines we call that water level in that Downstream area tail water we need to know what elevation that tail water is because it can change how your model works the amount of water that leaves your site when it can leave your site all those different types of things so on setting a tail water usually what happens is an engineer uh and the survey team as a part of the initial design would go out to um an area where the tail water would be occurring and they would look for markers to indicate so a lot of cases let's say it's a canal Downstream they would go down they'd find uh the first structure be it a a culvert or a head wall something along those lines and uh I'm sure you've seen these they've uh on those structures they have stain lines where you can see where the water level generally Rises to uh overall they would to identify that elevation and then factor that into their calculations as the tail water condition uh there can be a lot of variability and as we talked about with regard to the seasonal High because of the amount of rainfall we've had the numbers should be just going up well we wouldn't apply just a set 6 in because the size of the Basin can have a huge effect and six Ines wouldn't be appropriate for really small Basin and certainly wouldn't be really appropriate for things like the Nova Canal b19 those types of things so what we would recommend is that uh prior to setting that elevation and running their first model they engage the county staff County staff go out visit the site with them and set what would be a conservative or should be a conservative uh Downstream tailwater condition to make sure that everything is modeled as appropriately as possible instead of just they set it run a model submit it and then we've got to argue with them uh after the fact and uh it just doesn't work out very well we end up giving ground on certain things when we may shouldn't be there is a lot of professional opinion that goes into it but better to have that discussion where you don't have a timeline or something along those lines hanging over everybody's head and then there's more compromise that should occur all right and then the uh last item that was discussed and is recommended uh by enra and uh came up a little bit the other night is the storm water p on locations on the new development uh one of the things that you see sometimes uh if you did pay attention to the meeting the other night or uh if you're from this area uh you saw it uh over on Orange Camp uh at the Public's uh shopping center down there they had a storm water Pond that storm water Pond sits uh not quite adjacent to Orange Camp but fairly close there's a small space in between but the elevation on that pond was about 12 to 15 feet higher than that section of Orange Camp and uh we got a large amount of rain obviously through Milton it caused it sent more water to that pond than that pond was designed to handle and when we have a situation like that one of the things we typically do is we'll put in an emergency wear some type of structure that allows that water to overflow so that you don't have what happened there which is a catastrophic failure there was more water coming in it over topped and because it didn't have a controlled way to get over the top of it it cut into the grass slopes and just like you'd expect with a large amount of water it blew out one particular section of uh of that uh Pond um and uh if there had been a little bit better design with regard to that aspect considering the possibility that you might have a ridiculously large storm I'm sure the engineer would have changed their design a little bit so one of the things our code doesn't speak to a pond location or trying to deal with that type of situation so that's what we're recommending as a part of this one the pond should be located Central to the project where your property is basically uh providing space from uh the exterior edge of your property such that if the water overflows it overflows your property before it leaves your property and when it does so it doesn't do so in such a manner that it would blow out any portion of your storm water system U that's not always possible uh this is a site here at the North End of Dand uh this is uh 17 North of where it splits from 1792 uh the Hampton hotel that area um they've also opened a Culver's just next to the hotel so you've been through that area you see that um but all that area drops from the East side the right side down to Lake Gertie on the west side and it's a uh that's about a 30 to 40 foot drop in that space the storm water Pond is located on the western side of the yellow shapes there it's the long north south irregularly shaped at the North End section there and uh its Downstream side its western side the elevation change from the bottom of the pond um is about 8 to 12 ft along that side so one of the things that you would do in a situation like that you can't because the site drops so much from the East to the West there's no good way to Center that pond that wouldn't cause uh a lot more other problems so the recommendation is not that we don't allow a situation like this but there are certain things that can be done so in this case the design included called a clay core through that Downstream wall which does not allow water to seep through on that western side um the uh structure or the pond also includes an emergency overflow wear that uh is not a box structure like you see in a lot of these storm R ponds but it's a Concrete wear over that edge that uh is set below the elevation of the top of bank that allows that water to if it gets a catastrophic storm or something that hasn't been anticipated that water flows through that a and doesn't cause the same problem we have down with the Public's pond so that's what the uh the rules recommendation is that if your pond is adjacent to your uh property line and the property adjacent is lower at adjacent to your pond that uh they would need to provide some controls that would be approved by the count County staff to make sure that they a catastrophic event like you saw at Publix does not occur so that's the recommendations that have been made uh if you care to go through the uh the language we can certainly do that you've been provided it but if you have any questions I know it's an exciting topic