##VIDEO ID:nVXvFrWiEiE## all right all set I'm just noticing that we don't have nearly as many microphones as we usually haveed I think they're all hooked up yeah I don't think those are yeah just use the these yeah do these work um I think that we're playing around I don't really I'm not charge of Chang but I think the labs will work oh you have so you don't and for people here maybe this one seems I'll see if I can I'll come okay this uh meeting of the Westport historical commission is now open uh first item uh sorry the um voting members present are Katrina Str Beverly sh de Chi William Kendall jar stuck Moone and that's that's seven and then we also have a non voting alternate member cther um first item with business is the minutes of August 28th August 28th was a special meeting it was a training session um and uh justed ver ify I have a list of people who were there um cther were you on I was on yes yeah not the recent one one Carol were you on that meeting it was by that was the design review meeting no okay so um you on that meeting Beverly you were there you were there yes krina and was there okay so um from the draft minutes okay then we have to add Ward we have to add Ward and take out Caroline and take out Caroline okay any other comments changes on on those minutes okay motion to as amended second okay um let's do uh let just do a Voice vote all in favor all oppos okay the motion passes second can you send me uh the same without the draft on it um the U second item is Treasures report and uh I'm doy as treasur so I can report that the balances are um as of October 4th General expense account $1,483 the town Farm expense account has $1,400 in it uh the trust funds the whc trust fund has $1,622 18,154 and what's notable here is that we actually had a $2,844 credit uh I don't know exactly what that was but somebody a third party told me a few months ago that there was uh going to be an anonymous donation to the town trust so how much that $2,844 wonderful yeah so wow the wolf pits School trust has 82240 motion to approve the treasur report second Your Voice vote all in favor oppos G can we amend the um agenda because the September 9th minutes are not going to be considered tonight they be considered on the next meeting okay yes okay the uh next item is a application for certificate of hardship for 2015 Main Road and um this application has been withdrawn we have a letter from Mr Bron's lawyer um withdrawing the application uh without prejudice um meaning that uh they could apply for significant of hardship in the future but at least we are relieved of the um continuation process so we are required to to vote on a um on a withdrawal and uh we're required to vote to accept it and it's Town council's opinion uh that that's all we can do is is vote to accept it make a motion to withraw accept to accept the withdrawal of the certificate of hardship motion to accept the withdrawal point of order what would happen just to question GRE old historic district resident what would happen if you voted not to accept yeah well that's a no I'm just curious because it brings up other things it does bring up other things I'm not advocating that it's just a question yeah I mean basically we would have to continue the next step which is okay so thank you um okay so we have a motion from Bill to um accept the withdrawal a second second by Bly let's do a Voice vote krina krina Str I Beverly shook I deel I William Kendall eyck ey L Rooney ey Caroline bker ey okay the motion and the uh motion to withdraw to accept the withdrawal is accepted is passed okay um next item number 2026 Main Road application for certificate of non-applicability to the place two Sky the Slate is here do you want to say anything about it I mean it's I think it's pretty straightforward but maybe you can just explain basically the same size and she provided pictures which I circulated to the commission right and it seems to me that you can't actually see those from Main Road is that correct no I didn't realize that until I went out to take the picture yeah but I I I took a picture um yesterday from from the bridge and uh they're they're pretty I they're dist kind of hard to see so can't see them I think the one difference probably is is that there's a solar small solar the bottom and a little slightly 1991 okay and I just want to confirm you're Barbara SLE correct yes all right thank you just for the minutes sorry um anyway uh is there a motion or discussion any discussion of The Proposal everybody seen the pictures I don't think there's any problem with it yeah the existing the existing SKS weak or they just older um are they are they are they fixed no1 they just weren't very good and part of them broke on the inside so anyway would be like for like right like solar element on the bottom and these just have a the solar component the rain sensor that here where it closes whens FL okay motion to approve can I ask one more question what is the it describes in the cut sheet a neat coating on the outer pan I presume that's some kind of cing on them is it just change all or does it matter p a great product they well just didn't know if anyone knew about the the coding sometimes there's different U codings does it change the here of them I think given the fact that the just can be viewed from the bridge public way it's not private way the neat is a term of art it's it's all capitalized letters so it must mean some sort of product they've created neat it stands for something it's an acronym it's TM next to it trademark according to Google it's an Ence uh it's a coding that removes de breze actually it's not a it's not a ref it's it's probably something like RX it's for um that the coding that is on the outer pane that makes cleaning reduces cleaning frequency here we go sounds good sounds good so we were in the middle of voting uh was there was there a motion I made a