okay okay so one of the questions that came up last week was the incentives do the incentives incentives come back to the town or do they go to somewhere else back to the town Dar Darius um Justa who's a superintendent has indicated that uh the reates will come back to the town which is does that mean that we're going to see 40% back of 63,000 or we're outlaying 62,000 plus 20% we're you will get you'll get the 4% back from that 53,000 so we're we're spending 63,000 63,000 yes we're only paying 60% of that 63,000 so we have to you have to appropriate the proper money even though the money is going to come back through the incentives bar the asens zone change between now and whatever um and you get a check send back to town I will just throw it out there that the town of Deerfield said here's your full project you take the money back and roll it back in and get more of the rooms done so that we don't have to come back to the table as many times but that's it has to be worked out with the town you can't just roll it back to us it is Town B which raises a good question how many rooms does this Supply and what's the percentage of the building that's going to be so I did send as part of the documents that was sent to the committee there's a map of the school um do you guys have that picture map a little like that I [Music] not you want me to send to the town admin um TR will is taking over that email now she sent it previously it might have got lost in the ch um we have a question here yes well so my question is that you said that the Mini Splits will be primarily for cooling so that implies that we're they're not going to ACR any Energy savings to us they'll add additional energy costs in form of cooling costs right so when I have Min splits in my house which I do we use them to heat as well as the cool why not use the Mini Splits to heat uh more and reduce our use I guess it's natural gas right natural gas and and we could and so the building the EMS system is robust enough to take on the additional role of managing all these mini splits with a little tweaking wa waitley is fortunate enough to have the most up toate one of all of them great and the other question which was raised by one of us last week or two weeks ago was the state of uh the the state of uh the duct work system in terms of uh being clean and safe and you know maintain at a at a good level for the students who have to breathe the air that's coming out of it and that if we use the Mini Splits they they're not like unic vents they don't have an outside air intake right so we have to rely you have to get air from somewhere else and that will I assume come from the heating system duct work but it won't be uh necessarily responding to temperature but I will be ensuring the students get however C CFM per person they need per hour whatever that won't change y okay so that'll be delivered the many SP just resir there's no sterilization there's noan my concern now that you touched upon the duck work and we while we're talking about the environment he he and cool um you went you you you had a tour with Bill and U found out after that tour that the duct work has never been cleaned in the school um now what's after looking back um the cleaning of the duck work by the um weightly um school committee has been requested twice okay and it was it was always positioned low in the uh in the pecking order we always went down to you know below C we never looked you know and but I don't think we were ever told that those requests were the first requests to clean that system ever I don't Jim yeah um so that add that sheds new light onto that particular um expense and um I don't know about you guys but if you don't have a clean duct work system bringing air into the school how can you um be assured it's a safe environment um well we had a walk through with no and Tommy and Jim he does a phenomenal job this isn't something that was on his part or darus part or anything this is something that's F in the years in your I don't have Ducks but so this is this is nothing that they there's no negligence in their part whatsoever right this comes in meeting the town of Hatfield said they were Absolut disgusting Co they got theirs clean these AR funds town has arit funds got to expend by the end of the year and this is a fantastic use for those AR funds my and um if we can save the clean the air for the kids in the school system and the employees yeah I want to push it the select so I would have to think we we would need to have a discussion and raising the um the importance of that cleaning to uh you know to the A or B level and how that would um would impact the budget you see money through the AR funds before the cap po you're going to get up against it here I don't know there's a lot of people going after there's a lot of projects going after the arpa money um okay um did by any chance did um have we come to understand what percentage of the school is going to be um darus well I the document the map just kind of spell all it's kind a lot EAS to explain you sure it's easier to see in the color but we did have capability injecting it on there but not tonight okay okay Bill um so we're looking at they come up with different shades yeah off each one sorry well you can see the orange facy let's go by grade so we all we all have the grades and particular rooms so uh we we know right now well we know the library the U the nurses room the principal's office main office is done um so I'm assuming so let's start with grade one yep 20 2025 2026 that looks to be in the second phase oh that's in the second phas okay all right so that whole stretch so after school 109 grade 3 108 grade 2 107 grade 105 those are all phase two and across the hall Garden prease phase two the phase one is the um for 2025 is looking up at the top working way down grade four music art music grade five grade six the has already been done okay wow okay all right so okay have we seen um are we going to see a cost savings having these well I guess it'll depend on how much you use it during those tweener times because Bill kind of said you know your May mornings you fire up the boiler because it's you know low 50s in the classroom where you turn on the mini splits okay and so you you could get savings there um we have done a full Conway is all but one classroom they're finishing up two classrooms rather one of the classroom the office space um but they have had their whole building done um this with this model um and they have not seen a significant change in electrical it's tough also because we put it in during Co in Co we have windows open so the electric is kind of inflated slightly Elric game slightly more um but you know again this also is controlling um humidity in the classrooms which is important um especially we've had some of those those spikes of humidity and such um which is also been kind of been important as well it's um and so the next stage is so just let you know other we're doing so deer build um just again last night did approv to do their phase two of three phases they have three phases in their building and meanwhile their energy committee is working with green communities to try to get a grant to update the BMS system to tie that in then you can talk about they're looking for Energy savings so we use the Energy savings with eversource to get the units then we're use the ever we're use the green energy green communities grant money to go after because with a BNS system you can show that you're going to save money because you're going be a to control it at a buor temp and put in those new thermostats and all the classrooms and that kind of stuff to control that St so that's the so de's kind of a half step ahead and which is a nice place to be because you can see we're there's missteps and how to do it and I've actually told their their committee that they're the leader and so the other communities are kind of watching I met with con Green community as well they're kind of seeing how they during that budget right now they're actually applying for it right now so we'll know in September what they got for funds and and how that's going to pan out we we will need less money because you already have a better BMS system ja doesn't have a BMS system that that works the same so we actually looking for hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade everything liting to all the such techology pass I have to keep uping my but I have the PV to offset it so we don't have PV to offset the electric the question is will it initially when we have these in until we have technology that allows the two systems to operate together will it require um human interference to make to make it all comfortable let's put it that way yeah my custodians have been basically running that okay that end