##VIDEO ID:bo9R39cj5nw## a [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] good evening West Orange this is public information officer Joe Fagan uh we are at the township Council budget workshop with the regularly scheduled Township council meeting to follow at this time I'd like to turn the floor over to council president uh rer thank you Mr Fagan good evening West Orange good evening colleagues uh Administration officials and all that are in attendance in the gallery and joining us virtually uh thank you for joining us for our August 6 budget Workshop uh we're going to get started right away Madam clerk thank you council president this is to inform the general public that this Workshop is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open Public's meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the notice for this Workshop was emailed to the West Orange Chronicle and the Star Ledger on August 1st 2024 councilwoman celino presid councilwoman gabber Michael present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams has stepped away but she is here council president Rutherford here thank you uh do we have to do the P Pledge of Allegiance uh I was going to save that for the public meeting H is that right okay um all right that's standard all right so uh we are going to get into uh what I hope is our last uh back and forth over the budget [Music] um I have uh sent out some recommendations I don't I didn't receive any from anyone else I don't know um what folks are thinking um but I'm happy to open the floor to my colleagues to discuss what edits changes adjustments uh reductions increases uh to the budget uh they may have we've we've heard from every department head uh I believe um or at least uh all of them that we're going to hear from uh and assuming we can come to agreement tonight we will be ready to adopt the budget in just a few moments uh so to my colleagues that have any of you any um questions comments feedback on uh adjustments you'd like to make amendments you'd like to make uh to the budget I see two grabbing microphones three we're waitting for Madam clerk got it um I'm going to ask the clerk um and just remind her when she comes back in to email to me whatever she provides in hard copy uh to the rest of the council and just so those that are joining us virtually and those in the gallery understand I have um I don't have the best Wi-Fi so if I drop um I will try to log back in as as quickly as possible um I may be able to join by telephone if needed uh but just want to prepare you I've had trouble with Wi-Fi and cell service your guys was it the members of the public who may be listening in nothing is wrong with your audio feed we are just taking a momentary pause while a few things are getting together here and for your benefit council president it is uh in a torrential downpour right now and there are uh only a few people here in council chambers uh thank you Mr Fagan H I'm looking for a pen which is why I stepped away from my zoom yes I read Madam clerk are you ready can hear you she's handing out pamphlet and she's returning to her seat now got it so okay I I remember what it is okay Madame clerk uh please forward to me by email whatever you uh share in hard copy tonight uh in case I don't have it as well okay all I shared was your list ah okay yeah and council president I had asked her did everyone receive uh everyone was copied on the email from Mr gross in regards I had asked him a question oh sorry sorry uh of one uh what would 1% increase to the budget be I wanted to know um it I think it's represents $659,000 36 yeah um $36 a year and if we we decided to stay at um uh uh version one of the Garbage Contract to leave everything a status quo and that was costing 60,000 uh a month for um four months so that's $40,000 increase so right out of the gate if we um do not make any reductions in this budget I just want my colleagues to have an understanding uh right now of where we left the last time without making any increases it' be $240,000 increase for this year if we don't make any reductions out of the current budget so I just wanted to share that information before we got started so we had some kind of guideline that if we wanted to add additional cost right then and there it's 240,000 anything else um I would not recommend going up to the 1% or the um 659 th000 but if we do that's another $360 something, $770,000 um so just a few guidelines to to to work with as we're making recommendations of what we want to increase or decrease within this bu budget thank you thank you councilwoman I'm sorry did someone councilwoman Scara yeah um I did receive it too and I would like us to see if we can get down to the 2% I don't think we should have really um support any additional spending I would like us to see to cut so that we could get down to the 2% that you know the public does EXP effect and I would like us to review all of our consultant contracts and cut anything that is not absolutely necessary I think that might be a good place to start thank you councilwoman Scarpa um you know so to both of your points uh a 1% change up or down in the budget represents $659,900 we are starting as councilwoman castelino um just mentioned with uh a $240,000 increase because so far we have chosen option one on the G Garbage Contract that represents a 36 uh percent increase 364 to be exact um uh increase above what the mayor has already proposed which was a 2.47% increase if we made no adjustments to the budget that would mean a proposed tax increase of 2.83% um to Residents now I have uh made some recommendations uh where I think some Cuts can come in councilwoman Scarpa just made some as well uh I'm not sure that we can do that work and we had this conversation earlier today I'm not sure that we can do the work to analyze all of the consultant contracts uh actually I'm sure we can't do the work to analyze all of the consultant contracts before 6:30 T tonight however I do think that is a great exercise to go through and would support um encouraging each department uh or to to go through that uh exercise to let us know how much each department is spending in Consultants uh and how um we could look to get off of the need or the dependence on consultants and and rely more on Township employees that said because I am on Zoom um if you guys just speak it'll be a little bit difficult for me to know I can't always tell who is speaking so if you don't mind please just raise a hand so I can identify who wants uh the microphone next I see councilwoman Williams hand up I believe uh councilwoman Williams thank you council president I am curious because all of our employment contracts for our vendors have already been approved um and those are our annual agreements so my inquiry would be in reviewing those contracts are we talking specifically about contracts that have an hourly wage attached to it because if not um that's a cumbersome task our staff is already over worked and I'm wondering who would uh be available to to look at that information from our Administration or staff well I think councilwoman Scarpa and I'll let her answer for herself but I think what she is is uh trying to express to us which I I think is a a good exercise to go through uh is an approach to getting off of the Reliance on consultants and relying more on uh Town town hall employees uh I will allow her to further elaborate on when and how uh how long it would take or what the expectation is the amount of time to take to do that kind of work uh and so I'll give her the microphone next to to respond to your question councilwoman Williams and then councilwoman celino will get the mic yeah I mean I agree it needs to be done it needs to be done as soon as possible we do have contracts where people are hourly and we do not have to spend all of the money if not necessary and so I just would like a full review before I can vote for this just to be clear before I go to councilwoman calino before you can vote for the budget that is presented yeah because I'd like to get it down to 2% well we may be able to get it down to 2% without going through that exercise we yeah but we still do have Consultants that are hourly and we don't need to continue to use them if it's not absolutely necessary and I think there are some savings there may be but it will will require a process to determine that is not something that can be done in 35 minutes or 40 minutes councilwoman castelino and then Mr smdo if you wouldn't mind opining on how long what kind of work that would be for our town hall employees thank you council president and I just wanted to add uh to uh just introduced to the public council president um if you're not aware uh our interim uh CFO is here Mr Vincent wo and I just did not know if we want to introduce him to the public at this time and also I would expect I know Mr smal is ready to to speak um but if he you know has any input as well uh I would love to hear from tonight uh too uh but if we could have a brief introduction for the Public's sake um I I appreciate it thank you council president thank you councilwoman uh yes certainly I I wasn't sure actually he looked a lot like Mr K from behind I wasn't sure who that was over there uh but Mr smdo if you don't mind please introduce our inum CFO uh and then you know provide whatever your color is for this particular part of the conversation and then Mr Bono if you don't mind please opine as well so this is Mr Vincent Bono he is our interim ba um as the public knows I I'm sorry I'm sorry this is a long day CFO he's our interm CFO Chief Financial Officer um and Mr brono was selected um through our our process uh he was he was uh selected or approved by this council at our last meeting he is the interim CFO until Mr uh till our our permanent appointment starts which we antici ipate hopefully sometime in and around September 16th and at that point in time um to the councilwoman's question about uh vendors such as Mr buano um we would utilize him until uh Mr the the new CFO is comfortable in that position and that's what we hired him for Mr Bono has been doing this for 30 some odd years um he is he he is a excellent candidate for us um and his his background in education is uh is is is terrific up upen correct Warton MBA so he he comes to us he's highly recommended highly uh recognized in the industry and we're glad to have him so without that uh any further Ado Mr bro if you'd like to add anything I think you got pretty much everything I'd like to thank you all for the opportunity to work with you um and my role um prior role I had worked with the staff here and they were a terrific group of people to work with um and I hope we can make the transition as smooth as possible and make the uh new CFOs um uh uh roll um getting off the ground as smooth as possible and council president to your qu to follow up on councilwoman scarpa's um request about the vendors a lot of our vendors have been hired um through the years and including this year because we have Through The Years lost staff and we still have a lot of requirements so when we um contract with a vendor it's for a need not a want um it's it we need them because there are certain roles as we you know we see right now with the finance department in the in their transition we need assistance not only from Mr brono but we also need it from two other groups that were just recently um enacted by this this body at the last meeting um and we do that on a need basis every year so to say that if we to cut it for this year I don't know if that'd be fair to to our employees and to the residents for this year it doesn't mean that one we can start analyzing and looking at the data from how much we have and and I know that in our pre previous uh budget meetings here we talked about increasing the staff next year but that to just to do that t tonight I would caution you that we need a lot of these these people we have that you obviously have to make that decision based on what you feel is right but I could tell you that all of our vendors right now are based on a need I understand we do need most of them but there are some that are on an hourly basis that are not essential most most of our are to see that information which on if you we don't have to get into mrdo one second just for the cor let um and be especially since I'm not there um my colleagues please allow me to recognize you before we begin the back and forth and and we do have a meeting in 35 minutes so I I would encourage us to be as expeditious as possible Mr chaldo so what I was saying is that um we can why don't we meet offline you can ask me who you want specifically what you're looking for I don't know I'd like to un over I know there's some that are contractual I'll pull all that information and you and I can we can have a separate meeting to discuss that okay sorry councilwoman calino thank you councilwoman okay and again we're doing work at the 12th hour and we have to get a budget pass we already have a third quarter estimated tax bill out there and I hear you councilwoman um I mean what are you know if we're going to take time to do that I mean what are where are we at with getting this budget approved we don't approve it no ma'am no ma'am Council Celina we are not going to wait to vote on this budget she may not vote for it I understand her principal position but we are are going to vote I I I going to do everything I can to make sure that we vote on adopting this budget in our regular meeting which starts in 34 minutes okay thank you council president right y all right so um I I think I I will go first since I submitted uh some recommended changes uh you guys each have uh a copy of them there they're also in your inbox uh and for those that are joining us virtually or we review this later I am in a polo shirt today because I am on vacation so um I certainly don't want to be in this meeting and definitely want to get this done as quickly as possible Mr schalo council president just to let you know I just forwarded you an email from um Miss Reynolds in regards to your your recommendations with the legal department so I just wanted to to let you know that I did send that what is what has been paid to date and what has been encumbered so far for both those line items I just wanted to advise you that that was uh just provided to you about 5 10 minutes ago so if you want to may put on the record for the public and our edification as well please okay so it went into my spam and Council please if you don't mind for expediency let me acknowledge you before uh you start speaking okay so uh the council president's recommendation for the adjustments for the reduced litigation General uh to level of 2023 level $150 he recommended 393 30933 to be um considered as a savings and so far that line item this year so far paid to date is $178,500 6766 um and then the reduced litigation labor to 2023 level of 125,000 it is recommended it's it's removed down to 197 34644 currently the PID to date is 68,5 73557 with an encumbered balance of 9557 428 u in that email not only is it the cover letter that Miss Reynold sent to me but also it has a breakout in in that um of the the line items that what everything was expected on so you can take a look at that okay uh I don't have that in my inbox but thank you I will look for it um it's not in there yet not in my spam either yeah but certainly we'll continue trying to refresh um and it came from Paula it came from me I miss miss marold was the one who to me and I and I just forwarded to you a few minutes ago actually uh um Miss Carnaval actually has it right now on her phone it just came maybe it may just be taking a little while to get to you but she did receive yeah I did for I have it I have it you do he has it oh yeah okay yep I have it it's uh it's here okay so I understand that um let let let's I know that you guys are eager to start this bickering around the legal fees we're not going to bicker all right no I'm I'm I'm just responding to your questions before I just want to make sure you knew you had it that's all it was not for thank you sir I appreciate that um I made I made that recommendation but I think for expediency let's just go through uh that is the second item on the list and we can start at the beginnings uh since this is the the only uh list that we have um I recommended with the Department of Public Works uh colleagues that of the nine open uh truck driver positions the new truck driver positions that we eliminate three of them and look to potentially hire them next year or in following year where the budget will allow it um that would save us $92,900 60 anyone want to comment on that please if you do raise your hand count councilwoman castelino followed by councilwoman's Williams so just going back looking at my notes for um the conversation we had with our DPW uh director I don't feel comfortable with that um if administration had a conversation and wants to delay the new superintendent Because by the time they get up and hired I'm okay with this this this second line at uh at reducing at the 8,141 but again I want to hear from Mr smarald I assume all these items were vetted out today for our ratification okay great so Council Council woman councilwoman Williams thank you council president um regarding the Department of Public Works I too was concerned when I saw the list come into our inbox uh earlier this morning and then this afternoon um as it was also forwarded by Mr moraldo um I took the liberty of speaking to director Reynolds um because again adjusting their budgets and knowing that our departments work at a skeleton level um at this time I did not want to make any adjustments without understanding how it would directly impact their workability U Mr Reynolds director Reynolds is okay um with the elimination of these three open truck driver positions and that is because two of his employees have already expressed interest in getting their CDL license um so that will be an internal opportunity uh for mobilization and Improvement and taking um another opportunity within our Township as far as the delay of the new superintendent of DPW is concerned he is also in agreement um with that delay um and then Mr smdo I think if I'm not mistaken also met with him directly and so he can also further update um any additional information from my conversation thank you council president you're welcome councilwoman I I too spoke with Mr Reynolds Mr moraldo um you know it we only have 27 minutes before our meetings that's fine if if you spoke to him anything that he said to councilwoman Williams or yourself is probably the same conversation so if you want to um memorialize your conversation I'm fine with that thank you Mr moraldo yes Mr Reynolds is fine with these he recognizes that um he won't get everything you asked for uh as I would expect any uh leader of any Department would um but he certainly has a plan to hire the six and understands that uh we can revisit this uh next year uh certainly with regard to the superintendent as well um so I offer a an amendment are you raising your hand Council councilwoman Williams I am uh please go ahead before your Amendment Madam clerk would you please just make a running tally of where we are financially with the additions and the reductions so that we can try and stay within our Benchmark from the 659 we've already added the 200,000 for the remainder of the year for the Garbage Contract wait s the inm that cler yeah think take the notes yeah well it goes to the minutes as well correct no yeah I I'm not well it's recording whoever whoever is taking the notes I set the inm CF thank so that when we get to the end of our amendments we have a number that we can look at and understand where we are thank you I could ask um we're starting from the top and working our way down or have we we are Tru drivers are out well wait wait wait wait wait we're gonna have to vote on the amendment first understood so we're we are we have established that we are at 6 $59,000 is the number for every percent increase we have already increased 250 something for the remainder can we get that number it's it's 240,000 240 thank you for the Gage pleas let me run the meeting please let me run the meeting please well if I can ask my question is I just want to keep it running tally sir that's all I'm asking all right thank you very much councilwoman you're welcome I offer a motion to amend the mayor's proposed budget to uh well I think we'll do them one at a time eliminate three of the nine open truck driver positions do I have a second second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gmel councilwoman councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes thank you I offer a motion to uh remove from the current budget the new superintendent of DPW uh Revisited at a future date do I have a second second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber councilwoman Scarpa councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes thank you um we are certainly not going to agree over adjustments to the legal budget uh given the current lawsuit trying to force us to have to award a contract uh to the township attorney's firm there's literally no way the five of us are going to agree on that if others would like to offer recommendations you feel free to do so I am going to offer mine uh but I will uh listen to councilwoman celino first councilwoman thank you council president so yes so my question today uh that I call into Mr smdo I'm not sure what could be said uh that's not in closed session in regards to what cases are out there and where they're at and and how these estimates were uh were calculated so with that all being said looking at the numbers that we have here I I am willing to make some reduction uh not to the level where you want to be that we already spent about I'm not the best mathematician but but uh two got 240 on the the first one you have 393 we're already at 240 so I don't know where where we want to end up on that I would not go the whole uh go go to 393 um and then the second one with the labors at 68 we spent so far I mean I'm not sure where we're at also with um our negotiations with our our unions I'm not sure where we're at them how much of that will be done in this budget but we have to be mindful of that uh so yeah so I I'm willing to reduce but not to the the the level that you have here do you have a recommendation councilor I I'm going to defer that to Mr smarald because I don't know what's on the table without having a thoughtful conversation and close sessions about litigation that's on the table I I don't feel comfortable making the recommendation I totally understand councilwoman um what Mr gross said unless what he said was uh inaccurate in any way shape or form what Mr gross said uh in our budget workshops both this year and the prior three years is that if the council cuts a line item somewhere and it's below what he needs he'll have to find a way to pull it from somewhere else um I am comfortable with that I am I am um appalled at how much we spend on legal fees I've heard other folks justify it it's not justifiable to me um so if you'd like to to reduce it to a a particular number uh and we're going to go in order uh the first line on that is reduce litigation General to the 20123 level of 150,000 uh from the 543 plus th000 uh that was uh recommended in the budget if there's a number above 150 that you uh would feel comfortable with uh please express that now if not uh I'm going to offer that motion yes ma'am uh councilwoman celino I councilman Williams had her hand off first I don't want to well I I didn't see it I just saw yours so we'll call on her next uh I I would again I don't know I would say I um it's five something now we already spent 240 it's August I would say 350 for this line I hear your 35050 yeah go go to instead of the level 350 I would I would at 150 I would leave it at 350 councilwoman Williams uh thank you I can also agree that 350 is an acceptable number given what we've already expended to date and I'm not understanding how we can reduce line item when we've already approved um changes to different line items for the budget because we don't have a budget that's been approved and how can we reduce to what's already been spent or Beyond what's already been spent that doesn't make much budgetary sense to me understood councilwoman uh uh Scara or gbra Michael would you like to L in before I call on Mr I saw I saw his hand Council Mr B I I saw his hand do you want to weigh in before I call on him no go ahead let him gbra Michaels hand is up you guys got to wait for me I'm not in person so it's a little harder councilman gber Michael did you have your hand up yes um I'm comfortable with the 150 maybe even going up to 200 but no more than that I mean the past several years it's always been budget at 150 so clearly they are finding money somewhere I mean we've increased fees we've increased the sewer fee there is an excess I just I don't feel comfortable at three I think 350 is too high thank you Council better thank you councilwoman Mr Bono um just to describe the budget process the idea behind the budget process is a budget is introduced through whatever means um the budget gets introduced um that's somebody maybe a committee maybe the the um staff's idea of what the budget should be um the next step is the public hearing which is tonight at which point um all the governing body any residents would speak about it and those amendments would be considered um those amendments can be accepted they can be rejected um and based on the feeling of the governing body and CFO saying yes these are things you can do um you could vote on the budget tonight so the the process is that this is the time if you don't like the way the introduced budget is to do the amendment thank you sir um councilwoman Williams thank you um in doing those amendments when we've already spent in excess of what the reduction is recommended how can you if we've already spent that amount then how can you reduce beyond what has already been expected you cannot reduce Beyond what's been spent okay and so can we repeat what's been expended today Mr smor Aldo to date um expended was $178,500 which comes out to $245 332 $245,300 and so many cents thank you so that was for that was for the that liation line item okay yeah not labor right so 245 325 and how much 245 325 was the total between paid and encumbered for for General how much for labor 4 407 in total for for both line items so 407 minus 407,000 even no no that's rounded so 4 47,000 spent year to dat so about 161 6754 labor has been spent is that right 16439 for labor 16439 y okay um any other questions before we entertain motions well there was a motion um for it to be reduced to 350 and I'm I'm happy to second that motion and now just litigation general for the first one for the first line item okay yeah call the vote Madam clerk okay councilwoman celino H yes councilwoman gber Michael no councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford no the motion carries thank you thank you I'm sorry one more time what is the reduction three 350,000 reduce it okay currently the budget in the introduced budget is 865,000 right um what we need to do is amend it to uh how much 350 350 which is below the 407 we've already spent no no this is General this is not labor for the general line it's just a first line I it's just for the first line 245 325 this is for yeah this is the 543 will now be reduced to 350 is uh there's one other thing to consider uh when the state looks at this last year we spent 86,000 um if the number is below 86,000 there's a high possibility the state will question that number I'm happy to respond to the state's question that's good yeah more a second so well we're we're already at 164 so we need to go up like 225 because I don't want them3 109 I'm good with look at it quarterly let's look at it quarterly guys let's break it up quarterly we're already 165 that means for the three months they've spent $50,000 $53,000 give them at least $50,000 for the fourth quarter that's only fair expected this entire thing isn't fair councilwoman to do the primary Ur the primary firm doing this work does not have a contract and has not had one since December 20122 so none of this is fair all right let's just start there now moving on we're at uh labor my recommendation was reduce it to the 2023 level the uh purchasing department has said that they've already spent 100 spent or encumbered 164,384 66 no it's 160 it's 164 309 so I I'm I have for a motion I heard 66 76685 there were two figures just for clarity there was a portion that was spent already and a portion that we essentially have already gotten the service have those numbers put together are $164,300 n Council councilwoman Williams um I'd like to offer a motion to amend the reduction for the litigation labor line item to $225,000 a second that uh councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford sure yes did you say sure yes uh labor so now is going to be at 2:25 yes uh and what was the budgeted item what was the budgeted number again one 97 34644 the mayor's recommendation council president was 322 34644 and it was year the year to change was 197 346 yeah but we changed it to 225 so right so we have a 97,3 4644 savings there all right thank you I was just trying to get the numbers for myself so just so that we're clear and I don't know can you guys hear me okay yes we can all right because I can't see anything anymore um I cannot see anything at all Mr Fagan if you can address that it may be me but I there's nothing on my screen other than myself all right um municipal prosecutor was the third line under legal department President we had someone inadvertently knock a plug out and I'm fixing it it she'll be restored momentarily thank you sir uh for the municipal prosecutor we had uh 40 uh $3,561 51 recommended by the mayor I offer a motion to reduce that line item 35,000 I have a question council president it's councilman G Michael can we do that if there's already contracts in place this year for the amount I just looked at the email I received it did not address the municipal prosecutor my assumption is that that one does not have an issue but uh Mr smdo if you can uh address the councilwoman's concern is there just um I'm looking for the line item that's in the mayor's budget right now I apologize I didn't get that answer for you I'm trying public defender is I believe that's a a a contract of we awarded already yeah municipal court officer judge I I'm sorry sir I'm just trying to find it for you but I believe that's a contract we already have with the um because this is a professional services and which was awarded so um I so was my understanding that the municipal prosecutor got paid um per case is that not the case I don't think so I don't think so I I don't believe so but um I'd have to double check that one for you I I apologize and I don't see it right now here on the on the U I'm looking in the budget right now and I don't see it all right no worries it's it's it's uh We've we've done the heavy lifting on on these that's a $8,000 difference we can figure that out between now and um the 6:30 meeting it's 6:21 now um so I'm happy to to move right along okay yeah I'm not comfortable with the information we have for that one council president okay um is contract we voted on it I'm not POS we vote on the contract but I all right so Mr smdo can you request for us between now and the next meeting if it's possible or as soon as possible thereafter uh how we are paying our municipal prosecutor okay I'm going to try and look to see if our previous meetings that I can located if it was on the uh January meeting thank you and I asked months ago uh Mr Jenaro to clarify for us if um you had to be designated a municipal prosecutor in order to prosecute certain matters in town I have not yet gotten a response um I'm going to ask that on the record in the next meeting uh because part of the this these payments are going to uh firm a firm that is not uh designated a municipal prosecutor Mr Mr smeraldo if you could get that information for us that would be helpful okay next one is support for boards and commissions uh my my recommendation was to reduce the Main Street contribution to the 2023 level uh which would save us $2,100 councilwoman celino yeah thank you thank you council president um so miss bril is here um your Note is that um because that was spent last year but we're a little puzzled because they they did uh they did get paid the whole 40,000 and and it was spent because it's for particular services and it's up to you I know we don't have much time if you want her to say a few words if not I'm well so one of the two things happen right either Mr gross provided to us information that was not accurate because we're getting this now after 2023 closed well after 2023 closed so yeah it's my understanding that what was spent for the full year of 2023 was $ 38,7 N9 is is that not accurate Miss bril yeah I explain um so it looks like accounting has put two line items for support the first line item that has the 38709 is really $2,100 short the next line item they paid us 267 which is $700 more so the net is $500 that they should have paid us we got a check for 655809 oh we got a check for 6549 we should have been paid 65809 so the real difference on the two line items and Mr Bono can explain this maybe better as a difference of $500 that's still Ed the 23 budget understood Miss BR I'm willing to accept uh your explanation Mr Bono we don't we don't have to go any further uh we can continue moving right along unless my colleagues want to weigh in no move along all right um next item is General Health Services um reduce EIG inspections to $11,000 which is a more than was actually spent in 2023 um is there are there any questions or concerns on that yeah Mr fanino is here yeah Mr fanino is here and I spoke to him directly as well regarding theed councilwoman councilwoman Please Mr fanino Union Council president yes um with regards to the ecigarette inspections um it's it's actually spelled out pretty clearly in the ordinance that all licensing fees and fines um go back to the health department uh fund for enforcement so moving that money around we collect the license fee it's $2,000 or licens that money comes back to the health department budget and funds the inspectors going out to do inspections to do the enforcement um for this ordinance so I just want to point that out I I don't think that's something that you can move around thank you Mr fun you know let me follow that with a question that if you're charging a $2,000 is that per um uh you know line uh business that offers those products correct that's the license fee per per business per year so and based on what you just said that money goes to the health department to pay for the inspections inspections and uh you know materials like um education yeah educational materials um signage things like that there so there's an operating budget line item and then there's a a salary line item so the money offsets the salaries no it pays for the inspections they're done outside of the inspector's normal workday so according to the budget it was just a few hundred were spent last year can you explain to me why that is the case yes council president I am Bare Bones I have one inspector right now so this this is really suffering um and and I I understand and I guess we'll get to it in a few minutes um I have one inspector and one part-time two days a week doing the work of three registered Environmental Health Specialists we are at Bare Bones so are you expecting to do more inspections in 2020 in in 2024 or have you done more inspections in 2024 I'm I'm hoping to to do more if I get more people right so we're in August now even if you were to hire someone start that process today how and and obviously it can't happen today but if you were to hire someone today or you know begin the hiring process identify someone who is willing to take that job how long would it take to get them working to do the inspections to get them actually on boarded and being an employee of the Town within a month all right and so and we're not doing it today so best case scenario is midt if everything went perfectly so that's three months of the year that you would have to worry about or four months you know three and a half months of the year is that not right corre right so we're looking at fees that are paid and inspections that are not being done I I I was just pointing out council president the the what's in the ordinance um I'm less concerned with the uh the ecigarette um I'm more concerned with the other recommend recommendations that you're making you know for cutting the health department all right well we're right we're right now just talking about the east cigarettes it it if we were to reduce that to $1,000 would that change the volume of inspections done for ecigarettes uh or businesses that sell ecigarettes in West Orange yes we have 16 places right now that need to be inspected right but we don't have the inspectors yeah go ahead Mr fono no no I'm saying we have one inspector I I you know have to get it done by the end of the year at least the 16 places that you know that doesn't include trying to find other places that are selling without a license so in 2023 and I don't I'm not looking at the number but the number was in the few hundreds of dollars that was spent for the entire year 2023 you had the same number of inspectors last year as you have this year if you were to hire another inspector it wouldn't happen in at least until mid-september and that's a best case scenario so we're looking at three months worth of having an additional higher and we didn't spend all the money last year I'm I don't understand well the so so the license fee is $2,000 so if you're going to give me $1,000 to to do 16 inspections that's not going to work you had you had 5,400 to do 16 inspections last year and you spent like 700 of it unless it's somewhere else in the budget that I'm not seeing i' I'd have to look council president I I'm not certain but and I I don't know off the top of my head the number of inspections that were done last year it's possible maybe they were you know it was paid out of a different line but it it should have been paid out of the East cigarette it's its own cost center so when we when an inspector goes out and does these inspections it's paid out of that cost center in the budget well Mr fanino that would certainly not be um your fault or responsibility but the way it's written on the budget we budgeted 5,400 last year we spent like 700 of it I'm if if we've gone through eight months of the year with the same number of inspectors the same number of businesses I don't understand why we would need more money this year than we spent last year even if we hired someone new and if we did what would that volume be would it be double would it be instead of 700 would it be500 would it I mean help me understand I'm not trying to hurt the health department I'm just trying to make a a smart decision here no I understand um honestly I I really I don't know without looking at the full picture um really what I the point I'm trying to make here was was what's in the ordinance so I I'm just saying I don't know that you can just eliminate that money because it's the money is collected for the license fee and then is put into the budget so I'm not sure I mean but if it's 2,000 per business there's 16 businesses that's 32,000 correct and we spent 700 and we budgeted 5400 councilwoman celino yeah