this is our normal monthly meeting of the landing commission except at the moment we don't have a quorum so we won't be deciding anything but if you've been to earlier meetings sometimes we don't decide anything anyhow we just talk about stuff we will scar with the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands One Nation God indivisible and justice for all it is great for me to see all of you it is rare we've had planning meetings for the last two years on this subject that are rarely attended by anyone so I guess the news people are reading newspapers that's great uh we do have an agenda for tonight's meeting but as I said it's not an official meeting at this point and the first person on the agenda is not even here she's probably at Town Hall well I sent her a message and she'll learn or not but she'll survive it's just someone applying to have yoga at the head Landing so we will move right in to a public comment on the Hicks brbd Landing I will start my name is Jeff bull I'm the landing commissioner I this started back in July 2021 when I realized there'd be Federal funding coming after Co to potentially help the town around the idea of reconstructing the seriously failing boat ramp at the hixbridge Landing as you may be aware that boat ramp was built many decades to go in three sections and the final section that is in the water most of the time is now partially failing and could fail at some point which would then take potentially years to rep permit drag the cement out of the water and rebuild uh so it's better to plan ahead so we don't have the Westport version of providence's Washington Bridge um so realizing the availability of federal I approached the Town Administrator Jim hartnet about partnering with the select board to renovate and improve the hixbridge landing that Landing is mostly the select board's Landing The Landing commission has responsibility for the grassy part across the road across the bridge part of the driveway but most of what we're talking about is really the select board's responsibility and they wanted help with that so we we were we stepped in to help with that cuz we know some things about Landings and we know who to turn to sometimes for more information about Landings um we interviewed multiple users we did some potential drawings of possibilities we studied the current use and conditions and came up with a basic design proposal that was in July of 2021 uh the idea was for both commercial which there is a lot of in this town using that landing and recreational purposes we wanted to rebuild the boat ramp we wanted to pre-treat storm water runoff which is huge there the river is getting filled with silt regularly um to improve sea level resistance and climate resilience for the next multiple decades and for a source of funding and have better parking safety and also handicap access somebody handicap access and we have a member of the handicap commission great good timing the disability commission I'm sorry uh so I we put together October 21 a Massachusetts Seaport Council application they fund massive projects along the coast for Massachusetts we are a small project from their point of view uh and presented to them they like projects to come in two phases phase one is design and engineering and phase two is construction we thought we would need about $95,000 to the design and permitting and had no idea what it would cost to build it um we were granted $76,000 by the seport council because they do require matching funds the town disability commission pitched in five grand which was great we thank them and representative Schmid got us $50,000 in an amendment to the ACT relative to covid-19 recovery and we will end up if we build this using some of that money for matching funds going ahead uh that was in November 21 in February the seaport Council gave us the $75,000 again this project is relatively small they do things like rebuilding the Waterfront in Salem Massachusetts um uh we then put out to bid for engineering we considered three engineering companies they were all knowledgeable people uh we interviewed them and we chose GZA construct uh engineering who appointed Ryan deont who's sitting here with us tonight as the project leader that was in August of 22 so you can tell these things take a long time to make it happen since then we've been refining the plan which we're presenting today uh depending on input from you we will probably have a public response period we haven't talked about how long that should be but that's something we'll figure out uh if there are serious considerations coming out of this meeting uh but once we've come to what we think is a final plan we will go to the select board and tell them what we think is worth moving ahead with and then we will start applying for grant money to build it um at best I would guess construction might start in 2026 so this is far away uh we do look forward to your input um there is one letter from an a butter which I'd like to read quickly we did set up an online response and I think it's worth reading because there may be some general publicness understanding of what we anticipate even though there's a drawing there uh to whom it may concern I'm an autter of the Hicks bribri Landing I've read the proposed improvements I'm in favor of improving the landing but I have concerns I'd like to address with the commission the first is fire I've heard you will be adding picnic tables I hope campfires and charcoal cooking are not allowed my family has lived above the landing for 67 years I am very aware of how windy it gets on top of that hill and how fast and out of control fire would travel up the hill to my home it is even more of a concern because people are there all hours of the night driving in and out spinning wheels Etc these are not people fishing off the bridge or coming in late with their boats I hope it is patrolled at night as the town policemen have done in the past what is your plan for the South Side do you plan to enlarge the parking area by digging out more of the Hill that would mean removing the vegetation and gravel and undermining the hill close to my home what you have done in the past has been fine I hope you understand my concerns as I stated I am not objecting to improving a landing so that everyone can enjoy it I just want to make sure you're aware of extreme improve improvements that could jeopardize my home I responded to her quickly uh thanks for your email there are no plans that I'm aware of for picnic tables or campfires or charcoal cooking of any kind so if that's something anyone learned somehow you can take away that concern uh we also do not plan to dig out more of the Hill I'm sure that Ryan can speak to that uh and if because he has an understanding of drawings that are well beyond mine uh and help us out uh sincerely Jeff B uh next I would like our commissioner Wendy Henderson who actually uses that Landing a lot CU I actually don't even use it much I used it twice in the last five years and occasionally go watch my wife take off from there but you have concerns uh you have you use it a lot and I think you can also speak to a recent idea we've had about while it shows an option a and an option b for the floats on the drawing we are seriously thinking about uh the idea of having a shortened dock or gang way on the North side and then the extended float system on the south side so Wendy could you speak to that a little bit Yeah I I've uh used The Landing for the past 40 or so years for putting in my sailboat and taking it out in the fall um in most years small little little days little puddle around the river but a wood if anyone knows what the wood wood were um there's not many of them left but Jeff actually also has one I think um anyway uh currently using it almost on a daily basis at least 3 or 4 days a week