pardon he said not that there's anyone watching I said always assume there's someone watching 10th of June right do I have the right date yes yeah 10th yes okay here we are at the community housing committee meeting for June 10th 2024 uh I'm going to read the uh in-person and remote participation rules and then get started this is the four L advised that is required by Massachusetts General Law chapter 38 section 18 to2 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 an act relative to ex extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed into law on June 16 2021 as extended by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 the community housing committee will hold a public meeting at the time in place stated here in this notice which is right now the public is welcome to attend either in person or via the alternative Public Access provided below and there is a link that was on here okay so let's see if we have a quorum I know we have inperson and uh remote members of the committee so let's start with Myra sanich present here P are you here yes very good Greg Wheeler here John bar here Drew Krauss here Hamilton here Josh Trot here okay we're all present and pal I got pal oh no I didn't hear her P could you repeat your presence she's on mute she did say she was here I didn't hear her I can see her but she's on mute CH she says she's driving okay okay thank you she's in the car we know you're participating pal okay now according to the agenda the first order of business is a presentation of the proposed Housing Development on 228e 28 in West Yarmouth and we have gentlemen here to present uh on that please go ahead folks thank you yep you can sit down and introduce yourselves and just start rolling absolutely so my name is Scott parella I'm with conerve group uh and I'm sorry go ahead uh EMS are run um A+ real estate LLC okay thank you um so I wanted to thank the committee for having us here today sure U we represent Imad as the owner he's the owner of A+ real estate um and we are proposing a mixed use project at 228 Route 28 West Yarmouth it is currently a vacant lot right as we can see here um I'm going to jump very far forward to the timeline that we're working on just um give you an idea of where we are in terms of pro Milestones so uh formerly we had site plan review uh the middle of March uh 18 that was um uh moving forward was approved unanimously uh May 9th we uh completed submitt for application number 20 24-1 through the uh the road process May 14th we Comm uh presented to the um community and economic development committee and uh shortly thereafter received a letter of support from that group as well uh design review was completed and approved unanimous unanimously last week on the 6th and we're preparing for um public hearing on the 26th so us being here today is a timely opportunity and we thank you again yep you're good at that so again currently this is a vacant lot the the proposed project is um new construction mixed juice building with with retail on the first floor uh and residential on the second floor the the ground floor is just under 10,000 square feet it will be owner occupied and the uh the second floor of the residential is 13 units in total proposed between 600 to 900 square ft 10r uh single bedroom the and three are uh two bedroom and this is really I'm familiar with the area having I won't say GR lived here growing up but spent a lot of time here as a youngster through Del Hood it's a short Rock from the mil Creek Park and uh little bit longer Club mil Creek Park yes yeah that's exactly what I remember it as and also um the the West Yarmouth Library yep I know where it is yep so this this slide shows the elevation from the west and then the South if you're on 28 look look at it yeah so let me see do I have the pointer on this um so the the the right side of the screen would be facing Route 28 the the left side would be uh West and again this is the the South elevation um and then um I'm sorry on the east or the right side would be the East Elevation closest to where jino's restaurant is right so the intent is to have uh a construction that's traditional in appearance but is modern in terms of its construction uh We've Incorporated varied uh facade lines wall Heights and roof lines traditional looking and varied building materials for depth um it's an energy efficient design according to all codes and modern materials that are long lasting as well as low maintenance but traditional in appearance so architectural roofing and shingles uh um brick veneer and Way's cotting fiber cement shingles fiber cement lap siding smooth PVC trim all in the gray tones and white tones as you can see on this next slide and this next slide just gives an overview of the site layout um where it's situated on the currently in in correlation to the the vacant lot uh it sits forward to the street almost where there was a previous building it occupies most of that footprint plus and the design allows for traffic flow around the entire property for fire trucks for uh infrequent but regular routine delivery vehicles that will go to a loading dock in the rear of the building building um not not within view from the road this next slide shows the floor plan for the the retail level that's just under 10,000 uh Square ft and owner occupied the future home of Express Restaurant Supplies which is currently located in hyenas um on near is the airport road um so the business it's a wholesale and Retail predominantly Services wholesale clients particularly like yearound restaurants that in the case of if you think of like a food service provider like a CIS go um you typically have a drop requirement in terms of the amount a Restaurante here has to procure uh one of the benefits that uh Express Restaurant Supply brings to the table is the ability to have much shorter orders uh in quick turnaround times so that's especially helpful for the the year round businesses on the cape um in the area as well as available to the public um it's open currently open 7 days a week and it is a year- round operation is this currently next to um Cappies correct okay yeah I I've been in there um they sell individuals too yeah oh off the street you can walk in and corre correct so um in terms of commercial benefits it will be uh an owner occupied business um this will create employment opportunities not only shortterm for the construction phase itself but also longer term for the the the employees and I believe head count is roughly at about half a dozen to a dozen uh full-time equivalents um and that additional um influx of of workers will be good for other local businesses in the area this next slide shows the floor plan for the residential second floor um it's about 9700 gross square feet again there are three two-bedroom units at about 900 ft and 10 one-bedroom units between 600 to 700 Square ft so this next slide will show just generally I a zoom in on that floor plan to show what some of the one the single bedroom units look like and they're fully equipped with bathroom CL uh kitchen uh living dining area uh bedroom with closet uh closet when you come into your entryway so it's it's pretty functional space second uh next Slide the the second uh the two-bedroom units um there are three of those at roughly 900 ft each and these provide a little bit larger living area the and the addition of of of a bedroom and in addition on this level we have amenities including common laundry area and also 13 storage units which are available and very useful in in the context of people that um may have a smaller living uh quarters but the the ability to have that extra storage provides seasonal rotation of of items that they they use um mountain bikes Etc so for the uh the community so it's understood that the the additional housing would be valuable much needed we're estimating up to 32 persons uh capacity of the within the 13 units um two of these units qualify as affordable housing and again it's the location is conveniently located near businesses uh that can provide employment for residents these new residents short and it's a short walking distance to some of the the local um Municipal uh services such as the park and the library so generally speaking the the thought is that the town will benefit um by having an undeveloped lot developed that's not just retail but also the addition of of residential units it's it's again yearround occupied by the owner um and it doing a mixed use project ideally is more optimal versus not only a vacant lot but also if it were just a straightforward one level retail uh which it's zone four um and as far as the economics to the town this these next charts just show a comparison in terms of tax revenue um estimated with a mixed use project versus the vacant land or even comparison of a mixed use to a single use so the tax based revenues uh considerably different yes sir see no I'm just looking at those figures yeah I see I see and this next slide just um includes the assumptions that those figures are based upon so in closing again the Milestones we're here today uh to present this hopefully you have um positive view of it and with that look forward to answer any questions that you may have thank you very much I have to present at this time good thank you thanks I just have one question um are the parking spots um uh demarcated for business versus the the residents the I mean there are two two entrances that the residents can use to get upstairs are are those parking spaces closest to that going to be designated for the resident uh designated is a good question I actually can't give you a solid answer on that I do know know the intent was where they're laid out um for there to be enough parking for the residents per code and then um enough for the anticipated amount of retail traffic that there would be in the the the thought process the way the site is laid out the west side or the left side looking from the street that's where the retail entrance would be and that's where the parking for that is assumed and then the rest is is is uh ret um residential but as far as if it's specifically named as such uh I I believe the answer is not yet or not currently okay and there's you're not you're not sharing parking like this is a this is a residential spot during the night but in the daytime it can be used for um commercial use um so sometimes people can't make the count right they they don't I think there's 32 on the lot right now on the lot right now it's you're meeting the packing request requirements of both uses separately that is my understanding okay you know what I'm saying yes sometimes when there's not enough parking there's a few that are shared yes and the residents know they can't use them from 9 to 5 and the commercial get it but that's not happening in this case well I'm not clear are the designated parking spaces for the residents if they if they were to designate parking this is residential only and this is commercial