okay I'll call the Personnel committee meeting to order 501 first item is to review and adopt the minutes from last meeting and Betty has pointed out that there was an Omission that needs to be corrected and that is that she was present and I I think when I don't know if you were at the prior meeting I was not at the prior meeting I thought Betty might have met Brenda and I also was at the meeting last time but by Zoom so those are two things I think yeah I think Betty was Betty should be Brenda for the miss the prior meeting and then attended by Zoom I also attended by Zoom okay well it said that keep know that the Betty did not attend the last meeting but but it doesn't say members included at that that last meeting so wherever it says someone was there by I should off be there by zoom and I should be the Betty who missed the PRI Brenda should be the BET amend the minute than okay all right hearing those changes I have a motion so moved motion made in second to approve the minutes as amended I'll do a roll call vote vot Joyce I Betty yes Brenda I myself I okay moving on to the next thing we'll go back and discuss the draft Personnel policies and one of the things that we had was some comments made by Lynn we can maybe discuss those and welcome there a lot of what we just to update you CH on what we were doing a lot of of course you're getting you're just getting into this but Brian was you know we were Brian had done so much leg work in this that he was you know very familiar with the ins and outs of it but in this case you know we um I don't know you probably have not had a chance to fully review I did I read the whole thing today I can't see straight it was there a long time um and I probably did it in a vacuum not seeing you know the Amendments that you did and everything I mean there's everything in here um I just made some notes um from my own experience and um some questions and then noted what I think or maybe one or two things that I didn't see but I'll just let you folks go through Lynn's comments and I thought she might come so okay okay but I don't see you so maybe your schedule changed well then since we all have Lyn's comments I guess we can start can I ask you a quick question sure did we um did we they did Brian send out a copy before he left of all the things that we had already addressed I I'm having trouble finding that I I've got the very old old old copy that and you know is months old and we've changed it um many times but was there email went out that had a newer version I believe so I can't remember what Lon out on Friday or Thursday 229 yeah so that it should have come it still may show up I don't know how you have your emails but in my case it I'm was Brian so haven't changed that yet but yeah we did get an updated one with that draft policy yeah I'm not sure actually come from Brian because it was before his last day wasn't it 3 oh oh no there was a final that was before his last there was a final draft Personnel policies says draft two and that was sent on 37 yes and that was sent by Lynn sorry but it would say Brian on it yeah it would say it would technically yeah Bri it came from and hopefully we got that situation fixed so from the town admin email yes okay there it is thank you for some reason it wasn't coming up when I put the word personnel in and thanks so in that chy that should have a majority of what Brian you know our amendments were should be added in there with that like a February something date yeah yep that's the one yeah draft two okay good I'm looking at the right thing then well then I guess we'll go we can start by discussing each of Lynn's comments one by one um the first one was she was making reference on page four with the I9 and the Corey information to be kept separate um the only comment I had on that is um preceding that there's a paragraph stating that all medical records and files from the applicant you know that there to be kept separately so I don't know if that's the same that she's referring to yeah it says the same thing about separately my my if in case anyone else has this problem when I printed it out the pagination is different so for me the section she's talking about there is not on page four it's at the very bottom of page five but um there also at the end of that section there's all medical records already be kept separately again that doesn't address Cory which must be address El so who's usually verifying the I9 the accountant or the treasurer or the payroll person do we know I do not so that needs to be done on the first day of employment and so whoever usually it's one person because it's for on warning purposes so you do the I9 you do the W2 you do the Cobra or the health insurance information so typically it's if there's a locked file cabinet there's just one folder that's on N that has everybody's stuff in it and certification that they show the documentation because your medical forms your Hipp stuff is a completely separate locked thing and then you have all your other employee records that you refer to elsewhere policies but I don't know if it's decentralized he and you're having the department had verify the I it's usually a payroll function when someone starts and they're doing all those paperwork kind of things all right well you know we we can get to the bottom this yeah certainly and Corey's just typically for your police by you know people working with children adults at risk things like that all like anybody in the rec department yeah right okay well then we'll so so note that and move on to the next one which was the competation time page 23 she refers to which again isn't going to match up with everybody's copies that I definitely agree with her needs to be changed that it it's not when that was put in place it is in total so it's not per fiscal year so that if and when department head AC cruise that is it's capped at that period you can't say 150 hours this year and 150 next year we good on that then is that certainly I I know that's she's correct in that okay yeah that's what the practice is that's continue that's that was that was set by the select board yeah so that's going to get put somewhere in that section three compensatory time which is in my draft on page 19 3 c 3 c yeah so um it says no more than three year okay so you're changing that right now it should be any a total you can never it shouldn't say fiscal year it should say period okay then on the like the next page under Section H longevity you know that's she brings up a question should it should it be benefited benefited employe instead of fulltime and I don't at the moment know if people who are not working fulltime but are still benefited that you know that's the question yeah I don't know what the practice is and I I'm only at the moment I can only answer my department everybody works is 40 hours a week so after after the 10e period they're they're entitled to that um you know it's based on our definition of what fulltime is should it just continue to be what it is it it should yes I but I've got a I don't have the the way she wrote this up she didn't she didn't give us her opinion as to like if she was getting longevity pay and not working 35 hours so if we already have employees that are getting longevity paid and are working less than 35 but over 20 because they're benefited then they should continue to get it and then the only other thing again I don't know if this was the case if they were working if they're getting it and they're working less than 35 hours is it a full 250 or is it prated that I don't know either but I mean I think we have to keep doing what we're doing but I also think it should be prated if it's but whatever we're doing Bound by I would so again she's brought up a point that I don't have an answer to at the moment we need to get an answer for section onti machine Let's do one section on there where it's when this box where it talks about so should be under under break periods we have a l policy presently I do not believe you did so I'm not sure what well somewhere when I started this I printed out did we baby out with the bath water what's that chce I said did we throw the baby out with the bath water so I think by virtue of creating the policy or adopting one at some point you have to have a designated area that doesn't necessarily have to now be created as a lactation room but is identified as one that can be accommodated as one if and when the need should arise so you sort of to Joy's point you have you have crafting the policy but you can't you don't you have the plan but not the workability of for because you have somebody saying this building have the need all of a sudden you don't have the accommodation so maybe I'll try to find the old to see what we had but they also reference a statute that says what you have to do regarding loation maybe you already know that so I could look at the statute and see what the citations right there and see what it says we have to do yeah it's probably just the same as like a reasonable com combination once you get the request if you don't already have but your policy sort of already denotes exactly what it should look like and what it should have you just don't have the actual physical yeah so this is I'm just going to tell you my broken record on this it's a recurring theme because we went from a very short maybe it was the same one that when you were here before or pretty short Personnel handbook someone who wrote this up for us um some W be hired and it's very long for the number of employees that we have at least in my mind and also it wasn't necessarily based on town of weightly it might have been a combination of copy and paste and other things so there's a my concern is always that we're creating policies and no one's going to know that we're supposed to be following them or don't follow them but that's just me being I so glad you said that because I'm you know this is my first meeting by Personnel is kind of my thing um you're exactly right um and so what you have is a blurring of what is Personnel policies which you need to tell people about sexual harassment and workplace violence at work you know and how do I get my sick leave and how do I get my vacation and then administrative policies like I need to report on time what's the cellone news policy and things like that and they've all been lumped together in this one document that makes it really sort of dense and cumbersome and so you know one small thing that just says sick tionally FMLA sexual harassment like how do I behave at work and everything then all these other things um would make it much more workable because it's pretty tough going and I mean all of it's part of having employees and notifying their benefits and their rights but a lot of it is how do I what do I need to get through the day when I I have a question yeah so In fairness to your excellent predecessor Brian he really this wasn't his job