motion to appr motion was there a second I second seconds uh let's just do voice question public comments huh it's not actually public hearing but I'll go ahead no just informally um when you go on the town of Westport website first thing that pops up is your house in a picture and it's a main house that had an l and then another addition perfectly telescoped project I did maybe 15 20 years but advertising my my point no my point is is that if you look at the house just to the South if you're walking down the point you can see what's sort of become the New Order where houses go back and then they take a 90 Dee and then you go back again and so I just that's we left behind okay I'm done thank you so uh we're in the middle of voting uh all those in favor say I I I all those opposed okay motion passes so I'll be preparing your certificate for you and it'll go to the building department okay next item uh preliminary reviews of which there are none uh and then we have General business monitors reports okay few monitors reports um I went and took photographs of several uh four of them of the various um projects that have been in process so the uh first one is the church I have a photograph now of the window that was replaced that photograph into the that project is complete I'll also update the monitor report schedule that you and I share so that was 1912 Main was the church and then uh 1958 solar project it was the one we had several meetings and discussions and a site review and that's now fully installed as well as gutters and copper down spouts that are around Copper down spouts and this is a that was um installed on the L that is telescoped down from the main house and they have a dark roof and it it really does blend in I can show you some photographs while we put in in the file and I know we had a lot of discussion on the panel about on the commission about not liking solar and in the district but I think this installation it does it does look okay because of the way they put it in away from the main road away from the main house and when you're walking up Main Road you really don't notice it unless you're looking for it so it's it's it's it's as good as it gets I for Sol um and the next one I looked at was uh 1893 main is in process it's the Owens burns house which has um an addition going is a second story going on to another building that's part of their complex and that is under construction so I just did a progress shot of that it has a tarp on it and you can see the structure what it's going to look like but no finishes at all yet what number and that's 1893 M and then the last one I looked at was 1898 which is Rino and they're putting in some new windows and painting replacing fascia and painting so they're in progress but it's it's coming along the a lot of the windows are in and it's consistent with what we approved so I'll put a progress uh photo in the file as well so that's the monage reports that I have at this point did you have a couple that you looked at to No I um Russell Baker yeah he called me but I haven't been down there yet to look at it but you know he was just beginning it when he called so in progress son anyway yeah the one reping the doors that was 1913 drift yeah I think they had the garage doors replaced I didn't notice it but I did have a question about 2038 Garrett yes um are you satisfied that that's a one foot elevation so Bill and I actually visited the site this morning and went over everything with the with the Builder and the architect and uh I think we were satisfied I mean there's there's one one change that I think wasn't uh well we didn't understand it anyway one was presented here and that is that the the U the the length of the sided part of the structure will be 6 in more than it was because the the sill is is wider and so there'll be more shingled wall but it's just 6 in I I think that we need to be clearer maybe it's a vague thing when we say when we prove a 1ot elevation 1ot from what because that Foundation is you know two three feet foundation on that well there was a found Foundation there before the addition of the S I think the addition of quite high and so visually ends up being 18 inish maybe I think the floor I mean he said the floor the floor of the house is still just a foot well actually we scaled it up we we measured it we measured where the original sill would be uh and what what's there is 6 in higher there 6 in more wall right now because of that a large um Sil that was built it's a Well the sill is built with a contemporary framing with a box um frame like you would build a new house in order to get put the floor joist in um and um also we found it was quite interesting was when they put the foundation in they they put notches in in the concrete foundation so if the house had to be raised up again because of rising of the water that just beams would be just SL slid underneath those heavy that's why they use the heavy um Sills the heavy box the new structure and right but what you're going to see is the shingles are going to go down below that box sill and then there's going to be eight Ines of Stone Face okay there will be a face on yeah on that right yeah so I think right now it looks it looks the grading will be graded up yeah the grading will the grading is going down now but it's going to be changed so it's going going up I take your point that perhaps in the future we be very clear about what one foot change to where and measure from what point you know in terms of the final height of the house the structure and the other I think I without being unconstitutional um if if it's possible to put a beginning middle and end kind of thing on a project so that it can't go on at nauseum um years and years say you know if you run out of money whatever happens but we've got a couple now at least one very prominent one that is yes it's under seasoned assist but is