##VIDEO ID:vNfvT1kHQKU## yep so I'm going to be using my phone because people that are online recording in progress thank you so much okay so here is uh for anything else meeting of the community housing committee for it's a special meeting of the community housing committee but I'm going to open it up on here on January 6 2025 I'm the vice chair sitting in to uh chair this particular meeting uh first I want to take attendance for the housing committee members to establish a quarum I'm going to start online I see Greg Wheeler there here pal here Josh Trot here M Hamilton I'm Drew Krauss Myra here that's it so we have a quirm of the community housing committee the meeting is now open I'm going to read this statement everybody reads into the record it's to formally advis that is required by mgl chapter 30A section 18 to2 pursuing to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 an act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed into law on June 16 2021 is extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023 the community housing committee and the affordable housing trust will together hold a public meeting on Monday January 6th 2025 at 3 p.m. in the hearing room at Yarmouth Town Hall 1146 Route 28 South Yarmouth ma Mass 02664 the public is welcome to attend either imp personer via the alternative Public Access provided in the public notice of this meeting so next we're going to go right to new business and that is the to open up the meeting of the truck okay and now uh you hand it over Mr written hour will'll open up the meeting of the affordable housing trust way to go Mary Robert ritow chairman of the a Housing Trust uh there'll be a being a quorum president present I'll open up meeting of the Yarmouth affordable housing trust and present here Myra suenes here and so um we're we're called to order and maybe before I turn it back to to Drew I just a couple of words this is a very auspicious uh you know Gathering that we have here today between the affordable housing trust uh the community housing committee and we have the um folks from the matachi utilization committee I'm G to try to say mck as few times as I possibly can these proceedings um also our guests from the Barrett Planning Group um stab Kathy Williams Kathy green and you know I I want to go around and do you know some more formal introductions but um I I really have to to welcome the madak kees utilization committee and thank them for uh bringing us together you'd think we meet like this um every other week um but you know we really haven't had a lot of these brainstorming sessions and um what we're here today to do is to um Embark as our Town's affordable housing agencies along with the mades committee on exploring opportuni presented by this substantial property that has been turned back to the town from the Dennis Yarmouth Regional School District to determine if um it's feasible and there are um any possibilities for uh developing affordable housing at this site uh this is a process that is going to um go on for uh perhaps several months and we're here to um kick it off and I I want to welcome everyone and and thank you all for coming did you have some comments that you want to make uh no we're happy to have this meeting and uh I think we ought to kick it off right away with the first order of new business if it's okay with everybody why don't we get a chance for um everyone to say introduce everyone everyone to say hi I mention a couple people but I don't want to leave anyone out and again I'm we'll go right around the room and everyone can just um introduce themselves I'm Bob ritow uh in addition to uh serving as the chairman for the affordable housing trust I'm also the Town Administrator here in Yarmouth I'm uh Drew Krauss I'm on the I'm the representative from the Yarmouth housing authority to the community housing committee and I'm I've also been uh I also am uh representing the uh Community preservation committee too for the Housing Authority I'm Lee Hilton and I'm a member of the community housing committee and I also Al in the representative the community preservation committee and I don't believe I'm representing them today but just to note that I represent this committee on that committee uh Joshua Trot I'm representative of the community housing committee and I am an alternate member for the home Consortium hi I'm Roby White House I am a member of the mes utilization committee and I am also the assistant Public Works director here in the town of arm uh my name is Barbara Le vo and I am also a member of the madak utilization committee and a newbie volunteer for this uh kind of Adventure Sharon wymer and I'm a member of the U realization committee as well I'm serving as chairman as we progress through the months of very optimistic I would say uh thrill to be involved with all of this and trying to get something that will be a very important piece for the town Arman I am uh Bill Scott the assistant Town Administrator and uh the staff to the utilization committee and the reason why we're cutting down all these trees with all these memos hi I'm Alexis lelot I'm with Barrett Planning Group um and we are um Consultants um assisting the town on this process Kathy Williams Town planner Karen green director of Community Development Mary wagan affordable housing program administrator Myra sah henich community housing committee and affordable housing trust Bob Lon I'm the vice chairman of the affordable housing trust okay great and um also you know I think it'd be a good time um I want to acknowledge U and and welcome from the Barrett Planning Group and and I think it would be appropriate for me just uh in in terms of a couple of words of um introduction I I I want to sincerely recognize and acknowledge uh Barnstable County um as sort of a unseen participant in this process that um through grant funding the uh B Barnstable County has um done a procurement and selected the bar planning group to offer affordable housing planning assistance to communities throughout Barnstable County and each town has been allotted a certain amount of hours to have this um actually works out for us to be free uh high quality planning assistance around affordable housing projects and um and thanks also to to Mary you know for her suggestion that this looked like the um best process that where we need some guidance and and help and by having uh these consulting services available to us I think that'll be a tremendous value to the process sure Mary we have three people online too oh here we go let's um thank you for the compliment yeah continue our figure out how to [Laughter] unmute everybody my name is Greg Wheeler I'm sorry that I'm not there in person I've got a nasty call I don't wish on anybody uh I'm in a rep of the uh uh Yarmouth Community House in committee and I'm also a rep of the barnable County Home Consortium advisory uh committee how about P you want to say something yes hi my name is Pomo Sor I'm also a part of the community housing of yarmi and the other per I'm having trouble reading a little bit I think it's Judy yeah Judy Barrett Barrett Planning Group I have to give a special hi to Bill Scott I haven't seen bill in a long time hi thank you welcome Judy well I I thought the um best thing to do now we'd like to welcome our our guests from the mades utilization committee and um thanks for introducing yourselves and and pulling this whole project together we thought that the best thing to do you know for us to start is to hear a little bit from the committee in terms of um what your expectations would be from our group how your process is sort of structured and how best you know we can Orient ourselves to make this a you know constructive project maybe I don't know Sharon you well I I I will defer to bill because bill has worked on this project for quite a few months um he's worked with the select board to Fashion this procedure and he is well aware of everything that needs to be done use the mic please oh sorry sorry um that's okay um so we're going to defer to Bill to talk to you about the procedures that we've outlined and we voted on and we've had two meetings to date and we are working will be working on a third meeting this month but uh bill has been working on this for a number of months um and work this procedure that we're all excited about so I'll defer to Bill sure um uh the process really begins with the board of Selectmen when they establish the select board charge that is in U in the memorandum that I originally sent uh5 it's uh in the back there's a memo dated November 1st to uh the mades utilization committee and in that the charge describes sort of looking at several different types of land uses as possibilities and creating plans so as we were going through the process as the board was going through the process how do we select members for this committee what they didn't want to do is they didn't want to load it up with people that already have their ideas they wanted sort of a fresh perspective or they as they refer to