##VIDEO ID:7GXLu9gLjkk## a [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good evening everyone thank you for joining us uh at our Monday November 25th council meeting uh we're going to begin with our conference agenda Madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of of the open public meetings act chapter 2 31 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman celino pres councilwoman gber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams present council president ruford here mayor bartney I just saw her there see that the uh uh World Pancreatic Cancer Day Proclamation is postponed we're going to do it when okay um all right we have the township parking study going to be presented by Mr McCormack um of dynamic traffic uh and Mr gooa is that right Jerry giosa of level G Associates figure right can't make it up right welcome sir thank you very much it's great to be here are you Jerry or you Mr mccor Mr mccor all right yes um so I was told um or asked invited I should say to come in and just give a brief um introduction as to who we are what we're doing what our scope of work is and where we stand with that scope of work we're in the middle of the project so that's why it's not there's no finished uh recommendations yet but I did give you a little sample packet of some of the uh deliverables some of the graphics that we're developing as we uh gain information and and go through it all so that's where we're we're in the middle so again my name is John McCormack I'm a principal with Dynamic traffic I've been practicing traffic engineering for over 30 years unfortunately I have to say that uh I'm an Essex County guy I'm a Bloomfield guy I live in Mammoth County at the moment um so it's great to be back up in I'll call it North Jersey great to be back over the river um so we answered a RFP by the town uh to do a comprehensive parking study uh and you'll see in this little packet I gave you um basically had a couple of different areas three different areas within the town uh the heights we call Municipal Plaza and Valley right pretty significant size area to do a parking study a lot of times we do parking studies they based in downtowns only or they're based in certain areas only this is this is comprehensive hence the title in the RFP um so what we started with was basically a meeting with the parking committee uh and I I won't I won't remember everyone that's there so I will just say it was zth it was the police it was the fire uh it was the administration so there was about 10 of us sitting around the table going through just the issues that I think now that I see things have been building over 50 years say it um a lot of the things we've looked at so far just looks like a patchwork right you you solve a problem here solve a problem here but when you look at it when you're when I'm going to show you Graphics you know in a couple month weeks or months you're going to say oh my goodness that's Patchwork right it's inconsistencies so what we're trying to do is not not only solve the problems in these various areas we have residential streets we have commercial areas we have Municipal parking lots all that stuff is in our scope of work there's going to be different solutions for probably each of those kinds of areas so we're trying to compile everything and then we're going to come back uh we're meeting the working group next week so we're going to have some sub substantial findings and some preliminary recommendations that we'll go through with the group before we move too far in One Direction or the other um so like I said what we've done today is we've we've gathered a lot of information we have all the road widths in town because Road width is important when you're talking about parking we have all the regulations in town and you should see the list and that's what some of these are like this little second graphic here uh second graphic has all these little color bars these are all the parking restrictions and that's just this little sample Zone I gave you right so there's a whole legend I know I need a magnifying glass to read these they will be they will be sized differently and different formats but I wanted to give you just an example of the amount of information we've collected uh how we're going to try to portray it and how it how it looks and how there's just so much going on you really have to know what's going on on your street in order to know the parking rigs the next little graphic shows all the different Road widths you have roads that are you know 20 feet wide obviously you have roads that are 38 feet wide all different roads all different characters of Roads we're trying to kind of compile that try to set some type of a a standard if you will and some consistency uh throughout the town um once once we kind of summarized and kind of started putting all that data together we obviously did parking counts right everyone loves a good parking to we were out here a couple days like full day night full day night Thursday Saturday we have tons of information you'll see this on the next graphic it's the demand summary the little bottom Legend talks about occupancy of the streets that's how we do this thing heat map Style where we go we went down every street and we looked at what was the demand and we say is this less than 50% is this 75% is this full we also counted illegally parked cars so you'll see just in this little snippet right here you know the demand is high as as you would well imagine especially in the areas where there's alternate side or things like that where you know we're not using every piece of curve that's that's out there so the residents are moving around so that's a a sampling of the data that we've collected for parking demand um and then as I mentioned we're we have all I think there 17 or 18 uh parking lots municipally owned parking lots the next map just gives you those and then the last two Graphics are like the summary of those parking lots every parking lot was inventory whether there regular spots Reserve spots handicap spots uh XYZ spots whatever it is there's a there's a table here that black and white table second to last page tells you everything about the parking lots and then the the last table gives you the demand by by hour by afternoon half hour of all those parking lots all those different types of designations so we are at the end of our collection uh period if you will we're trying to sift through all of this stuff you're seeing probably oneth of the data that we have collected just as a sample and and that's how we're going to we're going to utilize that data to to work up some recommendations that try to make parking uh in the town a little bit more consistent a little bit easier and hopefully we can create some spaces right we're not going to be able to create land but we can create some spaces if we change up maybe some of the regulations and some other things about certain areas so that's we're trying to trying to figure all that out trying to put together a little a little meeting packet for next Thursday where we're going to bring preliminary recommendations to the parking committee that's about where we are so I'm I'm here to gather more information concerns critical issues things that maybe weren't weren't uh you know told to us or have a particular place in someone's heart um you can you know you can let me know now I'll leave my information obviously and we'll go from there colleagues you have any questions G Michael so question about our parking lot downtown by the police Sub Station across from Washington uh Elementary School yeah um is there's a basketball court there right now that I don't think is is it being utilized wasz not at all that's my question which par this uh right across from Washington Elementary School yeah and they police and the basketball court isn't being utilized and that could be extra parking for our businesses downtown okay there's always an issue with parking downtown okay Is it feasible is there is there is is there grant money for I don't and I don't know that's I'm asking for um like parking decks would it make sense to erect the parking deck there and charge a feeties are doing yeah seriously something year these are absolutely all the things that we're looking at we're looking at in in your business districts should there be a revenue structure to create turnovers yes right should we utilize the parking lots that are in the downtown areas there's probably six of them in this study area right every little neighborhood has a little downtown corner should we lay out uh you know places for the employees to park put them in the back of the Lots they can sit there all day then in the front of the Lots maybe it's 2hour turnover maybe the parallel parking spots on Main Street are 15 minutes and there's meters you know there's things like that so in order to create space we have to change some of the ways we've been doing things and that's with regulation so it's either time duration and all those kinds of things Revenue when you control there's ways to do that now that are a lot more efficient than the old meter heads with quarters so those are all all recommendations that are going to be in the report and my last question is what are your thoughts about having a parking authority like other municipalities have it's something i' mentioned last year but there was an interest um when Jerry walks in we can hit him with that inst St that's his that's his b like the finances and the park Jerry is the um is the parking consultant for the moristown parking authority and various other Parking Authorities in New Jersey so he is well in tuned with all that stuff right I'm kind of the guy on the street guy thank you cwom good counil thank thank you councilwoman um actually there is interest for the parking authority it's something we've been talking about for years it's just we've been waiting for it to get going that's part of this study um so question in regards to that as well um the the basketball court is going to be going anyway the the uh engineer has a plan to reconfigure that that uh space so I hope that information was shared with you and that's part of the tap grant that we had received on Washington Street because that's kind of so I guess my one question is for engineers what they're doing here are we speaking with the tap grant writers uh with the the the uh streetscape uh uh people um of the plans that we have for Washington Street number one um number two we talk about um a parking and and we have 10 spots in um the lot over here the uh Hansen lot that are going to be reserved for uh one of the apartment buildings that we made an arrangement with so I just want to make sure that's in the plan and okay great well we aware that this whole park lot here is change some of the designations were changing they were changing as we were counting them some of the signs were changed especially you know Town Hall lot so yeah we'll we'll get that all formalized in year and then evaluated because I assume we're moving towards that app that app that well I don't know if I'd make any assumptions but yes I think um I think some sort of fair structure in the downtown areas and Municipal parking lots is a reasonable thing to think what that fair and the fee is I don't know or time limits what they are those are all the variations of you know town to town uh business district to business district so but yes those are the ways that towns control monetize and create parking okay and my last um question for you was there any mention to you we have or if you saw it in your study we have a lot of commercial vehicles that Park um illegally uh around in certain areas around around town especially the downtown area okay I didn't know you if you had noticed any of those uh I didn't per se but I can go back and look through you know we run dash cams when we do all of our things so I can look through that we'll we'll talk with uh zth and see where I have to look was your studies all during the daytime hours or running at nighttime no we had uh Thursday all day Thursday night and then we had Saturday day Saturday night okay yeah because we do get complaint for overnight parking with commercial vehicles at right that's it for now thank you council president anyone else you good you have question I have a question um I have a oh you do I do oh please go ahead thank you um so my question is more concerning the residential component as opposed to commercial I think commercial we can figure out how to um do what's best for the town the businesses Etc am very concerned about some of our residential parking um in the corridor that you've identified especially as we get to the heights locations sure um just hoping that we do not monetize any type of residential parking no that's NE that that's never part of the plan I haven't seen that even in the most Urban of cities that's usually not the plan uh the plan in the residential zones here is we have to figure out and talk about alternate side street sweeping oneway roads two-way roads we just have a lot of mixture of all those kinds of things um so to so that's where I mentioned you know the widths of the roads and make some consistency and look at the road network if there's good connectivity maybe there's options to do something a little different so that the curbside space in front of people's homes can be utilized more efficiently thank you anything else so I have a couple of questions um with regard I want to follow up on the parking authority and I don't I don't believe Jerry's gotten here yet but um I I'm I'm assuming that in your recommendations there will be some discussion of the pros and cons of parking authority and how that work oh yeah oh yeah it'll be Pages I'm sure all right and that because they're very different things agencies and authorities and yeah yeah who does what and where the money goes and who's responsible for what right very different he knows the ins and outs of it all and that will include enforcement or enfor separes H it's separate usually through the police department how do you want to on a daily basis enforce these things you know is it license plates readers that are on a police car is it someone driving around and checking the parking meters you know there's lots of different levels and um you know sophistications so we'll have an outline of all those different things what we recommend or what we think fits you know A and B may fit here but C and D don't um you know it's it's about what what the town is willing to um you know Institute as far as those regulations and as far as the money that was going to be needed to you know you need money to kind of collect the money right will there will there be cost and revenue estimates oh yeah okay um and the reason I asked about enforcement I I believe some towns have um done offloaded the ticketing portion of it to the parking authority which is separate from the township sure sure okay all right so that was one question I also want to follow up on another question about commercial vehicles I think uh my colleague calino so are are you going to make recommendations with regard to uh properties that could either be repurposed or purchased to accommodate additional parking whether it be for commercial vehicles or residential Vehicles some of these uh I saw in your map some of these are more than 90% occupied and I know some of these streets um and it's not just about following finding parking it's also about Public Safety people crossing in the middle of the block coming between the parked cars we have speeding so you know will you include those kind of recommendations or do you need something from us to make that kind of a recommendation well I think we're going to go through all of our highlevel ideas next week and we're going to see which of the which of the ideas sort of stick which we should d in further um but yeah once when we give you the recommendations there going to be thorough it's going to tell you how long it takes who what the jurisdiction is that needs to enact that uh how much it could cost how much revenue we could create there's going to that I mean that's how you make a decision right we're going to try to give you as much information as we can come up with gotcha um uh I think that's it for me I think the other questions were already asked I do have a question now coun you know as we think think about this I we should be looking at it strategically and we're doing a lot of development downtown you know Matrix is working on our film and as part of that I mean I've said many times we can't do any kind of development downtown without a parking garage so we need to be thinking about what role that will take and how we will work this thing as a whole especially around Tory Corner yeah well we'll we'll def go through and you'll see there's the like I show you the parking lot map on the back has all has your utilization and you see that there's areas that are obviously 100% parked now whether that's just unhealthy parking practices it's hard to tell because anyone can park anywhere for as long as they want for free so what we have to do is we have to figure out how downtown we utilize parking lots as efficiently as we can meaning put the employees in the parking lot how do we create turnover on on Main Street in those in the parallel parking spots I drove through there was a car sat there my whole time I was here for 11 hours so that's not healthy parking practices so so once we figure that out then then you determine um is there a demand problem do we have enough parking do we not is it just not in the right spot is it not being used by the right person there's a lot that goes into that so I don't think we're quite there yet is my honest answer let's look at this as a whole yes but all like all these things I'm mentioning they all come together and they all uh you know parlay on each other so it's I give you an example our school district often does these studies on whether the schools are overcrowded we spend $330,000 a clip and then they never seem to put into the study the development that we're doing oh sure so what I'm saying is look strategically at the township as a whole and make sure we get all of the information I understand what you're saying yes and what I'll tell you is we're seeing a lot of new developments just around not in not in this town particular but around where they build they'll build an apartment building 300 units they'll build 450 parking spots inside the building they the the owner of the building does not want to put the the parking with the rent because that makes the rent go up some people don't want a car some people want two cars so we have a parking garage that no one can see because it's wrapped which is nice but no one can see it there's 450 spots in it there's 250 spots open that would be and and some of the people are saying well the guy's going to charge me a hundred bucks a month to park in my own garage but that guy will charge me 50 bucks a month to park on the street I only use the car twice a week I'm going to come out of the building and park somewhere and not Park in the facility that was built for me so there's a lot of that happening in towns as well um we'll you know so we'll have to dig in and see if some of that's happening in some of your newer buildings I don't know if it is or not I like to see that strategic approach yeah there's nothing worse than an unused parking spot especially a garage built spot we have that so how how do you how do you take into consideration projects that are not yet built that not even be approved Well we'd have to look at what what the town's regulations are as far as requirements right are are you do you want them to put parking in the building or not we'd look at that do you want them to be at two per unit or 1.25 per unit we'd look at that we look at quite honestly Edison lofs what's happening there right that's a good example of what's going to happen in the future why would it be any different right um well with that particular project if the parking spots were included with the rent you'd have less people parking on the street of course you would but it never is yeah it never is never it never is because they want to say that the rent is 2999 they don't want to say it's $3,300 a month so it never is because the guy that doesn't want a parking spot says well why is it why am I paying Executive Drive includes the parking right no so you have to pay additional for this if you want to be in the in the garage you want to be in the garage you want to be in the garage but there's parking included with your when you get an apartment you get a parking spot the uncovered the uncovered is is free it's not regulated yeah the garage the garage is right so they're not gonna park at the mall they're gonna Park oh of course yeah no some the little the smaller apartment buildings 40 units 50 units you got to put 60 spots on the bottom they each one gets assigned to every unit and then there's 10 left over for guests that's common but in the bigger buildings that have a five-story garage well your recommendations include recommendations for how we um how we update our ordinances with regard to requirements for those developments I think it will yeah yeah we're going to dig in and say wellow you guys are requiring three spaces per unit that's like not realistic anymore and this what or whatever it is yeah and that'll be based on the size of the development well I I'll have to see at what level we get into but yes we'll work with zth and the planning staff and yeah and say uh that might be something that we look at