##VIDEO ID:frPAwje60EM## good evening everyone this is the finance committee it is Tuesday January 7th 2025 at 6:32 I'd like to call the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance Al to FL the flag the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation God indivisible with liberty and justice for all under master General Law chapter 30 section 20f this meeting is being recorded the meeting is held being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GLC 30A section 20 and on March 29th 2023 Governor Healey signed a supplemental 2023 budget Bill allowing for remote and hybrid meeting options for public bodies through March 31st 2025 well welcome everyone um thanks for coming I'm GNA announce who's here um so myself Karen Rouse is here Al for uh finance committee members I'm announcing Al Le Cindy Brown Hugh Morton Duncan law are in attendance uh Zack lau and Gary Carrero emailed me and said that they could not attend tonight so they are not here and Christopher Thrasher will be attending ending later so when he comes we'll um we'll announce that he's here and I don't believe I've heard from Michelle Orlando but I don't think she's on so she is not here so she is absent all right well um We are continuing with our fiscal 26 budget meetings so tonight we had on the agenda to do the town clerk the Fire Department in the Board of Health trans forestation and animal control um there's a a fire emergency so it does not look like we will be doing the fire tonight but we are starting off with um Kristen the town clerk so um hi Kristen we'll get started with you hello all right hi how's everybody doing good all right for a cold night yeah I'm pretty cozy I got a he of blank get on me I've got my SC yeah I've got my scarf around me I'm cold yeah I have a little cold today so I'm just kind of cozied up after work so yeah but that's right so how do we do this thing I don't remember um well um we have your information that you sent to us so thank you so hopefully we all had a chance to to look at it um so we'd really be asking you to kind of give us any highlights or any major changes in your department or budget uh you don't need to go line by line unless there's something of significance or unless someone asks a question about a certain line so just maybe the highlights of of what's happening with your department and what's going on all right so I would say that the um the town clerk budget hasn't had any huge significant changes I continued with some of the training and such that I had year prior um that I um will be attending some conferences and things like that to continue my education in this position um and I did you may have noticed that I did increase my um salary line beyond the normal um 3% um I feel like that just aligns with the other department heads and other Town clerks but if you ever want to know more about that I can tell about that um well why don't we why don't we let's ask that question there because you're you're an elected position right I am yes and so um all elected positions are very specifically at town meeting in its own article and so you're you're suggesting uh so I think other so let's let's go through what were you what are you looking at for I think the town is doing what two and a half half percent overall is that what the town did they up it to three I yeah and honestly I didn't figure out exactly what the percentage was the percentage increase I know it's from 77 431 to 85,000 which I feel aligns with the other um department heads a lot of them get paid significantly more but they also have more experience or there's a variety of other reasons or they've been here longer um I think it also aligns with the other Town clerks across Massachusetts that that range is usually somewhere between let's say 85 to 100 for a population of our size um I'm keeping it on the low end um I feel like I'm kind of at the beginnings and we don't need that huge of a jump even compared to the other salaries in um in other departments and such so that's how I came up with that number I just cross referenced all of those things and I figure the town meeting will decide whether or not that's realistic or not no when um when you met with Jim Harton at the Town Administrator did is did he put that do you know if he Incorporated your request in his budget or he did I I believe he did um he said that he would recommend it okay am yeah um I had I had initially submitted something a little bit different but it was right in the middle of election time and every and he was is like okay I need this budget now so I just kind of and then after I did a little more research I decided to lower it a tiny bit just to okay align a little bit more precisely with comparisons terrific thank you Cindy's got a question go ahead Cindy uh not so much a question really just a a confirmation um yeah as many of you may know the uh Personnel Board in conjunction with the select board did a compensation um view uh an extensive compensation review and I will certainly uh confirm what what Kristen is saying that uh the salary for our town clerk was significantly below what uh other communities um were paying smaller and larger than uh than than Westport so it certainly would put her in line and uh I certainly appreciate her comment about you know kind of working away into the position and this is kind of a range and she put herself kind of really at the you know the bottom quartile of the range of um of what town clerks um uh are uh are currently being compensated in other communities so um I certainly can confirm uh everything that she she indicated you know when you think about the role of the town clerk particularly the way elections have become over the last few years it's really become um very um significant position and one with a tremendous amount of responsibility it always has been but it seems to be highlighted so much more in the last uh in the last 10 years or so so um that the salary that she's indicated there would U not only keep her in line with other department heads at um in town but also other Town clerks in the uh in the overall area that we had surveyed thank you cind thank you Al go ahead excuse me I just want to make make the point that that uh I have absolutely no no problem at all with with with Kristen's uh you know request for the increase shouldn't we be looking at the overall cost of the the department and not just you know specific be things because from a budgetary standpoint what what goes out the door is is is not her um salary per se but is her salary plus you know others and you know other other other expenses so I just I just um I just think that that that that we should look at the bigger picture instead of of just an individual salary that that's my coin definitely yeah thank you Al okay thank you for for just addressing that while we were going down so go ahead so I'll let you on the other parts the um office supplies all those kind of things I've lowered a few things here and there just because I don't feel like they're um as necessary I feel like we have a lot of supplies we have a lot of things you know so um obviously we we continue to need those but um I've been trying to tweak all of both departments I've been trying to tweak the budget significantly I think it's kind of just stayed the same for many many years with just small increases and I don't think that we've necessarily looked at um how things were being spent and I know that sometimes at the end of the year people kind of try to spend a little extra you know get some extra supplies on board but I'm just trying to look at what the realistic needs are for the office and right now I feel like um I was able to lower it a little bit in accordance with that and then I'll continue to look at that as time goes on um the postage I can't remember if I increased the postage sorry it's been a minute I didn't increase it but I didn't lower it significantly to align with the years prior so last year I had increased the um postage cost because I was planning on getting a lot of things online and I knew I would have to mail those out but then we would have Revenue coming in to replace that cost admittedly I did not get as many things online as I had hoped um and the beach passes um ended up being going going on to the beach committee this year I have started to get the items online and I think I'm going to have to level out and see what that ultimately ends up costing in Postage and most likely I will have to readjust it again probably lower hopefully depending on how many people are using the online system but I want to make sure we're prepared to be able to pay for all of these things um like for instance I just started doing shell fishing online for the um for the family shell fishing permits not for commercial because I need to check them a little closer but um I started doing that but people have a choice between either picking them up in the office at no charge or they pay a dollar for me to mail it to them and then obviously point the postage is under 70 cents but it just it gives me a balance of always just saying okay I don't need to up this and change it every year by a certain amount it's a dollar it'll probably be a dollar for several years for me to mail you a shish license you know and then that's gonna come into my Revenue which is something that wouldn't have been there before and hopefully these things will offset the budget ultimately especially as I tweak them as we move forward and do more reports and find out how this is working um so that's pretty much it for town clerk unless you have questions about the town clerk specifically and then move on uh Hugh has his hand up so go ahead Hugh couple more points one of your most interested in the shelfish license is there an option for somebody to print it out at home no currently we don't have the option to print it out at home um it's really more the system we use that doesn't really allow for that we may be able to ultimately email people it or something like that but I don't want it to um be that LAX at this point because I want it to have the signatures on it from the select board like it normally does I think we need to get used to the process and make sure that we're meeting all the regulations and such before we Implement that although it's a it would be lovely to do that that sounds very good I asked only because yeah when you talking about the cost to mail it that if there was an option to print it yourself then you can say charge five bucks or sort of a luxury if you don't want to do it yourself will do it will'll charge more but since not I think your dollar is fine the other question I had to start with was in terms of supplies I applaud what you're doing is there a protocol for how supplies are are ordered I'm thinking now not just your office but around the town hall or further do in terms of suppliers uh volumes discounts that kind kind of stuff we generally work with um so Nicole sets up any particular companies that we might work with specifically so um we do have an Amazon business account and we have a WB Mason account that sort of thing um the Amazon I think she just set up that business account and I think that comes with some discounts and such um but you would need to order through her which is probably for the best I UL ultimately we all order our own supplies it sure the best plan I mean you guys can discuss that or whether or not having a stockpile of supplies someplace makes sense too but that's between you guys I think I'm sorry I think that is more the department heads Etc that and and it's not now I understand but that's to me would be a good project to consider whether it would work it may be that Amazon has certain supplies you need that others don't and vice versa but if