of that that shouldn't be a problem especially my pretty small okay okay question but a statement I think uh the cooling cooling function is very important uh especially given the increase in temperature over the Summers as a possible cooling spot for citizens of weightly who may be in distress and need a cooling place to go to and this would be a good application for that absolutely right absolutely great yeah okay um Dan is here to explain this so I'm going to ask it anyway 54,000 for the electrical upgrade and then there's installation of mini split heat pumps for 63,000 that's for 25 the the electrical upgrade will cover all the future Mini Splits not just this phas right right and but then the 55,000 which is phase two do you do we need to appropriate that money this year or is that is for next year next year next year so we're kind of showing you the next steps should should weit they not have the money next year and you say you know what your phase two is going to have to hold into the year so only half your building is going to be done for a while because of whatever you're not tied in to any contract moving forward doing that it's just we're breaking the phases because one big deild that understand the school can't take that okay 26 okay 26 um what is the maintenance plan for these to maintain these I have J maintenance program okay those are that's built in the year yearly cost of running school inhouse we'll do the filters okay we getting in and cleaning and rinsing the coils be part our and balancing yes balancing the flooring replacement pre kindergarten restrooms we looked at that with you and that's something that's got to be done no matter what and exterior doors same thing you know you got I think it's three yep yeah times three and you know same thing that's an old brainer they got to be done yeah so it was eye opening yeah we do not have it on here but what is the cost to clean the duck Works um 35,000 35 it's actually 34 and change I also I also had it if it matters I also had it priced in phases yeah I sent that did send an email okay broken down we broken down to five up to five phases because there's five separate lines did you send that this year or last year I send it like okay not get many of them so the 35 is all inclusive for everything we get any kind of AR of money we do it but that's something we will address with the school committee we I suppose you would be involved but well see say how it's not here Trish um does the school committee have to make another request well didn't get did you you didn't submit it to Capital planning did no not our it has to go to Capital plan that's what your process States however we have to commit the ARA funds by December 30th so it could be entertained as a request because somebody raised it as a possible use being fa waiting to see J um okay and so we're L and I are carrying it okay on the oper list which I think the select board is going to start looking at on the okay okay Al righty well that's I have your original email you have a question have we looked into powering heat pumps with solar because there's probably significant rebates on solar and we have a lot of room out there to put collectors so and it would be a good demonstration of solar power being used for the students to see hey this is cool and owers our systems as a sort of demonstration so think longer range you can look at that that roof in that build be replaced and so and is it facing the right direction it's the big such but if you put a quality roou on that would be a time to put that I don't know we have engineering all this stuff but longterm planning is there any other solar in the district um the town of Sunderland that's solar field next to the school the town owns that solar Feld to offset cost the town through uh their energy use but not strictly the school it offsets the schools right it belongs to the town right they offset our energy budget with that it kind of goes through the town we send them the energy bill yeah um but the only that has there's a lot of talk in all the towns they want to do it you again energy looking at that GRS there that's support here's got plat roofs with the big gr project coming so instead one going to happen before the other y maybe we should start looking at that we don't need a rooftop installation we had AEF discussion last time and I know Walk The Roof is really poor shape and needs to be replaced soon just exp that a little bit the next few years okay yeah um okay so um dug work ARA funds okay request request request okay nice we're looking at the electrical one phase right now um for this budget and obviously the flooring and all those other things okay so as you can see this is a process and just because it goes through planning committees or these other committees at the end of the day all these questions we resurface because they may have the answers to those may have been lost in The Ether so you know we got to bring them back up um so okay I would just add one thing y we have an election coming up in November and I'm concerned that Federal funding for energy conservation may be at Jeopardy depending on the outcome of that election so I would urge uh very sooner than we planning right and assuming that we may not be eligible for the kind of funding we're eligible for right now you know I don't know their sources better or that state yeah I don't know I mean you're going have a trickle down back either way right but we should find out behind the scenes where that inour okay so this is an eversource rebate and they're obviously not going away okay do you have any questions for us do is there a timeline here that I mean obviously we have timeline we have to put this um you know into black and white and make this happen but right no I mean funding was able to go through we obviously have to do the power upgrade first can get done during the summer okay likely given the timeline of things is summer realistic on the HB that was we'll figure it out okay um in terms of like who's who's specifying and designing it what equipment we're getting and the level of quality of equipment how is that primarily Tak equipment every okay public bidding you get the minimum that meets the stack so I don't want to jump equipment right I mean because it's under $100,000 won we can go we don't have to go out to a blind bid on that Y and so you we can control that even if you do B the bid you can rate the specs to model what other project if you want to J your after you can put the specs in there only John you know I mean so we're very close there too you know so we've already got seven in the build okay so you know consisten okay and I guess just moving forward you know this duct work thing is upsetting because I don't think any of us knew that it hadn't been done ever so we have the kids here there um having to live in that environment and saying that but I don't think me I'm not a duck work specialist but you know material in duct settles and it's not like it's continually flying out you know I mean you're you're filtering that through I mean it's good to imagine better to have ducts cleaned but any building you're in has got settled material in its duct systems so I don't want to when you make statement like that I want to start having a fear out there that we have an unsafe air quality you know want to do an air quality test to see what is flying through you know we can do that but you know it's just you you duck maintenance is yeah is subject to the person who you know the priority of the person looking at and so you as you know we've had many requests and usually it's education program is going to come first unfortunately that's you know so I don't I just want to make sure that we're not sending a fear out there that when's the last time these do well if I may I would certainly opt for changing the filters on a regular BAS sure that's done right and that's more important cleaning the Ducks I mean it should be a priority and then clean the Ducks make sure the air flowing through there it's going through filters we're on a regular schedule theing did work at Mohawk region and the Ducks were so bad and so obstructed that that's building they never done it was horrible and um you get a pollen this time year here goes in there and sticks the side of a duck 34 years of that and breathing breathing it's okay how can we get wheel in motion to do an air quality test so that we know that the air is safe an air quality test at the school at the school um I don't know who you would I know I don't know who would do it I don't know who would pay for it I don't know if it has to come in on the budget um um that's we can take that from some other source um Dar has it been done in any other school now we've done air the quality with we did airow