yeah so council president um it's 6:32 I I know where you're at you may not notice and we have a room full of uh of uh Mustang Mustangs here so I would I just want to recommend at this time can we table this till later in the evening when we get to the ordinance to finish the conversation I am happy to table it I want to thank Mr Fagan for reminding me uh I did lose track of time I want to thank you as well councilwoman castelino uh we will pick up with General Health Services when we get to that part of the agenda in our regular business meeting uh Mr fono are you able to stick around for that sure thank you very much sir thank you counc thank you council president thank you councilwoman uh at this time we're I'm going to entertain a motion to uh close this budget workshop and move into our should we recess it we're not going to adjourn it because we okay all in favor I it is recess motion carries thank you madam clerk all right we can switch gears and get into the regular business hold on one second yep it's gonna take me a minute toing gears okay this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section 5 of the open public meetings act chapter 231 Public Law 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castelino present councilwoman gber Michel present councilwoman Scarpa present councilwoman Williams president council president Rutherford here thank you madam clerk um we have and and you guys can see them I can't uh we have the West Orange pal 14 and under Mustangs Navy girls flag football team is that right yeah and they're going to be acknowledged and uh celebrated tonight so um I don't know who is going to handle that but whoever it's mayor had asked me council president if you don't mind I don't mind thank you welcome Mustangs great great season that you had uh very excited to always be able to give uh a recognition to outstanding palal program especially being a for former palal parent uh this year the palal um for those of you that don't know the palal has been providing quality youth programming for since the 1960s almost 60 years now if not over 60 years I see Miss merkland J shaking her head yes um they talk about um they emphasize sportsmanship citizenship and just great great uh role models for academic performance as well so we want to thank our athletes for coming out this evening and of course we always have to thank our parents because without our parents our athletes would not get to to practices and to the games and for all that support for their families so thank you all for coming out the West Orange PL 14U Mustangs Navy team won the first ever New Jersey Suburban Youth Football League girls flag football championship on June 8th 2024 this is quite an accomplishment during this inaugural season the 14U Mustangs Navy team went undefeated 80 allowing only 16 points to be scored on them the entire season they come on folks let's Clap That is Jak they swore at least 12 points every game and led the league in touchdowns heading into the playoffs as a number one seed they defeated Bloomfield 180 in the champion game so all right Ladi the mayor and West Orange Township Council proud to recognize and congratulate the 14 you Mustangs Navy girls flag football team on their excellent sportsmanship and wishes them continued success in the future now I'd like to invite our coaches up Dominic uh head coach Dominic D Pasqual and defense coordinator Patrick Johnson we want to than we always appreciate our coaches for coming out and for volunteering their time to uh the sports of and just the number of hours I know you put in your full-time day jobs and to put uh the time into the program we we appreciate it so much thank you thank you and I'll do the honors pull your team up a few words go right ahead okay sure sure uh just like councilwoman C said it was a historic season for us being the first ever New Jersey Suburban Youth Football League girls flag uh Champions uh the girls put in all the work this past season for three months and to do something like that undefeated first year playing a sport in this very fast growing sport that we have going on uh it's just an amazing accomplishment for them and that just shows their dedication and hard work the last three months uh it all paid off these girls made the season fun for myself and Coach Pat uh it's one of the more fun season that we've coached we also coached tackle football for the pal um I always joke with the football players that standard set pretty high now for uh football so undefeated or bust I tell the kids uh but like I said this group of girls deserved everything they got this year undefeated only giving up 16 points out scoring teams by three touchdowns or more uh and like I said they're great group of girls uh we wish them the best to our eighth graders whatever they do hopefully some stick with flag I know others do other sports bowling basketball softball track cheer like I said they're going to accomplish a lot of big things in the future so I just want to say thank you for giving us our first championship as coaches and to make it a historic one so thank you congratulations everybody are you sure sounds like he talks all the time so we're gonna announce your names and if you come up to get your recognition and I'm going to ask you just to circle around the uh the day is here and we'll take a picture when we're done okay thank you very much uh Gia McArdle congratulations Sophia ariata Harley bin uh Amy Ava Rose Sergeant diaa Faith Smith Sophia Kino Dy Jackson uh AR madx conratulations Ariel AO Kimberly Lopez Mia anine and Nina Alvarez not in your face everyone okay we're gonna take several pictures Michelle do you want to stay here everyone look this way then I want you to hold the post for your family okay everybody look this way hold the thank youat here thank you council president I hope so I got a feel oh excuse me ladies I'm sorry parents I just wanna I just want to also thank Cheryl merklinger I know you did a lot to facilitate to get this off the ground great job council president you're [Music] muted thank you Mr Fagan again congratulations Mustangs um and parents and all involved the coaches as well you certainly do make West Orange proud bye they're waving good goodby power atics that's a blesson picture too all right colleagues are do we have any other presentations that's the only one that I see on the um agenda is that it for us tonight for presentations that was the only thing council president and then the coun council a on uh announcements we have approximately 15 minutes to uh to do those uh councilwoman castelino any announcements from you sure I I'll go real quick I just want to thank all those who have come down to downtown Thursdays Thursday nights in our downtown area from 5: to 8 um last Thursday was extremely hot one but a lot of people came out for for I wasn't expecting anyone to come out in that heat with their uh with their pups it was uh the dog days of summer appr named uh with that uh 100 degree weather we almost had but it was a great night uh folks came out um recognized our downtown and um the you know the dogs they were in and out last about a half hour but it was it was a great time this Thursday night um may be getting cancelled look on the notices tomorrow the weather is not going to cooperate uh if it does turn out to be uh nice and does not rain we will be uh back in quick Le's parking lot from 5: to 8 this Thursday and then the following week is an I'm sure Mr Fen will probably have a slide of the Brendan burn recognition at the uh Thomas Edison National Park which will be another great moment uh to showcase our our great downtown thank you council president uh you're welcome thank you Council councilwoman castelino Council woman gabra Michael good evening uh next Wednesday the West Orange pedestrian uh pedestrian safety Advisory Board is going to meet at 7:30 pm via Zoom you can go on to our website to get the link and that concludes my le on announcements thank you councilwoman councilwoman Scarpa yeah thank you um our older adults Advisory Board is moving forward with a number of initiatives this summer Laura van djk who I see here is working fast and furiously to try to get us the bus for OAC we the community band we had a wonderful time I want to thank her and Noelia and everybody for um our trip to Sister Act and the party bus is really um enjoying this summer so hopefully she'll be able to do that for us again let me know or Laura know if you're interested thank you Laura for all you do that's all is that it councilwoman yep that's it thank you councilwoman councilwoman Williams thank you the municipal Alliance uh committee met uh last week uh we did a update on some of the grant funding opportunities that we have so very excited that we have some opioid um monies and a project forthcoming that we will share more with as we uh identify those next steps um and uh continuing to apply for different grant opportunities as well that um commission board meets quarterly the historic preservation commission will not meet in August just due to vacations and uh people having uh various summer calendars uh the West Orange Arts Council is still uh looking for artist submissions for our September October um display and that is going to be on Latin artists and I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate Zu fall health for an amazing um Saturday fund day uh where they hosted different screenings different mobile Vans and health Vans um they had a mobile food truck from Tony's kitchen um giving out uh free food and all kinds of goodies and screenings our health department was there our senior services department was there of course St Barnabas was there just a wonderful collaborative uh opportunity for our kids um that may be underinsured or uninsured um to come out and and receive some services and not just our children as they go back to school but our entire uh West Orange Community and Beyond so again thank you to zufall health for being a community partner uh advocating for health and wellness um in West Orange we appreciate everything that this um community that this institution does for our community thank you thank you councilwoman um the only report I have uh is with regard to the planning board um for those that don't know the planning board is consider con um is considering uh two um high-profile projects right now uh where the community has come out in very large numbers uh to express uh their concerns um the first is the West Essex Highlands uh project uh so I do want to continue to encourage all of those that are uh involved or affected by that particular development as well as those that just care um to come on out to our planning board meetings uh to express your concerns uh the next meeting for the West Essex Highlands is currently scheduled for August 14th which is my birthday um we had one scheduled for the 13th and 14th uh we um postponed one um I will in full transparency let you know I am hopeful that we'll postpone the other as well um but that is currently scheduled uh West essic Highlands is currently scheduled to meet again uh with the planning board uh on August 14th uh tomorrow night uh we will be hearing about 410 Main Street again several hundred or at least a couple hundred our residents have uh weighed in on that particular project uh we do encourage um all of those that are interested to attend tomorrow night and let us know your thoughts uh on the proposed construction at 410 Main Street uh to that end I want to read uh a letter in the into the record that I received uh that all of us received um um uh from the West Orange environmental commission uh it was addressed to the planning board members I am the council appointment I want to make sure my Council colleagues are aware of the environmental commission's position on this particular matter as well uh so I'm going to read that into the record now West Orange environmental commission met on July 24th 2024 to discuss uh the West Essex Highlands matter regarding the development of the property commonly know commonly known as the West Essex Highlands uh given the grave environmental impact that the proposed development will have on the property on the Watershed and wetlands located on the property and in surrounding towns essexfells and Verona on the steep slopes located on and around the pop property and impact on surrounding neighborhoods and homes we write to express our view that the planning board's consideration of the App application is premature at this time we ask that the planning board postpone consideration of the proposed development until such time that it may benefit from relevant information not currently available to the planning board specifically consideration of this matter at this time will deprive the planning board of critical information to come as a result of the property owner's pending application with the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection now this letter goes on with three additional paragraphs in the interest of time I am not going to read them all uh but their position is that it should be postponed uh for West Orange residents that are involved engaged uh and concerned about that particular project we do encourage you uh to stay AB breast of what's happening again the next meeting on that particular project is Wednesday August 14th uh one week from tomorrow night um and that will conclude oh no sorry I also had the the opportunity to attend uh the Zu fall family and Funday um Family Funday uh I thought it was a very well done event um I was very glad to see it so well attended and I am grateful uh for our uh friends at zua Health uh for giv giving back in such a magnificent way um I do know that the the county is a sponsor of that too Essex County or the county of Essex so I want to thank them for their partnership as well uh they were also on site um on on Saturday in that heat uh as well as all of the other vendors but for those of us that had an opportunity to stop by uh you saw the the dozens and dozens if not hundreds of families in West Orange that uh both participated in in the screenings and in the games with the food but we're also inside the facility being served uh with regard to their Healthcare needs so I echoed the sentiments of my colleague it was very well done and I grateful for their partnership uh that will conclude my um my Council liaison announcement um if there's anything else uh um seeing no hands go up we are ready to move into our regular meeting Madame clerk council president we have five minutes before we can do that is it's scheduled at 7 pm we can take a brief recess if anyone needs a bio break unless they're additional comments that need to be be had we have six minutes five minutes I'm sorry uh councilwoman gber Michael is your hand up uh councilwoman castelino your hand is I'll great with a quick break but we when did you want to finish the budget when should we do that we're not going to be able to start and finish in five minutes I think we'll just have to handle it when uh we get to 24024 uh before we um uh so so is your recommendation councilwoman I'm trying to read between the lines would you like to do that before we started our uh consent agenda or anything else on the agenda um well um I would maybe right after public comment there's a couple people here public comment but there our directors are here so yeah it's probably a good idea I I think we should start it before we do our our general meeting so we get it over I'm happy to do I mean that would have been the that's the third item on the agenda um we do have some work on 20 223 as well so sure we can do it right after public comment but we will respond to public comment first I don't want that that delay to happen in it sure unless yeah unless there's a you know a flood of folks in the in the chamber which I cannot see okay we have four minutes then all right so we'll be in a brief recess for four minutes we'll start promptly at 7 o'clock okay I'm gonna thank you ladies e e e e e e I is did good excellent doesn't seem as oldest US frez you think it's freezing I didn't put my sweater on is hot as Ser are you kidding my toes are cold I bring my blanket here's the difference you could put on clothes you don't want us take it off you can put the sweaters on on 702 time to get back to work we're still waiting for councilwoman castelino no yes she's back all um all right Madam clerk okay this is to inform the general public that this meeting is being held in compliance with Section Five of the open public meetings act chapter 231 public 1975 the annual notice was emailed to The Star Ledger and filed in the township clerk's office on November 21st 2023 and published in the West Orange Chronicle on November 30th 2023 councilwoman castelino presid councilwoman gber Michel councilwoman scar councilwoman Williams council president Rutherford here will everyone please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance Pledge of Allegiance to the flag United States of America stands indivisible with liberty and justice for all the council is now on their public meeting thank you uh Madam clerk uh we are going to begin with public comment uh as uh usual we will only have public comment from those that are uh present in person in council chambers um you do not have to be called on to approach the microphone but you do have to state your name and address for the record before you begin your public comment uh we will begin with Mr Fagan followed by Mr Pugi uh and then we will open it up to the rest of the gallery Mr Fagan thank you council president um I have a few brief announcements to make as usual um tonight I'd like to start with uh the season continues at OAC uh August 10 uh August 9th um the rain date is August 10th and it's the HW uh a play that you're going to have to come find out what it means uh the uh tickets are $5 and as always please please bring your own lawn chairs or blanket and this information is at Pleasant Valley productions. org and also is posted on our website we've been getting a lot of complaints coming into the health department about Road issues and I just want to remind the public that uh everyone has a uh has a role to play in rad and prevention and these tips are listed in on our website at weststar.org uh I would suggest everyone uh to to review these and see how they can be helpful and um it would be helpful in Road improving your home and property and it's the most important factor to prevent and control uh unwanted pests uh also uh since last last September and continuing through this fall there has been a property tax reeval revaluation process going on and I have a few updates to share with you this evening um uh Professional Property Appraisers uh they've so far have conducted about 13,300 Residential Properties and there's about 525 commercial properties to go uh I mean uh to to date uh there are about a thousand residential inspections and 300 commercial inspections that still need to be completed um this number it's on our website I'm going to repeat it here it's 866 9571 1388 and you can schedule uh you can call the schedule appointment for any convenient time Daytime Nighttime or or Saturday inspections um and they are taking digital photos so don't you don't need to be alarmed certainly you see someone on your property taking photos it's a natural cause for alarm uh but be aware that they will be on property taking pictures and they will be wearing ID and uh certainly if you have any concerns of a suspicious nature you can call the West Orange Police but uh make sure that they're not there for legitimate reasons before taking any action um and the purpose is uh essentially to ensure that the assessment is accurate so the taxes are based on the actual condition of your home and property rather than an estimate in other words if they can't come into your house they have to assume certain things and in in the process uh it might result in an inaccurate evaluation now if you have further questions uh please don't hesitate to reach out to the tax assessor office uh they of course are here in West Orange toown Hall at room 210 they can be reached by phone at 973 325-4060 or you can email Jacob Newman at J Newman that's NJ NE M an weststar.org if I'm talking too fast do not be concerned this information is on the website uh also um registration opened on July 1st 2024 uh for uh entry level in the West Orange fire department they will be accepting applications through the end of uh August I believe September 3rd uh up to September 3rd thank you and this is uh link to this is posted on our website this is a uh a brief video put out by the uh Civil Service Commission here in New Jersey it's called rise to the challenge and it will help you navigate through the uh Civil Service process uh if you care to apply for the firefighter position because it could be a little daunting the application process and this is here to make it easier um uh activity report for July 2024 um as you can see I uh listed the same categories uh as I did last month and and they're basically staying about the same up one up two down one down two uh but there was H last month there was 657 calls across all categories and it's only a slight change 664 the biggest category is the EMS calls and I imagine that as we expand this out over months that we will see that consistency um there's a test traffic pattern uh on Nassau Street uh from August 1st it began and it will be through the end of the month and it's to uh Nassau Street will be a oneway from South Valley Road towards orange as they say it's a test tra traffic pattern but please be aware and uh as always just follow the uh the signs be aware of your surroundings um we have a the uh downtown alliances continuing this Thursday eagil Rock night of jazz in the downtown Thursday series is from uh 5: to 9 uh the Howard Hall Jazz Trio will be there they're uh always a fan favorite they've been in the downtown before uh and the best thing about this is that it's uh it's all free so come on down uh on uh this Thursday and this information is on the downtown Alliance website and uh some information that just came to me this week um uh officer mango Karen mango sent this along and this happened earlier this uh this summer uh the senior citizen in prom but it was a tremendous uh a tremendous event and the event itself was uh organized by Officer mango she secured all the donations and all the vendor uh not the vendors the donations and the gifts for our senior citizens and it was done in cooperation with our department of senior service and uh there's always events going on through the year so um I just wanted to share that even though this is a little bit late uh that it did happen and it was a tremendous event and we hope that to be an annual event Also earlier this week as many of you know uh Mr gross has retired and there was a small going away ceremony for him here in council chambers uh and mayor McCartney read aloud a proclamation as we all wished uh Mr gross uh well in his retirement um there have been ongoing operations in West starring for tree trimming now when there's um on a main highway or Main Street I try to post it on social media but sometimes it's a side street and I don't want to clog up social media Med with that so it's safe to say that you know just be aware stay stay alert that there are there is tree trimming going on there may be some Crews uh coming available excuse me council president I just have to keep the zoom feed I'm sorry uh also there will be um West Orange Paving and Milling August 14th to uh August 30th uh this uh is um phase two of a uh ongoing of of ongoing project and there are many streets affected by this this chart will be posted uh online uh and we'll be on social media so it's basically in the Gregory Avenue area so uh Please be aware of this and test to see how it may affect your travel schedule and uh as councilwoman celino mentioned earlier uh August 15th there's a Brendan burn historical marker dedication coming up uh to honor our former governor and former Town resident Brendan burn uh pleas please RSVP to the mayor's office Mayor west.org or you can call 973 325 4100 and I believe that this will also be uh councilwoman castalina part of the downtown Thursdays on August 15 yeah so this uh come on out once again free event and um there we think ahead to October 6th uh however uh this is posted for this a specific reason uh well to save the day certainly uh but there is a entry fee uh and a deadline of August 31st which will be uh upon us uh soon and they are looking for uh for sponsors so if anyone uh is interested in being a sponsor uh or has any questions whatsoever uh please contact uh councilwoman uh uh Williams and this information is also on our website and uh once again you can contact all council members in One email council at Westar .org council president I have said enough and that concludes my report thank you thank you Mr Fagan Mr pesi hi Anthony pesi representing County Executive Joe de fenzo I may have mentioned these events earlier during earlier meetings but I just want to reiterate some upcoming events uh first on Saturday August 17th uh at our OneStop Center in East Orange which is 50 South Clinton street is our back to school event uh that's from 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. uh then on September 11th at 8:00 a.m. is our um uh annual September 11th ceremony remembering that tragic day and the 57 Essex County residents who lost their lives that day uh and then finally September 24th with which is a Tuesday from 10: a. to 2 PM is our annual senior Wellness day at Cody Arena um all this information is on the website which is Essex count nj.org thank you yeah thank you Mr pugy um if you in the gallery and would like to um approach the microphone for public comment now is your time please do so give us your name and address before you enter into your comments good evening council members my name is Joyce Ruden Woodland Avenue were you outside today I was and it was over 90 degrees we are now in our third heat wave of the summer yet even in this climate the township Administration is continuing its war on trees that are our best protection from today's heat and potentially night's flooding this past year our Green West Orange worked very hard with this Administration and the Town Council to craft a new tree ordinance which specifically protects Street trees the new ordinance says that healthy trees are not permitted to come down for Road or sidewalk repairs yet just weeks after its passing the township violated this ordinance by removing nearly a dozen healthy Street trees on a once beautiful beautiful treelined Lincoln Avenue located in the Pleasantdale section councilman Rutherford was on the street on June 17th when the grand old trees were hacked down and he couldn't stop it the township violated its own tree ordinance we were told that the street could only be repaved by doing a deep excavation which would destroy the tree roots anyway now we're being told that the grand trees remaining on the street need to come down in order to comply with the American Disabilities Act sidewalks need to be wide enough and slanted correctly to allow for wheelchairs to pass so the township can get grants to pay for everything it's always one excuse after another what we're not being told is that there are solutions which the administration is very well aware of that could be used to repay the roads without without the Deep e excavation near the trees there are ways we can move or fix the existing sidewalks so that we can comply with Ada regulations we just need a little creative engineering Lincoln Avenue is unusually wide and there is room to go around the trees like they did on Maran Drive in the back of ShopRite Plaza code requires streets to be 28 ft linoln Lincoln Avenue is 30 feet wide there is plenty of room to give leeway to leave the trees alone in the areas where the sidewalk is not slanted towards the street pavers can simply raise or move parts of the sidewalk and steer clear of the Integrity of the tree roots or they could use a newer sidewalk method called flexxip pave this porous pavement mixture has been used in woff New Jersey for years to correct bumpy sidewalks any of these solutions would be a win-win for the neighbors and would be a win-win for the township streets can be repaved and sidewalks can be repaired and compliant with Ada regulations gorgeous shade loving trees can be saved nature can be left intact leaving the trees adds quality to our life our safety and our property value maybe the so-called environmental mayor doesn't get how helpful trees are in mitigating climate change but you all do you all pass this measure unanimously I ask you to make sure that our Administration upholds this new tree ordinance stop allowing the township to use one excuse after another to destroy our beautiful old trees you cannot hold residents to one set of rules and the township to another and I just want to show you the there are two trees right now that are threatened for The Chopping Block on August 13th one is the largest pin oak tree you have ever seen it must be over a hundred years old and another one is down the street and is the right in front of one of the speakers who will be speaking tonight one of one in front of her home and I'd be happy to pass this around thank you very much thank you good evening my name name is Teresa Hager I live at 29 Lincoln Avenue one of those beautiful trees is mine in June of 2024 I spoke with the Forester and an engineer regarding the tree in front of my home at 29 Lincoln and that had been marked for cutting the tree is healthy and there's no reason for it to come down I was informed that they would have to move the sidewalk onto myard I'm fine with that um when they left we had an agreement the tree was not to come down last night I discovered that my tree again is marked to be cut down and I'm understanding from pardon my phone sorry um from people that it is the engineer that's asking for this this morning I came across or was introduced to your wonderful uh ordinance tree protection removal and replacement so I was going to read part of it but I don't think I have to because if you are concerned about our trees then you need to help the engineer and the forer understand that as well because you provided them with the means to do that and Page seven of your ordinance Part B prohibits prohibits notwithstanding subsection a above no person shall do any of the following item number six perform Street curb and sidewalk construction or repairs unless utilizing methods that protect the roots and tree of trunk of the tree such as manual evacu excavation reducing the curve curving sidewalks around a tree and modifying driveway aprons to accommodate trees as directed by the Township's Forester and Township engineer I know this is hard work I know it's not an easy solution because it actually physically has to be manually done you can't just drive your plow down the street and I understand it will take more time but in order to to save the beautiful canopies of this town it needs to be done and I'm here asking you to please ask the Forester and engineer to adhere to the ordinance that you have placed in this town thank you thank you good evening Nicole Bell 31 Underwood drive and I apologize I was hoping to jump up quickly so that I wouldn't interrupt the flow of everyone else my comment actually uh follows councilman retherford's last discussion about the 41 Main Street I'm coming here as a member of the older adults Advisory Board and we submitted a letter to the planning board that we'd like to read into the record here dear members of the West Orange Township planning board the members of the older adults advis board are writing to ask you ask that you please thoroughly consider whether the development as proposed for the lot at 410 Main Street and the requested variances are feasible in light of the potential public safety issues during our May board meeting Miss MK Adams along with a number of her neighbors and other residents in that area spoke about their concerns regarding the proposed development Miss Adams and her neighbors noted not only the inconveniences that will result for both the new residents of the building and the current residences of the neighborhood many of whom happen to be seniors and children if the current building proposal is approved and the requested variances are granted but they also spoke about the hazards and threats to the safety of both the local residents and the children in the nearby schools who walk home to the businesses in the downtown walk home and to the businesses in the downtown area Miss Adams explained that the developer has requested a number of C variances for setbacks that are significant but two of the requested variances one to allow the developer to to provide less than the required number of parking spaces for the renters in a building of the prop of this proposed size and one to allow the developer to build a larger structure than that for which the lot is currently zoned raise public self safety concerns Excuse Me Miss Adams and the residents both of the Park Drive Loop and the local degman house senior residents explained that mainst street is already a dangerous area for pedestrians having been named a high Injury Network by the town's Vision zero study they noted that allowing the developer to build a structure that is 33% larger than the lot is currently zoned for and to use 22% more land than is currently allowed will reduce the amount of sidewalk in that area and make it even more dangerous for pedestrians the residents who came to speak to the O aab advised not only are the public bus stops in that area but school buses pick up and drop off children there as well one resident of the Degan house who uses a motorized wheelchair to get around noted that the sidewalk is already fairly narrow in that area he informed the OAB board that he waits in front of the lot in question for the bus and expressed concerns that he will be forced to travel in the street in that area and wait for the bus in the street as well if the current proposal is approved Miss Adams and the residents of the loop also advis the OAB that the developer is requesting permission to provide almost half as many parking spaces as required for a building of the proposed size from 25 spaces down to 13 they noted that if the developer is allowed to reduce the number of parking spaces for renters in its building there may not be enough parking spaces for the new residents let alone their guests they explained that the new residents and their guests will be forced to park on the street Miss Adams and the residents informed our board that there's already very limited parking in their neighborhood an issue that they noted they have previously raised with the town they explained that the houses along the loop were built before cars were as common place as they are today so most of the homes do not have driveways in addition the street is extremely narrow parking is limited to one side of the street in an effort to leave some room for vehicles to travel the road some residents of the loop are already forced to park on nearby streets outside of the loop on the other side of Main Street because of the inadequate parking in their neighborhood the residents are concerned that reducing the parking spaces required for the new residents will only further exacerbate the parking problem even more concerning however is the location of the one proposed driveway for the foron Main Street apartment building Miss Adams and her neighbors explained that the developer is planning to have only one entrance and exit for the cars of its residents that one driveway is set to exit on Park Drive North which is a oneway going up away from Main Street every car that exits that building therefore will have to drive around the entire Park Drive Loop in order to get on to Main Street considering that it seems that it would have been more sensible to design the building with both an entrance and an exit with the exit on either Main Street or the Park Drive south side of the building it would not only limit the traffing AL traffic along that Loop where at the top of which Miss Adams explained many children play but it would also deter impatient new residents from attempting to make a quick illegal turn down Park Drive North and onto Main Street in order to avoid taking the trip around the loop each time they want to leave their building my time is almost up so I'm going to let my colleague finish the letter in his time good evening prank bars for ridg viw Avenue West Orange however Miss Adams and her neighbors explained that having the driveway on Park Drive North especially with the additional variances requested around the required setbacks will pose a threat for collisions between cars exiting the building and cars turning off of Main Street onto the loop because the two drivers won't be able to see each other until it's too late the residents noted a very recent collision between a car that stalled near the bottom of Park Drive North close to where the current proposed driveway would be and a driver turned off of Main Street who did not see the stalled car until it was almost too late based on the information shared by Miss Adams her neighbors and other residents in the area the OAB is concerned about the public safety issues that may result from the proposed development at 410 Main Street and urge the planning board to visit the site if you haven't already done so and consider all of these issues carefully before making a decision about the proposed requested variances thank you for your time and consideration and we list the members of The Advisory Board all of whom signed the letter thank you thank you good evening Sally mango Ridge Road on behalf of R Green West Orange our Township engineer Seth is using backwards techniques for curb and sidewalk repair around trees instead of employing sensible techniques our engineering department is simply cutting down the big shade trees that have taken 50 years to grow the whole world is under a mandate to plant trees our Green West Orange members have been standing before you for five years talking about this we cannot be cutting them especially Street trees which are shading our sidewalks our homes and streets from excessive heat the tree ordinance specifies that they have to work around the trees they can't be pulling curbs out from under them it takes 14 years for an oak tree to grow to 25 ft as it stands now Lincoln Avenue will have no shade for 14 years minimum there are heavy rains coming again this week and is the engineering department going to protect Lincoln Avenue from flooding the next on the list is Colonial Woods Drive an area that has excessive flooding and there is a bond to be voted on this evening I suggest you vote no on any bonds for Street repair unless they explicitly require that trees be preserved not that this has to be because our tree ordinance already States it but maybe they need double reminders and do the streets actually need repairs apparently Lincoln Avenue did not really need any repairs so they lost their shade trees maybe for nothing a resolution protecting Street trees during Road repair could be added to the language of the bonding the engineering department must commit to following the tree ordinance or they will be in violation and that is a serious matter it opens up the township to Citizens litigation since you're also doing the budget we need a budget