uh welcome everyone today is Tuesday March 19th 2024 this is the finance committee meeting it is 6:31 and I'd like to call the meeting to order with a pledge of allegiance I pledge of allegiance to the flag flag Al Karen you're in black and white also I don't know why I mean there's a little tinge of color but you're definitely not in color I don't know why oh you're all In Color to me yeah uh this meeting uh just one second let me do the chair's announcement this meeting is being held remotely in accordance with the governor of Massachusetts March 12 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law GLC 30A section 20 and on March 29th 2023 Governor Haley signed a supplemental 2023 budget Bill allowing Mo remote and hybrid meeting options for public parties through March 31st 2025 this meeting is being recorded well welcome everyone so I am in I see myself in nearly black and white I don't know why but you can hear me okay right yeah yes okay I just froze but yes okay go ahead okay if um I don't know if maybe I have a we weak internet so um if I freeze I'll turn my uh video off if that's I don't know what's happening here um okay well um we are reviewing Warren articles tonight and our first um waren article is going to be shaa do you have anyone here that you need doesn't look like you need to call your all my phone of friends did not dial in so I'm on I'm on my own you certainly do not have a I do not see anyone okay so we don't need to call the meeting to order um so the first um the first article we're going to talk about we've invited um well internet advisory committee to speak and before we get started um Christopher is here uh Christopher I want to just turn the floor over to you for a second thank you m chair so I just wanted to now I do have a potential of Interest due to a client that uh that I have that is working with uh or work working against uh M municip Broadband networks in other towns so I'm not going to participate in this conversation but I I uh G to be attending you know in attendance for the uh for the meeting but I will be recusing myself from the conversation and any kind of v on this great thank you Christopher um so shaa is here I just saw David Cole come into the meeting so Shauna did you want to um start off and start the presentation on the uh article that we are talking about from the internet advisory committee thank you very much shaa sure sure I'm happy too and I had I now have my phone a friend here David Cole but we still don't have a forum so we're good um I I think was the committee sent this little presentation did you get the whole pres PowerPoint presentation k you're on mute maybe somebody can tell me Karen you're on mute I'm gonna mute every could everybody else please mute there's some background noise going on did I just want to know did you guys get the whole deck yes they did okay all right I'm only gonna talk about like four pages so don't worry I just wanted to make sure you had background information um so we had um most of the the deck that um the part that I'm not going to talk about today um the internet advisory committee presented to the select board on December 4th and um we kind of gave the whole history like you can you can read all those slides at your leisure um but from that December 4th presentation we had several um open questions that we thought were still remaining about whether and how to proceed with the municipal life plant or um how we might you know run fiber broadband and then kind of next steps so um we're really here this article kind of represents what we think is the first kind of step in the form of oversight um that that we think is necessary for moving forward and then um looked we looked at the options for what kind of Public Authority could best um support the Municipal Light PL so these were the kind of the questions that this article is trying to answer um so article 32 um the gist of it is that we want the Municipal light board to be elected officials and so it kind of spells out you know to when you're creating a committee you you do a three-year a two-year and a one-year term but the gist is that we're we're proposing a five member board um that would be elected um to office to serve in that specific capacity um it's important to note that if we don't elect the board then um the default board is the uh select board so um it's not like it doesn't change whether or not you're gonna I know we can talk about in a minute but it doesn't change whether or not you're going to have a municipal lightboard um or Municipal plant it just means that it would be elected people separately rather than um the select board because the select board is the default so when we think about what we think the Municipal light board should be tasked with um a lot of it is things that um we the internet advisory committee is doing now but the internet advisory commit is just advisory to the select board and is obviously not elected we're appointed by the select board so we look at like the most important things that this entity whatever it ends up looking like needs to do is really looking at the um how to construct and operate the fiber brand network with construction being really really key um in order to do that you need funding and so we've been looking at a number of different funding models we've been looking at Grants um we've been looking at public private partnership um and then where we have um availability of the loops um we don't have anything to the home yet but if we were to go forward with some of the loops that already exist and get to the Home Service then um somebody needs to to run that somebody would need to manage the operations of of that plan so really the I think really the the major thing that this group needs to do is is explore this public private partnership opportunities and explore a coalition with other communities um we really feel really strongly that we do not want taxpayers to be on the hook for construction of this network we want subscribers to be paying for the construction of the network and um we had originally thought that we would be able to do um like some bonding or some separate funding um separate from the regular Town budget um but what we've learned in the last couple years is that um to funding really the way to fund it uh is if you're going to bond it it was General obligation bonds from the town it would' have to go through de exclusion and and be backed by the tax space and we don't really want to do that um so really there an opportunity here for this public private partnership but we need somebody to um be able to research that negotiate with the partners talk to other communities it really needs to be somebody who's kind of exploring that for real and is tasked with doing that so the select board doesn't have the capacity to focus on the activity so the I think I'm just gonna pause because I think I now have a quorum um so we have myself and Renee just joined and Duncan and David So if it's okay with you Karen I would like to call my and Keith just Jo please do okay so I'm gonna call me to order for the internet advisory committee there we go um thank you just for the record yeah so joining me um we have Keith noo is the IT director for the town David Cole can probably answer lots more question questions than I could about this um and then we have Renee kman who's on the committee and then obviously Duncan law is your representative on the committee um so kind of moving back so so this David Cole has done heroic effort of trying to find grants and um re and and Keith too Keith and David um looking for Grants we're looking for um opportunities with other communities we're looking at started to talk about some public private Partnerships but they really we really need somebody tasked with doing this as like their responsibility the select board just doesn't have the capacity to focus on it and there's really too many issues before the select board um for them to be able to really give it the full attention that they need if it's elected then you can have accountability for that to the tax pay or to the voters anyway of people you're electing people who are going to pce pursue um what uh what the uh voters want them to pursue so the eventual hiring management of the system is going to require a board eventually if you started running it or when you started running it um you would hire you'd hire a company to oversee the operations in management and you'd hire a director but um the board would be the one kind of deciding on that model I want to be really clear I know we've said this like on every time the the light plant has come before people but it doesn't mean we have to move forward with the project it it's highly it it's it what we need is focused attention on how to move the project forward and whether it's even possible to move the project forward so um this is not not authorizing anybody to spend any money all authorization of funding still has to go through town meeting just like every other appropriation in town um and but it would mean that you're getting people focused on the issue so um that's why we're proposing it's being elected just in full disclosure I has some reservations about this I actually think there might be some value in it being an appointed board um because then you could actually guarantee certain criteria for the people that are there um so I think there's still some conversation that could be had about whether the Municipal light board should be elected or whether is she appointed um but this would give us the Capac the ability to have it be [Music] elected so I'm going to just ask um Keith did I miss anything Key there that you want to add um no not yet I I think you're right on so far and then David how about you did did I miss a key factor here D's un mute so I'm not sure he's okay so that's what I had Karen so I don't know if you want me to thank you call Hugh Hugh has his hand up and I'll I'll I'll like Hugh go for wa I think David is pping David I'm sorry I I was muted I oh hi David I I think this is a next step forward as Sha has said it doesn't uh it's not Crossing the Rubicon it's just moving towards it and we have had two votes in town meeting overwhelming votes in favor of moving in this direction and so this is bringing to the next town meeting the kind of The Next Step and it's following in the pattern of other towns that have gone before us and repeating the patterns that they followed and so I I think it it just it's meeting our commitment to the town meeting voters who wanted us to move in this direction thank you thank you David um anyone else from the committee this the appropriate I think so Hugh you've got the floor now go ahead thank you I just want to say I'm reassured by this since I'm not sure I agree with David that the town was all in favor of this they were voting to have something stay alive to be considered further in the future I think but having said that I'm reassured that this is not a case where the town is going to be issuing a bunch of financing for this and that I see this is basically a enshrine of the Cent committee I mean different Personnel being and so forth which really is an entity which will be available to contract with people will finance compare and so forth if in fact there are those people around so in that pis I'm not opposed the project per se it was a question of financing and how all that would play out in this reassures me that the town is not going to be in the hook but there'll be an entity which can make AR range ments with people to provide the Sur if and as and when they are around that's fine anything else you at the moment no I think that was what what I want great thank you Cindy go ahead um you know I agree with uh with shaa about the you know the little bit of a concern about appointed versus elected is there such a thing as a hybrid board that you could have elected officials and include uh appointed officials to have a hybrid board I mean you know we have seen disasters in the past of you know popularity contest that manages to um occupy a position of importance uh that turns out to be not suitable for the responsibility that the position would would require so you know there are concerns about that I'm assuming that right now since there's no funding that this board would not have any any salary attached to it or any any any funding for uh any compensation for that board so you know maybe maybe there wouldn't be a line out the door for people to to try to um run for it but you know people have different motives and involved and and so I think I think there's reason for concern to make sure that you have qualif people in this position yeah I I myself have mixed feelings about it right um I know when we were talking about a different similar board that I don't know I don't think made it onto the warrant um there was a lot of talk about um and Jim might be able to elaborate on this more about the kind of you if you go with the select board doing it um the select board is like the default so the the select word would would would be the people unless you negotiate other ways but maybe Jim when we were talking about that other committee um we had like option b option 2B or something like that can can you maybe talk talk a little bit Jim about um if if it was appointed like what that mechanism is assuming it was the same as for that other committee yeah I'm not sure if it is the same right I don't know either way but um with the Sewer Commission um the commission would be either appointed um or it could be set up so that it could be the select board or it could be elected um that would be by vote at an annual Town election so that's not even town meeting that gets sent to town election for the Su commission but I think the Su commission is specific in their regulations yeah so so what would happen here is if it passes the if this pass um at town meeting um then it would go before the