they're all sort of covering the same stuff yeah probably going to do a lot better on discounts of having a prime supplier who gets more volume and is aware of it anyway that's Amazon is usually a much lower price for office supplies than some of the office supply companies and generally Amazon is a lot less expensive so sometimes what I do if I want to purchase something is I research it amongst the options that we have and then I reach out to Nicole to see if there's um if she feels like there's a better option that's how I handle it I don't know how I'm not criticizing I'm just saying that there maybe it's a project for next year to coordinate with others in the town with savings by consolidating purchases of the same stuff from the same location that's all yes yes thank you and if and and if you need pens I would I would just go to BOS bank they have a big bin and just walk in and just grab them that's good I'm sure Nick I'm sure Nick Chris wouldn't mind I'll just ask you to supply those swing by I'll I'll text you I'll text you and say Al I needy thanks all right so I think you can move on to your second budget thank you okay so elections and registrations um there's a significant decrease because of there being less um elections in 2026 overall uh that being said if there's a special election I didn't really budget for all of that and and the reason why is because I have um I've been working on getting grants every year so I apply for Grants every year for a lot of our election expenses and we've been getting a decent um flow into a grant budget that's been helping with um election related expenses so that that would be enough um as far as I believe to handle a special election so that's why it's decreased so much um significantly and um yeah do you want to ask a question before I sure I think we've got two two two up um Al go ahead no Cindy was first I'm sorry I always mess up which the order if I go down Bott that's quite all right Alis such a gentleman um thank you H um so there's been some discussion uh Kristen about perhaps next year's election the precincts May be combined that is my goal is is that going to will that also have a much more favorable impact on your budgets going forward I mean even in multiple election years that um so the precincts would all be combined potentially at the high school correct at the new high school yeah and um they would be have a professional service day that day and move it over to the elementary school so that would be great I mean I think that would help in your pole workers um yeah it minimizes requirements for pole workers it minimizes um the requirements for police presence presence is important because that's actually a pretty decent chunk of the expenses is the police um they try to keep it low but just who is available to do it for an entire day they get um you know they get time for that so right um and for you running around you you have to go to one of those precincts as well right during the course of the day I drive a lot on Election I just drive in circles Precinct to Precinct doing stuff and getting phone calls and texts so it's um it's a pretty pretty busy day for me and I think that it would be better for the voters for me to be present in one location and really be able to sit down with people and um help my help my staff be successful right so um but financi think it will um we'll see a difference it won't be huge because it's there are still requirements of the number of Po workers and that sort of thing but it will be significant it'll um we'll notice it good thank you no problem thank you go ahead Al yeah excuse me my only my only Point um really is is comments that I've I I've seen in the past somehow the town and maybe that's you Kristen maybe it's somebody else okay needs needs to address for people when do we when do the polls open at 10:00 when do they open at 8 o'clock when you know the back and forth it it's it's not a negative it's just somehow and I I don't have an answer for it certainly but yeah uh it's state election Town elections yeah well you know maybe it's through Facebook because you know maybe people don't uh you know look at the town website I I'm just pushing it you know as as an idea um I've recently started a a Facebook page so I've been posting all that since before the election so now I just need to have more followers but I do post it on the you know we the people and the Westport Mass it's just that it's a slow growth process fine um but yeah I've been working on getting the word out more the newspaper so was just my comment Kristen is and it's nothing against you it's just you know some confusion of uh of of of of that so it has nothing to do with finance committee so we should probably get off that subject that's fine yeah everybody has these questions while you have a chance pop in the office anytime and ask questions if you no I'll be there all right so other than that let's see postage is still a little higher than was in the past um that is due to um the new project that it's not a project it's a state requirement that every June we have to send out um notifications with postage on two cards so with return postage um for anybody who has not returned the census and that has um not happened in the past and it is required so we need to do that moving forward so I went ahead and so the postage didn't get completely removed or anything because I knew I would have to do that mailing um for that as well as whatever else I end up needing to mail we vote we mail a lot in the registrations office um there's more than you might think with the automatic voter registrations that happened through the RMV and things like that so there's still always postage needs so that's probably the other other than salaries I would say that's probably the other higher expense yeah Kristen I've got a question for you so on your election on the budget we're talking about the election in um yeah the line item uh non-clerical PT it looks like it went from the fiscal 25 budget of 37,000 in in then in the fiscal 26 request it's down to 9800 What hap what's that line that is pole workers okay and police and um things like that so because we had so many elections previously um it has gone down significantly and okay there yeah I don't know the last time it was that low 2022 yeah that would make sense I guess yeah so we just lowered it and also I've done I continued to shift some things around from they used to have um everything was kind of combined into like election ballot assembly and things like that but that was I'm trying much harder to appropriate funds where they act or expenses where they actually should be at place um so some of those numbers are shifting just because some things are shifting to the right category you know or shifting out of the wrong category or wasn't necessary in the first place so just I I still think that you know I'm fairly new to this position so I'm still kind of cleaning it up and figuring it out and honestly I just took over really handling the bills directly for the election for the registar office um before someone else was handling it and I was overseeing it but now I'm getting a better grasp at exactly what's happening in there terrific thank you problem well you know I'd like to thank you too on on the town clerk's responsible right for all the postings of all our public meetings that we have problem you've done you've done a tremendous job turning the commitment to have that schedule online so we can all go on and look at that and you can click right on and see what the agenda is for the meeting it's really fantastic and so I can't tell you a few years ago I would have to run to town hall to go look at the posting at the elevator and I was thinking this is this is crazy so it's really appreciative the effort that you've put into um to doing that so that's that's really appreciating feel free to thank Carla if you ever see her because she really handles most of that she's right you know we both set it up together and figured out what would work best for her and then she's the one who really handles it unless she's out of the office for some reason so that's fantastic you ever see her shoot her a message all right thank you at least show her appreciation right that's my thank yous of my yeah yeah definitely any anyone have anything else for Kristen or do you have anything else for USS um I don't think so I'm looking at it I don't know feel free to send a email if you miss something or you have a question about anything we we still yeah I'm sure there'll be some adjustments As Time move forward moves forward but all right all right well thank you for coming we appreciate everything you do so thank you thank you lovely meeting thank you thanks for putting me first yes absolutely thank you by all right so as we had mentioned our fire chief is not here tonight due to an an emergency so uh thank you Matt and Tanya for jumping on a little early so much for trying to have a schedule to not have you have to come too early and then one cancellation throws us off so thanks for jumping on a bit early so no no problem great thank you it makes it a little easier right being remote so um not so hard to jump on um so thank you so um we're you're here tonight to talk about the Board of Health annual control and transfer station budgets so I'll let you take that away okay so I set the memo over to the finance committee or to you Karen and um so we'll start with the Board of Health um on the Personnel side of the budget um all the board of health staff increased by a 3% and um some of the other things like Career Education incentive longevity sick buyback all those increased appropriately uh due to the contractual obligations and the expenses on the board of health side of things are all level funded from the previous year I don't know if you want to go into detail on any of that or not no we were um uh we did get your your uh presentation yesterday so that was forwarded so um you we definitely don't need to go line by line into the budget unless there's something of significant increase or unless the some finance committee member has a question on anything in particular any questions on the board of health budget no no okay pretty straightforward K I don't have a question but I want to give a tip of the hat to the Animal control officer our very quite affectionate cat bit me last week and though came and was on the ball and took like he the cat is embarrassed and under quarantined for the next 10 days no jeez otherwise he did a very good job nice guy yeah he does a great job Nick he really does um T you go ahead um I just sorry my camera's not my camera's not working tonight um uh I just did want to mention you know we're we're absolutely living with a Board of Health budget but we did ask for an additional part-time clerk which um was not recommended by the Town Administrator and I will tell you that um with the you know increasing um population increasing workload I'm seeing real signs of strain in the office staff and it's just I know it's true for every department but I just want to sort of reiterate the concern that um there's you do more with less there's there's a point where it doesn't work anymore and we're not at you know we're not at a crisis point but it's it's just it's getting harder um and we see that in um in lots little ways so just just a note I know you there's nothing to be done about it at this point but just uh wanted to put it on the table yeah no that's appreciative to to know what what was the what was your budget dollar request on something like that it was right around 25,000 25,000 for a parttime okay yeah it would have been non-benefited uh right around 19 and 3/4 uh hours per week okay go ahead Al I'm sorry and what would that what