amount for trees there is a very important tree that's dying at the swimming pool under which many people sit for shade I understand there's no budget to replace even that one tree so not only is our mayor cutting down our precious Street trees at a very high cost we're not finding the means to take care of the trees we are fond of also on tonight's agenda is the fee structure for the tree ordinance uh for replacement trees we need an exp an explanation of that tree replacement uh those fees going into the fund so we have the violations of the tree ordinance by our own town engineering department and we have no budget for Street trees so with your help these matters can be easily corrected thank you thank you thank you Lawrence con Lincoln AV Lincoln I've been here a couple of times I'm sorry can you repeat your name please Lawrence Cohen Lincoln Avenue thank you and uh uh the the the Lincoln Avenue uh is we moved to a Treeline Street and it's no longer tree and it's really amazing uh Devastation that's happened there two big iconic trees that are left that's it and now yesterday morning walking walking out of the house early morning you see the green which is coated which the Forester coated has turned to Red which means cut down and so I called up people I called up Walter Kip and asked what happened and he said oh I was going to call you I'm not sure but um he said uh they're due to be cut this coming week Monday Tuesday or Wednesday I said why he said um it's um it's an engineering decision and it's uh the lawyer the Mr trink or something who who wanted to do this and it has to do with liability that there too much danger uh for the community for the for the township to assume and he said this is what Walter said he said that he went to the homeowners and asked them to sign uh a piece of paper saying that they would take liability over whatever happened to the tree after the the road paving and the sidewalk whatever and uh he said that the homeowner uh homeowner said no they they weren't going to sign that and take the responsibility then I the other homeowner is right here just spoke and she uh the beautiful tree it's it's probably 120 years old on Roosevelt and Lincoln I mean the time of Thomas Edison and she said no there was she never even KN it was when I called her that she noticed that it had was it was coted to red and um she had never been propositioned with signing over the the responsibility and the liability for whatever happened to the tree after road paving so you know I'm at wit sends what is this is there these stories I don't know what I don't know what's happening then I I tried to delve deeper and I asked M Mr uh Kip you know what is this about and he sort of said that um on the on one of the trees it has to do with the sidewalk and uh uh if they redid the sidewalk they'd have to shave the roots and The Roots uh are pretty high and that would that would compromise the he of the tree and I said really there's not that much of a you know you could just put a little lip over the sidewalk or you could do something careful I mean and and he said something about a one one degree grade or you know that has to be com uh compiled with I don't know I was gobble goop to me I don't know what it is he always has some sort of number and some sort of code and and just say this is the reason for that and the other tree at Roosevelt and uh and Lincoln he said um that that might involve the curb which is actually Belgian block right now being redone with a new Belgian block they will look exactly the same but it would have to be ripped out and that could compromise the health of the tree so I mean this is there is a tree ordinance say You're supposed to save these trees and these are iconic um you know really special trees for maybe the biggest trees in West Orange and um it's it's almost absurd it's like kakaa novel to say that after they've destroyed 12 of The Big Trees already that the two surviving trees and they're they're pin oaks beautiful pin oak trees totally healthy the the canopy is perfect um that they're going to be taken down too um I'm just wondering where this is coming from you know that's $6,000 probably a tree that's $112,000 I don't know if there's you know a Lobby for the the tree company that they need that money or but it's a waste the money for the town certainly and uh the way the the town is throwing around money is unbelievable because the road could be patched up in certain places it doesn't need to whole repaving this is a deadend street uh Lincoln Avenue it has hardly any traffic so the whole idea of all of this changes it's going to cost probably close to a million dollars I mean it's just and I know it's grants whatever it's not actual West Orange but it's still New Jersey state money or federal money I don't know it's just a waste of money and it and the trees they can't talk they can't they can't say please don't don't kill us I mean we counted just my wife and I counted this morning five nests in the tree on Roosevelt and Lincoln five nests so you're going to be killing stuff in there and there's also brown bats very a very rare bat that's that that goes in those tree in the spring that we notice so I mean that these are possible environmental violations too if they cut down the tree I don't know if they need a restraining order if they need an injunction I don't know what's going to stop them but let's stop it it's going to come down next week your time is up thank you sir good evening my name is Joseph pulo we live on HRI spells in the 200 foot notice area of the proposed Highlands development I work with Weare Paul traed Mur is normally here but Paul is pursuing something else he's been pursuing for twice as long as he has this project and that is public education and equity and funding for schools he's working on an appeal but he's been behind the beginning of since 1975 so you won't hear from Paul tonight but he's here in spirit I'm sorry Mr President I don't see you but I feel you wherever you are members of the council everybody good evening um so I'd like to pick up where we left off two weeks ago and leave a question counselor I don't know I can address you directly but I will leave a question on the floor because at the end of the last meeting a question was posed about how to confront proper procedure and the potential for liability we're both going to spend money we're spending private money Town's paying taxpayer money and it was suggested that because of ongoing litigation that that better must that matter best be kept behind closed doors guess that sounds fine but we would like to know what docket number and what parties are actively in litigation because as far as we know there's a sent agreement it's executed where everybody's cooperating and not sure who's contested that agreement that's active so we would ask that said this uh is a tree that fell down in my yard last year and I brought it here because if one had the patience or the ability to count the rings on this tree which fell from West Orange into Essex spells how I met Walter Kip sure there are between 10070 180 rings around this tree that one through year that would be before the Civil War in the United States wow on a different day that's without the on a different day I will demonstrate or show a picture of a tree that's in my backyard with a 16 foot diameter this fo tree is 8 ft in diameter and 175 years old the 16t diameter tree goes back to 1700 1600 something that something that the justification for one of the justifications to take down trees in the forest is because there are 25,000 Tre that are incapable of regenerating themselves because the deer are killing them and all that and that was done in 2019 Walter kit presented a study May 2023 this is a 2019 tree removal plan and survey done by the developer that reflects 85,000 trees I live on the woods I can promise you there are not 60,000 trees on the ground that's one problem don't know fact don't have pleas 6 tree STS less qu than an 8ot diameter or a 16t diameter tree how you calculate storm water I don't know but the D told us last week that the developers application will be allowed to use prior not current storm water calculations to figure out storm runoff calculations rainfall Etc this is a picture of taken a week ago today of the site that is not an unhealthy Forest I'll put the around in a minute this home is it's upside down that is the headers of the canoe right there sorry that's the headers of the canoe starts right behind that pool there's a DI through here we'll make these available for those of you who can't see that is not an unhealthy Forest under anybody's imagination and for those of you who can't see this other shot there's a picture taking from the ridge line to the left this is where the buildings are go here on top of the mountain where there's trees these are old trees these are hundreds of year old trees they don't know a property line the steep slopes that are going to be blasted trees removed you think you're going to get trees with root system that big sleep sles that blast because you replanted them that would be a common sense mistake you don't need a g3e to figure that out or and the last thing I'll show you is this is the calculation taken from that tree survey reflecting 25,000 trees 60,000 trees two Ines two feet six feet time is up time's up sorry I'll be back thank you all there's more to know there's a lot there's a lot of trees that we're going to get taken down you're welcome to thank you for your time everybody I'm going leave that Sur behind sobody should [Music] have no Rachel c h drive I'll be nowhere near as interesting um but we know um our the the development we're fighting we know it's in front of the planning board and something that came out at the planning board we feel that the public who don't um necessarily listen or pay attention to what's going on they should be aware of little facts that are coming out bit by bit one of the facts that is coming out about this development which apparently is within the actual letter of the law is that they plan to make the units that they're doing for the COA or the fair share housing lesser up to 40% smaller in size than the luxury apartments they're making for the regular market rate they already plan on using lesser appliances and again this is within the law they're allowed to but does it make it right they also um now the clubhouse and the amenities that everyone's going on and on about they're apparently going to be members only without an explanation of what does member mean because in the settlement there refers them as being open to those who live in the development now that does not sound like the case the architect's only response was well the doors will all look the same and I don't ex I don't find that acceptable I think there are a lot of issues with this development and now just add another issue you know we're we're doing our fair share housing you know we're meeting our fair share housing requirements but at what cost this seems inappropriate to me um and with that uh I B you good night thank you thank you is there oh El Lando 43 Carteret Street I'm sorry can you repeat that Betty Lando 43 Carteret Street thank you I'm not talking about trees but that was all very important I'm I'm here to express my concern about the proposed smokers going in by Mayfair Farms um I don't know if you've ever been near a smoker but they spew a lot of really bad smoke that's really unhealthy for the lungs I personally have hypers sensitivity hypers sensitivity pneumonitis which is an autoimmune disease that affects the lungs and when I have a flare up I am out of commission for months I'm on supplemental oxygen and I'm not leaving my house um this kind of smoke is would set me off for sure and it's not good for anybody to be breathing it it it does it it attacks the lungs and slowly over time and these amount of smokers um just are not good for the neighborhood I feel like while maybe the smokers are allowed within the zoning of that place um basically it's a residential neighborhood the businesses that are there serve the residents for the most part and this kind of um I don't know industrial meat producing whatever it's going to be is more appropriate for an industrial Zone where there are not people around who are breathing in the pollution um so I would ask that you all take that into account thank you thank you hi Jen hardell blue violet Grove 76 Ashlin um I'm just here to see if I could get uh some clarification if there's any new updates on the timeline for the application to go live for cultivation and manufacturing I'm not sure if I heard it or maybe I misunderstood it but I thought it was supposed to be within 20 days from when the second vote went through which I think would have been this week so I just would like to see if I could get some clarification if there's any timeline or planning of of when that application is going to go live thank you thank you there's no one else in Council chamber is looking to come to the podium council president thank you then we will close public comment do want to thank all of those that came in person uh we will begin our responses um councilwoman celino sure thank you council president thank you to everyone who came out this evening as usual Mr Fagan had lots of great information a lot going on um I'm gonna comment just briefly and I know our um Health Department directors here with the rodm prevention um yeah folks definitely if you're having any kind of issue uh reach out to us and and absolutely look at the tip tips um talking to a lot of residents recently in regards to all things with the Garbage Contract and trying to you know uh the health department was advocating for us to go to the cart system which um we we are not doing I know they're little dis disappointed with because they felt that that would help but um the state a couple years back in my investigating of the situation um actually um stopped not just us but other townships from baiting the sewers for various reasons and that uh we feel is adding to the issue as as well as um many of uh residents maybe newer residents particularly in some of business owners just not putting out their garbage in proper containers so please you know look at uh if you have an issue uh please look around at your neighbor and you know reach out to us uh so Administration I appreciate all the speakers coming out Joyce thank you for all the information you brought as well as Lawrence and the uh the others I don't understand why this is still coming up as an issue we passed the tree ordinance I understand we had some issues with the road pavement but we have a 200y old tree sitting in front of the community house correcting me if I'm wrong Mr Fagan with the plaque on it and the county constantly you know they they repair the roadways right there and I I don't know if we and I don't want to I don't want to frustrate our professionals because I know Miss carbella takes our job very seriously she does an excellent job for us uh and I know there's other nuances to just what was mentioned this evening I I'll share the story again Roots were damaged um my daughter's Tree in in her house and and a year later to almost a day it fell right through her bedroom roof so I could understand why residents who don't want to sign off on that paperwork uh absolutely so and we're at a predicament here we we have a situation where we have to get roads paved you may not feel that the road should be paved and we get dozens of phone calls from other neighbors not maybe that street but you know that want their they've been waiting years to get their streets paved so I think we have to figure this out how we can repair the sidewalks try to save the trees I will tell you one thing the money moves very slow so that project as it was just getting done was approved budgeted and under the restrictions of that Grant from two years prior so it's so they're kind of they may not be explaining this all to you because you know they're just as frustrated but they're in a situation where they have to comply to the restrictions that they were under when they receive the monies for the project and it's it really has become a really unfortunate situation that we can't figure things out like especially with the state you know the state's putting pressure on one hand um to make sure that we're environmentally friendly then everyone's doing the you know the right things and we you know we saved trees in the environment on another hand you know we have to comply to some of their restrictions with you know handicap accessibility and rightfully so so again we we have to do a much better job of figuring this out um because just looking at those pictures and I drove down the street and it's it's heartbreaking I don't blame all of you for Fe feeling the way you do I just don't have an answer for you this evening I I hope Administration can figure it out and I don't know if Mr smdo council president wants Administration to comment on anything uh later on but thank you all for coming sharing and uh yeah we have to figure how we could get this done better but when we're dealing with money that were approved from two years ago the directors are limited on what they could could do today um in regards to North Drive uh North Park Park Drive North sorry about that folks and thank you for coming out the members of the senior board um so yeah so downtown Alliance the developer had come to us a couple times on that project and each time you know we weren't happy with you know what they were proposing at one point there was more units at one point um maybe I think it was I think the project sold and I think the prior the prior uh owner had came with less units which was more hopeful so when this plan came out but again that is something for the plan board not for us I appreciate you reading and sharing it but we're not going to be voting on that downtown Alliance doesn't vote on it um when developers come to us we give recommendations you know Miss Miss bril is very very um you know she gives her opinion she's not shy especially when she sees a project that uh may not be appealing to her downtown that one's very tight um but in most downtowns limiting the parking isn't um is that unusual in fact I go to the trade show conventions and they tell you in certain areas in the downtown you should be less uh lessening the Restriction because you want walkability people you know would take the bus but that not there and the downtown board too when we talked about this project um there there are concerns because it's a tight spot there I know the street well my husband's Aunt lived on the street for 45 years uh she'd have you know we go go for my C cousin's birthday and yeah you couldn't find a spot we all had a carpool just to park on Park Drive North so I definitely understand um the the restrictions there for parking we do have parking uh for those on um with Bethany at Bethany Church at night it's the hours Administration could correct me on that but it's free parking you just need a permit to apply with us we made that we made that arrangement with them a few years back um and so there is overnight parking there for that neighborhood a lot of folks don't take advantage of it either they don't know about it or the restrictions just don't work out for them but um we did create that opportunity for them a few years back because we do recognize the limitations of parking in that area and even with the commercial space they're proposing that's tight twoo because again now you need I don't know what kind of business would be able to survive without uh a a good amount of parking uh so that will be tough but um again something for the planning board I just wanted to share with you that you know we did review it and we you know we made our comments and you know we wish the developer you know good luck but you know told them was overly ambitious and so we'll see how the planning board reacts to the project but thank you for sharing and the smokers so I I don't I haven't had chance I heard about it and I we've had um we've had complaints before and I know our our ba who's our former fire chief could talk probably more to to that as well um and term ba I'm sorry well tonight you're you're oh with this oh you can't speak I apologize um I apologize mral he's limited because he serves also in his capacity on the planning board um or maybe Mr Jenaro could speak about the ordinance and if I may just so everybody understands while while the administration appreciates everybody coming in tonight to speak about applications before the planning board it's a it's a a separate body and for all of us up here to St to speak about items on the planning board is should be presumption we we were supposed to listen to what the planning board says and not formulate opinions here and we appreciate the input from the um public but I as a member of the planning board I can't speak about it because then I have to recuse myself so I just would caution everybody whether be west6 Highlands or 10 Main Street or even the smoker application let the planning board hear the applications and go from there because that's their that's their their position so I would only suggest that and caution you and that's just my two cents no I and I appreciate that Mr smal though so it because it's hard we sit here we we're empathetic and and and we feel for all the items uh that you bring before us but again a lot of these items should be brought before the planning board uh I said a few words last time about West Essex Highlands and again I'm not going to you know talk to it this evening because of the those reasons um but I do appreciate all the folks coming out to Advocate it is important and uh just thank you all for taking your time to come down especially on this uh uh nasty evening with all the rain so thank you council president thank you councilwoman and also thank you Mr moraldo I just want to say you know um I certainly do understand um and agree with Mr sm's position with regard to his personal uh responses in a council meeting um regarding applications that are before the planning board I do think it's also important for the Town Council to let their sentiments be known uh the other four that are on the council are not on the planning board and would not have to recuse themselves while um I have to be very careful with what I say as a member of the of the planning board um you know opining on whether or not I like or support or don't like or do not support uh any particular projects or for what reasons uh but I do think it's important that the council members are aware of what these issues are and if they decide to uh let the planning board know how they feel they should um they should feel free to do so we certainly do want to know how the Town Council feels about um some of these matters uh you know I would argue about all of those matters um especially those members that are not actively serving on the on the planning board uh so having said that uh we will move to councilwoman GB Michael good evening everyone to those of you in person and those on Zoom um thank you s you came out here tonight to speak on important matters and Advocate um we are all in this together first I'd like to thinkk um our Advocates who spoke about the tree situation it is extremely unfortunate and sad and saddening to see what's happening um and I you know I agree with my Council colleague councilwoman castlin I don't know why we're here now I don't know why why trees are being taken down when they shouldn't be taken down um you know unless it's an unhealthy tree if it's a healthy tree our goal should be to save it to preserve it to find ways and be creative because I'm sure we are not the only municipality with this issue so we should be reaching out to other forms of governments that also pave Tree Line roads that might have similar situations us there have to be other ways as my understanding those of you have mentioned tonight Mr Kip mentioned there are other alternative methods to um you know work working around the trees um so I don't know what the option is you know I'm hoping the administration will see something I don't know if Mr Kip is on or or our our director's alth is on um but it is a little you know upsetting and unnerving to know that you know we have healthy trees that are being cut um so I look forward to hearing from the administration and I really am sorry because especially with this heat you know water retention all this flooding um we need trees so thank you guys for your advocacy um you know regarding 410 Main Street I have met with a few constituants regarding this um you know I Echo your concerns as well I'm hoping a study will be done and conducted in terms of you know traffic and parking and um to really get an understanding in how we can you know remedy the situation so I you know I hope to hear from the administration on that as well so thank you for your advocacy and reading the letter you know here tonight um regarding the West Essex Highland development Mr pulo thank you so much for that very comprehensive presentation it's actually like see it in person you know thank you guys for your advocacy I stand by my comments in the last meeting and you know we were advised by our uh legal council that we're not supposed to be discussing this but I stand by my sentiments and thank you guys for your advocacy um regarding the smokers thank you for coming out tonight um I'm not in support of them either um why there why in a residential area what happens when we have wind and you know like it's going to go blowing how far will blow are there studies done there Ian I have history of bronchitis I've had covid three times my lungs are not as strong either so I'm sure there are many people who have issues and um so I I am not for this application but unfortunately it's not before us it's a different governing body um and regarding cultivation I hope that we can discuss this Miss hardell in new business if we make it usually our meetings end after midnight and I have been leaving after midnight because after six hours I have back issues and literally all of my physical therapy is being re reversed um with spine damage from last year so um and to speak on that in the last meeting I left executive session at 12:30 around 12:30 12:20 being told by the council that we were going to adjourn the meeting because you know it's after midnight already we wouldn't be voting I did not know when they came back to council chambers in fact we were looking at dates to host special meeting for the following week so that way we could vote on the agenda um but when they came back to council CH Chambers all of a sudden you know the council was voting on really important matters so I was a little disappointed that I couldn't be there to vote on it when I was told it would be adjourned and we'd have a special meeting so I'm not sure what happened and I'm sorry to my constituents that I couldn't weigh in for you guys because I definitely would have voted differently on a number of items so I can explain that after done so thank you all again and that concludes my uh response to public comment thank you councilwoman we will go to councilwoman Scarpa followed by Council woman Williams thank you I think I'm GNA start with Larry Cohen because I feel like I go way back with him Larry thank you for coming out again when I first met you on Lincoln Avenue many many months ago I never dreamed that your beautiful Street would be decimated the way it was especially with all the advocacy that council president Rutherford and myself have um been making uh and with the advocacy of Joyce Ruden who worked so hard with me and the environmental commission to craft this tree ordinance I just I walked down the streets of East Hampton that have trees the size of this deis round they have figured out a way to preserve their trees I think as we've heard tonight there are ways to preserve these treaties and we need to figure out how to do it and I have to agree with Sally manga um you know there it's ridiculous that we continue to put out these ordinances and maybe there has to be something written in it I don't know if legally we can do that I was planning on voting no on 28 6824 tonight because I want to see a supplemental debt statement attached to each and every one of these requests to bond that we get I know it's in the clerk's office but I've asked many times for it and I think the public needs to see how much debt we actually have as we make these very difficult choices about what to fund and what not to fund but this is another a secondary reason why this should not be voted on until we figure out how to do this work responsibly so thank you to Joyce thank you to Sally Larry and Teresa my heart breaks for you I I can't imagine what it must be to move into a beautiful treelined Street have it decimated have your property home values affected the shade the cooling of your of your home um we really need to do better and I hope that maybe we could get together with the administration and figure out this very serious problem um Joe panula thank you for your incredibly entertaining presentation tonight as you know I am a fan I am prepared to do everything that I possibly legally can to help we care I uh would love to frame your beautiful artwork would be happy to take it home with me as a reminder of what I can do in my community as I sit in this seat to assist you and all of the other residents that's why we're here and that would be a nice reminder Rachel clein too thank you for all of your advocacy with Weare and all of the work that you do helping me craft the newsletter for the senior citizens Advisory Board uh I I it's my own newsletter my Council newsletter but that is so important to the residents who came who are not on email who asked me for that publication and I got a call from a woman today who I actually went to school with her son and she said she picked it up in the shop right and that she wants to come with us on the bus to OAC and she called me to actually ask me where some of the movies were and so I walked through your color coding system and now she knows how to read the newsletter and it's making an impact on so many of our seniors who would otherwise not have that information so I have to thank you on so many fronts for the work that you're doing and with all the children you have I can't believe that you make the time for all of us so thank you thank you thank you and with that to my colleagues and my friends on the older adults Advisory Board Nicole Bell thank you for all you do and all your advocacy and for coming here and explaining to the public how those residents felt when they came to speak with us it's important that they be heard and that we give them a venue unfortunately I'd like to encourage we can't do as much as we would like here other than let people know how we all feel about these issues but what you can do is you can ENC I encourage you to make your voice heard at the planning board because that's really where the decisions are going to be made but thank you all for all you do and the work that you do with our Advisory Board I know everyone appreciates it um I think I got oh Betty Betty Lando you know how I feel about the smokers I have done considerable research um I have a lot of information coming out to residents on the smokers thank you to our Green West Orange they have so beautifully articulated this problem on their website and I would encourage anyone concerned about this issue not only to contact me but to go on to the or Green West Orange website and on one page you have a beautiful visual of this problem with a nice short paragraph and some good research and video of why this is so important to understand and to voice your concerns about so thank you Betty and I hope we'll see you at the planning board and that's about it thank you councilwoman councilwoman Williams thank you I just want to thank everyone for uh joining us this evening for our Council meetings via Zoom or here in person um Mr py Mr Fagan thank you so much for your Municipal and County updates um wanted to speak to the concerns that we do have with the trees um procedurally uh it was stated that the township may have violated uh the ordinance that we just passed I don't know what the dates are but I would be hardpressed to believe that the town would violate its own ordinance um again my colleague explained that sometimes we are behind schedule on the repaving and the funding of the repaving projects um we can confirm with the administration but to my knowledge as well as the engineering department but to my knowledge we're still still completing or just completed uh 2021 Street Paving we are not even at 2022 um Street Paving or we are just starting um that process so again to the point where um we we're assuming that the tree removal process is not respected um but by our Administration certainly each of us as elected officials unanimously voted to support our treat ordinance after over a year and a half of debate um and trying to get this ordinance um acceptable to all of us as well as something um that would not be a financial burden on our our resident um so I just I do want to with with a little delicacy um just speak to and encourage the administration by all means we have heard we have begged we have pleaded um our residents are continuously coming to us every meeting asking for us to um create some different um opportunities for us to do the street repaving I would disagree um that that residents don't want their streets paved I think as far as concerns um that our residents bring to our attention at these meetings the two top priorities would be Street Paving and trees um those are the two things that everybody talks about tree removal and Street Paving so I wouldn't be certain um that that people don't want their street paves indeed they do um it causes just as many problems as the the loss to the environment per se um and that's just my own personal opinion they both have considerable damages um in in their own respects uh so I wouldn't pit them against each other I'm just making the note that those are the two top priority concerns for our residents with that being said we have to find a way to protect our tree canopy in this town um our environmental commission um has done an extensive work to make us understand that the reduction since 2019 is catastrophic to our community um I don't know if it's also accurate it's my recollection that we do have a small budget um for tree replacement even in this budget um so I'll ask the administration to also confirm um and just quickly if you can review that because it's my understanding that there is a very small um budget for tree replacement so that was I just want to make sure that statement is accurate um in addition to that again thank you to the public who came um before us with the applications that are pending before the planning board and if I misoke mispoke at our last meeting saying that the Hons was pending litigation it is a pending application to our planning board so litigation perhaps no but a a pending application which is something that we as elected officials have to respect our our other boards and let them um have their governing process and so um duly noted respected appreciate everyone coming to make sure we are aware um we certainly do need to be aware but we just are not the appropriate governing body um for the development of projects in town and I would also ask U Mr Jenaro when it's the appropriate time for the administration to respond just so that there is Clarity for myself as well as my colleagues um when there are pending applications for our quas judicial boards whether it be zoning or planning it was my understanding based on the classes that I've taken in the past and just basic um training for us as elected officials that we should not be commenting at all on any applications that are before those other boards so while you know the public may want to hear um our opinion of those pending applications it is my understanding that that is absolutely inappropriate for us to do and could potentially put the township as well as ourselves if it ever comes back before us for any type of ruling that we would have to perhaps recuse or um you know perhaps even be pending litigation so just if you could clarify that when you have an opportunity I would appreciate um that input and then um my last comment and again we've already addressed this um with um our Administration is when is the application for cultivation going live and if we can get a hard um deadline on that other than that I think that is a response to most if not all of the comments and trying not to repeat all of the things that my colleagues have said um but again we're all here we all have the same concerns and um we're absolutely listening to the concerns of the public so thank you all and again just don't hesitate in reaching out and making sure we're aware thank you thank you councilwoman uh as always Mr pesi Mr Fagan uh we do appreciate your presence in our Council meetings and providing the information uh that you do on a bi-weekly basis um with regard to Mr Fagan's presentation um covering the rodent prev certainly do want to stress that um want to make sure that uh residents are doing what we can to help mitigate the issue but the township has uh a daunting task I don't care where you look in the country when it comes to dealing with rodents and particular it is always a difficult battle um like many in town uh I was you know supportive of the carts I understand the process that we went through and um you know in in a deliberative body you have to make compromise sometime um I've already expressed my hesitancy around U rolling out the carts now so I won't go back through that um so we've got to address it differently and what I said at the time was uh at the time we made um our last statement about the Garbage Contract is that I expect um that in the new uh capital budget which we will enter into uh as soon as humanly possible um that there will be a money set aside to purchase garbage cans around town to help as well as having DPW workers assigned to to uh uh empty them and and you know maintain those garbage cans uh I expect that that will be a part of our capital budget um I'm going to come back to the paving these are two things that Mr Fagan brought up the road and prevention and the uh Paving um I'm going to come back to that later uh the third thing Mr Fagan brought up that I wanted to acknowledge was the senior prom senior citizen senior prom I thought that was an absolutely fantastic event uh do salute um officer mango for her uh as she just did a great job there but I also want to acknowledge Laura van djk and her team uh for being supportive and helping out uh to pull that uh magnificent event off so uh we certainly do thank everyone that was involved and we're looking forward um as Mr Fagan or someone else said uh to making that an annual event um with regard to the street trees on Lincoln Avenue um so yes I was there I was there several times I uh we the second time I was there we had an agreement on saving many of the trees that had been slated to come down um and then the third time I was there several of those had been reversed I was very disappointed I did everything I could contractors were on site and they were uh abiding by their orders um to me um that was um a a major disappointment um from a timing standpoint we had already passed the tree ordinance uh that had been