but uh you have no idea how exciting the topic is um thank you any questions for the uh for the presenter before I get started um I think one question I have is when these go through if these go through what happens with existing developments that are already in progress that don't meet or exceed these regulations a big part of that and Paulo can speak to it probably better than I can will depend on how the County Council when they approve it whether or not they'll set in a effective date and uh go ahead and yell at me if I'm using the terms improperly but they'll set an effective date and generally the way it works is based on that effective date any applications that have already been received continue forward with the rules as they are and then anything that's received after that now they have the I think there's some legal authority to go ahead and apply that to any developments where the applications have not been issued but again I'll while usually um when you make major changes like these um usually applications in process or that have already been received they're they're considered grandfathered um one of the things you you can do is is time out um applications that have been issued so long as they have if if they haven't actually constructed it so for example a uh a PPL preliminary plat or construction plan is good for X number of years um and then it expires and then you have to redo it in compliance with the new standards assuming you haven't done any construction so but typically if there is you know if that an application is already underway under the then existing rules or has been issued there's a grandfather kind of Safe Harbor period um that is typical of any type of these um uh you know uh horizontal development type changes I just um and sure I mean i' gone through it Page by Page not that I um but you know I know this is um addressing future not the current but as you're doing or as this study um or if was going forward um is the is the current are the current developments taken in you know the impervious vers versus the perious soil so is it taken into effect that we have all the per the amount of pervious we have moving forward or is it or is it just estimating am I making sense because we've had a lot of development right and so our pervious land has probably increased quite a bit correct so as this is going through and being addressed um it is that taken in effect I guess this is just looking at the future what say well it's we're going to have more runoff because of XYZ sure when uh somebody comes in to develop a parcel they do take a look at the existing conditions not just on their parcel but on the surrounding Parcels okay so for example um not that we covered any aspect of it but if somebody is uphill of this development that's being done you know they do take a look at what amount of water is coming off of that uphill development to their property because they're required to continue to accept that water okay and so yes they do take a look at things in the surrounding area the surrounding area is not correct but you know they're not going to look at something that isn't a direct effect to the storm water model in that particular area okay if that's kind of what you're asking so and and this is coordinated with each City or is that or is the county over each City yeah the uh the way the the rules work is the uh um the county has for the charter a county minimum standard for certain uh aspects under the environmental storm water is one of those the county does have in chapter 50 um set requirements that have to be applied whether it's unincorporated or inside the city cities have to meet that standard they can make it tougher okay but they cannot loosen it up go below this in particular is not applying to chapter 50 this is applying to chapter 72 which is our own rule obviously we have to abide by what we have in chapter 50 okay but it's not exactly the same we do have some differences and that's what these differences are being applied to okay chapter 50 would require a change to the Charter and coordination with the cities and uh it's a lot more owner uh the goal at this point is really we can make a change to chapter 72 and start applying that to our own developments heck of a lot quicker no reason to wait let's go ahead and start applying that now okay and uh get that moving then going back through Che okay got you okay I'll think of some more go ahead while you're yeah okay so um let me start by saying that I have some direct experience with storm water management in the sense that um and planning in the sense from a development standpoint uh developing properties for the last 25 plus years um so I'm familiar with the process and the inner workings and the Hoops that have to be jump through what I'm not familiar with is the uh is enra and the folks who are on that staff for enra so my question directly is going to be when this ordinance was put together and these these um suggestions I should say were uh implemented was anyone from outside of the county um say in the private sector that works in St Water Management Engineers were they brought into the mix and asked an opinion or or run through the ringer as far as question you know how this would apply sure I understand the question uh enra is a uh citizen committee it is made up of a different range of professionals does include uh two or three Engineers two Engineers um uh Tyler mberg and uh Michelle huh Whit um both of which have done uh site development Tyler uh work for the Department of Transportation does storm water he does uh does projects on both roads and site uh Michelle's background was uh site civil those aspects there are others in the group that are familiar and and understand storm water and its ramifications uh but uh we did as a part of this go through them in the very first meeting uh we didn't jump right into let's make rules we spent quite a bit of time okay uh explaining how development goes through the process uh overall and the calculations and those different types of things to make sure that those that didn't have the set background but it is a it's not a staff-driven uh group it is made up of uh citizen professionals all right and I just want to say that I mean storm water management is an important aspect that needs to be addressed