as a clean slate so a lot of the committee members uh are not committee members that are typical to local committees but then as we were looking at appointing committees were coming in with ideas and saying why don't we do this why don't we do this and um we thought that it would be a shame if we ignored all these different committees to only have you know a plan developed by a group to then have people just come to the podium and say try this or that so the entire idea about having each committee representing one of these land use topics as creating a proposal reaches back into your HPP and everything else that you've been doing as a group to say what do you think about this you know what's in your HPP what's in your prior meetings what's in your uh I remember going to an event at the senior center during the HPP and there was sort of a focus group system where people asked what affordable housing would you want those are good you know foundations for the information to bring forward to this so moving on from the charge you then try to figure out okay how do we include all these different groups and the three-stage process comes in we could ask you to do brainstorming and then leave it at that and then have 10 ideas per group but the outcome is going to be that when you want to file one you're going to go through that filtering process anyway so month one um is sort of you know going against Bob's uh saying regarding muuk month one is run a Muk it is whatever you think of and I've heard of a lot of ideas for this site that you know are at either end of the Continuum as it were so brainstorming and it doesn't take a lot of sight detail to say I think it should be X number of units of this type you know one of the things you might want to do is you take a look at benchmarking of other developments and say oh that would look good here or this would look good there so when you have some good examples uh locally once you finish that process and there's a form in the back that will go to the committee uh it may be refined it's a fillable form and you basically fill that out for all of your ideas for each of your ideas so you may have an idea that has three components and you want to maybe put each component in here then your next meeting in between that you're taking a look at it and taking a look at what's important what's not important we you know which idea really has Merit and could move forward which idea fulfills the needs of your you know analysis your studies policies and then you get it down to three ideas those three ideas could be several of one I mean you might decide that you want to do affordable housing plus some sort of Center uh to help people uh you know educational or whatever and that might be with you know uh other organizations the important thing about the forums is they get shared across the other groups the other teams and they look at them and say oh that might work well with our idea so your next one is the three and then your last one is basically the one idea but at two levels so uh there's a higher level level idea in terms of maybe more density and then there's a moderate or elevated as I call it uh so you develop that idea then it's a matter of the committee seeing how the process is evolving and then asking you to file an actual proposal in the meantime as we're going through this process the committee is sharing across with their Liaisons and saying this is what we see in Recreation this is what we we see from Economic Development and eventually it becomes a puzzle the great uh part about this is nobody should be able to say why didn't you think of this oh because you would have I mean I've seen projects like this go for a year and then somebody throws an epiphany in the air and you're going all the way back to the beginning so hopefully when you do the sort of first process you think of as much as you can you know opportunities and then you get it down to three and in doing that you're starting to say to yourself we don't want to do this because of these factors you know I mean what is your demographics and other things say in your HPP that targets the type of housing that you might need there's been a lot of talk about housing for you know uh sort of middle managers as it were and nurses and you know uh Municipal Employees that can't afford the half a million dollar home so it's not necessarily affordable but it keeps those people in the community uh you know and staying here and working here so it's really targeting the sector that you want to Target and taking a look at how this site lends itself to supporting that so you've got those three meetings there's the run a muck there is the down to three and then there's the one at two levels then you moving on and you know into the RFP which we'll we'll develop the RFP as we see the process evolve what we didn't want to do is give the RFP and then it' be like uh designing to the test you know uh sometimes when people see it too early they say well we'll do well if or we if we you know develop our idea this way so uh by the time you get the RP there a consultant on board and then they're helping the sort of dialogue between the groups uh I'll give you an idea in Recreation we have a Fields consultant that is in the process of we're hiring them and they're going to help the recreation people take a look at what are the demographic issues what types of fields should we have here and how do we configure that um so you get to that process and the rest of the scope is really about pulling together all these pieces of the puzzle into a project so you you know you're developing the plan earlier than you think uh I mean really to get down the Drawing level and everything else it's probably a uh an additional phase But after those rfps come in then it's a dialogue between maybe a subcommittee of this group meeting with the utilization committee and the consultant to say how do we fit all this in you know school department is also part of this you know whether or not em small goes there uh and you know you're a big part because if you look at all the land uses the one driver that delivers grants is housing you know so housing can get a sewer line to this housing can do a lot of things depending upon you know what your numbers are and how it plays well with the state programs Recreation doesn't usually run sewer lines and you know the use of the auditorium probably wouldn't be enough to be competitive but housing is the driver to make the utilities and some of the site costs you know uh be more in state programs than it is in Municipal so a couple of keys to the process is the reason why we're taking all this expertise in other groups and we're pulling together is we don't have a lot of time uh we can't be at this for four to five years because we're spending money keeping the building you know uh in a certain condition so we don't want to carry the building for that long so using your expertise is sort of delegating out and then bringing things in much more quickly uh same thing with Recreation they have a good idea what they want to do Economic Development uh education so that gets us closer to the goal of a plan because we're relying on the plans you've already done open space and uh natural resources same thing they have a plan also and the second thing is cost uh it's a lot more cost effective when we're relying on the work that you've already been able to accomplish then bringing that to the consultant to say okay help us sort this out if we were to start with a consultant and have them hold these meetings then I'm going back to town meeting to get more money to then pay for this process so you know Mary's work to get Barrett on board is you know great I mean that's going to help you quite a bit and to be able to do that without you know hitting the budget is very important but those are two sort of background keys that are not really part of the charge which is we got to get it done Rel relatively uh effectively and efficiently and then we've got to get it done with a reasonable cost so in this scope you know there's going to be a plan developed and then you get to the implementation step so we'll probably go back down the town meeting somewhere around five or phase six and that's that memorandum that I talked about that's in the back on page seven of that you're into phase five final plan development and imp implementation plan the board really wants sort of what are you going to use it for we're going to take it a step further but probably go back in for more funding after people say we like the vision and then get more design done then it's a matter of you know how much of this are you going to put out to an RP to the private sector or you going to have the private sector develop your housing you know uh are they going to do something with the auditorium it's unlikely to be involved in the ball fields unless it's a tournament Center so after you get that implementation plan done then you're picking what parts of the site might go out to an RFP