communicated townwide the mayor had attempted to delay implementation the council rejected that um and yet and still Street trees were taken down for Paving purposes if you look at other towns even near us uh that have the same issues with Paving streets they find a way somehow to maintain their tree canopy uh so you know we don't have to reinvent the wheel we just have to honor what's on the books uh and follow best practices um I am I am uh further disappointed that uh two additional trees are slated to come down I spoke with Mr Coen earlier this week or maybe it was late last week I think it was late last week uh regarding that particular particular issue um I just forwarded to my colleagues via email um some documents that were forwarded to me by our town Forester that uh show the Myriad ways uh townships can address uh Street Paving and sidewalk uh replacement without removing trees uh particularly with regard to miss Hagar who spoke up a little earlier tonight uh who is willing to uh accomodate uh the sidewalk on her private property in order to save the tree I do want to thank our interim ba for reaching out immediately to uh the affected departments and requesting that they do everything they can to honor her request uh I Echo that sentiment again I want to thank our inim ba Mr Abbot for doing so um but if the homeowner is willing to have the sidewalk on her yard to save the tree then I think that's exactly what should be done um and further that should be explained to every homeowner uh and I understand that it has been in some cases uh it's been brought to me that in some cases it hasn't um uh but I do understand that um there is an opportunity if the homeowner is willing to work with us to save the tree by allowing the sidewalk on their yard we should take advantage of that every single time that we can with regard to the comments that have been shared by my colleagues celino and Williams regarding the timing of these contracts s and uh when they were stated uh when they were approved rather uh we have dealt with change orders uh all the time um if the ordinance has changed and there's a desire to honor the ordinance give us a change order uh submit you know speak with the town Forester submit a change order so that we can use any of the technology that he has already presented to us that would actually save that tree um that is normal way of doing business and I would expect that that would be the way it's done going forward again this the tree ordinance must be honored if there's a challenge honoring the tree ordinance and and it's something structural with the tree ordinance let us know we're happy to revisit it uh but if it's not something embedded in the ordinance itself uh then the tree ordinance must be honored um before I go further well be before I go further I will allow Mr Jenaro to comment on uh councilwoman Williams uh question I'm going to come back to the administration for the rest of the of of those questions but I wanted to have Mr Jenaro comment on the question about council members who are not on the planning board commenting about uh applications that are before the planning board Mr jengar okay council president um what I can say is that at least with regard to the West essic Highlands uh matter that's before the planning board it's court ordered settlement anything done or said by Town Council May undermine the settlement and may lead to potential litigation um with regard to other matters that are before the planning board I will do some research and get back to everybody as to whether or not Town Council should be commenting on them however my understanding is and again I will do some research to confirm my understanding is that they should that the Town Council should refrain from commenting until the planning board is made a determination however I will again preface with I will do some research and get back to thank you Mr Jenaro um I am I am because I am on the planning board I'm going to limit my commentary my understanding was that if you're on the planning board you cannot weigh in with regard or opine about your sentiments on a project um I am grateful for uh Miss Bell reading uh her letter and Mr Bar's reading that's completing the reading of that letter into the record I will do my very best to enter it into the record uh tomorrow night when we hear this application before the planning board um um M manga uh requested that we vote no on the bond unless it express ly preserves Street trees uh I understand your sentiment I I I share it actually I think the tree ordinance should be enough I do have some questions on that particular bond issue and I'm happy to discuss it at that time um I'm disturbed by uh Mr Cohen's uh comments that homeowners were requested to assume uh the risk of trees on their on uh uh Township own trees uh post Paving um that seems to me to be a scare T tactic um I I you know I'm I'm I I I don't know what to make of that I'm not an attorney but I am certainly happy to investigate uh the propriety of trying to to remove the risk from the township to a homeowner on a town on a piece of Township on property uh in this case a treat um want to thank Mr pulo for his advocacy Miss kleene uh Miss Lando as well um uh with regard to uh Miss hardell and her question uh an email was circulated by our inba um that I expect that we will address in new business uh regarding when the RFA will go out um I think that is it for my comments um Madam clerk can you um reiterate for the administration questions that were posed to them this evening yes um I took a couple of notes uh that I wanted to address I did not take notes on all of the questions um the go ahead no we can start with with what you have okay so I took the liberty of handing out the supplemental debt statement for Bond 2868 d24 um councilwoman Scarpa was correct it was in my office uh nobody asked me for it so I think uh a good practice going forward would be to provideed to the council um and that way there won't be any delay in um at least as far as that's concerned of not voting for a bond uh due to that um they do have it now and I will absolutely get that to you as well council president um I wanted to address uh councilwoman gber Michael um after she had left the uh executive session last week we or on 7:23 um we discussed further there was some talk about uh ending the meeting that night um however on 79 the council was supposed to discuss amendments to the budget um so I wrote to all the department heads and I asked them to keep the agenda light um and then which they did and then we ended up not discussing the amendments to the budget so the department heads sent me their material for 7:23 so the agenda was pretty full um there were a lot of things that need to be addressed and had to be um you know approved that night so it was decided amongst the council members that were there that they would move forward with the agenda um so that's why that took place um and then as far as Miss hardell um the application has been reviewed by the ad Administration the next step is to um advertise it so that's what where we're at right now we're yeah they're we're going to discuss it under new business and that's all I have council president thank you Madame clerk uh Mr smarald uh can you please uh address this uh the the bond issue I'm sorry the timing of yes the bond issue for the streets that are being paved uh now there was some question about the timing of that what what where are we in that process I think if you remember if you remember council president we had some problems last year with the bonds I know that director carbal has been working through a lot of the different uh previous uh projects one example that comes to mind is Ronald terce that I think that was presented early last summer I believe this it is currently that project is ongoing now um and that director carbal is working toward getting a um to start finishing all these projects and and I believe one of the bonds that we put on last last meeting was to help address that because we needed to get these projects started so um she's working on it um and I could um I can ask her for a more detailed report for you but I know that um a lot of these are either being worked on or are being uh funded right now to begin the projects so and we're catching up on them and with regards is the same thing with the Lincoln Avenue um I'm not um too intimate with this particular project because I deal with a lot of projects I know there were some issues out there I know there were some uh questions raised whether um one person or another said whatever from our our um our our department of engineering of as to what what was being said or transpired there I don't have that information I will get that information from you I will have a meeting with director carbal and then provide you with a report for the next meeting or prior to um the regard to the trees itself uh councilwoman Williams asked us right now on page 79 of the budget that was presented by the mayor there's $52,500 allocated for trees and forgive me I forget the what what are the other questions I'm sorry I think that was one of the questions was is the township abiding by its own tree ordinance um as far as I know that is being adhered to um we if there's an ordinance we're supposed to adhere to it um and if if they're not then we're going to have to investigate as to why I I I can't give you that answer right now again I will speak to the director these are some of these projects um you know between her and the director Reynolds we should be able to give you an answer as to why those trees um and we we'll get back to you on that thank you Mr uh smdo just uh for additional uh Clarity or context um in the last round of trees that were removed from Lincoln Avenue I believe at least two of them were marked as healthy I was there that day and they were still taken down uh despite my protest and the two that are slated to be taken down next week are both healthy uh had been marked healthy uh and as far as I understand have not been uh that that status has not changed uh the tree ordinances clear healthy trees can't be removed um and if you know they have to for you know home Improvement uh uh you know that kind of thing then there's a a process that has to uh be followed in order to take them down is my understanding that in both of these instances the last round of tree cutting on Lincoln Avenue and in the proposed round of tree cutting um the healthy trees to have them removed has not been been that process has not been followed and there really isn't much of a of a process for us to follow as a Township we're not going to pay into our own tree fund right so we've got to do everything we can to save these healthy trees and I will also forward to you uh Mr smeraldo um the information that Mr Kip sent to uh me and that I've already forwarded to my colleagues regarding the Alternatives um with regard to Paving and sidewalk installation or replacement that will help save those trees again we need to do everything we can to keep them okay council president any information that that uh Mr Kip has provided to you if you could forward to me that'd be fine I I'm not aware of those reports not I'm not included on every single email so if you could provide them to me so we can look at and I can have a better discussion with our our directors and and see where at and I will I will follow up about these two particular trees tomorrow um and try and give you an answer as to why uh they've been slated for takeown or not why they should not be all right thank you very much sir um does that conclude and I think it does our response to public comment unless we missed the question did we miss any of the questions of the administration seeing none uh that will close public comment um it has been requested that we adjust our agenda to uh deal with the uh to continue our budget Workshop uh I am going to uh uh entertain motion to do exactly that right now and then get back into our budget Workshop I make the motion that we um adjourn our regular meeting and and reopen our budget Workshop second all in favor I any opposed that motion carries for sake of my colleagues if you need a minute break or so uh let's I'm happy to to provide one um let's just recess for just two seconds two minutes rather until you know the the the you know allow folks a bio break and that kind of thing no I just needed them to make motion e e e e e e Mr Fagan please let me know when all the council members have returned to their seats you know I'm unable to see the gallery e e e e e e e e e e e e it's good though are we ready to restart such a headache president will everyone please take their seat and uh the floor is yours council president thank you Mr Fagan um thank you to my colleagues the administration and those that are being patient in the gallery so we are going to go back into our budget Workshop just want to note for the record um you know while I submitted some recommendations and writing this is the first time since I've been on the council that that has been done by any council person um you know I I understand that there's going to be some push back and some level of criticism I knew it was going to happen when I submitted these things uh but I do think it's important that we focus on the task at hand and try to get the budget into shape that we can actually adopt it um and move on to the next major item which you know we have plenty but the capital budget still has to be done this year um so now having said that we were dealing with General Health Services um Mr director fonzo and I do apologize for calling you mis uh director fonzo uh was uh um giving some commentary regarding uh the suggested uh adjustments that I made I'm happy to entertain any uh suggestions from my colleagues but since this is the document we're working from I guess we'll finish this before we entertain anything else [Music] um we were going back and forth over the EIG inspect inspections you know just just for clarity and transparency it is my understanding that based on the testimony provided tonight there's 16 establishments in town that each pay $2,000 per year that's 32,000 and um last year we spent less than ,000 doll on inspections I don't know what has been spent this year uh I don't you know in theend in the grand scheme of things with the budget this size well over a hundred million a $4,400 savings is not going to make a difference by itself although if we do find enough of those it will make a difference so you know just so that we understand clearly and this is not to say that I don't want EIG inspections I have sat next to councilwoman calino now for a year and she has spoken about the importance of those um especially with regard to our children or younger people vaping on countless occasions so I certainly do understand the gravity of the matter but I don't want to allocate money for something that is not being used if we are attempting to get the budget down to a 2% um or less uh proposed increase um so if you could just speak to um your need for additional funding for EIG and then we can move on to the next uh item on the list okay council president thank you um during uh the the um Regular meeting I had an opportunity to to look at this a little more closely and I've determine that um $1,000 will be sufficient enough to get me through the rest this year that's only inspecting the facilities that are currently licensed um that that funding will get me through the rest of the year with the understanding that we wouldn't be able to do anything else is there something else that is needed between now and December well if another facility becomes licensed we have to inspect it so you know I don't know I can't predict that got it so um so that we can go by line I want to offer a motion council president I need to add to this my hand didn't see your hand so sorry Council celino yeah so um recently uh we received um at the downtown some application for a couple of I guess you want to call them bodegas whether they're going to sell them or not I'm not sure if you've been privy to those applications and so from the zoning officer so I'm I'm not sure if they'll be selling them did you well they would have to obviously get a license um I haven't become aware of any yeah we just we just recently got them we were questioning the permitted uses that's why whether so this you may or may not have have something okay I could check into that I don't I don't off the top of my head I'm not sure of any new ones but just a quick question for you so if so if you're so if we limit this if you say somebody does get a license you charge them 2,000 correct and then you it it wouldn't go back to this line item in your budget where would the money go that that's really a question for the CFO I'm I'm not sure how it works you know in terms of sorry can you repeat it so here's here's the situation Mr bonus so um the health director is is receiving a license application of Fe $2,000 but he uses it back to uh pay for the inspector in his budget if we limit him on the number and he does receive say two more stores come through by the end of the year and it's $4,000 now he needs to send this inspector out to take care of that how are you going to be able to accommodate him uh for an amount like $44,000 in a budget like this we would would do a transfer after November 1st okay so you transfer from the revenue side to uh no it would be transferred within the budget if the amount um let's say we budgeted exactly the right amount of money for every single thing and at the end of the in December we got two more stores and we needed $2,000 uh we would have to apply to the state for an emergency and explain to them what had happened that it was unforeseen and we got two new uh properties okay um in a100 million budget the chances of not being able to transfer $2,000 is fairly small um if the number were bigger though um we would have to go the emergency route and the state in in a situation like that the state would approve it okay thank you councilwoman thank you Mr Bono thank you director I'm happy to uh you know add a little bit more just in case and and I think you know it's important that we have some padding in the budget because we can't get the numbers exactly right um if if the amount that I've padded uh initially you know is enough to get you through the end of the year with what you currently have but obviously we can't foresee what will happen with these two new properties um I'm happy to raise it a little bit my recommendation and I'm offering a motion now is that we uh reduce the EIG inspections to $1,500 that would save us $3,900 on this current budget is there a second a second Adam cler yes I'm sorry just no worries taking notes um okay so councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president ruford yes thank you colleagues thank you Mr director fono um I expect there'll be a little bit more conversation on the next item which is yeah delay delay hiring a deputy department head until 2025 which would save us $523 19946 I'm happy to hear um you know you whatever it is you would like us to know Mr uh director F thank you council president um respectfully I understand you know the situation with the budget um but I'm I'm like I said before I'm operating at Bare Bones I have one full-time uh rehs registered Environmental Health Specialists and um one part-time or two days a week doing the work of three full-time inspectors um in order to meet meet the uh Public Health practice standards and the um the other tasks that the health department is responsible for I need to move forward with these hires I can't delay it anymore um delaying it is going to cause hiring problems there's already a a hiring problem with registered Environmental Health Specialists Statewide um they go these candidates go through a a class which they just finished um they're they're going through their internship right now and will be sitting for the state licensing exam in December so I'm looking to try to get these positions filled as soon as possible so that not only do I need the two rs's the deputy department head is crucial to me I'm doing all the administrative oversight rant management and um a lot of other things that come along with it by myself um in my absence there's nobody that can do what I can do as a department head and that's just the facts Miss denova used to be able to do that unfortunately we lost our she's not here anymore um I've been very diligent over the past two or three years in securing over a million dollars in Grants um most of which went to offset salaries um so I I I really ask you um respectfully that you don't cut this out of the out of this budget that we need to get these positions filled and rebuild the health department thank you very happy to hear your testimony director fanino you're impassioned response I see councilwoman celino has her hand up uh councilwoman yeah thank you and thank you Mr fanino I have to Echo his sentiments um losing uh director denova this year also he lost one of his uh his head nurse's retire U Miss iino and you know she was Tas with all you know school year is going to start and what she uh the administrative work that's done with our school district every single P pupil goes through the our health department as well believe it or not so there's a lot of administrative work coming up as well I think you know I'm a little bit confused tonight I I understand the recommendations and you know trying you know and I feel bad for our directors because the last meeting I sat here and I said you know we could have a calculator we had a great thorough discussion of everyone's needs and you know we were adding a ton of money now we talked about recommendations and sending them in I was in the understanding like all the add-ons that everybody wanted to do last week we we were going to discuss now we're taking away to uh to positions here uh for very stretched department and I just cannot support that uh no disrespect at all council president I understand where you're trying to go and where my colleague wants to go with 2% but the sentiments at the last meeting was well we're you know we're at two and a half percent you know this is the year we could go higher and and I I just not getting the messaging but any case um we are um actually Mr Bono if you could do the math for us we covered the garbage expenses already to so that is not going to be an addition to this budget um we also still have how much money uh uh if we want to add anything else and keep it status quo or reduce it where we at if I understand the um the decision so far uh we're adding 240,000 for garbage subtracting 92,000 80,000 in legal roughly 1931 97 for um I'm sorry 921 and 80 is DPW 193 109 97,000 in legal and 3900 in health that gives us a net reduction of uh all the reductions total 466,000 of 227 222 78644 7 I may have made made a mistake but I had 226 687 44 but that is a we're in that same neighborhood so a little bit more a little bit above 220,000 is what we're reducing so far and that's a net number is that correct Mr Bono that's correct the DPW the legal and the health right and then and then I I'll and then again uh I know we have a few other items that we mentioned uh which I have a few notes for but again I know we're on the health department right now and council president I really urge us to stay and uh and leave these two uh positions for our health director thank you councilwoman I'm gonna come to you next councilwoman Gabriel Michael I just want to respond uh quickly uh councilwoman castelino I stated in the in the last budget Workshop that you know while folks are at we're not giving away money we're we want to know what these full needs are um and bring them all to us so we can figure out what we can and cannot do but also have an eye toward what needs to be done next year um and and and I think that's the right way to do it we need to know what's coming down the pike sure to properly prioritize this year and what we keep or remove or add to in in the budget um and there are some additions we'll get to that next um but you know right now we're just dealing with the reductions or the removals um I hope that answers your question councilwoman um councilwoman G Michel oh you're welcome yes I mean I I'm just GNA jump back to Legal just for a moment so hear me out I know we decided to reduce the uh litigation General um to not reduce in keep it at 350 or or is that the amount it's a reduction though because it was five something okay five something reduced to to 350 yes can we instead do 300 because we've spent 245 so it gives about 55 for the next 3 months and then have that 50,000 you know go towards the public health nurse that way we're kind of Shifting funds I would feel more comfortable doing that um V on I understand I'm asking if we can call for another vote can I make a motion to vote again on the red are we allowed to do switch from line item to line reason why I'm doing that so that we can get back to this I understand I just don't know if it's allowed that's the only okay we can find out so so if I can jump in for just a second I'll keep resp um so I I think if I understand the councilwoman correctly she would like to offer another amendment that Amendment would amend a prior Amendment tonight and I think that's what the clerk is questioning can we amend a prior amendment is that what your questioning C uh cler madam no what I'm questioning is it's it's a particular line item so can you reduce one L one line item to four votes to add back into the bu neither one of these would be adding right these would still be subtracting so can we the vote well we already voted so you the vote like we typically have done can we resend the vote but again this is again litigation to go back to that point and respectfully councilwoman so litigation and unless Mr jener we going to close session we could talk about what cases are out there I I again I'm gonna I won't support that only because I don't know what I don't know so I don't want to we already reduced it by $150,000 and if we know we have cases out there they're out there right now so so what was uh stated councilwoman uh in the number that was presented and I can't recall what it was I think it was I can't remember so I won't even say but the number that was quoted to us included what had already been spent and what we know is going to be spent on these current cases no it's not paid yet councilman it's it it hasn't been paid the bill hasn't it's in the works it hasn't been that's exactly what I just said what is going to be it hasn't been spent yet but there still may be other bills we know there's going to be other bills that's why we need something else there next right but this is what has been build even if it hasn't already been paid through this moment um I so the number is the number right we can figure out whether or not we will as a three if there are three of us to to support bringing it down to 300,000 or not but the question is on procedure uh Mr smeraldo can you weigh in on that the procedure I I believe um is that that line item is that item I I understand what councilwoman gabber Michael is trying to do she's trying to say let's you know we're trying to balance out the budget itself so you're balancing off each other we can't transfer that money from one to another that my understanding so uh one thing I do want to offer is that this budget was sent to the council back in April or May this is a $52,000 salary that you're looking at and a 47 respectively well it's August you're not going to be spending that entire amount for this year so so I think we if we're looking to help with that saving we we you know if we're creating that position it may be a way of trying to calculate what that actual number is for the remainder of the year because let's face it as the Director said if we have another month we only have three months of funding this position it's next year where we're going to have to worry about funding it completely so that may be a way of helping out the department while also helping out this budget and it's just than you Mr smal something to consider idea so that's just just a way that we could because I will tell you that director Fon Zino U he he doesn't pull his hair as much as I do it's obvious um but his is greater than mine so so and and he does he does do a lot and in taking account he also runs the transportation division um I've seen that he's lost approximately five people in the last year and a half that we haven't replaced he's struggling um and as to whatever uh you feel is enough to help him out and what he's requesting I ask that you make want to consider that just to help him out with his his positions well it's one of the reasons why and sorry council president well I mean we're in the debate so just so because it's to piggy back off of my comment and my question is is for that reason to help him because I know the hard work that you do director Fano I know that you're a short St on the Skeleton Crew so we can make this happen for you but you know if we can go back and resend it and take that 50,000 ad then I do your suggestion Mr Shalo of just adjusting the numbers to reflect the three months versus the whole year because the year is almost gone I I could I could fair so you know not don't go ahead director no I was saying that that would work this way we're not delaying the hiring process we get these positions in place um that that would be a tremendous help to me thank you director I I think all of us want to want to be helpful we don't want hurt the department especially in a year like this when we know we don't get these kind of years all the time um I think of to Mr smdo Point Mr gross uh calculated this number at 40% of the full year cost is isn't that is that correct yes this is already reduced from the salary I I can't answer that I really don't know that answer I'm looking at the I'm looking at the salary that um in the in the budget and from when it was submitted from 46 2024 that is the amount of money so I'm assuming that that may be more like closer to 60% um but I I don't know I can't say for certainty um yeah I I believe it's 40 but I'm not 100% sure um let me just see something real quick yeah so I think it's about 40% which is roughly five months a little bit less than five months um and we're looking at probably three months just for clarity what the councilwoman uh was requesting was not to move money from one line item to another but to change the amount that was in one line item yes so that when we got to the next line item and and decided not to change it it would not affect the overall number it's not taking it from one group and put it in another it's just attempting to balance the budget thank you council president absolutely um so um I hear your impassion plea you've got 995 roughly um between those two positions and let me just give you the rationale for the one I I figured if we went through the process and hired one now my request of our new CFO was to get started on our 2025 budget before the end of the year preferably in October um so that we could be ready to go by the end of January uh whoever the council president is next year I'm sure would certainly appreciate it uh and then we wouldn't miss any of the March or April deadlines that we blew through this year um which would then only give you roughly six months before your second hire it would be you know one nurse now and then one another one in in six months uh because again in the document it says delay hiring them until 2025 so that time frame is still not acceptable I I'm I'm I'd like to know um if you know if it is acceptable then great but if it's not acceptable we certainly don't want to put you at a disadvantage okay council president let me just clarify for the record um these are not nurses these are registered Environmental Health Specialists um they have to have a state license to do the job um my concern with delaying is that we're going to lose candidates um there's a lot of GRS out there a lot of Health departments are using these grants to fund these positions the candidates are going to be slim to none if we don't act on it now and and how long have these two positions been vacon um the one uh was a recently uh recently resigned within the past month um the other one has been um just about a year so we've been struggling and council president as a Side Story we did interiew we conducted interviews we had a conditional offer presented to the gentleman and he uh one of the people who helped us to the interview not knowingly they had a position no he applied for that one too he decided to accept that position for the person who we used to help us interview for her position and she recommended we hire this person so it was kind of like wait a minute so we lost we just lost out because he was more passionate about where he where she had worked it was nothing to do with us just that that was the type of work he wanted to do so it's we're really struggling to try and get these appointments councilwoman Williams thank you council president I would just like to recommend that we uh give uh director fan Zeno these two hires that he is desperately advocating for I I don't think that it will substantially reduce the budget we're talking about the last quarter of the year and that's my recommendation thank you councilwoman gber Michael can someone on the administration I don't remember if I got an actual answer to my question about resending my vote for the legal department just resending and then going back to that line again I think you could just offer a further amendment I think you could offer an amendment and it would have to be voted on is that not correct it's the cleanest way to do this I guess so that way why do we have take money from any where else this is already in the budget this is already in the budget she's talking about legal so I don't know the answer right now I can obviously look into it hopefully get you an answer soon but I don't know the answer off the top of my head I'm going to offer a motion that we amend um let me go back to it that we amend uh litigation General uh to $300,000 second is is that allowed I thought he was going to look into it he just said's not if it's not allowed he'll come back and he'll let us know and we'll put it back at 350 He he'll come back and let us but not today though oh I thought he said another then I misunderstood sorry Mr no I I don't know that I'm gonna be able to find an answer within the next three hours four hours before we get out of here I I got to look into it this isn't going to be a quick Google can I do a re Amendment this is going to take some research so I'm I'm a little confused we are once we make an amendment on a budget I Mr Bono well I don't think we're gonna be voting for this budget anyway tonight Mr Bono has his hand up council president uh yeah I just called on I don't know if you guys can you guys hear me okay uh yeah um just uh if I can put my two cents in on the legal um I mentioned before that we spent over 800,000 last last year and we're talking about budgeting I guess three four 500,000 less uh I really question whether or not the state will even let us adopt with a drop like that unless we have a um a you know some good numbers that we can uh show that we're not going to spend the money on this litigation um so so that's my first thought uh my second thought is um maybe take a little little bit of thought of going a different direction ction um budget is a plan um if you budget the money and you don't spend it you get the money back you haven't taken it away from anybody and if you want to get to the tax rate use a little more Surplus keep your plan in place because you have something called a budget cap you're up against every year that the state of New Jersey has imposed upon all municipalities and that budget cap says you can only go up by a certain amount and if you do the co ordinance you can go up a little more but if you cut all this out you'll never be able to get it back except through the cap Bank um so uh rather than going line by line and cutting this thing down and maybe tying your hands next year um possibly think about whether another approach would make more sense thank you Mr Bono um that still doesn't answer the question whether or not you can amend a line that has already been amended uh you know I I I I don't know if you can do it in the same meeting or at a subsequent meeting or what the time frames are if they're allowed do you know that okay the the attorney's working on that okay all right so we can hold off on that for now I think can can I resend my uh motion uh Madam clerk bad situation I'm going to revisit it before this meeting is over but I want to resend my motion okay um all right and then with regard to um two line items we'll take them one at a time uh Deputy department head um well we have to vote if we're not changing anything right well I'm still going to recommend a reduction there because we're not dealing with the same amount of time even if we were dealing with the 40% that's 4.8 months we're still looking at uh three months so can I make can I walk again I'm sorry can you see my Council yes so again we look back at the inspectors for the health department last time and I thought we'd be offering another inspector so I would recommend leave it and if he needs to add on hours to the inspectors you know we have a lot of new buildings that are going to be opening up he's have a lot of in E is that what you're talking about no no no no so what I'm saying he he so he comes into where he's short he has a little cushion here in his Department I I hear what you're saying you're trying to get this down to the penny because you want to spend it somewhere else at the end of the day I I would I highly recommend we leave his two positions as are as is now that I thought about it for a second he may you may move a couple dollars somewhere else but he could use that for his other items like the Jitney senior Jitney everybody wants him to book trips so he can move that money if he doesn't use it I'm fine with that councilwoman C know I'm fine yeah Council scar I'm fine with that too thank you perfect all right then we can move on thank you very much director great thank thank you for your uh your support and your consideration I greatly appreciate it thank you director absolutely sir thank you now you could sleep tonight [Laughter] all right so um what is the number again was it I I I did it on my calculator and I didn't write it down we're plus 222 78644 cents but who's got yeah 222 786 44 all right that's the additional savings we found so far yes are there any other reductions or removals that my colleagues would like to amend or enter into the budget uh I just I just no not removals but it we had some additions that we talked about last time I didn't know where you were at you know well let we we'll get to those but before we get to the additions any other any other reductions uh by anyone on the council or removals no being none now we can get into additions I'm happy to entertain uh councilwoman castelino and any of your additions before we get back to the doc so well these were these were additions we all talked about last time so they're not mine they're you know group discussion that we had last time so I just wanted to see where the appetite was for a few of them um one was in the recreation department uh Mr Kio gave us a list of items that totaled 87 ,000 um the two that I see that um he