e e e e e e e e e e e e e e okay uh there's a quarum present and I will call the meeting to order of the community housing committee for March 11th 20124 and read this notice this meeting is being held in a hybrid model both in person in the hearing room of Yarmouth Town Hall 1146 through 28 and remotely via the virtual computer platform Zoom committee members May participate in person or through remote participation pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 an act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed in the law on June 16 2021 and extended through March 31 2025 the information to access this meeting via Zoom was published on the agend on the agenda with the Town Clerk and on the town's website with a Min a minimum of 48 hour notice to the public the public is welcome to attend in person or remotely this meeting is being recorded okay so now we will move to the first item of our agenda which I have in my hot little hand and the first item is minutes of January 20 January 8th 2024 and February 12th 2024 are they prepared so so you're GNA hear you might hear this a lot from me today anyways um there's there's I don't have the minutes done okay so have to postpone pending yep we'll postpone that uh bit of business the second bit of business is membership I do have an update okay so the board of selectman uh is meeting March 12th which is tomorrow at six o'clock and on their agenda is appointments community housing committee pal sangong McKenzie Perry and Greg Wheeler so Kenzie Perry and Greg Wheeler are here in person so those appointments are gonna happen tomorrow night welcome congratulations this is a pre welcome should we have a pre- welcoming ceremony no we'll we'll dispense with that old business we're on to olds business now and now we have Cape Cod Commission re Regional Housing strategy how would you like to introduce that topic so in your packet you have uh the official comments from this committee to um the cape Cloud commission regarding the Regional Housing strategy if you remember they came and made a presentation to us on February 12th and the comments were due that Friday um so we got them in on by the 16th y um and um out of curiosity I was gonna I was goingon to email Ain at the cape C commission to see if we could get everybody's comments so I'm gonna do that email her about what I'm sorry I missed I'd like to see what other towns and oh okay other towns gave for feedback yeah uh you know the planning board gave feedback Town town of Yarmouth staff and then this committee so I'd like to see um uh what other organizations in towns submitted see if we're kind of on the same track thank you any other discussion about that topic only that last when we had the meeting um they had suggested that the design guidelines were available on the web and I can't seem to find them so just might be me hey Mary is found them Mary has found them okay let me see if I can find them well the design guidelines for multi family housing okay that must be what they would yeah okay so it looks like you both right it's not on their housing strategy page yeah but it it is so you're right if you Google design guidelines for multif family housing it's a very nice nice place to start getting used to form face code very good so um so where did you find those so you just you just in your search bar you just put in Cape I put Cape Cod Commission design guidelines okay and what came up was design guidelines for multif family housing so I can email that link to you guys right now oh that's good that's uh wow that's that's un set up on a grid so what they did they what they had for a while was um um site design and uh like design architectural design guidelines and it was something like um you know honoring the past building for the future honoring the past and so it prescribed things like modulated fronts of buildings varied roof line um you know the materials you want to use down on the Cape Cod or like the shingle or the clapboard doesn't have to be wood could be that you know Plastic Lumber whatever you call it but that kind of stuff with with you know the Cape Cod windows with trim around it like and that really got us pretty far um but this looks to be um even better and it it's really talking to the Architects that are doing work down here um more so than the like the owner who has hired an architect so Does it include sustainable uh materials no I don't think so it's just what it looks like but we've used those you know the last version of the design site design and Architectural design guidelines from the cape God commission pretty effectively we have a design Review Committee most towns do they have site plan reviewd design review sometimes they split them into two um uh groups and design review usually meets first and reports to site plan review and um we've done very well um with developments redevelopments especially that are struggling to you know to settle on what it should look like because a lot of people come in and they say we want the town to like this tell us what do you want it to be and if you have these set design guidelines already and a design Review Committee you can bring them right there and they can get some some direction that way so okay I think that covers that right folks so now our next topic is the housing production plan our housing production plan yep no update no update on that how about the famous and massive housing Bond Bill coming down from the state of Massachusetts also known as the affordable homes act so last week um the staff from Senator Sia's office met with uh Mark Forest who's on our select board Kathy Williams who's our town planner and Bill Scott who is our assistant Town Administrator um and they discussed you know issues related to the affordable homes act and in your packet this is why I gave you in your packet Kathy Williams email right from January 18th um to [Music] um this was to the legislation because this the affordable homes act had it uh public hearing um and you'll have to forgive me I forget what committee it was in front of it might have been the housing committee not sure I have that letter from Kathy Williams for some reason in today's packet huh it was in today's packet yeah yeah did you take a pack from there yeah I did so anyways I put that in there because that was a major part of the discussion there it is I got it so I I stayed for like I think the first 15 minutes right and um there's been a lot of discussion um on the ACT with regard to that transfer uh this the S the sales tax on transfer of property over you know EX amount of money mhm it seems that depending what community you're in there's support or resistance to it and if there's support for it the trigger amount changes right so on the cape a million dollars might be the right amount that triggers a sales tax and this tax would then go to like an affordable bank or local affordable housing trust they haven't figured that out yet but in western Mass the thoughts are oh that level should be less right and on inet they could suffer it being a little bit more certainly so um because on inet a million dollar house is a working class house that the prices are just so outrageous there so anyway there's a little bit of discussion of that and whenever there's this kind of um type of tax there's always a lot of discussion about it because some people feel that it slows down the real estate economy um and then um so that was interesting and then um the other thing we talked about was the designation of seasonal communities with respect to adus um so they would just I had to leave and they were just getting on into that and that's when they started to go through Kathy uh that the planning board's comments that were submitted on the affordable homes at so um you know my job is to kind of update you and see if there was something in particular that was of concern to this group um that I should pass along um you know to Senator's office um for