would what would that position um um be you know what would they do so they the position would be the same as the uh clerks in the office do now help with the cter answer phones uh uh we have some programs that we run um that require permits um we'll say like the dumpster program there's quite a few and it's a a large um task to try to keep up with all the haulers to maintain uh that those records and to make sure that all everybody's permanent and all the money's coming in as it should so uh stuff like that we would take off of the um the burden off of the the main two clerks and have some of these other projects done by the parttime for just to help with the workload right I'm not sure I would recommend it right now I I think at some point I think there's more backup information that needs to be done Matt just uh you know not being negative but you know you take things off and that's fine but it is somebody overburdened and Tanya said you know it it's not overburdened particularly right now but it may be in the future so so I think in the future uh you know there needs to be a critical uh kind of mass of of here's the reason why other than just people are stressed out well had we had um if this was something that we were going to move forward uh we would have I would have been better you know I would have been more prepared to present more detail to you guys tonight but it was just kind of a side note I think that t was mentioning so that no gut it gut it I'm nothing on you I'm I'm just I'm just saying that that if if that becomes a critical uh you know issue next year or whatever um we can certainly discuss it but you know some backup info would be would be helpful for me sure yeah I think it's it's like anything else like it's important to to have the side notes just as as you just did because it it it really helps reiterate that you know we have these these leaks that we're we're putting our finger on on on the leak and at some point um it we just can't contain it and so it's just it's it's helpful to understand where all the the stress fractures are right are you know not that we can do much about everyone but it's important to to know all of them because there's there's only a certain amount of money and there needs to be priority to where it goes and if the department doesn't even express that they have a need then it goes to a department that expresses it more right so and it it's it's important that we know all of them so that we allocate it appropriately um Tanya you have your hand back up I was just gonna respond I I appreciate that and we didn't formally you know try to uh go over um against the town administrator's recommendations and and formally request it um I'm I guess I'm just saying that if there comes a breaking point we'll have to look at the programs that we do that are not statutorily required but provide a lot of Revenue to the town um and you know if they're not statutorily required we may have to say okay that's the thing we have to drop doing and so there's an impact both on um on on the potential expenses for the Board of Health but also on the revenue side so it's it's kind of a a tough thing because the Board of Health brings in a lot of Revenue um from all its fees as well so again we're not asking for anything this year I'm just putting out a little hey there f we might be back right absolutely thank you uh Hugh go ahead okay and I'm not making any suggestions but along those lines no if you're gonna make less money by dropping a program that doesn't make any sense it's a net net figure is what counts but there may be things that are being done that others can do that are desirable and useful but available from some other sources so that's a you have this in mind I'm sure see if there is something that could be illuminated to make room with the same Revenue to cover the things that could add little boost and you have that in mind I'm sure thank you great thanks all right mat I think we can move on to the next budget that you have which might be the transfer station is if you're go in your order of your memo yes yeah so um again staff increased by 3% we asked for an increase in overtime by $1,000 um and um our transfer station worker which is the the job classification Tim Burns he announced his retirement um which was well after we set the budgets for um fy2 so we were kind of caught in a little bit of a pickle um at different points in fy2 with um certain things but we managed to make it this far and we'll we'll get through the rest of the year I'm sure um but the FY 26 budget had to be um adjusted accordingly which I indicated on the memo with the new position for the transfer station forming that was created and that came with a higher pay rate and um which we had to adjust the um budget accordingly in the Personnel side um of the transfer station to accommodate that terrific so it looks like like your memo said you so you just said you're going to try to get through fiscal 25 with it otherwise there could possibly be a a a request of The the Reserve account to help accommodate that yeah right now we're we're right right to the Bone right now we can't yeah we can't have anything go sideways on us but um hopefully not and we'll be able to get through the fiscal year if not um I'll be sending you in an email yep absolutely all right thank you on the expense side of the budget um we asked to increase the uh electricity line item by $500 to cover the yearly expense at some point in time I think it was maybe uh last fiscal year we used to we didn't pay any electric bill because we were getting credits from the the solar but that got taken away and that next thing you know we started getting a a bill down there so um we had to adjust for that accordingly um again vehicle repair and maintenance with prices going up all around us so we had to ask for um an increase to cover the increased pox and labor that we see out there every time we have the truck go in for some kind of Maintenance um Sydney do you have a yeah I I just had a quick question educate me uh Matt on the solar credits now you say those were taken away um how does how does that work what why were those credits were they temporary was there a time restriction as to how long you could collect them how does that work you know that's a that's a question for Jim I don't know I just know that you know for the first four or five years of uh over there we didn't have an electric bill and it had something to do with the solo uh credits that tatan was getting and I don't know why we don't receive them anymore at least at the transfer station um and I don't I don't have the the answer for that I just know that we get a bill now okay all right um so you don't you don't benefit any any longer or ever directly from those solar panels right there in your yard the transfer station doesn't but I'm sure that the town in other places does but you don't you don't you don't get the benefit directly no okay all right thank you but I think Jim uh will have a more better more complete answer on it's a another question for him okay thank you among many right yeah we'll have to just pull them out of a box okay uh gas and oil you know uh we uh we've been doing a lot of driving with our vehicle and um we just with the prices of gas and oil um we had to ask for an increase on that and contractually with our hauling fees uh we have a contract with cast on a Wareham and our contract this year is going up uh which is a $4 increase per a ton So based on our average tonnage that we did the year prior um we needed to ask for a $5,000 increase to cover that um recycling program we asked for an increase of 2,000 you know cost to dispose recyclables in uh is requiring an increase to cover costs and the consultant for the landfill monitoring for the Post closure increased by 2,000 so we had to um ask for $2,000 to cover those costs so Matt quick question on the the transfer station Foreman so I think you just hired them yesterday or got permission to hire them right is it in your fiscal 26 budget numbers now the form position so it's already in there yes okay perfect okay great thank you um any other questions on the transfer station no oh Sindy you're muted I do have one more sorry how how close are you to break even at the transfer station with your increased uh fees for the um for the permit for the for the car for the sale of the cards and the U fee uh for the the tag H how close are you to break even so it depends on um it depends so if you're asking me break even on indirect costs and direct costs or you asking me just on our expense side of things just on your well both I mean on your expense side of things you know including salaries and your and the fees for you know tonnage removal and your recycling fees I mean how much does it cover you at 75% at one point I thought you were pretty close on the just on the expense side of things we're close if not we break even for sure um it's when you get into the indirect cost side of things um we did a study a few years back and you know we were at one point in time we were within 10 or 20,000 I had I'd have to say we're probably within that same realm of maybe 20 to 25,000 of uh breaking even on costs indirect and direct okay so that's not too bad no I think that's I think that's important to know I don't think people realize you know they look at it as an expense and don't realize that you do collect a tremendous amount of Revenue as well I mean you know I know that it costs a lot to maintain the transfer station but I don't think people realize how close you are to where it's not really that much of a heavy financial burden to the town you know there is some but it's not a tremendous amount Cindy I just chime in that over the years that's right it went from a very big differential to pretty close very good job right yeah good okay thank you yeah um all right so moving on to animal control um you know we we tried to hire uh somebody um from the last time we met last year when we added after town meeting when we added the um fy2 24 budget the extra 28,000 to hire a part-time Animal control officer and not until you know the last month or so did we we've got really two viable candidates but at the same time we the that money was we were informed that that money was getting removed from the FY 26 budget so it really it really didn't you know make a lot of sense to keep pursuing that um if the money was taken from the budget so um in Tanya can probably talk a little bit more about that but we would just you know we just didn't pursue it um because the money is no longer in the budget for FY 26 it would be nice to have somebody to to assist Nick to you'll give the town the complete coverage that I think it deserves um but um go ahead Tanya yeah I I I just wanted to reiterate we really appreciated the support um the strong support from the finance committee um and Matt spent a lot of time you know bud developing the budget the job description working with a Personnel Board trying to negotiate a a rate that would attract somebody um you know and we did bump up uh Nick's uh salary a little bit because we couldn't have a part-timer come in at more than Nick you know so it was a lot of time and energy spent um and it was still a challenge to try and recruit uh candidates and just when we had you know as Matt's mentioned two uh strong possibilities that he had talked to we're about to start the you know the interview process um when when he was notified that it the money wasn't going to be there for every 26 and it's not fair to hire somebody and say uh oh you know this is only till July 30th it's just I mean June 30th um it didn't make any sense to spend more time and energy on a relatively feudal uh uh effort um and so again I wanted to um acknowledge