to the private sector so inherently you know rather than you know there's a lot of processes which you you know get a consultant and get the committee and then everybody comes to a Podium we have focus group meetings and everything else and those are all valid uh but you just finished the HPP the open space Committee just finished the open space of recreation the Recreation Commission is hiring a consultant now to help them with a Fields analysis and so there's a lot of movement that it already has established information that we can bring to the table here the difficulty is you cannot imagine the Matrix and trying to get all the different meetings together when you might have somebody that's on fincom that's also on another committee and then this committee and you're saying oh great that's a perfect place for the housing committee to have their meeting and then you realize it conflicts with two other meetings so there's going to be a challenge to get this down so that all our Liaisons can attend all your meetings because in the first blush uh mck people were meeting three times a week so we have to sort of work through that scheduling uh thing and hopefully get this done over the summer because the ramp up in CIP starts in August and then the ramp up in fincom shortly after that so we get a lot of work done before August then we're not going to get into all those conflicts so that's it and it's good question um I'd spend hours today going through all this material yeah because we get it in bits and pieces and it's overwhelming and um so I spent a lot of time looking at it today and one of the things is the town's going to hire a consultant to evaluate the structure of the madaki school so my question is when that will be done so we'll know what is viable for rehab in that building or if it's all going to be demolished or part of it's going to be the sa save like the auditorium yes so when will that be available so 2014 there was an analysis and then we uh just had a little blip with our consultant that this is probably going to be done by the end of January is your they'll have a it's called an a Asm analysis which is basically a type of analysis that is very detailed in terms of the condition and the cost of the building I think what the what is also in here is the consultant is going to take a look at cost per square foot uh sort of Redevelopment of the building by land use by by use type so I give you an example if that were office it would be cheaper because the utilities aren't as demanding for each room but as a residential site because it's all pretty much horizontal it's going to be not very cost effective you regardless of the cost of the building because you're going to have to run domestic sprinkler you know EET power to every single unit so I've seen people look at places like that that are almost uh a mall is easier to do or a big box because it's all wide open but there's so much concrete and other things involved in that that it's going to be it's it's less about the condition of the building and more about uh land uses like residential are going to be costly office might work you know things like that thank you I have one other question I believe there are five people on I'll say mck Kathy are you one of them no no okay so was the fifth person not here tonight there are seven seven seven okay there are seven and the these three members are the liais onto the housing pod so there's an economic development there's three there's some members of Muk that go to cedc and recre so these are our three re uh Liaisons thank you thank you for that clarification those are my questions yeah and and and to uh Mary's point on page two of the the teams memo as we call it there's a diagram there that e that people were going to engage education and Municipal services will be a little bit different because they involve mostly staff but the rest of it is like this it is combining various committees to form one sort of unit of the topic so open space and natural resources might be the open space committee concom and then the water department I miss that thank you you're welcome well it sounded like um one of the points that that you were making that um the committe is going to be evaluating uh potentially multiple uses for the entire uh parcel where um housing you know may may be a a very productive component of that and uh potentially might even be a key to unlocking some of the economic resources to bring services to the site that might lead to other Municipal uses or Community uses that would be beneficial so it's it's kind of good to hear that in in this group that there's a you know positive aspects of bringing housing um in here that that may unlock uh a more productive use of the overall site as opposed to having you know this viewed as just one big housing site that it looks like a a potentially multiple uses for the overall property yeah and and I mean to that point Bob uh as we were developing the committee and uh there was a lot of different people throwing spaghetti against the wall saying it should be a a Recreation Complex for tournaments it should be this it should be that and so in all fairness rather than creating a process where everybody throws in their idea without some you know Synergy across you know each one you know a process with the same type of meetings and same type of deliverables uh that becomes a competition so we although this may become a competition we just want to be sure that everybody has the voice per per land use and to your point governing Healey's programs for housing are probably the most extensive I've ever seen in the state so there is a lot of potential grant money for housing as the driver for the site that is nobody U the grant that come brings let's say sewer down the street if you look at the context map you can see you're surrounded by Wells there's about five of them all the way around the site nobody's going to be building housing with septics systems on that site so sewer is going to be key but it doesn't mean that that trunk line can't serve three other uses so housing becomes almost the financial driver I see uh to allow the other uses to exist without impact but nobody's building sewer lines for recreation uh nobody's going to give you a sewer line for a school uh in the auditorium you'd have to have something quite large to be able to leverage that on the economic side so your use you know as you sort of measure this you also need to take a look at what are those programs that Governor Healey has and how that they leverage everything else and if you look at it you run a trunk line down there and all a sudden all the surrounding streets which are sort of centered and surrounded by Wells then become V able for connections to get all those septic systems out so it's that kind of domino effect housing begets infrastructure which solves septic system problems and facilitates other items in the site so that's why when you bring all these different uses together you start seeing that coordination and you know the the forms are somewhat I mean this is somewhat innocuous but we can't be so specific one land use that we're trying to compare apples to oranges so the first one is I mean the great thing is six months from now somebody's going to ask you what didn't you think of this oh yeah here's the form it's right here and this is why we discounted it great any other questions for Bill I just had one um where does em small fit into this is that part of the site that is being looked at or is it a like a a different phase or there there actually a bubble in the process and uh I'm going to reach out to them and uh basically talk to them but there has been some discussion about should they be at station a with an addition to the existing building should they be at a separate building somewhere else and so on so I think what's going to happen is the this committee uh utilizations committee supposed to De deliver three types of utilization ideas to the board it may be you'll see a school in a gray area and say that's the reserve site for them if they choose to do that so we don't want to hold up the process while they're working in another level with both the state and the board and the school board but we want to give them you know the ability to you know say it's going to be here and but to your point if you move me small and it stays on the site you'll have to build it obviously somewhere else other than where the school is so you take advantage of not working around the kids that they there or not moving them so that in itself is a site planning decision where do you put the school that isn't where the school is you know that reminded me of the uh you there's a note that the uh that uh those solar panels could be a big I think it said it could be a big put a crimp in the plans if it if it isn't dispensed with or removed or something was the how I remember at this statement is that accur yeah the some committees Recreation was saying wow that's the size of a football field so they