e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e regularly scheduled public meeting of March 18 2024 of the township Washington Township Council adequate notice of the meeting was given in accordance with the open public meetings act by the Township Clerk to at least two newspapers in January and this meeting has been posted on the township bulletin board electronic Message Board WCTV and on the township website please notify the municipal clerk for any disability requirements necessary for attendance at Council meetings the fire exits are located through the double doors to your right and through the door on your left please silence all cell phones could everyone please stand for a salute to the flag I to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all roll call councilman Casio here councilman Sears here councilman Omen here Council woman valz here council president of Senate here let the record reflect also in attendance mayor Peter calamari Township administrator Mark D Carlo Township attorney Ken par and Township Clerk Susan wow payment of bills resolution number 24-1 191 authorized payment of bills March 1st 2024 to March 14 2024 any do I have a motion some move second discussion we good mman yes any other discussion roll call massio yes councilman sear yes councilman Omen yes Council woman valz yes council president the Senate yes PSA PSA for March 18 2024 the township second annual spring into Wellness 5K run walk and healthare will be taking place on Saturday April 27th please visit our website for further information and sponsorship application the township of Washington is launching a Hometown Heroes Banner program as a living tribute for our community to honor past and present members of the Armed Forces if you'd like to sponsor a banner please visit our website for further information 2024 animal license renewals were mailed out in late December please note the $25 late fee began on March 1st please register New Jersey counties in partnership with the Department of State Division of elections are actively seeking residents to serve as pole workers for the upcoming primary and general election please visit our homepage to learn more the township is seeking members for The Advisory Board of Health and a public affairs director if you are interested please contact the mayor via email at mayor atwp of washington. us on Wednesday March 27th at 1 pm. the superintendent of Elections will be in at the township demonstrating the new voting machines in the senior set all are welcome to attend as a reminder our cable channels are 77 on Optimum in the township and Westwood only and 24 on Verizon FiOS in many Jersey towns the next special council meeting will be held on Wednesday March 20th at 7 pm thank you council president if I may yes um for the hometown hero banners the deadline is April 1st okay so so the hometown hero Diner deadline is April 1st we have them printed in time for Memorial Day thank you thanks Mr Mayor do you know if they're running late or I just texted him he hasn't answered back yet he said he said there's an outside chance they might get an early call also so we'll just work around it at this time we were supposed to have a presentation from the ambulance Corps but they are running a little bit behind so we will what's that no that's Mr stickle um so we'll we'll when they if they get here we'll just suspend the reading and we'll go to the ambulance core presentation if they do have the time to arrive tonight uh Administration follow-up report thank you council president good evening everyone this is my follow-up report from the town council meeting of March 4th 2024 four uh there was nothing to U do any followup as far as resident concerns or questions Council concerns and questions councilman um I'm sorry councilman Omen asked if the cost of the master plan can be funded through a capital expense I spoke with our financial advisor according to the Division of Community Affairs njsa 4A 4.53 the expense of master plan is considered an operating expense and cannot be funded through Capital we do have the following three options One Fund the whole expense of the $85,000 through the budget fund a fifth of the expense which would be $117,000 through the budget and create a special emergency resolution for the balance to be paid off over five years or create a special emergency for the entire amount and defer the funding till 2025 councilman nman requested the supporting documents for loap and the bids for the recycling vegetative waste while the documents were provided councilman Casio requested that we look into a sink hole in the property of 604 would roll the sinkhole is from a tree that was removed from the county several years ago and the remaining roots are rotting therefore creating the sinkhole this should be the resident's responsibility however the DPW will fill the hole as they've done so in the past they were just waiting for some drier weather um I did not check up today to see if it's done I will do so at the time of the report I didn't have any Township project updates however today I did meet with engineering um councilman Sears and um Anthony matina from matina and Son's Contracting over at the uh location of the commuter lot to discuss some of the Landscaping restoration uh that was due some of the residents that were Disturbed from our sidewalks and are you know taking down some unfortunate trees along the boorder of the homes on McKinley we had a good meeting we're hoping to start the Landscaping the fencing and the paving within the next uh few weeks as as soon as um temperatures become above freezing consistently council president thank you that's the conclusion of my report thank you Mr do we have a cost for all that additional work at the commun lot it it's all within the bid oh it's included in the bid oh yeah the the landscap restoration no it's not exceeding the bid amount no change orders okay thank you any discussion on Mr de car's report uh all I can say is that the resident did send me a text of the sinkle that was filled in so thank you very much for doing that appreciate it general public comment limited to five minutes do I have a motion to open the public comment period so move second all in favor I I would anyone like to come up this time and address this Council good evening Mr SLE pres Bob stickle 191 Walnut Street Township of Washington New Jersey um I'm just back here with the taxes again that the school board came out with a preliminary budget and again our taxes are going up in the township um from what I could figure out because it's not fully published yet um based on the tax rate we're going to go up another $21 on the average assess value um just to give you the background here like I've said before you know the last four years um you know 2021 the Westwood went down $67 we went up $115 2021 2022 they had a lot of savings because of Co the previous year um Westwood went down $73 we went down 14 2022 Westwood went down 240 we went up 287 2023 2024 Westwood went down $443 we went up $277 so if you just take the last three years roughly we're up$ 7800 I don't know how much they're going down but I'm I'm going to figure it's going to be in a $3 $400 range so it's a huge difference Mr yeah I just urge that we get on the same you know when you decide on this reassessment or reevaluation whatever they call it that we do the same thing as they do do the initial valuation and do 20% every year so we're on equal footing with them you know I'm not going to stand up here and say ours is going to go down after we do that but hopefully we won't see such a huge discrepancy because I mean believe me I know you're working hard to save money in Municipal budget but School budget's 67% correct you know the school budget you know the town budget's about 12% 133% or whatever so so after after last meeting we we were advised that the you know the the county had asked us to do this two years ago so we've made it a priority to get it done this year our tax assessor will be on Zoom shortly to go over our options so we can make a decision the municipal budget of how we're going to proceed so we will have an answer tonight of how the council would like to proceed um so yeah we did lose out on probably $800 worth of savings in the last two years because we didn't do it two years ago so but we're not going to we're going to make a decision tonight no I I understand that you're making the decision because our hands forced at this point but yes you know last meeting I maybe I misunderstood some of the conversations of you know I don't want to save $30,000 and not be doing the same thing Westwood I believe I believe our assess Mr Mayor is it correct that our assessor is the same assessor as Westwood or is she the Hillsdale assess also you can find out exactly what they're doing tonight that was one of my questions is I'd like to be in because one of the residents had reached out and asked if we could be in sync with the the rolling 20% so this way it'll it'll stay equal because we'll be in sync with that that's what I would like that's what you're that's I was a little concerned by some of the discussions we were just looking at the different all the different prices came out we were just trying to figure out how to do it you know my point is I don't want you to be you know we won't any wise dool we're saving $30,000 this year about five years that is not our that is not my intent I can't speak for everybody I don't but I I would like to hear her ask you see how we could be in sync with Westwood at the 20% and I would just like to know like when we get this bill from Westwood to pay like who's checking the for me you know I'm not saying there's anybody making a mistake over over there in the business manager but uh you know it's a huge disparity I I've seen him do some government math when they put the SOS in the schools says it was going to cost people8 cents for $350,000 we need about 30,000 homes between Westwood and so you know I think someone really has to understand that formula either the CFO or the tax assessor whoever job that is and make sure go check it is correct I know when I submit bills to towns believe me that they look all over the time find tooth comb sometimes for $76 so you're absolutely right so I mean you know we're talking millions of dollars here so that's that's the only thing and you know I trust that you'll all make the right decision to the taxpayer but I think that's the most pressing issue right now thank you Mr would that be council president yes Mr I know we've been trying to get the formula from the school on how they calculate hours and um as far as I know we haven't got it but I have a question for Mr Pao do we have any legal action to go against this raise that they're giving us is there any uh way that we can challenge it not that I'm aware of off the top of my head no can we appeal our can we appeal our school bill is what you're asking right Mr Mr Sears is asking if we could appeal our school Bill to put it i' have to look I'd have to look at that I'd have to look at that because I I I still I'm you know I've read a lot about this Mr PA and I can't believe that a Township kid sitting next to a Westwood kid it cost us so much more to educate the same kid that right in the're in the same class right I know a lot of school districts have taken up this subject and failed but yeah I think that's true I'll take a look at it but uh no answer for tonight that's for sure okay all right thank you something you can get back to us on okay that yes that' be perfect any other discussion on the subject until our taxes yes Mr I just um would that be something within the purview of uh Lurch biny that's what I was going to ask do they have the ability and the knowledge base to assess the uh funding formula and offer an opinion on the uh if it's correct or if it needs uh to be uh reevaluated and corrected and if they're not the right person if they could push us in the direction of who the right person would be to make that evaluation we could certainly ask them thank you Mr Mayor they do um a lot of CPA work for large school districts or school districts that's on their CV so okay they obviously have the knowledge oh they're the Westwood School District we okay all right um any other person no one else in the audience is there everyone on Zoom that has their hand off I got word from the ambulance here momentarily okay there is no one on Zoom uh with their hand up we'll give it a second I was asked to give him a second is there still anybody with no hands up the nope motion to close the public portion of the meeting some second all in favor I I if we just give Mr Greco and Mr Fox a second to get here uh Mar said they're arriving momentarily to be honest I don't know what their idea of momentarily means that's not the if that's not them opening the door we'll go to Sarah if that's okay Sarah's not in not yet no Sarah's not here yet not in conference okay looks here they are they're here I see Mr Greco now yell good evening Mr G good yourself all all right um is Mr Fox joining you or you by uh he for some reason we thought it was 9:30 so I don't know if he's going to make it in time so oh you thought you were coming in at 9:30 yeah so that's all right we put on early so you can get out of here early though yeah that that's fine that's why I'm I'm I just got in so that's why I'm still dressed like this um well it's just that I wanted to update the uh not just me but the core I want to update the uh low sa qualifications and the points okay uh because when these were first introduced and developed they were uh we were basing it on 60 hours a month on riding time which just does each individual which does not happen you know now we're riding 12 hours trying to fit it in where we can everybody does whatever they can do to help out so that was one of the reasons then there was another one that the um there was people that were more L abusing the uh privilege they were you you're supposed to the low set points were supposed to be for uh gained by going through all the categories riding um uh drills meetings functions all kinds of stuff like that maintenance on a building clean up all kinds of committees and they weren't doing that they were just doing it all based on one group uh basically the cus the extra credit uh points that we needed so we stopped that we we uh condensed it down and made up different categories and everything is listed I don't know we have we have the list you have you have them one um that it's basically just to bring it up to date and it be more in compliance with the Lo now is this in compliance are the surrounding area ambulance cores similar to what you're asking to adopt or you don't know don't know and they're all different council president but are there any Ambulance Corp um actually made up their own rules and regulations for low you know and I believe these are 30 some odd years old yes and uh just to I did talk to uh Mr greo uh last week and this week to go review the points and what they're they're doing to uh we all know what this State's doing it's actually crushing the Ambulance Corp volunteer Ambulance Corp group so with his modification it's putting more members in the loop and loap was actually developed to generate more participation in these