the strong support that you provided last year and we we worked really hard to try to implement that um but um you know we reached that dead end go ahead L just an FYI on and and and I really think that the uh the Animal control officer does a great job so so this has nothing to do with the Board of Health particularly or the Animal control officer but interestingly enough when we account for uh people and and and cost deer for example which by the way Westport according to the uh the Boston Globe is number one deer deer kills in Massachusetts is not part of the animal control officer it it's the highway department so I'm just I'm I'm just putting that out as as that there there's a lot of cross cost if you will um you know that that we don't necessarily account for in in in uh in in all the things that the town uh does for the U you know for control if you will so I just wanted to toss that out thanks Al so you know I still support the ACO position I you know I don't know that I might advocate for it again um I advocated it for last year and I think I'm GNA Advocate again um you know it's it's removed from the Town Administrator budget in the initial draft because he's trying to get the ba the budget to balance and the revenues are really not known yet for what the state is going to do um so it's been removed but I don't necessarily agree with that um you know we all have our opinions and we can we can choose to uh suggest appropriation if if if it's appropriate but um I don't count it out as far as I'm concerned um go ahead Hugh I you suggest you make it a footnote looking for possibly a little money left over someplace out of the cushion or someplace like that look at the real figures and we know what we might squeeze in or not squeeze in keep it in mind yeah I mean it's the same it's the same story that we all you know out said last year you know you've got one position one person trying to cover seven days a week 3 24 hours a day it's virtu it's impossible um of course and you know you need some sort of backup and and there isn't any and it's really really short money to um to to take care of that so it's the same same argument last year it I'll repeat it um go ahead Tanya H again I I appreciate that support um the but the we're squeezed between two count travailing forces and ping ponging back and forth is is just um it's a lot of time and energy and you don't know yeah it's just too risky to try and hire somebody and and you know not know if you'll have the funds I mean that's just not fair to put somebody in that position so it is um oh I'm not at all suggesting that you would hire somebody now until the certainty that it's in the fiscal 26 budget so I I I wouldn't support hiring somebody now and potentially it wouldn't be funded I think it you know it's like it's any position that if if you didn't if you didn't do the hiring before the next budget cycle comes that that position always becomes the biggest risk of being cut because it's always easier to cut a position that wasn't hired versus cutting a person that is currently existing then you don't cut that one so so based on the timing I think that's you know that's that's part of it so I I wouldn't I would agree that I would not pursue currently to hire a position unless until you till it can get firmed up or back in the fiscal 26 budget if we'll we'll revisit if if if something changes in the process and I'll just one more note um we uh Al is correct the highway department handles deer because they have the heavy equipment that can move a deer have it so it but again it's it's a way you know how do you present that full picture of what it really costs to manage animal issues in town beyond the ones that animal control can handle and the police department serve as backup for emergency you know there there's a lot more that goes into it it's just because we have to we don't have a robust animal Control Department so we have to rely on others we don't have the equipment we don't have the manpower to fully manage it within uh within one Department um right it's a it's a good thing you don't have to handle the whales on the beach yeah yeah all right anything else on the ACO budget any other questions for well I have a couple other things go ahead I'm sorry Matt go ahead so just U just want to keep going so on the expenses so the vehicle repair the the van is aging I think it's in so when I did my Five-Year Plan for the Capital Improvements I think the van is on for FY 27 in that request it's getting old it has has its share of issues it's um you know more and more things seem to be uh breaking down on it um we did ask for a $500 increase um to cover some of the costs to to to repair the van because it's been in and out of the shop quite a bit um but we it wasn't recommended by the town administr TR so um it's difficult because right now it's been at the shop for a couple of weeks it has a it has a major repair hopefully it's done tomorrow um so the ACO has been using his personal vehicle which I appreciate that we really do but um I wish that we had another option um uh you know a backup vehicle or we're able to rent a vehicle or something but anyways I just wanted to bring that to the attention of you guys uh to the to the finance committee and um just uh we're asking for $ thousand dollar in the rabies control line just so we can um because we've seen such an increase in uh animals with rabies over the last couple of years just threw up again so uh funding will be used for the education Outreach and preventative methods such as purchasing edible rabies bait packs um so we can get them around town to Hope cut down the um you know on the rabies population in town but that's all that I had all right thank you any questions for Matt or Tanya I think you're uh I don't think we have any I just wanted to say I really appreciate the finance committee support I really do and um if you have any questions I'll think of anything feel free to email me or call me however you know whatever all right terrific thank you so much for coming to tonight we appreciate both of you thank you thank you thank you all right so it looks like we have Chief Baldwin here if you're on mute there you go you're on mute then how you doing good we heard you had an emergency and I heard the trucks go back the other way so yeah so we did but you know um I know it's late too so I'm open if you guys want to reschedule um but tonight's actually like a perfect example of that question that we get was how many FAS did you have and to most people that means you know FAS that I saw on the evening news and tonight this was a this was an elderly lady in a house whose propane fireplace uh she was trying to shut it off she couldn't she panicked she threw uh a bunch of Rags wet Rags on it try and put it out and subsequently they caught fire um it was still you know burning when we got there but it was small contained to the area not a big deal house full of smoke um one guy in the fire truck heading down to West Baba right adjacent to the yoka club so you're talking about an extensive ride um you know again not to us not not a big deal but could it have become one yes it could have and that's just one of many examples where we have these small instances be an electrical fire oven fire that doesn't make the news we don't put on Facebook you know you don't hear about it but it happens um because I just you know that that one question that would get how many FAS did you have and and everybody they just picture you know fire fire blown through the roof of somebody's house and uh thankfully we don't have a lot of those but we do have a lot of what happened tonight um but I I know that our presentation although I will say this year I did not uh plan on being too lengthy um but I know sometimes we usually do take a little longer than other departments so um I am at your disposal as far as attending a future meeting if like we we had three budgets tonight and we just took the Board of Health before you since you weren't here so if you're up for it we're up for it sure yep if you're exhausted in need to go we understand that too I'm good to go just let me know how you'd like to proceed do you um do you want to talk us through do you have any presentation for us this time or I don't have a presentation let me just let me just hold the fire hold on and I did present uh what I thought was a pretty detailed packet uh to yourself and which I'm assuming was shared with the rest of the committee members absolutely I can go through our budget as we have in the past line by line um to be honest the Personnel uh Services again level service um all of the increases that you see uh per the collective bargaining agreement and all the Personnel bylaws with the exception of a few um such as the overtime minimal increase of 4,500 and that's just sort of to compensate for the wage increase and really it doesn't it's actually minimal it's it should probably be a little bit higher uh We've also um taken on the responsibility of of lawn cutting which the highway department was doing but due to their lack of Staffing they weren't able to do that this year so um we are now charged with cutting the lawn for both station one and two station one actually takes almost five hours believe it or not there's a lot of uh edging and weed whacking there to be done so it's taking a little bit of cost out of the overtime line um College incentive that's you see a pretty sharp increase there we do have some members that are anticipating getting uh degrees this upcoming fiscal year again that's a a CBA agreement so um out of that obviously budget anticipating those increases um one item that is new that hasn't been funded since well I shouldn't say it's new it just hasn't been funded since fiscal year 2016 there emergency management salaries we have a very small Emergency Management division they're kind of there in case we have hurricanes they would be setting up shelters uh you know there hasn't been a whole lot of work for them but they are necessary and they are there I mean $5,000 to cover six or seven of them clearly shows that you know they don't make a lot of money um and for the to be honest for the most part they come in on almost on a volunteer status they'll maintain their you know their equipment and things like that uh kind of on their own time but if we were to deploy them um to set up a shelter sometimes when we evacuate you Beach they're usually charged with going down there and handing out the Flyers and the informational packets Etc uh they do pro provide rehab at uh emergency incident like such as tonight if that had become a a working fire uh due to the frigid temperatures um they respond there and provide warming shelters uh for the firefighters um uh you know sometimes if we're there for a long time water things like that and uh even in the summertime um they'll provide cooling for us because you know it's it's just as risky in the summer when we're dealing with high heat at a building fire so um you know minimal increase again hasn't been funded since fiscal year 2016 and what I have been doing or not I shouldn't say me necessarily but Chief legenda we've been paying them out of the qualify fighs line which was really been it's only like $20,000 so it's eating away at that um when I first got on we had about 30 call fire fighters we're down to six or seven um we have a few four or five of the West fire explorers that are currently enrolled and actually attended last night for the first time the call firefighter Academy so we'll be bringing those on board pending their successful completion which I anticipate from the uh Massachusetts call fir fighter Academy which is being held up in Bridgewater um they're young they're energetic they want to do this job full