voters um in the next April election so you're you're talking about a delay could I comment on that U I think that the the legislation as I've read it authorizes only either an appointed board or an elected board and if you don't enact this authorization of an appointed an elected board now then by default the choic is for an appointed board and the I I can share sh's concern about you may get some people on there who are not uh the best people for the board but it's a five person board and it's still going to take a majority to enact things and I don't think well I think the chances of getting three people on a board like that who are all uh going in the wrong direction is not is a back Mark on our voters if that were to happen but I think it's a way of trying to find people who are really devoted interested in working on this and I've been following the model of Falmouth and I think they've gone through a very effective process of uh having an election for board and they've gotten people who all have some particular expertise or interest in it and we've got some people here who have that same kind of thing on the internet advisory committee Renee kotchman is involved very much in the uh work of the town of Fall River on their internet systems and Paul junus as a member of the advisory committee also heavily involved in this and Keith Novo is too I don't know exactly what Town employees could be elected for this that's something to be looked at but I think we can find people here in our community that are knowledgeable and dedicated and wanting to see this move forward and done right and this would open up the way to do that and the other thing is it doesn't have to take place at the next town uh public election I think that the the select board has the authority to put things on the ballot and authorizing this by this the passing of this article would not necessarily imply or require a timed response on my sense is that it could be done at the time when the select board thought that we were ready to do it thank you thank you that that answer my question thank you yeah I just want to underscore what Cindy's point no one's asking for any money for this department right now um they they and and I don't I wouldn't also wouldn't advocate for this group um actually managing The Entity like once you started rolling out and providing service I wouldn't think this group would do that either the group would have would hire somebody to do that whose profession was doing that great thank you go ahead Al you're on yep yep I'm back I'm back um just a quick question is there any way of renaming this Municipal light board to something that people understand not really the the legislation that enacted it is the Municipal Light plant and so it has a Municipal light board but I agree it's kind of goofy it's it's a very oldfashioned yeah I I'm I'm just wondering at least for the town's perspective if we could get a another name and then in parenthesis Municipal light board uh you know legislated by blah blah blah blah blah because I've had a number of people I don't want to say you know an overwhelming but a number of people that have asked me and I said I don't have a clue so it's just just a comment more than anything else David did you have a comment about that yeah the I think Taunton has found a way of labeling the company so that it it makes clear that it's a Broadband uh only company and I think we could do that um and so but for the action that has to be taken under the law I think we need to follow this nomenclature and but once we establish it they can U re they can change their name as they see fit okay be my understanding we may want to check that with our lawyers but I think that's a easily done okay yeah just that's that's all I wanted to say thank you thanks Al so I you know I want to share my sentiment that I I have the had the same question and a little concerns about it being an elected position elected board versus an appointed board because you know the the select board what you just even said shaa you've been on the committee for a couple of years and you're saying you know we want subscribers and we we want to do this well well that all changes potentially if you have an elected board that you don't have the authority to to you know oversight to right so that changes all of that um but my one question that I have on this elected potentially elected board and even future elected boards um I question should we be allowing or having an multiple elected officials who are elected officials on other boards to also be allowed on different boards because you start to get a little bit of a concentration of power there and I think one way that that could be avoided is if this was a paid if it was a paid board even if it was maybe a small amount so because I think the way that works from my following the conflict of interest policy that an elected official cannot sit on two different elected boards if both are paid and I'm just wondering if you've given thought to that on this on on on that I I didn't know that so I had not thought about that at all just something to consider yeah um Hugh did you have your hand up I did I just G to Echo what what Al said in a sense part of my initial caution about all this was the idea we're creating a an entity that will start running the electrical service for the town that is not true I understand that but that's after we've been discussing this Etc and the man of the street May well have the reaction that Al had not only I don't know what this is about but I'm not in favor of the town going into the electric light business there's no idea that that will happen but I can see how people assume that might be the case so so one thing I think that might help people feel better is the entity cannot spend money just like just like the select board can't spend money right it has to be appropriated at town meeting and it has to be source of Revenue that's described at town meeting right so um they you know once you are operating entity and you're getting operating income and that kind of thing it kind of works like an Enterprise fund is is I don't think it's exactly an Enterprise fund it's basically an Enterprise fund and so so there's no authority to spend any money so you can't really build much of a plant without spending any kind of money I think David wanted to answer that but just one more point I just looked it up and Falmouth is called there's the Falmouth Broadband MLP yeah yeah there you go sounds much nicer go I I think think that would be good for us to do that if we call it the Westbard Broadband MLP I agree no I I I I completely age agree with that as well I I just it it's it's too confusing for people and whether or not the spending Authority or not that that's a separate issue it's just the the concept of when people get a letter in the mail and they're talking about you know or they're reading about a m Municipal light board it just it just goes right over their head you know I mean and and mine as well so yeah okay great I thought Dave was gonna talk but he looks Frozen now Renee has go ahead Renee there we go you're on mute there you go yeah um thank you uh yeah I think you know even Broadband may may go over people's heads but I I do think it's it's an opportunity to do um some education you know maybe maybe get the uh the the cable TV people involved and maybe producing some some infomercials to uh to educate people on on on what this Broadband MLP will be uh tasked with um and I think it's just like anything else that's new uh we need to educate people as to as to what this is about so um I think that might be a way to do that thank you Renee go ahead David just I add that the attendees at town meeting didn't seem to have any confusion uh I mean the vote was 180 to2 at the last session to set up this so Municipal Light PL but I think it pays to relabel it the broad Bend MLP or the fiber optic MLP what something that makes clear what it is that it's a very different uh entity and providing very different Services uh from what already exists and it's not a light plan great David um I just want to reiterate Hugh's comment that he made about previous Town meetings and I would agree that I think the previous two town meeting votes were more administrative and rudimentary anything so there wasn't anything to be opposed about because there was no dollars there's no no nothing so I think uh we're a long way away from thinking that that meeting is a total support for the pro for the project but uh we'll see whenever the dollars get Associated to it that will uh that will tell um go ahead Al no excuse me I'm just going to tag on to what you just said 180 to 12 means 19 2 votes at a town meeting there are 16,000 people in this town and that has nothing to do with anybody in this room or anybody else but the fact is that it is not a it's a clear majority of the town meeting of people that attended but it's certainly not an overwhelming mandate from from the people in the town overall so that that was just my comment I've just try me again I with what Karen said a minute ago this was presented as this is doing nothing we need to do this to keep the door open for doing things in the future no reason to vote against it but voting for it was routine and didn't mean anything in my view and that's why this is in many ways a blank check which is fine I say I'm not opposing this in the least I'm just saying I wouldn't count on that vote as meaning much of any because the issue was advertised is not meaning anything we just need to do this to be able to do it again at some point in the future can I just add one thing we had a previous townwide survey uh covering uh then we had response of about 10% of the residents and also 10% of the businesses and the results of that survey came out very strongly in support of moving ahead with this program so it isn't just the vote in town meeting that's the one that's more clearly uh recordable but the survey uh got the same results so I I think they reinforced each other that's my point I just want I just want to say I I appreciate what David is saying but I also appreciate what the rest of you are saying it was kind of administrative thing it didn't mean that people want to pay money if it was free sure if it was free and wave magic want everybody sign up right but um it isn't and we don't know how even the internet advisory committee um is uh is not certain that we're going to be able to to meet our goal of saying no we don't want taxpayers to be on the hook for this we want subscribers to be on the hook for this and if we can't do that then even the internet advisory committee isn't really for going forward right we're trying to we're trying to do what we say I do want to float one more thing that came up super briefly on the um select board when we were talking about the warrant articles is um I I I maybe Jim remembered I I don't know if the Sewer Commission is actually on the warrant or not or if we took that off but um there was the idea that there was also kind of a very similar article to create a Sewer Commission um to to kind of manage the sewer the sewer um side of things and we did have a kind of a brief conversation about you know could they be the same could you have like an infrastructure um board or something but you really cannot because the Sewer Commission has a very specific um legal language and and responsibilities and the MLP has very specific legal language in M um that kind of thing so because I did think well it would be better if you'd have like one entity responsible for infrastructure but it wasn't um the way that they're laid out you can't really do that not not for the elected committees any great thank you does anyone else have anything uh Mr Unknown which I believe that's Gary so um this might be a little too soon to answer or maybe maybe we don't have the answer to these questions but as it starts to roll out and starts to maybe come to fruition um people are going to want to know what the costs are and and who's going to maintain this infrastructure and what that what that costs um has there been any discussion to that or sure of course it's it's in your packet actually um there's some information in your packet about some of that um let me see if I can find the right page uh sure Here's the the the projected cost really depends on the take rate so the take rate is how many what percentage of PE of um eligible residents pick it up so um you can see at a 50% take rate we're estimating about $76 a month for subscribers um there's more information about uh in the packet about um like buildout costs and things like that so who who will maintain this what what depart it would be a private the maintenance operation you can see there's a maintenance and operations this would be something that the municipal lightboard would Pro would most likely contract with somebody um to provide those Services is that based in these costs right here that that was when we projected it at the time this was this was the maintenance and operations yeah so any other the last question I have is what other towns have been successfulness in in Massachusetts David do you want to take that because I don't remember yeah they're roughly 400 towns across the country I think they're probably 40 or 50 in Massachusetts and some of them are gathered together in in groups there's a whip City fiber program that covers a number of very small towns in the western part of the state and then there are other towns around here Quincy and has has done it in Taunton as a system so uh there I can give you specific information but there are a lot of them that have done it and in Vermont they have a very strong State supportive program and they have many towns that have joined a Cooperative program that they're doing up there so uh it it's become very much a uh a common practice now and happening more and more and different sources of financing from