only that still have enough parking spots for both uses yeah it's just the the proximity of the parking on the North and the east side of the site is much uh closer to the entrances to the residential units it's like it's naturally laid out so that the residential will be in one section I mean I would think that parking spaces on the east side would probably not be used by your business clients because they're walking all the way around the building to get in correct yeah and um my question first of all I think 600 to 700 600 square feets pretty small but um you said deliveries will be in the back and is there a time restraint and when those deliveries will be because I know sometimes they come in empty trash in my street at 536 in the morning which is really illegal so so as far as deliveries the the food service industry at the standard delivery times are typically between 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. okay um as far as and this will be the sole business on the first floor is that correct correct and the dumpster the dumpster is situated on the the nor far northeast side of the lot um it's at the far corner of the lot it's a it's a reasonable distance from the building itself so as far as pickup and delivery you trash pickup that I was more concerned in when there would be deliveries to the for the resturant supplies and so forth yeah typically again the companies that make these deliveries they're they're they're working on a they're looking to keep their labor costs manageable and don't typically schedule deliveries outside of 8 to 5 40 hour work weeks yeah there looks like there's four units that are kind of looking over the delivery area okay um um what are your what are your what are your expected operation operating hours um ours will be um uh uh 7 to 5 and is this your business yes ma'am okay that's s days a week it is seven yep days a week are you going to hire a property management company or are you going to A+ realy is a plus real estate will take care of uh maintenance so for example if you you know if one of your residents keeps parking over on the other wrong side I mean would you would you encourage them to park on you know not take your customer parking that kind of stuff yeah it's been my experience people have a tendency to park wherever they like well yeah but the I mean the the the two entrances to the building are are closer to the North and East parking spaces so and and they're less convenient to the main entrance of of the uh business I know I mean from a business standpoint they're less convenient for you so um the one question I have for the committee to consider um because of our inclusionary zoning um you know two of these units are required to be affordable there's two different types of units I see that yes two bedrooms and one bedrooms it's really up to you to make a recommendation whether you want two affordable one bedrooms or one of each type um you know me I like the smaller units because we don't because whenever we have these Lite developments like Yarmouth Commons and Yarmouth Gardens yes the highest number of units are the two bedrooms no we can't you don't have any these federally funded affordable housing developments in town they never give us Studios and we never get a plethora of one bedroom what's the breakdown again one bedroom to two bedroom uh 10 are single bedroom and three are uh two two bedroom oh I'm three I'm sorry yep 10 one bedroom and three two bedrooms so so Mary there's there's only two options it's either two one-bedrooms or a one bedroom or a two-bedroom not two bedroom two bedrooms is not an option the if the state were to to choose right if the state were to choose and these a local action units so they depend on the recommendation of this committee as the community Housing Partnership committee the state would would would choose they would want one one-bedroom and one two-bedroom right but based on your local need for local action units that's how they get on the in um the subsidized housing inventory towards our 10% count it h that recommendation comes from this committee so you can say no recommendation or you can okay so you're something for you to think about informing me that you feel like uh having two one bedroom units set aside as affordable might be a good thing you just don't have a plethora of one-bedroom units but and our our and I know this is a lot of information but our Cape Cod Ready renter weight list which the town of Yarmouth manages for the whole region um out of the wonderful support from our affordable housing trust the vast majority of people on that weight list need a one bedroom okay so there's smaller households um we do have PE we do have households on that weight list that need two and three bedroom but the vast majority um is they need one bedrooms and we we're just not seeing a lot of one-bedrooms the other this is a mixed use project and so that there aren't the amenities provided in some of the other housing developments that are in the in town amenities for kids or anything like that so playground that's right yeah there's no uh space outdoor space for uh folks that live here in this particular case the two the two one bedrooms would make more sense to me I think yeah that's a good point there too right because when we when we have the federally funded ones we always have local money we always make them put in a playground are are the are the one-bedrooms um large enough square footage wise for more than one occupant oh yeah yeah you could have two could be a couple you could have a couple in there yeah it was a between 6 and 700 Square ft is a little vague so the code for affordable says at 700 is the minimum mhm so that's that's contemplated in the design very good that's right yeah well minimum yeah so so do you have two 700 you have one bedrooms that are 700 sare ft yeah correct at least two so that might be your recommendation there that sounds good to me now should we I think we're probably meeting the guidelines of what has to be affordable in this but I still think out of 13 units to only two of affordables unfortunate I wish it was more yeah I don't blame you but these are the guidelines that we're going by and and and two is better than zero right how big are the are the storage units uh let me see I think I might I was trying to figure that as you had it up there there were 8 ft across I think but I didn't get the other measurement that's a nice amenity to have for people well the small units that's yeah I I love the internal storage St it's huge as someone who's rented a lot of Apartments it's one of the most important things that people ask for that you you don't want bikes or stuff in the in hallways how did you come up with that idea well if you're going to have residential units you need to have like Windows right and so in terms of the square footage we're working with you in order to do that you have to either have longer wider in order to not have the center of the building um it would just be dead space if it weren't Dead Space basically so it was either have dead space or or make it functional and um so that that was basically the the goal here was to build design it to be as efficient as POS possible to be constructed in a quality fashion in other words the addition for example of the facade changes the roof line changes that adds cost to the building and we've actually done a lot of redesign to make it conform to the standards um from where we started so the ultimate design of the the footprint from its get-go is to be efficient in terms of the use of the space in the context of the cost to build um and then then but just to speak to your your point about the affordable aspect of the housing um the rental income it's all going to be uh priced to market for in other words the town of Yarmouth units that are one and two bedroom of the similar size are going to be a different price point per per square fo per unit as compared to maybe someplace like in in Ptown or or or another Mash PE area for example so in the context of it'll be priced to the market is the intent even if it's not considered quote unquote affordable and the town of Yarmouth the town of Yarmouth is an a a more affordable area to begin with on the cape okay so in other words the market rate might be lower than than it might be in some other towns that that's what I mean just looking at the rental data that's available that that is what it is okay so to be competitive need to you need to you need to be competitive if given the size of the UN as well okay so I'll I'll just go over the affordable rates right now um for the state the maximum affordable rent for one bedroom is 1 $ 1,956 including all utilities for the two bedroom it's $2,201 a month including all utilities that's affordable that but that's including all utilities so if you have all your utilities metered separately we can discuss you know that you you can have the property owner pay for all the utilities right and then that rent that's paid by the tenant goes down by a utility allowance usually about $200 so if you get a really high energy system with heat pumps and stuff like that and everything's metered separately sometimes it's to the owner's advantage to um have the tenant pay for the utilities um so that so if if you opt for the town to help you with the lottery right what would ask is for you to to bring that rent down about another 10% just because when you calculate the exact maximum rent and then advertise the exact maximum rent you're looking for a household that's making exactly 80% of area mediate income you have to have a little window so that you have some choices um and um I there have been lotteries that have been run that way with a very tight mathematic margin and no household qualified and you can't change the rent once you've started the lottery and it's a 60-day period that you have to have so anyways uh we'll talk about that a little bit more um it is higher than our federal fair market rate rents um I think in our regulations it says that the affordable rents would have to meet the can be no more than federal fair market rate rents um so in this case it's $1,553 for the one-bedroom and $2,444 for the two-bedroom um so we'll have to talk about that a little bit including utilities including utilities but if you did the if you're talking about the one-bedroom units that knocks about $400 a month off um so that's in our standards um so so you thought about if you would include utilities if not or not because if you're not included in utilities you have to have everything separately Meed understood right so we're again we're in the the design phase with the as far as specking out infrastructure for electric plumbing hbac that's somewhat to be determined yeah do we want to see if anybody yeah uh Josh Myra pal any comments just go ahead and speak up if you wish and if you don't you may stay muted okay going once I just really Drew I just really really