##VIDEO ID:YrksD9bUxkA## all right we'll call the meeting to order roll call Mayor Reese here council member OS here Nelson here Davis here scheldes here Butterfield here and O'Brien here council members ferly and osus are excused stand for the pledge seven present sorry two absent I pledge Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for before we go to number four uh I had a citizen come to me early this morning wondering if uh if there's going to be another letter to those properties that were uh in question on the assessments those properties that had changes to their assessments um will or did receive a letter and the remaining properties will not receive a letter just the one ones that had changes so um I hope Jennifer puts something about it in there because people are wondering if there's going to be letters well they should know that because if they have questions they can call the city office and talk to Kelsey talk to Kelsey yeah all right okay we'll we'll go on to four uh proposed additions are deletions to the agenda motion to approve the agenda second we got a motion and a second discussion roll call council member Nelson I Davis I sches I Butterfield I O'Brien I and O I six eyes zero NOS that passes um under regular business we have the authorization to solicit proposals from executive recruiting for firms Leslie yes good evening Council um police chief felt has provided his letter of resignation for his retirement and effective October 18th so we have a short window here but um we would propose that we hire an executive Search team for this position because it is a critical undertaking here and requires a thorough and strategic approach um given the importance of this role to ensure the safety and security of our community staff are requesting that the city council authoriz this Eng and engage an outside firm for helping this hiring process um justifications of course of hiring this uh firm would be to ex the expertise in recruitment a broader reach we' also like to have um and the objectivity and confidentiality that goes along with this and then the time efficiency that they would provide us okay any questions any questions from the council otherwise I'm looking for a motion to authorize I I have a question okay Mike um why don't we just try to see if we have the people right here I mean why do we have to go on a search um I've been part of a search before and it didn't work out so well and uh I'd like to hear from the chief and what he thinks if that's possible that's not my council meeting it's the mayor's what do you want from the chief I think that's putting him in kind of a different well you're you're asking to go outside I I think he has the people I think he has quality people that we can hire right here and I just want to see what he has to say does he agree with this search go ahead Jim well thank you Mr Mayor members of the council first of all you know Miss Valiant and I in talking about my retirement have not spoken in depth about the uh an executive Search I know that she um expressed an interest in doing that and had mentioned it um you know I guess I would I would urge the council to consider when you're thinking about this is that um if you look at the police department that we have hopefully we have served the way you've asked us to serve over the past several years here and recognizing that as a chief I may climb to the top of the tree and point at times but there's an awful lot of people below that do the work every day and carry out those missions as part of the police department we've been working very hard over the past several years to build leadership within our department um in looking at the job description for for the police chief that was um just recently okayed by the the police commission it was left unchanged but was reviewed by the police commission last week um we have five people that fit the qualifications underneath that that they could qualify for now whether they would all apply or be interested in it I don't know I I believe that there are some that are and I I know there are some that do not have that interest um but keeping that in mind um I've worked for a department that's uh hired an outside Chief and it was a case where it was it was difficult it was kind of disruptive to the department and that type of thing I've also worked where it's been a transition from a person within generally that has caused less anxiety and less discourse in the department um you're kind of hiring a known quantity but again you know this is a a decision for you to make I feel that we have some qualified people if they're not within our department I don't think you have to cast the net very far to find some in the region within even within the county um you know and there's always uh um the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association has the ability to send out um job notices within the entire State too if that would be something that the the council would like also but um guess that's a thank you for a few things on that but that's kind of my my feeling on it all right thank you Chief oh my goodness I've got Justin am I good you okay Justin go ahead thank you um and thank you Chief and happy early retirement I mean not that you're retiring early but I'm saying to you early happy retirement um and thank you for for all the service that that you've done and and your department as well um I appreciate knowing that there are five officers that could be solid internal candidates uh would look forward to seeing hopefully all of them apply if that's something that they would desire at the same time I'd certainly believe that we owe it to the citizens of Wilmer um for a job that's important to cast The Net as wide as possible if there's a better candidate out there uh it would be great to find it if one of those internal candidates is is the best candidate I have no doubt that rise to the top um and so I would uh offer a motion to authorize City staff to solicit proposals from recruiting firms for the police chief position I'll second that okay we got a motion and a second discussion um we go to Audrey okay um I have a great deal of respect for you you've been here a long time um it's very nice to hear that you've got multiple uh offic ERS that are interested in um in this position I do however agree with what um council member OS said that we owe it to our community um to do to hire the best person that we can and I think that as long as you've been here um perhaps it's a would be a great opportunity to see who would be interested in this position um both internally and externally and um I very much support um us looking for for a recruiting firm and um taking the opportunity to to build rebuild or build the best department that we can um for our community Vicki um well well I respect your opinions I am in disagreement because I feel like um we have a good police staff here and they know our community they know our area they know each other they know how things work here and I think the transition will be much smoother if we hire from within um and also I think what is it telling our officers here if we hire from outside I just think it sets a bad um precedent said it says we don't respect you that's how I feel so all right Tom Jim when you applied for the chief police how did the city do it back then did they use an outside firm or was it done internally you know when they were looking yes he we didn't have itm no he came up through the ranks yeah if if it's okay to answer what they they did when I um became chief of police they did go to an outside firm I know they cast The Net pretty wide they had somebody from I remember specifically from NYPD apply they had somebody from near Rapid City City South Dakota a number from the the uh the Twin Cities and they ended up with the local kid anyway um you know I don't know what they spent but it it took extra time to do that you know there was some cost that went with it I don't have any idea what that was I was you know simply an applicant at that time what year was that uh 2014 so and then if I recall right Jim you started off as a bicycle officer Patrol person entry level part-time while you're going to school right yep as and then now now he's gone from being a bicycle cop to Che police local boy been here for years and years and years we hire local they're going to be here years and years and years and we don't have to worry about 2 three years about the next one bail and ship they already have their Roots established here in Walmer and if uh Jim thinks that we have a few people here locally and within the surrounding areas that could fill this I think that would be our best bet Carl thank you Mr Mayor I guess I would agree with Vicki and Tom I feel like we don't need to cast The Net wide the grass is rarely Greener um sure maybe we could find some very qualified candidates but I I feel like the people here deserve a shot first and if if it turns out that the police commission isn't happy with anybody that applies locally okay then we can expand it Statewide and if we still don't then we can look Nationwide but we're also here tonight to try to save money cut down costs why spend the money on this if we don't have to anything else mayor I Mike mayor you're in law enforcement and a community it takes you not days not not weeks not days not months years it takes you years to get accumulated with your community in my position I worked with all law enforcement and and I can tell you that when somebody comes in that's not familiar with your area you struggle and you struggle a long time and it comes back to haunt you I'll guarantee you but like I said when I worked with I've been all over when I worked in law enforcement when they brought somebody in that was from the area we just absolutely scrambled we had really a lot of issues and that's what I think Wilmer is special it's not for anybody just to come in from New York City or Brooklyn or Washington or wherever it takes somebody that knows this place and knows the different agencies and knows the people that's what I I say this is definitely at home keep it home all right Audrey um I'm really concerned um but I want to understand the hiring process the city council has the authority to hire Department