all right today is is today July 1 how about that uh July 1st 2024 this a meeting of the West for long-term building committee this meeting is a is a hybrid meeting and calls to order at 640 first item up is the Pledge of Allegiance thank you very much so um I do I the next item on the agenda is action items uh regarding outstanding minutes I'm not sure if we actually have to we have outes at the moment okay so the uh no minutes to vote on um the next item is the recommendations to select to select Ward on the old high school uh at this time with the committee's Indulgence I would like to ask have someone GA here if if there's any public comment at all be happy to misrepresenting a lot of people that couldn't make it because of cont basball and different activties tonight quite interested in what's going on so I told them I would come appreciate so I uh would like to uh just kind of give a recap right quick of our last meeting uh we did it said to the committee based on the news that the school committee was going to be vacating the uh the old high school building was that U entertain motions uh for recommendations to the select board uh BR poal motions one of which would be to recommend that the select board uh make a make plans to tear down the building and retain the property a second that the select board um go to or would make an effort to to mothball property and completely close it down for the time being uh the third option being that the C board would consider a long-term plan to uh to move Town Offices to the uh to the old high school um with that being said I would ask um if it is if it is possible for Mr Harman and perhaps gendro to just give an update if there's any new information new plans as far as the uh the school commiss Mo out at this time on the approval so thank you um I have a question there was one uh a couple of outstanding questions one one question was about the uhal uh Insurance costs um should the uh the building be completely vacated I was curious were you able to get more what that number actually would look like at this point I don't have anything specific uh Mr Fe I'm having a hard time making out when people talk I see Mr s is trying to join the meeting is there I don't have don't have admit here here for anybody hear anything for can you mute that are you getting Fe back I'm trying to avoid that's what I'm trying to avoid here mute can you mute the microphone over on that one too or is that is it done there you go all right uh can everyone online here so far all right so all right so we're good all right so uh Mr Sor joined us at 645 thank you again m brown for noting that uh so again we're we're on the uh uh recommendations select board on the old high school um so just to recap uh I asked Mr Harden again about uh the possibility of of increased Insurance costs that the building is to be uh completely empty and have a general idea but not a uh not a quote at this point because the insurance company has to uh go uh they do not Ure vacant buildings so the insurance company has to go uh beyond their their doors to get that quote uh and the school committee is is moving forward with with uh moving out of the building and I believe at this point um did I uh Sean I I I thought I saw your your hand up or was that just about the sound earlier yeah yeah I just couldn't hear anything that what's going on so thank you understood no worries uh so as I mentioned last last meeting I would certainly entertain um any motions that are focused on recommendations at this time guess I I would just note that you know we covered some of this in our last meeting but there's a number of considerations I think when we're looking at this right is um you know regardless of whether the the school use stays or or doesn't stay I think that all the options have some monetary you know aspect to them whether it's de demolition right whether it's renovating the building for office use whatever the option is requires Capital right whether it's even you know wiing but they all require different differing degrees of capital to achieve that so um it's just to not that that was a consideration the the unfortunate situation is that all the good answers to this question all cost money and it is I think uh Brown you mentioned it earlier it's either all right we spend a lot of money a little bit of money or right it's definitely a lot a lot of money so anyway it's kind of the goldie some are gonna like it hot some like it cold and some are gonna like it just somewhere in between and it's going to be very difficult to uh pie I want to make a motion and I have to admit I've been tossing this back and forth ever since the last time certain after having our discussions last time I knew which way I was going to go I have a hard time believing that this that there are many taxpayers that want to spend $3 million to notot we could not get a an override pass Now Grant is for operating money but this is just as invisible as operating us for 1 million for a year with a $3 million total phase I've heard estimates it could be as much as $5 million given the old how old that building is disposing of asbest and whatnot could be very maybe it's a lot less I think a better path that truly we have a say in this is let them turn down to renovation if the town's people want to re renovation and there are people that enough people that come out to renovate the building they're willing to approve the fun for that's one thing if they AR there AR and then we have no choice but to do demolition I thought today for sure I was GNA come in with a motion for demolition but I'd rather start high and see how we can bring this down so I'm going to make a motion that the committee recommend to the select board uh maining the building not moop following but but setting of a campaign to actively uh Market the renovation of that building not moth calling for three years five years until they come up with a plan but let's start thinking about a plan we do have funds