the feds in the state that are trying to feed into that process so so this is these are communities that have fully vetted the whole process they actually have it implemented and they have subscribers yes yes and out of those communities that have done that are those communities are those are those communities self-supportive have they have the residents that opt to go into this program have they have they paid that on their own has the town yeah it's all been self it's been funded without pound funding it's funded by the subscribers and they are and they're prices are pretty consistently well below the prices of the ex existing internet private internet service providers this is also one of the reasons we want to look into um public private Partnerships so that we can kind of drisk the town and drisk the construction cost um by engaging a partner um to help with that now they share some of the profits but that's one of the funding mechanisms that really needs to be looked at a little bit more detail and also um a Cooperative with other communities because you can you can attract um you can attract a better partner if you have more subscribers right so um there's also this is what we really need somebody dedicated to look at some of these different options to to fund it yeah and out of the communities that you've mentioned how many are the same contract services that we have I mean is are are we comparing charta to uh maybe um you know Comcast are these are the ones that the the the people that you the communities that you're talking speaking of are they Charter already are they are some of those Charter yes some of them are Charter yes and uh they then in most cases they've gotten a very strong response in favor of moving ahead with the municipally own to replace the private internet service providers yeah yeah the last thing is the fear I have with all this is is not the fact that it that it couldn't work but that we implement this or it gets implemented then CH comes in and says okay I'm just making up a number you're offering this at $50 a month we're going to when now we're going to offer at $40 a month yeah the important thing here is that um the charter isn't going to it's it the to to get the to get the fiber Broadband to the home you have infrastructure that has to be installed right and they've been unwilling to do that right now because it it doesn't make fiscal sense for them to do that now it is one of the things that I had is um there might be new technologies in the future right that was supplanted so um maybe maybe your satellite internet is get getting really awesome and then you don't really need you know physical cabling but we also in Europe penics here we had we had um some conversation about that about um got find the right slide so so when you compare like starlink is 150 mtes per second fiber is you know much larger you can see the comparison this is the circle but um I I think that you know I don't think I don't think Charter is going to be the problem I because but I look at whether if you don't need lines to the home anymore then that might be where your content comes in but there's no indication that the technology where you don't actually need a hard cable to the home is anywhere close to the capacity of fibro okay thanks everybody great go ahead Hugh I just want to say these are all good points Etc but they're way Prem your yeah talking about creating an entity to negotiate something with somebody somehow doing something and we get around to that then there's a good question to focus on because I'm not so sure it's going to be as easy as people think but that's fine it'll play out because uh cable I I came Charter which is also Spectrum same organization provides cable TV and and and telephone as well so you're going to have a p if you a present customer taking everything from Charter from Spectrum it may or may not be in your interest to sign up for this if it's simply going to be um um internet access and may it maybe it will be but that'll all play out when there's actually a rabbit for the pot that is thinking about coming into town and making an arrangement now they're fine questions but I think we're not going to answer any of them tonight right and and that is not in front of us tonight so um if anybody has any other questions I'd love to wrap this up at this point um anything else no so I'll entertain a motion to adjourn the internet advisory committee committee sorry I was on mute and um I think do we have to roll call Vote Yes you do I think we do so I'm gonna uh the motion to we have a motion to adjourn the internet advisory committee David yeah I dun I think you have to say your name I David Cole Duncan you're on mute Duncan hi Duncan Love um Keith and then Rene I Renee I Renee kotchman and I sh she thank you very much for having us here thank you very much for coming appreciate it have a good night thank you good night all right thank you okay so Jim is here thank you Jim how are you doing well thanks good good good good so I think um we appreciate your being here because there's a lot of um Warren articles that I think you can give us a uh a couple of minute explanation which will help us immensely um and I think Cindy had talked to you about a few of them Cindy do you happen to have a list handy that we can kind of we don't need to go through every warant article just give me one one second I just have my notebook yep yeah sure thing Jim and while you're finding that Jim are you is the warrant going to be finalized at the next select board meeting where all the remaining um holes are going to be filled in do you anticipate that at the next meeting uh we're still working on it right now um it's just a few transfers and um couple of other minor things but I think for the most part everything's there okay it's been sent to Town Council for review and we going to hear back from them okay okay well those should be easy ones for us to vote on quickly once they're finalized but um I'd like to try to get through as many as we can because we do have a couple of bigger articles that we're still um talking about you got your list yes yes I do so the first one was uh article 21 I mean I'm assuming that the transfer you know the um prior year bills we still don't have information on that so there's nothing for us to discuss currently that was still kind of a question when we met but the first one that we had a a question on was Article 21 which I do not have the warrant in front of me but I will pull it up yep article 21 I'll read the little snippet um article 21 is to appropriate $1,620 from fund 20 account for purposes of financing repair replacement or upgrade of septic systems so my understanding is this These funds the 141,000 was put aside for uh septic systems if nitrogen reducing systems were installed they want to remove it from there so that it can be used for regular septic upgrades without nitrogen systems so this is kind of like this was a grant Lo is isn't this the revolving loan okay great um before we go on I I had circled Article 19 as well for Jim which was um to resend the amount of 211,000 approved under Article 13 oh sorry article 38 of the June 5th 2021 town meeting yes who's on this one I'm gonna let her take it but go ahead Sue go ahead Sue just needed to unmute um we send the borrowing that was um Snell Creek we funded that through a Grant so we do not need to borrow great thank you um Gary you've got your hand up go ahead just this quick question to Jim on the uh the septic systems for the fail septic systems in the past was was that article or was the intention to do any septic system and if we change that just to nitrogen septic systems is that something new so the wording before was specific for nitrogen septic system so they're removing that um additional requirement to allow people to that just just need upgrades on the septic systems and nitrogen is not required it would allow them to use that money for that as well and making it less restrictive okay thanks great thank you that that article the septic that was originally a grant given to the town for lowincome people who needed to repair septic systems and it was a revolving the funds were to be put back in paid back in and so forth um my understanding is they wanted I'm trying to think what happened exactly but it was also still they put it dite um I think they had kind of forgotten that the funds were there so they kind of activated it again but they wanted it only dite systems but my understanding is it is still supposed to be lowincome uh funded for people who need it either way Sue that um we record that at the lean at the registry correct correct okay that's as long as the town is uh protected against that that's good so that's I just want clarify this is all we're talking about article 22 correct right right 21 and 22 oh it's 21 and 22 so they're both connected okay yeah ah thank you thank you for that okay I was thinking it we were talking about 21 and then I saw the 22 okay thank you um I think we can move on to the next one I I think um Cindy I think probably on our list it's ar4 yeah 2 24 and 25 seem to be connected in a sense so yes so let's who's gonna correct me if I'm wrong but um the 93,000 in the 9,000 in article 24 were appropriated and set aside to the capital stabilization fund at last year's town meeting but the do had some questions about it because it was originally set aside for the 93 was for the Middle School of remediation of the pcbs and the 9,000 was leftover money from the police station so they want those two funding those two dollar amounts of 93 and the 9,000 to be specific to building construction so they're coming out of the capitalization stabilization fund and then the next articles um puts them back specific to those uses they can only be used for buildings we can't buy any equipment with them does this require a two-thirds voted town meeting it's a good question I believe it does but I'll confirm that um there's been some recent changes in the stabilization accounts but I don't think it impacts this one right some are just majority right now some of them I know the special educ yes couple of are right do we have to um Karen I got a question on this do we have to do we have to when we resend this and then put it back can are we allowed to put it back to another Capital uh uh expense or does it have to go to free cash and then the source of funds is free cash the these are actually going into articles so it's coming out of the stabilization and it's going into an article so we would be able to expend that those funds on a building Improvement as long as it met the requirements of the article okay so it's not going it's not going for one Capital account to another Capital account that's correct okay great well that does explain it so that five minutes was very helpful thank you Jim the uh next one is article 26 similar so 26 was the second piece to that right so that was the 000 right right so article 24 was breaking it out into 25 and 26 correct uh the next one we had a question on um was Article 28 regarding the the size of the lot and the tax impact oh you know what Cindy some of the numbers have been renumbered so got well no I I have 28 it's the size of the Lot 27 is kind of straightforward I think we knew no the the new the final the current warrant BR under the Articles so in the new warrant oh I have I have the eighth draft I have draft number eight isn't that the most recent I do too but Article 28 in that is the cherion web it's the 15,000 for Beach Enterprise oh is that the one you're on yes okay I'm sorry yeah it's purchasing it's it's um it's purchasing land from Beach Enterprise we wanted to know what type of piece of property was that was our question great thank you sorry right so so it's a relatively small piece it's probably about half or three quarters underwater um looked at I on the square footage exactly but it's right where um residents of Westport sit when they go to the Cherry and web Beach there's probably three or four privately owned Pils that are half underwater and maybe half on the beach um kind of landlocked they do show some paper roads going to them but there is no access I believe the beach committee has talked to the owner the owner is willing to sell it and uh they wanted I think somewhere around the range of $10,000 for the parcel and the remaining funds would be used for legal course recording fees title search if needed go ahead Hugh you're on mute you're muted Hugh sorry I saying I believe this comes out of the beach funds and appropriation from other funds so it's basically we got the money already it's just a matter of repurposing it uh next uh next article was number 29 um this is the fence um issue uh 49,000 um from Beach Enterprise but we wanted to know some additional detail about the fence is Jim you have any additional information on that just uh they're looking for I think it was 25,000 roughly for the fence and the remainder for a vehicle for the beach this would be to replace the fence in between I guess on the east side of the laneway that goes down to Cher and web it's very poor condition um you know I think that people there on the east side have been relatively good neighbors over the years and there wasn't an official agreement but there was a a letter dating back I think to the 70s where the town had agreed to put up and maintain offence okay the next one is uh article 31 um and this is also regarding um some land um these are two land conservation right these are two landlock Pils that are currently owned by the town and they're north of the um St Vincent's property that's currently owned by the land trust um a lot of wetlands on both one has a significant amount of wetlands like I said they landlock I don't see a lot of I don't see any development potential um in the future future but you never know just too far off of Adamsville Road and this uh conservation land on on the south