directors that's what you are is one of those so the city council still will make the decision on the hiring process will you work with human resources will you work with the city administrator what role does the police commission and who else will play a role in that hiring process I I just have a concern that we are not that we're too inward focused right now that we need to be brave enough to look for the next best person to be here if that's internal then that person will rise through the process but to just be closed and say we're only going to look internally I have a real concern about that um you've been here for a long time this community has changed immensely in the time that you were here I don't know anything about anybody other than you with that what does your department run like internally um it I I don't understand why we wouldn't be open to wanting to look and see who the best person would be to replace you and I worry about that I worry if there there's something that that we are afraid of that you know Wilmer is a great place there's a lot of great places but to to keep such a closed environment is very concerning so I would like an explanation of if we don't hire a search firm how this hiring process will go will the city administrator Administration be involved will Human Resources be involved how will how will the posting go if we're only you know I'm really concerned that we are not um being brave enough to to um to open up the open up and see what's available to have the best person that we can Vicki couple of things um first of all if you look at the county the sheriff is always local and people vote for the sheriff they don't we don't do that I know that but I'm saying there's a reason for that no I think it's because it's good to have local people in that position and also if we want help to hire a new chief of police maybe we can use vinna to help us use who vinna resources their HR firm that's what we're talking about but I want to hire a local company to help us find local people cuz you're worried how the process would go what we're suggesting is an author authorization to solicit proposals they could be a proposal for people outside though no it doesn't say that it says recruiting firms it doesn't say someone outside it doesn't but I really would like an answer if we don't hire someone what is the hiring process and how will how will people be involved in it I'll let Justin go first then I can answer Justin okay I was interested for my for the answer too but that's um I I'll try and council member Nelson and expressing concern over this I mean U honestly it strikes me a lot as nepotism um that we wouldn't owe it to this special community of ours to go out uh and find the best candidate and again if that best candidate is an internal candidate that's going to rise up that person's going to be the next chief and that'll be something we can all celebrate um council member Davis is right when it comes to Sheriff's there's an election since we since the citizens of our community don't get to vote uh for Sheriff I would think that you know that should be something that we all take very seriously as their elected representatives and for us to to narrow the amount of candidates by not even considering someone that's not a current member of the police department uh is striking to me um I'm also concerned that one of the things I think we need an outside HR firm to help us with and if it's a local firm great I'd be more than happy to see a local firm but I think we need a firm because of the eight of us that sit on this Council we have two members of retired law enforcement that know our law enforcement you know really well we have another member who's married to uh someone from the Department there's conflicts of interests on the eight of us we bring you know the three of us give you bring us great insights but you also have relationships with the people that we're talking about here um I think we need someone from the outside to come in and to lead this so that this can be a wellone unbiased search and the citizens of this community end up with the best possible chief that they can get lese the way I see this process and I ask director sit sitsa and director BOS also to jump in and correct me if I'm my steps are wrong but I would say that our if this is going to be conducted internally it'll still be an outward post our HR Director will post it outwardly it'll not be just an inward uh post like that because I don't think that's fair to um anybody else that probably is in our County that has the right qualifications so we would want to put it post it outside of our uh office then uh from there um we would would probably do some investigative work as far as uh processing the uh interview the applicants that do come in it would probably be a probably I would say a 3-week process in order to we would want to keep it open for 3 weeks to try to get as many candidates as possible from there then we will review those internally and we would score them as far as um their qualifications they would be a blank score no nobody would know who they are they would be given a number so nobody would be able to qu know who they are based on their qualifications um they would have to get scored based on certain qualifications that would be put down on a score sheet from there then uh we would have to also conduct background checks through a company so we would have to hire an outside firm to do those background checks because we could not ask our Police Department to do those background checks that just would not be correct in doing that and then from there then uh I would say then we would pull probably the top four candidates and uh ask for interviews from that after that as far as the interview process I would say that um it would be probably two council members maybe a police commissioner myself Mr Box and uh Miss sitsa if that's how we would go internally any I don't thank you one more thing Mike like to comment and coun Us's comment about law enforcement law enforcement families this has got nothing to do that I'm in law enforcement was in law enforcement it's got everything to do that I've seen super ADV visors brought in that were the wrong people and that did not belong there and did not come from Minnesota I've seen this happen I've seen it in I've seen it here I've seen it happen it's got nothing to do reason I'm fighting like this it's got nothing to do with my background it's got everything to do with what I've been through over the years and I just want this city to be healthy period can I ask a followup comments or question to council member O'Brien yes go ahead I I appreciate that and I appreciate your passion for it I appreciate that you want the right person I think everyone at this table does why would you narrow the search for who that right person is by only wanting it open to internal candidates I have learned that internally if you've got the people don't don't bypass them give them a chance mhm if you've got the right people give them a chance because if if you pass them up you probably won't get them again isn't this how we find out if we have the right people you can do it too by letting the chief he knows who his people are he should be on that far as I'm concerned he should be on that committee because he is a person that's been around a long time and he knows exactly what these people are made of they can lead the leaders in this community who they are in the law enforcement Community I'm just saying like you said M SCH we're looking at money what's this going to cost us to do this we don't know till we get the proposals back I'm in a committee right now with Municipal Utilities let me tell you it's not cheap it's an investment it's an investment you have it's an investment so why did your committee on municiple utilities choose to go this direction that wasn't my decision I am a representative of the Council on that and they brought me in as a representative of the council but it was already a done deal when we got there but I was asked to sit on the committee MH and we're still doing because we're going around and around and around because because we got the wrong person well and now we got to go again because now we got to go back through all of this all over again I don't know can't get too much into this but I will tell you that we've got a lot of work to do Audrey um I just find it interesting that you're sort of basically saying that all internal candidates succeed um and and I don't understand why I we don't want to look for the best person and help that person succeed whether that's internal or external because I don't believe all internal candidates succeed and you don't we don't want to set we want to set oursel up to have the best department that we can and also I don't believe it would be appropriate for chief felt to be the decision maker for the next police chief he's retiring he's done he's leaving this is a decision for the people that are going to be here after he is gone um he's been very successful with what he's done but it's not his decision with what should happen next Tom one thing about this is I think our human resource department can reach out further than wmer there's multiple Avenues they can go you know from indeed to what Jim said the the state police commission has opportunity to put this out there's colleges that have resource officers you know for hiring Department that City can reach out to and put notice out they'll go and put it out to all the police officers that wants to change there's other avenues we're just not going internal local we're just going to keep the hiring process as first time as local it's not hard we put out on indeed somebody searching for to move up in police departments is going to pop up on their search engine that we're we're looking I think the city wmer can do this job do it correctly get it out there where yeah we may not be reaching people out in New York but we may be reaching people down in Rochester Minnesota soual South Dakota you know then then I I I I think the city of Walmart can can do this and it's just not going to be an internal iring process the city of Wilmer can go other avenues and do this I had reservations about this also but um I had a conversation this