##VIDEO ID:Xrvv37gkF0k## e e e e e e e e e e call the meeting to order roll call May ree here BR here Nelson here Davis here sches here bagly here osus here Butterfield here Brian eight present one absent council member O'Brien is excused stand for the pledge i al to the fight of the United States of America and to the for stands na indivisible andice any additions or deletions to the agenda motion to approve the agenda second motion a second do we have a discussion I have um three people that want to speak or just one just one okay um so that will be we'll take that maybe we'll take that um right after this motion roll call Council MOS I Nelson hi I Davis hi sches hi begly hi Osos hi Butterfield I seven eyes all right first first off um I had a request from Pastor Tony to address the council um he said he'd be short when a pastor says going be short or brief never never maybe three points maybe more good evening mayor councel my name is Tony freeberg unless you're wearing a uniform and then it's Anthony and I'm a pastor of a church and moving to Wilmer almost 17 years ago uh God has opened the door for me to serve the community as a Chaplain with the police with fire department where we were just at a call and with the county sheriff as well as for corporate entities in in Wilmer I also serve on the Fortress board and on the HRA board and that is who I would like to speak to and four tonight the issue before us is is is homelessness and that is a CommunityWide issue if you were at the mayor's prayer breakfast last may you heard a young lady speak to the sacred settlement issue which they are undertaking in the St Paul they've worked with the state legislature to pass laws to enable churches to put settlements of small tiny homes on their pieces of property and they were very detailed in how that had to lay out in our community we do have several entities that do work in the area of homelessness we have Family Promise and they work with families then there's the United Community Action Partnership which build is building that unit across of across from Bethesda or Woodland centers again those are focused on families which which is a great need a great need but a piece of the pie of homelessness that is left out of those formulas is the one of singleness young single people or older single people employed have jobs but they just can't afford the rent in town and so they're living uh in their cars I encountered one of those not long ago an officer HED helped take care of that situation but it is prevalent in our community whether it's knocked at your door or not that is I'm going to stand here and tell you I've come home and had fortunately somebody that I know but she was sleeping on the sofa in our house so it is out there and my wife and I have encountered it on many many occasions but the singleness single homelessness is an issue about a year ago Captain ronf felt who was with the Salvation Army was here in town and he was interview on the radio with JP Cola and near the end of that interview JP asked him is there an issue in Wilmer that Captain felt had felt it was just U being ignored or just it really needed to be addressed and he mentioned this issue of homelessness he said we don't have a mission if there's you encounter a homeless person on the street who you going to call you're going to call 911 there's very limited availability for what they can do and then they will call a pastor and I have God has called me to be a servant in the community and I answer my phone whenever it rings and I do my best to help but in this area of the tiny homes the state legislature has laid the foundation for that to happen again in the church realm churches can take a piece of property that they own and modify it to fit the the state guidelines but Mr Mayor you might remember the conversation probably six seven years ago we were having with the mayor at the time Marv Calvin and he shared with us he drew it on a napkin the idea of a community tiny home settlement he didn't call it a sacred settlement that was way before this evolved but it was on Marv's mind and heart back then that this is something that Wilmer needs to embrace that we need to bring forward to help in this area of homelessness and it's tiny homes so it's they're meant for single people and so I would just bring that again to you I was here at the last council meeting and I know um Audrey Nelson you you mentioned the the dollars that were allocated you think verbally for HR and we're looking for a real commitment from you tonight I believe that with your help a tiny home settlement community supported is a possibility for Wilmer and so as a member of the HR H board and Jill who is our director I plead with you to help in the area of homelessness I appreciate the monies I've seen allocated for the computer upgrade in the city and I'm sure those employees help you or or appreciate the help I know the fire department you're going to appreciate the new radios okay but I would just ask as you allocate whatever funds are left that you think of the homeless people in this community that we are community-minded yes in the Pastoral role that I am in the chaplain role but you as the city council that you will Embrace this as a call thank you thank you right um we'll go to the AR ARA funds Kyle thank you mayor good evening Council so tonight um this is really a continuation of the conversation that I presented to the council at its last regular meeting uh as information only on arpa we'll talk about CIP here after our upper conversation and then after just a general overview or general conversation on the budget at the end of the meeting um but really just again to overview um what has already been uh discussed in ARA or discussed the last council meeting that was in your packet I did also include really a breakdown of memo to the council breakdown of v arpa um has been our funds have been spent so far this year in 20 from since 2022 um summarizing that there's approximately $254,000 that remains to be allocated and obligated before the end of the year summarizing the end of year reporting uh requirements for arpa and then the question that council member o asked at the last council meeting what we have uh what has been spent on Tyler Technologies since the approval of the contract so just real brief on that uh September 6 22 the city council approved the resolution entering into a contract with Tyler Technologies these for were for annual memberships in the amount of $150,000 um with Professional Services not to exceed $51,000 so if we move through the council packet um specifically table two in that memo is a breakdown of the Tyler technology expenses from 2022 to 202 for as current as last Thursday nove last Wednesday November 20th I believe um so just wanted to provide that information to the city council that we've currently spent uh approximately 737,000 dollars of arpa funds on Tyler Technologies on Tyler technology um that includes three years of annual implement or annual uh membership or subscription cost plus implementation cost believe if I scroll down a little bit more you'll see there's what has been spent in implementation so approved was the 51,000 what we've have spent so far from the implementation is approximately 264,000 and then we do have in that resolution um if we need to we can spend up to unless the council changes their mind another 236,000 out of that that's not necessarily saying that we are going to get to that amount we are Curr ly reviewing that contract to see evaluating all the services that are being provided and mod uh it's a full enterprise system so if um if there's an opportunity for the city to eliminate a module or put on hold a module we could potentially not incur any of those costs until a later date so that's being currently evaluated now going back up um I guess I'll I'll pause there are there any questions specifically on Tyler technology Tech ology um thank you so the resolution we did was for 500 and so the resolution was for the annual membership which was a fiveyear contract of 150,000 in change $1 15,897 plus an additional half a million for the implementation cost and if we and I didn't put it in the packet but that count that September 6 meeting is the entire uh contract with Tyler technologies that details in line items out each one of those expenses and gives us that total of a 501,000 for implementation and that's the part I would um I was speaking on at the end was that's what we're currently evaluating to see if we can pause or eliminate any services that we are or do not need currently or may not need in the future well there is one in particular that we will not need in the future so there there is not a reason for that ever to be implemented so the $700,000 figure you were quoting that you said we've that is what uh that is what has been spent since 2022 through nove November 20th on Tyler technology that includes Professional Services the implementation Cost Plus the annual subscription fee so it breaks down to about if you go by membership it's 472,000 um Professional Services right around 287,000 we do actually have a credit of $22,800 that has that is in process so we will be receiving that money back questions comments just all the figures are different the one up top is 748 this one's 737 what we passed and just trying to sort through what's an annual or what's the okay yep so I'll go back up to table one so that was Tyler Technologies table two specifically so if we go back to table one that is what has been reported to the US Treasury so this is all arpa expenses that the city has approved in spent um through um through this year so uh if we look at the reporting periods so they're March 31st reporting periods every year but th those dollars spent would have been from let's say April 1st 2022 to March 31st 2023 that's the reporting period so some of these expenses you would could have seen in year prior so if you look at um I believe would be the reporting period for March 31st 24 council member Nelson is what you're referring to 748 so that number not only includes Styler Technologies but that also would include uh any any other information uh systems projects that we would have had doors cameras server updates anything under uh uh Jonah Johnson's Department would have been included under that General techn technology of upgrades so not all Tyler correct so just the payments to Tyler were 73 I wanted to break that between table one and table two yes so there's another 9,000 to somebody else yeah so you can see and and well I'll break it down a little bit more so we have technology upgrades each of the reporting years so if you look in 23 24 and then what we'll report in 2025 there's technology upgrades that include T that would include that table that Tyler technology table plus any other technology upgrades would have done so door like I mentioned door security Cera servers all that all that type those things um so this is just a a breakdown of um what projects the council has approved where those dollars have been spent and how we have reported those to the uh reported this the arpa funds back to the treasury so we have spent approximately 1.9 a little over 1.9 million this C he received received uh just under 2.2 million um so round number is there but our exact number as of November 20th is $254,200 we were supposed to get the software for efficiency and yep yeah that's a great question I would it's I would say it's probably hard to gaug at this point since we're still in the implementation process of it um but we know for example we'll have a software that we're current our old Financial software that'll be coming off um that's we won't be being paying for that anymore um but there will be efficiencies I absolutely can me personally I already see efficiencies of when I want to run reports or look up budgets or look at specific departments um I don't have to call finance and ask them to run a report for me I can do that on my own I mean that's one a generic example so yes there will be efficiencies there's more to come in 2025 I would say especially on the more public facing Civic engagement piece where there'll be more to roll out in 2025 on how people can report issues or report problems too so there'll be there's still more to come and that's why um that's why those dollarars are alloc ated back in 2022 to it's a it's a long process so did have we paid for all the software then that we need and it's just the annual meance that's that was the 150,000 portion of it that's the yearly fee we're still paying for implementation we'll still have implementation costs in 2025 or other modules assets that are coming on lastly another how many, that's a good question I don't have I don't couldn't give you an exact dollar amount but um tens of thousands go ahead Les thank you the software that we've implemented with Tyler technology I would like you to remember that it's just not finance and that's I mean we have public works and they're using it for uh work orders and they're also using it for inventory justtin and I were just talking about it this afternoon and and um so staff is at first hesitant about the whole process but now they're really getting into it and understanding it more they're using their mobile phone to get work orders they're the inventory in the public works in the mechanics shop and that that's changed over and they're using that system also so all these things then also support the finance besides where before they were separate and you couldn't have any integration there on any of the what inventory the mechanics were using could not talk to the software that we were using and that's what all this is all about and before the software we're using we couldn't have anybody work from home this software staff can be at a conference they still can go to they still can go to the Tyler Tech they can still do work through that process they can still approve things if they wanted before that would not happen so this has there has been lots of efficiencies to this I would say also in that regard it's brought us into the 21st century and um it's cloud-based so like I said everybody that's a director that has to find some information or whatever they can find it just by going out on Tyler Tech and doing that right okay so I'll keep moving on now um so I guess the question while we're here tonight or one of the one of the reasons we're here tonight is to have a have the council have continued conversation on arpa and how the council would like to allocate or spend the additional $250,000 uh before the end of the year um previously I had laid out that there are a handful of eligible produ projects that the city uh foresees being used for arpa uh that included Tyler Technologies uh um $150,000 to the HRA as well as some unfinished playground work uh playground U project so uh specifically I wanted to talk about the um the HRA so we have um had a great meeting with the executive director Jill bangston uh the yesterday uh my day is getting my days go long now or or going long but um so that was a good conversation that staff had with HRA staff uh just to really get on the same page and have an a great understanding of what the county uh approved L Housing Trust uh and does and that that Housing Trust document was included in your packet I think one of the concerns that some council members had previously relayed on making that commitment or that donation or that giving that money to H was having the lack of local control on where those funds would be spent so