##VIDEO ID:https://vimeo.com/1031386099## Good evening everyone. It is seven o'clock and we are calling the Tuesday, November 19th, 2024. Meeting. Um, planning board meeting to order. First on the agenda is public participation on any matter, um, not subject to a public hearing. Does anybody have anything they wanna talk about that goes on in the city? Okay. Um, next is review and approval of previous minutes. I believe we have the 10 15 out there, correct? I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes of 10 15, Mayor. Second. I'll Second. All those in favor? Aye. Next on the agenda is, um, review. Review of plans, not requiring approval on the subdivision control. We have one, one A and R, 1 37 Woodcliff Drive at Union Street and Colby. So you may remember this is pretty consistent with the site plan you approved for this, Um, Lower portion of the site. So It's basically splitting that lot that spans between union and iff. What was it that we approved before? It was just the site plan. Oh, it was the site plan didn't include this. Okay. Thank you. Any questions? Do I hear a motion? I make a motion. We approve the, uh, a R for the WOODCLIFF meeting. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Next on the agenda is our public hearings. Um, as we do every meeting, uh, today we have zoning and special permits and or site plan approvals. After the applicants present, their proposal board members will begin asking their questions and then, uh, will then invite the public to ask questions of fact. We will have a separate time for the public to speak in favor of or speak against on the motions. When we recognize you, please come to the microphone, give your name and address, and direct all questions and comments to the board, not the applicant. The purpose of our public hearings is to allow board members to collect evidence and testimony supporting or contradicting the published legal findings. We are required to make, to approve or deny an application. We cannot act outside the bounds of the zoning ordinances, nor the stormwater ordinance were also sought. Please understand public hearings are not a community referendum nor a town meeting. We ask you to keep your comments civil and positive. Remembering, we're all neighbors working to move Westfield forward. While you are free to express your opinion, ultimately and legally, the board can only de deliberate on the findings of fact not on yours or our personal opinions. First on the agenda is a continuation, Jennifer Yuk for a special permit pur zoning ordinance section four dash 20.33 for a flag ladder at 2 2 2 Russell Road, zoned rural reside on residential and water residential. We have a request for a continuance to the December 17th, 2024 meeting. Will Your motion on their request? I'll make a motion to allow a continuance. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Next on the agenda, petition of Plum Rose development, LLC, the owner to amend the zoning map at 1295 South Hampton Road from rural residential to residential B. The, um, is the applicant here? Yes, sir. Uh, just one moment please. Thank, gotta be able to see. Sorry about that. Good evening. For the record, I'm Rob Levek from our Levek Associates here this evening. With me is Matt Gomes and Dave McGuire. MacGyver, sorry. Um, they're the proponents for the requested zoning map amendment within the subject property. Um, I'll probably go over to the screen to make it a little bit easier to see for everyone, if that's okay. So, Uh, what you have before you are, are two maps. One is the existing zoning, um, which is on the left, and then the proposed zoning on the right. So the, um, the subject property is here. Uh, the surrounding area in general, um, consists of residential properties, a couple business properties, um, specifically this is where the Cumberland Farms is. This is North Road here on my map, Southampton Road. So that's the intersection at North Road. Um, and then as you head north, um, there we've highlighted a residence B zone property across the street to show that it's contiguous with the subject property from a diagonal standpoint. Um, so the existing property is zoned rural residential, which allows for very, uh, varied uses. Specifically, uh, rural in nature. Uh, single family homes are generally what's allowed. Uh, other uses are also allowed, but generally single family homes. Uh, so the subject property is zoned that way. The property behind is zoned that way. Um, and then a number of other properties in that area. As you can see, there's a residence B zoning district. Um, and again, the business in actually on the other side of North Road, there's the industrial A. So again, this is the subject property shown on, uh, the proposed map. Uh, this subject property we would like to rezone to residence B. Residence B allows for not only single family, but also for two families. Um, and you know, in general there's, there are other specific uses that are allowed, but generally speaking, those are the two uses. They also allow for smaller lot sizes. Uh, as you're aware and are probably aware in Massachusetts right now we have a housing crisis. Um, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts just passed, um, regulations related to accessory dwelling units. So essentially every single family home in the state has become arguably two fam, two family anyway, provided that the accessory dwelling unit is not greater than 900 square feet or half the size of the existing structure. So that's coming. That's, uh, I believe that's effective in February. So that's obviously an opportunity for new housing to be created. Um, so these gentlemen are looking to, uh, arguably divide the property up. They are right now, currently, um, in the process of renovating the existing structure, uh, it's kind of a, a, a tired structure. They're going through the entire thing, uh, exterior and interior. Um, they're both affiliated with the, uh, both technical school. Uh, they're both teachers there as well as, uh, skilled contractors in the area. So this is something that they do as a business, but they also, uh, do involve students in some of the, the local builds that you've seen by the tech academy they are involved in. So that's, that's who we're dealing with this evening. So just to give you some perspective, uh, they'll be able to get slightly smaller lot sizes, um, and they'll be able to do single family homes or duplexes. Uh, again, as mentioned as a separate aside and just informational purposes, the A DU bylaw, I'm sorry, the A DU regulations have come through in the state, uh, and are effective in February. So technically they could do two structures. Um, interestingly enough, they could do two disconnected structures, uh, as part of an A DU. So one way or the other there is the potential for density. Again, that's what the state seems to want. Certainly. Um, we would want them to do this in a fashion that meets all of the, the zoning dimensional requirements. In this particular case, they would have to meet the residence b zoning requirements, which I do have a copy of. And I think everybody probably has a copy on their share drive, which provides required density for single family home of 10,000 square feet with a hundred feet of frontage, um, and 15,000 square feet with a hundred feet of frontage. Um, for those types of lots. We do have some information if you're looking for, uh, for what they're, they're trying to do. Um, obviously anything that would be allowed in a residence b zoning district would be allowed. So it's not project specific what we're asking for. We're asking for just the zoning map amendment this evening. So just wanna make sure procedurally we understand what we're requesting, uh, through the chair. I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. And Matt and Dave are also here to answer any questions. Thank you. Questions, people? Anybody have questions, comments, anything? There is one other item I I failed to note and I apologize. So the subject property was, um, uh, there was also already a, uh, conservation restriction put on a portion of the property. So this would be, uh, the remaining portion of the property. So there is a nice conservation buffer buffer that exists, uh, from the abut so that would not be affected by this. So that is in perpetuity and is not affected. Rob, do I understand you correctly that they're going to be dividing this up into, uh, a certain number of lots and on each of those lots they may be constructing two family houses? That is correct. That would be their goal. So, um, how many, if they are granted these, um, the zoning change, we would then likely request through the approval, not required process for, um, a, a number of frontage lots, um, based on that regulation, we would anticipate that they would be, um, two family, uh, at least, um, say it's four lots with the existing structure. Um, and then the existing structure is a single family home and at least two additional duplexes would be the goal. And then the other one would, would either, would either be a duplex or a single. So there would be four lots altogether? That's correct. Okay. Thank you. Anybody from the public have any questions of fact? Anything they want to ask? Please come forward. Heidi B 1335 South Hampton Road. I'm just curious how much of the property that is in conservation is not shown colored out conservation land. I, I realize that the properties abutting it also have conservation land. Is there any way we can get that answered? I'm sorry, say that again? Is there any way we can get that question answered? The, the lot in question, how much of it is conservation? Yep. So the lot in question, they're not looking to utilize any of the conservation land, so any of the lots that would be created by this process would be independent of any of the conservation land which cannot be utilized. How much is that conservation land approximately? Do you know? I'll have to look through my file to get that figure, but I can get that for you. Okay. I think That's what the, So it's the light green area Here. The light green, Probably about 60% of it, Approximately seven and a half acres. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Any other questions? Okay. How many acres is this whole piece? 12 point Approximately? 12.3. Okay. So you're taking five acres that you're gonna build on? That's correct. There's a, there is an existings, uh, single family home on Right, but you're gonna split it up into, up to four lots. Yep. That would be the goal. Okay. This now the single family home, it's gonna be one lot and you'll have three others. Is that what you're talking? That is correct. Okay. So it's, it's positions whether you can get your frontages and everything else you need Subject to the zoning map amendment? Yes. Thank you. Jay, we're making a recommendation to the city of council, correct? Right. Okay. Do I hear a motion on amending 1295 Southampton Road from rural residential to residential b? I don't know if, did you want to take opposed or in support? Oh, uh, I'm sorry. That's correct. Anybody in support or against, um, want to come forward and speak, please come forward. Hi, my name's Marianna Albert, 1349 South Hampton Road, David Albert, and we are not in support. I do also have a question if, okay. I have the opportunity. Uh, it's a follow up on the number of acres and is it possible to see where those particular four, uh, lots would be positioned? I don't see too much green on the map, So it hasn't formally been proposed and there's nothing binding, whatever they would tell you today. So this is just to change the zoning district. Okay. Well, I'm not in support. It's a very rural area and would like to see it stay that way. The, uh, rivers and other properties, um, all enjoy the country, country style area that we live in. And I know that Mr. Sayer, um, obviously the land was put into conservation trust for a reason. I understand this wouldn't be obstructing that, that land, but it does take away from the, uh, the spirit of how this Yeah, he's passed in December and already there's a motion, which is okay, but I don't, I don't know. I oppose it. And so would he Thank you. Thank you. If it, sorry to interrupt, but if it is helpful to the board, I do have a sketch. Um, granted it could be different, but how we would contemplate dividing this up, I could share it with those folks as well. Um, and it describes the acreage around the property. If it's helpful, you'd like to pass it around. Okay. Russer 1 3 5 5 South Hampton Road and I am against this proposal. I like the rural area. I don't think that having more people out there would be appropriate. It's already so getting too congested with the seven B's restaurant there. And, uh, also the Westville police don't even patrol out there. They go up to North Road and they go down North Road. South Hampton Police on our South Hampton Westfield line are always out there, Ms. Heidi, 1335 South Hampton Road. I also oppose this. Anybody Else wanna come speak, please come to the microphone. So through the chair, um, the sketch that's being passed around and I'm happy to share it with the audience. I apologize. I don't have a larger sketch. Um, but it shows the acreage surrounding the property that is the open space. Um, and then you can see, uh, the general game plan to divide up the property. Um, we think that this is a better solution than, you know, larger rural residential lots. Um, that, um, arguably could have the same number of structures, actually independent structures versus, you know, duplex style homes, uh, which would be arguably clustered on the property. So there's multiple ways to do this, um, especially with the new a DU bylaws. But this will allow them to build, uh, structures that would potentially exceed 900 square feet, which we think is more in keeping in the neighborhood. Um, and frankly, um, you know, there is a need and with the seven acres around it, there's really not any, um, direct impact to these, the surrounding properties based on what we're we're seeing. We could certainly go back to the GI s but that's, that's our, our feeling. So we think we can do this in a tasteful manner. Certainly the ho homes that are being constructed would be, you know, you know, craftsmen built and, you know, consistent with the surrounding neighborhood. They're not looking for anything huge massing, just, um, pretty much straightforward, um, market rate, uh, colonial style homes. Thank you. That, um, green, green parcel up there, which is now business fee, I'm sorry, that's residence fee and I'm sorry, residence fee. Yep. Is that developed or undeveloped? Undeveloped. It's un I believe it's undeveloped. Okay. And where is the next nearest, um, residence? B parcel? I believe it's fairly far away. I don't, I don't know. I haven't, it's, it's I's not right. Quickly ripped at a not right there today. And I think it's down like on lock house road at the beginning could be of something so that it's not, you know, a business, a residence B neighborhood, really. Right. We, we understand that. Yeah. Rob, the, um, it looks like the existing house is pretty set back on the plans that you're showing us. It is. Um, I know this is a proposed layout, but I think it would be a little bit easier to swallow if the houses were pushed back further off the road to make it appear more rural from the front. I, I would agree. Totally. Um, I think, uh, you know, obviously as you know, there's, you know, there's no formal proposal before us, but I don't know if the proponent would want to comment on whether or not you'd be willing to set these off the road in a more rural nature than what was shown on the sketch. Sure. This is, uh, Matt Gomes, Hello, um, Matthew V one 10 more Pine Road Southlake. Um, we'd be happy to push them back a little bit further. Um, it, uh, it also might be noteworthy that there's a substantial amount of vegetation already at the road that would be undisturbed other than put the driveways through. Um, so I think that for the most part, as you're going down the road, especially, you know, when there there's green leaves on the trees, you, it'd be hard to even really kind of see what's going on back there, given the vegetation and also the downward slope, um, of the property as well. Um, but we're, you know, we certainly aren't looking to change the overall character of the neighborhood. We, we really do appreciate the conservation and, and frankly, if we were allowed to build on that, I don't think we would. Um, it's really, it's really beautiful back there. And not to mention that that's, that's the way that Mr. Seager wanted it. Um, and that's the way it should stay. Um, but it, it is a really a beautiful area and we've gotten to know, um, the space working on it over the summer and in, in, um, we really would like to add to it. We, we really don't have any interest in taking away from it. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? I, anybody, Anybody else have any questions, speak in favor of speak against? I actually one more. Um, so again, the proposal is keeping one existing house. Is that a single family? Yes, sir. Does it remain single family? Yes, I believe so. Okay. It's gonna Stay single family, correct? Yes. So the three additional houses are duplexes proposed, At least two of them are proposed as duplexes. Are all three proposed as duplexes? And I think it'd be hard to get one all the way to the right, you know, I don't think one really fit As easily. So on the sketch, the two to the left would be, come to the microphone, come, Come to the microphone, please. I, I think it would be more difficult to get a duplex all the way to the right of the existing home. Just the way that, you know, the, the angles of the, the property go in there. So the one to the right would be single Or looking at it from the Street. Looking from the street, I think the, it'd be most likely that the one all the way to the right would be a single family home. Okay. So the two at the left would be duplexes, theoretically. Correct. Or, you know, we also would be open to single families potentially with an A DU, you know, maybe kind of disguised more as a two car garage with some living space behind, if that would be more in character as well. So again, none of this is really binding or, um, you know, once the zoning changes change, someone else can come along and propose something different, you know, within the regulations. But I wouldn't get hung up on the proposal. It's more of a map change that you're looking at. Hmm. The dilemma that I'm having with this is, here we go again with the spot zoning. Um, and, and I struggle with that. I, I feel people have a right to do with their property, what they want to do with their property. Um, and I'm wondering if there's any way to achieve that without changing the zoning. That's just my thoughts. That's not, that doesn't even require an answer unless you wanna give me one. But, Um, so there is an alternative. I think I've, I've alluded to it and, and it's, I apologize because it's a little bit hard to describe because it's a new regulation that came right. That it was promulgated Recently and I understand what that regulation is. Yeah. Okay. And I understand that come February that could be done and Yeah, So, so if they, for example, if the, if it stays rural residential, they could divide the property up. The lots have to be a little bit bigger. Maybe instead of four, they get three. Um, and then there's the possibility that they could, at least based on my reading of the regulations as of February, they would be able to potentially do an accessory structure, right? Um, that can be up to 900 square feet, provided that the existing primary structure or any proposed primary structure is 1800 square feet. Right? So, you know, it's, um, I think separate ownership would be cleaner Zoning doesn't dictate ownership. So we've had a lot of discussions internally and with some local attorneys. So technically they could do the bigger lots and do a condo almost like a context, right? The condo would off, so it could be separate, so it could be done differently, right. Um, it's probably cleaner for them and maybe for, you know, going forward to have them separate properties. But, um, I think there is the distinct possibility that with three rural residential lots you'll get, you could get six units, six buildings, six separate owned structures, or six separate structures just in general, right? I, I guess that's just what I'm struggling with. The fact that we say yes to this, how can we say no to something else that's coming along and we've got all of this little, you know, zoning, um, mix matches and, you know. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm, it's kind of kind of touching, kind of not touching Yeah. The other one, yeah. That, That's what Fair, what I'm struggling with, quite frankly. I mean, I, I don't dislike what I think that they wanna do with this. Uh, I think it's a pretty good use, but it's a zoning piece I'm having a hard time with. Yeah. Some of the other adjacent properties, at least on the other side of the road are undevelopable in general. Yeah, there's been a filing, my firm did a filing a while back, uh, for a very difficult piece of property that never got developed, but, you know, it's arguably very difficult to develop. There's a number of, you know, resource areas on this side of the road, right? You have the open space around it. So, um, you know, it is somewhat of a one-off in that particular location. Um, but it does, you know, would, would in fact provide, you know, needed housing. Right? And it is close to, you know, con a little bit of a convenient center, we'll call it with the seven bees and com bees. But Rob, what are you gonna have here for, uh, you gonna have city water and sewage on these lots? Um, there's no sewer there. No. So it's just water? No, no water there. So, well, I'm sorry, I take that back. Isn't there, didn't there read some else about ordinance to that or, Or, Or, um, For ADU There, Water Resource Protection Area ordinance requires a lot to be serviced by both Westfield, public and water Public and necessary sewer. Yeah. These are not in the Water Resources Protection District. Okay. Yep. Both not, that's right. Okay. Thank you. Yep. So you, so you will not have, uh, you'll have private sewer and water. Yeah. Any other questions, comments, any, but oh, please come forward. Uh, my question is, with the two duplexes and the two single houses, is there enough square footage for, uh, leach fields and not being able to go into the co cons conserved land? Okay, Uh, the answer is yes. Um, so Title V regulates both, uh, primary structures and, and ADUs under Title V. So if you figured the, you know, primary structure may have three bedrooms, um, and an accessory dwelling unit might have, um, two bedrooms or, you know, depending on how they're broken up as duplexes. So say you're four to five bedrooms, that's 440 gallons or 550 gallons depending on how many bedrooms. That's how it's figured a typical leach field. Um, with the type of soils you have on the north side, you probably have close to two minutes per inch perks. Um, and you're dealing with, um, you know, probably a leach field of either two separate leach fields or a, uh, combined leach field. Um, you know, might be 30 by 50. So it doesn't take a lot of area. We do have to have a, a well separation requirement of a hundred feet from any well to a, a soil absorption system. But those are easy to checkerboard back and forth, especially when you have good soil. So we would anticipate having little to no issue, uh, related to Title V. Do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Uh, Any further discussion? Do I hear a motion for the city council from the planning board? I'll make a motion to send a positive recommendation. We have a motion for a positive recommendation. Do I give a second? Second. Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. No, no. The ayes pass, but it's not unanimous. Okay. Thank you. Is that 6 1 6 1. Thank you very much. Next on the agenda, Maurizio Brothers Management, LLC for special permit per zoning ordinance section four dash 20.2, lot size averaging to create a building lot for two family dwellings at 32 East Silver Street, Alice Bur way zone Residential B Uh, good evening again for the record. Rob Levek regarding the, uh, east Silver Street Project for the Mezo Brothers, this is, uh, your typical lot size averaging. So the subject property exists on East Silver Street. There is an existing structure at the front of the property based on the special permit application requirements for lot size averaging. We provided a table, uh, showing the lot size averaging based on the surrounding properties abutting within 300 feet. And, uh, based on the regs, we're allowed to remove 40% of those from the calculations. So we u utilize the 60%. Um, and as you can see from the surrounding area, uh, just looking at the GIS, there's a number of parcels that are much smaller, uh, in the general vicinity, um, in much larger. Um, specifically the most of the pro, uh, properties are larger. Also, we have the, uh, housing authority, I believe it is directly adjacent to us. So there's quite a large property there with some significant density. So there's a proposal and they have, um, uh, a unit similar to the units on Union Street that Mark Bergeron had constructed off of Union Street across from the church. They're thinking of something similar to that and style and size and character. Um, we believe we'd meet all the dimensional requirements. So there would be the existing single family home that would remain, which is in front Here For family. What's that for? Family? Oh, I'm sorry. For family existing structure to remain here. And then the, uh, two proposed duplex lots. This is the, is that housing authority or Yeah. Yeah. So this is the housing authority property here. So there's this Alice Bur way is actually, um, a way, it's actually a street. Uh, so the property frontage would be off of that street. It's pretty straightforward from a calculation standpoint. And again, they would like to do the units. And I think I do you have a copy in your share drive of, uh, a unit that looks something like this, which I think we even have a, a quick floor plan of as well. So be happy to answer any questions you may have through the chair. Thank you. You tearing down the garages or? Yes. Any questions? Anybody in the public have any questions of fact? Anything they want to ask about this? I Anybody have One speak in favor of or speak against this proposal And The revised plans that you showed here? You're showing the, it looks like Union Street, the condo's on Union Street. So you're basically taking those duplexes that you've showed us pictures with, and that's just to, to show us what the driveways are gonna look like, correct? Um, no, uh, in general they would like to build that same footprint, that same style unit, uh, kind of fits snugly within the lot. They, they fit well, they're kind of, they're, they're those units sold pretty well and they're, and they're, um, you know, I think people are happy in there. So, uh, it seems logical. These are gonna be rental units. Uh, and these are rental gonna be rental units? I believe so, yes. The Mezo family has a number of rentals in the area. Okay. Management. And they're gonna be market rate? Yes. There's no, there's no, uh, required affordability component in any way. I suppose they could make 'em affordable if they wanted. That's what the states would push 'em to get more affordable stuff. Those are only one bathroom. Not that it matters, but I just am looking at the plan. That might be, to be honest with you, I'm not as familiar with the floor plan inside. It might be upstairs. Was upstairs, Yeah. There's a bathroom. I don't see one a half bath or anything on the main floor. That looks correct. I believe the, Okay, so the bathroom's upstairs, Just, Yeah, just outta curiosity. Thank you. Two bedrooms, one bathroom upstairs. Okay. So, um, just one of my comments was the driveway backup space on the original plan was kind of tight and on the new plan is, I think maybe a little excessive. So maybe there's a balance in between those dimensions, But, And then the revised plan meets all the calculations. Any other comments or questions? No. We have a draft decision, Um, special, special permit in fill and lot size averaging subject property 32 East Silver Street. That's the parent parcel Alice Burke way for draft conditions. The lot shall be created and developed out, developed out in general, conformance with the submitted special permit filing plan prepared by r Levek Associates revised 11 18 24, except that the parking backup out aisles in lots two and three may be reduced to 19 foot death. Two, the new duplexes shall be constructed in the style and size, generally conforming with the submitted house plans. Imagery 11 19 24 response letter three to compensate for the loss of green space, at least one shade tree, two inch mine and caliper at planting shall be installed and maintained on each of the three lots along Alice Parkway. Four. The right granted by the special permits are twofold. A creation reduction of the lots for which this permit shall have been deemed to be substantially used upon the recording of the lot. Plan that the registry of deeds such plan shall describe the book and page in which this special permit is recorded. B, new dwelling construction commencement of which shall be subject to the three year time limit for action as pursuant to the general conditions. Anybody have any questions? Of fact? Anybody want to speak in favor of? Speak against please come forward. Do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. You have more questions? One, just one question. The, the face, the front of those house, those duplexes is gonna face the park, the parking, or is it gonna face Alice Burke? It's going to face Alice Burke. The front is gonna face Alice Burke. Yes. Okay. There's, Do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? Motion To close the public hearing? Second. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Okay. Do I hear a motion on our draft conditions? On, On the conditions, or you want somebody to Make a motion to? Well, a motion on our regular motion on the, on What's before us. Okay. I will make a motion to approve the infill, um, provision for 32 East Silver Street. Second. Okay. The special permit You mean? Oh, special permit. Excuse me. We have a second. Second. Okay. Cheryl? Yes. John? Yes. Jane? Yes. Phil? Yes. Bernie? Yes. Rich? Yes. And I am a yes. Thank you. Appreciate it. Next on the agenda, Westfield Barnes Regional Airport, city of Westfield for a special permit site plan per zoning. Ordinance three dash 1 53 2 and three dash 1 77 6 to add an aviation fuel facility at one 10 Airport Road, zoned airport and water, um, Water restricted. Hello. Welcome. Hi, good evening. Uh, for the record, my name's Chris Willenborg. I'm the airport manager at Westfield Barnes Regional Airport. I'm here this evening on behalf of the Westfield Airport Commission and looking for a favorable, uh, recommendation from the planning board for special permit and site plan for a new self-service aviation fuel facil facility at the airport. Um, over the last several years, we've been carrying this project in our five year airport capital improvement program, and has also identified on our airport layout plan, uh, to install a self service aviation fuel facility at the airport at our capital planning meeting with the Ma Erotics division. Uh, back in September or October, uh, we got word that they have available funding. They would be a majority funder of this project to proceed with going out to bid and hopefully construction, uh, during next year calendar year. So with me this evening, we have, uh, Craig Schuster from Airport Solutions Group and Dave Frothingham from Wilcox and Barton. They are the engineers that put together the plans and can answer your technical questions regarding the site plan and also the fuel facility. One other item I'd like to mention, uh, there are numerous airports around the Commonwealth that have self-service aviation, fuel facilities. Uh, some examples here in Western and central Massachusetts are great. Barrington Airport, um, orange Airport, Fitchburg Airport, south Bridge Airport, and Hampton Airport. Our design is modeled after the Fitchburg Airport. It's a municipally owned airport in Southbridge Municipal Airport. Um, I visited those facilities, met with those airport managers, um, and based on conversations with those airport managers and the fuel providers of those facilities, uh, these designs have been very successful. So we instructed the, uh, engineering team to follow that model that has been approved at other locations around the state. So with this, I'll turn it over to Craig Schuster of Airport Solutions Group. Thank you. Be Before you turn it over, can I ask you a question? Are the, how many of those, um, facilities that you mentioned are over in aquifer At other airports? Yes. Um, I would have to do research on that. Okay. I believe, and Craig is from, uh, airport Solutions Group at Orange Airport. There's a, I believe they have an aquifer there. I'm not sure. I'd have to research that. I just thought, I believe Great. Barrington is over an aquifer, but I can get back to you. Hyannis is, and they have a self-service. Okay. They have fuel facilities at Hyannis, but it's not a self-service, but it's not self-service. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. For the rec for the record, Craig Schuster Airport Solutions Group. Um, first I'd like to highlight where the fuel farm's gonna go on the map, so you get a sense of, uh, positioning. So this is, uh, amont way. Um, this is the terminal. So this is the main entrance right into the, uh, terminal area of the parking lot. So if you just continue further down, um, you follow this way to the end, you'll come to a gate right here, it's in airport gate, and then right to the right of that where right where Jay has his cursor, that is where the fuel farm's gonna go. Okay. So right between this, the hanger two and hanger three. Can You do me a favor? Yes. We couldn't see over Here. I go this way. You go On the other side. Yeah, sure, sure. Wanted the public to see what you're saying on the cur, then just, Okay. I'm sorry. So, uh, yeah, so, uh, like I said, this is, um, airmont way. You take a right, you know, this is the main entrance into the, uh, airport, the terminal building. And just follow this road right down. You come to a gate, which is right about here. And then right to the right of that gate, there's a big grass area, right? There's a, uh, a security fence right there. And we're gonna put the, uh, fuel farm right at that location. Okay. Sorry, other way, could you bring up sheet number 10? It bm can you just, it keeps scrolling through. I'll tell you where to stop This one. Right here. Right here. All right. So the, uh, fuel farm facility. So I'll give you a breakdown of fuel farm facility and how it's gonna operate. And I'll get into some of the details of, uh, what we have. So you have a fueling pad here, okay? It's 50 by 50. Um, you have a positive living barrier, which is actually just grooves around the concrete barrier. If you've ever been to a, you know, a vehicle station, you'll see those grooves around. That helps, um, gather any, any spills. I figure there's a limit on it, Dave, right? I dunno if it's 10 gallons or something like that. But that, that is, um, the fueling past uss, where the aircraft will sit in the fuel, and that's when the, uh, offloading of fuel comes in from the fuel truck as well to get the fuel from. Then we have a small concrete pad between that and the actual, um, structure of where the, the tanks are. We have one tank proposed that 6,000 gallon tanks a double walled, but we're also gonna provide another space for a future tank. We're not gonna install that to this time, right? Uh, so these tanks are also going to be in a tertiary containment, which is this right here. And I'll get to that detail in a moment. So what happens is that the aircraft will come in, they park here, we have a credit card, we're gonna have a credit card machine. They use a credit card. Um, you have a, a unit here that houses the ho the actual hose to pull out to fuel it, the aircraft, and also for offloading the fuel that releases the fuel, fuel the aircraft, and then they go on their way. Okay? So, um, let's see. Also on highlight, we do have a, a emergency shutoff with the emergency phone housed in a cabinet up here nearby in case there's any accidental spills or if the, for some reason, the, the, the fuel thing doesn't shut off. Uh, we have that nearby that says required. Um, could you go to the next page, Zoom out just a little bit more. So I'm gonna capture this cross section so we can kind of see it. So this is the cross section of the, uh, the fuel farm. So as you see in, in this light color here, that's the future. A future tank. This is the tank we're gonna be putting in on foundation. This is a, uh, cabinet with the door. Like I said, it'll house the, the fueling equipment. And there, um, we have a, the tertiary containment, which is this right here, right? It's about 3.3 feet, three inches down. And that was based off of, uh, where we size that is, we took the, we had the size of taking the volume of both tanks, 12,000 gallons, then a 25 year storm event, plus, uh, six inch freeboard. So that's how we have that. So we're always containing fuel. Any rainfall in this containment area, being an aquifer, we know this has to be watertight, so this has to be watertight. Okay? The bottom of this thing, the, uh, containment, tertiary containment, it is sloped towards a corner. And I'll get to, uh, where this goes on another drawing, but in this, uh, corner, we do have a, a screen here, right? Because this will eventually go into the sewer, but to capture any debris, et cetera, we do have, um, grates for the airport so they can walk around the, uh, the, the fuel tanks, just take care of them. Um, see if there's anything else I wanna highlight on here. No, I think, I think that's it. Could we scroll back for me? Yeah. Back. So I'm gonna talk about, keep going. Yeah, I'll talk about how this, Yeah. This one right here. Okay. So, so this, there's a better overview. Um, so like you said, this is the ter tertiary containment, that slope that goes down to a pipe in the corner here, right from that pipe, we go into a manual gate valve, which remains closed at all times. And I'll get to, you know, how this all is gonna go here. And then from there, we're going into a water quality structure, and then we eventually tie into the existing sewer, the sewer man hole up here, right? So the idea is, you know, if you have a spill or if there's a rain event, you know, the airport has to come out, look at the, uh, the water in that's contained in here, right? And if there's a sheen on it, or if there's some fuel thing, then the airport's gonna have to get the truck out or whatever, someone to pump it out properly. If not, they inspect it and they go to this manual valve. It's just, it's gonna be a, in a concrete ball in the ground, and you open up a hatch and it's gonna have to be done by hand. They open up, let the water out, go through a water quality structure into the sewer, right? Then they gotta close it again. So that will always remain closed until after an event, Right? Um, other items that we do have in the area, we do have area lighting for the area. We don't have any canopy that we're putting on this. Um, we do have to reroute some, uh, water, water lines that are going feeding hangar two. We have a two two inch domestic and an eight inch fire. We have to reroute around the backside. Um, and we'll work it, we'll work with that. We have to work with the airport. We'll probably end up doing that at night, uh, uh, just because we don't want to disturb hanger two. And that's the best time probably to do it. Um, what else do we have? We, we'll also have an area camera on the site. It's going to be mounted on a, there's a utility pole right here we'll be facing back here that will be fed back to the air to the terminal in the airport offices. There's also, um, tank alarms, low fill, high fill, various other alarms that's gonna be all fed back to the, uh, terminal in the airport offices as well. Um, what else do I have? I think, I think, um, that's pretty much what I have. So, um, if, you know, if you have questions, which I'm sure you will, um, we will, uh, answer them. I have a question. Yeah. How are planes currently fueled at Barnes Airport? Thank you, sir. So currently aircraft are fueled by vehicles, fuel trucks that drive to different locations on the airfield. So for example, in front of the terminal building where Togo Restaurant is, uh, fuel truck would pull onto that ramp for transient aircraft. Those are aircraft that are visiting, not based at Westfield, but then we also have flight school aircraft that are based at the airport. Other, we have 140 based airplanes. So, uh, fuel trucks go to that location and fuel them at where the aircraft is parked. So it's all over the airport. This project potentially has a benefit of, um, having the majority of the aviation fueling, uh, activities taking place in one designated area. If this project moves forward and we have a self-service fuel facility, there still will be mobile refuelers at the airport. Not everybody wants to fuel their own airplanes, but because of the price difference for self-service versus full service, we anticipate that the majority of the small aircraft owners are going to utilize the self-service facility. So the, uh, fuel truck, the fuel truck drivers are the ones who fuel the planes then presently? That is correct. So they have to go through certain training. Okay. Um, and because we're a FAA part 1 39 certificate at airport, um, we have to inspect, uh, the records, the training of the fuelers, uh, quarterly. And then once a year, the FAA comes in for annual airport inspection, and we do an extensive inspection of the vehicles, the hoses, um, bonding clips. There's a whole checklist. This self-service fuel fac facility. We will have to do the same type of inspection, uh, with FAA. Um, I did, back to your first question, I did a quick search on the internet and, um, great Barrington Airport is over in aquifer. Uh, orange Airport is over in aquifer and Southbridge Airport is over in aquifer. Um, I couldn't find anything on Fitchburg, and I'm not sure about North Hampton, but both those airports are near rivers. Um, so storm water runoff. Um, one thing else, I'm not sure if Craig mentioned, we have a formal, uh, EPA approved storm water pollution prevention plan. So this project would get incorporated into that. So that's something we would have to follow. As well as, um, we have a spill prevention, countermeasure control plan, once again approved by EPA and we have to do, uh, checks on that. Right now. My staff with their daily inspections, we have to, we drive by check every fuel facility right now in airport, make sure there are no leaks or any issues, um, at those facilities so that this would just be incorporated into that rotation. So the, the, um, pilots or their designated person would be fueling the planes themselves. That is correct. And, and that is a pretty common practice across the country, uh, for general aviation aircraft. Um, pilots are pretty comfortable about fueling their airplanes because there's a di typically a discount at the price. So you could save anywhere from 75 cents to a dollar a gallon. And if you're buy, if you're buying 20 or 30 gallons of fuel, um, it saves money. You, you wouldn't, um, want somebody who's trained in fueling and handling these pumps and everything. I know the pumps to do the fueling. I guess that's my, uh, we don't know who's gonna be operating these pumps. So, um, there are two options on who is actually operating the fuel facility. It's either gonna be owned, um, and operated by airport personnel, or we're gonna contract out somebody to run it for, uh, the airport. But either way, um, the employees will have to be, um, trained and certified. There's, uh, a lot of training heads involved, I'm sure. Um, spill prevention is a, is a big thing. Um, at this location, we have to have, um, special cleanup, spill prevention. We do have a, a 24 hour, uh, full-time airport fire department. So even right now, if there's a spill on the airport, uh, they get notified immediately. Um, they request assistance from the city of Westfield. If there's a spill of more than 10 gallons. DEP has to get notified in the region. Um, Springfield fire Department is the regional hazmat team to respond if there was a major event, but we have a lot of procedures in place. Uh, we have an FAA approved airport emergency plan, and this new facility would get incorporated into that. But I guess that's what I'm not comfortable with. You're telling me about all the training that, you know, the personnel for the fuel, uh, pumps need to have. But these pilots, um, you don't know how they're trained. If this is the first time they're few, and I guess that's just an area that I'm a little bit not comfortable with at this point. I, I can understand that concern. I mean, as I mentioned, this is a common practice across the country. So most generally aviation pilots, um, if they fly around a country, uh, or even in Massachusetts, as there numerous airports in Massachusetts, new England, Northeast, uh, they have fueling facilities. There will be instructions and placards out there. There are emergency shutoffs like, and I know Dave Frothingham, uh, from Wilcox and Barn can talk about some of those safeguards at are in place. Um, certainly with our tenants. Um, I would anticipate that we would have, uh, you know, a workshop or seminar. We do that right now with our tenants, uh, for different items at the airport. So we could do training sessions on how to use the facility, um, in the future. But it doesn't address a question if you have a transient aircraft from another airport come in. Right. You, you don't really have control over what they're doing, I guess is, is my concern. Well, there, there is control. I mean, there, there's procedures. I mean, you have to do certain things in order to operate the fuel, uh, the nozzle to fuel an aircraft, right? You have a what's called like a dead man and you have to actually hold it. You have to be at the aircraft. Um, there's instructions about how to bond the aircraft. There's certain things. So there are safeguards there, but it's not, I can't guarantee to the planning board that everybody will have had specialized training on fueling an aircraft. Thank you. So Chris, are there, uh, I don't know if it's state or federal regulations about, uh, requirements for a pilot to do while he's, like you just said, they have to be standing there. Is that a state requirement or is that an actual physical equipment type of requirement that makes them stand there and do it? So I'll defer to Dave, but I believe the NFPA, the National Fire Prevention, there's federal rules about how fuel facilities operate. And I think that's listed in there. Is that accurate? Yes. So it's, it's federal regulation And it did you say two pumps or there's only one? There would be one pump, there's one tank. We have plans for a, um, uh, new, uh, tank or future expansion tank. We're, we're planning for two, but right now it's, it's just gonna be one initially. Okay. Um, there'd be one one nozzle, I guess is fair to say for that on the AGAs. Depends on how we propose a set up. The second One. Yeah, I, when we get to a second tank, yeah, you could use one nozzle or, or, uh, have two nozzles. So is, is the space managed by somebody, let's, let's say this pilot figured out a way to tie a string around the thing that makes 'em hold the hose or whatever, that a human could override that and shut it off. So where it's located, it's on airport property. We will have, uh, camera systems there when we're not there. I mean, we have staff there, uh, you know, Monday through Friday, periodically on weekends. We have staff there, but certainly, uh, um, we have a camera system, uh, pretty extensive one at the airport and there would be one at this facility. Those cameras are monitored, um, 24 7, so Right, but can they override somebody doing something they're not supposed to be doing? I guess if someone really wanted to bypass, like instead of holding the, the uh, nozzle, someone could put something in there correct. To, to uh, allow it to go without them actually holding it. Um, that is possible. That is not a common practice at the airport right now. The fuelers don't do That. Pilot special guys, I know they're probably not gonna mess around, but there's always that, that guy personally Understand What's the, what's the size of the aircraft. That's a lot that's gonna be able to use this. Uh, Piper Cubs C3 one 30, you know, what size range jet? The two engine jets, what are you talking about? For size for the Aircraft? Sure. So you'll see everything from an experimental home built aircraft up through like a twin engine, propeller driven aircraft. This is aviation fuel. It's not jet fuel, no, JP Ford. So you, you won't have jet aircraft. They can't use that fuel. Okay. So it's all propeller driven aircraft. Yes. And It's, most of 'em are at best as a twin engine. You don't have many, many bigger aircraft than that in there that would use that, right? No. Uh, our, our base aircraft, the 141 base aircraft that we have of propeller driven aircraft, um, they are basically two engine. The majority of our aircraft at the airport are single engine, single engine ga aircraft flight training system. I'm thinking more like when you start getting into some of the cargo aircraft, the umbrella driven, the larger ones again, I, the one 20 threes, you know, they're all military though, I think of, but they got their civilian counterparts. So one 20 threes, one thirty's, those type of things. They wouldn't, They Use jet fuel. They actually have jet engines. So like a C one 30 is actually a jet engine, but it has a propeller, but they have jet engines and they strictly use, uh, jet fuel. They do not use the Aviation. Alright, so only the bigger ones wouldn't, wouldn't be using this Fuel either? It, it would be unlikely. I mean, if we had, uh, if we had a visiting World War II bomber aircraft come to the airport, that might be a four engine. Yeah. A propeller aircraft, they might use it, probably not, because it's hard to maneuver them around. And that would be a large aircraft in that area. Well That's, that's what I was thinking. Well, you get so of a bigger wingspan and it's helped to turn the area that you've got allocated for this thing. Yeah. That more than likely that type of aircraft would be fueled by a mobile refuel or Chris. Okay. Yes. Um, I'm mentally picturing a gas station at the airport for planes. Is that a good way of me thinking about this? Yes. Do planes have automatic shutoffs like cars do? So I'm holding it pump, pump, pump, pump, pump. It's full click. No. So it's more like visually it's more like a motorcycle. I gotta look in and wait and see to get to the top at That's a great analogy. Yes. Okay. It's like a motorcycle. Alright. You have to visually see and then let go when it gets near the top of the tank. So there are many different types of gas stations, anybody that's ever been to Costco. Okay. Are these planes all stacked up on top of each other? Waiting, waiting, waiting. Do we have a safety issue that way? In my experience as an airport manager, you don't normally see it like the Costco gas station. Okay. West Springfield, you may have one or two lined up behind an aircraft getting fueled, but it's not like you have a long line. Okay. Um, waiting. I, I haven't seen that as an airport manager. Other airports around the State. And, and I'm not a pilot, but I would assume these guys practice safety. I don't have to worry about a plane running with an, um, a propeller running into another airplane or anything like that because that unto itself is a safety issue. Yes. So in this area, it's inside the fence. So you do not have any general public walking around. And all of our tenants, because we're a part 1 39 certificated airport, they all have to take, uh, a driver training class and pedestrian not movement area. So we go into great detail about giving way to aircraft when you're walking, being whether you're walking or driving your car to your aircraft. And also as a pilot, you're trained to be aware of your surroundings. So, um, there's no public in this area. It's strictly, uh, pilots, aviation. If we have transient people flying in, there are pilots from other airports, but our tenants that are based there, they have to go through a driver training class. And we specifically in that training module, they go through, um, being aware, driving your car, their restrictions on, uh, driving on the apron, the speed you have to give way to aircraft. They train, even non-pilot fuel, uh, line service personnel or others. They get trained on when an aircraft is getting ready to be started. There are certain lights that come on. And that's in our training video. So, Um, how do we prevent all the gasoline spots on the concrete at gas stations that we see, you know? So again, we're over an aquifer, so, you know, um, and these are, these are being filled into cars that do have automatic shutoffs. Okay. And not saying that I do this, but click couple more. You know, I can get another gallon in there, half a gallon, click, click, click, and finally there's a ultimate click. Um, but if you look around gas stations, there's always those little spots. I'm assuming those spots might get bigger if they, if people have to, if there is no automatic shutoff, That could be a possibility. I mean, certainly, uh, pilots are very cognizant of getting aviation fuel on their paint on their aircraft. It's very expensive to paint your aircraft. So it's, it's not a common thing of fuel spilling when they're filling it is possible. Um, but, uh, usually pilots are pretty aware they don't want to get the fuel on the paint of their Aircraft. Why, why is that? It just would deteriorate the paint. I mean, if you own a hundred thousand or $200,000 