example um you know for ex for example you know do do we want to make sure that some of that money that they're they going to bond out you know $4.1 billion dollars do we want some of that to be linked to infrastructure that will event that that connects to affordable housing development right right that which reminded me of the fact that uh say there were a affordable housing project on Forest Road near the senior center well um Wastewater concern would be alleviated if the uh sewer was prioritized to go up Forest Road right so I I think that the phases of the sewer construction aren't necessarily locked in for all time right correct yeah so linking infrastructure with housing in the case of Yarmouth would mean the way the stew is build out is rolled out right possibly so that's that's all I got on that I'm no technical expert on this at all so I would have no idea of the actual practicalities of it us that's the subsidy that's right for other places I like I know that the housing Bond Bill kind of you know was designed to serve certain needs in offc communities but here on the cape it's really the infrastructure yeah that's our our biggest I feel our biggest hurdle we don't have a nut we don't have a way to crack that nut at this point right so I could pass that along um you know that I think that we're kind of all in agreement that and you let me know that the seasonal communities designation should apply to Yarmouth right can I um interrupt real quick what is the reasoning that it doesn't so um just back of the envelope right um we notice that like a c what defines a seasonal Community right well you know that you have 30% of your housing stock um is used only for part of the Year okay well if you technically look and drill down into what yarmouth's percentag is it's like 27.9% so it's like things like that like we need to make sure that their their designation their definition would make us eligible do motel rooms count as housing stuff no no but we always say oh about 30% of our housing stock is only used used seasonally so I think that's how the 30% got on the short list but we were like oh wait a minute it's 27.9% actually you know what I mean like we don't want to um so it's things like that it probably has you don't make the cut off point even though be an initial list we wouldn't have so we need to make sure that that we are designated that it must have it might it might also I I don't know what the other things that were on the list but you know is is your primary industry tourism right that would seem to be a seasonal a definition for a seasonal Community um this is all Innovative stuff you know what I mean I would hope there'd be a workaround on that right considering the number of motel rooms in the seasonality of the town okay I get what you're saying like it's it's it's almost like the number of motel rooms yeah G&P I well I I think I mention this every meeting because I'm still Blown Away by the fact that you told me that that uh y the town of Yarmouth has the second most motel rooms in the state behind the city of Boston that's still I did not know that that's when we were going through the motel crisis in 2007 2008 is that still the case now considering some of the been convered I think so but I can I can double check because we had 3,500 at that time on Route 28 some of them have be been decommissioned but when you have that many that you know could be used for you know a de facto homeless shelter with no services on the site you can see how that can destroy can destroy a community right um that was our argument and the judge bought it in sided with us said yeah that's too much so um okay um I was just thinking we I think we have less than 5% of the population of Boston the city of Boston right to show you right and we did have very we had friendly Zoning for motels very very friendly zoning and we were we were smack dab right where your tank of gas would kind of right if you you could get from Boston to here you your gas was done and you you were ready for a night's sleep so we we just ended up being that point where motor lodges were just really really really popular it's not just 28 who was a soua do have some on the on South right yeah that area um but they tended to be able to um update more than on Route 28 Route 28 became extremely competitive um whereas the Waterfront Motel were always able to you know do their Rehabilitation and up upkeep higher rates higher rates right higher OCC so in you can see what happened instead of the motels knocking them knock being knocked down and rebuilding they just started to to rent out you know an Extended Stay yeah and then they wouldn't be closed in the winter season they'd have people living there year round which was illegal which was legal but you could see how that made up for them for their low nightly rates in the summer and the poor quality from the polies still so my concern and I think the it's the very first thing that the planning board memo says you know put the brakes on until we get designated as a seasonal Community everybody knows what that is don't um go forward with saying that yarm has to do this this and that I I was reading the AG's uh memo and kind of like whoa you know so um I think uh that is like the most important thing we could possibly do is get together with the other towns and um have a a um and well maybe the county I don't know quite how it would workation yeah yeah you know barle County or Cape cot okay and um have a little more maybe say uh in the matter if we are I assumed was going to happen it was going to be our whole it was going to be our County B town by town is a stupid idea I'm sorry but really and that was Julian sh uh intention of coming here and talking about this no it was it was the town staff intention was to bring it up okay it um well I agree there should be a way to address this countywide I agree with that absolutely I like the way they address number two because having been you know this committee being involved in I know it came out of the planning committee um the planning board rather but the whole accessory apartment we invested a lot some of us went to that meeting some you know start those hearings some of us spoke at those hearings and then we they put together what was an agreeable plan although everybody in the town wasn't on board um and then you don't want to see that replaced by what the state thinks should happen so I like the way they addressed number two right so we should be allowed some flexibility to to design it at that at local level am I correct right and there's a Hu there there's right because there's you know neighborhood character right the other thing is we're concerned that um number five you know about the water quality and see that's how we started talking about well can some of the housing Bond bill money go towards our infrastructure because we're afraid that there'll be increase in density Statewide but well yeah addressing the housing crisis is in a obvious tension with the uh delicate water situation on Cape Cod and the delicate nature of this little sand pile in general yeah do you happen to know Mary um what the process is going forward I understand the bond bill is in front of the commit for Bond bills or whatever it's called um right the CBB okay no I I don't have the exact name of the committee but um any word on what they're going to be addressing first or who's on the seasonal committee Community seasonal communities committee um I for some reason an April date came up and I'm thinking April 11th but I'm not sure so what would happen next so now everybody's kind of talking about it um it's come out of the housing it's come out of the housing uh committee right and so it's it's it's been forwarded so now it goes to this the the house and the Senate now the house what I'm thinking the house is going to what they're thinking the house is going to do is send it to the bond committee yeah there's a bond committee right and