##VIDEO ID:-M8GyCqu9F0## okay welcome to December 16th 2024 meeting the armouth Board of Health in recording in progress thank you for the recording good um okay let's take some attendance Here Charlie are you here calling in from home no Larry yes's here Mary here and Eric present okay so we can move forward with that as usual just let you know this is a hybrid participation meeting that really comes back a few years ago out of the governor's office and that just means people can come here to town hall or they can uh watch us at home and participate actively so that's in effect as we continue so public comment is the first item of the agenda and if anyone would like to come forward and speak whether virtually or here anybody anybody checking in we see anybody any hands up nope nothing okay next this is Cape Cod Farms 252 Route 28 this is a tobacco hearing um our last Board of Health meeting uh we looked it was also a tobacco hearing of the same uh issue and that was a violation from November 5th I think 15th 15th of 2024 and uh we essentially tabled the conversation and waiting for um basically from the uh Tobacco Control uh Department we have a director it's Bob Colette and he's been director for years so we just wanted him present e either virtually or here in town that's why we decided to wait to the next meeting sure sure um anything on this no I I would say this I don't know if uh representative principles from the uh cape card Farms want to come up and introduce yourselves so w welcome back thank you so much just for the record we just need to hear your names okay my name is GIS and my name is Manish sha okay thank you again um you know why you're here I assume yeah okay anything you want to say before the board kind of takes over so what we say like uh we don't have to like we already said what we have to say okay so we are here for the Bob so he will just okay so certainly like to hear from Mr KET our tobacco control services director okay thank you uh Mr chair Bob Colette director cap card Regional tobacco control program so just on the morning of November 15 2024 you know in Yarmouth and um where we doing the the inspections now is rather than go in and do all of them or half of them on one day you we're sort of spreading them out over the course of the year uh so we do a I know a handful of month and it happened to me in the neighborhood that morning and stopped into Cape Cod Farms um at 252 Route 28 to do the routine annual inspection and um you know upon just glancing around when I walked in uh the product in question game green cigarillos I saw them immediately in two locations uh one in the the there's a a display case on the counter and then and then the power wall of course behind the the you know behind the counter known as a power wall with all those products on there uh so they had they had them at two locations I didn't say anything initially but having done this work for 30 years uh whenever there's a violation or an illegal product of some sort they leap right off the shelf at me you know the products that are not supposed to be sold yeah so I noticed it right away there is another similar product called game green sweets and those are not illegal but the plain game green is a vanilla product vanilla flavored product that's been uh you it's the retail environment has been well aware of this uh retail Community has been well aware of this for years um and so they again they've had them in two different locations and I completed the whole inspection then notified that the person who was there working on that morning that those products are illegal to be removed and returned to the um distributor um so you know yeah I I don't find those around very often now and again I'll find the the Distributors generally know that they shouldn't be S you know providing this to the local retailers and the retailers you know have a a great responsibility to be well aware of the law uh all all laws pretending to Tobacco including and one of the most important things you know the flavored prod that flavored products are illegal to sell in Massachusetts so that's it I mean you know there's no question about about it um they also did that green site and you know several other legal products of course but this one is definitely illegal and it was not green Suite it was just plain game green and again in two locations within within the store did did they remove them when you told them that yes so you understand what the tobacco control program director is saying Mr KET is saying you understand what he's saying yeah we okay understand what he's saying but at that day so there's only game green feet so you there when he was yeah at the day so I'm helping my uncle my uncle had some urgent work so he asked me to stay here so you don't remember removing product that Mr Colette said was illegal so at that time I was new in this like I'm not like a experienced who is working there so I was like I don't know about any idea what is legal when I I told my uncle that that guy came he asked me to put back and it's not legal so I don't know about that so I just asked my uncle to and the guy came and he said to so I but I had to ask so I just told to him when he get loot later so uh he at that moment he come to the office and stole the field like we got this so you told your uncle about the inspector and about the product that you were told to remove yeah and did your uncle understand yeah my uncle know that the game green speed is legal and what he right and did he know that game green was not legal yeah he know that and he didn't did he know that that was the product that was at the store when Mr Colette came in yeah I just when he came back from this work so I I was there so I just asked that he asked me to remove that and give it to him so he just tell me that that's legal so that's what it is B did you feel like they understood what you were saying when you were in yes they they removed it and I and I advised them that you know that needs to be returned that it's illegal and that it's vanilla flavored and it needs to be returned to the distributor who should know better um you know again for the board's benefit um when I enter a retailer I always lead with education uh there are several products out there that are flavored right now that are not and they claim are claimed by the manufacturers not to be flavored uh but game green is not one of those uh you know they're all required to have a letter from the manufacturer that states that for every product that they sell that the product is not flavored and in many cases um you know this it's just it doesn't happen the the letters are inaccurate and so forth but it's long been known that game green is indeed a flavored product um so there again notified the person who was working that morning and asked them to remove it they did they took you know and then I put the one in the front case on the counter and then there was some behind the counter and the on the lower shelf uh and I pointed those out and asked him remove those so he took both of those and you know there's like a stairway in the back there that goes up to an office I presume so he you know stuck him back up there in the stairway um and that was that you know so uh in this case you know I I felt compelled to report the violation for sure what would be your recommendation so this doesn't happen again for the store owner well I I think in this case the board doesn't really have any any uh you know there's no opportunity for variance here you have to you're compelled to um to fine in this case and issue the attendant uh suspension of the sales permit for the period of time uh but they need to know better you know I spend a lot of time and effort trying to educate folks and I know there's a lot of turnover sometimes with ownership and staff and all of that but you know the bottom line is in the end when a when a retailer has the the privilege of a a tobacco sales permit from the town of Yarmouth it's their responsibility to understand what the law requires for them to operate in a legal manner and in this case um they were selling a flavored product and there's just there's no variance uh to the uh penalty phase in this right yeah and just so the public knows and what uh besides the fine what else is there we talking about well also a required suspension right we recommend three days I think you may have issued a similar suspension uh you know fine and suspension for a First Defense within the past couple of years so I I would remain consistent with what you did previously so fine was a fine would be $1,000 and I suspect you probably did a three-day suspension yeah sure I move that refine the cap CL farms at 252 Route 28 a $11,000 fine for for having for sale a an illegal product and that they have a three-day suspension of their um tobacco license and we can talk about when that will start okay so we need that before right um usually we we talk to the okay folks and see I'm fine with that if you want to someone wants to just second motion so we can discuss this in detail second okay now for discussion about uh when to have those three days start do you have a preference when to start the suspension it's three days when you won't be able to sell tobacco if I could if I could help here you don't have to close your store you're just not allowed to sell tobacco products for three days okay okay no you know about I can come with you front sure you come forward just introduce yourself okay absolutely have see my name is sures and it's my brother I tell help to him that's the meaning he have a violation right yes and you're talking about 3 day he don't sell in the tobacco any product right but but he didn't sell any game Grim he's selling the game Green feet because he know in the last 15 years Des kind business he know about 2019 appro probably June something they ban in the G Grim he know was the product on the Shelf though it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't matter if it was sold Simply Having It On The Shelf is a violation no no no they don't have it in the Shelf they have in the Shelf inside in the the store game green sweet not g green okay that's that's not what our inspector is saying sir I don't know now we decide I don't know so we need to move forward on this so as a courtesy to you we're giving you uh the choice in some ways when to have those three days start where you would not be able to sell no I understand because you have a all kind invoice when you buy those game Green site when he buy you don't have you can check in the whole all invoice in the store I can bring them to whole years I don't have any invoice game green so I have all invoice game green sweet let's go ahead and start the the um the suspension of the license um Wednesday that gives you tomorrow to put up signs or put up sheets or whatever you need to do so that people know that you cannot sell tobacco for 3 Days Wednesday Thursday and Friday of this week okay it starting the probably Wednesday I'm Wednesday then I didn't head you ven Wednesday starting Wednesday you may not sell any tobacco M for three days Wednesday Thursday and Friday that gives you tomorrow to do whatever you need to do to alert the public that there are no tobacco sales that will take place at that store Wednesday Thursday and Frid Friday mhm and all your employees need to be aware of this obviously right any other precautions Bob that should be taken care of um no you know like I said yeah you know they're I always go in and do Education First this particular product kind of you know just leaped right out at me so and also the board should know that they you know despite assertions to the contrary there was another violation that was found there just uh on Eight Days Later by the um Mass Department of Revenue um so there at that particular store which I received a letter on and so it's like you know they're conjunction with the FDA so I could look up the details on that but it it was probably either an illegal sale to a minor or um you know unlocked humidor or Massachusetts tax stamps missing or something like that so the store is not without its problems right but they had two violations from two separate U organizations within a eight day period right all right so yeah but no uh you know just make sure for the for the store owners uh make sure that anything that you're selling is legal um always need to have the manufacturer letters in him for any product that you're going to put out on your shelf game green is definitely flavored you cannot sell that it definitely was on your shelves on that day despite you know what you're claiming right now um and there are several other products and I'll be sending out a brief list to all of the boards within the next couple of weeks for people that you know retailers to refer to and will'll also include um products that are not approved by the FDA some several disposable Vape products that will no longer be legal to be sold uh you know there are only a handful that have been approved by the FDA they're not there is lots of the stuff being sold