had advocated for um well he he was looking for the uh disabled program uh and then Mr Juan pado and now I'm a little confused on that one was that already in there the line 109 9101 what page are you on what category this was 9101 let's see creation I wrote it on the remember they gave us those additional papers I didn't write it in the book that's why I thought you were keeping track and giving us on the list so I apologize um well what I I did keep good notes of what people requested yeah um I will tell you I was not in support of all of those requests I just didn't share it in real time when I was in support of I didn't want to hamper anyone that would come before us later from telling us you know everything that they wanted so at least we have an idea of what's going forward or what's coming down the pike um so um let's see we were looking at yeah I'm not in support of any more additions either given that so there were two people that aren't in support of additions I councilman Scarpa yeah I'm not in support of any more additions if because I want this down to 2% okay I'm one of his was the fourth of Ju because they moved to a new program and they they wound up spending they he needed 6734 77 he was looking for 42 for the 4th of July event and for the his one uh employee um he was looking for 4,000 increase I got to find it in the book I'll let you know that's the uniquely gifted program director well that was yeah that was he was looking for that too so those were the needs for for the rec department that he stressed he he needed I just want to see if the one one is already in here because remember we had conversations no that one's not these are all additional Okay add those all right he wanted 88,200 to keep Pace with inflation that was this is back on Parks and red wanted 8200 to keep place with keep Pace with inflation he wanted an additional according to my notes uh 2250 for the 4th of July yes uh and he said he wanted or no 6734 for 4th of July and 4,000 for the one employee um I've got a total from him of $ 87,3 19177 since I'm not sure I can uh support that I don't I would love to hear how my colleagues feel yeah I can't support that either well not the whole total but there's [Music] some so let me go down this there was the ospac increase of 8200 the mayor program of 19,000 increased that too the senior golf program 8,000 the one employee 4,000 to move them up of job title uh the job job title description uh oh then there was another item for the mayor's program 41657 and then the 4th of July celebration for 67 3477 I mean I'm willing to to increase his budget by 10,000 to give him a little cushion to do a couple of things but not that he's going to be able to do much I'm not I mean I would be open to giving the employee the raise and you know putting them into the different title I think that's important and the rest we just wait till next year and see where we are financially some these inre I can only I can only support the increased position for the employee I think um yeah that's and it's unfortunate and I want to be very clear that it is not not a slight against any of our directors but again we had a very challenging budget last year we came in at almost 16% increase we were able as a collective body to get it down to 5% and this year the Administration has kept that in mind and only given us a 2.45% increase yeah we have now added some additional costs with our garbage again um so I just feel that as much as I want our departments to be successful I think with employees and making sure employees get the right bump because they are hardworking is something that I can justify absolutely but anything else I mean it's no different guys I have to look at my budget at home and I have to say everything cost more and if I'm only making the same amount of money or I only have this to allocate then I have to make some sacrifices and this is the same thing that we have to do as a community and I understand Parks and Recreation it is for the community but at the end of the day this is the bill is incurred by every last one of our residents and taxpayers so we just got to be a little a little more conservative sure and again the the directors and fairness to them this you know they walked in under the guise of let us know your needs and this is what they presented above and beyond the budget so I I hear you I think that's a fair practice to find out everything they need because because you should ask for everything you need everything but at the end of the day we unfortunately have to make some of those hard decision and and we didn't account for garbage you know we didn't know which option we were going with and you know it didn't account for it okay well again so so the $4,000 the only the only thing I'm gonna advocate for and I don't know what the director's gonna do he's gonna to figure out how to pay the increase for the 4th of July um because the residents um you know we we moved away from the fireworks and presented them with a new Option uh you know it just have to defer to admin ation how they'll get that taken care of because it was successful event and there's usually Surplus in the budget for the $4,000 I second I second okay okay councilwoman celino wait wait before we get there I'm sorry I wanted to clarify something that was included in this analysis so yes the garbage was increased we've we've now accounted for that at $240,000 that was the increase what we did not discuss was the savings we get for not having to purchase the carts the carts were 2.3 million it's going to cost us roughly 250,000 per year we're not going to have to pay that that's Debt Service we are not going to have to pay because we are not going because we are not going to purchase those carts yeah that's a great point in addition to that we just cut out another 222,000 out of the existing budget that had that 2.47% increase so just a quick back of the napkin calculation we're already we're already almost a half a million dollars less than we would have been had we made no changes but do we have clarification council president I guess Mr Bon you have to find out if the 60,000 per year savings for the garbage does that also include the money we're saving for the bond payment so is that six it has nothing it has nothing that's just the contract contractual cost oh that's so that's great then so what is that number that we're saving for not having to make that Bond did we have the two million in there didn't even put it in there I asked what the caning CS were yeah nobody knew that was completely separate it was never F carts the carts I don't think the C the carts were never in no because because we presented the carts in on a first reading back in April I think it was and and you you tabled it yes so we didn't so the carts you never budgeted into the bud CS wouldn't be in this budget because they're not in the debt service we did not take out the debt service but by changing our option we and we're going right into the capital budget which is where those carts would have been by changing that option we know we're going to save at least you know a quarter million dollars on that side that's money that still have to be paid it would just have to be paid on Capital versus operating no that's that's apples and oranges exactly it's not apples and oranges it's dollars let's work with this budget okay so so we're okay's I'm sorry just I want to make before you motion I just want to make sure um um under the recreation that was that $4,000 was for one individual not for the special needs program or anything like that corre okay I just want to clarify that yeah okay and just so we're clear Mr uh Kio also uh advocated very strongly for the senior golf program which if I recall his his uh testimony it is uh sold out uh they just have they literally are at capacity so it's clearly something that is that is very very helpful now that doesn't necessarily fall under Senior Services but it absolutely does serve our seniors um so just want to make sure that we're aware of that as well and I think he wanted uh I could be wrong but I think it's about $8,000 that he wanted that's why my original recommend was 10,000 and let him figure out how he wants to distribute it well if you were to look at the golf and the and the employee you're looking at about 12,000 gol a little less I know I didn't have the votes for 12 so I went for 10 i i i would support 12,000 I'm not gonna support 87,000 but I could support 12,000 for parks and red not not when we're not if we're gonna if we're gonna add we adding we have to we have to that's my rationale for not adding because I don't want to pick and choose who gets added to if we're GNA add then we need to add equitably and and across the board so I don't want to just add to one department and then not take into consideration other department requests understand councilwoman I think uh Equity is not always doing the same thing for everybody I understand but that that's opinion I don't have to have a rebuttal to my opinion I just put my opinion on the record and I'm allowed to respond as a council person as well I just think Equity is not always doing the same thing for every Department um but councilwoman castelino I would absolutely support 12,000 I'm not going to support 87 okay so let let's vote on the four and then I'm gonna make a recommendation can we be sure it's going to be used for that golf senior golf program yes it's the line item okay as long as we know that that's what it's going to be used for not something so then take them one at a time councilwoman so that we can be clear with your motion take them one at a time so we can be clear what they are for yeah line 9101 we have a motion on the floor yeah I already made that motion for no I made a motion motion for uh the person the increase of $4,000 so we need to vote four Personnel right for H correct four personel absolutely yeah to increase uh Council woman celino yes councilwoman gper Michel councilwoman s councilwoman Williams council president reord yes motion carries right then I'll make a motion for the uh program Senior Golf uh line 208 on page 112 a motion of what that's the one for 8,000 he need second okay so there's no money currently in that line item no there is there's more there's how much is 5721 there're already 57,000 no no $5,700 and he said he has seniors closed out of it is that why he needs more it's very popular yeah so so are we turning seniors away for that well he no he's he's doing less events he gave he gave very I mean of all those programs was everybody listening to I think the two that he advocated the most for were Senior Golf actually I he did mention the mayor's program for the uniquely gifted but Fourth of July I felt at least from my notes and and and Senior Golf were the two that he advocated the most for yeah I have to say too our seniors are underserved and they're 20 almost 20% of our population so I could support that so y councilwoman gber mik thank you council president I just I want to Echo uh councilwoman William sentiments you know we're sitting here to stop because you know obviously we care about our seniors we want them to be able to do programs but we H but she's right we have to be you know Fair across the board you know if we're going to increase money for the senior golf program then why aren't we doing it for any of the other programs so you know it's going to kill me to have to vote no but it's it's just it's a matter of principle but I do love my seniors and we we love our seniors and we we support the the programming that sen your department does um and and parks department but maybe of your salary yeah like I I just don't think it's fair that we're going to give money toward one program we're picking and choosing and favoring over any of the other ones um either there were two others that I was going to recommend minor increases for as well so it's then so now it's either we do all of them I really think we should either do all of them or we don't do any of them to be honest not all of them needed though councilwoman to your point so a couple of years ago we significantly increased funding for um aspac and um and what was the other one Council Cino two years before well we moved money around like we're doing now we did OAC uh we we gave and downtown downtown people didn't meet the requirement to receive those yes I say that wasn't just us moving money around that was a a derel and duty of the awarding people they were supposed to turn in paperwork to identify what they had done yes that is corre and that is why we did not award that money programs they were underfunded programs I am clear on that but I just want the public to be clear on why that money was moved that wasn't moved because it was adding money to the budget that was money that was already allocated in the budget but and that's and that's what this exercise here so just so everyone knows that that that is coming in late to this conversation what we've been doing we started at 5:30 tonight uh earlier and uh worked on it for an hour we're we're back at it with our Workshop so we had uh made a decision to keep the con Garbage Contract uh status quo and that was going to add $240,000 to this budget and then uh with the due diligence that we've been doing and thanks uh council president made some recommendation and my uh other colleagues uh we now uh are at with a deduction of where we were at with the budget 22278 so now we're looking at um taking that and so we we what we passed on first reading less 222,000 not that we're looking to come even but if we could help out a three I I want to call it maybe a three four year plan that the department heads gave us that they needed to add to their departments I guess that's what we're kind of doing here see what we could give them this year and hopefully next year when some revenues kick into the township we'll be able to help them out a little bit more right so councilman what I what I think is important I I do recognize the where the $40,000 came from to allocate to ASAC and downtown Alliance it's still money we could have decided not to allocate at all and save we allocated it to support programs in town I didn't think that was particularly fair I had wanted to allocate some additional money to a basketball program that year I didn't have the votes it just that's how it worked out next year there may be different programs that uh get get additional funding um you can't do everything every single year and and that's just not a fair way to or I think a prudent way to approach the budget process so far even including the additional money for personnel in parks and wreck we have still saved $218,700 and that's totally fine but I do think given that we have a few more items to go through I think we should move through this so if it's if it's okay we can let our votes speak for ourselves um I think the motion was offered and seconded for the 8,000 for the senior golf I recognize we may not all all vote for it but Madame clerk uh please call for I call for the vote okay uh councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael I'm sorry what is this for this is for the increase of $8,000 for the senior golf are we going to increase all of them or no no we're gonna increase some this year and some next year the year after that I'm sorry it's all now or not at all we can't yeah we're never gonna have a year where we can do all of them that'll never happen yeah that won't happen councilwoman Scarpa yes they're under served councilwoman Williams no council president Rutherford yes okay the motion fails okay what's next in is there something else in parks and wreck uh councilwoman cast uh well no we went over all those other ones that I mentioned um the next one would be the um and this I got to go back and look there was administrative clerk position in the um engineering department engineering department I've got that one on my doc to okay you have that already okay yeah council president excuse me if I can interrupt um just to go back to your sheet um I did send everybody the municipal prosecutors I don't know if that was addressed or not it not um so just to let you know looking at the budget and looking at the resolution um the gentleman who is our prosecutor was hired to at $1,000 a week from March 12th which is 40 approximately $42,000 and when I looked into the item in the budget U just give me one sec it's um I think it I think we budgeted was it 43,000 I think it's we had 43,000 so it's pretty close to that at $1,000 a week so um it that number it's already been budgeted on page I believe it's page eight of the budget so and that's and I did send you the resolution um you do have a copy of you should have had it in your inbox so for whatever reason my email oh no it just came back up um but I don't have that in that in my inbox okay well I think the other council members say can see it so but it's it is $1,000 a week so from March 12th that's 42 weeks that's $42,000 my simple math um it's just a difference of ,000 you know thousand something or other you know understood we we don't have to revisit that I I um okay I just wanted to make sure we covered it and you had you had the do supporting documentation you requested thank you sir to the next line item if we cannot say names we're not supposed to yeah we didn't say name I just said Pro we get to the next okay yeah we don't we just for the record we don't we don't name Personnel we just we say the position not the person the person the position is not listed here which is why making sure we're clear that we don't say that person's name and that we identify them by position okay anything else councilwoman castelino uh before I'll I'll I'll defer for now because I I I just realize uh our director here for our senior services department so I'm not sure if we have any questions for her um like to get her out of here so I apologize I didn't see you move to that side to just now so do you want to go uh okay so anything related to her so she wants to you know go home that well there is a request I will will say uh without mentioning the name there was a request for additional compensation for one of her employees it would have been raised from I think uh two or $3,000 I can't remember what the name the number was up to 5,000 um there has been some discussion amongst the administration about um doing something different to uh retain and reward that employee that does not involve additional compensation uh involves a title change a lateral move uh into a position that has a different salary range um that has been communicated to me uh directly by Mr moraldo and I think he got it directly from the mayor so council president just to clarify I believe that that person was were looking initially in the budget to to give them to Pro promote them to the clerk to position based on the re recommendation you made what we discussed was that we would look to help in in order to further that we would look at a lateral transfer so I would say that I believe that this position was already in for a clerk 2 which would be equal and competitive to our other clerk twos that we're looking to promote and I would recommend it because it would probably make it easier for the promotion under Civil Service laws so and I believe that step is $2,800 or something like that so it's not the full 5,000 but we can we can look to certainly um do that promotion in the very near future too so um let me just is there something we need to do tonight to accommodate that well I I I believe it's and I I believe that the keyboarding clerk 2 was already requested for that individual looking for it so I would say that we at least at you know honor that request that was in there and then we look at the other options to for the promotion so at least we have that in there for that person they don't have to wait for the promotion it would actually make sense for us from a civil service standpoint as well thank you uh Mr moraldo uh is the director here yes yes would she I'd like to invite her to comment if she has any on this uh particular suggestion And to clarify um council president while she's coming to the podium it is for keyboarding clerk 2 at a at a promotion rate of 2813 and that's 2813 above what was already included in the budget for that individual the the yeah it was 2813 above her salary now her current salary and it would be that would be a promotion which helps us with u promoting her um within the Civil Service a lot easier we we're we I think I explained that we're doing that in another department also as well to help another one of our our employ is doing a great job that we're looking to get her into a new position the following year based on having um the clerk to in their in their um in their workf portfolio but in in our budget they're included uh some additional funding for that particular employee I am trying to find it but I'm it's on page it's on page 104 yeah but I I've got the one that is cut off so I don't even have page numbers on mine okay um how far far away toward it's toward it's about probably about 70% down the document it's um tired Citizens senior Healthcare it's near the parks department budget before parks department yeah right before Parks okay pass parks and playground garbage yeah for you before it I mean I'm sorry okay yep I'm getting to it now see retired citizens yep and turn the page you see all right so there was I'm I'm I'm missing two columns on mine this is the one that was printed on on regular uh paper not on legal uh and I am not looking at the digital copy um there to from what I understand there is is there this this person is making 57,5 um at a current title as a keyboarding clerk one and the second and the the recommendation is to promote this person to keyboarding clerk 2 at an additional rate of 2813 and is there any additional compensation in the budget for that particular employee not that I see at this point no no unless and the director here they answer questions I think there's just 1,000 in overtime I was going to say can you can can can that person receive overtime yes so you could budget that and put in overtime yes well that would have to go among the entire department though is that correct well you just no it's just for one person it's just really for one person got it one person would be eligible so you could and what what are your what are your thoughts on director I said just one person would be eligible so if you know as um Mr smala said to um honor what was in the the budget what was proposed and then um look to receive and work use the overtime and then can I just clarify so we're gonna promote which is you guys right and then we're going to use the funds in the overtime and instead of doing anything additional I wasn't hearing it instead I was hear I was thinking that in addition in addition in addition so that's what I wanted to clarify in addition she she would be the only person eligible in that department so therefore the ,000 dollar is for her to earn if she if she works it do we know she already does do we know that she is working for sure I'm pretty sure we burned through oh yes so seriously my question becomes so she has been working overtime and not been compensated right only with comp time not with with not with not financially just with time time off yes yeah so that's very helpful that was clar clarified the last time I was here and that change is very helpful um because you know there's a lot of opportunities to work out you know sure lot tons of Opp we really you know so that's been that's been a very helpful option so I'm I'm certain that will continue you but I do I would really appreciate the opportunity to look at another job title right so to solve the matter tonight and do you know go with the recommended the recommend as I explained in the other department we we're looking uh one person who's going to in the building department get them to be the assistant to the the construction official in order to do that without opening up the title to anybody because we'd have to advertise and then it becomes an open competitive job if we we promote them twice then we can then we can promote them into that position without having to advertise but if we if they remain at the entry level position then we have to it's an open and competitive exam and then that person may get bumped who you know we we we put in the time energy and we value these employees that we're talking about because they're doing a fantastic job so absolutely thank you so Director Van dijke is that accept that's acceptable to you the keyboard clerk to and the ability for you to allocate the overtime as needed I think so and then again just we'll be looking to yeah Mo but that would be for next year's budget we would have to do that because they have to spend time in that grade and that that would be the plan to move forward yes which which by the way is what we've talked about with some of our employees that we're gonna be looking for in the future so yeah we want to promote from within right we're looking to promote within and and Elevate our people to the positions get preparing for the future absolutely so excuse me c president I I just want to clarify so what we're going to do here is because it's already in the budget that c keyboarding clerk two we're just going to change the line item for the overtime from 1,000 to 5,000 is that what we're doing here no we're gonna Elevate the person yeah we're just gonna leave that alone we're gonna leave an attack We're Not Gonna We're not gonna try and do this other nothing we're not doing anything we're not doing anything the status quo is it right now there's there's nothing else we need to do just going to leave it as present okay no because there's a request here for additional compensation for that's she didn't know she could use overtime she was just told at the last budget hearing that she could actually be using overtime to compensate that's why I requested um clarification for that and I get that but there's also on this paper that council president has for extra $5,000 that's a whole different thing that's not the IDE that well no no that is just correct me if I'm wrong director correct me if I'm wrong the director I think asked for a $5,000 for this we don't and I don't think it was realized one at a time there was already this this U promotion in there plus the ,000 that that equals almost $4,000 between the so it's close to the range and then we can we can discuss we and we did discuss about looking for another salary and title or title I should say to which would change the salary that correct yes that's the ultimate goal right so we we we agreed on that to do that so we're already on to the next the budg and then the other question on that was uh engineering no no no no no for for the this director with council president uh the other abilities coordinator uh that so again I got to understand because I know we originally when we got the the survey we got the grants we were able to put the her the position in right which was always a part-time position always right okay so where are we so let me just clarify it's actually in the budget for this year so we have 10,000 Grant this year and then and then the township is has allotted for the additional funds for that so yes my POS position on that again I'm I'm my wish list and my passion is particularly thinking for next year how important it is to substain keep that position which just which then means the township has to pay the additional 10 that this year was um given additional funding from partners for health for that okay and then because and just so I I I say it every time we talk about this position by having this position even though it's only part-time the position itself enables us to be eligible for additional partners for Health Grants as long as they're still offering them so right and meeting Our obligation to them for our commitment once we got the grant um a couple years ago that we would be okay so you're good with this just as it is council president were you had any other thought process with this or you position yeah so I do appreciate the back for fulltime positions right now that's that's not how that works that's so act the director no we're not looking for a full-time position for her it's a part-time which is what she is now 25 hours a week okay yeah so nothing's changing there other than the fact that we had this seed money from partners for health that we will not have next year which is $10,000 so just to really be thinking about the importance of that and to just again use this moment to highlight the shifting population in 10 years it's projected we have more older adults than kids under 18 so we want to really be so are we saying we're not going to get another Grant to fund her yeah that was just a kind of a a nice uh helpful piece from Partners to help us sort of pick up where we said we would be um that was an additional funding we never expected and then they um because we didn't continue with the position as we had said we would and um when we were regrouping with them uh they agreed to provide an additional 10 as we came back to the council here for for approval last year so are we GNA get more funding well in different in different capacities I think they would welcome to work with West Orange yeah they would they look forward to doing that um not necessarily in this position but but the senior service department so so so Laura Noelia has done made great STDs and even when Dorothy Sanders was here I'm sure Olive's gonna pick up oh gonna pick up on that position is is that what we we stay eligible to keep receiving these grants and we they build a relationship with partners for health which gives them hopefully more opportunity but we don't have a magic you know crystal ball so we don't know when the grants are going to come up they're more than likely right now as long as their fundings there they're pretty much yearly we've been pretty productive with getting them but again we don't know we don't know but by having this position stabilized it it helps us to secure other opportunities so um what I think two two things um making permanent does not mean Mak fulltime no and what we were trying to do at least with this second position was prepare which is why and I wasn't sure what my notes said um and I didn't have access to uh I didn't have easy access to email uh so I wasn't sure what the impact would be and and that's probably why because the impact isn't until next year but the grant that is uh currently providing $10,000 for this position we will not get next year that is my understanding we may get others but we will not get that one so we need to be prepared and I and I think the reason and I don't know the director can can speak to this but I do recall when a former employee abruptly had to vacate the position because the grant ran out and there was no money in the budget to keep that person on um that was one of the names that councilwoman calino mentioned a moment ago but we shouldn't be mentioning names um and that's been in my tenure so we don't want to get in that position again if we know that the grant is going to be discontinued yeah we need to be thinking about adding that to the budget now um so and the reason I added the other employee the first one that we talked about is I was unclear of what was going on behind the scenes we Mr gross told us directly we could not just do 5,000 in additional compensation the point of having that in here was to make sure that we discussed this particular position so that we do whatever we can do uh it is not possible for us to do 5,000 in additional compensation for one employee we would have to revisit every single employee that is classified uh with the same title as that particular employee which is not something we would be able to do so the purpose for having it in here was to discuss um and make sure that we we honored the the the wishes or the recommendations or at least investigated those of the senior services department councilwoman calino so the only other item with senior services that I have in my notes was more about programming I know the director didn't mention it but we talked about it I know uh Council Scarpa with her committee um always needing additional funding we talked about a very minimal amount so we prepared to make an amendment for that this evening think we could add anything till we get well I'm just asking I'm just going by the anything please one at a time Council Miss Scarpa one at a time yeah so I'm I'm fine I just you know I'm just going by our notes from the last session that we had where everybody seemed to want to do that I'm just putting it back back out there to see where like to take it from some yeah that that's that's fine I just wanted to go over our notes that's all thank you council president that's all I had thank you councilwoman so um Miss van d m Director Van djk sorry um was there uh a request for specific programming no from the standpoint that the mayor had already put in an increase in our so the recommended mayor's budget had an increase for programming right excellent thank you very much uh director any other questions for uh director VY seeing none thank you very much thank you all very much I really appreciate it thank you so so now we can get to the point uh councilwoman you were bringing up just a moment ago with regard to the engineering department bless God bless you uh there was a request to promote an administrative analyst and that would have an impact on the budget of $2,680 uh any questions or comments on that from my colleagues before we uh see if we're going to do something yeah so this just a salary recomendation word can you please use your mic what was the question councilwoman this was she asked if there I could not hear councilwoman Williams question it's okay all right then we're not gonna answer the question either gonna let me know what the question is or we're not gonna have it answer uh I'm trying to councilwoman castelino please do not answer a question that I don't know what the question is is I'm I'm just looking talking to myself I'm sorry that's all right so what has been asked is a a promotion for an administrative analyst the impact on the budget would be 2680 that is in the engineering department um that would take four votes to approve are there any other questions on that particular position no can I make a motion I'm sorry raise my hand absolutely just to move this along I make a motion to give the additional 2680 promotional um increase to the administrative assist analysts in the engineering department I second second councilwoman castelino uh yes councilwoman gber Michaels councilwoman Sara councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes motion carries thank you um I have two other additions that add up to $1,000 $500 for excuse me council president can we stay on engineering for a second because I'm just going by these because you had there was another one so that was that was you just did I'm sorry I'm just pointing I don't want to say the name we did that one but there was also this one is that one in the budget or not in the budget send that that way because we had committed to the engineer for this other one I just or which other what what is the title position it's it's for the position of administrative clerk one for 180000 to find if that's that would be aot keyboard and clerk 3 to administra is it in the budget already I'm looking at page 75 it is in there yes it is here okay so then we can move on okay let's go well with there I'm just I think I think the recommendation was 74 and 75 I thought there was only one person that she asked for more money for well no she had other recommendations too but I don't think we're g to go there tonight but salary and then the other recommendation for her when we were talking about the trees um where I'm not sure if it if that's in here or It Go I already mentioned that that's $52,000 52 she wanted more money for the tree planting the engineer now can I ask a question um Mr schalo yes when in my notes uh from the DPW testimony there was uh 9 and I'm I'm missing it just give me one second let me find it page 79 I think council president maybe he doesn't have his um oh okay yeah not that one um hold on one second I do have it [Music] um it said that uh there's 90,000 under shade tree that could be reduced what what what is that that was from the DPW testimony I think that was um 90,000 I saw here the only the only 90,000 I see here is for the forest of course there's 90,000 that so I am not able to digitally search try to get to DP excuse me council president so I think to we had discussion with this the trees was budgeted for 52 five last year we only planted $3,300 worth I I don't know why we had asked that they do we carry over well you can't carry over but you could I would recommend I mean um again this is hard to do to to I would keep this the same but we need to spend it so we know how much more we need for next year we only have three you only plant so much come September because then it's going to be they're going to die because they're going to freeze we don't need more so yeah so this year I think we're good with that yeah I think we're good with that we just have to make sure that we're planting I mean what I don't understand yeah we only have a few more months right well we definitely need to plan them um we only have a few more months but I I how so Mr Smo how can we make sure that that money is allocated toward the planting of trees the 52,000 I I'll speak to the directors about that make sure um because I I believe Mr Kip actually reports in the budget under uh Mr Reynolds but you know with the engineering they work kind of hand inand especially when we're talking the different projects um with the previous uh capital projects with the roads I I believe we need that because I know that director Calo is now in her in her applications is including Tre Tre to be included with any Capital Road Improvement job that's been her practice good so I I I Now understand what the note was regarding the shade tree so I mean uh yeah under shade tree which is uh section 7 or count 7202 we have the township Forester at 990,000 was budgeted right 95 was $95 was spent and I thought answer and I'm again I don't have good notes on this uh is that he is is his salary not under Township Forester is it under something else I'm gonna take a look real quick I'll get you an answer in a moment thank you because I if if his salary is under something else then we should you know get rid of that 990,000 as long as these salaries count it's under the it's under the DPW um uh Public Work salary wage I if I remember right um there was something to with that 990,000 I don't know if it was to was that was that a typo I don't remember I don't remember if we put it as a typo or that was actually used for for the Forester to do other jobs I I don't I honestly don't recall I can um but I don't know I don't I really don't know and I don't want to get speculate I'll see if I can I can um to the director see if I can get a hold of either one of them because I want to revisit that before we close out I'll see if I can get a hold of them yeah because he I think his salary is under another another category something interesting Mr Fagan is uh director carabell on yes director if you're listening Could you um ask to be requested elevated to participant please good evening everyone can everybody hear me yes we can good evening okay good evening council president