see that aerial site as something different so that's something that you thinking outside the box is that something that we want to stay or is that something that changes and what are the implications of that uh somebody had told me it's in year 12 of 20 years I see and so is there a buyout situation and how valid is that uh it's like three plus acres uh when is Sharon so I I think that those are the kind of decisions you do in the first blush is like that's not for us to solve MH you know could we use it and that's the same thing Recreation might feel that way and then when you get to the last one before that we're communicating with the people who manage own you know uh have contracts on the asset to say what are the implications of this U so I think it's important to understand that if you run sewer to this and make all those Investments That there needs to be an outcome that's higher functioning maybe than that okay and there's actually to point there's solar on the roof of the auditorium which is going to need to have some work done if that's kept that's that's great well thank you and I and I think we're going to get into um in a little bit uh some of the site details um a little bit more I think as some some background but maybe for the next part of our agenda May you could sort of help us walk through I know we want to from Barrett and yes so that's great so so we haven't really started the mck process right um this is an informational introductory uh meeting and I'm so happy everybody attended because I'm learning so much and everything's becoming clear so we're on item uh uh Roman numeral three uh resources and information um and I just want to give uh Alexis some time from Barrett planning and Judy to hop if you if you want to unmute just a little bit more about how they're involved and why why we got to why we got our uh consultant so quickly sure thank you um so uh Barrett planning group is currently working with barnable County on a pilot program for a shared Regional Housing Services um program and this was uh funded through an allocation of the County's arpa funds and so so we are in year two of the pilot year one was a just a lot of planning and implementation and uh figuring out how we could really be active in year two um and one of the services that is a part of um our our role in developing the program is to provide all 15 communities with 30 hours of uh technical assistance for housing projects of their choice and so um this really uh these initial I think three meetings uh really feels like a perfect way to uh provide some support to uh to this group especially because you know as as you mentioned with a lot of uh kind of the background res uh research that is going to be involved with things like understanding what uh grants are available currently under um the Hy Administration and looking at you know some of the kind of financial feasibility considerations things like that that you know I know there's a lot of experts already um in the room but we can um bring some uh perspective to that as well so uh we are going to be assisting with the three uh housing team meetings so our next one uh towards the end of January the the runam muck meeting um will be facilitating and um leading that uh real brainstorming effort and then the the second meeting just as is laid out in the in the scope um for the second meeting it'll be kind of narrowing down and looking at some of those uh you know know the implications about what make might make something make a little more sense than something else or what outside resources might be uh make a lot of sense to look at so um we have scoped out how we can make all that work within the 30 hours I shared that um today with Mary um so uh we think we can certainly make that work and then um if they are uh a balance of ours um the county has a process that we're still working through for if there's hours that are unused from other communities uh how how that might be reallocated to communities with ongoing projects um so that may be of some support later as well um but uh so that is is what we're doing and um the community service hours that the 30 hours of technical assistance that is just one part of the program we we're developing a lot of um Regional uh resources as well um that we've been uh discussing and sharing with Mary she's the uh staff contact for the program and it's um it's been it's been really great so far getting to work with all of the communities I have to say this is the um the the biggest project so far that we're working with the town on so it's very exciting and it's uh I think made a lot easier because it is so clearly late out um courtesy of of um of the staff so thank you very much that's that's going to be great it's going to be very helpful we'll still have joint meetings of the trust and the community housing committee but hopefully the chairs will just recognize Alexis and her team and they can just take it over and what's nice but Bill said to me was like Mary you won't have to take minutes you can participate so that will be fun um next I I I whipped up a very brief summary of the housing production plan so we have a housing production plan that was approved in 2024 it's up to date um I you know I'm not going to go through it we can go through it more at our next meeting um we do have a hard start at 4:30 uh the Board of Health starts at 5: and um they they moved up a half an hour on their schedule surprised but anyway so anyways so but um this is I think when you go through and think about your ideas for housing I think all of them are going to fit in here a housing production plan is pretty comprehensive um and you know I'm just going to start with the first one you know who who are the people we need to serve with housing how what was identified as the groups that need housing in town well working individuals families single single person households seniors people with disabilities veterans and and military families people who are homeless or at high risk of homelessness so you know maybe that's everybody in town so don't worry about brainstorming to see we can use the HPP to guide us to prioritize things but when you're brainstorming just just think of what your dream Ed for the for the uh land is um next I'm going to go to Kathy Williams who's going to go through the site a little bit I'm going to ask Liam who's back in our TV room sure to share [Music] um the the map um that's the overall context map if we could do the um the base map base plan that shows a little bit closer up the next one Liam so Liam we're looking at at the we're looking for nope keep going going not that one that's the one okay you could zoom in that would be great everybody you have this in your packet you push that to this thing or no it doesn't the the um that doesn't work all right I think it's that one there it will be broadcast out to anybody who's watching so thank you for your patience you do have a lot of information in your packets uh a lot of good information um I did develop a November November 25th memo where I kind of talked about the different zoning uh of the existing zoning and also did a little bit of a site analysis that's kind of kind been culminated into this nice little plan that you see here so this is basically a 70 acre parcel so that's probably the biggest town-owned parcel that we have available for redevelopment in quite some time it was originally purchased in 1960 uh for school purposes so just to orient your oh if you could just leave the map up thank you just to orient yourself I guess this doesn't work to the left there is heading towards Route 6 uh exit 7 and going to the right you're heading down towards Buck Island and and Route 28 Higgin coll is the main road that you would be accessing the site on there's also a shared use pathway that's been recently completed by the town so people can get there by different modes of transportation there's also going to be a nice connection to the expansion of the Cape Cod rail trail uh just kind of going around the property um to the lower right there is obviously everyone knows where the police station is and as you're going counterclockwise uh to the right there and into the um top of the sheet uh that's all well protection land uh wellhe head protection land and there's multiple uh town-owned Wells that are located on that in the upper um left corner there is uh where we're barely touching or getting very close to Bayberry Hills Golf Course so there's a nice connection there with a large piece of town-owned land down chick Lane on the left uh is all residential in nature um at the bottom there on the left uh on the other side of Higgins croll there's those 10 Parcels that the town recently purchased for wellhe head protection and then as you go to the right uh it's rest of that area uh is residential in nature uh on the lower left there you see that you have the um Emy small Elementary School with the parking and the access off of Higgins scroll and then that giant football field worth of