whether we're going to give you the solution to it I I can't tell you that now no I appreciate there's you know there's a lot that goes into it it's all intertwined um at the moment it's a little you have a little bit of spaghetti and it's a little inconsistent if we can at least just unravel some of that and make it a little bit more consistent I think there'll be a dramatic change yeah that would be awesome I I think that is the right approach um you know a holistic approach at the entire issue uh you hit the nail on the head when you said we have a patchwork approach to uh this problem and and honestly many others sometimes it's whack-a-mole you fix it here and it causes a problem there oh that's right um yeah know I mean we're dealing with that with some of the projects on Main Street now so we certainly want to stop that uh looking forward to getting back whatever it is you have to offer the township yeah any other questions uh I don't see Mr uh Jerry GI giosa here um so we're just gonna Jerry behind your um Madame mayor has some questions thank you council president so even hi there thank you for accepting the invitation to give us this update gives us a lot to unpack I also wanted to ask you I know that there's going to be a slide when uh my public information officer gives information on Tuesday December 17th um councilwoman Celina mentioned the Federal grant the cap grand for Washington Street Corridor Main Street okay there is a public meeting on Tuesday December 17th from 7: to 9: here in council chambers um talking about the existing conditions along the corridor talking about the project about pedestrian safety motorist traffic so it sounds like right up my Alle what you just mentioned so I wanted to bring that bring that to your attention very good thank you I've received the letter tonight connecting all the guys sure thing love to yeah you have the letter Council colleagues in your package anything else uh Administration no thank you thank you very much Mr McCormick that's great that was great you know if there's anything you want to relate to me I don't know the format the protocol but Z Beth and everyone has my email so perfect we'll do have a great night sir thank you thank you thanks all right it is now 7 o'clock yes the mayor has a proclamation for Saturday which is this coming Saturday that she Madam mayor small business Saturday that's the name show me which and days two people passed away today in my complex wish moment and passed away got and and D is 103 years old Madame mayor thank you so Madam cler thank you very much for this it was inadvertently off the agenda but um we are we do have a proclamation for small business Saturday starting on November 30th uh C our West AR celebrates local small businesses and contributions they make to our local economy and our community according to the small business administration there are 34.7 million small businesses in the United States these businesses represent 99.7% of firms with paid employees they're responsible for 61% of the net new jobs created since 1995 and employ 45.9% of the employees in the private sector throughout the United States 68 cents of every dollar spent at a small business in the United States stays in the local community and every dollar spent at small businesses creates an additional 48 cents in local business activity as a result of employees and local businesses purchasing local goods and services 59% of United States consumers aware of small business Saturday shopped or eight at a small independently owned retail or restaurant on small business Saturday and whereas advocacy groups as well as public and private organizations across the country have endorsed the Saturday after Thanksgiving a small business Saturday so now therefore be it resolved that I mayor Susan McCarney along with the Town Council do hereby proclaimed November 30th 2024 a small business Saturday I urge the residents of our community and communities across the country to support small businesses and Merchants on small business Saturday celebrating it's 15th year in 2024 and Shop small shop local throughout the year thank you thank you madam mayor uh that will conclude um our uh conference agenda I'm gon to ask my colleagues to give your liaison announcements uh when we respond to public comment uh because the time is now 703 so we're going to enter into our regular meeting uh Madame mayor I'm sorry madam clerk this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman Celina present councilwoman gber Michael pres councilwoman Scarpa pres councilwoman Williams pres council president president Rutherford here mayor McCartney will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance and justice for all the council is now in their public meeting thank you madam clerk we're going to begin as usual with public comment oh yeah yep yep yep so um Mr Fagan and Mr Pugi will uh lead us off um and as usual we will only have public comment from those that are in the gallery if you're joining us via Zoom you will not be able to participate in public comment before you get going uh Mr uh Fagan uh just today we had two residents uh pass away uh Mr Barry seagull and miss Dy kleene they both lived in the hilltop Villas uh and I understand that Miss Dy kleene was 103 years old she may have been our oldest uh living resident uh so just before you get started I want to have a brief moment of silence please join me thank you and obviously we extend our sincere condolences to both amilies um Mr Fagan thank you council president certainly 103 years old is a good mon yeah God bless I hope to get that as you mentioned condolences to both families y this of course um earlier this month we celebrated Veterans Day and I'd like to point out that we' like to honor those employees Township employees uh fire department personnel and police Personnel who uh served our country and uh continue to serve our community so we'd be remiss if we didn't Point them out um as as collectively as a group uh I received word today that the fire ban has been lifted by the uh New Jersey forest fire service this is certainly good news uh but we still need to exercise caution when using outdoor recreational fires and the uh West Orange fire department will still continue um if if um complaints of smoke are received from fire pitch they will still arrive on scene to uh extinguish the fires uh I don't know if this has been an issue or not uh but certainly it's good news that the fire band has been lifted but uh it's pretty obvious but worth mentioning that we need to uh continue to exercise a great deal of caution um we have our there's the Thanksgiving luncheon sponsored by the West Orange Chamber of Commerce coming up November 27th uh at the Rock Spring Country Club this information is posted on social media and the website and of course uh you may have heard this is Thanksgiving week uh west darn municipal offices are closed Thursday and Friday and the uh there's no garbage recycling on Thursday that's Thanksgiving thing everything is closed uh and there's uh no Jitney service on Thursday and Friday but regular garbage recycling schedule will return on Friday I know I'm confused myself but that's the information um uh this uh Friday uh the 29th there will be a family orientated um cultural celebration for the Palestinian people that will happen uh Friday November 29th at 6 o'clock here in front of town hall uh as the mayor had mentioned small business Saturday is coming up November 30th uh we should we are all urged to shop local and certainly uh be mindful of shopping local uh uh all year round many great businesses here in West Orange um mayor McCartney's office hours are coming up December 5th I can't believe I'm saying December but December 5th uh and no appointment is necessary please stop in and discuss your concerns suggestions comments with the mayor um we are hiring school crossing guards uh I was told earlier this afternoon that um somewhere like seven um crossing guards were out last week and that puts an additional strain on the police department because police off officers have to cover uh High um uh crosswalks so if you're interested in becoming a crossing guard uh please look on our website or you can call 32545 there are uh several openings and we'd be glad to have you and there are benefits that come with this job as well um this information is on our website uh the public is uh encouraged to attend a public hearing uh for degnan Park in Colgate field I'm sorry Colgate Park Thursday uh December 10th at 6:30 here in council chambers um the township is submitting green ERS applications for Vincent's Pond uh walkway and dredging improvements and uh also Green Acre application for improvements at Colgate Park um so please uh consider attending uh to uh hear about everything that's going on there and also as mentioned council chambers is going to be a busy Place December 17th the public is invited to uh review project for the Transportation safety upgrades scheduled for the Washington Street Corridor um Santa Claus is coming to town uh I think we've all been good we're on his good list so uh he is going to the uh the tour schedule this will be posted on the on the website he's going to be visiting all the schools uh these times will be posted as well and the times are approximate but this is always a um much anticipated event uh this time of year um as uh there's no public comment from the zoom audience at tonight's meeting but uh as as always mentioned you can contact all Town count Township council members via email at um Council west.org and I believe um Megan Brill executive director Megan bril has a few announcements that she'd like to make as part of this report Meg you come up please thank you council president thank you sir than you hi everybody I'm Megan BR executive director of dtown Alliance um we have Santa Claus coming to town on December 7th uh we have Flyers that are posted all over the place now um we start off with breakfast with Santa at Washington school and uh we continue with pictures from Santa you're I know it by heart anyway Joe we have pictures with Santa and the guided Charlie ride um and I'm working on the schedule I just need to know Bill if you're in or out on that day December 7th let you know we can uh fill out a schedule right and um new this year we added a magician is coming at 3 o'clock to Washington so we'll have a a magician show for about an hour and then uh tree lighting is at night the only that that's okay this the flyer has been the flyer for the last you know nine years or something um and then the the new event that we brought out last year was um gnome Rome where we hid uh 25 gnomes this year we're hiding at least 30 gnomes we have 30 businesses that have signed up to uh hide a gnome in their storefronts and uh public has to go in and try to find them all once you find them all you submit your um you submit the the form that we filled out that was filled out and uh you have a chance to win uh and we're doing some Apple iPad something or other and a membership four four person membership to the pool which is like a protected thing that Mr KO doesn't like to uh give to anyone but he allowed us to be able to have that so there'll be two or three prizes and uh really just a way to get inside our stores and see um how really nice some of the stores are downtown that maybe you didn't go to before um so that's it and then Michelle can talk about right this is our special graphic for breakfast with Santa the Washington School uh Food Services does a great job of serving uh breakfast eggs bacon you know uh cereal toast everything um and it's only $8 a person and kids $ free but that's it all the information is on the town website and the downtown website and on Facebook and Instagram Pages all the and then Michelle you'll talk about tree lighting okay great that that's it for me let's have me question thank you thank you Mr P hi Anthony pesi representing County Executive Joe D fenzo just a couple events I know I mentioned them before but we are in December um our holiday light spectacular at turtleback zoo started this past weekend it continues again this weekend uh the day after Thanksgiving and continues until the end of the year every night from 5 5 p.m. to F 5:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. uh we do ask residents to bring uh non- perishable food items uh Used winter coats or new toys uh that are then donated to the Community Food Bank of New Jersey and other organizations to help uh less fortunate during the holidays um and there is it's uh no admission uh at that at those um uh at the holiday laks and then also in the bottom left you see the historic Holiday House Tour uh that's December uh 7eventh and eth and like I said before the one site in West Orange that is included on the tour is Glenmont which is Thomas Edison's house U times vary at all the locations both this event but holiday lights and the house tour are on our website essexcounty nj.org and I just want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving thank thank you Happy Thanksgiving we're now going to open it up to those that are in the gallery uh please approach the microphone give us your name and [Music] address so yes please just give your name and address before your public comment um thank you sir my name is Stephen Johnston I live on Sheridan Avenue in West Orange I would request that you address me by my first name only I would like to take a moment to thank the mayor for her response to the effort to make the town more inclusive and remove barriers to rest rooms by conducting an inventory of the single use restrooms in the township and starting the process of replacing those signs as well as the administration's initiative in adding the code language update to tonight's agenda in regard in regards to ordinance number 2883 d24 the bill itself is numbered incorrectly as 2884 d23 additionally both drafted changes should read the same way and include the same classes both should include and read as follows quote age sex sexual orientation gender identity gender expression race Creed religion or national origin end quote the current proposed language is inappropriately worded as it contains multiple conjunctions the update in this language is more than symbolic and will enshrine our town values in our code I would like to thank the Town Council Members who voiced support for the single use gender neutral restroom bill I have been notified that Garden State equality has sent a letter to the Town Council and mayor in support of the bill the email and in email and at the last Town council meeting I requested that the mayor add the single use restroom ordinance passed by several other neighboring towns to tonight's agenda I return tonight to request the Town Council act and add the bill to tonight's agenda for first reading under new business previously a concern was raised over the cost of the bill for local businesses restroom signs can be purchased at various stores for as low as $2 or as much as $20 with Braille the bill does not specify what the sign has to say only that single occupancy restrooms cannot be limited to a specific gender the sign could simply say quote restroom as is noted in the bill the business owner could print out their own sign and laminate it or not they could buy a plastic sign that simply says restroom on it that would be a onetime purchase for decades the cost of the bill is low but its impact will be felt by those who are vulnerable and in need of support I cannot fathom any unintended consequences to the bill other than broadening access to single use restrooms for all residents regardless of gender this is something anyone who has ever flown on a plane has encountered had no issue with and then went back to their seat and had some pretzels every West Orange resident who crosses into the entire state of New York and the neighboring towns of Monclair and Milbourne among others encounter gender neutral single use restrooms by law when you vote for the bill you vote to support women disabled individuals and yes even transgender non-binary res I ask that you add the sample bill I sent to council to tonight's agenda on first reading and to pass the bill into law on December 10th thank you I will be leaving tonight to go to the HRC meeting which is double booked for right now but you all have my email and cell phone number I appreciate your support if there are any public comments response to my public comments I'll be sure to watch them on the video thank you thank you does anyone else want to address the council or Administration good evening Joe kovak BR viiew Avenue I request the council you exercise Extreme Caution on the administration and request to borrow an additional $1 13.4 million on tonight's agenda if approved by the council this would raise the townships issued an outstanding debt to $178.6 million yet another record this would add an even more dangerous and onerous burden on the Township's finances and property taxpayers at the start of this year our debt was just under $170 million that represented a 49% increase a total of $56 million from the end of 2020 just three years ago from 113.5 million which I already thought was dangerously high for our Township particularly as it was borrowed at some of the highest interest rates most of us have ever seen with $170 million in debt we already budgeted nearly 12% of this year's Municipal budget to Debt Service we're spending $ 11.6 million this year buying nothing only paying for past borrowing and spending imagine paying nearly 12% of your household income to pay existing credit card balances adding more debt is highly likely to make our finances even worse the supplemental debt statement required by the state to allow an informed decision on whether to add more debt clearly shows that the township is rapidly approaching the limit of what we can borrow at $178 million we can only borrow just over $83 million more in other words we would have borrowed just under 72% of our credit limit at the end of 2020 that ratio was just under 50% 22 points lower at that rate from the last four years we would be unable to borrow any more even before we get to the year 2030 let that sink in and that's not even counting how much of our budget would have to go to Debt Service for this higher debt council member elect Joyce Ruden and I ran successfully in the election a few weeks ago heavily on the need for fiscal responsibility in our municipal government and by the way thanks to everyone for their vote and support we are eager to take our oath of office and join the council to start working to make our town an even better place to live visit and do business but the first thing we must do is collaborate with the administration including the new CFO to develop a strategic debt reduction plan and the sooner the better but every dollar that we add to our debt makes it that much harder to fix and to make our Township more affordable and responsible to our priorities we have a lot of worthwhile projects on the proposed capital budget but except for the proposed borrowing of $1.8 million to fund Severance costs where the only alternative is to raise taxes the full amount next year instead of spacing repayment over five years these projects can wait a few months until we give a clear view of how we are going to get out of this rate this getting this raging debt under control I urge the council to vote down the other $1.6 million in proposed borrowing until we have a plan in place to avoid debt Armageddon make no mistake that's exactly where we are heading if we're not already there and if you believe a project must go forward now and can't wait a few months for reconsideration after we develop this strategic plan together then please consider carving that project out of the larger Collective represent in this Bond ordinance and just vote on that project not the entire proposal vote down the proposed ordinance and ask for the much smaller one we must change this ruinous Direction on borrowing in debt sooner rather than later to lessen the pain as together we get to a better more fiscally responsible place we need to be I wish everyone at the council meeting a blessed and happy Thanksgiving and in case I don't have a chance to attend the rest of the meetings this year I also thank council president Rutherford and council member Williams who are leaving the council at the end of the year for their service and wish them well in the future thank you thank you anyone else Lawrence Cohen Lincoln Avenue West Orange New Jersey i' just like to comment a little more about the budget crisis we have and some proposals here and amplify what I've said before uh may seem like a little amount but there's a agreement with rosand for animal control and I I think it's about 18,000 that they will pay us for us to be their Animal Control Service Company I'm just thinking about how we could price this uh it's not only how many calls were made by Rosland to use our services um it also has to do with how much it would cost rosand to have an animal control office I mean and and we should we should price that in that we're saving them a great amount by them relying on us and not having to have any employees any insurance any physical building any F any any uh vehicles and I think we could probably uh you know price that and and have a higher price for our our agreement that that's sort of an economies of scale type agreement where we're getting something uh from them and they're getting something from us it could be a win-win for both and we could do this with other uh townships nearby if we have