if you look in in your packet um it's on page three of the candy County local Housing Trust Fund policies and procedures it's under page three so under the donations page here under the donations section I think would give some comfort to to answer that question so specifically looking at that last sentence at the bottom of the page donors or in this case the city May restrict their donations to a specific funding activity of the trust fund uh continuing on a specific category of recipients or specific Community or Township within candy County um and then ends with the board of the Commissioners reserves the right to approve all of those donations so essentially what that means is that if the city council would like to uh continue to move and allocate funds to the candy County H Housing Trust or the candy County Housing Trust it can specifically restrict City dollars to stay in the city of Wilmer for projects you would like to see um so I just wanted to put that precursor as we go through this Julie I feel like we committed the 150,000 after the mayor's housing task force and all of the work that went into the housing study that we committed for that so I feel like 150,000 should go for that um I guess if it if it's okay Mr Mayor is it is it okay for me to ask if there is a consensus from the council to to look at using the 150,000 or city of Wilmer funds to go to HRA that'll kind of determine how I would like to go next and how information I'd like to present that's fine I I still have the the concern of whether or not we could keep it in the city I be forward if we keep it in C and I'd make that station yeah I believe that I mean if you look in the packet um in that in their policy and procedures uh the donor in this case the city council um you can limit or specify where those dollars would be spent I understanding that corre that is correct there would be a separate on um thank you Mr Mayor in in response to your question about looking for a consensus I'll uh I'll agree that I think that that money has already been committed it I think it's it's well needed um I think the the H is the right place to to send that money my only uh asteris to my my consent in that is that I might want to spend more than 150 I'm interested to hear what other options exist for arpa but I I might want to make it more than 150 okay you're a great mind reader Council so um let's say um hypothetically or if if there is consensus or a future action from the city council to approve um at a later date or at a regular meeting that a formal resolution would come to make that contribution to the HRA so can we at least just get a ensus yeah and then so we at least know okay now we're dealing with 104,000 so we can move forward I have more for you okay so um so when we're talking specifically about housing um we're going to introduce something new it's another pot of money that the city of Wilmer started collecting in 2023 uh from the Statewide affordable housing program uh so since 2023 2024 and now in 2025 the city of Wilmer will have approximately $245,000 to spend on housing uh there are housing or Housing Programs one of those eligible expenses is transferring funds to an HR or a Housing Trust it doesn't have to be specifically an R but it's a it's a Housing Trust uh so there's there's two pots of money now specifically when we're talking about housing there's there's the arpa funds that we had originally had talked about and now there's the Statewide able housing aid that the city and other out statement cities have received over the last two years and then again there's a new certified amount for 2025 so funds from this program uh they must be spent on qualifying projects by December 31st of the fourth year after the aid was received so four years after we would receive those money so 23 24 25 that's why we haven't been dealing with this been hearing about this right uh so so those funds would be considered to be spent uh if the following conditions are meant are met so if the city is demonstrates to that Minnesota housing that the city cannot expend funds on qualifying projects by deadlines due to factors outside of the control of the city and if the funds are transferred to a local Housing Trust Fund funds transferred to a local Housing Trust Fund must be spent on a project or household that meets the affordability requirements a lot of those requirements mirror what the requirements are in the uh the C County's Housing Trust Fund so there's there's a good match there so currently we have $22,000 available um that could City dollars that are available in that Statewide affordable hunding Statewide affordable housing aid with an additional $43,000 will be certified to the city of Wilmer in 2025 so what does that mean um we've got additional pots another pot of money where we've got more needs we got more arpa needs because I want to tie this back to arpa we've got more arpa needs than we've got dollars available when you add in Tyler technology HRA playground equipment Etc but we've got this other pot of money that could potentially go to the HRA without having to impact the arpa funds which we can't take 2026 I'm sorry which isn't available until 2026 Statewide housing yeah it's available now we've got 200 it took four years we have four years to report it how we spend it okay so if if there's an idea on if if there's a specific funding source that the council would like to use on specifically to help to fund a HRA if the commitment is today and it can change of course 150,000 or dollar X to HRA coming from the Statewide affordable hun housing aid uh that frees up the burden or the the unmet projects for arpa the arrest of the unmet projects arpa okay so we have the 202,000 that we've already collected um did we have a plan for that we had we discussed where that was going to go well with the comprehensive plan that we're working on that's part of that project and um the draft is being done right now and we hope that the comprehensive plan will be presented to the Council here in January late early February at the latest um and yeah there are projects within the conference plan that could use funding for from that housing money we are working with various opportunities also I mean I'm just thinking if we were to take the 150 obligation to the county or the um and then that only left 52,000 left um are we taking away from something else that was that was that money was supposed to go to I mean we're not stepping on anybody's toones those projects are still being developed because of the comprehensive plan and all the work that Christopher and his staff have been doing on that and and the engagement and the conversations they have had with the public so those things are still in the works and that's part of the comprehensive plan so I can't tell you how much we would need okay but there are you know there have been discussions about using the housing funds for those next projects and how can we in an informed way say that we're going to spend 150,000 out of that if there's another need for it if there's a possible if there's a if that was supposed to go for something else and the comprehensive a plan we can't say we're going to take 150 of that to go to the county one if there's another plan for that I just want to be able to make an informed decision about that pot of money yep does that make sense right yes okay and I can't tell you I mean we don't really have what dollar amounts those are going to cost us from the comprehensive plan yet I said that's still all developed um is Christopher is Christopher gonna say take my money I will say it's up to the council's um discretion of course right when it comes to the 150,000 I understand there was a prior commitment um to it if we have more um ass than we do money for the ARA funds and if Council wants us to use 154 housing initiatives to go to the Housing Trust Fund then um I think that would be appropriate and not all of it um but we should have some funds left over to do implementation of housing strategies and even some of these projects that come out of the comprehensive plan Christopher would still be working with the HRA to use those funds because they are going to be dedicated funds to the city of Wilmer sure okay so I feel like what the groundwork you're laying for is to ask us to find a different source for HRA so that the 150 that we were going to spend on HRA out of arpa can go to Tyler technology as an option yes yes and so Tyler technology is currently in the mayor's proposed budget for 2025 correct yeah and when the last conversation we had about this I asked you does that mean we get to reduce the budget and and you indicated no which I because this is an ongoing expense if we take it out of the budget for 2025 we're going to now have to find it for 2026 and so I mean before we get too far down this road I just want to say I'm opposed to using the arpa funds for Tyler technology for that exact reason because the funds are in the budget and it would be better to have those funds in future years coming out of the budget as well sure unless there's something I'm missing I can clarify that a little bit there are funds that we can use for Technologies if arpa is not a a viable Source or an approved Source we're still planning since this resolution from 20122 was approved we were still planning and budgeting in a budgeting for most of it to come out of arpa for next year however there so there are going to be funds coming out of general fund to help that are going to have to come out of general fund because we know that there's not going to be enough just an arpa alone to cover those costs if depending I Cav got that depending how this What scenario what options are left so there are some funds in general fund if we have no money in arpa to put towards Tyler we will have to make some adjustments but we won't have to raise the budget necessarily to to pay for arpa we might have to take away from something else can I just um clarify then when we first started a lot of these conversations ations about oura we wanted it to have a significant impact that would have a long standing um ripple effect of of use of the funds so when I think about um housing that could be housing for the 20 or 30 years when I think about playground equipment that's playground equipment that's going to be around for 30 plus years um that makes sense to me um and and I and I get where the technology also is something that we're going to have for 20 to 30 years um so that's I mean that's but I also agree with that's a that's a that's a city budget item that is going to be continued and I I I agree with it being a a yearly annual budget um that we're going to have to um account for I'm I guess for me for the arpa funds I'm more with something that's going to have significant impact for many years um that's a one-time kind of project that we will see the benefits of right and then a lot of the discussion that we had okay a um I'm supportive of using 150 of the arpa for the HRA housing fund and and waiting um that to make a decision an informed decision on the money that we've gotten from the state that needs to be used for housing um and I support working you know I think they had a good meeting I think working with the H is the right way to go when it comes to housing and not for us to develop our own Department kind of thing and um to do that equitably and so I would say the 150 for arpa and and um Tyler technology is in the budget um and that and if it's not all in the budget then you need to tell us do we have to raise the budget to to do that because that's what you told us last time was it was in the budget was yes and I wanted to clarify that thank you council member Nelson so in your in your worksheets or in the in the arpa worksheets the $150,000 payment is scheduled to come out of arpa the implementation costs were are what is going to have to come out of the general budget for 2025 and how much is that until those until that starts I can't give you an accurate number it'll be tens of thousands right on the balance of as on table two that Kyle Hasler of the Tyler technology the $51,000 was what was projected from Tyler technology for implementation the balance yet to spend on implementation is $236 and rounded and um there is one program that we don't plan on implementing so we know those implementation dollars I can't tell you off the top of my head what those were but it was a very big it's a very big uh part of the cost so I would I would say that there's some savings that we're going to have right there we still have to finish implementing implementing the planning and development section we don't think that doesn't isn't scheduled until July of this year to be finished so there's lots yet on that side um we have the asset management side that is not complete yet either staff has done some work on it but it is not complete yet and we still have the finance Acer which is our reporting system for our finance side so that's for sure three things that I know of that have to be completed um e ticketing for the police department hasn't been implemented yet they have had training on it and um but it can be implemented uh shortly now because part of part of the eting was also based on the Planning Development side on the um the gis system so that'll all they like I said they they complement each other so there's a lot that has to be done so I don't see a lot on the E ticketing side that needs to be done anymore uh maybe just a refresher so that's about $1,400 because it's a based of if something hasn't been implemented does that mean there's going to be an additional cost then to implement it that's part of that $237,000 yet that we haven't spent okay those implementation cost Tyler breaks it down on implementation cost for each each module that we're taking on so there are still dollars in that 236,000 that would be part of the implementation cost that has not been spent yet because we haven't completed them like we've completed our finance system our finance is done and it's implemented and it's up and running but there's still part of the finance such as Asset Management that has to be completed and the AER which is a reporting system um I'm just curious about how we make these decisions on what we should Implement um I know I know that I've asked this question too about um people being able to um log in a complaint about something that's going on in a certain location without the neighbors knowing that they reported or those types of things and that I've been told has been coming for a long time so is that part of what we're still having to do implementation costs for but who makes the decision of what pieces should be implemented for what costs I mean if we can't afford to do all of it right now how do we decide that and you know I'm I'm still hesitant that we should be using that arpa funds for that because I agree with council member osus about our commitment to something long long term you know kind of of thing with that but I'm a little lost with I get the annual annual um amount that you have to pay but that annual amount is going to go up for each each time you implement something too um that's a fixed fiveyear cost but fixed fiveyear cost I believe so yes or but even on so you're paying the same am out whether things are implemented or not yes yes so this was an entire review um this again this was in the September 6 council meeting all of that information was reviewed by staff presented to council and that decision was made to use arpa funds to pay for this