groups so um um I'm sorry Mr was the next step that I was going to I wanted to be you know so you know that yeah it was just it was meant to help and there was at points that so right now it's hurting you more than helping you exactly because restrictions you know and um this hopefully will add you know I mean every every new member that comes in they're most like these younger kids tell them to try to do what they can and try to keep keep current with the core and the older members are doing that as best they can but unfortunately our our uh average age of of the core is like 60 so you know it's getting kind of tough and then the state is not making it any easier with their rules and regulations and unfortunately I think volunteer eventually is a Dying Breed what is the um what is the state mandating that's creating this environment where it's becoming harder and harder to recruit and retain right that's thank you uh right now there's actually if you there's a short AG of EMTs in the state of New Jersey okay and that is partly because they are so aggressive in their classroom attendance it's like 270 hours and it's all done 4H hour Clips at night I mean they probably have it during the day but most of the volunteers are night night they have to work yeah you know so but it's takes six months and it's two two or three Saturdays for um uh on site work you know and drills and stuff like that uh it's just very very very difficult very difficult just and and to keep up with your uh your EMT certification you have to take ceu classes continuing education classes now I don't know if you all know or but I am actually a retired registered pharmacist I only need I have to get more cus for my EMT license than I do for my pharmacy license Wow that's scary yeah so but I think like councilman SE said that it's it's uh they're looking to go get rid of the volunteers and go you know private paid more private whatever yeah ask a question sure um has there been six what has been the success in these other ambulance cour that have adopted these changes um I don't know if they if they all have you know what I'm saying like said there was there was every every course like Westwood is in better shape um memberwise than we are but that's you know so they don't they don't have as much of an issue with uh Manning a schedule but are they closer to 60 hours or closer to oh oh okay I don't know you know be honest with you I would say the 60 hours is unrealistic unrealistic I think also with mutual Aid within uh pasak Valley certain towns I know one town hired a full-time uh EMT and uh not to cast any dispersion on 80 town but they seem that uh they will not come into the township anymore and it's unless we respond more to them I believe that's the story I was told oh yes and now it comes to a point where I think changing their loap will probably generate more interest uh even though the hours are unbelievable for their training um how many current EMTs do we have Mr bar is everybody on the path to becoming an EMT or we just have we have mostly with um older EMTs and there's actual riding EMTs that I would say maybe at most five oh 10 maybe you know but we have plenty we have plenty of people to man you know to man a rig all the um the uh high school kids and a lot of our newer members our older members are emrs they medical uh emergency medical resp First Responders they're not as strict on their training as an EMT okay but they still they can do CPR they can still help at the scene uh so there's a couple of different routes that they can go uh we've got a couple of nurses that are um EMTs as well it's just getting hotter and hotter so by allowing by us correcting your LPS it should it should generate or create a better interest within our volunteer ambulance so so has the core made a decision that everybody amendable if this was put to a vote today yeah it was it was voted on um for us so you just if the council was to take a vote tonight to authorize these changes which I'm not saying we will or will not that'll be up to the council to decide if we make a motion to adopt these changes but if we were to adopt these changes we wouldn't be throwing them down and then all of a sudden it becomes a problem between the core and the council saying well you adopted these and we don't want these no no no we we went through a few meetings that we had to uh say that we needed to approve that we needed a committee we formed a committee to to uh change whatever we could figure out the best way we could do it then we presented those changes to the core and everybody approved you know at the time approved it okay with the 15 hours versus the 60 yeah exactly you know and it's this is basically how all the low St procedures go through don't want I don't want I know the direction to go I don't want to ram something down the PO throat and say well you guys did this to us you they ask no I I don't think that that'll happen I just want to confirm you know yeah no no that's fine no no that's any other discussion ladies and gentl um it's just kind of um cut off on our paper here it says p 11 I can't read that so I'm just wondering if that's the meeting the top right hand cor yeah I believe that I was told that was when they had the their internal meeting was that day and that's yeah when they pass it on your end so that so since November basically they've been on board for the CH yes oh yeah it's just that you know various reasons you know who couldn't get here was who wasn't around you know that kind of I I I'd be in favor of making a motion tonight I second that motion to accept the loap changes as unless mrman has another question I have just go ahead Mr Alman I'm sorry so for category two which is the training um you had indicated that there was a uh heavier Reliance on the CEUs to meet the total points um and that you were trying to eliminate that or I guess reduce that reduce that yes we just to explain the reason behind that we had um a few members that were not riding were not attending meetings were not coming to any of the the town functions like the tree lighting or Memorial Day emorial Day Parade or the 911 services and they were getting all their 100 points just by just by online reading you know and staying home and and you know basically not really helping us so so my only question is and maybe I'm I'm not reading this properly but it looks like it's going from 10 to 20 what it let me see I'm not even sure are you talking category two I'm looking at the second document if I could pleas speak with um hisob Fox he's a truste president last last term we put a maximum of 20 because as Eugene said people were getting 80 points just from taking cus we tried to put greater emphasis on writing that's what we're here for sure to be in service so if that ANS is your question I I I guess I understand what you're looking to achieve just in reading the document and again I could be misreading it but I'm looking at the second document uh that has the strikethroughs and it looks like the maximum points granted it was 10 and it's now 20 um honestly I think that's an error because we were getting whatever cus you got that was added onto your so or could it have been you originally wanted to make it as L also and um that's an error it was not a maximum of 10 it was I mean some whatever you earn some of the these classes research um like the your EMT research is a three-part exam and a test and that's like 30 something points so you know you know it's not it's not just a 10-point uh situation so you write so it it would be a maximum of 20 however if these other classes involved then it's you're you're okay it's not not an issue so you're saying that 10 is the eror 10 is the ER 10 is the eror yep but now we're going to make it a total of 20 so you can't go for ADC and get full credit any long right exactly exactly's cap on on on each category it looks like you C them all so you can't just jump into one category and say I fulfilled my obligations and remove the writing sit out the whole year because you got your 100 points in January it would say yeah exactly which technically you could do before put points but it's not helping the be in service not the yes our mission is to keep that want service and if there's a a reward for writing more so be it that's that's what it's there for yeah my niece from hills appreciate this my EMT niece from hills appreciate this because she's always here when she's not in school I mean the state requires us to to do a certain amount of cus and if you go over and above that that's your prerogative but we are required so that requirement is still there but we're putting a cap on the yearly Point yeah so it's not going to supersede the state requirement it's just going to supersede your lowp requirement saying you can't for right what we wanted what is the state requirement for cus for I'm sorry what is the state requirement for those cus per year is it by anal is it it's three years you have to renew your em every three years and you need 24 um uh C plus the test recertification is um three 8 Hour modules which is 24 cus but you those points cannot be used right that's exactly called core classes they got to be taken no matter what then you've got to do 24 cus extra extra credit Mr Alman any other questions um I guess the if we need aund if not we excuse me if I uh individual needs a 100 points to qualify is the 30 points in uh responding to calls is that a big enough driver to get that behavior that's what we're looking that's why we put it in that way we're looking for that to more like like Bob was saying more emphasis on responding more emphasis on writing so that it kind of like pushes everybody to ride to ride so again and you know if this is clear to everyone no category one is the writing and it's going from 40 to [Applause] 30 again yes it I I I believe it is I don't I'm not sure exactly where it is on my papers but that again was based on the was 60 based on on you had a ride a lot more hours we try to to reduce it so that it it would be more advantageous for other people to ride everybody to right get their points but I guess if you're capping the max for riding which I'm I'm assuming is category one wouldn't we want that Max to be higher wouldn't we want to allow people to get you know the most points through riding if that's the behavior we want to sort of encourage yeah um yeah I would say yes but it's not it's not um writing is is is is the hardest part of the whole thing because you don't know right now we're looking for if you call me up and say Gan I'll I'll ride tomorrow night for two hours I'm not on the schedule but I'll ride for two hours and I can get a crew together I'll put it on and then you'll get credit for it you know what I'm saying I I don't want to put it that it's like if you if you made it too low then you would not you know I wouldn't have to worry about riting those hours I can get it somewhere else I can get it somewhere else so that's why it's it's very it's that one's the one of the hardest areas to to maintain okay you know you're in a tough spot trying to balance everything because you scare people away that you need too much to ride exactly so it's a tough thing to do you know if if you know it's depending on a new person's situation I can only you know only ride 44 uh 4 hours once a week then so be it you know and we need that and then that way but I don't want you to tell me that Jean I'm G to ride 60 hours in a month which which will put you at Double what the the minimum is and then not come to anything else that would hurt you yeah yeah you know W works you need a balance but you need a balance you know I mean just like you guys you have to have you have to be in attendance at your meetings in order to get anything passed you know or to know what's going on with the with the Corp so that's where we're trying to push everybody to to attend the meetings to attend the the town functions okay so Mr Fox and Mr Greco as presented and and adopted at your November meeting you're you guys are comfortable if we pass this tonight implementing the new losap would they when would they take effect would they take effect council president can I interrupt for one you have to actually change the ordinance is what you have to do okay you can't you can't adopt it tonight you have to change the ordinance so I we have to make a motion to change the ordinance Mr no no just tell being I I'll I'll change we take vote on on whether the council wants to change the ordinance and then once we change the ordinance then we will relay that back to the ambulance sare I guess pass would it be retroactive to this January or would it take effect uh could we retroactively pass it to January 1 I think it could I think yeah shouldn't problem it shouldn't be I don't think problem you did it with fire so and can I ask do from an administrative perspective is the so the uh Ambulance Corp presents their lowp calculations to us is this clear for from an administrative perspective that it could be validated do we who who who checks this I I don't want use a name necessarily but but someone does and uh if they have any questions they'll reach out to Ken or anything like that for clarification um you know hopefully it's just plugging in different amounts that the wording isn't changing too much but maybe just yeah if you notice on on our sheet it's yeah it's what's crossed out is what it was existing and then is just short you know we shortened up a lot we got rid of a lot of a lot of stuff a lot of words but I I would think maybe we do a dry run in October or so um and and see how it's working make sure ambulance and us are on the same page uh that way before it comes to December we know we're on the same page any other discussion I'd like to uh make a motion that we instruct Mr par to change the ordinance to adopt these loap comments presented by the ambulance courp tonight second that roll call counc Casio yes councilman yes councilman ssor where we at now counc seers yes yes thank you counc yes counc woman valz yes council president to sen yes so we Mr Greco Mr Fox will take this uh we'll officially adopt it once we get the revised ordinance at the next meeting okay and uh we'll get back to you very good but it's gonna you know Council already took a motion hopefully we'll get more volunteers yeah hopefully this will help with the volunteers I will say there it was nice to see a big turnout at your event at the event yes to see a lot more people and that was those were uh the new members were were uh high schoolers and college students and we've got a couple college students that and every time they go even they come back because their local somewhat local Rhode Island Penn State that kind of thing um they come home for just a few days and they'll ride wow that's great yeah you know and then when they're on uh Christmas break they ride the whole time that's great good well thank you Mr Time app apprciate a good night thank yeah ordinance is option second reading uh ordinance number 24-3 an ordinance establishing required inspections for lead based paint and rental units within the township of Washington resolution number 24-1 192 authorizing second reading and opening a public hearing for Ordinance 24-3 do I have a motion so move second roll call