solar arrays that people were referring to and then over um to the right you have the for of madak keys with its parking and access off Higgin coll closer to the to the uh police station and in between there you have uh the different ball fields for the for the schools one thing that you will notice on this map is there is actually a large section of open wooded area on this property so it's not all developed um there's a lot of nice open wooded areas here so taking a look at some of the different site constraints as you get closer to um Higgin coll Road there's a smaller Wetland there that's been identified by mass DP as a wooded swamp and there's certain protection criteria there so anything within 100 feet of that would have to go to the Conservation Commission no touching within 35 fet and then no buildings within 50 feet so that's going to limit a little bit of what's going on there versus if we had that whole Frontage along hickin croll that we could develop so um there's also the concern that it might potentially because it's a depression be a Vernal pool so that's something that we're going to have to check in uh in April to see if that's those conditions are met and if that is the case then all those numbers double it's like a 200 foot protective Zone instead of a 100 foot protective Zone on the North side there where the yellow is um is tar Pond and that's a deep Marsh area and again that has the 3550 and 100 foot buffer to it but what you see there in the yellow in the hatching that's actually uh a natural heritage in a dangered species has documented this as a priority habitat for rare species so that's something that's very important and we're not going to be able to do uh anything in that particular area and you see all that blue that's around there that's really the surrounding area that's more of the critical landscape and the core aquatic habitat around that uh rare endangered species so that kind of gives us a good idea well maybe those are some places that open space would be interested in keeping uh and over in the right hand corner you might see a dashed line on the map and that's the thousand foot um radius from the wells we've been really trying to own and retain ownership of anything with the 1 th000 ft um of our wells um all of this particular site is in the R40 residential zoning District um and it's also in the zone two of the drinking water wells so it's in the aqua for protection district so this is obviously an area uh that we want to be protecting as Bill mentioned if you start talking about any higher density housing this is going to be a situation where we're definitely going to need to bring sewer uh to the site and then all the different benefits that might come from that um good news is there's no flood planes here so that's something that we don't have to don't have to worry about one little gem that we have there um so there's nothing really Critical with regard to soils or topography that are going to really limit um development on the site uh on the south side or I'm sorry on the bottom part of this across the street from Higgin scroll um that is an environmental justice neighborhood uh for a higher percentage of percentage of minorities and that's just something that we need to keep in mind as we U look at permitting different permitting requirements come about um when you're near an environmental justice uh neighborhood and as Bill mentioned and everyone's mentioned there is um the matak kees building does have the building mounted solar uh on on top as well so in your packet in that memo was also a brief zoning analysis that I had done and T taken a look at uh we do have inclusionary zoning so as you all well know uh so when you're creating uh five or more uh residential units or Lots we get inclusionary zoning it's a little bit of on a sliding scale but a maximum of like 20% our existing zoning really doesn't allow for any higher density housing uh we have basically one acre zoning in this area R40 is for 40,000 foot minimum lot size um we do allow for some things so it's like one unit per acre we do have some U ability to do congregate living uh and a we want to take a big chunk of 20 acre chunk of this that might get us up to two units per acre so nothing high density uh within our existing zoning right now um there is always a possibility and it's included in the memo of having a friendly chapter 40b which is a comprehensive permit through through the zoning board of appeals where kind of the criteria in your zoning and local regulations don't really apply but all of the state regulations do still environmental and building code and those types of things we've had some success I think in Friendly 4bs in the past things like habitat always does a friendly 40b uh they have a nice development on Virginia Street and obviously they're doing the one across the street at 1121 uh Route 28 um so Municipal Services those are like any of those Town services so if we wanted to have a library there a community center there or something those were all all the things that would be um allowed uh right now by zoning if we wanted to retain ownership of the building but then kind of rent it out um for different uses that's something that has been done like for the senior center they might have dances or balls or different types of things there but they end up having to get a um approval through the town Administration and the board of Selectmen for use of town-owned property that can be a bit of a cumbersome process if we're talking about a lot of these different uses being being done but if you're really looking um for it to be a town use that's some that's that's allowed in our current zoning uh recreational uses obviously if it's Municipal Recreation again that's something that's allowed in our current zoning through a special permit um and that allows things like um accessory uses to that so restrooms a little concession stand those types of things all our parks are U permitted through that type of process through Municipal Recreation so but anything that's like a privately owned entertainment or Recreation you know if you had a movie theater or a theatrical production or performance or concert hall or any typ of professional sports establishment um that's currently not allowed under our existing zoning so all things to keep uh in mind uh with regard to Economic Development I think you know as bill was talking about tournament play those types of thing might result in some economic development for our community but things like our typical things like retail or restaurants or hotels or stuff like that none of those things are allowed um in in our current zoning right now education is allowed anywhere in town uh as well as open space and and water supply um so depending on what comes out of this entire process there may be a zoning amendment process that's going on uh for this various components of this of this property keeping that in mind so just wanted to give you an idea what would be allowed with within our current zoning uh just so you kind of had an idea of what the heavier lift might be if you wanted to do something like change the zoning or have a um a 40R type um smart growth um zoning District being put there couple other things to keep in mind um is this is over 70 Acres so if we're going to be sub dividing it off like if you want to subdivide a piece off for the schools you want to subdivide a piece off for recreation and keep that uh it's automatic Cape Cod Commission development of regional impact so that's something to to keep in mind that we're going to have to if we want to carve off pieces and sell them or use them for different uses for different um entities then that's just a process that we're going to have to go through and of course the Massachusetts Environmental Policy Act depending on the type of development that gets on how much traffic is generated might trigger an environmental notification form or environmental impact report so these are all things that you guys don't really need to think about uh when you're developing your concept ideas but something that you know as we're moving forward and start looking at different things we might want to look not just at funding sources but permability and and the difficulty of that and that's about it so don't worry Kathy's coming to all our meetings be happy to looking forward to it so you could ask are you questions now or wait kind of diges read that memo very carefully uh but thank you Kathy thank you so just wanted to go over quick your packet this is the packet right now if you find that you want some different information or better information or whatever let me know and I will try to get it there's four Maps um uh the madaky utilization committee is working on with somebody to uh you know improve these Maps so they're easy to use we have the larger versions 36 by 40 or something like that yeah upstairs so um so there's that um also in your pocket is a memo we you have a memo dated uh January 5th there's another