##VIDEO ID:glIedOdmSb8## welcome everyone this is uh the finance committee it is September 10th 2024 it is 630 PM I'd like to call this meeting to order with a pledge of allegiance I pledge of allegiance to the rep justice for all under Mass general Law chapter 30A section 20f this meeting is being recorded the meeting is being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GLC 30A section 20 and on March 29th 2023 Governor Haley signed a supplemental 2023 budget Bill allowing for remote and hybrid meeting options for public bodies through March 31st 2025 uh well welcome everyone uh let me do a a roll call of who's here so we have Christopher Thrasher finance committee members Christopher Thrasher Al Cindy Brown Duncan LW Hugh Morton Michelle Orlando Zack Leu and myself Karen Rouse uh it looks like absent at this moment is Gary Carrero um so welcome everyone Hi hi it's been a long time it has feels good doesn't it does you you don't realize sometimes how often we were meeting and it became such a normal Tuesday night thing so to have a couple months off has been uh quite refreshing right we were so we were so cozy for so long for all those months and now it's like oh right you know I remember we used to spend a lot of time together um well let's see we did have the first thing on our agenda tonight was um our town moderator is supposed to be joining us and I do not see him at the moment so let's skip over the first item on the agenda and let's keep on going and hopefully he'll he'll come on soon um since it's September we're a little early in the budget process and I'll I'll uh the select board at last night's meeting the Town Administrator put together their uh budget schedule and so we can pass that along and talk about it more next month but what I had on the agenda tonight was to talk about leason assignments so I know we all um took assignments last year and then and then we'd all reallocated all of them and then Duncan law joined the committee and we didn't um at that time bother to to switch them around so right now Duncan doesn't have any uh Department budgets and I didn't send out that schedule in advance um so I apologize it's sitting in the Google drive but I didn't send it out um so I suppose we can skip over that and uh next month we can really give Duncan a couple of Bud a couple of departments um so we can just spread out and balance ourselves again so not one person's super heavy and one not one person super light on their schedule if we can help accommodate that um so maybe between now and next month we can all look at the schedules and and see if there's anything anybody's willing to uh relinquish or Duncan if there's anything in particular you're interested in uh we can kind of work that way so I have no uh personal objection to any of my departments or or anything so uh so moving right along why don't we um why don't we get the minutes approved so we can take that out of the out of the way uh we had two minutes and um maybe someone can help refresh me of the dates that we have to approve tonight uh June 18th and July 9th thank you soov does that not take does that not take up enough time so gon slow this down people uh so uh any discussions on those minutes Al has hand raised I I I do but it's not specifically the minutes I kind of jumped a gun so let let's let's keep going with this and then okay sure thing uh so if no other discussion on the minutes we can go ahead and I'll take a roll call on those um Christopher Christopher threr I thank you L Al I Cindy Cindy Brown I Duncan he's on you're on mute Duncan all right dunan law I Hugh H Morton I Michelle Michelle Alando I Zach Zack La Brew I and Karen Rouse I thank you um just checking I don't see our town moderator quite yet so uh maybe we can we can move ahead to item four which is committee or lay us on updates um does anybody have oh go ahead Al you wanted to go go ahead yeah it was just just very brief I I received an email I received I'm sorry yeah take it well we do have a debate at nine o'clock I guess so right um thank you for pointing that out Mr yeah I know I know I'll be in bed by 8 but anyway that's here and there the um uh I received an email and I assume everybody else did regarding Duncan it's not a department uh liaison but myy may sent uh and asked a request to send uh for Duncan or someone to send email and phone number to for contact that's all I wanted to to uh y thank you thanks we got it we took care of it good good okay thank you thank you um does anyone have um any committees so we the last time we met was in July right so there I know the summer is usually on the slow side for committee meetings I I don't I uh I had one committee that I can talk about in a second but does anyone have any did any committees so I'm going to defer to Christopher although I guess technically I think I'm the I'm still confused as to whether I'm the fincom representative to the long-term building committee or the atlarge members so we still have to square that away uh but Christopher is the chair of that committee so I'm going to defer to him to provide a an update um on that uh committee the audit committee uh has not met um since we last met and that's really I believe my only other um liaison um uh item so um actually that's not even a leaza that's a a committee uh request so I'm going to let Christopher talk about long-term building committee thank you thank thank you CD so very quickly uh there was a meeting last week um it should be noted here that the select board has kind of taking things off uh taking and out of the volunteer building committee hands right now as far as the next steps are concerned uh the uh select board has uh put forth a an RFP to uh to possibly or to look for for uh a oh he muted himself yeah yeah Christopher you're on mute now so the uh I'm not sure where I got cut off but the select board basically taken this out of the long-term building committee's hands for the moment uh there was a request for proposal that was sent by uh Mr hardnet I believe it went out Thursday uh talking or asking for uh project manager Consulting on the potential of of changing the uh the building to municipal use uh the meeting that we had on Wednesday was to just go over that uh RFP but also to approve an expenditure that is uh going to be working with sered to actually scan do a full scan of the building as far as the uh the floor plan and and just get some good schematics um this was an offer apparently that had been given