available and a couple of accounts depending on how much time this takes have take insurance and maintenance and whatnot we're already going to be short of that but we've got to decide the select board has got to come up with decision short period time as well and actively pursue whatever path they choose still ultimately select one's decision but whatever path they choose they need to act on moth Bing I think is the worst option only because we have no goal in mind we could do this for three more years M So to that end um I believe that the least useful uh building that's being currently utilized is the banic um the office locations the parking is horrible and the um the handicap accessibility is in name only and um and the pathway to get me I just find the building to be user on friendly ugly and inefficient and so if we're gonna do something that would be just my thoughts that's one um redeployment of of facility that would given all the negative things about the high school build perhaps you may Mo ball portion of the high school use it for storage and then use it the more active part of it and more central part of it actually for um to offices so I'll make the motion that we a recommendation by this committee being to pursue renovation of the old high school for future future municipal offices second I have a motion in a second um with the builds of the committee I would like to recognize Mr via who uh without without oppos please s up here maybe the sound was a little better U I respect what everybody's doing here um I'm here to kind of talk a little bit about the long-term planning committee many many years ago dealing with this and it was totally different you folks have come on and you burdened with us to a large degree with a lot of Statistics a lot of cost I appreciate the recommendation was made today I think it's a good one um Craig and I served as selectman together years and years ago and we talked about this and what we're going to do with it I think there's some good options Jim has put an awful lot of work into this as well uh the way it stands legally it's really in the selectman's lap they can make a decision tell me gave that Authority Jim's really try to work many I I remember talking to Jim about some private companies that going back four or five years they were interested in buying it for about six six million for went on a market that's what they were telling us that be willing to use they had some ideas for it I'm not sure there's a good solution to it I'm not sure we're going to come to an overwhelming solution but I can tell you uh I am sure that there are a lot of people that went to that building as students that go to that building now with grandchildren that that use the facility I think it's probably the most valuable piece of property that the town owns and I think it would be a mistake financially not to recognize that from the global standpoint there have been a number of studies my career was working with buildings and rehabbing them for Education use and also we used it for Town use it w exp I can go around the state and tell you over 30 buildings I don't agree with the figures and some of the estimates that people have used I would suggest that you could put Council on agent in there in the next 30 days and they can start running activities I would suggest you could take some folks from from the annex as Craig is talking about we sent a lot of Bill of money in those two buildings the annex and the Council on Aging I think maybe long term as a long-term building committee we need to look at what's the alternative if we don't use that building for those folks uh I think there's a cost associated with that so I would encourage uh both the long-term planning committee and the selectman to look at a valuable asset for the town and we can never rebuild what's there it serves many many purposes for our community uh I know there's some um some uneasiness for if we had to moveed offices there or done that in other communities anytime you have change people are not going to be happy with it but I think longterm wise is an investment there for the town I'd hate to see first of all people talking about knocking the building down um but I think there are other uses maybe there's a combination of housing as well maybe there's a combination of some rentals down the road other folks will look at that but um from the sele standpoint I think we need to act fairly quickly U each year that we we delay this there's a cost associated with it and and there not a maintenance the way it should be with the building so I think we have to look at that but it's the best ADA Compliant building we own in town There's no question you know people talk about we got to do upgrades on it it's the best computer equi building we have in town you saw it tonight with the new upgrades that we've had in here we spent millions in the counil and aging building we spent millions in this building we've repaired this Ro has half a dozen times not only the town funds but CPC funds we've done all kinds of stuff with with the building down the road maybe we put those back in the tax L maybe we keep this building longterm I don't know other people can decide that and build some consensus but I think we need to move on and I think the select one hopefully ready to try to see where we take this and I appreciate what you've done tonight because I think that's the first step to try to get down that road it's not easy all I can tell you is if you go to the facility and you talk to the folks there those are the same folks that they have an opportunity which technically they don't because the select really can make a decision without that input but I hope for the for the kind of the commitment that elected officials are making here that they really kind of seek out the opinion of folks I think it's a mistake for the schools to move out there some you know I I think it's good that we kind of raised that issue but you know as a taxpayer I don't