we have we have a quum and it's past 6 so the meeting is now open uh the voting members are has to be oh Katrina has to be here to record um we could take notes until she gets here she's got the video too the video is recording so we um anyway for the record the voting mbers tonight are R Lawrence Pendle G stuck and shoot um so let's start with the minutes of May 6 coms there was only one um thing that Katrina was going to do she was going to get the name of the architect for the um the church right and why it's XXX right now but we'll fill that in when we get the name was there an architect or was it was it brownly she thought it she thought they mentioned an architect but she's going to track that down okay okay anything else I move we accept the minutes as presented second uh with with with the change to the archit me with the change to the arch okay as amended you seconded it um okay let's take a roll call vote I de Al I stuck ey Willam Kendall I Rod Lawrence I ask approved okay Treasures reports um so I'll redo the balances General expense account uh $487 um whc revenue account which I haven't reported for a while but that's $450 as as of the beginning of May uh Town Farm expense $195.62 uh whc trust fund $1 19,4 48377 Town Farm trust $818 47 wolf pit School Trust ,150 40 have a motion I move we accept the treasures report second take a roll call Beverly shook I debor chi I gar stuck i r I'll take all the and I have one there from last Monk as well great okay we're at 6:05 p.m. so we have uh 1919 Main Road application for certificate of appropriateness for replacement of wood gutters and uh f is there anyone here for 1919 people are there Catherine are you in yet I don't think so okay okay did you send it to the selectman I did did you hear from them no okay it's probably timing is yeah and you'll know when you're sworn in so anyway we're uh excited to have you on the commission we are we have a name plate should we reverse the order maybe and and here from 1958 main road because I see they're here we can always go back back um well technically we're on at 620 um so yes so maybe we can um see what other business we there was something that that didn't require our hearing though right that's even later in the agenda that's even later yeah so um so let's let's go to some of these other items uh monitors reports yeah I can monitor on on Barbara Brewer she came before us to install a um uh what do you call them thing air conditioner unit and um she called me the other day it's installed go inspect it it looks fine exactly as she was approved so that's good so you did you did review it and it's approved yeah great okay she was kind enough to call Great any other monitors report yeah um um 238 and 240 Main Road this is the house that has is going to have an addition put on the back and also the small 18th century cap that's being raised stored in the back uh I looked at that last week and it is being raced it was quite amazing what's going on with that what's going on are they bu completely gutted a foundation underneath or why is it so high that's not a well they have to raise raise it before they drop it back on got to put a new foundation on is there a timetable for that or cuz the work seems to be very sporadic I know we don't care about that uh the addition has been removed from the back so that demolition is done and now um I'm assuming they're going to start uh putting the foundation in for the new new addition and also the major construction right now is when I was there was quite quite shocked at the equipment and the large steel beans and the whole work so anyway that's what's being done I just have one addition the mon on monitor's report for 21 Valentine's Lane they sent me a photo for the record so we have that now we had already looked at it but now it's done and I have a photo any other monitors reports uh any applications for certificates of non-applicability well just the one that came in as a certificate of appropriateness but we're considering it for the elements that are non applicable so that's otherwise there was nothing else that came in okay um new business no no that wasn't a that wasn't a hand rais so um reminder that we have a June 10th meeting with Chris Skelly training session um that is online and uh they'll send us the links will be I think it's 90 minutes maybe it's an hour I have to check that Sor this is at the this this is right it's virtual it's virtual you can just log in yeah let Jean show show you okay yeah unless you want to come over to my place and we can log in together and you can just she's no no I can do it I just don't like that okay over Co I just was sick of it all I know um other business uh so I went over to the town Farm today I met Tony mum who's been coordinating the uh repairs there that that were funded by the CPC and uh he walked me through it they put a new fiber fiberglass gutter uh on the L and um uh repaired the storm screen door that that was rotting and and you know done some other things to to uh try to address the water issues we're plaguing the property um and so so that's done and um I'm going to hand this off to this CPC to pay the bill um do I need a copy of that document for the list of attachments or no I don't think we don't have to approve this I mean so I I I don't think you need this okay um there there is a lot of other work there that that has to be done uh and um you know so we talked a little bit about that U maybe seeking more CPC funding but there's a there's an out building there a couple of out buildings that that need work there are trees that need to be uh removed because they're hanging down on roofs and and things like that so um it's going to be an ongoing project uh and then also uh there there is something we have to act on for the um CPC funding but but that's the Westport gra so so that's that's on later in the meeting yep 640 so we are in the awkward position yes um I'd like to suggest it's not CPC funding it's CPA funding approved by town meeting it's C CPC recommended yes thank you thank you it's not CPC does make those decisions than um just do you know because it doesn't require public hearing maybe we could hear the Grange uh talk now since we've got some time okay they aren't here well they aren't here well in that case we can't on this one that isn't a public heing because it was was a problem with it right yeah so we could discuss that um so so this is 1898 Main Road are there um Representatives here from 18 okay good great um so first of all I want to apologize we due to a clerical error we did not send the notice to the abutters uh in a in a in a timely way so that we could discuss your certificate of appropriateness at this meeting um so what we can do is we can discuss any aspects of your proposal that would qualify for a certificate of nonability and uh I think there are several um so do you want to describe to us what what you're um proposing to do uh yes um yeah yeah if you want to come forward and and that way your voice gets recorded we can share Sor proposal and these are the photos and also state your name my name is Diane Rino 18 98 Main Road what we're proposing to do is reshingle uh the east west and south sides of the house the north side is not bad and we'll just power wash that um so that's really like for like M uh any