morning with Justin and um lesie Kyle oh yeah I'm sorry Kyle um but I'm uh I listen to your arguments and I'm I'm really not sure which way we should go and I think that goes back to some of what Mike said the last time we went well it isn't the last time we went because I forgot that the council I wasn't on it at the time you were hired three times as uh the chief I was in 14 I was not there um but previous to that we had a chief come in from outside and I think that's what you referred to too Chief it wasn't a good situation all the way around and that that's got me sorry I'm going to say gunshi um but uh I'm glad I'm I'm don't give me a tie vote tonight um I'm not sure I I wish I could give you some hard fast stuff that would help help you make a decision but I can't Justin one more question I just wanted to say like I love the story about how Chief felt was hired I love the story about starting off you know on a bike and and making your way up to Chief and I love that when you became Chief you knew that you were the best candidate you knew that we looked as far as New York City and you were still the best I hope whoever takes over after you can know the same thing and not know that they just happen to be the best within one ZIP code but they were Absol absolutely the best from the entire search and whether that's going to be from a search firm or whether it's going to be our city staff doing it um you I'm realizing that most of this debate actually is irrelevant to the motion we seem to be questioning whether it should be an internal or an external search and the Motions for a search firm so I'll refocus us a little bit on that but I hope whoever gets to take over after you uh I hope they feel like uh like you did when you got that job a few years back Audrey I will call on you here in a second did you have something you wanted to say no Oh I thought you said I I'm just going to ask you mentioned the Chiefs Association could probably help us out with this as well yes the uh the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association uh when they found out that I was retiring they reached out and that was one thing that they offered that they can send out the information Statewide to executive level um staff not just Chiefs but commanders lieutenants captains that type of thing to um to assist with the search if the city wished so all right Audrey I still support soliciting proposals um to for an executive recruiting firms I think we're a large enough community that our community deserves it however if we do not vote to do an outside executive recruiting the process that's been described is very much an old open proc process inclusive of using human resources and our Administration um and opening it up to uh search Beyond just our internal candidates and um if an internal candidate Rises to the top wonderful but if we find someone that is best for our community that's our job is to find the best person to replace you replace Chief felt and um that's my concern and um whether we do it through an outside firm or we utilize our staff and put out proposals for that um it just needs to be an open process the chief just said that we can go to the chief's Association and it'll be across a broader that's the posting that's the posting the position yeah which we would do because we will also post it to on the league of Minnesota cities we do post to any of our directors whatever Association that would be like the planning planners Association we do post at all of those I have a quick question for yeah go ahead yeah if we approved this motion it would be it's a request for proposals so we can get those proposals we can see what they cost as to council member O'Brien and shoulders cost concerns it could be a local firm as council member Davis has stated her preference for we could select one or none of those at that time once the proposals came back that's correct okay everybody understands any more discussion are you ready to vote will you repeat the motion the mo the motion is to authorize staff to solicit proposals for recruiting firms for police chief position all right roll call council member Davis I sches no Butterfield no obrien no OS I Nelson I three eyes three nose it's a tie vote I'm going to uh I think what Justin just said a little while ago where we can get the proposals and we can make a decision at that time so I'm going to I'm going to vote in favor so four eyes is three nose all right thank you Council good discussion where what's that I just got one question okay so in the meantime can the city still go out and start searching or or we just going to be on hold until we'll be on hold okay all right budget discussions and I do I just call on you Tom okay y thank you Mr Mayor members of the council the since our August 28th work session the and then the following council meeting after that the council approved a preliminary Levy of 99.3% of an increase of our tax levy um uh the first page in your packet is just kind of showing a tax levy comparison from 2024 to 2025 proposed and it just breaks down of where the increases are coming from um you'll see the tax levy about halfway down um the operations and CIP is going up about $254,600 uh so that line so this is what's making up the increases on the very far right the percent of tax levy increase we were at 99.3% uh there were a few recommendations provided by Council that staff agreed to and we just adjusted it so now as we sit today is at 8.58% increase in the levy so you can see on that page of what is making up the increases of the levy um it's kind of split between the the operations in CIP the equipment certificate and then our debt service um so that's just just for your information the staff did did adjust about $73,000 out of the tax levy um if you flip over to the revenue page we were made aware that we were awarded a $25,000 grant for uh um money from Blue Cross Blue Shield to help out with our cultural diversity events that our director of cultural diversity puts on annually so that will help offset some of the levy and then we also adjusted on the expense side there was a clerical error in one of our departments uh so we we adjusted that and then our fire department we were able to take our training line down per the contract for our safety program that the city utilizes our public works department there was an other line that was able to come down by $7,000 um rack took a small increase or local option or local uh cable went down $2,300 and then our parks and wreck and their small tools went down by $110,000 and the directors um we met uh last week to go over these as well so as it sits right now we are down to about 8.58% tax levy increase we did receive other comments from the council but we didn't feel we could act on them until there was more discussion on them uh more consensus before we brought any different numbers to the council so with that I I don't know if we want to just open up for the general discussion right off the bat um or if there were any specific questions the council has for staff [Music] Council doesn't look like there's any than Audrey all right there is a revenue breakdown in here for City facilities would you mind just going over that or is that your not yours sure yeah uh um Parks director did put this together as requested uh at a previous work session just kind of breaking down what facilities uh bring in uh so on the left hand side would be really our um our rental income so it it breaks it down by the Civic Center our dry floor events at the which is also at the Civic Center are um show it breaks down like baseball surf or uh softball turf fields shelter rent so it breaks down what is making up our revenues then it also goes into the pool there's a uh 23 versus 24 I know there was discussion about potentially raising um maybe the cost to get in and then also our community center and our other adult and youth program so it kind of breaks down what's making up all the revenues um and then also this year one thing to note that he pointed out um this is through September 12 and the fourth quarter revenues for programs are not reflected in here and he's pretty confident that they will be where budgeted or exceeding that Rob Tre yeah just a just a quick comment I know um the community center it looks like the revenue was um $50,000 MH but our budget has doubled in two years out there or the expenses have doubled in two years out there and just a question with kind of the the process for what we're doing or what we're receiving for rent or I know I just saw another posting for a a position out there and just curious about the the Staffing and the growth and expenses with that I don't know if anybody wants to talk about that or not I I do know that the the cost of the salaries has increased and the programming has increased and that has been addressed and is is going to be continually addressed as um the uh General supplies line has come into question and that has come down from the original ask from the community center okay um but that is um the the director is well aware of that um thank you Justin when was the last time we raised the costs for Doak do you know the admission cost of $3 it's been $3 I'm sorry if I can answer that sorry please uh since it opened okay and that that's part of the charter with the Dorothy Olson Foundation to keep it affordable for All Families I me I think we can but that was part of the her deal with this was she wanted to keep it affordable for All Families but I believe it's been a $3 general admission since it opened it's the best deal in town then considering inflation these last couple years and and the prices at concessions have gone up um significantly during that time and that's that's a big money maker but are there season passes also available yes yes there are and I think those have gone up me I guess I don't know on that and I guess I also there in that same general area of the revenue budget I mean I get that we're being conservative when we're budgeting but it looks like in my opinion we're being really conservative I mean we're dropping you know what we made in 20123 by you know 15,000 we we assuming that no one wants to go to Dak anymore we had a short season this year because the pool was shut down for the first