an expertise in something maybe we could I I looked at Verona and they have an agreement with Wayne for animal control and then I looked at Wayne's website and they're very simple what they do what they contract out and that was interesting um you know so we could learn from other townships so other I guess this is a this is something that other um I guess we're 50,000 so people and the Rosland is 8,000 or something so we can really help them out and maybe they could help us out if they have an area of expertise um moving on to another topic would be um again the parks what is it it's a Degan now there's a Degan uh Degan Park um Lake degnan I walked around there and a lot of trees have been cut down recently and I didn't know what this you know and I I took pictures and they were they were and I asked people they were healthy trees and the trees and the stumps were healthy and the stumps were kept I just don't know why and then I spoke to some neighbors around there and they told me that uh one neighbor uh right near Hooper Avenue had his trees cut down four years ago by a different Forester and he was heartbroken he said that uh these trees he had 30 trees cut down so now I'm just talking when I walked around the park I found about eight trees cut down but these trees are irreplaceable and I mean they're replaceable but take hundreds of years to grow back and so there there's even a tree planting proposal here to me it's crazy to cut down a good tree a healthy mature tree and then that cost a lot of money it causes a lot of damage and and and there and then to replant a tree in its place it just doesn't make sense I just wonder if there's just some real um bad planning involved in in this and and I have that from experience from a street that I live on Lincoln Avenue where the trees were cut many mature trees in between the street and the sidewalk uh just for convenience of of uh making a different type of curb and different type of sidewalk I mean it didn't make sense I thought they could have worked with the tree and worked around the trees um let's see another thing I guess it's a big item it's um it's the park what is it Crystal Lake um so it seems like 1.6 million it will uh 1.6 million it cost and we have to front 16 $160,000 for an engineering study and and what are they going to do there they're going to they're going to I guess pave uh a dirt and and and cement area make it larger around the lake they're going to dredge maybe dredge and then they're going to work on the um a theater that seems fine an outdoor theater and make it uh you know very higher class but doesn't make sense it's a waste of money and I think we still lose money even though it's a million dollar Grant I think we'd have to if I'm not wrong 600,000 we have to pay our El plus the 100 the 160,000 or up to 160,000 we'd have to pay for the engineering fee upfront I don't think we have the money for this I think it's a waste of money and uh you know we really have to watch the budget um our schools are great I've seen a lot of people say they love the schools you know if I know this is we don't give money to the schools but we should focus on things that we do great and time out thank you thank you anyone okay uh Kenneth mcferson uh of the law firm given PC uh one Gateway Center Newark New Jersey uh here on tonight on behalf of West Orange Wellness LLC uh in relation to resolution 322-2484 to operate a cannabis retail business at 26 South Valley Road which is on tonight's agenda uh good evening Council uh and and Madame mayor uh thank you for your Public Service uh each of you have done great work it does not go unnoticed um also in attendance tonight uh with me is my co-counsel Ted Flowers um on the State Licensing side and also with me is uh Justin minck who is the general manager of West Orange Wellness uh who's been on site uh every day down at 26 South Valley Road um so West Orange Wellness submitted as you know the annual renew renewal license application along with the check uh for the fee for approximately $3,000 uh West Orange Wellness anticipates that all the site improvements to the property uh will be completed before the end of 2024 uh the property's exterior is being improved by Grabowski construction who are on site today uh will be on site tomorrow uh they'll take a break for Thanksgiving and then they'll be back next week uh they they're working on a expedited schedule pursuant to a signed contract uh to finalize the uh improve improvements at the property which include a new parking area with a lighting conduit uh to bring the the property into compliance with the Township's uh lighting standards uh for safety purposes uh replacement of the entire sidewalk along the property from Nassau Street and Valley Road uh that's also for safety for ADA compliance that was a specific recommendation of the township engineer uh so that's being done uh installation of new curbing around both of the parking areas uh regrading of the parking areas that comply with the ADA requirements and to improve the water drainage uh that that last Point's important for uh winter parking that gets wet there uh the regrading of the parking lot there's going to be a little bit more commercial traffic to these parking areas they need to be safe uh so that's all being done kbass construction is uh the contractor for the exterior work uh there there'll also be new landscaping and buffering around the perimeter of the property uh and that's pursuant to a Township approved plan uh this work alog together constitutes uh much more than a quarter million dollars of site improvements uh to to bring a previously out ofd commercial property uh previously used for office use uh into compliance as a state regulated cannabis this facility uh the interior renovation of the building is uh just about complete and ready for inspections by both state and Township officials uh West Orange Wellness plans open to the public via soft opening and either January or February uh 2025 and just a few months uh each of you will receive an invitation to the ribbon cutting uh West Orange Wellness members and management currently operate uh two other retail dispensaries in New Jersey each with net annual sales of approximately five million those are in much smaller municipalities uh that's rimed in Camden County and Marlton in Burlington County uh if you call the Mayors in those towns uh they will give them a good review um this location in West Orange is projected to have a conservative 5% increase over that number in net Sal Sal because of its location uh the density of population and a market analysis um there have been no corporate or operating changes in the submitted uh license renewal documents uh as I said Mr flowers will address that further uh the local businesses in town have uh walked up to Mr minic and express their optimism and uh anticipation looking forward to West Orange Wellness opening saying it will be a boon to the other businesses down in that area um we thank the council very much and and the mayor and the administration uh for support of cannabis businesses in town uh which will very shortly prove up successful thank you thank you evening uh my name is Theodore flowers as Mr mcon was saying I am co-counsel for West Orange Wellness he said pretty much everything I would say uh and did it much better so I'll be brief um where we are now with the application process with the licensing process with the state they have received they've cleared all background checks with the CRC so they're waiting for completion of construction where they can schedule a final physical site inspection where they'll check the Alarm Systems check the physical structure of the building and be operational that usually occurs within 2 to four weeks of completion of construction and getting a CO um we submitted the renewal application as Mr mcferson said nothing has changed from the original application that was submitted as a matter of fact I submitted the original application participated in multiple Zoom con or Zoom meetings with the township with the original Council and the original commission nothing has changed from March of 22 when we submitted the original package we're actually excited that this group has been able to endure some significant uh obstacles in terms of instruction and just a licensing process in and of itself so we're really excited to get started um really excited that we're finally at the end of the road any questions regarding the application that was submitted where we are with the state uh the operating agreement more than happy to uh respond to other than that no that's F thank you thank you yep uh good evening Council uh James Jackson Juan Ashley Road West Orange New Jersey um I'm here to tonight um uh speaking speaking on uh 32124 resolution granting application for local license uh to operate a cannabis cultivation business y LLC I am the CEO and founder of Yana LLC um just really wanted to take a minute um you know to say this is a long time coming and we are happy to be here this evening but wanted to take a moment um to really thank um each and every member of the council um as well as Chief Abbott um as well as mad uh Madame mayor um for the support of cannabis operators here in West orang um I know um the state did not give gave little guidance to municipalities around um you know how to make this work um and I have to give kudos to you all for putting forth um and coordinating a fair application process um specifically for you know um and and and in support of of of our license um here at Yana um don't want to take up too much time um as you know I know we are before you tonight um uh with our resolution um but really just wanted to say as a team you know uh made up of 100% West Orange residents um we are excited um you know to be a contributing safe uh contributing member of this community um and a safe operator safe and considerate operator um of cannabis um here in town um welcome any in all questions and and and look forward to uh to being of service to to West Orange very soon thank you thank you anyone else seeing none public comment is now closed um we will begin with our responses which um at your discretion may include your the aison announcements um we'll start in reverse order this time councilwoman Williams uh can we start in the other order I'm not ready with my com councilwoman uh yes sure um uh thank you Mr py and Mr Fagan uh it looks like December is going to be a really fun month and to Megan bro uh I can't wait to see Santa and have breakfast um Stephen Johnson um I will leave it to the mayor to uh discuss any reservations she had about bringing uh the full requests you have but we are certainly in support of what we have on our agenda tonight uh Joker kovak thank you very much um again when I got my supplemental debt statement I was frightened and I was happy to realize that it wasn't the 190 that I it looked like that it's only $178.6 million debt that we have uh I have the same concerns about uh spending that you have and I I've talked about it a lot I think our first course of action needs to be a serious debt reduction plan I think we should do nothing except the very minimal amount of spending that we have that we have to um there are the have toos and there are the want toos and there's a lot of nice things that we want to do but I think right now until we all get together and wrap our hands around the dead we have to take out the most important projects of course police fire and certain other things that need to be done and we need to get a more strategic plan in place for next year and some of these things may have to be put off um Lawrence Cohen uh thank you for coming again it's nice to see you here uh in terms of the animal control I don't know I don't have I think I'll let the Administration address that because I don't know what other towns do and I don't know exactly what the market rate should be for that but it is interesting that you brought up it would be nice to offset some more of our costs but I don't I think they probably have a better idea of how how we could you know what we should be charging them and I'll let them I'll ask them to address that for you in terms of Crystal Lake um I have to agree given the current debt that we have I think this project looks a bit too ambitious um we do want to get the million doll grant money I think maybe we need to scale this back we definitely need more of a presentation from our administration of exactly what is planned here um I I just think we need to look at look at it in more detail in terms of the tree planting proposal I do have some questions too it's half about half the amount of money is appropriated than we had put in the budget I think we had put like 300,000 in the budget and um that's something we'll talk about I'll talk about later um but we do have to look at that and I agree that we have to do better planning and we cannot cut down trees to make it easier to install our sidewalks in curbing um Mr mcferson West Orange wellness and your can we're looking forward to supporting you in any way we can and thank you councilwoman gber Michael good evening West Orange thank you to those of you here joining us tonight in council chambers and to those of you online wishing you all a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday to and your families um so I'm going to categorize this instead of calling everyone out by name just by the um project so first off um the amended ordinance um regarding the um I'm sorry with what Mr with what Stephen excuse me said because he asked us to address him by his first name I agree with all of his comments um I'm going to make a motion in new business that we uh ad uh vote to place on the next agenda the single occupancy ordinance um I don't understand why it's not on there already so hopefully they'll be support from the majority of my colleagues if not all um and I'll leave that at that and regarding the capital Bond ordinance and the debt statement I was very am very concerned actually about the debt that we're in um and I do look forward to working with our new CFO Mr DAC uh regarding a debt reduction plan um and I do want to Echo the sentiments of my Council colleague uh councilman Scarpa regarding prioritizing the projects um I believe that there are some projects in there that are priority and others can wait until next year um I believe the public safety projects uh are a priority you know anything regarding our police and fire in addition to um money associated with grants projects associated with grants like the street Pavements and the but I do have questions which I will reserve for the administration when we get there in the ordinance because I want to make sure that if we're doing these projects have we worked with the uh utility companies so that they're aware of these projects so we're not Paving it and then they're coming back and ripping them open to work on whatever it is whether it's sewer whether it's a CNG um so those are questions that I have for you guys later on um regarding the animal control agreement I'm going to defer to our Administration um all great questions regarding Dean Lake um as well as Crystal Lake and the aspath project we are going to an executive session so those are questions that I have for you guys regarding the grant um and then the trees uh the tree purchasing and planting proposal I too am confused as to why it's only about $142,000 and we budgeted $300,000 this year so those are I'm going to defer to the administration as to what happens with the other 150 I thought the plan based on a previous meeting was that we were going to spend the money the 300,000 purchasing the trees um this year and then planting it next year in warmer in warmer weather so I do look forward to hearing answers um West Orange Wellness your super supportive really excited for for you and for this town um I'm going to go to Western orange Wellness based on your projections if the two current businesses are grossing 5 million each and you're projecting we're going to get 5% more that means the township is going to get at least $100,000 in Revenue which I think is fantastic and I think it's really important whether it's this Council or the you know next year with the new incoming Council there's a lot of money we're going to be getting between this even the Comcast deal that we're going to discuss later the 2% revenue from them um we have to figure out what we're going to do with this money May I don't know whether it's to help pay down some of the debt whether it's going to be used for projects in parks and wck or within our Public Safety or even um for trees I don't know what that looks like but that's money that's coming in that I feel like we can use even planning for severance packages right we have the 1.8 million doll Bond on tonight so I think that's something that we should consider and discuss um without pigeon ho holding ourselves I don't know what the option is but I think it's really important that we do discuss where this money is going to go into maybe it's a a pot that we acrew to use for for stuff like the the severance package I don't know I don't know what it's going to look like but I think it's important so then we're not having to bond money and then pay interest on things when there are other ways to proactively creatively use the money that's coming in to our town um let me see give me one moment I have other comments but I will reserve my comments for when we get to them in the agenda later on and then most importantly we are in executive session so thank you and I that concludes my response to public comment council president thank you councilwoman Council woman oh wait sorry I do one last question Mr DAC the debt how much debt are we retiring this year is that included in the supplemental debt statement that you sent us I you should answer it now or later be be prepared Dan there would be several questions with regard to the debt so please be prepared to answer that in conjunction with the other questions that will be presented I we'll give the administration a chance to answer um all the questions that have been posed to you anything else councilwoman that's it thank you councilwoman Williams are you ready now I am thank you so very much um so just wanted to say good evening West Orange thank you you Mr py U for your information and updates on what's going to be happening for the remainder of this year and through December looks like West Orange and our Parks and Recreation Department are going to have a fantastic holiday season Stephen uh just to reiterate um our process for putting something on first reading is a majority vote and then it goes on to First reading at the next meeting if there is support um so that is the process um for any additional updates to uh the ordinance um thank you Mr kovak um who has outlined our debt service um just want to be mindful and remind the public um that while our debt service has increased over the past four years and certainly increased um over the past two um that has been an anticipation of the uh movie studio so we did Pro Pur 13 Parcels um and in hopes that that would be um developed uh we do anticipate and did approve for the sale of those properties to go to the developer um so that will unload a tremendous amount of uh the debt that we have incurred of late Mr Cohen um again just not uh having the uh detail on how we can um continue to support our neighbors with our an control um but I do know this has been a practice over several several years uh certainly beyond my tenure on the council and it is always a very very nominal um rate I know $8 to $20,000 might seem insignificant um but we also clarified at the last council meeting and can have the administration reiterate as well um that these um transfer of services or shared services if you will um do not uh put a burden on the municipality and we appreciate uh the transfer of funds that we are um to receive I think last month um or we were told that there were maybe five um pickups from the dog service from the um Township so again extremely insignificant um not to be overlooked because at the end of the day we still also have to move our facilities as well um so also wanted to address um you thought it's crazy to cut down healthy and mature trees certainly we all at this day is agree with you as well um and the practice of cutting down healthy trees to two Street Paving has been um discussed ad nauseum and our Administration has agreed um our engineer has agreed um that we will continue to look at alternative methods other than just basic tree removal as we continue to repave our roads I also want us to be mindful and I will continue to say this um that we are not professionals um that we are in most cases just the general public and so identifying a healthy tree um is not our expertise and I do um encourage us to leave that to the professionals and there may be um stumps that we look at um once they are cut down that may not look damaged but that does not mean that the tree is viable or that it did not need to be cut down again not um dismissing the fact that we have done a lot of tree removals in the past as we have continued um to pave our roads but again that's a past practice and I confident that this Administration will do everything necessary so that we can keep as many trees in West Orange as we can but again to that point you know I've had uh what I thought was a healthy tree fall on my house and my neighor house um just a few months ago um so trees and the viability of trees and I remind us also that we lost a life um with what probably was not considered