boards we've had um woodpecker issues we've got a lot of replacing of of trim to do and that will be like as well uh I think all we really had left was paint trim and door color change and windows three windows that we wanted to replace due to rod and you said those windows are not visible from the public way there's a Gable on the back of the house there's two windows up there not at all visible from the from the road these yes okay mhm um yeah I'm looking at a photograph here that has some shingles here oh that's a color preference color preference for for the trim and the doors trim and door okay so it's not for the sh look like a shap sorry okay great thanks okay and is this the the third window that's the third window on the North side and you can barely see the street there uhhuh and uh I guess I can't see what that window is it is it over six yes and you're planning to replace it with another 6 over six yes so this Marvin cut sheet is this the cut sheet for the window yeah that's what he sent me it's not exactly what I was looking for but that's what he sent me and it is 6 over six okay so these have how do they have the mtons in the window is it they do they do that that particular window just doesn't show it but he he assured me that they would can I see yeah these are just the neighbor's house and there's a structure down below that so you wanted pictures of any other structures on the property as well okay I thought well you know what this does not include a a scale drawing of the window what is the the name of the window it'll it'll be um maavin I have Mau in there now it's going to be a like for like window frame the question question is what the Marvin has uh you know there's there's a make and then there's a model and this is like the model of the window it has a name U Marvin like Elevate is one Elevate or whatever Elevate has the these are Marvin Windows that you have here those are Marvin Windows we have there yes so we don't really know what that window is either they aluminum CL Windows no those are all wood wooden windows okay yeah um and they're how old those windows the windows that you see there are 30 years old yeah okay and you plan to replace it with a wood window as well the three Windows only we're only replacing three Oh I thought there was one that was in view that you were repl on the North side so these these two on the East those are not visible um but there's this one on the North side so this is m we have a view of it from the side yeah a little bit of a view well we don't have a view of that window right and this would come before us for the next uh I think the window maybe has to come next time just that one window cuz that is somewhat visible so we could just take that up as a separate issue maybe they could Supply you with the actual cut sheet of the window they're going to be using and a drawing to show us you see the styles of the B Window have changed over the years and um the one that would fit and match up with the other windows would be the elev okay I know that's what he plans on doing but I I kind of left it up to him but yes there's two major differen there a very very heavy looking window which is the regular Mar window and then they have a separate window which is um Elevate and it's wood but it has a fiberglass face on it which is very durable and paintable MH so it's very very good product right so and also less expensive he he that's good I think he told me it was wood clad yeah that's was wood clad but that what he means by clad is aluminum clad the aluminum on the side of it right so this what you want to ask him then is to use the Elevate Elevate which has a fiberglass okay yeah so right if you so if you could if you at the next meeting if you could provide us with um you know details about the model and and also maybe a picture of this window yeah I thought I had more than one picture in there of that you've got pictures of the back quite a few and the front I I thought I took one from the Street as well so you could actually see that this one visible is this one no that's not that this one no what's this that's my side door the side door okay repainting that no we're I have pictures of of those as well that we're replacing those two doors okay with this the simulated divided yes as an inside door here here's from the street north side is that what we're for yes we need a head-on view of the window okay I can do that yeah yeah so we can see see the details it would be the same as the other two gable Windows okay and and that window will match the other yes the other windows that are on that side of the house yes absolutely and you have a door here a photo of a door there that's the wood inside door on the South Side okay we wish to replace with that red door and with these colors with those colors either one uh the wood would the the the wood doors would be the olive color nice and I have either it's like an almond or cream color that would be the trim of the house okay so that wood door would be replacing that door we're replacing that door and the outside storm door and I have a picture of the Almond door that's the house yeah on the side there yes that door door there okay so that's the door yeah this door I just want to point out that this is a wooden door yes and this is most likely a Simpson door okay very very good door okay great and also rightly proportion so you come next time be all ready okay so uh I I brought along um because you I knew you were applying for like for like in trim I just wanted to show you some you could use okay because if you it's um very difficult trim boards today are very difficult because they make trim boards that fall apart finger jointed trim boards that are made out of a pine people call them Pine they think they're Pine but they're not the radiata pine from new Ze New Zealand and they're a plantation wood and if you put that wood on your house it rots out right away so don't do it okay all right you have to find out if it's radiative Pine but this is radiat ofine that's been treated with a preservative okay inside pressure treated so it's not fresher treated lumber it doesn't have the poisons in it the fresher treated lumber has it's some other ingredient and so it's been it it's gone into the wood itself and they guarantee it for 50 years I don't know what that means but it's 50 years of whatever I don't believe it but um you know and it's comes pre- Prime like you see here nice surface and it's meant to be painted okay and it has very nice edges on it you see this is PVC MH um which happens to be a plastic like wuming pipes uhhuh only a cellular PVC it has very fine cells in the core and so that is also very good and very durable and we do allow it in the district okay um as opposed to wood trim so it requires a certificate of appropriateness but yes we do approprate yes as a like for like yes we would approve it yeah okay anyway I just want to mention it so so people understand the problem with trim boards and this is what would be you would want to use okay I should write that down I just say you need to take some here's your for the okay train boards you you would put in your specifications um Dian you would put in your specifications ASAC or or um light quality equivalent equivalent ASAC a Zac yeah exact equivalent this is claymark