and council members um if I remember correctly the $90,000 was actually to be allocated not only for planting because um we needed to put out the bid for the uh po SL spring planting uh we have the uh whatever I call it the specifications done however we don't have the funds to put it out to bid that was one and two we also sometimes might need to hire like a private uh you know Forester let's say to conduct our um planting that sometimes takes place with grants and for any other um assignments that our Township Forester might not be able to um you know do no please continue I'm sorry no it's okay sometimes it needs to be supplemented so the 90 but the 990,000 wasn't spent last year you expect to spent have you spent any of it this year we haven't spend any of this year I expect that to be spended between this fall and next Spring by putting out to bid the uh uh tree planting because we didn't have any tree planting specs put out to B last year because there was no um no money in the in the budget there approximately 200 trees that are going to be planted as a result I ended up putting 200 trees approximately on each one of the road projects that are currently uh being constructed 200 each yes approximately yes I actually ended up absorbing that cost on the capital Improvement projects in order to you know offset the fact that we didn't plant any trees last year but understand that it will be a lot less expensive to put it out to bid uh under the tree planting program versus having it to do in the road projects so you're saying line 90 to Township Forester is money that you would use for uh to pay the contractor to plant those trees yes and we've not used any of that yet this year not as far as I know of no as a matter of fact like said I had Mr Kip worked on a a set of specifications for the Tre planting for this year and we have not been able to put it out to bid because there are no funds so we will use this money for that um so director if if we left the 90,000 in there what is the likelihood that you would be able to spend all of that before December 31 well we could put it out to bid the specifications for the tree planting and depending how the bids come in if the bid of the project is $90,000 or $85,000 then we will have to do a purchase order for that and meaning that the money will have to be allocated specifically for the tree planting and it will have to be done between you know the fall and the spring but the money will already be you know allocated for it so whatever is left we will use for any other uh tree planting in the town where where it might be needed got it colleagues do you have any questions for the director no no okay seeing none um I you know I'm there are there any recommendations with what we should do with this 990,000 under shade tree I I didn't hear hear you could you repeat that again terribly sorry uh are there any not your fault it's the air and yeah oh are there any recommendations for what we should do with this 90,000 unders shade tree the bud it's already in the budget I think we need to use it I mean to get those things get that bid as soon as possible indeed like tomorrow indeed start tomorrow gber Michael councilwoman celino yeah I I I I agree because we we got to get this planting yeah going all right uh director carbal please provide for us an accounting of uh that RFP or RFQ that you put out for this specific line item um my concern is that you know we we won't spend it all I just want to know so that we can properly budget next year whoever's on the council uh can make a more intelligent decision about how much is needed for that we had 990,000 budgeted and only $95 spent last year 20123 and zero spent in 2024 so far all right so moving on um excuse me just one quick question so for for uh the engineer are you able to buy like obviously they're a little bit more expensive but some of these streets that were decimated yeah are you able to plant more short tree May cost a little more but just to great idea you know re just give some kind of character back to these streets I think if we can go to Lincoln Aven is that possible yeah if so who would make that determination at that we would replant on Lincoln Avenue the for well let's think about the forest or well it's definitely not us we're Forester the Forester because because again you're not going to replant a tree that's gonna be have to come down in 30 years but there are smaller Nic and you can plant mature trees but you got PL one that's a little more mature make course little more that's what we're that's what we're asking is who would make that determination the administration can make the decision we'll we'll speak to the two directors in conjunction with the forest can we get an update on that what the plan is but as I I mentioned to you earlier you know you you asked some questions about the those specific streets I'm going to speak to the director and we we'll follow up and provide you with some kind of answers yeah and can we start on Lincoln Avenue given the people that we're here we're going we're going to we're going to look at everything and and Lincoln Avenue as I explained earlier though you know we have to look at those two different trees on Lincoln they have we we'll provide you answers with all that stuff okay all right I think we had de a shire we destroyed last year so there's there's a lot of thing and again this is no knock on I know the director I want to thank her because she's been very stressed over this and um it's it's it's it's it's been tough you know the these things were planned out a couple years ago and and there's been there's restrictions but we have to do what we need to do I like the idea of planting mature trees thank you Council I spend a lot of time at Orange Gardens and they have many big large expensive they're expensive but that's okay well and as I stated you know I I'll speak to the director's in charge of the money the Forester can make the recommendations but you know we we'll go through the process of you making sure fairness ISS I mean we can't plant Twigs where it's going to be 150 years and these people are going to be dead so I I think we pretty much expressed ourselves on that position um I do appreciate the robust debate but the administration is going to uh give us a response uh they're going to make the decision and let us know what that decision is I want to thank you for that Mr smdo and the administration did we have anything else um councilwoman calino you had the mic uh you were controlling where we were on the budget um I think we went through all our notes oh the only one I I I'm sorry councilwoman you want to jump in I just I don't forget read discuss the finance department right yeah no no I wasn't going there I'm going on the he said from last time okay um I know we talked about giving a zoning and planning um we I don't know if we could do it now or just additional inspectors but we're not there either okay no again I'm just going over what we went over I am and then um one I think that's it from all the notes from last week that's something additional for the chief but he's not here to ask so I'll have to wait on it any other additions from my colleagues before I off my oh thank you councilwoman any other additions uh colleagues I know all right um so want to uh um alert the uh Administration to additions that I am not adding asking for in this budget but I do expect um we will address in the next budget so we should be prepared for it uh we need a full-time VA um we're going to have to budget somewhere between $150,000 and $200,000 for that individual um the only reason I'm not recommending that we do that right now is because it pro the person probably wouldn't start until next year anyway um and you know it's going to take probably two to three months to find a suitable candidate um and then you know they've got to work out their exit from wherever they are likely they won't be unemployed um so we we need to figure that out and and uh I want um the administration to uh consider putting that into the budget on their own uh if um if not then I will certainly forward a motion uh to add that to the budget next year uh same is true for the inspectors the councilwoman C celino was just referencing in zoning uh we know they need more help we've got a ton of development in town and um they're doing a Yan's a job I I salute them you know you have a problem you call them you get them all the time and they certainly do work more than a nine-to-five job so we're going to have to add to that next year and that's you know at least you know one or two additional positions um we still have to um consider uh DPW uh and the additional truck drivers that they need there that helps with the internal mobility and the promotions that the director is seeking to make uh that I believe all if not U most if not all of us are in support of um and and doing all of that next year without additional revenue is going to be very difficult um but I do want to put the administration on on notice so that we can begin to prioritize some of that now uh um one of the things we discussed um with regard to Consultants uh doing a lot of the work that employees used to do uh is in the finance department um earlier this year we voted down two or three contracts for Consultants that were helping out there um in in response to the actual employees in that department that I spoke with directly um we decided to bring those well the administration Administration brought those those contracts back and we voted them up um as a compromise and in order to depend Less on consultants and more on employees mayor has agreed to uh add a new hire in the finance department I don't know what that would cost uh Mr moraldo as you're aware I put on the uh recommendation uh $40,000 which um you know would equate to approximately a 90,000 or so full year salary um would like to U add that to the budget again it's a $440,000 impact to have a new hire in the finance department that will help us get off of the Reliance uh that we have on so many consultants I think Mr Bono did you raise your hand on that uh yes Mr chairman um might I suggest that um the state of New Jersey does allow municipalities to do transfers or change of text or title if uh there is a change where basically the same service is being provided but goes from being salaries and wages to other expenses so for Budget purposes I believe you could leave this alone yet still take the actions that you plann which is uh I think wise to begin searching for a person um to replace the consultants and to um um to Simply make the transfer in November or the change your text of title if it's sooner and and the new CFOs thinks it's necess necessary yeah absolutely we want the new CFO to um lead the uh hiring or or recruitment or selection process um but just so we're clear we can make that move without making any change to our current budget that's what I just heard you say if if you're going to um let's say the Consultants are going to work until October um you'll burn up some of your other expenses money and then shift it over to salaries and W spend it as salaries and wages in November and December in November you'd be able to do it what's called a budget transfer which would you allow to move the money out of other expenses over to salaries and wages so stay with your plan it's a good one uh but um in this case I don't think it's necessary to amend the budget Mr maraldo are you uh clear on that is that satisfactory with you as a representative of the mayor's office absolutely we and um and once the uh the new CFO uh joins in we can have that R visit that discussion so we can present that because um we also have another position that we need to fill which is the Deputy position so and and we are um we've asked the the candidate the Su successful candidate to be involved with picking that person because that ultimately it's going to be the right hand so so we're so we will we will work with getting a a new Clerk and getting the new Deputy on board so I just just want to make sure I understand it so we can use our the existing funds that are appropriated for consultants and shift them to that's correct you instead of paying the consultant you'll pay the salary perfect okay great it does not have to you'll have to vote on it but know it's coming and you vote Yes perfect thank you so much just for clarification it does not have to be the consultant that was performing that job it could be a completely brand new hire sure I don't understand what he said the consultant doesn't matter who the consultant is we could take that doesn't matter which one take that money just appropriate correct correct um yeah the the budget is for um other expenses uh it doesn't specify a vendor um occasionally you see a budget that does specify a vendor but it's generally not done it's generally Financial other expenses or office in the control or other expenses um and you put whatever vendors is appropriate for you to get the best and that would be a new but that could be allocated toward a new hire so someone who has not worked here as a consultant that's correct if if you if you the if the right person came along tomorrow hire that person tell the Consultants they're out and let the new person begin good thank you very much uh both you have the option of doing one or two things a change of text or title after the budget is adopted or wait until November if the new CFO thinks that's appropriate and then do a transfer resolution so you have to two two mechanical mechanisms to go through to get there perfect thank you very much for that thorough answer councilwoman Celina thank you council president um so just just one question though with benefits do we have enough budgeted if we have we do hire somebody by the end of the year what we have budgeted for the consultant we for a couple months yeah you'll make it we'll make it the consultant rates you know the Consultants getting paid benefits you're paying for them you're just paying for it through the hourly rate rather than through the um you know as a separate expense all right cool thank you uh I I so the only other two I had on here was an increase of $500 each to to West Orange Elite basketball and Mountaintop league and the only reason is the current allocation is 9500 I don't understand why it wouldn't just be an even 10,000 um you know we know that the cost of these things are going up we certainly do want to invest in in in our uh I thought that was a a a very small gesture but I think it shows that we want to move in a in a different direction uh and start funding those things at a greater level I've had multiple conversations with parents and athletes and uh other folks in town um and uh certainly um you know as the expense on parents continues to grow um as the um the leagues get more competitive and the cost to travel or to have you know host different events or to buy equipment continue to grow uh these these leagues are going to require additional uh funding some of which will come from us some of which will come from other sources uh but one of those other sources are parents um and so if we could you know provide any relief I know this is symbolic uh but if we can provide some relief over the next several years as these clubs continue to grow I think that would be very helpful um thoughts on on that from my colleagues councilwoman CLE Williams sorry thank you uh so I too wanted to increase the amount of contributions to not just the Mountaintop League the West orang Elite basketball but also to Pal um I did a little bit of uh inquiry to find out where the origination of the uh dollar amounts came from um I did understand and do understand that pal had always received a little higher compensation because they have to pay for uh the lights at the fields um so so they they were they are charged some additional fees um and that is the reflection of the increase in the budget um my position is pretty much the same I understand it is in symbolic and a kind gesture um but I am very apprehensive about contributing to any particular um activity or program when we have not done something across the board so at this time I would just request that we wait until next year so that we can address all of these programs collectively I would agree councilwoman celino and then councilwoman gber Michael so I I yeah go ahead go ahead go first yeah sorry council president if you don't mind I you know we're gonna Mountaintop League I'd like to recuse myself I am a mountain top League Mom I'm a travel soccer mom my son's been in it for many years so I feel like the right thing to do is recuse myself so I'm going to step out thank you all right we will focus solely on mountaintop League while she's gone you're not you're not a voting board member on the on the um listen I've always been a proponent for programs I know that they um they have to pay their own insurances I know equipment costs have gone up drastically and that cost does trickle down to the to the parents uh always been a big supporter and a a booster fundraiser for for the high school so I I I if if they particularly need the 500 if it's just symbolic I would wait um and then give them a more substantial boost next year because we'll have more funding coming in um but if if they have a need now because their insurance went up or something and it helps offset it a little bit I'm okay with 500 to each this year so I appreciate that councilwoman I think the um so you know next year with the reval coming it's going to be a tough year that's why I wanted to do something symbolic now if we were able to do more next year great and if we weren't at least we you know we started in the right direction and they know that we're turning our attention there which is why I wanted to do something now um it seems like we don't we already have two no votes unless they're going going to uh switch their position uh so there's no point in even offering uh the the the motion uh because we've got two no votes I mean I could force you guys to put it on record and then then you know have you answer for that uh I'm not that kind of guy I I've not done that kind of stuff um but I do think it's important that we we make an effort to show the folks in town that we are serious about moving the budget in a direction that better reflects our values we speak about seniors and youth a lot uh we've done some work for seniors and I'm I'm glad that we were able to get some agreement there um we've done some work for youth but not quite as much and certainly not as much as I think is needed and if you asked any of them Mountaintop pal or west orang Le all of them would say they could use additional money uh even if they didn't change their budget all it would do is just help lower the fees that parents uh have to pay now this again is symbolic so that wouldn't go toward lowering the fees for parents but it would show that we are as a as a Township looking to have our our budget reflect our better reflect uh those values so um colleagues are you willing to reconsider are they shaking yet no no they're not I guess we'll move on on and then we'll we certainly will move on I I tried uh Mountaintop League West Orange Elite um hopefully there'll be a different sentiment next year when the council considers it someone please uh alert councilwoman uh Gabriel Michael that we are done with that part of the discussion and council president just for the Public's uh sake um all of these programs that uh their cooperate programs with the recreation department they have to supply and this way or interim uh CFO knows they have to supply uh a provide rather their uh financial statements to the recreation department on a yearly basis not the financial statement though it's the actual form the form it's a it's a financial form Financial form that Mr Kia will provide those yes thank you councilman uh anything else on the budget before we close this Workshop I move that we close the budget Workshop all in favor I I any post the budget Workshop is a journ can we get updated figures at your uh earliest convenience Mr one so that we can understand where we are yeah the figures I have down are we have a net 212,000 006 and 44 reduction could you repeat that one more time please 22,6 and44 okay so we were at 2.47% I think I in Era said 2.43% was our initial mayor's budget increase is that's probably gonna just take us like to 2.2% yeah the budg 2.1 is my back of the napkin calculation thank you council president the budget has 2.51 in it 2.51 yeah that's this budget uh I haven't gotten access to the the state hasn't given me access to the state system yet okay so I don't know if this is the latest although uh one I'm showing the we were presented 2.47 had put in maybe you had discussed earlier okay so whenever you get an opportunity would you just shoot us the numbers thank you appreciate you and all right we uh will Let's uh I offer a motion we go back into our regular council meeting all in favor I I worksh motion who Mo made the motion for to get I offered the motion to go back into the regular council meeting okay now perfect okay all in favor iOS okay motion carries all right Madame clerk yes sir consent agenda give me one second I'm missing my just one moment please no no all right I am [Music] ready Madam clerk oh I'm sorry I didn't know you were ready yes okay okay uh consent agenda approval of minutes of previous meeting the public meeting of July 9th and July 23rd and the special public meeting of July 17th wait I'm going to abstain from the meeting that I couldn't attend because I was on vacation I think I was on the 17th okay special meeting oh okay when you guys interviewed right CFOs and had executive session yeah I was away so same here U Madam CL was not pres for that meeting abstain from that one but vote Yes to July 9 and July 23rd okay council president okay thank you uh report of Township officers none reading of petitions and Communications and bids none uh the bill list are there any questions on the bills no I have no questions on the bill list but I do have a request regarding can you speak in your microphone please yes I cank you I said I don't have any um concerns with the bill list but I do have a request on the report of Township officers we have not talked about any updates to the library as far as signage is concern can we please have an update on where we are what what we're ordering or any other modifications that need to be done I know we said talked about doing them in phases right we we still I have like I be honest I haven't met with director QB because we just haven't met so um I will make it a point to go speak with him but we we do have a design we have spoken about it we're trying to get the glass finally in there to the door um and we're working on still waiting for the engineer to give us the update for the electrical drawings for so we can present the capital Improvement for that that particular facility also which would not be part of the I don't I don't know if it's going to be part of the capital ordinance that we're looking at right now because it may not be ready in time is the signage going to be part of the capital budget no no that's separate that's that's totally separate that's going to be part of operation not capital and do we have any idea when we might get some better signage because I'm still having a tremendous amount of complaints from residents not knowing how to get to the library once they turn into the um SX spring complex we'll get the signs we did speak to the county because we actually spoke to the county about putting him on the county roads um director carbal just put in a request for I think seven or eight of them I forget on Gregory and Mount Pleasant um we had to put in an application I believe was just a couple like three four weeks ago we're waiting for the county to approve and then get them installed and it's just you those are the the directional signs on the roads and then the working on the interior ones in the S scen property is a different it's a different design that we're working with and also an update on transportation to the library uh how is that being utilized is our seniors utilizing that Transportation no do we have any updates inter I I could tell you that um our ridership to the Jitney itself is increasing in the township um the ridership during the daytime has increased as far as medical and other trips to the stores the groceries uh We've discontinued the trip to living to mall because one they were going to close down and since they've opened it up we've just learned recently that there's no food being provided there's no uh Services no water there's no air conditioner there's nothing so we just said we're not sending we're not putting our seniors in a position not to go there um and the the other thing is that we're increasing the route to the library and and the different you know facilities or you know the um stores around the the town that has increased but to the library itself in the month of June I was told there was only two rides to the library on the Jitney oh wow okay and they got dropped off at the other and they get dropped off and everything else so it's and they and they so what's okay so I have a question and I apologize we do take seniors and we have a good ridership to go to the shop right right but not to the library correct and so that means that the same people who know that they could take the Jitney to the shop right also are aware that they have access to the library as well we'll continue to ride over the shop right or or over the Whole Foods or whatever the cas once and of course once the target project gets up and running and opening we'll be you know offering more of those rides so we're we're looking at that we we looked into some also U it's been concerns um about the Jitney about um improper ridership uh not during the daytime but in during our Jitney transport so um we've we've looked into equipment to help one safety equipment cameras and things of that nature on our buses and also a way of identifying of scanning and letting people onto the bus so we know it's our residents or whoever's permitted to be on the ride so we're looking into that that will be part we're going to probably throw that into the uh the capital Improvement project to free to look at and consider all right thank you all right um and then I had one other question but I'll wait until new business it's okay okay okay resolutions are any resolutions being pulled this evening colleagues any resolutions being pulled yes so um 223 yep you to I know others are going to be pulled by other people and then 240 249 I have a question on oh okay so I'm just pulling 223 are any others being P I want to pull two 40 the resolution to read the budget by title anything else council president I I realized that you wanted to pull p23 if I apologize I'll let you pull that one that's okay we we're still gonna vote on it have the same discussion yeah um yeah I think that's it for me questions answer so I have questions but may want 245 so I'm just going to pull 245 I get a better understanding on how that's going to work okay [Music] and I think I was good with everything just double checking yeah um oh uh and questions on B but yeah let's pull that to what two did we did 226 right 223 240 and 245 was 226 226 was not yeah now I want to talk about 226 all right question yeah I was going to pull 223 226 also uh and I do have questions on 245 I'm glad my colleagues got them any anything else before we move council president you you did ask me about 2:42 this afternoon do you need me to update you on that uh I was satisfied with your answer but we can certainly do it uh we can certainly have if if you think the public needs to to hear the I just wanted to make sure that we we I covered it for you that's all that's like no I was satisfied with the answer I appreciate it okay all right move for the consent agenda second second all in favor any opposed the consent agenda is implemented uh resolution 22324 resolution requesting the township publish an RFQ for forensic auditing services related to the six-year time frame beginning January 1st 2018 through December 31st 2023 uh council president ruford thank you uh Madam clerk yeah I just wanted to amend the date I don't think we need to uh bite off all six years right now uh I think we can um I I think we can do a smaller time frame and then you know based on the results decide whether or not we need to go back further so I would uh amend this to be January 1 2021 through December 31 2023 and uh depending on what we uh what is uh disclosed what is the result of that investigation we can decide if we need to go back any further so the dates for January 1st 2021 to December 31st 2023 that yeah correct so just so I'm clear council president that's in the second whereas Clause uh the last second to last line that says beginning on you want it the amendment offered is to change it from January 1st 2018 to January 1st 2021 that is correct it is also referenced though in number n number nine but we but before we get to number nine in that very same sentence the third line it says six years it's changed out to three years right right so essentially wherever it was a six year we want it to be January 1st 2021 through December 31st 2023 I got that right yes yes sir and then make the and then if the amendment passes then I'll make sure that it's consistent throughout thank you very much I offered the motion I believe councilwoman we have the motion and the second counc didn't see your hand sorry councilwoman so I I I'll support this to an extent I'm not sure if I'm going to pass it once we get the the pricing in because from talking to folks we interviewed talking to my own accountant um it gets very costly unless you really Target usually these are used if you think there's particular fraud and you're looking for something particular so I mean this is again I'm glad you went from six years to three years so that's a lot better so it be a lot lot uh it' be half the pricing but it's also going to be very combersome for the the new staff that's coming in but again I'm willing to get the price and look at it but I think we're going to once we get that pricing and get the sticker shock of that you're going to need to look at really Tony that you know I don't know if you could do that once you put that out there but I'll let I'll let it go for now just wanted to give my thoughts on that you have a lot here your everything um I'm not sure if I don't want to put Mr Bono in a position to comment on it but I know from conversations I've had you're really supposed to Target when you do a forensic audit and uh a smaller time frame but I'll let let you guys deal with that so you're gonna let us deal with yeah I just want to say for the benefit of the public um in my own investigation this is not going to be cumbersome on the employees in town hall the majority of the work is going to be document production which is going to come out of it so Mr you know whoever's in the IT department is going to have some work to do others will have some but the one who is in it has to produce all of these documents Madam clerk I'm sure your office is going to have a little bit as well so I apologize to you in advance uh but the the heavy lift is going to be on document production um now um when when the RFQ is drafted I this has been resisted uh this has been met with a ton of resistance which to me is a red flag um if there's nothing to worry about or nothing to to be concerned about then let it go forward right or or provide a reasonable or sensible explanation for some of the questions that have been asked but we do know we've had um bills paid without prior Council approval and I'm not talking about after the judge's uh temporary relief I'm talking about before that and we know some other things too so we don't have to rehash it all um and and and so yeah I'm glad that we're going to go through with this if it's possible uh I would like uh and I don't know how we would characterize it but I I want to I I'll stick to the point I've got one other thing to do in this before we're done but I would like to to vote on this amendment it's been properly offered in second but but just I'm not resisting it I'm just making not you yeah okay okay yeah it wasn't you I wasn't referencing you about the resistance but okay thank you council president okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president rur yes okay the motion carries how would we was that for the amendment or was that for the that was the amendment that was for the amendment that was just the amendment yeah okay how would we get pricing I'm sorry I couldn't hear you guys sorry the Air's on go ahead no okay I I didn't hear the question I'm sorry what was it no no no you were asking a question oh okay how how would we uh in drafting the RFQ get pricing by year is that possible to have uh the respondents um give us pricing by year that way if we decide because of uh cost factors three years is not appropriate to start we can start with one but I still would like to to you know to to know what that's going to cost before we made that decision is that is that possible is there a way to capture it that way I I believe that we can ask um our purchasing agent to um make the make the RFP that way you know um and how would we capture that language well we would just we would have to we'd have to be we'd have to craft it and and um and just put in there that you know we would like three consecutive years a breakdown of each year and and put it down uh price I'm sure we could do we done that for other we just did that for the Garbage Contract yeah we did with the garbage contract so we can do it I'm sure we can do that you know part of our proposal so so we can get that done thank you very much please do that so that when the responses come back it's not all three years or nothing and then we have to start the process over again so please uh I make sure I I will make sure I speak to the uh uh the the purchasing agent thank you very much uh councilwoman G Michael on that note because it is a forensic audit we felt at least the majority of us I think this was mentioned in another meeting that we would like to be a part of the selection process of which vendor we use considering a forensic audit if anything were to come up could Implement member certain people within Administration so we felt that due to the conflict that five of us should select which vendor I I don't know if you can only that's what I'm asking circumstance like what happens I don't believe you can because it's a it's a a role and function of the qpa it doesn't mean that when the bids come in you they can't be reviewed okay and recommendations can be made but the qpa is the only one who really could say you know she has to go through she has to qualify all the bids and stuff like that follow so but we can we can put committee together and if if you want to review it I think as we did in the past no more than two from the council should be on it and we could put a commit to and we could talk we could discuss it too with the new U Finance the new CFO see what his his ideas and thoughts are with that I think we also the R thank you yeah also could we see the RFP before it goes down after crafted just to take a look at it sure I don't think that'd be a problem okay so is there a motion to approve 223 one second before we do that second can wait wait can you guys hear me okay councilwoman Cel can you guys hear me okay oh no geez I knew you're best I so I'm missing every other word I think I understand can can you guys hear me now yeah yeah we motion you're fine we heard council president okay so I'm having difficulty hearing you guys um I just wanted to say since you can hear me and you can nod your head or shake your actually you're freezing too so in the event you can actually hear me uh I would like Mr Jenaro to weigh in on the council's ability under our investigatory authority to select the forensic auditor you've already answered that question yeah can't hear us so let's just go ahead and just just okay my understanding is that this is a function of the qualifying purchasing agent in the administration now you'll have the opportunity obviously to either accept or reject whoever the administration puts forward as you do with every other professional Services agreement that's the process it's an executive branch can question about our investigatory right I think I think just for the purpose of this this audit is going to be your investigation so however we put the proposal out and whatever information you're looking for this this document will be your investigation so I think in the end of the day no no matter what you're asking for you're going to get it because you're set the parameters so so so we should be able to put it together and then send thank you for explaining it because this is our first time at least for me it's my first time you know yeah you're looking for you're look looking for certain information and if that information exists they'll provide it if it doesn't exist they'll provide an explanation one thank you Mr Smo so do we have a motion on the wait I'm I'm not done yet I'm not done yet yeah yeah uh councilwoman Cina I'm not done you oh are you guys able to hear me all right so my my my connection is clearly poor yes yes right so I'm not hearing all that's going on in council chambers I just want to Mr Jenaro please send to me the section of the code that covers whether or not or what our responsibilities and our rights are with regard to the investigatory Authority we have um including including if you know whatever rights or responsibilities we have in selecting um an investigator or you know in this case an auditor uh that's that's my only request and my vote is going to be yes in case you guys can't hear me later okay all right okay I don't know where I left president pardon the interruption I don't know if you can hear me our computer uh that is uh covering Zoom is gone into an update mode I'm not sure if we're still putting out a zoom signal or not uh but we can still hear you I'm going to try to reestablish the zoom connection if in fact we lost it uh but I just want you to be aware that we might be having issues with zo the weather thank you Mr Fagan I heard um Council I yes can you call the vote I know you said yes I'm waiting for I just have a question on the U if this you're GNA go ahead and do an RFP for um 24 or 2025 now ASAP okay then we'd have to amend the budget well we don't know what the amount is going to be yet the RFP and all that if you don't amend the budget after you've adopted the budget you'll have to do it through an emergency appropriation oh no it's not we GNA figure out uh Mr Bono um can you guys hear me okay yes yes so uh for councils that discover they want to uh undertake a forensic audit after the budget has been adopted which has to happen from time to time uh in the history of calling for forensic audit how do they handle it uh tell you the truth I've been doing this for 30 years and I haven't experienced it maybe we could ask the audit firm um what their experience is okay because that I mean we just I would hate to go right back into the budget after just doing all of that work know how much to budget we don't know we we don't even know what to budget so could to half correct so you would you would adopt the budget and then after the budget you would um do an emergency appropriation you'd send that down to the state and they'd say