hope that we uh go with the two one bedroom okay apartment very good and the the project sounds very exciting and I wish him luck nice to have thanks I think this a great project for y and um I agree on the two uh one bedroom units as well okay are you with us pal we like you she might be in the car or something yeah might not be working out okay so that I we may be forming a consensus on that two one bedroom recommendation I'm just looking at our standards just want to double check that rent thing that I I said okay so rents and leases votable rents shall be shall include all utilities except telephone internet cable and shall be no more than the current federal fair market rate rents so those are the Section 8 rents so that means that the the one bedrooms uh the maximum rent you would have to provide is 1,500 um something something but there would be no um 10% window that I was talking about before um y then no rent will uh should be allowed by the state's lip program and that's that 30% of 80% that was a little bit higher um and rents the affordable rents shall be at least 10% lower than the market rate rents which I think you're going to be fine with that your website has two documents posted uh that relate to to what you're discussing there and we've read through them okay but but but it'll be helpful to have the opportunity for follow on conversations just to make sure that we have our figures correct yes and it's it gets it gets reset every year do know what I mean so let's say this project you know takes a year to construct right and the federal uh fair market rate rents have changed then they then they go up so your recommendation um might be that the affordable units are no more than the federal fair market rate yes that's that would be my preference and then whatever time you're ready to rent those out we look those up they're set by the federal government and again they include all utilities and that will get you that will be great because we have a lot of people that actually have vouchers right now and cannot find a unit um I know I know and housing authorities down on the cape are great to work with they're great to work so do we need to take a vote on the uh two one-bedroom units or we sort of in consensus I'd take a vote well if we take a vote then it's official correct okay so uh that means that one of you has to compose a motion that we can vote on and the motion would be to recommend that we approve the the two affordable units we recommend that both affordable units are one bedroom units with the minimum square footage of 700 which is part of our standards yeah minimum square footage of 700 yet to be determined with the finishing of the project I would say uh with the rent being the uh no more than the federal fair market rate rents you should be taking notes here because I want you to I want you to make the motion yeah uh I make a motion that we um proceed with um the two affordable units being one-bedroom units and the rent based on the federal standards uh to be no more than the federal fair market rate rents be no more than federal fair market rent the two affordable unit 700 Square ft yeah I second that motion okay would you also add to that in general that the the committee is in support of the project yeah oh okay yeah I think so I second that motion okay so now we'll have a vote on that I'll start with the zoom folks Myra hi Josh hi hi P were you able to follow our debate hi thank you Greg I vote I I want to say I think this is a great project good luck so thank you very much John hi uh Drew votes I good work I vote I okay by unanimous vote that motion has carried and we uh are officially expressing our support for this project good job thank you very much for your support thank you very much that's great so I'll type up that in in a a memo to the planning board and uh get it to you in the planning board in plenty of time for the June 26th meeting wonderful um if I'm around I will come 26 26 yeah okay if I'm around uh and they put that item on first I'll stay the meeting okay and everybody else is invited to and the pl board is meeting on a special night because juneth is their normal meeting so they bump to the next the next thank you so much for coming thanks for coming in very much thank you sir good job a wonderful presentation I that just helped so much thank you our pleasure enjoy your afternoon want me to take take this or leave it oh you can leave it because the affordable housing trust is meeting tomorrow so I'll just recycle it I some notes on it no you can take it whatever you want whatever you want you have to leave your notes leave those notes no I don't need those goodbye thank you okay so the next item is 35 minutes congratulations is that fast yeah 811 Route 28 it says 881 here but that's uh we really mean 811 right 811 yeah thank you um units are very efficient they're not there's no wasted space and and um I like the storage units too this is the kind of thing that I was always wanted to see happening business on the bottom apartments on the top I mean it's only for adults really yeah it really is only for adults yeah this particular one because there's no outside space that's right and because they are going to it's operate the the the uh sorry the commercial uh property on the first floor and the residential on the second floor M you how they're saying it's owner occupied I mean I think that lends to Better Property Management so we'll see if my theory is right on that but um yeah well it's logical you remember the place that used to be at The Rotary they had restaurant Surplus things I think it's them it's them really a different name what no I think I it was a place that the r in the parck and La pass St I don't think it's the same people oh it's different they're they're currently operating in in the space on across from the airport next to Kappy's liquor store okay it you hardly notice it when you drive by but if you I've been in there once and okay seems like a fairly quiet business too so so 811 Route 28 811 Route 28 I don't have a PowerPoint presentation the owner was going to try to zoom in um um I don't have anything to put up there but anyways you have it in your packet yeah um and P Josh and Myra I hope you you have access to these plans I was able to download some of these two hiys maps so um they are in the process of going through the permitting just like um the other property uh they're not as far as along but they do have uh just like this past project proponent they do have a professional engineering and legal team for this so this would take um a property that is um you know like a gray field that's Disturbed and underutilized at 811 Route 28 um and uh build a brand new building which from what I think is eight one-bedroom units and they John correct me they're you know they're what kind they call tow houses yeah it'd be a townhouse similar to a townhouse development um you know it's a tight site um and so you'll see that it it they had to get an easement with the people next door for the parking you know um what they're going to do is is people that are next door to them and if you're looking at the plans it's the it's the lot to the left mhm they have two curb Cuts right now um on the right of them is the isn't that the captain glad Cliff yes it is right so the H so the house to the left they've they've decided to share one entrance way on Route 28 which is great news so we're going to go from two kind of undefined curb cuts to one defined curb cut there's a little bit of an easement for their parking onto the next um lot over to the left but in this way they do get their in lot trees their parking um the dumpster in the back and up front towards Route 28 a turnaround for our emergency response vehicles um it's 15 ft of easement yes that's what it says all the way down just so that they have enough turning space for their um that's 15 ft wide all the way down in exchange you know they have one per cut that's nice and landscaped and stuff like that so is this what what is the criteria on this project for affordable units one yeah one mhm it's the same it is very nice architecture you can see in the the four units are kind of broken up broken up by a common area yeah I think it happened to Affordable units used to be 25% that's under chapter 40b okay so exclusionary uh it's an alternative it's a local alternate to chapter 40b so when we started when I started we had some very aggressive chapter 40b proposals um in town so we decided to to have local zoning that would allow um Redevelopment um into uh projects that have Superior architecture and site design um in exchange for some density with an affordable housing component but we if we ask for 25% um affordable units with all the other requirements such as the site design standards and the architectural standards people would just go chapter 40b and and we would have less local control um so that's why um you know we we opted for local zoning um some of that was used for the motel Redevelopment the conversion of the Yarmouth the captain glad Cliff to year round housing applebe court to year round housing um um so do all of these units for both of these projects get included in the lip even though there's you see I have big big problem with that so then there there I'm sorry I didn't hear what you what you said I said for the other project with 13 units and this project with eight units all those units get included in the State uh local you know lip the housing how do you pronounce the what's listed as affordable housing for the town even though there's only out of the two projects going to be three actual affordable housing units MH so we kind of there there also um you know I have to check I think I think there's two affordable units for this when do accessibility requirements enter into the picture so the Building Commissioner was at site plan review and um that that would be set I think it's 10 but I don't want to misspeak say that again 10 what I think it's 10 units 10 units or more 10 units for this not the parking I think parking they have to provide accessible units here I don't know I'm talking well both these both of these are the other one was all the units are on the second floor and there's no elevator right in the building so none of them would be accessible none of them are accessible and none of these are accessible because they're twostory units and there are no bedrooms on the ground floor right I I didn't I just don't know I haven't been here long enough to know you know at what point does does that kick in well these are good questions these are very good question because I don't know either yeah I we could have asked it to the other folks too because none of them would be accessible we did at site plan review and so the project proponent isn't here um and I know that um what happened was last Wednesday I bumped into the project proponent because I went to the planning board I said oh I put this on the