two at least the first two weeks due to the issue that we were having with the pump and such so and then we had to drain the pool again and clean it out again so we had a short and season and a lot of a lot of rain yep these are actual numbers these are actual numbers these are actual numbers work on season passes Tom go ahead don't quote me on this in season pass but I think it was $25 I bought misson one last year and I think I paid $25 for a season pass he went two times so see he made money off of us thank you did you buy one this year I didn't buy him one this year see there you go didn't have time with baseball and everything else so we certainly can address the cost when so this would come up these changes and fees and that will come up when we do the um fee schedules so we certainly can look at it then we certainly won't be able to raise it enough to to get 50% up you know but it would be something Kyle thank you Mr Mayor just for the U to update the Council on the 2024 fee schedule for the Aquatic Center uh indiv idual season pass is $90 family of two through six follow along uh 135 145 155 165 and 175 for a family of six so $3 for the daily admission Audrey are we going to review the the sheets that you passed out with requests from Members yeah we can do that so starting at the top uh this is going to go by department so the first the first Department would be the mayor and Council and the question was on the Printing and Publishing line why was uh why that why the increase and the justification or um the the reason for the dollar amount was that is the line item where The Branding expenses if there were any future branding expenses that's where that would come from and this is as Mr box has alluded to in the past this is as we buy a new vehicle it might need new decals it isn't going to go and look for things but this is as we need new decals or branding opportunities and I believe that is the same as uh our 2024 budget correct um the city hall the office supplies question uh this as as we Consolidated our accounts um with City Hall with our new Financial Enterprise Erp all of the Departments that are housed within City Hall are is centralized office supplies budget so all of our departments use the centralized office supplies GL code so that is the reason um that it has increased over the years um but so conversely the individual departments have not budgeted for office supplies Human Resources the there is a request to increase our uh Human Resources uh part-time employee up to 30 hours a week and with that that would uh allow this individual to or the person to get health insurance as well as other insurances uh so the increase in that is associated the most of the most of the increase would be associated with the insurances with with that position on cultural diversity the question was be is there a specific event for the U for next year for the Civic promotion and so every year there are expenses that are associated with several events that the director puts on in that department um we do have some City costs but we also do receive money from outside sources um grants as well as donations for to help the city put on these events uh we still have to code these expenses somewhere um and on on conversely we do have a revenue and we did recognize an extra $25,000 in revenue for 2025 as a part of the Blue Cross Blue Shield money that we are being awarded for next year uh the Police Department salaries was a uh question that was T brought up at the last work session in August um we are currently short staff uh so the um po potential recommendation would be to reduce by two uh saving saving roughly $250,000 um we would recommend as staff not to reduce that line or reduce the number of officers uh there years past has shown that we are not over budgeting that salary line within the police department as it is uh as an employee gets if if they retire or resign from the Department we do pay them eligible vacation comp out uh as per contract or the city handbook and also if we have um uh any settlements that need to be paid out as salary that would also impact that GL um on our budget so we do not recommend as staff to remove any salary line from the police department Tom yes if if I could too I it's my understanding that the SRO are not necessarily a done deal they they may be coming back um I mean that's that's an if but it that's not a permanent um reduction uh so if they come back then all of a sudden that's four more officers again so there be another argument against it I've heard the opposite is there anything official in conversations from Dr Adams or the school board board not with me I have spoken with Dr Adams about it there is continued interest in doing so it's just that they knew for sure that it would not be available in the 2024 2025 school year because of uh where they had allocated their monies already but okay um there's no commitment by the school for sure for for next year but they are hopeful and we have expressed our strong interest we would love to get back into the schools as soon as we have the Manpower and they're able to facilitate that to possible the school board can give us an answer on that before we're finalizing budget plans I can ask that' be good Audrey um I would just request that kind of the same thing that that our Administration perhaps make that call um to find out um what their what their thoughts are for this year or even for next year or for next year next school year excuse me right I'll continue on with the uh within the police department still but it's the awards um this has come up across multiple departments so we did a little analyzation of awards for the the object code um typically these have been years of service Awards and we've been uh dividing those expenses amongst the eligible departments uh the uh randomly I guess the police officers would would get plaques um small Awards here and there the fire department does uh a couple specific awards for the fire department such as Rookie of the Year firefighter of the year and a leadership award and then um as I said the years of service awards that we do at our annual company picnic for um longevity we did look at all of the Year service that are going to be eligible for this next year and um we can get you a little bit harder answer but so that number might be able to come down a hair um I don't know if we have an exact dollar amount right now but um it's it's pretty close Citywide uh we might just be able to adjust certain departments up and down uh but that's typically what the awards are for outside of the fire department uh the safety program with the fire department as I alluded to earlier on is our safe assure contract so we we're able to bring that original number down a little bit from the 14,500 down to 11,000 Public Works the overtime was in question why did the OT go up so much the 2025 budget is the same as the 2024 budget at 65,000 we do have historic figures in there uh the last couple Winters as you recalled though have been fairly mild um so it's it's all a question uh let say the overtime cost column is going to play in large uh the weather will play a large factor in that and then at the same time if employees choose to comp hours versus take cash overtime that's up to the employee so it's it all depends on um the employee who's working the overtime so this that is an unchanged budget uh request from 2024 the line item other uh this was an a decrease that was discussed amongst Administration and director uh Public Works director this did come down from 12,000 to 5,000 uh decreasing it by 7even uh the rack uh the conference and travel this we did look at uh previous year's expenses uh for this individual to go to conferences and travel so we did um keep that in there it did reduce a little bit uh but this is also an opportunity when when this individual goes to the conference to get better pricing on some upgrades that are necessary for the city so it's a good investment for this for the conferences to continue one is I think one is travel and one is within the state but um the auditorium utilities uh this is we're looking at previous years um we did let's see here we did decrease it from 50,000 in 2024 down to 40,000 um budgeted for 2025 parks and W the employer pension I would say the biggest part of the employer pension was the part-time salaries uh the part-time of $190,000 in part-time wages with the payroll taxes with the fer Medicare and as well as a couple of the positions do pay into per because of their uh their longevity with the with the city that they don't maybe have a pero exclusion anymore so 25,000 is just for the part-time alone as well as our over time for our full-time staff so and then I just looked right now we are about 88% of budget in 2024 on that line so we're this is a uh more accurate representation of what the city will be spending in the uh pension expense in the Parks and Rec Department the small tools line item uh the director of parks and rec did agree to come down from 50 to 40 adjusting it by 10,000 the awards oh I missed spoke earlier uh the awards from Parks and wreck uh also with this the uh the adult league winning teams get t-shirts now instead of a plaque uh it's also it's branded it can be uh also like an advertisement uh the director was saying um so this is something that they give away to each individual on the team versus just a single plaque for the entire team the rents lineup item we touched on this last work session uh the Parks and Rec Department is taking over all the mini beff rentals from Public Works they used to each do it now it's centralized in the Parks and Rec Department uh so the Public Works took a decrease in that line and the Parks and Rec Department took the increase net I think it increased just a little bit uh total on the rents uh but Parks Andre also had their own mini beeps before so it's it's a decrease from one Department into an increase in the other and then the community center uh General supplies line item uh recommend going down to 20,000 from 25 so those were the those are some of the rationale for uh some of the questions that were submitted to staff from Council uh just a follow up on these if I'm tracking correctly some of them you've done and some of them are