project this is where we're at okay can you go down on this on this page down see okay got it if I can I ask so if we use the 150 for H MH and is the request then to use the rest of the 104 for Tyler technology playground equipment right I would like option I would as an option I would still like to see funds come out of arpa for Tyler Technologies for 2025 that would be a staff recommendation so how much were we talking about for playground equipment I believe it was around 7,000 do we have to have 87,000 Council can make the decision on what they no I'm just saying to do a park what is that one Park sure I'll if it's okay if park and rec director is okay answering that question yeah if we did a park like what we just did here at valleyside it's about $87,000 to redo a park um but we could do a smaller um Park what we looked at it was Southfield park because that has Park equipment that is in a unit of that is fairly good shape there's some pieces in there that could be replaced that we can do a smaller piece there for a lot less cost trully I just wanted to add that at the park and wreck meeting um you know obviously we were talking about the Park equipment and the philosophy of trying to finish Parks you know instead because what happened before was we tried to spread the joy and so this one got this piece of equipment that one got that piece of equipment so spread it out throughout the city everybody was happy but then you have some updated pieces some newer pieces and so now kind of the focus is going let's do a park finish that Park and move on to another one and so that was one of the options was the Southside park by Bernards um that um finish that one take out the the old equipment put the new stuff in um and that would be for this year right and then what was the cost on that then that was the it it depends on what type of apparatus that we put in there um I mean there's a metal slide in there that should be pulled um it's for safety reasons but if we just got a smaller unit if you give me a dollar amount we can work within that budget but the 87 was for well large piece for someplace yeah so if we did a full Park a full Park CU that's what we just did at valleyside the full Park okay um Rob in in the packet here I I seen something earlier on on lighting and fing for the Swanson field Parks ARA funds be able to be used for that those projects or or not I would imagine whatever the council decides to put those dollar Ms to but um it would not pay it would not be enough money to pay for the lights or lights for for blue or for green are going to be between 280 and $300,000 each each and how much was it for the for the mesh you know on the back stops because green is one of my biggest concerns out there yeah um we had a placeholder in for the CIP for $50,000 for fencing improvements um we're looking at that to doing that over the course of the years because red needs a new back stop green like you said um yellow those three that needs uh fence improvements and so does the outfield on Baker need impr so we're putting $50,000 in there for a threshold or allotment so we can build those funds up so we can get more of the project that's in the that's in the CIP about two $60,000 for each field for lighting I would say 280 to 300,000 for each and then uh for each field then for fening you're looking about 50,000 correct J thank you Mr Mayor um as I'm listening to the arpa conversation I'm just I'm coming to kind of rest personally around 150 to HRA the 87 to playground equipment I mean we've cut this back from CIP in the past couple years knowing that we were you know committed to that playground money coming out of arpa and then that remaining you know $17,569.13 about doing the playground or playground equipment right because we ended up a few years ago with some peacee odd colors don't go together don't look great um so I think if we're going to do that I like that idea of just doing one and if we pick a smaller one um you know maybe we can shift the little funds with that but we made a commitment before to always have enough money to do a playground in the CIP and we're not doing that right now so I think this is an opportunity to do one more and um look to whatever figure that is with the with what I didn't do the math but um coming up with what's left over to Tyler technology so Rob about the the playground can you if we we give you $40,000 would that be enough to finish South Park in an appropriate way where I don't want to short the park I would imagine we can get you close to that and I just threw that number out there I don't know but um so that we have more money to give to Tyler Tech and don't have to find as much then in the budget but like I said I don't want to short the park either so or was the to finish out two parks that had been peacefield if we got the full amount yes that's what to do is to do zal South Field go to GES Park and finish off GES Park and that's the 87 what where how was that figure24 though right 87,000 that this has nothing to do with the CIP for 2025 we've only done one Park this year right correct because we had we had a commitment of $175,000 in the 2024 CIP out of arpa for the parks and we have 86 nothing to do with 2025 okay that's that I just want to make that clear Council just what your comments were um with your math um obviously staff will follow the direction of whatever the council sets the parameters but we do this in the general fund budget we do not have the annual cost of 150 plus $236,000 of implementation costs in the general fund to fund Tyler Technologies next year so we again we were planning on using majority of those arpa 150 implementation costs to pay for Tyler Technologies out of arpa which was previously previously approved by the council in 2022 correct so I just want to state that we can obviously adjust and move but we'll have to relook at the budget right I'm aware of that I feel like we've we've over promised the money that's currently left right um and so I would say that my priorities are H and playground equipment prior to Tech ology for the arpa funds for much of the same reasons that I think council member osus has has stated previously so Rob you're just looking for $887,000 all of the arpa funds for the two parks to finish them off or yeah that's part of our funding that we have right now currently in the AR so if we took 150,000 ASM for that we're still going to have roughly about $155,000 left out of our 17,000 counc had mentioned yes a question Mr Mayor Rob how how busy is that Park up there by Menards it's a big open area yeah um there's 10 soccer games that we play there for the soccer association so it's when we looking at our it's busy in the summertime um you know it's got the basketball court there and a shelter there so on that on that side of town the next Park is going to be Hilltop and Cardinal Park so there's kind of just look at quadrant light we are getting really close to being finished um with the park improvements it's just that the um the prior director went out and just did the small pieces and then we're kind of looking back now like at GES Park that it needs to have the swing set or the mar go around or another apparatus in there because there's only one little piece there um so we're kind of getting to the tail end of doing the Parts like what we did like at Valley side now we're just kind of trying to push back to get into those other parts and really finish them off yeah this Hilltop is basically Hilltop so it goes for a couple of miles each Direction north and south east and west wouldn't most of the little kids go to Hilltop because you just did that a couple years ago there's a shelter there with bathroom and yep it's that's another park that's it's popular there because of the skaer in and I know that you don't do the playground as much as but it's we just have Parks every eight blocks I think is what what the um study set so I mean we just look at like where should we we got the dollars where should we update yeah and you got an apartment complex right next to old people there not one is the other one's fames not really but that Park the South Park is basically for baseball or softball and soccer you don't get that many little kids there I don't believe unless they come with the parents well it depends on what you have there too if you get a novelty type of item the kids will come in play so if we put a zip line there kids will probably will want to come and play there a lot of the parks don't have it so now we got two zip lines well three with destination Valley I got the new zip line and one the South Park is reallyy I live over there and I think it's busier than Hilltop there's a lot of people there you're closer to the hilltop that yeah I am but I I go by you know I go to Menards I go by but it's pretty busy okay okay what was the other consideration for the arpa funds that was it that was it Tyler H and okay if I I think I have a a general idea of where the council is leaning um just know that this will likely change the budget for next for Tuesday's for next Monday's meeting I don't and I can't give you a number tonight it's G to reduce it then right yeah no so okay so to try to stay in budget then and not have to raise what we had already done why wouldn't we take the 150 out of that 202,000 that's where I was going I know why okay Council why wouldn't we do that I know other than the previous conversation but I also said that technology is something that also is going to affect us for 20 years and we've already given them a major chunk of our arpa to the technology think just discussion you know and my answer to that would be um you know we have sale of property and Redwood uh coming up I think those dos without going in increasing the budget we can use those dollars to address the Tyler technology one time cost and not take money from housing doing anything else takes money away from housing which I think is a a primary concern for the community I agree but just go back after what the council member a said about sale of that property put that money towards streets would be a lot better than put towards technology our residents are visit visitors can use the streets where they're not going to be able to use technology I mean this Catch 22 I I'm big on the roads and lowering the cost for the taxpayers when they get assessments that money could be used for that too I would think the Redwood property sale will be large enough that we could use it for both but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you um I'd like us to stay with the plan for the playground equipment and the um lead the housing as it was talked about use the balance towards Tyler Technologies and in we still have some work to do on the budget we have work to do on the CIP I don't believe that the 450,000 that we left in the budget necessarily covers some of the CIP that we maybe need to do and so I think there are other things that if we put this to rest and then look at what the next thing is how how bad are we hurting ourself by not putting more CIP money maybe we do have to make an adjustment to the budget um with that but maybe there's other things that we should be cutting out of the budget too so and you know that a different conversation but I'd like to see us put the arpa money to rest by not using that other money and having the opportunity to make decisions about that at the time I would like to avoid trying to find money for Tyler agreements after we move money around have like you said want to avoid that I'm not sure how we avoid it because the money isn't there no I don't think we we avoid it we avoid trying to find other monies later on after we set the budget oh after I got it got it we do we do it now we talked about it now yes I agree I don't know who was first go ahead Julie okay so um so one of the major goals for tonight is we have to we have to make a decision on AA funds that have to get spent by the end of 2024 Council osus yes don't necessarily need obviously it's a work session but direction for us to bring back a resolution for the council yes for the end of the year whether that's December 2nd or the 16 yes right okay then then I'm with the what council member o proposed is 150 to HRA 87 to park and wreck and that leaves us 177,000 that could go towards T Tom just from listening to both sides where pull the money from to go to uh h what happened we just split it the 150,000 gave 75,000 from this and then took 75,000 from 22 that's still going to leave plenty of money from state revenue coming in to do a couple projects over there and uh I think as win-win we're just not uh throwing all our eggs in one basket and we can divide it up and split it up evenly and now we reduce uh $75,000 that we're going to have to come up with from there but we're still giving H $150,000 that would leave 92,000 for Tyler Tech if we did 75 out of ARA 75 out of what do you call that F it's the Statewide affordability okay housing a I check the need was 150 that's the annual cost yes but you're talking about I'm sorry I'm thinking you're talking about being more short than that correct so we're not solving the problem by doing that no but we're reducing the problem and we're not taking everything away from the planning you know for the Planning Commission on comprehensive plan taken a little bit from that but not all of and then we took the full 150,000 from that 202 left going to leave them with nothing I think it was 43,000 in 2025 we're looking coming in I think it's a win-win that way if we just write it up you know we're we're split down where we're going to come up with the money and I think I think uh that's a pretty fair process on going forward with this I think I'd still I I think I'd be I'd be opposed to that but again the way I look at it is we have $352,000 that's designated to housing which when we talk to members in the community at least when I talk to members in the community it's a it's a primary need I mean it's right up there with students is I think and two and we're taking from housing which is maybe even we can use the word crisis to implement technology that we can find other ways to do that we can reduce I've yet to talk to someone in my work that's really really concerned about the technology at City Hall um the staff doesn't live in my word apparently and I'm not saying it's not I'm not saying it's not important without technology you wouldn't be able to call City Hall see it's win-win then you don't get angry people calling you no they come through the doors yeah I just I can't support anything that's taking money away from housing well where do we go from here uh Mr Mayor members of the council we'll obviously continue on with the agenda as planned um but we will um hle tomorrow as staff and come up with some alternatives for next Monday's uh truth and taxation year jul I feel like we need to make a decision on the arpa funds before we move forward that's what I'd like to do yes so but just getting back at council member ask we're not taking reducing the housing they're still going to get $150,000 but say currently in my opinion we've promised h 50 from arpa yeah and the same fundings at 202 Y and that's going to go that's going to go to I'm saying that's 352,000 for housing you can't have any of that that's all housing well we don't know we don't know what's in the comprehensive plan yet she hasn't filled Us in we don't know if that $352,000 202 is reserved for housing that's coming from the state it's already with the city that part sir yep but can you tell