mornings a week um for the Dharma Voyage uh gigs and dories that you see anchored south of hicks Bridge Road um Hicks Bridge itself and um and looking at this and seeing we put that we put a dinghy in by hand reeling that into the river by hand each morning to retrieve the boats and in doing that we've noticed how the the last the furthest Riverside um section of the landing the concrete has separated from the upper section so we get the little wheels except for at high tide we get the wheel stuck in that and get it out of there but that's that's the problem that Jeff has been mentioning that that's that piece of gr um concrete seems to be moving further and further into the river and further and further away from the current ramp um and that's one of the major problems that needs to be dealt with there regardless if anything else was done but in using that and using the state ramp on occasion um knowing that there's uh the possibility of uh a floats on each side of the ramp um seems very advantageous knowing that we have significantly different challenges when it's an incoming or an outgoing tide particularly during the middle section of the tital cycle so I had asked Jeff if maybe and I think Ryan if we could possibly consider maybe doing one on both sides and um then recently Jeff has brought up the possibility of just doing the float and not doing the the um ver the perpendicular section to the north because that's getting fairly close Ryan what's your estimation of how far that ramp if we did the North how far would that be from the the bridge itself the bridge of butons I don't know the the exact measurement but it's it's probably within 100 ft I mean it's close probably maybe 50 does that extend beyond the current does that go further north than the current dock does the current layout is mirrors the current dock so the each of those L's are roughly the same amount of lineal feet as the current docking system that's out there okay so rowers can anyone using that can visualize how far from the bridge that is um I think that these improvements especially taking care of the storm water because over the last 12 or 15 years they've been using that regularly the siltation from the parking lot washing into the river every time we get more than a half an inch of rain is is substantial you go down there sometimes and there's a little water falls as it goes through the uh the the um Marsh Grass which is not a good situation you will see there's substantial amount of restoration that would be ongoing here um which I think people should be aware that would mean not using that area as a beach anymore right ran is that correct yeah the the intent with those areas would be to allow Sal Marsh basically to migrate and revegetate um The Hope is that by removing the silt from that area we can establish more vegetation and create somewhat of a a natural habitat um so there's an ecological Improvement aspect of the project as well um any anything else particular we're supposed to there uh what I would point out is while the floats would be whichever direction they go will be about the length that they are now the floats that run north south uh because that was again looking at typical use and in speaking with the Harbor Master who I'm sorry can't be here tonight because he has a harbor advisory meeting um the floats will actually be quite a bit further away from the bridge because the floats will no longer connect to the beach the floats will now connect to the ramp so people won't have to run back and forth waiting through high tide on the beach running around once they get their boat in position running around to get their truck and then backing down and having somebody else hold it it'll all be connected there'll be tie offs it will be like a modern boat ramp so all of that should work dramatically better and speed up part of my thought too is that if there is at least a short gang way or dock or whatever it's called on the North side if we go with the souths side extension for the primary extension which is my personal favorite um it also potentially enables two boats to sort of pull into the ramp at once or it enables one person to be unload to be launching while another person is right up there I mean there will it will never be wide enough to get two trailers on the ramp at once that environmentally and everything else it is not going to be like the 88 boat ramp but potentially having some way to tie off a boat on both sides would potentially speed up especially when there's a hurricane coming or it's a busy Saturday speed up people getting in and out uh a little bit Ryan what have we missed um I think a a big thing that we've received a lot of feedback on is trying to organize the parking on site better um we've heard a number of comments from the public about how parking is currently not organized it's not striped um so as you can see on the figure there that's a conceptual Park parking striping plan so that way the the thought is that at least by being organized we can fit more Vehicles into the into the the launch and also have it be easier to use um I've been shown photos of kind of chaos going on around there people having cars in other people's ways uh that's that's something we' hope would be mitigated by having a more organized parking system um and then as part of the parking improvements the current plan is to pave the parking areas opposed to leaving his gravel which we've already discussed the the value to reducing sediment into the water because of that um though that would also trigger some um storm water management requirements which we've accounted for in the blue areas on the figure there'd be some type of storm water treatment bmps um grass swes bio retention filters something of that nature uh constructed in along the perimeter of the the parking area um to mitigate the storm water and also hopefully continue to reduce the amount of sediment that's going into the river something that I expect some of you are here tonight about because some of you already asked me about it is parking for cars at present there's no particular regulation about parking for cars um and I know there is concern at busy time if cars take up a lot of trailer spaces uh I believe it's a little bit of an unknown how it's going to work what I have suggested to the people who typically come with just their cars there are dedicated car parking spaces they will be striped that way and I would expect you might just see how does it go and encourage people who come as a group at busy times like in the afternoons or weekends if you're coming with your friend to go fishing off the bridge consider parking together I'm not clear that we will actually need a regulation for that uh that's something that inevitably at some point the selectman will decide select board will decide and will also be I I think it we can just sort of go with the experience it may be at 7 in the morning it may not be an issue of People Park their cars in individual trailer spaces so I'm not really clear uh I know that I've spoken to the police department a little bit about this they they like to have a clear rule one way or another so my hope is that we can just basically do what we're doing now and see how it goes and encourage people who were heavy users of the landing on Thursday afternoons and you know who you are on Thursday afternoons please as much as possible park each other and if you're both going in the same boat and going out try using just one space together or carpool there might even be a bike rack huh I think there has to be bike home regulation oh sorry there will be a bike rck our late member here Su Branco Bren sorry about that that's okay starts with the same letters and I'm bold at this point I'd like to hear from you are there particular concerns you have things yes