the week to to review everything over so I don't know if you heard all that yeah heard some shouldn't have had that chocolate it makes me thir all right now welcome everybody to the regular State meeting of the Yarmouth Conservation Commission uh this is the meeting for Thursday May 16th 2024 uh this is to formally advise that as required by General General Law chapter 38 sections 18- 25 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and act relative to ending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed into law on June 16 2021 it's extended by chapter 2 of the acts of 2023 the yth Conservation Commission will hold a public meeting at the date and time noted above the public is welcome to attend either in person or via the alternative Public Access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of Yarmouth website our first order of business is um an enforcement matter uh let's see Dayton and Matt grew 317 we Road this is an unpermitted vegetation removal regarding regrading and structures within the buffer zone to a bordering Vegeta Wetland and pond restoration plan review good evening Lynn Hamlin and I'm here with Matt group the property owner um this came to me as a request to prepare a restoration plan for an enforcement order um I went out with the the surveyor and we delineated the edge of the Wetland using um both plant identification and soil borings which you can see better on the site plan than you can on the restoration plan because I covered up the line with plants um some of the clearing was done in the Wetland so when I did the restoration plan I concentrated the Wetland species for the topography on the clear cleared area so obviously the more Wetland types species were done lower and closer to the water and as we moved further to the house then we could use um species that were more facultative um there were seven trees removed I believe was what I was told we put 11 back um all the plants are native what I strive to do is um create diversity and good wildlife habitat um I try to make it Pleasant for the property owner so people are less apt to want to cut it down that's always been my strategy um and I think you had a chance to look at it and maybe I'll just try to answer questions if you have them all right sorry that's fine uh Britney any comments questions um the only comment um I had is that there are two of them on there that are I don't think native to Cape Cod uh the con color fur and The Fringe Tree um I think we would prefer something from The Cooperative Extension list or something more native to the Northeast I think those are a bit a bit too far from the cape um they're not really native here if you wouldn't mind switching those two but other than that it looks like a great plan um okay I mean they are natives maybe not Cape Cod I know Bill Clark is a big fan of the conola fur I mean do you guys see conol fur Fringe trees around in Yarmouth I don't I I don't know about them myself um the conol also willing to take a little bit of if Bill Clark is all right it's not it's not up to me it's a board we're not we're not doing uh it's not like we're doing a forest of so I guess I can look with that but also just to make you feel better those trees are beyond the 50ft buffer so what I did was more um strict natives closer in the 35 foot buffer zone um there's a little um access way through there so when I got Beyond 50 ft then got a little creative but I like diversity and um well what's the native what's the native uh con specific of that or what's the uh what would be the native equivalent I it is native but Spruce but the spruce is um so riddled with problems they have bugs they die they're really hard to stay healthy and Bill Clark if he ever took a course of his in his cap card Community College um programs he always pound at the table use K cifer they're healthy they provide the same kind of habitat it provides I was trying to mix up deciduous and Evergreen I think it's a great tree plant Choice can I just ask a question about him I've never heard of that kind of fur you know that doesn't mean much I mean I they're probably a lot of fur that I haven't heard of um you don't have a picture of one or anything do you pull it off of my phone well I don't know if I can see that and also why is what you said it's native is it native are you saying to Massachusetts or something I mean it's not native New Eng New England it's okay to have D I mean I'm with you about the baby with the bath water it's a great tree and um and the the height of the tree the mature height of the tree is what they're Big Trees a big tree okay so you couldn't substitute like a white pine or something it could White Pines also have problems they in in um Nickerson State Forest they took out all the white pine because they also got bugs the conola fur is a tree that's hearty it's an evergreen tree it provides the same basic habitat requirements and it's um I I try to put things in that are going to live and be successful I just I'm not familiar with the tree so I'm if there was an objection on the part of Britany I might not have a tendency to approve to vote vote for it um unless I knew something more about the tree and why another tree couldn't be substituted that's all well and and yeah bottom line Kake C is not like the rest of the Massachusetts it's a pine Barons type environment originally and so you put a tree from New England it's not going to match the kind of local Flora the insects and so forth that you want to get on the cape and I can see your rationale so I'd go along with that rationale but I want to understood that we should not be allowing that kind of stuff if unless you have a uh good reason which sounds like you do and also it's beyond the 50ft buffer where you would allow construction yeah so you mean our area excuse me it's still not a natural yeah to our area Bruce or whatever I mean it's I said I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bath water it's just I've been doing this for many many many years I've taken a lot of courses in it I think Britney will support me that it's it's a my undergraduates Wildlife man we going to that's not we're not competing here but I mean if you don't like it we'll change it no I said I with it but I wanted people to understand I just I just think that um I I find you know Britney need to be pretty expert on on this type of thing and if there's a concern and a request to change it to something else I would be inclined to go along with that excuse me I was speaking white F and um no hold on and you know there's this there's a there are tree now to make a big deal about this but there's a lot of trees that have been introduced to the area that lately they've been saying we don't want those anymore you know um for I think it's like uh the tree and some others that I've seen in the news I don't know if Leland Cypress is part of that whole whole thing or not but I just would go along with the the agent's um recommendation can I speak sure chairman yeah may I speak what would you like to see planted I mean anything native to Cape Cod I think would be preferable but um there's tons of options of them can be beautiful but that's what I would prefer as an [Music] individual change that think is confusing to look at that I don't have my list with me Blue Spruce or not blue spruce [Music] um black Spruce whatever you want I mean does that work for you I have to I have to go compare it I I I yeah I'm I'm trying to I think [Music] it's I'm just I I don't remember if it's on the I mean I can get your Revis plan tomorrow and find something on the list let's do that okay so we don't have to belabor this okay yeah I mean I'm I'm good with it um you know we can find something different and okay in fact I'm I'm willing to work with you a little bit and we'll just do it as a note you don't even have to just it's that simple just I I have it as a note substitutions so we can just so we'll just send an email that replaces it and specifies these three trees to be replaced by okay okay all right sounds good um anything else do we want to talk about the other work or just the restoration plan uh oh that's right um $300 unpaid in terms of the um let's see the gravel the patio chicken Coupe trampolines um and gravel driveway I'm not prepared to talk about any of that because with my understanding this is just for the restoration plan okay so uh we did with our got the enforcement over here someplace um have restoration we