think that's a good way to go it's time to to take some action whatever that cost is going to be the cost of moving I mean hear about the cost of moving we move many buildings including the schools with with you know uh the Sheriff's Office and and actually moving the furniture and stuff I'm not sure that's ideal I could go on and on but I'm just saying I appreciate what you're doing it's a tough job but don't give up on the building there's too many people that really would like to see this as a resource I don't think we should give up on on Central Village either and I think we need to restore and build on that I think we can look at that long term in both areas the best way of doing that maybe we can take some of the resources we have like the old building which I refer to as a ear school which is the annex or the old building that I refer to as a head school which is a Council on Aging neither one serves the purpose of what we're trying to do in town take that and and see how that fits into the high school and go from there long term and maybe we can put those others from a cost standpoint back on the tax role and and generate some Revenue long term that we could help us I don't think we should dis dismiss totally housing in that area too maybe there's a combination that we could do there uh because you know what projections are they close to 70 I don't know what the percentages are but they're quite high for elderly population so maybe there's something we can do with that area there's some challenges with water in that building I've got a bias in that building it's a family situation it goes back with with the land and so forth so maybe I'm not the first the best person to speak on it but people have been after me because of that situation made sure that I voice this to folks and I appreciate you having an open meeting because that was one of the criticisms it sounded like people were making a back room deal and I know that wasn't the case so I told them I would go through his public and and talk to folks so I appreciate it I'm going to end it here answer any questions people would have this is my business so I did this as an educator I took buildings and I rehab them Cherry Web building iner one in beit as well we've done a number them across the state close to high taon uh in aduro and so forth we've done them in Western Massachusetts I worked with building committees at the state and federal level I know you've had people on this committee that are experts in that field well you know after maybe 30 40 years I think I I have some experience in that area as well I'm never spent that kind of money and and I know Chang and I'm not doubting Jim I got a lot of respect for what he's trying to do I'm not trying to second guess anybody on that situation I'm not trying to second guess his schools in terms of moving out ask ad don't do it though I think it's a mistake and asking Jim that let's make this work with some of those other buildings and put them back on the tax Ro I think that's the best way the longterm uh planning committee could proceed on this thank you for your time thank you man I just wanted to thank for remarks I respect uh a lot of the great points that you raised and I think the world points um and to Miss Brown's motion I think that's a it's a good way to go forward I think between having the select board um decide on on how to proceed with that and also you know that decision would likely result in a de exion which push it put it to the voters and I think that's a great way forward we have Clarity from the voters on what direction the town should go in on the use of that building so uh in support of the let's not get crazy about money mean we don't have to borrowing money we we can do I know know we have moved people in town recently without spending a whole lot of money on those moves it can't be done it it and if we need cooperation from departments it's not easy I mean we moved the Middle School to the high school and we didn't pay a whole lot of money to do that I think we use probably the sheriff's office if not shamon husband should most towns do that it's not ideal there there are all kinds of people here that I think can help contribute ideas of doing this but I'm not suggesting that we start talking about borrowing money or any of that stuff I'm saying Council on agent looking for spots that they've outgrown that facility we have parking available for a lot more people than we physically can get in the building for activities I don't have to tell you about the annex Jim's been challenging you know and we get challenging going on with water and stuff that's that's an automatic you ever try to get into an Annex I see people walking in and out of there it's it's a challenge and getting to the second floor we got a building department that if they were going to any place in town and tried to talk about getting issuing a permit they wouldn't allow it based on the condition of that building yet we're in there so so there are some things we need to address that we're not paying money for and that would be an upgrade it'd be tough for the state to tell us we can't move into that building when the ada8 compliance situation is better there than is in the old building so I'm just suggesting please don't don't jump to the you know we've got to borrow money and all this I don't think you have to go that route at this point without at least taking some steps and and maybe I'm all wet on this gym I'm just Sugg I think you can be done defitely had some experience I think the moving is is and I appreciate the sen I think that um moving is one of the issues I think there are a lot of other things with that building in terms of you know there's an issue with the boiler there's been issues there's been pest issues there so I think that there would be you know some more things involved in it that may have a dollar figure attached I'm I'm I agree with question we got issues here with with boilers we got issues with roots