we paid someone to do it then he took it on he was a lawyer he went through it he spent a lot of time he kept saying but it's part of my job but really we hired someone to do it and it just didn't match up with what was actually happening on the ground and so that's sort of what at least from my perspective that's what we've been kind of grappling but we're getting there I feel like we are getting and I mean it is I mean yeah employee rights have really evolved and you know this is a good policy to have um and you know it's something that you need to be aware of just like the It policy that's in here is excellent and things you would have there's no remote work pulse that should you know be something that you know you're living now and should be included in here things like that but um you know the policies are all good it's just they're all how do I find out how to get a person day is how do we make sure they're being uniformally enforced yeah that's that's what I wrote a lot throughout un yeah but we have y did you find anything Betty it just it said to look at a certain page that this but it says for the active will be present so it doesn't say there's a room or whatever but yeah well I thought the what was deleted that I see on the side is a looks like a pretty flexible thing you know that we're not going to deny any reasonable accommodation if that's our accommodation policy right that we don't have to specify what room it is in this document you just have to right so why that was deleted back when it was deleted I might have missed that that was towards the beginning so it might have been the meeting that I missed um but it doesn't seem like it's kind of bad the way it is it doesn't promise you anything other than let's find a room that's not a bathroom right and it doesn't have to be the same room you know one year to the next it could be a different room as things evolve um so I guess I wonder what do people think about just putting back in the deleted lactation accommodations does anybody remember why they were deleted yeah I have that box I have that box there's no comment on M oh it's on the side there um I can it's only a couple sentences that says deleted lactation accommodations the town does not discriminate against employees or applicants based on lactation or the need to express breast smoke for a nursing child the town shall not take adverse action against employees who request or use reasonable accommodations for lactation or breast milk expression next paragraph the town will not deny reasonable accommodations for lactation of or breast milk expression unless they create an undue hardship on the town's programs Enterprise or business reasonable accommodations can include more frequent or longer paid or unpaid breaks and private non- restroom spaces to express breast milk I mean that's what got deleted and I'm I'm not sure why um I guess the undue hardship on the town's programs Enterprise or business might be vague so so my suggestion would be we look at the old one compare to what the statute requires think fish is right because laws do change over time I'm not sure that specific one would have and then see if that is still good I'm not in favor of saying we will comply with Mass general laws chapter 62 because it's just of no use to anybody who's reading the policy but if the old existing policy complied with the current state of the applicable statute let's put it back in then it's easy to access and easy to implement okay all right the next SE was on under health insurance which is section four a the original copy of the drop one said additional life insurance vision insurance and any other coverage can be purchased on an employee pay all basis which sort of any when it says any other should include dentel but we could specifically site that yeah as long as that's the case is that something the town offers no yes do it through the town there is D offer so it could we could imple we could put word does look like a employer sure and then under the section where it or the original draft section had it highlighted in red where it when upon retiring what Lynn is saying is that they must that is that other section where it says must sign on Medicare Part B that in there yeah okay y right the only thing it's she's offering any different is the single plan wording it does say that too so I'm not quite sure what she's asking for there I think all those points are covered except for the dent are we on the um unemployment insurance one we were still on the reti insurance retired employees it would hear that the language we have covers what she's asking just confirm that with her maybe maybe we're missing one point is but I think it does cover slightly different words all right now we can move on to the unemployment insurance um and this is weird because I I feel like what she wrote her comment is the same as we've got back on the retired the retired employees Joyce no we're talking about the unemployment right I thought we moved on to the unemployment and yes conclusion about the retired employees was yeah we think it already says that and can you explain what you would change to make it say that I guess or something like that I feel the same way about the unemployment insurance ins I assume we pay into unemployment we're not self-insured we're self-insured we're self-insured so I think what we've got written is that we're self-insured the town of Wy pays the unemployment cost the state establishes who you know eligibility and how much you have to pay them but we pay the cost there's nothing here that says we pay into the state's unemployment system okay right so I feel like what we had written there is the same as what Lynn's comment is but I could be wrong yeah I didn't get that Nuance I thought that said we're just like every other private employer who pays it unemployment but you're saying that that state sets a separate self-insurance cost for employers who decide to self-insure or who do so no we do not pay period if you decide to self-insure yeah you you can't self I mean you you have to place pay some unemployment um that's the state law um if you don't want to pay into the state system you can't like self-insure and then like give people nothing right so there you still have to pay whatever the state says they deserve for unemployment it's just that you pay it at the time that someone gets laid off if sorry sorry if a town employee gets laid off for not for bad cause just for because the job is discontinued they go to the Department of Unemployment or whatever it's currently called in Massachusetts to file their claim or they or weightly they would file their claim and then weightly would have to start paying that we we do not my understanding is we pay nothing for unemployment at all until an employe until we lay someone off if they're laid off and then we pay 100% And then we have to pay so the state is that how it's worked in other to yeah depending on how long the employee is with us they they have a look back so say the employ was only with us six months and work for the town of Hatfield before that then they go to Hatfield both both would be responsible and that's why there's nothing that she's saying that's contradictory but I mean I don't think it's value added so much as statements are true right and that is why in the past a lot of times a lot of people don't understand it is when a department says we're going to have to do a layoff in many cases you need to lay off two people to equal one person because now you've got to pay and we never we're paying insurance so now we pay 100% of it okay um the holiday my answer to that I think bended and we leave it that way because it's what the state law is the statute that's what the statute is and we have no right to change it at the moment I mean it's just safe ground to go with what the statute says because either way you might offend people but that I looked at it when I was sitting here last time until the state changes then we can address it that um the next section she was questioning was calculating length of service and my recollection to this was this came up under the the Police Department in the aspect where theyve had if you have anybody that's worked for the town for a substantial amount of time and then became fulltime that's why it was in there that they could be you could calculate give them some form of credit for working part time that would be something that I could definitely get Brian to verify but that's how I remember that section I again the question what have we been doing yeah and but that topic definitely came up when we recently had part-time police officers who had work had been working for many many years moved into a full-time position do you remember that at all Joyce um not very well that would have been like the two new guys we just got yes correct I don't know and were they given any credit of service for working part-time I have no idea okay again that's something we can get some clarification on there are two really young guys would not have been a lot of time all right I'm on the carry over e we should look at the old policy and what we're actually doing to do that all right well we can we can do that just like you said bring that make that comparison and the sick leave I agree with her that it needs to be prated yeah I think prated makes sense on both of those yeah yes and the last thing she had was the termination SL retirement that I gotta I would defer back to like she was recently involved in that and how was she paid out if she was paid out pro-rated then it needs to say prated to keep it in line of what we've been doing yeah need to look at what the old policy says and what we're actually doing and yeah but she had a combination of full-time and PR service yeah it can get kind of complicated so in that that right so that case you'd have to take the total accumulation of the fulltime the part time and come up with an average and and if you're Pro rating are are less than full-time people eligible for the sick lead this is for I mean for being having having your sick time bought out upon retirement so you get one day for every year of service provided you have enough enough in the bank in your accumulation yes but maybe some additional languages there for those cases sure you of employes go back and forth between part and just want to make sure that we keep it uniformed in what we've done yeah and In fairness it should be right yes so all right did anyone else have any comments Trish do you want to go over any more specifics on what you pointed out um sure just maybe some of the big ones and then I can believe this you I didn't do it in the document um um for to either one of the committee members just um as I said earlier um you do reference the employee assistance program but it's only like a paragraph under the the drug use policy and I think do you have an employee assistance