um a a tree that was unhealthy um but we do need to just continue and I think the Administration has indicated um that we do have a townwide tree assessment just like we have had the traffic uh study this evening and I look forward to understanding what is the true health the many trees and uh forests that we have um in our community again with our cannabis U Mr mcferson on behalf of West Orange Wellness as well as U Mr Jackson on behalf of Yana I'm looking forward to both of those entities coming to West Orange um I look back and we started this process um many many years ago it's been a long time coming and I appreciate your patience perseverance um as well as was the the investment into this community um we know that there is a tremendous incentive for you to um do your business here and we appreciate that we don't take that lightly at least I don't speaking for myself and again just welcome and thank you um for your your patience I'm looking forward to a successful um business as you say so that you can supply all the other dispensaries in our community uh with your product it is a team effort um and then I also wanted to speak to the um Crystal l um if if the public isn't aware there is a new business application um that has been um put in for the old Bolen alley um so I am excited about doing a little bit of um upgrading upkeep um to the crystal uh Lake Area um my my recollection obviously I've only been living in West Orange um for about 20 years um but that was a facility that was a public facility um ice skating boating and I think um as much as we can do to encourage outdoor um engagement get our kids off of uh cell phones and computers is certainly something that I would like to see and speaking of aspac um I served on the board of aspac many many years ago um aspac has been in need of improvements um over the past eight years um the sound system was improved and um and again mod ly improved um the facility um can certainly uh stand for additional improvements um a seating area for those who are Mobility challenged um is certainly encouraged and um it's it's really challenging of course how you balance your debt um with some of the townwide improvements that we're looking forward to seeing and that is a juggling juggling act um but anytime we have an opportunity to improve our outdoor spaces I strong recommend that we do so um and then again just be mindful of the overall expense um you know we do have an open space um commission that does have funds that each of us as residents pay into um when we pay our taxes to the municipality so instead of just assuming um that it would come from the town or that the town would incur um the debt of some of these costs and improvements let's always look to work collaboratively with the ad Administration and see what other options and opportunities there are out there and certainly open space funds could be a resource um to make all of this um improvements for our public spaces um a possibility that's um what I have for responding to public comment um just wanted to um talk about last week and the league of municipalities Conference was held in Atlantic City and I want to thank the administration um for giving us an opportunity to to attend lots of classes lots of workshops and of course lots of uh partying and networking um it was a great time I've gone um every year except for the first year um when I served as a councilwoman and it's always um informative classes it helps you um do this job behind this day is a tremendously um tremendously better and it gives you an opportunity to network with your colleagues and see what they're doing in other towns um so I think um as I look back over the last four years um it's just been a a pleasing experience and I want to thank the residents of West Orange for your trust in me and I look forward to continuing to serve throughout the end of the year thank you thank you councilwoman councilwoman celino thank you council president uh first I want to start off with our cannabis entities um you know congratulations for getting to this point so far and I appreciate the uh information that I had requested um about the operating agreements very important um as I said in the past and I I know um has spoken to one of you today uh you know it's about us knowing who all all the stakeholders are and them having a vested interest uh in this uh Endeavor um a lot of concerns in the communities about the industry and hopefully you know those fears will Subs side a bit um but again we need to know who each and every stakeholder is and moving forward if there is a change um you you the part of the ordinance so you know is you have to send that information to us don't wait for us to ask you're obligated to send that in per our ordinance because we we need to know but thank you for very much for accommodating uh very quickly and getting that information uh to us I appreciate that and and U lots of luck um all right so Mr let me jump to Mr um congratulations uh uh uh Council M kovak uh and um Mr Cohen's comments in regards to their AET service you know of course we're always concerned about that service we just don't sit here and just vote Yes for the heck of it um you know we have a lot of responsibilities while we're up here and uh uh moving forward you know it it's you know when if you read the ordinance and take your time to review we have the d a lot of our directors present um these just aren't you know uh extra a you know we have um renovations to our fire houses our fire department we have here a lot of road worker infrastructure is very very old um I know Mr con you mentioned last meeting that you're out knocking on doors for the candidat your support well myself being a candidate and talking to folks for over six months I mean you'd be amazed how many roads that we haven't paid in 20 years and and folks are waiting for those those roads even though they don't come here they're still waiting so we have a lot of roadways on here and we'll go over that uh later on that I want to take Mr JC's thunder away for later um but a lot of sewer improvements and repairs to the many needed areas and I want to thank our engineer because she's been working tirelessly um she's been trying to hire uh an assist which we had put in the budgeted uh in our Bud our Bud our our operating uh budget and um just trying to to get Personnel here in the township has been difficult um but she's been working tirely you saw the presentation earlier tonight just on our parking lots we've been waiting for parking lot improvements uh for for a long time and without those improvements we can expect um some of our retail sites in the in our corridors to to you know expand so there's a lot on here we'll go over that later um we have a a ordinance night on storm water management and so um some of sewer like I said sewage and drainage is also included in here so again when we talk about deducting and making deductions in this I'll defer to U Mr DAC later um you know you take out a half a million dollars which is a lot of money uh out of these bonds and uh you know we'll see how how little that reduces the payment unfortunately um but we are mindful of our debt ratio but we also have to manage and and uh govern and uh this is the system that we inherited as Council people of how we um we plan uh our our capital projects and um what's exciting with the new CFO this year um he will be making recommendations to us on how we'll be able to uh change some of our methods that we've used in Prior years so we look forward to that information as we work forward with uh working with him so just wanted to point out those few items and uh look forward into digging deeper uh in a later conversation uh but I do want to do mention uh the parks I I know we received a grant uh aspac is a crown jewel of ours uh the grant we received is for the path around I see Mr Kio in the back and he could talk to the other needs of OAC uh it has been a great uh resource for our community and um especially during Co when Co hit that was the only place that in the golf were places where where folks could go and enjoy a much needed Recreation so we'll have to balance that out hash that out later of uh what we all think is important uh for the community and talk about that later but we can pay down debt uh my colleague she uh councilwoman Williams uh she had mentioned about the film studio you know we need to purchase we need that purchase to go through that will pay down uh some of the debt we also have Green Acres funding coming our way and Mr DAC could talk to that as well later on so um we do have um some plans and we're just not sitting here being Reckless we have to manage and operate the township so I look forward to those conversations uh let's see uh Stephen I know we had to go to the other meeting uh just so my colleagues know um Miss BR had already started inquiring to some of our business owners uh in regards to uh the single stall bathrooms and so we were to in Atlantic City last week I didn't realize you were down there uh we attend a lot of our classes as well um so we didn't get a chance to dig deep last week uh she started a few conversations this week and I believe we're going to meet with him next week Miss bril and um we'll be able to expand that conversation we just want to see how it's going to affect some of the business owners we don't intend to be a big effect but um something we could talk about later so um with that always just want to check in um Saturday as it was mentioned early Mr Fagan mentioned is small business Saturday and thanks to the mayor for the proclamation you know we talk about helping our businesses um you know shopping logal is one of the best things you could do for a business owners uh we have a lot of restaurants in town we have a lot of uh hair and nail salons we have coffee shops a gift card is a great gift with the holidays coming coffee shops a lot of them have their own a brand of coffee which makes nice little gift baskets so go out uh support our local businesses uh because they could sure need the support uh look forward to um next Saturday or two Saturdays uh with uh breakfast with Santa that's always been a great event uh we appreciate uh Ben uh Benji's coming out to do the pictures for uh the kids it's always so joyful to see them uh coming in with their little suits and dresses and it's for some families it's a tradition and for some families it's the only uh Christmas card uh picture they'll have with Santa so it's very very uh heartwarming it's a great day I appreciate all the support but we do need volunteers to help to get us through that weekend so anyone who is interested in volunteering it's a great way to give back to your community we need uh volunteers for Friday night the 6 to help set up a Washington Street School uh we could use help Saturday during the day and especially a cleanup time at 4:00 in Washington JY so if you have an opportunity reach out to miss bril and come on downtown and catch your energy because it going to be a great day thank you council president thank you councilwoman um I want to thank everyone that participated in public comment uh especially U Mr Fagan and Mr poliy um Mr Johnston as you know I am in support I I agree with you um I'm sorry Stephen and I have the note right here and so I have a splitting headache I am not well tonight and I may not make the entire meeting I've already discussed it with one of my colleagues uh so I do need a little bit of Grace um Stephen I um I don't see why the cost would be even considered given how little it is to change a sign um and even if it were a significant cost there are some things that are are worth paying for um we claim to be a stigma-free town we claim to be a hatefree Zone uh and then when we have opportunities to actually act on that we debate which makes very little sense to me um Mr kovak um so I just let me let me say this La this year in our budget 800,00 000 was taken out by Me by my recommendations last year when we were presented with a 16 plus perc property tax increase or the laying off of half of our Workforce which would have shut down the entire town and completely negated the services that people pay for um I made the recommendation to freeze all open positions and promotions tough call it's not something that was popular in town hall um but it was something that needed to be done in order to protect jobs and provide services um so I do think the council is aware of our financial and fiscal responsibility and I'm looking forward to the conversation with MRC um I do thank you for providing the supplemental debt statement um um but to your point we have uh we have um quite a bit of debt um I'm not as concerned about it as you um my concerns aren't with the level of debt my concerns are with the execution required to get it down the Integrity behind the plans that are stated when they are stated um that incur that debt when we I I can't remember which colleague mentioned it um when we purchased the properties for the movie studio um what we were told at that point was we would own those properties for six months that was over two years ago so having confidence in those that make claims to us provide information to us that we then vote on that is very difficult um and that is where my concerns are with regard to the debt um it's very difficult to move forward with any of the bond ordinances when there's very little conf idence that what is being presented is going to be um executed on um now having said that there's still some stuff we have to do and sometimes we have bad options to choose from uh and we could sit around and point fingers of blame or we can try and find a solution uh I think what the people of West Orange want and deserve are solutions uh so we'll we'll discuss that uh when we get to that point in the meeting obviously we have the capital budget on tonight and that was the substance of your comment so we will discuss that um in detail later um but the residents of West Orange do deserve a certain level a certain quality of life um and that doesn't involve Paving roads and investing in infrastructure and improving Parks um providing outdoor spaces for families to gather and um I've been very clear about what my uh um priorities are in that regard um I look at the neighboring towns that are similar to us um and in each one of those towns no matter what neighborhood you live in you can walk to a park you can't do that here you don't we don't even have sidewalks in many of these neighborhoods to make it safe to walk to a park um so we do have to make those Investments and sometimes we have to do it in difficult moments and that takes a tough call and sometimes the right call is to say no um and I've said no my colleagues have said no um and I expect when no is the right response that you'll get that from not just this Council but future councils as well um Mr con with regard to the animal control um ordinance um we did receive the data uh from our last meeting uh regarding the number of calls uh that were required now back to what I just said to Mr kovak um you know we have to have confidence in the data um but the data that has been presented to us shows in 2023 was the high Watermark nine total animals were housed at our facility um the low water mark is one and that was in that's year to date in 2024 and also in 2021 um so it's not at least from a um impounding standpoint taking control of the animal and housing the animal it's not a heavy lift I don't know and and what I would like to know is what our um how much of the patrol how much of that work is proactive on our Animal Control Officers I know our guys right around town and um and they do you know various things while they're out patrolling I'd like to know what that responsibility is in rosand and and if that cost is commensurate with the service that we're providing then great and if it's not then maybe we need to make an adjustment so when we get to that point I'd like the administration uh to respond um I was not aware of the tree cutting in degman park I would like to know if it was done in compliance with our tree ordinance um and now let's look at Crystal Lake uh all of these are important um Assets in town Crystal Lake is an underutilized asset um so could it use some some support absolutely if we have grant money that's time sensitive meaning if we don't take it this year we may not get it next year or who knows when we'll get it that might impact the decision um but those are you know improving Crystal the lake while it is not NE a necessity it is still an asset of the town aspac is adjacent to it and I believe in the one one touch Phil philosophy so if we're going to do aspac we should do the entire property just get it over with and be done do it one time and not have to revisit it and generally when you have uh scale you get cost save so or cost saves so my expectation would be doing the entire project would probably cost us less than doing a portion of it now and another portion of it down the road um but those are questions that um we can address and I'd like us to understand the financing which is really the heart of his his concern uh with regard to the to that project both aspac and Crystal Lake um uh I'm only going to respond to the ones that I think require response uh outside of our normal um agenda items and I think that will do it for me but I do want to uh acknowledge uh one other thing yesterday I had the pleasure and the privilege to join unique performance art center uh who will be dancing as they always do at the tree lighting this year uh my daughter will be this is her first time dancing at the tree lighting my youngest my other daughters have already done it um um unique performance art center had a trip to see The Lion King and and this is amazing because uh about 90 residents of West Orange went together to see The Lion King on Broadway just yesterday and what is most remarkable about it is that uh Rafiki for those of you that are familiar with the plays is played by a West Orange resident in telis sing and Kayla her daughter dances with my daughter and the star of the show simuk is played by m and I'll mess it up and I apologize if I have if I do um mduduzi Madela uh the star of the show lives right here in West Orange uh one of the most successful plays in Broadway history um and so I was glad to to see it again we've already seen it uh and then we had an opportunity to interact with the cast afterward and that was led by two West Orange residents which made me even more proud so uh congratulations to that family uh the Meda family uh to the UPAC family um and to The Lion King family because uh they're providing um just an outstanding production and I'm privileged to know those too um all right I think that covers my comments um Mr Abbott would you like to respond to the questions that opposed to the administration or defer to probably going to be an amalgam here but uh thank you council president so I won't rehash all the numbers with the shared services but the intent of enabling statutes that allow for shared services that supposed to defay the costs from communities who really don't need this full-time and allow the communities who supplement them to defray those costs that they're going to incur it's never meant to be a windfall or a profit-making Endeavor um they're our neighbors we try to help them out they help us out and we don't lose money in the process um Mr fun director fun Zeno is available to come on if you want to hear some more detail about the proactive measures that are taken by the animal control we can bring him on Mr Fagan is Mr director fono director could you speak to the uh patrolling uh requirements for for our Animal Control Officers with regard to the rosand contract yes good evening council president can you can you hear me yes I can thank you sir okay yeah so the patrolling um we do proactive patrolling on a daily basis Monday through Friday um it probably for about an hour each day it's not a um an extensive Patrol um but our our veterinarian is also located in rosand so you know when we're bringing animals up there to be seen we're we're riding through the town so there's usually not a lot going on but we do do some Pro proactive um patrolling for licensed dogs or or loose dogs or um you know other other issues that that may arise um and of course we're always uh on call you know as a reactive basis as well so we respond to calls that we get from residents or from the police department um but but as for patrolling that's that's really what we do it's a we they sign in at the police department when they enter the town so the police know that they're there and you know they just ride throughout the town you know looking for for different things that could be issues and and they do that for about an hour day five days a week correct and that's a one person or two person crew one person got it question uh sure councilman scarper yeah could you just estimate the overall cost to run um the animal shelter with the patrolling the facility itself Council woman with all due respect I don't have those numbers in front of me um I could certainly get you that information but I wouldn't want to give you a figure and it be not accurate so can I get that information to you you know maybe tomorrow yeah sure anytime don't rush I just you know I just want to know okay I think it's something to look at well you know we did it's probably we did it in the budget it's in the budget but I just didn't remember yeah and I thought maybe he had an idea off the top I I'll I'll try and look it up does anyone else have a question