time I anticipate um them to be active but you know one of the things that I I've noticed and I experienced it myself you're 18 you get into it then you get a job you're working 40 hours and your availability becomes difficult so again you know I don't think we'll see uh you know they're they're they're not going to be buying a house on on the salary of a qualifier fighter that's for sure but we we'll see a little bit of an increase in in that there so I just feel it's time to say let's separate the Emergency Management division which is essentially what it is a division of the fire department and and let's pull them salaries out of the appropriate line which again hasn't been funded since fiscal year 2016 um on the expense side um one second Chief um Hugh has his hand up so he might have a question on something okay I see that I just say I know your neighbor Chris Don and so forth you have talked about how to deal with lawn mowing and I think I understand the expense and so forth but I think that one just I think go is ongoing in the sense that maybe you can figure something out by the time we get to maybe ear and transfers who knows what I know it's a problem I know it needs to be done and there's no good no easy answer yeah correct I mean right now our members are kind of stepping up and doing it that I think the days of you know honestly they're cutting it off duty um the days of cutting it on duty is is is gone uh we're too busy again we're all paramedic so to have somebody out there cutting the grass you know then all of a sudden jumping off the lawnmower going on an ambulance call covered in you know grass pollen dirt dust and then dealing with somebody having respiratory distress or and then and then handling sterile equipment IV equipment it it we can't do that it doesn't make sense we're we're we're working in a sterile environment in the back of that ambulance we're medical professionals um and while while the memb stepped up every single week every week I had somebody that was willing to take care of the property and and have it look good um what if what if one day somebody says I'm available this week you know so um I know it's your problem okay thank you I see there's another I mean you know I I'll only just speak from we talk about this mowing all the time and it it totally it seems very inappropriate for firefighters to be Mowing and I'll only reiterate if if it's taking five hours to mow a lawn that's five hours of energy that you're expending on something that's so insignificant and and I don't know maybe you guys are all in the most terrific shape in five hours of mowing is is nothing but um you you risk not being able to be as alert and helpful if you have an emergency next shift right sh firefighters always take pride in their station and their equipment and things like that so you know it's really something that we just do and you know I just think you know honestly station two not that big of a deal station one we were getting quotes from uh landscapers in town 700 bucks a week that's a week to cut the station you know because there's just so much edging and and you want it done right you don't want you want to be driving on Hicks gridge Road one of the big busiest roads in town brand new complex you know with the you know it's bad enough we don't have a sprinkler system so our lawn is not in it's really more like weeds and grass um but we try to make it look as decent as we can um but yeah it is a problem it was sort of unexpected uh and you know I certainly thank Chris Gonzales he was he was asked to take it on and without hesitation he did ch years back um and they did they did a great job of it and they really helped us out as they always do but uh he wasn't able to do it anymore and so we we just it was something that we took on that we weren't your hand is up great thank you Chief um just to point out it's um thank hello Christopher it's um 7:35 Christopher just joined the call go ahead you've got your hand up I yes thanks thanks Karen I just want to say having firefighters relegated to uh mowing a lawn is stupid in my opinion I mean let's let's just lay it on the line here cannot this town who has anywhere between $1.5 million to $3.5 million this year in free cash quote unquote which we all know how much I love the the term free cash cannot have somebody or some group step up to the plate I mean it's crazy These Guys these these guys and and of course I I have to I have to to to step back and say that I not only really love the fire department and the police department but I have a particular soft spot for Danny and we go back years my God so when when God was young I so you know so I I just wanted to to to to to lay that but but forgetting all of that it just is crazy with a 50 plus million doll budget that we cannot find somebody and some money in the budget to mow the godamn long right all right so I'll leave it at that ju it just it just drives me crazy thank you Al um yep so let's move off the go ahead Cindy I want so you know I'm gonna make my final my call on this because this has been a thorn in my side for many years about this whole thing about who cuts the grass where lawn maintenance belongs with lawn maintenance companies and I agree with Al 100% that if we have property in town that's very large uh whether it be the police and fire station which are adjacent to each other and we know the Grass Grows every year no matter what I know the snow issue is is a different thing with plowing your your your driveway which I'm sure we'll get to but as far as lawn maintenance is concerned uh other budgets in town you know Town Hall lawn is very small and they have the maintenance guy do it the school department does not have teachers go there after school and mow the lawn at the school the fire Department should not be responsible for having firefighters off duty go and mow the lawn or police officers off duty going mowing the lawn okay we don't ask other employees of their buildings to go out and do those things so I mean I'm of course we're very you know conscious about the the budget but it is crazy it it's crazy that you guys have to think about it it's crazy that it's a source of Pride for the now and we should be happy to employ a local firm and support our local businesses by giving them that lawn business I mean I get it I mean you're trying to manage your budget and we're trying to manage the budget but that's crazy it it is it's it's beyond the Call of Duty that professional firefighters and police officers should do so I can't you know I'll leave it at that it's it's it's a sore subject for me because I think we should just hire a firm and do it the right way thanks Cindy well enough said on that right Chief yeah I know you didn't think that this was going to be like the biggest issue with your budget right is that you know cutting the grass well you know I mean we're not talking about other departments tonight and we haven't met with the highway department um but you know well I think we got the police department in reserve so we have more time less time we think we have like I said I just want to reiterate that that that Chris gonzal he took that on without hesitation he stepped up he got it done it's not his fault that he can't um I'm not sure you know it's just a lack of finding Staffing or what have you um but it was not planned it all of a sudden kind of sprung up upon us um the first week actually I was out there with the weed whacker just because we we were scrambling to find somebody to get it done so it wasn't planned um you know at all it happened actually I think after July 1 there was no way we were going to find the we just made it work I think we all agree about it just it's a problem without an easy solution right yep okay all right thank you Chief anything else on your your fire budget that we can move on with on the on the Personnel side uh I would say um we'll get to the the Staffing in a if you do mind in a second I'll just move on to the expenses which is pretty straightforward um we were asked to to provide a level funded budget um by Mr hartnet which we did um I did Express to him and if you read my letter that you know I I'll do my best to make it work um but running a fleet of heavy fire apparatus um you know expensive equipment critical equipment I can never predict whether something's going to break not break Etc um we're going to try our best we've done as much as we can to consolidate um bills we're paying bills you know we had some quarterly bills like our elevator for example has to get quarterly uh serviced quarterly for state regulations uh we're paying that up front minimal discount I think 5% but just paying it in full um save some money here and there we consolidate a trash pickup um we're we're pretty aggressive my Deputy uh is very aggressive when it comes to preventive maintenance especially in vehicles uh we are finding that there's been some maintenance over the years that hasn't really been done the way that we would like to see myself and the deputy so we're you know we're looking at everything we can to reduce the number of things that may or may not break and which in turn you know prompts an Emer repair we have some ongoing issues with station one station one's HVAC system uh we've been working sort of in the background with Mr Harner and um potentially Kathy Stanley of the energy committee to try and resolve some issues there um even though the station was recently built it's approaching 20 years old it's 16 16 years old um so there's a few things there that we're looking at maybe you know get some some better efficiency to help lower some some bills different things that we're finding that um we had a different company come in and they found some things that have been bypassed over over the years so essentially the system which is very uh elaborate computer-driven um you know uh Heats and cools a very large building uh it may not be running as efficiently as possible and that that situation currently is ongoing um with a uh agback company out of Freetown um but we're going to do our best to um to maintain uh the you know the level funded budget that we were asked to present which is which what we did uh again relying heavily on grants we received a $25,000 Grant this year from the federal government uh which is going to actually outfit our five new call Firefighters the Explorers I mentioned earlier without that Grant we would not have the money because it's $25,000 just to give them structural firefighting gear without that Grant we would not have the money to onboard these firefighters and subsequently they would not be employed by the town Westport as called firefighters because we wouldn't have the funding to do it so once again uh the town and its departments are heavily relying on grants um which you know is great providing that the ex right um we're waiting on another Grant award which I expected today if not we should hear about I'm thinking tomorrow $9,000 from DFS um again that'll go towards an additional set of firefighter gear and uh some some equipment that we need going to upgrade some uh high-powered fans um that we haven't upgraded in probably decades um and we also have 4600 from uh Mima that's another grant that is a match Grant so we have to spend another 4600 but we're going to um outfit all of our firefighters with wet suits currently nobody has any wet suits um to provide any kind of water rescue to operate on the jet ski uh we basically go in our uniform which is certainly not um you know conducive to uh uh any kind of operation especially when the water's a little bit chillier um before you know the summer really sets in so that's the first time in that I know of in the Department's history that every single member will actually be issued