program availability to employees here it should be part of Maya part of Maya and through our insurance which is Hampshire trust so um at some point I think you want to have that in this document that um either you have the discipline policy too or something like that that you know is part of corrective discipline employee the supervisor can a voluntary and eventually mandatory referral to that um I already mentioned um the um remote work policy maybe under workers compensation or something because employees get hurt at work they still follow under work as Cal so there's certain work safety rules in the same VE for those who especially if they're regularly working a scheduled day from home or something um so and then um lot of it was just but me a second um we talked about Personnel records do you do performance evaluations for your staff we have however it seems like every time that comes to to light it gets done for a year or two and then afterwards it fades away okay um the downside is again this is my opinion the downside is that unlike a private firm Private Business where they you can meet with employees and discuss this kind of stuff and then make salary adjustments or hourly rate rate rate adjustments in our case it's all it's all above table so everybody knows what everybody gets and it makes it very difficult do something like that because you can't talk in confidence with one employee without the other one knowing you and you're also really decentralized here you have different folks evaluating you've got four people someone has one I only say that because the document references performance evaluations several times maybe ask the question Joyce says I know Joyce is done that on department heads just yeah like it's like or would evaluate Brian and I remember doing it once or twice but not recently he kept getting like straight A's so you know that's good no ta wants to be evaluated because under section nine where you say um no information contained in their personel file should be least unless written authorization is received performance the child administrator performance evaluation is a public record so on our website yep so just under that section not all of them require written authorization and some of them I think Brenda mentioned earlier um when you say you know information is confidential in some places um it's just going to be really hard to enforce um asking for doctor's notes after 4 days absences if someone has the flu of Co just you know you're not going to get it so in which case you know you say the employee could be disciplined things like that a practical point of view might be hard um on page 11 and I don't know what page you have about eligibility for insurance benefits um for those in particular will we go 20 hours or more it's always good um because sometimes employees work 18 hours one week and work 24 another week so sometimes it's good to use a language on average but the the statutory threshold for all this stuff is 1,40 hours a week which is 20 times 5 right so sometimes it's good to use both there's an indicator so if you have an employee that sometimes works 15 and sometimes during the summer he's working 30 you can go back and just do the total number of hours because then if they hit that 10, 140 you're in trouble because you're in the Benny situation so um so sometimes it's good to have um both the language there um under recruitment on page 13 where you list all the factors that um you'll use under recruit uh D methods of selection um I just added an eight which would be tests pursuant to state and federal laws I crossed out the the seven that said pre-employment physical examinations pursu to state and federal laws and just added an eight which is tests I couldn't find a cryptic way to say psychological test so I just put pursuing to state and federal regulations that require s TR could you just tell me what section you're under it's under two recruitment selection determination uh a three D number seven number seven and I'm proposing to strike and the parth pursuant to state and federal and just add eight tests pursuant to state and federal laws because you're required to do um um the site test or the you know sometimes driving tests things like that for different ons so are you striking the parenthetical or adding the word tests pursuant to the latter um just as a general comment um I don't know where it is what one I go in order and then it'll be easiest um under on page 14 reasons for rejection which is number six where the appointing authority May reject an applicant who does not possess the minimum qualifications um focusing on does not possess the minimum qualifications as you know when you do a job description for required qualifications is always a caveat that says or any equivalent combination of Education of experience so that sentence kind of negates that statement that's made in job descriptions when we say does not meet the minimum qualifications because you always say or any equivalent combination so I don't know I mean again I'm word smithing here but it's just something you might want to consider um page 17 uh G driver's license and driving record verification uh relative to employee losing his license to operate a motor vehicle I think you want to put a time clock if they do that so I'm suggesting within 48 Hours i t with 24 but if an employee loses their license you want them to notify their supervisor right away and there's no time frame in that um section I think 48 is good because it's a Saturday I mean not get into what's a business day what's not but that that makes sense because it should be what is your experience with that Brian if someone loses their life maybe you don't have any let's hope you have no expence I have not had that happen but we have police officers fire I mean virtually everybody in the town's driving our Treasures going to the bank you know um let's leave it at let put 48 Hours yeah I put it must do inform their supervisor within 48 Hours of any loss of license or restrictions under Section Eight provision of employee references um later in the document you talk a lot and in under Personnel records about references and what the references say and getting references and obtaining references but you're preventing anybody providing any reference on any employee under this section by saying you can only provide name rank and member and I'm not opposed to that because that's only the way it's going to prevent liability um we just have to recognize that we'll get it back in kind so when we do reference checks for folks we might just get that same information back and it will be harder I mean I know the employment lawyers I work and I know the firm I work for was like we will confirm that they work there and the dates they work there and I think that's a private employer so it's I don't know if there's different rules but but I I no we're definitely heading in that direction it's just in other places in the document you were really detailed about the reference checking and what we should be trying to ascertain as we vet candidates for Recruitment and selection um but in the same B you know just yeah but I'm not saying this is how people get around it but the way you deal with it is the employer the town of waitley confirms this person worked here from this state to this state and that was their position right but that doesn't stop well not speaking for I'm just saying individual who works as the head of the department for writing a letter of recommendation saying I worked if you know you know to help our employees that's but you're right that's the way the real world is going that's if you called my law fir M if I work there they would say she worked in this department from this this state and that's all they would do yeah and I I think in the scheme of things that's the safest way to go because in terms of employment liability the last thing here is K termination of employment the town reserves the right to terminate employees employment at any time and for any reason not prohibited by law now under the public sector every employee has due process rights so that um they can't be terminated without those due process rights including having uh a hearing and a public hearing and a loudermill hearing that lets them know why they're being termin minated and the reasons for termination and a hearing in public or private session and all those things so um I don't really think that this is a statement that Rings true in the public domain um because you can have an atwill employee but that still no matter what they have the due process rights of progressive discipline um in terms of being able to cure defects in their performance same in the probationary period where in another place I made a note that if someone's not performing in during the probationary period you just can't save them after 3 months sorry Keith it's just not working out you have to be able to have shown over those three months that you know I tried to show you to drive the truck three times and three times you drove it in the ditch right um it used to be probationary period was great no strings attached you're gone but now like everything else it's gotten more and more complicated we have to show we to cure but I think this this termination of employment is really in the public sector your job is considered your property and um you have to have all those due process and healing rights so we're can we come up with some language in regards to that due process so I was with you but I was still taking notes on the last section so I heard you but I couldn't catch up into what page or what section are you in it's 18 it's the very last one on SE K termin right after where we just okay sorry me so I only have a j am I are you here oh it's the new J I'm sorry oh J oh J okay she's saying that you know we need to have process of that one sent um well you mentioned at the very beginning of the be U meeting I'm assume that this is what you're talking about though it may not have been when you said something about um remote and disciplinary process but no employee assistance program um so I don't object to more but sometimes less is more because any Reon are you saying put termination process right into that section I just strike the whole thing oh you wouldn't put it out just strike well because it goes without saying so it doesn't yeah oh I'm always for shortening this so just take k out yeah just it's only one cense so that's a new K so we have different versions all right yeah J onine yes yeah there's a lot in here that's kind of goes without saying because was a lot skipping ahead to 31 just to question Keith um we're talking about vacation and how people request vacation if you have two people that put the vacation request in for the same week do you decide by seniority or how do you decide done seniority is how should say it in here doesn't and I'll give