we got issues with water we got issues with contamination we have the same situation at the other buildings and there are issues that if those buildings we had to get the annex if we had to get the Council on Aging approved by the state now never would have happened and so we're saying well it's Grand FR so we're not going to at some point we that address it that's what the long-term planning Comm so if I actually go go ahead and start I just gota say as far as the funding goes right we don't have funding in town for anything at this point right we're struggling to keep our heads of above the water even a simple move of hiring a moving company move the desk filing cabinets and stuff over to the high school it's going to cost money that we don't have whether it's $110,000 50,000 or 100,000 we don't have that in the budget right now may we get something free cash and you know transfer it to special town meeting but we don't have that we have $26,000 bill right now for turn lights over there we have that set were in the gym that forced the after school program to leave we have a well that's gone down the well pump is bad the state has said that we have to fix both boilers they want us to shut them down so that building has some problems as well I know whether they're more or less than the other buildings we can debate that but it's going to cost money no matter what one of the main concerns I have is we have a CO professional that says if we were to move into that build we need to upgrade it in some the substantial expense I don't have any report that disputes that and whether that report is right or not I you know he's the professional we hired in to do that we we had a similar report when they were looking at building a new school right they went through that school and they said listen you have some problems in this school if you want to continue to use it for modern day educational uses you have to make upgrades in this building and at the time it was more cost effective to build a new building than to fix that building so don't me I think it would be great if we can move all our offices into one building know have school admin there have Town Annex had Town law Council on Aging um but then you look at it people going to spend that of money rehabing in old schools Municipal usage would it be more cost effective to tear it down and build a new building that's specific those and and I guess even if we went on the low end right and we said okay let's move over there um we still need to do handicap accessibility right we have no parking real close to the front door right a couple of I think it might be special handicap spots right there but that's it so anybody walking into that building is walking from the back parking par it's it's easy fix in the front of the building to put parcking in there we could clear an area right and put a PO put it cost of money we don't have it in the budget so I think no matter what we do whether we have to ask for a million dollars or $30 million we cannot I I it would be I don't see how you can do it and then if you look at the stuff in the annex and you look at stuff in this room right this is not modern equipment I mean if you want to move stuff and and I'll say it jump from one building into another building and stop the same way or or you want to spend a couple of dollars and purchas a the Des and filing cabinets have appropriate com Toops that may be accessible there a lot need somebody to manage the program right there all there all solid what you're talking it's all solid stuff but if we got around the idea that we made a commited as a town we're going to keep this building going to try to equalize the the biggest asset we have as a community I don't think there's any question about is there building that's worth more than that building you know facility with with a cafeteria with an auditorium with a gymnasium and with the classroom set up and with the N compliant stting there with elevators I understand there's other cost to it you were in for River for a number of years people said the same thing about dery high school which is the the courthouse now since that time we built two new high schools in dery okay now there's a cost associated with all that so I'm saying it the structure people that have walked through it and you know that we've had people walk through that building they were amazed at the structure of that of that building they don't built buildings like that anymore there are some challenges to an old the building but that building has been a school does not operate for the state of Massachusetts unless it meets the SES of the state of Massachusetts and certainly the standards for ADA compliance and some of the other stuff is much greater in that building and it's it's much more modern if you would than any other building in town I challenge anybody to say one that would meet the standards for the building inspector for the State Building insector offer ADA compliance that building is the best one we have and but Jim's right there are other costs asso and maybe there will be some some boring but I think we have to approach it from a positive standpoint and then what the plan would be and what we're going to borrow we did make a move recently from the middle school before we knock down that building and we have a figure on what it's cost so you can you can estimate that I don't know if things have changed with the with the sheriff's office but that they're looking for business there they're looking for opportunities for moving now maybe there's a combination there are people that have businesses in town for moving companies we probably could work some things out all I'm suggesting is I think it's a mistake to say we're not going to use that building I think it's a mistake not to utilize it more I think we get some Revenue out of it this year there are folks I just went to Middleboro high school yesterday two days ago and and they're running all kinds of activities out for