aircraft, a, a new paint job could be, I'm not a hundred percent sure about 15, $20,000. Mm-Hmm. Uh, depending on what you're getting done. So they just don't want their paint damaged. Okay. Bill, I, I'll bet you're far more careful putting gas in your motorcycle than you are your car. I got an electric car. Yeah, I was gonna say, you don't buy your other car. Well, this, and John, that's a, that's a very interesting statement because yes, you are correct. I don't want gas on my motorcycle paint job. Do they have to ground the, ground the aircraft before they fuel and is there's clamps and everything to do that With? Yes. So there's a bonding reel that is attached to the fuel facility, and there's a clip that has to be clipped onto the aircraft. Static and static. Yep. Static bonding clip. Um, that would be inspected every day, whether the airport staff does it, or we hire a third party that is a required inspection, um, to make sure one, the fuel is tested, uh, make sure the filters are no leaks. Um, the static bonding clips, the emergency shutoffs have to be checked every day. Uh, that is part of a detailed checklist. Uh, there's a more formal quarterly inspection that's done where you actually, um, pull out the entire hose of the fuel of the reel to check for cuts or potential cracks wear down of it. There's actually a date when it wears down to a certain point, there's a date on a hose that, um, you have to replace it. Mm-Hmm. At a certain point. So there's a lot of, uh, requirements for inspection because it's, it's also whoever is operating the fuel facility, you know, you have lives at stake, you want to be sure you have, um, clean fuel and not have any issues. And safety is utmost paramount. Um, handling a fuel and having a clean facility. And obviously we, we take, um, take very seriously that the aquifer is below the airport. We, we try to be focused and be good stewards over the aquifer, um, with our civilian operation and make sure everything is done properly. And within the, the swip and the SPCC plan Question, Will this pump above station be available? Uh, 24 7? Yes. Uh, but you won't have employees there 24 7? We will not have employees there 21st. First. I don't Know of any gas stations that have a gas station with no employees. There. Some that's a, that's a bit concerning, I guess. But you have security cameras on That We will have in this new location, we will have a security, But they won't be manned 24 7. Probably It is monitored 24 7, but, so we Take Okay. Thank you. Yep. Um, Bernie, I've been upstate Vermont and upstate Maine where they do have gas stations. Okay. Now it is rare. Very rare, but I've seen them. Okay. And they are really small. Um, but it's rare. So, um, Cheryl, you got comments, questions? Um, yes. Thank you. Um, one, I know that bacteria where the fencing is, that's high security. You can't just walk in there. And I believe most of all those people also have badges. That is correct. You need to have a badge to get into that area. Yes. And if anybody's going out there like a limousine or food is being put on the planes or removed from the planes, they have to get access to go on there and they're only allowed to go a certain distance to go to those planes. That is correct. They have to be escorted. And where this proposed location, it is not in that general area. Correct. Of where we have sporting charters, catering of business, aircraft, things like that. This is on the other side of the tower. Um, but you cannot, if you're not badge, you have to be under escort of a tenant. An authorized badge holder I'm not worried about, 'cause I know it's always on lockdown, so I can't always go in there. The, I only have two questions. With the, um, the above ground storage tanks, when it needs to be refueled, that's gonna come in and be refueled, correct? Yes. Okay. Then the second question, always been curious when the plane goes onto the pad to get re refilled, if there is some spillage, which we know that we don't spill on paint 'cause it's a lot more than 15,000 to fix it. Um, if there's some residual, where does that actually go? And it sits on the pad. Um, So specifically for the new facility? Yes. 'cause when you, when the, when the plane's driving on where the pad is Yep. Or they're gonna refill. And, uh, I, I'm thinking that the pad, I've seen the pads, but I'm not really familiar with. I'm just curious where, um, if there's residual, where does that go? Okay. I'll let the, uh, consultant team. I know that in the fuel tank area, the, the drainage from that area goes to an oil water separator. So that would be closed, um, at all times. And then if we had, uh, water, rain water in that area before it would be opened up, it would have to visually be inspected. Um, and that would just be one of our procedures. Now, do they by any chance, say that there's a little bit of an excess residual? Would they be washing that off the pad a little bit and it goes down below and the, and the holding tank? Um, I guess we'd have to see normally, like on our main ramp where we have fueling right now, if there's residual out there, the FBO has special, um, mats to pick up the aviation fuel and then it's disposed of properly. Um, on our main ramp, we also have an oil water separator that is, um, uh, the water goes through an oil water separator before it goes to a recharged area. So we have a procedure in front of the terminal building if there was a fuel, a major fuel spill or any sort of fuel spill. Uh, particularly if it was more than 10 gallons, we have a way to shut that valve immediately. Okay. Um, before it would get into a recharge area. Uh, so then it would be, um, could be contain contained and cleaned out. But I'll let them answer specifically about that. One last thing. Yep. I almost forgot the tank itself, because I know it's double out. There is no other, um, like a wall down below on the, on the, on the floor. If there was, if there was ever a problem. I believe it's just gonna be double wall freestanding. I believe there is a tertiary Containment and, And I didn't know the name of it, but I know what it looks like. There is A third containment. Yes. Like a concrete tub. Okay. Can you tell me what the height of that wall is? It's about three feet, three inches. Okay. Thank you. What's the capacity of that tub? Got that. Um, it, there will be a capacity of both of the tanks if You want. I'm, I'm sorry, say that Again. Yeah. The capacity of both of the tanks. Yeah. When you get a second one, so that's 12,000 gallons plus the water from a 25 year storm, and then six inch, another six inches just freeboard like extra. And I think that's right there. That's per the, per the reg 15,000 Gallons and Change. Yeah. 15,000 gallon That will hold if it spills. You're saying if there's a problem, 15,000 gallons. Yeah. That's what's required. So that's what we designed it And then that say if that ever happened, but I've never seen it happen, but, But it never does. They then they would actually have to pump that out. Yeah. Yeah. They would have to get clean harbors or something out here to pump that out. Yep. Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Any Yeah, really anytime's an issue, like if there's, you know, like I said before, you know, rainfall or if there's a, a spill, there is some products sitting there. They, you know, the airport's gonna have to get that taken care of. They can't just let it sit there, you know, they have to pump it out or absorb it or whatever they have to do. And like, from what Chris said, you know, they're gonna be inspecting every day. And of course if something happens, they'll, they'll sure they'll know too. So I know it's very strict, so Yeah. It's one. Thank you. I appreciate it. Anybody in the public have a question of fact? We're asking questions here. If you do, please come to the microphone. Anybody in the public wanna speak in favor of or speak against, please come to the microphone. Alright. We did get a comment from the water commission. So that's on your, on your share drive. I saw that. Uh, and also I was, instead of paying attention, I was touring around the state GIS just other airport. So the ones Chris mentioned, um, great. Barrington and Hyannis are on an aquifer zone. Two orange is very close. Is she abutting it? Fitchburg, Northampton and Southridge are not, Is there anything done differently on, at those, um, facilities than a regular one that's not over the aquifer? Do you know, just Off the end, I, I wouldn't Did take product again from the engineer design the fuel system. So in a, an area where it's not over an aquifer, there is no tertiary containment. Okay. So it's just the double wall tank Okay. Itself and, and containment like, like the pad with the aluminum barrier. I understand that. Okay. So this, this one has tertiary containment and all of the storage of the hoses and the nozzles and the transfer of fuel into tanks and outta the tanks, that all takes place over the tertiary containment. Okay. The only thing that doesn't take place over it is the actual connection to the plane. Right. Um, and then the positivity barriers around the edge, that can hold about five gallons per edge. So 20 gallons total for the pad. Okay. Thank you. Yep. So can I ask while you're up there, yeah. Um, self-service, airplane refueling sounds like a new thing to me. How long has that been going on? I, I, I'm in the point of my career where I'm replacing systems, systems for, for doing this, And I've never heard of a catastrophe, so I gotta think there's not a lot. Um, pilots go through hundreds of hours of training, not only in living to fly, but also how to maintain and service their aircraft. Um, having watched my brother-in-law go through it recently, it's, it includes everything from how to change the oil and the engine to the procedures for fueling your own aircraft. Thank you. That's, I'm having a little trouble with that. You know, it's, um, you know, bill mentioned the, the self-service gas station, and there's always, um, you know, all kinds of automatic shutoffs and there's always an employee in that window looking at you. There are cameras there, there's a canopy that, uh, has fire suppression. There's a canopy that prevents the rainwater from mixing in with the gas on the ground. But you don't have any of those things. Personally, I feel better about the employee driving out with a truck and filling up each plane. You know, there's just no procedures here. There, there are definitely procedures, But there's no to monitor the procedures. So the, when the aircraft is being fueled Yeah. That, that handle, okay. It, it has an integrated dead man switch to it. Mm-Hmm. So you have to be holding that the whole time in order for fuel to flow. Unlike the gas stations, they have a little switch on the handle, you can latch it up and it keeps fueling and you can go fuddle with your radio, whatever. That's not possible here. Um, As so the devil's advocate, you can't take the gas cap and stick it in the thing like you used to have to do at the gas station. If people really wanna find a way around something they're going to, that's not the intended procedure. Okay. Um, and again, pilots are far more conscientious of this for the reasons stated. Um, and the, the difference here is that all the fueling takes place over this concrete pad and there are perimeter safety measures to deal with any spills. And you're also talking about a significantly fewer number of people than you are at a gas station. So how, how does, like the, the fueling pad get deiced in the middle of the winter? So like when they're fueling, you know, when they drive a truck out and they have a drip, when they disconnect the hose and they've got the mats to feed that up, that's still gonna have to occur here. And those, those, uh, equipment will be available to the public when they're fueled. So, and then like the rest of the airport, the, you know, snow is plowed off of it and, and cleared away. Okay. So if they, you know, they come in in the winter, do they put like salt on the concrete pad? Uh, Um, actually we cannot use salt mm-Hmm. Because it corrodes aircraft, because most aircraft are aluminum, especially the older ones. Okay. So we use, uh, an environmentally friendly, uh, potassium acetate pelletized on, uh, parts of the airfield that, um, can melt areas. But we do not use salt, we don't use sand, um, because sand is a foreign object. Debris we call FOD issue for, uh, jet aircraft, particularly fighters. So we just use a pelletized, uh, environmentally friendly, um, deicer. Okay. Does the, um, rainwater and the gas mix, does that go into some kind of separator or, I'll let you, uh, Chris, Chris, before you, before you go, um, I don't want to cut off your question, but while Chris, while you're here, assuming there's a federal regulation that somebody can't monkey around with the handle when they're pumping gas, is there signs that say consequences for, you know, doing something stupid that shows up on the camera where they get held accountable for? Yes. I mean, we will have signage there, like instructions, how to use the fuel facility, emergency shutoff. We certainly can put up the regulation that that would violate. And uh, like right now, if you drive around the airport, there are signs up about airport operations area following mass general law. There's a particular law, and if you trespass, you're in violation of that. So we could do something like that in that area for the specific regulation, um, whether it be federal or state, if you're not following the, the fueling rules. I think because NFPA is kind of the guiding, um, federal agency on fueling particularly with aircraft, um, we all work with the consultant team to get that appropriate signage. Okay. Chris, could you answer a question for me while you're there, please? Sure. Would you please explain to me what that environmentally friendly palletized solution is that you're gonna be putting down? What exactly is in that? So it's a potassium acetate and what I can do is I have the MSDS, the material safety data sheet that has that, um, and it, it's basically, it's used throughout the country. Um, in in years past, In years past, we used a product called Urea, which was, uh, basically cow p**s. Um, it was much cheaper to use on an airport problem is to put a lot of nitrogen into water supply. So, uh, we haven't used that since the early two thousands. We've been using the environmentally friendly Pelletized product. Um, the product we use is called New Deal, uh, runway Deicer. Uh, you can Google it and the MSDS is on there, but I certainly can get a copy of that to Jay. What, what's in that, I just don't know offhand the exact, uh, components and chemical. I just would assume that ending up in the aquifer, It, it, it could, yes. We, uh, we are required to do, um, for all of our storm water runoff at our outfalls at the airport, we do, uh, testing at least once a year, uh, storm water testing. We hire tie and bond to do that, and we have to report that to EPA, um, each year. So we monitor the, uh, and I also, uh, quarterly I have to go out, visually check these three major outfalls that get a lot of the drainage at the airport. So we have a checklist looking for sheen all sort, you know, foam smells. Um, what else is on that list? There's a, there's about eight or nine items and we have all those records, so you're certainly welcome to, to take a look at those. But we have processes in place to make sure the storm water from the airport pavements, uh, that are going to outfalls, um, are, uh, being checked. Thank you. Yep. Uh, we still have Phil's question. Oh, the Oil water separation? Yes. I'll let the team correct. Talk about how that works. So the picture over there, the upper right hand corner, you see a lot of dark lines exiting off to the right. So that big concrete tub structure, you know, will obviously green water, snow melt or whatever, um, will exit out the right hand corner. It goes into a manual gate valve, which is remains closed. So the airport, if it's a significant rain event, or they'll probably be checking it daily anyway, has to go and take a look at it and look at, see if it's just water or if there's some product mix with it. If there's some product mix with it, then they're gonna have to get it pumped out. If it's not, then someone can go over it, open up that manual gate valve, the water will flow out and right out to the right of that gate valve will be a water quality unit, water quality structure to treat the water. And then it'll flow out of there and they'll tie into the sewer. The sewer. Okay. So I said it's always closed, so, and it has to be manually done. So, you know, and it's always up to the airport. They gotta inspect before it, before they do anything. And I should, I'm Sure if there's any question about it, they're just gonna get it pumped out. One more question. Sure. Um, since there's no real fire suppression, is there a fire alarm on the pad? You have that one, Chris, sorry, hopped up quick on that and almost tri. Um, yes. So we're required under NFPA, we have to have, uh, fire extinguishers. Mm-hmm. There as well as, typically there's what's called a large Ansel, um, uh, basically fire extinguisher that handles a little bit larger spill or, or fire I should say. Um, we also have a 24 hour fire department. So when the emergency shutoff is hit, um, there are systems out there that can notify, like if it's run by the airport, that myself or my operations manager, we could get alerts, um, on our phones or in our office. I mean, if a plane is smoking, is there something to pull? Yes. So, well, the way it works, there's a, if, let's say if the aircraft's on fire, there isn't like a, a pull button, but we have a tower there and, um, they are right below this area. So if there was a fire, uh, the way it works right now is if there's a fire, it's usually reported, they call dispatch nine one one or notify the tower. If someone's in their aircraft and they're getting out or they have an opportunity, I have an aircraft emergency, please send the fire department. That alarm goes off right away by the tower. And, uh, the way our regulations are, the first firetruck has to be there within three minutes. The remaining ones have to be there within four. So we have that on the field. Um, it's basically that alarm system. We have radios. I can call the fire department directly and to the fire dispatch on airport and say, we have an aircraft accident. We have a fire, whether it's structural or aircraft, and they respond immediately. Even medical emergencies. Um, we had, uh, we had an employee, um, who, uh, passed out in the office and we called immediately the fire department and they were there within a couple minutes. And then Westfield came to support with an ambulance. So there are procedures in place, but I wanna be sure if there isn't like a pole alarm, like you might see like in a, in a building, they don't have that. There's emergency shutoffs and you can, um, get notified if, if that gets hit. You also have to check that, um, daily to make sure that works. Like you actually run the system and, and test it. So, Okay. Ask away. Thank you. I only have one more question, something that's piggyback off of what Phil said earlier. So you have fuel trucks that will go and fuel the, um, the planes. Now those would be, um, trained people that would actually go and fill those planes on a truck from a truck so you wouldn't have the customer servicing it themselves, correct? That is correct. With a, a metal field truck. Okay. You have a company that has line personnel. So this is where I was getting at with them. If, if a customer can come in and refill on their own from the refill tanks, um, I can understand where they're coming from. I understand this whole process 'cause I've been with planes for a long time, but I understand where they're coming from that why would you have somebody who's trained on a truck to deliver, refill the plane. But yeah, you can have a customer go and refill on their own when nobody's there to actually do it. When they normally do it. I would think that you would have, um, you know, when these planes are coming in, am I correct on that? You normally would know when they're due in? No. Do they have schedules? We, we know some, sometimes, uh, a transient aircraft will make a reservation or will get a heads up. But the, the typical weekend, someone visiting Tobi to go have lunch or dinner and they're flying in from Long Island or Albany, they're flying clubs that come in just to go to the restaurant. They, they don't make reservations. So These are, okay, so they're impromptu, Right? They, they just show up. We're a 24 hour seven day a week airport. We're open 24 hours a day. As I understand where they're coming from. 