you this yeah that's correct say that um under P unless for some you know sometimes can accommodate but if there's a reason we can't that it's based on senior yeah it probably doesn't happen a lot because everybody knows but now paid personal leave which is on page 33 um how is it taken can people take 30 minutes can they take an hour how did what increments do people take their two days of personal definitely vacation is allowed in the in the an hourly increments but their personal days that personal days I usually do it as a whole day so I in my department I don't know how so this is something we might just you have any sense of how people use it in town offices um typically just the day you don't do it by hour um typically somebody would just use that unless they took I mean normally it's half day or full day I don't think it's anywhere that so this is one of the ones you want to reflect and uh memorialize the current practice because you do have the small Necessities lead for the 30 or an hour one but what I've seen the creep in in recent years is using your personal lead in an hour or a half hour because it's not legislated someplace or other so we probably want to make clear that it can be taken in full or half day increments um 39 under M which is unpaid leave the only thing that I have there is um for people to take unpaid leave I don't know if you wanted again A Time Clock you don't want someone to start working for you in two months and then say they need to go on unpaid leave or maybe you do I don't know but sometimes you see language that says um employees who in good standing who have been in the service of the town for a year may request an unpaid leave or um or maybe for employees who have uh satisfactory completed their probationary period but I think you want to put some arms around uh a longevity time for an employee for when they can be eligible otherwise they can under this language they could get it walking in the door well at least requested still discretionary but still requested so for full time it' be after two weeks at right is that would and yeah so are you saying like they need to work two months before they can start not crewing but actually collecting six Le or I don't know what the standard is in the industry in the it's pretty much for you to decide I mean um it's just really you want to make sure you know it's great that you're you're granting it under extraordinary circumstances but I think you it's it's a benefit to employees and you know who is eligible for benefits this is an uncommon benefit so maybe typically we want to consider it's a benefit we're going to give to people who been in employ the town you know longer than three months and and also that they're in good standing which means you know they haven't used all their s we or you know and all their you know whatever just something again to consider think one or two two more um under the vehicle use policy and when people have vehicles um I think they it's on I think it starts on page 44 of my copy of the town vehicle policy the IRS reporting requirements for um employer provided vehicles are pretty stringent so probably a sentence somewhere alluding to the fact that the employee is responsible for reporting uh or complying with is IRS requirements relative to business vehicle usage or just a line like that should be included then then the last things on page 56 under the employee grievance and dispute resolution um so under I you list what are typically valid complaints in under e examples of those complaints include discrimination basis of race color religion national origin sex sexual orientation uh gender identity any kind of sexual harassment harassment CL complaint needs to be reported immediately and this complaint procedure dispute resolution is not the vehicle for which to do it it should be under your separate sexual harassment policy because any kind of um harassment complaint has a Time Clock associated with the day you first found out about it so going through this procedure would really having them go to the supervisor and then the department head so some language to the effect that um because you have those I realize that's out of out of under the language right out of the statute under e but to make that more generalized maybe you just pull it out because anything to do with that kind of harassment has to immediately go to the reporting officer and sorry my pages are again are so different than your it's B employee grievance and dispute resolution letter uh oh is that one it's one displine e grievance resolution 50 oh there I got it yeah so for me that's 48 yeah they're just I think CU we had so many versions and so when I printed this maybe I didn't print every track changes prior version so anyway okay and then the last thing again related to the the paragraphs in that General section B when um someone has a grievance or a dispute it says go to the department supervisor then go to the department head and then go to the appointing authori the Town Administrator so we have to have some language if the complaint involves one the supervisor or two the department head so who would that be the complaint if first directed to in the event that it is the supervisor of the department head and I'm assuming they go right to the appointing authority or the TA but need language you need language to that effect but so would it that section e about more or less when it talks about the complaints of discrimination is is that already included in our sexual section so in the appendic where you have the harassment policy it is so if we just strike the section e is what you were thinking well there's some other things you need to include in there I'm just saying take out the ones that relate to your harassment policy and all right okay gender discrimination and the other things so you know the the underlying intent there is that stuff needs to be addressed immediately not through a sort of I filed this complaint and I sort of told you and then you chat with me and then I mention it to the chair a week goes by yeah and then I'll just step in do you have any comments on any of the I didn't have a chance to go through okay I mean I I feel we still we still need to or continue to read through them I need to read through them again myself if it's there's an awful lot in there it hasn't gone out to the department heads yet um so I feel where at the point where we might as well get it out to the department heads so that everybody can start to critique it it again as well before we move for a final yeah I I completely agree with that at our first meeting I think I just gave Brian my mark up because it felt like it be too nitpicky to go through every little stupid bad citation thing and I kept a copy of it but that's kind almost irrelevant now because we've gone so many steps since then but most of my comments were besides bad citation circling a section saying are we actually doing this because it just felt like for a town with this number of employees this was adapted from a much uh yeah so I would like to do that one more time um just amongst us and it won't be as bad as it was the first time and I think all the nitpicky citations have been cleaned up so that's one thing that I'd say I'm willing to do when you're going to have to really be the one who answers it but as much as you can tell because who knows what the other departments are doing but um at least we wented in on it and the other thing I want to say is you're right last time I did look up the statute and Massachusetts statute Su I just want you guys to all remind me to it does still say Columbus Day not indigenous people today but a bunch of our neighbors like surprise surprise ammer and others have taken individual votes change to indigenous indigenous people's day but the statute still says Columbus as far as I can tell I'm pretty sure weighty is a one of the communities that has voted to change it but I I could be looking at an old copy of the statute so don't let me because I don't want to stick in Columbus if we if if the state has actually changed it doesn't look to me like they have when I look at the statute online that's those are my comments okay all right well then basing on that um I would recommend that we at this point in time send that draft policy out to department heads and continue to review it and we'll continue to discuss it our subsequent meetings all right the next item on the agenda is to review and discuss the first draft of the FI 24 salary Sur shouldn't be f 25 yes no this is the current that's the current number um we're looking at going in this that's Cur right y we discussed that last meeting I didn't make copies of the um salary survey that I need last meeting um so I don't know is that new copies since we already went over it well I guess if this at this point in time we need to we can go down through the list on a a one by one basis um certainly the Town Administrator position fact the fact it's being advertised I don't know how the select board you the the three member committee came up with Joyce do you know how that range was how it's being advertised came up uh no I do not I do not happen to know um so I mean at the moment since it's most likely going to be a contract negotiation anyways I don't think we need to do anything with the Town Administrator everybody else with that yes yeah okay um on the administrative assistant I know that Brian had written a letter I don't I don't have it here to address an additional responsibilities do you don't get it I have it in my office okay well I mean I I feel we should should have that we should look at it do you want to discuss it now I don't good I think we should the administrative position now is thanks Jess um you know just so everybody here knows that that position has had additional responsibilities I don't know to what level but I'm assuming that I haven't read the letter I just know there's that letter from Bri had drafted yeah my understanding on day two is that um the administrative assist to select board and town administrators taking on a number of additional responsibilities and um the pay rate is not comparable to similar position in surrounding communes and Brian as his last act asked that that rate be reviewed and increased Jess would you mind making copies of this for everybody some well then we can us okay well then dress is taking minutes let's just wait a second until she gets back how is day were you were you on vacation so you didn't actually start when always on vacation I'm retired but um I went to LA last week for the first time ever nice and uh I wasn't checking up on you someone someone came to pick up my materials and he knows when he said yeah she's not here yeah I came back on the red eye where were you at la Santa Monica yeah well not a good time to go the weekend before the Oscar crazy were you impacted by the rain there uh it rained like