sir and you know what we're not set up for yes oh so you have to step to the podium Jack yeah you have to go to the podium all right or you can come you can come here sure right here go to the right right you got your harmonica I jack scam 75 Pras um I agree with Wendy on on the uh one of the biggest problems with the ramp now is the uh the slab the last slab on the deeper side of the ramp is sliding down the slope into the deeper water I've been using the ramp commercially as a commercial fisherman for probably 50 years um all year long and I've been watching it progressively get worse the two major parts of the the ramp um area that I've always had a problem with was the that one um slab separating in a at a low tide in about 6 ft of water if you're trying to get your boat and and you're trying to wait in the water to get the boat straight on the trailer you do have a chance of breaking your leg by stepping in that crack that's um formed by that slab sliding down into deeper water so I think that's the immediate to take would be the immediate um problem that should be addressed the other concern is if you do all this and you have state money will it be open to the state will it or will still be time regulated and a town sticker um would be required to use the ramp it would not people from out of town wouldn't be able to use the ramp because I've seen what state ramp looks like I I'm I've uh experienced what the state ramp looks like in a um on a weekend and and how bad it's gotten in the past five or six years so by using this the hick Bridge ramp we I'm able to um get my boat out sell my fish um without having to wait in line for an hour sometimes so that's one of my major concerns is it still going to be Town um just be just people from the town be able to use it or will everybody from the state be able to use it because of State money our objective is that parking at the Hicks Bridge parking lot boat ramp will continue to be sticker for for residents only okay what many people may or may not know and unless the law has changed and I'm happy to be corrected is that the water belongs to the Commonwealth and everybody gets access to the water so the reality is anybody could show up in a car with a trailer or a canoe and put their canoe or their boat in the water there but the park but they can't park there okay so the parking would be Town residence they got to go someplace else to park par would be Town residents only correct that is our full intent and uh we're we're very firm about that that's my biggest concern the other concern is tying up the construction for how long a year I am not clear it will have to be done and I expect it'll be done in stages there are all kinds of rules about when fish are spawning and uh and that'll be part of the bid process uh and there'll need to be coordination with the fishing Community around what works for you I use the ramp every single month of the year so um it would be an inconvenience anytime if it was I mean I can see that that would be a beautiful concept to incorporate into the town landing um it just seems that it scares me that um a lot more people would be using it um and it uh you know scares me that uh it would be closed for that am of time with way to use it I I fully appreciate that but I would like you to understand that if that slab breaks off and slides then instead of I mean I don't know that might add2 $300,000 to the cost of just retrieving it and then getting all the permitting and at that point you've got no ramp for a couple years so we'll try to work with you I don't know what what the typical time frame is and whether it can be built in stages I mean we the The Landing itself can certainly built be built in stages um and you know we're not a contractor but I would anticipate that the ramp itself will be unusable for a period of of months during construction when the actual launch is being built with the docks when you say months two months 20 months I I would hope two to three months but it's you know remember years it's sometimes these projects do run on um I have seen that happen in that you know back to the Splat that's in distri Bear I've watched I've ruined two trailers trying to to uh take my boat out at a dead little tide with the tie has gotten stuck in that space between the two I felt the town fill it with with Shale um I've done it myself with with the um rocks and stuff just so um you know my tires on my trailer wouldn't get stuck in there I wouldn't bend my trailer like I did twice um but one of my concerns was that if somebody puts their foot inside that crack and they're up to their knees or their waist in water they're going to break an ankle or break a leg um and I don't know if that you know the time was ready to get sued for that um but I've addressed that to the um the hopper Master a couple times um and there's not much actually this year I don't think I got stuck once and I didn't even notice that so I don't know if it's um the the shell that we put in there fixed it a little bit better um but definitely needs repair and I think that would be the the major the first thing that I would do on this project if it came in phases yeah well you speak eloquently to this and I may enlist you when it comes time to start applying for the hundreds of thousands of dollars to build this thing okay because uh the permit costs to maintain that the annual permit costs don't even pay the current minor maintenance cost of running this thing and uh so it definitely it's going to be big grant money but we're at a time in history where grant money is available and this at least Ryan's explained to me that because this solves some environmental issues and some sea level increase issues and some disability issues all at once that we've got multiple sources of funding and so um anyone at some point wants to donate their fund rais in application writing skills that would be great too we are all volunteers here well except Brian one other concern and then I'll I'll no really no this is good um I noticed he had two exits on the drawing is there an entrance that is on the drawing too yes so the the under this proposed plan the entrance would be on the west west side where it is now where it currently is the current paved um entrance in and then the ex it would be so it' be a one-way traffic flow and then there'd be a left turn lane out and a right turn lane out if I put the the um slab as number one concern my next concern was is is exiting the the ramp now it's very dangerous if you try to take a right hand turn out of that um The Landing the way it is now there's very little uh the way the shrubs are and the way that the Landscaping is and the rut that's always there it's difficult to take right hand T without almost getting into an accident every time you leave the ring M so that would be my next conern well I think with Paving and design that would all be yeah that all be improved I mean right now that needs addressing I know this is about a project that you're talking about in the future if I'm talking about right now looking at the dangers that are there and exist immediately you know I encourage you to go speak to the select board about this that's this is their deal and they should be aware of the potential liability okay really I mean I can pass it on but it it's better it helps if private citizens do and Wendy it's too bad we can't watch out boat right in front of pill crr they get well that when's gone thank yeah and I would say to the public that is potentially viewing this or anyone in the audience I would hope that I mean I know there's people that have access to the water on their property or in their associations and so it might be that there's some way to help out the local fishermen if and when this ever does get built so that there is some other way for you to