for equivalent because they make a number of these products okay good and the window is Elevate Marvin Elevate yeah Elevate yes I got that and I want to take a picture of that window head on right okay good now the um the trim color so we don't we don't have jurisdiction over the color of of door um but uh where exactly is is this trim going on the house the olive color colors will be on the two wood doors the front Okay so this this color is on the doors on the doors the two wood doors the barn door and the side door okay and then the um um if you will almond or cream color is on all the trim so you're going to repaint you're going to paint the trim of the entire house yes okay so the good thing about that elevate window is that that fiberglass it can be painted very very easily good and this stuff folds up paint I mean wherever you replace a trim board this will hold the paint very very well good okay we have a lot that needs to be replaced um any thoughts about the that trim color very yeah I'd like it to match the Alum um the um outside door that we're going to replace you have a door there it looks like an almond color yes that's a tough looking but it's an almond color no side lights MH so we'll match the trim with that as well okay well that's um I mean that's a change that we would have to approve at the um at the next meeting but I think uh I think we can probably uh issue a certificate of non-applicability for the shingles okay uh and for those two windows on the east side of the house okay uh and anything else I mean the the um the the door color again is um that's that's U something we don't have jurisdiction over the trim boards that's a CNA down here trim boards no the oh the theed as need the nature of the trim boards you want us do you want a spec um from the contractor on what we're using well no that's for you I mean okay you're just suggesting yeah it's nice it's nice but um I'm just saying this is just for your information okay all right um but the trim boards will be like for like correct yes absolutely no construction changes whatsoever that going to replace yes yeah I mean I I I think we would like to see a spec for it I mean okay we would you can show us the specs yes show us the spe okay so if we do a CNA on this meeting tonight it's on the shingle rep placement it's the two out of the three Windows M and what about these sashes I mean it's all combined with the window right so that's and then we'll wait on the spec for the trim is that what you want to do for the next meeting they really can't do much unless we get more of a um oky doie yeah start with the shingles and then you know you have to deal with boards and right that's okay um I mean I I I think we could probably approve the the trim boards put that did you have a plan for starting this well he seems pretty anxious to get materials um yeah that's what I was thinking want order materials so you can at least get some things ordered yeah um which seems to have been a concern in the past so right um so then you're down to to one window the one window and and then the trim color which that that's that's uh that shouldn't hold you up right right that come at the end the other thing I just want to mention on the Marvin Elevate windows I believe you could order the window with that color already on the exterior cladding it's it's possible I know next door had all hers redone it's very very very nice um it Happ to be the same contractor so hopefully everything will be nice yeah and windows there are a long lead time so right get those right he did mention that and the doors so well the doors are fine right we don't have a call on the doors she can order the doors the storm door is a light for like yeah so the doors are fine okay it was just the color change I think possible okay okay so I think I think good enough you can get started and and then we'll see you again on July 1 so do we need to approve a CNA then and then we can do the ca next time yeah so I guess we should take a vote on on CNA for these items um we don't need to you guys between the two of you can make that decision we just decide that okay so we're going to issue a CNA for these items which I'll issue tomorrow and get it stamped okay you'll have that and when is a um a building permit um they'll ask you for your they'll ask you for your certificate the building department they're going to want to see the certificate we will we'll send it to the building department so they'll have it and you'll be able to at least get your permit for these items that are approved right and then in July we'll hear your application for the things that we couldn't approve tonight so then if the contractor or we decide to we just go to the building Department he should be able to pull the permit mhm okay okay good okay all right so I'll work on this okay we're all set thank you today all right thank you thank you okay so now we pass 640 so we can by the way is there is there anybody here now from 1919 Road oh okay did each of you get a copy of our page thanks for bringing these thank you that's so um Scott Scott Jones 1919 Main Road and uh the package indicates that we plan to replace wooden gutters with a uh fiberglass gutter uh that has uh from a manufacturer that replicates a wooden gutter profile and then we're anticipating some of the fascia board would be compromised in the removal and reinstallation process so we going to be able to uh replace any facial board with a light Dimension and we're likely going to go with the uh radiata of pine that's been uh treated now the gutters will be on the entire house yes and they'll be exactly where they are and in way yeah we've uh not made any any exterior changes to the house so it's kind of the last thing are you replacing the down spouts we're going to try to reuse as many of the down spouts as we can and if we have to replace something or extend something we want to go again with a traditional you know replicating Bo there but yeah we plan to repurpose the down spouts are are you using copper we're not that's uh there's a picture of a copper down spell yeah not sure that's the proposed for the gutter okay it's not for the down spout okay would they be round down spouts they are now okay and if we had to replace any they'd be round and match it matching the gutters not okay I got to tell you your guys get there about 6:30 in the morning some of them come from New Hampshire do they really when you like that come here and I'm just curious uh why um why you chose the G60 profile I don't know this was put together by uh our contractor and that's what they recommended uh it's likely because it the gutters that are there are really quite petite when you think of the wood and the actual interior mhm because the the wood has to be bolder right and uh so we wanted to go with as petite as we can from a uh a stack standpoint to match what's there but there's actually because it's fiber Lo there's more room inside to carry more water so we didn't want a gigantic gutter we wanted to be as close as possible l s now but still have better water flow this is the same gutter that I had brought a sample in to show the commission same manufacturer other comments know I've watched this every day the past how however long since you were here last we're getting close we're getting close