agenda for Monday so she was going to try to be here they I knew that the their engineer from BC could not be here today so you don't have to take a vote on it um um but let's ask him that question um didn't we discuss this earlier on yes and raise this issue earlier on remember we said something we talked about the possibility of having one unit be be um to you know on the ground floor that we would accept a one a one uh story unit yes you know what I mean that didn't get reflected in any of these plans well we haven't you know we haven't seen them since okay um okay two two of these units have to be affordable so I think we asked them for one of them if if they if they wanted to we were fine without it being a one-bedroom just just a onef floor unit that would be accessible near the middle part of the building yes we did say that near the main entrance but I haven't heard back yeah okay so do you want me to inquire about that did you just say there'd be two units here affordable two two affordable un guys uh have you need to clarify a little bit what you're saying it's I think I understand but I'm not totally sure they this is a project that's going to have eight apartments right yeah and according to our normal standard two of those would be designated as affordable is that what you're saying I'm trying to confirm that right now Sor you're not sure yet okay good and we looked at some of this earlier on we talked about having at least one of the affordable be accessible mhm It Be by the main entrance and be okay both both de places you know both units on the ground floor it's good you're remembering that cuz so I wouldn't have remember one these unit a studio correct right it wouldn't necessarily have to be a studio it could be the second story could have the the bedroom and the living room upstairs and whatever in downstairs there's one unit that's all on one floor so I think that's how we talked about it but reflected this design think it was before you time it's it's so a lot of things were before my time it's you're so funny it's such a tight spot you know I don't know what else it would how else you would be able to accommodate that so we we sent it back to them to think about um but it seems to me if we're going to be we have the other project that we basically have approved to go to the town planning uh and then this project and we're not you know with not having anything that's being accessible and what are the size of these units I don't see that any I don't know from a code standpoint or it would be a code standpoint um at what point you you what number of units you have to have accessibility to the building and I don't know that there is any code standard but if we're having mostly one bedroom units those can be elderly people as well MH or people you don't have to be elderly to be nether one you know to need a handicap accessible unit what the size of these units Mary we can figure out SI by [Music] 16 16 ft wide right are they 32 ft long and then the upstairs is uh looks like it's about 20 ft of bedroom well a little bit more than that maybe 20 4 feet upstairs 22 feet upstairs by so what is that translate to square feet because I can't do that can't multiply no 32 * 16 wow it's 320 320 * 6 that's how I do it in my head 12 18 that's a lot of square feet yeah that's 512 plus the upstairs they don't have dimensions on the I would guess that the upstairs is probably 204t or so by 16 so they're good size I mean they're good size unit yeah they're like they're more like 900 square ft than 700 Square ft right when you say so you're looking up uh I should have brought my you're trying to look I with me I'm sorry right yeah see pretty good yeah so these are roomy compared to sum I think it's almost like the best design you're going to get out of that S I think so out of out of that site I would agree I mean I I think it would be it would be difficult to reedesign these so that you had an accessible unit and that that would then induce having a exterior stairway going up and some things like that but so on accessibility I think there's what I'm hearing is two types of uh question one question is uh came from John which is a good one because I don't know the answer which is what are the rules and regulations about what needs to be accessible and the second one which was more uh between you and Lee was that we had earlier requested that they make one of these accessible in this particular development is that correctly did I get that straight I that we requested we comment I commented on that with them I I needed that clarified I get it yeah we didn't request it so I so one one unit has to be affordable um so I can follow up with them not too cuz you it's um per bylaw section 41223 yeah the mandatory provision of affordable housing uh in inclusion every zoning is zero from 1 to four units one if you have if you're creating five to nine units okay so they and only by law right um so they have to they have to provide one and we've made a comment that uh we'd like to see that amenable so F so your affordable units are supposed to be just like all your other units right right but we would be amenable to that affordable unit being a one floor unit if it was truly accessible oh I I remember now that this is CL this is clear now that would like we don't we're not seeing accessible units we're not going to get it out of the 228 right cuz they on the second floor it's not going to happen and that's allowed in our zoning a second floor property is is loud in fact I'm glad to see it happening myself so but here this opport these are all on the ground level so was there a way for them to convert one of those uh one-bedroom twostory units near the handicapped parking near the laundry could they convert one of those and make it a on story right small unit affordable like we would consider that so I can follow up it's probably too late in the design for that to happen but let's follow up with them okay would it would it be possible I I don't think anybody here's an engineer but um you could have it could still be accessible if you had some kind of a elevator in the unit that could if someone was I don't know and I've seen them they're they're a little uh they take up space and break down a lot but yeah there're to be truly accessible it would have to be uh basically a 5x 7 and 1/2t elevator that you can turn around can access with a Str with a gurnie or or with a wheelchair otherwise you're talking about a lift that you see at some retail establishments um it's possible but it's probably expensive we would probably have to start an ele an affordable elevator fund well you could take one one of those units and turn the whole thing onto the first floor and then the second floor have another unit and you don't have to really reduce the size of them well you'd have to have an exterior stairway um to the unit upstairs which would and that would be well the problem there is you'd only have one means of egress from the upper unit so have one stairway and there was no good point no way to solve happen to this I don't think it's I don't think it can happen on this project okay but but going forward we want to we want to have these people think about the need for accessible units this just a very good point Lee yeah which I wouldn't have thought of unless you brought it up yeah well because I'm looking at this thing we had this discussion way back yes and maybe it's not going to work for this but right we need to when people start talking about projects we want to say we want to see an affordable assessment in an assess you know I can't even think of my words anymore you know what I'm saying accessible accessible unit and so maybe I can work with John a little bit where would that fit in our affordable housing standards okay right so I just use the right words okay right and I'll and I'll uh talk to the Building Commissioner he's Mark grills is the person that you know tells the developer when they've triggered something for um accessible units um so I'll find out what we're using I'm sure it's sometime something in the building code right um and then um we'll go from there and maybe get it into our affordable standards the standards have been reviewed okay by staff but I haven't sent them to the select board so there's still time to make a make a because this is eight units the other one is 13 units so there's 21 units that are going to be going forward with no accessible within any of them so well in in both of these projects are Second Story units basically I mean you have to in this project you have to go to the bedroom upstairs yes so um you know that immediately kind of counts out some elderly people that can't live in a two story unit anymore and um anybody in the wheelchair anybody is really yeah yeah that goes back to the comment we made about it right which was could you do a one a one floor apart Department that was accessible as part of this right but then you raised the question about then the second floor would have to St well you'd only have one one means of egress out of the second story unit so like I don't right I don't know what would happen with that second story space yeah I just don't I don't know what they would do with that that's right storage I it's something to think about going forward in terms of of um yes you know at what point do we require uh does the developer required to be provide some accessible units because that's going to be more and more in need you're right yeah especially for people like me me too some of the rest of I'm on the first floor have trouble going down the stairs to empty the litter box let's move on to our next item committee business we're in a whole new world here we're not going to do minutes we're going to postpone the minutes I think home Consortium rep has been a I believe one of our members Josh Trot has been appointed home Consortium rep is that true Josh I'm the uh associate and I believe we had another member who was appointed as the full member that would be me that was Greg that was Greg yeah okay and that's all signed sealed and delivered not yet but I plan on getting sworn in either later today or tomorrow very cool yeah I'll be sworn in sometime this week and I will uh be attending the June 20th meeting good congratulations that's great thank you guys any other that's all that we need to do about that right confirm that situation that sounds good okay this seems big to me reorganization of committee offices chair Vice chair and clerk well at the moment I and so uh remind why this is the correct time to reorganize because I think I know why it is so um usually we try to reorganize in um uh after your standing appointments are kind of up used to be October now it's kind of January but since uh Lorraine resigned and she was the chair and I I honestly can't think back when exactly she became chair I'm sure it's been over a year yes so I I think it's it's a good time to open up nominations for chair