illegally in that sense but we're not we're not um enforcing on that at the moment so um look for those look for those emails coming up soon and um just be very careful about what you're going to attempt to sell in the future what you offer for sale one of the comment errors we've seen is that on the day of delivery uh the correct person so to speak may not be there and the product is put on the Shelf without really being looked at so it's a common mistake that's made that's one thing I think the store owners need to be aware of right now you know they didn't have there are there are some products out there now that are um Backwoods products for instance that are claim not to be and they're all you know backwards black backwards smooth backwards bold I've been having the retailers remove those from the shelves uh just as an educational measure because uh there they have been unaware and this has been going on for over year but it takes you know I have about 400 retailers and you know I don't I go to a few every day so it takes a while to get to 400 of them um but those those used to just be sold under different names like uh you know Backwoods white Uh Russian cream or uh bourbon or you know things like honey berberry so they've change all they did was simply change the name of them and the retailers are unaware of this so in that sense you know I treat it as just an education thing and here you guys take this off the shelf return it back to the distributor these are flavored don't sell them anymore and then we leave it at that you know but this is again this is a product that's been widely recognized as a flavored product for a long time and so when I do find it it's a bit of surprising to me but um it does pop up on occasion so and uh in those cases we you know that's that's what the regulation is there for to to enforce upon it okay thank you so that was discussion now we have a motion on the table we need to vote on it so all in favor of the motion raise your hand say I I unanimous okay all right we move along if I could well I do need you to drop off a check for $1,000 made out to the town of yoth that is the the board the the penalty to this and then uh the the health department will come out and take a look as the board has directed Wednesday Thursday and Friday just to ensure help you if we can but no there can't be any visual tobacco products um open for sale so you can kind of think that as Mary said kind of configure that to what what will make sense tomorrow and but that starts first thing on Wednesday and when do you expect the check Wednesday Thursday Friday he said no the the actual payment it it should be delivered tomorrow okay okay and uh you want to take it out all stuff in the outside yeah you just put in the plastic or something in the all tobacco it you you can jump in here Bob but it shouldn't be it shouldn't be visual for the uh for Consumer to take a look and see right there should be a barrier there technically it should be removed from the premises you know but that you know if the board doesn't want to insist on that then it should all be out of out of view at least uh because if you know if it's not removed from the premises then this what's to prevent them from you know taking care of customers needs you know just by going into the back room um to get what they're asking for I but that's up to you it board members any I would hope I would like to think proper signage signage and out of sight they can use sheets or you know something that would just up I'm fine with that that you that you I think that's reasonable I think Eric you're okay with that fine gentlemen do you understand proper signage at the door multiple locations and then a visual barrier so that customers would not be able to see tobacco products but it's clearly delineated that tobacco products are not are not being offered for sale okay okay letting them know and then letting and I think the board made the point is it making the staff know or maybe Bob did that your staff needs to be made aware I don't know how many people you have coming in over those three days no they're not going to reach behind the whatever barrier you put up and then uh and then we'll be back okay I have one more request if you have a possible can I give it to for one week time for I can tell to customer I'm not selling this 3day and you know the question I'm not sure what the question anyone repat a little more time before we three days a suspension what in other words one day isn't enough is that that's one day is not enough you know right enough for what I want to tell to all customer I'm not selling this product in the three days enough to put up some signs in a sheet yeah she and everything you know I think it's enough I don't think so yeah well as was a Coury we actually asked you first so I I think I think as stated we're going to to start okay we're not going to wait that's sort of what we said that's going to go into to effect okay okay can I just clarify the dates on that we have the days so 18th 19th and 20th correct correct of of December 2024 thank you great all right that's consistent with what the board has done in the past we don't delay you haven't delayed it's it's implemented immediately if not yeah and as there always say we really don't want to see you again for this kind of problem all right it's a lot of money and we understand that and so do you J to make sure it doesn't happen again no okay no doesn't he didn't make a mistake I don't know what happening with him I don't know okay because thank you for coming in yeah thank you okay okay um next uh number three here melow Wilson crur bog fresh from the vine septic system Title 5 inspection and it's listing two property co-owners Brian Wilson Steve Wilson that's what's on our agenda for tonight Mr chairman if you remember at the last meeting the board had had had taken a vote and asked for within 10 days for a Title 5 inspection to come from a uh a septic inspector a registered and licensed uh septic inspector that hasn't happened um we haven't received any report yet uh I don't I don't see the property owners here but but uh Barry uh Lewis has gone out to the property you have pictures um and I think it gives you a better illustration as to uh this isn't just a Rin station that they talked about an outside shower and then Barry maybe if you could just kind of inform the board as to what you found on on your visit so my first visit is when I got the pictures um a few months ago so and it's clearly a a nice tiled uh shower you can see the pictures of the uh of the washer and dryer I I of the washer um when the Mr uh Mr Wilson Steve said that it just flowed out into the parking lot I was curious about that so I went out the next day to actually I got called out by Brian Wilson the brother to meet him out there I got out there the son was out there he said I not allowed to go inside without a warrant I was fine with that I was like I just want to see where it's where this washer and the shower draining out to he said well actually right here we're standing on the pit that my father did did dig I said so he said in the meeting on live TV that he it just ran out into the gravel and he never dug a pit and you're telling me now there's a pit right underneath me he said yes there is a pit right underneath me so I said I that's all I needed to know I said I still want the title 5 inspection to be done just to see where it's going to um the it's probably less than 50 ft from the water that provides the water to the cranberry bog and that water also goes to Lewis Bay so it's to me it's a very big um environmental hazard that this pit is being used so and then we never got a report that you guys required requested so did they ever ask you for a list of there's been no contact with them and that um the other part I did check with the Buildings Department um there's been no plumbing permit they talked they alluded to the fact that well maybe we'll just disconnect or we'll do something to maybe alternative to adjust no permits have been pulled in that regard either and that would that would be required this is not for disconnect if you're doing Plumbing right and there was would they would disconnect that um and eliminate that say well there's no need for a uh a Title Five system here because we don't have any Plumbing here we don't have anything no water is going anywhere well again again I didn't go today but I did check to see if they pull a plumbing permit for that they have not but they're they have to have had Plumbing so they have water for the shower they do for the installation there's no plumbing permit either okay yep okay um tell a pit what does that usually involve I mean is that something uh just uh probably I don't know the size that they dug like if there's uh pits now like in previous history it's usually a 6x6 6x6 cinder block or brick um dryw that water just flows into and seeps right into the ground so that's cover up with soil yeah just covered with something and with some kind of lid and then covered back up with dirt so it's just it's just leeching into the into the ground without any um engineer design make sure it's a assess pool like assess pool I know about them grew up with one I mean it's fairly straightforward uh that 10 days produce uh the inspection report it's not been done no um and certainly the town has the right to request that unfortunately no one showed up here tonight what is the recourse then so I would recommend if if you if the board were so inclined uh to direct uh the health office to put this into housing court and and uh that's in Plymouth and that's where this would be heard that would make would make the uh the testimony that in fact there is an illegal septic system or maybe there isn't a system that is required that's the perk test the engineering and the installation none of that exists it is required from what we can see here um and that could then go in front of a clerk magistrate so if if the board would to vote we can put this into uh the recourse right now is unfortunately they're not here to hear from them is to say um they put this into housing court so would that be a notific an official letter from the Department that we just go ahead if the board would direct the office to do this we'll file this in housing court and then they will be made aware of that they to appear from the from the court yes it's up in District Court if um if a Title Five inspector went out to that um property would he or she find the pit what they do they' take a camera through the drain of the of the washer or drain through the shower and they can snake it through and find it that's how they like if a colonoscopy yeah literally it's going yes they're looking for the same thing but that's how they do Title Five inspections like in if you sell your house or your purchasing house and they can't find the this the the distribution box or the sub anything like that they have like 150 foot snakes with cameras with tiny little size of a pen and they go through and they can see everything find root overgrowth or structural damage so it's it's a very easy process to do so since Mary you brought up the point the colonoscopies aren't 150 ft long you're aware of that the dinosaurs they might be but uh the rest of us no uh while we're on idea about that technology that's amazing or sometimes do you ever use a Dy to put down there and see does it come out anywhere uh I guess you could to but a lot of times what they'll do they'll they uh they can flush like if it's a regular home system that has a toilet they can flush a like a like it looks like a pill and then they can trace it where it goes to that's how they can find it also but those are one one time use only and they're done after that so well you brought up the of a toilet and colonoscopy we haven't mentioned we' talked about a shower and and washer and so on is there a toilet there no toilet toilet no toilet they there is a porta potty on site okay that's right okay so just a shower and a washer machine hopefully these pictures will let the board know it's a it's a it's different than what was presented at the last meeting so that you're aware that this not elaborate but it it is substantial well constructed and this is an indoor shower and a washing machine area and and there are Provisions within Title 5 for um a graywater system and that that can be done we just we have no information whatsoever and it's required okay we should move ahead with I guess a motion um I don't think we have any other option especially since nobody's here representing the property I moved that we asked the health director to go ahead and file a complaint with the Court Plymouth Plymouth Housing Court Plymouth Housing Court regarding the um the neglect of the uh owners of the Wilson cranber bog to have the septic um inspection as we required at our last meeting or to have any contact with the um Health Department about why not thank you Mary that's clear um so any second to that motion second thank you any further discussion probably not okay so all in favor of the motion