the show's almost over and everything has looked just spoton great everything that you've done so far yeah they're very very good contractors uh they they uh have rebuilt uh our uh Colonial home in NM and uh my son works for the company as well so they're very uh responsible you like to make a motion to approve can we ask any comments from my Butters or MERS of the audience I'd like to make a motion to approve the application as submitted second okay de I de i d i unanimously okay thanks very much well done thank you okay you need to assign monitors yes we need to assignors I can I can write to him I you to the monitor yeah we'll Monitor and can you notify just disappear already uh doesn't he have to sign something no no no we just emphasiz we have to just create the certificate and then put our monitor's names on and you have to sign the certificate I have to sign it okay um okay so monitors uh we will monitor okay good okay 6:20 p.m. 1958 Main Road continuation of hearing for application of certificate of appropriat for solar panels good evening I am Patricia Palmer and I'm joined by Scott Brown the co-founder of rooftop power um I just want to thank you for your time tonight and I also want to thank those of you who came to the site visit I was not present but my husband who's in Hong Kong um was there and filled me in and those of you that were there are also aware of what went on but to recap uh the site visit uh you were able to review a sample of the actual um nondescript Matt Black panel um our hope is to re locate one of the skylights that's on the south side to the north side um replacing all the skylights on the roof with like for likee velu Windows and I did send that cut sheet over um to allow for a contiguous toothless panel design um on the south side of the middle not the main house um we're also proposing replacing gutters with those suggested for other projects almost identical to what was submitted just ahead of us um by the fiberglass gutter company um improving the downspouts or drain pipes um by converting them from the existing rectangular aluminum ones to rounded historic um historically round attractive to the district um down spouts and the cut sheets for the gutters and the skylights I believe have both been submitted I think that that was what was covered at the site visit in addition to our original presentation so once again I respectfully request approval for this project and any questions that I might not have addressed so what what what do we have okay so here's the cut sheets for the gutters are basically the ones we just saw um same the exact same oh the exact same the exact sheet that we just saw except I don't know which if it's G60 that you're choosing or g90 I guess it would depend on this G is is the one that was checked on the one that you submitted but I don't know if that was also the one that was okay I we'll need to confirm which is that I think it's just a size right right they're different profiles as you can see they're different shapes so so I think it would just match the existing one that's up there and I believe it's a wood gutter that's up there now that would get replaced with this fiberglass do you have any photo I mean you guys saw the site visit do you have any photos of the existing gutter that would be useful to have um I don't know if you have anything from it's pretty nondescript to be honest um it's just a wooden kind of angled from what I can remember seeing I don't bear with me all okay is there anything else while he pulls that up uh the Skylight I have the cut sheets here for the skylights these are velu that yeah and they're velu now on the house so they're like for like pictures just spe sheet you're basically moving moving just the one that's on the South Side that's in the way of that panel design to the exact same spot just on the North side north side yeah which is where the other skylights exist changes the configuration of the skylights is that correct or no not skylights the the the solar panels it doesn't change from what we we presented to you no it doesn't change it just doesn't have the Skylight if we left the Skylight there you would have a cutout in the panel it's called it toothless or something that so they're trying to get a contiguous so just I I felt like I co into that phrase everybody's using it yeah so it's appropriate yeah it's just a continuous so it'll match the roof there won't be any interrupt so these are some of our site survey photos just showing from the outside I if this will satisfy what you're looking at you see y currently and it looks like the G so it's similar to the G60 one that we just approved yes do you need to see deorah I can see okay and so this is so the first step is is to reshingle the roof right and and and so the the gutters all that all that corre facial board stuff like that that'll be done at the same time as the as the roof okay and the roof will be black black yeah so it matches as close as possible to the the solar panel M I just want to say something because this is probably the last chance I have to say anything before more solar goes up in the region but somebody sent me a link to a show that Walter pronai did with John Stobart do you know who he is he's a famous Marine artist he's fabulous and he was painting on the west on West Park point which he loved to come here and paint it was about shut up it's about 40 years ago and so I'm very I'm feeling very nostalgic tonight because I got to look at the point as it was when I first came here 40 years ago and um he's been in love with it ever since he died last year just about a year ago you guys were very kind when I when moved in about a year ago and I talked to Jonathan he wanted to do the solar I think before you were unpacked and I I asked him to kindly just wait and see because they would eventually come along with more aesthetic and more affordable solar panels but of course the industry has no motivation to do that because they've got gos of government money so this is where we are today um from my own perspective I think you've done it as as you know gracefully and gently as you can do it I'm not a fan I'm never going to be a fan and I I do have some misgivings about the shine because I think shad's gallery has the same solar panels and they do shine in the Sun so I'm I'm just my fear is that this is the last argument we're going to have and then it's going to possibly be a sea of shiny black roofs and I feel like so much has been lost on the point in the last 40 years that I'm you know our job is to be protective of that not just for us it's not US versus them you know it's a cooperation thing because whatever attracted you to the point is what we're trying to preserve so I'm not going to vote against you but I just had to say that so thank you know that okay thank you for sharing that I'd like to just read something for over 200 years this collection of buildings has remained the most for the most part as an important reminder of our Town's history the homes have retained their essence of architectural Styles georan Colonial Federal Greek Revival and Victorian as a historic district the buildings have kept their important architectural features Windows doors trim and the roofs the roofs are equally as important as a design element and one of the most visible