memo dated November 26th it's from Sharon it's a pretty good summary of some of the things uh that bill touched on S to process um I did find uh some reports um I think Kathy put them in us oh it's on these are online these are on so as you know through some of my emails there is a web page on the town's website on the madaky utilization project so it's just these are these are printouts of portions of uh PL uh studies that looked at the two schools that are on this campus and so those are in your packet um Kathy Williams found onepage summaries of chapter 40b so that's a good place to start these are on the Cape Cod Commission they have links to them uh so if you if you just gole Google this title Cape Cloud commission you'll come to this page and there's links to more information about chapter 40b and we have been successful in the they call Friendly 40b is at the local Initiative Program they get pre-approved by everybody before they go to the zba whereas the other type it goes to the zba and then we have to chase the project right this these friendly 4bs we approve them first the board of slackman actually approves them first the Board of Health everybody approves them first then they go to the zba um it's a very powerful tool um and if you are donating land right to a Housing Development you can put that as a as a firm condition you have to use a lip friendly chapter 40b you know what I mean you can put that criteria in it and we've done that the trust has done that with uh other grants and financing is made that a requirement so um if something is only possible through a chapter 40b it's not like the chapter 40b that's an aggressive chapter 40b with 300 units no you dictate because you're giving the land so you will dictate what goes on that l so anyways that's just the start of the conversation also in the packet is uh summary of chapter 40R so this is something that look at Bill's smiling Bill loves this I like so this is zoning in a way that the state wants and and and what happens is if you if you meet these criteria the state provide you funding to mitigate the impacts of that development so um that's something that uh that's a very simple way of of doing it it's something that's been difficult to bring to Cape Cod so maybe we're the ones that will do it um there's the zoning analysis from Cathy and there's some because we've we're already started talking about financial feasibility of things and the power of affordable housing to uh create Redevelopment opportunities in your packet is is uh print out from the housing toolbox that's managed by the state got a lot of really good information and you know what are the three things you look at debt equity and grants right it's it just explains it simply because you never know we might be involved in reviewing a performer of a a development proposal so that's good and also massw works has infrastructure programs it's just it's just a beginning so that you can you know kind of get used to all these terms because there going to be a meeting or two we're going to be whipping around all these terms um so that's that's all I have on that if there's something that any more information you can tell me now or you can email me and I'll work with uh you know staff to get you that information I know Bob had mentioned something about some kind of connection with the development of the police station in this land but um no um but if something comes up something you know that land is very sensitive um so we have to make sure that anything we we do doesn't impact any other previous development that we might have flagged that land a very complicated site you know where between resource areas the um location of the wells the existing development but it's I mean I I I think it it really is fascinating what opportunities it presents I I mean I I I sincerely think that there there are um a lot of ways to put housing on this site in in a productive way so I would look forward to you know when we share these ideas that it's a little bit you know daunting in that should we be limiting ourselves to looking at a portion of the site this entire site it's uh I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of options to pick from when we start looking at this so I think that'll be an interesting process to you know maybe have it facilitated and try to narrow our Focus down a little bit we did talk a little bit about like what other municip IP alties have done with similar sites like is there any and this is where you know Judy and Alexis can really help us are there other and it doesn't have to be in Massachusetts could be in Colorado who knows but are there other government agencies or Redevelopment authorities that took a complicated site like this and how how did they how did they reuse it it's it's something to think about we don't want to you know um we want everybody to have a good brainstorming session where all your ideas come out but if if it starts to be too complicated we could follow that path and kind of suggest some real world uh projects that went forward something to think about Lee had a question are we supposed to establish the next three meetings tonight we're going to establish at least one okay C because you all know how how it's my favorite thing to do is schedule meetings I'm like happy that you're all here I think our next tenative date was the 21st but there were issues with that right so I was polling everybody 21st versus J January 21st versus January 30th um January 21st is the um the date we have the highest number of responses so I I would like to go forward on January 21st unfortunately Karen can't be there um but I was hoping she could just tell me all her ideas and I'll bring them to the table so Mary not the 27 joint meetings no nothing on the 27th oh and that would be another joint meeting the 21st that would be our first our our number our first Muk Muk one meeting the brainstorming meeting so it's important to be there but if you can't be there you can write down all your ideas and send them in um and that's when I'm hoping to pass the Baton to Judy and Alexis and their crew um and have them facilitate a brainstorming session whether they're going to use the dots on the wall or what we'll leave it up to them um the professionals at Community see two key points one what would be the best location on this site and two what would be the most feasible type of housing to develop given the kind of funding that might be available and what the needs are we know the needs are many um but might might best serve the community yeah can have a mix yeah not just one answer I just I was just wondering whether Bill might be able to answer um is there a minimum number of housing units that would warrant getting the sewer to go there from a grant funding yeah it's it it's like a cost benefit so uh uh there's a project that 265 units got us two uh 2 million dollar out of massw Works who might have got more so uh the higher the count obviously the higher the award uh I mean I I wouldn't want to go in and say Here's a 30 unit development and ask for $3 million so uh it's probably uh that or more to get the trunk line down there so you know I I wouldn't necessarily think about that as much as you would think about I mean what Mary has put together in terms of what's in the HPP is great so how many units do you want to do there I mean there's traffic and and all the other impacts that would be a concern but you're right to lower the unit count to lower the grant award typically and it you know as Karen said you could mix it you could have single family homes somewhere along there and then that but that all counts together yeah as one development we're hoping that because the need for you know for rental housing you know the need for low and very low households is is extraordinary um but there is this feeling that um people have moderate income you know um need assistance too and with the Healy Administration they've embraced that they've recognized that need it's not just the very poor people who have been on social security for a while you know it's not just those households it's also working households um or households that retired with wealth you know they're starting to feel the pinch so hopefully the state with their funding will will ease off on that um priority I was on a a public hearing for the uh low-income housing tax credit program for the state and I let them know we've got stuff going on um and that we want to have a diversity of of housing with that so fingers crossed um so so to Kathy's Point uh what I've done before is I've just looked through all the massw works awards for the past five years you look at the description and it'll say x number of units for housing $25 million or 1 million so those are all on the massworks page but the Healey Administration actually has created a massworks type Grant just for housing so they separated it out okay an infrastructure piece so you won't have a lot of sort of examples there but look at the massworks pro website