'cause it's, it's almost like, um, you're saying one thing but doing a different thing. You following what I'm saying? So there, there still will be mobile refuelers at the airport. And then hopefully we have a self-service. The the thing is based on the customers at the airport are base tenants, um, our airport commission and an industry trend for small aircraft. There is a, a, a price difference for when you pump your own fuel or when you get a full service because that truck has all sorts of requirements. Um, there's obviously a, a cost involved owning a fuel truck. So typically a person who's pumping the fuel is, is saving 75 cents to a dollar a gallon just by pumping their own fuel. And that's kind of been the industry trend. I get that for small aircraft. So it would either be the pilot or if they have a maintenance crew flying with them, they would be the ones we Feel like. Yeah, I mean, uh, usually on the smaller aircraft, it, it's pretty much the pilot, uh, are the ones that, that do it. Where are the fuel caps on an airplane? So typically on general aviation small aircraft, the fuel caps are on the top of the wing. So, so The person has to climb up onto the wing, take it and do this. Correct. For a high wing aircraft like a Cessna 1 72, you will have a ladder out there where they have to climb up and you have to be above standing on the ladder looking down to fill it on a low wing aircraft like a piper, uh, Cherokee or a war warrior. The the wing is more level. You can stand and fuel it and you have to look and see, but like assessed 1 72, it's a high wing. You have to get up on a ladder and stand, you know, look over it and fuel it that way. It just depends on the aircraft type. Any other questions? Do we want to close the public hearing? We want to continue. What do we want to do? You haven't let anybody speak? I would, I've asked, I'll ask again. Anybody have any questions? Anybody want to come up, speak in favor of or speak against this proposal? So Bill, we're not waiting for any other reports, right? No, But we're within our, still within our 35 day aquifer review period. So we have of, that has not expired yet. That's What it says. When, when does that expire? Uh, I think the 29th. 29th of November. I mean, technically it says you have to delay your final action until that time. So I mean, so we Technically you could vote and we could hold the decision until, until then to file the city clerk. 'cause that's the final action. But I think the intent of the ordinance was to allow those other entities to weigh in, which usually they never do. But If they do, it's usually pretty quick. Yeah. Well we did get the water commission, which was, um, Positive, which was We don't usually get any, so. Right. And I don't expect any other comments to come in just 'cause they never do. But the ordinance is 35 days. My opinion, I think we should close the public hearing and vote. Say that again, John. My opinion is, we, I think we should close the public hearing and vote. I Think. Well, we have somebody with a question or a comment. Please come forward. Microphone, I just looked. Vladimir Name and address please. Uh, one 11 Root Road, Westfield. And my name is Vladimir Ikin. Okay. I just looked it up some of the history. It's Michael Webb from 1987. He was the first pilot of this, uh, self-serving guest. And I think all the pilots prefer that. I just looked it up, the history of it. And I think it's 36 30, no, 300, 3000, 600 self-serving gas stations around, I think this country. And I'm just look looking, uh, reading up about it. And I think it's actually good idea for small aircraft, uh, to do it. I've been flying with some of my friends landing barns and other places. I think it's just, uh, I think it's good. I'm pro. I'm employed. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing? I make a motion to close the public hearing. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. We have a draft condition here. Uh, special permit, site plan approval, uh, subject property one 10 Airport Road, Barnes airport, draft condition one. The site shall be developed and maintained in accordance with approved site plan entitled with the description after expiration appeal, period, a paper and PDF copy of the site plan incorporating any modifications herein condition shall be submitted to the planning office prior to making application for building permit or commencing the subject site construction. Two. Upon project completion and prior to fuel dispensing, the applicant shall provide the board with a written statement that all work has been done in accordance with the approved plans and applicable conditions of this approval or otherwise noted. Um, again, this, anything we vote is subject to the aquifer 35 days. It has not, um, we, uh, should condition some sort of signage. I think. I think that signage should, um, at a minimum notify the, um, the pilots that they are over an aquifer and please be cognizant of, uh, the aquifer. Okay. You know, so if they are so subject to looking at their phone while they're holding this nozzle, okay, they should know that they are over an aquifer. Agreed. That's my opinion. I I like That idea. Anything else we want to condition? I, So I'll just note there was also a storm water waiver request, Um, As part of this as well. That, So it's in your findings. If you, if you grant that, I'm sorry, say that again, Jeff. It's included in your findings. The stormwater waiver. Okay. All right. Do I hear a motion? Can, can I just ask what, what are we waiving with the stormwater to use the existing Method? The System. So the stormwater ordinance allows waivers to be issued. Um, this is apparently triggered due to the amount of impervious added, I think over 5,000. Okay. Square, whatever the trigger was. Um, but it's not disturbing more than an acre. So, um, that's usually the, usually the ones you never waive because that kind of triggers the federal permit as well. Um, but the less lesser threshold is just in our local ordinance. Thank you. I did, uh, I did ask the city engineer if, uh, if they took any exception to that waiver. I did not hear, hear back. You didn't hear back? Um, yeah. Well, I said let me know if, if you take any issue with it. Oh, Okay. So they, So I will make a motion to approve the special permit site plan for refueling facility at Barnes Airport. Second, We'll start with Rich. Yes. Bernie? Yes. Phil? Yes. Cheryl? Yes. John? Yes. Jane? No. And I am a yes. Thank you very Much. Thank you. So, uh, I will to comply with the letter of the ordinance, I'll hold off on filing your decision until December. Okay. The 35 days starts The 35, yeah, The 29th this month. Thank you. Next on the agenda, DL homes LLC for special permit pre zoning ordinance four dash 20.2, lot size averaging to create a building lot from 2 55 South Hampton Road Zone residential. A Hello again. Rob Leve. Uh, I'm here representing deal homes for the proposed lot size averaging off of Southampton Road in Emerald Ave, um, and Forest Ave just to the north. Um, the proposal was, I believe before the planning board and I think it was 17. Uh, at that time I believe it was approved in the, the proposals for basically creating two lots from the subject property. Uh, an existing single family home lot on Southampton Road. And there is the, uh, proposed single family home to the rear. Um, we do have copies of a plan that were, uh, that's being proposed by the deal homes. It's, um, uh, I believe on your share drive. I can pass this around if you don't have this. But this is a, uh, proposed plan with a front porch, kind of a craftsman style look with the side, a garage to the side two car garage, and then rooms above. Do, do you folks have this Rob, that single family? Yes, sir. Yep. It's proposed to be single family and I believe it was approved back in 17. Happy to answer any questions you may have, but I believe, I believe all the numbers crunch and, um, again, happy to answer the questions. Could I see the photo? I'm, I can't find it on the shared Direct. If you don't mind, please. Thank you. Okay. I know I office. Okay. Thanks Rob. Thank you. Thanks. By the looks of this, you're basically turning Emerald Avenue into the driveway for this second, for this house. Yes sir. You paving down to paving from the main, from South Hampton Road down and into where the, the garage goes in the driveway. What are you gonna do with the rest of Emerald Avenue? Just leave it the way it is. Correct. So basically you're turning Emerald Avenue into his driveway. Um, we're paving Emerald Ave to that point, you know, the driveway would be there. Yeah. So I think you're accurate Because I went, I went down Emerald Avenue and that's barely a, barely a dirt path at this point. And you get down toward the back end, then it's even worse than the front end. Although sand is terrible on a motorcycle. Mm-Hmm. Do you know how much traffic that road gets during the course of a week? I don't. No idea. I do not. So is that the literal beginning of Springdale where it actually starts? Um, Looks like it emerald turns into Springdale. Yeah. I, There's no real provisions for, you know, common drives in the city of Westfield. So there's really no other route, you know, it couldn't come through the property. You have to go off of Emerald. I So, but you're using the, the frontage on Emerald for the frontage for the second house? That's correct. So Emerald is still a street as far as this is concerned? Yes. All right. Makes Sense then. So this is basically the same plan the board, this board approved several years ago. It's a little bit of minutia, but I would, I mean, I see why you put the garage on that side 'cause you're making your paving distance shorter, but from a practical standpoint, I would rather have the afternoon sun coming into my living space. Mm-Hmm. But that's a, we don't usually get into site plans for single family homes. It would melt quicker that way for sure. Does the city plow that road At this point? I don't have any details on the maintenance of em. Road app Myself. I apologize. Probably, Although, did you go down it? No, I thought it was paved. No, it's, it's fairly a wood road. No one moves on it. Really? You get down in the middle of his grass. These People, yeah, they don't care. These, Anybody in the public have a question of fact on this. Anybody wanna speak in favor of or speak against, um, lot averaging at 2 55 Southampton Road? Any questions people? Mm-Hmm. We have a draft condition here. Special permit infill lot size averaging subject property 2 55 South Hampton Roads, apparent parcel, emerald out draft condition. One lots shall be created, laid out in general conformance with the submitted special permit filing prepared by our Lebeck associates dated 10 25 24 2. The new dwelling shall be constructed in the style and size, generally conforming with the submitted house plans. Imagery three, prior to building, um, prior to a building permit being issued for the interior slash non corner lot EM lab shall be paved at the applicant. Lot owner's expense for width. Uh, not less than 20 feet in the distance to at least the driveway of said lot as proposed, except that the top paving course may be applied at a time prior to certificate of occupancy being issued. Pavement and based materials and methods shall be in accordance with the city of Westfield subdivision regulations unless exceptions allowed by city engineer four. To compensate for the loss of green space, at least one shade tree, two inch minimum caliper at planting shall be installed and maintained on each lot. Five. The rights granted by the special permit are twofold. A creation reduction of the lot for which this permit shall have been deemed to be substantially used upon the recording of the lot plan at the registry of deeds. Such plan shall describe the booking page in which This special permit is recorded. B, new dwelling construction commencement of which shall be subject to the three year time limit for action as pursuant to the general conditions. Six as required. Both last must be serviced by city water system. Anything else you want to add? Do I hear a motion to close public hearing? I'll make a motion to close public hearing. Second. All Those in favor? Aye. Aye. Do I hear a motion on special permit? I'll make a motion to approve the special permit for 2 55 South Hampton Road. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. You don't need to do a roll call. Okay. Oh yeah, I do. I'm sorry. I was thinking this was closing the public hearing. Okay. Um, all right. So we'll start with Jane. Yes. John? Yes. Cheryl? Yes. Phil? Yes. Bernie? Yes. Rich? Yes. I am a yes. Thank you. Next on the agenda, pioneer Valley Railroad Company, LLC for a special permit site plan and stormwater permit per zoning ordinance section three dash one, 30.346 dash 10 and four dash one 10 To construct a warehouse exceeding a hundred thousand square feet at AMPA Road. AKA parcel five five r dash 42 slash zero. Timber swamp zoned industrial A the applicant here? Yes, sir. Good evening again. Rob Leve for Pioneer Valley Railroad. Um, do you have that plan and color or you never send me The color? Never come. Oh yeah. How about black and white? Yeah, just so everybody in the audience can see things, assuming they haven't stuck around for nothing. Um, so this, this property, actually, Jay, is it possible to go to the, um, the, uh, GIS just so everybody knows where this is? So this is Amad Road Right here. It comes off of Service Star way. We have a do we pile, which is actually, I think this is an old aerial. I think it was, uh, developed more. This is a prop. This property, this property, this triangle and this property are all owned by Pioneer Valley Railroad. Now Penley Railroad, um, 'cause I think this is Gen code or Mez Tech or one of those, uh, facilities. I forget the name of it, but this is the subject property here. So our proposal is to cite a warehouse, uh, type of building that will utilize, be utilized or utilize the rail. There's a rail line that runs north south here. That rail line is directly adjacent to the east of the New Haven, Northampton Canal. So there's a little canal there, uh, that remains, it's been filled throughout the city of Westfield and, you know, north to Northampton and South to New Haven. Um, so there's sections of it that still have, uh, water in them. This happens to be one of the sections here. It's been filled a little bit farther down. And as you can see, it was crossed for Amad Road. Amad Road was constructed in the early eighties. From what I can tell, there was a, a, a number of plans produced by VHB, um, and then also went through the Mepa process at that time. So these parcels, this roadway and these parcels were arguably created at that time. So again, it's owned by the railroad. Uh, the proposal that we're planning, uh, is for, and this again, is the property. Here is Amad Road. On my plan. This hatched area that you see here is the canal. Directly adjacent to the canal is the rail. So the light dashed rail that you see here, uh, is the existing rail. There's a proposed rail spur that comes into our proposed building that's 156,000 square foot building that the rail cars will go inside of. There'll be an office area in the, uh, we'll call it the northeast corner of the building. Um, and then we have a loop road around the back. The activity, there'll be passenger vehicles kind of on the no in northeast corner of the property to accommodate the parking requirements. Um, and then