um protective gear for water rescue and we're using that grant for that um we have uh put in a grant request for a new fire engine uh through afg um afg was $390 million available last year at 3.1 billion dollars in requests um again as I say every year very hard to get those afg grants we were successful for the gear unsuccessful in our pursuit of a fire engine I have um resubmitted the Grant application again for the firet TRU this year um we won't hear about that though I don't anticipate hearing about that until the summer um otherwise uh again maintaining level funding um just want to emphasize you know like this year we've had we've had some trouble with garage doors um just station one on Hicks Bridge Road has nine garage doors the four that face Hicks Bridge Road uh with all the glass that they have they're particularly heavy all the components are heavy the the wheels uh that run up and down in the rails they you know excessive wear and tear um again we do preventive maintenance on those but a couple issues popped up this uh actually this past month so you know there's there's a lot of moving pots we maintain two buildings um and you know the expenses um they're there they're real and um you know we do everything we can to control it and I will do everything I can to control it again this year we um you know we do a lot of purchasing for for supplies on uh even EMS supplies now on Amazon certain stuff we can get on Amazon certain stuff we can't but um we are getting some EMS supplies like things like vomit bags I mentioned that one because I ordered it today substantially cheaper on Amazon um so we're we're doing everything we can to cut cost try and maintain um you know where we stand I'm hoping at some point we have believe we have some radio towers that are going to go online they're not online yet working with uh Keith NOA on the IT department but not I don't think this coming fiscal year but we should see maybe a reduction or savings as far as what we're paying Verizon to operate the radio towers once we go fiber um I'm just looking at the budget that I'm discussing things here other than that I think I think our budget's pretty straightforward this year I really do um most of like I said it's CBA we level funded um we Chief I've got a question for you so in your memo um you had talked about a staffing plan um a budget increase for one additional firefighter and you broke that out and then you have a staffing plan uh to request three additional firefighters so are you is that two different scenarios that you yeah it just you know so so and what did did the Town Administrator support in any of the scenarios and what's in your what's in your budget numbers well the the plan in my budget number is one firefighter um the plan has always well the plan has been for about 20 years now to well 20 years ago 20 years chief chief legenda um with the finance committee at the time and the board of selectman at the time and I'm assuming obviously the Town Administrator most likely came up with a plan right around 2008 where they were gonna hire one firefighter the year a year for the next four years to bring us up to our desire level of four shifts operating at six firefighter paramedics um 2008 recession hit everything fell apart in that time frame since then we've only added one additional person out of that plan that they had so sticking with the plan and knowing the constraints of the town's operating budget um I said look we you know one additional staff this year like we've been requesting but we really would like to see three in a in a perfect world um if the town had the money you know we would truly benefit from having having four Sixers shifts that would allow us to staff three Revenue generating ambulances Around the Clock you know providing is not a sick leave which sick leave in a department is minimal um there are vacation um obviously they get vacation time like every other employee um but more often than not we would be at six five figh paramedics per shift operating three ambulances Staffing our fire engines because we cross man fire apparatus and EMS um and that's really where we need to be it's really we need to be for safety reasons it's it's really where we where we should have been a long time ago uh Mr Hart had asked me if we would have put on one additional person this year if we would save any overtime and my answer to him was no um we're we're beyond that we we've been asking we were asking for 20 we were asking for uh Sixers shifts when we were doing 1,800 runs we're doing 3,200 runs we're so far beyond the need for Staffing that you know now having said that do I think you'll see a savings in overtime you probably will but I I can't guarantee that I I I don't want to I don't want to you know make a promise that I can't keep I I don't I don't know that we will I will say that the one six person shift that we have because we Dro to a four person minimum and that's kind of key to saving some overtime money now you know when you're asking for 296,000 for three additional staff members and then I turn around and say well the calulator we're going to save you know 10 grand in overtime I mean you know it doesn't it's not that it to me I know when I sit here before the finance committee we talk about finances and and and everything finances I and I understand that um but it's also not only about the finances it's about the revenue that we can generate on the finance end but it's about safety it's about delivery of services it's about a timely response making sure that the individuals that we're tending to um you know that they're they're care for by by professional paramedics quickly in a town that's 64 square miles you know you don't want to be where we were just now in West Baba waiting for an ambulance to come it's already taking us 15 minutes to get there because the town geographically is just so large um so you know that's you know in a perfect world and and you know another the fire chief could sit here and tell you he wants eight people per shift 12 the union guys might say they want you know same thing eight and 12 but we I'm I'm taking picking up where Chief legenda left off which is a realistic approach to what we think the town should have been able to manage well before today is 4 six person chance we're not asking for the world here we're asking for um what's realistic I mean the the the the amount of simultaneous calls that we do is unbelievable I mean we've already up to about just just today alone since 0800 I think they 12 or 13 runs just for today we're already over 70 since the beginning of the year um and and you know something that's very hard for me to explain um and I'll try and do it just very briefly you know the numbers our our individual incidents this year was 3,262 more than we've ever done in our Department's history but many of those incidents took multiple resources multiple people so I'll just give you a really easy example you have a three car crash on 195 with three occupants in each vehicle that's nine patients that's nine ambulances that's fire apparatus that's that's a lot going on we could do one call all day and you could say how many calls did you do yesterday could say we did one and you'd say and you probably say gez I didn't do anything but sit around but that one call could have been horrific it could have been nine patients it could have been you know three transports for Westport that's all we have is three ambulances you know so so those numbers 3262 it it means more to me than it probably does and to my members than it does to anybody in the public because they don't really understand was behind that 3262 our log actually show shows 3700 instance because we maintain it a little bit differently if if if we send so for example you go to a motor vehicle crash on Route 195 you know every patient gets an ey number every the engine gets an i number mainly for reporting purposes when the when the engine comes back it has to document the reports for the state the ambulance has to document their reports and they have to be assigned the reference number the actual incidence that one that one crash on Route 195 that took multiple resources I count that as one 3262 is that number one incident but in reality it it's taking we're doing so much with so little and I know you've heard that so long but we are I mean just now I mean we you know we got one guy in a fire truck heading into West Bava supposedly somebody trapped we we've got people scrambling from home you know I'm about to sit down at the meeting you know my I'm the fight that's my job my my kids are home and get a puppy I'm I'm running out the door my wife's not home tonight I mean it's just this is how it op this is how you operate As A Firefighter in this town and in a lot of other towns do they all the same you know I get it maybe not the big cities but you know this the life that we live and we chose it and I and I have no issue with it but you know there's a lot that goes into what we do our members our members are constantly coming in off duty every single day Christmas Christmas Eve every day it it's you know and some of them love it it's what keeps them interested in the job right and and of course you know they're getting over the time so there's benefits there but we rely on the off-duty response so heavily and it's in the summertime it's it's it's difficult because I've said before you're asking somebody when when we're at a minimum Staffing level of four both ambulances are out now there's nobody in the station drop what you're doing but it's unscheduled our work's not scheduled you know our shifts are scheduled but we don't know when somebody's going to call an ambulance so you know it's either myself or the deputy we're we're monitoring things from home or we're in the station we're on the radio I mean myself and the deputy we're stepping up we're doing we're making sure we're there but it's you know it's it's high time for Staffing and and I would be so grateful and the members would be so grateful if we could just get one additional staff member this year maybe get back on that track where Chief did did do you know did did the Town Administrator add the your one staff request into his budget do you know yes he did okay yes and I don't know since removed but okay yes okay and now does that one additional staff since it's a paramedic bring in Revenue so there's a couple of things going on and I I will say this uh the potential for that one additional staff member to bring an additional Revenue absolutely exists because on that shift that would bring us up to two shifts now we would be Staffing three ambulances Revenue generating ambulances right so so you know and maybe this is a a an a question that we can follow up with later Within information but my question would be so if if three more staff to to meet your request for the number of shifts that you did and you certainly Quantified the expense that that would be $212,000 but how how much additional Revenue would that bring in so Revenue how do you get Revenue well so I'm I know we brought in we see here we had looks like we received Mutual Aid 56 times last year um so I you know I can't say that every single every single Mutual Aid incoming Mutual Aid call was um because we didn't have enough ambulances in town it could have been we had that motor vehicle crash that had four or five patients and we were already maxed out um but there's 56 opportunities there where we could have brought in Revenue that we didn't there was 40 times that another Community um requested us Mutual Aid and we couldn't because we didn't have the Staffing or we didn't have the ambulance available so there's almost 100 times there um and now you're going to ask me probably about the billing