get your boats in and out of the water or some accelerated deal we could do for the 88 boat ramp or something I don't know but I appreciate your concern about that excuse me yes sir uh you mentioned you to me I'm sry your name sir you mentioned earlier your name sir what your name Dave Allen thank you Dave you mentioned earlier that about Paving the parking lot yes sir but then just now when you were answering Jack's question yeah you were talking about about Paving the a uh the uh exit yep and I just wanted to know uh I'm just going to say it is that owned by the town Town you're going to you're going to pave land that's not owned by the town we are in the process of negotiating an easement for that part of the land okay but you didn't mention that to Jack and I just wanted to point that out okay thank you sure yep yeah that that property was acquired by the Mason's Lodge now the L Lodge Association uh decades ago and we are in negotiation with them lots of hands please step forward I would say also for people at home the idea of Paving I know is problematic for folks because it's not a porous surface and that packed gravel is 95% non-porous it's not that different and the problem with packed gravel is it washes and ruts and washes into the river by Paving it we are one thing we did not speak about is we hope to drama ically change the grading so that right now the water flows downhill right into the river our hope is to change the grading so that the water will flow north into the retention systems and then be treated before it enters the river through a piping system that only partially exists right now so this is a big environmental gain even though people don't like the idea of P sorry for interrupting you sir no I hadn't even started so uh Mark Schmid 250 fishville Lane and uh I actually wanted to start by expressing some reservations about this plan but then when I heard that representative Schmid got you $50,000 I better back off from that um anyway but but uh I do commend you for taking on this uh project and I do see some of the the benefits and uh I have a still have a concern about some of the effects of it but before I get to that um I just had a few other minor questions you've answered some of them already the first question was who owns the property I'm it's clear now the town owns it but as you've said it's administered by the select board essentially and except for the section that's owned by the nooke Association yeah so it will continue to be accessed by um it'll be elig Town residents only will be eligible to um apply for a permit is that right and to park yes yeah and the the select board will set the the fee whatever that is I imagine it would be probably more than it is now given the the cost of Renovations but I I'm not going to make any speculation about that probably you don't know either it just went up 50% should be to the CR yes what what out of curiosity what is the feed 30 30 30 this year oh no senior discount okay U no somebody told me $5 and I thought no that's the penalty for overnight parking $5 $5 yeah mhm but it's 25 for daytime parking I know but it's actually in the code it's a state law so anyway um then I assume you'll have some signage there you know saying I Town residence only by permit required or something to that nature make it clear because there's a lot of traffic that goes by there and'll be lot more signage than there is currently good good not that we want to exclude our neighbors but it is a thorough Fair that's used by people from this the western side of Dartmouth coming through to uh Le market for instance so forth so um uh I think controlling the number of people that do have access to it might become an issue in the future I don't know um and uh just the other lighting do you anticipate having any Lighting on the present our thoughts are no lighting um it's it's sort of one more thing to maintain installing electric there would be a big deal and the town doesn't really have the Personnel to be patrolling and rescuing people on the river in the winter in the at at night and all so and I I expect the neighborhood doesn't want it to become a hangout and so for all those reasons I think that if people need to be there after dark they have headlamps and Flash flashlights but I don't know if the code changes at all about that but I would expect and in general the floats and everything else will be so much easier for people to walk on uh they will be lower in the water than the current ones so it'll be easier to step in and out of the typical boats that people are stepping in and out of instead of this crazy climb down from the hand me- down floats that are there now so I I expect that it will be much safer but I'm not planning on lighting and unless somebody really wants lights well I guess the other issue to consider is whether or not you can or whether this can be enforced could there be hours of use you know restriction open from certain time in the morning closed certain time in the evening or it D that again is a select board issue and I think that would run against the needs of commercial fishermen and this is a fishing and farming friendly community so I think there's again and policing is different ult in this town I'm on I mean we we have issues with other Landings at night time I and so at least it's close to a thorough fair and not too far from the police station if there's an issue there and we to some extent depend on the public and the neighbors if there is a problem to let the police know and do our best to discourage partying littering all of that there there will be a Portage on it'll in the plan there'll be anchors that are sunk into the cement for the port of John so it can't be flipped over by the storms or youth um so you know we will try to build into this plan as much as we can to make it as safe and as palatable as possible yeah yeah okay I I I wasn't suggesting that you need lighting or that you need that restricted hours I was just curious as to whether you thought about those some of those issues we've thought about it and it's problematic and it's also problematic to set more regulations that you have no effective ability to enforce so the the other little thing the uh the northern uh float you call it right M gets close to the bridge and uh I understand that you can't be considered a true towy unless you've at least once jumped off that bridge I know it's not supposed to be done but you see the kids doing that all the time so all hopefully that won be a danger all hours of the night too there you go spoken from experience I suppose yeah I mean that's another one of those regulations that the town say put up signs and the signs get pulled down and I expect they may there may be good reasons for the town if the town is listening to consider putting back up signs even if they come down just so that if someday somebody Falls backward into the road and hits their head well we told you so uh so um you know that's reality that we face is that managing this is a whole other set of things so uh the last comment I want to make is sort of along the lines of uh of uh let's say if you build it they will come and my my what I wonder is that uh if this gets built out and it becomes a very inviting location to launch boats it will become more popular than it is and the fact that the ramp now the new ramp will I believe uh allow easy year or will allow for the launching of larger boats which in all probability many of them will be power boats I don't have anything anything wrong with power boats I have one myself but the issue is I guess I have a concern about boat traffic on the River on the east branch in particular I've noticed in the last couple years since the co started enormous increase in in the number of boats power boats in particular uh using the river which is great