counciling Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes Council W valz yes counc yes motion to close public hearing for Ordinance 24-3 do I have a motion I'm sorry discussion would anybody in the public like to discuss the ordinance establishing requirements for lead based paint and rental units in the township no one in the audience on the dice any discussion no discussion no one online no one online motion to close public hearing for Ordinance 24-3 do I have a motion second sorry councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to sen yes motion to adopt ordinance number 24-3 at second reading by title some move second roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to sen yes ordinance number 24-4 an ordinance establishing requirements for privately owned salt storage within the township of Washington resolution number 24-1 193 authorizing second reading and opening of public hearing for Ordinance 24-4 do I have a motion so move second councilman yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president of the Senate yes any discussion on privately owned solv threads anyone in the public no one on Zoom anyone on the DI motion to close public hearing for ordinance 24-4 so I'll move second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to Senate yes motion to adopt ordinance number 24-4 at second reading by title do I have a motion so move second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council W valz yes council president the Senate yes ordinance number 24-5 an ordinance amending the fee schedule for recreational activities administered through the office of recreation intro to cheerleading Max fees resolution number 24-1 194 authorizing second reading and opening of public hearing for Ordinance 24-5 do I have a motion so move second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Alman yes council yesc president yes any discussion from the public no one in the public on Zoom no one's on Zoom any discussion on today no discussion motion to close public hearing for Ordinance 24-5 do I have a motion move second councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to yes motion to adopt ordinance number 24-5 at second reading by title do I have a motion so move second roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes coun counc woman valz yes council president yes ordinance number 24-6 an ordinance amending the fee schedule for recreational activities administered to the office of Recreation summer Recreation camp program Max fees resolution number 24-19 oh hold on uh 195 195 authorizing second reading and opening of public hearing for ordinance 24-6 so move second second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman SE yes councilman Omen yes Council bz yes council president to sen yes anyone in the audience seeing no one in the audience how about Zoom no one on Zoom any discussion on the days I would just like to thank the mayor and Mr scary for promising our residents that we would have one week of closed registration for Washington Township residents only so summer wreck will open for Township residents only for one we period correct Mr Mayor thank you Mr Mayor motion to close public hearing for ordinance 24-6 she move second roll call councilman Casio yes councilman sear yes councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president to sen yes motion to adopt ordinance number 24-6 at second reading by title do I have a motion so Mo roll call any second second councilman yes SE yes councilman yes Council BL yes council president the sen yes oh we don't have the 20 days okay individual resolutions resolution number 24-1 196 emergency resolution ordinance 24-6 summer Recreation Camp Max fees do I have a motion so move I'll second it roll call can I ask oh I'm sorry Mr Alman discussion yeah um just how why are we doing this uh as an emergency an emergent resolution Sumer April 5th is your microphone on Mr De Carlo I think it's actually the fifth fth I lose track so yeah typically they don't like to change that date too much because it confuses the residents you know because they're used to that same opening date every year so especially if we want to give them preference um you know we like to lock it into that date as close as possible every year and the 20 days would be if we if we adopted it without the emergency it' be 20 days too long correct when does it open April 4th fth I think it's the fifth the opening of of registration of registration yeah okay thank you sure any other discussion roll call C yes counc oh my goodness gracious I'm sorry I just see it myself that whole roll call is wrong councilman Casio councilman seers yes Council mman yes Council wz yes council president to Sena yes I did tell you it was yeah you did tell me it was just like 24 hours too late resol introduction first reading done resolution consent agenda the following items have been determined to have their unanimous consent of the council and will be enacted in one motion should any item require independent consideration any council member may have such item removed from the consent agenda does anyone have any resolutions to be removed from the consent agenda for discussion 24-204 204 okay any others ladies and gentlemen so we are making a uh one unanimous uh vote for resolution number 24-1 197 authorize refund of boys lacrosse registration fee Chia and the total amount of not exceed 155 resolution number 24-1 198 authorized refund the boys of cross registration fee Hannah in the total amount of not to exceed 155 resolution number 24-1 199 authorized refund of grows of cross registration fee Luna in the total amount of not to exceed 130 resolution number 24200 authorized release of performance guarantee block 2109 lot 5 googan and the amount of not to exceed $1,000 resolution number 24-21 authorized refund of performance guarantee block 4506 lot 54 in the total amount not succeed of 2250 resolution number 24-22 authorized refund the performance guarantee block 41201 lot 5 in the amount of not to exceed $950 resolution number 24-23 authorize the mayor to execute an interlocal agreement with the bur of Westwood for teen night for the term of January 1st 2024 terminating December 20 excuse me December 31st 2026 do I have a motion so Mo second roll call councilman CIO yes councilman sear yes councilman man yes Council bz yes council president the Senate yes resolution number 24-204 opposing assembly bill number four Senate bill number 50 proposed overhaul of the Fair Housing Act fhaa do I have a motion sir move second second discussion yeah so where did we get this from if I might ask Mr B do you want me to explain yeah you got yeah you got the motion you got the resolution I I can say I I believe it's Mr sirian Right This who did it right yes yeah yes and it's it it came from um another clerk another town where their attorney had gone and and done this more detailed you know opposition to the bills compared to what we had done already and I shared it with Mr Paula Mr Paula thought it was a very good resolution definitely I will say the the and I I heard that it's pass it to right I think his namami or whatever his name is he's kind of one of the leading uh uh attorneys in the state for the municipalities and fighting uh the uh uh the fair share U organization that goes after all the towns and I think that I've read it it makes some excellent points it doesn't you know the laws that that they're throwing out there is not protecting the municipalities for uh lawsuits by Builders uh even if they do comply I think uh it also um does recognize that there is a big difference between undeveloped towns and fully developed towns I mean you know you take a town like Washington Township and you start putting you know a number of that you have to build or allow 400 or whatever the number is units uh the prior situation allowed for the vacant land adjustment you heard that phrase before uh and I think Mr Burr just mentioned it uh when he was talking about it about master plan so I do think it's a that they need to work much harder on getting a a fair uh bill um and I think this um resolution is much more detailed than the original uh resolution which also took the same position but didn't explain it nearly as uh detailed as this does you know July of next year um you know all new rules Come out and you know everyone's going to be faced with this situation all over again that we had last time um we came out quite well last time but you know another time unless the unless the law allows for um you know adjustments for towns that are develop and protections um it's going to be a problem any other discussion they just they keep moving the goal line well theyve passed they passed the ACT today and give ital effects to all all of us they're trying to squeeze so this has already been passed today it was passed at launch right after launch it pass so is this should we still adopt this Mr PA even though this pass this afternoon yes I would still stand it anyway I would still we have our name go on record did pass today yeah because they pulled it off then they put it back on so I think it might still have meaning to send it okay any they might and they might amend it you know they might they might decide that uh some of these points are valid and make always not the end of doesn't have to be the end of all end the we should definitely be in case anything gets grandfa or we should pass it let's absolutely pass it any other discussion on the day it's about this roll call counc Casio absolutely councilman Sears yes councilman Omen yes Council M valz yes ma'am council president yes motion to adjourn to the conference agenda so move second all in favor I I next special B budget meeting of the township Council will be on March 20th 2024 beginning at 7M conference agenda um this whole big is online now or is she not on yet there she is she is hello Hi how are you good how are you good good good so I'm just saying we want to touch um touch base with the different options for re vers re assessment yeah we so one of the questions that came up was how do we put our how do we put the Township in the same um the same on the same footing as Westwood because it's been brought to our attention that they're doing the 20 20% of the re rolling assessments right so which best fulfills that and and gives us the best for our residents we want to be on a level field okay yeah understood mrle numbers are dead on so unfortunately they are but right there's a big disparity between our taxes and their taxes for the school board so the second question we had miss holding was is who determines that the um the formula that's used for our school taxes versus Westwood school taxes is that done in your office or is that done by somebody that we can to make sure it's being done properly is that done by our auditor do you know like would who would audit that to make sure that we're paying right yeah I do not have a hand with formulating tax rates um the only data that is pulled from from my office is the total aggregate which is equalized I'm not quite sure um how the formula what exactly is in the formula aside from the equalized value from my aggregate but other than that um I I wouldn't want to mislead with any answer when that's not quite m field um I think it would be a great idea to have whatever data you can get for both Westwood and Washington and for previous years to really analyze to see where the differences are um within that formula to see where you know why there's a disparity with that um you know as far as their reassessment for Westwood we're on year nine so we're in the second cycle of the um multi-year reassessment I think that is the way to go you're maintaining 100% each and every year capturing what the current market is um I would I would suggest either option um was it the fiveyear option the complete reassessment followed by a fiveyear or followed by a four-year the only differences with that is going to be you get one extra year of service of course it's going to cost more at the end but you get an extra year service opposed to um just the five it would be a six year total we could do six you said right which correct right so that's the we start does that start the the original 20% in the sixth year like right now we're gonna do we're let's just say we're gonna go one to 20 20 to 40 everybody knows how to divide by five but I'm saying would it would you only do would you start the year the people that got done this year would they be started again on the sixth year then would that be the cycle so it it's not necessarily works out that way sometimes you end up being in the front end it of it opposed to how early you were inspected on the first year it's just all depending where you're falling in there maybe have to be a sale property to be pushed you ahead of time to be inspected a part of that 20% cycle um you know the first year again 100% gets inspected years two through five or or two through four whichever option you go with it just depending you know where you end up in that cycle you may end up in year three you may end up in year four um but everyone will be reinspected so would you recommend the fiveyear cycle or the sixe cycle I mean the the positive of the six year is you get an extra year of maintaining that 100% and keeping with the market big that's a big benefit to US versus absolutely absolutely just for the record Mr corkrin just joined us I just want to put it on the record thanks good evening Mr cor good evening I have a question Sarah where is Westwood on their cycle right now they're we're on we just entered year nine so we're on the're a second new contract we're on year nine total okay so with this the second new contract that started this year for them uh their second contract started in 2022 tax year yeah on year four or five of the second cycle so so if we would have started this two years ago when this when the county asked us to start we could technically be in cycle three uh we still would kind of be behind because Westwood did 100% in 2017 and then they did 25% four years and then this second cycle is 20% for five years that's my question um we only have to do one complete and then as long as we continue to do uh 20 25% or 20% uh we can continue to roll that forward we don't have to do a 100% again that is correct and that's the beauty of it is you're really just paying what we call a maintenance of it that's why it's such a lesser amount for each subsequent year um opposed to starting from square one and outp putting the2 200 and some thousand to do a 100% again the no I'm just the the plus two years of being at 100% the 230 is the Baseline for the full reassessment and then for a 4-year role it's 60k per year correct I thought and I can't put my hands on it for the fiveyear what does that 60 go down to it was nominal I thought uh yeah it went down to 55,000 a year it's it's n nominal savings each year but you do get an extra year of maintaining that market but in order for us to to have a Competitive Edge and and keep the the the the school taxes from increasing so drastically as such a a big disparity the longer we can keep it at 100% hopefully the more beneficial is to our residents correct right at the end of the day the the goal is to be close as possible to 100% market value um keeping the values