for Mr director fonzo uh thank you sir you know a one person crew um five hours a week 52 weeks a year I mean that's it's essentially I mean we yeah that's probably about 5% of our labor cost uh and I'm doing a quick in my head and I do have a headache um and so if it is it's probably 5% or less of our labor cost um given that we have on call uh and and you know we have two two uh Animal Control Officers um so yeah uh I hope that helps answer the question with regard to the cost uh I'm happy to entertain when we get to that point if if there are some recommendations to increase it um but yeah I I I do think um Mr abbit your explanation is sufficient thank you uh with regard to trees as you know at least as well as I do we probably have the most comprehensive tree ordinance in the state of New Jersey um we have 142,000 put aside to plant 248 trees of 1 to 2 Ines in diameter 57 of them will have root barriers so years from now we have the infrastructure to keep the sidewalks from buckling in the streets and these trees won't have to be cut down the way we've seen uh in other areas um our tree expert is hoping to do this as early as December but to councilwoman gber Michaels Point yes this could go into the spring and that's why it was important to get this on and have it set up so that we could do it in the spring and we wouldn't lose the money that wasn't spent in the 24 budget um I don't know if you were specifically talking about the 300,000 but when I just spoke to the CFO about that when we drill down deeper that was not 300,000 solely for trees there was equipment and different things in there when the budget was passed so that's why it's 142,000 not 300,000 Chief AB let me just provide a little more DET sure if you would thank you we discussed um so in resolutions 45 and 46 2024 when we appointed emergency tree removal services we did encumber funds um for those tree removal companies and we've roughly encumbered 160,000 so that that's the the other piece to the 300K um at the time I think you know when we spoke in the meeting um you know that wasn't accounted for that that 160,000 um at least I didn't know about it so um you know it was a miscommunication there but um obviously that money we're not going to spend 160,000 before the end of the year I hope not um so some of that will free up at the end of the year what were the numbers on those ordinances again 45 46 45 and 46 my apologies 46 and 47 uh resolutions we probably done we did back in January got it appointing those tree removal companies thank you Mr I have a question regarding the type of trees you know what I I will defer I'll wait till we get there in the agenda I'm going to this okay about sees I think that's in one of the some of them are nonnative and I think one is considered invasive so I just I don't know if we can get our tree expert on but um I'm certainly not a tree expert so you know if if we can we'd be happy to do that final is there are there any more questions about the trees no so the final issue would be Crystal Lake um a few weeks back I got a call on my cell phone from senator mcken who said if I can find you a million dollars in the American Recovery Act that's going to go back to the federal government if it's not spent here in New Jersey can you find a way to spend it and it kind of had to be something along the lines of a Crystal Lake I mean we couldn't just plug a budget hole or anything like that with it so I said if you can find us a million dollars we'll find a way to spend it um when we put everything together with our town engineer and our recreation department and so on and sat down and brainstormed it you know we came to you know the high side if we said a million 6 but there's enough money in the open space accounts to cover the six so there's no direct implication to the taxpayer I mean if we're going to take a million six and turn OAC into I won't say what Joe D has done with Cherry Lane but something on a smaller scale the residents of West Orange I don't know how you say no to that but that's a that's a council decision online and just for clarity it's it's a million dollars as as is the grant that's the money that's coming to West Orange the 600,000 is our portion of it and that's going to come from our open space Recreation funds correct and and council president I mean and I'm not encouraging this but if you if you didn't want to spend the open space money you could probably do a much smaller scale project but I don't think it would you know it's not going to be what it could be you have the 600,000 in open space to really make this a venue to make it a real destination I I would think you'll want to do that once again that's a council decision can we get a copy of the grant councilwoman oh I'm sorry Council well that's exactly I was going to say can you send us a copy of the Grant I I don't have it I mean everything's been emails between Senator mckean's office and myself and um the americ I can I can ask supportive of this project I just would like to see it and we have the open space money we have a 600,000 to me it's a no-brainer and a win-win so uh I'm sorry in a perfect world that's ready aim fire sometimes it's you know get your missiles in the air and worry about aiming them once they're up there we have a deadline that I had to make a promise that if we take this we're going to have this project completed by December 31st of next year and you know this tonight really is just about the engineering the first step the first phase so if you're committed to it I mean it's it's really the finer details of of whether there's going to be fishing peers and bathrooms and this that's all down the road it's not really for tonight and that 600,000 includes that one 60 that you're talking about from tonight I believe that is our our Engineers here to speak about that um I'll defer to her directly to to cover that but that's my understanding director uh there's that 600,000 that's coming from open space uh is the 160,000 we're voting on tonight is that included in the 600,000 that we're expecting to pay from open space yes it should be included in every single one of the estimates when we do them we come up with a total project cost and then we include about 10 to 15% for construction and also for engineering design so yes it is included the S course got it and and just so we could thank you director um and just so that residents are clear open open space wreck um we pay taxes to put money into that account so you've already paid for those funds um uh I think two years ago we increased the assessment for open space I can't remember the details can you um does anybody remember mayor half a percent and we it it was half a percent and we increased it to 1% to 1% um so that's and that's what the money is meant to be used for you know and again my philosophy on that and is similar to what you're stating if we're gonna do it let's just do it and get it done and not have to worry about it any more and do it in a fashion that is befitting a Township like West Orange yes ma'am and I to Echo the council president's sentiments it would be a shame to lose out in a million dollar Grant to beautify our town I'm all for open space and Improvement of parks especially if it's not going to you know implicate taxpayers and to get that million dollar Grant is amazing so thank you to the administration and thank you to senator mckain for that and and just to take it a step further that money that people have already paid that's in that pot wait to be spent cannot be used to budgets or WR down debt or anything else it's solely for open space purposes y got it any any did we have any other questions because we'll get to the capital budget we'll address all of those then if that's all right I think that's I don't have I've covered all my notes if anybody has any questions I'd be happy to answer I mean I asked about the well I guess we'll talk about it when we get to the ordinance uh regarding the debt the debt um statement inquired if any of that has been paid off this year yes uh so on your supplemental debt statement um on page one under the decrease that's 6 and a. half million so that's a result of uh Bond principal payments we've made principal pay Downs on bond anticipation notes and principal payments on New Jersey infrastructure Bank uh loans so we paid down $65 million this year and could you I just I didn't hear you in the beginning I'm going for my papers is that reflective on here yes yes so it's oh the decrease I see it the decrease under the 6.5 million yes do you know how much we're going to retire next year I don't have the number um readily available right now could you email to us that would be very helpful when we're going forward and making decisions sure that are going to impact our future thank you question could you remind us what the total debt service is did I hear 12 million uh as per the budget yes um want to be accurate when I get not a problem so our min ipal Debt Service uh for 2024 was 11 A5 million repeat that number it's 11.5 million there's also deferred charges related to previous uh emergencies such as like the severance liabilities from last year that totaled 1.8 million so it's it's sort of a you know a muddy figure because some of that is is debt um but true Debt Service payments Bond principal B anticipation interest all that was 11.5 million I brought that up as a inquiry because I just wanted to say in reviewing some of the information I checked with some of our neighboring towns to understand what their Debt Service is as well a lot of times when you throw out these large numbers 12 million 11 a. half million it it is a little daunting um but when we check with our neighboring communities orange is 8 and a half million um Milburn all all of these are very close to 10 million so it's really not anything unique about West Orange and when you look at some of the other towns that are neighboring us we happen to be a larger town with just a small percentage of a higher debt service so I do want to make sure that the public is aware that when we throw out these numbers it is not uh unique to West Orange our neighbors have very very similar debt Services as well and a tremendous amount of more construction going on in their communities that so uh to address some of the concerns earlier and I think it was Mr kovak I could be wrong uh Mr DAC uh as our new CFO uh in his interview process and since he has uh accepted the job and been acting in that role uh he's been asked multiple times and agreed that we need to have a plan right um that's something we did not have under our last CFO it's something that the Council specifically myself requested for four years in a row just did not get um so we're going to give him the opportunity to do that work I have uh you know Full Faith and confidence in him thus far um and I think that will help us with some of the concerns that the community has pointing out where the debt service is on the supplemental debt statement can you can you do that for us so the The Debt Service that I just mentioned the 11 a half million in in the budget also includes interest so interest on bonds interest on notes so it it if you try to compare that to the supplemental debt statement you're not going to see an 11 a. half million do reduction because we're only reducing when we reduce principle or we pay down on the band anticipation note or we pay down the principal on the low loan um so on the supplemental death statement the 6,594 th000 is the principal is just the principal on on those different financing instruments so is it a coin it must be a coincidence then because you've got here um well I'll let it go because I I actually we do need to get to something else and I do appreciate it and we will uh still deal with some of this at the capital budget um all right any other questions um of the administration no I just want to make one point just just real quick we're going to talk about it soon enough um but in regards to the supplemental debt statement when you go to leg of municipalities and you do your classes and you you get all this great information there you know you ask what the average should be they recommend you never go over 3.5% currently we are at 2.14% which for us is high so to my um to uh councilman kak's point and to others out there we were running about 1.5 uh even a little less than that again we took advantage the past few years of the interest rates that were a lot lower when the rates were like under like 1% to uh for some infrastructure projects we had to do a few years back uh but again Rock Spring and the properties for the film studios uh ran us High here and so that's why it's very important that we um you know when new Council comes in to make sure that we move forward with that project and we get that that done um so we could get these properties uh paid off and um and whatnot so a lot of planning needs to be done in 2025 and I look forward to it councilman I just want to Echo my uh Council woman ceso sentiments um the fact that we are at 2.54% and that threshold from local Finance board is three and a half you know Council like kovak you're absolutely right and I want to thank you and I look forward to working working with you in January so thank you for your due diligence and your advocacy all right um I think we've covered that thoroughly Madam clerk uh the consent agenda approval of minutes of previous meeting public meeting of November 12th 2024 consent um report of Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids none Bill list are there any questions on the bills no resolutions are any resolutions being pulled this evening well well I I of i' would like to ask U before we actually get into that um for my colleagues because again I am not confident I'll make it through the end of the night uh we do have executive session on and we do have attorneys that are present as well so they're on the clock um can we go into executive session and then come back I'm that we um adjourn to I'm sorry that we recess into a executive session second okay all in favor any opposed okay we are recessed thank you madam clerk thank you thank you Mr Fagan uh we're going to call this meeting uh to order um going to request uh with the of my colleagues that um we vote on we pull 321 322 um 2880 and 2886 just take them out of order um and I'm going to excuse myself after those votes 2880 no it's 2870 it's 2870 2870 with storm water I'm I'm a no on 2870 so okay um but 2880 I have to do I have to we have to do otherwise we won't got yeah I gotta be here for that okay so we'll start with 321 this is resolution granting application for local license to operate a cannabis cultivation business y canah I offer a motion to approve 321 second okay hold on councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber Michel yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president R yes the motion carries yes why do we need to pull that instead of doing it in the consent because I'm not voting on anything else I'm just getting rid of this and then I'm going to excuse myself not feeling well I I offer a motion to approve 322 Okay resolution granting West Orange Wellness a renewal of its local license to operate a cannabis retail business within with the township of West Orange what number is this I'm 322 and I second it on the next page um okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G Michael C councilwoman Scarpa councilwoman Williams council president ruber yes congratulations the motion carries like to Good Luck yes good luck congratulations good luck guys Happy Thanksgiving T your fam Happy Thanksgiving are you [Laughter] thankful can you do 28 2880 d24 an ordinance mending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7- 7.3 temporary parking prohibition for snow plowing and removal 7-1 14.1 C night parking restricted and 7-12 parking prohibited for street cleaning and maintenance of the revised General ordinances of West Orange Oxford Terrace is there a motion to I move to introduce on second and final reading okay second is there okay thank you councilwoman Cina yes councilwoman okay councilwoman Scarpa councilwoman Williams council president Redford yes okay public hearing now I'm open public uh comment for uh just ordinance 2880 for those that are in the gallery only Ro for teris uh seeing none public comment is now closed the chair will entertain a motion I move for the adoption on second and second okay councilwoman Celina councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa councilwoman Williams council president retherford yes the motion carries so here's the challenge with 2886 there is a presentation I cannot sit through 53 slides are you going to I'm voting yes on 2886 I will make some amendments to it I will support some reduction in the total amount but I don't want to stop the process and then have it pushed into next year here's the problem you can't you can't make amendments unless vot on each amend can I make a recommendation yeah he's not feeling well yeah I know and I heard my Council colleague here she's going to leave when he leaves so I think that we should table this and have a special meeting to discuss this and have a presentation second that motion I second that's my motion I think we should do that and we need take time to go through it and to be done you know I want to you know I second the motion let's vote can we take a vote on that have and then Mr DAC I would still like you to give the presentation anyway so that the public is aware um but we're going to take the vote to table and and then we'll move forward okay so but you have directors here I'm terribly sorry no no I know I know they could still be here and you know we have to I have questions okay okay uh councilwoman to table councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman carpa councilwoman Williams no council president Rutherford yes okay um Mr tinac I'm gonna ask that uh you continue with your presentation um you guys will figure out a a DAT well that's not gonna pass now because I'm not here we'll need to get a date for the special meeting um is there any dates at do not work for you that you know of off did you pull 28 2883 I did not did I need to I wanted to I wanted first reading why would we pull it we either vote to introduce it or we don't yeah and I don't have to be here for that I wanted to wait on that get some information okay well here's the problem too so I know we're planning a special meeting and that's fine but these have to be advertised now a new public hearing yeah and if we don't so I can do it I have a very flexible calendar um need two meetings yeah this is a yeah oh yeah wait a minute so yeah that it's table you tabled it tonight so you have to have a meeting for first and then you have to have a meeting for second because you can't go into the next year because it's a right a different Council well then why don't we discuss it on the 10th in detail and make the revisions or whatever it is that we want to do and then we have a special meeting even if it's during lunch at 12:00 it's a zoom to vote on it on second reading just for this it's 30 that I like better yes okay so it has to be advertise so we have to figure out because you need so many days in between for advertising well I'm open on Wednesday the 11th or Thursday the 12th at 12:00 the bond we wouldn't we wouldn't have enough time for the advertising and why you advertise it this week we still have to do the first reading do you know what you want to pull from from the ordinance I do yeah but I'm leaving I'm leaving like right now he has like a dire situation um so I could do I can do lunch on the 12th or the 13th y but I'm off the 13th so I can do lunch on on Monday the advertising I I don't know we I we don't have enough time between meetings um to properly advertise and even have a meeting on the 19th or at 12 I'm not doing I thought we were saying 12 December just right before the holiday goes on 10 what is the advertisement reir yeah you you can't do Monday Tuesdays we do second reading our B Council one meeting one meeting at a time we believe it's 10 days you need in between um in between we have to confirm the introduction and the we'll have to confirm with our bond councel so so can have after that I'm done that week I'm can we have one one meeting can we have hold on a second can we have a special meeting to introduce and then so then you still need time to advertise can you go so so if we if we um it's possible I can call it if we I have a special meeting all right so you still need 10 days though right so no um all right well y'all figure that out because I gotta I gotta go little soon yeah thank you thank you that's where I'm going do we need to put somebody in yes okay I'm G ask a few minutes I need a minute or two all right we're GNA take a pause um I don't know you guys want to run the Mee yes please we're back okay okay so good evening West Orange our council president had an emergency and had to leave I make a motion to nominate councilman uh celino to be our council president dire of the meeting tonight I'll second it favor hi okay thank you so we all wish uh excuse me you're leaving at 11 okay okay we all wish uh councilman Rutherford to feel well all right so Madame clerk let's get back on a schedule here so we're going to go back to our resolutions what we had uh we had approved two resolutions 321 and 3 321 and 3 22 already approved my Council colleagues is anyone uh pulling any other resolutions this evening I have questions on WE pulling who wants to pull and then we'll go over questions they now pull 323 can you thanks 