but the problem is they don't all stay the bigger boats don't all stay in the channels they explore let's say off the channels into the shallower areas of the river um around the our sort of fragile Marsh areas uh particularly true of jet skis by the way and I just you know this is our most important natural resource this River and it's under assault every day by the nitrogen that's flowing into it and uh it's under dressed by power boats I mean power boats given the fact that they do can leak oil and other substances but it's more that people just naturally want to explore the river and as these larger power Outboards go through the shallower areas of of the river um they very often the props are digging their way through the mud U because we don't have a rocky bot so a lot of people are tempted to go through and U I've seen these you know somebody with twin 150 is as large as that attempting to go through a shaller area glad they have the boat but they don't understand that uh how shallow the water can be and how much harm that can do to the marine life if you're churning through your way through the mud so this is I just uh I think it's a good thing you're creating this but on the other hand I I don't know whether it can be any way that we can I won't say restrict but we can have some signs about keeping to you know larger vessels keeping to the channel or something of that nature that would give whether they follow that advice I don't know but at least we can make that attempt to control how much damage can be done to this River just because it is so fragile and it's so important to this town I appreciate your concern about all those issues I would point out that this is the only public ramp for 14 miles of Riverfront in this town and the public has a right to get on the river and I think it is important as you say to regulate that we are designing this ramp or this parking area to effectively make it very difficult to put a great big boat in there this will not be a to it's not being set up in terms of the length of the trailer spaces for double axle trailers so um we don't expect that to be as big an issue that those folks if they and typically I would think that if someone's got to great a big boat they're going down the 88 boat ramp anyhow uh so the other issues you describe are issues certainly to bring up with Harbor advisory and the select board whether their budgets can be increased for better marking of the channel better signage but it's a public resource and it's the only way for the public to get on the water pretty much in the entire town with a boat I mean with a boat with an outboarder or a 15ft sailboat I mean the other Landings in town you really can't put a boat in at the head of Westport I mean on a trailer and it is very difficult to put a boat in on The appville Landing so it is important to us to do diligence and try to make this available to the public and I appreciate that people that I mean that live right on the water I don't think this will necessarily increase the boat traffic on a busy weekend that Landing is Chaka block full already uh I don't think there'll be that many more trailer spaces it'll just be more organized um but I think that's you know those are issues that you know we can consider um and be good wise again to bring them up with the select board uh but enforcement is difficult yeah yeah and it's not even just the traffic itself it's just that as I said human nature is we have a beautiful River and there's a Temptation if you to explore and go up this little Channel or this around this Marg given these things and so it's uh it's a consequence I guess of making it available to this to the public so I don't think it's going to be any more available necessarily it's going to be less it's going to be less dangerous yeah and in the long range it's going to be less expensive because if I mean if at some point sea level increase that slab Falls away all of that it's going to be a big problem there no I I I understand all of the uh the uh the advantages to this so thank you for that thank you thank you uh in back first come on up good my name is Rick Smith and uh I'm sorry my name is Rick Smith and I too I'm a commercial fisherman I haven't had the luxury of fishing for half a century like Jack at um but nonetheless I'm here I'm a member of the shellfish advisery committee and we met last night and in conversation with the Haba Massa since he's tied up tonight at another meeting he asked if I come he a thought that we talked about last night quite in depth um the plan that you have here and plan that we saw in town hall has two options for North ramp a North do and a South do um as you think through it um where was still at the stage where there are two options and there may be only one options we could be both options um the shellfish advisory with your experience as well as a habam master has a preference for the north ramp and the reason being uh two reasons actually north float system North float system correct um most people this is going to be heavily used when it's going to be more heavily it's going to be in the summer time um during the winter the commercial people adventurers will be there but they certainly won't be there in the numbers as in the summer time and a lot of people do not have um you can be honest here good skills at backing down thank you um you took the whiz that out the point being on the left- hand side most people would admit it's easy to back down a boat any trailer on the left side using left mirror it can turn around and you can exit the vehicle and grab onto your boat your line whatever from that side without having to run around your vehicle the second piece is that in summertime we have a prevailing southwesterly wind and if you are launching or recovering any type of a vessel with that wind blowing especially the way it's been blowing recently but if it's blowing Southwest out of the Southwest the tendency will be to push a boat onto the dock onto the dock on the north side as opposed to away from the do from the Southside so we see this all the time if you spend any time with the 88 boat ramp it's quite the show um sit by sit back and watch some of the launchings and recoveries down there so bringing this forward to you would like you to certainly make take that into consideration if it gets to the point where there's going to be either an option a or an option b if both options are Incorporated it's move but um I just wanted to share that with you again from the shellfish committee as well as the hav mastera can't be here tonight thank you thank you yeah I fully appreciate that and we did hear that from the Harbor Master before and that's part of why I've proposed to Ryan that we think about an abbreviated I don't know if it would be the gangway or a dock or what you'd call it on the North side for all those reasons the reason I'm thinking about the South ramp is that basically the way the floats are now almost nobody ever uses the inside linear feet I'm sorry of the of that float system MH whereas with the South option since most of the traffic from that boat ramp is south from the boat ramp people could come in on the inside and dist charge passengers it just becomes more people can use it basically uh and so but that's why we looking at the expense of having some sort of extension on both sides and then we would work with you and figure out how much of an extension do you really need for someone that's just coming in in a heavy wind I see a fisherman nodding and wants to lay his his or her boat in on that side uh which makes a lot of sense uh but there'll be things like cleats and Railways and stuff you know it'll be probably a nicer launching experience than you even see at the 88 boat ramp because it'll be more modern um one other one other thing two other