address um don't have anything about structure so right now the the gravel driveway did we go over the gravel driveway last hearing yeah so it didn't make it into the enforcement order um but in the minutes from the last meeting uh we spoke also about the unpermitted structures that were on site and we wanted to wait until we had an asilt plan to see where those were and how large they were to um consider next steps for those items after a previous permit 1953 was closed the 50ft buffer line along these walls was meant beyond that was the work limit line so it was not supposed to be crossed and since then the patio trampolines and driveway were in place after then and so we we delayed handling that until we had an ASU plan to chcka has been there for was my mother's and had you always accessed it through that drive that road's been there for 50 plus years the road didn't show on the asilt plan from the other permit when it was closed not the was the gra the gravel drive was that a it was originally dirt was that what it was yeah it's just an access for just switched over to gravel now right yeah it's been there you know that's how we access those overgrown bogs well I mean I would say you at least need to permit the change the the change of the driveway and the chicken Coupe and you I would also say is that working all the compared to this p m because of the the the one that they closed out then that's say that there's nothing to be between the 50ft buffer and the W yeah this is the as built from the closed permit um showing those walls as the only thing at the 50ft buffer line well I mean you could you could if you just turn the turn the trampoline 90 degrees you're out of the 35 at least but I think more importantly you need to permit the gravel driveway and the chicken CP since those are right there I mean what about the patio that's within the 35 which this one here I that's what says on the and that was not included in the original right the patio acced to the note am I right yeah the patio is unpermitted right now well I mean the patio is in 30 in the 35 foot so I'm I'm not inclined to permit that at all so I would say move that I'm not real thrilled with the idea that you have a chicken cou sitting 5et away from the Wetland but but it's got to I mean it's got to be per I would say the patio needs to come out the patio or the the chicken cop needs to be permitted the gravel driveway needs to be permitted so there's no enforcement order for this the enforcement order just no we can put a new one out there but I am I'm taking notes so so you want to um what kind of an application how do you want to deal with it or you just want to is it easy to deal with it through an enforcement order or would you want to some sort of filing let me know what you guys want and we'll take care of it like I don't need to yeah so this this enforcement was for that Disturbed area and we just needed some more information through this as built plan to get this ball rolling so it depends so for permitting it would be either an RDA or an noi to permit those you issued an enforcement order just discussing it you can resolve it faster without chances of appeals or direct I mean if you just yeah we can revise the enforcement order or issue a new one um with the requirements um we just didn't have I didn't have the distances away and we didn't know where the patio was lying um so we needed this as plan to continue even a letter that's willing to fix things so even a letter orine yeah I mean I would issue a new order a new new uh don't don't try and go back and um amend an order that's already 3/4 of the way done at this point or it's it's actually been done um I would issue just issue a new enforcement order uh that directs The Patio to be removed and the gravel driveway and chicken coup to be uh if I'm going to make them do that though it's like through what kind of permit I mean they're we can we just do an yeah the dirt the the road was dirt there before right and the cop's been there for a long time and we can turn the trampoline to get it out of the 35 you do allow decks up to 35 yeah so I I turn the I turn the the trampoline so you're out of the 35 mhm remove the patio file an RDA for and after the fact RDA for the gravel drive and chicken Coupe chicken CP okay and we should yeah that's fine I'd say a month to do all of that I've got the plan so that's easy to do now yeah so a month to to file everything uh remove the patio and file the after the fact um RDA that make sense yes for yeah Britney you're good with that I'm good with that I just um did your parents have the chicken Coupe in place for it just it's just not showing up on any of these as built plans um so how long do you say the chicken coop has been there for my mom's been passed for uh it's been a while it's it was hers I mean it's it's not even my land any of this is on so sold okay we'll just leave our an RDA then I'm confused what do you mean it's not on your land who I know this is on my land whose land is it on parents none of it's on my this you oh yeah yeah this is you this is you it's all cranberry B I just think we should be worrying about the Disturbed day area and I'm going above and beyond what I'm planting now we're going way back into patio trampoline what are these what are the harm to these being there so we have a 35 foot no disturb Zone um and all of those those two items are these are all in that 35 foot no disturb Zone that area is meant to be fully vegetated to provide a buffer to the Wetland to fil to increase water quality and prevent erosion and it serves many other purposes that's why we have the 35t no disturb and having things in there um decrease that function so we would like to see those gotta I worry about the um the chicken what goes out of that chicken coupon into the Wetland what would go out of it it's raised it's all what is what is the uh we use the no with the RDA I would explain what they do with the chicken residue chicken poop chicken so I would put that all on the RDA so there'd be a management protocol with it all right so Britney if you could issue a new new enforcement order we'll we'll hear it uh for next next time we'll we'll um what was your date what was the deadline let's see so so issue the the enforcement order we'll we'll ratify at next next meeting uh but it just need and you're good with the conditions that we're looking to do for the for the permitting and remove the patio permitting removal the patio and we just need a date of a month a month from today I'm going to line it up with our filing deadline so that'll work it's a filing deadline we don't have a meeting on July 4th so July 4th July 4th the deadline it's two July 3rd I know but we don't have we don't have a meeting in July 4th so yeah but that's two months two month we're in May oh sorry so you want the RDA if you want the r day heard on June 20th it has to be in soth or no 6th sorry like a it's very two weeks it's pretty soon so you have to file by the 6th in order to be heard on the 20th yeah good okay all right um any further discussion on that so we're not voting on The restoration part we are voting to approve the restoration plan okay is there a motion to that effect so moved yeah so moved all those in favor all right opposed carried unanimously thank you all right uh next order of business no you already done it we just we just had to approve it that's all they were approving the plan uh next order business a continued notice of intent for scd83 d242 town of Yarmouth BPW 99 Buck Island Road proposes discharge of Highly treated eent from the water resource recovery facility into recharge basins that may impact bordering Wetlands land subject to flooding and a Riverfront area by increasing water levels short of title next time thank you Mr chair uh Jeff Colby Public Works director um joined here by Amy ball uh from horley whitet and carollyn heison from CDM Smith appreciate you hearing this uh continued application it's uh been a work in progress and that we're dealing with d in a process that uh uh none of us have uh experence experienced before so this is uh first of a kind uh and we have some additional information we'd like to share with you as I mentioned uh to others in the past uh we're meeting with DP staff every other week to try to advance our groundwater discharge permit uh we are meeting with them again on Tuesday and it would I think be helpful for us to be able to indicate that we've reviewed uh this