yes or no on that emergency appropriation and if they said no then you're close enough to the end of the year you could do it in January you do it in January and do it in the 25 budget so I I I don't I don't think it would be smart of us to take an uncalculated amount and just add it to the budget when clearly we've tried tried to reduce the budget and keep it minimal I think if necessary and we get a reasonable price and this body decides to move forward once we put out the RFQ that our best practice would be to either request from the state an emergency appropriation or wait and do this in 2025 uh I am not for that at all um one we can let me be clear those cuts were made recommended by so I'm the one who came up with those cuts we didn't come up with those cuts we voted on those cuts I I proposed those cuts so we didn't do that um second I do think we could put some money if we had to because now if we have to wait for the state and if the state can veto it I don't want I don't want to take that chance I am not interested in having any politics influence this decision um and I don't want to have the appearance of politics influen this decision so if we were to petition the state and the state would were to say uh no under the emergency appropriation then we'd have to wait and then do it in in January I'm not for that at all so um I can can we look can you can I can you ask me please councilwoman you've done it a dozen times tonight please so I'm not for that I don't know how we would add this to the budget now um but at least $100,000 of the 200 plus we just saved uh I would like to to to reserve that for the forensic order how would we do that uh Mr smeraldo Mr Bono Mr Jenaro how would we do that uh yeah I think the um consensus is that this is going to be a sixf fig project um so you could put a couple hundred thousand in as um a a new line for forensic audit that be budget amendment do do we do that discuss 240 or do we have to go back into the budget Workshop what is the process to actually do that well ultimately we have to um do again if I'm I'm the most friendly towards following past practices but every other time I've seen a budget amended uh there's been a budget resolution uh written up um which has some of the calculations showing what the Surplus will be showing what the um the amount inside the cap and outside the cap and that's voted on ultimately so if you want it for a few hundred, as a progress payment for forensic audit um sure go ahead and do it do we do it when we get to 240 or do we have to reopen the budget Workshop or would we have to call another one since that one 's now actually been closed I don't think you need a new budget hearing I mean we can put a budget amendment together you can decide on it perfect thank you and council president just to uh remind you too with with this being an amendment we will need a it will require four four votes to add to the uh to the budget to increase all right you guys are so when when I say there's no resistance you understand what I'm talking about but five of us just voted for it so maybe four of us will vote uh Cons with that yeah you you wanted to ask us to clarify I just want to make sure just to remind you that that is in addition to the budget we'll have you know we'll need four votes to be to pass so well if that's the case then a council that had a 32 majority a council that did not have a super majority had a regular majority could never enter in into a contract to have a forensic audit if the if the majority was not a super majority and you had to put it through the budget process then the council would never be able to do it and generally speaking forensic audits are contentious you I mean unless there a egregious Behavior you don't have a unanimous vote is that right Mr s moraldo or Mr Jenaro I so if I may council president um Mr smdo I I'm not sure what the answer is that U council president you know just I know that in the past whenever we've talked about adding anything to amendments uh when it comes to finances it's always been Mr brono can you clarify that a little bit would they with the budgets no I cannot okay so that that's our experience here is that there four and you know and Consulting with the clerk here those are the rules of the um so we we can look into it to make sure that it's absolutely correct but that's I'm pretty sure that's what the answer is thank you m uh councilman Williams yes I just wanted to State on the record that we do have unanimous support for the forensic audit um the RFP was going out so that we could get some pricing and then once we got pricing we would make an executive decision collaboratively as to where we wanted to move forward and how and what years and I thought that was the rationale behind us making the amendment um to to include in the RFP the breakdown of each individual year I don't have a problem moving forward I just have a problem not moving forward without understanding the value and the cost so once we can identify that we can come back and make a decision and see if we want to either add it or amend it to the budget I I could suggest based on the request that that was made of the administr ation to put an RFP together an RFP has to be advertised for at least a minimum of 30 days we have to craft this and by the time we get the responses then we have X amount of days to to to to award so at that point um we could see based on what the council president recom uh requested the multi-year we could make a determination at that point in time and it probably won't be until realistically November by the time we get everything by the time we put it together advertise it and everything else we're talking November so if you have to make an emergency appropriation in November then you make that decision and you will have your price you will have your your U you should have your breakdown based on the RFP so you know we could provide whatever you you think you may need and at that time maybe you can make that decision that's up to you you know if you guys want to put it in the budget now but I'm just just trying to give you what the process would be and and hopefully help facilitate your request thank you thank you Mr moraldo um just for clarity though the resol says RFQ okay I'm sorry RF sorry for RFQ so I have a question about rfqs I've seen in the past resolutions with rfqs where they've only been advertised for two weeks it's so how is it thir RFP is 30 days uh RFQ let me just double it's less than 30 days I think I think you're right because I've I've seen it let me let me double check certain roles we'll put it that way that we voted and approved resumés you know in the past this year where it's specifically said an advertised for two weeks resume is different isn't it but it's on r q it's request for qualifications and then they're picking person so if it's for two weeks then they could should this for two weeks to see how much yeah have an idea just have an idea we be able to make the amendment then instead of wait until Janu that Monday yeah took seven days it's just obviously I'll look into this more with the qualified purchasing agent and the director of the law department but it appears that njac 5 call 34-10 point6 dictates that uh the Contracting unit shall advertise solicitation of statement qualifications from biders in an official newspaper no less than 30 days prior and I'm paraphrasing so don't quote me but no less than 30 days prior to the date on which the responses to the request are due so I will discuss with the director of the Department of Law and the qualified purchasing agent and we will uh put it out if your requ if your Desir is to have it out for as little time as possible then we'll do that we'll do it in accordance to whatever the law whatever the exact date is we'll do with in accordance to the blw thank you thank you very much can I take the vote on the uh adoption of 22324 unless there are any other amendments those are the only ones from me okay seeing none I offer a motion to approve no we already have the motion in second thank you councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Bara councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay motion carries um 22624 resolution prescribing fees as set forth in ordinance 2846 24 an ordinance repealing and replacing chapter 25 section 27 of the revised General ordinances of the township of West Orange and establishing a new chapter for Environmental Protection councilwoman Celina okay so I just want to ask the administration how this is going to function number one and then a followup question um from my second question so Mr smar Aldo um this is the amount to for tree replacement so if a tree from 4 to six inches wa four to six feet inches this is the diameter of the tree okay so if if I take down I remove a tree and I don't replace it then I pay this fine no well hold on so I'm not if you take down a tree and do not replace it um you may be so you'll be required to pay into the tree removal fund which is in the amount that's set forth in this chart so per example if you plan to take down a 4 in tree wait can I just ask for clarification so you don't have to repeat yourself with my question is this a healthy tree or nonviable tree is there a difference yes in the ordinance yes in the ordinance it's a one toone replacement for the Hazardous tree that's required that the council pass by V what do you mean by hazardous T is that the non non viable thank you for a healthy tree that is 4 in in diameter you you have to replace it with one 2 and2 in tree which costs which means that you would have to pay $500 into the tree removal fund if you don't pay it you may be subject to a summons and a $2,000 the which carries with it a $2,000 penalty if you're found guilty and the maximum fine is imposed and you can also be compelled if the court sentences you this way to pay into the tree replacement fund as well okay so walk me through it I am getting a permit to put a pool in my backyard and I am going to take down okay say two trees I'm going to take down two trees put this pool in or a deck or whatever Improvement I want to put I now have to replace those two trees with big they are yeah say they're like it's it's the depth of the tree right it's the it's the diameter it's the diameter of the tree the breast height dph is diameter of four inches so four inches not the base the middle it's it's the middle so The Middle's only 4 inches to six inches I'm paying you have to replace that with one 2 and half inch tree which costs $500 per tree $500 per you have to replace it yourself if you don't replace it and that cost might be 500 it might be 100 it might be 300 who knows what the cost to replace but if you don't replace it then you have to put in $500 per 2 and a half inch dbh tree into the tree replacement fund and then if I have a 6 inch to 13inch diameter tray I have to replace with either two 4 inch native non best size tree to trees are four 2.5 native non so how much would that cost me if you replace it with two 4in trees it'll cost $2,200 the ,100 for every 4 in dbh tree or if you replace it with four 2 and 1/2 inch trees it would be $2,000 into the tree removal fund assuming that you do not replace it on your property and the neighbors don't give you but so if I replace it I pay for my own replacement if you can either you have two options if you take down a healthy tree your two options are to either replace it on your own property yeah which could be or you can pay into the tree removal fund if for whatever reason you don't have SP based on your property or there are certain lot size requirements now in the ordinance that I don't have committed to memory but I think it's like point maybe I do I think it's 75 Acres or less you have the option to use the fund and if it's more than 75 Acres you have to replace it on your own property I believe is the way the ordinance reads off the top of my head but again we're that's putting the cart before the horse at least with respect to this resol olution as it stands now in the ordinance it is left blank for how much these replacement trees cost this resolution is filling in the blanks for how much they cost and it's based on the township Foresters estimation on how much it's going to cost him to replant the trees after the money's in the fund okay so now I have the question with a tree that has has to come down like we have in 24524 the resolution I know we haven't pulled it yet but I'm going to I'm going to relate the two resolutions so now we're taking down this huge tree for the resident that I guess we're going to put a lean on their property I guess until they could say it so with regard to that resolution on I think it's wadington it's the address of it so we're kind of jumping ahead a little bit so the resolution 24524 and there's according to the township Forester the tree that's included in those photographs and that's been marked has been um so the owner of the property was given a summons he was given a notice of violation to remove this hazardous tree I understanding is that the tree from my understanding from the township Forester is that the tree is nonviable parts of the tree are falling onto the neighbor's property it's um and the owner has been contacted or when the township Forester goes to the owner's house to notify them at apart from giving them the written notices he's actually tried to go to the house to notify them of the court dates and Municipal Court Etc um I believe the court has a bench warrant out right now because of the danger that this tree poses to the health and safety of the residents in the neighboring properties and on the streets and so the um suggestion from the township Forester and from the administration was to put forth a resolution whereby the township would remove the tree and then we would Implement a lean on the property for the payment of the services to remove the tree because the summons has not gotten the owner into municipal court and we sent with this resolution when we submitted it to to the Township Clerk um we sent a copy to the resident as well so he's he I believe it's he but I don't want to speak I don't want to be presumptuous but so that the res the owner is aware that this resolution is on the agenda tonight and my understanding is that he does not answer the door when the township Forester comes to alert him that this tree is fall okay so now with that big tree that we're going to take down so when it's a hazard tree how much are you paying to replace it because you have to pay a one to one for nonviable trees so they would have to do one based on the dbh of the tree that's taken down they would have to plant no it doesn't even matter they have to plant one tree um Mr Jenaro isn't that right it's a one toone replacement for nonviable trees that's my understanding because this tree has to be over 33 in wide I don't know to that tree and it I don't know the dbh of that tree but you don't replace hazardous trees in accordance with the chart you replace it on a one to one so I mean in situation where let's say there's a you know a gigantic hazardous Tree on somebody's property and they want to replace it I don't know that it's even possible when we say one: one ratio to replace a 30 inch tree with a 30 inch tree I don't know I don't know it's not possible it's not so then the township or will make a determination on what is close enough and possible and safe for all residents involved yeah I just want the residents be able to hear this because people need to understand they can't even Council okay so so when we get to this resolution I'm going to make a recommendation that whatever additional cost other than taking down the tree the replacement gets added to that amount because now if they were taking down the tree they would have to pay for the replacement of the tree according to our ordinance I mean I mean is that the right thing to do I don't know but we can talk about that then so for now this is what I'm worried about and and I get the whole I get the whole idea of the placement but again according to this if I'm taking down and I know we don't want to encourage people to take down the tree but there's going to be people that are going to be buying homes and not know about our tree ordinance and then like they bought the home with intent to put on addition and now they they say they've taken down a 32 inch tree and according to this they have to replace with either 44 inch native non pesticides tree or 82.5 or pay pay the kitty 500 per 2.5 inch dbh tree which is for this one they need four so is that two uh four four they would have to pay uh 2000 yes M okay I just want make sure everybody understands that that's for a healthy tree not a that's if you remove a healthy tree yeah so if want to B back one healthy tree that that's that's that's a a large size but again there's there's people that want to make improvements on their property and I get the whole reasoning for all of this and because of what happened tonight but again like that's us taking down the tree so I and then we have you know the golf courses that take down trees so we talk about the canopy and there's situations we we can control and can't control I just don't want to HT you know Hammer the homeowners but we do have people that do abuse the whole system so I don't know the right answer is sometimes so colleagues I I just uh and I appreciate your your question Council cast I'm gonna come to my colleagues in a second I just did a quick Google search and the average cost of replacing a tree um and in our ordinance it says a minimum of six feet tall right if if you the the average cost and I know we're in New Jersey so there it's going to be whatever it is the average cost for the tree alone is between $100 and $400 the average cost for the installation or the planting of the tree is between $100 and $300 for a minimum a tree that is a minimum of six feet tall anywhere between six and 10 feet that is the average cost total installed planted $200 to $700 now part of the reason why I wanted to pull this and some of the discussion we had earlier was about what these numbers are we want to be intentional about rebuilding our canopy and you know $500 might be the right number maybe it's not uh $1,100 may be the right number maybe it's not but if if in each one of these categories if you look in the chart under required action it's states that the tree must be a minimum of 6 feet tall and that's going all the way down whether it's a 2 and A2 inch tree or 4 inch tree and when I look up the averages you're looking at between $200 and $700 for a six foot tree or taller fully fully installed so if we if we want to make some adjustments to what these 500 or $1,100 fees are I think that's worthy of debate um you know we we want it to be discouraging for folks to just take down trees but we also don't want to make it punitive certainly for lower income residents or or for people that are are doing it with legitimate good intention you know trying to make uh you know their house livable for an aging parent or whatever the case may be um so I think that is a a worthy debate I tried to email this to you I told you I've been having difficulty with my um with everything my tech my my laptop so I couldn't email it to you but I will try and email it to you at a later time councilwoman G GB Michael and then councilwoman Williams Council Williams my hands are down okay councilwoman Williams I just have one last point on this um and then I'll I'll get the floor uh my last point Sorry Council I thought you were done no nothing no but that's okay um so again with Administration the the getting the education out there like you know have making sure that residents know about this ordinance and and this part of the ordinance um so there aren't any surprises for people that go to take out a permit because I had one email that somebody was upset after talking to the Forester all the respect how are we supposed to we have ordinance people know they come for apartments they find out send a mailing out we're gonna kill trees to send out an email it's like you know you know we gota we can put it on we could put it and I'm not trying to make fun of it put it's just that well because it's very cutive I understand but Ma we could we could do an electron ta B you do in the tax bill you put the letter in the tax bill but we could do something like that but I mean at the end of the day it's we have a lot of different ordinance out there and you know it's it's not we got mertile stuff like that I I mean people new residents coming to town that that that move in and they're here a couple months they don't hear about this I just don't want them well yeah we put it supposed to be on The Real L website uh um so I hope it's up there I haven't checked it can what you mean the ordinance the can't be up there yet we haven't voted on no I I know but there needs to be we can put it up on our website and everything else but there's you know like as Council said we have mertile we gotta we got to get that letter out coming out because we got mertile coming up in October you know we do we do certain letters but I mean that you know how many more letters a year we're g to do well well pardon me for a moment Mr smdo um with I understand this doesn't have to be done by letters we can use our websites we can use the the Board of Ed we because parents pay attention to the Board of Ed websites we can use realtors in town when they're marketing prop we could send out yeah we could absolutely we can do El and the digital Billboards um so and and we should we and we should do it for all the ordinances that are going to significantly impact quality of life issues in West Orange and this has been a consistent complaint is that we don't communicate well this is an opportunity to swing the pendulum in the other direction and overc communicate um and we can use digital means that won't cost much we can use social media we can use the downtown app and put a banner ad on it I mean there's a million different things we can do to let folks know that changes are coming but we absolutely have to let them know disagreeing with it I'm just saying you know the way to do that the education we you know even if we send out mailers sometimes we just did out we send out mailers for the lead based paint people were thrown away because they thought it was they thought it was a scam they actually thought it was so we had to we had to talk to our vendor and say hey we gave them our envelopes that stick them on our envelopes because they were people just thrown away just like this is a joke like so it's just you know there's certain things that just don't get delivered and the messages aren't there so the best you know how to do it the best way is it may be electronic but we have to we have to determine that so okay councilwoman Williams had her hand up um if councilwoman celino was done if you're not I yeah I am thank you thank you councel yeah so I wanted to just talk about the pricing the $500 fee I think is High um and I did ask the administration how they came to this feed before Mr gross left I looked at some other municipalities and the fees that they charge for tree replacement um and they charged $250 in some neighboring municipalities uh 300 and another neighboring municipality but nothing as high as 500 so I wanted to understand do we have to stick at 500 I didn't get a real explanation as to how 500 came about I was just told that 500 was the number I I'm going to defer it Mr jenar I was not involved in any part of this tree ordinance um and my understanding the information came from um Mr Kip I believe yeah I think it what his replacement cost would be so when he spoke to us in session he indicated that to plant a tree it's about 400 bucks depends on the size of the tree correct um and that was the smaller size of the tree the smaller tree he was saying with actually going to buy it and having it planted it would be about 400 bucks so minimum so I'm not obviously I'm not Walt kip but my understanding is that if it's $400 for a 2 and a half inch tree if there is any additional if you had said 400 and now it's 500 the only logical reason for why it's an extra1 because the tree probably has to be maintained you probably have to go around and I mean again I'm not a Forester so I don't know what goes into maintaining a tree I I'm just having a challenge with the 500 $ fee for a replacement fund have a challenge with having to do the replacement when it's a nonviable tree or an unhealthy tree that's already been I understand but we did we did indicate that if we saw that some things were problematic we could come back and do some amendments so I just want to again be very clear um that for a nonviable tree having to to spend the money for a homeowner like we're not going out killing trees as homeowners so for a nonviable tree I just take exception with the fact that we are telling a homeowner that not only do you have to pay for the cost of the removal pay for another tree to be planted I just don't think that should be the burden on the homeowner because they didn't do anything to kill the tree I'm don't really have any other comment to that other than again when this ordinance came to light it was recommended by AR Green West Orange and the council voted to have the aren West Orange ordinance put back up and that's the ordinance that passed so this was not the administration's tree ordinance per we understand just for clarity and I'm going to call in you next councilman gber Michael it was not just our Green West ARS the environmental commission was a part of that as well um they sat in those meetings and you were there you were there too so you know you know Michael brick Walter Kip were both uh part of the drafting of what has been called the hour Green West Orange version of the ordinance councilwoman debber Michael uh thank you council president [Music] um yeah I'd like to know what other municipalities uh are charging I know councilwoman Williams already mentioned just some but if we can have like lists with the name of the municipality and what they're charging for their tree fund that would help uh you know that was one of my concerns I was going to pull this but the councilman you know pulled it um the 500 and 1100 it's just it's it's high and then you know a fine if it's not done and um I understand that people are really worried about certain large developments I'll put it that way but the reality is is once that's done this is going to impact really our everyday residents right our our you know and then cost living is up and we just have to be realistic and I think you know if we could just have a list and see what other neighboring municipalities are doing you know similar size similar tree canopy whatever you know if you can yeah if Madam Clark would you mind pulling um our other municipalities I can pull the6 County clerks and see they have it fantastic can we agree to table this until we get this information at the next meeting I would be comfortable tabling this I also have recommendation too because if this was I'm sorry Council no no um so because I did the math wrong actually because I I read it I my eyes are going here this late hour but for 32 inch tree it's 500 per 2.5 inch tree which for 2.5 is actually eight trees so it's $4,000 and then so where I stated 2,000 it's actually 4,000 um but can't we and I get the and I get the idea of penalizing the developer but can we have like two different uh scales one for developer and one for the residential that's not true I saw in some municipalities there is a separate category for developments over a certain size we were told attorney that that could not be done yeah and and and you know remember when we were even talking about um the ban on Gasol blowers one of the municipalities instituted whatever their stipulations were and it wasn't fair and and you know it it wasn't fair across the board so they were they opened themselves up for litigation because of that so I think we have to be careful just because they do it like are they op litigation do we know or so this is on our legal department do it other attorneys have opined that you cannot discriminate against developers you have to have an ordinance that is across the board it's not it's not for developers it is for a specific size lot so if the acreage is larger than a specific parcel size then can do that that that you can for that you can do well that's what we did I don't I don't I'm I'm a little confused as to what I'm what exactly is the question right now is the question can we differentiate between the developers and residents no yes I don't think we can that's the question okay I'll look into it I I don't know the answer to that as I sit here right now okay and then if you can't do it by segregating those two categories if we can see if it's possible to do it by a specific lot size if it's larger than that might be helpful as well but is this only for replacement trees or is this going back in amending the ordinance again that's what I can't figure out I think it's just for think it's just for the fees for rep replacement so for one moment colleages and Mr Jenaro just for a second the the if you have a lot size larger than three4 of an acre you cannot use the replacement fund it's moot if you have a larger lot size you have to replace the tree on your lot the thinking and the debate we had around that was number one the majority of lots in West Orange are a third of an acre or less number which this is twice three4 of an acre is twice that amount number two if you have a larger lot you should be able to find somewhere on that lot where you can replant replant your tree so this is only for smaller small and and three4 of an acre uh that's what we're calling a smaller lot I know it's not actually a small lot just for the sake of this argument I think the issue has has been expressed so far and I'll come to you in one second councilwoman H has been the amount of these um replacement costs the national average and I've now checked four different websites the national average to replace a 2 and a half inch tree including the labor is $250 to $300 and that's by a private company that's the national average so we could certainly adjust these numbers downward and still accomplish the same goal which is to rebuild the canopy and if we want to adjust those numbers downward I think we should just start throwing out some numbers and and see where there's some support uh the reason it was pulled and the conversation that we had before tonight were about that cost let's look at the cost and see if there's something we can do yeah to modify it councilwoman castelino and then councilwoman Scarpa and and I and I appreciate that because in in my neighborhood like I have I have a 40 my lot's only 40 feet wide it's 150 feet long but in the and a lot of the properties have the a garage a small garage and only a little bit of space so if you wanted to put like a swing set or a pullback there and you took down a tree for that and it's uh even if it's only 22 inches wide 13 or 13 inches wide it's you still have to replace all those trees like if six of them two uh six or three 4 inch ones and you don't have enough room there then you're going to have to pay the 500 uh times three now so that's $1500 on top of that so I I think we we I think we have to be mindful of some of our smaller properties and um have to fix this uh this scale on here maybe talk to Mr it I'm Mo that we table this until the clerk can come back with are we done asking questions yeah I going to suggest Miss Gara had the had the floor yeah I was just gonna suggest that we put it through and that's the beauty of it being a resolution if we get a lot of complaints from residents or if it becomes problematic we can always amend it at that time I appreciate your thoughts councilwoman I am not for tabling I know you want to put that on the on the floor but councilwoman Scarpa had already been recognized immediately following councilwoman uh celino um I would I would I'm offering I want to offer a motion to change the $500 uh cost for two and a half inch trees to $350 and change the $1,100 cost for 4 inch trees to $700 is there a second it should be lower what is your suggestion so that failed it didn't get a second Council castelino and then councilwoman gber Michael you have a number uh I would go down to um let's get the information first yeah we're gonna be changing the numers I think we should do it information we don't know exactly if we're gonna be changing this we should I just told you Google it you got a computer right in front of you I to know what our neighboring I'm tired I I'll I'll wait to the next meeting I the table okay I mean I support it I just want to make it reasonable or if we could have two scales on it I think we we make more work for ourselves than is necessary but if you want a table go right ahead Madam wait I yes and I see your frustration I just bear with us because this is not a perfect process this is definitely not a perfect ordinance um we know we're just trying to do what we can for the people and you know we're usually here late night making very important decisions so I sympathize with you but just bear with us um my question is if we are to wait and table this what happens if a resident now wants to come and P permits or do work do they have to wait because that that see that is an issue yeah if they they they have to wait if they are going to if they're going to put it on their yard they can do that but if they're going to have to use the tree fund they're going to have to wait so if they're not going to put it on their yard if they're not going to put it on your yard we haven't established what the fee is yet so they can't put it into the fund unless unless the administration perhaps says hey I don't know what your fee is going to be but you're on the hook for whatever it's going to be I mean but that's what we're doing anyway so my understanding is that there is a time period from when you get the tree permit to when it can actually get approved so I don't know I'd have to talk to the township Forester to see if there are any active tree removal permits since the ordinance has been issued if there are I don't know what stage in the process they are and assuming that they there have already been um tree removal permits approved then they need a price for the replacement otherwise I'm not sure how you can enforce it I'm not sure how you can Force the replacement aspect of it councilman Michael never mind so I you look we've been debating this back and forth we've made some progress we are clearly close to the Finish Line can you guys hear me yes yeah did I get a second on that you did I second oh thank thank you what's our next week weeks yeah okay two weeks we're g there's going to be a motion offered later on to uh cancel the 23rd 20th 20th 20th whatever day it is what the meeting yeah yes I have meeting in August we can't wait then we have this is an August meeting last year and we have too much work we can't cancel listen we've already been more productive than the entire year for last year this this p Cas is punitive we had two meetings in July we're having two meetings in August this is punitive I'm sitting here right now on vacation every vacation I've had this year I've done Council work in public that's unfair that's that's an unreasonable ask and we're bringing other folks in that don't need to be here as well so that motion is going to be offered I don't know if it's going to pass or not but it's going to be offered okay okay we have a motion on the floor to table 22624 I'm going to call for the vote wait sorry I just I want to make sure from the administration uh M Mr schile though are you guys okay with us tabling this until we get the data or do you prefer we amend the numbers to a lower amount let's say 300 for 2.5 and like 600 for honestly it does matter the administration whatever is passed we're going to enforce so you're asking us to get you information we can get that information I already put out an email to the two directors that we're going to talk about trees tomorrow okay so we can discuss that and get it back to you so you know it's your it's your pleasure okay thank you and okay thank you councilwoman Celina to table uh yes for the information yes councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scara councilwoman Williams council president ruford no motion carries and if I may if there are any other questions you have regarding this resolution or the tree ordinance and I think to go back to what councilwoman gber Michael said earlier about my demeanor regarding this subject it's because this resolution has been on for two weeks it's this isn't a surprise so if you if there are questions on it please feel free to call me I'm available 247365 we appreciate that and all the work that you've done on this so I just want to remind the next one that were pulled was the budget uh if we don't need our CFO he's cost us about a 4 in dbh right now let him I don't know if there's anything more we need him for for the rest of the evening I'm just just pointing but can we just get through that because that is the next one we've already agreed to table 226 Madam clerk 240 uh 240 24 resolution to read the budget by title councilwoman Williams yeah I just pulled it so that we could get clarification on how we're doing this by title when we don't have numbers yet very good point councilman Williams we don't have in front of us so we should pull this I've never had that question before um it's just the it's it's a way to shorten it you you've gone through the budget hearing you you've uh really picked through done a great job of um looking for some ways to cut the budget uh when the time is comes to do to adopt the budget how much of it do you need to hear I think it's a great idea I've never seen anybody not do it um I I in fact at this point I have to go back and research if you vote no exactly how much how long you would have to listen to Somebody reading the budget you know how you've all read the budget you've all gone through it you've gone through it line by line you know what it is and we REM remember the Amendments that had to be read into the recom forever that's just for the Amendments so maybe we have a special meeting uh no want to do a regular meeting so do I okay then never mind council president thank you you're welcome okay okay is there a motion to approve 24-24 so moved a second thank you councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael we're not adopting it no you're reading it by title that's it it has nothing to do with the adoption yes councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams okay [Laughter] council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries does that mean it'll be on for adoption at our next meeting uh yeah the amendment and the U the budget yeah I work with the uh State and uh I should be able to get uh uh get into the state system and uh let's see if we get approval on everything but if the state does allow us to adopt we we will adopt thank you please uh remind the state that the reason it was suggested by me to cut litigation expense uh is because the majority of that expense was related to a case that is now uh or will be shortly uh off of our docket we won't have to worry about that anymore that's all Co related um there was a large chunk of that with regard to to a CO matter so that matter was going to fall off anyway okay if they do kick it back I'll