things actually thinking is true for for those of us who would be using it or for those who will be using it um as a handicap um person um I could think I can only think how much easier it would be to load from the north ramp with the prevailing Southwest keeping that boat tight to the ramp tight to the to the dock as opposed to the possibility of on the South Side having it blown off the floow and making it more difficult for a handicap person to bridge that Gap that it's going to be natural second piece of this is a question for you will these floats be removed in the winter or as they are now or are they going to stay year round in we haven't really dealt with that uh they I expect these floats will be I mean I've seen floats that are able now to stay in and they're typically uh they're molded large sections of plastic yeah and I think that it might be that a few would be removed but some could stay depends on whether we're seeing ice or not as things go on but that's not something we've actually talked about at all right uh and would be something to to consider um but certainly I would expect these will be about a third of the weight per square foot of the existing floats so they will be relatively easy to get in and out we know the icing up is much different than the icing is at the 88 R um you know just because of the flow or the lack of flow in the area so just some some something to consider yeah and would would love to hear from fishermen who use it all year round because we're not there and to hear from you about that uh because if there's a way to make your lives easier as you age and continue I mean I don't know how you use those rakes but you do um we want to know that uh because I mean Westport is an aging population and we want this to be more accessible for everybody I think we started by you all I can say I said West I know you're retired come on all I can say is a bush of voices of bush of the cooh not getting any light up thank you for your time thank you thank you yes please hi thanks I'm Roberta carvalo uh the science director of the Westport River Watershed Alliance and I came along because I was really interested to find out what Coastal Restoration in your drawing M very glad to hear that you're talking about uh salt marsh restoration and leaving room for marsh migration because that's what we feel it's really important um just one comment about the planner question um you uh the direct discharge that's being lengthened and promotive of the existing discharge on the bridge you know would be great if it there were any way to be able to incorporate that into the storm water infrastructure that you're building especially in the light of these new draft regulations being proposed by the D for the wetlands protection act and stuff if we're imagining going out to bid years from now when these when these draft changes might be approved they've got even higher standards on discharges um Etc but the interesting part not that it's a rare thing that I would ever promote pavement but going forward um these draft changes in W was protect act qualify gravel as impervious surface so um it it is certainly Improvement for water quality and runoff Paving the surfaces so just thought I'd throw that in there but you know there's anything that we can do to limit uh the existing direct when they built the Hicks Bridge the amount of direct discharges that they have coming off the bridge is a bit astounding so whatever we could do to plug it up or something that would be great there yeah I I defer to our professional and all that so there are currently on the existing Entrance Ramp um there's two sort of direct discharges from the Hicks Bridge Road system um we are hoping that we can catch one of them on the east side and move it through our BMP before it discharges um unfortunately the piece that discharges on the west side of the ramp at least as of to date we haven't finished the design but we haven't figured out anyway um to fight gravity on that to get it to get it to go back to treat before um but that is something we we were looking at when we looked at the project is there's all these pipes coming off hibridge road that are just discharging directly into the river um and we'd like to try to mitigate some of that and get them into our BMP systems rather than um just direct discharge into the river great news well thank you for your time thank you yes sir Michael dagy um president of the N call Association right now our treasured neighbor to the east um I mean I grew up in West and uh we did a lot of BU crab fishing off the off the now rain it was dirt back um so I I like the I like it um you did have a letter from the ab the bus above us um they do tend to play around in the par a lot um so if the police could control that a little bit better that would be great my concern is right now we we just had and talked about an easement or possible eement you know whatever we're going to do but that rant as we talked about um it's being washed out now the the roadway the exit ramp M uh especially going to the right there's a big hole there um with being washed up our concern about is is liability cuz right now that's our land and if someone gets hurt on that who is liable is it is it the town well it and get thrown back on us I mean I just became president so I have these questions um I'm concerned about that um I don't know if anybody has any answers it's a good question why we need to figure out an easement soon but because that takes away all those all those environmental and safety responsibilities and puts it back on the town and at the same time I've faced this issue with some other areas in town the town has steeper Pockets even though they're a little empty right now that's why that's why we're concerned I mean something like that could probably maybe put us under M and um and I I I've been doing some clearing out along with a couple other brother U we did try to knock down some of that that uh that tall brush on the side I don't know if that helped any but uh little bit at the top but we do see the road washed out uh the the ramp uh exit ramp especially to the right um so it's just a concern of mine if someone happens to have to jump out to fix the trail uh boat on the trail or something and they jump into one of those holes where get washed out and they break an ankle like just like you were talking about the ramp itself sure is this something that especially happened since the storms that we've recently had no it's they'll fix it and it happens again so it's it's kind of an ongoing thing but um it it just is concerning that uh where the liability Falls um just SC that out thank you yes please hi I'm Cindy zembo I live in town um I'm also a member of the rowing Community here um and I do want to thank you for all the hard work that's gone into this plan and all the thoughtful input you've gathered um and you know taking the opportunity to Avail the town of outside funding um I my question is when the number of parking when the parking um plan was made what was the percentage so I I counted 10 vehicle spots and 26 trailer spots if I my counting is right was it mostly just to maximize the number of trailer spots was that the rationale it was to maximize the space and then to also where we could where it was appropriate to have you know where some spaces you see on the get my directions the southeast corner you can see four spots there correct couldn't put trailers there because it would block the exit okay so where we could we tucked in cars okay uh and we do not show any striping currently going up the exit ramp even though people currently regularly parked trailers and cars going all the way up to hibridge Road on a busy Saturday mhm so I expect that'll continue uh I don't know what the select board and the police department will