consistent with the market that's why Westwood automatically went to a second cycle once the first cycle exactly okay any other questions on the days Miss U Sarah one one question I know you you answered this before you have any direction or understanding on how the school calculates why Township pays more money than westw no I do not I I the only part of the formula that I I'm aware of and that I have a hand in is the aggregate value that gets equalized and that's pulled directly from you know it's a total aggregate value of the town that gets equalized by utilizing the ratio the other portion of the formula I do not know um as mentioned I don't formulate tax rates that's coming right off the county tax RS the tax rates for that and that was my second question is it coming off the county tax R the the the school taxes are basically a bill sent to you from the county right or from the school board saying this is what you are right the school board would have a hand with that maybe they someone could help us with that understanding of the exact formula to give a better Insight I'm I'm very I'm very leaning toward the you know 100% with the six-year maintenance plan because it keeps at 100% it's unfortunately it's going to cost us money to save money if that makes any sense in the long run in the long yeah yes you know but if we could see these savings if we start seeing any savings rather than the you know the adverse you know we always get the increases they always get the massive decreases so anything to help us I think is is warranted at this point in time um and it's you know School tax 67% is 67% that's huge so when we see a a big increase it's oftentimes to the schools I'm not saying they don't need it but that's where we're seeing a big increase in our taxes so I I I I you know my preference is why we have missig I would I would prefer to go the one the 100% with the six-year maintenance because that gives our residents the best uh ability to rein in these these costs because you get the $5,000 savings over the four years so you're saving 20,000 so that'll go toward the 55 and so it's only really cling to 35 if you do it the other way it's cling to 60 a year so you are saving a little to save for that last that six cycle it's still a big expensive proposition and that's that's unfortunately what we're gonna have to deal with just we have one other question got I'm sorad somebody was talking to the edge um in the reval in the reval option uh it's discussed that a overhaul of the Township tax maps must be done and I think at the time uh there was a a number thrown out of possibly up to 100K do the tax maps need to be redone in this option no when you do a reassessment that's not required so the numbers the 23 30 + 60 or the 230 plus 55 that's the all-in cost correct one more comment please yes let's also be reminded that we do not want to be forced by the county while we still can hold absolutely control County would do a full revaluation which would then inter another $100,000 in cost with a tax match roughly and any fees be associated with so if we can do this without County inter interference yeah we need to keep all these school taxes they're they're getting out of hand you know not to say that the schools don't need it but it does need to be it's a shared service then let's make it a shared cost I I do think and I appreciate Mr stickle you know comments and but do we really do we know like what and not that we shouldn't do it because we are you know we're probably going to get uh to your point uh councilwoman you know the county is going to come in here and tell us to do it so we should do it while we have the option to move it forward I think though that you know we should really understand what the potential impact is because we're looking at this like or our school taxes are going to go down no I don't think that's that we're we're hoping they go down I don't think it's it's a guarantee I think I asked missig this last time yes that it's a guarantee that our school taxes go down uh you know right hopefully hopefully the disparity between the rate is of their their taxes going down and ours going up balances out more it's more consistent between the two municipalities but I don't think we're going to see the $450 um reductions but it may stop being hey hours went up 280s and theirs went down 480 you know so maybe ours went up 10 and theirs went up 10 or something long long term we'll see more long term yeah because unfortunately their denominator is a lot bigger than hours and that's they have a lot more ratables than we do and you know they have a lot more they have a lot more to go around than we do you know we're stuck at you know 3,300 whatever homes with they've got a big business district and all that that pays a lot of taxes that we don't have oh the way this COA thing's working out we may have more than three 3300 homes 10 yeah do um is is it uh or ordained or is there an ordinance or you know how is that school calculation created that's the same question that we've been talking about no I I don't I don't know how it was created I think the answer is U that we should um the Vincy firm is going to know that pretty easily and and know also what the uh procedures would be if you could challenge it but the other ones that that that are are really into that and I'm sure they give us the information on that there's no ordinance I believe it's probably U well I don't want to say what it might be but I think the the we have to go to the source and I think the source would be to go to the uh to the to Gary vincy's firm Mr Alman there's a lot of Sur Mr Alman there's a lot of surrounding districts in our area that have sued each other for this funding it's a set formula by the Department of Education so it's yeah it's set by them State Mand it's state Mand it's a state mandated formula and a lot of our local school districts you know in ad joint in in adjoining towns have gone to court over this formula and lost some some have thought they prevailed and then they ended up losing in the end but there's a lot of history on it if you if you read up on it but it is a from what I've read in the in the suits that I've been able to uh look up online is it's a state mandated formula for the district okay it's not like the B it's not like the board of education is setting the formula it's by the Department of Education okay any other discussion thank you Miss H appreciate doing it again for the second time worries thank I think I think it's a third time third time I was only here for two so thank you for third time a charm that's right tonight so thank you have a good have a good night motion to enter into Clos session do I have a motion second all in favor we're coming back yes I for the budget Council we reconvene to the public once the uh closed session matter is uh resolution number 24-25 update pending litigation from Mr par we have a motion from Mr Casio right and a second Mr SE and second for Mr C all in favor I we will go into close session I just got to if we could take a quick little e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e for e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Sarah can you hear us I can yes thank you Sarah so Finance Tax assess assess notification 4-1-2 0-150 d460 2750 requested 2750 recommended do I have a motion second any discussion I'm okay with it I'm sorry was doing this Mr CIO and Mr Sears thank you very much 2750 yes wait for discussion just to bring Council back up it was tabled last time because there was a question as to whether the postage uh was price amount was included in the 2750 and this whole big um confirmed that it is it is included it is included it's not accounted for my admin postage line okay I'll make motion to approv Second yeah we're in discussion right now so I'm done discussing what El there to say ired by the state postage is the postage St any discussion No Sir Mr alond roll call no CIO yes councilman seers yes councilman Omen yes councilwoman bz yes and council president Des yes Finance Tax Assessor Appraisal Services 4-01 20- 150-500 10,000 requested 10,000 recommended do have a motion second any discussion I guess my only question is it really wasn't spent 21 but this is where we just discussed leaving it so I just where that's gone up 10 grand the last two not that I don't want to fund it but are you looking for a little explanation uh no not really this interesting I think unfortunately it's like Insurance hopefully you don't have to use roll over to Surplus last year any other discussion no sir no can't see Mr Almond's face no good roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears yes um councilman Alman yes Council W vales yes council president Desa yes 2024 reassessment program 4-0 1-20-1 153-20 230 require is 230 recommended I'll make a motion to approve it second is that the six year that's I was just going to ask Mig so is that the six year amount missig or is that not the six year amount um yes that would be the amount that would be for the first year the two okay so doesn't matter we would just but we want to we want to just make sure we enter into an agreement or go out to bid for the six-year option correct Council yes is that correct Council yes is that yes so the 230 is an estimate we for it yes hopefully Miss holig will get us a cheaper number there's no State contract well miss miss holig did you have a conversation with our qpa she had informed me that there may be actually a contract or a co-op for this much sure yeah I sent I am I just speak with her briefly I sent some sample um contracts that I found from other municipalities um for when they went out to bid we'll follow up with the council with so there may be a state contract there may be yeah okay yeah let you know all right thank you thank you m any discussion I'm just happy that this Council has taken the uh the directive to get this done after waiting two years to get this done so thankful for that are are we gonna keep the no we can finish this line which one mrman the assessment the 230 the 230 where's 23 yeah 230,000 yes we're going to keep the yeah the motion was to the 230 requested the 230 recommend then we get a second have a second second I thought you guys made myself so yeah roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears yes councilman yes Council valz yes counc president to Senate yes all right we're going to Ken stuff will skip Mr Dar Carlo we'll get to the fireman since they've been waiting patiently for us thank you sir that's okay thank you s thank you Sarah thank you have a good evening me too so we're going to page 33 um which starts the uniform fire and safety act um first one is are we doing fire prevention also with the or no we could we could is that okay it's only two on so fire prevention outside Consulting 41-25 d264 d320 18,600 requested 18,600 recommended um I have a motion I'll second it any discussion I'm sorry one second I'm yeah I'm sorry we're on page 33 33 Okay 264 I got it thank you so 186 requested 186 recommended a motion's been made seconded any discussion on the item yes I'm yes Mr Mr Mr see said first why the big increase $3,000 salaries are 18572 two inspectors and PRI were we missing somebody for the 2023 period that came in so we missing a payment Mr so no there was if you remember there was the fire prevention officer and then two fire inspectors went down to only two employees uh portion of the year but the work still need to be done so we were the the line was only share between two people at a certain point rather than three that's why you only use 15 of the 18 so are we going back to three people or are we staying at two we're staying at two but the same amount of work needs to be done so that the person that's the fire prevention officer will also receive the salary of of the fire inspector it's proportionately more time he's putting in is are they are they employees or Consultants because is this salary or is this is this an hourly rate or is this this I consider this no this is their employees the description I'm getting confused it says Consulting on the line that's why but I mean per se even though the director here we're getting into salaries which I think you wanted to hold F I assumed it was Consulting I thought it I thought it was I thought it was a bill frombody this just came out so I mean if the line is coded incorrectly and there are salaries then we should table it the proposed increase is 2% like or most of the other salaries from the 182 186 is it an outside contract or the township employees I guess that's the first question we have they Township employees so we should table this because we're not doing any salaries at this time the motion in a second you have to take it off okay I thought it was I thought it was paid outside like we just scripture that's a fair assumption fire prevention miscellaneous expense 41-25 d264 D5 4500 requested 4500 recommended do I have a motion second any discussion what are we anticipating there in terms of an increase last year it was expected that the state was going to uh change the codes uh that never happened um he said uh the Fire official I spoke to uh it's expected to be done by the summer of this year when that happens new books and a program update will be needed um fire preven material is needed for an open house later this year there's an arson class coming up this year and it's a cost of $900 per person he's hoping that himself and the uh the other inspector can go for that class and he also wants to purchase a couple of gas meters for them to have while conducted inspections as well as a couple radios nothing overly expensive but it all adds up uh it also should be noted that the fire prevention brought in over 13,000 last year ask that's on set right yeah excuse me before we go any further can you guys just tell me who's here so we have for the record from the fire department please bill bil is fire director Zach meos fire chief Frank aell deputy chief Chris Campo battalion chief thank you any further discussion on this the is this a sell fund yeah Mr Billy said he brought in 13,000 like I don't have the exact I heard you say 13 I'm Sor it's approximately 13 give take a do so I guess my question is do they have access to that full 13 no goes into the general R okay okay I'm okay with 4500 any other discussion the uh enforces is that the system that would be updated that is the system he uses yeah so I'm not 100% what the code program is I'd be lying if I said that's that's exactly what need to be updated okay yeah but he was expecting it to happen last year which would have been added expense and you know that's why he didn't use the whole line he is expecting it to be done this year any other discussion how long is that certification good for no I didn't hopefully that hope it's good for a couple years and we don't have to spend on yeah I don't I don't think it's happened about a few years okay thank you roll call Council Casio yes councilman sear recuse myself from voting councilman nman yes Council valz yes and council president Des yes we're going to skip the director because that's a salary we will go to fire department 41-25 d265 d210 requested 700 recommended do I have a motion so move second well should you move it Mr he can move it to move okay any