most recent uh monitoring plan information with you and uh you know be good to uh we understand that you need to have some more time time to uh digest the information uh in this uh you know pretty comprehensive uh document but it would be helpful for us to tell DP that uh that you're supportive of that information so uh with that said I'll turn it over to Carolyn um yes so thank you very much um so I realize you have not had a lot of time to see this groundwater monitoring plan um we just finally finalized the approach and monitoring locations with d on the eth um so we are moving as fast fast as possible so we want to um just walk you through today uh what the monitoring plan looks like both for groundwater surface water and then also Wetlands um and have you uh a chance to ask any additional questions um so uh if we go to the first slide this is just a reminder of cck oh I have to push a button you don't have to but you can okay I guess you can't oh there we go okay so just a reminder this is part of the comprehensive Wastewater management plan uh we do have a water resource facility that's 100% designed complete and um we've already started groundbreaking for phase one of uh the collection system and we're looking at um permitting uh highly treated uh Wastewater to R turn it to the aquafer um and protect the soul source aquafer so if it's not working then I'll just do it no there we go okay so um and as you saw before the uh extent of the simulat a groundwater Mount we are asking for a a 37 MGD permit um so the line there is the extent of impact and this is where uh D Wetlands folks have directed us to look at potential impacts to Wetlands within that area if we move to the next so this is the groundwater and uh surface water monitoring plan so in general the groundwater and surface monitoring plan it's a feature of every single groundwater discharge permit um and they generally require three Wells one up gradient and two downg gradient as you can see we have a lot more than three Wells there's actually 14 monitoring locations we're going to be taking monthly water level locations at all 14 of them we're going to be putting continuous water level um meters in three locations and so this basically tells us every four hours what the water level is so you can see response to rainfall you can res receive responses to change and flow at the plant um and we're going to be taking water quality samples at five uh groundwater locations in addition because we are so close to surface waters here we are actually going to be doing surface water monitoring and this again will also be monthly in conjunction with those groundwater locations so there's seven locations where we're taking measurements so particularly in the bogs and the streams and that helps tie in how the how the groundwater um is responding to the surface water since it's one big um system here on Cape Cod um and there's one continuous water level location um and um uniquely here five uh water quality locations since the point of all of this is to remove nutrients um we're going to be making sure that the nutrients that are entering um anything that's left over it's a very small amount anything that's left over entering the stream we know how much um additional nitrogen's been removed by the sediments as uh the water flows out through um the bog and Marsh sediments which is one of the things the Mass estay project said is that there's a certain amount of reduction in those so we will also monitoring um that as we go along um and we are going to be sampling groundwater sampling be done quarterly um at these locations primarily for nitrogen and phosphorus and then D also requires um uh some volatile Organics um and sometimes some metals but we're going to be doing bu Organics um annually until basically they indicate that there is not a concern there and then we will no longer have to monitor there so that's the groundwater and surface water monitoring plan and I'm going to hand it over to Amy to talk about marlands so um this image here is just sort of a blowup of that last plane we saw we've met out on site now twice uh with DP and um about a month ago with DP and with Britney to identify some locations of where monitoring would happen along um transects within the wetlands um we've selected these based upon you know the existing Wetland system and the areas where DP appeared to be most concerned about you know any impacts to the resources so there are three um transects along ples Brook U one two three uh north to south and then a fourth one directly south of the um infiltration basins in an area that appears to be isolated but it may not be isolated but it will still have a um a slightly different picture because it's not directly adjacent to the stream um in each one of these we would be adding two additional monitoring Wells these would be um hand installed like a pomet type thing that would help us correlate what's happening directly in the Wetland with all of the monitoring that is happening for the uh groundwater and surface water monitoring and then within each of these transects we would have up to six plots where we would be um reviewing the wetlands see if we can do the next one so this is sort of a a you know a cartoon version of what the uh monitoring transects would look like uh they'll be approximately 50 ft wide and in order to establish the the plots we would first do a a wetland delineation like any delineation and then set up transect or set up um monitoring plots both upgradient and immediately down gradient of the Wetland boundaries on both sides of the stream as well as a a monitoring plot and immediately adjacent to the stream and this will give us a sense of um what the vegetation communities are when they're in the you know the immediate buffer zone what they are within the upper edges of the Wetland boundary and then what they are um very deep into the Wetland itself um the monitoring wells will be then you know installed just downgrading of the Wetland boundaries in each of these with a um a correlating staff gauge within the stream itself the um oh sorry not quite so this is following sort of the new D Wetland lineation and uh data sheets um as a model I'm sure that you're all familiar with the the sort of old way you would do um data plots where you'd have a concentric circle of you know a 30 foot radius for trees and Vines 15 for shrubs and saplings and 5 ft for herbaceous in this case you will be assessing the vegetation in the entire swath so at least 50 ft wide and then the the width or sorry the depth of the um each of the plots would be variable we're going to try and tie them using survey to the Contours in these areas so it'll they'll have to be Fields um assessed for each each of these areas um and then we will stake them out with you know bean poles or you know something that will be more permanent and GPS locate those because we're going to need to be able to find find them twice a year for 5 years um to try correlate what we're seeing in the vegetation the next um so as I mentioned we're going to establish the Baseline conditions um in each of these plots with a delineation the wells and the staff gauges we'll collect the water levels um we'll establish some photo stations in each one of the plots so that you can correlate um you know visually the conditions from year to year um and then we will document the soil conditions at the you know as a part of the Baseline condition over the course of 5 years unless there's some dramatic change you're not going to find that in 5 years you're lucky if you'll find it in 10 or 15 but we'll document that just you know as a as a Baseline and then that Baseline monitoring will happen for at least you know one growing season one full growing season um prior to the uh Wastewater um water recover wastey facility um goes online water resource recovery facility might be water resource recovery facility Water Resource there must be an easier anagram for that it's even difficult to say wrrf so um I don't know this is the next slide right so uh after that goes online then we would be doing you know twice annual monitoring not unlike what you would do for like a Wetland replication area Wetland replacement area where you monitor all the vegetation um basically do a data sheet in each one of those plots and then um you know assess also the the um the health and vigor of the plants and we were going to be focusing on Plants um within each of these they'll