components of the district the roofing material materials have transitioned from wood shingles to asphalt shingles but have maintained a visual continuity installing solar panels a very foreign element would drastically alter the architectural integy of the district uh we must look at how rare the essence of the point is and how tenuous it can be would you like to see solar panels on a house in Colonial Williamsburg the decision to allow solar panels in this District be one of the most drastic alteration in its 200 year long history my recommendation would be to deny this application comments from the G comments from others members I have one question for your CH what's theing of your CH in your attic and and what's the weight any on the weight of the pan installation I know it's a little different because our house 69 Center mine are about 30 in my there was a structural there's a structural engineered stamp on the pl so it has to be looked at to make sure it can support the way the panels with snow Lo so that that has been done and the engineer hased they can support typically it's 24 in on I'm look here at my site survey notes we have the measurements our beams aren't true anything they are something yeah so this it says the roof is stick framed with actual 2.75 in x 7 in rafter faced inconsistently between 18 to 36 in on Center with most of the rafter spaces 32 in on Center so I I can answer that in our case we had to have done inside and also the hurricane Clips so they took that into consideration I have different solar companies that I work with initially was just spe out and see on our house what will be possible and one company was going to look at sistering in exting Jo and one set not so just for your pece of mind to make sure that you know you have and just better safe sorrys any well also you don't want it to develop sags like sand the beach then you might want to consider noted noted I want to just make a comment responding to Bill's very eloquent reading of his um recommendation and Beverly's very passionate commentary about the point um I think the only the Saving Grace here is that these solar panels are on the second piece of the house not they on the L instead of the very front part of the house I think it does save a little bit of the Integrity of the point and what it looks like in going up and down Main Street so at least it's set back a bit and it is a little less in your face with the with the panels so I totally get what you're saying and I appreciate that I did go to the site visit and the house is a very very fine um house that does have an L I mean a Greek Revival style house that has an L that goes out the bat where they're putting a solar panel is highly visible from a public L I'm just telling you this is a major major decision that you people are making and it's something you're going to regret I think you may be right and I I also have been trying to weigh what really benefit you'll get you'll save because there's so much vegetation around the side thing in the back there's also what you'll save in money I mean I appreciate anybody who buys two 300 year old house you don't do that to save money they're expensive they require a lot of upkeep and work and maintenance so I I really appreciate people who come in with the intention of preserving it having said that I'm trying to weigh what you would save the gain that you would have from putting this up versus the shipping away at the historic nature of this historic district I was just going to say that you have no say over roofs and people could come in with a purple metal roof and we've been lucky we've been through that before I know I know I'm just saying so if you're really concerned the only meeting the only thing about r we don't have a say over is the color that's the only thing we're allowed to exempt ourselves from well is the color not the material not the structure right now that's the case you say that's the case but that has to go to town meeting no it doesn't because it's in the state law the to meeting cannot exempt us from the state law I know I know but the color is also very important it's very important but yeah no and I heard I've heard uh commans talk about the roofs at the point screaming about them because of the color so there's a there been a lot of talk about roofs and I understand what you're saying too and the state law also suggests that we should consider solar panels in historic district yeah chapter 4C says that and also and the precedent before was it wouldn't be on the house it would be on an addition house output this is very visible that's true but still think someone um I feel like I have to say something to you I don't think you would de with this I I can't I don't think you will deeply regret I think that that comment is what triggered you to say something you thought about a lot and it's a changing time Williamsburg is a museum so is the Point Village is a museum the point is not a museum it's a place where we live some of us Liv there for it's a Living Museum it's not a it's stor you will not regret it and you need to consider people who need to live there kind of nice to have some younger people moving in actually and times we had other changes I can remember when this commission didn't think they would ever approve a met ever thought about it you have you went through a lot of things you learned from experience and now we have we have to worry about energy the cost of energy if you want to have an electric car the difference between having solar power and not is a huge huge monthly expense and so I don't think this is something you're going and I just want hear that LE someone feels thank you anybody else so I i' just like to um reiterate some of the things I I I said last time I spoke in favor of the proposal and um uh I think these are not permanent changes to the structures um who who knows what the energy situation will look like in in 30 years when when when these when the life of of these things expires um you know the buildings are not being changed in a fundamental way um you know all all things being equal I i' prefer not to have solar panels on on houses at the point but uh I think we can't resist this we can't say no to everything every solar panel in at the point um I I think we Court will will be shot down um by the state you know so on uh I think this particular proposal uh satisfies uh you know two really important um criteria one is that the solar panels will be essentially the same color as the as the shingles and that will minimize the contrast uh also the solar panels will not be on the main part of the house and I think in my opinion that that's the most we can hope for and I I just wanted to share with you this this thing that appeared on my doorstep this week I don't know how many people in point got this but um this is uh something completely unsolicited by me but it's it's a um it's a proposal to put solar panels on my house that's some great marketing I'll have to steal that pictures and uh yeah there's a there's a there's a picture there's an Aral picture of my house Sol psow on all three parts of the house oh wow and how many people in the point gett that's what I'm talking about yeah but going go all over the point after this well but we're going to be looking at it well but we we the