buckets the first day we were there but um it it was nice the other day yeah yeah I had never ever been in my friend was at a conference in San Francisco and she said I know you've never been I'll fly down to meet me so I'm good I'm good the one question I have is would these would this additional workload be permanent does it say that in there I don't think it's this this is the first time I I saw this today so um I think when I spoke to Brian this was for the interim okay and for when we hire uh a permanent person to get them up to S pretty much so I don't think it's permanent I don't know the time that wasn't really disc much have you done anything in changing with the amount of hours you work nope I am currently 24 hours under the admin condition I also in the assistant town but that's five hours that's a separate right that's a separate yeah so I I already knew everything that said that is great about you and here but I'm just questioning how uncomfortable it might be for you to be sitting here while we talk about I know it's a position it's not you when you have elevated the position and all that but I just not sure protocol about talking about it in front of for what we I don't I feel I don't feel uncomfortable um like I said Brian I had very much briefly discussed this this was a minute conversation um a week before he even sent this email so um I don't really know what his thought process was I the kind words were very very kind um but I don't really have much of a a say so or or an opinion other than um I I agree with him that I I should get a race how much this is a general comment not just for this position how much do we consider that the person in a position may be going above and beyond or or are we setting setting the the salary for the position kind of regardless of who's in it yeah so I don't this is all a little bit awkward for me not withstanding your gracious words because because this is my first year the Personnel committee where this been it just I'm not even sure what our role in reviewing the salaries is today maybe you could help at least me with that um well to answer your that general question usually what we try to do is it's been our goal so to speak just to make sure that that our employees more or less stay in in the middle so to speak and so when we look at what the actual median is and if and if a position is like drastically below the average then we attempt to bring them up to that average so you look at that last column if there was a position that's six or eight or 10% we usually say let's bring that position up to up to and make an adjustment and that is before anything happens with a cola the cost of living adjustment if in this case um you know it's already listed as 11% above is where it's presently listed and that's why I'm wondering if if we're in the position where this is a temporary additional responsibility and and whether it should be some type of temporary adjustment some other way other than ad I don't know it's so other than Jessica specifically is our goal here today to make a recommendation to the select board about what we think new pays not counting Cola but new base pay should be yes and every time a new employee comes in isn't it the watered down version of a new Town Administrator that you you kind of pay based on experience or is that not the case to some extent yeah to some right to some extent again what it comes down to and the way the reason this has been done this way is um it's just to try to keep our positions comparable to the towns that we choose for our selection assuming the responsibilities of the position are right and that's sometimes very difficult and that makes you know that makes it difficult because the town clerk in one town may have a little bit more responsibilities than the town clerk in another town um and we sometimes will have an individual employee come in and point those kinds of things out and say well the reason I feel I'm entitled to more is because I'm doing this whereas those towns you're comparing aren't doing that and we'll take it on a Case by casee basis if we're talking about sorry if we're talking about temporary additional responsibilities keep in mind the budget that we're talking about now doesn't going to effect until July 1 at which point hopefully the you know administrator position is filled we should be thinking what would should we be thinking what will be the responsibilities of this person as of July 1 we can then talk about is there anything we can do in the interum to make her whole for doing extra work but if the extra work will have gone away by the time this budget comes into we should know that yeah I'm I I I'm a little cautious about wanting to increase the pay rate to to that two or three doll which would then make it even higher and then have the trickle down effect where someone else that might be working in this building feels slighted and says well i' I'm doing a great job too and yet I'm still only at 5% over now you've just made this person 20% um I don't know the other thing that I'm debating with myself is is it relevant that the same person is serving the role of the administrative assistant and the assistant town clerk so the same skills and experience if we're talking about the person rather than the roles um with two fairly different compensations yeah I'm not saying we should cut the pay for the assistance but believe me that's not where I am but okay if she has X number of hours in the day is it more in her favor and I'm talking about her in general yeah not the just would do this to spend more time doing town CL stuffff because she get pay yeah I mean there that is a huge disparity of 22 versus 26 the hours are pretty set though when she's the five hours are full in that office okay she's not bifurcating them but um so we're in the middle of budget right now getting ready for town meeting which I've never done here and Lynn hasn't done for a while um um so the level of expertise I think uh and experience um required to do that and sort of pick put the fingers in the Dyke while during this inum period I think is is fairly important um I don't know Jess I don't have a a a a a person in the fight here but um I think it's really important that we maintain the consistency in the select board and the town ad Ministry off during this in time and that when the New Town Administrator comes in um that role is going to be so critical to he or she or they when they come in um that um which is admittedly an interim time frame for this recognition of a higher level of um duties arguably um typically like for the select board meeting tomorrow night Brian would send the packet and combine it directly to the select board just did that to me today because I was getting ready for this meeting you know and I couldn't figure out how to do all that today um so so little things like that that are just over and above so um not knowing the pay R ranges or anything Keith or whatever but um based on Brian's recommendation and the fact that um it's for a short-term period of time um you know I think it's worth considering to your point it is the position not the person but also in that same ve somebody's taking on um extra duties of a higher level requiring additional responsibility um I think that merits additional consideration you're always going to have the issue that Keith alludes to um about Equity among staff it's so much harder a town like this but um you know the most organizational history we have right now is with Jess and and and ly's here two days so um I think that's important to consider especially as we do the warrant and and things like that um for the next at least four months and um and it's unforeseen so um it would be like a reserve fund mostly I guess the select board will return that under this fiscal year as opposed to next fiscal year right right because you're you're making a case for this fiscal year yes the one thing that I would add to that is Will Jess have additional responsibilities regarding onboarding and know doing more for the New Town Administrator to get them up to speed because I understand you and Lynn both turn into pumpkins on June 30th I certainly [Laughter] do um that's a hard question to answer because we don't know who that person will be right um it's possible if be a very easy and quick transition um if not I mean you know maybe it's something to revisit once we know who that person will be certainly if that person's not starting July 1 um then that's an answer right there that Jess will become quite vital um but uh you know certainly I can only speak to the next 30 days so yeah so what are our options here because can we request extra funding until the new budget kicks in because clearly there's more responsibilities now well we would we would make that recommendation to the select board and then that's there that's the right but does that have to be voted on since it's impacting the budget does that have to be voted on by a special town meeting or anything I think reserves is right that it's a temporary kind of special situation but how about finance committee since I'm on that read and I happen to have a good sense of how it will be received there do it have to go through them or not yes because it's Reserve money right Reserve Comm cor who ultimately votes it select board select board votes it and passes on to finance oh select board votes if your board comes to us yes it's the department that has the so if assesses had an issue they be would do it and goes to finance so whatever no I feel everyone here should be paid more I mean I've said that all along which is why they're about to kick me off the finance committee but um this is a I agree with you when I see what do I see 11% and 25% over the other towns that's that's a lot and you're going to have a hard time getting certain people to see with those percentages there and I might even be one of them given that I think everyone's underpaid but also we don't want to lose anyone who's taking on extra responsibilities and in all likelihood will continue to have to take on extra responsibilities after you and ly Le but so I'm on both sides of the fence I really don't know where I come down I I probably would agree that just knowing how things seem to work that going forward once she takes on on that responsibility it's not likely that she'll be able to wash her hands of it she will probably continue with it into the next with the next Town Administrator she'll probably I guess I'd like to know a little bit Joyce what your thoughts are on on this since you're you know from a selectboard standpoint you're muted Joyce thanks um I am still kind of trying to wrap my head around the the whole thing is this really a temporary pay bump or I mean for the kind like the example that that Trisha gave a moment ago um seems like that's something that the New Town Administrator will take on you know there