document the species in each of the plots but um focusing on facultative species any Upland species like a you know the Pines that may be you know on hummocks um and you know those will be the ones that will maybe be the first indicators if if there's anything that's that's being affected by you know increased water levels um again we photo document everything at those same stations um and then confirm the Wetland boundaries at the end of each growing season to see if that's still you know what you would assess as a wetland boundary um and then this is just a a sample of the type of um table we would be creating for each of the plots that you know documenting the you know the type of species the tree sh Vine herbaceous the common Latin name the region one indicator status we'll use the 2020 status FR um for the purposes of carrying forward because we know DP will eventually approve that um and then the water death intolerance um is something we have a couple of different documents on on they're not it's qualitative it's not quantitative per se um and the type of community in which it's growing so um based on that coward and classification so a you know a pelestan forested wetland a pestan shrub swamp um a mergent marsh and the three um communities along ples Brooker two are forested one is forested in sort of trending shrub swamp and the third is more of a shrub swamp condition so we'll be able to see those um different types of communities in those those particular transects I think that is oh then we have annual monitoring of course we would collect the data you know twice the year and then report back to the Conservation Commission and mass DP who will also be interested in this information um on the not only the data that are collected but the hydrology of the plots we will take into account if there are drought conditions or particularly wet seasons over the course of the growing season um and then correlate the data which is something that would would work with um the Smith and the Wetland scientists to determine you know is this is this MO is is the data that we're seeing and collecting is that um consistent with the modeling that was that was prepared for this project um and then identifying any potential impacts with other positive or negative to the Wetland plant communities um and then you know report back to the Conservation Commission probably annually you know November December time frame to discuss the results of our our findings and um discuss whether there's anything that we may need to um take any action on and then after that initial 5year period we would um in conjunction with d with the Conservation Commission determine whether the um long-term monitoring would need to continue annually twice annually whether that's a good idea for a longer period of time or if it can be um you know the schedule could be changed up I think that's about it it was rather uh fast quick um overview of what we've presented in the paper form that you all have and um we'll turn it back over for questions questions from the board right now how many I'm sorry how many of these Wetland mon monitoring areas you think you'll have well if we have six N I think the one in the isolated the the southernmost the um ples Brook 4 pb4 there will probably only be four in that one so we're looking at about 13 plots very that's right I I was just saying I had really no questions at this point why don't you have a fourth off to the Southwest I think I know the answer but well um Caroline going have to be uh to the Southwest where the Cranberry Bogs are well so there are no there are some Wetlands there right cranberry not much it's yeah I mean south of um the Cranberry Bogs are really off to the Southwest are you asking about kind of to the southern area the the so basically yeah done and are you I think it was it was largely because we had taken a look at the plants over in here yeah no right in here like that this area all that area here that's I mean part of it I think is cuz it's only between the point like the impact from the um discharge effin isn't expected to impact the groundwater there as substantially as the locations that were selected so the groundwater is really mostly going over to the southeast right and do you have any idea what the difference is and percentage wise how much goes through any one of these sectors or so um there's the mound yeah which is actually the increase in water but is not necessarily where the affluent flows so I do want to flag that so the affluent is is actually going to be going into plashes Brook and into Swan Pond and about 30% of it will go into a third of it will go into plashes Brook and 2third of is actually going to ultimately go down to Swan Pond and the time of travel on average to ples Brook will be 240 days and Swan Pond is longer than that and I can't remember the number off the top of my head so uh they're the transects are also not just the areas of high impact from water but also from if there is any change in nutrients in the water they would impact those plants in that area that answer your question you bet okay um indicator species or Keystone there's quite a bit of controversy over the last 30 years but it's changing about how they look at that and relationship to you're doing a pretty good cross-section you're going to get everything but how do you pick out in this approach how do you pick out what is going to be the Keystone or you think you will ever come down to having picking out those well the the species that would be the most focused on would be those that are more facultative not used to you know wet feet all year long or for a longer period of the growing season um I know that one of the species we had discussed was the Atlantic White Cedar that isn't in the zone of influence in this particular site uh but we anticipate that this type of model um this is the first phase of of potentially eight phases correct sure okay yes in the big pict there are more sites to come and so um you have a lot of time to figure it out yes we do have some time to figure that out but I I do think that um you know and some of the araceous species may be something we'd want to keep an eye on too yeah you know certainly there's a lot that goes into us into this and you know a lot about it but the thing that I wonder about is um you talk about collecting data and monitoring things well what happens if you see things going a way you don't want it to go how do you pull back on this or do you what happens that's that's yours so that speaking of the future phases um that is basically what we start to look at so we're going to be looking at additional phases So eventually there'll be additional locations and if we do start to see a negative impact um we would start shifting flow to other locations and you do that through the uh treatment plants or something yes so they the plant will there'll be various um pumps to move water water around to different locations um you know right now I'm pretty confident we're not going to see much impact because the site is currently in use for uh a discharge part of the year for um the septage plant um that flow is going to be used for uh reclaimed water um but right now there's different there'll be piping to move flow around within the community so yeah I just wanted to add to Caroline's comment so this is only one portion of the flow in just our first phase more significant amount of flow um is really targeted towards Bayberry Hills so this is the immediate location of the treatment plant and um and uh infiltration beds that'll you know be most convenient but the largest portion of the flow in phase one is actually headed towards the Bayberry Hills um that's roughly a million gallons for the first phase and the permit here was what 37 something like that so probably 2third of the flow is really headed towards Bayberry Hills and irrigation there or subsurface recharge up towards Mid Cape highway so headed towards bber Hill this is the stuff that confused me and I won't go on too much but in the form of being piped there yes correct yeah okay all right and and other discussion you have is about groundwater and this is um water that's discharged and kind of works naturally through the soil and and and how deep down would that discharge be is that a is that a ridiculous question no it's so we are actually the way it works is basically there's big sand beds and the water gets poured and it just kind of filters through that