side of it so the likelihood that they'd be developed is is minimal and best um Town currently owns them by transferring them to the Conservation Commission it puts them under article 97 and kind of puts a restriction on ourselves essentially so that it it remains as open space and Recreation and the land trust has agreed to work with the Conservation Commission to extend the trails and Inter link some of their other properties in that area that's really a de facto con convenience to the land trust in a sense which is fine thank you uh I'll skip over 33 at the time when we last when we last met we did not have this language so I think that's planning board issue um information about bylaws um so the next one I have is 40 because we did not have any of this language to discuss on um the new bylaws so we're going to skip all the way to 40 so let me just catch up here because there's a lot of stuff here in this yeah um 357 a minute a lot of pages to get there lot of P boy a lot of pages no kidding I keep going I keep going I know so I think 40 is the alcohol license request right oh right right right right okay yes so this um yeah Jim you had explained this to me go ahead yes so we we have a a limit on the number of uh I guess package St all alcohol licenses that we can issue here in town the owner of 634 has filed a petition requesting that actually he filed a request the board of selectman put this on the town meeting War to request special legislation to get an additional license for an all alcoholic beverage license for 634 American meion Highway this would result in a nominal increase in whatever the cost of the licensees to the town whatever Revenue the town gets from an additional license correct yeah which is I want to say probably $1,200 somewhere in that range great thank you oh Al uh Al go ahead you've got your yeah just just just a quick a I have no skin in this game but the the address uh to to put in perspective is the Mobile gas station and you know on on Route 177 it is right next door to Harry's that has been operating a successful business I well I don't know whether they're successful but has been operating a clean uh business for what 20 25 years 30 years something like that and so this is this would uh would in fact impact um somebody that's been paying taxes and operating 14 hours a day um uh taking nothing away from uh the gas station but if you're a gas station and a convenience store that's your business and so I just want to say that it's a questionable call I I'm not calling it one way or the other but it's questionable Al I'd add to I think you you twep my memory this came up a couple of years ago the same arguments was voted down by the town so this is another attempt another bite at the Apple right so I don't think we should be in favor of for the reason you in indicate it's already been decided once by the town yeah yeah correct you that's my point I think that um I don't know if it was last town meeting or the town meeting before that I think the town voted no to give them the additional capacity to sell liquor back that's right I agree yeah this one actually feels really not Financial in nature and this wouldn't be one that we' make a recommendation in either case to yeah I think you're right I think you're right I think you're right about that Karen it's not Financial in nature right all right the next one is article uh 41 this is regarding some parcels of land that FL trippin Sons um would like to donate to the town uh and surprisingly it is nowhere near the water really this is a piece of land that was divided into two when Route 88 was put in back in the late 50s um piece of this land and I we went over the acreage earlier but um decent size and buts the the transfer station to town landfill to the north so you know in that sense I think there's value and um accepting that possible of land it's always good to acquire land around I think any transfer stational landfill even to cut back on liability in the future but so that's one and the other one is on the other side of the highway it's a triangular piece doesn't really doesn't have a lot of benefit to anybody but um you know if you're going to accept one you might as well accept both and uh you know it's probably one that stop paying taxes and eventually end up with going ta Revenue but I expect that's nominal to begin with yeah I think we checked it was a couple hundred dollars if it was even that much great thank you um okay the next one that was is uh 41 the next one is uh 42 this is by petition so this is yeah R Lane R Lane Extension um this was a subdivision that was approved by the planning board the road was constructed they're now requesting that it be accepted it's off of white oak run it's off of white oak run right so it's it goes White Oak Run and then off of White Oak Run is Raye which has been accepted and then this extends Ray um and this would be the pot that they're requesting acceptance question is is it up to spec and everything no burden on the town other than the usual that's my understanding with the exception that um I think the planning board is recommending against accepting it because White Oak Lane is not accepted by the town which is interesting White Oak Lane is not accepted R Lane is accepted that comes off of White Oak Lane and then this piece is an extension of R Lane I'd also say plan may not be officially accepted but it's been maintained paved over the years by the town and this goes way back I know it's been paid for it was gravel at one point but uh it's been paid for a number of years so whether it's officially accepted or not um you know that's good question I don't know it's a difficult precedent um okay 40 uh 43 is the next one this is the special education um fund yeah so this would set up a stabilization fund uh for special education um and the difference with this fund from other stabilization funds is it's designed so that if um school department or school um takes in special education students midy year and didn't have the funding for that if they get appr from the board of Selectmen and approval from the school committee they could draw down on this fund M year without going to town meeting town meeting would have to appropriate the funds into the stabilization account but as it's worded right now um school committee and Border select would have the authority to release funds mid year to offset some of those costs but where would the initial funding come from so yeah what's proposed here is in the following article um last year the school Department requested I think $85,000 to upgrade the elementary school Master Clock paging system and instead of doing hard wirring they did um wireless wireless they did Wireless and uh they were able to do it and save about $55,000 so the thought would be to put that $555,000 into the stabilization account which otherwise would have fallen into free cash would have to be reappropriated and could go into free cash yes can we before we keep going on the feature articles I wanted to go back to the stabilization fund itself so as Jim as Jim mentioned an article would have to put funds into the spe special education fund at town meeting in an article just as as any any other stabilization but as Jim mentioned to REM to take money out it is it is the select board and the school committee only so the other stabilization funds require town meeting at a two-thirds vote to to take money out of the account my suggestion has been is there any way and the state law allows the select board and the school committee to do that my suggestion has been that I think there needs a little more oversight to that and my suggestion is if there's a way that we can write into the bylaws that it also requires a finance committee um approval as well so so I had sent all the Articles to Town Council for review that's one of the questions we have I don't have an answer for that okay great thank you so that really Jim one second Sindy so if they did get back that it was possible would we have to do that in a motion on tone floor to add that is that how yeah the select board could I guess the article prior the posting um or an amendment at town meeting oh okay oh so select board could amend the article okay okay um Zach just mentioned Duncan you've got some feedback on your mic if you could mute thank you thanks I was trying to do it discreetly Karen no it's okay that's all right it's helpful um all right so um that was really um it we covered 44 that was the um well can I just I did want to now talk about 44 because we kind of did um we kind of were Blended the two together so um just as Hugh had mentioned so that 55,000 would have otherwise gone to free cash um the other alternative is it doesn't go into the special education fund it could go into a capital stabilization fund so it's really taking Capital that wasn't used and putting it back to Capital um what what what why did we choose this this special education stabilization fund to try to give it some or dollars to get some dollars in there yeah I think the thought was that if we're going to create the fund we need to put some money in there and this was just one source of funding that was originally going to the schools out be for a St for a capital project that still um was intended for the schools and um may be a good place to put it okay Gary go ahead yeah you know this is only an opinion uh my personal opinion on this you know boards change committees change um and then make me a likelihood down the road that they may not want to use that that money for for the purpose I think Town meetings should be the ones that decide that you know town meeting on like like two-thirds vote on regular stabilization should also be the ones who determine how the money is spent you know I I don't think that two boards although they may want to recommend it and they may want to support it are the ones that decide whether or not that money spent you know well it can only be used for special education purposes it can only be used for tuition and transportation can't be us for anything else but boards and committees change so my point is they may not want to do it or one year they may even though the intention is for that they may not want to do that um you know it's just a point yeah I agree I think just H having some more level of oversight in whether um you know I know there's there's a lot of times there's going to be a sense of urgency where the school may need these funds rather quickly so to go to a town meeting might not be an easy thing to do but it it could be expedited if it was the school committee the select board and the finance committee at least there's a there is an that's why I'm suggesting the finance committee because there's a level of oversight there um rather than the going to a special town meeting to to get the funds but I you know hey Jim going going back to though what you were saying earlier about how um if you're taking something out of a um out of an article that had a specific purpose that you couldn't use it you know you had to use it for a capital purpose you know so this article the original Elementary Master Clock paging system was a was a capital uh expense for you know there was a capitalizable expense for the school and in this case we're taking it out of that and putting it into something that would be a a regular expense item versus Capital expense so you had mentioned earlier that you know you couldn't do one versus the other it had to be of a similar nature is there an exception on this so so my understanding is the previous two was borrowed money um so that was authorized and and that has is being treated differently in the past um we've taken warn articles uh for numerous reasons and then following you know in subsequent stwn meetings we've repurposed the remaining funds in those waren articles for other uses that makes sense because we've Capital we've capitalized the expense of the borrowing so you can't now diminish that right okay all right that that kind of makes sense I I got you okay great um thank you for for that Jim um I have a couple of quick questions circling back uh back to article four which is the budget um is there anything that you're still waiting on that we need to wait for do you do you are you comfortable with the diamond assessments and health insurance and everything that we're waiting on is there anything else yeah we're still waiting on the state aid right but we won't you know right now we're working off the governor's budget I think pretty close um I think we have all we we're going to have I don't have Bristol agie yet I'm still waiting on that did they give you any sense of when that might come no and they they're not consistent yet a year um I did follow up a couple of weeks ago I will follow up again to see if we can get those numbers did and is there any indication when the next round of the the state aid would come did they don't release any dates do they um I would expect the uh house budget to come out fairly soon um we usually get that you know probably around the end of March and we usually get the um I think the Senate's budget you know right around town meeting and then the final budget in June okay you know I think I think I think our numbers are pretty close I think the big numbers that um we were concerned about you know like the chapter 70 uh the school choice um the chter schools that that have changed a bit this year are formula based for the most parts so those uh shouldn't change much the unrestricted local Aid uh government Aid that can change a little bit but you know I think we we budgeted or we we're fairly conservative in our estimates not real conservative but pretty comfortable where we are yeah okay Karen um what are we budgeting for the mar are we putting anything in the budget Jim have you used any nothing um we get uh 3% our Pilots I have not put in is uh does not look like we're going to be able to collect those