I mean I can't imagine it doesn't go to the bond it has been referred to them um but then then what you know then right and then they're thinking it'll get voted on in the house first and then go to the Senate and they'll be tweaks in it um would you explain what the bond committee is because I I don't know I know that do you know what the bond no uh I I was just gonna quickly ask is this expected to be passed in this session Jun 30th yeah okay that's the that's the so it was introduced in October right it's oh yeah it was introduced in October as an emergency bill um in the bill right now um how specifically is it earmarked for what the uses of the money can be I think that that was in that summary I sent you there's there's a there's a lot of different okay ones off the top of my head there's like a there's a there's a buy down there's a pot of money for buy Downs for home ownership um there's I mean it's it's like four pages there's like four pages is a list still outside your office there's lots of information all over it might be yeah but um secret that's for sure no I don't think it's a secret but I just you know can't recall all of it could I could I ask a question on well you're looking something up so so don't know if this will print out I information six pages long so anyways so there's $1.6 billion for public housing Capital so so 100 so it's things like decarbonize the public housing stock accessibility accessibility upgrades they are so Mass development is the affordable housing trust fund so $800 million to capitalize the affordable housing trust fund at the state level and that gives money to some this town like Yarmouth Gardens and Yarmouth Commons got some money from that and once in a while we get money when we buy down an affordable home and we don't you know it's priced too high so we get a little bit of federal money state money and then local money's used to bring that price down mixed mixed income housing fund I mean there's lot of stuff in here the Commonwealth Builder facilities consolidation fund I mean goes on and on and on and on and then it starts talking about policy initiatives which is we get all of that earlier on yeah it's not my folder right here no I didn't I didn't print but I'm printing it out okay but this things like um Statewide housing plan instead of just the towns and the regions having housing plans the state would have one then accessory dwelling units as of right local option for transfer fee that's the tax I was talking I remember reading it it's pretty comprehensive I mean it's everything it's everything they've ever wanted and then when we saw the ads by right then we saw seasonal communities would be different any relation no no I don't think I have any relations actually no my dad one in his own the bill creates a seven-person seasonal Community coordinating Council oh gosh and asks the group and tasks the group with establishing a process to designate seasonal communities Council will make recommendations to hlc that's the new name for new programs to support seasonal communities or ways to adjust existing programs and does it say town by Town not county is that town by town I'm just reading a summary and that's that's what it has on this summary okay so that's kind of weird that it would say they have they're going to put together a committee to council yeah to decide what is seasonal housing and yet we've already been told we're not seasonal housing maybe I'll read another summary see if it says something different the other thing is when you look at the bill seasonal the state would create a seasonal communities committee with like four or five five people I was just reading that yeah and I'm like chosen CA you know sumary that said that yeah you pick Mary wagan you're in a good situation your ameth is doing pretty good but if you pick other people you never know so I'm sorry go back was that town by Town six person or no it's like I think it's five for the whole state so you'd have I think there somebody from the cape somebody from uh Western Mass because they have a they have a seasonality with their towns too I don't have it in front of me but um so one from the governor so was Statewide additional committee but it's not like I mean I'm sure our our legislative core would have INF you know would suggest somebody but it's not like it's one of our legislators it's not like it's a an elected official well probably wouldn't because because they're the ones that going to get to vote on this eventually so that would be a conflict I would think yeah could I ask some questions about this memo yeah I'll do my best to answer it um number three and number four um not allowing for an own occupancy requirement I don't quite understand what number three means and for number four I thought one of the use discussions in the Adu in the community were people people were concerned with um the units having more than one car so the housing Bond the affordable homes Bill the bond bill right has some things in it that would change chapter 4A the zoning act right so um I guess this happen happens Bond bills are in budget bills are used to pass legislation and other parts of Mass General law so the what this what the governor's office is proposing is to change in chapter 4A that a town cannot require um that the Adu property has the owner occupying oh okay what it was referring to it didn't even see this at the ad yeah that's been very important on the cape this oner occupancy requirement because then we know that this effectively this duplex is not owned by somebody off Cape yeah I get that okay I didn't know that rental right that's our fair that actually was a question when I went through this there there seemed to be some contradiction in one email where I think it was from the town planner where she says that the accessory dwelling units need to be owner occupied and then I saw something from uh the other email that said that it wouldn't be a requirement so it was kind so right now I believe in Yarmouth it has to have there has to be an owner occupancy right um the bond bill you know has some legislation in there has a paragraph in there with that it would take out that requirement it would ban that requirement Statewide like a town could not require that they also want to require that this property this Adu property you would only be able to require one parking spot for the whole property oh the whole property not just for the additional unit okay now I get that comment so it's not like you you so a town couldn't require at least one parking spot per unit so basically what they want us to do is start parking our cars on the street okay because because Kathy talks about you know the planning board and Kathy were like well we don't have transportation down here like other places do you can't walk two blocks and and get on a bus that R you know a bus line that you know is constantly running most of our streets are narrow yep and if you right so like we're having this conversation and I look out the back the number of car accidents on a daily basis are crazy what are you doing they have to plow right uh so plow and emergency vehicles are not going to be able to get through right okay now I get three and four yeah I didn't understand they were referring back to the Adu yeah okay I get it now thank you it's kind of um and maybe I'm going off track here but I don't know if folks know what's going on in Milton right now where yes yeah where they're they're kind of pushing back on what the state's trying to do I think all the other towns surrounding the city of to this but Milton voted it down and now the states believe suing them and going to take back some fun so um I think I've said I me I am all in favor of affordable housing it's a it's a passion for me but having specific towns especially down here having to go by the same laws that other towns that don't face the challenges we do doesn't seem it just doesn't sit right I think that guideline