again, loading and unloading of, um, con uh, you know, product within the building. Um, and then, you know, there would be a loading, there would be a loading docks here. Um, and then again, loop access for fire department, et cetera, getting in and out of the facility, the property. If we go to the topographic plan by chance, maybe two more, uh, this way down, I'm sorry. Down, um, uh, yeah, it's broken up into sheets, so it's gonna be a little harder to see. But the topography, these are the da the dash lines that you see of the topography on site, uh, drops this way. Each one of these represents a contour interval. So one foot contour, so it drops this way. Again, we have the canal. We have a buffer zone to the canal that's regulated by the Conservation Commission. We're current concurrently filing with the Conservation Commission. We filed what's called a notice of intent application for work in the buffer zone, um, to the south a little bit farther. Um, so this is the, the bottom portion of the site. So there's a, a wetland that's been delineated and determined by the Conservation Commission. Uh, there's also like an isolated, uh, pool in there. We're current, we're calling it a potential feral pool. Um, and the work that we're proposing is in the upland area in general. And then some of the buffer to, um, these areas. So the grading plan is a coupled down. So there's a stormwater basin proposed adjacent to the canal. Uh, this will be a wet basin, so it will have, uh, basically the characteristics are that it's set below, um, or set into groundwater. So the, the lower portion of the basin during low flow or during non storm events, will, will basically have water in it like a pond with some vegetation that's designed, uh, aquatic vegetation that's designed to handle, you know, that type of environment. Um, and then the, the basin, or sorry, the pond itself will, or the, or the wet basin will fill up during storm events and be metered out slowly towards the canal. Um, there's a a, there's also a, a next, the next sheet down. Two more, one more, sorry. Um, there's also a subsurface infiltration system, uh, that's located around the building to accommodate the roof, um, as well as some of the parking and then this stormwater basin. So it's kind of a combined system. So it's subsurface and surface. The surface portion is on the east side, directly adjacent to the canal. Um, the higher portion of the site, uh, this area here essentially will all be collected. All of the water will be going away from root road, uh, towards the canal. There'll be no water going to this in this direction. Um, we do have a pretty straightforward landscaping plan because of the industrial, a nature industrial zone, the property zone in the industrial, a district. Um, we have a pretty basic, uh, landscaping plan. I think there was a comment or multiple comments from your planner with regard to buffering of the neighboring properties, which is logical to us. The building itself is set 60 feet off the property 'cause it's an unlimited area building, which is, um, uh, a type of building that has to have certain setbacks based on building code, not necessarily based on, um, the zoning setbacks. So we have greater setbacks to that side and ample room to facilitate any sort of planting additional plantings that, uh, maybe the planner or the planning board sees, sees fit. So, um, we also have photometrics, et cetera. Um, but happy to answer any questions you have through the chair. I will be requesting a continuance tonight so that we can continue to vet the project with the Conservation Commission. Um, just to give the planning board some perspective, there's a weird, a weird regulation, a federal regulation called preemption, um, which essentially protects rail commerce, uh, as it relates to, um, what can and can't be regulated at the state and local level. So we are currently working through that with the law department specifically. Um, gentleman's name, first name is Eric from the law department. Um, the, uh, I believe there was a conversation as recent as today with regard to, uh, questions about preemption. So I do have that document. We will share that. Um, we're kind of waiting for the law department to, to chime in after that conversation, but I think it's interesting if nothing else. But essentially there's a, there's a, a preemption fed at the federal level that prevents local and state regulations from preventing rail dependent and rail related projects. And that's my layman's terms. So I, I will terms, so I will certainly rely on the attorneys for the details, but just thought it's interesting. We certainly are, uh, from a zoning standpoint, we believe we're meeting all the required setbacks anyway. Um, and from a conservation standpoint, really the, um, I guess they call it the sticky wicket would be, um, some of the work within the, uh, buffer zone. They have a new wetlands protection ordinance that, uh, regulates some of that work in the 50 foot buffer zone. So that's really where that preemption conversation centers around, uh, as well as the crossing. And I think I mentioned this, but just to clarify, the rail does cross the canal to get from the east side to the west side. So again, happy to answer any questions you have. Thank you. What was the name of that? Um, Preemption? Yes. Uh, that's, I think that's the term. So, um, no, What was the name of the, um, the law? You got the, the preemption, the actual That is, that is there's a, uh, us such and such. I, I could forward an email through the planner with all of that information. That'd be great. Thank you. Yeah, and I believe there was a discussion today with the law departments, so it's pretty interesting stuff. It's kind of neat. Okay, So Thank you. How many doors, your dock doors you putting on this thing? Oh, I don't remember. 15. Um, uh, please don't yell out from the crowd. No worries. This gentleman might be right, I have to confirm, 15 total, three larger sized doors, and then the smaller doors that you see here. And those are all along the back. Yeah, they're on that side south end, right? What's that? On the south End? Yes, correct. Any idea what's gonna be warehoused there? So there are two other facilities for Pioneer Valley Railroad, um, that I believe they're going to try to consolidate into this facility. They have a, they have a facility on lock house road, um, I think it used to be owned by Ron Short, Horman. Um, they're storing some stuff there. I can get the details. Um, but there, I, I believe it will change, you know, potentially change on, you know, based on need or yeah. Stuff over time. Basically a drop off in truck out kind of Thing in on rail, out on truck, um, already in, already down the street, just kind of moving it to the facility that they own. They're right now leasing that other facility. So this is actually, this property is actually owned by Pioneer Valley Railroad, which is a, nor a, a local short shortline rail Railroad. So they're not gonna be, um, uh, warehousing their, their, their train cars or anything like that? It's, no, no, no, this is strictly for commerce itself. Commerce. So it's for, for bringing product. Okay. So the freight's gonna come in by rail or break it down in the building and send it off by truck? Yes sir. Okay. Yep. Thank you. Rob. I've been clicking on the GIS and I see some wetlands. Is that the conservation hiccup? So there are wetlands, I think I mentioned that. So there's, the canal is regulated as a wetland itself. Is, is the canal parallel to the train tracks or, Yes. Directly adjacent to and parallel with. Okay. That on the other side of the railroad tracks where this, That's, yeah, I apologize. You know what, I have a color plan that will be a little easier. I apologize. So let me just, I'm go by color here and I'm sorry for the folks in the audience. I was just piggyback up John. I was trying to figure out where the 71,000 plus square feet of wetlands is, and I was wondering if it's on the other side. No way. It's 71,000 Square. I'm not sure what you're referring to is 71,000 square feet of, well, I'm looking at the application here, the zoning determination application towards the bottom where it has the list, how many acres there are and goes all the way down. And then so what area? Yeah, so I can clarify. So this entire area here is upland. There's a canal that is a manmade canal that was dug for the new, it's a new called the New Haven North Hampton Canal. This like, we'll call it darker green here. That is the limit of the canal itself. It's crossed here with a, with an, with an existing culvert, um, that was constructed for Amad Road. It does not exist really, uh, to some extent north, uh, and south, depending on where you are on the canal. Um, we're proposing to cross that canal with a box culvert bring the rail line over into the building. This dash line represents the area within the building that the rail cars would stack. The building itself is 156,000 square feet proposed. I believe what you're probably probably referring to is there is a wetland, um, located this light area here. Okay. That's the wetland that you're probably referring to. Uh, technically, um, portions of the canal are within the property limits. So there are portions. So that's square foot. I'd have to, you know, I'm not sure the, the specific square footage you're asking about, but this, as mentioned earlier, is a, a large wetland area that will not be touched. We're respecting a 50 foot buffer from that wetland there. Mm-Hmm. And that area, uh, around that will be protected in perpetuity. The only area that we're really going anywhere near that is to get the rail line in and there's no way to do that. So rail, as you can imagine, you don't want a rail car on a slope. So the maximum grade for a rail line coming into a site like this is about 1%. So almost flat. Right. Um, that's one of the constraints. The other constraint is that we're dealing with Amad Road that already has an existing elevation as well as the center line radii for each sweep into the property. So we only have so much play with where that can go, how, how much of a corner a rail car can go around, that type of thing. So that's what's why we're sweeping in very gently. And then running into the building here. And again, that's super flat, so there's a grade over on this existing rail line that we kind of have to work off of so we can't climb too quickly or drop too quickly. In this particular case, we are climbing, but ever so slightly, almost flat, but just a very subtle climb getting into the property. So this is the wetland that you're probably seeing in the, in the application. But Rob, it looks like the rail, the trail, I'm sorry, the rails, uh, are in the buffer zone. Is there any exemption for allowing for a rail to do That? Yes. So the preemption, uh, covers that and it covers the local bylaw. It covers a lot of the state regulations. We're adhe, we believe we're adhering to the, from a conservation standpoint, we believe we're adhering to the requirements, but there is the magic bullet of the preemption as well. Okay, Thank you. So we've intended to meet all of the regs and we believe we do, certainly from a zoning standpoint, we believe we're meeting all the criteria. How many trips a day are you thinking? Are the trailers coming out Of here? Um, I could, uh, I do believe that information is available. I can get that for you. I don't have that, um, formally I'd rather get that a little bit more formally for you. It's based on the facility that right now it's currently based on transferring their other facility that's on lock house road. I believe there's another, I think there's two warehouses there that they utilize. They're also connected to the rail. It's a similar type of operation. So the bat side. Okay, so this here is gonna replace those two? Correct. Alright. So whatever's coming out of those two won't be coming out anymore. Although there's be Well someone else could go in there. So ultimate, essentially, right? So there's that. Okay. Yeah, Yeah. I answered my own question there Rob. I'm a little disoriented. Sure. Um, where I, and, and I'm at a disadvantage. I don't have my distance glasses. Where's AMPA Road on that? Um, If you were to just draw it with your finger. Okay. See, Circle kind of sweeps down Then ser service. There's a whole other parcel over there. Correct. There's a so there, yeah, you're absolutely right. So yes, so this parcel exists. There is another parcel that's wooded right here. And then the road, say the road's about here, and then there's another wooded parcel. Those are all three of those are owned by, um, the railroad. Okay, got it. Would those two other parcels, why did they elect to use this one with all, with all the problems? Good question. So we are proposing at some point to use this one. We're currently working through, uh, this property right here is, is not subject to review by the endangered species program because, uh, they have, they have a tur they have active turtles in this area. Um, but because of the rail in the canal, turtles aren't pul, I guess pulled off. They Don't cross the rail in canal. Apparently they don't. So, okay. So I'll Believe that if you will. They're not Trying to Well that's what they're, that's so this, this isn't mapped. Um, but this is, so we're, we're working on that separately. That would likely be before you in the future separate parcel, uh, separate application. But that would like just, you know, but as far as the rest of their land, it's really, most of it's unusable because it is wetland on the other side of ampa. It's real high groundwater out there. Yeah. On that side, this high, this site is much higher in elevation than even this site and then this site down here. So yeah, most of that, and I think you remember there's a data center that folks were thinking of that was delineated over there, and I would say probably 90% of it is, is wetland. Yeah, they had to work it around the wetland over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know it's wet in there. My, I had to pull my son out of a mud hole over there with his Trucking. Um, anybody in the public have questions? You're, you're here clearly for this. Please come forward, ask your questions. This is Mike Lannan 71 Road. Um, I have questions about the spur and where it crosses the canal and how it might affect my property because I think it's gonna create a dam because this spurs gonna raise the tracks almost four feet above the existing vernal pool. So I'm afraid the water's gonna back up against that spur and flood my property more. I live, uh, on this section here, this canal goes all the way across Root Road. So Rob, before you, right before you do, what's the spur The rail, the rail spur coming into the site? I think you're talking about. Um, so there's if, do you mind coming up? I'm sorry. So, so just to clarify, so this is the North Hampton New New Haven, north Hampton Canal that's green here. So that you might be thinking of the wetland area that does come from Root Road. So there is a wetland resource area that comes from Root Road as a gentleman mentioned. I think you're talking about this one, right? Yes. My property. Okay, gotcha. So, you know the que the question is related to this. So this is an area that ponds in the spring. Um, they, it will likely be determined as a, as what's called a vernal pool. Under the endangered species regulations. They like us to certify those to provide additional protection. We did talk to the conservation Commission about that. We anticipate that that will happen. So this area here won't be touched. Your your point about the question about, um, the potential for the spur is a good one. The spur is just north of where the low points are. Um, in that, um, where that pond could potentially overflow in a major event. Um, right now we were not able to, and frankly, um, we, we were looking and so was the commission, uh, conservation commission looking for a connection here. There's really no current connection to the canal. Um, again, uh, in a major, major storm event, hurricanes, multiple hurricanes, that type of thing could certainly, probably happen. Um, so that would sheet flow over the lip of what, what exists out here now for topography. Um, and then would end up running to where the canal currently is. So this, this canal is still here. It's here we're proposing a box culvert to be located from this point here to this point here. Um, so I think the short answer is it would still overflow to the canal, um, as it does now, we would, this, this would not be creating a dam Also had a question as far as the doors would, was there any effort to try to locate 'em anywhere else on the building and maybe put the retention pond or the wet basin somewhere else on the property? Yeah, question. So, good question. So the topo, the way that the site is oriented, you can see it's oriented from north south. They had very specific requirements because they have two other facilities in town. They needed, this is actually, believe it or not, smaller than they wanted. Um, so they needed to accommodate those facilities. So we needed a certain size building that was one component. The geometry of the building is based on the geometry of the lot, um, coming in on this side. Uh, the only reason we have anything around this side of the building is because we need to have the fire loop road, uh, to make sure that we, that that's adequate for the fire department. Um, but the way the lot slopes, as you're probably aware, kind of drops like in this direction towards the canal. Um, the only real place, because water flows downhill, the only real place we could put the storm water was here. Um, so really we didn't have a lot of, honestly, did not have a lot of play with, you know, turning it, turning. It wouldn't have worked. Different size building would've prohibited the construction of a stormwater basin here where the water is flowing to. Um, so, and then the wetland here kind of inhibits, uh, or prohibits us from, uh, you know, going any farther south. So I did see on your plans that it did say part of it was in the heritage