a few years ago and never taken up on or the uh the previous iterations of the committee had not taken up taking the offer up so uh that was requested it was requested the select board approve the funding out of the Town warant article for that scan uh that received approval last night so and I just got an email earlier today from uh Michael burus just metion Michael burus and and Jim harb going back and forth mentioning that uh this this scan with sered is is now in the work so that's about the uh the extent of the longterm building committee right now um I do not know when the next the next uh next meeting because the next charge I guess of the long-term building committee at this point uh while that request for proposal is is out I believe uh October is's an October deadline for uh interested parties to to to reach out on that um and and that's probably going to be the sum total vdates of till those uh proposals come back great thank you Christopher go ahead Ally you've got your hand up I do and and I want to make a point very very uh clearly this the question that I have has nothing to do with at all with the um uh the uh the work of the committee or whatever but we all know this is a contentious issue and everybody has an opinion and it goes in 40 directions and we have uh approved at least two I believe uh separate uh uh consultant fee amounts maybe three but let's let's just stick with two my question is are we any closer to a uh a resolution to this uh to bring it to uh the town's people or is this just another step and I'm not disparaging anybody I'm just I just it's a pure Finance question if if I may Madam chair um I uh it's a good question it's a question needs to be asked it's a question I continue to ask I will tell you that the difference between this particular RFP and this particular study proposal in my eyes is that it is going to be first of all utilizing what has been previously done but more importantly it is actually going to take into account a study or or a evaluation of additional Town buildings so it's going to look at the the annex it's going to look at the uh the the town hall um something that I've I've been pushing for for more than a year now is the fact that in order to make any kind of decision on what's next there has to be some real concrete numbers there's got to be an Apples to Apples comparison uh to be able to have the cost benefit analysis and and I and am happy to report that at long long last it seems like the select board has taken action to at least uh get the data the the full picture of the data that's going to be required to make a decision uh with this with this study um it is also very clear in the RFP and I appreciate Mr harder's work on this it's very clear that this is not going to be a rehashing of what has previously done the the studies that have already been done are part of uh the the body of work that one that that whoever responds to this is actually going to be analyzing so um it it's it's progress It's still a crawling Pace no question but is to compared to where we were a little while ago so okay well thank thank you go ahead Cindy so one so one of the other things I I think that people have to absolutely understand that no matter as Al said this this people have many opinions about this regardless of your opinion this is going to cost a significant amount of money no matter what happens if we demolish the school it's several million dollars and all you end up with is a cleared lot um if we decide to mothball the school which I think is probably the least likely option it's going to cost a signif ific amount of money every year to keep it that way for insurance and whatnot if we decide to move forward and convert the building into some type of multi-use Municipal um building that of course is going to cost some money in order to sell the build or sell the parcel of land which is is also the least likely uh option that most people want to take given the value of the fields that are there it's a public water supply the town would no longer have access to such a large parcel of land if it were to be sold the amount of money that someone would be willing to pay for it unless they're willing to use the building which is not currently zoned for commercial but if they wanted to use the building for some other purpose other than a school it would also cost them a significant amount of money and it would be very um the amount of money that they would be willing to pay the town if they had to demolish the the the building would also be very small the amount of money we would ever receive for that land given the fact that it has that building on it uh is probably pretty low so it's it you know any direction you turn either you get a little bit of money for for all of that land given you've got this big Albatross on it or you you de demolish the building ourselves and and perhaps down the road 10 20 years down the road we build something else on it um that's going to cost a significant amount of money we'd have to borrow money to do that so um any direction you go in this I think this committee has to be prepared it's going to cost something it's going to cost a significant amount of money no matter what what direction we go so anyway that's it's really I just want to make make that pretty clear great thank you Christopher in terms of and I don't know if you know this but in terms of the RFP you said it's going to be back in sometime in October is there any sort of timeline of assuming we get responses that um of the request for proposals is there any sort of timeline of how long it might take um the propo someone to actually put together a plan of this nature is it three months 6 months is it a year I guess I'm just trying to gauge is this something conceivable that it would be for next annual town meeting or is that too too aggressive of a timetable do you have any any idea so I can tell you I'm looking up right now the actual proposal I believe that it was uh I I I believe it was it was a response or a uh a delivery date by I want to say June so not in time for the next town meeting um but I am going through this right now here uh just to see when the scope work delivery was supposed to be here yes okay so project schedule term of service shall commits immediately and and uh completion currently estimated to be on or before June 30th 2025 um there was some discussion as to whether uh not not the committee but there was some discussion about whether to to kind