me what that money is going to be used for for housing Jill do you know there's just a lot of ideas floating out I mean I single family housing getting more single family construction is an idea I don't want to put you know words in anyone's mouth or sound like I'm committing to something because everything is just ideas and conceptual and everything is also pending a lot of State dollars that still need to be unrolled which are coming out now in 2025 but of course you know the housing study has a big need for single family housing and a lot of that is not being addressed yet so that is one thing is that kind of fair to say that we're talking about and um I think we'll I'm just G to just leave it right there more to come my guess is you can't say any final yes I have a plan for that because you need to know how much you've got and say okay we can plug in 150,000 in this program yeah not trying to be evasive but there's still a lot of unknowns you know there's where what what land is available where could we put a project together what are those costs going to be are prevailing wages going to affect a project or you know how big is it going to be what are what are going to be the requirements of some of these other funding sources to come out that all affects the development budget and then is the operating budget going to be able to support that so there's just too many unknowns yeah okay I'd like to see us stay with the housing money as we talked about it and playground equipment as needed and for the staff to come up with a plan with how we can do Tyler technology I do think we need to keep it but if we go that way we're going to have to come up with the all that money out of the budget for this uh technology correct and do we have 100% of that budgeted for in in the budget counc Council Butterfield no not 100% of that is in the general fund again we the annual subscriptions was budgeted under arpa for 2025 the implementation costs some of those implementation costs for 2025 would have had to come out of general fund so we'll be looking for approximately $150,000 so we have to make some or Bud housing is a problem that we have we need to address it whatever way we can is yeah I got you is there any he can call me Audrey I'd be honored is there is there any staff that needs to to address something to help us Christopher I want you to he wants to say something um do you have a specific question or I'm just help us do you want that 202,000 touched or do you have plans for it what I can say is that um you know there's a certain population that HRA serve and we're happy to partner with them on those initiatives I also feel that from a city standpoint we have a gap too so we have some programs that we can Implement to assist long-term owner occupied residents and we can also find ways to make sure that we have um you know when we're talking about affordable housing it's not all affordable housing done through the HRA and so I know we have housing needs here and there's different tiers to different programs we're also having a lot of rental housing that is being built and so it'll be very um I'm interested in finding Solutions where we turn renters into homeowners and making sure that we're keeping um our population happy and residents have opportunities right here in Wilmer so um I think we can serve both and I know Jill and I were're both um passionate about housing and working together as well just make sure that we have programs that are not limited um that that we're offering an array of of different programs that can be a partnership if that makes sense I don't know how this goes together but I met with Kaye Kayla Kayla from uh restore the but we talked about lots available and there's very few lots available but there are some lots that are that have the um sewer and the water all run to those lots already out in Valleybrook is that out by um Word of Faith Family Church back in that valy Brook isn't that what it's called and there's what is there six Lots five five Lots might be six if you could extend the road a little bit that have the infrastructure already that's a big part of it and if we've got the infrastructure and we've got money going towards housing I would hope that the two of you could work together to develop a plan to have some buildings U some homes added to our housing stock um I think if we work together we can we can help the situation of lack of housing available can I speak is that okay sure you can say we speak yep yes okay not what I came here to do just to be clear um I did have a wonderful conversation with the H this morning actually um I came from a state level so I worked with Minnesota housing and work with HUD funds as well um that is my background and I've worked with a lot of and a lot of counties that have had to make this decision of what to do with their upper funds and with their Saha funds which is the state affordable um I will say that putting it in a trust fund is the general consensus of a wise move not that my opinion holds a whole lot of weight on that department but um it does allow us to be able to have conversations in the future um as to what we can do with that that affects a lot of agencies in town that can make an impact so thank you let's just move on to C Julie um aren't we going to like get a consensus I would like that yes on what we're going to do and I'm back I'm back to 150 to go to housing 87 to go to park and wreck because that's what's left and then the 177,000 for small timler technology how many think that that's doable then we got to figure out 130,000 133,000 out of the budget or red or red correct yes I'm in favor of that that would be the logical are we going to be logical who's feeling it isn't what's that who's feeling like it isn't who hasn't wait in here think we can move on I can't until I know what we have to figure out we have consensus yeah do we yeah okay I thought some people were being mute not committing we can't vote I know but I haven't se head shaks from about three four people I'm on board with that okay all right May thank you Council thank you Kyle all right Capital Improvement plan 2025 all right thank you Mr Mayor members of the council uh um administrative Aliant had passed out a uh the large piece of paper in front of you with the capital Improvement program for 2025 listed and I think um we had spoken at a work session to initially roll this out in uh August and there's there's more asks than there is um proposed funding um in our general fund we're proposing $450,000 um the asks originally were right around $2.5 million after that work session there was um some reduction uh by some council members I think what we should do here now is let's just go through line by line item by item and just um get a yes no if we want to push some of these projects off um with that there's more more than likely going to be more asks than dollars allocated once again but what this would give us staff it would give the staff the direction of what projects are going to be highlighted um that we could pursue with the funding later on um and then along the way um a lot of the directors are here that are in charge of these department so if there are any other questions or any um more details the council might want Julie I think first what I would like to see us do is um figure out the ones that we absolutely have to address so the Ada requirement ones like the bathroom and the elev if those are things that we're going to have to address then let's take that right off the top and then we can start doing some of the others that would be my suggestion Audrey thanks I'm on the same I I'd like to see us address wants versus needs because I think we had some of those conversations and some of the things that that are still listed in here I think we had talked before about no that has going to have come from somewhere else and they're still listed in here so what is something we need to do versus something that we want to do next year Vicky Tom did I understand you wanted to start at the top and go down the list that might be the easiest way versus bouncing around that's what I we could we could identify the wants and needs along the way yeah that as well okay okay Justin just to understand council member Nelson are you saying that in your opinion there are items on this list that aren't just a it's the yes later or just an outright no take them off the list we don't want to see them again find money somewhere else is that I I think there's some of both um I'll use the the softball baseball complex The netting it probably really needs to be done but there just isn't money to do that and that was a Sal local option sales tax funded project that we did made decisions not to use to do finish that so I think that one has to go find money somewhere and it shouldn't be in the budget so both Carl uh Tom on some them like the airport I know some of their stuff is is Grant matches if we cut some of that do we lose grant money yes but thank you Mr scheldes for your question and on some of that that is a correct statement um however all not all these projects are and and Mr Box can maybe elaborate a little bit more some of them are are um different Grant years as well so but I I'm I would agree with you 100% to not foro any um federal or state dollars on the grant match okay just I want to say something and I I don't know I'm looking at the list and the electrical remodel on the auditorium we don't know what what's going to be done with the auditorium how serious of it did I I don't know what what okay what we should do I'll I'll I'll bring it back you wanted to start from the top I I jumped you because I just thought we I thought there was two or three things that had to get taken care of and that we would just circle those and say okay let's take off that $215,000 and then know what we're dealing with what's left but let's start at the top and work our way down all right so the hanger access road construction and make Mr Box you can you help all of these airport with the the fiscal years of the federal yeah absolutely mayor council so if you look at the lines one two three and four um well I'll exclude everything but line two is funding I don't have it's not on the screen in front of you I didn't uh scroll far enough to the right but in your handouts you'll see that there's federal and state aid funding coming in for the hanger access road construction project was which is a uh ending application the council has already begun work on line three which is Runway 1331 the lighting replacement the council has already approved the design portion of that contract and then we'll be looking at a potential uh application for a grant FAA grant for tea hanger design and construction uh specifically on line three that contract has uh those funds have been awarded to the city uh for the design portion of the project project and the FAA has has increased their portion of contribution from 90% to 95% so our the city cash portion will actually be closer to 20 uh we'll say 25,000 instead of 45,000 um but that would be the only change out of those line on line three there I would say at this point if the council was looking for uh desire to remove any of those airport items it be line item two which would be drainage work in the private hanger area that would be 100% City cash or city city funds to fund that the rest if approved or if awarded grants would be matching dollars um so for example hanger Access Road up to 140,000 of matching funds uh the design and construction for the lighting is approximately $862,000 and the T Hanger design was approximately 926 th000 those would be state aid funds coming in for those projects but those are yet to be awarded except for the design of edge lighting replacement on Runway 1331 did you say that's a different cost yes that was the FAA increased their contribution from 90% to 95% so the local share so the additional in this case the additional five for the 5% difference split between the state and the city so the city um Council approved roughly a $4,000 um $4,000 project for the design that was two and a half percent and then the state kicked in the other two and a half percent the FAA is paying 95% but I understood you to say like the number that we're seeing CIP would be reduced yes to 25 to 25 so 454 this yeah so this number this number includes design and construction so we know that the the design portion which was the $4,000 um we don't know what the the actual construction so we can't reduce that number dang it oh not a lot I mean we know it'll come down some but so the 454 is not 25,000 no oh this is construction also take that off two and a half% less than whatever keep it that was a long answer I'm sorry coun sorry okay all right so if we just did it so we're at 150,000 if we if we kind of roughly if we took out number two the other three we're at about 150,000 yeah and we do I had 153 if I just did it to 45 but with a little bit less 150 is a nice round figure Mr MOX is this your screen that we're viewing that's the podium screen I can Okay jump up there if you'd like I was just wondering if someone could open a calculator and keep a running total for us on that I mean it seems like something that Mr Odin should do it seems like a finance thing yeah if you just subtract so what I'll do here is I'll just tentatively here once again it's it's uh I'll say yes to line items one three and four for now and a no for line item to mve this on to the auditorium um 60,000 for electrical remodel safety concern um I'd say there is there outstanding money in our Capital Improvement fund for the auditorium um but that's also a bigger question of what the city's going to do with the building a roof replace other upgrades you know other mitigation that may be necessary um so this I guess that's a question for the council maybe a bigger question too you know what the what the goal of that building is okay yes go ahead okay can I ask Rob okay so right now I correct me if I'm wrong but um I believe there's there's basketball going on in there there's some pickle ball people going on in there um what else that's about what we have it's early morning basketball and then morning pickle ball right afterwards so obv would say the facility is probably not being used after 10 11 o' daily basis yes Audrey thank you Marice I think the safety concern and if I remember our conversation before is if we want to use it for anything we need to do this right Thank you Mr mayor council um in the last month I would say we had a walkthrough with our safe assure consultants and chief Hansen and Jordan our maintenance person and we um fastened a cage to the wall around the electrical panel so that it is not accessible unless you have a key for that so it's not like anybody can be in there so I would say this is less of a priority right now I I think it's could be part of the long-term question with the building but as far as this 60,000 for right now I I think that can be taken away and be part of the bigger conversation with the auditorium okay thank you thank you on the next two were alluded to earlier the bathroom remodel and City Hall as well as the elevator upgrade the bathroom model is on the uh the first floor um that' be 80 a um modifications to make that ADA Compliant and then the elevator that's a uh a state of Minnesota code change I do believe uh coming down in the next year or two so how long do we have to be in compliance years two years I would say two years possibly three so 2026 s y and and and just to clarify the