you still asking for direction on or um in particular the HR one I know we talked about not doing that last time but I don't know if that was a decision or is it I lost it now or is it on here even the first page yeah we have not addressed that one uh we were going to wait for Council to have discussion on that or if they wanted to hear from staff from the director as well uh that we did take action on um Fire Department Public Works rack and parks and R for a total of and then also the cultural diversity we're at a clerical error in there a total of $48,000 in decreases um but a um a lot of these that we just discussed have not changed from the preliminary budget so we asked for a question on the sro's when will that be next meeting then or what are we yes the next time or the next time we have the budget discussion okay yep would you like to hear from rhr director in regards to the Staffing J I'm just wondering procedurally I mean you know I understand when you hear from one council member that doesn't mean anything right you know you need you need us to have a majority I mean are we looking for motions and votes tonight on going through on all of these I don't think so because we also have to finalize the insurance numbers so we really want to finalize the insurance numbers that are that we're getting in so that we have a trer picture of where we are at we want to make sure what we have budgeted in the insur for the insurance lines are is enough understand and if not we might have to to pull from other departments to cover the insurance lines so I guess my question comes down to like let's continue the conversation with human resources how do you how do you as staff want to know what we think up here we just individually well I guess we want maybe to provide a broader insight to you on what that really what really happens and what kind of work this staff person does I think it's important that you understand what that staff person does and the meaning of what her job is and that so that's why I was thinking that maybe you want to hear from our HR Director as to why she feels that this need is an increase in regards to that for sure I'm just wondering when it comes time to decide if we're going to cut this or leave it in how we make that decision well maybe there's other things that we could cut instead of the Char Department too for any of these things how do we find like again like so council member Nelson says I want to cut 30 grand out of whatever and the rest of us think that's a terrible idea how do we I mean if we're not voting on this are you waiting till four of us say yes to something or how does this work I'm assuming you're going to have terrible ideas later in this only if I speak after you as long as it's not your idea um I would say that you know we will probably we can put some harder numbers to everything and then maybe at that point in time when we want to in I would say we talked about that we would probably just finalize this budget probably during a council a regular council meeting because I think we're very close in that regard um I would personally like to see where it just is right now cuz I think that uh the tax levy itself the tax rate is is only going to increase by what about 2% the tax rate um we've worked very hard to get it under nine um and I think that you know through this whole process also want to remember we have done we've looked at past budgets corrected budgets and made some adjustments because like we said the you know in the past if we all look through the audits we've had we've had departments that are over budget and when you see that time and time again there needs to be a budget correction and so that's what we've basically this year a lot of these accounts have been budget corrections but we also if you go back to that first page that uh Mr Odin went you through walked you through the just the general operating and CIP that's said 450 ,000 that we've talked about that alone is only an increase of 2. some per interest or 2% so I think you know overall majority of the increase comes down to our equipment certificate that we've added it's the it's also the street Levy of 2.4% that makes up the 8.58% so equip certificate is 2.96 City Hall is 43 we you know we know we want to continue that we want to because we're we've got it in the past budget so we don't want to drop it and Street Levy is 2.24 so the rest of it just the 2.95 is just a small increase for operations and the CIP of $450,000 which is something else so that we've talked about that we have to continually try to increase that because we know just in your Capital Improvement sheets that we've provided you know the the request annually are close to 2 million and we try we have to try to get that into our just our normal budget process trucks and cars are not inexpensive anymore a plow truck is 290,000 while that's close to in in your budget process that's close to almost 3 2% 2% of your tax rate if you want to look at it that way so every $195,000 is a percent of your tax rate I think back to my original comments I think my intent for tonight and my desire would still be that we're cutting from where we're at right now and trying to get a consensus from where my colleagues are at would be helpful where would you like us to be at um I think that's a difficult number to come up with right now and I appreciate the work that's gone into it and and as we get deeper into this you know there aren't easy cuts there's nothing in this budget that is bad right and so I think it's it's our job at this table to try to try to evaluate you know nothing that nothing is is luxurious nothing is bad it's just how do we balance that with the interests of our constituents and the taxpayers of this community trying to find what's right for them as well so I'm certainly interested in hearing from our Human Resources Director because uh that would be the top of my list uh as well for as I'm looking for things to cut here so did you want to speak lean thank you so I prepared some information ahead of time just because when I was thinking about the request I didn't just do it because it's like oh let's just put some more hours in HR right so I'm just going to read what I put together because I meant to get this to you I just didn't get it to um Mr Box on time so um the increase in human resources department hours and the current metrics that I've i' Pro I've got some metrics that I looked at through the league of Minnesota cities to kind of see in cities that have the similar full-time equivalen as far as numbers of employees as we have plus the influx of the summer seasonal staff and this year all of the election judges and everything all of that you know onboarding offboarding all of that and just the the sheer size of the department um itself is like 1.5 a little bit maybe a little bit 55 1.55 for us um most most of the other cities had that had similar size FTE were three or two and a half and so I mean it's not an exorbitant amount but there's also been a lot of increase and the more you know complex compliance issues that come up with HR the city's only had Human Resources since 2017 so there's been like a learning curve and a growing that's needed to happen there are you know policies and procedures and things that needed to be updated or written for the first time and also just learning all the different departments and how we can assist because there's a lot of things that we need to make sure that we know what's happening so that things are being done according to Legal practice and all of that and so and not every director is going to know those things unless they have us partnering with them so in order to free me up and give me more time to do those kinds of things um that was part of the impetus as well and this isn't just for a person this is for a position because right now I mean I have a person in that position but if I was going to try to replace the position um I think having that that number of hours and that work's not going to go away is important and I also think it would be for recruiting purposes it would be beneficial to have the benefits along with it so those were the couple of things that I looked at we did I did come up with numbers I had the job description attached and all these things so I can probably get this stuff out to you guys too as you're considering what you'd like to do with the position Audrey um couple things that you said um would you be better off with two part-time people so you don't have to pay benefits and you could Flex that time and have you know more more hours or from that standpoints versus versus when you look at the difference that the when someone goes over 30 hours what you pay in benefits um I don't know I'm just asking that um is that a possibility to do to 20 hour people it probably would be I mean my concern is just finding somebody who wants to only work 20 hours a week and then the other issue is is that it would probably be a wash if you think about it the cost that he's they're saying for the benefits is about 20 20,000 25,000 I'd pay more than that for another staff person to work halftime Tom about how many hours are is that department putting in per week my department yep we have a full-time person and we have a a05 person yeah how many hours per week are you guys averaging about uh 60 70 80 hours a week between both you guys what do you guys um I'm an exempt employee so we don't track hours on mine I don't have a number for you for that but I know her hours because she punches in and out on a Time Clock which non-exempt employees have to do so I I mean definitely working more than 80 80 hours of pay period so and she works about 26 a week so instead of so she's really it's only adding like eight hours to her schedule right now instead of 10 per pay period what's your desire Justin I just one of the comments you made is that this is a relatively new Department 2017 uh you said and so there's been a there's been a lot of front-loaded work for that you were saying like there were policies and procedures that had to be created for the very first time I'm assuming now that those have been done I would assume quite the opposite then that now you're free to do other things knowing that that front-loaded stuff is you're