yeah um but the 3% I believe is in there yeah I know there's some I think I think they're barking at um the whole issue of it being non being unconstitutional that it's being T blah blah blah so um you're not you're only putting the tax in basically that's it yeah yeah okay good great so Jim one um we don't need to approve the budget tonight but we I think our committee can kind of get it in a semiformal standpoint and then we can just wait to see if anything comes through so the other question that I had on article four was related to the water and sewer if we were if we needed a debt payment in the in article four or not do you you have any sense of that so so Su did a nice job looking this up and um we can get around that so it does not impact the budget okay you know in just timing wise if everything went perfect and we awarded the contract in June and July by the time they mobilize and get going you're looking at this fall then winter comes so not a lot of work gets done so you know I don't see a significant amount of work being done until next spring when it starts up and uh so there should not be uh a big expenditure you know we have pump stations that take time to order and come in so okay yeah but Sue did check into that she she wrote me an email today and I can forward that to you get a little bit more detail all right well if you're comfortable that we're we we're covered on our budget then that's that's good for me on this that end on that that conversation so thank you Karen so a question on that just a question on that maybe for clarification um that wouldn't that wouldn't impact the general fund budget anyways that that would impact some Enterprise fund budget it would we don't have an Enterprise fund for that yet so how how would water and my I again my question is how would water and sewer infrastructure impact a general fund budget the B right the debt exclusion would be we separate right and then well I'm G to let Su explain rather than me making yeah eror right and before Su explains right so to so the the way that it was presented to us the $35 million is separated into 20 month 29 million which would be debt exclusion and six million would be non-excluded debt which would be the betterment piece and so I was referring to the $6 million piece piece not the dead exclusion piece but go ahead you can take it away Su so okay assuming that we want to get going on this everything's approved at the ballot town meeting and so forth and we borrow say in July normally we would have a debt at least an interest payment due in January but they could structure the loan so that the first payment would be due a year from July but it would inflate the amount due in fiscal 26 because it would be July 20 of 25 fiscal 26 would have an inflated amount that year because it would be the full year of interest that would be due in July of the following July if we borrow in this July we'd have a full year of Interest due in next fiscal year um yeah oh so yeah I I I so this is Gary I understand the funding schedule my question is how does the general fund support an Enterprise fund Endeavor this would be excluded debt we would have to vote at excluded debt for a portion of this the betterment portion would have to go is the only other portion and the I guess I'm just a little confused um we so I mean let's I guess let's start at the beginning do we have Enterprise funds set up in the in the town for water and SE we don't have sewer we have water correct correct correct so those would be the funds that support this program on a user base um whatever percentage that is a user base fee how do we take on debt if in fact it is for it is for a Enterprise fund on the general fund side I guess that's the that's what I'm a little confused on unless it's not General unless it's not Enterprise fund debt is it general fund debt it is general fund debt so they're asking the town to pay for this sewer and water line on Route Six to and but the supporting once it's and running my understanding is once it's up and running the maintenance and everything would be supported through the enter Enterprise fund okay that's where I have an issue I think that I and I think we may probably we should check on this before we go forward this is all part of water and sewer in infrastructure so you know we're we're trying to put the line down Route Six and whatever we're going to whatever going to do how do we have the residents who are going to benefit from that water line pay for it pay residents who are not benefit benefiting from that pay for that pay for that endeavor from my understanding is the water and sewer enterpris is from day one once you once you implement Water and Sewer you have to have the water sewer Enterprise set up which we which we have half of it then any borrowing and subsequent borrowing to to to build that infrastructure comes from sewer rates Water and Sewer rates um with an initial borrowing but that gets paid through the rate it doesn't get paid through the general fund so I gu I'm a little confused so my understanding is that the the betterments there's a fixed number right of 20% of the actual cost of the sewer project um so that could be five million it could be six and a half million the better also ask about because is the betterment paid during before constru ruction or not until after the pipe is in and connected to the house I think it's voluntary to connect but but the bment May or not be voluntary how does that work and that's really what we're talking about if that were paid right along with it then there wouldn't be a burden on the general fund the betterment would pay for the betterment portion but it sounds like there's a lag between the investment in constructing the water line and actually getting the betterment payments or maybe I'm just wrong from what I read it it did say that the betterments would be due once the service was available right so go ahead so as far as the betterments go is going to go down Route Six all the properties Froning along Route Six will be assessed the vment that actual betterment will not be finalized until the project is completed and all the costs associated with that sewer have been calculated including all the borrowing and interest for that betterment portion so that'll all be included in the betterment so if we borrow six million and there's a million and a half of Interest over the 20 years that is included in the total betterment people are not required to tie into the sewer um but they will be required to um pay the b in but there will be a lag I assume and during the construction phase the general borrowing takes place to be able to pay the bills of construction and the betterment will pick up its portion of the overall cost but not until construction is completed so what happens in the meantime in terms of Debt Service I hate to put Sue on the spot but I'm going to defer to sue on this one okay two things the betterman is not p the entire cost of the line what the infrastructure committee wants to do is have the betterment which is will only pay approximately 20% of the cost of putting the line in and those are build you you're build the betterment simply for having the line go past your property you don't whether you connect or not you still build the betterment and that would be at the end and they have 20 years in which they can pay the betterment over 20 years the rest of the cost the infrastructure committee was looking at the general fund or the general population of Westport to pay for the rest of it well you say General thought and really I think we're talking at this point about the debt exclusion which will pay for everything until the benit charges in place when that be contributed to the operation so in that sense I don't think it's may be wrong but I don't think it comes out of the general fund it comes out of the financing for the debt exclusion right the betterment would be a separate borrowing the portion that's a betterment would be a separate borrowing so that we can track it separately and so forth and again that will be a separate accounting of the funds as they come back in to pay P it so that those funds we have existing betterments um they're actually technically special assessments for septic now that we use uh clean water Trust Loans for so we borrow those funds and then the as the people are paying those back that that's where the source of funding is to pay back those septic betterment loans that we have now or special assessments so the question the question that I have as well is the $6 million loan that will the will eventually collect the betterments that will be used to repay the loan but there's going to be a three-year period where construction of the water sewer line is being done before assessments can be made so there's going to be a three-year period that the town has to pay the debt service so the town is going to have to be making payments where there's no funds in the Enterprise account because there's no water fees or there's nothing that it's it's it's not earn it's there's nothing coming into the Enterprise fund yet so how does the three-year period for the $6 million betterment loan get paid how does it not affect the general fund during that three-year period the the 29 million the infrastructure committee is not asking that that's they're just asking that the people who are utilizing it and the people who better better get the betterment pay for that they're asking that the entire town pay for that so therefore it's going to be excluded debt and that is actually what we would borrow first we would stop say for instance the first borrowing might be 10 million to get the project up and R running and then like a year later we may borrow another 10 million the last six million is probably would be for the betterments and at that point we would be able to start rolling out the billing for the betterments at that time so I think you're saying is all it's all excluded debt so that doesn't come out of the operating fund right that's right million I thought the Six Million is non-excluded debt all of it's not has to be voted non-excluded it would if any of this is it's going to be voted non-excluded the betterment portion is actually outside of debt those things it doesn't come from the general fund it doesn't come it's not added onto the tax base afterwards the repayment of that comes from the re the payments for the banabits the repayment when the people stop paying in the I guess I'm confused because how can you raise an appropriate excluded debt to use are you saying to use that cash to pay for the loan but it's not you can't raise an appropriate excluded debt because you haven't taken that debt out because you don't have the expense yet right no we're not no what I'm saying is the Six Million is a separate loan it's what they call outside of debt service because it's not included in the tax dollars at all it's the money to pay that back the existing clean water trust loans the debt Services funded either excluded which is added on to the tax rate afterwards included debt which is part of the tax rate or part of the general fund and the Clean Water trust are outside of debt which are paid for from these funds that for the debts when we collect it in the uh collector's office the money from there goes into a fund and that's what's used to pay back the Clean Water Trust Loans right but if you so sue if you if the Six Million the M the money you need to collect to pay that debt you won't have collected yet no but I that would be like at the tail end that we would borrow it and we can bill it St billing it out now what happens is generally there's they have 30 days they'll get build their betterment um a notice will go out saying this is your betterment amount $10,000 for example people can pay it then and pay it in full the $10,000 whatever the amount comes out to for their betterment and pay it up front you'll get Theo indicated in mapo that they had closer to about 50% of the people did that and then the other 50% will pay over time and the ones that are paying over time we can also charge interest to they can have up to 20 years to pay off that debt um and it's build through the tax bills right but then doesn't I I thought you cannot build the betterment until the until the project is complete so that the is there that's three years down the road but that's when as the Project's getting closer to completion we we we could borrow that money to fund the final completion and Bill it at that same time so it's going to be about a year we wouldn't need to make because it would probably be a ban at first so we'll borrow the money and then be able to build within that year and if you have 50% of the people pay in we can pay down with the money that's paid in they only have 30 days so if we bill it out sometime within that year they have 30 days in which to decide if they want to pay it off and we'll have some funds that will come in to make that payment and rest we will rebor yeah you know this is hard for us to understand can you imagine the the residents trying to wrap their hands around this I mean let's let let's face it you know we're every I think everybody in this committee is wants clean water there's no doubt about that we want we want to have uh the infrastructure in place that we can have and draw business but we we live in between two communities that have the Walmarts the McDonald's the Burger Kings and so on and so forth and and maybe there's industry out there that wants to move to town and and and have that but I think that we're putting the we should the least set up an Enterprise fund first okay and and then move forward with it I think this is like a pig and a poke because we're banking on residents that are going to a connect B want to be on the service but yet have all this outstanding debt and here's the other thing you know again I go back to my original statement we're looking at putting