spawning events for uh dance studio issues you've got the a there's Revenue to cut down course us all I'm suggesting is if we kind of get on the same page and say okay we're going to move forward with it then let's come up with a strategy and then maybe yeah maybe you need a subcommittee I don't expect it to dump it on you you're you're overwork now on this stuff you could get some guidance that people would come in a positive way this is how we're going to move forward with this and then you can kind of bring that of s that's all I'm suggesting so what I actually real quick I'd like to uh recognize Mr Lee you had your hand up do you still which we recogn Sean yeah uh we have a motion on the table I don't know if we're in discussion the motion or we're just discussing what we've already discussed uh I just want to move forward understood so we are we are in discussion on the motion at at this time um I uh just would like to say just a couple things here um first of all thank you again Mr Vier for for offering these your comments I I think that your your sentiment is is well taken and is also shared by a number of people on this committee I think it's it's fair to say um the the the issue is the cause Factor no matter what I will also say as far as you know as a member of the school committee I will tell you that what did it for me with uh to support the school committee or the school administration moving out uh was was the savings but it was more than the was the ability of the administration to actually support the Rules by being on site like the the actual uh members of of the administration where there's been some significant deficiencies due to guts over the years um with all with you know being able to support the staff in schools that's really what put me over the top saying this is the right move for the school committee but back to the to the long-term building committee uh motion here on the table um so I I do think that Miss Brown has has very important has made a very important Point here here where this is going to take a uh it's going to take action by the select board and it's also going to take action by the town's uh residents at The Ballot Box it's G to it's going to require a vote and I do very much support the idea of Aiming High first and then seeing Tak a swing at at a high number or a high you know High goal uh and go from there um to that point yes so and this is speaking to isn't there a cost Associated every one of these right yes and then every one of these is going to require it's going to require indebtedness and it's going to require uh borrowing so so none of this is can be funded out of our operating F and we don't have serve sufficient to do any of this so even a Splat out demolition whether it's 4 million 5 million Six Million last time we ever did something costing any one of those amounts we had to borrow money on a debt exclusion yes what I'm suggesting if I could Mo real fast on this funding issue the reason I was saying we don't have to borrow if you have a plan on what we're going to do and you say it means getting out of the council and aging building and account Annex part of the plan it be to sell those buildings to under tax you have income coming in for the sale and you have them back on the tax RO number two that's that's a little bit more plausible to bring to the voters and suggest how you going fund it as opposed to all on the tax based back and I I I agree that those those two buildings especially probably represent a a more realistic uh uh Boon to the tax roles I think than the than the property with the with the high school that the high school's on right now um so that being said I am going to ask if anybody has any discussions to remain to the motion on the table at this time and hearing none uh there is again the on the table uh Mr Harker could you read exactly did you by any chance get exactly what M Brown's motion is just so we make sure that he's ask B the committee recommends setting up a campaign to fund a fund a campaign to renovate building it's a recommendation to the select board with the intent that the select board move quickly toward a recommendation and and the in the action items that would be associated with whatever their vote is we can only recommend it's still up to the select board to determine what their final they may disagree with that recommendation which is fine but I think the whole issue is here this committee made a recommendation to the select board three years ago and whether it I I just joined the board so I don't really recall how it fell flat and it was sent back again but if this board if this committee makes another recommendation I would like to see some action taken by the select board now in form of a motion I'm moving that we we offer a recommendation to the select board to uh keep the old high school building with the intent to renovate it for municipal officers or municipals I'll stke the word office for municipals so let me ask you this force a select board to do anything so I'm dropping my stipulations because we as a committee have no standing to tell the select board to do that was commentary but not part of the so m brown let let me see if I heard you correctly did I by any chance hear you say that you move that this committee recommends that the select board take appropriate steps to immediately uh develop a strategic plan to renovate the old high school building for municipal use ver Mr thank you take appropriate to IM uh to immediately develop a strategic plan to renovate the old high school building for municipal use Mr partner just shared with me what the memo was from this committee to the board two years you're I can read it please do please do this is dated October 13 2022 the long term building and planning committee ltpc met on October 12th 2023 to discuss 2022 sorry to discuss the various options to the old High School located on Main Road the committee reviewed reports from Little ril Architects the appraisal from L