unsaturated zone and gets down to the water table the water table here is 4 to8 is8 sorry 8 to 12T roughly below the ground surface and then it just starts flowing naturally towards um any surface waters that you see um anywhere you see a kettle pond on Cape Cod that's basically the groundwater right and um and depending on you know where it is and the time of year flow in plashes Brook will be made up of flow that is coming from plashes pond that's being released by the cranberry bog operator um it might be released by if it's a really rainy spring all that water that's in that subsurface at right next to the um Brook is going to be flowing into that Brook there um some of it will come from the recharged effluent some of it like I said is actually going to flow under and keep going and head towards um uh pl's Pond okay so all right thanks three dimensions very good thank you any other questions not for me no yeah um maybe Jeff will answer it more than but I'm curious as to why de is interested so much in the um distance between their in bottom of the infiltration basins and the groundwater so it actually comes from the it comes from the title five regulations for septic system that has says there has to be four feet so they just use it as kind of a rule of them so there's really no R what's the actual is has to be it's I I think that it's there cu the idea is like if something your plant were to fail and you were to release a bacteria or something there' be four feet of Separation um but it's a highly treated plant so recovery zone or something what you might say yeah yeah yeah DP is very conservative in their approach so I think we're seeing this on all fronts yes I'm not trying to attack them no that but that's where it comes from that's it comes from the the um Title Five um one quick question do you foresee maybe Jeff you have to answer this but do you foresee any more changes coming from the D or are we at a point where we understand where they're coming from and that's what we're working on and we won't see anymore well that's a good question i' I'd say that we've spent a lot of time on this monitoring plan I think they're very comfortable with this uh and so our hope is over this next meeting and certainly by the one after with the that we are are very comfortable that we'll be getting the authorization to advertise for the treatment facility uh we get closer every meeting it's a lengthy process and I wish it was a little quicker but it's where we are and and we're making progress anything else anything no thank you anybody in the audience anybody on Zoom well you people seem to have all your questions do you need more questions and more time or or do you want to go ahead and vote I'm okay to vote personally it's pretty extensive a lot of work done put into this um I'll make a motion to that I would rephrase that motion to approve approve the project with special conditions yeah in the form of a fiveyear order of conditions take the motion first then I'll you're requesting a 5year order of conditions just to be clear H what' you say well just they're requesting a fiveyear order of conditions soe order just be a specific motion well so my only question of that is like I understand why you're doing it um but is there a reason why we can't just issue a threeyear and then have you come back for an extension there's no reason uh well because I think it's the fiveyear idea was that then it takes two years to build the plant and then we do three years of monitoring so a threee would only really get us to one year after the plant construction question yeah was my idea H you don't want to do it we could do it I mean for you I don't care so wiggle five five years it's been as years to build I do is there a second second all those in favor wait a minute I think I had a question we have I have to know what the motion is again please it's to issue order of conditions for 5 years uh with special conditions my only question is uh under what condition you talked about uh coming back every year for the report which seems to me maybe in the first year or two that's fine but after that what happens or what kind of emergency or change in conditions would make you come back to us more often I I suppose if we found something that was you know unexpected unexpected and then you know if that were a condition that you know if we find something even in the spring that we would report back to the Conservation Commission and I guess what I'm asking is something to the administrator maybe that you could come in and and discuss it more appropriately twice a year three times I'm not too sure what that might be so one one of the conditions will be that if monitoring reveals something even modestly alarming that they need to come back um and report it and report on how they're going to move forward I think with a monitoring plan that's kind of expected if they're going they're hoping not to see anything the goal is nothing changes but if they are finding something they will let us know and they'll have to submit how they're going to take care of it great well even if they don't find anything is it good to just come back and say everything is going fine yeah so that's what the monitoring reports will show us that they should be revealed every year I don't expect if there even were to be any changes to see something in a year or two it would be much that would take longer than that to find changes right it's been moved is there second second I already seconded it has it all those in favor opposed carries unanimously you very much hand the paper don't lose the paper going down here people are you Jeff are you in your office tomorrow yes can I give you a call Yes actually we'll put that we can just put that together that way at least we have something no here you can oh and here's a paper clip too oh a paper next order of business is a new notice of intent for s83 -2 431 uh Arnold be Chase zero great Island Road filing for emergency sandbag reinforcement barrier and Coastal Dune barrier and Coastal Beach L Coastal storm Flowage um we have a request for continuance apparently it's not as quite as much of an emergency as we thought then um woodo group is asking uh for a continuous from May 16th 202 for the June 20th it's uh unfortunately some of the great Island homeowners association board members have scheduling conflicts on that evening they're unable to attend um reschedule the above reference to oh sorry there you go I had my thumb over it uh to June 20th 2024 is there a motion to that effect so moved or a second second opposed unanimously next order of business another notice of inent for uh Margaret Awad 911 great Island Road proposed settlement replenishment within a coastal beach coastal Dune a land subject to Coastal storm Flowage okay so that's getting contined keep what number what do we on Mayflower right no 911 great Island oh sorry this in case we need to refer to the plan we have one physical I'm Bob Perry Cape Cod engineering working with the aads at 911 great Island Road this location is on the west side of the island and it has the site itself has been the subject of a previous Coastal management project it was fiber rolles a portion of that held up okay on the North End and and the uh Southern half of it dissolved fairly readily um some of the debris from that fiber Roll Project remains there anchors and there was a geotextile like a marifi 600x fabric used and that's bit embedded into the beach it probably shows up in some of the photographs that we provided this project is um for the moment um the aads are concerned about the dramatic Beach uh erosion and the related bank erosion the winter of 23 24 really hit it and I have we we resurveyed it basically to see we had about 8 ft of loss on the south end here just in December and January and that Boulder you see the glacial erratic was right up against the bank in November so uh they have consulted with their own island group they've consulted with Stan humph they've consulted with me and at the moment they feel that for the value that it has which is limited they would like to add sediment to the toe of the bank so the quantity that we put into the application is 600 cubic yards and it would come to the site in the same way that the other project was accessed which is through an access road that exists on the north um and from there the sand would be distributed through this Zone I don't think you're going to see as much sand as the total