of to shorten that up and the the feedback that was given was that if it's going to be with the length and breadth of this of this study that it's going to have to be at a June June delivery okay so we wouldn't be likely looking at an article at annual town meeting for for for this since we wouldn't have the results so no um I think that they the it's certainly possible that a a special election maybe uh for Could Happen uh and I think there's there's been some some thoughts towards that but but that's extremely preliminary at this point of course so great are and has the committee or the select board or the com and I see Evan joined us and maybe um anybody can answer this but is there have been the discussions of what to do with the building until this until a decision is made because I know we've talked about not using it and insurance and boarding it up and having issues with plumbing and what's do we have a short-term plan or you know so there there have been extensive conversations discussions and and uh and I guess actions taken uh between the the town and the school committee uh the school committee um we did decide to move out certain student facing uh offices from that building into the uh into into uh the the remaining buildings in order to uh basically we did not do go with the original plan of moving everyone out of the of the high school uh administrative offices right now that was to some extent um to make it easier on the town and easier on on on Jim as as he continues to try and jump through a bunch of Hoops here there is still a question of insurance costs um it is my understanding that there was a disconnect between what the insurance uh what what the insurer thought the building was being used for and what what it is being used for um and they're we're going on a few months now without a a clear uh a clear answer on exactly what kind of additional Insurance costs town is looking at right now based on the uh based on the current occupancy rate as well as any future change in the occupancy rate so that that's still an out uh still a question right now um I I know that it has been brought up in select board meetings a couple times as far as uh you know what what's going to happen come winter uh I know that there are all there are also there's at least one uh recreational League youth recreation League that still going to be utilizing the facility and of course elections be held at that that being a polling place so um the the full answer is that discussions have continued to be Ono but there's no don't have a lot of resolutions as as to even shortcom right now for sure great thank you okay well that's ongoing right any other questions on on this so far go ahead Michelle I don't have a question on that I mean I have many questions on that but there are no answers so um but I did I did have a followup from um previous meetings regarding the um the electric electricity and the credits was there a followup there did they get the credits did the bill get paid was that all settled it to the best of my knowledge um which was I guess updated as of last week uh that has not been resolved yet um the issue is squarely on eversource this is an issue with uh an accounting and and um the basically there's a question of why credits aren't showing up based on the generation that's occurring it's one particular solar farm um this continues to be an issue uh but again it is this is ever source's issue um there are bills that are piling up but at the same time uh you know we C the school committee certainly hasn't received any shut off notices and ever source is aware that this is the ball is in their court and until till they uh get their house in order there's not much we can do unfor but I I do know that it is it is now a significant a somewhat significant deficit based on the I imagine it would be right thank you thank you so um I just on on on the topic of the long-term building committee and I I think following up for other agenda items that we have topics for next meetings and whatnot um last year we um the finance committee and the select board and some members of the school committee it wasn't a full school committee that joined the join the calls we had a a a nice budget kickoff meeting to really discuss the fiscal budget as a whole and where are we seeing and and what are we going to do and we had our first meeting was in October um and then we had two in January and although October may seem early it's really not so so um you know when you're thinking about it's not just the fiscal budget in front of you it's five-year planning and and all of that so um it's not that early to be thinking about um potentially looking to schedule another meeting because by the time we get all the parties to schedule it'll probably be November anyway um but you know this the long-term building committee uh the brings up the topic uh the topic that I'm I'm bringing up is as Cindy pointed out whatever gets done potentially with this building is going to cost lots of money so again I want to bring forth I think the town officials need to prioritize where we're going to spend the money so not very long ago we had a at our annual town meeting there was a pretty sizable request for water and sewer and we all know that uh the debt exclusion was not passed um but but there are still conversations and there are members that are still pursuing avenues for that uh and it was discussed that there's some significant environmental issues and the state may Force us to do the town to do things ET and so I'd like to understand have we abandoned that project and now because we have two projects that are in the 30 plus million right so are are we not going to pursue a water and sewer and now look to ask the residents to fund the school and then that would then Prelude I think any other big project to ever happen so if one passes I can never see two passing right so what's the town's priority is is it this building is it other infrastructure what is the priority and I you know I think that's a conversation for to have with the select board and that's part of long-term planning and that's part part of capital planning go ahead Hugh yeah I'm just gonna say we have to wait to hear what the committee says my view is very simple get rid of it it's quite elephant the idea of creating more chaos by consolidating other office buildings and so into something that but we will see what the committee says and then we can react to it it's easier in my