zone, but yeah, it's right here. Well, I guess it says it's not located, but I swear on my plan at home, I, I had come across it and I thought it said it was, part of it was in the heritage zone. There's two plans. So there are two, there's probably another plan that you've seen. So we filed what's called an, an rrAD, an abbreviated notice of resource area delineation with the conservation commission to determine the wetland boundaries determines the boundaries for three years. We typically do that prior to filing a project so that we know where the wetland boundaries are before we start figuring out where we can put buildings and stuff. Um, so we did file that and that was filed for both properties. Um, and on that plan, there is very likely a note that would say, and you're, you're probably very correct, is that this property here is within the endangered species program. This is not mapped at all. We're not subject to their jurisdiction, but this property and a number of other properties are when we did the a Dewey pile development, that little addition that they did there. Well, the big addition that they did there, um, we filed with the endangered species program, and we are currently communicating with the endangered species program with regard to this piece here too. And if I'm looking at the plan, right, there's a retaining wall that you have to build around this to hold the, and do you know the height out here yet? Yeah, we Do. Um, so the, the wall varies, uh, and height, depending on where we are. Um, we have basically a grade break on the backside of the building where, you know, the water, you know, where the water will flow one way and then the other. Um, so it does vary. I can give you the heights, but in general, um, we're, this side of the building will be lower, so hopefully somewhat less vi visible. Um, and then over here as we get towards where the topography iss kind of funny, but it, you probably know it comes up here and then kind of drops then down again. So we have a wall, you know, we have a wall that's actually this, it's higher here, but we're cutting here. So it's, it's, it's kind of, but I can get you those tops and toes and, uh, certainly we'll be doing a site visit, um, I believe this week, later this week, or early next with the conservation commission. If the planning board would like to do a site visit, we would certainly be happy to accommodate. But, um, it kind of easier to see when you, when you see the property. But so, So the plan says nine feet plus or minus in that area. I'm not sure if I have the opportunity to bring this up yet, but this is all very low. It's almost like a valley, and the sound carries, like you wouldn't believe, and I'm just afraid with the activity being on the back here, it's just gonna carry right down the canal and just disrupt the whole neighborhood. Okay. Um, any other questions? Do you have more questions? No, I'm good. No, you, no, you yourself, sir? Yeah, I'm good. Oh, okay. Good. Um, anybody else? Please come to the microphone. Thank you. Rob, did, did you answer his question about the noise? So, yes, good question. So this is probably the most active side of the building, to be fair. Um, so the south side, uh, I believe this is the Gary property, uh, to the, to the south. So there's a big field here. It is zoned industrial, a likely in the future will be developed as industrial property. We have the canal, we have the, a dewey pile warehouse here. So the most sensitive receptors are really on along, in my opinion, a long, um, root road. Um, but the fact that, you know, there is, the gentleman is absolutely correct. It does drop down, but it is wooded and it is going to be, uh, buffered. If there's additional mitigation that would potentially be needed, we could certainly look at that. But there's probably, Uh, If this is a hundred, I'm just gonna give you a rough idea. This is, this is a hundred feet from here to here, approximately. So there's a hundred feet of vegetation. Uh, this area does have vegetation in it, but a lot of it's inundated, uh, because it is an area subject to, to, um, you know, flooding, uh, I dunno if flooding is the term, but puddling, um, and then another 50 foot. So you're, you're talking about on two, you're probably close to 275 feet of a vegetated buffer that will remain on that south side. But it is a good question. Um, there's certain decibel levels that can't be increased. We have a noise ordinance in the city of Westfield. Certainly, um, you know, hours of operation are important. Uh, these folks are in town already. They wanna be good neighbors, so certainly something we could look at. Thanks. Questions? Yes. Um, I'm above Name and address, please. Tom Pierce. And I live at 1 23 Route Road, which is my lane, goes like over to here, so I'm like diagonal. So I'll have two warehouses. Yeah, one on one side, one on the other. So my question to you is, because you're taking a narrow piece of property, which has water problems, and it's kind of, so you're taking 150, 6,000 square foot building and shoving it into a small space, so you don't really have enough buffer. I mean, you have a butters here. I know we bought houses along a industrial thing, but if this wasn't so big and crammed in, you could get a bigger buffer. What is the buffer? That's my question. Do you, Do you, that's okay. Yeah. Um, so the, Rob, do we have additional questions? Yeah, you know what? If you want Yeah, do, if you have additional questions, do me a favor, ask all your questions all at once, please. So we can answer 'em all. Alright. I want to know the width of the buffer, okay? Because these are all people's backyards. Okay? We're looking at this. Mm-Hmm. And it's gonna have lighting, noise, et cetera. Okay. All these green spots, are they leaving that wood? It? Yes. Okay. That's one question. And it had to be shoved against the neighbors. I know you said you wanted to be a good neighbor, but because of you're putting such a large facility in a small space, technically, I don't know why you didn't build it over here, but, so you're kind of like really pushing yourself into people's backyard, into their houses. Literally. I, I just wanna make sure we're asking questions of fact. Okay. Well, and that sound like a broken record. I know. I'm looking at a, you're you're asking, so you're looking, have you have, has any of the council gone to, or the commission, have they visited this site? Any of you? Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. I did. Yes. You have. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm. Yes. Do you feel that it's crowded well With the trees that are there, it's, and you know, you, you get down on that circle there, and you, I couldn't see any houses over there. Now granted, when he's gonna put this building in, it's, it's going to eat up. I don't, I don't know. The setbacks he's got, they're Gonna clarify It, sir. But to, to answer your question is if it conforms to the rules and regulations. Okay. It does. If, if it conforms to the rules and regulations, then they have the ability to put that size building in there. If it does not conform to the rules and regulations, then that's our job to make sure that they do comply. The size of the building has to conform to the rules and regulations. Whether we feel it's big or not, has no bearing on the project. Again, I said that, I read that earlier. Okay. We, uh, we have to check certain boxes and if it, if this checks the box, they can put that size building in there. Okay. Now, as for your question about the width of the buff buffer, um, Rob, do we know the width of the buffer? Thank you, sir. Um, so just to give everybody some perspective, the property is zoned industrial a and on my, on my zoning or on the plan here, I have the zoning table. So technically this setback would be a side setback. This would be the frontage. Okay. So you have a front setback here. This would be a side setback. So based on the industrial a requirements, it's 15 feet, believe it or not. No. And that's not what we have, but that's, it's 15 feet. Now that's from the building to a property line. We have 60. Yeah. So we, we actually have, no, no, we actually have 60 feet. Um, but there's this, so there's a, so tech, just so I'm clear, being clear, a building could be put technically in an industrial, a zoning district, 15 feet from the property lane. Because of the size of our building, there's a building code requirement that requires us to put it 60 feet away. So it's six. So it's, so our building will be 60 feet away, but because of it's 60 feet from here, from the building to the property line is 60, well, it's probably like 61 or something like that. But the, um, the trick is we have to have a fire road around the outside that's 20 feet wide. So that's what's here. So then really what will be available, there'll be some lawn area, right? That they'll maintain in front of a wall. There'll be a wall, and then there's this, uh, existing vegetation to remain. Or we could look at planting something new or separate. Um, because arguably that, you know, there will be a big building behind, no question. There's no, um, it, well, it'll be set in a little bit to the grade, but maybe we could go to the aerial and might be a little bit, we could, we could walk over there if it's okay with the chair. Um, so, you know, we have a lot of existing vegetation, but what happens is when we clear for the building, you know, what's, what's actually left there? Is it a good buffer? Sometimes not. So do we take it out and put a new AE buffer or some sort of buffer in that's, or do we leave the mature vegetation that's there on our property? You can see that. The good news is there are, you know, there most of these yards, except for maybe this one, these are pretty well vegetated. Um, so whatever you have in your backyard is probably similar to what, what they have here. And from what I walked, it's mostly mixed deciduous. There's maybe some evergreen, but mostly deciduous. You know, there wasn't a lot of understory that I saw when I was walking through there. So, I mean, so if it gets cleared and you just have oak trees or something like that, you know, there's not gonna be a lot of significant buffer. So the question is, do you leave those oak trees because you like the canopy or do you supplement with some sort of screening that, you know, really screens the building? So, um, we're open to both ideas, um, and certainly would take input from the planning board. Uh, and we can even go and walk it with folks that have, we know you have yards that back up against this. So, again, similar to what you see, just to the north, right? So they have, they have some vegetation that was left. I don't know if that was native. It looks like it, it does look like it was native, but again, you might be looking through trunks of trees as opposed to, you know, if we were to plant something. So we're certainly open to those ideas and it, it is something that will be visible. Um, just want to confirm, if I'm re understanding this correctly, this is the east side of the building. There are no dock doors or anything like that. It looks like there's just a couple, um, emergency exit doors. That is correct. All, all activity on this building will be either the south, that's where the dock doors are. Yep. Um, or the northeast. No, and northeast would be where passenger vehicles would park. People would come outta their cars, go into the building there. Yeah. Do you have any other questions, sir? No, that's, sir. Thank You. Thank you. Anybody else with a question? Please come forward. Can, can I just, um, correct something here? So there's a little conflation between the setback and the buffer. So the setback is just the distance it needs to be from the property line. So yes, 15 feet, but the ordinance also requires a 20 foot buffer. So a planted screen, visual screen, which this project does not provide. Um, so that is on top of the setback. So the actual buffer needs to be a 20 foot actual visual buffer. It might be evergreens or whatever. I don't think by the time you excavate for the wall and all that, I think they're basically clearing to the line with this plan. So, um, I mean, it sounds like that's probably the biggest issue is the screening from the neighbors. So that may be something the applicant wants to take a harder look at. But yeah, we would, We would agree with that. Um, we can accommodate that room to accommodate that 20 foot. Um, we should probably even meet with the folks that live there and see what their specific concerns are. Okay. Exactly. My question is, um, Name and address, please. Oh, Gina Akin, I live one 11 root road. My house is the one that has the less vegetation. So I am very concerned, but my question is, when is the operation hours? What time are they coming in those trucks? What time is the railroad working? Because we can hear that railroad real loud. I mean, in the morning it wakes you up because it's so loud. And I mean, if we're gonna have trucks right in our backyard, I have a family, I have children, we have, we go to school obviously. So this is a huge concern. I mean, this is, is this gonna disrupt? I'm a very, very sensitive sleeper and, and I work three to 11 shift. So by the time I fall asleep, it's very difficult. So when, what time are those trucks coming in there? What time is the railroad operating? I mean, these are lives we're talking about, so we wanna know what we're looking at. Um, do you have additional questions? No. Oh, Thank you. Yeah, those are all really good questions. So the, I can get the details from the facility down the road. I think that would be appropriate. Um, I think most of the rail activity will be during business hours. Um, normal business hours, certainly, you know, this is an area that has some sensitive receptors in the area. Um, there are the ordinance requirements. So I think it can easily be regulated. I don't really know that they would be moving rail cars after hours. I don't know if they, do they do that on the one next door? They do that with The trucks. Okay. The company That they meet all hours a day, All hours. Okay. So, yeah. So they obviously, I'm sure don't want to be overly restricted, but they also, you know, are running a business. I'm thinking, you know, really the only, I can't imagine they're running rail cars late at night, but I, I need to find that out for you, The trucks. Um, Anybody else with questions, please come forward. Thank You. Um, Chris Sia, I live at 74 Road. Um, first question is, is the pre preemption act, what year was that passed that we're looking at? So we can draw some parallels. The timeliness of it. Then what is the finish height of the building? So from Root Road, are we gonna be able to see the building over the treetops, um, and disrupt the view from there and up in the mountains, uh, farther up. And then, uh, just a comment. Uh, the train whistle goes off at five o'clock almost every morning. It wakes us all up. Yeah, just so we're on the same page with that was on. We understand we live there, but if they're gonna do this now more and every day, um, that's gonna be a problem. We need to have some operating restrictions for this to the lives that live out there. We live in the country for a reason, and we want to make sure that we can still live our box. So I think I got those. If you help me with maybe a couple of the last ones. So I do have, um, a, a memo regarding preemption. So it's long and there's a lot of case law and there's a lot of information there. So, uh, I can forward that to the planner. Well, who can make it available to all of the folks in the audience, uh, and any abutters that want it. Um, the, the email that I have is between Karen Bevel, who's in-house counsel for the, uh, Penley Railroad, which is, uh, the owner of Pioneer Valley Railroad. Um, and this is an email and a memo provided to Eric Valdez from the City of Westfield, um, law department. So I'll forward that to Jay. Um, that was the first question, so I apologize I that, but that will have all the information that you had requested. Uh, just For reference, I believe the year is 1841. That, that would sound right. I mean, makes sense. So Yes. And they've upheld that law with a lot of case law, so Yep. I'm really surprised. Understood. So if the board Wants some advice, If the board wants some advice from our law department, I can ask, but until otherwise, I think we would just proceed in the normal course of the zoning review. Okay. They will have, uh, they do have this information. Mr. Valdez has this in, or Attorney Valdez has this information, so if you want to see it, um, certainly and I, we'll make it available. Um, that said, again, we're not requesting anything outta the ordinary with zoning. We're happy to meet the buffering requirements and think we can do so. Uh, we are also happy to meet with the neighbors. Um, I think the gentleman's question was what I, will I be able to see the height of the building, et cetera? Um, I think what would be helpful, maybe we can put a cross section together, uh, of the existing topography from the neighbors, what, how much they'll see. But, um, that's all going to also be affected by that buffer and how tall that buffer is. So, um, we should, we will look closely at that. And again, if they, these folks want to give me their information, I can certainly meet them out there and see and try to help them visualize what the concerns are. And we can look at specifically at their property line in that 20 foot zone, whether it makes sense to leave vegetation that's native or whether it make, or frankly, it probably doesn't. It probably makes more sense to, um, buffer that with, uh, significant, uh, you know, vegetated buffer and potentially, you know, fences, et cetera. So we can look closely at that. And I don't know what, the other question, I think Last one was the train whistles, and I hear 'em at five 30 at my house, so Why do, yeah, I don't know how that works. It's not normal Business hours. Yeah, I honestly, I mean, so so they must be operating somewhere. I can hear the train. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I can hear the trains down on, um, you hear 'em in our neighborhood right near Walmart, you know, across from Walmart there. I can hear 'em in our neighborhood. Yeah. So I hear 'em by the college. Yeah, my guess is it's not gonna stop, but I can ask them what, how it works and why. And I think part of the thing with the whistles is they've Gotta blow 'em every time they go over a road crossing. No, with the a with the problems they've had with trains hitting cars and people, they've stopped, they've clamp down because they were running the river, which is why you would hear 'em up to your place. And through those fields on the north side of the river there, these little crossovers about every hundred yards, they gotta blow the horn. Every one. So what they do is just get on at the beginning and run the whole length of the horn blowing. Yeah. But every time they cross through a crossing, they gotta blow the horn. That's federal regulation. And they've been really pushing that real hard. And I do apologize that, uh, Jeremy Levine, who is the, uh, project manager for Tinsley Railroad is, is very knowledgeable and has a bunch of, uh, information that he could share. He's taking a, a night class, um, for his master's degree or something like that, and was unable to attend tonight. But I will see if he's potentially available for the next meeting. 'cause I think they'll be able to answer a lot of the operational questions that I, you know, I, I certainly will ask them, but it would be nice to have somebody here. Any other questions? Questions of fact, please come forward. Well, go ahead. Doesn't matter. You have about 15 more minutes. 11. Mayor can, one 11 wrote by looking at the plant. I know we have a canal, right? And the railroad wouldn't be easier instead of going over the canal to go on this side if it's all belongs to the same place. Right? Yeah. Good, good question. So yes, it would be a lot easier. Uh, unfortunately, uh, and I, I'll give you a general perspective in that, that plan that I referred to earlier, that Arad plan, uh, it's a abbreviated notice of resource area delineation. It's a, it's a wetland plan that gets filed with conservation. We, we had the wetlands determined on this property and on this property, we did not determine the wetlands on these other properties, but they've been delineated. So we have an idea, but there's a significant amount of wetland on this property. So there's probably, and don't hold me to the number, but it's probably less than, I'm gonna say, three or four acres of upland in a lot of that upland because of the city of Westfield's. Uh, very recent, uh, fairly recent, uh, zoning ordinance, which requires you to stay away from those wetlands. Um, there's limited area, so they are going to use a limited area on this property for a lay down yard as well. Um, there's plans kind of in this vicinity. Um, but a lot of this other area is kind of riddled with wetlands. Back in the eighties when they built the industrial park, um, they have high ground, fairly high groundwater, but really sandy soils. So it's kind of a weird combination. Um, the, there's wind rows of material when they, when they excavated and kind of cleared everything back in the eighties, they left soil in rows, but in between what happened was they kind of excavated out and got too low to the groundwater. So it kind of created these wetland areas. So, so this in general, this site is not overly developable in this area. It's really limited to an area kind of near the rail. So that's why, that's what we can't, we wouldn't be able to fit it. I missed It. No, no, I didn't. I I, but I, I kind of alluded to it, but I did not say it. You're, you're not wrong. Lisa Landon 71 Root Road. Yes. Is it strange that it's okay to do stuff with the wetlands on our side? Yeah. On the other side that you were just describing? It's a no go. Um, I'm sorry. Can you ask the into the microphone please? Oh, sorry. Um, he was just saying the wetlands on the other parcel, it's, you can't touch it. Excuse, Excuse wet. Excuse me a second, Jay. Is it possible to bring the wetlands up on that? That's not very Accurate. Yeah, it's, It's not, the Mapping doesn't show all the weapons. There's more weapons than there are, But it'll at least give a magnitude of scale. Mm, no, yeah, it does. I do have the, an man, I dunno if Jay has that. Probably not. It, Um, I mean, you know, the conservation's gonna deal with that anyway. Okay. So, Well, all right. So, so go ahead, ask a Question. Okay. Yeah, that wasn't even on my list. That just came up all of a sudden. Um, I'm wondering, um, what's going to be stored in the warehouse if it's hazardous, if it's flammable. I don't see anything for sprinklers or any fire. Um, if, if something catastrophic, say it's full of paper and it catches on fire, what happens to our neighborhood? Like, what is, are there emergency procedures in place? Um, Can I, is it okay through the chair for me to answer one at a time? Sure. I, I, I read them down, but That's okay. It's very late. So It's been a long week. So to answer the first question, I know it's not germane to the planning board, but all the, we, all the wetland regulations are the same no matter where you are in town. Um, we have very specific requirements of what we need to meet. There's the preemption discussion that is kind of an overarching discussion, but generally speaking, all the wetland regulations have to be met to the extent practicable. Um, or you have to show that there's no, uh, uh, alternative to, you know, impacting either wetland or puffer zone. So that's, so, so, so your question is, the answer to your question is there's no difference on any property. Um, the second question was Related to what's going to be stored There. So as far as storage there, so this is going to be a warehouse for the rail. So, uh, I will get the details of what specifically they plan to store there immediately upon occupancy, which is subject to change over time. I guess the short answer is, um, there are no specific water resources protection, uh, prohibitions on what can be stored there. So anything that could be, I think the fair question, fair answer to you is that anything that could be stored in an industrial, a zoning district legally, um, and legal to the fire department, everybody else, um, could be stored there. So it could be really any material. Um, there is fire suppression. Any building over 7,500 square feet requires that there's a sprinkler system, fire system. There will be alarm systems. There's going to be a, a water loop, all these different requirements for fire suppression as well as access based on NFPA requirements for fire access. So all of that will is required. There's a ton of regulation on that. Also, the fire department typically requires like an a, a material safety data sheet, I think it's called, where essentially anything within the facility, um, has to be documented. Anything that could, is potentially toxic. Um, there's also other OSHA requirements for people working in the building where they can't work with certain types of materials or if there is certain types of materials, there are different regulations. So that is all super regulated. Um, if there was a fire, um, the fire system would likely go off, um, fire department would be called, uh, or alarm would go off and notify them immediately, um, and they would have full access around the building. Um, there should be no, uh, the reason, actually, I think one of, I'm pretty sure one of the reasons the building is required to be 60 feet away from the property line is so that you're not daisy chain chaining a fire from one building to the next or to a residential property that might abut. So, um, Um, so do you know how many employees will be there? I do not know specifically, but they do have that information. I, I don't have that off the top of my head. And again, I can bring Mr. Uh, Levine to the next meeting. The, um, fire road that you're talking about, is that gonna, will that be, Will all of the trucks leaving are gonna follow, like what's the path once they dock and fill up? So the vehicles will be able to come in on this access road? Um, they'll basically come in and they'll be able to back in to the docks. Um, this loop road, while it's not prohibited, is not designed, uh, for that. We've only designed it to, uh, for a width of the fire trucks to get through. They want typically want a minimum width of 20 feet so that their outriggers can be laid out. Um, so this is really just a fire access road. Again, this area is a parking lot. This area is a parking lot, but that's, that's designed for passenger vehicles only. Um, Um, and two more things, if you don't mind. Um, the fence on top of the retaining wall, could that somehow be like a privacy fence? Okay. And not like chain link? So could be, Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, it could act, so there is a, so the retaining wall based on the height will require, um, a four, call it a four foot fence minimum. Um, but a stockade fence certainly could be, uh, installed in, in addition to the buffer. I think there's a hybrid solution where it's a stockade fence, maybe that's taller in nature, um, than normal, or, uh, maybe has some sort of, uh, acoustic component to it to prevent sound from translating. I would also suggest that not only where the wall is here, but maybe we would wrap it around and, you know, try to prevent any of that sound from getting this way. Um, and then again, a lot of the vegetation here will help. And then the Gary property is located there. So The, the vernal pool area, is it a hundred? You're within the hundred foot buffer. So what are the rules? Is it a 50 foot, you know, the parking lot and everything's kind of in There, so that, that is definitely a conservation thing. But if it's okay with the chair, I'll just give a quick answer. Um, so a, the, the vernal pools are regulated slightly different. It's not necessarily a vernal pool yet. It has the characteristics of a vernal pool. There's a process for certifying that with the endangered species program, which we essentially agreed to do with the conservation commission. So we will certify, say we certify that as a vernal pool that gives it additional protections. But right now the city of Westfield has a 50, uh, well, they have a hundred. Anything within a hundred feet of a bordering or isolated vegetated wetland is regulated. Um, isolated wetlands are regulated under the local only, only the state does not regulate them, believe it or not. Bordering vegetated wetlands are lo are regulated by the, both the state under the Wetlands Protection Act and also under the local ordinance. Um, I can definitely, so I'm not boring them at a late hour. Um, I could definitely explain a little bit more after. And Anna Messick, the conservation officer, is super knowledgeable. I'm sure she'd be happy to talk to you and we certainly would as well. And we will be before the Conservation Commission again. I think it's next week, So, Alright. And my last question, sorry, is, um, if everything goes through flying colors for you, how quick is this gonna proceed? You know What, I think they were, uh, I think it's a 2025. I, I would almost guarantee it's a 2025 project if they do it that quickly. Typically the, I believe the permits are issued for a period of three years. If they start within three years, that's considered starting and the permit is active. Um, the Conservation Commission issues their permits for three years as well. An extension could be granted, but typically I would expect, uh, one to three years it would start. Thank you. Thank You. Thank You. Um, we have time for one more question. Anybody else? Any B Bill keys one 17 root Road? Uh, my property's right here. Um, the fire road and the height of the building, what type of lighting are you gonna have lighting on that fire road? We do have lighting proposed. Um, really all we need is, is safety and security lighting on that side of the building. There's really no activity planned on that side. Um, we have a photometric plan, uh, we can look at that closely based the, based on the way the ordinance is written. City Westfield has a new lighting ordinance, actually, if you guys are familiar with the soccer facility. I think that was a lot to do with that. Um, so they have a new ordinance that basically says that there can't be a spillover of foot candles over the property line. So we have to do dark sky compliant down lit lights. Um, they're typically on, on the, where the doors will be. We'll be a wall pack over the doors that will be down lit, kind of like a viper style, uh, head on it. And then, um, you know, we can also, uh, work on that screening and, you know, stockade, fences, et cetera on that edge. So to work on preventing any sort of spillover. Absolutely. Um, the parking lot, the, you said employee parking lots up here. Yes sir. Are they gonna have access to that fire road to get out? Um, there will not. So We are not currently planning on restricting access, but there's really no reason real, uh, we, we don't want the vehicular traffic to cross pollinate with that. I guess technically if the fire department was okay with it, I don't know that we would have a problem with restricting that with bollards or something. But typically the fire department wants unrestricted access on a building of this size. So, you know, we could say, do not enter, put a couple, do not enter signs. And the fire department could do that in going if they want. So we could restrict that to some extent. And certainly, um, you know, with signage, you know, there's no real reason for anyone to go all the way around and then be conflicting with the trucks. So I think we could really focus in making sure that all the, the, um, passenger vehicles and activity for the entry is, is set that way. Good. Thank you sir. So I think this plan does show light poles along that rear or eastern line, western line. Yeah, there's probably some along the edge. If it's on the edge, it probably would work better to, to keep it away, but again, somebody could still be looking up at it. So we're, we're happy to look at that. That's, that's the edge, right? That's mm-Hmm. That sides the concern for sure. Do we have any additional questions? No. Does the board want me to ask the law department Do Anything? Do you have any suggestions for us? Well, I mean this, this preemption issue came up in some correspondence, so I just Yeah. Um, We don't have to, I just, we, I Yeah, we're gonna get a look at that. Yeah, we're gonna be able to read it and look at it. I, I guess I'd rather look at it and say, okay, if we need a legal opinion, then we'll ask for it. Right. Okay. Usually when it comes to railroad stuff, it's pretty straightforward. Railroads get a lot of leniency, always have. Um, so our next meeting would be December 17th, I believe the first week is usually right. So it would be December 17th. Is that fair? That would be great. Um, okay. We did, we did get some brief comments from the, uh, uh, stormwater folks. Mm-Hmm. Uh, so we have those questions answered already. We just wanted to make sure that there's no changes or adjustments with the conservation commission. Um, but then we hopefully be back in a position we're, again, happy to do some site visits should any of the members want. And I will, uh, give these folks, um, not my home number, but I'll give 'em my office number. Uh, no, I'll definitely, uh, make sure I'm available to take a look at their property lines for sure. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Would you just email us when, when You're gonna do that? Yes. If I'm A call, I'd like to go. Well, I mean, you really shouldn't be, I shouldn't go. Okay. I mean, you can go on your own. I know. But, um, without, Without aqua Talking to anyone about Oh, you're really, if you don't discuss it without a quorum, I think you're okay. But, Well, it's kind of a breach of public hearing. Yeah. Okay. I, I'll just, I'll get out and Trove around by myself. Take a, take a ride. It's a nice hike. I've taken a ride, but I haven't Gotten out and walked around. Yeah. So, um, okay. We have no other questions. We have a, we have a request for continuance of December 17th. Do I hear a motion? I motion We continue until December 17th. Second. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Good. We'll see you on the 17th. Thank you. Um, thank you all for participating today. Thank you very much. Um, a lot of really good questions. Okay. Much and happy Thanksgiving. Next on the agenda is other business. Do we have any other business? We don't, but I'll just, um, in light of that last discussion, um, we have our new rule or planning report rule, uh, three point 10 about ex parte communication and Well, um, um, excuse me. Can we take discussion outside? Thank you. Thank you. A lot of people are So, yeah. Um, just to the conversation with Jane. So that rule is about, you know, not taking in any information outside of the public hearing. So especially talking with the applicant or applicant's representative where all the parties don't have the ability to, to know what's I got it. Yep. So yeah, I'll have Ken go with me so I'm not out there by myself. I get lost. Um, so we're meeting upstairs next week, right? Yeah, December 3rd was our, our retreat at the third floor. Yep. Um, I think ADUs will be a topic for discussion. I think ADUs ought to be a big topic. We have to do something with it, right? Well, we don't have to, but is that passed? It's past the state. Yeah. Oh, I thought it was proposed. No, no. It goes into effect in February whether we do anything or not. So we should just make our zoning match state, but we can, we can add a few, uh, protections to it. So I'll try to draft something on that for then. And then if anyone else has any topics, you shoot me an email, we can get it on the agenda. Um, anything else? No, we got a bunch of paperwork to sign. Okay. And last is future agenda items we already just discussed. That sounds, I hear a motion to, um, dismiss. Aye. Make a motion to adjourn. There we go. Do I have a second? I All those in favor? Aye. Aye.