an infrastructure in and having it become general fund obligation and I don't think that that's for you know fair and Equitable to people that don't have are not benefiting from this system you know and B that don't even really understand it you know so you know I'm gonna I'll tell you right now I'm gonna vote no on this when it comes up because I think that there needs to be more research look we sit here and we argue about cutting the schools uh 800,000 and then nickel and diamond the the IT department you know but yet we're ready to spend $35 million right on on a sewer line or a water line from Far River I mean I don't know I just I the more and more I hear about it the more and more I I questions I have and if we have questions can you imagine what the general public yep go ahead Al oh I have so much to say I I I I don't think we have enough time this the way that this project in in my opinion has been proposed over a number of years is so wrong in so many levels that I can't my my head is exploding the infrastructure committee has been in existence for 20 years they brought to us a and and the community a proposal big fancy proposal PowerPoint engineers and all and all on January 24th starting to propose a three- tier uh system you know or or structure of a trunk that went down Route Six within an hour and a half after 20 years of of them debating it have have t all of a sudden flipped it's almost like Forest Gump you know I mean it just like oh and then something happened and the next thing you know we initially a number was thrown out at $31 million oh no listen throw it to $35 million and that's what's what's on the ballot right now they don't have a number they don't have a number after 20 years there is no number they can't tell the um the residents in the area what is um you know they're throwing around $10,000 you know a a what is it an etu is that what they call it or I don't want to call it UTI but you knowed Ed edu thank you Cindy and but they don't really know the number and in fact there's been word floating around that they don't know the number and it may be that the 2080 split that they're talking about right now may be a 1090 split if the number gets too high they don't know what what what the numbers are but what what what what we're being fed is is is absolutely you know a a a project with no solid figures whatsoever and you know estimates guesstimates oh gee I think it'll be this that and the other and how can we how can we as a finance committee vote to support this kind of fiscal and I'll call it this is my words not your words irresponsibility it's irresponsible after all these years not to and then I and unfortunately I have too much time on my hand so I have watched the video of the infrastructure committee two or three times and at minute 59 uh the the um uh engineer Roger I think his name is it could be yeah Roger blurted out kind of probably he didn't want to do it that money may be diverted from this to do the loop around the Mamer school now that's what was said now whether he meant it whether that but then the committee and this is what really drives me crazy the committee talks about the trunk line down Route Six but the warrant issue never says anything about a trunk line down Route 6 it is completely IR irrelevant to it it it it just not so it it allows a blank card blank check to go anywhere maybe that's the intention and one of the members said the other day in in the meeting well we're not going to exceed this amount of money but if you look at the Warren article it doesn't say to exceed the article and in fact after the $35 million which was kind of like throwing ve Velcro on on the ceiling it said and other ancillary and incidental expenses at as necessary so I'm I'm I'm just GNA be quiet right now but this is it so wrong in so many ways it is the the warrant issue should not be voted on and I will not support it as written I'm all for I'm all for clean water I'm all for the concept of the project but the way in which it is written and it is to be instituted I I just I just cannot support it so I'll leave it I didn't I didn't think we were talking about the water and sewer project I know but we kind of morphed into that Cindy I'm sorry can we go back to article four please good point yes yeah no we we can certainly like to make a couple comments on that we're on 14 so let's let's keep keep talking so go ahead that's okay so so a couple of things right and I'm not speaking for the infrastructure committee and this is a project that we're really focusing on the first phase for a while and that changed relatively quickly so so we readjusted right um we had our engineer when they talk about estimates changing we had a um I so say a final estimate because that's all it is an estimate for the first phase when we went to the full phase we went back to the engineer and came up with a new estimate right and that's $ 34,9 4,12 includes a 10% contingency for construction a 12% contingency not contingency but 12% for construction oversite and engineering and includes um cost for police details which comes out to about $569,000 estimated so we have a very good estimate now and in a lot of these estimates you do not you know as the project progresses right the estimates get better and that goes with any project um they've gone out for bid so by town meeting vote you will have an actual bid you will actually have a inhand not estimate but contract bid of what the project is going to cost um as far as the edus go the committee was trying to keep the betterments at around $10,000 or under per single family house we cannot do do that specifically as the way the the um betterments are set up by law so you do it as a percentage of the total cost so the committee and the select board in the warrant article have put in 20% of total cost of the sewer for the route six trunk line will be paid by betterment and we estimate based on our current estimates that to be somewhere around $8,000 um but it could go up to 9,000 depending on where the bids come in because it's actual construction costs but this is what communities do right this is what you guys are getting extremely deep into the weeds and I think it's great but most people don't get into these details and um it's a good way to get this information out there and it's a good way to keep us on our toes but this is what we do for these projects right as the estimates come in we fine-tune them uh we go out to bid we construct the project and then based on the actual construction cost we assess the betterments um the town is authorizing or requesting authorization to borrow $35 million um all construction costs will not come out of all borrowing costs or interest costs will not come out of the operating funds those are going to be funded through borrowing um period you know and how that exactly Works was I'm still trying to understand but talking to other communities it works and this is what they do so it does not come out of the operating budget the trunk line is the trunk line when we sent the warn out the Town Council to be reviewed Town Council suggested that we include area after Route Six partly because we have four pump stations being constructed that aren't in Route Six they were on a budding properties we're also going to extend stubs into the um AB budding streets so the question is is that part of rout 6 or do that you know a piece of that going to Washington Street or you know bman street so he felt more comfortable saying area at the selectman's meeting it seemed to expand a little bit more to Greater Root 6 area um that is how the ballot question is worded it says greater root six area um and I and I I don't want to say gives flexibility but it opens it up a little bit more to than roote six but the limited borrowing is 35 million the warrant article says roote 6 area in the form of a motion they can restrict that further just to make it clear that it's only root six as far as the loop whether we set it properly or not not if the grant funding comes in for the waterline Loop there's about 610 of a mile of waterline extension in Route Six that is included as part of that Grant so that 610 whatever comes out to a million dollars a million and a half would be reduced from the overall cost of the route six project because we would pay for that out of the grant so when I when I said diverted I think he maybe Mis misspoke or misrepresented but we're not diverting funds we would reduce funds if we could have another funding source such as a grant um I think that's it Karen you're muted thank you so Jim then that would mean that the loop is then included in the 35 million so a portion of the loop is included in the 45 million um 35 million now 45 35 million y do you if I can share my screen here real quick so that's you know that's the first time I'm actually hearing that right because we've been asking and asking what is the 35 million and we've been told it's the trunk line only and the you know the map that's been presented to us was the trunk line only and that's correct the 35 million is the trunk line only as far as as I'm concerned it's the trunk line only but it's also the loop no no no as a separate project but if it's in the 35 million that's part of it so we we applied for a grant separate from the 35 million just for waterline improvements and right this blue line here the water line ends right here next to the Housing Authority property um with this grant funds we would extend the water line down Route Six through approximately Washington Street there's a property here that has a public water supply with past contamination there's another public water supply over here that um has some high levels I don't think it's past but something else the macumber school has high levels of Manganese so we would extend it this blue line down Route Six and we would ex construct this Loop um down gfed road to the maumba school and then down Osborne Street back to Route Six so Madam chair I I I I'm going to be jerk here and just interject your question so what if you don't Jim what if you don't get the uh the funding is that still part of the project if we don't get funding if this grant does not come through this section of waterline is included in the $ 35 million for root so that so that's the bogey right there is it is that regardless of whether we get the funding or not it is included in the F $35 million which detracts four or five or six million whatever the number is from the $35 million project so if we get the Grant and we construct this and this may very well get constructed before the rest of it does um there would be a savings on the root six project of one2 million but what what what if it doesn't I think you know one of one of the things about the finance committee or or a business person is that you you need to look at the worst case scenario and and hope for the best but what I hear from from the the infrastructure committee and what you just said and you know how how much I respect you so I'm not I'm not trying to beat you up is that well we get you know grants and we can apply for this and we can apply for that but what if we don't get any Westport has not been historically a a a community that gets a hell of a lot of Grants or low interest interest loans uh you know especially related to this so if we if we if the town's people vote for you know this at the ballot and or at at the at the warrant and and and this stuff doesn't come through a warrant is a contract a warrant is an obligation we are still on the hook for it so this may I'm not explaining this very well right so the $35 million includes all the water and all the sewer in Route Six including including the loop not the loop just Route Six right so if we do the loop then at the other end at the Dartmouth line if we only spend the 35 mil that money is going to have to be push back and we we're not going to be able to complete the loop to to Dartmouth unless we go back to the towns people for another debt exclusion is is is am I missing that's correct no I think you got it if we do not get the grant the Loof does not get constructed this section of Route Six would get constructed under the 35 million if we do not get the grant this does not get constructed okay this is this is kind of a separate project as far as I'm concerned well yeah and and it kind of just popped up um you know recently you know as I said earlier and I I don't want to belabor the point that that I've been looking at all the different uh things and that just popped up in in mid mid to late January that all of a sudden you know th this this Loop comes comes available and we we went from the three separate projects to 35 million but it was 31 million and then it's this and then it's that and it's back and forth I mean it it's it's like whacka it's Financial whack-a-mole it may seem like that but it is it is fairly structured and and organized Jim maybe you can just clarify to I'm still confused to be quite honest so regardless of the funding source what is the cost of the loop the water loop so this water loop plus this section of Root 6 is estimated at around $4 million I think it was $3.8 Million okay we'll say four million and what's the grant that you're hoping to get four million you're hoping to get for four million okay okay and that would be a good thing right if we get $4 million yeah positive thing my questions are not judgment should we do the loop does it make sense to do the loop does is there value to it it's trying to understand what's part of the 35 million what's being disclosed it's very very confusing it it has to be confusing for the homeowners who are listening to whatever meetings they're listening to and have to make a decision to go out to the ballot in two weeks to determine what to do when and you yourself are saying that the bids are going to be in for town meeting but the bids won't be in for the ballot so people are going to the ballot and don't