323 323 okay I would like to pull 327 27 [Music] um anyone else councilwoman scorpa any no I'm good now and I'm good so just double check okay all right go ahead question all right so we get a motion on oh question we have questions okay anyone have uh Council woman uh councilwoman Williams did 323 24 did 335 come out yes it was uh removed it was removed yeah yeah it's not here yeah yeah 32324 resolution authorizing execution of agreement for sale of block 17514 lck 2 councilwoman Williams 32324 um the updated agreement didn't have dates and address info so I was just wondering why we were getting a blank resolution not on there I also was wondering why we didn't get to Big it back off councilman Williams why you didn't get the appraisal to review and we haven't had time to and I I had do one question at a time because I have another train question on that as well so I don't know uh do you want to those do you want to those from the administ uh from the council so the appraisal's not in here it was done by Mark Hendricks um it was $7,500 I do remember that that was just recently done that was just recently done it's a non non-conforming which means you can't build on it contiguous lot to a current resident who wants to buy this from the township to add onto their lot um planning director looked at it put all kinds of uh restrictions in place that they can't you know subdiv they can never come back and subdivide it the Steed restricted and perpetuity it could probably put a a small garage or something on it if they wanted to but it can't be for commercial use that's all in the agreement so the only question I have regarding the small garage I did read that um so is it going to be and and what would be the um some garages have a second floor for storage or even living quarters yeah and this doesn't speak to whether or not they can do something like that that's not allowed in the zoning so they can't they would need a variance and it's deed restricted that they can't get any variances where where does it say is De restricted that no variances are allowed it may not be in a resolution but it was definitely the agreement in the contract for S we should have yeah I mean it's Zone that way anyway it it really would be redundant I don't think it would be because we have we have some garages that actually supersede just the basic garage throughout town where people have gone to zoning before and they've gotten those approved I'm not suggesting that this um homeowner would do that and I don't even object to that I I don't have a problem if that was what they wanted to do I'm just clarifying that it identify that and we know that that does happen um you know and so we've also had conversations about ancillary dwellings and this would fit the description if they can put a g garage there they can go up well I mean you can certainly add that language to the res I don't want to I don't want to I'm just suggesting that it doesn't say this and we're making the implication that that's what they can't do but this does not state that they cannot do that I don't have a problem I would support them wanting to do that I might have I mean for several reasons which don't even matter but my my comment is what we're stating they can't do is not reflected in the resolution Mark yeah Mr Moon can you there's a provision wait which on which page condition page three conditions of sale so other than a garage but a garage can have a second flooor with habitability and I don't I'm again I'm very clear I don't oppose that I'm just suggesting that that's not what we're saying out loud but that's not in sync with what this resolution is stating so when it it implies but again it's not clear it says that no residence or other structure other than a garage will be added to the real property I have a garage right now with the second floor if if I want I mean if I want make an appointment out of if you want so we should restrict that then I don't think we should I'm that's again I'm not suggesting we restrict it and I don't want to restrict it because again I don't have a problem if it's a garage and somebody wants to put a bedroom for a child or older sibling or a older family member I think that's permittable but what we're saying is that you can never build on it it's de restricted the deed restriction does not indicate that they cannot do that if it's above a garage but it has to be in accordance with whatever the zoning laws exist for that property anyway so if they're allowed to do it like a garage that includes a resident that convince we're really splitting hairs here be honest I mean okay can I can we so so so so can are you are you are are you are you done with your comments yes and I'm not suggesting that we put any additional deep restrictions here okay not it I'm suggesting that we table this until the next meeting why huh why I would like to look at the appraisal we we don't have it and this is as counc maren said a very vague uh resolution so here's the problem with that it also says in here that the closing of title has to occur within 14 days um of the Township's approval of the sale and I understand that but it also says that time is of the essence so I don't necessarily want to push this out this is a homeowner that is trying to buy land that basically is non-developable but at the end of the day coun and we and we know that the appraisal was for $7,500 whether we see the appraisal or not I do recall the conversation so that's not an issue for me again it's just the clarity and what they can do forward in the future my other question because I've had residents asked me this because we always speak about Township properties and we you go to sell them I've had residents come to me and say why wasn't this small parcel of land put out to bid why wasn't a fair and open process so if someone from the administration or Mr Moon well hold on if you can just explain it for the benefit of the public because there are people who have asked me and I don't know to the question these are undersized Lots you can't build on can't put a house on them can't put anything on they're smaller than the lock except a garage well no not even by itself garage swelling these are these these lots are smaller than the minum size requirements for any lot in that that area so what happens is when there're small pieces there's the the statute requires that you first you look to the adjacent Property Owners because they can simply just take that undiz lot back to their existing lot and that doesn't whatever and the council proved this and Council proved these transactions because there was a a couple of them um a couple years ago so that's where the the time of the essence I'm not going to support because we we approved this a while back if I'm not mistaken my issue I'm sorry Council are you done I'm done I just I don't hey I don't feel comfortable making a decision on something when I haven't okay I I may I may support you for this reason so Mr Moon here's my question for you so to that point one another situation where we did this the person was putting on an addition to their home which they did but then uh we found out and Zoning how to go there they started using this addition that was attached to their home for business purposes with entertainment in their home so that um I Believe Miss Adams had to go there um so what could we put in here to restrict that kind of occurrence wait or or just just it's any zoning violation that's enfor that's enforcement we have to send are enforcement people out there but why would we wantan to I don't understand I'll explain later I'll exp understand the logic well if somebody is buying property and they want to and and proper and and they want to enhance their property we should not be telling them that they can't enhance their property no if they've duly purchased this land and they want to yeah again if they're using the property in a use that's not permitted yes that's a violation of the Z regardless of whether or not they have an additional L exactly that's an enforcement right it doesn't matter if they're getting an additional previously owned property that's an enforcement Council M Scara did you have any comments um no but I would support um councilwoman gbra Michael if she wanted to research it a little further I just want to see the the valuation and and Council Williams said to clean this add I don't see the urgency well we may not see the urgency but it may be urgent to the homeowner who was try to do this right but it it says here time is of the essence so again you know we can't get things and then have time to in the I mean it's not the piece of paper from the appraiser Mark Hendrick but it's it's right in the paragraph it says the buyers will pay to the township $7,500 purchase the property which is consistent with the valuation provided by Mark Hendrick with all his titles which we haven't seen and I think we made it clear these last two years okay about seeing appraisals and seeing information and you know what if we it and you want to make a motion gonna make a motion in the dece the December 4th meeting that we're gonna have can we bring this back then to vote on it meeting on the fourth that's a interviews you're talking about that's not a real can't we advertise just to vote on this and no no you want to do that you know it I know it's getting late and everybody's nerves are a little afraid but like we're making this a bigger deal than it is you get these things if you want these things like you got a whole week ask me for them I'll get them for you we're not hiding anything from you but you know we're sitting here at 11 o'clock at night and it's like oh I want this appraisal on5 I'm not think of everything nor is anybody else up here or down there going to think of every possible question you can come up with read your packets when you get them call me email me text me I'll give you anything you want again I think we made it clear these last two years I'm for acceptance this resolution my question has been answered thank you I think that's unfair we're not mind readers so if certainly anything the council ask my questions have been answer so I'm I'm moving for the accept is there anyone who's going to second that so we can give these people the bit asking for I'm going to Second it I'm satisfied with my answers okay so what happens if this Waits until December 10th I would like that question answer I don't know if there I don't know what their deadline is I don't know there's a closing exactly there may be a closing I'm not asking the administration together who should know they Law Department put this together not okay the Law Department what happens if we wait until the December 10 through it doesn't go through I didn't hear you doesn't go through I mean it doesn't go through till we approve it you got to prove it to get for it to go through so just get sto not if they have a deadline it's really unfortunate why are we just getting it now like we why situation councilwoman we send out the agendas every even Friday we got to but why are we getting things when there's for the next this my ordinance and we have discussed this so many times and it's okay and we've also discussed many times for the last two years that we want appraisals in our packets okay so okay remind me then because then I can go to them and say Hey listen I need I know but we sound like broken records we've been saying it for the last years and it's not fair to this homeowner right now because we haven't seen the valuation it's just something that says there's a valuation that was done for $7,500 th this was a price that was agreed upon by maybe not this Council but the last Council and so it was an agreed upon price okay again information that we don't so it's been moved prop second it and I know we're still in discussion excuse we're still in discussion and and and I'm running the meeting so are you going are are you satisfied are you I'm honestly I'm not but now I you know it's I don't want to hurt the homeowner and it's unfortunate it I don't think the two weeks I I mean again I can't speak for the homeowner if they and I would ask that you because may have a closing de excuse me councilwoman I'm speaking let me finish my thought it's a little late so my mind's not my words aren coming as quick as you like um but so if they are taken out a a loan to do this it might be it might be coupled with the refinance it would be time of the essence yes that's so so okay okay so but I would like going forward I think we' made it clear the last two years you're selling something we want to see the the appr phasal period we even talked about transparency this is a lack of transparency we've talked about having it even on the website so residents have access to it and can see it and it's frustrating yeah okay well I've never dealt with this Council on a conveyance of a piece of property to a private resident so you may have been talking about for the last two years we didn't talk any property okay okay very very very self okay listen listen everyone on at the end of the day Council also adopted ordinance authorizing the sale of these two lots yes at the price so again no no this council did not no this council did but if you read my email that I sent on Sunday it did state that so call the vote pleasee but also if something's not in our packets an Administration forgets we we got to ask for it and and and just to be fair okay go ahead Madam clerk honestly that we forget we have a lot of things that we do you know this this is a small part of my job I do a lot stuff in my office so it's you know it'd be nice to just a reminder I'm happy to do whatever I'm asked to do thank you madam clerk thank you um councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes okay okay let's see what else was 327 d227 resolution council president real quick are we going to be doing the presentation of the uh Bond ORD the the presentation I'm only asking because our directors are sitting here and if we're not going to show it we could dismiss them they can go home 11 o'clock that's 12 I'm just asking the question I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna survey the council thank you for bringing that Mr Smo because we were almost done here good I think it makes sense to do the presentation only if we can get another date so that way we can pass this Bond ordinance this year if not there's no point in doing it you're gonna have to do it again for the new for the next Council that's my sense I think we should see if another date can happen that second meeting even if it's a 15minute zoom meeting to vote Yes for on did you clarify the DAT second reading what are the ramifications of leaving this to to the next Council that's a good question I mean maybe we should just do that and we could do more thorough job stat statutorily there's no ramifications okay we just simply wouldn't have a 2024 Capital ordinance in place okay so um you know there may be ramifications for some of the grants associated with that's the question with some of these projects I can't answer that which is the question I had earlier it came back on the camera for director alth okay are you done with your question yeah that's the question what's the ramification with the grant so my question to director zth is what happens what is the deadline for the two or three line items where we're going to get grant money from the the do you said it was March so if we pass it let's say end of January or January end of January you know first and second reading will be too late so for the Walker Road from gy Avenue to South Valley Road and also for South Valley Road from Walker Road to the Township Line and Rooney Circle Improvement which is basically known as the ltpf 2023 uh njdot grant that needs to be award no later than March okay so we have time so that's okay March it needs to be order by March 2025 the second one correct the one for $325,000 including the $200,000 cdbg grant that one we got a DOT ground for a million okay hold on I was looking at the first page I was looking for my paper okay okay for Gregory Walker South Valley yes so this one's March 2025 yes all right next the next one will be the unipal a 2024 uh Morris Road Sussex Road and Hunterdon Road improvements that one needs to be awarded no later than May 2025 we got plenty of time thank you so much and there's one more on here which one uh that has to do cdbg Grant uh 325,000 including repairs and improvements to Valley Road Kingsley Street North fieldb Milling Paving storm drain installation curved sidewalks 88 compliant ramps and driveway aprons that one has already been awarded M okay uh but we definitely need to that would basically be for the 202 2024 cdbg and that will need to be awarded no later that I will say June july2 yes because project completed by December of 202 that's the problem with the cdbg grants the CBG grants typically we you just find out now that you got awarded Okay so in less than a year I need to have it designed bid and built okay thank you so much director you're very wel here's well I have a question director Calo um you're saying you need to have it assigned build and design bid and build design bid and built yes understandably does the March give you enough time to do all those things actually the one for March is already under design okay actually uh return markups to the uh this Consulting engineer so I am hoping to get them back early this year when we come back have one last review also I needed to have it submitted to do for approval once I get the approval I could go out to bid if the fund has been um you know appropriated okay okay so so here's again we're we're in a situation and you have a situation where these projects were all priced out months ago and the longer you push them back so that this has to get done immediately in January because first meeting Mr Kia I know sweating it out because a few of his playground projects in the past and I know this past year um in one neighborhood um they didn't they don't get all their equipment because the price increases go up and they've been going up drastically and quickly as we all know every time we go to the store so same applies here you know these projects have been p uh that were projected months ago you know the the pricing has increased so we can't can't keep delaying this too long are we able to get this done this year or not Madam clerk well let's put it this way if you adverti in the Star Ledger I mean I'm sorry if you advertised in the chronicle it would be advertised on December why can't you advertise tomorrow I can advertise tomorrow but it won't be in until if I advertise it tomorrow then it'll be in on the 12 for the store Ledger okay okay um and our meeting scheduled the 10th yes so that brings us to um so that's seven days yes so it's advertised on the 12 but you have to wait 10 days which BRS us to days prior to the first reading 10 days after you know so say that's the 19th then 10 days after that which brings us to the 30th because 29th is guess on a weekend yeah not Happ and Then star ledgers the 14th and the 31st which is new absolutely I'd like to see us just do this a first meeting in January yeah that makes a lot more sense we have more time to take a really good look at it we don't have a choice unfortunately yeah there's it's not going she's gonna her projects are going to go through she she's already doing the work on all of them anyway there's no reason not to take the time to do this right and on in January Well everybody's G to do their homework and make sure they review everything and first meeting Jump Right In and to the five yeah all right can we go on been um it's been tabled so the directors thank you for your time this evening apologize for keeping you out all night well it wasn't me I didn't vote to table I voted to proceed everybody else voted to table okay so let's get you out of here then all right so with that that is now we're at 3:27 um do we have a motion for three oh no um can we now do the consent agenda there was nothing no no no no no councilwoman uh this is you have 327 you questions on yes yes I pulled it all right I'm going to read the title resolution authorizing an award of contract for 20124 tree planting at various locations to Frank galberth and Son excavation and demolition in the amount of $142,100 council G Michel yes one moment to pull it out for my pile okay okay so we talked a little bit about this earlier so this would be uh okay director cabala so oh no not really I think we need the Forester on um yeah well good there were concerns raised by constituents to me regarding the species of trees in 327 um the and I'm probably going to buture the pronunciation the okame Cherry juanan Cherry Autumn flowering cherry hza Dogwood columnar Sergeant Cherry ivory silk Japanese tree lilac Queen Elizabeth hedge maple Ruby Red Horse Chestnut and the red Spire here are not um native to this area and that the Queen Elizabeth hedge maple is considered invasive I think native trees include October Glory red maple the Green Mountain sugar maple American hornbeam robin Hill I can't even pronounce this melon here Jefferson Elm Armstrong red maple swamp white oak and single stem River Birch are okay um and there's a question mark by Princess Diana um a melon her actually correction in other words you have questions about you have questions about the species the forestar I assum uh did this list and so my question would be I thought according to our new tree ordinance we can only plant native trees that understanding that's what the ordinance is so if these trees are not a part