raise your hand say I okay it's unanimous okay we're done with that great Jay you're okay I'll keep the board informed as to and there could be oh I got to tell you Housing Court does a pretty good job um moving things along but I'll keep you posted as to what that hearing what the dates and the chronology of that what that will look like okay what do you suspect that they're going to require this owner to do just remove the shower is that t typically they're going to ask you they're going to ask the complaint and say how do you want to comply here you have there are regulations and there's environmental consequences here either you're going to remove this your choice or install have a you know we're going to have a a perk test we're gonna have an engineered system and it's has to be in compliance with Title 5 these are environmental violations and they'll probably lay them out to say which is it that you want to do remove the the infrastructure that you have in place or comply with Title 5 that would be my guess remove with properly pulling all permits and stuff too so right liar you're fairly new here do you know what a perk test is yes great all right I certainly didn't know when I started out great no I understood the whole process what what I didn't understand is since they agreed to remove everything to begin with when they were here why we just didn't let them do that in the process because there's still a there's still a pit there and I what's to stop them from putting something back in there so if if if they want to abandon this abandon the pit and everything that the pit needs to be filled in all piping needs to be destroyed going out to the pit and they can tell us all day long that they took out the washing machine and took off the head of the shower but what's stopping it from I pull out and I leave and they just just put it right back so to properly abandon a system it has to be demolished and and completely abandoned there a long history on this I recall what he said though that he told us there was no pit there was nothing there yeah that's what he said then I went out the next day and the sun said there actually is a pit the son had me was videotaping me the entire time and said that we are actually standing on the pit so that that the father had dug but Larry you're correct there there is a process to decommission assess pool or even a title F that'll happen when the sewer system as it moves along into people will be decommissioning their Title 5 systems as as Barry said they're pumped they're broken open they're crushed they're filled there's a way to do that and that's potentially I don't want to presuppose what a clerk magistrate will do but that's an option that he has but there's a process to that it isn't simply telling us well then we'll just disconnect we would go out and take a look at that to make sure it's no longer functioning but that yep that's an option but this is elaborate this isn't just an outside shower that you after you've come off the beach you rinse your shoes yeah or you rinse your feet rather yeah I can see that yeah all right I'll keep I'll keep the board posted as to uh how that how that moves forward thank you okay uh number four on agenda is green burial and a draft regulation uh which we certainly got the draft in our packet um sure So what at the last meeting and I think the the board gave me some information and some kind of some margins here to to now build a uh and again a draft I'd expect I don't know um there are edits involved did I capture everything um and I thought just thought possibly if you had some time to look through this to say okay do we have do we have enough of a a comprehensive green burial policy that with edits that the board may have once that is finalized um we' have a public hearing uh then there would be a vote and then it sits up at the clerk's office for I believe the numberers 21 days anyone can appeal they can comment and then once that appeal period is over then it would be enacted it gets publicized and enacted should we have hearings that's a hearing a public hear I did yeah public hearing yeah but I'm not moving this forward into I wanted the board there may be some edits here there may be some things to eliminate um did I capture everything I wasn't sure um I I I'd like to um recommend that we contact the U applicant burial to let him know that it's not going to be possible on his property because it is zone two and we've heard that there's no variances to zone two but that we are moving ahead with formulating a policy and that we're very sorry that you know this this is the outcome and that that it has taken so long Mary thank you on that Hillary and I both had that same concern earlier and that's why we were a little bit delayed going into a number of things we were going over as far as making sure but that was one of them to say it's been months since we haven't heard I haven't heard from him but we haven't I don't want to dead end that communication either so we we we said exactly those things but um so yes that'll be I will reach out to him it's clear he has no options in sense of the the property and Zone too that there isn't any I mean that's that's the point there's no potential variance of any sort there's no room on the property for this period because it's in zone to or part of the entire proper not the entire not the so is that's what I'm saying is there room on his property no if because the rule is if it's if part of it's in zone two the whole of the property is considered in zone two correct right well just has to be really clear to him we ow that you're referencing the rule I just want to clarify where is that rule coming from that that's the rule that's been followed for SE is it septic system installations where there where if a portion of the property is in zone 2 therefore they consider the whole property to be in zone 2 right that's right so I just want to clarify I mean I think that's that was up to us and at our dis discretion as we developed this how we wanted to handle that no we don't have what you all you and Barry both said we do there's no variances there was in we don't have any variances in for the septic there's no variances and if this is in zone two we have been told you're not allowed but this isn't a septic no no no I I know I guess I guess I was I was trying to give the analogy of what what Eric was alluding to but if it's in zone two it is not allowed if what's in just to be clear prop the pro if the property is in zone two entire property they don't they don't give yeah they don't they didn't divide this and say well what about but if the burial lot is in is outside of the margins well actually if you go further down if you do the buffer zone it's not going to be allowed it's not going to be allowed anyway but if if a property is located in zone 2 it is not all Low by is it D where did you find it there I think it was DP and the water um the water department said that if it's in the zone two it's not well we just can't be wrong about this so uh just because D said that we we need to because we I don't think we ever heard back from been you've been you've been in contact with the regul yes I have they they said it's not allowed in the zone too so they didn't say half a property or anything like that it's the way we go by it is if any portion of the property is in a zone two the entire property is in a Zone too well right I guess my concern is you're saying that's how interpret that but that's that's a a um precedent that's been set for a totally different process a totally different issue so I just want to make sure we're thinking about this no I'm GL to grow it up I'm not confident right now listening that's all what have you heard there some documentation they say zone two that it's not allowed on zone two so they don't say the property or not I can do some more research on this reach back out to D on it and the water commissioner right and see what they say yeah a definitive because I I understand what you're saying but that's we're drawing a parallel between two completely different uh tasks I agree just to be clear though on this Barry didn't reach out about septic system he was reaching out about green burials right yeah right so that you know although there is anal there's an analogy here as as far as well we use that same that's that's the same calculus is being used for two different purposes what we need to determine if so they're not specific like if if it's half of a property or a quarter of a property they said if the property's in a Zone too it's not allowed well that that's what I think we need to develop some clarity on okay if we're discussing Mr Ross is certainly not going to be sure exactly where this is coming from so once again I don't we need more than just that's what they said we need to know where it came from where's the regulation supporting what they're telling you Barry I I um if you could just ask for that in writing that would be that would be helpful that' be helpful to the board as well as from the water the Yarmouth water department well you you you do have an email I don't have it with me you had that in the past where um Lori Roso had uh had said had provided an email for you in the past I can get that again you may have if you recall said that not the rec recommendation not to be allowed in zone two I mean I that's not good enough I mean for us to that doesn't say because of this this town regulation or the state regulation you we'd like something solid that says yeah I I will look up her email I I know from what Lori said they're not going to approve this policy at all the what water department is going to um protest I agree I don't I I don't think you would get if if you ever get another application this one or others I I I I don't want to presuppose their vote but I or their determination or decision but I don't think that they would no I mean I that that's that's how I read that email you know that they weren't going to they er on the side of caution right right yeah I mean if if it's under Section Five number one no green burials will be allowed on a property within zone two you know if we're going to say that any part of no portion of the property may be may fall within zone two of the aquafer Protection District I mean that would just have to spell that true I think more clarity not saying oh well you know only the back right 30 by 40t of the property Zone to why can't I do it over here yeah you're absolutely right I mean you brought up the the property was in Brewster where was it was 16 Acres let's say it was only 10 okay was 10 fet was in zone 2 and the rest of 15 acres is not that's my concern yeah I I I could I know Barry's been in touch with d I I don't know that they divide that divide it up that they they actually I from our own DPW we send them a an address and they say well that's in zone that's in zone two or that is not in zone two we have a map ourselves we usually cross reference that with DPW because a lot of times people will ask can I get another bedroom I said well our map shows that no you can't we'll we'll call down or email down to the do they have the same determination that you're right it's in zone 2 an aquafer protection area no that's not allowed you can't upwardly adjust the number of bedrooms from 3 to four or 2 to three something of that but we want confidence in that um and that's that's how that's determined with well the the the back 100 feet is not in zone They Don't divide they don't you know subdivide it that way this definition of zone two under definitions on the draft it said it's a Wellhead protection area that has been determined by hydrogeological model and approved by the Department of Environmental Protection drinking water program I just so it's the the the town does the modeling right and and then the D makes the determination zone two is a is a determination by TB a zone two is determined that's that's Tak that's taken right off their website go found the email that was sent so okay you want me to read it or do you I can't read it I can't read it from here um hi Jay we would like to prohibit green burials in the APD which is aqua for protection district for our water Consultants recommendation the guidance states that the viruses and microorganisms can live for many years after the barial so theoretically um theoretically those micro organisms can get pulled into our wells green barrial are not specifically called out in the zone 2 regulations or are AP bylaw I would be in favor of adding that to that restriction to the APD if necessary so okay so so what they're saying and I was going to ask that zone two is what we usually call AP the aquafer protection yes that's usually what Carl is talking to us yes ma'am in that terminology and so what they're saying what the water department is saying or or Jeff Colby is saying is that um the the designation of Zone to does not specifically speak to burials right it's very vague correct yes I just don't view the burial as being within Zone 2 personally you just need it's outside of the I mean in this