cheir exchange rates during Co to make sure that they're up the car you know that's where we did a lot of belts and replacement of motors and stuff to make sure that the amount of air exchange for room was per hour was up to up to speed um so you know we're moving forward to cleaning I think to cleaning if for some reason the cleaning doesn't happen then think I'm with you that would give that would give another um impetus towards the cleaning process so we'll see if that can go through we don't vote on this tonight we wait till uh the end and then we look at our tax rate and then we look at numbers and we look at the rate of Rise of that tax rate uh from over over the last five years and project how that might go out and then at that point we make a decision which things get green light and which things may have to wait so that's we'll do our best but we'll do our best obviously we see that this is a uh more of a priority than what we had U thought so thank you very much for coming in uh I know you're busy so but this helps out thanks okay I promise JP he'd be up front and uh this is this is as far up front I'll take it I'll take it I will take it how's you D doing um he's doing better um um he's feeling a lot better um yeah stronger he looks better so okay hopefully we uh get him back into the great town of we he still grumpy grumpier by the [Laughter] day he's here in spirit absolutely um okay so let's talk about um you know the bottles uh the packs and uh where where things are this point sure there's a few things I'd like to clarify um the past week has been a little bit chaotic um and I know initially I said that I did not plan on being here because I planned on being in DC as part of a delegation of the pirate sheets from Western Mass um to lobby for uh fun for several projects I canel that trip because of things going on here at home um but that does give me a chance to speak in person um to some of the points that uh I had replied to um Trisha she had a couple questions that I think um reflected some of the committee's questions but also her her questions so I'm just going to read the email and fortunately this email has been sitting in my outbox since the day that Trisha sent me a question about a followup to the email head Center so it's been in there since uh the afternoon of the 25th should be in your in box right now just got it now um so Trisha had asked um how many packs we need in total and whether a um half and half purchase over two years would be feasable um I will start off by answering the the real easy questions and we'll get into some of the other questions um she also wanted to know how many times we've applied applied for the afg grant and whether we have an active application out this year um we're looking for 15 air packs that gives us one pack for each seated position in our fire vehicles which is something that we um should have for our nfba compliance but also for the town's ISO ratings it's one of the things that that gives us um make the fire truck or fire truck is having the equipment out in um so we're looking at 15 packs um this will be the third time that I'm applying for the grant it's a very competitive Grant I know many people that have had success um in getting air packs I've had them review the grant look at look over it with me um and I've gotten some feedback from them everybody says that they they're very confident they think it's a very well written grant but um this past year I was able to get some feedback from the uh peer review folks that the uh that um score the grants and find some of the areas that that we didn't score great on and try and tweet those to to get those to get everything as high as we could but overall we've scored very well on the Grant in the last two years um so I am applying for the grant again we should know um in theory by late September whether or not we've been awarded the grant or not because the federal government needs to close their books on on the grant by them um the good news I think as I mentioned earlier is that the cost of the packs was a little bit lower than what I put on Capital because last year they gave us a higher number anticipating a higher price increase than we actually saw this year I think the actual um number that I gave you Trisha in the in the in the quote there was 183,000 something that effect so a little bit a little bit lower than we were looking at is it in which your number we're carrying 202 yeah I think it's it's lower than that but but I still don't know you know when packs come in whether there's by the time we get around to ordering them whether there's going to be another 10 15% increase or not so I think that's a safe number to keep the um appropriation at at the moment um the um whether or not we can split this up over two years there's a few reasons why that's just not feasible one of them is a safety consideration because the operation of the two packs despite the fact they kind of look similar it's a mats goes on your face with an air bottle um if we switch from one brand to another the interface is going to be completely different the way that the mask flips into your um your air breathing hose and everything else so it's going to be total different muscle memory one of the other reasons is that all of our firefighters have their own masks um for several reasons one of them is for cleanliness like you don't want to be breathing in somebody else's stuff so you get sick from his um his germs but also um there's a u that way they carry their mask with their gear and they have their own fit because there's different sizes if we had two different brands of packs everybody would have two different masks depend on which fire truck they're on so logistically even the mounts and the trucks will be different the way the the big bottle versus the small bottle um so realistically that's not not a great idea for us if we were funded partially this year I would just buy some of the packs and then wait to implement them until we had all um so one of the things that I am comfortable doing um at this time and U it might be a good idea I think we we U may have been done in the past is just if we have this money allocated um and set aside and and um if we need it it's there but I'm I feel confident that this is we we still have a good shot at this Grant and I'm willing to give it one more one more try and see what happens yeah um but I'll let you well I don't know how that Grant process works but others if if you don't have the funding then then you end up getting the grant uh or they'll only give you the grant if the town backs it up with their own funds so I don't know yeah there's a % match which um is not really I don't think it's really going to be significant for us I could absorb that in our budget because it's it's honestly um the amount of money we would be spending on replacing bottles you know to be to maintain compliance I'm not so worried about the 5% so JY do you have to buy additional bottles like you just sent to go with this for spares yeah that's that that quote was covers the whole the whole 15 packs plus how many bottles 15 spares so there's 30 bottles 30 30 bottles 15 packs but one pack according to the NFPA and according to afg Grant one pack is you know a bottle the mask is one the the whole unit okay so moving forward if we were to earmark funds and put them aside and the grant came through obviously that money would go back for the general fund um for some other place but um and if you do not get the grant then we can go back and try to access those resp good and I I appreciate that you you recognize that is a priority you know think we we've you know we I think we've squeezed just about all like we we can get out of these things your demonstration yeah it's um it's something every town has the same packs or no there's the majority of the towns surrounding us I think 16 of our surrounding communities have one particular brand of pack um and more importantly they have one pressure that their both bottles are operating out our bottles are bigger but they operate at lower pressure which makes it difficult for us to fill bottles if there was a large incident let's say we had an air truck there that's filling bottles for people they have to change the regulator settings to lower it we can't fill ours alongside somebody else's um there's also the risk if somebody's not being diligent when they're filling them and it's mixed in with a batch of somebody else's bottles that they'll get overfilled in which case there's a disc inside that will blow out to prevent the bottle from failing but then that bottle's out of service that bottle has to get sent back to be repaired so logist ically it makes sense for everybody even if it's not the same brand of pack to have the same pressure