getting a department started has been done and I'm also interested I don't know which council member uh wrote this but uh it sounds like some history of this used to all be done by the city clerk uh I'm assuming that the city clerk is not included in your 1.5 FTE for your department no when they hired the Human Resources Director um in 2017 that person was there for a couple couple of years and then they hired a second one and they were there for so there's been some work that has been done and policies that have been created but of course you know the legislature changes things every year I mean we've added the all the ESS language now there's the Minnesota paid leave I mean there's always changes and updates that have to happen it's a continual process and we have to also part of our process is to review those policies and procedures every year and make updates and changes as necessary so yeah it's not going to I'm not starting from scratch and rewriting them all the time but we're also trying to make sure that they're accurate and they're up to date and then also trying to make sure that the staff are aware of all of them and because that's a lot of stuff remember so just trying to send out just in time types of information about all that so Tom after listening to council member uh Nelson bring up about why not hire another halftime employee is majority of this time going to be when we have our seasonal ones looking for seasonal parttime employees is that what we're really trying to help her out with or or would that be an option though um I don't know I mean that's it's it's just sheer numbers it's not just in the summertime and we the I can get you the information here unless you want me to go over it with you as far as like the numbers but I don't think that that matters as much as the amount of work that it it entails when you have to do the onboarding offboarding training I mean we're doing benefits enrollment I mean things are happening year round so it's not just that time of the year Carl uh does this person is she just HR work or is she doing things for other departments as well she's an admin assistant for HR so all of the departments in the city pretty much have an admin assistant and most of those are full-time okay Justin um do you know the current FTE for the city total mhm we're at 115 115 mhm do you know I'm really testing you now so I apologize but do you know what it was last year um 110 110 it's a moving Target just depending on hires and terminations and resignations and sure yeah for and that's that's full-timers then you add on top of that all of the part- timers sure I guess my question is basically have we seen a drastic increase in the amount of employees that the city has no not drastic I wouldn't say okay Audrey um so the figure on the sheet that we have is 119 614 if you didn't add hours onto that staff what would that figure be I'm sorry can you repeat the question the figure that we have shows $119 19,618 if you didn't add is that for the full department for sta salaries that's what's listed on here human resources salaries 119 614 if you didn't add hours how much would that reduce that figure just a clarification council member Nelson so the the line that you're referring to is for the fulltime for for the director's position only the part-time would be under the uh 5020 the temporary would be the salary temp salaries temp 37,000 would be 30 yeah okay so what would it be if you didn't add hours that that is current I think isn't it the two figures at the bottom here I see now it would probably be a reduction of about $5,700 there's there's about so it's an increase if these bottom figures then are reflective of the totals before and after 234 969 or 208 829 so if we didn't do it there's 20 is that is that the difference I would say the the biggest the bulk of it would be the insurance because as the Director so that's the 25 26,000 there it is deduction 26140 I got there sorry the salary the salar is temp 5020 that already includes the additional four hours to bring so it's more than that to bring that job description up to 30 hours currently she's working 26 hours and we would bring it up to 30 hours and so there could be a reduction of about $5,200 in the salaries temporary so it' be about 303 $30,000 if we didn't do this correct okay not a lot Jus I'll would just say that my answer for this one right now is not right now not this year it's not a forever thing maybe it's in 2026 but this would be something I'd like to see removed from the budget before it comes back to us next time Kyle or to you got anything Leslie say if there's any additional input from the council at this time I can't hear you sorry Mr Mayor if there's any additional additional input from the council at this time specifically for this line item otherwise we will make note of it and um can make that adjustment Tom after hearing everything that was brought up by everybody I think I have to agree with the council member off on this one I think we just with the way inflation's going everything else is going right now we need every cent that we can get I would like to see this put on hold too for another year and I would like to ask off or chief police felt one question too on this subject well no not on this subject but it's on another one oh it's clear this subject first Audrey I'm not the person who put this on the sheet um with but I think in light of um where we're at or just the conversations that we've had i' probably in N for this year and wait for next year any other counil members like to weigh in on that I guess I would agree with that as well um I I understand the need but I also wonder if it can wait another year I'm in agreement with that as well I couldn't hear you Vicki I said I agree with that as well Tom well we don't Tom already all right uh Tom you got a question for the chief chief Phil we talked about this last time about I think you have four new squad cars this year in the for 2024 or for coming up out of this budget in 2025 it was uh brought that back to two oh you brought it back and then are we going to hold on to the other two that is our plan to retain basically all the all of our squads right now because we're again uh per the council's wish is trying to make them last longer get every bit of life we can out of them type thing before we Sol but let's good to here I know we talked about it I just know exactly where we're at on that I think that's the right call thanks J Carl I have a question for Justin Andor Tom um regarding the overtime so last winter let's hope we have another one like last winter uh where overtime hours were way down I'm assuming on on snow removal what happens though if we have another winter like 98 where you're out plowing every night uh what what happens to that overtime budget if it doesn't get used where does that money go and then what happens if we have to go way over budget where does that money come from that's a good question uh council member sches the if if the a particular line item isn't used it isn't unless directed by the council to be carried over to the next year it would just go to fund balance if it conversely if it is over budget it would come out of fund balance and we'd be spending more than what we're taking in deficit spending so um and we can do that we can deficit spend I would say no that would be cutting into our Reserves so the the numbers this is just a budget so like you had mentioned it was a light winter last year so that we we didn't see the need for the significant overtime but once again I mean it's hard to predict for the future and so also if it goes over you just hope that you probably have budgeted enough in other line items it's actually the total balance of our general fund we just like to keep our budgets by Department in line but it actually is what what is the very end balance of the fund that matters not line by line Audrey so um I know that you track the the time for snow removal um you've done a lot of other things um do you track like the time that you devote to community events and I know rock and Robbins was a bit of a rush a couple of times um did that create overtime issues for your Public Works staff yeah uh thank you council member Nelson um we do track overtime for every event um whether that be like you mentioned Rock and Robins or showmobile rental or a traffic signal goes out in the middle of the night you know sewer calls things like that um it it's um it's always a moving Target I'll say that because you don't know how many inches of snow you're going to get you don't know how many events are going to happen where they would like to use the showmobile on Sunday afternoon um or they rent to a shelter and we need to you know go clean it or rock and Robins you name it um we do track that and that's all part of that and then um as director Odin said to earlier the employees um because of the contract they have the option to get paid their overtime or bank it as comp time and so that's always a um a tricky one to Target as well does that answer your question yes yes thank you would it be an option I don't know if I like it or not but would it be an option to say that they can't take it cash that they comp it no okay and I don't know if I like that idea anyway but you can that's outlined in contract yeah okay Justin um can we talk about the library budget which takes me back in my book and um no it wasn't one that we had set aside on on the sheet of before mentioned but I know we were having some conversation last time we were talking around the budget um that that number is higher than it would be required to be sure I can jump into this uh council member ask uh so administrator valian and I had an opportunity to meet with the library um the number that we had discussed last time um that we receiv received from the state that is the minimum amount um required for municipalities to fund libraries uh there should be a caveat to that uh was we found out that number has not adj been adjusted since 2012 um so in order to successfully operate a library um I think we can all understand that it takes more than that minimum set by the state um to have a successful operation at the library um these budget the budget request that we received from the library was