view to get have a small expense now which clears the decks maybe a significant expense but still not a long-term expense but that's our decision be made now our discussion comes after there are recommendations that we have something to react to as far as the sewer is concerned people have their own reactions I thought it was pretty clear the town wasn't going to go or that at that point May there'll be a change of heart but it still required exclusion vote which is not an easy thing to do I recall lost by about two to one so it wasn't close no I appreciate all that I'm not trying to rehash the the conversation of being for or not in favor or all of the reasons but um you know there there were a lot of other elements that were in you know told expressed to us through the committee um that there's many other reasons to potentially pursue this and one of them was the state may come down and force something upon the residents um so again I'm just you know thinking as the residents from the resident standpoint so if we pursue a significant debt exclusion or potential on on the school then then might we all have to then pay some more funds for something else that no one wants to do but you know we we only have so much in our back pockets so I just want us to all be cognizant of where we're really at and what we'd be asking Our Town residents to pay for go ahead Christopher uh thank you madam chair so I won't rehash the uh the thoughts on the long-term build or on the the school building but I I would like to say I I don't know if this is I don't know where if anywhere this is the purview of the finance committee but I will say that based on the fact that town voted as as Mr Mor mentioned they they voted very clearly against the project uh the Su project as it was presented um subsequently the select board has voted to pursue imminent domain takings for pumping stations uh now whether or not that is using arpa funds or any other uh you know segregated Town funds I I I have a serious issue with that I'm wondering I don't know if there if like I said if this is even the perview of the finance committee but it does seriously concern me that the town is expending These funds to uh to do these Internet domain takings without a project that's been approved by uh by the voters so that's just my two thoughts on on that yeah let me and thank you and and you know the finance committee is here to help advise and and help make sure the res we the residents understand what's going on but to to answer your point on the uh the select board actions uh the select board has the authority to expend the arpa funds without um without going to town meeting or without requesting the advice of the finance so they have chosen to do what they've done and they have authority to do so um so you know I have my own opinions on that but I don't need to share them at the moment but um but they did have authority to do that so that that is their the select Bo's preview and it's not part of the finance committee to um to respond to that necessarily but um D did you have your hand up and then dunan have his hand up yeah I I guess I'm just you know I reflecting on what Cindy said and and you know and Karen what you said I mean we have no money I mean it this seems like a Fool's errand you know unless we're going to tear the building down at the at the minimum amount I mean I don't know where we're going with this I I just I'm a new kid on the Block I'm new to the finance committee but I honestly don't understand we don't have any money it's a very valid point um go ahead Al I have been over the last three months um accosted uh at a variety of places in in a good way asked from people who have asked why the finance committee does not engage more with overall looking overall at the financial impact in a three-dimensional way those are my words as opposed to looking at a very specific thing and saying yes no or whatever and I think what the people were really trying to say is what is the impact the long term not just the cost of and we use sewer and water as an example I'm not beating up on sewer and water uh in this particular conversation I've got plenty of other ways of doing that but it's it's what what is the three-dimensional cost to the town what does it what does it mean for a Briggs Road fire station for example what does it mean by uh for uh a buildout of the um uh you know uh affordable housing or housing on that Corridor and the schools and um are we missing an opportunity because my understanding and I and I believe that I'm correct but I but I I I could certainly be wrong is that if we vote for the sewer and water the people that own the property along the the caror that we're talking about would pay the frontage fee whatever that might be but then they can build out afterwards and the fact of the matter is that that that number would be significantly less and what I've heard is oh don't worry the select board can create fees and whatever well you know I'm from the government I'm here to help you and and we'll leave it at that so what I'm getting at is is that maybe what we should consider doing as a subcommittee or as a group or maybe not at all I mean it's it's it's at the uh you know at at the will if you will of of this finance committee to help these different committees do a deep dive and be able to present to the taxpayer the the true economic uh cost and revenue if you will of a particular project and we use sewer and water but clearly these um uh this consultant that we're talking about having Christopher and Cindy if I'm unless I'm wrong uh for for the uh for the building is trying to look at a a similar type of situation with that and which I think is positive because if we keep the building and and and then I'll I'll end it we still have other buildings we still have other properties we still have other things so what is the overall um impact to the taxpayer of the town so I'll leave it at that but it's just some food for thought um on on different issues uh relating to the town not just um uh you know the shiny new object that is in front of us at any given point in time yeah thank you and absolutely I think it's all of the above Al so where does the in my opinion where does the finance committee stand so certainly our responsibility is when there's something in front of us to advise at town meeting or make a recommendation but the finance committee is also quote the financial Watchdogs right so we're supposed to be looking out