really have a clear picture is it the loop is it not the loop what it it's just very confusing and I'm trying to sort it out because I want to support this I want to support it but I'm having a really difficult time quite honestly saying these numbers are staggering to say the least I mean you're right and listen this is nothing Jim you did a you do a great job you're you're pretty much the the messenger here you know we understand that and the presentations that you've given us throughout the fiscal year is phenomenal that we're not not saying that but I think as a resident looking in we're all residents what how we see these numbers of 5 million 6 million 35 million I mean right there just without even understanding it it's probably a no vote because in their minds they're gonna say oh my God you know I gotta I gotta spend this kind of money on a on on a bment I don't even know what a betterman is so I think we're we're jumping ahead we're trying to understand the financing of this um I think we've jumped a little bit too fast in this in this whole project I I get that we need to probably had it done 10 years ago but what's the risk of waiting a little bit longer I mean are we under some kind of order that we need to get this done right now do we have to I mean is there some kind of mandate or the the information would be just as confusing three months from now six months from now 12 months from now when have we ever passed a Deb exclusion like this on the first ballot of course it's probably going to get voted down people don't understand it it it's the first step in the process I would hate to say well you know no people don't understand it let them at least know that be aware that this is an issue maybe we'll give people some incentive to to try to understand it more and have more of these meetings I personally I don't think it will will will succeed at the ballot I I wish that it would but I don't think that it will fine we'll try again and we'll try again but to say let's put it off you're going to have just as confusing information six months from now nine months from now 12 months from now the numbers will not be concrete then because we don't know how do how can we plan for what the amount will be they said up to 35 million well if you back out the four million now you've got a little bit of a cushion maybe you don't have a cushion maybe prices will go up I don't know I mentioned this to Karen the other day other than TV sets what what item has ever gone down in price in three years three years from now this is going to cost $50 million so so Jim so Jim is there is there a is there a mandate that we have to meet here or that's my question there is no mandate okay thanks I well let me say there is no mandate but the public water supplies along Route Six are being forced to either put in1 $150,000 um past filtration system or tie into public water not all of them there's only a couple that are exceed the EPA levels um but um you know you got this is this is what's happening right and and it's you know I think we can all agree that Wells are not going to improve as new chemicals and new materials introduced into this Society it's eventually going to get into the into the water table into our water supplies and unless it's traded you're going to have issues um but you know there is no specific mandate if if this is done this year it's still going to take two or three years to construct right so it's it's not like they're going to have sewer and water you know later this summer um I just want to make one comment and then Hugh you're next so as far as I understand the school the new school that was produced that was built was the largest project that the town's ever had right at that that amount right is this the second largest project that the town has ever faced it's I think it is I would think so yes so this is not insubstantial to to have something come up and kind of roll it through without a lot of understanding from the town to understand the impact of this but absolutely it's the second largest project ever some of these decisions are going to be made you know by the first of second week of April after the election you know um voting on the warant articles May will probably change after the April election depending on what happens right right yeah and I don't buy into the notion you know that we just keep trying and keep trying and keep trying let's get it right the first time let's go to let's go to the ballot with good information let's let's get let's get that our ducks in a row so that we don't have to keep on going back to the ballot for for for approval or back to town meeting for approval let's get it right the first time so so I just got the information is good and I don't know how I can get that out there but the information we have is good whether or not the information is getting out there properly um to everybody's satisfaction I think is you know a good question but the information we have is good it's done by the Professional Engineers that we've hired we've had Bond counsel review things we've had Town Council review things this is the way it's done um is it is it being done very quickly I I I think so um but the information is good great thanks Jim there number of questions that are um go ahead h i just gonna say I don't think we're g to resolve that tonight is there anything else we should be dealing with um thank you for that comment Hugh um I think uh we have a you know initially I think the request was to invite the infrastructure committee back in to kind of talk through some of these things and that may still be warranted but um I'm gonna just entertain the rest of the questions that are here uh go ahead Sue um Jim the water loop that you're talking about is there a separate article on Tomy on the warrant for that it does not require a town article it be funded completely with Grant funds okay all right and so and but if we do get those Grant funds that Loop will go in because that's just water it is not sewer correct that's correct no betterments no operating expenses correct okay thank you thank you go ahead Al and then Michelle Al you're on mute Al you're on still on mute still un mute there you go not anymore and boy Mo most people would like me to be on mute excuse me so I know that we've shifted from Article 4 to Article 15 and and and that's dominated so so I will I know it's it's like pingpong and and and I'll make it very brief the way the article on the on the town warrant is written it does everybody is talking about the trunk line but the article is does not specify the trunk line it says greater you know Route Six area and that and that bothers me because that leaves one hell of a lot of flexibility and maybe that is the intention of everybody and I'm not I'm not diminishing that so why not just put it on there why not just say this is a trunk line from point A to point B period and a paragraph why why does it have to be and you know what just because a lawyer says it doesn't mean it's accurate I mean I don't want to get into into into the lawyer thing but but the attorney general has something to say about that though well you know what there that's a lawyer too the fact is that what we have been talking about and what we and and what the committee has been selling to the people of the Town who are are spending potentially $35 million is a trunk line down Route Six but that's not what it says that's not what the article says that is not what a a governing body needs to do ultimately for this so I think we I I think we need to you know really just take a a half a step back and and forget the lawyers and forget the AG and all the other stuff and let's start talking about common sense because that is ultimately the the taxpayers of the the entire town not just the people in the service area but the entire town are going to have to pay for for 20 maybe 30 years we don't know so that's that's that's thanks Al go ahead Michelle thank you for your patience no problem and again I don't want to take more time than everybody has taken I don't want to be to dead dead horse but so I listened to the meeting last week because I wasn't on it and I went to the neighborhood association meeting on Saturday so I heard a little bit more more about this and I think it it and I want to say thank you because I thought it was me not understanding everything so I was happy to hear that as as a newbie I thought it was me but I was happy to hear that some of the rest of you didn't understand it either um so if I'm feeling that way that's how the people of westput are going to feel that that were expected to vote on it and what I was thinking about is the people that have been working on this project and I commend them I can only imagine the amount of time that it's taken to get to this point but they've been working on it for a long time and they understand it and it has I I Feel Again my opinion as Al says this is me speaking I feel like all of a sudden we're getting it and we have to vote on this and I know that there's been some meetings there was a meeting at the mckam school again the neighborhood association they were on last week's finance committee but I don't think it's enough time to digest this and again I think is very misleading because what I thought when I read this first from when I saw the meeting to what I uh was at on Saturday to today I've heard so many different things I don't know which one one it means and I think and I agree with what Gary said that the more times you put on it I think it creates a mistrust with town government and the people I think they just feel like oh they're going to throw it out there and see uh what you get and let's see if it sticks and I don't know if anybody is on social media but if you're on the Westport Facebook page there are a lot of people that are going to vote against this especially people along Route Six I must have saw 30 posts and I'm not sure that I saw one in favorite and I know that's only a sampling but I think as I think if recent history serves the purpose with the town override it's quick people are not informed properly and I'm not I think again like everybody says we all want good water that's not the issue at all but we need to do it in a way where people believe in it they know what the costs are because there there's there's a lot of exclusion right now on everybody's taxes and I think we need to not do it as many times as it takes I think we need to do it right the first time um so but again I I think the people that have taken a lot of time to work through this I I give them a lot of credit and I thank them for this but I think everybody else needs a little bit more time uh to understand what it is that we're being asked to vote on thank you thank you so much that was so well said so thank you um and K if I could make one quick suggestion yeah sure please do it may while for you or maybe a couple members of the finance committee to meet independently and and with us or members of the infrastructure oversight committee to go over the details so that you know we're not hashing everything out here and then and then bring the unknowns or the questions back to the full committee um I think we may be able to accomplish a little bit more if we can actually dive into a lot of the minutia with this with this project um you know that there's papers and plans and specs and estimates that you know we could show you to or show somebody just to show that this stuff has been done but it's difficult and and I don't have the answer right I don't have the answer for the committee I don't know how we get it out to the public um better than we have or in different ways or how we extend the time um you know sometimes you have to work with what we have to work with and I think that's where we are right now and you know we'll see what the vote is doing in April and then see what happens at town meeting but I I think the specific questions some of the questions you had there's answers to those questions but it's extremely difficult to articulate them in this type of format no I appreciate that Jim um well we'll let me think about that I you know I think part of part of having the conversation here is that whoever might be listening from the general public should be hearing the answers too and the questions and and sorting through it um that helps um eliminate some of the myths and and things that are that are happening but you know in terms of just in terms of the way that the article 14 is written and I can appreciate from a legal standpoint the more generic you make it the better it is and it's safer but from from everybody else who's thinking oh they're going into neighborhoods oh they're doing this oh they're doing that you've that article perpetuates that because it's not clear if the article was clear then people could read that and you've negated all of these myths that are going on and you know I'll say I sent it to you there are maps posted all over Route Six that are where did those come from why are they there how did they get there because they're inaccurate they're not this project those are posted in businesses all around Route Six so where did that come from that's a good point and I think anybody out there that's listening they should go to the town website to get their information and not to the local convenience store or restaurant um that's where the the information is that's where the maps are that's where the frequently asked questions are that's where the plans are um and if they have any questions to to contact us and we'll try to answer them the best we can and as we can tell from this meeting these questions are not always easy to answer and they don't always make sense so uh yeah we'll do what we can yeah yeah one one of the suggestions that I was had had spoken to a Committee Member and then maybe Christopher who's a leas on to the committee my suggestion is to try to create I know you've