for an additional 5% over last year's it isn't a it's not a it's an Ask uh so if there is Direction uh to come at at that 5% or a lower number uh that is up to the council's discretion um but I would just wanted to make sure that we were all on the same page on that minimum number that was provided by the state of Minnesota that has not changed on the last 12 years so um and at that if I remember right doesn't the library send the city a letter saying fund us pay us this much and then we make a decision what we're going to yes yep we did receive that letter a month or so ago um and that's what we did bring that up at the last work session at the end of August uh we briefly touched on it and then administrator Banton I met with the library after that so yes do you remember the numbers it is what is in the budget here 496 669 almost half 49666 that's a 5% increase from last year of 473 018 I guess my again this is me personally as one of eight I'd like to see us hold to last year's budget and and um and not increase by 5% but I'd also be interested to hear I think we have a rep on that board right like if how their financials are currently yeah I missed the last meeting they had I was daily on it when I sent back but I think there's a state law though they have to have an increase I'm not sure I was told that no last year no when we met with the library uh librarian head librarian there she said this is just a request that's what they can do they the state sends out the minimum which that's what they did too and like she said they have that minimum has not changed for the last 12 years from the state which is kind of crazy but that's what they've done so um so they ask from the library themselves and they send the same ask and they send the same information to every city that is part of the Pioneer Land library to make up their entire budget so um they understand that you know maybe at times City's budgets get a little difficult to do but um my request would not be to go down to the state required minimum just to deny the 5% increased request which I saves us about $23,660 yep I'm Audrey I'm switching subjects though um looking at um I know we're not talking about CIP but we're talking about including 450,000 to fund CIP um the figures that you gave us with the changes that you've made so far bring the levy down to 8.58 if we didn't do 450 we did less than that if we stayed with what I mean last year we did 350 how much of a difference ises a does that make $100,000 not quite 1% on the levy about a half a percent about a half a percent roughly if okay Y and um I I understand the the concept of you know that we have 450,00 th000 to spend in CIP but looking at the CIP there's some things that really do need to be done and others that are um how did I hear this um must haves versus wants um kind of thing and so I worry a little about us not making some decisions on that and coming up with a figure that we actually need but I understand um I understand that we can't fund a lot of things that are in there so I'm not quite sure how other people feel about the CIP thank you Mr Mayor and just just a general just a general comment for the council from a operations and planning perspective when it comes to CIP um and not not necessarily focused on the 2025 budget but like I said from a planning perspective in order to plan efficient effectively and efficiently for our Capital Improvement program um ideally staff would like to see that number eventually continue to climb uh so we're not asking the council to get or not putting the council in a tough situation year-over-year to um look at such a large list of projects and have little funding revenue or funding to um to fund those projects so I don't know if if it would be a recommendation from staff half necessarily to see that number reduced any any more than what it is uh especially from the sense that we want to continue to grow that to grow that number uh last year we spent CIP was right around 1.1 uh the year before that was 1.8 so we kind of hover between million plus between a million and two million over the last we'll say seven eight years um now we know that some of that was a lot of that if not all of that was deficit spending um but there has been there are needs now we whatever that whatever that magic number is in the future that's for us to continue to work towards but I just want to make sure from a staff perspective that the council understands and from a planning perspective as well that we want to see that number to increase uh long term have question yes suggestion thank you Mr Mayor um we're considering selling property in Redwood Falls currently correct yes that will come before us uh as soon as we get an appraisal we'll have a closed session on that okay I'm assuming that's do we have a ballpark on that no no okay I'd like to see us uh with the sale of that property we can those funds aren't required to go anywhere I'm assuming is that right pardon the funds from the sale of that property aren't going to be they would be put in the general fund okay I'm I'd be interested to have some conversation about spending some of those funds on the CIP and also the possibility of putting that in the community investment fund um to replenish some of those funds that we've deficit spent on in the past um I see that as being a a funding source that can that can offset some of the items that we're talking about tonight and I think for that reason I'd be I'd be open to council member Nelson's idea about reducing that by about 100,000 as well Audrey um I do in in looking through the CIP not necessarily some of the things that are in next year's but going out just have a real concern about some of the things that weren't funded with the with the local option sales tax and kind of that wish list out there that I'm not sure we're we're going to be able to do um you know that that we need to focus on um things that need to be fixed but not necessarily new new things and um you know with taking a look at um any real improvements in some of those um areas maybe just can't be done unless there's another local option sales tax or something else so um I I worry about that but I also worry about getting behind in fixing things um at the same time and what brings people to our community and I think that becomes the challenge I think with what are people willing to pay their taxes for and you know do they are they going to worry if it's 7% or if it's 8% this year I don't know but I think we basically said last year we just can't do this again but I'm not sure with costs um how we don't have an increase um also and I I know um I was at the league of Minnesota City's um Retreat last week and everybody put up on the board what they were doing and it's it was all over the place but it wasn't unusual to see a lot of communities in that 9 10% range that they just don't have any choices and so um where's the balance to keep our community growing but that people can afford to live in this community I uh along that same line I I want to make sure that we stay the course on City Hall planning for it on our streets continue to do what we're doing on other facilities our employees we we need to stay the course and uh sometimes it's puts us on the edge but we got to make sure that we do it Carl I guess I would just Echo that too we need to be really careful and and how much we cut back on the CIP it it's part of the reason I think why we're struggling now is because we've kind of Kick the Can down the road and we can't keep not funding things and now all of a sudden stuff falls into disrepair we can't get new stuff um eventually some of this stuff has to get done and so I think we need to be very careful about being too conservative on on what we're doing here um I I am all in favor of keeping costs under control as much as possible I I don't know if zero is is possible I just I know that was a goal but I I just don't see that happening um but I think we just need to be very careful about kicking down the road too much or or cutting too much where cuz eventually some of these things most most of these things in the CIP are going to have to be paid if not this year next year two years when it'll be even more expensive so Tom I don't know if we can do this or not but I'll ask question I we're at 500,000 for the city hall 587 is proposed for 2025 okay so I don't know if we could drop that down you know to 500,000 and move the 87 over CIP and you know if it doesn't get used we can move it back in over to City Hall in a year or two I don't know if uh you know we could legally do that or not but is that an option to help with the CIP that way we'll have the funds and then when we need to push that money back we can bring it back to City Hall and just you know we'd have the same amount in the budget but we'd only be locking in you know about 500,000 for the city hall that would be an option council could do that it would require Council action to transfer across funds um but that it is possible to do that correct yep all right where are we at Justin I just had one other thing that I noticed when I was going through the budget that i' personally as one of eight like to see cut and reduced and that came from uh Planning and Development the $100,000 uh request for professional ad Services I think to promote um the the comp plan which is a great thing and I think I had asked you last time we were here what it might look like if our own staff was doing some of that work as opposed to getting Consultants to come in again what I'd personally like to see is that go from 100,000 to 50,000 and leave you some budget to do that um maybe reduce a little bit of what you were planning or how much outside help you'd get but would love to hear your thoughts on that council member o I appreciate your consideration for um for the 50,000 what you are looking at with the proposed budget for Planning and Development as a proactive budget um you know 100,000 would not limit us to go after certain grants that we can have matching funds for currently we're operating this year on a $10,000 budget and it's just not enough um you all made the initial investment in um completing the comprehensive plan that I know has been a project that has been um stale for some time and so for