of the bottle um we would there's a strong likelihood we would probably go with the same brand of pack as as other communities just so that we have better interoperability um but the standard n FPA standard is it keeps moving more and more towards interoperability for different brands of packs so that's no long not as much of an issue as been in the past I was I was just wondering if it ever been thought of forming a sort of buyer Co-op among all the towns to get the same equipment for greater volume for a lower price for like Franklin County Town 27 Highway yeah we yeah for some that um unfortunately most of the surrounding towns had already replaced their packs and a lot of them on a regional Grant um I think uh five or six years ago which is when they all went to this Sou particular brand so there was um there I think that's where some of the um the that's why a lot of the surrounding communities have the same brand is because a lot of people made the move well that's yeah a little while back sorry we didn't are there any further questions JP regarding the air pack um I think we've I think you've answered all right all question feel free to reach out if you have any more questions and um I will make sure that the email gets out of the outbox and yeah into the uh the inbox we do need an exact number though on for the airs on the quote yeah yes it's that's the 202 well I I um I have the quote that I sent to Trisha it's in his out box it's in everybody's been sending me stuff here on the 25th is it the one you just sent me yeah all right hold on out of um that is the quote that I'm using for the grant that we've applied to okay um I don't know what format you sent it in but it's not letting me open all right I'll get that taken care of by done yeah okay thank you thanks for coming okay um we're going to Leap Frog the water department because they are not here and we are going to move to police cruiser Capital request Chief svine things okay all right um so the capital request as we have it um find it we were confused what we were confused under priority be so this is the uh so the place the 2017 unmark clu and the request is for $65,000 Okay so I know we touched on this before but kind of need to bring it back into some Focus okay um um so tell us again can we apologize for having repat okay but tell us again why we need this particular Cruiser at this particular time okay so um where it started so currently just so re aware currently we have operating a 2017 Cruiser that's the unmarked car uh 2017 Cruiser we just got a 2023 that we were supposed to get two years ago to replace the 2018 um so those three cars we currently have I'm I'm the 17 unmarked is your car that's one that you that's the one that I and then there's the detail card no no that's the same one that's that's a that's okay and then there's two other Mark Cruis there's there's for the Ford Explorers there's three of them right now three explorers right now so typically in the path what we've done is if I replace a cruiser I take the oldest Cruiser that the one that got replaced and we make that the detail C and when I say detail car we use that to go to training we use that as a detail car and Road do traffic if a vendor requests the cruiser we get paid when that car gets used so we get $10 an hour to use that car yeah so that's why we keep the detail car there's no expense coming out of the budget to repair that car we get paid to use that car so that's why Jim just does the revenue from the paying for that car cover the cost of that car and operate for the year yes it does okay y it does um so that's the the current sedan that we have now that's so if you look Drive By The Station you'll see that there's four you the sedan's not being used right now because that's old old it needs repairs it needs TI rods so that's been sitting that's that car is going to be sold off or traded in for a new one if if we go for with the new one if that car once we get rid of that car the 2018 car would then become the detail car so it wouldn't be a Frontline Cruiser it would just be used for details or we going to training things like that so what I'm looking to do is keep the 2017 car that we have which is the unmarked car that car currently has almost 66,000 miles on it it is a 2017 but it's been primarily used by me so the mileage has been kept down I think we could get another couple years out of that car if we keep it uh instead of replacing using the language replacing the 2017 use the funds that we were going to use to replace the 2017 purchase another Cruiser keep the 2017 and then we'll have three front line Cruisers so the 2018 that's marked right now what's the condition of that car that car has got 166 165,000 miles on it um that's the car that we we sunk an extra $44,000 into which why I've gone over budget on Cruiser Cruiser repairs um there the water pump um some ball joints you know suspension issues um just to keep that going because we we didn't have the other car yet since we got the new car that one we haven't sunk any money into that so that 18 is due for replacement and you're going to take that and make that the detailed car and trade in the existing detailed car correct okay yes so that so that we're all on the same page we got the what the fleet looks like we need we need the a picture of the fleet 2017 unmark 66k correct 2018 2018 Cruiser yeah holy marked 165 y after that we have what a 2023 2023 HD that's the one we just took ownership of with the last couple months okay so that's okay which has been budgeted for two years yeah so we're all good the 17 18 23 is there another one hiding up there the bicycle detail and and the detail and what year is that again the sedan you know 2014 2015 it's yeah it's and that's got close 170,000 okay pick buks when you turn the wheel it's not safe to drive other than drive it to a detail park it and have some lights all right okay and um in any given day how many operators do you have that will be Manning sitting behind the wheel of these ve Vehicles so we're up to three that's that's why I'm looking for the third car yeah but they never all work at once Jeff they do they do they do yep I haven't seen them Tu Tuesday Wednesday Thursday I overlap with somebody during the day Tuesday Wednesday Thursday so that's two cars being used and then we have the addition of the CSO the clinici CSO ship which is Grant funded so that's one shift it's usually a Wednesday Thursday or Friday um so they'll be they'll be patrolling the town on that day that that CSO ship day so that's it could potentially be used for three three cars being used in one day and to use one car we're just we're just in a position now we just having two cars even if it's an officer taking a cruiser to train we don't have something because we have two other ships that are happening at that point or three other ships we got three ships in a detail car and if something else came up at detail you could use that car if we're using the third car that we have for detail now we only have two cars to use plenty of times plenty of plenty of uh events where we've had multiple people more than we've had three cars plus a detail car plus additional officers on some of these events things things have gotten busier I know it's a small town I was going to say this is mindboggling and Overkill to me just yeah go ahead um so as it sits right now we have one new Cruiser that's in great great shape correct we have um your the vehicle that you use unmarked as 66k yes which which is 17 which generally speaking means you put on about 40 miles a day somewhere somewhere I mean just you know I don't know when we got in 17 yeah so so that's um okay and is that car ever used for anything else other than for your to transport you from point A to point B if if another car is needed yes that that car will be taken okay we use it for traffic detail traffic ships we use it for CSO ships we use it for so what year do you feel this if this new car would have come to fruition what year would that be a 25 or 26 or right now 2023 there's one left on the lot that they're willing to hold until we decide within the next few weeks it's a hybrid car select board is pushed for the electric car there is no electric car that we could use so we've set up for the hybrid hybrids are more expensive um we can get gas cars anytime you want a hybrid car there's one left on the lot that they're willing to hold when do you think that'll be gone why I think it'll be gone yeah we mean gone I mean like they're holding I mean they're holding it for us specifically yes until I tell them yep we're not going forward or yes we are going forward okay um but one sec like we talked about before once that goes yeah they're not making 2024 they pulled back to 2024 the 2025 models will roll