the elevator alone was roughly 130,000 140,000 I think this was to be a 2-year uh commitment and within two years we would have the money in the CIP to move forward with the elevator project um I would say the the restrooms uh it's kind of ironic because the restrooms downstairs are ADA Compliant but obviously you need the elevator to access them so um yeah the bathrooms upstairs are 8 SEC second floor as well it' just be the main floor yep I'm assuming I mean it could take Council five years to make a decision on City Hall but if somehow we made a quick decision and we were knocking this building over we we'd be in ADA compliance with it in a pile of rubble right agre on the reverse we aren't going to have any more money next year we're going to be raising taxes and everyone all cities are talking this way so I think we need to be careful that we don't kick the can down the road and end up with lots more next year because we were trying to be frugal this year Ricky I agree with Audrey I think we can't put things off that really need to be done part of the reason we're making having to make such hard decisions now it's been kicked down the road okay you want me to leave those two items in there for the time being yes please sounds like it the next uh the next few items are the Civic Center the uh first number eight the Cardinal Arena door replacement so this is going to be on the the same wall as the East wall that's uh the repair that's listed on number nine the these are I believe metal doors and they are um in very poor shape they um don't open or close they're rusting out for a lack of a better word um and they are that would be a that'd be a safety thing it'd be um just a security issue and and it's just time and I I think that this I think staff would recommend to just keep our buildings um the assets we have keep them up up to good shape yeah this is like a chicken RNA concept because there's a weeping problem on that East wall which is making the water come down onto the doors which is rusting them out so um you fix the wall first and then the doors or do you do the doors and then fix the wall later um because we're going if we fix the door we got to get into the header because the header is going to be rusted out as well um so once we dig into it we're going to understand that the door I would say the door is probably the first thing that needs to get done because they are rusting out um we've actually had a replace some of the concrete it's just gravel now because of the heaing that happens there too so um obviously door first and if we have to make the decision on the East wall next year we do the East wall next year i' hate to see us put in a new door and have it leak into it I'm I'm fine with leaving that one both items the doors and the wall above it another uh the line item 10 is the Outdoor covered ice rink that that's um the that's a different pot of money the sales tax cash and bonds um if Council be okay I'd like to stick with the cash aspect for now um so the next one would be the storage shed uh this is going to be as Mr bomgar has mentioned you know it's a lot of Staff time of getting the turnover of the seasons um things out of storage back into storage it'd be nice to have a place to put things that they're not always uh juggling things around um and currently all of our vehicles sit outside um a lot of our equipment sits outside with how much activity is out there um I think vandalism to that equipment may happen just because of all the activity that's out there throughout the the whole year do you want a door or a shed yeah how about a door with 14 how about a shed with 14 doors and Metal s I think that one's more of a want for right now that one is Council okay with pulling that one or you want leave pull that one for now okay uh the next one is going to be at the Dorothy Olsen Aquatic Center this is the zero depth Pool slide it's it's the Frog slide uh this um fiberglass slide has been refinished multiple times um it was just refinished I believe prior to this pool season uh it's just as kids use it uh slide down with life Jack it just takes it just gets worn um and it's uh it's scheduled to be replace here um that's about $50,000 it's to the point where we live with it and it goes out the Frog slide is going to be out for for a while until we can get it replaced and um um I think you've been with with that too is it's getting harder and harder to find someone to fix it um can it make it another year probably but you said probably yeah that's but if it goes out goes out and that is that is a very popular feature at the pool kids ask about a blame Council woman osus because she won't be there next year um mayor Reese did we not talk about trying to get some donations for that also Mr bom is that something you've looked into or we can surely reach out to um the stingray to see if there's any money available or Community funds or whatever so I'd like to see us do that this year and see what we can do Carl we also addressed it at some point maybe bumping up the entrance fee to the Doak to up to $4 maybe and if we say we're doing this to buy a new slide that might make that more flatable to we discussed fees at the park and rack last meeting so was this recommendation to move it to four next is going to be engineering traffic signals plan for $40,000 uh I don't have a lot of backup data on this one Mr uh yes thank you Council um this was originally designed or um designated for a a comprehensive plan evaluation of all our signals within the city of Wilmer they're all um aging and whatnot this this was to have someone come and look at all them and say Hey you know you probably have five years of life on this one this one's good for 10 years um but I feel our staff is very capable of doing that themselves they have a good handle on it we've already started replacing a couple um intersections earlier this year you you approved money for first and trot so that one is done um I pains me to say but this is a want and you can strike it line 14 is gone okay all right then the next few items are the uh Street Improvement program that's going to be paid for once again out of bonds and other funding sources so that we can move down to uh line item 14 The Quiet Zone improvements that was actually a recommendation from council member OS at the work session in August to remove um do we want to continue with that uh removal of that line item and then that's also a grant a a bigger conversation with our Corridor study as well it'll still be addressed in the future so okay line 15 is going to be uh information systems at the Civic Center uh three locations um this is going to be Network equipment and this is something that um is is needed that's a very heavily trafficked building and it'd be nice to have our networking system as well as the line item 16 the security cameras at the Civic Center Robins Island are highly trafficked areas in the world we live in today uh there's more and more um need for um Audi Visual and network equipment um I think they're um leaned on quite heavily for the video video cameras are specifically out at the Civic Center um any questions on that and I believe Jonah is also here if you have any questions for him okay we just want to explain line 15 a little bit better um so in each of our buildings we have a main it's called the data closet that's where the uh Network equipment and that building connects back to City Hall um right now the main Network closet at Civic Center is in the warhawks coaches locker room um kind of stretch for space there it's kind of inconvenient when we to go in and make some changes um it's also not secured so if they lean some hockey sticks up adak and it slips there goes the network connection for the Civic Center so just looking at moving that into a separate area into a lock closet so that people can't get to it and it's kept secure because physical security is also a huge part of network security overall so that's what line 15 is can I go back to that yep okay inconvenient doesn't make it a need for me okay but protecting it can't we put some kind of a barrier around it so that a hockey stick doesn't hit it you built a cage yeah possible yes we can look at do that y y i get it not ideal but we're down to $30,000 left 450,000 and that's that's an easy one okay um line 16 yeah we're way under surveilled across our buildings we've had incidents already this weekend at the Civic Center where we don't have surveillance and it's unfortunate that we kind of have to I'm Race Park was one of those where put it in after the fact so um interested to ask uh Chief Hol if if it came down to surveillance cameras or a second Squad would you rather have two squads or one Squad and surveillance we can't help you if we can't get to the re yes this um is one where I think we're shooting oursel in the foot if we don't do it we need to have those security cameras they should have been at Robins Island for a long time I agree I think that's we need those that's not a that's that's not a it's it's not a want I would tend to agree with you except then we're we're over our 450 but that's a different problem yeah we can go back to it later we yep and just to get back at the reply back to council member us we've already reduced the squad cars from four to two felt um you know trying to lower that and with the way the vehicles are running longer more I can't see bringing it down to one I'm content with we already Ed to two so these you're looking at buying cameras then security cameras y this is for surveillance because checked with any internet providers they might donate some I not aware of too many that do um this is protecting our own property so I might be a a little different story about that but I've heard some do provide okay who's our internet provider we get our internet through um it's called logis down in Golden Valley it's a consortion of local governments that uh we get internet through so just a circle back leaving the uh security ceras in there are we what is the consensus on the network equipment location of the Civic Center remove that and sech for a different way of securing it get a okay thank you for the clarification on that okay the next one down um the 17 and 18 were also removed during the work session at in August is that still 19 council's Wishes then leave those as okay um the kayak paddle board that's also um we'll leave that as is the next is at the Civic Center the protective netting for softball and baseball complex that's at the pin wheel and this would be this would be as if you're facing One Direction and a foul ball comes from another field or an aand flyball of some sort comes from another field this would be uh to protect the other bystanders uh and other Spectators watching it um's wishes on that I'd like to see that kept in uh I've been in a number of ball tournaments and most balls go flying all over left and right it's a big safety concern it's not like lights or you know some all field F this that's one I think should stay in yes um I don't disagree with you I think it's flaw and how it was developed they should have been done as part of the project and I think they have to find other money to get it done I don't think we can afford to do that this year what's a safety concern you have a little kid get hit you can lose an eye and get a concussion so I think what we're acknowledging is if that's something that has to be done we're going to have to change the budget yes would I would I be wrong um in thinking that that's like what the baseball boosters and the softball boosters and some of what that they can come up with Tom well every year is Swanson field the baseball lighting is pushed back back stops can push back that that I can kind of see this is a big safety concern you know they got little kids little toddlers kids and uh baby strollers those balls go fly in there if you had never played ball never gotten hit uh you don't know what it's going to feel like this is a big concern and if we drop the ball on the local opos and sales tax not doing it is because we rushed all these projects through everybody was taking what they wanted to get it through this does need to be done and uh I'm standing firm on 155,000 just just wanting to ask because of the math what we're at right now we're over 450 which means we're raising taxes you're up for the increased tax raise for this yes for the possibility that it might hit somebody if it's your kid getting hit yeah well if I well if I'm bringing a kid in a stroller then I'm going to turn the stroller the other way you know doesn't work that way there's four games going on you might have one kid playing one field got to go look at the other because someone's playing I had a son that lost an i because of foul ball so it wasn't his fault right but I think but I think we're also having to deal with what is what we have to do you know whether it's Ada whether it's some baseball regulations over what we would want to do do I feel do I know that it would be safer if it was there yes but do we have 155,000 to make that happen no we not going to have 155,000 next year either so this is a year to good Vicky can we come back to this one can we finish the list and then come back to it if everybody's in agreement okay I'll list that one is questionable for the time being we can move on the uh Planning Development Department uh has two items listed for the downtown area the first would be downtown waste receptacles and the second would be round elliptical Planters uh for the downtown area nice but not needed yeah I agree there be one that I might suggest just know for future years find the money somewhere else he says I only have I know it's such a small am come on this next piece is the uh Police Department is requesting a secure garage this is this would be a joint venture with candy oh high County this would be for Cold Storage um just more or less concrete floor with walls from what it sounds like this would be uh to keep keep our equipment and as well as a sheriff's office equipment out of the elements uh just have a secured building for Cold Storage okay what's um the cold storage that's the attached unattached building now where the part of the evidence stuff is well right now we have that's four stalls total inside the building with that we share one of them is the SWAT bus one of them is the armored home V that sit in there so there's two stalls total that are inside our vehicle are what we call the F building is the other storage that has our simulator set up in it we store radar trailers the four-wheeler Trail or the side by side so that's virtually always full so there's two total we have um different trailers that we've Acquired and just ran out of space we have a outside storage unit that's just full of seats from the squad cars where you know the transition that's that is full um also in that one storage is part of our evidence that's caged off there's just um we've we've run out of room where to put a few things Carl R is first my question is did is candy High County have this in their budget next year that's what the proposal is is to look at it for next year it's kind of still in the talks so we could wait a year possibly we can I mean because they they they've already done their budget so it's not in their budget for 2025 it's to look at it in 2025 yeah to look it could be pushed to 26 great what does that 23's gone so is this aing building you want or can you add on to the existing building no this we looking to do like a pole shed style um with