for things and and that's part of why the finance committee has lons on all the committee so this way we're kept a breast of something that's going on and then we can provide feedback or or kind of have some more conversations on that but uh and that's why I was throwing out um that we should Pro my suggestion is that we should try to schedule the next joint meeting with the select board because this is all long-term capital planning this is all planning this is all things that we should be involved in those discussions um and participating in so I you know I think we we we should be um go ahead Hugh I just want to pick up on BR talked about some exercise of eminent domain could you tell me more about that sometimes M domain is simply a practical way of dealing with possible title issues really doesn't mean anything when I wasn't aware of anything it had been acquired by imminent domain so could you fill me in please CHR you can you can fill it in yes I so I believe there were two properties um that there was a this is a couple of couple of Select board meetings ago uh there were two properties where the select board Mo moved to or voted to to move ahead with uh with takings of these properties these two properties where pum stations were going to be constructed as part of the previous SE proposal um and the select board voted it was not a unanimous vote but but the select board voted to uh to begin the process of of imminent domain taking so I I don't believe um it it's happened yet uh but it it is it's in the works and I think as I recall I think it was our the funds that they they were using for that so and see questional expenditure if the project is moment is dead and you're right it's within their Authority right and you know right and so the so you're I believe that it's correct they are using some arper funds which do expire at the end of the year so they need to be used by the end of the year so that was some of the justification to use up those funds um why do they just have a party that's a be a better use the fund and buying land for something that was not going to happen ridicul I completely agree so well that doesn't mean that it's that it's never going to happen Okay so I mean I think that's the feeling is that because they voted it down once I mean how many how many times did they vote the marijuana issue I mean because it was voted down perhaps in a different format or in a different reiteration of betterments I mean I think that there was a very large lack of information or or information that the home owner could understand so I'm I don't think that this is a Dead Issue by any stretch maybe it doesn't come back next year maybe I but maybe three years from now it will maybe five years from now it will maybe the state will will mandate some of this so I think that this issue with the pump stations and is my understanding from watching the board meeting these were semifriendly takings these were not uh contentious eminent domain takings that one one of them is a parcel of land in front of the meat Works um building and they seem to be fine I didn't understand the issue between they said that both owners were fine with the takings but yet they were going to be eminent domain so I I didn't really understand how that works why they couldn't just sell them that that parcel but it had to be eminent domain I guess break that to some extent taking cuts off any title issues so friendly my it's just it's just a technique rather than anything I'm I'm just dealing with the money that's all yeah so the yeah the money was there and it was It was kind of already allocated toward that that project and it needs to be done prior to the end of this calendar year um in my opinion it it it doesn't because it voted down once it doesn't mean that it's dead forever and I you will see this project come back again there is no doubt in my mind it will be it will be addressed again in the future yeah just to and again I don't want this to turn into a water sewer because we don't this is not on our agenda but we are talking about um kind of what led into this but you know my concern is that federal dollars although they expire at the end of the year and have to be used there plenty other re places that it can be used for current needs today right now rather than spend funds on a maybe three years from now right so that's sunken money so there's money that can be used today to deal with today's needs and it could Bristol County Bristol County is is is is rather particular as to how some of those Opera monies were were going to be used the the the uh State money the unallocated State money was not as much of a a a pickle as to what you spent it on so if if you got it approved from Bristol County and it had already been approved it's very difficult to get other types of projects approved we've already done an ambul we went through a lot of the a lot of the the costs that were allowable under the Bristol County plan but I'm not saying there weren't other things that could have been done time was time was an issue the project had already been approved for that particular expense and it is what it is thank you anything else on that uh no okay great so I'm looking at my email to see if Steve fors uh I sent him an email I do not see him so he must have um forgot about tonight's meeting but uh but I think I can summarize a little bit in a nutshell um so Christopher this is in no way personal at all to to you uh it's not personal at all but um as as as we all know Christopher is an elected School Committee Member and is is presently on the finance committee and we I know Christopher did a lot of research with the state and the state determine that uh they don't have uh anything in particular where it violates a conflict of interest with from the state standpoint but they did say um if it's in town by in some cases it could be in town bylaws that pre preclude finance committee members from being elected officials on other um on any other any other elected officials and so uh the town of Westport does not have that in the bylaw and the town moderator done some research um with some other towns and found uh some language that's used in uh several other towns that he's worked with that um if the if we so chose to add that language to to the town bylaw and that would have to go through annual town meeting um that that that could preclude uh that could address the conf the conflict of interest that we're we're talking about here so that's