decide to do if someone happens to park a car in an unstriped area I mean typically you can see right in the front on the east side of the actual boat ramp you can see some yellow stripes drawn in yellow stripes mean don't stop here uh because then it'll block traffic trying if somebody backs their trailer into that spot waiting for someone to bring the boat then they've made it difficult for other people to drive in and then if someone par backs in against them we suddenly have traffic extending out into Hicks Bridge Road which becomes a safety concern so uh we are particularly because historically this has been a boat ramp for Boat Trailers uh we did try to maximize trailer parking wherever we could at the same time we we know that a lot of people without trailers use the water and we are going to do our best to work with the select board and those groups of people to figure out a solution but at the same time it's a big town There's 15,000 people in town there's one public parking lot for boats 36 bus for people and boats cars and boats right but at the same time there are places that people can park along Hicks bridge and put a kayak or a canoe in the water there is parking at Adamsville which is accessible I realize it that doesn't help some people who have specific needs to get to boats at that particular location but this is a boat ramp for all the people of Westport and we are going to try to accommodate all the people as best we can and there's some historical requirements here too okay and understood um I just you know Jeff we've had a private just for sobody know Jeff and I have had a you know a conversation about this previously and um and you know it's just on many so Dharma Voyage Rose we have 113 members we row from um May until November and we predominantly rot early in the morning um Monday through Saturday and if we have events we really try to get out of the landing as early as possible on Saturdays because we recognize that that is when people have the day off they want to go out in their vote so we try to be very mindful of that and my experience is that often times when we are rowing there are no Boat Trailers there no one is trying to get in and so and typically we have two boats that have seven people in them going out at a time so that's 14 people coming from different places in town who are then leaving and going to work sometimes so the idea of car pooling or parking off site and getting there will limit their ability to do a healthful pleasant community building activity so that's where the concern around just T spaces and and are they going are we going to be disallowed to park in a trailer spot when nobody else is there um that's that's the concern I really bring about about the plan as it as it sits um because currently we do try to be respectful we do we are busy on Thursday afternoons because we have race training and that's the only time our coach can come so that is a high use time and um we do try to be respectful in dble park and you know put two people when we know we're in a boat with somebody else okay you park behind me so that we're not taking up as much space and we will continue to do that so thank you thank you and I expect that you know we are trying to work with all folks in town around those issues because there's people fish from the bridge and they come singly and they're going to be facing the same kind of issues um so some of that can be solved from signage a lot of it cooperation I see a fisherman with his hand up and I'll step away I'm all thank I'm all done thank you thank while you're pocket just people at home you know they want to hear you jack Stam again the um while you're talking about parcking I I I think you might be wrong with me thinking that there's going to be no or very few double axle trailers using that ramp because they will be I I use a double axle um boat I got I got two boats a single axle trailer and a double axle trailer and I use I use it for both uh for both boats but there will be especially if it's a brand new ramp um there will be people that with double axle trailers and like the 88 ramp they have a certain area um where the single axle trailers um are parked um specifically in one spot so probably it's not written on the on the diagram but you probably should think of designating certain areas for double axle trailers versus single axle trailers especially like um areas that might intrude on the exit of the of the ramp itself um double axle Trails will take more room um so maybe towards the the river a little you know your overall length is truck excuse me do you know what your overall length is truck and trailer what the length is no it all depends on the size of the truck and Trail they're all different well I know you are just we've got this guy for that yeah yeah we can we can look up the the standards for that saying something to think of should prob have you know an area designated double ax trailers versus single Ox trailers so to accommodate could you reach out to the fishing Community do I could you could I you know these guys and women actually Rick Smith on the shellfish advisory I know but you've got that mean you have access to their addresses or some or Rick does it would be useful for us because we we don't want to build this for the we don't want to make this accessible for the rare occasion because your rig may not actually be as long as some people's so it would be helpful to know how many commercial people that use that yeah how long is the rig it's just step it off sometime when you're connected to your boat 3 ft per stride doesn't have to be exact well if you if you're looking at a um a a 20 I don't think anybody would be using that ramp if they had a Bo larger than 23 ft right so your 20 you turn 23 ft plus your Pi you know larger pick pickup truck right um and that's what fits in your 88 Rams yep the difficulty here is that if we restrict if we restrict certain trailer spaces to certain sizes that then it starts to squeeze out other people if you say that a double axle can only go in a double and a single can only go in a single are you aware are you familiar with the 88 ramp I am and I've spoken and I found that there's an issue with enforcement there well if you're pulling into the ramp there's about four spaces to the left that is single axle only and it's because if you PL if you parked a double axle trailer there and the L would be um intruding on everybody else trying to put their boat into the ramp um and there'd be accidents and so at that boat ramp can a single axle go in a double axle slot oh well then maybe it's no problem double ax trailer cannot po a single a so looking at the diagram you probably wouldn't want to BU trailer to be allowed excuse me in on the North side in an area like that it would block that probably blocking the exit and the other question I had is on on the the two options yeah and I think the double up the option where you had floats on both sides would be the best way to go um even if it's shorter on the on the South Side than the north but is the distance to the channel any different than it is now I mean the channel is the first two spin end of the bridge that's the channel that's the the navigational Channel Through the bridge the existing existing ramp um existing float now basically parallels that that um right side you'll actually be further away you will not be as much in the channel closer to sh you would be you'll be closer to shore because if you look at the angle of the shore and that as you get further south away and particularly because if we do most of the extension going south if we had just a little stubby one going north and more floats going south uh just because of the angle you're getting further and further away from the channel yeah that's I was Wonder somebody was um talking