that if this is really a transitory thing then and that you know the responsibilities aren't going to be maintained then we handle it differently it's not a matter of changing the rate for the position it's a matter of coming up with a stipend or Cen might not be the right word but um uh some kind of a compensation for this and I don't know if it really comes in terms of extra hour because there's it's really extra work um but uh I you know I'm trying to figure that because you know it the hard thing to do the hard thing is to justify to a finance committee um somebody that's already above you know the average that we normally compare to um we would need and I think in the past we sometimes an employee will will go get the information um how their job is actually kind of different from say the people who have the jobs that are kind of in the lower end of our our average and why they're really ought to be in the upper end and I don't really know how to get that information for administrative assistance um uh because I bet that job varies a lot from place to place um but I think the the interesting thing to me is that if it's a if this is really a temporary thing it doesn't really have to go to the finance committee in the same way right it's uh it's something where we're recognizing extra responsibilities and duties and we we figure out a way to compensate this person and then if that duties and responsibilities go down after we transition to what I hope who I hope will be like some really awesome New Town Administrator that will I don't know Sav the wound of losing Brian uh um you know that then that you know I I feel like I don't really know which way to treat it because I know you know you get a bump and then that bump goes away and you're not going to feel good about that either I feel like I'm just blathering on here no no that helpful I don't think there's an easy answer right and I can definitely be persuaded but I guess my instinct is um you know if she's able to do as much as she can in the designated hours and not be feel totally taken advantage of every employee on this list even though I'm happy to see Whitley in such a good percentage relative to other towns very hard to compare what other employees are doing in the same position other towns as everyone has said I guess I'm inclined to keep it on the table for now but of course that's not my call that's just my gut reaction is that having we don't have to go to finan community so good but um seeing 25% over and 11% over the other towns yeah I I guess I feel like we're in the ball park and we don't have to decide it on a sort of interim emergency basis but I haven't been here long enough enough to know what protocol is this is on the agenda for tomorrow night so open I I'm sort of inclined that I'll use that word that you use Joyce to stip and that she perhaps be looked that to be compensated for the additional work that labor that you know knowledge and things that she's having to put forward and responsibilities and then if if it can continues that way well then maybe the job description needs to be looked at going forward and make an adjustment going forward but for right now maybe we wait and see what the select board does yeah I agree we don't have to resolve this which is the 25th budget tonight tonight um the more pressing matter is is there an inter site right and that's right exactly more importunately is between now and the New Town Administrator is approving six additional hours three three in each well or that I don't think she I don't think there's needs to be more hours in the assistant clerk does it no it's just in the um in her position as the administrative assistant that's a good point if her responsibilities have been increased do her hours need to increase can she do the old job and the additional tasks within the 24 hours oh we can ask she's here do yeah do we is she in a feeling where she can take on working additional hours is that I don't want to tell her oh that's the only way you're going to get paid when she then says well I really can't work more hours I don't know I'm sort of weighing this in my mind that if she increases hours at the current rate in order to get the work done her weekly pay goes up right if she gets the additional work done within the scheduled 24 hours then should she be compensated for the extra work that's the catch catch all because maybe she has she can be much more efficient on the task compared to previous and we should recognize that you're [Music] right yeah I think that um I mean some of this will eventually be um um kind of taken care of by the oh I'm trying to what's the name of the thing not a salary survey um weren't we wage and classification yeah the classification work that's going on and this is the last year we have to do this problematic comparison to other towns thing and I think a classification system would benefit somebody who's uh like really doing well on their job and taking on more responsibilities and so on a classification system would help um and it would help differentiate between someone who's been doing a job for a couple years and it's there for really efficient and good at it as opposed to a new person who might still be training um so I guess I I just put again that this is uh something that may we may be on the way is solving with uh with that classification study or survey I don't remember which is the right word for that I I guess to sum up my thoughts is that she should perhaps be offered more hours in the interm as the additional workload and then see what happen I think everybody gets that that there's additional workload and and that more hours is the The Logical way to respond to that but um that's maybe that's taken the easy way out we want to ask her that question of the hours the hours needed to perform the function sort of how I think it you know it might be more palatable to some of the conservative Financial yeah if ours are changing but the salary is not is [Music] that yeah I think it would see that's then I think the finance committee definitely at that's what we were wondering is would you for the additional workload have issues as far as taking on more hours to or do you feel that that is not appropriate for you uh what are we talking about more hours like do you have an idea in terms of hours or like would it be like up to 40 would it be just we hav we we didn't wanna I wanted to ask you because if you were in a position where you say I I can't work any more hours I have other commitments yeah um I I feel as though I I have hours to give so there are spare hours of my time where I have that option see what we're also wondering is will any of these additional responsibilities that you're being forced or not for being asked of to do [Laughter] now will they continue when the New Town Administrator comes on will how much of that will remain yours responsibility and how much of it will be taken back on by the Town Administrator I think the plan is to have the Town Administrator take what was take the load from me I think right now I'm just here as not a buffer but as support until we can get somebody right up to speed so it's more of a temporary yes situation which is why we're looking at trying to think of a way of doing a temporary so for the time being if we increase the workload in hours then we can revert back at a later time we're also knowing how the the finance committee looks at things and when we make a recommendation that changes the hourly rate from where they're already going to look at and say where it is already percentage wise they've got to agree with that too yes and that is not always easy we know in so I I'm feeling like we need to increase your hours and then that's where we're back at that square one as far as deciding how many additional hours per week now would you just be increasing my hours with no pay adjustment that's that's what we're discussing at the moment you know this again the scenario that we're looking at is when on on when we base are looking at the numbers it's 11.16% above the the actual median in the towns that we're comparing to and that's what the finance committee also is going to look at so if we increase that like what Brian is saying $2 to $3 an hour that that percentage above goes way way up and then we also have to then look at the how that the trickle down effect and then what does the other employees all of a sudden looking at saying well I'm you know then they're going to start to feel I think we're much safer to say let's give you more hour hours the original job description has 24 hours to get to get the work done correct with the added responsibilities how many hours are you actually working or do you think you'll need to get the that additional work done too I think it truly I don't think it would be I wouldn't need more than five hours to truly feel like I'm I'm not extending myself you know right now at 24 hours with what I have on my plate along with um the finance the Personnel the I'm also the community preservation um with all of those things in the assistant town clerk I do feel like my fate is slightly not overwhelmed but would the hours for the admin for 24 for what I have on my plate it seems a little full for 24 hours so I'm not opposed to having more hours for that position so using your number just to do the math if we 20 if we went from 24 to 29 plus the 5 hours as assistant town clerk that's a 34-hour week which is realistic it's not yeah we're not now talking about a 50h hour week um from a budget impact standpoint point and again I'm just arbitrarily using your number of five to get a sense of what we're talking about $113 a week something like $113 faster than I well it's not GNA would those five hours some of them be for the no this only for your 24 would go to 29 yeah so we're talking I also I don't know what the plan is for the um permanent ta and if we're looking to get somebody as qualified as Brian is but I wouldn't be opposed to continuing continuingly or having having those additional responsibilities going forward right and having the TA command and I still be that support and some capacity and that's where the job description perhaps changes would take place which then we can document an increase in an hourly rate much easier yes it's just a lot of unknown right now you know definely and also Susan had made the comment that a lot of what we need to try to talk about right now is current fiscal year whereas yeah this is not until July 1 the so um tomorrow night obviously the select board will discuss this because it's on their agenda too but um I'd be inclined to then think our board we should at least make a recommendation on an increase in hours for the interm time frame I agree with that I agree with that okay does anyone here to make any specific motion uh I might have to Wordsmith it for but I I moved that Jessica well I'm sor know that yeah position