what he was going to come on to talk about go ahead Christopher thank you madam chair so I did do extensive research to make sure that this would not be considered legally a conflict of interest um I think it's really important to mention here uh none of these are paid positions so I'm certainly not getting getting rich off my my work on the school committee or the finance committee it's in fact in some ways exactly the opposite but um I I think that excuse me to be perfectly Frank the idea that it could be perceived as a conflict of interest I think is indicative of an unfortunate state of our of our town discussions right now because I think that there has been somewhat of an adversarial footing that either committee has have been on for for a while and I I I think I don't think that's that's certainly not anybody any any particular person or committee's fault I think it just there's been obvious tension for many years uh in this town between the town side and and the school side and and I guess my my feeling very strongly is that that tension need not be there and if there is absolutely anything that I can do to try to alleviate that tension including uh concurrently serving on both committees I I intend to do that it's it's my intention to bring an understanding of the school budget to the finance committee um you know and and I think that there are certain things that came up last year during uh finance committee and school committee a couple joint meetings actually uh where I heard things from the school side that didn't make sense to me uh things like when when circuit breakers hit when when the adjustments are made um why some months look ridiculous compared to others and and and a lot of it just comes down to the fact that sometimes there's no Rhyme or Reason as to knowing when when state reimbursements are going to come uh and now that I am able to do deep dives into the school budget I have a better understanding of why why things are the way they are and why and also why it it it's sometimes very hard to explain on the school side and that's a perfect example of something that I want to be able to help th this committee uh understand going forward so I you know I do intend to continue serving on on both committees uh and and I again my my main point of view here is that I I want to be a a uh if you want to call it a change agent or or whatever but I I I just want to try as best I can as best as one person can to remove this this adversarial footing because I mean it is the town and the school are not separate entities it is it is the town of Westport and and in both of these committee roles I My ultimate uh I ultimately answer to the the town's people and the the taxpayers Westport so that's that's my opinion on the matter I and I appreciate you a chance to speak on it great thanks chrisopher go Ahad you I accept the face value there's no proabition against serving on both committees however it's a classic conflict of interest in a general sense there's one pot of money that is available to the town it's allocated among the schools in the town it's perfectly obvious that someone's a member of the school committee I don't say that with any criticism has an allegiance first to the school committee the membership of the finance committee is to the town as a whole the allegiance rather than individual I accept that it's appr that it is permissible for someone to serve on both committees but I would think that the finance Committee Member would then recuse himself from anything pertaining to the school committee because of the obvious um other potential of being an advocate for one of the constituent rather the town as a whole is not necessarily A a precedent that anybody gone by but I remember our long standing committee members Bob McCarthy recused himself from dealing with the police department not that he had any connection but he had an association in the past and family members who were involved with it no financial interest either way he thought is not appropriate to deal with something where his Allegiance could be questioned I think that's the right answer but I understand it is not mandatory thank you Hugh um Cindy go ahead I agree a lot with what uh with what you said I mean I think that there is an issue where it comes down to yeah recusing yourself from the largest budget that we have in town being the most significant factor in town and really you you you should recuse yourself from voting on that particular budget I can certainly appreciate your um desire to want to be that change agent as you described as well as trying to um relay helpful information uh both ways I mean you know you you you say how there might be information from the school side that was a little bit uh perhaps confusing or unfamiliar to the finance committee well I think vice versa as well I mean I think that there are issues that the finance committee has to deal with that perhaps the school committee cannot appreciate as a as a body whole which I think in the last two years I think they they come a long way in understanding that it is a fin finite pot of money that we're dealing with that any dollar that is allocated more to one budget is taken away from the other it's not oh well just tax more it's a finite pot of money and that that's you know that that that's square one that everyone has to start with it's only there's only so many dollars so that being said I mean I think uh everything you described Christopher is absolutely true but that could also work with the liaison so any liaison from the finance committee that is is um uh is presented to to the school committee as being the liaison for that committee should have the same access that you know we all deal in public meetings these are all public meetings you've been you know attending all of the finance committee meetings we do not discuss anything that uh the public doesn't hear this meeting is being recorded the the the general public will hear everything that we have discussed we don't have offline meetings we don't have executive session none of those things so I think it's you know it's a little bit of people opening their ears and understanding a little bit on either side I don't think it requires a membership of either one to be able to do that I mean I think that whoever is the liaison to the to the schools I think we've had a breakdown in communication in that regard in the last in the last few years I think that that part should should change uh and