out in December of 2024 they're already anticipating board's already anticipating that they're not going to be making 2025 so if we want a hybrid this is the one car that we have the opportunity to get if we get a gas car we can we can get gas any what uh do you have any idea what similarly sized communities around us what their Fleet looks like like Conway or Williamsburg I think Sun Sun yeah yeah Sun Sunland I think they got five cars plus one like we have the extra for the detail so they've got six cars wow um Deerfield has eight or nine I think they've got a couple tap Force Vehicles as well what about like Conway's got one but they're looking for a second one this year um but they they have the fulltime cheap and they cover a third of the less than a third of the hours that we cover and they do less than a third of the the amount of call volume that that we have as well and they don't have the additional ships they're not putting out the CSO ships or the punish ships they don't have two people on at the same time so there's many differences I don't think Conway is a fair comparison Hatfield the Hatfield's got four cars they're looking for a new one this year so they're they're right next door it's I mean I know it sound it sounds confusing it sounds like a lot but it really it's adding one car to the fleet that's that's all we're doing we're not adding multiple cars just we're adding one car to the fleet that we have I'm sorry the net after you trade the you're still back yeah three three front line cars and the detail car I don't P the detail car because we get paid to use that yeah the other three we don't get paid there was a comment or a question made at the last meeting about it's requirement we have an unmark yes for juvenile transports that's that's the main thing with with the police re form juveniles can't be transported in a in a mark police cruiser um thankfully we don't arrest too many juveniles so we don't have P so Conway use it that often they're GNA have one if they get a second one they're going to have an unmarked and a mark yeah so right now there there's is currently unmark and I think every every town of Sunderland Hatfield Conway Williamsburg they all have enough for that okay and just to add one more point to it um the grants that have come available because we're looking at 60 I got the quote dated the 29th it's 64,000 and change 64,800 um so I just got that quote um so looking at that that number in addition to that there's Grant funds that we've applied for to get additional repeaters um additional equipment for the Cruisers so that's an extra $20,000 that we're not having to to come to the town and say hey I need a repeater that's 13,000 I need a new computer that's another 5,000 we've already got those we've already purchased those on grants so essentially you have the funds to equip this car would you get it yes we have the equipment the only thing that would be in the quote would be the lights Sirens cage you know the standard things that go but radios we have radio repeater we have computers we have all the things that that we would need to purchase normally which is an extra $25,000 equipment there any other questions regarding new police anybody comments and depending on depending on what they give us I mean the sedan probably not wor too too much if they give us $100 they give us a th I I don't know so that could reduce right we could use that get another oh I have one more question but it's not about the cars the other day I saw uh three State Police scers Roll by my house and you know that little island we have up there they went around the island then they went down wew somewhere I've never seen three state police cars boing around my house it wasn't your house they went past the house that they were looking to go to and had to turn around oh that's what okay so they were responding to but if you see them again it got me a little nervous okay all right thank you sure right that helps us a great deal when we go to the boat EXC thank you okay um what is not here and while we're on the subject of [Music] vehicles I guess we move to Highway Department pickup truck and staff wage adjustments the AR still got a ways to go you so where do you want to start well let's start with the uh let's start with the pickup truck again and uh sure and what I can tell you that I had looked into I I took the the electrification vehicle studied that Wesson s did for the and I I pulled the numbers out of that study that was recently done as far as the operating expense of gas hybrid and Electric in their report they reported that a gas vehicle to operate is42 cents per mile a hybrid is 37 cents per mile and electric is. 28 cents per mile to operate okay so I then took the present 2013 F-150 and I average 8,000 m per year on it and so calculating that mileage at 8,000 times the 042 for a gas engine and then I multiply that comes out to $3,360 per year and if we put a 15-year life expectancy on it the operating expense over that 15 years is 50,400 doing the same thing with the hybrid at 37 cents per mile the 8,000 miles per year comes out to a cost of $2,960 per year multiplying that times the 15year life expectancy comes out to 44,400 and lastly doing the calculations on electric at that same mileage comes out to 2,000 240 per year times the 15-year lifespan comes up to an operating expense of 33,600 so the hybrid over the 15 years will cost $10,800 more to operate however presently the hybrid I mean the electric car electric truck is $20,000 more than the hybrid so over the 15 years hybrid will will save us money because it's going to be um about a net loss of $110,000 if we went with the electric and that doesn't even consider expense for a charging St station or two or two whatever that that's just the operating expense if we had something different as far as maybe putting on an extreme high amount of Miles maybe those numbers would be different but at the present time we don't have high mileage what what about um operating costs also includes maintenance on the engine whatnot and with the with the with the mileage that we put on and the other than doing an oil change things of that nature we we'll never need to do should never pretty much never need to do it to up no plugs because you go 80 90,000 easily on a set of plugs and that's where we're at not much more than that so it really we're not we don't I have not with the current pickup add a lot of it expenses as far as things that nature transmission's original nothing's been done to the I'm going to knock on wood probably that but you know presently it's just breaks things that age now another thing that I also question is an electric vehicle the government mandates they do an 8-year warranty on the battery MH we want to try to get 15 years out of it which is what we've been asking of our previous pickups and the battery goes to heck and doesn't work in 12 years now we're left with so nothing so again I think the electric might be better if we were running high mileage and had a shorter turnaround meaning only trying to get eight or 10 years out of it if weit wants to step up and start buying pickups more frequently well then we can look at that but I'm just telling you based on history I've not been able to to get much there was a time many years ago where the pickups were being replaced on a maybe an 8 to 10 year cycle but that's because rust was a horrendous Factor back in the 70s you know it's things have changed sure the vehicles last as far as being able to not rust out things last longer but um now another thing that I don't know what's going to come out of this with the select board but the cemetery Department was told last year when this pickup was originally put on the discussion last year they wanted to they asked if they could have the old pick up just to move their lawn mowers around their landscaping trailer we obviously taed it last year it didn't purchase it they've already asked how they're going to move their mower this year I don't have an answer for them because we don't have the vehicle so I'm not sure what they're going to do because the commissioner Darcy's used to have a vehicle with a tow hit shine now she doesn't um so what do you have for the old water department trucks do you still have any of those just the one and see so we have the we have the two pickups the one I drive primarily and the old water department truck and so there are many cases where you like they're out mowing on a great nice day the same day cemeter is going to want to mow no one wants to mow on a rainy day so um you know those are the scenarios we're up we're up against you''ve always had a half ton if you went to a 3/4 ton truck with a snow plow on it would that operationally make the bigger trucks last longer if you