go back uh maybe to 2017 or whatever and then start oh it's manufacturing it's this it's housing it's you know it's a Down Town project but they're going to have examples and then sometimes in the narrative they'll tell you how many units if they don't then you can you know go online and find out uh and then you can start understanding of what the award base is that recently they got a little bit more difficult there were used to be some like wild $5 million Awards here and there now they're all back to the top is like four three to four and it's R so the the other question I had was with regard to timing with em small like if there's a certain area of the site that we're kind of like blocking off as a gray area saying we're going to allow Amy small to be built over here while the existing School remains intact that's going to take a long time for the school to get built there before we say we wanted to put our housing where the school is now because we're trying to put housing um wreck you know wreck fields and then something to do with maybe the gym or whatever on this particular site so is it is time timing of concern too of different different levels of projects that could be done um because of that you have any idea on that one that's a good point uh I had actually written a plan for this to give the board uh uh here's what you could do with the site and then you know clean slate and they could do was just to show the interworkings of different land use and how to pay for it that's a good point the school could be three to five years out and if you were to to build the affordable housing you probably build it where the school is I have I I have seen some Mass Works um do the grant for the infrastructure get that going and then the then the chapter 40b construction started so and I mean there was a gap of years so you might be able to tap into that infrastructure money while you're permitting the affordable housing just something to think of when you're thinking of the number and the location and that type of thing but what you want want to do with that though is you want to create a sense of urgency for the school project because you can get the sewer if you get the school out of the way so that kind of synergy means that if you get out of the way we can put this here and get a sewer project so there is that relationship but you're right I mean there is no other place for the affordable housing if the school stays there the there's wetlands in front of the madaky building and you probably don't want to put the housing in the back part of the site I've got some ideas but I'm gonna save it for the next meeting what save what I've got this great idea about that but I'm gonna save it for the next meee that's a mukan something to talk about it's so tempting all right so um so anyways uh January 21st put that on your calendar at three o'clock um and then I will start polling for uh meeting dates in late February and late March um with love a site visit Roby we'd love to be able to go over and walk the site is that something we should coordinate through your office yeah that would be that' be great bill and I have actually been started talking about that already um and coming up with a plan for that and I think between bill and I will'll be able to help you with that I've haunted house tours yeah yeah did we do we want to go into the building or just walk outside the auditorium and a gym are probably the only accessible parts and uh we'll see where we are on some of the video clips because they went through and took video of the building uh the report the starting I think was it this Wednesday remember yeah and so we might have some preliminary numbers not the full report by the time you meet on the building cost I I suggest you set the two i' set two dates and whoever can come can come do you know what I'm saying I think it's a public site so you don't want to be wandering through the school area while in session but you know I know it starts to get dark early but three o'cl seems to work with this this you need to post the meeting so it becomes a public meeting would the other teams be invited to Bill's Point um having this committee or any other committee Who's involved um and wanting to be on site having them actually coordinate who's on site and make sure that everyone leaves the site and like you said post the meeting and then make sure that we prob St we'll have some at the beginning of the day and we always go to that property at the end of the day to make sure that it's completely wrapped up but we won't have anyone there after hours so to get into the auditorium and the gym is not something that's feasible what we could do is uh send you to Recreation schedule so you go there when they in that was my question are we combining it like into all the different land use teams would be invited to one site visit so it's easier for you guys guys right what are you saying just go during basketball well I mean the the gym would be open you just don't want to be wandering through the building that's all you can't wander really through the building it it is locked it it is maintained specifically to the auditorium in the gymnasium and and if you go in when the building is open it's just a matter of making sure that all of your members know to get out before they close and set the alarms so right to make sure that we don't leave anyone behind because I'll get a phone call no behind own is an option I mean during the during when it's open to the public or not in school session I think as far as the Committees are concerned it would it would make sense to try to have the Committees go during a certain window that way you can make sure that you've accommodated everyone on your committees um right and right well all right so good so I'll coordinate with Roby and Bill okay and the last item is Outreach to other housing uh partners and invite them on the 21st for the 21st so my short list is the fire chief and the police chief I'd like them to come and uh describe to them what their staffing needs are um H um howich ecumenical council Yarmouth Housing Authority Hands of Hope and St Vincent depal and housing assistance Corporation provide services to our residents so I was hoping to give them an invite any thought to inviting POA or one of the other not yet okay not so POA is a developer of affordable housing we want to we want to hold off okay we want to hold off on that just um I don't think we're ready yet and that might disqualify them from Goa well to his point it might be a good idea to have somebody sort of interview some of those groups so I know uh would have to do that through like a a a some type of a request for interest procured process well I mean you could make a phone call to Paula and say we're thinking about this what kind of things would you think about uh the the most important thing about development teams is you want to know what you shouldn't do you know don't create the this type of zoning or make sure you have sewer or whatever so there's some uh development teams that you might be able to just have a interview with to say okay we were considering this and three the development teams now if Barrett Planning Group does that that's you know what I mean right so I mean you just look who who has filed 40 RS and 40 B and then you basically find your list and are you looking at the big people or the small people Mary I missed your comment on inviting all these different groups would they come to our 21st meeting okay yep they'd have a seat at the table okay to me I'm just thinking could that be better done in a focus group or something because if you have 25 people having a conversation it might just a thought something to think about cuz if have a lot of different people at the table I could we could do we could do it by Zoom I could pull that together well my thought I'm curious to what other people think yeah I you know and I would just throw out I I think the um idea that that we would have some facilitation at this meeting um it to me makes me a lot more comfortable in having some more people at the table and and we would be focused and you know it would be great to hear people's ideas and and but to be able to organize it in in such a fashion that we're not just doing too much of a a scattershot and you know some of these groups are great like we we've never sat down with the Housing Authority in a way that stimulates uh you know just the the type of um work between the town and and this Outside Agency to get kind of a meeting of the minds and um you know almost every time we do it it it becomes like a tense kind of a standoff or something so to have a a situation where we can more organically U bring some of these folks that are interested in housing in our community to the table have some professional facilitation and maybe begin to inventory uh possible leverage things that we can work on together um on a CommunityWide basis I I really think that there might be some value you know to doing that to to help