particular instance where we had the applicant the burial is not taking place in zone two it's on a property with a portion of it that's in zone two so I think we just need to be specific about that and how we're going to Define that if if if if if 10 Elm Street is in you know but some of it isn't is that considered Zone to either you're all in you're all or not or are we going to get down to the specifics of measuring well it it really cuts off at this point now you need good size lot for that right it doesn't happen that often where where Zone 2 was going to carve a portion this Happ in this case it does in this case it does happen but many times you know it's all it's the vast majority are those on the border could front yard isn't in zone two backyard is or vice versa there could be instances like that we talk about number four a buffer zone to zone two consistent with the Yarmouth Conservation Commission regulations must be maintained where are you Mary number four on draft second page under section two number four okay I thought I I thought I got section section five I'm sorry thank you approval requirements no ye yes number four on the approval requirements five y sorry thanks Larry a buffer zone to zone two and our wet Lo in the burial pot so yes I mean if we change that and said well we're not going to go with any part of the properties in zone to the whole properties in zone to they would still have to have the buffer zone maintained from part of the property that's in zone two right or or if zone two is on an adjacent property is yeah good point doesn't have to on their property so the set back other point that the zone two could be on another property that's sorted with in a certain right didn't have to be a buffer zone from that so it it it just seems to not specify a specific measurement is rather arit arbitrary because if there's a series of properties and even the adjacent property is zone two it may be only 10 feet to that adjacent property but yet that person that's applying for the green burial would be able to under these rules he would be able to comply with have having a green barrier when in fact another person who has ample space on their own property but is in zone two you know part of their property is in zone two they could be precluded from having a green barrial you know you know what I'm saying maybe I'm not describing don't that's clear I mean I think that we could still say no burials in zone two I think and not say that and and then just say that does not mean that if a part of the property is in zone two the whole of the property is considered yeah you could just get rid of the wordss on a property in uh item number one no green burials will be allowed within zone two meaning the burial because they have to have a plan that goes onto the de plal PL Z however there will be um buffer zones maintained from any zone two as well as any Wetlands or whatever with stating what the distance you decide should be okay right well the distance be it say consistent with the conservation Comm specify as in section five um number four the buffer zones of to zone two EST Lish why the by the wetlands that might cover right the issue right and it says if they comply with yeah Wetlands act they could or the Wetland regulation they could still uh have a a burial on their property except that that's not going to be the same as the buff and although we've never we've never discussed a buffer for the APD right we've never had that come up I mean as far as I when we make it uh when we approve I don't know that we've made any exceptions we've we've approved um it hasn't it hasn't come up as a a a question or an issue so I'm I guess what I'm getting at is the wetlands may not be the last word in terms of a buffer zone it may be that there's something um in the aquer Protection District regulations that talk about buffer zones are there is there something I know there are some in like conservation and building have some but I'm talking about a the APD because that's basically what the water department is going to be sure concerned with right and and I ref when we talked about buffer zones I I hopefully I took it accurately from the last discussion it was referenced the Conservation Commission buffer zones is what we talked about and that's what you said here right but I'm just saying there other I there may be other buffer zone requirements maybe well certainly um you know we haven't talked about this much but Carl might be a good one to ask that because he's been doing all of the APD stuff for us years one of the things excuse me one of the things that we haven't talked about this is private there's not a lot of them but they're private Wells on another property that could be within and some of the setbacks if if you if you recall one of the one of the handouts that you had in the past that you had received and I understand you you've received a lot um one of the setback requirements for private well I think it's 300 feet I mean that's there's a number of different things but I just said I thought that would fall within the concept the catch all was within the Conservation Commission but you know we talk about that yeah probably not though probably should be SP pardon me I don't think the Conservation Commission worries about the drinking water wells yeah I don't think so set back to Wetlands be wrong yeah yeah I'd have I'd have to check and see um yeah I don't think that would come under their jurisdiction because it's not a pollutant no it's it's the so there number of different things so not only do you have to have the geological hydrogeological study on your you have to you have to look at the ab Butters have be notified that that's in there that's the board had voted that but then also a survey of within a certain zone is there a is there a well not just a public drinking water well that's a good point where that should be included it should be right this is complicated if you think back we had an issue of some horses uh oh no we're not going to talk about the horses yeah because then we'll talk about the burial of the horses I think we should specify that it would be a well portable water because some people have Charlie's not here to tell us how many horses he has on this property the point I was going to make is to get a survey of of the neighbor's property has a whole another element to this of I don't and it was a issue with the horses of what's going on at the neighbor's property the distance from the property line their house um in this circumstance where's the water line where's the gas line I mean there's some complications is uh if the burial site is close to the uh property line so I hadn't thought about this well it wouldn't be though right I mean although we haven't said anything about that we talked about this now setbacks you're talking about yeah we said it was consistent with the building C like if you're going to put a shed if you're going to put a garage there are certain boundary setbacks front side and and rear setbacks consistent with building I think we said zoning just number five right right can I can I just make sure of capturing this right so number one is no green burials will be allowed within Zone 2 right so that and we're going to I mean I'm just one no I'm fine with it one person here that's an edit that I would put in are you agreeing with that I agree with it if if okay the language is okay for you yes no green burials would you say green burials or green burial plots what's the difference yeah either okay it's fine would there be a a distance that we should specify to zone two well we talked about a buff a Zone to zone two okay Andor Wetlands consistent spelled out they it says consistent with the Yarmouth Conservation Commission but I pointed out that there's probably something about a buffer zone to zone two in the aquafer Protection District regulations so it's not just the the conservation committee that's would be concerned with that but it would also be the zone 2 APD one of the things we have to keep in mind is just think about what we're doing and the complexity of it you have to remember these regulations are for the public to be able to understand it a little bit something I think in writing this to understand that that's all just to keep that in mind as we move along on the draft well I think that if you know if we go through with this and it happens that the health department staff will be helping people understand this when they come in because because yes this is pretty technical stuff and they're going to know want to know well how do I know that where do I go for that information I I'd like to know what is consistent with the armouth conservation commission's regulations I mean I know there's often 50 foot or 100 foot buffer zones when conservation areas in question but I can almost guar I'm thinking back to conversations talking to Britney I I don't I don't think green burials are called out anywhere within conservation but there are setback kind of requirements things of that nature so and again not to make it analogous with the septic system but I just thought those there would be standard setbacks that could be applied to this policy it's Wetlands W yeah and I think I say that in there I think I said uh did Andor Wetlands right Andor Wetlands I mean and that's and there are specific right you're the one who's taking notes I mean how are we doing I mean for you I mean we're here to help also yeah no it's difficult we all take scribbled notes it doesn't mean you know it's making sense we do want to we want to look at I'm going to include something with Wells and and and yes kind of off camera but uh Eric said make sure it's not irrigation Wells but potable Wells like drinking water wells okay because other yeah yeah we could make it real easy and just say none allowed in town we could say that but I think we we kind of agreed that we wanted to pursue a policy is that correct was my feeling but do we want to say no and just we can discuss that and now is the time to do that before you're going to put more time into this Jay I mean are we going down the wrong path board are we well could it be legally challenged if we made a blanket statement like that it's legal in the state to for green burial it is apparently somebody said it back in 1960 we don't have that record yet right no you didn't find anything from that we we don't Mr bulock I believe is the gentleman's name I I I I can tell you this in the municipal again in the municipal cemeteries across the cape Brewster is the only one that does a lot green burials So when you say Yarmouth does Yarmouth allow green burials for their for their Municipal Cemetery they do not well but that's not what we're doing we're talking about on private property no but it's consider it is the it is the process of inter turning a body and and and in the municipal Cemetery they don't allow them oh you're saying that people can't even have a green burial in a no formal Cemetery had that come up yet have we no in Woodside up in yarmouthport they do allow them that's a private Cemetery a private Cemetery but Municipal you know Municipal cemeteries Brewster allows them no one else across the cave and these backyard potential ones are not cemeteries no no that's one way to sort of bypass that no no no question I'm in favor of pursuing the draft regulation I I don't know how many requests we'll get but you know I think it's important to keep in mind that this particular applicant we have and I think anyone who's interested doing this is doing it in the spirit of being environmentally conscious so yes there's a lot of issues for us to look at and they're challenging and there are concerns in terms of environmental health but you know this is a process which is you know it's an alternative that's intended to be much less have much less of an adverse environmental impact so I think it's worth pursuing and I suspect if we put the work in and and do have some regulation in town we may see some additional applicants in the future I don't think there'll be people busting down the door at the health department to get in line for it but I think it's worthwhile ie I mean there's a trend for this in the country I mean there organizations specifically for this so it is happening and it's it the way you're describing it's part of our our mission here yeah um so I agree with what you what do you say I agree with okay okay so we'll continue okay um one one of the things um I put in variances at the end but one of the things that came up that you know because this is a now generation this forever changes of property and I didn't put in could two generations from now can it can it be reversed can can a body be removed someone someone buys a property and said okay we're going to raise and replace we're going to get rid of the but I also need this is an encumbrance here and I need to re to remove in to remove the body I don't have that anywhere here and I I would say no that that canable Pard me once they decide that right could open up a whole own L my point being is Can it can