was related to being near the transportation system that's isue the am Trak in in I think it was mostly Amtrak was it and other I think there needs it's an M it's MBTA MBT than a half a mile I believe commun rails oh yeah but it's also the neighboring town so even and even if you don't have your commuter rail inside already established like Bourne right born does not have that communal rail station they are still being considered an mvta Community born this born well Milton they don't have their train station so I didn't think it was gonna apply to them and they do and and they're fine I think that for Bourne for buzzes Bay it fits that whole model you've been downtown buzzes Bay there's a little bit of in in there there's some new restaurants going in right right um it's a perfect place for top of the shop already has sidewalks it already has buildings with with zero got my attention yeah zero uh lot line like the buildings just they touch each other as they go down the street right yep somebody could come in and you know some some things are going to have to go because that the buildings aren't strong enough to hold upper floors but you could see it it it would fit right in maybe not five stories but something you know well the state is suing Milton I don't know suing but they're holding funds and I I think there's a lawsuit in the in the works it seems like Milton has their feet dug in yeah they are they dug in pretty well didn't they they passed it the bylaw passed and then people found out about it they organized got it back on the warrant and voted it out voted it out like it's more than just like you know it it's like they voted it out and they're organized and so there's right there's push back on the governor and of course it was governor Baker that passed the law it was the housing Choice bill from the last Administration but this Administration is enforcing it I I guess said I think that just needs to be it some something that different communities who are facing challenges that other communities aren't have a have a a back door uh that they can um Bend or make alterations to to whatever the state wants to do for for for everybody well I'm not sure I guess it depends on the layout of the area that they want to have developed it goes back to the seasonality thing in in in Yarmouth I mean right I think it was us the whole cap I assume the whole Cape would would be a seasonality uh Community seasonal Community but I just assume that I can't imagine right can't imagine there's one town on the cape that wouldn't what other towns are under 30% you know on the cape um sandwich could be yeah I think mashby is it but it's like just below you know more they're more commuter Community sandwich is a bedroom community yeah right but it's still it's still a significant amount and I think we always throw around the term 30% and I think that's how it got on the short list but you wouldn't want it to and as you go further out I think isn't Province toown like 60% no idea yeah percent as you go out it gets it gets more and more and more and more yes but still anything from the bridges on it's really got a big impact so if someone owns a home or east ham or Yarmouth and they don't live in it year round it's it's but they come down all summer or every weekend in the summer or it's their vacation second home that's not count does doesn't count as a seasonal home or does it yeah that does okay so it's not just cottages and airbnbs and things like that right it's all it's whole homes non-permanent residents right or not because I think you get taxed differently right for that so differently you you my son has a seasonal home inog down they gets locked up in the winter the pipes get drained and so forth right uh seems like it's going to be play it's going to be so cumbersome if they I mean the cape and the islands are different than other parts of the state and it would be seems like it would just be much better like Myra said to designate them all as one as seasonal communities and yeah I'll pull up um not what I want to that was like election results I don't want to do that that but the capot commission has a map and they have these circles and so they have it like by county and then they you know and it the circle is bigger for you know your the higher your percentage of seasonal housing the bigger the circle and when you look at all the different counties in the state Cape Cod has the larger Circle that's kind of obvious consistent like there's some spots you know in other parts of the state burkers I'm sure there aren't the Burk is but it's still um even higher than mon Ven and then talking I have in yeah I think so just because we have more housing stock but I'll dig it up the Cape Cod Commission and I'll I'll dig that up and um this is what I have that we we kind of feel the whole cap should just automatically have that seasonal communities um designation that the seasonal communities committee should have local representation on it local meaning what how do you define local for this purpose County a region should be somebody from this region what is a region I you know that's I does that mean barnable County one from the cape and one from the island separate right yeah because the situation is quite a bit different pardon if they're going to have five or six is that's unlikely but I would think the cape and the islands are as similar in their needs for seasonal and what if it was one of the County Commissioners do you know what I mean like that would be one way to do it or the Assembly of delegates chose somebody like it um the way they have it structured now that it looks like the governor makes the appointments and it's kind of like well um I'm thinking this sort of this is bringing up like a abstract idea in my mind that in this state it's like the idea of a region versus a town and how you how people want to be want to be how people want to operate is very very changeable like like in this town and I suppose it's for every town sometimes we really want to be just treated as this town other times we want to be part of a region which is you know depending on what we happen to want on a particular topic it's rather confusing to me almost like that's just something I thought of have all the towns um buy into a certain representative and then have meetings with this representative on a regular basis uh but each town would have its opportunity to present its particular issues and um needs to the rep representative but you wouldn't necessarily be a county group I don't know if that would work but um right you'd never get a consensus right you might you might get a consensus yeah well 15 towns I don't know maybe we all think we're seasonals that's that's the beginning right yeah I'm not I'm not predicting I'm just no I don't imagine that everybody will be you know in agreement all the time but you know as opposed to a a structured County group just 15 pounds kind of loosely organized right so like I'm thinking is like that seasonal Community issue whatever the you know whatever they change in chapter 40a the zoning act with respect to adus it what it is it's not an automatic it doesn't automatically go into effect in seasonal communities but that seasonal Community can adopt it through a town meeting vote do you know what I mean um like it's things like that um is there a way to um ask our state representative and state senator to get on board and try and push us to be included as a seasonal Community that's where we are yeah so what I I have a feeling that's going to happen is our little meeting group that met with Senator Sea's office um you know they're they're going to have more feedback for Senator Sia's office um and so you know I talked to the three people that were at that meeting and I'm like oh it's it's on our agenda what should we do and um their feedback to me was to you know to kind of get some thoughts and ideas give you guys a summary of what happened last week at