vice versa that someone from the school committee wants to understand how the finance committee works is certainly welcome to attend any one of the meetings that we have so I don't think it necessarily requires being a member of both to be able to uh get to that change that that you're you are fostering which I think is is fabulous I think it's very much uh needed but I don't think it it requires that you be a member of each part because we're all part of public bodies that should have all of our meetings in public your budget sessions in in schools are are certainly public and as well as ours are so um there shouldn't be too much mystery between the two uh between the two thanks Cindy and I just want to be clear too I I agree with what you said Cindy and and Hugh as well so this isn't about the school committee this isn't about that this is about the finance committee should should be independent in nature and should be perceived to be independent in nature so even if technically the state didn't doesn't preclude it there's a perception of lack of Independence and when there's a perception of lack of Independence that becomes a challenge so again it's not it it's not the school committee the it the way this stands as well you could be anybody could be a library liary an elected Library trustee and it's the same issue a finance Committee Member could be elected to the select board under under our scenario right now and those are things that really lack Independence but the bylaws don't preclude it so it could happen and so I think the what you know what this brought up was we should really look at our bylaws as other towns have done and make sure that the finance committee remains independent and and doesn't have uh isn't able to be an elected official on any other body not just the school committee this is not about the school committee this is about any anybody so that's what this is this is this is about Michelle did you want to go ahead because Christopher's up but you haven't spoken yes thank you um I would I I think what everybody what everything that everybody said is all true right can all be true at the same time and I appreciate Christopher's sentiment because I had the same when I was um when I was finished with my term on school committee I had um sent a uh an email to the town moderator to request to be a member of the fincom it was a member that had left and he wouldn't allow it at that time because he thought I was too soon off of the school committee so I wasn't even on the school committee so it was about a year before he appointed me to the finance committee for that reason and I do appreciate it I what you just said Karen I think is so true perception becomes reality sometimes people think you're doing things for the wrong reason or you know you really don't know what somebody's doing but I I I appreciate what Christopher is saying because I had the same thought there was so many things I didn't understand about town budget and how it all works and you want to learn all of that to help be that change agent so I highly recommend excuse me that we get something in writing we shouldn't just like wait and not do it because I it's not just a school committee it could be somebody from another committee another department whatever it may be um and think it it it should be clear before people want to make those choices before people are appointed um or where things you know get further along and you're part of a board and then you find out you can't be part of that board um so I just I highly recommend that we get something in the bylaws thank you Michelle and we appreciate you being here as part of a change agent too so we appreciate you know the more we all understand and again as as Cindy had said that we you know Christopher and I appreciate everything that you're doing and and that could be part of the lison as well so it doesn't need to necessarily be on both committees but um the emphasis can should still be there that we're talking with each other and working together um as as we are one town so go ahead Christopher thank you madam chair so I did want to go back and mention that it is my intention to reuse myself from votes that uh deal with with the school uh budget um I I can see the the argument for for a potential bylaw change and and if that were to come come uh come to to town meeting I you know I I may I may well even support support that because I do understand again the perception here uh the potential for for the perception But ultimately the only thing that I will push back on that I have heard is the idea of of loyalty because I will tell you that I take very seriously my charge as both a member of the finance committee and as a member of the Westport school committee the charge is to do things in the best interest of the taxpayers and voters of the town of Westport ultimately that is my charge um and and I I say again I I do intend to to fulfill uh that that charge and and I again will will certainly recuse myself from votes but at the same time I think that in terms of being able to help with uh the advising or the shall we say providing information providing an understanding between uh the entities um I intend to do that so that's I appreciate everybody's thoughts on this thanks Christopher so um the town moderator had I believe he had some language that I haven't seen it so I can't share it um that had some language that other towns had used in their bylaws that he was going to share with us and so there may be he want I think we wanted GA if we had if it would if it would move ahead to an article which would be at next annual town meeting because the town residents need to vote to change bylaws that you know if it would if it would be an article that would be supported by the finance committee or or would we or would it have to be uh then of course supported by the select board to put it on the warrant um or if it needs to be done by petition or any of that nature so I think that's where um we were just trying to have a conversation on that but I again I haven't seen the language but I think it it's simple language that says it precludes finance committee members from being any other elected official I think it's something as simple as that um go ahead Hugh I just going say that makes perfect sense but I suggest we defer the discussion until we have something to respond to yes that's why he was supposed to be here at 6:30 but we'll um I'll when I uh we'll we'll we'll schedule