it be reversed answer is no no no saying no then I won't even then I won't even speak to it I won't even speak yeah great consideration I've got to realize that when they do this okay that forever property if forever changes that property right okay well it's on the deed it's that's in there it's on your the board has asked well actually the EP but we we reiterate that that it's on the bo that's in the deed um that would apply to the present owner as well as the potential new owner of the property right if that gets transferred on yep so does the O former owner come back and maintain the property around the burial says current owner or the owner the the no I think as long as the buyer knows this and they're they're responsible for okay taking care of nine Mary number nine it's h the property owner is responsible for ongoing I know but I just said if somebody else buys the the land knowing that there's a grave on it does that new owner have to keep yeah they're the owner they're the owner of the proper but they're the owner I see what you're saying but it's a good it's a good point Mary you going to be taking care of someone else's grap site and yep that's kind of what I think that's what the board had said that they were going to be responsible so the pickle ball court K go on top of this you're saying what's that again swimming pool pickle ball court it cannot be over this height cannot okay just so that to to me brings up a question I had on Section six number two under recordkeeping um I think that the health department should keep the records and maybe you were going to anyway but you're just saying that the property owner has to um maintain records also but since you are getting the application um from the person who wants to be buried on their property um and you're going to be viewing the burial because says you're going to be witnessing it that those records also should be kept with the health department because I think that would I just think that's that should happen because yes property is going to change hands I agree and I think somebody other than a property owner should know if we have officially somebody need some official exactly kind like how we keep septic we keep on going back to septic records but exactly okay so we're going to we change be maintained well the property owner should tooo but we should definitely keep department for 100 years yeah good pickup and then the other question I had in that same section um I didn't know that the armouth clerk's office um issued burial permits they issue a death certificate which would then certific death certificate but that's not a burial permit no no so what do you get I get the death certificates the funeral director probably then goes and gets a a burial permit so there is such a thing as a burial permit there is yeah there's permits for everything Mary we we don't see them but I do get death certificate like covid deaths yeah oh yeah I was gonna say you're do right I've always dealt with a funeral home so I haven't had to deal with the burial permit um okay so where would that come into this where would it's under section six number one okay any green burial site or service provider must obtain a burial permit from the armouth clerk's office prior to operation or burial they have to prior to have permit to bury the body right that that's something the funeral direct some of this I I don't imagine family members are going to be digging this would typically be handled my guess is when we met this goes back now three months ago probably we met with a funeral director and and they have done home burials right but but what I'm saying is you're saying the applicant to us to to to the health department for a green burial has to come to the yoth clerk's office and get a burial permit or their agent the funeral director we could say or but basically you're not dealing with Funeral Directors at this bomb when you've got a green burial and even well I think the attorney even said they don't like to even get involved with because there's no money in it for them basically well actually he he had done he he had been not not in he'd gone out to other states and and done some green burials he had he had talked about that it's it's just the respectful handling of the body whether it's the uh the C you know the material of the casket transporting the body things of that nature just the sheer fact of the equipment yeah I think there'll be a service involved with parlor yeah even though it'll be a different process than what they're used to very different but it'll still be a service that they're going to be required to provide there has to be some equipment to to dig down into the ground is that four feet or yeah four feet oh yeah but typically a funeral home doesn't have to provide that no Cemetery typically does that right we're not talking cemeteries we're not no no I know I've just answer your question typically the cemetery they have equipment they have backos that do that work yeah okay so someone someone's going to coordinate all that but I mean what about the issue if someone who's Innovative has equipment and just can do it themselves who transported a body doesn't bother them they have a a vehicle that can handle it right what happens then well they would still have to get the burial permit so if to get a burial permit right but what's stopping them from doing the whole thing themselves could be Financial I mean the reason why someone will do it on their own and we decide if somebody from the board of health is going to inspect the I think that's the last one I wrote that yeah we said that would cover that number 12 in section five but it says here this permit will be issued based on compliance with all applicable environmental and health standards so the burial permit can't be obtained until the applicant has come to the health department and met all of our requirements so from is saying so from this not the last step I they still have to go in front of the the selectman also well no but I'm not I don't want to get there I just want to talk about the permit you can't even apply for a permit until you have gone through the Health Department's process of meeting all of the exactly right and I think Mary yes that's true and and I haven't even come up from this I'm going to have to come up with an application and also a helpful checklist do you have this do you have all the different pieces and we do this for number but I don't want to use an analogy because it's it's disrespectful to what's what this issue is but there's going to be have to be a helpful checklist for the applicant to say do you have all these things some online other towns have done it or started to do it okay yeah but but I don't even have the I don't even have an application yet and in a in the board I don't have a fee either what what does it cost I don't know um I what is underground marking tape I've never heard of that I have a question mark next to that also go ahead marking tape I've never heard of it so like when you bury um any kind of Eric you probably know this like you we any kind of electrical lines any gas lines there has to be uh a magnetic it's magnetic colorful tape that they put on top of that then they back fill it in so in the future if somebody starts digging in this area there's a noticeable change you hit that with a with the escavator with a bucket and all a sudden you see a tape it's an international sign that say well you're you're going on something that shouldn't be disturbed okay that's what that is so that brings up like Dig Safe yeah you have would would this come under their jurisdiction no I wouldn't say Dig Safe but you have to call Dig Safe anyway just so you know where the water lines and gas lines are but it's I I would do it just for a 50 years down the line a safety a safety top just long lay it on top of it sure um sometimes they'll put in different soil as well they might put a lay of rock there's something an indicator so is metal that doesn't it's it's a kind of like caution tape but but this it doesn't disintegrate this has biohazard on it it's bright red plastic takes plastic thousand years right 100 Years Years million not say that word but Verizon or any of them any utilities they they lay down tape yeah I thought that was a great I just didn't know I I never heard of it yeah it just disa because I've come across it doing perk tests and stuff like that all a sudden we be dig and all a sudden you hit a pocket of gravel with this on it you know instantly right then you have to stop digging it's that's why we put it in there it's good indicator I have just one more comment and then I'll be quiet because probably other people would like to make some um back on section four number two casket slash containment um only biogradable materials for example wood wicker bamboo or untraded cardboard may be used for caskets and I don't want to say or shrouds because you're not going to I don't think you're going to use wood work or bamboo or untreated cardboard as a shroud but what do you use as a shroud with a green barriel you can use a wool you burlap sack you can use they can use their grandmother's afin the herb something like that they could use I think I think that's covered by only biodegradable materials can be but will we have given examples for the biogradable materials and I'm saying that does not include uh examples app for shrouds so i' like to say it's only biogradable materials blah blah blah blah untreated carboard may be used for caskets or ex gradable fabric well wool or something whatever you said you said materials materials um textile organ texile textiles biodegradable textile right here here's one definition it was on the list that I found somewhere was for shroud maybe that should be one of our definitions before we started this I didn't know what a shroud was so this had said fabric Cross or sheet that wrapped around sheet would be too generalized but some something's biod degradable at least a fabric cloth that is wrapped around the deceased for burial often shrouds have a builtin rigid board for carrying or carried on a shrouding board that was the definition that doesn't mean it has to be this but it certainly shroud should be on our list of definitions I think shroud goes on definition so a shroud could be any organic material I think so that's up to us organic material that's that would cover everything yeah as long as it's organic material because that's going to which is what R is so I'll then insert that into number two or or or or at the after caskets or a shroud made of any organic materials okay okay right okay did this capture what the board is looking to did this did this capture what the board is look somewhat with some I think it's great I I mean I have a few notes in here all but someone else want to speak up of suggestions I had a few oh you do great well so how did we leave it with the buffer zone to zone two um did we have a specific measurement or we just going to leave it we it with the conservation department and building department see what their okay what their requirements are that would because that would cover uh zone two on another property as well definitely right okay um one thing we have talked about his cremation um people thinking they want to do that desert it's not a green bar right so I think a definition would be important because people may be ready we had talked this about putting in earn in the ground and that's not really what we're talking about for green burials um the only thing to spread ashes per Massachusetts state law is you just have to have permission from the land owner yes that's all just permission and actually that could be in a municipal we get that's happened that uh DNR gets them for on beaches things of that nature yeah right the definition if it's helpful here that I copied I mean I didn't write these uh the process of extreme dehydration evaporation created with intense heat which reduces the composition of the body to inorganic bone fragments so how's the how's cremation people may have the question is it related it's not allowed it's allowed that kind of thing maybe there not GRE it's separate right I people may not know that thinking well at home I'll just I'll just put it in the ground so so almost giving the exclusion of a green burial is not cremation actually give the positive give the definition that a green burial do not include does not include I could put that in there it's a method what I write in bombing flu with allowing me about to naturally decompose I can I can continue on with another sentence to say this or green burial is not does is not include cremation right right okay yeah good what's more environmentally kind cremation is not it isn't absolutely not why not it takes a huge amount of energy and it's also polluting the um oh I see you you talking about the process of PR process yes I aside from getting there getting to the ashes well yeah but that's another issue well it's not I mean it's all together well not really interesting I hadn't thought of that also I was just thinking the end