um what this doesn't address is the maintenance of our current storm water system and Canal systems but that's a whole different topic right I think that would that would take care of some of the other issues that that keep getting brought up but this is a start um I did in fact reach out to um three different Engineers that I've worked with uh in the very recent uh past on different development projects and kind of go over some of these um suggested implementations and I do have a few takeaways that I'd like to throw in here uh for consideration if possible and the first one would be on page two of the ordinance which is line 59 when we're talking about the two borings and historically obviously borings are prior to any kind of site plan layout you borrow the site kind of figure out where you're going to put your stuff so teic so once the ponds are designed they don't necessarily land up with the existing boring so now we're bringing in new borings what I would like to see is that a uh in this particular two borings per site uh per acre that we put there for ponds greater than one acre in size because we have plenty of ponds that are under an acre in size I think that that would be overkilled to have two borings under an ACR siiz lot uh pond that's an opinion that's that's I don't mind telling you I'm professionally I would disagree with that okay part of what you find with soils borings and uh um is that they can be quite different from one spot to another when you take a look at your seasonal High uh even across an acre you can see quite a bit of variability depending on what those soils conditions are um so I'm never in favor um and I'm not applying this to the rules I did site development for for years before I came over to the county to do this type of work worked at the department of trans myself and um you know you see too much variability on these smaller ponds and I wouldn't I would always require the Geotech uh engineer to go ahead and put two bom borings in there they would prefer to do that making a professional judgment based on one boring is not a good way to be on a 10,000 acre Pond you would still require or you request a two two boring on a 10,000 acre Pond and most of the time your your ponds aren't going to be that small that's 10,000 acre no uh screw sorry 10,000 square ft you want that's you meant but I'm like square feet square feet yeah 10,000 square fet yes in most cases even then I would prefer to go ahead and have that usually it's not a 10,000 squ foot pond by of itself it's usually tied to something larger if your site is only an acre overall then you might take a look at a little bit different factors and have a slightly different opinion but we do uh I believe we had left some leeway in there for uh County staff to to make some recommendations on that aspect of it so all right so this is the final document that's what you're telling me these final these are not final recommendations no they are final they are final recommendations okay so then I go back to what I but then I go back to my original statement then that to me that that line in there that for Pond's greater than an acre in size would be a um a requirement for my approval on this one so we'll go on to the next page which is Page Three and let's talk about line uh 9394 95 uh we're talking about design calculations and um it's the last sentence that uh I've got a little bit of trouble with it's so equal to the highest measured seasonal high water plus 6 in uh personal preference I'd like to see i' like to see that to read average based on this what you had up there before I think the average plus 6 in would be adequate uh I think that you adding that extra highest is going to create some um design element issues and construction issues down the road but um I'd like to hear your thoughts on that well again the the concern in this case is that the seasonal high is changing based on the rain pattern that we've had and so you're making an assumption uh that we don't have a basis for there's no such as far as I'm aware ability to project what a seasonal high will be if the rain continues to stay at the level it's at or um grow a little bit more as it uh seems to be doing over the last8 nine years so as such I think it's a gray area overall that uh I'd be more comfortable I'm more comfortable with it being tied to the highest obviously I'm more comfortable with average yeah difference of opinions yeah the problem and the concern with a lot of this and part of the reason I would recommend being conservative is once this gets constructed there's no fixing it right you know there's no coming back and changing the pond raising your entire site once your site is constructed overall and I understand and appreciate what it does um and may be the reason that some of the people don't like flooding would actually agree with you as opposed to me is that what this would do is going to increase the the amount of fill that you're going to bring to your site raising your site overall so certainly understand um okay um and then we go to let's go to page four of six then we're talking about the uh the ponds being internal to the project obviously I it it creates such a a site design issue uh putting that pond smack dab in the center and go and trying to design around that sure and and that's why we acknowledge that there are situations like the Hampton Insight that doesn't work that's why we did put in here that uh the the CDE is the community or the county development engineer which is the assistant County engineer she may require or allow for that to occur but then require things like a clay core or the Weir uh in those cases so we're not saying it absolutely has to be um again there sites the Hampton site is a perfect example uh even the public site to a certain extent it could be argued it you need to put the pond at that location okay we understand that but then you have to take uh modif or make make modifications to your design to prevent what has occurred right the failure of the of the of obviously of those BMS and those ponds uh is it's definitely of concern and and we're making we're making strides towards that but I'm also trying to keep this where it's actually we can continue building you know within a certain extent again been on that side I fully understand and