landvest and report from the Town Administrator dated September 15 2022 the ltpc considered various options of the property for almost two years this included review view of numerous studies public meetings and a formal request for ideas and interests based on this information the committee recommends the following the committee recommends to the board of Selectmen that an attempt to use that an attempt to use the building for municipal uses be made and further that it be presented to the public in the form of a non-binding question the committee believes that the municipal option will the required funding be presented to the public the committee understands that municipal use of the building will require a significant investment by the community but the voters should be given that choice respectfully Brian vort chair long-term building and planning since it's my motion I mean we're we're not too far from recommending the very same thing tonight and that very memo now two years ago years ago not one not one of those elements was active not one what I am so just on that this recommendation was to have a referendum border of Select did discuss the referendum looking for wording for that and it was difficult to come up with wording that would have a reasonable result so the wording was n down so the select board at the time requested that town meeting inste of appropriate $200,000 so that the long-term building committee could go out and have a consultant prep and I think also of the other buildings and the value of those buildings that they went back on the market that should be something that's publicly noted so it's not a question of we're going to need all this money but part of this money would be offset by the sale of those buildings and price those building so they had appr one one thing I want to mention here you you talk about the the the the $200,000 year mark appropriation from town meeting um there is still after the invoice that is came in today was that all for full 5,000 or what was that invo ,000 $3,000 so we're still at you know 197 uh, worth of uh funding it's that's already been appropriated for this use I will tell you that there was some conf conf usion as to the exact charge of this committee that I had at the outset a year ago um whether it was to be uh that that consultant uh the PO a potential consultant report was to be focusing on the code use issues or a any specific uh was it supposed to be acting on the the utile plan that had already been developed um which I do think there were some significant issues with so what I'm what I'm hoping that the difference with this motion as opposed to what has previously been said is that it will that it it uh it asks the select board to immediately begin developing strategic plan and this is something that I do think that the committee um with the with the with an appropriate charge from the select board can can actually focus on uh at the at the beginning of certainly my term on this committee the questions were still surrounding on well what do we actually what what do we do with it there was even I mean there's there's been continued discussion on whether it is even ever going to be needed again for school use um so I think that some of that has been laid to laid to rest at this point so I'm hoping that if this motion should pass that it would be a bit different than uh the senent that was passed in the at that 2022 meeting so with that being said does anybody have any further discussion any committee members further discussion Jer to the motion so hearing none at this point I will uh take a vote this will be a roll call vote uh Miss Brown hi Mr Jing hi Mr uh Mr sores Manny s i Mr leech I and I Chris Crasher so the mo motion carries unanimously and with the uh Indulgence of the committee I will uh draft a draft a letter to the select board uh to be delivered at the next meeting which I believe is is it next week Monday night next Monday not a problem okay H so get that uh get that Wednesday okay sounds good so I will I will draft a letter uh and of course send it out to uh the committee as well um be a to attend as well it's a great question um I think see one can never really tell it um Yes actually I think I will be able I think I will be able to be here by night so good deal second meeting I would hate to pass understood understood all right um with that uh so next item is topics not reasonably anticipated anybody have any items bring up I suggest yes absolutely um there was assessment um and I thought we take for for councel and agent building the value of that and also for the U Annex if there's not you can certainly take an assessment from the assessor's office on the buildings that they use to Value those buildings we should be able to anticipate some kind of Revenue Source not just an expense source and I think that makes the world the difference of Community as well because they always talk about that saying well why don't you combine some buildings and put other stuff back on the tax it's not just putting stuff on the taxs but it's a sale of those buildings as well the combination of the two so I think taxpayers feel a little bit more comfortable when they kind of see that is part of the plan and the longterm planning committee has to address at some those other buildings if we don't do this oh sure absolutely the assessment would be helpful so we did have that that was in the initial report we didn't get it appr phid so we used the assess this is just like to mention Town Hall was $1.3 Million Hall Annex was 834 Council on Aging was 653 we had an appraisal to sell the whole high school and that was at 11 million which I think it's high but that's what the actual appraisal was and that was what are we talking 2022 or well it's been a couple over the last five years yeah probably early 202 all right um unless there's anything further I'll uh entertain a motion to adjourn I Mr hi Mr Sor Mr Lee hi Mr duer hi Christopher Thrasher we are adjourned at uh 7:24