of the ordinance and what is native then they just have to be rejected the the I don't think the entire we it's it's according to ordinance now yes these trees that are listed can no longer be planted in West Orange especially not by the township which is the question that the residents reached out to me stated which is why I took time to read everything they said that all these that I mentioned are not n are non-native and they should not be planted by the township so I don't understand why this is coming okay so so obviously we're gonna okay so so let me ask the ministration this question these trees I know he said he could get done for December 1 are we able to hold the funding over to the spring because I'm also concerned I know it's December you could probably get them in the ground but they're smaller trees and if we have a heavy snowfall they're they're gonna die at the last meeting we said that we were going to spend the money for the tree we were going to in so too but according to what this explanation was that he was going to try to push it for December so my recommendation is can we not do that in December they could rework excuse me guys excuse uh Council Council colleagues um they could rework what they would plan and are we able to do that Mr DAC I guess so we can encumber the funds um and you can work out or we can work out with the actual trees that we we end up planting um okay what if they cost more than some of these trees you we're gonna encumber our money and we're just gonna have less trees yeah okay thank you so okay so we're able so we should pass this this evening then well I would like to make an amendment um if we're going to pass this this evening okay counc what do what do you recommend amendment that I would like to offer is that we identify the trees at a later date yeah simple enough yeah I'll second that we identify the trees at a later date we want to go ahead and move forward with 3 27-24 our objection is to the type and the variation of the trees so I'm going to ask that we remove the tree list uh from the resolution and that that be included at another date we will have a conversation uh tree expert tomorrow I don't know why he okay trees that on okay okay wait wait wait so so do you recommend we make that Amendment or or cmfo feels that if we we can do this now and then negotiate the species of trees it may be more may be less we don't know okay excuse me Council my question is there are very specific bid specifications right that's my concern that's my concern I don't think we can do this that was the case we could have went back these last two years and done this with other bids so I and we didn't have the money for the other we didn't have money to plant trees in the previous I'm just saying in general talking about bids in general whatever it is you know we couldn't do certain things with the garbage contract with the bid so I think that this is going to be a liability legally I don't think we can just go in and say I think we need to vote this down I don't know if there's a way you guys can put a bit out real quick just for okay and that's fine but again we need to see with the funding so this is a Mr DAC question are we able to do that are we able to turn this down this evening I think it's bring it back for the funding next I I think there's there's two issues I can reserve the funding for purchase of trees I can do that from a budgetary perspective the question is that do we need to reject this because yes it's not responsive to the bid or is our bid spec not in responsive to our ordinance is probably the yeah the bigger issue so basically Did we tell them what wanted did the bit specs tell them specifically what trees to order was this just a proposal or was that a purchase order no it would have been a bid this went out the bid Council specifically asked that that it be bid and and we did it we did it quickly and got it done but you know I I don't know anything about the species of trees that was all Walter K so I have another question for you it if we vote this down and you're rejecting it because it violates our tree ordinance can we go back and look at the others and see if they have trees let's say Frank the other the other company you have to bid rebid depends this company is ineligible they should have been rejected because we never should have gotten this because it violates a ordinance right I get what you're saying so they all say native but what was in the bidre the bigre what I'm asking is if the other company did bid on trees that are native to the town can we go ahead and give them the contract in the next meeting that's my question was that even in the bid I don't know but that's why I'm asking the administration I have no idea so the administration could give us the recommendation of of what we should do here need a recommendation it's a it's a legal question it's Mr moon at we have to see the bit if we specifically said what trees or we said send this proposal for trees right and if this is what they gave us they did not violate our bits backs right they by the bids backs I don't know I I'm I'm literally pulling up the B okay so maybe we can okay so why don't we move on okay so so are there any other let's move on looking acting council president um I do have the bid specs in front of me okay we did provide uh the list that you actually see uh attached to the resolution that 2024 tree planting tree list we did provide that in our bids so then can we cross reference these trees with our ordinance and see why these trees were included should because obviously we put out the bid if you're saying that these trees are included then we put out a bid in violation of our own ordinance yeah right but we also have to confirm that they truly are not native to well if we excluded them in our ordinance because we didn't exclude particular she's being told her they're not oh so we don't even have documentation we're waiting for the Forester I mean no no no I understand but at 11:30 we're not going to get the Forester these were questions understand that but what I'm saying is we need confirmation that the point that we've already addressed table weable it but the with us taing everything is again if this was a question that didn't just come up tonight it did just come up tonight and people are contacting us to ask us about questions then this could have been given to the administration just like all the other times when we wait until we get here and produce questions that they are not prepared to answer and it just takes our meetings longer and longer longer and guess what councilwoman Williams this this question just came up tonight that's why I'm asking it tonight okay so councilwoman did it come up it didn't come up in public did you get an email or correspondence during the meeting I got a correspondence said she said this was asked of her earlier so which one is it it was earlier okay you want to know the exact time I was told at 3:44 p.m. that's I didn't see it until after got here okay it's getting late it's getting late all right so do I have a motion for this to be tabled yes table this okay and there's a second councilwoman castelino to table councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams I could not even sure okay okay so now we are done with all the items that were pulled now we have the adoption of no no no excuse me can I run the meeting lady yes you may run thank you okay so we do have questions few my colleagues have questions um start with the first page any questions on the first page 315 through 321 I um this questions for director for um any of the resolutions regarding the emergency Appropriations I just want to know I noticed in the resolutions that you had notified the administration and either October or like a month ago about whatever problem did we ever get notified to or was it just the administration I don't remember because it's so long ago we typically just notified uh the purchasing agent and the administration got it right that was my only question you're good do you have any other questions on the rest of the agenda on on that page no I do have a question with 331 I just want to confirm because it said this is from the 2023 capital budget that that the money has already been bonded and it's allocated for the Stag Field improvements yeah this is resolution purchase yes thank you that's all thank you so much councilwoman Williams do you have any questions no I'm good okay so now M we all answer it and I move for the adoption of the consent all second all in favor any opposed okay the uh count I'm sorry the consent agenda is approved okay we did not do uh 2870 ordinance on second and final reading ordinance amending chapter 25 section 29 of Township Code related storm water management councilwoman oh I need a motion I move for the introduction on second and final reading I'll second that okay okay Council hold on so sorry councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael no councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes okay so the motion fails the the motion fails um do we have okay so being that we have the director here and there are we on first reading ordinances uh we we are but I have before the director leaves I have a question about the the motion that just failed um will you be stor Water Management the storm water management director we need to have a more thorough discussion so is there a possibility at the next meeting you could give us a this failed this evening so there needs to be I know you have a plan that you're working on I sent an email that you had answered for us and you know we thought we could go through this and do questions but it failed we're not going to be able to do that tonight would you be able at the next meeting do a presentation or do you want to have a few moments to explain to us the reason why this is here well it was approved on first reading by the council I would say probably two or three meetings ago and after that it went to the planning board now it came back um I know that somewhere in between somebody made U comments number of enhanc storm water management um ordinance to incorporate I believe it was minor development which was something minor development and maintenance which is was something that I had um provided the council last year around May so if you want me to do a presentation that's fine I could go through the changes which are very minor um can I just say one thing so if it's you you at the next yeah but then it does make prove it yeah because no no we not gonna No not tonight but I'm to schedule the reason why I'm bringing it up now is because I she sat here all night and I want to give her the opportunity to explain you know what what what is needed and and the whole point I can tell you I sent I sent around changes that needed that included the minor and the maintenance and they were very extensive and that's what I want to see addressed so I'm gonna ask the document that I sent around to all the council people and to so what I did provide in my comment go ahead go ahead Mr Mo so my understanding was there was there was initially an ordinance that was required to be introduced because there are updates that are mandated by the DP okay we should that was our first reading that was approved by the council that went over to the planning board in the interum there was additional changes that were requested that were I believe in addition to the required ones that were not mandatory by the D but just additional changes that want to be made this is the second reading because we've gotten the comments now from the planning board now we can address the second per second reading this does not preclude the additional changes that are being requested all this does is bring the the ordinance in compliance to what D mandates oh so you that you can continue to make we can do one of those things where we can continue to make amendments until we get it right is that is that what you're saying okay okay let's take turns go ahead Mr Moon let's Mr Moon finish the DP is required that we have to update our storm water management system by when it was supposed to be in July I'm sorry could you repeat that last year last year July was supposed to be done we are actually a year behind if not more right so the the rules were adopted last year in June we supposed to have adopting them this year in June 17 of 2024 here we are is November and we haven't make the adoption of the ORD and we are not in compliance with NDP strong water rules okay do we want to make our ordinance more stringent is off to us as a Township yes the way the ordinance reachs right now is the way that you guys approved it on first reading went to the planning board got approv we got comments back from them and this is what we have no no we want a more stringent ordinance okay so so so what I'm hearing and what I'm going to recommend and I hope you all could follow the recommendation is we should put this back on and get this approved for the next reading so we're in compliance with the D and then then you can make amendments in January no I want to be clear your decisions are either to leave the ordinance not in compliance with the D because you want something different we want something or a we can't do that Susan yes she can let let her continue let them let them no let them continue outside let let him finish then it's going to be your turn or you adopt the ordinance to become into compliance if they want to make it stricter then you can have the democrate vote and you can have all the evaluation consideration you want I think we do first time Michael why would you want the town to be outside of compliance okay wait wait excuse me order I don't have I don't have the gav go ahead councilwoman speak to my uh Council colleague councilwoman Scarpa I hear where you're coming from when we first adopted it that night on first reading we had someone come from Verona and explain about she had someone excuse me Council and let her finish okay that's right please don't interrupt someone came to speak in public comment about Verona storm water management ordinance which is a much more stricter ordinance and I know that you've been working hard to make that happen and IED it woman finish I told you I would I'm in support of it 110% and we'll make it happen with the next incoming Council I told you I support it but the issue is you just heard our we're notal deal hold on let me finish let me coun it is a big deal let me finish we never want to be out of a compliance or violate laws there's enough of that that's already happening let's not I don't think that's the reason to hold on can I finish I'm trying Council we have our legal department that's telling us we have our director who's telling us I you know honestly didn't realized that we were out on compliance for that long I don't know if it's possible if we can make a motion to resend the last vote and I hold on I'm trying trying to compromise here and talk so we don't have to wait until December time we have an extension can we make motion to resend that vote and revote because we don't want to be out of compliance resend what vote the vote that we just made for this we didn't we haven't made a vote we're getting ready to vote we just voted it went two2 it failed the vote fa ask can I finish I still I'm speaking I have them speak to the councilwoman scar I'm not something not minimum development in addition pass the administration specifically legal because we shouldn't be out of compliance if we can make a motion the question the question thank you who made the motion who made the motion excuse me councilwoman nobody made yes we just had a vote two two the that motion you made one and Michelle seconded it okay so then all we have to do is if there is agreement by one person that's what I'm trying to say then yes then just call for attention call for I'm trying to but I'm also trying to speak to my Council college she understand she's not going to support it but it doesn't matter I have a right speak motion ladies to to revote I make a motion to revote I'll second that is that so we're not out of compliance okay is that the correct motion Mark a motion to revote okay I just want to make sure I make a recommendation we should definitely try to vote so that we are not out of compliance with the New Jersey Department of environment prot we are actually working with NDP to get in compliance we can definitely work after this and make amendments to our ordinance how quickly how quickly could we could we January let her speak let her speak everybody one person at a time please look I said I was leaving at 11 o'clock it's 11:30 and y'all are fighting over dumb stuff all right councilwoman this is very important we director finish your thought director and then we're going to finish at the minor C woman yourself you know it's important it's important and I do know that I had put together an ordinance last year for minor development and I did review the ordinance that you had made comments on and I believe I did provideed that ordinance to legal and legal did send it to you for review so but it was totally different and CH totally changed the no it wasn't change were I provided my comments right I crossed out what I thought it wasn't needed I right definitely don't believe that everything that was written in there needed to be there because I thought it was redundant I mean I think a lot of the things were important to be in there and you're not a professional can I say something so wait are are you are you done director okay thank you thank you okay let's continue with the vote I need a yes okay thank you thank you councilwoman Celina yes keep thinking so councilwoman Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes thank okay so that's okay so in January you could work on this and I already have that was a motion to revote right so to vote on it again right so now we have to vote on that was a motion to revote wait that was a motion to revote so now we have that was motion to revote now we're really going to vote adoption of the resolution okay um councilwoman Casto councilwoman keer Michael councilwoman Scarpa no councilwoman Williams yes and for the record let us be very clear that we have an elected official sitting in the seat who is suggesting that the township remain out of compliance council with the state of C let's get this done no we will but I'm G to be very clear on on voting positions and what you're willing to do and jeopardize our municipality that you serve we take an oath remember yes that's not fair to say to call her out because you newy ladies so you know what I will call out ex you violate New Jersey con viate anything yes you do okay Council colleagues can I have order I don't have the gavel I don't feel like reaching for it I'd like to get this meeting done ordinances on first reading let's see if we could get through this 2881 d24 go ahead Madam clerk please ordinance um of the township of West Orange uh for the issuance of special emergency notes in an amount of not to exceed $1.8 million doll to fund contractually required Severance liabilities resulting from the retirement of employees in the township no it's not that I move for introduction on first reading do I have a second okay second I I have okay wait wait Council one Council okay let's let's get this through first we gotta you want to do your questions yeah because I'm not gonna vote on it unless my question go ahead okay go ahead go ahead I made it very clear in the last meeting that because we got the report from the com controller in 2022 about excuse me who's your who's your question directed to which my question is directed to our CFO Mr daac I asked you in the last meeting if you would go to the com controller to make sure that these payments are lost but they're not unlawful because of the report we got in 2022 when we got an audit from them and you said you would ask the administration and get back to me and I haven't heard that we have not gone to the comp troller okay that answers my question because I can't vote on something that's unlawful so that way we can get another report from the comp saying that we violated whatever statute so so this is a tool that is used by every municipality to space out their Severance payment so so that taxpayers are not hit with the burden in the very next budgetary year I have inquired I have asked I have gone to different attorneys and different municipalities and every municipality uses this as a tool that's great did you go to the comproller and ask if this was unlawful or not certain comproller was also wrong well so if you choose not to vote on it because you want to EMT burden our taxpayers with a $1.8 million assessment and no these funds have already been paid to each of the individuals who have retired the only tool that this is being used for again for those who own homes in West Orange and I am one of them most of us are who sit at the stas pay taxes to the municipality we don't want to get hit with a $1.8 million price tag in 2025 because that will be on top of the budget okay so what I'm well what before I call the vote I am going to ask Mr dinc if this does not pass what is the implications to the taxpayer so the implication is is that we're going to have to raise the 1.8 million in calendar year 2025 and how do you how do you plan on doing so it it'll be in the budget as a deferred charge for overe expenditure of appropriation for the full amount um so it's it's going to eat up 1.8 million of the budget of the operating budget yeah it'll be a deferred charge so so this year when we were able