I don't think that any of these are that big a problem I'm sure if you asked the developer that built the Publix who's now going to have to go in there and retrofit all of that he would have rather paid for a clay core and a weir ahead of schedule or ahead of time well it's possibly and um for the engineers insurance company would prefer that if the case I'm hopefully hopefully they had good insurance yes uh short of that I mean you've got a few changes here and there I mean nothing that I really need to bring up at this point um I think that we're we're making strides in the right direction um I just the language is what is what is what's uh what's troubling for me and not being a uh by admission not being a an expert in storm water management but relying on those who are smarter than I am as far as that is concerned I would like to see more input from that private sector on that before this gets approved but uh I'm willing to move this forward to the County Council and let them bring those uh comments forward and let the private sector come in and basically have their time in in front of them soes anybody else have anything else to add or to say I have one question uh about the number of borings and this is just uh I'm not familiar with this type of uh construction or whatever two borings per acre if it's a 10 acre Pond would there be an inclination of someone who didn't who wanted to group them all together or is there some way to state that it has to be spread out over each acre I could say that's the that's the way the county staff would be interpreting it is that it would need to be spread over that area representative okay thank you okay any other questions no thank you uh do we have any public participation on this one yep here we go we got one come on up I don't have a sheet so I'm assuming you'll yeah name and address for the record please good morning Mike Woods cob Cole 231 North Wen Boulevard um here on behalf kind of myself as a citizen and and generally supportive of what's coming forward uh but I wanted to come up in part from some of the conversation with you Mr Costa and with Tad um sometimes you guys have heard me talk about how our regulations come forward and it's usually driven by never again rather than by what we want to see and and that's okay and I don't think that's what's happening here because these regulations were already underway well before the Hurricanes kind of came through it's just the Hurricanes now have shown us kind of the worst case scenario and we can kind of take input from that um most of what you is being adopted here and also with the liid standards and that's really why I'm coming up here because I want you to consider how these are going to be working with the new liid standards that have come before you and we'll be coming in front of the County Council because I think in conjunction it works out really well and I think we'll probably be a to resolve some of your concerns about an overreach or an overstep but you guys have a pretty big role in this too moving forward because even on this your regulation right whether it's the average or the mean High reasonable experts can debate about that and then the 6 in it probably could have been eight and that would have been passable could have been four and that's all okay and kind of built into it when we're talking about the context so what what Tad provided here about these regulations that context is the most critical part because we're trying to remember okay what were we thinking about what was really the underlying thought process for what that final number is in the code but the problem that we sometimes have is um well one we will look back at this time and there may be a consideration that these regulations are in direct response to the hurricanes and they're not because even as bad as the hurricane impacts have been percentage wise overall total properties very low and um the projects that have been most recently designed did fairly well not withstanding the blowout of certain projects but what ends up happening often times with these regs is that 5 years from now 10 years from now now um we kind of forget the nuance and the why and then we act with a lot of rigidity right the the the numers in there for a reason and when someone comes in asking for variance or from relief it's like it's a giveaway to the developer well there's a good reason for it but here we've just kind of talked about that there's that basic information now I bring up the liid because I feel liid is trying to be responsive to that we've got a lot of rigid regulations that when they're kind of been added together and they're all very good it's almost like a Tetris block coming down and you get these gaps and the LI standards coming forward kind of help smooth that out and gives a more fluidity you know no pun intended there for some of our regulations um but kind of the the addage of once taxes go up they never come down regulations get added and they never get withdrawn I we can go into a you know we may find this is an aberration of rain I don't necessarily think that's the case but if we're back into drought conditions it's not like we're going to revoke that back because again how dare you you're taking away it's a giveway to the development um and even in these kind of conditions the liid the liid standards tell you to put your storm water ponds in the low depressional area what's that conflict that's going to be when that low depressional area is on the edge now I think they've got a resolution it's about the engineering and stuff but all I'm trying to say here and I again I'm in support of these regulations as they are drafted here is remember your role some of you have been here since the 04 hurricanes and we had other regulations and our closed and open basins came in but when a variance comes up or or staff is trying to come up with a better project and the regulations are kind of grinding against themselves that's where that role of this organization this body kind of comes in to support that variance and the best analogy I can kind of give you is I don't know if you've ever seen there's a there's a YouTube channel where folks that are driving like U-Hauls that don't normally drive it they hit the low hanging Bridge they kind of get stuck and the best Simple