product is ashes and then talk about whe they're and that's already covered they said that's already covered in Massachusetts that's allowed you can scatter the ashes you just have to have permission of the property owner that's true but but but actual cremation process is beyond the scope of this discuss because yeah because it's not green that's why that's how I see it it's not green that's not going to slow people down for do oh I'm not trying to slow them down no I mean no did we answer the question so in the definition of green burial I'm just going to extend that this separated the the process from the disposal of the ashes and and probably what you might say is this does not include cremation um scattering of Ashes is handled separately under another what regulation I even think we need to what is it called I mean when you what what where does it state that you have to get permission of the property owner is that a state law you Massachusetts I have it I say my desktop so okay so you could just say that is covered under state law that's General law is that really an issue here well yeah U because it Hill it brought it up well somebody and someone somebody might think that oh I want to do a green barar I just want to my put my ashes in the ground and yeah no these These are far more stringent right regulations than a than a I think going to do that are just going to do that probably yeah yes right yes right it's like the horses I think that's so funny yeah it is so many horses under ground here so I it goes back to the saying I'm not what I want to be I'm not what I will be but thankfully I'm not what I used to be like it so I just want to clarify here I I know we've been over this are you gonna beat a dead I'm G I don't want to beat a dead bury it let's beat it first lwh hanging fruit go ahead um under section one paragraph two green burials are allowed in Massachusetts however require the approval of the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection and the armouth Board of Health um with final approval I'm just kind of circling back to our conversation earlier under the approval requirements where we discuss the zone two so is this is this the concern is that D we think is viewing a property with a portion of the property in zone 2 as a Zone 2 property therefore may not approve the green bar I just I'm just trying say that again I think he's saying if they go to D and it's in a zone two D won't approve it or or well really what I'm concerned about is if there's a proposed green burial in in the case of our applicant although he had D approval already didn't he no no he was not issued D approval at the I I don't know I haven't heard from him since he said he was going to forward this on and I've heard nothing from it that's been that's been at least two months okay well that's my concern is are we are we by making the change in section five are we um effectively going against what the the D would ever approve this this is a local this is now a local ordinance well I understand but if if D approvals required for a burial to take place are we creating a regulation here that is in conflict is in conflict with d you said that I don't think D has done enough of these to put because I I remember the email correspondents I had where the the individual said DP does not issue approval for green burials we got a lot of conflicting a lot of conflicting results from d like they say they're not they're not they don't issue it or do anything but clearly in there it states it must be approved by DP and DP says oh we don't do that but it clearly it's such a new and it's in their regulation I'm sorry I've had I've had two conversations in my office on speaker with others in the room Mark gills because we're trying to get this my um Building Commissioner said it it does get reviewed by D it it is in a matter of fact the attorney I mean she had done two others I mean expert I don't she had handled this before it gets sent on to D somewhere does the board say first yes and then D or D and then the board I don't think it matters at that I honestly don't but the is part of the process of information and and I they want to call it approval I don't know that they have they are a checklist okay they're the first ones okay they can Mr MCC can or anybody else in the future that's where they start with DP they start with them and then they come to the board and then it moves forward from there so and then they get a burial permit so a person in the Public's I guess has to go to the health department find out no you're coming to the wrong Department you have to go to D first I mean the person doesn't no because he's going to you're say we're going to have a checklist we're going to have a I will a GU guidance right we do this I keep going back to that go because you're digging in the earth we have a whole 25 on on septic system we hand that out many times these are the things that you need I have to I haven't developed that yet but from this policy we'll give an informational guide and then an application it's just helpful for them to know if if they get turned down on number two they don't have to go through number 25 if this is expression de Dead Issue yeah yeah um so it's some point is that what could happen it never even reaches us sure that could happen number two no question it could happen so that's going to possibly automatically happen even though we deciding to applicant yeah I was going to ask that question since he hasn't been here is that did did he come up against Stonewall with the D and that's why he's not back here I'd be guessing um but to Mary Hill I talk about from him we have Larry we have not heard from him so mind and really L Communications with him prior to him going to D and then I haven't heard anything no do you think he well we don't know I'm not gonna make any assumptions and and quite frankly it's given the board time to now put a policy in place right right so I I I think we're close I know we we're still kind of wordsmithing this or kind of get trying to come up with all the different options and all the different things that the variables that can happen here but but I think we're we're closing in on something that that can be uh have a hearing on and and even then the clay it hasn't hardened on it we can we can still change it at the hearing again yeah absolutely what if we what if we wrote the policy and sent it to D and said and asked for their opinion on it instead of leaving it up to the poor applicants to find out that our saying within zone two and that excludes y yeah I it's certainly an option um and and I I I don't I think we putting a a lot of not credibility but a lot of things that they have a strong working knowledge of the screen burials and they don't understand they don't okay but you know let's give them a once this is in a for a finalized format to send it on to D sure just say do you have any comments on this it's the St because if they say right away oh wait a minute zone two no I'm sorry it's just like septic anything in a zone two any part of it is all in his Zone too then you know at least we've had our definitive answer the other set of eyes will be Town Council will will look at this as well yes but you know what Town Council hasn't had a lot of experience with this either no I I would I wouldn't I wouldn't imagine they would well let's hope they haven't I hope they'll know how to research it y yep yep should we change the name of this to Green Home burial it's right now it says green burial home burial yeah because we're not talking about Green burial in a cemetery right right this is just home burial Green Home burial Green Home burial good dere green home so it's going to be called Green Home burial regulation Green Home burial regulation I got it so not to throw a whole another monkey in oh right then don't then don't say it exactly what if somebody doesn't want to do a green barrial but just wants to do a regular burial then in their yard the regular casket and everything well this was I mean that's I guess a different issue because this is drafted around the idea of a right that's that's another problem for another time until somebody comes forth with that yeah I I for thr we're we're g to go back to the is it a cem is it a cemetery right and then the cemetery then you have to have that's how I started I started down this road and we're slowly trying to get to this point but that's what it become what what's the definition of a cemetery we ought to take care of this first yeah yeah and if if you recall that's what I was guiding Ross to say well you have to you know whether it's a charitable organization or religious organization you have to establish a a cemetery and all that and then kind of went to the direction of no this is just going to be an individual burial so Monique do you have anything I had comment on Section this is page two section five uh number three probably use some help from Eric on this we're talking about a hydr geological study and um I mean do we are we requiring a certified soil evaluator licensed in Massachusetts who you know it shouldn't be your neighbor who going to do this just as a favor so what would be the right term to say we accept report from what kind of it has to be a certified soil valat certified that's that's in D regulations okay and that should be in here then certified soil the terminology is I and also if it's the survey of the property we need to say we went through again I'm sorry about bring up the horses again it's question of you know they can't draw a survey of the property on the back of a napkin so what kind of survey are we requiring some language there would be helpful I don't know the right term and Hill are you in the same section five uh section five number three correct and you're saying I don't see it as far as the soil um the last the last additionally a soil evaluation evaluation a soil okay yeah yeah yeah okay I got it so someone doesn't have an unnecessary expense if it's not going to you know meet the requirement that's all and because yeah because actually I mean typically you have to have to have a survey that shows the wetlands you know if that's any any close to your property so and that has to be done by it um certified surveyor ready for another comment or yeah no um okay yep all right page one under section two it's under definitions uh the third one on is biodegradable casket um I put something about other biogradable items people put all kinds of things along with people when they've passed away and some of them may not be biodegradable um of what else can go there whether the person has something on them or whatever that you can't just put in the site just because you're doing nothing else some favorite item that's made out of some metal that's should be I don't know I'm just putting that out of what yeah jewelry yeah very good example of um what else people could put in there that their favorite whatever fetty bear um people often will put Flags in from the military all kinds of things that people put in you know in in Cascades coffins whatever um do we are there some things that we're not going to allow in the ground is there a way to put that um the wedding the wedding band is a good example should something be disallowed just say only bodies only bodies are allowed only bodies in their shrouds are allowed in the casket so we say no additional items other than yeah well it could be organic again getting back to well but you know what who do you want the health department witness to determine issue who's going to enforce that the health department is going to witness the burial I think the last item I put here a green burial must be witnessed by a staff of the health office so are you going to ask Barry to determine is that teddy bear organic and it will it break down or you know I mean I think if and frankly if people are going to have a green burial I don't think they're going to be into having Trinkets and chachis and Extras put in with them so we don't think we need to put anything on no I think you need to put what J just said okay okay no nothing other than the body and the Shroud are allowed in the casket so okay I don't need your wedding ring when if you're dead Okay okay then uh on Section Five page three um something perhaps a number six about the number of burials are allowed or number of we've got that is there there's a number well that's for immediate family members but what happens if you have 12 members of the family well it says that you have to get separate review and approval right okay we've already yeah said the so that if you have enough 10 by 12 each burial requires a separate review and approval so potentially you you could have a 40 people of the family then now the setback and all these things but they have to yeah but then now they have to meet all the requirement all yeah yeah I tried to capture that from what I think the the board had said yeah fine okay and what about the issue of public meetings about in other words um someone wants to come forward um neighbor the voter wants to come and