the best we can do I think is is is to is to control it to make it as appropriate as possible we cannot simply deny all Sol panels at the point that's my well those are not in view from a public way well I mean most of the South sides of the houses are public way comments again car they're going to be there a long time it'll be there a long time is it going to be 50 years you think we're going to have to look at what is the useful life is it 30 so there's a manufactural warranty for 25 years at the end of 25 years she'll produce 88% of what they do on day one so it's actually a misconception that at 25 years they're no good it's going to be performing at 88% of what it does on day one so there is degradation in system loss over the years but you can have these panels at his point for 50 60 70 years no problem with the solar they slowly degrade over time but so they'll be there long long term yes doing it the right way with a with a brand new roof it's going to help prod like that solar panels are she's going to have more longevity on that roof space just the wind the rain the panels are taking the the front force of that just uncatch fire they're nasty fires they are have you seen pictures then I've seen I've seen photos luckily um it's not something we've had to ever experience with any of the inel knock on wood it's not a very common practice but there are fire protocols and safety like you know disconnects that we install on the outside of the house per code for for that type of situation following fire setbacks for venting of the roof so that's been done I think I don't know which one uh somebody made the comment about being you you just did about it being tasteful I think that was something that they've uh tried to do from day one because I talked to them about putting on the main home that on the main home is where it's going to get the most Sun that you know economically that makes the most sense but they wanted from day one to preserve the look of the home the character of it U running condo through the attic I think the there was a lady at is her name Carol is there another board name Carol Carol Caroline Y and so I like a comment she made uh she wasn't not for it but there were certain protocols and certain things that we maybe and maybe use them as a model home because this really is going to be done in a tasteful way and there's other ways that it could be done that would be a detriment to to looking at you know I install solar and there's certain ones where I'm like yeah I wouldn't probably do that on my house um but this is a situation where it's actually going to look good um and I don't want to throw a monkey wrench but in the F there's products coming out so there's laminate like there's you'll see solar panels where it's the American flag and it's a like a vinyl that you can put over it so you could people could do some crazy kind of design if we're worried about shine that's something I could help and like you know if it really is just coming right at your window and you're getting a migraine we'll come out and do some type of a laminate cover it's not necessary to do but you know no it won't and that that tree and your neighbors is pretty you know umbrella alike for everything so that's what I wondered like how much benefit I looked that up I was I didn't know if you wanted me to answer if that was rhetorical but she's going to be saving $100,000 over 25 period uh she's going from paying 35 cents per kilowatt hour down to 7 cents per kilowatt hour the levelized cost of her solar so the savings are I mean it's all perspective right if that's a large number or not some some people I pay 11 cents do you mhm that's a good deal with clean energy yeah well I'm saying with delivery and Supply charge so both of those charges not just the energy cost um her whole consumption would be 7 cents so pretty good savings the final word these are structures they're large they are projecting from the face of the roof and they're extremely intrusive visually how about your neighbor how about he he puts one on his house you know that's what we're going and that's what everyone could face and we'll be responsible that's what I'm looking at there are people who are out there if we uh allow solar panels they're going to attack us for doing it because their neighbors going to put it right up there where they can see it that's what we're opening up now well we always knew this job was a lose lose job well yeah because nobody appreciates it unless their neighbors doing something but I think what to what Garrett said too I'm trying to weigh both of and my own feelings I think it's it's a matter of fact and I think we're going to have to deal with it on a case-by casee basis from now on and this is not the worst case that we could be dealing with and they're trying they're going to put a lot of pressure on us um you see I think the pressure is already there though yeah the pressure is already there as long as it's not a green Ro like the day the the the standing SE metal green roof that's your biggest we talked about before how Howard Johnson right okay you're emotion um yeah I'll make a motion I'll make a motion to deny that really should I approve say I or no to his motion we have to deny his motion if you want to approve I'm not going to do that somebody else can do that but but we would need a second we need a second not bill has moved to deny I make a motion to deny we need a second I'm not going to Noe okay I move we approve is there a second I second okay roll call vote I say your name Deborah Chi i d stuck ey Willam CLE no R law I so that's uh four VES approved thank you thank you monitors don't go anywhere okay Beverly you live across the street do you want to be a monitor not hard I will also monitor with you easier decision so the two of us so we will issue a certificate of appropriat you notify if you can make any change from what's been approved tonight and you notify when you're completed very ni um 719 429 9 38 okay uh Grange uh replacement proposal replacement of gutters and downspouts at the gra and uh as I understand so the so the we are considering only the uh gutter on the north side of the building which was um paid for with CPA funds and since that gutter would be replaced we have to approve that replacement correct we're considering only the north side of the house building building I've got pictures of the whole building so you can see the roof you broke pictures last time didn't you uh I don't know I sent pictures I wasn't here we only this now shows the gr the rest of the building already has aluminum gutters on it it's sort of a r Goldberg as well as a lot of down spouts headed in every direction yeah and Barbara could you just s your name for the record Barbara Smith I'm president of the Westport range thank you Barbara in your proposal The Proposal that the um um gutter company gave you they specified the replacement boards for the um for the fascia board uh to be um P okay and that doesn't say much yeah it needs to be specified more yeah we I I think we got your recommendation or someone's recommendation here and I think that's a very good recommendation that be replaced with things that are that don't have to be redone well that's it and here I just happen to have a sample with me oh wonderful of of a material