there a way that we could you know get a compromise with people to say you know give you got to give us a range you well I think I think the building permits the building permits are are good for two years two years that's a limit yeah okay so I think we've used that as a limit yeah I didn't know once the building permit is issued right because it has to a new building permit would have to be come before us yeah I don't know if there's an explicit limit on our certificates do you know bud me do you know if there's a specific time limit on this certificate no certificate it's un I I don't know I don't remember let me look we always we all we we've always used the the building inspectors two years Mark yeah as far as I know but I guess I guess you couldn't in theory get a certificate wait five years and then try and go building for that right so probably yeah but wouldn't the implication be if they want to continue to raise the house presumably because of global warming and Rising Seas they would have to reapply oh yeah I mean they can't just keep notching it out because well I've got a Stairway here yeah yeah no it's it's it's a longterm plan um the the other the other thing that that uh that they talked about was that a lot of the structure in the house was was really um in poor condition and so they've had to take out a lot of the structure lot inside the main it doesn't look like there's going be much left there's there's not much left very detail yeah but but uh I mean I guess Bill and I were convinced that they were they were doing the best they could they're they're planning actually we looked at 2040 as well this morning and uh originally they were going to replace the windows they were going to put reproduction windows in now they're having them restored by someone here in Westport which is yeah which is a good resource for people on the point Simon Simon yeah um and then in 2038 they're having those I think are all going to be reproduction um which one is the the main house the the back house the back house they're restoring they're restoring those okay well three of them I four of them and the main house the ones that were original to the 18th century there are some original 18th centuries on that structure those are being restored including the frames themselves the the pl Motors and ten and Frames but on the main house also changing by adding certificat expir in 24 months 24 months you he that if no building permit is required the certificate shall expire 24 months after the issuance of the certificate or upon the sale or transfer of the property whichever comes first can't transfer and if a building permit is required really let me see if I can find it yes that is like what happened about the front window are they changing the window are they adding a window yes they do they did they find the evidence inside one previously there isn't any evence that was what was discussed there isn't any evidence because it's all new framing what's new Oh you mean it was on the inside well the it has a the construction of the building is plank Frain right which means the vertical boards go from the plate to the sill that has been removed and they have a Victorian framing in there and so there's no evidence of where that window would have been speaking of 2038 so what is the reason that they're able to add a window if there's no evidence that there was you proved it I know but I thought that they said pretty clearly that they would look for evidence kit why said that look for evidence and let you know there was we saw it today there was no evidence because it been refrained that that part of the wall refrained sometime we look for that so I think it's it's done it you don't have a photograph of the house back in 18 or whenever the Victorian there's no way to know sometimes if there dra there is reg again I actually wanted to speak to sh introducing 2040 because I've been watching that particular project now since they started putting it in today I noticed that there's a whole lot of plywood that's been put up on the west facade and I'm wondering how much more vertical planking is going to be removed from the building and plywood put up regardless of reproduction windows that are being put in because eventually all we end up with is a brand new house with reproduction windows that is effectively um demolition of an existing building we've had one of these four that was rebuilt on the point we had one that I worked with with Betty slave um where a whole building was taken down with one corner post left up and this looks to me like I'd like to know what the members of the commission think about this but it's looking like that's what's going to happen with this building yeah so they didn't we didn't discuss the plywood specifically but I but they didn't have to take out the um the beam second floor beam across the front of the house because it was it was totally roted um so I think the plywood is is probably there in part to stabilize it that's what you're seeing when you look from the road yes you're seeing that framing in there but that's on the inside of the house and we have no jurisdiction over anything inside this building so any of that structure inside that plywood cheating say is on the inside well whatever the ply I'm talking about the studs no I'm not talking about the studs well I'm talking about that vertical sheathing has been removed on the west side of the house and there was plywood in place right now there there's a reason the typical way to do this in the historic district as you all know is to say well these boards are rotten we're going to put up playw with these are rot we're going to put up play with and when does it end I just that had occurred to anyone else that this might be what's going on there did you notice whether whether the the vertical shoting been removed was part parts of it was the upper part