discussion ladies and gentlemen um can we cut it uh by 70 so we budgeted at 700 based off the amount of printer in that we have been going through over the past couple years and over each year printer in is getting more expensive right now we're running excuse me three printers um and uh heavy duty copy machine that we're running a b copies out of and then it's just a general pens any other necessary office supplies that we may need over the course of the here is and also you uh increase your um inspections your inspection sheets you now have a working boat that needs to be inspected you have other uh well they would need it to print out the uh inspection sheets oh you know we they do it on a a Monday morning Monday evening so that increase would be needed for you know the boats the special tools that are in they will have to be checked so I can see the increase it's $30 increase I mean it's it's not a breaker but uh you do two sheets a night and you vote and then you have now you have the pickup truck so that's an added another added sheet to be printed out to be checked so I I would keep it at 700 um Mr President anyone want to entertain uh Mr alman's request of reducing it to 6:30 so the motion for 700 um any other discussion V call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears recuse myself in voting councilman Omen no council bz yes council president to sen yes fire department dues meetings and conferences 4-0 1-25 d265 d250 1,00 requested 1,000 recommended do I have a motion so moved second discussion I was going to ask I guess in the 2021 it was only 250 is that because of covid related uh non-travel expenses and we didn't use it I cannot answer that entirely I don't recall was going on but that could be one of the things for that seems like it's a fixed fee for the is for the association yes so it's fixed okay any other discussion roll call councilman CIO yes councilman SE recuse myself from voting councilman Alman yes councilman valz yes council president de yes fire department SCBA fit test calibration 4- 01-25-20 5-27 250 requested 250 recommended do I have a motion motion to accept I'll second it any discussion is there a reason why it wasn't done last year it uh the machine didn't need calibration is it a two-year Cali is it a twoyear calibration no it's it it's every year but the machine was uh I don't want to say damaged wasn't working properly so it was out for service oh so they just cover when they serviced it they covered it in the service cost that it didn't come out of our funding what happens you gets passed around from Department to department and we actually need to recalibrate it and test it when we get so it might go through W pasak Valley within a couple of months and then we wind up that you it's a shared item yeah it's a shared service thing so when it ends up in Township we have to calibrate it if it's not calibrated recently correct well we may get calibration cost through the whole valley that's oh so it's a contractual right any other discussion down no I'm good with it Roll Call Council Casio yes councilman Sears we choose myself from voting councilman Omen yes Council W bz yes council president TOA yes fire department office furniture and Equipment 40125 26530 1500 requested 1500 recommended do I have a motion so moved the second discussion yeah what would this be for so our printer in our new radio room is a little out of date we're looking into replacing that this year to be a combination printer and fax machine as we currently don't have a fax and secondly we need to finish outfitting our bunk rooms which we started doing with last year's budget and would like to finalize it this year so may I also add to that council president that the police department has moved one of the radios over there and that's taking up space where they would need Furniture to handle you know the police um dispatch radio this fails they'll be moving the the backup R EMS yeah firehouse has always been a backup Dispatch Center so they are outting with a new new radio but that you know those expenses wouldn't they be under the radio expense or no no the radio was part of something else I last yeah Mike I think most of that is under the police budget the the backup the new ESP any other discussion you good Mr roll councilman CIO yes councilman sear we recuse myself from voting Council mman yes Council valz yes council president to sener yes fire department radio expense 40125 26536 zero 9,000 requested 9,000 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion what is this for Mr bil or chief whatever so the radio expense line covers all of our Portables mobile radios and it also is a line that covers our pagers that all of our members carry so the N you know the 9,000 it realistically covers the replacement of one portable and in the event that nothing happens to affortable we are we are upfitting or re outfitting our members with newer updated pagers as the some of the pagers that our members have are out of date we can't get replacement batteries or any replacement parts for so last year did we are we missing a bill Mr darara or was that the the full spend 7500 approximately 7500 nothing I'm aware of should be that was the final SP we bought Pages at the end of the year it's an item that we like to hold on to the amount so later months because like he said if it portable breaks you have to replace it that that eats up the whole 9,000 each portable that we carry now is about 11,000 roughly so we carry cover what's the life span oh well honestly we we'll get about 15 20 years out of these okay do you have a uh sort of a proactive replacement schedule as opposed to waiting for it to break and if it doesn't break you know let's buy pagers so you know I I would imagine the communication is probably one of the most important things that you do right yes with each other so you know we're certainly looking as you know to cut expense but at the same time I think we should also be proactive in understanding what your expense and the useful life of your equipment is so you know if not this year you know is it something we should consider or you know work on this year for next year's budget in looking at these pagers these portable radios and if there's something that needs to be done more proactively uh for the replacement rather than you know someone dropping it or being damaged in the line of a a call right so we I believe have maybe like 15 sixes no left like of the four and fives oh yeah Prett my head about 19 um you know the best thing I can sum this up with is is that so we Min motor Mi pagers they come in minute four four or five they started at one and they're up to minute six the sixes have been out now for about nine years um we slowly purchased some of them because I mean our fives and fours still work they still activate the problem that we're having is that they don't make batteries for them anymore you can't get batteries you can't get replacement parts for them so our four the fours are pretty much their paper weights uh the F the fives that guys that still have them battery still works it's still working but if it stops working it's have nothing to give him so that's why we're looking to upgrade everyone to getting into a six that because right now that's the current model for Motorola um we probably have we need to purchase more this year and we should be able to complete our department this year with the m as the chief said you know if one does break or if a radio does break of some you know you need to have money there to be able to fix it you know instead of coming to you guys for emergency Appropriations k please keep in mind that you know these portable radios are now working on the new County channels corre where our old radios don't work on it they don't work on it so we actually migrated to the the county uh Channels with these new radios that that function 100% of a lot better than what we had so the answer part of that question was the Portables are fairly new that was part of that count upgrade so it should last us a while I don't think we need to set a plan yet to start replacing okay I think we're okay in that I guess I think well Mr last time we both sat up here we ended up having to buy a 100 uh packs in one shop right because they were all they were all being not certified more so trying to avoid that happening again right so that was a while ago yeah I say the last time we sat up here that's what happened so yeah so we want to just avoid that right I think that's so well at one time we had a we had a a running fund and if we didn't use it it would be in that line item so when you needed it and that's something I think you know every year it's radios radios radios whether this police fire whoever so they're they're super important no doubt about it so maybe we should have a a fund set away somewhere where if we're going to fund it and we don't need it that year it goes towards the next year when one or two does break that would be the smart way to do it instead of just doing 9,000 every year so may year we think about that that's addition you know a rainy day fund for for communications since they're so expensive can can I ask the 6100 last year approximately how many um sixes did that buy where are you reading 6100 Trail there's a a line for uh monitor or what Motorola six pagers for 6,100 uh last year we bought 14 don't quote me on this I think it was 14 pagers and 11 portable batteries yes looks like there's a big battery line um and how many of the is it four uh level four FES level fives he's got remaining how many level fives you have remaining uh level five um roughly about 19 and I but I still have fours in service as well and how many of those without having my spreadsheet in front of me um it' be on the safe side of yeah like I'd say between four to seven so you have like 26 remaining to be put to the sixes roughly yes and I'm sorry just one last question what's the the approximate life of one of these Pages assuming it's not damaged I've had yes same as radio I've had this pager now for what was this was that a four this is a six this is a six so I've had this pager now since uh see Pete Adam's year we six seven years so this is seven years right now you know and it's it it will go it will go until you know they stop making batteries it's pretty much usually the batteries that go we buy replacement batteries as again we also bought actually we did we bought spare batteries for these as well last year um so as soon as they stop making batteries is when you're kind of stuck where you have to buy new P that's the first thing that go on batteries so I mean and you know what they they get they have to get yeah no that's that's I I would I mean I don't know if it's a priority but I would prefer to see us fund this a little stronger and buy more pagers so we get rid of the old fours yeah but if the fours are working right they're working well the problem with the fours and he's correct the the button on the top is shot U if I if I take my pager out of guys out so I have to we want to add enough to buy seven more sixes to get rid of all the fours and call well if they bought 16 last year for 6,100 yeah need to buy 27 right is that 14 last year 14 14 last year 14 for 6100 you said I'm just saying maybe about $600 each and there's a waiting period I'm still waiting on them just so you know we put that order in back in July we don't even have them we don't have them yet there there's about a almost a year waiting list on on this from Motorola even if we put the extra money in there it's not going to matter not going to get them for another year the only on that well I mean okay we could leave it as is I just think that I think you're right as we go through the rest of this we should think about bumping this up you know maybe proactively retiring some of those older ones yep is that the game plan this year Chief to retire the fours when the when those sixes come in so make a motion for 6,000 no for 9,000 9,000 no it's 9,000 do you want to buff to 9,000 up that's what what about we'll do 12,000 or 3,000 that you bought three I'm okay six bought 14 yeah so 30 bu seven yeah so that's 21 almost get you all sixes yeah everybody okay with Mr Alman making that 12,000 yeah I'll second it all right thank you Mr but I would just like to say that understanding you wait a good period of time before in the event that one of the Portables goes down that we do use it in its entirety to buy to get rid of the fours and get sixes so we have a motion from Mr Alman to increase line 360 to $122,000 and Mrs I well MZ asked for 3,000 yeah so 12,000 plus 3,000 for this line item making it 12,000 uh roll call so you have me confused who you want to put down as a motion Mr rman wanted to add more M BL did the math did the math Council massio yes councilman Sears recuse myself from voting councilman Omen yes Council bz yes coun president Des sen yes Fire Department dispatch Services 40125 265 365 2200 requested 2200 recommended do I have a motion so move second any discussion can you explain what that is exactly yeah so dispatch Services covers our iron responding system is a secondary notification system for all of our members is this contract you uh yes right now the last contract was a one-year contract so I have to renew in August is going to it should be under the 22 or open uh fallar yet but it also encompasses a second system we have called codes it's developed by a fireman up in Mawa it is used for credits logging and it is now uh New Jersey state ifers compliant okay which is where we have to send our reports every year I'm okay any discussion ladies and gentlemen that second system goes into dispatch yeah because so the way the way it works is is when we get dispatched from the police department it actually will send a cad incident through to our uh tablets and that is going to be the way we going forward report our calls rather then at 7:33 this evening when Mr Sear's telephone went off no it didn't that's that's the uh that's that system can you can you actually understand it now because I remember last time I was on councel you get that call legible is it a because I know on your phone it was like just car some sometimes there's some interference um but we have corrected good that's good to hear any other discussion ladies and gentlemen councilman Casio yes councilman Sears recuse myself from voting councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to Senate yes Fire Department training 40125 265 370 2,000 requested 2,000 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion what's we have no training last year we spent little money so if you I'll answer that question um we had scheduled uh we we wanted to do a boat class their new boat and get all of our members trained um how to use it properly fortunately the US Coast Guard the only class I could get was in January and as Mr Dar Carlo told us that we couldn't use 23's budget for a 24 for a class that was being held in 24 so we Lo we lost that money pretty much you know that's really what it came down to it was schedule comp um take that this year oh absolutely so I I have this you know the quote here from the US Coast Guard um will that class be as soon as I got a budget it's uh you know it's a $50 a student you know roughly 25 students so was $1,250 