that you might suggest well that's great this is fine but it's been treated treated as okay ASAC would be even better okay so um if you want to write these names I will ASAC ASAC I think you sent it in PC IC but this is a brand but you can have equivalent to ASAC what are the relative costs of of these they expensive well it's all expensive when it com down to it because they they said prime fine and um I'm assuming they were referring to this but who knows it has to be specified right so uh yeah they're expensive this is common this is what's being used today on just about all houses uh this is also being used and it's got a 50-year warranty whatever that means so it's a treated wood and it's primed you have to paint it you have to paint it the name again oh this one is claymark or equivalent okay very questions okay but I think the pass to how how um how much of the rotted wood is it that is a good question they have told us that they really won't know until the gutters come off there's a great deal of rotted wood all over the all over the Grange at the moment a great deal of work to be done and the aluminum gutters are going to match the old gutters all of the gutters on the building are going to be replaced with a larger with larger gutters that will be angled in a way that we can um run down spouts in a way that will draw water away from the building instead of having it come back in through the walls it didn't say all of theut we're talking the north side of the building right the only thing that was paid for by the CPA was the the wooden gutter on the north side of the building and that was done because it was historically accurate one thing I'm noticing is that there two gutters on that on that North on the northeast corner and would that be replaced by a there's two down spouts excuse meout two down spouts would that be replaced by a single down spout I'm assuming that it would be I don't know the exact position of all of the down spouts I know that they have proposed that all of the gutters will be angled in such a way that they can have one major down spout I believe in the back and at Each corner okay right now that's my only objection to what's here it's ours too trust me I think that was addressed at the last meeting it was actually it was just a mess now it is a mess the also um specified well it didn't specify it just said a plywood sfet again that should be something that is um durable yes it just just saying plywood is not enough that's very helpful information um the other thing is when public money is being spent on a project I would think you would get more than one bid we have about seven at the moment I sent that one solely because of uh the CH the difference in price between the fiberglass uh gutters that were recommended and the gutters that they're proposing which was $4,000 for that one side of the of the building that so that's the only reason I sent that it's not public money not public money it's replacing public money replacing something was PID public money only reping right one gutter got it any other comments I make a motion will we what we're approving is that we send notice to these CPC saying that we approve this as historically appropriate do you want to read this into the record the recommend uh yes I took the liberty of making form wait do we get a second well we have to first this is the form the actual of how we would make this recommendation okay very good um I don't I don't know that I need to read it no okay just use it as this this is just a a transmittal form that uh we'll send to the uh CPC um depending on the out this okay so there's a motion on the table from R I need a second second de CH i g i William Kendall I I approved thank you you're welcome bar thank you so what do we do to process I think just St uh Betty will tell us okay I'll ask Betty okay any other business you can hand it to me going to talk to you about this I have a question for the comme yes regarding pain color houses and for paint color houses I was out on the water yesterday with my kids that I well for our first trip with and they're very good friends of M uh and we've talked about this a little bit but 1973 main road was repainted to a very particular color of bright yellow oh yes and from the water it is it stands out like a sore fil and we already see it on the road um and my understanding is that Nils picked the color and had thought it was going to be like for like they swore it was light for life what's the process is there a process as as in I think I might be in a butter of sorts potentially you know is there a chance of saying you know this this and and I and I was sort of I was rather I mean from the road I said well that's kind of unfortunate but from the water I have to take it out for wh ride on the river it is very very yeah yeah I I think we need to tighten up our our process and so I I think um you know when people say like for like I mean their idea of of what's like is is different from from ours and and so you know they're different yellows and so yellow is not like but if it's not like for like we have the authority to come back and say this is wrong and you either have to seek a certificate of appropriateness because this is different M or you have to do like for like right so we do have that Authority yeah so so that yeah that that's that's one issue I think I mean well maybe during the monitoring process we could impose that they show us the color when they begin the painting so we can observe whether it's truly like for like and then stop them before they paint the whole house because that seems a little Draconian well we don't do much monitoring of of certificate of non-ability right and I I think I think we need to tighten up our procedure so so I think know if if people are painting their house and they're saying like for like I think we need to have a sample we need to have a sample preferably a sample that is held against the house and photographed um and then you know that would that would prevent this sort of thing from well colors fade too over time right so if they're holding like a Sherman Williams color XYZ against a house that is heard new paint new paint I was also like all the time but turns out the new paint colors don't have the same fade they don't fade the same that old paints do okay um because of the proc I also don't think this is just a question of the original color faded it's just it's just color it's a different color what is is the question can we do anything about it now or is there a process we could make up this sort of I think water under the bridge serve on the commission she's already agreed to serve so now we have to get we'll get Nils to serve okay well it's a good question also for our training with Chris right yes um I'm wondering and we were talking about this issue of a mistake and the bylaws Rob usport um you all should look into what you do about that can you actually just change it because and say the bylaw was incorrect it didn't me state regulations just change it and also you you should check with the mass historic commission and um the other is this parenthetic stuff that you have in there it also is not appropriate so I'm wondering could check that out with mass the swimming pool yes yeah that's that's not appropriate either so I say there's nothing