had the vertical sheing still intact and they were had to remove the vertical sheeting to do the framing and they were apparently matching it with plywood rather than replacing it with vertical shaing I don't see anything wrong with plywood it's going to be hidden under there what you're going to see is a reproduction of what was there yeah well that's my point is we could I'm not accusing the commission of anything I'm just saying that this is how you get a new house in a historic district it's been done before and it's happening right before our eyes and once again the the building was not looked at carefully to see what was there uh maybe it was I I don't want to say anything like that but I've just been watching this thing it's got brand new everything and it's going to be a brand new house it's going to be like a Resto mod you know where you have an old Corvette but everything's brand new and it looks like something but it's for all intents and purposes the historic structure is vanished well what what would you what would you have them save um I would have had I would had them save and preserve the original building what does that what does that mean exactly well what that means is if you have a rotten piece of sill you replace it if you have a rotten Girt you replace it but you're keeping the authentic building which is the Armature for all the authentic stuff that's inside of it the paneling the dos the hinges everything else I mean been I've done this professionally for most of my life yeah no I'm just I'm just trying to I mean because but but I'm saying that that's but that's also client driven and so I I see your position in all of this but so it's it's like we're we're supposed to be doing more than just making it look like what it was we're supposed to be preserving what's there and preservation is a lot more involved and a lot more intricate than just removing stuff and putting up plywood for the sake of something and then putting up so it's it's like building a brand new building that has beautifully made by Simon newbie or on the front of M over in the dart Windows it becomes a reproduction which is very different from a preservation and eventually we all might just be witnessing the reproduction of Westport Point with all new enties I guess just I just put this up for think you're right BR and and those are really good points and you know I think that we weren't told all this at the beginning when it was approved you know and then oh whoops you know we find something rotted and and and all of a sudden you're right it can get just be the show and well I I would say that that was once again done by intent by the applicants just throwing that out but that we need as a as a community to start being aware that that's probably going to be the agenda for so many buildings down here in the district yeah and we might want to be a little more on guard for that that's all i' like to say I'm here to support you that's why the ch plan T like road several of us here look at this house every day and I think we've all noticed that it's uh goes forward in slow motion like really slow motion with Windows removed and everything encouraging further deterioration the whole time I hear a male a little while later another na then nothing and then for days nothing so I just my observation is that there was this is not the way it's supposed to be moving you're right because every time I go down there as a monitor to check on it I see nothing done um or also a house hanging up in the air someone even posited that they were waiting for a hurricane to come to wipe it out while here's the um these houses on the point are magnificent and that particular house was very nice but we have no jurisdiction over what's inside and I got in there first thing to look at what it was like inside and there was a by well I got in there and there was a full crew of people demolishing the interior okay we have nothing to say about it but I was there just to check on it and take some photographs myself of the woodwork there's a wall of 18th century paneling in there two walls one upstairs and one in the main room um there was a wonderful stairway a small stairway wow sweet where'd you get that Zillow because I can't find pictures anywhere else well anyway so I I said of course I said well well isn't that wonderful it's stunning I mean it's just wonderful well and I said well well that's just a wonder is these houses I have just was going on about how preserving these things were so important well anyway all the plaster was taken off of the walls all the character is going to be just shoot Rock on the walls inside um two walls of paneling are going to be left left that's all no window trim no original plaster um the actual shape of the interior of the house will be changed because of the insulation on the walls so you'll have you know less room inside because the original house had plank frames but actually it this after the plaster was removed you can see that it had um Victorian studs were put in and some sheating had been put in in place of the plank framing so that was done at in the 1800s so um sadly for me who's been in the restoration business trying to preserve these houses this is most difficult and I don't want to go into these houses again because I went there today and I talked to the Builder and I said well oh of course you saved that wonderful stairway no it's gone oh okay and we have nothing to say about that at all so that's what's happening on the point our our purview doesn't cover it unfortunately we can't no do this and and it's a shame because other districts do restoration and preservation that's not what this project Al per cover can we have it as a discussion to discuss how special the character of these houses are as a way to encourage people to preserve them because this commission you know folks like you buil especially