right there okay and then it was tentatively scheduled for last year and the they canel I'm just saying I don't want it to happen again where it's in January of 25 both training in January that one train was approximately 1300 yeah you just said it was $50 a person so okay any other discussion ladies and gentlemen on this item what are the training uh C uh I keep saying Campo champo Captain champo we uh we we have him in come in and give a tower ladder operations class that's where you see the $375 um he has many different classes that he teaches he's very informative um we actually we were hosting and we had other Valley towns find out that we were doing and they were calling us if they could get into our class um so that that is definitely going to happen again this year as well okay great any other discussion no R councilman CIO yes councilman seers we chose myself V councilman Omen seat then Council yes council president to Sen Fire Department uniform and safety equipment 40125 265 400 12,000 requested 12,000 recommended do I have a motion so moved second any discussion why you why we spend less last year uh last year's expenses were not up to the 12 due to us running out of time and spending our budget we were told we were out come December we're trying to spend a little more didn't work in our favor so we do have a few things already in line that we're looking to get done this year on top of having to outfit I believe we have four members that we have to get new uh new members that need dress uniforms do is there a reason we we closed them out December Mr corpin you're is there a reason we didn't let him expend some money in December is there a reason for that to be honest with you I'm not really familiar with this CC pres have to this do you mind asking the question again I was I was jumped ahead the the the the fire department said that they were locked out of the system in December and not able to make purchases in December so the the initial question is why didn't we spend the full amount in the budget and the response was they were locked Out Of The Bu locked out of spending money in De they weren't locked out but at certain increments we start reducing spending without approval and then by December 15th it's no no spending unless it's an emergency okay that's that's understandable so you have a you have a need or an expectation that the 12,000 will be utilized yes any additional discussion no just call you good yeah call Council massio yes councilman ears re excuse myself from voting Council Omen yes Council wz yes council president Desa yes fire department o oxygen and fire extinguishers 40125 265 410 1 12200 requested 12200 recommended motion so move I'll second any reason we only spent half the budget last year and we're asking for more this year the increase this year is us having to pay for the inspection of our Hood system and our kitchen it should be it should be there it should be there I believe it was taken out I can actually explain that one um they actually literally just sent me the sign po last week so it hasn't that that that hasn't been paid yet the the hood yeah the reliable fire protection literally just sent me this timeo last week so that's why it hasn't hit this sheet also there's a 20123 expense missing on sheet of like $618 so that would get you closer to $1,000 yes the fire department can't expect their own fire safety not the fire not the kitchen Hood uh the whole anel system and the kitchen hood that we have you need a certain license for to inspected okay any other discussion roll call councilman Cassio yes councilman Sears accuse myself councilman Omen yes Council bz yes Council president to s yes ESB building maintenance 40125 26545 maintenance Bond ending September 23rd 2024 15,000 requested 15,000 recommended do I have a motion so second discussion how come we went over budget last year by so much so I'll answer that we had to end up starting to pay for elevator uh maintenance we had to pay for generator maintenance between the two of them it accounts for almost $5,000 uh we also had to do uh the air permit which was $95 that won't have to be paid this year I believe it's a fiveyear uh permit but we will be on the hook for the elevator expense and the jator expense and one as you know from my Note come September 24th we're no longer under the maintenance Bond a big building it is a new building but you know we have no idea what we might be you know responsible for now that the bond is over have we asked the architect to come in and do a full review before the maintenance Bond expires so we can make sure that there's nothing of any magnitude that is not caught before the mondire yes I spoke to them they're coming in the next couple weeks thank you any other discussion ladies and gentlemen oops um is the just hold on one second oh the uh AC and heater maintenance is in there yes generator too yes he said I'm sorry you said the generator and the elevator in oh I elator okay any other discussion I'm okay with the 15 good does this handle the ambulance for part of the building also Mr De Carlo is this oh yes this entire building this is the full building so we're not going to get no okay full building the price is the whole shared of the whole building I want to make sure we're not getting like half and half you deal with your part and we did pay for the hood inspection where there's a line for the hood inspection from last year it's just looks like it's in this line not in the other line a different line and the idea put it in this line it's shown is open just so you know I guess it was reliable fire protection is that right so kitchen inspection fireh hood and then system service it was all part of the same P from August 31st yes any other discussion ladies and Gentlemen Just What have what are we doing with our garbage because we so we were able to save money we used to be paid buo but we purchased our own um what do you call those I know but it's like how big is it yeah there's two of them yes so it's uh garbage for the whole entire building and now our DPW um dumps the garbage so we saved money there as you can tell it was almost $400 a month y compliment once in a while would you know go a long way go ahead Mr I mean we have I I guess the question I have is and somewhat rhetorical is we have generator maintenance uh AC maintenance elevator maintenance um you know what else are we anticipating uh you know it's a brand new building uh you know guess in response to the maintenance Bond ending is there maintenance that they're doing that the Builder is doing now or is there anything being done by the build or that no the these these maintenance agreements for like the generator has nothing to do with the maintenance Bond or or the wh and and IES that we have for the systems as you can imagine they're huge systems and they come in and um they service them once in the fall once in the spring the generator has four servicing throughout the year with one of the four being a major component where they change the oil and everything it's all all requirements that we need is that you can imagine the Otis Elevator uh for the elevator inspection to make sure that's working properly um so between the three things you're looking at three you know like $8,000 a little bit more than $8,000 for them but you know nothing to do with the contractor or anything wrong that the contractor did at all yeah we do the same thing here we have a generator here we have the elevator here and then we also have the maintenance agreement with wh and and iives and doing so gives us access to a cheaper half hourly rate by having the agreement with wh and and I so I would recommend giving the fact that uh there's almost $2,000 in bulldo expenses that aren't going to recur that we lower the 15,000 we just respectfully remember now come September we don't know what will happen with the building so that's you know anticipation I appreciate that but I'm also hoping that after such a uh lengthy and expensive bill that's we won't have to deal you want to put it back to the 2023 amount Mr Alman is that what your motion is I would the 13,000 I would take the 10 I would take 10% off to 135 135 that's my motion council president if I may just one more stab at this you asked at the beginning why we went over budget and that's without that's with having a maintenance Bond so if you reduce it down to 13,000 that is a humongous building 135 yes 135 I'm asking for 15 I think it's more than reasonable for Yong us building like that thank you thank you Mr P Mr almond made a motion to reduce this line uh 450 to 13,500 do I have a second I'll second so reducing the 15 $0000 roll call Council M Cassio yes councilman Sears I would like to say no but I have to recuse myself councilman Omen yes Council mes yes I'm sorry no sorry council president to senum yes fire department equipment purchases 40125 265 490 5,000 requested 5,000 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion what equipment purchases are we looking at for 2024 uh we are looking to replace all of our outdated water gear for the new boat for the new boat for the new boat pfds safety helmets life fests and that off the bat is about 3600 so that's a big dent into the 5,000 I don't have any issue with the 5,000 does anybody have any issue with the 5,000 I'll second your 5,000 now we have councilman Cassio and councilman sear discussing okay we were just discussing I was okay with it mrman any discussion no roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears we myself Council Elman uh yes Council valz yes council president to sener yes fire department miscellaneous 40125 265-5500 requested 1500 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion any reason we went so far over budget Mr DEA or I'd have to look sir is this the line where getting paint and stuff like that yeah it's kind of just that broad line that allows us to get any thing that we might need that doesn't Encompass one specific one printing ink uh physicals uh safety equipment inspections cell phones are hooked up to this too clean fluid should should Verizon bills Bey on here Mr Dar is that a or Mr cor or is that a the rest of them Mak sense but I don't know about the Verizon it's reversed out I think if you look there's three lines it goes 50 1500 123 33 1233 back to 1500 yeah that was a correction that we made when we did our review I think you uh guys exceeded your for your medical line and I think you had to take right yep yeah $280 a physic yeah you had two fiscals in there three three yeah three three ready this year yeah is that just for new uh members new junior members and new fulltime so both of them would require both anybody knew was going to require it are we expecting really don't know how many people going to join right I would almost be in to add some money to this yeah four new members already we have three physical that2 right that's $1200 a line so we have to we could look at that and bump it up if necessary oh okay because they're building physical to this line so is that a charge not to that line but I'm just saying I'm well that's why we were saying line went over because you had physicals got charged to this line so it's a miscellaneous line you probably went over cumber our physical line line foral gotta part the control line they just put it there I'm just we do have a good number of younger members we' had last couple good good to see excellent to see oh yeah you do have it's line 0000 later on in 271 so any other discussion on this line gent ladies no roll call Council Casio yes councilman Sears re choose myself councilman Alman yes councilman blz yes council president to sen yes car department inspection and chief dinner for 0125 26556 10,000 requested 12,000 recommended I motion so move second discussion I would recommend that we uh reduce it to 9,000 I motion for 9,000 you motion for 9,000 do have a second I'll make a motion to keep it at the 10,000 requested I'll second that any further discussion yes we are we're not accounting for the increase of what all these uh restaurants get U are producing for you know 10,000 was great two years ago 10,000 isn't good this year the food has gone up and as everybody know the last expense was quite high from the uh normal place we do go to in the second place we're looking at it was just as high as the place we're going um 2,000 is well they requested out was 10 here so that's what we're but I think the projective was that we should compensate for the increase of services that these uh restaurants are giving us you know foodwise but that's all I have to say council president may I make a comment since I increased it over there ask sure Mr um I did because um they're too proud to ask for an increase in that line but I feel it's welld deserved uh they're all volunteers absolutely they put in a lot of time uh as we all know we've been to their event many times it's excellent uh event to for the town to show its appreciation uh if we ever had to go to a paid service you know this 2,000 would be a drop in the bucket uh and so that was my reasoning to increase it from what they requested to uh to the 12,000 I recommend it this this line also covers two dinners um we do plan on going back to an inspection dinner this year we haven't had it because of the construction okay um we couldn't use the room last year and until CMO was complete and um oh that's the one two line so that was the one you had upstairs years ago yes and that's the plan in May I believe so just to be clear in the past the 10,000 was just for the chief's dinner no it's both I'm saying for 2023 it was just a yeah yeah yeah okay but 22 the rest of the funding which is more than double that comes out of our general fund we I believe our president spoke here council meeting recently stating that you know he sell Christmas trees the money that made take Christmas trees goes right into that DIN and we all know how the economy is going and the fundraising is not coming in like it used to I mean I'll motion for the 12,000 I didn't realize initially that it's now two separate dinners so I'll motion for the 12,000 I'll second that he discussion is your motion on Force still for 10 all I have a motion well I'll take back my second so I do not well I put a motion out for 10 m seconded it and that she's taking it back yes I didn't realize second to 10 can we split at 11 how do you gentleman feel about that I'll motion for Mr Les's I'll go with 11 go it looks like a road map yes it does look like a road map but so the new motion is M motioned it Dr CIO second it y any discussion on the 11 roll call okay councilman Casio yes councilman Sears I we accuse myself councilman Omen no council valz yes presid to fire department Hardware and Parts 40125 265 620 1500 requested 1500 recommended um so move just Canna ask for a motion do you have a second second discussion that's still probably going to eat to that pretty quick so I think that's a fair amount yeah May looks where it's consistent what they usually spend yeah Mr almond anything councilman Casio yes councilman sear recuse myself councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president TOA yes fire department clothing allowance 40125 26600 47,500 requested 47,500 recommended do I have a motion sh move second second any discussion yeah it