that meeting and kind of what are the things that are important to this committee um and they're different they're different than the planning board but it's definitely the designation everybody the the link for the money for affordable housing infrastructure like I don't think all out of this $4.1 billion dollar there's nothing in here it actually says that 4.1 billion that 4.1 billion dollars affordable for uh the housing Bond bill but there's nothing in there about you know the communities that are lacking infrastructure there's nothing in there for that like there's some things in here that we'll never use we will never use okay so there should be something that in here that guaranteed we're going to use well that's one of that's been the ongoing case when the state has addressed education of issues that cap card would get overlooked and their individual needs wouldn't be wouldn't even be be concluded until we had some stronger people representing us right state level are we going to get a summary of that discussion or not at this time I I could work on it a little bit more um okay you weren't there for the whole thing you got it what I have you have yeah but sised what you know everything you know so far yeah um well we should continue well if I had my way we'd be having more meetings with them um they understand that there were more people that were interested in going to this meeting I don't know if you guys caught that but right there was six people that you know I had scheduled to go and they were like oh it's too many people some of us got bumped we're trying to remain mature about it I I was one of but I did I did I did crash for the first 15 minutes because I set up the zoom and I had to leave so I figured I'd just stay H you know and if if they don't feel that you know they want to share that yet that's fine but maybe there's something well this is maybe I'll ask Senator se's office to provide a summary that's a good idea I want to tell some information I got here from mass.gov on this Bond bill um it was referred on March 6th just a few days ago it was referred to the committee on bonding Capital expenditures and state assets well no wonder I didn't remember the whole name and um it's supposed to be reported out uh in by April 12 from that committee okay I was off by a day a day it says yeah okay I'm sorry I'm trying to I'm trying to do stuff real time with you guys yep so do you on that do you see the the number of the bill um H 4138 yeah all right so it's referred to the committee on bonding Capital expenditures okay and the deadline is April 12th so so that must have been it went to the house yeah okay so now the house is driving the driving the bus okay keeps saying Senate concurred it's like the Senate is along for the ride I'm not that familiar with their procedures but the Senate will have to weigh in after the house is done huh doesn't the Senate vote last that's what that that's obviously what's happening votes first Senate takes it up after that it's always like that I see I didn't even know that yeah but that's exactly how this is set up yeah okay so now I know so if you have any other thoughts about this you know I'm just thinking as far as looking at this from a county standpoint or a region standpoint for the cape in the islands is there anything more than um we all want to bind together to get seasonal status because once you get past that each town is going to be requesting money for different projects on their own so I'm just wondering is there anything else that that is included on that sort of countywide or Regional uh docket that other than seasonal status that oh other words would there be anything else we'd all have a infrastructure anything like that I mean is because at the end of the day we're all each town is going to be requesting money on their own the only other thing I've heard about is is the the Wastewater infrastructure money yep every town is in its own situation and yeah I mean that ship is kind of sailed to some degree right I mean the agreement the agreements that Yarmouth had with some of the other towns has kind of Fallen by the wayside Now isn't it oh yeah for something like that but but I'm I'm I I I interpreted what you were saying was for us to start to network with other towns no I'm saying is there anything that we're networking with other towns other than the seasonal nature of of the communities yeah I mean Transportation infrastructure or anything like that I think it's more an identity thing right now you know just make sure that there's a voice and that you know I don't think other than that I don't see any right so the the biggest thing that in the housing world has been the Regional Housing Services office that the county is investigating so if we had that office established that's definitely who we would be talking to to you know hold together some type of regional the money that the home Consortium got the big money the home home and then something that may be funded out of this bill potentially no well they got they got money from um one of the special funds that came out during result of Co I think and they got um a lot of money from HUD the area funds yeah I mean the um I believe for the um in the home consorti is the one that was putting that together guess he had some hearings or something which I didn't hear anything about um and they're putting together Regional Housing what was it called D and Kathy Regional Housing Housing Services office they put the service in there I mean I'm work in progress I understand I don't think it's a done deal yet is it no but there's a sizeable hard yeah that's going to be hard because they're going to be looking at so subscriptions from each town to fund this regional office right and so you know McKenzie works for the town of Province Town right so it's like proone already pays for their housing a lot yeah right but we have a director I'm the deputy director and we're uh advertising for a part-time housing assistant so so we're well staffed so right and then Yarmouth right so what's in it for Yarmouth if we pay into a regional one it's why would you have to pay if there's all kinds of funding so wouldn't you just have to have Representatives eventually the the price tag would be you know they want they want have all they want all the time initially be funded but then as you go years down the road and this money is Right gone yeah from from what I understand the arpa funding only covered the consultant fees to do like a one-year pilot program which runs until June of next year so they're looking for commitments from by the end of this this summer by the end of summer 2024 to decide if they'll participate continually going forward um and I think it's kind of a package deal the the idea is that they'll present what services they can offer in towns can opt in for certain services and opt out for others and that'll adjust how much their contribution will be but really like it clearly varies by what town needs didn't they I mean they got a lot of money yeah I'm not I'm not sure the exact amount but um I know they're working with the Barrett Planning Group yes right now to do the whole consultant piece of it good that's that's the same group that's doing born right there it's involved in a lot of planning I guess I have to look into that because this is perplexing to me so it's it's they're using the funding to coordinate this and then town are going to have to buy in to be part of it and part of the pilot program raspberry but yeah yeah part of part of the program is they'll offer um like they'll have deliverables just kind of as part of this pilot so they'll I want to say they're Gathering a whole bunch of data from all the towns and they'll put together um like a comprehensive Regional assessment of what towns have what in place what their housing stock looks like and they have some recommendations I think that they've been working on with the cap C commission some of that