Vice chair and Clark all right so uh so since Lorraine re resigned I had been the vice chair so now I'm the chair due to her resignation but I I am the representative to this committee from the Yarmouth Housing Authority so I was thinking maybe the chair going forward could be just a full-time regular ordinary member of the committee rather than me the representative of the Yarmouth Housing Authority well some of us are representatives of other committees anyway a lot of up but he he comes on as an alternate come on as an alternate right see can I make a motion yes can I nominate someone yes if he's uh willing I would nominate John for chair okay I would second that if John was willing okay so we have a nomination teach me parliamentary procedure it's easy this is a good committee to learn that always defer to uh um so do you accept yeah I will okay and then ask for any other nominations for chair yeah I got that I had that figured out are there any other nominations for chair pause that's part of it hearing none if it's parliamentary acceptable I would like to proceed to a vote on this nomination is that okay by roll call by roll call all right we're now going to vote on uh the nomination of John bar as the new chairman of the community housing committee and I will call the role Myra hi Josh I pal I Greg hi John I drew I Lee I okay so it's by unanimous vote John has been elected the new chairman do I get a parking space for now I know they're going to take office potit notes but you got to wait till inauguration day to take office right inauguration day yeah when is that uh early January okay and then um open up nominations for vice chairman Clark all right and it's still drew that will continue on with this meeting if that's okay with you John yeah well could Drew be Vice chair yes that worked out well well I would nominate Drew as Vice chair okay second that Greg seconds here now a vote for vice chair uh a vote on the nomination for me Drew krauss's Vice chair Myra hi pal hi Josh hi Greg hi John hi I vote i lee lee votes I okay so I've been elected V through cruss Vice chair now da da da clerk I believe that's an do we have a clerk at this point yeah the clerk I thought uh I had accepted the role of clerk several months ago but I was never really told what it meant so that is a very well said J yeah when when when I can't do the minutes you're responsible for the minutes what do you think about do joshh did you take in that remark by Mary I I'm not the most fastidious snowt taker in the world but I am up to the challenge if need be good that that might be very helpful for I nominate Josh second anyone I second John seconds John bar seconds here's the vote for Josh as to continue as clerk um continue put in quotes Myra I Josh I Palm I Greg I John I I vote I Lee I okay so Josh has been elected Clerk and these are this is all for one year at a time right do I have that straight yes okay so it's going to be one year from today approximately is our goal or do we want to modify that is there any advantage to any of things like that that I don't know of that you could explain Mary I think a year term is is great yep and then um if people aren't comfortable with the positions they can always bring that back up um so we can set uh July 10 of next year as our next uh election let us say for does that seem reasonable to folks whatever the date is yeah the nearest till July June 10th yeah I'll put on the calendar for 2025 bring that back up as a an agenda item okay old business Soldier on veteran housing model tour of Brighton facility I remember this idea yeah we've been having trouble getting a date um they still their property that would be more like what we want in Topsfield is is not the construction is no way near anything um that we would benefit uh going to tour them so they really want us to see their their operations so that would be a brighten we uh a tour of the Brighton facility we were exchanging emails for a while and that kind of that line of communication fell up apart so I will start that up again okay moving right along housing plans Yarmouth housing production Plan update so the the affordable homes act right so um I sent you all a letter I mean um a story from the Associated Press yeah so um the House of Representatives for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts has approved um a housing bill that's uh worth $6.5 billion so remember when the governor introduced this and she did that while she was in Yarmouth right at Yarmouth Gardens remember that um the the dollar amount was 4.1 billion so it's gone up to 6.5 billion so really shows you the support at the State House for this bill um it and it has uh a$1 billion um price tag to allow the MW to expand so if anybody ever lived in the Boston area they know what the U ma it's the Massachusetts Water Resource Authority water system the MW and that's that is a very interesting change um to this bill um that the MW would you know expand its infrastructure benefits so that more housing could be built in their uh District um and it just shows you the importance of proper infrastructure yes behind um housing you on that one another um thing that might be um of interest that was in um the front page of yesterday's Boston Globe that the version that M um Governor Healey put forward was amended a little bit by the house before it went to the state that um apparently the real estate Lobby has been in full force against the transfer fee y um and that was my understanding is not in this bill correct that's correct so the house the house took that piece out they did not approve that piece um and um let's see there was a comment in the in one article in the globe where the Senate a member of the Senate said well we may just put that back in and negotiate so it's not totally dead they could do that right I don't know what the chances are I have no Insight on it but that comment was made yeah yeah yeah so it said uh the bill uh doesn't include a proposal by Governor Healey that would give cities and towns the authority to approve taxes on high-end property sales transfer tax with a transfer tax I believe that's already happening on the islands is it yep and they had to do a home rule petition and then it had to go in as a um Standalone bill right if if that um um tax was allowed was put in this bill right that would just mean that town meeting could authorize that tax you know what I mean I can't see that happening it's it yeah so it um anyways so that right so this all goes to the Senate another um interesting piece was um the uh bill has language that it would allow for the construction of one accessory dwelling unit up to 900 square ft to be built by by right on properties in single family zoning districts so adus by right and also this is very interesting the bill also includes a new $150 million program to help municipalities convert commercial properties into multi-unit residential or mixed juuse properties so I'm glad I'm glad to see some money for the kind of you know housing that our vision uh statement has for the T for the town of Yarmouth I'm a little depressed that it's only $150 billion that seems like a pittance doesn't it for a pittance compared to 4 billion total you know so maybe it's not a lot of money really so we we might get outcompeted for that but we'll see um we'll still put it in but that's big news I did notice that uh I know adus are very very uh controversial among people but I did notice that there was some language that was vague but some uh about localities will still have some control over regulating adus in some way even though it's by right yeah I haven't read it yeah but there was some language to that effect which I don't was vague in the article but it must be specified somewhere yeah it might allow local control of a parking spot stuff like that yeah um I'll have to I'll have to look at it approved they don't call it an Adu we have an accessory apartment bylaw right but it's not by right it's a visit to the zba even if it is by right doesn't the the the the building um inspector need to oh yeah to view it and approve it right that is completely true yeah and that's that's a very Salient point to me anyway right you still to get a building permit you can't just do whatever you want St your basement and start renting it out absolutely not not even close all right um housing plans okay the housing production plan has been approved by the state congratulations yay um it's contingent on um the approval is contingent on a formal letter from the uh select board uh so I sent it out with all the evidence that these votes um have been taken but they actually have to have a letter on letterheads sign by the chair so I'll get that done so that that's a big deal that our housing production plan is approved and I just want to congratulate all of you for your hard work and hanging in there would that take about two years yeah it did and um I do have to say that it was um the the first uh major kind of like change to our timeline had to do with um incorporating more workshops and a survey and that was worth it because we got more comments from the public okay the next I'm dropping the ball here uh where we at number three state housing plan and listening sessions report an update up two oh we're on two how community presid ation plan and public meeting for the 12th couple of days from now yeah there was stuff about that in the packet they're is that a zoom meeting it's going to be held here I think isn't it it's probably going to be a hybrid meeting yeah I'm on that committee be I'll try it would be on Zoom I suppose if it's I I don't know the legal notice doesn't have a zoom link but doesn't if uh at 3:00 on Wednesday right yeah so but all of your meetings are typically Zoom right Lee yes so maybe their agenda has the zoom link and just the press release didn't so I'll find out they have asked um representatives from other committees to do a presentation so I was I checked with Mary on what I might report for the um the housing committee so I'm going to send my draft to um Don Marie and Gary who Gary's the chair of that committee tomorrow morning and say do you approve this good work that's the plan to have the different representatives from those different committees do a brief presentation so I I looked at the plan the draft plan is in your packet um it's very condensed yep doie kind of solidified stuff took some awkward language about housing out kind of like stuff that nobody could remember what the original intent of those recommendations were I um she asked me to fill in this is on page seven some information about um the incomes um updated the um it's like a there's like a a highlighted space and then this chart she's waiting for me for those income limits um the other thing I didn't know if you wanted to um um we'll take dhcd out of there right we'll give him that new name hlc office ofing Community Development EO hlc and so let's I'm just going to