to to cut that out like and and 1.8 million is how much in dollars and cents to the taxpayer this year this year's going by this year's budget I I don't have the tax Point memorized in you know the average assessment but it it's it's was a percentage it's a $100 million budget so it's it's nearly 2% so just just keep that in mind I hear your point I I understand but there is a there is a you know there's a action that will be taken the com trollers report indicated that the township was paying out people who resigned not retired for their sick time to my knowledge we have never ever done that so the com troller report was incorrect it's that simple you you want to believe it you can believe it you don't you don't the other issue that they brought up was that in the contracts and the language will be rectified in these upcoming contracts is that um anybody who did not have uh was hired after 2010 or 11 20 2010 2010 cannot be paid out more than 15,000 for a six month nobody's retired yet because nobody has their time in yet it's only 2024 almost 2025 so that's 15 years nobody can retire with 15 years of work so we we don't do the one thing they said we do and nobody's retired yet so there's really nothing done wrong I know it's great great sound bite for the TV and everything people stand up here and say oh the com troller said this and the com troller said that and we're so evil and transparency and good governance and all the cliches bottom line is none of it was done okay thank you chief M Madam clerk yes councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber councilwoman scorpa yes councilwoman Williams yes okay motion passes thank you okay uh Madam clerk 2882 DH doesn't pass it does pass she said yes I said yes you need four votes for its pass that's a bond money you need four Bond ordinance you need four right yep you need four to bond failed okay so there'll be just so everybody know just so everybody is clear we're going to put a million eight budget next year build that hole so glad thank you Jesus great sasm 22-24 an ordinance creating a reclassification and salary schedule of certain Township of West Orange employees setting forth their titles classification and salary ranges and adopting a salary guide and establishing the employees status as a Township employe under the guidelines of the New Jersey Department of personnel I make a motion to move to 8882 thank you is there a second second thank you councilwoman Celina yes councilwoman gber B councilwoman councilwoman Williams question councilwoman um go ahead CC I have a question regarding the extra Duty assignments not the road jobs um I noticed going up here you know I used to go to esset grade in the movie theater you see a lot of police and you don't see as many now my question is when looking at the salaries they seem a little low for the extra Duty assignments what was it back then has it changed much I mean it's my understanding the the dollar figures only changed minimally why aren't we making it more realistic dollar amount especially if the cost isn't to the taxpayer the talk the tax the cost excuse me it isn't for it's the cost is being accured by the vendor who's paying the police so I have been in discussions with the unions about raising the rates and the fees and um everybody's kind of desirous of waiting to see how the contracts went and raising it after that but the other thing is that back when you're referring to when you're growing up the uh some of the Restriction put in place by The Landing boards required that West AR police be hired and it was a case or an attorney general's decision I don't recall which they're not our guys consequent to that yeah that you can't do that you can't restrict that West Orange Police or Trenton police or any other municipality for you to subcontract subcontract it out to a security firm yeah much cheap yeah that's common sense the lot of but the amount didn't go up I'm trying to look for my notes my understanding is a couple of dollars I'm all for raising it I have okay so you'll get back to after the yeah once the contracts are done we'll and raise the rates and I'm sure that our Bine officers and folks working in the place Department would appreciate that too it doesn't make sense that you know that money's going to okay elsewhere you know and it just I mean I suspect in most instances it still will because they can probably contract with private security cheaper than and I've noticed too yeah they're not maybe not right now the rate just doesn't the rates AR offici very very low okay the chief will get back to us thank you Chief anybody else good okay thank you madam Clark 2883 d24 in ordinance amending chapter 25 section 24.7 of the general ordinances of West Orange filming I'd like to make a motion to table this this evening second thank you second I had asked for additional information um which I didn't expect to receive tonight with the comparisons of the other towns sent that to you yeah but I I look at it this afternoon I know F I know it's my understanding if I can make a comment regarding this it's my understanding that our fees are not in sync with um some of the other municipalities and I'm very concerned because I know that we have had uh some of our filming opportunities that have gone to other min IP alties so if you sent that information uh Mr moraldo can you share with us um that so that maybe we don't table this because I would I would hate for us to to lose income at the end of the year up so I can just so what happened was we last year the mayor asked that we go into and I'm I'm sorry I'm trying to pull this up because we're already film film ready well no we're not film ready no we are film ready we are film ready film ready but we're not getting fil every opportunity to receive I know I know but councilwoman here here's here's the thing we got to look we we set we set rates we set rates for a reason because when the filming companies come it's great we want them to come to bring Revenue but they also bring course you know traffic and and other inconveniences in in the township so I want to see what the rates are and and study it I don't want to just look at it for two seconds tonight what I did was I did send it to you and so what happened was we we received the film designation this p March I think so and that was after a year of applying and the mayor had asked us to to look into it so we went to the seminars and we applied we did everything we're supposed to do um when we looked at the or the fees for the permits when we last year changed our permits we were looking at Revenue we made ours a little higher once we were awarded recently we had several Productions come to town some were major motion films and some were a little bit less um and and we got a phone call from the commissioner I got a phone call from the commissioner because they they called the mayor and said you know our fees are a little high we we we're able to um accommodate to make things a little bit more palatable uh because the director has of zoning had the the planning director has the ability to change it but the state said look if you have this designation and you want the purpose of being able to bring people into the community more filming um you want to lower your fees because it's going to bring in more work it's going to be more employment it's going to stimulate the economy and that's stuff that I said to you I also gave you the link to the the New Jersey fil Commision so you can see that and what I did do is I went in to see who all the communities were um awarded this year and I did a comparison that's what I sent to you of all the different communities and what they charge now we did have one film this year that was supposed to come in but because the burrow kingburg which is not I don't think here Burl Kingsburg doesn't charge at all they decided to go to kingburg you got nothing for it you know not that sometimes notoriety but it's about supporting the Arts which is what we do that was OAC the oack yeah we support the Arts and that we're trying to support the Arts so I put this together and I put all the numbers together and I did it by comparison and the average is what what we discussed the thing is the ordinance doesn't affect thees right the ways that the ordinance is set up the fees are established by resolution right so but there's a lot of deletions in our ordinance yes and that that was done with the film Commission in order for us to retain the film ready designation so we're adopting their recommendations because the township wants to keep that filmation right so we if we change this ordinance what we're doing is to say that like we did with the other uh ordinances that we're going to set our fees through resolution so what we're asking you tonight is to take into coordinance become into New Jersey film ready compliance and give us the ability to set our fees to resolution so you're not you're not setting fees tonight you're setting you're setting the the ability the next council meeting when this if this if this passes and go on you will also have a resolution that will accept the fees so but but again they are going to be lower because that was the recommendation there's a lot of language that was deleted out of this ordinance that protects the township so I I'm a little I I get we want to be film ready but yet is it is it worth it if we're taking it and again I have to really study it I didn't have time to because we got the capital budget I was worried about you made a motion I support waiting okay you know I have a right to take the time to look at it there's been a lot of stuff on this agenda we need to understand so can we just call the vote okay just say one thing before we do so this is on first reading so that means it would have to be the new year because the same situation 1210 moreon counc I'm willing to do the work if we pass it on first reading and not I can't promise I'll pass it on second reading I only made the motion for you feel comfortable in half the time okay so so are you both resending your okay okay thank you I appreciate that Council substantive changes it's gonna have to go over again any well I'm probably not gonna if I may not approve it well she she what the ordinance yeah she wants to make changes if they're substantial it's not going to pass big deal if we wait another well we could always you could always pass that one we could sit down and we could go over those changes and if you don't want to pass it you don't pass it we have to do it all over again anyway we're GNA Happ support have to be reintroduced next year right okayed year the council want I mean I sat in a lot of the classes at the various uh conven so that's why I was a little concerned because a lot of the protections that they tell you you need to take I was a little concerned things that we're getting pulled out and I get it where it's coming from the commissioner but yet it's kind of again conflicting information on one hand you you go to a seminar and they're telling you to make sure you have X Y and Z in and then and then they're telling you to take it out fine but but understand that like it's not just like oh there's certain things we want to keep and change if the whole purpose is to keep the designation no I get that yeah if they say that that one change disa you from designation there's no point making anything I'm willing to do the work to look at it to make sure it's right okay so I move back for introduction on uh first reading back okay hold on I gotta erase sorry initials now okay and I apologize Mr smdo my focus today was with this with this is part of what we're doing from business so we could sit down next week and and we'll go over it that's all okay great all right councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G Michael councilwoman barpa councilwoman Williams yes okay thank you 2884 d24 an ordinance amending certain terms in chapter 5 Section 35 of the revised General ordinances of the township of West Orange I'll make a motion second okay councilwoman celino oh yes councilwoman gber Michael this is for 2083 right4 2884 to introduce on first reading let me look at [Music] my this one I is okay um no we have to make amendments to this I mean uh Stephen was here tonight so if we vote on it then do we make the Amendments or do we make the Amendments first and then on it oh you could add to it you could add to the Amendments that Stephen said tonight hold on let me take a look yes it was minor in the language I don't I don't think it was a subsi of chance it was just they were minor the language I don't think there's anything in here okay about the door signs I think that's understand that but there were in here very specific edits that he mentioned tonight that was the notifying like having the public all public businesses to comply and I don't think that's in also the language of the W he said the list should not be broken up and they should be the same in theory the first list has gender but not sex the second list has sex and not gender this is how it should read based on the basis of SL basis of age sex sexual orientation gender identity gender expression race Creed religion or national origin it should be a single list the or should come before the last category yeah I think he Chang identity from sexual orientation unless we want to ask him to send us an email with the I think that would make sense let's table let's table this then or let's just wait till January then I mean what's it you know this has to get done wait to January we don't have new C you don't know that you can't make assumptions you can't sit there make assumptions sweetheart sweetheart I said what I said all right all right it's getting late it's getting late and that's why you didn't get elected okay two okay baby again listen listen listen let's be nice let's be nice we're the nicest all hang out we all know we can all let it I think that the proper thing to do with this if unless you can make the revisions that I just seriously the only change going from and to or or what he made several recommendations in in his comments he really did he did he did and I think one was gender identity from sexual orientation language it was yeah so let's wait till the next Council discusses it yeah all right so you want to table it for this evening I think that would make sense okay I will reach out to him tomorrow and ask him to have it in writing in an email to Legal this and then you know I don't think it's anybody thing anybody okay so make a motion for 2884 I make a motion to take to table 2884 I'll second it right hold on I got to the proper Visions are made and we're gonna get mad cler a new eras B what what I said it used to be this big it now we know what to get you for Christmas again and that was a long time ago pretty simple but I don't okay let me take the vote to table councilwoman celino councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman councilwoman William yes all right we got one one more 2 88524 an ordinance granting renewal of Municipal consent Comcast of New Jersey to construct connect operate and maintain a cable television and communication system in the municipality of West Orange is there a motion to introduce on I have questions on this one so I'm gonna make the motion okay is there a second well can we we got to get a second second okay understand procedure yet okay okay okay let go ahead councilwoman make your statement don't worry yes um so I have a question the 2% the previous company that we contracted with did we have a similar um deal with the 2% microphone sir basically any table company that wants to operate so they have to go apply um as you recall there was one from whatever contct came in so it's not a negotiated thing is break that part what the franch who determines the language of the contract it's not a contract oh well who determines language of what they can do all that we're doing is they're going to um the uh Board of Public Utilities to get approval to operate to keep their franchise license and they just need to it's like it's like the whether or not the municip the municipality objects or not that's basically what um did they project what their gross revenues are they tell you what their gross revenues are for the year you you have the same information I was here's I do have an issue under construction requirements where it says removal are trimming of trees I don't think they she that they should be able to exercise their right and privilege to just remove any tree they want I think we should remove the word removal and I think that that they should follow our tree ordinance because that's important if that's the case they can go and remove any trees they want within their rights the way it's written is this for Comcast so normally in other municipalities I'm not suggesting we do anything um you know different but in most municipalities your service providers Comcast PSC and state um they usually notify the the the public they don't necessarily I I I I just have a challenge because they're they're they're an entity providing service they're not coming in intentionally to violate any of our ordinances but if Comcast needs to remove a tree do they have to go through the same per process as any other company is it a notification is it a removal is it an application what what's the normal process I don't believe it I don't believe it is because it's a utility but because they do a lot of tree trimming when they do the tree trimming along the they don't come in notify us right I don't believe well they don't they they do notify us I don't know if they get a permit right okay so notification is one thing but permitting because our you know um our our tree expert gets U he he notifies he goes down he looks at it he sees what they're doing he watches it but I don't believe he they need a permit to do that but but they we are notified I I would just be a little concerned in having um one of our utilities to have to go through we'll confirm it to make I'm pretty sure that's the process that they just they have the right because of the right away right um they have to deal with like you know where I live there's an easement behind an easement pole they just coming yeah behind my house it's an easement service has make mess issue is that's not stated in this and once we pass this and pass it on second reading in the next meeting we can't make changes so if we can make the edits in there now to protect us it literally says removal or trim Tre trees trimming of trees enduring the exercise of its rights and privileges under this franchise the company shall have the authority right they can do whatever they want to do it and I think that we need to protect ourselves and I don't think that should they should be able to move that's a vpu I don't know if that's a BPU because they're consider utility right like say we want not asking you yeah they're not required to like psng doesn't have to get perit to mot trees no they just do it because it cause a fire how is the feed transform probably the same I think it's under State telecommunication so it's not negotiable no okay and then it's great that we're getting $100,000 extra the $75,000 one time Grant and then additional 25,000 but broken up over 10 years it's 10,000 a year um where does that money go towards have you guys determined is everything go it's a general fund it's specific section and the revenue for cable franchise fees okay great and um that's all the questions all right you're good anybody else move to adopt this on first I'm getting there councilwoman we have discussion for first no we have discussion disc discussion now any any other question one more question actually that I someone asked me to ask Mr moon this is for you when this was negotiated with them um so I want be wasn't a negotiation okay thank you for they present they came here presented us this is the form they came in person okay but did did you go back to them and say oh it's great they we're getting 100,000 over 10 years it's 10,000 a year can we get more this is what they do with towns years ago you're right that's how it went they came here and they negotiated with the township to be the Sole Provider to your residents now they go to the state to do it okay and it's all prescribed what the percentages are the 2% get back yeah there is no negotiation okay it's basically just a letter of support saying yeah great they can come here that's fine because they're going to come here anyway okay all right thank you so much anybody anybody else question questions thank you madam clerk councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman SCPA councilwoman Williams yes okay the motion carries okay we haveing matters now we took care of uh what we needed to take care of under these two items um anybody else have anything from pending that at this late evening I uh wanted us to vote wanted to make a motion only through support to put the resolution that Stephen sent us regarding the single occupy restrooms on the next meeting so we can vote for that so I'm not uh against that but I want to do my homework on it is it an ordinance yeah okay I thought it was a I thought it was a resolution no okay yeah oh yeah that's okay next year thank you Mr Moon and and I have uh Miss BRS doing some due diligence with the business owners so I don't think it's gonna be an issue but we just want to V that is there anything else no anybody anybody else okay make a motion to close out the meeting favor I any opposed all right the uh meeting thank you West Orange and everyone have a a great Thanksgiving Thanksgiving everybody