stimulate better communication and and success for some of these groups that that haven't really found it so um I I I think if we had a structured process the idea that we invite some of these stakeholders um I I really think there's value to that I think Bob's Point regarding Housing Authority is good I think you should watch out for and I don't know how to diplomatically phrase this Regional groups who have Regional goals you have your HPP and you have your own goals there there may be people who are saying oh Yarmouth is a perfect place to put this and it may not be your goals so just watch out as you bring in Regional groups which I mean worked elsewhere the Cape is very Regional but sometimes people get involved in trying to find places to put things that other communities don't want right and and it's a good point that you bring up because how ecumenical council for housing they're I know they're they're located in in howich but they they serve a portion of Yarmouth just like St Vincent depal serves a certain person like they've they've got Yarmouth divied up that's why um but that right now you have all the groups that you have at the table and even the Housing Authority have some sort of direct U statutory relationship to the community so how how does everybody feel you want to have them just come on the 2 or do you want me to get a focus group with them beforehand I mean I think what do you think Alex do you think you could you could keep us in line yeah I think um it would be we we can um talk further about what would make sense in terms of um you know kind of who we might think could be helpful at the table to um and I appreciate your comment about um making sure that it's uh you know very much tied to the community um but I think think also we just would want to make sure that we have a sense of who actually like confirming attendance for planning um so we can figure out uh the best way to to do that because um ideally I think in person I mean a zoom option is fine if people want to join B can of 10 but this type of thing would be really great in person so just that does make more facilitation challenges if there's people that you're not anticipating so we can figure out how to do that well do you have some kind of upper limit on the sheer number of people or groups that are um not I I I wouldn't have um I'd have to talk to Mary more about space and um you know if they're sorry okay it would be eight additional people okay oh eight people yeah yeah okay that doesn't seem like too many to they can't bring their whole board they have to send one person that seems very very doable to me I'll put them in the corner No I um I I step aside with my request for focus group I just don't I want us to figure out how to have it be a focus discussion so it doesn't go all over the place okay right and they really truly do know our our residents in need so it's we're all there's a consensus on that now and I I talked to everybody all the time so very good I only got five names I'll ask you later for the other three can I ask a question the the form that's at the end of the packet from today it's it's nice do you suggest the different groups see this in advance and kind of fill it in a little bit ahead of the meeting or and and then submit one at the end for each of 15 ideas or a thousand ideas or many come out because I was I was just wondering is this something you can share with your oh yeah outside folks just to help them frame their ideas without the only thing is some of the questions are starting to be kind of like Muk meeting number two I agree yeah I don't think we're there yet Karen I I think what we're we're saying is that we want a brainstorm agreed before we go there that is more of an evaluative type of uh we're sort of jumping ahead well wait wait but but the point is no but the the way you use a form is in the meeting you type up the things you're going to talk about but then you go back to that project and you say is it grant money and then you fill out that section so in between the two meetings you're basically determining you know you're not going to know that there is a definite you know grant program for this type of housing that that's idea that you know that you wrote down but we just don't want to get a list uh so you have the meeting you put down as much as you can based on the knowledge in the room then you take the form and some you can can send them to some of them to me I know a lot of the programs and then you just start filling out the boxes so then you can get to the next meeting and say how do we Rite these things out so if you end up with 10 ideas you might fill in the oh this one has grant money uh I'm going to score that higher than I might score something else so both people are right and both Mary and Karen in the sense that the form is filled out to put the idea down but then as you go to the next meeting you're filling in the rest of it one right yeah and you you may not know if there's Synergy with another committee right away Alexis had a comment oh yes um just a a question with regard to the uh outside um invitees to that meeting so this group has now been given a lot of you know just kind of background information that does kind of save time going into the brainstorming session so um could we uh coordinate on we don't need to have an answer right now but just like figuring out how to disseminate whatever information might be helpful for them to have um in advance not to give people homework but no I did I just sent Lee and Alexis the the short list okay so it's it's just people that help our help with rental assistance vouchers we have they're constantly um helping to prevent homelessness in Yarmouth um and so they're constantly interacting with people who are in housing crisis so I I I think it would be valuable to have them uh come and say what are your what are your dream plans what what kind of housing would really serve the people that you're dealing with um so and I think not come very helpful um if between now and the 21st um and I'm sure you and are going to be talking about how you'd like to structure us when we get there I'll look forward to that very much and um I I think that this has been a very productive session I know we do have to get out of the room um I I'm not sure I don't really see any general members of the um the public um but if there's anyone that had public comment that um is on our screen um I was good time to put your hand up we don't have a lot of public in the room but you know I I'm really looking forward to maintaining that high level of transparency Community engagement throughout this process so that by the time we get to Muk um hopefully we can have as much vetted in in you know public awareness of this process the thoughts behind it uh what might be the potential for our community and um I think right that's something we'll be working on as well but uh I think get used to seeing the public comment and um our public Outreach and hopefully we'll have as much transparency as we can from beginning to to end and you want to think about what you sent out don't send out this entire packet all right exactly exactly yeah exactly so think about what what is important for them to be informed of yeah and um probably the summary you did of the PP would be helpful but right and I think maps of the S what else at the minimum need to know are I don't know just if you said them like I have pages and pages and Pages here do that to them there is a quiz on the agenda I'm sorry Bill wasn't valuable material but um I just think that would be overwhelming and they might not do the homework oh you're right say I can't I can't deal with this and a lot of the stuff that I gave you is already online so you don't really have to it's all good through the emails it's all good it's good material I if you want to check with Greg or Greg and pal are members online do you have any comments quick comments you might want to make Greg I'm good on comments other than this was a great meeting uh a great jumping off uh place and I'm looking forward to the 21st thank everybody Okie do p no comments thank you so much for everyone's time thank you P so should we uh oh is Joanne here Joanne is here there's Joanne Crowley go ahead Joanne hello everybody um for whatever reason I couldn't get uh promoted um but I've I've attended the whole meeting I wanted to thank everybody for all of their hard work here and I'm I'm looking forward to uh participating in the next meeting so thanks everybody very good thank you Joanne so I guess we need to possibly adjourn this meeting at this point huh since it's after 4:30 anybody want to uh make a motion to adjourn the community housing committee meeting motion to adjourn and Josh seconds all right uh Greg you want to vote on that the adjournment motion I pal I Josh I we I I the motion is carried this community housing Joanne and Joanne okay sorry sorry Jo forgot theable Housing Trust motion to adjourn Some Mo second all those in favor by I so we're jour