could most towns around us they have we don't small trucks no one would be using it you don't have enough people Tove sit and not we don't we use it we don't need a because we only have three three big trucks and the 550 dri four trucks and four drivers to cover the whole time so that's why there's no benefit to have plow on this truck okay it doesn't it wouldn't be used to BU do you need four-wheel drive yeah it it's trust me when there's trying to move around in the winter time when we used to have a two wheel drive the the few thousand upcharge to go to four-wheel drive is is well worth it um you don't really save that much money well look we're not going to make the determination of which vehicle you want so all this information is good y tell us which I feel you're you're going to go for that the the hybrid will serve our needs and I'm more confident that it will serve our needs for 15 years where I'm not so sure EV will last 15 years okay you got 85,000 in here in the one I'm looking at to replace the pickup y That's hybrid submitted that the hybrid I told you I think two weeks or last time I was in here we could drop that down safely probably 65 but I think we should say 66 so $119,000 less but it might end up being 20,000 when it actually comes through what I don't know is again the the year of things that's what really um I mean as it is we we ordered the the F550 eons ago and at the moment I have I have a VIN number which is a good thing um I've been told recently when I checked on it that it we should see delivery in sometime in June it but then receiving the cabin chassis so that it'll get updated this summer we will have it this summer so so he's been it's it is a it's a unique situation that with Municipal vehic you know let me say it this way the amount of trucks available isn't what it used to be so when a dealer even a local dealer can get a vehicle in here they just assume sell it to a private contractor someone who's going to pay landscape or something not they don't want to bid it and sell it for fraction over their cost they want to make money off it so they don't they're just not a lot of vehicles that are sitting out there they are getting what's that I'm getting re offers all the time form right now getting any the last but now they they softened up a little offr yeah I mean the MSRP was was just you never even thought about paying the MSRP and then after Co you couldn't add it on you were paying on top of it and see like when we go out the bid it's not it's still below MSRP so why would a local company want to sell it at a loss exactly okay um and just um couple things about the thing um we do have a resiliency in energy plan in town so and part of that plan syby is recommending that Heth get the hybrid um so that's one to close but you continue to have this chicken and EG discussion about electricity electric vehicles where it's boot until you get some charging stations in here exactly so um and that's a discussion with the select board that you know the green communties will pay for that I have a fair amount of experience with electric vehicles and charging stations we need to get some charging stations here and then we can have a real discussion about electric vehicles because they do have really good uses for some Municipal vehicles I think they'd be ideal for the water department you know where there's discreet work not leaving town not heavy stuff but you know I mean everything he probably needed a hybrid six months ago in this discussion we don't have a charging station so we can have much more meaningful discussions when we actually can point to a charging station or I think the meaningful discussions on electrical will come when we see the marketplace um become more robust um because right now everything you read says those batteries 10 years and that's it and when the batteries go you just might as well just drive that thing into a hole so as he said you want you know we want to get 12 15 years um so if you're turning a vehicle over in less than 10 years and I mean police cruisers or the type of work in a small town where yeah your pick up as a Workhorse for throwing stuff in the trunk all the time but it does have for discret uses but again we have no charging station so so Charing station it's a move the batteries are getting more efficient right and they're recyclable right and they're everywhere you go now you can't park close any place because the charges that's right well we just heard from the police that the plant that made that is making hybrid vehicles is switching over to gas didn't you didn't you say that yes I was going to ask you if there's any availability for hybri Tru yeah yeah and U so I I think that's telling as to what the uh what the marketplace is Jim that's the only supplier of police vehicles electric there just one supplier well not electric they're hyra there there are no electric suppli right now High there are some police uh police forces that have electric vehicle yeah those are administrative Vehicles they're not Frontline cars oh well okay okay so that's we have clear picture y onle picture on the what is what's the availability I mean if if we say July 1st that you can go out and get one I mean there are some out there again I will need to I have not checked every manufacturer I'm sure I we can find something but yeah they all make again it was one of those things I had said to somebody somewhere along I wasn't going to like go out and spend yeah a tremendous amount of time and effort researching where I can find them if we're going to say if we're going to get an electric get an electric and then I wasted all my time to do that so that's fine I'll definitely start looking deeper into availability of hybrid thats yeah it sounds like it makes sense okay all right let's wrap that yeah Brenda I'm sorry um do you have any questions I should have again I keep screen been for all righty so so um part two um have the discussion regarding um wage adjustments um that were brought to our attention at the last meeting um we still have those right Trish yeah we have yeah make another Cy I told we had enough paper but if you need them again I I have it here somewhere but do you have a do you want them all in okay so where I tell you where the just get you um dick left all this well not all this but just all exra te make yeah that that goes on top of after not now yeah exactly so he said he wanted to save it do be careful wow you never know y we know who's listening yeah okay all right so let's um staff wage adjustments um so to summarize you had voted the 3% Cola which that sheet that you got at our last Rex and there were um eight positions uh based on the salary review by the Personnel committee that need additional adjustments police officer and part-time custodian and prepositions in the highway department along with the animal inspector which is going to be vacant June 30th and the highway superintendent um okay um so I guess the question begs now I was just someone told me not sure who it was that Conway maybe chish you could that I don't know if it was Conway or another town they were offering col or adjustment or whichever one was greater have you heard that no sir no then then I guess it wasn't Conway and it could be Conway because heard from most of the other towns when we did the survey you remember I think you Conway didn't respond yeah or could have been had F but those are the two that didn't respond everybody else around us did so you have um you have increases we have increases here of uh you know we got police officer full-time rate uh going up 1.14 thanks J doing doing that 1.14% uh part time rate going up7 um custodian 3.2 but then we get to three uh positions where we have an 8.6 and 88.5% in the highway so you take that you add the 3% Cola on top of it so you got three positions there running in somewhere around 11% increase in one year I mean again again what the factor we work with and what's nothing I mean Brenda is representing person your committee now and I'm as in the best and that is that we go through with the criteria that we've been using for years with the communities that are as equal to weightly as possible W mass and we look at the positions like in the case of the highway department right now the operator labor is almost 9% below the median in these other communities and so that's why you're looking at that adjustment now if you talk about doing adjustments and no and or colas the minute you don't do a cola you fall behind again next year because all the other towns around that are doing a colas you you're you never can get to the average if you don't do the cola and you you always fall behind every year and right next next year you'll be behind again none of these when we make adjustments none of these