go through the goals um on page seven yeah I'm just going to it's so the the goals of the community preservation program under community housing is to promote affordable housing opportunities consistent with the town's housing prodction plan and affordable housing standards that's pretty good the only thing I could think of was adding there was that the um in in general the HPP identified affordable rental housing as the priority need but with uh with the acknowledgement that affordable starter homes were still in need in the community so that the HPP if you boiled it all down to one sentence was we still need our priority need is affordable rental housing but we still need starter homes so I don't know if you wanted to add put that in as a comment um well one of the things they did in this community housing and they did in the others the others they listed some projects but in this section on the community housing they didn't didn't list particular project oh potential projects uh uh past projects because if you notice on historic resources they know the projects okay do you want me to add well I'm hoping to do some of that but you could add with what we talked about okay I'll send that to you in the morning okay because I noticed that that was lacking from that section where the others right open space then the next goal is assist the town in attaining the 10% goal for affordable housing at set as set forth by Mass General Law chapter 4 B I think that's fine meet the regulation guidelines of the now it's going to be the executive office of Housing and liable communities local Initiative Program to qualify the chapter 40b subsidized housing inventory we can take out the lip right it's just people don't automatically know what that means it's just local Initiative Program Yeah by putting it in it's like you're trying to get people to memorize these bloody acronyms you know not happening hrew do acronyms promote the ReUse and Redevelopment of existing properties thought that was pretty good yes promote local preference for Yarmouth residents and employees yeah I don't know much about how that works or could work better preserve affordability of units in perpetuity that's important that's important that that's actually a huge uh Greg probably lived through that that was a huge change affordable units used to only be affordable for 15 years yeah sometimes 40 15 yeah affordable rental units that was the minimum now the state is like forever good y so I don't know if anybody you want to see if anybody online has any um com ments on the goals how about it folks oh wait we have oh I'm I got confused by what I was seeing in the picture do Josh or a whole another board yeah I thought we had a whole other board there Myra com um sounds good okay Josh anything no other comments pal no comments okay so then Lee and I will list will put together a list of uh the uh past projects some of the past projects some of the past projects that we yeah and then the the potential projects you know they look like just you know no addresses things are that are kind of in general and not specific that's fine I don't know how you all feel well they just did with the other areas too oh okay historic resources and some of the other areas you have potential projects but they don't list specific projects now but on the next page they have this little flowchart that taught me something qualifying for historic projects yeah that was helpful to me that was very helpful yeah yeah so this is this meeting is seen as an information system um an information session for people who might be interested in applying I see even though they send her an RFP sometimes people come to the table and or send an application actually which doesn't fit at all so it's trying to help people understand okay and Don Marie is always open to addressing questions all right when people talk about interested being interested in the project Mary I have a question um the uh meeting packet uh for today is is that basically the same information as what you sent out for the trust a lot of it is the only thing I have is is um the agenda and the um uh forms for the homes Consortium for this meeting forms for the home Consortium oh yeah okay the appointment forms oh yes I see what you mean yep but that's all I got that was specifically labeled community housing committee oh that's yeah that's very little of the total that we have sitting in front of us yeah well she also sent the trust a bunch of stuff so I was just wondering if it was the same stuff so you didn't you didn't get the community preservation plan I don't think I think so I'll go back and look again but um I remember looking at it but I'm not sure if I actually saw it from you or whether it was something else I was looking at um but this could be I it's not but it could be my house is the same design can I comment yes ma'am sorry go ahead pal so it's in your email on 65 65 did you get that Myra the date I'm looking yeah and it's exhibit 03 there you go okay 65 yes okay [Music] um sorry I hold you up let's see I just want to make sure I got stuff uh I I don't see it here but it you know sometimes Outlook eats my email so um maybe I'll just ask as a favor Mary if you could just forward me that again and did you get the other email attachments that went out on Friday did you get the additional attachments that went out on Friday [Music] uh I'm look yeah so I just sent that to you thank you um yeah for some reason it's not showing up here I don't know whether it would show up on my phone or or what can you just send it out to everybody I mean again so um I had my email was down so I'm not sure if I got it either right and um thanks P for for finding that email I today when I was sending things out they were bumping back oh and there was a there was a size issue with the the some of these so I might I might have to because they were plans so I might have to um send you these materials with links do you know what I mean no longer PDF attachments right um the one that the um the trust uh I know I could download as a zip fot you know and then unzip it right because you did have plans on that um and then this morning I put out uh Friday was a was a crazy day here a happy but crazy day here at at Town Hall and um I'm just going to share my news okay I'm the union president and we settled on a contract all right that yeah so I I you see my R know like this is like a big deal so all Friday afternoon I was we were like negotiating and it just the the the man management just stepped up to the plate and it's just a wonderful news but anyways I did leave without and I get here this morning I'm like oh my God I have more plans for these people so I apologize for sending you some stuff out this morning go this morning I thought it was for um but um yeah it did get bumped back and Myra Ys is one of the emails that came back said oh your attachments were too large bump back and John too so I think I might have to um there's a way we can do that through our our website I upload the the documents and then just send you links to the mall I know I I know that's not as convenient but it's pretty convenient anyway looking for the housing production plan on the website yeah it's find it yeah it's there it's buried remember my like oh I have to click like 10 times to find anything this is the this is the world we're in yeah yeah but um we all run into that I do too like every once in a while I just get baffled by stuff like this so sorry Myra I'll I'll I well let's try that the links um and yeah and also I might have duplicates in the trust packet so that that saved me so where were we number three we're on number three now State housing plan and listening sessions report so I think that oh this was super interesting I love stuff like that you know this so anyways Your Enthusiasm is infectious is all I say the secretary did the Secretary of Housing was down here um at secretary Augustus right so he was here he uh he was at the Cape Cod Community College um his staff was there they did a presentation that was phenomenal they they it was it was uh you know it was catered towards the cape they acknowledged our need for the designation of seasonal Community right they acknowledged that they themselves didn't have a plan that they make us have a 5-year plan but they don't have any 5year plan so that and they got us to the point where they were like we we you know they like we know there's a need for housing you don't have to tell us how bad your local economy and your local communities need housing let's jump right into breakout groups and ask for your vision and your strategies and it was delightful um I had so yeah so and every one of us got like these big sticky notes to write everything on so even if you weren't called upon or too sh you were too sh they still were going to compile all those I um I was able to attend the first part and it was very interesting and I have to commend Mary she got some good FaceTime with representative Flanigan to make him aware of some issues so congratulations for that good job yeah and then um Drew and I stayed Drew you went to your breakout group how was that very good I I thought it was great just like you're saying but there's no way I can match your enthus enthusiasm you're just you're the champ of enthusiasm it's a beautiful thing but like exactly like you that's exactly how it went down just like you're describing and it was a very very good thing and uh those are the main points that you just outlined and I was pretty well attended too I thought I think there was what 80 yeah there was a lot of people there I mean we assembled in the largest Auditorium they had so it looked sparse but that Pro that that holds what I don't know what th000 people but when you broke out into the breakout rooms I mean there was like 35 people in mine and I was one of three um the other thing that I thought was great was that there were a lot of people in the cape that brought up our water quality brought up what our water quality water quality yeah that um that we needed money for uh Wastewater infrastructure yeah I bragged on that a little bit that Yarmouth is putting in sewer that was a big big topic for obvious reasons so people from other towns brought that up yeah um so I thought and I brought it up I I I do have to let you know that I did represent mashby that day MH but of course you know when people were talking about experiences and what works on the cape ion of switched over to Yarmouth but um there were they were two developers in the in the room and that was really great um and they did talk about this is I don't remember the proposed chapter 40b on Route 28 um that we went to to the left of the Bass River Motel to the left 82 828 Route 28 remember we that remember the chapter 40b with u Mr Clary U remember we went to the site visit anyways so they remember he the laundromat the laundromat thank you thank you thank you so remember there's an