sounds redundant with what the with cap C commission just did yeah I think it is yeah I think it is that'll be available to anyone no charge yeah or maybe the piggybacking with some of their findings so I'll look into so on the front sheet of the fact sheet it's the second to last point is $175 million for Housing Works infrastructure program funds Municipal infrastructure projects to encourage denser Housing Development what you looking at so you know I think that the the one thing that I mean we didn't know this big Bond bill was com nobody brought it to the cape and said well what kind of housing money do you need I'm hearing chatter that it's really you know for our our Wastewater infrastructure we're not going to be able to bring more a lot of significant number of housing new housing units online if we have all this water quality issues we're just not going to there's not going to be any public tolerance for that so I wonder if there's room this Housing Works infrastructure program just to allow for that kind of money I mean it goes to Mass General law section 23b 27 and a half and so I'll have to read this to see what this is all about because maybe they already have an established program maybe if they allow what we're doing what we're doing here on the cape as an eligible use for that money that's an easy fix I don't know because you know like Yarmouth has complete has a complete total plan for rolling out the sewer right and is there you know how could this plug into that and change it I have I don't have the faintest idea that might in the industrial areas and it's not branching out after that for me I mean I'll be dead and Go On by the time to get to my neighbor yeah well that's about us and our yeah me too don't worry about all right so any thoughts send my way I'll get it I'll get it a summary from Senator's office about that meeting um and kind of send your feedback up to our meeting group and hopefully next time the meeting can be a little bit bigger because they're going to be looking for our help too do you know what I mean they want to know that towns and boards are are on board with this so are we ready to move on and the next item is affordable housing standards no update no update okay I'm going to move right along then oh you're it's going to go real quick from this point on well what about the zoning bylaw new calculation of cash and L of payment no update okay it doesn't look like that's going on this spring oh no it' be October yeah the other thing that's going on October is the seasonal housing Sunset um I think is October too oh I thought that one was for spring oh that is for spring you're right what seasonal housing Sunset is what what the sunset is the town's opinion that for for you to have airbnbs in your town you have to have it in your zoning bylaw okay and that that's right it the sunset is right around the time in the that fall town meeting happens okay but they're putting it on the May because fall town meaning might get bumped because of the presidential election I see because we have early voting now it's it's voting is like weeks long now so by bumped you mean postponed a bit Yeah and see the town clerk doesn't like to have major events like town meeting when there's early voting do you know what I mean that just I hadn't thought about it before but I stay focused yeah okay yes sir yes ma'am okay now we're on F Soldier on veteran housing Model Town of Brighton field no no update that field trip could still happen but we're not sure we're not sure it's GNA work out right this minute Joint Base Cape Cod big housing plan update got an update for that okay so I went to the February 28th meeting of um it's the Joint Base Cape Cod military civilian Community Council it's called MC3 so I went it was very interesting um they've got instead of this this MC3 this you know it's it's a Citizens Council for uh Joint Base Cape Cod it used to be they used to have like no interest and they didn't even have Quorum yeah they were having trouble now it's like you go in there and it's like you know everybody that's on the council it's like all these people you'd know um including Mark Forest Andrew gotle uh you know people that like I know from Mash P General Fox is on there um who's that nice guy the the execu the Town Administrator from Sandwich bud bud is on there right is like all these people and they're doing like lots of good things so anyways 2014 there were lots of land on Joint Base Cape Cod that were declared Surplus right and it I think it was through the military Bond Bill and it was under the devile Patrick Administration and the the the land that was owned by the state if it was Surplus land here it is mass development got the right of first refusal so basically Mass development got gets to decide what goes on with these parcels and there's like a decam school there and that's the site they're really thinking that by this fall they're going to be able to issue an RFP for housing on the base um so that was really like shows if if you didn't go to that meeting that was hard to pick up um there was an article in the cape cot times um I emailed it to you and there's copies over there on the table but I it wasn't really even in the Cape Cod Times article this this thing and mass so that means Mass development is in a very powerful position and strong position to um you know meet this objective that's been set by the State but anyways um I was in the room almost everybody else in the room was from born because this land is in Bourn and they did ask for uh more meetings and things to kind of slow down a little bit because they have to because the land is inborn they have to either approve this new zoning or this special permit or this comprehensive permit however it goes forward to be permitted has to go through the regulatory Boards of born so they were there the town planner was there the assistant Town planner um there were people from the select board there so it was it was pretty interesting um maybe this handout doesn't cover it but the it might be in the newspaper article where they talked about this piece this particular site is very isolated so when you go into from what I can understand when you go into the Bas and you know how there's the cemeter the national been ages but yeah it's it's in there and it's around it's it's like kind of in the back it's where an old school was okay it's before the big Gates as as far as I understand so it does feel a little I in isolated from Transportation I think is one of the issues yes you would have to I mean the you know I drive that area of the cape all the time that area of the cape you know you can move around that it's the Otis rotary you you can move around you can get in and out there um it's not like other places which just are all traffic jams but um it is it is isolated but they were talking about you know this always supposed to have like a military purpose so maybe it should be military housing people would work they would they would live right where they work um and that would relieve some of our housing pressures in the surrounding towns because those people wouldn't have to go into our our communities and look for housing I'm curious as to how many military personnel would be would could would take advantage or something like that I don't have any idea it says in here right now and and their priority if if they do this comes together they want other minority uh military families to be thousands of people I did see number surpris is in the first first paragraph yeah I see it now yep I do see it interesting definitely they they're definitely in Mash P so I live in Mash B so you know especially like um like on Election Day like if I'm if I'm volunteering at the polls there's people that come in in uniform yeah you they just don't come down this far they don't live this far it's a little bit too far of I see it now almost 2,000 residents so in the top you see in my handwriting in red pen