the last 5 years or so we're really making great progress on it I would hate to see that you know we're Limited in the sources that we can go after and the implementation um from a comprehensive plan yeah and and I appreciate that and again want to see that grow by going from from 10 to do 100 in one year again there there's nothing bad in here we'd love to fund it all uh but trying to balance that with the needs that I think we' have heard from our constituents that we can't just keep doing what we've done in the last year and at the same time we have to prioritize the streets we have to prioritize City Hall and so trying to balance that is what what brings me to that leslee uh could I suggest that that goes to 75,000 instead of the 100,000 we drop it down to 75 because of course we don't know what projects are going to come out of it right now but I would until the comprehensive plan is done and that won't be presented to the council probably until well final won't be done until January February first part of February but I would like you know I think that out of that comprehensive plan we're going to see some housing needs and things like that and I think we should be prepared for those kind of Professional Services that go along with that and I think housing probably is on the top of our list of priorities in the planning department and probably on the council side so um along with that that number that you see there that is not only just what would be in the comprehensive plan but that is also when we we have to have Professional Services for things that come up within the planning department itself if there's um anything for um that the engineer needs to do for the Planning Department Plan reviews that kind of thing those those come out of there they don't go in the engineering budget they come out of the planning department because they're for the planning department um so anytime we have a new company come in and the plan reviews need to be done for that company that comes out of there too so that's just kind of correcting this budget also and cuz you can see even just this year this year we're at 117,000 already and even though we do you know work with the con developers in that and get those funds back but we still do have to account for them somewhere too no I'd be open I'd be open to that I'd rather see 75 than 100 um since you mentioned housing are is this areas that we could still allocate arpa funds too uh we'll go review our arpa we don't have very much arpa funds left but we do have anark on housing and the arpa funds too and there are other earmarked arpa funds that haven't been actually spent yet that we could reallocate as well uh I don't think there's very much there's a little bit we're currently working on that report to bring back to the council there are some funds we the council will need to take action on there those remaining dollars before the end of the year anything else all right what do we do now we take it back to well if every if the council's reviewed everything that they want and um we'll we'll take these suggestions and then we will come back with a corrected version of where we're at and um like I said I think our thought process was that we would be able to since we're getting down to the final here that we could have this discussion at um probably the October 21st council meeting instead of having another work session that sounds good that's when we would you know bring these changes and such to that because we would like to have them probably at that point in time say yes we've cut this enough and then this would be what would be presented at the truth and Taxation on December 2nd Audrey so if we if we get there and we're not there yet we could hold a special meeting before December well certainly okay and then you know if if we get there and we got then is all our Focus would be was on the the capital Improvement what you want to spend on for the capital Improvement because that's going to have to be decided but that all that can actually be done after when the budget is set because as long as we know what how much money we've got then the council can decide just where to spend that money okay are you comfortable with leaving it where it is now and having staff review and come back with a revised yeah I just think that so much depends on what the school wants to do with sro's so I think getting an answer from them is going to make a big difference so with that that would not come in to the revenues would not come in until the fall because that's when their their budget is going to start 2025 26 in June 1st so Audrey um just curious with the SRO I it would be nice to know that too but the request or the conversation about reducing four officers to three officers or something like that the future of SRO affect that in any particular I can't answer that Chief you want to answer that if I understand the the uh question correctly is if the school would instead of going having four reduce it to three two how that would affect um Staffing and just the just the Staffing since we're four we're down four officers right now correct we aren't going to do SRO could we change the budget to three officers for next to recruit three officers for next year um with the numbers um with the duties kind of thing is that a possibility um from that standpoint and I know the conversation at least before was that was not be recommended I'm just curious with with um that conversation sure I would strongly recommend not reducing that number right if you gave us 40 officers we would have spots and jobs for all of them right now we're running we have 32 officers but two of them are in field training right now so they can't even take a call by themselves or anything so in essence we're down to 30 which is probably a early 2000s number for for our staffing level um just because we don't have SRO in the schools we're still responding to the schools still taking calls there it's just that they're not stationed there throughout the whole day you know one thing that we're doing too is that we're arranging uh for dare yet this year um we're doing that uh doing you know Captain Anderson has done some creative scheduling the the a trained officers are being very flexible with their schedules to allow that other officers are too um by not getting our staffing up that takes away a lot of flexibility a lot of the mandated training that has to happen will could potentially be overtime instead of moving officers around between shifts and and that type of thing so there is an adverse effect that way too so um you know I I hope the hiring crisis changes here but I don't see and and police Chiefs around the state don't see a a rapid wave of of officers comeing this is probably a many many year thing to try and get back to adequate Staffing levels and right now too we're dealing with more dangerous people all the time you know just the homecoming game from the other night I'm sure most of you are aware of what happened that took every officer we had plus the deputies coming in and even then it was a very volatile situation you know since 2017 we've had six officer involved shootings since since that time I I went in my career two decades before that without a single officer involved shooting we need every officer out there for the safety of the officers and the citizens that we can get and just looking ahead for the police department um in about two years here you're going to see another wave of officers that are eligible for retirement and going in about five to six years you'll see another wave coming through just the way the hiring process has been and you want officers with some experience to to follow in those waves too so I I would strongly encourage you do not to to cut that number thank you for your information yeah one thing mik you're talking about officers responding I think it was a week or two ago that he had three three squads respond to the middle school as well correct there was a two staff members that were assaulted by an individual by a student that fled so um that was pretty much the whole shift responding to that to take care of that too so all right are we Kyle sorry to keep the subject going uh Council but just uh administratively as well for council's information um not necessarily looking at the just looking at the numbers uh when we look at the salary line item for the the police department budget Uh current PD salary uh is 71.8% year-to date um where we're at with payroll as a is 73 so we're right on budget for payroll even though we are budgeting for four additional unfilled positions so what that tells us is that there's additional expenses that are coming out of that line so uh which would like we had discussed earlier when employees uh retire or leave employment um vacation sick leave that's all paid out of there as well so um so we're budgeting appropriately for the number of off officers that we have so I I think for your consideration to look into the future as well um you might be looking at additional actual increases to that PD budget to make sure that we're accounting for um not only additional unfilled positions but planning for the future of the the police department as well retirements retirements or other right um so long story short we are budgeting appropriate for the the Staffing level that we have now in 2025 y well we don't budget for is retirements or staff leaving so when they leave and they have been with us long term they have numerous hours of sick and vacation that get paid out are we done we're done we're done sort of I don't know about you yeah all right I'll go on then any Community Pride announcements um the other week uh I want to give a shout out to Habit For Humanity the other week I was in Sperryville and I also a brand new house up big sign have for Humanity that's very good I'm glad to see that was going on because that's one of lots I I was talking about last year and the other year trying to get harpa funds for to purchase these lots to get a house out there uh it was very interesting to see see that out pville I think it's going to do very well kudos to Habitat for Humanity for doing that for us all right thanks Tom anything else if not I'll entertain a motion move to adjurned second we are adjourned but