but we put in a 600 cubic yard maximum and I I would say that for the frequency of those additions it would probably be related to storm damage and the sense of it is that these beaches on great Island have been burdened by a system of groins for 70 years probably and while those GRS do have a positive effect in some areas that have negative effect in others this particular location you can see it's scallop scalloped out Beach to our South is healthy and it will be of interest to see um if the additions of sand which again some folks don't have the resources for this here's a case where R do and there's an interruption of the sediment literal system that this will help to offset there's no hard structures uh proposed no anything except for sediment and because we did file for a certificate of compliance for the fiber Roll Project that was in 2008 what's connected to the issuance of that compliance certificate is the cleanup of the remnants that are embedded in the sand and it really isn't a job that can be done by hand so the loader that would bring this sand out here will also tug out these pieces of that project where there's steel cables and fabric and all that so we have an opportunity to put a machine on a beach and clean it out replenish the near shore or near Bank area well above the high tid line and um you know see if it inhibits to some extent the loss of the bank for now that's really what we're dealing with we provided a Civ analysis um there's a lot of Cobble and rubble and slipper shells and you name it on this beach the bank material is a combination of some fill and glacial material I think this isn't far from the old C isan hotel which burned down sometime in the 20s and the sediment here is is very um typical beach sand but with a rock quantity and it is is our hope there was a a comment in the D comments that you get when you get your file number which we do have that that they talk about grain size consistency and there just needs to be some realism with that this sediment uh is at least most conveniently sourced from from an Upland Source we don't have any dredge material that's a ailable if we had dredge material or if hyanis Harbor ever wanted to have an additional disposal site we're permitting this as a sediment disposal site but we're going to be I think fairly consistent reasonably consistent with the grain size that's here but it's a little bit fine that that's what it showed of in in the Civ analysis but we didn't were not sving bold or um rocks and cobbles and gravel but we're just acknowledging that it's there so um we don't want to be placing fine sand on this beach it'll be medium to coarse with a fairly good color for brightness not orange and um we just want to get that across because Upland sources aren't perfect and Depp has a 10% silt quantity in their guidelines for Beach nourishment you won't find anything great than probably 2% in an Upland Source here so that's where we are on this happy to take questions thanks Bob question for the board I do have one when we were out there if you could go to some of the photos the high tide line from the the debris I mean that's high high there but that's a storm tide yeah that's a storm tide but it did it did seem that it was still a little higher than what's marked on on here it's probably more like the two we have a mean High tie yeah not the not the High um the the federal government has a high tideline criteria for jurisdiction and Massachusetts has a mean they're about I think they're slightly less than a half a foot apart on the charts we have a lot of high tides these days um we're seeing a little bit of sea level rise we're seeing storms and wind but we're that you see that uh I think it's codium that's piled up along the shore there with the slipper shells even that um you know we're we're probably just about to I don't think we'll get out that far with the fill and that's not um you know we we've got the numbers for the beach so we know where those are well that that last photo showed the old corer logs way out there way out well right there and it shows on your um plan here that the sand we'll be going out farther than that to basically where the right the seaweed is yeah that that location there um is where the erosion was slightly less that's if you look at the overall North End of This groin Bay between the two groins is probably a 600 foot distance that's a good distance is much higher on the North because we do have the development of sediment that's piling up against that North groin so we have less damage but we're not nourishing in the hole I think a lot of our sediment may be claimed by that hole but that's really not our property and so it is it it's above high oh we're well above high tide yes all right misleading being out there seeing the slipper shells and everything but I did know that that was storm tide it's high high which is what we're getting all the time not even a storm it could be an astronomical high but but that's still well above the I said we're getting them all the time so it's not yeah yeah you're noticing that huh yeah well get ready yeah that's all I have anybody else yeah um so you're you're protecting this area with sand it's enhancing the sediment deposit of the beach which will provide some limited protection and certainly it is it is problematic because of such a beautiful location with a beautiful house all rest of it but it seems like you know um how long do you think this sand it it first of all how long will a sand 600 cubic y yards of sand plus um uh I don't know I forgot my other thought but how long do you think it we weather dependent I I think that we have an applicant that's been watching her there Beach get pummeled and they're just they've asked us to do this I mean I've suggested Alternatives core uh fiber lifts sand lifts they're different than fiber rolls they're burritos they have some Mass to them but if they break they're just going to dispose of their sand but that was an aesthetic issue and so the periodic addition of sediment it has two values I think it provides a sacrificial measure of protection that a weak storm could claim some of it a severe storm will claim all of it yeah that material could raise the beach and cut down the frequency of incursions into the fill if this practice were to be continued technically there should not be any downside to additions of sediment from an Upland source on this beach if it were to go on say for the term of the order of conditions we can evaluate it take a look um it's no different than severe bank erosion so um there won't be any nourishment between say June and September because they close the is into everything and I think it'll just be as needed and I I would predict on my own experience here you could find the sand deposit persisting for months but again it's weather it's weather yeah and and and when the if the sand goes out when it goes out it goes into Louis Bay well it goes to the beach its initial location is to the immediate Nearshore area and it will then be distributed detrimentally I don't think so okay if you if you look at you know there's a dredge Channel offshore here and going toward hyenes harbit a little more there's more boat wake on calm days with a high tide there's boat wakes that are affecting the beach um I don't believe that quartz sand properly um acquired from a borrow condition which is pure glacial clean has any negative impact on a location like this okay have a question about the groins you you mentioned them you kind of went from one way to the other you said that they get in the way and then you said they do some good things first of all I'm trying to figure out where the grins are on this um we have we have a groin to the very far left right see that and we have a stone formation it's actually partially buried because it has built up so much okay where it says existing Stone grin way to the right these are licensed chapter 91 license 176 and they are they cut both ways okay I know when we were down further um towards the gates on the other side of the wooden bridge uh when we were down there I remember way yeah I remember Rick Bishop asked about getting rid of the groins and that's I guess I'm playing the Rick Bishop uh card and I'm just wondering why we don't interesting a good question um two things there's probably a a very strong debate about their efficacy and overall while you do have a hollow and a hole developing you have a buildup on one side and