I give you the the U website you can go and sign up for updates so um so they're not necessarily talking about affordable housing per se are they I don't know we're gonna find out more doesn't sound that way I mean it it sounds like first I thought it was going to be all affordable housing from what the the chatter I heard first and then and then um you know there were people there from Mass development and they just did not get into it and Barrett planning is helping them um and people were asking so many questions of the planners from Barrett planning that mass development had to get back up answer the questions um even if it's not all affordable housing a certain percentage still needs to be I believe you would you well you would think you would think you would think that if Bourne has to approve this you know if I mean if Bourne doesn't if Bourne says no we're not going to do no Zoning for this area then it's a chapter 40b and then it's 25% affordable so I think that's a good idea I think that's fine um any additional afford housing is a good idea yeah so that's so that was interesting the other bit that was interesting was the federal land around the airport is um is Surplus and see that touches Route 130 in nation I don't think the airport is going away um yeah oh that's why it that's why it'd be no connecting road to this housing through Mash because it's that's all federal land so Mass development have to build some infrastructure it's yeah Mass development doesn't have access to that so it's G to be interesting so that's um there was a lot of people there um you know saying that you know it should be part of a master plan this is such a huge potential um and such a big impact on born that it should be part of a master plan yeah housing for Veterans ex I know it would be nice that would be nice too because it would be a certain amount of support there Support Services I would hope but know years ago you used to be able to cut through the base as a shortcut I don't think you can do that anymore nope sometimes your GPS forgets that and you meet the nice guard that tells you you have to turn around well oh let you get that newspaper okay shall We Carry On y new business Adu zoning bylaw Amendment y so it's in your packet the zoning bylaw changes for respect to adus in Yarmouth got approved right some cautionary language in here um the AG's office is you know kind of saying remember you know we've put in for some of these Provisions to be prohibited in the affordable homes act but um we didn't see anything in here that would invalidate the vote that you all took at town meeting these opinions and decisions always seem to like look for the most um I don't want to say obscure but they they will find every possible problem that you could ever have and they'll put it in the document so it's not you know not anything that was concern yeah they it still gets in that that letter and you read it you say well did they approve it or not so um it then now this goes to and it might have already gone to our town clerk for advertisement and then it's effective yeah um I'm just reading the part where they bring up the fact that uh we require home the homeowner to be to for it to be owner occupied yeah and they say it's okay but they're just warning us that it might not be okay in the near future that's a fact but as of now it is okay that's exactly what it says yeah we allow no more than two bedrooms so they're saying be careful about that can't discriminate against families well okay probably I didn't see that one before probably um you know um there's a good there's a significant number of families that grew up in Yarmouth with only two bedrooms you know so I mean it's the same as a two bedroom apartment and right so it's kind of silly but um yeah I thought that was interesting that they picked that up now in chapter 40 BS you have to have 10% of the units at least three bedrooms I think that's where that because if you have a male and a female child over a certain age they have to have separate bedrooms I don't know what the if you do affordable housing you correct but if it's your own private property correct you know um we used to sleep three in the bed I know four in the bed sometimes we we've talked about this before that there aren't that many uh homes in Yarmouth that are large enough that you would be able to carve out three bedrooms and 12200 Square F feet or something prob won't happen at all yeah so I think it it limits it to 900 square feet right two bedrooms are 900 square feet right right it wasn't gonna it wasn't going to fit our other right rules and regulations but anyway so um I share the office with Dolores Fallon who does the she's the staff support for the zoning board of appeals and so people have been coming in asking when this is going to be um official official so she has a wait list of 11 interested parties so that's good be offici and right so it had this goes up to Mary mazowski Our Town Clerk and then it it might have already been been in the newspaper has to be in the newspaper for x amount of days I probably two weeks imminent public aware right anytime you change your zoning bylaw it has to go it has to be advertised ahead of time then if town meeting votes a certain what votes to change the zoning bylaw you then have to send it to the Attorney General's office and if they approve of it then your town clerk has to advertise it in the newspaper they just say you know everybody you're being publicly notified that our zoning bylaw has changed it's now your responsibility to learn about the changes so I'm reading that zoning bylaw amendments are deemed to have taken effect from the date they were approved by town meeting right and obviously you know they have to be approved so now they are and but it can go you right after town meeting a builder can go get a permit and the Building Commissioner will base it on the town meeting vote it's just at their own risk yeah that's the thing right yeah so most people don't they wait for it to go through the whole public process um and then we had approved the committee had approved a two-bedroom Adu on above a garage and Al Alis remember that remember and so he came in says hi and so he was he didn't know that this it all happened so he was gonna take the must be living under a rock he needs housing so he's Al so I just wanted I it was nice to see him we updated him and uh I said that I would update you that was the last affordable one that was approved by this committee so you can or cannot build up above a garage you shouldn't you can he is going to build up above a garage yes you can build them build adus and detached units he if he didn't have a garage he could build it as a separate building um his problem me was the septic system no don't remember the number of bedrooms you know H deal in all of this he has figured out with the Board of Health I didn't ask any questions he's got it figured out very cool okay let's keep going huh yeah vermouth Port Route 6A cluster subdivision okay there there's something being built right now newspaper yeah yep so that got that's approved it's um it's 14 uh detached homes as far as I know um it's the Davenport company companies who got who secured the special permit from the planning board it's a cluster subdivision um and they're going to rent out the units so I have a question why do they have a homeowners association and documents if therefore they might someday convert okay is that why they are in the plans they originally four bedroomroom but the upstairs isn't going to be finished yeah I don't know it's I mean it's my it's yeah they're leaving the door open for the future that was what I thought but it was just kind of bedom interesting so were they just market rate rents none of them are affordable so they were required to uh by inclusion and res zoning they were required to provide two affordable units and they opted to buy out buy the lower rate yeah so the affordable