about the kids jumping off the bridge um if it was intruded into the channel there would be a little bit more you know you'd be thinking that that could be more dangerous to the kids jumping off the bridge and you're not going to probably stop the kidss from jumping off the bridge so I just wonder if that was um considered when when that plan was made okay thank you yes [Music] sir hi my name is Don dual um just have a couple comments one you and you mentioned it earlier the the pora party big thing right uh I didn't see anything on the plan that actually designated where it would be so I don't know maybe you want to especially if you're going to tie it down maybe you want to designate where that would go yeah pretty sure it'll be on the on the handicap wherever wherever as long as you know as it's designated the other thing just a comment about the south uh the South Dock and you you just spoke about it a little bit and we we've talked about it a little bit too Jeff is um as far as the amount of water that's presently near the north dock there's usually plenty of water I've never seen anyone have any problem but I think the South dock might be a little lower and I know you were out there one day last summer with sticks measuring the depth and uh it's just something to be aware of is is that deep enough for uh mostly the power boats especially if they're you know some pretty good sized ones going in there they might on low tide it might be a might be an issue um especially if if they're going to use the inside of that right it's just I don't know I'm just it's just I'm guessing I don't have any measurements I think it needs to be looked at a little closer we had talked about possibly um some dredging there because it's not really dredging because all it is is parking lot has been moved into the river do you is that something that we're going to pursue here or yes so we've we have surveyed kind of out into the mudline and we have the the water depth elevations so when we do design both the ramp and the float system uh there are certain standards that we're going to have to meet to make sure that you guys have enough water to launch your boats so that'll be accounted for um this is sort of conceptual um nothing here is at the exact elevation that it's going to be when we actually get into design but that is that is a concern that we've started to collect data um to make sure that it's properly addressed and we did on the south side also noticed when we were on site there's a ton of sediment that's been deposited out there which is pretty obvious gravel out of the parking lot um and we'd like to remove that as part of the project um it has some water quality benefits and and benefits for voters and it's a minor Point too on the south the South dock there's a um a moing right near there that I don't know whether it still would be be able to be kept there or maybe that would have to be moved out a little bit but that's that's a minor point that would have to be uh looked at we are strongly trying to stay in deep water because there are state regulations now that come in about the height of a float above the bottom just in case somebody wanted to dig quo Hogs under the float so we're trying to avoid the idea there would be chain stops holding the floats above the water surface at low tide which is really impacts on the handicapped accessibility and even even any human's ability to step off a raised float into a boat at low tide it's a problem with the current regulation unless somebody knows that regulation has changed no I believe that's still an effect um that we can't bottom out on low tide to protect shellfish in other words the way the current float systems just hit the bottom of the river big no no can't do that so it it really changes the design considerations and pushes us out into deeper water Y and the last thing is the exit um you know like Jack was saying taking a right turns treacherous we're taking the left turns treacherous too I've had a lot of clo and again I know it's a select board issue and I'll I'll bring it to their attention but people come whipping around that corner uh that that curve and and I've had two or three very close calls and and I wasn't pulling a trailer I could imagine somebody pulling a trailer trying to make that turn and then you know it's it's just not a good situation so whatever traffic control they could put into place but I I understand it's not your issue all right thank you thank you do we have anything else oh I oh there you go there's guy in back not the other guy in back there you go come onot good evening I'm Ed Gordon um Secretary of the uh nooke call Association greate just one Qui it looks beautiful uh one question is the exit right lane right turn exit yep is that any further to the east than it is now or is it still going to be the same footprint the the current plan is to utilize the existing roadway footprint um we'll have to do engineering analysis to make sure that that has enough room to be safe but that's pretty wide up there um and I don't anticipate that we would need to make that wider and it's something to be figured out between you and us too yeah I mean that's part part the deal couldn't see the exactly where the we want to make it something that works for you folks and then something that is as safe as possible for the public thank you thank you yes sir good evening Sean just uh I'm a little concerned that you have there two things that that are going to be considered here when they go to chapter 91 license Water waste license one is commercial facilities going to require a pump out second thing is those docks you're going to have to put po St you got to be 30 in off the bottom uh marine fisheries isn't going to like it so I don't know it's going to impact the handicap access which I have a concern that I see Mark here uh concerned for so I don't know how it his better configuration but I think you maybe while deeper water at least for that the southide for the floats yeah there's no water there to get 30 in we've been measuring without the driveway in there there might be there might be enough I mean it's it's it's inches a year that just something to be concerned of where the handicap access is going to be and how the water always is going to allow uh this to happen uh that's just a concern I mean I like to Afra that this project is going forward uh it's a good thing I do share some concerns because I travel this road quite often and I'm always get my head on the swivel when I come out here in the evening because I I feel for people who anybody's Bo boat up that out out on the road there not only it doesn't matter what the radius is you have to make a big swing to get out of there and that's going to be concern so I think maybe you should think about maybe some chapter 9 90 Monies to do something about Hib road to fix that problem to slow it down you mean well slow it down but make it a little wider make it uh that that's a pretty nifty little curve going through there as we all know uh based on a spike from the 1800s but it is a it could be widened on one side so that we can have more of like an I want say acceleration Lane for people coming out of the going east going east or west oh thank you thank you are we done is there anything you think we've missed that you need to hear about no this is um this has been extremely helpful really appreciate the public comment I think it it helps make a project a lot better good thank you all for coming and thank you we will make some adjustments based on what we've heard and what and we look into this and we will publish that again on the town website so uh and there is a Gmail address for The Landing commission so please bug us if you don't hear from us thank you all for coming this has been great thank you closing the public hearing