are to say weightly is the most highest paid employee in town all we're doing is and the from the personal committee standpoint is just trying to bring the employee back to the average so never has wle taken the stand well we're going to be the highest in Franklin County we're not they never will be we just try to stay in the middle um so okay questions no Brenda are you there I am okay um given that you have the uh you were part of this committee um as a representative from the finance committee um you want to speak to these increases or do you feel Keith is pretty much summed it up I yeah I endorse the increases and I endorse what Keith just said okay okay um I know the average thing is is is important okay we get it people look at other towns and what are they making they're doing the same job that I have um they're making more um that'll never end never end because that average just keeps going up and up and up so it it it again it falls to how comfortable those increases fit into the budget so but so the fear is that you're going to lose people and you can't replace them or what or we have people who are so skilled that that it makes sense to keep it and do whatever you can to do that one of the things I can answer for you on the highway side of things is that knowing what's going on in our region every town is struggling to get qualified applicant someone who meets your requirements when you advertise at the same point in time yes once you have someone who has come to the town you put in a ton of effort to train them teach them what goes on in the town they learn the town get a little experience and then up to the to a higher paying community so so that does warrant wanting to keep them because because training every time you have something turn over every couple of years you're losing a lot of money to train them cost money to train them and so when you bring in a new individual onto the highway you follow okay what would that starting salary be 2708 it's going to be right now it currently is at $24.94 but from the study that was done in the comparison towns would be 2708 to bring to the median average without a cola 2708 and that that's in keeping with everybody and again I know that there are towns around yes that may not pay quite that much but at the same point in time towns just within five miles of us are paying that for starting soup so when someone moves to this area and there a potential candidate yeah why wouldn't they go to the one that's paying a couple bucks more an hour if the openings there absolutely um but there are other factors but I get you you know I sure from the you know I don't even know in this point in time we're right obviously in the middle of Our Town Administrator and what what the outcome of that is the sweat board how much that's going to potentially get adjusted from what we at we don't know that either that's true you may find that that's way over what there's no question have good people do we have any information about uh comparative wages and median household income for towns one of the things that I presented to the Personnel committee this year is the report that was done for the ton of waitley housing committee this year it's its current numbers was done actually was done in 2023 I don't know if we through that report one of the things that's shocking to me is how much money does it cost to live in the town of weadley we all know I mean look at our property values and everything but at some point in time if we don't if our employees don't stay in line we're not going to have any employees that even think about get live in weight Lan right and and at some point in time certainly we have some elected officials that have to live in wle right and if the elected officials that have to live in weightly can't afford to live in weightly they're not going to we're not going to have an elected official that would even take the job that report you have to keep that in mind that was I it is it's it really is but again that's a function of the marketplace that's a function of the economy and things change I know and I'm telling you that I present like in the high I'll just keep comparing the Ia Department because that's what I have right at the top of my head of my three employees other than myself I have one employer that lives in wayy and only presently he's benefiting he still lives with his parents should he move out on his own he probably can't afford to live in Wy so what does that mean if he still wants to work here he's going to have to move away from it when we have emergencies and we get on the phone and call and they're half an hour 45 minutes away to get here because they can't afford to live anywhere here yeah yeah same thing with the police officers we're going to get to the point where they have no police officers living in weightly y and when you have an emergency and you expect them here and they so yeah and how do you walk that fine line you know I remember the chief the last meeting talking about the salaries for offices and how they may not be able to live in town and how towns like wilam are offering so much more but I guarantee you those salaries don't allow those individuals to live in wilam so some of that has to you know you got to put that into context uh I think everybody's looking for whatever fits them what's ever best for and um I don't think you know in the long run can we overcome the marketplace I mean I don't know but I think we'll have to take that into to um strong consideration um and it looks now like um can we fund everything Trish uh well you have the analysis um on the differential on the shoot right now yeah I think um I think the challenge for the wages here you have a finite group of employees y um fulltime especially which uh almost all these employees are and um so it makes it stand out particularly more that the smaller groups affected um you have a process in place I guess for the I don't know how long with the Personnel committee weie this does the survey looks at data um competition is competition is competition I get that um we do have a new Town Administrator and there will be a slight cost savings there um that will reduce this number about $5,000 if that's helpful um due to some tough negotiation with some people's PR um but I mean the difference between now and say 10 or 15 years ago is the licensing and the qualifications that have been put on us by the state have made it more and more difficult to find people from building inspectors to cbll with additional licenses to um you know all the licenses that the water department was talking about last week and the certifications that your treasur and clerks need now um that's the tough thing we've become so much more professionalized in local government right that that's driven the expertise and the wages exponentially um it's just not oh you know I'll go work in town hall when my kids go to school it changed tremendously and I think that's a lot behind yeah you know a decent wage scarcity labor incredible I see it there's no one to get yeah so we are paying over what we should be paying just to get very minimum and the money that these men make they're the bottom like they work bths on at this time they're I mean their wages aren't keeping Pace to what it cost to put F in the table we're seeing things now like retention bones signing bonuses you never saw that in the public sector right I mean it's ridiculous because especially for fire and police nowy paramedics whatever $110,000 just to sign yeah um it's it's really it's really a different landscape now you know it really is I think generally speaking um when we look at everything you know and we stratify the expenditures um you know I think Personnel certainly going to be up top so that's that's what I can say I mean you know outside of that um you know know we're not voting on this right now do we need to vote on this no no uh well the wages are in the budget so when you start to vote the individual line item yeah yeah and then you know I think we can use our money for waging class so we'll be on the list for the select there which you'll eventually see and we have some stabilization fund money that maybe can go towards Vehicles you know yeah so yeah you have all those big decisions now that your appointment's done say um just one question Personnel committee did the water department come to you guys to talk about operator or no no and and because the water Commissioners are an elected board we treat that department similar to the library and that is um we provide the information that we obtain and they have to make their own decisions and so they what they did was way after us last year and after meeting had nothing to do it right okay I'm good you good everybody good Brenda any questions no thank you for