rins if you were to propose them today they are always going to be coupled with a nourishment requirement that they be filled to an entrapment level some of the old groins detach from the land and then if they're going to be maintained they need to be reattached and maintained with sand in many ways what what we're doing here with this fairly small volume is we're accommodating what would be a a mandatory requirement for groin maintenance adding sand on the causeway I'm I'm not dealing with that here but um think in my own experience overall on the south side of Cape Cod we have some very significant negative effects at the mouths of the Aries and to the east of those estuaries but overall an example of dennisport and Yarmouth from great Island all the way to Bass River if you didn't have those groins I think you'd have a lot more trouble I have a followup are you planning on um planting any sacrificial grass on this to try and stabilize it I don't think it's going to stay there long enough long enough I really see this as Beach nourishment we were doing a dune I could see it but I don't think it's practical and and you say you don't think the Sand's going to last there depending on the weather six months or if what would be the frequency of your replenishment well I'm saying as as the applicant with an order of conditions chooses to check in with you because no activity is going to occur otherwise if they were getting 6 months out of a dose of 600 cubic yards and let's say going into the winter season they chose to nourish again I could see this as once per year at the most I would think twice and applicants can become discouraged also if it gets to be too much yeah well we were out there at a pretty pretty low tide and it was pretty shallow offshore there from all that erosion there and that's exactly where it's going to go well that's it and and uh marginal increases I mean if you look at the Wetland act Coastal beaches are significant to storm damage prevention because they buffer the next hierarchy of the the coast which is the the Dune or the Coastal Bank or the salt marsh and this is nothing but beneficial uh components toward when we're talking little these are minor um increments toward supporting the interest of storm damage prevention and flood control and if we have an applicant that wants to do this we can try to talk them out of it and we always talk to them about the pros and cons but here we have a case where somebody would like to add sediment and they've they've already done the soft solution that they find just isn't working and they added sediment to that and now it's just sediment and I guess my only comment would be that uh this is area that's deeply eroded is pretty small comparison to the total length of their land I mean it's significant but that if they were to put in plantings or something it might even it out to that if you get to the crest of the Coastal Bank it's very well vegetated it's it's gnarly but it just Cleaves off because it's uh gravity that's working but my point is this is quite an inundation this is quite a incur what's the like a a a concavity yes and compared to the rest and if you could overcome that and make it more even I'm not oh we're thinking about it believe me there's concepts of break Waters and um uh it's really long term if you look at that southern end yeah the groin the groin to the South is is having an effect and I I think it's fair for me to say it's being looked at okay okay anybody else Britney um do the aads own 921 great Island Road as well that is open space and um the great Island realy trust is the steward of that okay I did not notice that it overlapped onto did you include them on your application yes okay uh we've got Mr Arnold B Chase's signature on our application for that lot for this lot um okay and the only because I know nhp will ask what is the slope of your the front side slope it's probably one to five or so I mean it it's going to change as soon as the water hits it it's going to be Steep and um it's stylized has to be I bet it'll be shallow truthfully because when you add this you try to compact it a little bit and not going to be as perfect a shape as you see on that plan okay and the only other comment I have is that if you kind of have an open-ended frequency in mind I I would probably would like to see a condition limiting it to at most twice annually um does that sound like well if we don't if we can't work with that we'd come talk with you um for example it it is claimed ridiculously fast um then we'd come in I don't know if it would require an amended order but if you term that condition for example no more frequent than twice a year without conferring that would be fair Ed what do you what do you what does the board think just the amount if it's more than if it's more than three times it seems like an alarming amount of sand but I am generally supportive of the concept of beach nourishment it just three times seems a lot I mean you're going to have to come back to us no matter what I mean you're going to have to let us know that you're that you're nourishing that you're nourishing anyhow uh so every every time you do that I think notify time the it gives the the ability for you to say no that's enough wait so I I think as long as we have that discourse I no problem with that so that's twice a year year or as needed um as allowed her request as yeah or as as permitted I guess would be the the better way to say it pending prior approval of the or since there is no there will be nothing in the summer from those months it seems reasonable I doubt it's going to be two I mean you're going to have don't you have you're still going to have time of year restrictions for for uh flounder too right just wait till we hear from nhp yeah that's what I'm saying that could take care of a lot of this most of that term of work time restriction is probably already restricted it'll be April to September April to August but we haven't even got that yet so we need that from them and it is only the northern portion of this area yeah and you you did apply correct for we did yes they did yeah it's where actually where the birds are is where we need it the least and I but right now we're not talking about segmenting if if they had to get in there in April to June they' talk about bird monitoring and try to bring somebody along you'll have to add whatever nhp comments come in what whatever they do that's all thank you okay anybody in the audience anybody on Zoom [Music] yes anybody unless anybody has any further comments or questions from the board would somebody like to make a motion to approve the project uh pending with special conditions uh pending um the testimony we're going have to continue for for solely for the right uh nhp comment but actually should I do you want to wait and close it then I'm sorry what is your question do you want to wait until we get an HP comment to kind up to Bob I if he's comfortable taking it full sale then I mean we're just gonna such a straight guy it's customary I hate to say it but we'd be happy with a with an approval contingent um but then you would have to reopen and if there was something really my only yeah my only concern is like have a problem with you we can't get you to vote yeah but what would you do you'd get the nhb comment letter bake it into the order yeah you'd be voting on the order next time anyway as long as nhp that let's let's just continue for for nhp comment because otherwise potential trouble yeah otherwise we may end up this will be the time when nhsp goes back to thre Monon reviews and now we've closed the hearing no buto I realized that that we we're waiting for them we got to go till next two weeks from now anyway all right so that's June 6th 6th uh would somebody like to uh make a motion to continue to June 6th uh and solely for um nhp comment so moved there second second all those in favor I I okay thank you right and we'll see you on the sixth yes you good good good question thanks Bob uh next order of business is another notice of intent for SE 8324151418 good evening Roy owski wrs [Music] engineering um representing J of drain the owner of the property um there's an existing stairway above mean high water Pier um Boat House on piles and a floating dock n this isn't it's all licensed um what we're proposing to do is repl the stairway in kind the pier in kind but raising It 2 feet and then driving six new piles underneath the boat house by lifting up