in the law about that right but that's not an exclusion either I mean it's interpreted as such right careful or do you have to go to town meeting this is something that you can check uh you can check the Town Council right about that but right yeah I mean in the in the in in the S law there's there's no provision for excluding the nature of roof materials yeah second is that um bill is given a lot of interesting suggestions and I'm wondering if you could make a list of those suggestions that you add to your guidelines I know that a lot of other commissions do that but they'd be really helpful for all of us especially like in CPC when people come in you know and they do come to you second or sometimes first but mostly second and we really don't know so it'd be really good because then they can look at real prices we're finding that they're underestimating the cost of historic preservation uh we're having um people having to come back and get more funding for example the Historical Society did that the town hall is going to have to do that so that would really be helpful um um what is the proper material that'll last because it's important it'll last yeah we can do that even even window models I you've done a lot of research on that F yeah and the third thing I was asking is um I'm wondering we're not hearing anything about 2015 Main Road and I know that there is uh stuff going on and it's public information is there any possibility that that information could be put on the web page ask for upate on that paron I was going to ask for an update on that too and it should be put on the web page I was just wondering sorry what's going on well I just there are there has been a submission to the court for a trial yeah for a jury trial it's been it's been put on put put on hold basically I think this was subsequent to that to that yeah so I'm just saying that it all of that is public information and I'm asked about it a lot and um but it should come from the commission and you get it from whomever and it'd be really great if there was something um on the web page about that the various documents M so people know what's going on I wonder if we could provide links to documents that are public rather than the documents themselves because some of these documents are large and if they're public we could provide a link like we do the YouTube link so if someone's that interested they can go and click on the link and read the document but I don't think we should be responsible for summarizing because that then interpretation summarizing that's interpretation we're not allowed to do that no we can't not a not a legal matter it's too dangerous yeah one along with with Bill's collection of suitable materials for houses any um appetite for keeping a libr of resources where homeowners from the point District can go to to learn about um either the building types how they were made you know what the sort of the Back stories are on these buildings you know I or having the library have a section of Library that's dedicated to Historic preservation even there's a lot of excellent books that I've come across are used um from libraries around the country when I was doing random window restoration projects to learn how to restore old windows and how to properly blazing techniques and things that I'm personally I'm not going to pay someone to do I'm not going to replace my windows I'm going to repair them um and I and I wish I had those texts and I would happily donate them to the commission um if there was a place um and there might be people in the district that also similarly are interested in sort of old ver buing techniques um and old n techniques for instance for Education yeah I I I bet there other historical commissions that have already set up resource Pages like that so yeah if we can track those I think it would be very helpful to have um a resource page where you know you've approved you you all speak the language of you know this Marvin number whatever but if you that information was available to people at the time when they're talking to contractors and before they fill out the paperwork for you might make your job a little more efficient and it would be inform for people to know they don't have these materials you can say here's what we've been proving here's the kind of things people they don't know they don't come to the meetings they don't really know that I think that that would be useful um if you start publishing if you start putting links for one particular case that you're involved in you know think about um that leading you to have to then always do everybody and whether you want to take on adding to your website over time but do you think we get sued every day I didn't say that wrestle up some volunteers don't it's just something that you haven't dealt past you may decide to do it but you to think forward before you start well think the consequences I have some reservations about it yeah I'd like to know what those reservations are I mean information um is important then the false information isn't out there because there is false information now out there so I'm just if you just and I think the future they should continue doing it if it happens people should know what's going on well I think that's true but do you think this is their job are there other resources provide you for information about what's going because they part think you can check it with with Jim Harman or someone in the town to see if they disagree I doubt it but they might but but I mean it it it it is I mean it it doesn't impose a burden on us to to be current I mean to to you know update these um Pages as as information comes out and uh and I mean you say we're part of it but in a way we're not part of it I mean we we made our decision this is this is the neighbors lawyers versus the pool boy no no I'm speaking of the Town yeah the town yeah versus the the 2015 now aren't you a party to that lawsuit no oh she's not a part the neighbor the neighbors aren't a party to that there there is a party but I'm not part of it oh okay I'm withdrawn from it you withdrawn from it okay okay well we'll uh we'll take your suggestions whatever some yeah some very good suggestions thank you thank you guys any other items if not your motion I will be stepping off commission I've been on here eight years I don't think any with the exception maybe a bill we're not sure has been on that law and um it's time every you know every Commission in town needs needs somebody so it's time to do something else plus the fact that all these people that we talk about are my neighbors and you know it's one thing if you live outside the district and you're making these you know but it's very hard you know the next have you found what's that have you found success and I'll stay on you know I I mean and also Ursula if she comes on and Caroline she comes on so and um Ward moving I said he would love to so if I get all those people in place I will that' be great Beverly's been great at recruiting some folks so hopefully we'll enlarge the commission soon but thank you for staying as long as possible yes after tonight I'm not sure I mean that but yeah it's hard it is when your a neighbor are before you I move we a Jour ni secondly Beverly start us off with vote Beverly sh de [Music] ey I need thank you everyone