got the frequently asked questions and you've got presentations and if somebody wants to watch a two-hour meeting they can get information but I think it's important if you could have a one page quick facts you know quick information a one one or two pages at the most would just here's the summary of the project and give give a summary of what people's people that are on root sex give an estimate of what their costs are going to be detail and itemize it out between the betterment the interest that they're going to get on the betterment if they choose to not pay it their connection fees for water connection fees for SE an estimated construction cost to connect into the line and then give an estimate of what a three-bedroom home is going to have for monthly Water and Sewer usage bills right so put that all out for people because it's not out there you have to watch so many meetings and maybe you can pick one thing out like have a [Music] onepage it's a great point we'll work on that yeah one page it's you know an ex or and even that fact sheet can be here's what it's not right so here's what it is but deplo you know talk about the myths out there it is not this it is not that just one page to to sum all of this up I think is is a crucial element to to get out to people but all right that was easy what's next [Laughter] okay stop throwing me softballs all right well Jim um I think we W to let you go all right I'm gonna leave on that note before something else comes up you guys have a good night we don't let the door hit you in the rear end on the way out right yeah just as Al said and and and Gary said we appreciate everything you do and you're always here for us to help and you always yep you always put us in the right direction so I appreciate you're spending the time tonight thank you guys keep us on our toes I appreciate that you guys have a good you thanks thanks Jim right go home and see your family holy bolies okay so um it is 8:35 and um we do have a lot of Warren articles that we need to um start to go through and uh vote on we don't need to do it tonight but we are starting to I think we can have a dedicated meeting if we prefer to not do anym this evening we can do that um suggest there some we technically have to approve but it'll take about five minutes that because they're already have the funds when the transferring around maybe we do a quick Breeze through the things that don't require any time yeah the one the one item that we haven't really talked through is the budget right so we had where we laugh last left it was um there was a town engineer that was in there we wanted to get some clarification on that um but the biggest item was the school number in terms of uh where do we sit with that and then the third item was I had recommended to add some money to the Animal Control budget um I had I had suggested 20,000 I did reach out to the Board of Health who then took it to their board and um and I put it in our folder tonight so they are requesting 25,000 um that would really be what they would need so those are the three things on the budget that we really still need to talk through uh we don't need to do it tonight but we really need to do it in our next meeting so it's up to the committee do you want to call it tonight well are you still are you still inviting the infrastructure committee to the next meeting if if you are that that's going to take up the whole meeting again yeah I I mean um does everyone what does everyone think I mean do we want to talk to the infrastructure committee more for because I have more questions and again um I shot Jim a long email of a number of questions which I will forward to you now so you can see some of the questions that myself and other members who I had spoken with over the last week in a non- quorum uh way uh had some comments and I kind of try to put a lot of them together I guess I guess my question would be is there anything that the committee could say I I guess when when answering that individually per member is there anything that the any one of those committee members could say that would change your mind on the vote so you know if you think that there are things that they could add that might change your mind then then fine but if we're just going to keep going through what we went through last week and what we went through tonight and what we're going to go through again next week and it's the same information then I don't really see the point if if you think that there's information that that will change your mind then fine I'm all for having them back in again but that's just my opinion I think Cindy's right we thrashed it at Great length for a couple of meetings so I'm sorry say that again Hugh I missed what you said I think we we we have thrashed it around for a couple of meetings and I think even though we're confused in some things I don't know they make a great deal of difference in terms of how you approach it thank you go ahead Christopher you've got your hand up yes thank you uh so what I wanted to to mention here is I think that Cindy has a point as far as uh as far as how much time has been discussed or we' we've taken to discuss it but also uh I think Jim mentioned the possibility of maybe even take getting a questionnaire together to to give to the infrastructure committee uh in written form to uh to get presented with answers and I think that actually might be a more certainly an efficient use of time but I also think it it would be uh frankly easier to get that together from the infrastructure committee's perspective than it would be to to have another whole meeting dedicated to it so if if that's something that can be done uh even if it just starts with with the questions that you had forwarded to uh Jim and to to build on those but that's that's my suggestion thanks yeah I wasn't anticipating us having a conversation tonight but but we did speak a lot of things so um go ahead Michelle uh I was just GNA suggest and it kind of follows along with Christoper said and and you said you already sent a list of questions maybe I mean for me there there might be questions that could be answered that could change my mind I don't know but I do have questions based on everything that I've heard so far so why not send look at your list of questions that you put together maybe we all have our own list of questions try to combine that try to keep the me the meeting very limited because I agree we've spent a lot of time and and have you know um a lot of people have spent a lot of time on it and maybe just try after that we you know we would have to take a vote or whatever but I think next week would be like you know the drop dead meeting with specific questions a specific goal for that meeting um to be able to move on from it sure and I'll forward the list of questions and then if you all have more questions we can add to the list and we can send it off to them in advance so um we can do that so I'd love to hear from Duncan and Zach on your thoughts on this because I haven't heard from either of you go ahead dun yeah my uh I guess you know I guess my biggest question is what happens if the finance committee doesn't approve this forign article uh for the debt exclusion well the finance committee makes a recommendation to town meeting so that's all we do so understand that has implications though that has significant implications I would think it it may or may not we've you know the finance committee's made recommendations before and the town meeting does what it chooses to do so of course it potentially has implications but um yes and and again what people going to know what what our position is as a committee uh before the election no well we will oh before the election um well we don't make recommendations on the ballot so we're making recommendations no but I mean but it may come it may come out that we've decided to not support it or not recommend it I mean is that is that an issue I don't know I think you know I we need to do what we need to do to prepare to get our answers to make our recommendations for the town meeting if it happens to be um next week which is in makes sense for us because we really need to start to finalize these then uh so be it so we can't we can't wait to make a recommendation after the ballot Just to to you know we we've got to vote that's fine I just I don't know the I don't know the that's what I'm asking we've never this is I think the first time that we're voting on something for town meeting that's also at the ballot before the town meeting so this is very unusual for for all of it and and you know to your point Karen this is uh you know the second largest project that the town has ever undertaken and you know that shouldn't be lost on people right right Zach are you still are you here do you have any um yes go ahead Zach go ahead yeah I'm here I think Jim brought up a good point with information and maybe there's more out there that we haven't been digging into ourselves I think maybe we could come up with a list of questions dig into it on our own time trying to answer as many questions as we can and kind of in the same vein of what Hugh is saying maybe we could work on chipping away at the things that will go a little bit quicker not lose you know productivity in the next meeting and then come Circle back around to that when we we've done a little bit more due diligence sure thing go ahead uh Hugh you get your hand up just want make a comment as far as Duncan the finance committee advises the town meeting the tance committee is not a political instrument that Advocates promoting things Etc so I don't think it would be appropriate for us whatever our conclusion were before the election to go around taking a position shall we say I think that's Ventures into the election area we went through this a great length in connection with the override of what we can and cannot do this is different but has similarities and I get I I I totally get that you I was just again thinking about giving the the magnitude of this project and you know and our role in you know making that recommendation that my question yeah yeah and unfortunately the ballot meeting is April 9th right yes right that is our that is our absolute drop dead that we have to have all our recommendations done so that we can go to town meeting so I would not suggest that we wait till the 9th to have that discussion as a group because if we're having a discussion and we then say Oh well we needed one more piece of information for clarity we have no time so I would not I believe April 9th is your election I'm not sure it has anything to do with the close of the warrant Etc but we have to get it to the select board for posting and printing by then we've promised that we to them yes that's what I say but it is not nine happens for the election I wasn't sure the two no it just happens to be the same uh the same thing so it it needs to be right the ninth was our drop dead and even Jim was thinking that was a little on the late side for us so you know we should try for April 2nd and so that's that's only two two more weeks so um so unfortunately I think that's just a timing of it I Madam chair I I hate to interject I really do think to Mr Morton's Port uh point there there may be some issues uh with coming out with a recommendation on this uh as as as it relates to potential electioneering um so we probably want to get some clarity on that just to make sure uh because I think that that may actually be an issue uh if if certainly not discussing it but the form a formal vote might be might but our vote will be of public record I mean if we vote on it whether we vote on it tonight next week or whatever week if you know if the Press picks it up for any indiv idual watches this meeting it's a matter of public record that could be disseminated in any way so I mean no different than we took a a recommendation regarding the override as a committee as long as we're not out there campaigning one way or the other you know our our committee has a responsibility to come up with a recommendation uh about the article that's before so I can't see how that it would you know that that's our charge is is to make a recommendation so I can't see how that would be electioneering in any stretch of imagination provided we're not going out there campaigning for it for or against um you know we merely take our our vote as a as a member of the finance committee and it's public record whenever that vote is taken yes that was basically my point I don't disagree with you yeah right I think that that's fine uh Duncan did you still have your hand up or was that from before you're and you're muted too oh no hand up okay so um it's 8:47 do we want to call it tonight all right so can let's just do one administrative thing if we could if we could approve the minutes since we've pushed that off for three weeks don't moved so February the minutes of February 20th 2024 we could do all three minutes together if everyone uh is comfortable with that yep bundle it is a package all right we will do a bundle we are GNA say the minutes of February 20th 2024 March 5th 2024 and March 12th 2024 i' like a motion to um don't move approve thank you is there a second thank you I will do a roll call any discussion on those any of those minutes all right I will do a roll call Christoper hi thank you Hugh Morton Hugh Morton I Al Al I thank you Duncan Duncan law thank you Zach Z Michelle Michelle Al landai Gary yes thank you Cindy Cindy Brown I and Karen I and uh so to wrap that a motion to adjourn if someone would be so motion to adjourn time for time for a cocktail before thank you de thank you so much we'll do a roll call quick and then uh good night everyone thank you Christopher Chris rasher I thank you Hugh Hugh Morton i b Al is I Duncan Duncan I thank you Zach Zach I Michelle Michelle oando I thank you Gary yes thank you Cindy Cindy Brown I and Karen RS I thank you all good night good night you