concrete just to keep Critters from going out but it would be no heat um bare minimum electric you know just enough lights to see to pull in and it is tentatively like to be put on outside of our fence where it would TI in on the kind of the county property so it still be like secured the only way in and out Carl so like this be a justing question at Public Works grounds there's those garages off the cold storage building um I don't I have no idea if that would be an option for anything that police could store in any of those um currently it's pretty full um we have our our planning trucks in there the band shells in there okay um I believe there's a fire trailer in there not not in the cold storage building itself but on the on the back side on the back yes to the east there y okay it that's that's full it's pretty full okay yep okay so consensus is to push that one off a year for now okay the next item would be at the Public Works garage this is a generator uh this is also another safety concern that was highlighted by our Public Works director and fire chief uh this this is a uh building wide generator um also if power goes out to get our um I think our equipment um everything out uh currently I think if they lose power they'd have to use a some sort of equipment to physically lift the door to get our plow trucks out or um tree trimming trucks or whatever they have to get out um so this is a I think it's just aged out and it needs replaced for lack of a better okay it hasn't broke yet yeah it is it is operational currently um if I I can read the room here um I I think this is a need it it so so currently if if we were to lose power um we would turn on this generator and we have to turn off numerous Breakers um in order for this generator to run um you know it just it's not sized appropriately now if I could tell you we would never lose power every life is great um but if we have a tornado come through we have a tornado come through um and we got to move trees out of the road yep you can't get it's um it it's it's a need it's one of those that you hope you never use but um that's the reality we're faced with so next okay I'll leave that one in moving on to item number 28 this is going to be a um fire department request to establish a truck fund for future Pur purchases uh Council approved this year a new uh aerial or a ladder truck for 1.7 million um and uh Chief Frank um he is looking at in two years from now uh getting another I think order in um and the thought was it's just looking forward so it's not you know ups and downs just kind of having a steady vehicle replacement fund so that way it it doesn't affect the budget this year we actually um did bond for it or take out borrow money for the purchase of the truck so this is a um Forward Thinking allocation I think it's a good it's a want but a good thought to implement I can see reducing it down Audrey um just a question that if we don't do this and we do another what's it called the equipment certificate or what is it called does this affect that or this was just a way to get some cash not to have to do as right yes and I believe the original ask um for the fire department was 300 and it was reduced down to 200 at the work session in August let's come back to this one too y the next item is for the parks and R this is a bobcat toolcat replacement um I believe that equipment is heavily used out by the parks and R staff and I is that's the one that is requiring a lot of repairs it required repair this past year it's at its service life right now um they can go for another year I didn't think he GNA give up that these next these next two are the squad car one and two or that's not squad car one and two but it's two squad cars for the police department uh originally the allocation has been typically four cars it does take the police department a while to find them um I don't know if the inventory Nationwide is any getting any better um I do want the count this isn't shown tonight but I think in 2027 or 2026 there's scheduled to be seven Vehicles replaced that year so I think um coming up it's going to be a quite a bit bigger number so I I I know they're used every day and um yeah okay okay I'll keep those two in there the line item 32 is a plow truck from Public Works um the price of these I think even two years ago they're around 232,000 I think last year was 286 average we ordered two of them we still don't even have those yet and I believe we order them over the winter um they're still not built for us so once again it'd be nice if if we had allocated money to get a purchase order out in an agreement um to order these and uh typically the public works department does order one per year to keep their Fleet current if you build a cage you can build a snowplow right I wish I I I will just add that um one of the trucks we um purchased this year that is currently being built is the um sibling truck to the want this one so they're both 2013's um we replaced one of them and then this would be the second one to kind of keep them somewhat close together um I understand what the situ ation is and what we're all dealing with so I I can respect that but if we do push it back um it's just going to be a ripple effect for further years but just just something to consider what's so your what's our life on our on our snow flows I I believe 10 years was the the standard um 111 12 you're ping right you're getting right there right now yep and even with last year when we didn't partly put any miles on it we made we made up for the year before should I keep that one on there keep that one on there okay the next one is a kibota zero turn mower um the it's cut off I don't know is the schedule to be replaced in 2023 so this particular line item was pushed back already once yeah I'm just like I'm in you have three three here at the end if you can prioritize those three um all of them the Kabota would be number three um I would say the snowgo snowblower would be number two and the plow truck would be number one running on borrowed time on the snow goal aren't we we are um we do have two units if that makes it any easier to swallow so I we we we do we do use both of them but we have an extra one that is um newer but again you is the snow go goes on in front of the cat like when you're the large blowers on front of the loaders yep yep great big Che the great great big things yep Vicky I'm just concerned these are all things that we need and we've already put them off yeah and what what is next year going to look like if we're doing all these Cuts this year next year is going to be really bad really hard does that mean that this year isn't hard I mean that's the problem this year is already hard I'm saying is be harder wondering you know especially when we're looking at these vehicles at the bottom of this list there's numerous ones here right and there's not any of them that are cheap um and I know about what happens when you count chickens before they're hatched but I'm I'm so focused on the Redwood property right and if we're if we take that Redwood sale whatever that turns out to be we fund the Tyler technology for it and then we throw the rest of that money into a vehicle fund where we can we can prioritize these and address these um moving forward um that strikes me as a possible way to to address the plow and the snow go and the the fire department needs keeping the squads in the C P for this year without tripling that 450 that we were looking to be at I think 30 to 33 need to stay snow go I I'm not sure I will add um and administration reminded me that we also use this blower out at the airport um where we have considerable drifting um and that that is something that I I completely overlooked but that's where the majority of the use is if we bought a new snow go what would you do with the older one older of the two that you got now we would we would look at what they would offer us for trade and if um in our experience it's usually not a lot so we would probably try and sell it on a Government auction or a website deals or something like that Audrey um I'm agreeing that they need to stay I think we need to be real and look at this I think it's unfortunate that we thought 450,000 or it was suggested that 450,000 was going to do this I think this is the process we need to go through to figure it out and look go back and look to see how does it change the budget um and um you know with that if they and then where is their money to to do it if we don't add it back to the taxes because we haven't even I mean the Redwood thing isn't done yet we talked about that money that's a you know a real estate investment should it go to something that's gone in one year or should we be using that to look at what our future building needs are that's your bottom line right now leaving in the protective netting and leaving in the fire department um future purchase is 1. 1596 only missed it by 1.1 million that's great um you know back to the that protective dening um we I have been waiting to see um about the outdoor covered ice rink and I rather doubt that it's going to come in at less than the money that was there um but we don't have additional funds if it comes in higher um we could also look at reallocating some of that money to go to do those uh the soft The netting Tom I believe we've already uh committed the those funds to that alth yeah I think we did when we put the amount there but we didn't we didn't say spend 1 mil 590,000 because we don't have the spe I think we set that aside that's they can go up to and understand but said if it went over they would fundraise for the rest of it so I think we have that year mark you know $155,000 to protect little kids senior citizens ball players adults moms dads out there is money well well worth spent I'm saying it needs to be done I just don't think that this is the year that we should be asked to do it this was not the year to keep pushing a big safety concern back this this needs to be done well we have other safety concerns in City Hall and a few other places that we're not doing Carl it seems to me too with that safety netting there is the potential for a lawsuit if it's not there if uh and and I don't know maybe it's not a requirement um that it' be there but I know it it certainly is encouraged you look at all the the professional Parks they're adding netting all up and down their their ball lines uh all the way down to the Outfield so I I agree it's it's uh even back when I was playing little league and and uh on the school Fields where you were lucky if you had a back stop some of our back stops were with snow fences um dads were constantly on the alert for fall balls to protect the moms and the kids and um so I agree it that this is something that is a need Audrey I'm not saying it's not a need but but is there someone who could step up the plate to raise some money if if we said we'll do 100 you find the 55 anybody I mean what's what's what does the what does the boosters usually put in for I mean they did the bad CAG or what what did they do the BM for us and they did a lot of over it so what do they normally raise and what is that something that their funds could go to currently the baseball association is helping us out with the Dugout projects at Swanson um I don't know their financials but um the B the Softball Association hasn't been established long enough to have enough funds established to put something uh a large amount of money towards it but I I know with the baseball booster some of their other priorities were some of the things that were cut were back stops lights then netting okay so we're at let's say 1.1 million with where we're at here above our 450,000 what happens what's our options well if we say that none of this additional stuff can get cut because it's all necessary what are we doing so as of now we have $450,000 of cash from the general fund um all the the items that we left on as yeses are highlighted or projects and then each individual would come back to council for a permission to proceed so that's when the council decide what individual projects would go forward you know but all these are highlighted as of now if there was any additional funding that we'd come across that might open up some more room for more projects but this would give us a good start um it is a good start to know what projects are identified why wouldn't you come back to us that these are all things that need to be done and how does it affect the budget because to say that we only have 450,000 and we think we're g to spend money that that we I don't know have somewhere or are getting or whatever I don't like that mhm uh we can the we can only in we've cut $190,000 from the $1,416 from the proposed budget in September and that is our high water mark so we cannot go any higher than that after our preliminary budget was adopted okay so we have 190,000 to add back in um if if the council wishes to just 190,000 yep yep the so when we set the preliminary budget at the September meeting the budgets can only go down they cannot go up so and then since that meeting the council and through talks and work sessions um the tax line item on the general fund has decreased by 190,000 so for the CIP we could go up to 450 plus 190 that's yeah that's what we have that is possible um once again that's prior to any of the other we have to look tomorrow take a at the Tyler Tech conversation as well uh see where that lies I think with the that reality in place going back and looking at these again okay you know there's we'd love to fund all of these I think we can all make an argument that they're all needs it's just a question of whether not there going to be needs for next year's CIP and I would think I mean in my mind the two projects City Hall and the fire you know the 200k for the fire truck um for future fire truck purchase become things that we just can't we just can't get to this next year okay is there other Council consensus on that with the two City Hall projects for that' be 110 and then the 200,000 from the fire department I would you know would like to see something kept in uh fire trucks because the next two years out we have wastewater treatment to be be paying for and that's going to be a big bow to swallow we haven't uh all those years they haven't budgeted any money to pay off right I'm just saying the reality is we have to cut about a million dollars off this list that we all think is essential I just I mean yeah so we're at 640,000 that we have that that would be that 450 plus the 190 pending Tyler technology we don't know we still have to accomplish for that 30 and that's only for the yearly subscription and no money towards any implementation of right unimplemented prodct so basically we got $500,000 let's not do this like this next year let's be real before we get the totals okay I don't know I'm sorry but I don't know that going through the list again is going to get us any I think we've been pretty careful and we've recognized things that have to be done um I don't know how going through the list again is going to help us okay but we have to cut 600,000 right no we're we're okay we just say we're not we don't have funds to do it I don't know which ones we don't have the funds for then talking about finding funds from some other place maybe we need to look in our own cash to see what what kind of cash we have in addition to um what's left over what's available okay but getting some refunds for on on our insurance maybe we have to look at reallocating that when we get those figures versus just putting