speak up like they do for a rooster that's why we send out the S CER Butters right when they need to know with that they're going to know when to come to what meeting where they can you would handle the board they want the board would get would hear the application right okay that they'd be notified and be hand like any other application okay fine this would be handled over the counter at the health department come here you know this is com in front of you folks get H yeah yeah she's off today a good I got that other thing should we stop talking about this I don't have anything else um just a question about what to do with Mr MCC what what what do the board feel they want to do at this point reaching out some way if he's still involved in the process right he heard tell progressing on a policy but there there's still some unanswered questions just basically his Z Cho we let them know that we're still in the process of riding policy right right he still even invol you heard that be a great question asking but moving along I'll put you that's another issue um the uh person that is the reason for all this may not might have yeah yes he could have died already and because that was an issue he said he had cancer he very good condition but that was that could have change that would be sad we trying trying yeah he was pretty enthusiastic and involved say that and then that that stopped the last time we spoke to him here and I never spoke again to him was that he he was sending things on to DP somebody could certainly Google the man's name regardless I'd like to read to know that time Dad's name yeah I we do have it right um yeah I mean tell them the effort we're making that's all um yeah he said some things he definitely said some things in motion here the since he came here and I talking about this earlier every meeting you've had this on the you've had this on with new information you moved it forward sometimes it felt like probably two steps back but there's a lot to lot to research this is gring to uncharge Waters here so I keep going back and not the there are three states in the country didn't allow this so there's not a lot of research material here no only three states in the country the three states in the country that allow you call you Call there I have I don't recall it would be interesting to see some data from not to obviously not to disturb a site but if if you could perform some type of survey prior and you know pre and post to gather information as to whether or not there is a substantial concern for Soil and Water contamination over time you're welcome to do that well I wouldn't be the person to do it but what was your what was your question Eric well you know we're we're doing all of this again you know in the spirit of being environmentally conscious and it would be really interesting to know you know what I'm not sure exactly what metric they're using to whether they're looking at nutrient levels or bacteria levels but it would be really interesting to have it just doesn't seem like there's a lot of good data out there yeah you mean as far as what the consequence of of yes yeah I I just think in the general scheme of things it's minimal I I you think about all the animals that are you know all the all the cows and uh uh chicken and all the animals we eat all their uh everything that left over how is that eliminated you know when you put it in the general scheme of things I think this is just plus the wild animals that die and you know believe it or not this is a statistic that I saw the other day that 96% of any living animal either is our people or animals that support people and only 4% of living animals are in the wild wow that's a that's a a statistic I was floored by W to we I think you as a race where we could take credit for that well if you want call it credit there's only 4% that are wild 4% of all Wildlife are make up 4% of any living animal are Wildlife compared to 96% are either people 8 billion people and all the animals that support the people whether they be animals we eat or our companion animals or on and on boy that's remarkable that's a remarkable statistic yeah wow and when you look at all the extinct animals over the last 100 years it's just staggering and we we just don't even pay attention to it you know yeah wow okay looks like Jay and I still have some more homework to do on this but we'll be well when I wrote this I tried to capture um what the board had asked one thing is is um Infectious Disease Control and I just I what I wrote was just something kind of a catchphrase of should comply with any relevant infectious disease regulations keep it big that's all that's out there information is not really there is what we're learning I think it's minimal really you could put it but it gives a there's something that in fact I don't know the board then has some VAR variation or some latitude is making it uh I don't know if this Kemo I I don't know a number of different things but so I just kind of use that catch phrase of infectious I think that um I think that if if that issue came up there are definitely some experts that we could consult to find out you know for a specific are a lot more of a source of infectious disease than a corpse yes by a long shot just walk around in in a crowded place you know and pick up disease you love better chance of picking up something than you would from a green TB or whatever yeah I'll make a motion that we move to number five how's that okay plastic thank you and there's no discussion I'd just like to thank whoever put this all together that really did a great job thank you I appreciate great job I appreci it was built on it was built on your uh on your information um I there still some you know editing and word smithing that can happen I I don't even know anything at the next meeting meeting in January we meet again or you meet again um it may takeen it may take a little bit more editing but but it is moving forward and I I can guarantee you I'll be in touch with Ross um and make sure we connect with him but Larry I appreciate that and then the board thank you for that took a little bit of work okay so this is a PL stake reduction bylaw update um Jay that's probably you w you it is well I just wanted the board to be aware that you know uh that in October the uh the chamber Representatives came to you um and asked listen they laid out a plan that they'd like to um put a pause and kind of course correct get something that that their membership is that said listen this is going to be problematic um and what uh they then went to the select board and the select board because of again an issue that you've had with the uh with the cranberry bog uh there was going to be a special town meeting and they put that on there because what the board has also talked about is that um people voted for this they not taking this lightly they voted for this they said Can Can we pull back get this correct and what is achievable that what if you read that citizens petition it was all seven grades of plastic are not going to be allowed that would be difficult not for us to enforce to even educate individual the retailers on and but I do want to speak to just the chamber came we we we handed out when this passed we handed out that that legisl that uh bylaw and we heard nothing to this date I've never heard from a retailer but the chamber the chamber came to me at the end of July 29th and simply said Hey listen our membership we have a concern and they laid out what that would look like and there was a series of meetings that they wanted to have to educate and you were part of that educational process um and move forward it's a it's it's difficult because there's individuals on we haven't changed the focus we just want to make sure in my opinion something that is achievable that's good public policy is putting people together uh something that is achievable stakeholders we're not going to gain compliance or reduce Plastics by handing out $300 tickets that's not going to happen retailers are going to come together and they're the ones who are going to help now and and they have quite frankly to some degree already but uh an enforceable achievable that we can that we can communicate a policy that makes sense and I I just use the Expression I'd rather get it right then right on time and so it's been delayed at the town meeting if any of you were there or aware another another year I don't think it's going to take a year certainly to write the policy um we have some good policies from other you know kind of formats that I think designs that we can use and then there's going to be an educational curve to this and we're going to have to educate the community and retailers and Food Service establishments on how to comply and more than anything and I think Jamie and Amy talked about this to say if if there is not a suitable alternative you may be hearing about that now again in saying this I'm talking about this and I talked at the town meeting this hasn't been aign to the bo this isn't even a sign to here I'm just assuming that it's going to come here and and stepped up to say okay like we did with the bottle Bill like the bottle Bill the plastic water bottle that I think that's that's our responsibility we're in we're in these establishments all day long well that we should be educating because that's that's the pillar of public health education Community engagement participation that's how you gain compliance well you're doing the food safety um inspections which is certainly when that can and we're there yeah and we're there um but I thought that um Bob rittau said that I thought that he involved the health department when he said that talked about a committee and having having some people talking about it and working toward a he did I I sent him a draft of and I sent it actually to you right but I mean but he did when you said the it hadn't even been given to the health department or the Board of Health that that basically it has now right it it I think it has now it's because the chamber reached out to me on July 29th I then handed it to Bob and said Bob the chamber wants to meet with you right in that it was just a natural you know kind of I think it's I think it's our responsibility quite frankly we have to um and I'm assuming that when this gets written I think I would like the board a representative from the board myself to be on that committee to say how do we do this we're we're front row at the beach on this thing we should be involved in this and I and I believe we are now originally when this was if if you see how this is written this isn't the board health issue it when a citizen's petition nowhere does it say the board Health it was going to be assigned to a border committee by the town manager is what the bylaw stated exactly Y what you're saying it hasn't been done still but by de facto it I'm just going to step forward because if I step back and say well I don't know is that DBW is that DNR no someone has to take this someone committee yeah someone has to take this yeah it'll come to us and it should but you know we're under the you're under the division of inspectional services right and so in that the the enforcement of this is Def definitely involving inspection so you know kind of say from that standpoint you know I I really like you know enforcement is good it there is a component of that it was earlier today you know a penalty but education and engagement and participation is what gets you there that as opposed to hate you have a regulation somebody has to enforce it or you might as well not have it right and but compliance is done through educate not to be punitive the discipline of Public Health is not designed to be punitive as you all it's not yeah so at the last meeting it's now just so you're aware and there's going to be a lot of discussion about this um and I'm I'm assuming at some point a lot of retailers will be food service establishments will be here to talk about this the chamber they need to be an active partner in in how this moves forward um there'll be meetings here I would imagine in front of in front of you folks to say how can how can we how can we put a a policy together in place that um that is going to obviously protect the environment improve that way and also allow a viable alternative for uh for the Food Service establishments I was pretty impressed by the number of people who were there obviously to um discuss the plastic production bylaw and of course the the little understanding that I think most people had and what would be actually involved in trying to eliminate all plastic but the thing is too that they brought up the point that we had first I think objected to and that was why why are you now going back on a vote that we made for something to happen that's a legitimate question y absolutely this I think the part that we reacted to first you know that's just not something that's the deliberative body of this town the liberate body the town said we want this now I think that I think the difficulty is if you read that that would be very difficult to enforce and