issue with parking right easement situation there was there and he was talking about well he wanted the the mixed juice or we going to have a restaurant development financing the oyster bar and and for some reason it was going to be an oyster bar right so I remember we talked about parking and how we would fit all those parking spots and were they going to have shared parking and remember he talked about the fleet of vehicles that if remember that part so anyways one of his one of his ideas was that if you didn't have enough parking for that development that nobody could bring a car into the development and what they were offered as part of their rent was like a zip car an electric Fleet car and you sign up to use it h I forgot about that yeah concept and that was one of the ideas was that there would be shared vehicles not so much parking for your own vehicles but in part of your amenity and your rent would be um a shared electric car so those developers were talking about that because I've seen it's kind of interesting to me yeah you know the there's some there's some very large scale developments being proposed on the little bit of undeveloped land um kind of um in sandwich and Falmouth and there's units unit counts of like in the hundreds 300 600 900 and they show you the buildings right but they don't show you the site plan with all the parking right you're going to like where is all this parking going to go so it's something that local developers are thinking about carefully so well it's interesting concept but you'd have to have it monitored in some way so that it gets distributed you know evenly yes right that is an interesting I have a friend who just bought an all electric vehicle and kept her other car as well so that's registering two cars but if you can do this nice wonder how that laundromat plan is coming along ex laundromat plan stalled I guess I don't know why don't you ask me to find out Mary uh get on that right away will you please trying to think of where that could be laundromat well there's an old laundromat on Route 28 that's been out of use for quite a long time and a couple of years ago we uh is this the one just like six blocks from here it's on the south side of 28 it's near the Bass River Motel right yeah yep yeah it's this side of the Bass River Motel yeah and it has like the it's just the the building is set back there lawn building with the windows right a bunch of I mean the build sign there that says laundry right but it it hasn't been operating for quite a long time and these the owner of that property had a plan to develop it it was a it was a they they came and made a proposal sort of like these fellas did only it wasn't quite as clearcut it had to do with a restaurant and they envisioned putting the building like almost right on Route 28 without any it was an but it was a good idea but I I'm not sure it's feasible we had to keep the the commercial building physically separate from the residential building one more wasone right exactly there was something with their financing that they had to keep the commercial building completely separate physically separate we have a project been not doing that the residential and we wanted them to combine signed so they were virtually touching at one of their Corners it's going to be an oyster bar in an apartment building yeah yeah and they why didn't that work and then they and then they proposed for the building to be in front of the was not a very large parcel land right is it I mean doesn't look like it so they got their eligibility letter from the state so um well it's better it could be better than AB an abandoned laundry possibly I wish I had gone to that um State housing plan meeting oh there's going to be more plans of you know to fall apart and they don't even know why so they they their staff timeline is to have a draft out in the fall but to use this summer to to do some more Outreach like electronically and one of the suggestions which got picked up on was to since since the people that are leaving are age what 26 to 36 to do special focus groups um on that group and we were like you don't have to call them together to be physically in a meeting because they're all online yes so they really um picked up on that you could see that they were like oh we can figure that out I also recommended that they um you know have a focus group with the tribe the tribe um and they're really they're hoping to continue Outreach um you know we we picked up on it because we're stakeholders right but um you know the general public they wanted to do more work on that and then hopefully have something in writing for the fall for us to look at okay where are we at here that I think that covers the big listening session I enjoyed it very much and I said things about Yarmouth that were good and I heard things that were interesting from other towns just like you did yeah um okay so you included in this uh packet that statement that I that you that I was going to make at that meeting remember that yeah I didn't know what you guys wanted to do if you wanted to submit that formally or just wait you think there's any point to that well then let's forget about it I think we're good actually before we forget about it one point I'd like to make is the designating Yarmouth as a seasonal Community didn't didn't it come up at one point that most of the cape was designated as that but Yarmouth was not yeah I'd like to make sure that Yarmouth is included in that you explain something about that to us uh Mary so when we um and I wasn't in involved in that conversation our Our Town planner was in touch with um Senator's office MH and it was just put out there you know any community that has 30% or more of its year-round housing stock would be designated a seasonal community and she noted whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa Yarmouth is only 20 technically we're only 27% at 27 % so 27% of our housing year round housing oh our housing stock is used for the for seasonally only and so she just wanted to make sure that Yarmouth was was included in that designation so you think I think that's a good comment to put in um I think want to make a motion to submit that I think it's extremely important so the easiest way to do that is just submit that uh St statement as you included it as we've included it in in the pack right the entire uh statement all of Cape Cod should be should that's in our statement and I think it will work out that way I'm hopeful it will yeah but we want to keep pushing that okay so the cape who wants to make a motion go ahead Greg see if you can formulate a motion that um we include um we um submit some wording to uh make sure that the town of Yarmouth is included as a seasonal Community um did you did we just want to include this old statement did you see the statement that was included in the packet Greg I did do you want to make that our uh sure yeah okay this this one we looking at something different no we're looking at the same thing okay oh I'm I'm not holding up the right thing but but I'm thinking about the right thing in item six it does say designate every town in the cape as a seasonal Community yeah that's right yeah then I would say submited as is yeah I would too okay M so did somebody make a motion Greg made a partial motion I'll try it again uh I make a motion that we include all of the wording I have a second copy so keep that in the community housing committee comments community housing committee comments for the listening session yeah okay that's the motion and second second okay do we have to do a roll call or we can just do a Voice vote uh you have people in the remote I wouldest you know we're going to have it come from the the chair John bar okay so to and to authorize John to to finalize the the words the after this meeting the chair of the committee will be John bar so we want to authorize John to uh finalize the in his own name you have to change it won't say drew Krauss as it does on here yeah is that that's an acceptable notion right so uh Myra how do you vote on this proposition hi Josh I pal I uh Greg I John I drew I Lee I okay all that's passed unanimously okay so now we can finally move forward to the Cape Cod Commission regional housing strategy I remember that yep it was published right uh Greg actually looked at it yeah and so I haven't looked at let me interrupt I went through the public comments All 70 Pages uh and I I sent you an email Mary with some of the the concerns that people had I actually out still going through the final version and the draft to see the differences I'm about halfway through some interesting changes um I will say that um going through it and I shared this with Mary thank you for sending that to me Mary but the criticisms included and and if I'm wrong Mary you can add some of these that um um people were a little resentful of the commission's overreach or or apparent overreach some of lack of transparency and their desire for more Authority many were upset about the lack of limiting Airbnb and other short-term rental organizations um from off Cape um investors um um uh there was that just happened the house next to me was just sold to someone who's who's renting it out so um um and then water issues um density overdevelopment not Redevelopment um I'm I'm sorry um yeah Redevelopment wasn't as um prevalent as new development um people were upset with that um issues with as I mentioned water environment climate change issues quality of life issues um because of possible overdevelopment ruin the charm of Cape Cod um and again there was a a general distrust of uh the commission's mission or agenda by a lot of people um or I should say the people that um commented 70 did you say approximately there was it was 70 Pages um yeah some people submitted um some comments um separately instead of in one page um um those were not generally very positive people were shooting from the hip um um but it was it was those were the main things as water issues and um people I think are concerned about new big huge large developments um where we have gray fields that need to be redeveloped as opposed to big mon monstrosities of apartment buildings so so like an Independence Park and all those places yeah things like that places like that came up quite a bit I can't believe I can't believe that they if they filled all those units is massive another development going down behind the uh on Handover is behind the medical is that yeah that's another good I haven't been down that road for a bit but that's going to be another big project and I don't know if this is happening on Cape as much but then the globe they had coverage of big um corporations buying property and displacing renters and tripling you know the rents and so forth really pushing people that's been going on for for a while you know is that on rents up by $1,000 a month uh kick them out and and you know gentrifying parts of the city right but is that happening on