them in the general fund Julie my calculations are right and we went back to taking 150 out for the Tyler Tech um we had the 450 now we got maybe like 40 50,000 we're at that 500,000 so we're 600,000 short right because we were at 1.46 1.5 1.5 96 right now yeah I think you're counting the 450 twice jul oh we have 1.1 oh got it yeah so the franchise that's already in the button yep and the other medical building on 19th Avenue has there been any discussion on that any offers on that one too and Redwood good work is that going to save usy yeah oh the only one that would for sale is the Rood Falls property right now right want the other one be if you'd like it to be I don't know if there's been any decisions that nobody been able to walk through it yet everything can't be a secret until the last so I'd like to get more information ahead of time much as we do because we well that's just not on that item there's a lot of items here last minute we we find out about it just a just a question I don't know what we're going to do on the budget but is there any reason for us to look at the budget and for tonight's conversation tonight's conversation before we make a decision on the CIP I didn't have a lot prepared uh nothing has materially changed at all since the last time we had spoke or had an admin briefing um the the dollars haven't changed the bottom line of the tax to Levy hasn't changed since last time we spoken about it it's just uh it was it was added on as if there are any other questions or any other clarifications or any other wants to move anything around so okay just just one more is there any other cuts that we could be looking at in the budget that would give us more money for CIP I don't think so no um I think staff and admin we've gone through line by line numerous times already jie okay I don't we have to make some come to some conclusions tonight because let's say we leave it as it is we go to the council meeting then what are we going to do Lon I I mean I think you're right and I think you know to to council member Fager's Point like just waiting to the last minute you know to make a decision doesn't doesn't help this get any better I know I mean I think the other thing I'm thinking about is the Ty technology if it's a 100 if we have budgeted the annual costs and we're talking about implementing new things when we put those new implementations up against the list that we have from CIP I'm not sure that is a priority anymore or well or does it make more sense to switch over to the uh to the Saha funds um just a question maybe from to the city administrator you you had just allocated the 450,000 and we weren't going to I mean you had picked things in that and we weren't going to go back and do the list like we did tonight so what would we have done with the rest or how how would it work the recommendation that is that what you're talking about at the last council meeting yes that was just a recommendation from staff we looked at this list and thought that maybe the council just would like to some see what we thought was maybe the priorities of the $450,000 it had nothing to do with that that was going to be the decision that decision is still on the council was our recommendations that we saw that were probably the highest priorities of this list that the council did see in September and during our workshops also and we had asked Council for recommendations of what they wanted to see cut out of this and we went through that process a little bit in one of the workshops but I never did see any recommendations from Council by that one deadline in September September 25th or whatever it was before our first Workshop but the rest of it could just you you know what you have have and maybe as funds come along then you can dedicate to you can go back to your CIP list and you can decide what you want to spend it on you don't have to make the decision tonight on the whole entire thing and how would we what I'm saying is you do you can make the decision on this is the CIP list we're going to work off of on 2025 as we get fun funds then we will bring those to the council for resolution to pass and working off at the CIP list is that project is that equipment on the CIP list for 2025 and do we have the money now to pay for it so so we have to decide what 500,000 we want to spend we want to commit money to tonight and then when the money comes in from Redwood we can look back at projects yes or from wherever okay if there's other funds from someplace else so will we be informed if there is funds that come from someplace else like refunds and those types of things so that we can say okay we got 150,000 here let's now do this or how will that work I guess that staff would bring that to us you can't assume Julie you look gobs smack what I I'm I'm just like it's it's it's like we're we're hoping or we're we're we're leaving this that we're praying that some funds are going to become available and I look at it's like no we have some things we have to have it's like we're not going to pass up um almost $2 million in airport grant money because we didn't come up with 40,000 I mean that has to happen and we have to have squad cars and um I so as I'm listening things that I I feel like we've prioritized a little bit higher than all the things that we want and need if we do the three airport projects that we talked about if we do the Civic Center wall repair and door replacement if we do the security cameras for civic center and Robins Island and we do the two squats that's 484000 and the rest we wait for further funds he he said we have more funds so can we or not if Council wishes but with the caveat of the Tyler Technologies um we' have to look at that a little deeper tomorrow morning oh what sorry I'm jumping in what what are the options with the housing if we you said something earlier Justin about going all Saha funds that okay still opposed to that that was I I would still do that split I still look at doing the split theud I don't it's not even enough funds to deal with I mean we still have we still have an issue okay so then I go excuse me go ahead Julie okay and I know I know we we were at the arpa and we kind of thought we were finished there but then I just it's like okay so we put 87 ,000 towards playground equipment to me $80,000 for the door is probably more important than updating that playground equipment that's something to play with that would be that would fall into the squad cars will but the the door at Civic Center that's what jul was talking but if we spend money on squad cars instead of Park equipment then it frees up more CIP funds for the door it will fit yes okay so it fits there it does more oh I definitely do safy definitely our director agreed sadly more important the door or the safety nets door is more important save the building the and again and then again we go down to what's more important the door that's deteriorating or having the camera lights the cameras door the the cameras are a safety issue it's a protection issue yes of of our of our of our assets but no but for people I think people can need to feel safe too to have those safety cameras yeah I I think you're more likely to have something happen at Robins island or somewhere than you're get hit by the Fall Ball and it I mean I know the Fall Ball can happen but I think it's the cameras at Swanson or at the robins island outway in the N just again throughout my proposal that both of those things are there you don't have to choose between the door or the camera because because again my list of of things that I'm hearing from us that are the top priorities that we can that we can pay for is the three airport projects the door in the wall at the Civic Center the cameras and the two Squad cards you can still fit Tyler technology in no never mind we're at 484 with all of those but again what what things are we implementing with Tyler technology we have to finish the planning development technology that's going to that like I said that doesn't get it fully implemented until July so we have implementation cost yet for that for sure um asset management and the AER we those three things have started and there's still implementation yet okay so we might need to find other sources for that those aren't things that we could choose not to no they're already if you want yeah got it I mean Nelson asked told us about you know having this where the public can go to the website report a problem that kind of thing that is all under the planning and development software system and that can't get implemented unless we finish it and I think if we're at 484 with your list that still allows for enough for the Tyler right because we had up to 500 while still leaving enough for the Tyler I believe they want 150 for Tyler right that's just for the subscription that's budgeted Bas not explicit you said tens of thousands for the the subscription was budgeted under ARA the implementation would have came out of the general fund so we'd still have money to put toward it but not to cover it entirely correct so a realistic for Tyler is probably 175 because you said it' be tens of thousands for implementation fees probably into the 200s total that much more okay but that's been budgeted the two total everything the the annual fee plus the implementation yeah but the annual fee is what you want out of the arpa fund right so that's what that's what we would need to make up in general fund and that's and again that was the proposal for using Saha funds is to fre up and I'm not trying to I mean that's that's why it was presented in the way I presented it was to be a minimal impact to the general looking at me I don't know I don't want to run your meeting do we need to go down the line and see what people's thoughts are where you where you at on what we're going to do you lead off Carl I can I uh I don't even know if I know where we're at um I I had thought that we had 500,000 that we could use on the CIP and still have enough for the 150 for the for the Tyler license but I'm I'm getting tired and I don't know if I thinking clearly if I'm remembering things right um I don't know I guess I don't even remember now where I'm coming up with that with that number um I i s that's no that's fine I'm the other end I think where I'm at I've been pretty vocal about my the numbers that I'm coming up with what I believe to be the priorities the rest of the things while important can wait for further funds that we have really solid reasoning to believe are coming in the very near future I I I think we will be able to address a lot of this um without exceeding that the ceiling that we can't um go past but I think the bigger fear that I have tonight is that we would use funding that's reserved for housing which I again will say that is is the current crisis our community faces you know Pastor Tony came today and I think he's 100% right that there are gaps in in our community for this safety net that we should be providing for people who are experiencing homelessness and for us to take money you know that that can lead to someone having a house so that we can have a net a little bit faster when a couple months down the road we're going to have funding for that net and other things I just I I can't support that so I'm again wanting to to hold with the original arpa conversation that we had prioritize those things that we can to get to that 480 number and wait for the sale of the property in Redwood to address the remainder of the is what were the ones that you had prioritized the airport three airport projects yeah two Civic Center the door replacement wall repair the security cameras for Robins Island and the Civic Center and the two squad cars 60 45 49 80 80 50 60 60 my Math's not good so I hope that but it's POS but it's possible we could take one of the part of the 80 off of the the playground equipment anyway yeah I'm fine with that well on the ARA funds we have playground equipment we could move over to cover part of the door and the wall correct okay so then that would free up a little bit of money there and then the housing yeah we definitely we need that uh but we also have to be kind of wash all for everybody in wart just not the homeless we need to be washing out for the taxpayers also so I'd like to reconsider moving taking $75,000 from arpa giving that to H taking $775,000 from the saw program putting that towards HRA we still got $150,000 there we're just showing up uh $75,000 but who knows what uh H might do with the the slant trust maybe they might be willing to pitch in more than $150,000 in the wart you know we don't know that so and and that will free up $75,000 that we could put towards this Tyler Technologies you know and then we're watching out just not for homeless now we're watching out for every taxpayer moment too also by helping juggles some money around you know with your thing you're taking off one of my biggest concerns on the safety you know and it's always the ball field to always get pushed off pushed off pushed off pushed off ever since I've been on the console the back stops the lighting no we'll do it next year no we'll do it next year four years down line no we're not doing any again it's not saying no it's saying we're waiting for that funding to come in from the sale of the property we could how do we know we want to put that money right there and there there could be a different issue that comes up when this happens you know we could have a blow on a big road where we're going to have to fix it up and again I'm I think my my own personal ethics and and Faith lead me to prioritize housing over baseball well we also need to uh prioritize our taxpayers too over you know everybody else we just can't take one little demographic which I think you will have some taxpayers that will also say we put Millions into Robins Island and baseball fields and into hockey for kids activities which we made as a priority and that's not everybody in the community either okay just same the other side um I appreciated what con a stated and and maybe maybe we need to do a second prioritization if we know what we're going to get for Redwood after that meeting maybe we go back and do that to prioritize what if that's what we're going to use those funds for to to what are the next things that we can do and then also ask staff to take a look at I know we're getting a refund on um workers the workers comp insurance and the from the uh Insurance trust they should have those figures by that time too what time are we talking about I don't know for sure are we gonna know do we have to do it before we do the budget or do we do it after we do the budget because we're if we're saying all we can do is 284,000 that solves the budget for right now doesn't solve our CIP we come back and say okay now what can we do and what can't we do I don't know what we I don't know if that's okay to do it that way I need to hear from the city administrator that's I was just looking at it could see you sorry H as far as you I I think I had said this that you could come back and look at the CIP and determine what projects to spend any additional funding that does get received at a later date CIP does not have to be part of the budget no we already have the general fund budget that is already determined that's where your tax rate is the rest of the funds have nothing to do with the tax rate because whatever comes out of the general fund into another fund is already in that tax rate under the general fund CIP is a different fund doesn't come from the taxes the only thing that's