should it have been done a year ago to this day not one retailer said to me or to our office the inspector nothing thankfully the chamber had said that and that was back in July then they met with Bob we got a we got a a definition and interpretation from the Town Council they then came to this board they came to the uh the select board it did take time and as a matter of fact if you remember that meeting with Jamie and Mary they said we don't want to this perception that we're going to be here at the 11th Hour quite frankly it turned out to be the 11th hour and they were not at the town meeting or they didn't speak up if they were correct the second the latter yes they were there they were at the meeting they did not speak up Haley was the only one that spoke up yes young right uh Jay do you get the impression that I wasn't at the meetings but are they special interest group that sort of put a coalition together to get this thing through you think or is it just the general population that really there was some small groups there just there have been some small groups all along in town who have tried to put forth some Progressive ideas um but did they Supply alternative products and that's what Haley said you know that I get the feeling that they were because it's almost like they've up and vanished at this point in time and the young woman Haley's no longer employed with that no but she but she did right what would have been there's no big organization that that does it but there are there are smaller groups that come forth with you know like a sanctuary City petition and you know things like that but and we have a recycling committee right in the town they're I their name forward is being a representative a woman's name who would be on the potential I'll call it a task force or working group um they were in support of this to to push this back um but some of this also like I don't think anyone is in agreement I there was some comments of well let's this is a way to kick it down the road and do nothing no one wants to do that no one no this board would have been nice is if this board their participation and say listen we we think about writing something we'd like to hear from the board what do you think you you it wasn't that it was done through a citizen's petition but you know they probably are some people that would like to kick it down the road or just not have it happen but those people were not at town meeting or if they were they were outvoted you know and that's the whole thing when these kinds of things come up you have to be at town meeting and hopefully cast your informed vote the I can I can tell you directly that the Town Administrator the select board the chamber no one has mentioned well let's just you we kind of let this drift no one said let's get something that is achievable it's going to protect the environment put safeguards in place and also allow our hospitality industry to be able to function in an appropriate way and then some variances are very important because Jamie said that if there's not a suitable alternative but there is there's there's no there's no method to of to resolve that all of our regulations title you know article 10 Title 5 adequate sufficient there's words for flexibility this didn't have that at all all seven grades of plastic will be eliminated that's it so um I I I'm optimistic that we can put a you know a task force on myself um there'll be a representative from the board we'll put something together and then there's going to have to be an educational campaign absolutely yep and we'll it will educate the community on this and it it won't go into effect July 1 that's their busy season and I think it could have been done earlier but the the policy will clearly be ready before before J January 26 implementation has to be in the off season just just out of sheer accommodation for the business owners but they need to they can start be making accommodations they can be started getting ready they supplying things of that nature and they don't have to wait till January 1 they can move for move forward as this is done that participation their participation will be incredibly important that's a good faith effort chamber Mary said that some businesses had already start started and looking into it and put they mentioned that they mentioned that from day one and they want to comply they weren't just pushing it to the side you oh no no they want to comply they just need to know how how they're going to get there so I'm optimistic I think back that we just for some expertise back to the single use plastic bottles we had a professor here maybe she was some beu I I forget she was really very knowledgeable not for the plastic bottles no what was she here for she was here for the plastic it was okay it was the whole thing then maybe a source of some information or expertise not necessarily expect her to show up again um she came and and I think that group is kind of has somewhat disbanded that's what Haley said yeah that my impression is that that group no longer is is formed and's not even with them anymore source of information for us whether it's literature to read or what else is going on that may just save time for our task force um I don't call the professors I I can definitely get you you're right it was be it was difficult to get her did she zoom in no she came here in person yes she did oh she she came in person side of the table yes y it it was actually it was quite an informative presentation great excellent it really was and her terminology and you know just even to pull back and and look at this from 30,000 ft it was she said you know we're treating our Plastics as if they're biodegradable putting them in landfills and we weren't prepared we didn't have a strategy we didn't know how to handle them so going back now well it's got to be what third four two generations and we put Plastics into landfills and look what you know we sent them to third world countries is what we've done now lately maybe more recent drowning in um I'll reach out okay let's call this number six accept minutes from December 2nd 202 24 meeting Mary Mary I know you had one edited yes and I gave everybody um in front of you updated did anyone else have any edits or corrections to the minutes from December 2nd meeting I move that we approve the minutes of the Board of Health meeting on December 2nd 2024 as given to us this evening thank you second someone second okay done discussion none okay all in favor say I I okay Eric you got it thank you all right uh new and old business um just Jay it's the end of the year if there's some things that happen at the end of the year that may be relevant here it's it's busy at the end of the year right all our you know all all vast majority of our permits come do calendar year right so J December 31st so the board is aware all of the tobacco now we're down to 27 right we've put a ceiling on this 27 uh tobacco permits are now within Town within the town of Yarmouth and all of them have been applied for and all of them have been issued so that's good all of the housing 3,100 um housing rental applications have been put in the mail and we're also trying to move people to apply online okay the difficulty is that there there's a small charge if they apply online so sometimes they put an application online and then they come in and they walk in a check so there's a little bit of you know a little bit of Disconnect on that but we're certainly we're moving in the direction we're moving the needle on on applications online uh Food Services have gone out it's it's a busy time and now the busy time now they're all coming back right um but it's a it's we have a great staff that is working hard and they're meeting the moment and so um it's a it's um it's a time when we get a chance to interact with a lot of uh residents and business owners um where they would actually come in and talk to us on different things so that's helpful a lot of the phone rings a lot at this time of year have I applied can I do this online I'm having difficult with open mgov so we get a lot of communication one-on-one and we're able to have a positive customer service relations with them and that's really important right that they can reach out to us so that's important the other one uh the other thing you need to know is about 15 boxes of covid kits kits have gone out over the past week and a half two weeks wow they're still coming in we're down to one box left out of 15 so they're coming in 4,320 tests have been given out in the last two weeks so yeah so it's on people's mind well Co cases are up RSV is up uh flu's up whooping cough and that's says we're closing windows and staying indoors so they're all going up y um Jay usually I think it's around this time of year that the EU Health Department was requested to go to the board select with a or select board rather with um a report is that so that is done part of budget so I put a accomplishments for the year um so used to tell us that he had to repair be appear before the select board and right and he would I'm not sure Happ every year but I thought it was an annual so that's part of the budget process in writing an narrative okay yeah that's that's part of the budget process and we're in that process that's we're in the process of that now yeah came down to money usually the other one thing I did want to ask the board is re is when you have reorganized for some reason I thought that was October and then if I and if I miss that I apologize is there a time of year that you reorganize and take votes on that do you recall October sounds right yeah I mean for this board just each year you've reorganized you you reorganize and take vot long time ago it used to happen um and then we sort of let I mean each year I would say does anyone want to take this oh okay so what had to be form I hand I didn't step down and I'm happy to give this to anyone I don't think you have to be on the board to take it Larry now you know um nothing's changed okay so I didn't miss I didn't know annually on on at the October I know the right answer to that at the October meeting we reorganized or July meeting we reorganized if unless someone says something we we're good the way it is I just didn't know do we have to take a formal proc vote on that in any way I mean you know the select board does um It's tricky at times in the sense of who's getting nominated who does does not um because they do make the change I don't know about other boards or not but um we can just I don't think there's a regulation saying you have to do anything I know historically if you said oh October is when we're reappointed too in our ter that is that's that was the reappointment the reappointment date as long as it wasn't something I was supposed to put on to say oh no terrific either you know the select board wants you on or they don't for another term but as for what our position is that's that's within the board it's not up to or it hasn't been no okay perfect um answer your question well it was I just didn't know if I missed the date something in my mind I said does the board re because typically they'd reorganize annually a board would reorganize annually if if that's not the case I wasn't I wasn't sure but something something jumped out of October in my mind you brought up I know it's 7:15 does any want to change it we can't we can talk about the next meeting so keep it in mind and anyone Jay are you trying to send us a message not at all I just didn't know if I missed an administrative detail that I was supposed to be taking care of uh you get a different parking spot okay yeah this this um I can look back but you're right October is the reg and I think it I think you were just recently reappointed yeah and they'll let me know on that I just meant internally is there's nothing that we need to do that I needed to put on the account beautiful that's good nope I'm good um this is our last meeting for uh 24 so next year January 6 I think is the next meeting January thank you first first Monday in January holiday everybody yeah safe only request uh Mary let's leave you out of number number eight I mean you make your efforts on every single motion we made so we're going to you with you stole my thunder I was going to do one tonight you're out Mary you're out on this too quick though okay so one one last thing Mary and I sent her a note yeah but that one's lame um she has asked for a laptop Our IT director I did follow up on that it's in the process he came back to matter of fact he was here to the first time today he had come back I'm going to work on that to make sure you jary 6 is their next the meeting so that well before then we can have that by all means it didn't it didn't I wasn't forgotten um and I just actually if our next meeting isn't until January 2 six is six okay so there is going to be that conflict you need that yes that that's not a big ask we can make that happen great thank you yep um hello a motion anyone I move we adjourn thank you no discussion at all okay all in favor say I this meeting is adjourned thank you everyone