your knowledge is not something that everyone has and being able to talk to why the interior of these homes is also commission may carry at least some may some weight if if the conversation happen so when when houses are come up for ref we have no perview of the inside the discussion about the import of the inside characteristics and what makes the inside characteristics of these properties different from those of you know that are built today well that would be very good but I tried my initial visit I tried but as you can see it got nowhere and the problem is I don't think we have people in this town I mean PE Baker's gone so you have no one with any knowledge of how to restore an antique house so there's no one to go to uh people who in the point who wanted to do something wonderful for their house could go to her but um I think that if people wanted to those experts could be sought out I think the challenge is that we there are people purchasing homes that don't value right the you know the age of the home and what it means I grew up in a home that was built in 1720 I miss that home living in a brand new construction home which I don't live in however living in a brand new construction home it just doesn't even come close to the character of an older home an antique home but if people don't value that there's nothing that we could do to instill that they either value it or they don't and the way that you know doc Curtis's house was done or right I mean it's just it's unfortunate something that might help that I was given a while ago gave this I think to Mr branka at one point but um and we can distribute copies of it it covers about maybe 40 50 houses on the point and just gives a very Consolidated history of you know Captain's Christopher Davis's house or whatever it is and how it got built and all that which we could you know hand out to people as they come to us morning to do repairs you or maybe we give it to the Realtors who are trying to the to begin with or give it to the homeowners to the buyers or the potential buyers I think David oh did he oh okay well this is brilliant then and everybody should have a copy of this when they I just one addition you shouldn't hesitate to be able to talk about these issues because you are both a historical commission and a historic district commission so as a historic district commission you look at the outside building but a historical Mission you can talk about the inside so I wouldn't hesitate to to try to do that and to try to write up various things to to give to the uh real estate agents some of them really care some don't but at I own house we restored the the old part of the house um it's very expensive to restore and to keep these old windows is very very hard it's expensive they Le they don't go up and down there's so many issues and people come in and completely gut houses they are just very few left at the point there is a a way to save the interior too I know on N Tu where they have those houses right along the border and some owners have actually said that if you buy this house you can't change the interior yes or the exterior do that legally rest the owner do it goes with the deed right um we could actually suggest that to that's something you could put out there too that if people want to protect the interior they should put a restriction on it it just lowers the value it does lower the value for a lot of people for some people it raise it if you get the right person interesting one good thing was that the fireplace structure is still there they were bringing Stones up by the armful so I don't know what they were bringing the stones up from they were re they were they were Shoring up you talking about the foundation the main house yeah yeah so so there's there's a big different we we went into both houses today the the back house in the main house in the main house they they are keeping the framing and um and the house is is a bit underbuilt so they're having to Sister the joist and and things like that um but they they've um had a mason in there to to shore up the base of the the chimney and fireplace uh I think they're doing in the main house exactly what you all would like them to do we all would like them to do um well except for the removal of the of the stairway the main house okay yeah was good but uh in in that in that house in back I mean you know I think it probably was in very poor condition and probably really hard to save um I was there initially to see that as as it was just opened up so I got to see the entire thing what it looked like before any demolition was done on it and it was very very slightly framed the framing members were not what you would find in a very substantial house um and the condition was very poor I think they're they're saving they're saving what they could I think they're trying and I think that they got into something where again you know you look at a a girt that's running across like that front Girt they had to replace and you look at it from the inside and then you start looking at it from the other side you start seeing that there's a big raded area in it and it goes from one side to the other what do you do you're you're not going to there would be no reason to get a handh beam at a salvage yard and put it in when it's all going to be covered up outside and inside as well I think of Williamsburg if you look at the old photographs of the restoration of Williamsburg uh those houses they were right down to the frames and everything else is new I mean there's reproduction plaster and some of the woodwork was saved in those wonderful houses interior woodwork but like window frames and all of that most of that is is new it looks wonderful but that's Williamsburg I guess we have Williamsburg North here where everything is going to be new thank you um I share Bill's um frustration um it's heartfelt frustration um and I think