Cape Cod well I mean I think that's what some people are afraid of um um that um that some of these the possibility of some of these large developments isn't really going to help with with affordable housing or attainable housing right um and it that it's going to attract more people to the cape and not keep people here right well a couple of years ago hack did a study on um housing on Cape Cod and one of the issues was people leaving because they can't find housing and they don't get paid enough and they get paid more in other areas that came up in a number of comments as well that if if you build all these big apartment complexes is going to cost a lot of money who's going to be able to afford to live there and as as as Mary mentioned a little while ago you you got 26 to 36 year old people who are flocking off the cape because they can't make enough money to live here and then you can't find people exactly healthare and nursing homes and everything else okay it it was interesting if if you got a couple hours to kill uh it's worth going through um so all those comments that you that you went went through is that available online at the um Mary sent me the links actually so um I had to print them out oh that's right they wouldn't open them so I had to print them out because I requested all the public comments so it came to me as like a public records request I still have them if someone wants to i instead of you know re printing them all over again if you don't mind my notes I don't think I sworn any of my notes or anything [Laughter] so it is interesting it uh it is interesting cuz because when I first when Greg first asked it's like oh nobody really commented well I was wrong I looked at it again there were people from across the cape that commented and some people are like from agencies some were like uh you know Community groups and then there were some individuals that really spent a lot of time on this there were some individuals that that wrote three I mean and some of them were very well worded and um thoughtful and two three pages and and you're right there were some there were some entities that you know clearly were um smooching up to the commission a little bit uh and but I understand how it works but but you know John Q public there were some people out there that made some very cogent um intelligent thoughtful um criticisms and um approv some things as well so it was it was it was very interesting did they just not include that with whatever they have on their website I'll have to double check um I'll have to double check Myra because um I remember asking for it and the Cap Cod Commission they have a great uh public records uh system they do all of that stuff upfront so when you ask them for something you get it but it was a link only for me right so when I sent the link to he couldn't get into it cuz he wasn't coming from my email you for somehow somehow or another it knew it was it was Greg and not Mary so I ended up just instead of figuring it out I just printed them out for him but I can I can I can ask Aon Perry who is just a delight to work with how to how to get the to all of you yes okay good yeah I'd be interested in Reading it's it's interesting I mean there was some person from Barnstable I got to I got to get in touch with him he was so he did like three pages and it was really well thought out not that I agreed with everything he said but I was like oh I want to know if he's on the housing committee over there it's interesting that we put all the comments that we got on our website in with our report why wouldn't the commission do the same thing right I think they were surprised to tell you the honest truth truth Myra I think they were surprised at how many people took an interest in this I really think they were surprised at how many people read it and commented on it and I but I'll I'll ask aarin um I I don't want to come across as as overly negative but the two times that they released these this strategy was you know news dumps uh December 30th Friday afternoon 5:00 people that's a holiday weekend no one's reading that and then the Thursday before Memorial Day weekend they they the final so um so I me I get it they with very little time for comment exactly and a lot of people said that too that you know hello you you've been working on this for years and then you won't let us comment you know you give us still only two weeks uh to read a very comprehensive strategy so one my comment when they did a presentation here is they were absent from the discussion on affordable housing for years they didn't have a housing person on their staff and they did many many years ago so kind of I stunned me that the like this is going to sound so negative I don't mean it to sound negative but um in going through the draft and the final version there's a there's on on challenges it says that they were they were um charged in 1990 to to to to begin doing what they do and and one of the things is a is dealing with affordable housing so on the draft the last um sentence in the paragraph of challenges is that um you know the problem has only gotten worse and now it's a crisis they took that out of the the final version which I don't blame him I would have done this I wouldn't have put it in the draft either but you know makes them look like hey we doing this for 34 years it's only got worse under our under our watch right so they took that one right out which I I don't blame them I would have done the same thing well it's it's true though yeah um it's true yeah I'm glad that you're looking at that thanks Greg you continue someone need I don't mean but you know these big companies corporations organizations you know they they they most of us know maybe you know that this is a fine print you know what what what can they get get past you um so um so it's actually I'm I'm enjoying it good I'm a skeptic apparently so uh well I hope I get a CH we get a chance to see all these public comments because they're public comments right should be they're not secret comments can you send them to us Greg um I have a I I I couldn't open link that she sent me so if I sent them to you you probably wouldn't be able to open it either right I see but if I happy to bring the not back to you bring me back the printed copy and I'll let you know when it's here when you can pick that up I'm going to stop in and get sworn in tomorrow so I'll bring it tomorrow and I'm going to try to get Erin to put it in a a format that we can all see that's really good forgive me in ADV uh in advance if I if I use any cuss words on the on the notes okay well well all right as an elderly gentleman I am beginning to run out of steam here so I think we're on new business now huh none none none that brings us to reports and actions chair's report I have no report home Consortium is there any report what's our report care that we full member and and adulate member fully the next meeting is June 20th Housing Authority is is chugging along there are nothing dramatic that can be public publicly reported at this time but there is there is activity happening about our housing project and our routine projects are going swimmingly as routine projects what about the planning board report any report the only thing I I and this could have gone under the Department of Community Development is I met with the Plenty board last Wednesday to introduce our proposed language for the cash payment in lie of affordable housing they understood what we were talking about um we cited like the Warren report so what they've asked the town planner to do is to tighten up our language a little bit um so that if the Warren report like for example wasn't in business H how would this function we all think the Warren report will always be in business but you know in 15 years you know will will this bylaw stand the test of time since we're using um data from the Warren report so the Warren report gives you you know the medium sales of a three-bedroom home um and then we have an affordable price from the state and the difference between that is the gap the affordable Gap and that's that would be the minimum cash payment um in Li of affordable housing uh on site so we were thinking of like things like instead of just leaving it at the warrant report you know or the town assessor something like that um so so the planner is working on that I see for the final language but I think in general they were they were happy with the concept um they're not happy that when you do a sample calculation it comes out to over 30 $300,000 to buy out uh a home um but that's what it what it costs so I happy reality I kind of said to them well you know you could use that calculator calculation minus 15% you know to to get them to adjust to it but we'll see what happens the um price that we calculated for uh a rental unit or a half of a duplex would be 190,000 per unit and they were more comfortable with that number but still it's it's based on there there has to be enough pain in it to to induce people to build affordable housing rather than to buy out of affordable housing right and any luxury development is going to want to buy out and they're going to have the money to do it to do it and what do we do with the money once we get it it goes to the affordable housing Trust so yeah are they invested in development let's hope so they do um Community preservation committee I we're pretty well yeah we're informed planning meeting on 12 and so forth Department of Community Development and no report okay upcoming meetings we want to do the well you've got your working group thing yeah we had been doing um July still might be a little bit too busy to have a working group I can't um oh that's what you're doing on Friday okay um when we can right so our next meeting is July 8th July the Friday before that would be 2024 you're right how did 2023 sneak back in um so that would mean our working group would be you know July 5th and I'm not working that day so I was thinking that maybe we skip working groups for July it's no skin off my nose the skin off anyone's nose apparently all the skin is intact so I I think we can safely skip that unless somebody has a different opinion which I would be and thank you for your service now we're talking thank you for serving and for writing that statement the gold watch ceremony will be it's been an honor and a privilege I'm I'm glad to uh be able to uh stop doing this and I'm glad you're you're you were elected to take over China I think that's a good good outcome thank you yep thank you drew and congratulations did our best to keep this rly group in line yeah that's right I had to keep myself in line mostly but I did pretty well with that and is everybody available July 8th yes yes okay good okay we're going to entertain I would I would entertain a motion to adj I make a motion to adjourn second John seconds uh here's the roll call Myra I Josh hi pal hi Greg I John I me I Lee Le I the meeting is adjourned oh