it for the next meeting we certainly have plenty of time before town meeting um to get that going but uh anything else for anybody Cindy go ahead um I would like to make sure that this year we have um the representative um from Westport that serves on the Diamond uh School Board to uh make a pres to come before the finance committee uh you know they've got this construction project going on um I don't think we've had a good read on what that project is about how big over budget under budget the last I read the city of Fall River has some issues about funding uh that they may have violated their own laws uh regarding uh regarding how how they can how they can pay for it and they may in fact have to go before uh the voters to approve um to approve the uh the the long-term borrowing uh but I'm not sure that that's still true uh I've always had issues about their budget uh because they just set a budget and we have to pay for it I mean no matter it could be up 5% it could be up 15% and we it's no questions asked it the bill is just delivered to us so um we haven't had someone from Diamond since I've been on the committee uh which is I don't know what five years now um we've never had actually someone that represents diamond in front of the finance committee so I would like to make sure we schedule that in our budget meetings this year sure we could um I don't know who the liaison is I don't know that we have it used to be Tracy and I'm not sure who I don't know that anybody ever a is his name Paul why am I thinking Paul I don't know I don't know yeah I can't remember his name we'll have to ask the select board or Jim the Town Administrator um it's just a suggestion yeah sure we'll put that as a topic for good one yeah because it's it's it's it's almost like these time share condos you know there's there's no end end game to how much uh we're gonna have to write out a check for until the end and right it's it's it's kind of crazy in a way and you know and I guess to be fair we should have Bristol AGI come in as well I mean you know I I don't mean to pick on on diamond it's just I know they have this you know Mammoth construction going on I and I don't know how they are set financially with that Bristol's already Bristol AG has already done their construction they finished that um but you know it'd be it'd be good for someone to have to at least make an appearance and justify their budget sure absolutely any so um anything else for future meetings so we'll we'll have to figure out when that it might be good Cindy for to see if that diamond could come in in the November time frame before we really kick into budget season to really talk about the construction that might be a nice time would you like me to follow up with the admin Town Administrator and also get an appointment with with the um with whoever person is okay teric i' appreciate that thank you much appreciated um so in terms of topics for next meeting we talked about it a little bit that you know I I think it makes sense at some point to have a another uh request to have a joint meeting between the finance committee the select board and the school committee does anyone feel that that would be something that of interest to everyone yes yes you think maybe the yes okay maybe Z has Zack has go ahead Zack yeah I think it would be a great idea I think the more we can narrow in the purpose of it the more direct will be during the meeting so it's not so open-ended um so if we were going to meet as three committees it would be nice as a finance committee to kind of understand the goal going into it great perfect good idea perfect okay um do you think the November time frame is a good time frame yeah I'll try I'll try to throw I'll I'll talk to the chair of the the select board um to see if she wants to chair the meeting or or defer to me to chair but um or even um we or join we'll see but um and then we'll get try to get some dates together so um I'll let let them presented at their next maybe their select board meeting to get some ideas would I would I would just suggest that if if uh if it's a fincom uh request of meeting that that that uh we host you chair and they come I know I was trying to get off the hot seat Al I know I know that sounds like a thank it sounds like a Thanksgiving dinner invite right yeah but more more more importantly we should set the agenda you know meeting about the agenda right right absolutely okay right so the next meeting we could we could talk about the agenda as Zach indicated I think it's a great idea that we make sure we have a clear um a clear ideas to what we're trying to accomplish in this meeting and it's not you know open-ended so objectively too you know right right right so maybe we can try to get a date on a calendar and then we'll follow up with some of the specifics of the agenda okay certainly the budget is will be one of the topics clearly so we we know that um okay okay anything else from anyone um I do not have any topics that came up within 48 hours I do not have any correspondence uh we talked about topics for next agenda so that will definitely be talking about about um that meeting so meeting schedule we're still on the one a month uh time frame and then maybe at next month's meeting we can put together a schedule for Budget meetings and then uh shoot try to shoot those out early to the Departments to get them scheduled it's kind of nice to get get it on the books and potentially do the similar what we did this past year that we did a couple of meetings in December to get the easy ones out of the way and then January we kind of hit it hard weekly and then we're almost done and then the school is the last uh last last budget meeting in the early February time frame but we can put a schedule together see if that works for everybody I have nothing else anyone else all right good me oh yeah well we you know time to go plenty of time to make plenty of time to make popcorn for the debate I was thinking of popcorn yeah way you can throw it at the screen that's why Cindy Cindy a while ago got me for another reason H for Christmas a Nerf football so that I could throw the damn thing at the screen every time I didn't like all right well I will motion to motion to ajour thank you so much Christopher Christopher threr I thank you L Al Le I Cindy Cindy Brown I Duncan Duncan law I Hugh Hugh Morton I Michelle Michelle Alando I Zach Zack Le Bru I and Karen RS I thank you everyone we'll catch you next month thank you thank you bye