the position of administrative assistant was filling in in our temporary Town Administrator position with a lot of extra duties that she be uh that the position be awarded an additional five hours a week through the end of the fiscal year so from 24 hours a week to 29 hours a week I'll that I have a motion made and seconded before we vote on this if that comes to pass is that acceptable to you I hate for us to accept something that wasn't acceptable because now now we're talking about you a person versus yes up until now we're talking about a position yes I I appreciate that it is acceptable I think be being at 29 hours would definitely be beneficial to all of us including myself to give myself some more time okay we can revisit it in a more comfortable way hopefully it sounds like we have a bigger discussion of once we all the pieces are in place revisiting your job description and then setting the salary any salary adjustments based on an adjusted job description direction to go that way I think that is the right Mo and I I do agree with that okay okay in that case thank you sorry so we have a motion made in second to increase the position of the administrative assistant 5 hours to 29 hours per week in second I'll do a roll call vote there is first of all any other discussion okay hearing then I'll do a roll call vote Joyce hi Susan hi Betty hi Brenda hi and myself I okay that passes your name thank you so the next step is that goes to the select board tomorrow select board will have to take our recommendation and act upon that all right so now we'll go back to the to the regular list and um so Brenda you would ask the question do you understand basically what what we do with this how you know we look at the position s if any of them are drastically below the median average the actual median we try to make we vote on whether we would make a recommendation to bring it back to average yes I do understand that thank you um so as we work our way down the list the first position that comes up under is the library Library director looks like Library directory minus 4.66 we know if that's explained by hours or demands or any of that kind of things weight Le Library director works less than other towns or is that what we're comparing it to the other the median of the other correct I do not know well it's an hourly rate that wouldn't really matter it's an you're right right and again this is the position where we I believe in the past have actually let the library trustees right make that because because it's where um we can provide this information to the library trustees and then they can make that yeah you're right decision for their budget um the only comment I'll I'll make about you know in the position of the highway superintendent is that the the policy that the select board took on when they gave the highway superintendent the additional role of being the building superintendent is that they do the um 8% over the average median which is do you remember that Joy how that was yeah I remember making that calculation right so it's so just basing it keeping it in line with what has been done in the past that would just needed being adjusted to 8% over yeah um the next ones that are definitely under is the um operator labor um you're closest to that what's your sense on that the you know again one of the things I pointed out last last meeting was and there's a current opening posted right now in the town of Hatfield and um they're they're at their range of 2658 to 2906 is what is being offered um it's a scenario where towns are having a very difficult time in getting applicants that have not only the CDL license but the hoisting license that goes along with it um I spoke to um Bob Kish from Kish oil and he told me he pays his driver all of his drivers are making $30 an hour or more and in their case they only need a CDL license they don't even need a hoisting license so um when I look at other towns around I'm seeing many of them struggling to obtain drivers I think it was yeah it was col reer charmont recently had to go to their town meeting and transfer money out of their salary account to hire a private contractor to work this winter because they can't get anyone to come work for him and drive the trucks um so it's becoming um a challenge and um you know I sort of did some some rough numbers in my own mind and I feel that um I came up with for the the low end I came up with a 2708 08 that's that's medum factual yeah okay and so if we actually come up to that and we go with that 2708 the other thing that the town of weightly has presently is we offer after you've worked three years as an operator labor you get a little bit more which was um that's an additional 3% and that is so that if once you started to um become more familiar with the ins and outs of the job you were recognized and got a little bit more than someone who is just coming in off the street so is the 2494 listed here the starting rate or the average of people at that rate and people who've been here three years to get the B that is the bottom the 2494 is currently the bottom right now I I have a 24 94 and then the other employee who has is in that one is over three years he's making 2576 so that's that is a three 3.3% difference between the two of them and so that's why I would recommend that we go with the 2708 for the for the an entry level which is at the median actual and then anybody in the three plus would be at 2798 which is that same percentage that we've been working with now and then the subsequent thing with the senior operator um presently there's a 13.11% between the entry level and the senior operator and I would recommend keeping that same percentage so the three numbers that I came up with is 2708 for entry 2798 for the three years plus in the senior operator at $30.60 those are the numbers I came yeah that's interesting that on here the median for the senior is actually lower than the median for the oper and see one of the things that skews that a little bit is um in this case we don't call our senior operator a foreman and yet it's a little bit of that responsibility as as a senior operator to be in charge in my absence um whereas some communities have a full-fledged format weightly does not um and so we used to have a position that was no there was no senior operator it was just a foran and then the town chose to eliminate that position and call it a senior operator because it's not a true forming position they're not always taking another crew and going in so um it needs to be recognized in the aspect that it does have additional responsibility but not the full amount of responsibility that a foreman would have I'm fine with your recommendation I just am making the note that senior on here senior operator is going to look like more of a jump over the median but we can't have the senior operator making less so my issue is not with what your recommendation is is with the senior operator the way it's listed on here having a lower salary we shouldn't be judging against that we should be judging in my mind against what we're looking at for the regular operator above that yes and again the only explanation I can say is that in this case when you look at these positions on here that are looking at the senior operator I guarantee you they're not taking into any account of being in a respons in a in a somewhat of a forant role in my [Music] absence because there would be a whole another section of when you look at the burog study there'll be a whole another section on any to I have for minut oh there's more towns with the oper it just doesn't make sense mathematically that the senior operator is coming out of the lower medium I think we have to kind of dismiss them I'm good with your numbers as well okay um did we since the other one we do we need to make I can't remember do we need to make a vote on each one of these we yeah since we've been kind of going by consensus as we go along it might be one vote at the end vote at the end but I'm certainly open to voting as we go along we I I mean I feel we can just do one vote at the end as long as no one has a specific issue as we on one I don't want to make it a yes or no is it specific enough for you taking notes Jess on we just went through three statuses and three new numbers which yeah you have it clearly yeah we'll just do the one vote at the end then okay the next one that's really out of skew is the fire chief um and again that is a brand new new position that just started last year um that those numbers are we we have a few of them that are um that Jess you have highlighted in the blue because they definitely are full timed yes and they're not counted in um like the little uh numbers over here so I don't think Brian included those in like the med did okay remembering correctly yeah those aren't included so whatever's highlight in blue is not um included in the actual right I came I came across I'm looking at the yeah I these the font of this is smaller it's the labor I think the fire chief is good yes it is now it's the labor that's 28% below okay the fire the fire chief should be high yes that was a yeah and sorry it's just the way I drove like my eyes came across the page yeah so it's a labor position it's minus 28% and again that is a part-time position um very it's not a common position that ever ever gets filled um so even it probably wouldn't hurt for us to to bring it up to the um to the actual median and there may be some years where it won't even impact the budget at all because it most likely if I'm hiring anybody it would be a part-time operator not a part-time laborer that makes sense to me that's fine okay all right so then police chief that's a contractual so that'll be up between him and I don't know where his contract is and how it's written I think it's another year or two away it's three years at a time the fulltime police is about 1% under shouldn't we bring that up to the medium we can do that well yep to keep it in line with what kind of uniform yep yes okay so then that would go to that median um now the one comment I'll make you know we don't have any numbers good numbers to work with with the water superintendent but one of the things that happened last year is after town meeting the the water Commissioners took it upon themselves to increase the water superintendent position to the point where he's like the highest town official in the town and there's some questions as to how the funding is even going to work out on it it's another scenario where we don't have any control over what goes on but he's presently one of the highest paid officials department heads in this town and will making more money than most likely even the Town Administrator will be which just doesn't seem right but that's again that's a choice that the water Commissioners made but anyways I just wanted to point that out that we may have it in a roundabout way I sort of think