the point that be brought up is brilliant if only as a last like I'm only got this much time left but I can put a de restriction on my house is I think an extraordinary thing because it's what's turned out is in theet the authentic buildings are the ones that have the most value um this isn't something down here with the pressure we have on the south coast um that's going to sway a realtor or someone who just wants a nice house by the water and put in a dock and lifestyle and that gets to the thing where where does the original house or the interior begin once again to builds many points is is it just behind the shingles is it the sheathing now when you talked about um 2038 in both these houses Survived Hurricane Carol hurricane 38 Edna I mean all the ones um sound like all my grandmother's friends but the so when they're under framed they're actually I mean a a vertically planked building is extraordinarily rigid in both vertical load and deflection um it's just how they built them the fact that they're now reframing the whole interior of of the front house which they have every right to do is because they want they the the you can't live in these old houses unless you have AC everything else so they're stutting out the walls to pack in cellulose whatever it is and put everything in it and we have no U control over that of course but we never thought that what was going to happen and I think in every historic district was that this is the kind of thing that was going to happen to these buildings that we love and so maybe all we get to do now as a community is to speak to this and just Endeavor to there are a lot of people who still do this work I know them I could do it myself but that if we do find someone we can find people that will help them do that because the other thing I hear is can't find anyone to do this work but there are there a whole another generation uh that's coming up that's doing this theel Allen just one right there so much work he can't see straight but anyway I empathize with the situation I lived in a 1730 salt box for many years it had wonderful rais paneling in all the rooms Upstairs Downstairs fireplaces large fireplace and the walls were planked in Oak the framing was all Oak the planks were that thick you know inch and a quarter Oak that wide comp um nailed with big spikes um the the um clab birs were installed right on that Oak plank the plaster laugh single strip pieces were nailed on with little hand rate rot nails and plastered I had no Insulation at all no place to run wires anything else like that and it wasn't cold it heated very well because I got it very tight and it was a wonderful house to live in it had all of its original plaster all you know so it had the surface Wayne scating and panel Wings scating Around the rooms um the original stairway yeah all the hardware the doors it was wonderful now you can recreate that feeling in a house if you had any sensitivity from the houses that have lost those things people can make that um you can recre create I've recreated the plaster simple you use today you use blue board and struct the light Blaster and you try to make it as smooth as you can it looks just like the original plaster and I've matched walls like that on some houses I've restored I ran a Restoration company but I was mostly a consultant and designer so I worked with people who did the restoration anyway that's my story and that's why I'm frustrated after my visit today okay any other monitors reports did get better information on time limits want to hear um time limits upon receipt of a certificate for work that requires a building permit the applicant must apply for the building permit within 12 months from the DAT of the certificate is issued or must submit a new application if a building permit is obtained in that time period the certificate remains valid for as long as the building permit remains open if no building permit is required the certificate shall expire 24 months after the issuance of the certificate or upon the sale or transfer of the property whichever comes first okay so so two years of no building permit is required three years effectively y it is y because you've been wait a year to get the per okay great and we can extend them so if the building permit is descended how long do they have that's a good question I don't think it's in the in the rules and rights never has would well he did I mean he he basically said that he gave a improper building permit to a particular property so the question is um there's also there is no building how much time do the people have to do what I mean have no certificate or building permit so there's no clock interesting okay sorry no that's okay I mean there there is some wording in here that maybe we look at at a separate time okay um next item discussion of the meeting schedule for 2025 I just wanted to get ahead of this it's maybe a little early but um did everyone get a copy of yeah of the dates so what's that I basically these are these are all um they're all first Mondays except um except Monday May 12th because I know I'm going to be gone on May 5th and so I'm proposing we have to meet May on the 12th uh and then September 1st is Labor Day so um we can't meet on Labor Day so I'm suggesting September 8th uh the other thing I want to note is I will be away 3 and there's not a good date to change that to so I hope you'll be there February 3rd yes meeting I think so great are you suggesting we change it or not or we leaving no we're leaving it's just my note yeah you you will be here I won be okay any uh comments suggestions nice to have planning it's great okay yes wanted to have a brief discussion about if it's we can do this even though the hearing is closed but in general about um subsection C okay so let's finish let's finish with the dates first I I don't know that we need to take a vote take a vot let's vote on