I'll uh go over with Peter what the language that will respond is and make sure that we do respond appropriately and let them know that it was a one-time charge a onetime expense and we don't expect to recur and to get back down to Old levels thank you sir thank you thank you I think the next one Madam clerk was 242 is that right 245 25-24 resolution authorizing the township to remove non-bi tree from 14 wadington Avenue West Orange New Jersey councilwoman Celina so yes so is this the first time I I don't remember having this situation I we've had other situations where we had to go in and clean up properties because they've been such thank you very much Mr thank you um that they've been such a nuisance to uh a neighborhood and then we put a lean on the property so if they were to sell it or get a loan we get reimbursed is that's what's Happening Here Yeah so as recently as 2024 there was a resolution I don't remember exactly when um but I and I trying to remember at the address off the top of my head but it was a very it was almost an identical situation where it was a hazardous tree the owner of the property never came to court they had missed five six seven court dates in a row um there was no sign that they were ever going to appear at court because we hadn't heard from the owner of the property so we brought a resolution before you all to remove the tree and seek the costs for the same and that passed I believe unanimously back in yeah sometime over the winter I believe but I'm not exactly sure I get that I just want to make sure we're putting leans on the property and we're not making a habit that's the game plan okay all right thank you so we are putting or we are we are we are once the work is completed to get the recuperation of the funds we will put a lean on the property if they're not paid with him we'll send them another letter probably that says make this payment within two weeks um and again we'll keep trying to pursue them in municipal court and if they don't make the payment within like two weeks after it's removed then we put the lean on the property and now you got to get another tree because you're taking away this tree so that that's that's my whole question how how you handling that situation that aspect I I don't know off the top of my head I'd have to I'd have to look into it that I don't know I didn't because the first time we did this it was with the old tree ordinance so the replacement aspect of everything um wasn't considered with the newly implemented ordinance I'll have to discuss with the director and make we have to make determination as to how we can make sure that they replace the tree now the summons is still active so we have Property Maintenance Court once a month if the defendant comes to court at the end of the month for example after we remove the tree and what we're going to be seeking from the court is the replacement on the oneto one basis as well as the payment of the outstanding monies that the township expended in order to remove the tree and just just for the record I I had agreed with my colleague councilman Williams uh on I didn't support that Amendment for the Hazardous tree I I don't think the property owner should have to pay for that but if that's consistent with the ordinance and it's got to be added to the what we're putting on the lane okay thank I'm I'm good I'm good with this Council mgber Michael did you have a question yeah answer I wanted to make a motion to um to vote on this resolution I'll second so so I just wanted to State um I spoke with Mr smdo about this as well and you guys know there's a $6,500 cost yeah there um that is quite steep um that was you know shocking to me um I do understand the rationale uh and I understand that this is not just about the actual removal of the tree but all of the expenses in involved in going out there multiple times and trying to get compliance and what may happen down the road um but that that was the explanation that was given to me I just wanted to be clear that that that number sounds high for any tree um and uh it was also said that it won't cost us 6,500 to remove it so we're not going to be paying bular 6,500 to REM remove it um uh but that is the fee that we are assessing to the homeowner did I capture that accurately Mr smdo yes sir thank you and Williams thank you um so I had asked a question about this and you had indicated that this was what we had agreed to remove earlier in the year but according to Mr Jenaro statements this is a completely different household it is and so what I asked for was the bids that went out for the tree removal there there's no bids for this because based on the resolutions that I sent you earlier that were passed back in February I think this this price was based off of um the resolution I forget 47 46 or whatever 24 472 yeah 46 and 472 yeah and one is for regulat tree removal services and the other one's for emergency and Non-Emergency tree removals and the first one I think it was in 46 threee companies that give a price and then for the for the emerging there's two companies and I believe this is where they generated price from that company because it lays out how much it's going to be for a crane how much for a lift how much for all that stuff so however that was that was um priced out based on what we have a contract with these companies and and and this was codified by you guys you know by the council and just as an as so it doesn't matter what the treat it doesn't matter what the residence is you're paying $6,500 because he refused this the the resident has not removed the tree and has refused to comply and come to court or comply with the bench warrant that was issued to remove the tree so for example in the one that was passed back it looks like in February or March of 4 um the price to remove that tree was 83 yeah 8350 so this is actually less now I don't know the ins and outs as I sit here today as to why it's 17 or $1,850 less could be the size of the tree could be the emerging basis as Mr smdo pointed out that I don't know but what I do know is that it is significantly less than the one that was previously passed however uh thank you Mr Jenaro for that Mr smdo as well I looked at the spreadsheet you sent to us earlier Mr smarald and I you know it says for zero to 500 hours uh you know you've got a basically a flat rate it's not g to take more than 500 hours to remove a tree uh unless I'm reading this chart wrong and I'm having a hard time understanding how we got up to 6,500 also so now I mean if if that's the case based on what ask I'll ask the tomorrow in our conversation with the directors I'll ask them if they can provide me I didn't see um a bill for that um I didn't see or an invoice should say um so I'll I'll talk to uh either our uh purchasing agent when Andor the U the directors but I what what it was told to me was that they went out there this was based on whatever the tree company went out and said this is what's going to cost because it's a fairly significant tree and I guess because of the height and the the you know the size and everything else and the removal so and it maybe and I don't I just don't know how it broke down because I don't have the invoice it could also have to do and again I'm just speculating so but my guess is that prices could change depending on where the tree is located the grade of the land slope that it's on I mean I'm sure there are many factors that go into where this price comes from other than oh it's a dead tree so it costs this much I'm sure that the only challenge we have is that obviously we know that you can have your own tree removed for considerably less my personal concern is that we are charging the homeowner irregardless of their non-responsiveness significantly more than it would cost the no matter who takes it down so I I I'm very sensitive to the fees that we are imposing on our residents especially when there is limited or or no real justification to how we get there so I guess the only thing that I would add to that is that if the resident came to court the only way that the prosecution would ever resolve this matter is if they removed the tree which means that they would have to go out and get a tree care service that's licensed with the township which my understanding is are the services that we've ped already for the lowest price but again I got to talk to I got to talk to the township Forester to determine how exactly we came up with that number if the council wants to table it and then that's the that's the council's prerogative so that they could get more information as to where the number came from I'm just the reason why the administration put it on is because the resident was for lack of a better way to phrase it a no-show for court for the last four or five court court appearances and these trees are a real problem these hazardous trees are a real problem danger so and again I'm not trying to force it's no no no I get it I I get it I made my statement for the record I just and it is and it is again to my colleague's point her her comment was if we table this heaven forbid the tree falls and damage occurs so I get it and then then we would be councilwoman we would be responsible for any of the damage because of our delay um but again these are these are just very very hard decisions there are there are fees that are exorbitant no matter what we're we're talking about trees and we just have to be cognizant of that and and sensitive to our residents again no showing up in court you know we don't know the explanation Perhaps it is explanation but we just don't know what we don't know I I completely understand and again I'm not Mr Jenaro can you also just moving the conversation forward um the and Mr smdo the I just noticed something else uh just back going back through what you sent earlier today um this is because of the Emer this is under the emergency pricing but bular doesn't have emergency pricing uh unless I'm reading this 4624 wrong the spreadsheet 4624 uh does not delineate between emergency and Non-Emergency 4724 does and buer isn't on that one unless I'm missing something again I I'll I'll follow up tomorrow with um with them um I I'll I'll speak to the director and the the Forester the directors and get the uh the invoice and see why they use this particular company as a as as opposed to the other one so this until we get more information and I don't feel I don't feel comfortable tabling this if it was tabled there's always the option there's always the opportunity to that they do appear at the end of the month for me as councilwoman Williams said we don't know the reason why they haven't appeared or Etc they just all I know is they haven't appeared for the last four or five Court appearances it looks like if the summons was issued in well you sent a notice of violation in May some was issued in March so that's one two four Court appearances so far that they have not appeared for and I believe the bench warrant was issued at at the uh July court appearance so again council's prerogative do you want to table it and what the administration handle according what I would also suggest for food for thought whether whether you choose tonight I then you're G to be your debate on whether we cancel next meeting or not but if we don't if we don't have a meeting next uh in two weeks the next available meeting is September 10th that is prime that is prime hurricane season so you know I would just want to remind you as a the house in I would just I mean we can vote it down but that that's fine and then and then figure out how to amend it instead of table same okay so there's a motion uh on the to approve 245 unless I can resend my second then I'll resend my second if I'm able no you didn't have a second it was councilwoman gabber Michael and councilwoman Celina oh okay sorry that's all right but this is to table correct no this is to approve to approve okay right so if you don't want to approve you have to vote no no no okay I hear you thank you just I'm clear now okay councilwoman celino uh to approve tough a tough yes okay councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman SCA councilwoman Williams I'm trying to um I'm gonna abstain on this one I'm having a hard time I I realized the urgency of the situation but I have a tremendous amount of concern not having all the facts and the details and not understanding um why these people these residents haven't responded got haven't forbid it was something that they just didn't know about council president Rutherford yes thank you uh the motion carries okay so now we're on to ordinances on second and final reading 2864-20 in ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-21 multi-way stops of the revised General ordinances of West orang a motion to introduce on second and final reading thank you is there a second okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman farpa councilwoman Williams council president Rutherford yes the motion carries it's the time for public hearing we will now open uh public comment if there's anyone council chambers council president oh I can't see anybody okay so no public comment is needed um public comments close what we missed something I pulled 249 for a question that's you said you had a question no I pulled it because I said I have a question I said I'm pulling 249 because I have a question I missed that I'm sorry no I never asked the question because we were on a different topic thank you okay sorry I I missed that okay um all right so there is no one in council chambers for a public hearing is there any commentary from the council members no I move for adoption second and final reading okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman barpa councilwoman Williams yes council president retherford yes the motion carries okay going back to 24924 M Mr I just was going to read the title so people know what we're talking about resolution appointing toac to the position of Chief Financial Officer for the township of West Orange for a term beginning September 1st 2024 until August 31st 2028 councilwoman G Michael okay thank you because uh I didn't I didn't get to read this until we had a Fed out today um Mr smarald under vacation and sick days just out of curiosity is the amount of 20 vacation days the four personal days and 15 sick days my question is is that what everyone's getting that's all directors that's what all the directors exact rece that's the only question I have I had just a quick question about what we talked about earlier today yes so would you like to repeat because I I I asked uh uh legal advise you on that yeah I was just concerned about number seven where it indicated that the the person has an opportunity to take other work I didn't want to have a situation like we did with Mr gross where you know the person was working for more than one municipality at a time and uh I just it said at the mayor's discretion the mayor kind of had oversight over that and I wanted to know if there was any where the council would have to approve something like that well if the language was for example it's number seven on the I understand I remember reading it before sorry um if if the language for example uh were amended to say and the CFO shall work for West Orange and only West Orange and I'm paraphrasing um or not work for any other municipality the CF the um future CFO will have to agree to it so we'd have to put it back up for the next meeting because I don't know as I sit here today whether or not he agrees to that language is it typical for CFO to work for more than one municipality I I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head there's 250 licensed CFOs uh Council please it's 250 licensed CFOs in the state of New Jersey there's 560 plus municipalities so most of them do work or let me not say most some of them do work um for more than one municipality even when Mr gross was here um for that process that was one of the questions that we ask um are there CFOs who do work for more than one minute IP ality and we found that that was not uncommon and I also believe that it's part of our policies and procedures that any employee that wants to have wants to work we need to get permission to do so yeah I was just wondering if it could be not just the mayor but the council have oversight over that we had a resol do a resolution from the working well and and to your question of and and what the uh the clerk has U pointed out our our um our employees handbook manual was codified years ago through the council and in there we have um measures where it says you know any employee is supposed to get permission through the supervisor all the way up until the mayor so it is on the executive branch side of the government they just can't go get even you know even other other departments um that's what they're supposed to do get the permission so so and it does say it does spell out in here that he the CFL will need to submit to the mayor in writing to work somewhere else that would have be a function of of her responsibility to approve or or Den I no but yeah good point so we didn't pull it we already voted on it but there was a question I just had right so so did you want to do like we did the last time where we I believe just the one resolution I don't think we have to do on it I thought because I I thought i' said I pulled it and then okay that's fine so we comfortable I'm comfortable yeah my question it was a simple question right right and I forgot to ask you you know my Comm after work here Mr smdo because remember I was driving so I couldn't look at my my sheath right so okay so it's been approved right it's good but council mcaro did you want to resend it for you fine I'm sorry perfect great great news thank you uh first reading so before we continue on on behalf of the ministration the mayor thank you very much you're welcome sir for the importing Mr detc I I think we're all going to be very happy with him I appreciate everybody work I'm excited thank you we're looking forward to I thought Mr Bona did a nice job too very helpful I say thank Mr boner I I like on first reading yes sir uh 28 65-24 and ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7- 32.2 restricted parking zones of the revised General ordinances of West Orange handicap spaces at five cross street and 54 lellan Avenue I make a motion to introduce on first reading okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman G Michael councilwoman farpa councilwoman Williams council president Rutherford yes the motion carries 2866-20 for an ordinance amending and supplementing chapter 7 traffic subsection 7-1 parking time Limited on certain streets During certain hours and 7-1 14.3 parking time limited on certain streets during certain hours of certain days of the revised General ordinances of West orang on first reading okay councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michel councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes the motion carries 2867-20 an ordinance creating a Rec classification and salary schedule of certain Township of West Orange employees setting forth their titles classification and salary ranges and adopting a salary guide and establishing the employees status as a Township employee under the guidelines of the New Jersey Department of personnel the p position of Chief Financial Officer okay second thank you go ahead uh Mr maraldo we talked about this um can you weigh in so let me just see if I can pull that back up I'm sorry um okay so so for a clarification The Way section Sten reads at least to me is that um the the mayor has the authority to um you know give additional compensation um based on like Merit or certain certifications or or performance or um but it would be nice just to have wording in there that because it says right now currently the council endorses the administration's intention but it really should be that you know it's based on the council's vote if Council has to agree that so I can read it for you in the ordinance on CH uh section s in order to maintain a competitive Workforce and provide social equity in the workplace the council indorses the administration's intention to award step credits to new and existing non-uniform employees for recognized or previously unrecognized educational accomplishments bilingual capabilities State certifications promotions performance work experience and other criteria established by the administration including social Equity credits for an employees household dependent minors as an example so that's the language yeah so the way it reads to me is that it's at the discretion you know of the mayor but it really should come to us for approval not just that endorsing it endorsing doesn't mean we voted on it and said yes so if we can just change the language there that would be that would be great I would feel better more rest assured you you identify what the language said the previous it's the same salary oh it's always the same all this all the salary all the salary guide is that we added we we inserted the CFO salary into this guide and you're C it's so your C I mean you could say they're you can say codifying the administrations I mean but I I'm I'm defer him he's the attorney so to me the language is consistent with all of our salary guys I think it's acceptable because I process please speak into your microphone yes I'm sorry madam clerk I apologize that's okay um but I don't I I I'm concerned if we start injecting language how it's going to impact the previous salary guyses so I every salary guide that I know of that's been taken since I've been involved here this has not changed this has always been the same yeah so let's okay I just I want to make sure that you know that is true I've been here for 15 years it's never and and I understand that I'm not disputing that fact but some understand that that yeah only 15 kid I know only feels like a hundred all right then if you guys don't see it as a big deal then move on okay I just want to make sure that that no matter who the mayor is that they won't have be able to be given additional compensation you know to to no we have and we also have to go through the budget process okay that was my point making sure long it's approved by the council and it's not one person making the decision because you're going to endorse it also through through um the budget correct just endorse right Council when we still get an opportunity through the budget process to if you know sometimes it may take a super majority but three or four votes to override okay okay so I'll call for the vote councilwoman celino yes councilwoman gber Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes the motion carries okay 2868 Bond ordinance providing for Road sidewalk and Sewer improvements by and in the township of West Orange in the county of Essex state of New Jersey appropriating $2 million therefore and authorizing the issuance of one point U I'm sorry 1, 94,000 bonds or notes of the township to fin Finance the part oh I'm sorry to finance part of the costs thereof it's getting late um is there a motion before you call for that motion mad clerk yes um I'd like to ask a couple questions on this I know my col we're supposed to call for the motion and the second and then the questions but not the vote okay yeah I move for the introduction on first reading second second okay uh okay council president um which capital budget year is this from this is for for Valley Road from Kingsley Street to Northville Avenue uh this for a street improvements Carlson Road and Colonial wood which year which which capital budget was this a part of this was 20 2022 I believe 2022 or 2023 let me all right just making sure that these are not new bonds before we go into the capital budget for this year I know that this is time sensitive so we can get this project completed this year because we have to get working on it that I know I've been so just just2 million and it is this was approved in 22 is what you're saying no I think the grant was applied for I'm just trying take two years to get the money in in 2022 yeah because we've had several of these grants coming through because that and there's another Grant we have we've been awarded in the same area that's why I want to make sure it's the one this was 22 or 23 it didn't say in it doesn't say in this one but when I spoke to uh director carvalo yeah I don't see that it's not in the document I just yeah no it's not in the document was double checking but I didn't see it earlier I'd like to know which capital budget it was a part of yeah I don't know which one um can you email us tomorrow it's the first reading right yeah first yeah this is a first reading we can get this is the first reading when time we'll get you we'll get you the information we have director carbal joining us council president thank you director do you can you tell us which Bud capital budget yeah sure I believe it was from last year capital B budget is the uh NJ doot which encompasses uh Carlson Road uh a portion of Colonial Woods it also um Colin drive and M drive those are from like actually those uh grants was that Grant was awarded actually uh I would say is a 2023 so that was from last year so the Colonial Woods that's not on the uh development over there this is for the older section of Colonial Woods yeah the one that goes from the intersection of Carlson and merkling all the way to the uh new development got it yeah this is correct me if I'm wrong director this is the one we worked on we went to the neighborhood uh we had a lot of people come to the council and and know and asked for assistance and we've this the one we applied for last year this this one's been about 18 months in the working I think getting getting approved that's another one that will be coming probably before the end of the year okay they're all in that neighborhood up there alling that within that neighborhood yes the one that you're referring to is Hunterdon uh Road and um okay and drive and all that other streets in there yeah we received a lot of Dot money for up that area Town luckily okay let's do it I just want I just the only other thing I needed uh Madam clerk was the supplemental debt statement that my colleagues received tonight yes I do have it and I want to thank Madame clerk um I've requested a number of times and I expect to have it each time that we have to bond and for the Public's knowledge you know we make a lot of difficult decisions we're going into a with hard choices into a capital budget with this our debt our net debt is over $171 million so I I know that um other people have asked you know for that number um Phil lanoff did just recently and so I think it's just important that the public understands that as we make these difficult decisions yeah you said 100 and where 171 on the St over okay yeah I just rounded we got to get Redevelopment done and pay off that uh exactly property we bought okay I'm going to call for the vote councilwoman celino yes councilwoman deor Michael councilwoman Scarpa yes councilwoman Williams yes council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries 2869 9-24 an ordinance amending chapter 18 of the revised General ordinances of the township of West Orange and establishing a section governing the rate for extra Duty assignments for firefighters in the township of West Orange bees for services I move for introduction on first reading okay councilwoman castelino yes councilwoman Deber Michael councilwoman scar councilwoman Williams council president rerd uh yes uh however I do have a couple questions oh okay sorry jump the gun there it's all right um so if you know by second reading we may not have all of the answers to this to these questions I spoke with uh our union leaders I spoke with Mr smdo Mr Abbot uh the only person I haven't spoken with is Mr veio uh Chief Veo um there there may be so there's some differences in how extra Duty assignments are handled for firefighters versus police um and some of the the changes that may need to be made to this particular ordinance might be wrapped up in their contract as well um so there is going to be some ongoing work in the next two weeks or four weeks depending on when our next meeting is um if that work is not completed um I'm going to uh request that we table it until that work is completed um to give an example police officers when they work extra Duty uh there's a flat fee charge regardless of their rank um and they whoever chooses to take that job gets paid that rate regardless of what uh their rank or their overtime pay rate would be that is not the case with regard to these firefighters um it is possible to have two firefighters of different ranks on the same job and one receive less than the other um and there are some other issues with uh regard to the pay making sure that the full amount goes to the firefighter in this case uh in the police case uh it does go directly to the police officer there's an administrative fee that the township collects uh but the full amount goes to the police officer for the hourly rate we want to ensure that for the firefighters as well at least I do um and there are a couple of other minor issues that uh that several of us discussed today uh so just want to put it on the record if you know we're we're going to try and address those issues if those issues are not satisfa AC L addressed um in the next two weeks and we'll try and lay them out in detail so that we don't have to debate it in public um you know that people can be informed of what these issues are and what the uh the the remedies are before we get to the vote um I should there need to be any remedies um but if that's not handled satisfactory I'm going to ask that we table it until those uh questions are answered um councilwoman gbra Michael then councilwoman celino um so my standing i' I've spoken to Chief beo and other couple others in the fire department and they are eager to have this passed especially because there's an event coming up um so I think that we should vote on this um and not vote just you know pass okay it's been passed already U see again it's after midnight we've been here for seven hours and anyway um but I would what I would like and I've talked to a couple people about this is if we could have some kind of a trust set up for this specifically in the funds just because it's easier to like the counting and keeping track of what goes in and out and that way if there are is there is extra money we can now make you know improvements to the fire department different stations or for equipment or whatever it is that's needed for them versus going into the general fund and I think there's some support there from people there absolutely is Council as well yeah yeah and and just to your point you know we've been making those improvements through the capital budget um but I know this addresses inequities because I too have spoken to the Chief and to few of the gentlemen that You' spoken to and um I I think this will address it so I'm not anticipating an issue and again we have the inum uh CFO and the new CFO coming in and they could address but I agree with you we need to get this rolling now yeah because they they they want to see it they do want to see it pass yeah okay well we did get it rolling but uh from speaking with the union leaders there are some issues in particularly with regard to segregating the funds so that they are used for the fire department the XX funds that is not addressed in this ordinance I know but and other issues so I my expectation is that it'll be addressed before the next meeting uh but just wanted to get it on the record that if it isn't then you know obviously I'm going to move to to table it until it is because we only we don't want to have to come back and do the work again a second time okay okay next is pending matters new matters Council discussion uh colleagues I have a few issues um I know at least the the ones that I'm going to discuss are um shared by at least a couple of you uh one has already been mentioned earlier in the meeting uh when will the RFA uh open for cannabis can we get some clarity on that so uh council president Mr Moon sent this afternoon to the chief myself and and Madam clerk um the the draft request for applications he instructed U Madame clerk to send it to you for your review and we can go out to publishing which I'll I'll turn it over to Karen and Miss Carnaval but we're looking at and what the chief said that we should I would suggest that we um advertise at least 30 or more like 60 days or we could split it up to 45 days as a compromise list to one people can return it back we just got to add that to the language um and it's just got to be advertised in our local papers so it's it's ready to go it's G to we're going to circulate it to you tonight tomorrow what actually today will circulate today later morning and um and you and you'll be able you'll be able to review it so it's it's it's ready to go thank thank you Mr smdo I I did get the email but there was not an attachment I just got the email chain so there was nothing for me to review uh but I did look at the emails and yes I would recommend that um colleague my colleagues um I I I'll forward it to you right now this way since we're on the record here thank you very much sir um and the 45 days would be fine for me uh you know I hope my colleagues would be supportive of that as well I am too thank councilwoman celino so so uh after the last meeting uh Chief send it out right away I had discussion with him about it but again we just get in the final review you know the final draft for now so I want to make sure that I have a chance to compare it in my other uh applications from when we start started this process to make sure we're not missing anything so my request is not you know just give me I gota look at it tomorrow course yeah I'll send everyone an email we're missing anything okay on Council I it won't require a vote would would that require a vote uh if if there were some recommendations made to the uh RFA that's not an Council function that's an administrative function so yeah like they can still open it before we have our next meeting if they can choose to accept or reject any recommendations we make and then still open it is that accurate to the application yeah the RFA request for application I'm G leave that to you I mean I'll discuss with Mr Moon my understanding is that is the question whether or not you can accept or the RFA is written or no no no sir um if the council reviews the RFA as as you know we're about to get a copy of it and may actually just came in my inbox now if the council has some recommendations to edit or mend the RFA the administration it is within their purview to accept or reject those recommendations they can still go ahead and open it either with the recommendation recommended changes or without them they don't require another vote from us is that right that's fine understanding but I'll discuss with Mr Moon and get back to you but I mean but we're the board now we're not the like we had to approve it last time we got we don't write requests for proposals requests for qualifications and I I would assume the same would apply to request for applications we can request that they be edited or changed but they don't require vote from us on those edits is that I mean they they could reject it now we could also reject whatever the respondents were when they came before us before I gu find out I remember us it was a collaborative effort go so I'll discuss with them I I don't know the answerers this you're right okay so my only uh feedback on that Mr Jenaro would be and my colleagues as well if the administration does not require another vote from us uh to modify the RFA if if if it is within their purview that they you know obviously take into consideration our our requests but not wait until our next meeting before they open it should should that be the case understood should they yeah thank you very much um second one was um to cancel the next August Council media um second that yeah I think we've done I mean look if there's something that's time sensitive uh and and has to be voted on in an emerging basis put it in an email the budget no welled September 9th so well that's not repeat I'm not saying repeat I'm just saying I don't think the budget be on when we're ready let's have a special meeting I I believe even what Mr brono said like we has to make the changes we have to send to the state they have to approve it right so it's not going to be on August 20 anyway well it might have been but it also has to be advertised too so there's a lot that needs to go on before it can be you know voted on yeah it was my motion council president he did not I I offered the motion to cancel our August 20 meeting I second that um vote okay hold on I and what do we do we have bills that have to get paid things have to be approved we had a whole quarter before we got got a bill list what happened last summer when we only had one August meeting right no wrong cuz that's why I scheduled two this summer I want counil Mee not budget meetings not about Council Mee why don't we do this if there's any anything that's absolutely urgent we do a zoom meeting on that day why can't no then you have to advertise it I folks this part of your job is your job no ma'am no ma'am Madam Madam C C councilwoman celino this is now my fourth summer on the council and the first three we had one meeting in July one in August September was brutal a and we understand it's our job I think we've been doing our job very well in servicing this Township with the very late nights that we have so I think that there's a general consensus to cancel the meeting then we do it let's just call it to vote why are we wasting time if you don't if you don't want to vote for it don't vote for it let's just I can't vote on it because I don't know what's out there for us to do well we always have the caveat of having a zoom meeting call the vote it has been motion urg councilwoman celino not with not knowing no uh councilwoman gber Michael Yes councilwoman Scarpa yes with the idea that we could have an emergency meeting if there's if there's something that's that that councilwoman Williams council president Rutherford yes okay the motion carries okay we're done so what's the difference s um and just so you know from June 27 to September 5th last year we had eight meetings I know I'm not including budget meetings all the other these we did not have we went from 21 meetings to 28 last year and it's probably going to be even higher these are very long meeting already higher hours we started an hour earlier so I get that it's our job we can do it but if something is urgent we can call special meeting and we'll deal with it we'll deal with it over yeah but to have to say that you're not going to do a meeting because it's I get it's your birthday or not my birthday this and let's not play politics with this councilwoman I'm not politics we had two we had we listen what we've been doing this year we have a lot of work we've we've done a lot of work yeah and we are still doing a lot of work and it is it is punitive it is unfair to the council members including you to continue at this pace I mean listen you can't pour from an empty cup at some point you have to give people a moment to breathe this is unsustainable okay I'm willing to be here for the public and do of course you are thank you very much you already voted you voted no we know that isse second all in favor any opposed me everybody have a great night get home safely thank you nope good night West Orange thank you