portion of it and that that fluctuates anywhere from probably $800 to $2,000 depending on the call depending on the insurance type automobile crashes uh usually get 100% reimburse for the for the for the billing expenses but um a lot of times what we bill for we certainly don't receive in return from the insurance companies but we are we are missing out on some Revenue whether or not it would offset a member I can't say for sure I think it would come pretty pretty Dar close um one of the other things that kind of almost leads into the question that you just posed was and kind of off of what I just said was what we build for insurance we don't receive in return from the insurance companies so a while back and and I don't have it in front of me but there was some kind of legislation that was passed um by the federal government and Massachusetts jumped on board with it it's called The Massachusetts Public ambulance certified public expenditure audit and what that does is it basically government recognized that Medicaid does not reimburse ambulance companies both both public and private enough to cover their cost to actually provide the service that we provide so what departments can do which uh there are a few quite a few in Massachusetts um we can do a self audit of our operating expenses it's it's quite a bit of work some Chiefs uh have not done it uh not not in Westport well we haven't never done it in Westport until now but um in other communities just because of the workload uh I spoke with Haley my Administrative Assistant uh I think she's she's highly skilled uh spreadsheets and computer-driven Etc myself as well so we think between the two of us we're going to be able to do this audit and it pulls information vehicle maintenance fuel consump energy audit uh ex you know Staffing salaries uh dispatching at the police department we'd have to gra grab some facts from them it's a lot of it's a lot of data a lot of facts a lot of statistic heat it's everything that encompasses what it takes for us to sit there be ready for a call take the call handle the call return the service Bill Etc you upload all this information into a uh portal that is on mass.gov I'm I'm still learning a lot about this so I I'll answer questions as best I can but I I'm still trying to wrap my head around a lot of this um and then you present this for us it'll be our first time so we start the process in May Kay's already begin the application process and and setting up the accounts we begin the process in May you submit around October usually around December they kick things back maybe with some questions or if there's some numbers that make sense they say hey your fuel consumption seems pretty high can you justify that or just check that number out and then in July you get a check reimbursement check um it stand by one second um it's based on the amount of medic paid patients that you have which Haley believes is roughly 50% of our clientele or our patient and the transports that you do so I'm going to throw some numbers at you real quick uh and just kind of keep in the back of your mind that Westport fire typically does about 2,000 just under 2,000 working so not every um results in a trans some people I'm sorry go ahead somebody has their hand up say I can't believe you have 50% Medicaid Medicare maybe but not 50% Medicaid uh that's what yeah I'll double check the number but I I I will will um I'll double check that number with her but that was that was her estimation I'm so proud of Danny um but free said that don't Chief and I'm not um I'm not asking you to give us a full analysis right now I guess my my high level question is really we look at that we look at the funding and say oh three new staff at 200,000 no way the budget can support that but there's a second part of that story of of course that will help with safety for a residents but but how much might those positions pay for itself by Revenue so maybe the the net is 200,000 in expenses but I'm just making up a number 100,000 in Revenue so we're really talking a net $112,000 of an expense to hire three people so I just made that number up just as an example so that's what I'm just trying to understand to to really do the analysis on the revenue side and then then there should be some consideration does that make sense to do it or not but when you just look at the expense to add 22,000 it's it's a really hard nut just because our budget's so tight so um you don't we're not looking for I'm not asking you to to to do the analysis tonight but um that just might be a way to help position that as a possibility um where just looking at the expense it it it it's hard to it's hard to factor into this budget yeah well what I was where I was kind of going with the c audit was I was just hoping that that dollar amount there and when do you think you'd have that analysis so it wouldn't be until um this coming fall okay we would submit and then like I said around January we'd get some information back but you know Freetown fire they're doing 1,200 transports we do 2,000 they get $774,000 leville they they we we do defin do more than Lakeville they get 52,000 a cushion that does a th000 transports they get 38,000 we do double that North ad borrow they're much busier they do 3,800 calls they get 190,000 so you know I I don't know where that number is going to be um but judging by these other departments that are very much like us um and I I'll definitely double check with Haley on on on Mr Morton's point but I would I would certainly put us in in comparison with a cushion at Freetown in Lakeville and our call volume is much higher than them and they're getting um I mean the Freetown fire department is if we were got 74,000 we would offset cost of the member right there you know I think we can get that more but I I can't and make I can't make a guarantee I don't know enough about it I'm still learning but I think I guess my point to Mr Harnet was we've been asked for creative ways to fund our budget I think we found one and I think it would be wrong for that CPE money to come in and go to the general fund I think if if if if Haley and myself are going to are going to do the work and take those those those hours out of our department and generate that money I think it needs to come back to benefit the department meaning meaning adding another another staff member you know this is something I could have I could have just swept into the rug and and never brought it up um and and just pretend that I didn't know about it you know given the workload that everybody tells me about but I think it's important and and we're certainly willing to do it try and do anything that we can to help help you guys help us yeah I don't I don't mean to be a nitpicker I only meant Medicaid is the welfare side of things right and on on a medical side it pays about 72% Medicare is still government pays about 76% now it maybe it simply falls in the category of government and in that case Medicare Medicaid may be interchangeable that's fine I don't care about the number but if it's Medicaid which is totally different in terms of it structure then it might be uh something that isn't quite accurate that's all okay y perfect thank you does um Chief did you have anything else or does anyone else have questions for chief Al I know you had your hand up at one point and then turned it down put it down but no no thanks every everything's been answered I I just uh yeah I'm good Chief do you have any other highlights for us that you want to go over didn't want to be I didn't want to keep you guys long no that's okay we're here talk about our Capital requests at all is that something that you bring up tonight or not tonight or um is that in with the capital Improvement committee it is capital Improvement committee yeah that I would suggest would be a capital Improvement committee uh yeah yeah I thought we had brought it up in the past is but that's fine yeah we'll wait for that to come through and then um and then we may may or may not need to ask you to come back uh if if if we need more information but it sounds like Al's on the committee so we'll probably yeah no I think I think we're good with that yeah and not take of your time um y that's that's basically it like I said pretty straightforward pretty straightforward um budget will continue to reduce our our cost as much as possible get grants and uh we thank you guys for always listening to us and trying to wrap your heads around what it is we do and get an understanding for it no absolutely I was just saying fing encourage your guys to avoid grade crossings they don't see to do in Florida avoid what grade Crossings where the railroad tracks yeah oh yeah yeah with the lad truck yeah I did see that yeah we will we will avoid those all right well thank you um no seems no other questions and we thank you for uh the work you did tonight and outside of this meeting and this meeting too so we appreciate everything you do all right thank you very much thanks Chief thank you have a good night good night thank you all right so that is a wrap for our budget meetings tonight um the item we had on the agenda was I just I just left it on the agenda just in case we wanted to um talk further so I did reach out to the select board in terms of having and to uh the chair of the school committee Evan gendro um to try to arrange our joint meeting between the select board finance committee and school committee so um I'm going to send out some dates which would be in the late January early February time frame so we can uh get that going so at that point we should have I think the the state should have some preliminary numbers I think Jim hartnet said January 21st or 22nd or 23rd somewhere around there so we we would have our first look at you know semisolid Revenue go ahead Al that I think you you took the steam out of my uh my my question I wonder I I I actually want to know and it's probably it's not a discussion for tonight but for the future how we went from plus or minus a million dollars a year for a number of years of so-called free cash I won't go into my rant and then all of a sudden Kaboom we go to$ three and a half million do now I can give you a partial answer doesn't answer it part of that is phony or it is not free in the sense it's committed to chapter 90 chapter 90 went from nothing but we ever so half a million dollars so that shows up as free cash but it isn't free it's chapter 90 Highway money okay well I I would I would love to have a rather than you know the the specific budget questions with with the different departments I'd like to understand that uh a little bit more a lot more as a matter of fact because it it it not only affects the our current decision process but also future decision process and and how can and and good for you Hugh for saying that but it just all of a sudden it just exploded and appeared out of out of nowhere and answer is I don't know and I saw that the best answer I could find anybody was we don't know either we were on the Bist of getting money and then we got we got well I think the town the town account both the town account and the Town Administrator are the best people to answer those questions so we get them before the before us I'm sure that will be a question good for you good for you that's exactly what we need to to know is is is it just it just seems remarkable to me it happens it it just yeah and uh again uh the discussion of the budget and free cash is really not on our agenda tonight to go into detail but I can certainly uh add that onto our agenda for next for an analysis of would you would you please Karen I I think this is important for not only the finance committee but also for the the population in general to understand how things can explode um I understand the