it sure so do I hear a motion I move we accept the dates second okay all in favor I all opposed motion carries okay next item on the agenda come back to oh thank you um discussion of collapse building app Point uh I don't have much news about it except that it's been water as I think everyone knows was was in Shor lines um I think there is um there is a time limit on on how long the owner has to to restore it to its um former State and that that's 30 days from there was a an agreement between the town and the owner um that uh the owner would have 30 days to restore to we are in that days from when it was retried from the water what's that 30 days from when it was retrieved from the water no 30 days it was I think it was an agreement reached before before a judge but our interaction has been zero with this owner correct uh the Ralph Souza has kept me in the loop so you know he he's called me a few times and he says this is what's going on what does the historical commission need to do but we don't have any official role yet we don't Betty suggested to me the other day that that this building actually is not in the historic district because it's built over the water it's it is it is not in the historic district it is not anything the historic map you see you all know that it ends at the water's edge was it on no I wouldn't put that one on the wall because one wall count no it doesn't count for the whole building this is an issue throughout the state there are a lot of historic districts but have one building half of it's in the historic district half of it isn't this is an issue you just don't have the authority over it so we don't have a over it anyway they just keep in the loop but you're historic commission so as historical commission you have I think the right and should be consulted about it because it is a historic building it's just not a historic district issue yeah and and I'm I'm I'm not I'm not even sure about that Betty I mean I know that's your I know that's your opinion it's not mine it's the state I mean you well but you're you're rendering an opinion about that particular building if the building whether whether whether any part of it is in the historic district well if that part would be like one wall one wall right yeah so um anyway I'm not ready to say that we have no jurisdiction over it but but uh the building inspector has been keeping me in the loop and and uh the court is involved in some way so you just keep an eye on so the status just to review is they took it out of the water and it's sitting somewhere on land pending restoration of some I think they I think they have 30 days to get it back into position on its original location on its original location now I don't know how strict that is I mean I wasn't part to that agreement but and or when that date starts yeah I don't I don't recall exactly 30 days isn't a long time anyway it's it's you know it's it's with the building commission and the town um because the town wanted to remove it all together and uh and so that's what the 30-day window is about instead of the Town being a to remove itot remove so let me ask a question since it's in the since the commission has perview over it it's not a historic building in the district but if they wanted to demolish it would we have a role to get a demo permit if it's on the register it's on the register so it's not on the register yes it is on register historic asset so then we would have but it's not within the historic district you figure that bet is it is it on the is it on the macas is it recorded in Boston I think it is but I'd have to look you could look right now you know what the site is got 2065 so it actually has an address particular building proper the whole property okay so it's probably listed as whatever I would think the town would ask your opinion I would think you should be involved they have this surprises me really well he has been consulted I mean they keep you informed they should keep you completely informed and you can inform the commission but I don't think no they haven't made it just one of those things no it's it's been a challenging P it's Challen the house in MA the whale station in Ma and the war itself is there unless it's misplaced and I can look in that in that if you look at the card card associated with yeah often there's for wp40 okay um so anyway that's that's the little that I have to rep but it's it's good that that at least um the building inspector is keeping us in okay any other topics I just have one thing that I think we if if we don't know about it's a good resource this woman Jennifer Dy do you know her she's she is the um she's with massis yeah she's programs coordinator and she sends me these bulletins updates from the Massachusetts historical commission and they have a lot of resources there they have virtual workshops and everything else so and I I talked to her about different questions so maybe just using that as a resource too I'll give this this is the this is theist that's the list that anybody can join and I would actually recommend everybody join it these just come out perod once a month or something are you famar with this no not at all so there there's a there's a list serve uh I think it's called Mass masus PR and um it's a basically it's an email list where people discuss historical issues with historical buildings and this looks like a newsletter just aint an update yeah so that's right and so um Jennifer doy works for the state and I mean there's there are all sorts of programs they grants available they're they virtual virtual and actual physical shs that uh that take place she's just a good resource I talked to her about you know solar things and what other towns were doing I think Salem was the only one who was even doing anything but um she's very accessible and she's lovely so and you can post questions to this meing list okay you can say