was you know a little bit less last year we done have bills in or we had less members or so we have to budget that line as if every member is going to make it make their percentage at the end of the year okay so this is the max that we can spend if everybody makes their requirements so it's basically a contractual amount because if you meet if everybody if every member met their requirements this is what you'd have to spend okay any further discussion okay is it every act or every active member or the amount that you're allowed to have by your do you have a cap on your membership there might be a cap not and Junior numbers do not get get that doesn't include them the uh the old cap was 65 members and what do we currently at chief that was back in 48 yeah and I think that's been in the B forever that 65 is the max active members yeah any other discussion ladies and gentlemen roll call councilman CIO yes councilman seers I recuse myself from voting councilman yes Council valz yes council president to sener yes fire preventive maintenance trucks 40125 26700 7500 requested 7500 recommended to I have a motion so second discussion just where are these on their uh life cycle the truck sucks two two of the trucks are from 2005 um the two newer trucks are on a uh service plan yes for five years so there the engine 44 still more a year I think after this 41 power 41 has another 3 years after this and and the other two TR the reason that they increased to 7500 there are items on I believe the rescue truck that needs it's already you know scheduled to be worked on so a lot of this money spoken for and everything just keeps going on so the two engines from the engine and the rescue were 2005 Ed 43 rescue we have two engines a lad rescue truck okay Truck those 43 and 40 that came on on in 2005 um so NE this year they're 20 years old so have we started or have you started the process of thinking about replacement tell so it it has it has been discussed between the chief and I and uh a couple of other officers uh we reached out to some of the manufactures and what scares us is that um we're on a four-year waiting list so if you were to buy a truck right now you're not seeing it for four years so that it kind of scares us a little bit hoping to get you know a few more years out of the engine 43 before we would have to replace it is does that have a shorter life than the rescue yes and then the towards the end of the prior Towers life the preventative maintenance bills were you know somewhat large if I recall do we do you foresee that so director billus mentioned that a lot of this budget is already identified to use do we is 7,000 enough to maintain the truck or I'm that's for the preventive maintenance there is another one for repairs further down um so this is mainly for preventive maintenance and preventive maintenance they come they they change your oil they change the filters they make a checklist of what needs to be done that also comes out of thereo and also the rescue this year need it's a light Tower Service which has to be done every two years that's why we ask for the increase of 500 any further discussion roll call councilman Cassio yes councilman Sears re myself councilman Alman uh yes Council woman valz yes council president to s yes part I'm sorry Mike just um has it sounded like they're still in internal discussions on the replacement or thinking about the replacement of the engine is that on your is that on the administrator administration's radar to start thinking about it it certainly is in light of the lead time um because if you guys think those trucks have out a couple years but it's going to take three or four years uh you know I I don't know if they're in your future Capital plans I just don't remember off hand uh but if they're not we might want to amend that or certainly put them in for next year what we've gone through last years two trcks build this year apprciate um with that being said the same L truck that we paid almost 1.5 year and a half later was 2.2 yeah I saw that they're not going down so it is something maybe start serious looking into what what's the what's an engine go for these days really depends how you how we spec it out and have it manufacturer to make it work best for us would we buy another 44 or we buy something similar to 44 with the center console and all that I don't know the M of honestly okay yeah how much did we pay we have I'm saying but we basically replace it with a truck similar to 44 that we just bought two years ago with center console so you're safe when you're on calls and all that one truck know 43 now we're not using 44 to we use 43 we'll use the old truck down for Mutual eights um we want two Eng no h down would we be looking at different manufacturer than what we got now for vehicles yeah for every option all right so I guess mayor's comment we may have to start looking at the capital for you know for six years out because it's going to need a deposit so you know that's the problem it's going to they're going to want money before they put into production even know it's going to take them four years so yeah we usually have to buy the chassi early in the game there SL workers well because of Co right researchit this okay that's fine fire hose may I just make a quick comment yeah director Billy I appreciate what you said about the department U but let me say I don't look at it as the department uh the town owes its residence fire protection the building and the equipment you're talking about will way past their useful life so I don't want you or your members to ever think that you're costing the town the town the town you know owes that to the volunteer members to have a current building and current equipment thank you I think it was more a mental break for us yes no electric fire truck please good just the one thing I would say is rather than waiting to the next budget cycle is it something you could look at for like September I mean I guess that is the next budget site would you know come in September or October with some thoughts on it absolutely we we can get a committee together and then especially after September which is the convention yeah look that be great thank you again since that would be a capital purchase we don't necessarily have to wait for the operating budget if you get a good buy on one down there you know bring it to the council bring it to me if you know we have to address it off budget cycle I think it's something we would consider yeah the the one truck jumped 700,000 already a year and a year and a crazy then I mean that's why it's important to look at different manufacturers that's crazy 7 fire hose pump and Ladder testing 40125 267 0015 5500 requested 5500 recommended so move second um any discussion yeah one question just from 2020 to 2021 it went up almost double is that that goes or testing two things or there were two separate lines I believe one was hose one was lad we combine com got um also the increase this year is this contractual Mr Bas is this a contract roughly a contractual amount only does it right the pocket lad has to get certified certified and there's only one company Avail Bas so the 5500 basically going to pay the bill the invoice the quotes you got any further discussion ladies and gentlemen no okay councilman CIO yes councilman Sear recuse myself councilman Omen yes Council woman bad yes council president to sen yes fire department turnout gear 40125 2673 25,000 requested 25,000 recommended uh do I have a motion so move I'll second it discussion how many sets turn up gear is that roughly roughly uh five five and a half and do you rotate that through the entire NFPA requires us to replace gear on a 10year basis every 10 years you need to get a new set of gear so we have a list on the computer at the firehouse of who's coming up for what years and um even even as simple as our Chiefs Coates you know they there have to be replaced helmets have to be replaced everything is 10 years so this 25 no understood but it it's um it's a static number every year pretty much based on your replacement schedule we do our best to you space everybody out and new members too you know you come on and you're do year as probationary firefighter you have an old set of gear not old you know we'll give a 9-year-old set of gear that fits them then they have to get out with their so mix new members in with the replacement of oh that makes sense okay but this Cadence keeps it current there's no need to do a large Capital purchase if we keep this no we're actually we're getting to a point where we are able to keep newer gear in for what if scenarios uh you know I was in a fire my gear is soaking wet and I need another set of gear build another call I can grab another set but that's still in I have three Juniors that are in the academy right now the academy requires us to send them with gear that is still good like the days of setting them up there with ripped gear anymore are over so all I have gear that I can give them to go to the academy everybody is a different size these days you know like myself some skinnier you so all gear that you know that fits everyone you know it's not one size hits all you can't buy Universal size and I know you hate hearing this but price of it is going up last year there was an increase and I was told already this year that this is going to be SM any further discussion and in the past it wasn't like this one year we spent almost $60,000 on WE decid to rotate it so it works pretty well so roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears Rec myself coun yes Council valz yes council president to send yes fire St pack compliance 40125 26800 3,000 recommended 3,000 requested I'll make the motion do I have a second second discussion is there a reason for the big increase are we doing more this year yeah so the Scott pack compliance line covers our yearly flow testing of our Scot packs and it is also used for the hydro testing of our Scot bottles and this year we had I forget the exact number we have 29 Scot bottles that need to be Hydro tested which has to get done every year or I'm sorry every five years and we have a uh have a calendar set up they had to be they were done the first month of the year can't ref any further discussion roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears councilman Alman uh yes Council woman bz yes council president to sener yes fire internet 40125 2683 3,300 requested 3300 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion what what you used them previously this this line covers the uh data service for our iPads which run our uh IM responding system and also Code system and those are recent acquisitions yes okay yeah they were they were purchased uh when we moved into the new building okay thank you any further discussion roll call C Caso yes councilman Sears re choose myself councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to sen yes fireart service 40125 270000 14,500 requested 149 exact number yeah it's not in their operating and in the fire department's operating this any discussion is a violia number so we don't have a choice have they have they completed um replacement of all the out of service hydrants that are all over town for this cost I don't know I can check I don't know because I know I know last time when I was on Council there was numerous fire hydrants that were marked as you know not not in service and we said we're paying maintenance on them and a lot of them got replaced including the ones on Beach Street I know that me Mr saw that but I don't know if there's any others anywhere in town that the fire department knows of or residents know of us usually they set out an alert to the the chief to fire department can we can we get that to the to Mr D so you can reach out toia if it is the L of service it's my pep peeve we're paying for it and not you know I don't want to end up like Ridgewood and get to a fire you can't get the hying open right roll call councilman Casio yes councilman Sears recuse myself councilman Omen yes Council vales yes council president to Senate yes fire department physicals 40125 27100 1500 requested 1500 recommended to I have a motion second any discussion getting back to the that other line that we talked about well they're almost out of money you're almost out of money here CU you have four already right we we max out I'd make a recommendation we increase this 3,000 I'll second that can you second it yeah second V any discussion so we're anticipating 250 each R they've already done four right 2 yeah 28 yeah I forgot the members there saving this money any further discussion roll call councilman CIO yes councilman Sears weuse myself of voting councilman Omen yes Council bz yes council president to Senate yes length of Service Awards loap 40125 27200 95,000 requested 95,000 recommended do I have a motion so move second any discussion this is a contractual amount if everybody meets their loap requirements correct yeah so just towards the end of last year yeah I remember that there were discussions was it related to lowp or the clothing allowances clothing allowance clothing all okay so did the the Lowa payment not get made Mr Dar Carlo because not by the time this um oh made it's got to be published I think for 30 days and has it since been it's du in April usually the following year that's why that's why it's only shown 2000 I'm sorry to interrupt but I spoke to the person who who hand this they're using do April the following that's why it's only shown I just want to make sure it was paid that's all y R councilman CIO yes councilman seuse myself councilman Omen yes Council valz yes council president to yes I would like to thank you gentleman for attending tonight I know it's late council president a little premature what I know you're hoping no did you want to do their vehicles Tire where is it all right I thought good I have a couple of questions well it's not on vehicle and repairs so can can abolutely we we just go through it all and then we'll ask at the end if that works let so we're on page 44 uh vehicle maintenance fire vehicles uh tires uh 40126 3152 1500 requested 1500 recommended do I have a motion so move second discussion page we bottom the last line on page 44 the bottom line I I'll save some time um last year we requested 6,000 uh this year we requested 1500 last last year we had to replace one of the trucks completely re ties there's another um item that times out after years every seven years you have to change tires this we don't have any that's why we red truck tires so this for a blowout or an emergency tire repair exactly maybe one of the we left 15 just for the price of the tires trucks any discussion ladies and gentlemen roll call Council M Casio yes councilman sear reuse councilman nman yes Council bz yes council president to yes fire vehicles uh equipment and repairs 40126 315 005 25,000 requested 25,000 recommended do I have a motion sove second discussion you find it yeah you know is this the result of the PM reviews cor for the most part and and also equipment repairs so I four guas meters um saws saws anything like that comes out of that l l on them as well just include Expendable like blades and all that kind of stuff no that comes out of hardware parts okay that comes out of hardware parts okay but we as it like right now