housing trust voted to accept the payment of $310,000 that's the story there and I know a lot of the a lot of people are interested because they they read about the article in the newspaper so anybody's interested I would contact the Davenport uh companies and express your interest in the units so 14 units if they went to a full up would only be two really they were required to provide two affordable units is it 14 houses with two two bedroom units or is it no I don't think it's seven houses with two single family yep it's ni I mean I think that a lot of people got used to that lot being wooded you know so this trees going down people here APAP C think of where that is 68 cluster I mean live 68 right by Pizzeria um Evan yeah Evans right by Evans so moved a lot of dirt around oh good but there it had you know there's some I think isn't there um electrical wires in the back is then there an easement I think there's easement back there and then they had to provide um a lot of open space so the cluster subdivision did save trees you know I saw one of in I think it's in harwi and it was coule years ago it's really it looks great on it says this tree and the affordable housing trust didn't want to you know I think it's the same way for on that unit you have an entrance off the street and then you the houses are in the set in the back it looked nice it was well done right right cluster subdivisions usually have like this kind of nice entrance way and then all the houses are kind of clustered in around that I got call us that kind situation yeah right now we're on a whole new section here reports and actions okay housing production working group so uh last week the housing uh working groups met we were upstairs we talked about Joint Base Cape Cod the master plan um Tom um attended and she wants to come with me to the community and economic development committee to talk about gr Fields when is that I have no idea interested that okay um I just broke a rule never volunteer all right I just you just did now you toast cedc right um trying to think oh yeah we introduced each other that's right that's right because it was like McKenzie's first time meeting with us we spent a lot of time talking about all our histories and all that kind of stuff then we went into gry fields and then we to right and then we spent a lot of time on gry fields and whether we should recommend a Redevelopment Authority yeah um you know and and we talked about some blighted uh former Motel sites that are obviously not going to go back to motels because they're so decrepit and I think that was it why why why do they just stay that way for an indefinite period right which is really the worst part of the whole thing like right no hope you know right feeling and I don't really know the answer but you do maybe cedc does yeah okay we talked about a little bit how some places were underwater right because of 2000 the mortgage crisis of 2008 but that now things are starting to move right so and then and now right and then how if they move too quickly they they'll be done before the sewering is done oh yeah that that's a glitch isn't it that's a little hitch in the so close soell at the top of the market right and I personally think we're pretty close to it but for now anyway it'll come back is the surage going down there then just route 28 it's it's in it's in West Yarmouth I think it covers all of West Yarmouth and I'm not sure if it gets to the town hall or not they call them instead of phases they're calling them contracts contract one contract two so you're talking about what would happen with those flighted motels if they were in the new s you behind yeah no I yeah I haven't I haven't worked on any of that planning um but you but you wouldn't want to invest in a huge new development that has an on-site wastewater treatment facility if sewering is just going to go right by your door in five five years so now we're we're like oh you know we're some places are going to be stalled not our affordable housing our affordable housing decided to go through with their on-site wastewater treatment facilities even though sein is was going to come in within 20 years they decided that that they could they could finance that okay and then we also did um our Outreach and education and pal and McKenzie uh volunteered to help with uh the videos we have um couple of topics the ready renter program um I have down here affordable housing 101 um with Lorraine and pal kind of like a basic kind of introductory video um um McKenzie's talked about networking with Youth and Young Adult Services in Yarmouth like kind of connecting our Housing Services and our housing programs with things that are already out there um and then we also talked about doing something that you know the faces of affordable housing trying to get uh consumers to give testimonials about uh their affordable units in Yarmouth okay see we're now we're getting to the point where I get a little bit lower energy here okay I don't know if other people feel that way but if there's anything important let's focus on it um the chair's report may be no report no report I do not have a oh go I'm sorry the home Consortium I have no report I have no report from the Housing Authority that yeah go ahead like to add something about the housing authority and it it kind of goes to part of uh the conversation we had in the uh meeting last week about um how projects can be stopped stalled uhuh um and I'm I'm sure folks here are aware of what happened at Twin Brooks and in barnable right where the neighbors put up so much of a stink that the owner decided they were not going to sell uh for for housing and now they're selling it it's still a great they're selling it to the river you School uh for other purposes but it's no longer housing right the article um so yeah noisy nimes uh can you can can alter so which everybody here already knows okay very good the well well taken Point um so now we are on the affordable Housing Trust no report we meet next week planning board no report Community preservation committee um we're preparing for our um warrants to go to town meeting on when is it in May yeah and we have the affordable I'll be presenting the the trust fund request for 200,000 I'll be there now the Department of Community Development report okay so we can take a breath and go we have we skipped anything important do you think folks or Mary no okay I got some mixed up dates here though the next just realized I kept my phone on mute since yesterday morning so people reach so I have down that right right so the 15th is a holiday 15th of April so our next meeting yep so I've got our next meeting is April 8th April 8th okay at 3 pm which should mean our next working group meetings could be on April 5th Friday April 5th okay I see you put March down by mistake um Friday April 5th at 3 P.M two and three anymore we yeah this week I didn't no I know but about on April 5th on April 5th weekend 2 pm and three do that and I and I always forget which one you guys like to go have go first it's all of it you know and and H have those two things sort of gotten mixed together in practice like we don't have a I mean they are separate things in reality I well this month it did yeah but in the actual way we meet to we keep that separation we're supposed to yeah we're supposed to I just didn't think this month that we had enough to talk about right so I didn't want to start one at two and then at three and have a lot of dead space and so we just did them both at the same time but um probably wise to go back to two o'clock for theth of April so let's do Outreach at two okay then housing production at three right Okie toie well that brings us to the end of our meeting here today ladies and gentlemen and uh would anyone care to move to adjourn the meeting for the working group yeah so moved second all right all in favor I by right meeting is aurn meeting is thank you so we um I just have a follow-up question that