a ton of ministrator coming in looking at what other employees are being paid in this town May question the range that they're being offered and say why should I take this job when might buy it more responsibilities than some of your other employees and yet you're paying them more than is that an issue either the finance committee or the St board can address we cannot address from what you're saying right know can the finance committee addresses I mean who does the water commissioner well you what ended up happening is they're operating without town meeting funding so I don't know where it's going to end okay so it doesn't go before town meeting then it wouldn't be a for issue well it technically does go before town meeting uh it's just that their funds are not they um direct they're they're operating funds dayt day uh are not coming from our property taxes are coming from their fees now it wouldn't be completely true to say that they they don't ever spend any taxpayer money because there is there you know there were the loans there were various examples of things where the water system especially when they were first getting started was not self-funded but we've moved to a point where it is mostly self-funded at this point but because of idiosyncrasies and the law we do put their budget on town meeting and it gets voted on there yeah and these changes were made after the town meeting that's that's the problem yeah so I don't let's we don't have any there's no comparison there other than you're trying to compare up and down the column yeah just again it's something that some like especially a new Town Administrator may look at and say why why are you offering me less money than what other department heads are getting so anyways y um the next one that is definitely below average was the custodian so to me 62 cents an hour and we're having an idea that we're trying to bring all of our payments to medium so unless there's a reason not to treat it uniformly I would say for 62 cents an hour unless there's some reason that I don't know about the that that somehow ends up not being Equitable it seems Equitable I feel it is everybody s okay with that one is there any any of the other any of the other ones that anybody wants to discuss Okay then if not then guess I'll entertain a motion to make a the adjustment as a whole unit can it be done as I make a motion that we adjust these as as noted or do we have to go through the one by one I think to bring everything to the median and maybe read off the three that are different than bringing it to the medium because it's a specific dollar amount that was because we're slightly different don't you think so we could read those three the 278 the 2798 and the 3060 if I heard your numbers correctly you want me to try that can you make a motion or do you not want to make that motion I know if I have your title I as chair I mean I have that option I want to make sure I get theway superintendent yeah I would so Highway abstain from that any motion want to make the motion I wrote it down but now I don't have the match okay uh hold on let me make sure I have the right I make a motion that we increase the hourly rate for not sure I'm lined up right is it doesn't start with Highway superintendent 2708 am I right before I read it Operator Operator laborer yes okay operator laborer be increased to $278 an hour and operator part time three the threee plus that oh sorry right thank you three plus so uh 3 years plus increase to a rate of 2798 and Senior operator which is how many years is a senior operator or is that a position who is sort of semi foran I guess okay senior operator acting as a semi foran be increase to $30.60 an hour right yeah I mean ask you okay and that was those were the ones that were not per se the the first one is the medium and the other two are different than the medium and the highway and adding to that the highway superintendent is 8% above the median everyone else is brought to the median but the highway superintend so you could add that in your motion and then follow St and the highway superintendent to be 1% above the medi 8% above the median to a salary of 84224 30 34 think that I was going to make sense when you listen to it it'll make sense to me you got it yeah anybody else they might not but the superintendent should we add the reason that it's 8% above which is as previously agreed upon to compensate for the responsibilities of building superintendent is that what it was yes that's what the agreement with the select is right but just to have that as part of the motion so if anybody questions why is it 8% uh you saying I should amend the motion to try to incorporate that I think it's you got it into the meeting recording I think I minutes it will reflect what we want to say thank you I okay so I motion made second in second and to make those adjustments I'll take a roll call V Joyce hi Susan hi Betty hi Renda hi I and myself I'll abstain so it's carried okay now I think we can do a motion to do everybody else that was below average to the median does that sound right yes okay I'll do that I'll make a motion then to bring everyone all the positions and I'll I guess it's best to read them off first one that we did the correct me if I'm wrong the first one will be the full-time police officer then the part-time police officer and the custodian those three am I missing any the library was going to be left alone and left that beate motion for ch right all right so just to reiterate a motion to bring the the full-time police officers the part-time police officer and the custodian to the median the actual median second on that second okay motion made and seconded any other discussion if not a roll call B Joyce I Susan I Betty I Benda I and myself I okay now we got on the agenda should be what Thea want [Music] to do we want to discuss it you know I'm gonna have to duck out in about five minutes okay um I think we should at least if we don't want to make a decision tonight that's probably fine but I think one of the things that um i' like to bring forth and I and I had I had asked that be included in our packet and that was a couple Pages out of the um the housing production plan that was just done for the town of weightly and these numbers are this is all a report from 2023 so the numbers are all good and and accurate should still be good I mean in the the few things that I wanted to point out when we look at our colas is what it costs to live in weightly and especially like on this page 32 when you look at um necessary income to afford the living C and the point I would like to make sure people start to realize and are aware of is it seems kind of odd for us to expect our some of our employees to live in weightly when what we pay them they can't afford to live in weightly and you know I realize in many cases there may be dual incomes and things like that to make things better but um certainly we have one or two positions that are that presently are elected where you have to reside in the town to be employee and if we're looking at such a disparity in what the town pays versus what it costs to live here it's just something that I feel should be thought about a little bit when we make a decision on our up when I saw these numbers I thought it was you know it's you know it's it's kind of startling to see what it cost to live in weight Le and I know some of the cases like with me with the highway department unfortunately one of the high highway department employees is still relatively young and lives with his parents however everybody else that I have and they can't live weightly for what they make and so like when we look at response times when we look at our firefighters our police officers you know if we are having employees that can't live in the town because they're just too expensive to live here I think we need to look at that some way somehow so that's why I had asked that these couple Pages be put in um this whole report is just that is online right that or is that I believe it is online I think so I mean it's it's some really interesting information if you ever have any time yourself to take a look at I can also send it to you guys if you'd like have a full report but um again it's just something that I would like to have in the back of our minds when it comes to discuss going on yeah in the finance committee we always get comfortable what other towns around us like the salary survey we just got which is you know becomes something of a Bible not exactly but um not even enough of a Bible but yeah so that would be interesting to see because a couple of years ago didn't they raised like Social Security or something so we had an actual figure on that which was pretty big raise and then we had the local colas and that was helpful to okay because that's always a fight with Finance Comm I mean there's no secret there that's right no you're right but do does everybody on the finance committee do they know what the necessary income is to to afford you know that's well in my two and a half years on Ence committee I've never seen that information come through but yeah it's just some food for thought to to to realize and we can't expect our employees to um I mean I know it's getting late if we want to send another meeting up and we discuss with Cola maybe we'll have some more information from other towns but why don't we talk about setting another meeting since the col is not on our agenda does that work for everybody yeah is it midnight for you Joyce or after it is just turn midnight here yeah but it's going to be worse and like in a week or so we Chang the clock so it'll be an hour another hour different oh dear your sport Trish going forward or Monday night's good for you uh yeah because Tuesdays are out I have select board and finance so yeah Monday's okay that's what we have been working with lately I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't okay uh are we thinking Monday a week from now or two weeks from now I can't do either of the next two weeks I could do April 1st April [Music] I'd almost be inclined inclined to go with the first it' be helpful if if we have a little bit more idea maybe what some of the other neighboring communities are or because I I really think that the finance committee will like they'll want they're going to want to know they're going to ask that question oh that's like the Bible they haven't asked in the past them to do we try to make a decision before we have anything so right I agree with that so April 1st April 1 is f that good for you Joyce yeah every Monday is uh every Monday night at this time is open 11 o'clock for you then uh are you well um right that's starting at 5: Eastern Time 5 Eastern okay okay yep all right so April 1st 5:00 pm thank you everyone um motion to adjourn okay okay since we're on Zoom I'll need to do a roll call Joyce I Susan hi Betty hi Brenda I myself I okay thank you every