you know we have we have an issue with solar in our historic district what have you done and people will chy in all sorts of great information you can also just talk to her directly I mean not just through the through her through her directly and she's she's the first one who's been so responsive and she can direct you to other but they are very very busy people they have very few resources at Mass historic commission but one of the things is the the grants there are various grants that come out that historical Commission consider I'd love to know who gave the $20,000 donation a lovely lovely things we could thank that person okay um Greg you wanted to say something oh yeah there's something that I've been talking about what's that so horrified would it be okay that that we have everyone on the commission is here we have a very small group to have a quick discussion about our three certificates that we award and my first thing would be because at our your first hearing a certificate for hardship was withdrawn and is everyone very clear as to probably why that was with on because I not I can I just we're not going to discuss any particular case no I'm not I want to go and and we we actually we actually just had a training uh about a week ago okay and one of the topics of the training was certificates and hardship and so we we did discuss so what okay so and you're you're welcome to um I mean that that the video of that training has not been posted yet you're wel to do that okay now and then I had a question of if an applicant exhausts all three certificates like three strikes you're out what then happens with the permitting that's been given to a project or has that been discussed and I missed it well a building permits may not be issued without a certificate from the histor well I know that I'm not sure what the question okay there's a case which has repeatedly come before this commission that's now had three applications denied the only three applications that this commission can give out so applicability nonability that's not technically correct you just said hardship application has been withdrawn and we agreed tonight we voted to allow that to happen so it's been withdrawn doesn't mean it won't come back it may okay so it's it's withdrawn without prejudice so he could return with another hardship application some point in future we don't know okay Point Tak thank you I mean just to just to be specific there is no application currently before the commission for 2015 Ro so that's that's where we are um but uh I think I'm not comfortable discussing further it wasn't on the agenda and and I would suggest if you want to have a discussion about General discussion about these things you know let me know we'll put it on the agenda and um no I just the fact that you went through workshop with it you probably figured out the same stuff I did yeah and and I I can sh so one one of the examples of a of a certificate of hardship uh would be say a um a case where a resident needed a ramp and that would be um case where you might issue a certificate of hardship because it wouldn't be appropriate so you wouldn't issue a certificate of appropriateness but there's a hardship there's something very specific to that particular building um that was a health and safety issue and sa you the ability to issue that kind certific but what I found really profound reading it over and over and over again was that let's say there's a situation where there's a big old house and part of it had a approved in-law let's say apartment carved into it but for that to and that was the way that the family could afford to help someone in the family but then the the fire department and the building department said okay but we want fire escape because of means of egress then you go well as the fire is the fire escape the thing is the fire escape would be granted a certificate of hardship because although it may be detrimental to the building it is not detrimental to the district and that I think is what's key the whole thing hopefully what came out in your Workshop because it can do much bigger things but the key as I Now understand it is that it's non detrimental detrimental to the district and that that's the measure for anything that would be in that category I think it's also clear that a lot of people think that hardship has to do with it also has to have a couple of other criteria which I think was shown very clearly I thought that was very helpful I watched this thing so I think it was very helpful and we're going to post the link on the website we have the link so it'll be available to anyone who wants to watch it should be announced to neighborhood association yeah I think the meeting was announced no I'm speaking of the fact that it's going to be posted it' be good be people could see it okay okay uh anything else motion to adjourn no no no there's one more thing that's why I'm here topic not c 3 C oh recommendation to have me on the CPC I think she's very anxious to have that put okay I I missed there two C's actually okay um yes so so uh currently I am the historical commission re to the community preservation Commission and um I would like to uh resign that role and recommend that that uh Deborah Chi become the Theon to the community preservation commission I accept so pending the vote of this commission okay is there motion to approve p is there any anything else we need to discuss or no no okay well how you going to do it write a letter yes so so we needel board will make the final vote no they just well basically we we need need a motion um to that we will recommend debor chy as the historical commission lays on to the community preservation commission so second okay all in favor hi all oppos motion congatulations thank you okay what else is on the agenda motion to I just read the agenda okay we have a motion toour bill I second all in favor I