I have right here that I have to submit to Dina $1,910 for ES side um that's our hro Jaws for to get their preventive maintenance done um and there was also stuff from last year that we didn't get to fix we went through the the PM list of the knock list and make sure all the important things got done there were some things that didn't get done and just because we ran out of money that line item so we're just like we'll wait till next year we get those done next year okay any further discussion ladies and gentlemen roll call Council cassum yes councilman Sears recuse myself councilman Omen yes Council woman bz yes council president Des yes did you want do gasoline what's that where's gasoline [Music] 57 to keep you here keep our pass no that was my next one but you once you go past you can't go fire department gasoline diesel 40131 46002 6,000 requested 6,000 recommended uh do I have a motion check it m motion it's on the second line up from the bottom on page 57 you go to to County to yes so there is a contractual guess we're estimating how many gallons we're getting but we have a price from the county correct correct coun and Council yes 6000 talking yep any discussion counc Casio councilman Sears myself councilman Alman uh yes Council bz yes council president to set yes are we done now Mr do do you want to do their energy consumption their natural gas and their electricity no that's not that's that's a town expense then you are finished thank you thank you mrman have questions I'm sorry just um do you have to test the bail out here is that a requirement we have to test MERS the members have to recertify bail out but we don't test the actual equipment okay the equipment does not have to be tested as far as I know I'd have to look reach out to our once once it's used we once it's used in a real life scenario if we had to rep out the window you are not supposed to use it again does it have a shelf life not that I'm aware of what's that nothing that I'm aware of I would have to ask the guy that shouldn't our training I'm just I just want to make because I mean with the with the York City fireman you know with the lithium ion batteries is craziness you know they they they they made national news because they saved what four people with the bail here so I think if we if we can find out if it's got a sh and has to beer cleaning of the bu in house there's no expense to it so so water eny and then just the Scott packs so when I in my prior uh you know we had these big expenses that we capitalized do we have a plan for their about five years ago think we started with 10 sets of Scot packs we each year purchase five five sets with had to be purchased with two bottles um we just finished purchasing this year the last last so we are good for now when do they expire roughly roughly 15 years so we got to good another 10 11 years before we have to consider starting to replace the first 10 and the bottles have to be replaced after 15 they get hydro every five years ex thank you okay now there was one period of time I think we we purchased a lot of bottles times7 and that's why we had to get almost 30 of them hydro tested this year okay any other questions with ran or anybody on the days I just have a request but go ahead M me um I was going to to say um we have police and DPW scheduled for Wednesday however I'll go out on a limb without counting and say they're they each have more line items than fire does I'm going to make the suggestion do you want me to see if one of them is available next week and just do one Department Wednesday and one next week um only because of you know the time that it's taking to go through the bigger Department's budgets that so everybody okay with that well the request I had is if we're going to look at Sal um as you know I had originally stated that Tuesdays I was going to be late um is it possible to either look at salaries on Monday or we need R people we're looking at salaries right how long is going take the right 48 Hours 4 they would have to get their signed documents back to Friday at who you want to have rice and all that good stuff let's let's uh with theeman so they can go home we're good thank you appreciate good night uh question was should we move one of the Departments to Monday night I don't have any objection that you ladies and gentlemen agree is that okay with everyone so whichever whichever one has an easier yeah chance of moving to Monday night thank you appreciate that now M Val asked who we going to start with salaries so I'd say we start at the beginning of the book and right is everybody okay with that because right now on the on the agenda we only have two dates left after Wednesday so after this one we have Monday well we're going to have to set more dates because we that's I'm saying Monday have full three hours we we don't have any anything really going on other than that's about it so if we're GNA do salaries as last May request to move the meeting to Wednesday if possible or address the salaries on Monday I don't think you're going to be able to address all of them on Monday right there's a lot to address and having the department come in right you to set the dates you we're going to have to set the dates yeah and you have to give me names you can't just make a blanket request to everybody sorry to say um the right noes you can save a lot of time but then we can't discuss the but then we can't discuss the Personnel well are we doing Personnel or are we doing the shall well it's it's they're both interconnected right so the minute you start talking to somebody then we're going to be in violation of of of of the notice so and explain to me why we're Rising because according to Mr par the minute we start talking about somebody coming to work and what days they work and what days they don't work and this and that it becomes a performance and then we could be sued because we're discussing them without their knowledge okay so it has really nothing to do with them themselves it's just if somebody asks a question and it it goes deeper and then all of a sudden we get caught that we're violating the rights act and we have a problem because I do have a problem with Rising employees uh I am working up a package for each employee that might be rights will give him his legal rights to file a complaint against anybody uh within the uh Township also he will be able to file a EOC complaint why in case the questions do not conform to uh uh his particular job or we questioning his ability to do his job I don't want any well that's that's what the right notice is for I know and that's why I'm I'm building the package up for these employees to understand that they have rights that they can file complaints if they feel that that's okay that's fine that if they feel that they're being targeted they have a legal right to file an internal complaint uh within the the township and then they also have a legal right to file a eeo SE complaint outside of this day what what they feel could be something that might affect them or something derogatory and I refer back to a case years ago um so I'm unconcerned about you know why we're going in this direction we never did this before yeah we've we've we've done this before but we R certain one or two people but we're not doing we're not getting into this Mass ricing you know so I want to make sure all our employees understand their legal rights that um well I think that information should come from Mr PA and not you because I think he's the expert at it well that's true but there is stuff within our U uh own code here within the township that I looked up and it's it's quite available so uh since I feel that you know we owe a lot to our employees and putting them through this is not the correction we should go I think I don't think it's I don't think it's putting them through this I mean even if you're getting promot you know even even a promotion you have to be red for a promotion according to the state is there anybody getting promo no no but I'm just saying I'm just saying you're you're looking at it is only uh in a in a in a negative aspect right but even even even but I'm just saying in the state of New Jersey if you are a public employee and you're being promoted or you're getting a salary adjustment you need to be wrs by the state according to the law the state of jur even if like all these salary adjustments if you want to follow the true they all should be RIS but we haven't followed the true but I'm just saying you're worried about the negative connectivity of it but well I have to worry about it because the employees are quite upset over this whether you feel that or not they are quite upset over this right notice and they feel slighted okay I just want to make sure that they have they understand what their rights are by if you think you can handle that oh it's already handled okay if we are just going to be discussing the positions then why do we need to bring up the individual especially since there has you can't discuss their their individual positions since we have in our packet of what that individual position is and who that person is now it becomes an issue so by by us creating this new line in our book when we say this person right it now tells you in the book so somebody could publicly look it up and say oh they're talking about you know such and such because that's the title so it's become an issue years ago that list didn't exist so now like when you open up this it tells you who that person is so is this available to or once the budget is once the budget's adopted it will be so during discussion that list is not available anywhere correct the the budget should not be disseminated with the public it's a internal document I know I know I've seen I've seen articles that people have requested it to through opras and twice right we' denied two so so it's not coming from my office that's for sure it shouldn't come from anyone hopefully anyone exactly from any office on any one of the days a real quick comment um again I won't take long uh I want to say it's been a pleasure working with the council so far on the budget uh you know you've taken reasonable uh actions on the line items however I will say just for the rice notice to my knowledge we're the only ones in the pasat valley uh that would rice notice people as part of the budget process so every other town is able to discuss budgetary things without rice noticing I don't know why we have to be the exception but Mr Mr par has always explained to us the minute I say you know this person I need to tell them that I'm talking about only if you use him by name correct no even if you give him the title everybody knows where what everybody's position is in town so the minute we start discussing this position you know they're gonna say oh that's such and such you know it's it's not like we have 700 employees where you're saying oh I don't know who that is it's you know but then I guess I have a follow-up question because during regular discussions regular meetings we've mentioned people's positions the code officials this and the code officials that and we have not right but we're not talking we're asking them to do something we're not talking about their salary or their their job you know with job you're talking about their job performance and same talking we we've stopped ourselves for job performance because we've gotten ourselves into trouble about it you know so you know I think you know for the record however this ends this was a discussion at the reorg meeting y when we were discussing the appointment of an individual and you know I guess there was a camp that had a positive View and there was a other individuals who had uh another view and we came to the conclusion that we shouldn't be discussing it because it violated their rights and I think that was pretty clear so whether we want to or not whether it's meant to or not I think it protects the town as well and it protects uh you know by issuing these notices so I mean that's my only point is that it's almost impossible not to have a discussion um and you know will send us down a path uh that the protection of the rights notice is required do you guys CC president do you know how you will be sing employees for I believe we will have to have that discussion at the next meeting meeting on on Wednesday we'll discuss it and we'll set who we're going to race I guess right is that that pool of every Township employee well M wowski said we have to go line by we have to tell her who she has the right so I guess Wednesday is part you can't say it's the blanket I'm saying you're gonna have to say daisy bz Tom Sears you know you can't just say everybody in the finance department everybody in the clerk's Department everybody in the administration that's all I'm saying you have to name we you know person gets one in signs off so Wednesday we'll have to make that determination if that's okay okay and then just to Circle back if we could you know I'd like to be present for the salary discussion so I understand we're going to set more dates will we do that on Wednesday as well yes we'll set more dates on Wednesday so date so she can uh so she can advertise in the same way that we are we're deciding to discuss you know the the different departments on different days can we also make that determination on Wednesday when salaries will be discussed yeah that's the intent okay we'll say this person would be on this day this person will be on you know we we'll have to break it up so okay just I I appreciate Direction so that we can prepare accordingly council president would there be any benefit asking Mr PA to be part of that discussion on Wednesday um I don't I would appreciate his opinion I don't see why not if he's available thank you I don't think it's going to change my mind but I I'd like to hear him re explain again because that's how it was explained to me the first time that we should to avoid any litigation or you know uh again it's not negatively it's not for neg you know it's for everything you know I would like just Clarity on why we can discuss on regular meetings qpas and titles and people without names but then during budget we can't so I would like that clarified okay motion to adjourn so move I had sorry I'm sorry just um Mr Sears would it be possible for you to provide uh to Mr paer your communication to the staff well can't communicate to the staff that I know who they are but I will give him uh the documentation that I have looked up and research in the employees uh HR handbook that information uh the publiced to but I'll definitely send it off to him the only reason I ask is it sounds like it's to me it sounds like it's potentially legal advice uh and if that is the case he may have an opinion to guide you on its distribution or the appropriateness not that you can or that's fine you know it is in the employees handil procedures it's there that's how I found it okay so no problem whatsoever anything else Mr Alman that's it motion to adjourn um one last thing so I'm sorry just real quick the only thing you had on here was the order for 2024 do you want to talk about that we'll move that no we'll move to the next meeting next no the next next recular meeting thank you m Le motion for I'll second all all in favor thank you everyone I scrolled I'm sorry good night John