coming from the taxes is $100,000 to the CIP for a total of $450,000 because we have $350,000 to spend 450 450 total we have 350,000 in the CIP fund plus another 100,000 that were transferring oh no excuse me we budget $450,000 in the general fund to transfer to cipy and all I'm saying is we've backed oursel in a corner this year this is I next year we should be looking at what we need for the CIP before we set our general Levy um if there are things that have to be done then they needed to be incorporated into the taxes not just pull out 450,000 and now we're back filling into what can we do and what can't we do if if we're we're in a corner right now and I'm just suggesting that that maybe this is one way we can't make any other decisions because we have no options and so for us to come back and um look at what can we do so we know can what can we get oursel out of and what can't we council member Nelson you'll recall this is the situation that the city has been in the last two years the council and staff have been have been deficit spending uh since 2016 2017 we have been digging out of this hole the last two years last year to fill this void we used the community investment fund 7 $50,000 plus $350,000 of General Levy to fund the CIP that was not presented option this Cil this year because we don't want to get in this this repeat process of of borrowing money from other funds without appropriately raising Levy uh if the if staff were to present this uh original $2.5 million request to the city council we would have been looking at a 30 plus per tax levy increase and that's not reasonable for staff to present to the city council so that's why we presented what we did um as early as the end of July or August of this year uh so I appreciate the the conversation and I agree with what you're saying council member Nelson but we're trying to be realistic as well as staff presenting the information to the city council in an appropriate manner when it comes to how it affects the general Levy and and I appreciate that and I know we we have been backing oursel into a corner and now we're really there right now I feel like so we've spent all the money and we are now um the only option we have is to raise taxes really okay so in the future is the fix that let's say in August or in September when we were first starting to do this should there have been more push on us to make the hard decisions that we're doing right now and did we just not take it seriously or what happened I mean you can say you got this in August and we had some general discussion but I didn't feel like there was any um let's get down and dirty and start figuring out what's the bottom line and maybe that's just me but how could that have been done differently what should we have done differently then yeah I I don't want to necessarily reflect on what has or hasn't been done but I mean there were uh information that was presented in work sessions of deadlines that we needed information by the city council by um some information was presented or provided to us by council members some was not uh so it gave us very limited information to work off of and as we can I believe believe we did have one additional work session after that deadline um CIP was brought up and it was maybe a 10-minute conversation at that council meeting before so okay it does need to be T it is a serious conversation it's even a it's a tougher conversation even knowing that we have limited funds uh for the needs that we have but as we go year by year this we anticipate this fund to increase to get to a point event eventually we don't have to have this as difficult of a conversation I don't know how it gets it easier because like we're discussing in what three years we're gonna have seven Vehicles it's I mean it's just going to keep getting worse no different than the road construction projects that's why I got kicked down the road because the council wanted to appease um citizens in not having tax increases I get it I get it but um and whe and maybe if that's some of what we're doing again but you also we had discussions about that you sat down with all the department heads and so when when I'm looking at some of these things that we were able to say okay 11's out 13's out 14's out to me those would have been discussions that would have happened before it got to the bottom line for us to say okay that's not an absolute need we don't have it we're 2 million old that conversation did happen I believe this list was closer to 5 million when we first started with it Tom okay just follow up on on this one and I'll go to my next one I did bring this up at class Council to have department heads go and to make for the cuts and we were told no this is what they did that that they they did we asked as a council last time for them to go and make these hard Cuts where we weren't sitting around here saying this is what I want this is what I want out this is what I want in I asked for for that to be done and it was and it wasn't now that's what we're doing here tonight but to get back to my original one that I want to Circle back a little bit to is the that affordable housing trust that was started on uh on a tax abatement on a 26 year project when does that money start coming into the city that we can use for affordable housing I think it's the Trident project that that's not that's that's Mr um Butterfield is referring to the Tiff district for pooling um at Trident and that would start until um once they complete the project so probably like 2027 that then that money will start coming in towards to help out with the housing well so no it has C out that the funds will stay in the Tiff funding and as it grows then projects could be taken out of it it's not going to have well I know it's not going to be a lot Mone $400,000 it's GNA take a while to build up but I just want to know when when the city could first actually start tapping into it it need to be oh probably 2030 2035 at the earli Audrey just a couple things that to follow up with what council member osma said I do feel like we were um we should have dealt with the CIP sooner maybe we would would have not been as critical on cutting or where the levy started we were asked to do I just I just think there has to be a better process and we are we're going to be in more trouble next year and so I think we have to we we have to deal with what our needs are um and and I think we also have to look at is there something else that we should be looking at what's the next local option sales Tex we can do or what's something else that we can do to take help our community but I I do think we went through this list there were things that that I thought were going to be removed that weren't we're here we can't undo how we got here I just don't want us to do it the same way next year I I think it would be unfair to ask the department heads to make all the cuts I mean that's that is our job to make those hard choices I do think we need to ask them to to be very careful about what they're asking for and and truly try to pair it down to okay this this is something that would be really helpful but um you know it's to to put it all on the department heads to say this is our absolute needs that's still not going to be the answer it's still up to us to make those hard cuts at the end and so uh that doesn't help us at all tonight but I think in the future yes we definitely need to have this meeting earlier in the in the process and yes go ahead and I would say with with those department heads and even though I I I get that that's probably you know your discussions that you had Leslie with um when you've have your department head meetings but I also agree with with Carl after I had said that it's like okay I get it because then it's just then it's it's a fight between the department the Departments and they're going to say well I want my Kabota and why should I say I'm not going to have the Kabota if um if you get your playground equipment so yeah that is our hard decision to have to make but we need good informed information of how dire and how dilapitated something is before we have to replace it well I I I have to push back on that a bit okay you have your budget books in front of you that we did develop and that was something new that you did not have before you have pictures of everything in there you have a narrative in there about about what the department heads were asking for I don't know what else we can give you then so if you have other suggestions I would gladly work on those okay I to say like I think my frustration in the process isn't with the staff I think it's at the Council table I feel like and we're doing the same thing tonight I think that we've continued to do we still haven't made a decision right like we keep just pontificating on like on our different priorities some of which seem to be totally like in a fantasy world that doesn't have a cap to the spending limit that we have and and so I would I think I asked at a meeting back in August like can we go through and get some sort of consensus on each of these so it's not just you know I think Tom great point that we just had a little bit ago where I'm cutting Nets you're saying no that's a priority for me okay it's one to one on Nets the rest of you need to weigh in you know this it's a majority rural Council and we don't seem to stick with any conversation long enough to get a consensus on any of these and the staff's left just trying to figure out what to make sense of it um and I feel like you've done a fairly decent job doing that but I I think we need to stick with the conversation enough to be able to to actually carry a a proposal through to the finish line and again we haven't even got to that point tonight um I'm sorry but I thought we had come to a conclusion we have 484000 that's what we have we don't have any choice so we um right now we can't do anything with anything else because we have 484 th000 so that is our that is our first decision and to give it back to staff to put it together to to bring it back to us because um do I like it no but there's there is a decision that's what it is can we do the 484 or do we have to be at 450 there would be room to go to 484 um because we did cut 190,000 so there's room but U once again it's going to increase the taxes y there will be we can't decrease we won't stand what the tax rate was in our last discussion correct say that again so in our last work session you kept you kept cutting the general fund and cutting the general fund and so if you want to increase the 450,000 to 484 we're going to have to increase the tax rate compared to what you saw because the 484000 has to be paid out of cash so we have to increase the tax rate so the last tax rate you saw at the work session is going to be increased because the 84 the $34,000 has to be coming from somewhere and I was is all of our tax is all our general is all the general fund is increased by is right now is $137,000 and some whatever that $37,000 is only in the general fund for an increase in rate or increase in costs the $100,000 makes up the $450,000 we have in there we have like Kyle said last year we had $350,000 in the general fund for cash to transfer this year we increased it to $450,000 so that's where the $100,000 is out of where we left the tax rate at at $1 137 990 or whatever it was is what the general fund is being increased for a tax rate of 7 sum we're going to have to go back and refigure that to include the other $34,000 in the tax rate I'm gonna call on Tom make it short because I'm gonna take a five minute break I want to go back to the arpa funds but so we could take that $887,000 that we have for the parks throw that towards the police cars and that's that will go into the CI basically in the CIP we could actually do that then correct that would actually give us yes we would just want have we would just went through those two parks be one I think that would be wise to withhold off on on the parks I think police cars are a little bit more more important and then if we have any more room then we could you know do the split later on you know after break a little bit you know if we want to do the h a little bit different but I think pulling the parks off of the arpa and using that money towards the police cars would be a wiser investment right take a five minute break e e e e e e e e e e e how do we how do we land this tonight sorry mayor I missed that I said how do we land this discussion that we've been having um because we're we're going to be talking review of budget but you just explained to me yes thank you Mr Mayor um so I think to kind of recap tonight we talked about arpa with the council preferences on how arpa should be spent we've identified um we've identified some initial CIP and long-term CIP plans for 2025 um I think what we're going to do is we'd like to take tomorrow to look at the budget presentation for Monday night which is the trth and Taxation hearing um what I would uh prepare the council is that we'll be probably close if not at the preliminary Levy of 10.8% uh on Monday night versus the 7 point 6% I can't recall exactly what we were at um roughly $190,000 that we'll need to add back into the budget for additional CIP and for Tyler Technologies so we'll work on that tomorrow and get that updated packet probably throwing a wrench and everything now but um to avoid the extra 34,000 to get it back to 450 I I like to Tom's idea going 7575 um and then uh keeping the so that we're not raising the the tax rate at all I think that that solves that issue and that's what parks being REM and the squad cars y or the doors or whatever yeah Audrey ask no I say no to that I'd rather look at what the staff is doing sorry thank you I said I'd rather look at what the staff is recommending you I'm just confused so 7575 splitting the splitting the original 150 for HRA right then you also want to reduce the park funding so we take 75 from ARA 75 from Saha so we get the 150 to H and then um using that extra 75 to put towards the police cars or so you're not cutting the equipment the Park equipment yeah so we' eliminate the Park equipment you wouldn't have to do there's now you wouldn't oh I would prefer to see us eliminate the Park equipment and keep the original 150 and not not Rob 75 grand from housing it's just but we're still giving the 150 to H you're giving you're taking 75,000 that ours already allocated and can only be spent on housing to to do that so you're going from that 322,000 that currently is for housing you're taking 75 from housing giving it to something else and that's what I'm opposed to if you want to take it from if we want to reduce the park playground equipment by 60,000 and spend you know 60 Grand of that on the squad car that I'm okay with then I'm with a we need to see what they come back with for us and but I I think we do need to keep that on the table as a as an option Kyle and Leslie do you think you got a good feeling for um Mr Mayor yes we can take the input from tonight we'll review that tomorrow with our best recommendation for the Council on Monday to be as budget neutral as we increasing limit any increases that we can next week we got a nail it down t yes it'll be in the packet tomorrow night we technically have till the second meeting in December right if we need if the council desires yes Chief taxation can be Contin well then we might as well just plan on that whole meeting being on finalizing the budget nothing else on it because it's going to be a long night are we ready to adjourn second e