million doll plus or minus when it comes to budgets over and under and sideways and whatever but all of a sudden we have uh um what we you know what we have so I'll leave it at that but but I think it's important Christopher had a had a comment go ahead Christopher yes thank you I Al I just wanted to thank you for bringing that up I I think that U from what I've learned there is a there's maybe some questions as to the formulas you used for Revenue uh when it comes to especially when it comes to excise taxes and whatnot I think that there's there's a lot that needs to be discussed and and questioned just on on the the process move or the expected formulas moving forward on that uh that are that is done by the Town Administrator and town account so thank you for bringing that up and I would I would also like to see if that could possibly get on an agenda that would be great thanks thanks and um Madam shair I just had one quick question so the uh the Board of Health uh budget Mee was taken out of out of order did was the agenda order switched tonight is that it was because the chief uh had an emergency understood um so he wasn't here and so we had the Board of Health and then the chief ended up coming after all and so we we took it out of order understood tried to make it as quickly as possible all right Christopher you can watch the replay I was I was actually to see if it was live right now so I could go back right I'll certainly catch the replay thank you right we're not Li the way since we're still remote this doesn't show up live so it actually takes a couple of days for them to process it and get it posted so um I think they haven't figured out how to make this live or or or quick access but it comes up quick um so okay so that was the uh so we will get that joint meeting uh together uh and certainly Al on in that joint meeting uh the free free cash um plan and allocation is certainly on that and but we I think we can get some uh a memo from the Town Administrator to to describe um the methodology to free cash and I don't want I I could describe some of that but it's really not on our agenda so I don't want to really no not not for tonight Karen just just yeah just not of time yeah um I I failed to put on our agenda just sort of General fiscal 26 budget topics um so uh we can we can talk about that next week okay um the next item on our agenda was to uh any committee and Lon updates any meetings of interest you discuss yeah yeah yeah Karen I I just would like to say I I met with Evan um sendro a month ago and just reviewed his budget and got his perspective on things like free cash which impact his budget with the way the Jim hartnet looks at that so anyways I've had that meeting and Evan and I are in regular touch I would also point out that I'm away the last week of January so when the school I'm hoping we can schedule a school committee in early February the school is already scheduled and they are scheduled for February 11th I think you talking about the joint meeting oh The Joint meeting sorry um okay so when are you away Duncan uh 25th to the 1st 25th to the 1 I I can send you an email we don't have to four people stuff sure okay sure thing okay well I'll I'll try to send some sort of poll out to see to try to thick a day for all of us which should be fun when there's 15 or 20 people we're trying to do okay uh Hugh go ahead I'm extremely modest report I just met with Chief donad all actually today and talk about their budget they're prepared to go and scheduled terrific um any any um any committee meetings I know there was um an infrastructure meeting couple of weeks ago or so anything of inter there will be a CPC meeting on Thursday okay that hasn't happened yet yeah I I I attended the I've attended two infrastructure meetings uh it's all it's all grandf funded I mean there's nothing that impacts the town budget okay terrific thank you and and I um uh Chief Baldwin and I had a couple of meetings regarding his budget which you've already heard tonight so that's good and the rest of my committee assignments are assessors which you don't need to listen to me what you can do is is go on Facebook and listen to uh the 120 posts about you know about God knows what so um uh anyway I I'll be doing the assesses and the accountant in the next few days terrific thank you um yeah so just so just moving in just to our the what we have scheduled so next week Jan Tuesday January 14th we have scheduled uh the Departments for Budget meetings are police assessor veteran services library and Jim Hartnett just confirmed to me that he will attend next week's meeting and he can review the town hall and Annex budget the select board budget and the cemetery so that will be uh January 14th then January 21st we have scheduled The treasur Collector department and debt Services Recreation the town accountant in Highway snow and ice okay then January 28th we have just the building department right now scheduled so um we may who knows Ralph is and Ralph is out so uh Jim may end up doing that budget as well oh okay um also okay so that might be a good meeting you you and I had indic had had a brief conversation about moving the diamond um review uh to a different date so maybe that would be a good date uh I haven't rescheduled that with uh with diamond yet so you said that was Jan 28 yep Jan 28 you have it you have some opening yeah as of right now January 28th is the only Department okay budget is building right um so you know that that Ral that Ralph requested a a temporary leave so I don't know how long he I think it's going to be for for several weeks okay because we do have now an interim building inspector for a few weeks so maybe he'll be back by then but Jim will probably do that budget okay okay well we'll talk offline I mean um the same thing with with with diamond it's it's not urgent and critical to our budget and I'd almost rather have a week off yeah yeah sure then squeeze something in that's doesn't come into play with our budget that needs to be uh voted on at that time uh I'm sure that they do not have their number ready yet anyway right right so we can schedule them a little bit um a little bit later right even in March you know when things have lightened up a little bit so okay and then uh lastly on February 11th is the Westport Community School uh that budget so that's that's our schedule right all right and and and not that it matters from the committee standpoint s and I are going to be gone from the 22nd of February till the 27th so oh I'm going to be gone that week too okay the other Cindy your other the other Cindy not rumors around town yeah I know yeah I and and it's on zoom and it's recorded here so makes it very it makes it very convenient it makes it very convenient that we can work around this house all right so in terms of Lon so Christopher if I may ask you did the school committee vote on a budget tonight uh we did we did vote on a budget um I believe the chair wants to communicate that to uh to you uh and the Town Administrator here uh but we did take a vote tonight yes so okay I guess I could go watch the meeting was your meeting broadcast do you know it it was yes it was all right so are you you you prefer not to discuss what you discussed in a public meeting tonight I think you said the chair wanted to as a matter of fact I just had chair just flagged out so no I I uh he he does want to communicate to you but I but i' be happy to tell you that so the budget number that the school committee recommended was 24 million uh of course I have it I don't have it right in front of me now um 88 uh excuse me 24 million uh 40 4,788 and in terms of a gap between what the Town Administrator has in its present budget do you know what that number is like what's our number that or off by I I believe it's around 650 the the without going into too you know with it not being on the agenda didn't want to go too far but I will say that the original there was a shortfall from uh the contractual obligations point of view uh there there was a shortfall to begin with of about $45,000 I think um that that was just with with the contractual obligations for additional obligations but yeah we're looking all right well we'll we'll wait for a a little memo with the numbers from from the chair so that's fine so um this all qualifies under lay us on in in committee reports but that's that's fine we can wait so that's no problem so um that'll be helpful so what I'm GNA do so the Town Administrator put together a first round of of budget numbers and I I actually didn't get a copy of it so it was present s it to the select board I think a couple of weeks ago and um I didn't get it so I I haven't passed that along so um I'll get that and put that in the kind of the fincom format that I do and then um I think Jim has not really updated the numbers because there's been nothing to update virtually so I'll uh I'll get that to you next week and I'll put that on the agenda so and if Jim is coming to next week's meeting maybe he can give us a quick overview of of some of the budgets budget things that he put in and out of the budget but he did put a memo together for the select board so he summarized a lot of his numbers so I'll I'll uh I'll collect that and pass it along to you guys for next week yeah all right so so the next item was to approve are December 10th 2024 minutes so moved so moved does anyone want to Second those I will second thank you all right any discussion on those at all no then I'll do a roll call for approval so Al Al i q q Morton I Cindy Cindy Brown I D lot I Christopher uh Christopher Thrasher I will abstain all right thank you and Karen Ross I thank you uh let's see so I think I've gone through most of the agenda so any any other topics um that we would like to discuss at our next meeting I already have free cash and if we have Mr hartnet he can certainly explain how that that happen that that that would be my Karen that I'm sorry to interrupt that would be my my hot button whether it's the next meeting or the meeting after the meeting after is is the differential between what we consistently look at as quote unquote free cash and and and and the bump up and and get some some real detail sure thing thank you sure thing go ahead Christopher uh yes thank you madam chair I I actually would uh specifically like to see that as an agenda item on the uh The Joint meeting I think I think that that would be a very very good top for all all WS to to discuss at that at that meeting perfect and it it is it is a already an agenda item free cash and um allocation in policy and good good yes absolutely yeah y or guidelines not necessarily policy but right right what what are the guard rails uh regarding this because I'm I'm just guessing for sake of discussion that this is a kind of the last gasp of arpa and you know no has nothing to do with ARA okay fine see that's what I want to know and we don't need to deal with it today so where's it coming from where's it going and how long's it going to last that that's uh that that's my thing yeah yes we can certainly uh okay go through it next week excellent I keep biting my tongue and want to talk about it but it's really not on put the zipper right uh anything else from anybody anybody uh anything else that to add to our agenda so we do have a hot and heavy week of um department meetings next week so just nope just happy New Year to everyone and uh thanks for being you and a motion to a Jer second second all right no discussion on that we'll go right for good night everyone yeah Al goodbye got vote we got vote to to to to hit that red button uh Al oh yes you said yes right I said yes yes I thank you Cindy Cindy Brown I Duncan Duncan l i Christopher Christopher Thrasher hi great Ken R I thank you very much good night everyone