asking no okay thank you okay so that's uh that's a wrap thank you thank you Police Department thank you and Wayne said sent an email saying he didn't know he was going to be on the agenda and was going to try he couldn't make it was going to try to get a water commissioner to his hand I guess he couldn't okay um well we can just have a general discussion about that um you know the um I asked for some black and white on know what we got yeah so we were told that the state of Massachusetts is mandating that a water commissioner beond superintendent I mean superintendent uh Beyond uh 40 hours a week and um regardless of the amount of time it really takes regardless of the size of the system apparently well now chish hted this down on the Mass website and it says they're saying 35 hours a week right if I understand it correctly there's a lot there as you know but there is seven hour working Shi each day for five days that's 35 yeah does get overtime he get the flat rate far as I know he's flat rate so but he looks weekends he's on right okay and Bill Billy Smith is the backup Billy kept his license and it's again the diligence part of it is our responsibility and it's wonderful to have departments come in and tell us certain things and and believe them but we also have to have um something that confirms it so this confirms 35 hours a week and we and I also asked for what were the comps for the wage and that doesn't seem to be available so I I I don't know where they got the number where they just look look the number of hours and said this is what the rate should be I don't know um so um well he was already getting a certain rate and they just they raised the amount of hours it went from 25 to 30 well originally it went if I understood it correctly it went from 25 to 30 because of added responsibilities and now there's some temporary more responsibilities with the testing of the lead pipes mandated by the state Etc and so he went from 30 to 40 and okay as you know my gut feeling is we don't have a lot of say in what they do as long as they don't come back to the town to this room for more money because they can't make it work they're self-sufficient they're self-sufficient it's but what they're asking okay their water rates cover their expenses but they and that's their business it is their business but it's not incumbent upon us to recommend it no it is not I I don't think it is I think they're they came to us and out of courtesy or whatever and said this is what we're going to be doing and we've always done it this way they also do it that way because it's part of the budget we can't slice that out no that's part of the budget and our responsibility is build the budget and present the budget to the town right so we have to say whether or not we agree and and and and well they're an ENT PR therefore their finances are their own perview our problem is if they run into trouble exactly what how do we how is that remediated if they overspend because of that has that that that's where to me that's where there's going to be an issue yeah when they and when the water system was paid off and we made it pretty clear that the town itself was the the rest of the town's people who do not have Town water were not going to be paying for Town water with our tax money I thought for that absolutely and so they went on their own which is that's what we wanted and that's what they're doing and my question had earlier I didn't get answer I was looking for I'm uncertain how this Municipal works like I'll ask you Jim if you have someone work a Sunday you got to a rate no matter what it doesn't matter you don't pay time and half on Sunday or double time in Sunday or something someone only gets overtime when they work over 40 hours in a week yes it doesn't matter what day in the week it is right okay that's how it get in all municipal government pretty much okay so it's not like time and half Saturday they don't get holiday pay don't get noat not no it's a flat rate it's flat rate Okay so there is there is holiday pay if they have to work the holiday the department it's Christmas and they have to file they get okay we have to embrace the fact that Andy Tommy's right you're right we all understand the Enterprise fund works on their own but all those individuals who are who pay into the Enterprise fund have to rely on this finance committee to ask the questions to make make sure that the um that the requests are um affordable and um are in line or in keeping with everything else that's going on yeah and so that's why we have to do that and um I know I'm the only one here on top water I think right yeah not yeah so my bill went up Brenda is $465 to $7 per thousand yeah was a huge jump four months whatever but um so they went up to was a make was that the argument for it um I don't know how the same oh they did not go up on their rates for 20 years Paul or oh Wayne was the first one to yeah I mean because the town was all the taxpayers in town were basically paying you know we were paying what they couldn't pay theou was expensive it's in expensive right in the big pict yeah S I mean i' I'd love to have pound water but I'm never going to have it so well if you get it we get it yeah that's true okay so anyway okay so when we vote this in um or when we make a decision on the vote um regarding you know it'll be thumbs up or thumbs down but um you could the piece that recommended by the fin um you know the piece that is missing right now and I guess it's just extrapolated based on his hourly rate now and went up to 40 so I guess that's not yep okay um any other questions regarding the water com okay we're good um little she um okay Trish give us a little guidance here um moving forward you look surprised we have seen everybody yes and we have taken all the information yes okay um so we need to start voting um and I would much prefer to vote when Brenda is here in person when Dan's back and um we have a full we have a full group uh which means I hate to say this but next Tuesday next Tuesday and that will be the last meeting and we we'll wrap it up and and that'll be it until town if Dan's back got move forward if Dan's not back then we move forward without Brenda are you there hello Brenda Brenda okay well oh we'll send her we'll send her a message confirm confirm with her so that would be uh what's uh date on that is that the uh may I want to say the but 7th May 7th May 7th okay so May 7th is it our last meeting we vote everything um and and Trish will have plenty of time between now and then to take a look at that to take a look at that sheet again now there's a lot of adjustments on Capital we got qu pickups Keith's rejection I got the quote from JD it's 100 JP it's 183 yeah plus a little cushion um and we can pull off the phase so that's good um and you saw where we are in terms of tax rate and subsidizing yeah I'm mildly confused but um I I can wait till next okay or maybe um does that include taking free cash money yeah oh it says free cash yeah it's down bottom 225 of free cash yeah but we got to find something yes for your Capital plan oh I see you're taking some for Capital some to reduce tax it says Capital yes free cash yes sources and uses so uh now Landing is carrying the school projects to be funded out our green communities money I have to get more information oh Mini Splits yeah wow really so that Bo that would be a yeah so but you have if you look across there's no transfers into stabilization funds so we can play with the you know come up with some scenarios but yeah you um early reiterations you saw this call had 200,000 from free cash to subsidize we up it to 225 again we'll see what that looks like um I think the first one was a11 18 on the tax rate now we're down to 104 again um I think in your packets there were a few areas we identified where we could reduce in the operating not a lot but I mean the operational the town side is pretty tight yeah yeah and as I said I can lower that wage adjustment four or five because of the New Town Administrator yeah so we have new town ministrator his name is Peter Kane holds down on June 17th he's currently the assistant Town Administrator in swab Mass no originally from this area wants to move back here wants to move back here and uh the board approved his employment agreement that's why I had to leave wonderful Peter kingeter very good will be introduc to meeting wow meeting is 18 correct very good okay um any questions okay motion to adjourn may make a motion we second roll call Jim Paul Jim yes Paul yes y Brenda I should St should start Brenda we're Jing do you agree do you agree okay all right try hard all right yes hello I'm try she back hello yes I adjourn sorry it wouldn't let me do it wouldn't let me come through all right anyway thank you team bye see you