Solution when you kind of finding that is you let the air pressure out of the tires and it low lowers it down when it's a regulatory kind of context often times we have felt in the past that there's no way that that the tire pressure cannot be changed so you're either told to go reconstruct the entire vehicle or just chop off the roof and move forward and you can get under that pass but you've got a truck that now no longer has a roof and and nobody's nobody's happy with it so I I think with these regulations here they serve a good purpose I look forward to seeing with the liid and trying to take what we have and then making sure that we don't just look at the the the elements in the code specifically but the reasoning behind it to come to a better project and I think we're pivoting towards that um and I just you know for my two cents I think this is in keeping with that and I feel much more comfortable some of those concerns I would otherwise have with you I think we've got the tide is moving in the right direction to be able to resolve that properly so thank you for your time I appreciate it thank you any other public comments no all no all right any other questions for staff before we close the floor uh Mr chair just a a point of procedure so this is going to a special meeting on February 11th 2025 at 4M it is going to be heard together with the two uh low impact development or Li ordinances because um as you know Mike pointed out they're they're working together and they've been in you know in development for I don't know how many months if not if not a year um one of the things uh that we're going to do is is you know leave it leave this particular ordinance kind of a little bit more open than you know for discussion so you know anyone can attend if they have you know any addition um uh recomend recommendations or additional comments it's going to be on these two particular sections 72 7 28 and 29 uh 778 and 779 so you know those two sections um can be what's what's discussed can't go outside of that because that's becomes a noticing issue but can you that date one more time on the special meeting please here it's February 11th 2025 that's prior to our next meeting yes it's going to be at 400 p.m. here in the um auditor so what if if I hear I just understood you correctly this this ordinance as it's currently written then is still fluid it's not concrete uh within those two sections uh 72 778 and 72779 um uh you know anyone can show up and the County Council it's a special meeting they can act they can make any amendments and changes okay in that case I don't have a different perspective all right um thank you anyone else all right so we're going to close the floor for public participation and open the floor for staff discussion Andor motion so before we start with the motion let me just say from a discussion standpoint that uh my initial intent here was to vote no on this specifically because I I I think it still needs a little bit of tweaking here and there I'd like to see more um private sector par participation but now knowing that we've got a special meeting going through I don't have I have no problem moving this forward to get it to that meeting and then putting that word out that so that the private sector then has the opportunity to go in there and uh voice their um their concerns Andor improvements to what's on here I think that we're in making steps strides in the right direction um I just didn't want to see a a big knee-jerk reaction to the situation that occurred uh but more of a uh methodical and educated uh reaction and with that I'll take either a motion or comments I'll be glad to make a motion please go ahead I move that the pdrc forward ordinance 20256 to the County council with a recommendation of approval uh let me back the out is it 20 254 ordinance number 20 25-6 okay thank you all right and a second so we have a motion on the floor from Miss EA Shelly and a second from Mr Patterson on uh ordinance number 25-06 which is actually case number 0-25 004 any discussion on the motion all those in favor I all those opposed motion passes unanimously all right that concludes the items on the agenda we have any other public items no sir do we have any staff comments no sir any commission comments um yes ma'am I have a couple uh just that um I I really I had actually more things missing from my packet once I saw the agenda that this has just never occurred I'm not pointing fingers but just um I don't know if it's Theos whatever but I had several items missing from my packet and also uh No Agenda in my packet so I was therefore not able to even realize those items were missing and um I just hope we can find some way to correct this and and the post office utterly destroyed half of it too it was torn apart and tap together and it came really late as well I I only got it uh Tuesday if I can piggy back on that one yes my envelope was actually didn't have any tape so the pages were actually sticking out of the sides of the envelope perhaps Mine mine's the same way same way perhaps uh maybe we should go to the uh the tyx type envelopes that are a little bit stronger than just a standard paper ones if we're going to mail if we're going to if we're going to continue mailing uh they make them in a larger size as well I think this was a rather uh large package um I know that you didn't you did not receive your package at all probably was it probably destroyed through the mail system itself and and they didn't even deliver bother to deliver in your an empty envelope but uh yeah that I think that was problematic and I know that we all got emails or we should have gotten an email basically saying it was available online uh that's not the same it's not the same but it was an opportunity to squawk and I'm sure that they would staff would have made some kind of exception and either brought you one out or or REM mailed it so uh just that was a comment on our excellent point yeah anybody else no uh I do have one I'm hoping that uh that our chair will be back next month this is uh twice two times in a row and while I'm getting better at it I'm not still not comfortable with it so I hope that he uh speedy recovery for him that he's back here next month you did a fine job thank you um any uh press and citizen comments no well with that we are adjourned