the boat house driving the piles and putting it back the framing of the boat house fine um plan to do this um basically from water in with small equipment not you can't get a barge in there so we're going going to use most likely helical piles that are hand driven off a tripod um and then basically put up with an encasement on them um the house doesn't weigh that much so it's not a big project um during this process it was identified that there was a COC that was not finished um that actually Mr Perry filed but in the process of buying and selling the house the owner thought it was done so um he's been working with Brittney to get the fence remove the plantings done and everything that was asked we believe the tea taken out of the dock um we don't see any disturbance to the marsh um in this the marsh sort of fringes right around the work limit um and uh know the docks you know we're not doing anything with the dock or anything out there it's meets the license requirements once we took out the tea and uh at this point we can answer our questions or concerns from the board about B basic project questions from the [Applause] board well I I was out there on the site and noticed walking up and down the stairs which were pretty rickety there were cinder blocks underneath there can can we have those removed and um some sort of ground cover put in there and protect it until it grows up to C we' be happy to have it conditioned yeah that way so it's obviously the old old steps before they put the old steps in yeah it's been he he him and his brother purchased it not too long ago and I think they've done it you know as soon as they found out that you know about the plants and the fence and all that kind of stuff they they Steed right up and they're happy to improve the property to your satisfaction going going to the plants um do you have pictures of the fence there it may behoove them because it it is on that's a SE it may beho them because it is on such a sharp bank that if they're going to be watering those to put some sort of silt sock or some something along the outside of that fence to keep everything from just draining right down because right now it's just bare ground and it's there's nothing to keep it from eroding down if you're going to water all those plants to keep them alive just a small little I don't know a waddle put I you put juk matting down if you're yeah Juke mat that's fine something like that whatever whatever you feel is fine they're really receptive to to that kind of thing that's that's all I have anybody else there's a note here that says the shellfish survey is needed is that still true we went to waterways and they um approved the project and they mentioned that if the commission wanted we'd be happy to do some contribution for shell fish um we didn't they W didn't require a shellfish survey at the meeting oh they sent me a memo today about their meeting and they said they voted unan unanimously to accept con contingent on the replacement of the pilings and conducting a selfish survey prior to receiving a permit all right that's fine that's kind of backward so I think originally it was just to be clear you're just replacing all of these pilings in the same footprint yeah I don't see what the Shelf usually we wouldn't require a survey if we're doing in the same footprint so I don't know they're they're uh putting in new pilings though yeah but they're taking the old pilings out just taking the old ones out put new ones in the same holes right in the same spot so I don't know why you exactly you're if you've been before that board lately they're kind of uh not very they're all talking on different different paths I was there Monday night and it was very difficult to get anything across in a professional way that was stood and I think it's just because um the I forget the lady's name she's on it you know she knows exactly what's going on but some other people just say stuff randomly and maybe that we can clarify that and if it just seems like that's a a pretty big expense for nothing yeah so we'll have to confirm with natural resources on that because we're the permitting well I was at the last meeting but not not the one where is in their memo but yeah I so I I mean I I don't don't I don't see the use of doing a survey shelfish survey if we're if we're taking the piles out and putting piles right back in again and are you replacing all of the pilings or just some of them um all of them except not the ones holding not those two okay um it was my representative at the meeting stated explicitly to me that that they wanted a contribution for shellfish they didn't say anything about shellfish not doing that you in the minutes yeah I kind of it's up to you but I don't think it's necessary now we've we've been through we were we did this what 20 years ago we had this we had this argument and conversation it's like I don't think that that's again what do you it's the same print why are you why are you making people put shellfish in for a place where there's obviously no shellfish because there's piles right so I that's just no that's that's wrong I'm I'm sorry oh um I may have missed it you're doing this from the shore because it's too shallow to do this I don't recommend bringing a barge in there um just CU I was going to ask it that it be removed during low tide but I mean if the you know he hasn't chosen a contractor if the contractor wants to do it you know the conditions are in there and my notes as well that it can't ground out it's all in the performance standards that's as I'm fine with that as long as you're just the the condition is just the barge Camp isn't allowed to Dr ground out so anybody else Brittney anything the only other thing that DMF commented um it looks like the current float is very very shallow and since we are upgrading the entire Pier um would you be considering float stops you can't there's only two piles there's only two piles so how low but you don't show the distance how low how shallow is it at low tide it's an existing licensed Pier the existing license says and I can pull it off my drawing it came out exactly I know it's licensed but you're rebuilding part of it we're not we're not we're not touching that and it's an easy float too you can't put float stops on it float stops um it's not so why can't you put flat re building it it has to usually rebuild with two more piles we'd have to get a new license first of all you'd need more piles and you'd need four piles and you can't support support an easy a regular float is a single structure easy docks are just pieces of plastic that are stuck together with those little kind of Notch pieces so if you tried to support it at that distance it would just bend in half got five on the outside and about two and a half y just that's their common I agree with them but if you can't do it without more pilings then I guess it's unreasonable you can't do it with that kind of dock either it and it says that's why it's a they have an easy float you know that's why that when they turned that one it was unstable we made them put it back to the license okay I got a I got another um special condition it looks like it's been left in there all winter long can we put a special condition that it's removed yep I was on them about that and uh I they explained it to them that it can't be left in they have um made arrangements to get it off there and I told them they can't store it on their property in front either they have to take it away um no that's all anybody in the audience anybody on Zoom any further discussion or question among the board would somebody like to make a motion to approve the project with special conditions so moved second all those in favor I oppos cares unanimously you caught up yep I'm caught up uh next order of business is another notice of intent for se8 3-24 35 Donna Martell 60 Grand View Drive proposed construction of Pier ramp and 200t float in a coastal Beach Coastal Bank land under the ocean and land subject to Coastal storm Flowage good evening Royal Kowski I'm representing um the applicants are the recedo family who is here with me um the owner of the property who's in the process of um she's still the owner she's selling it to these people um is Donna Martell GM trust she um has owned the property for uh 40 45 years 60 the 60s um in Hurricane Bob 19 was that 95 I had argument about it last night with someone but 9191 91 cuz it's the Year my son was born there was an existing licensed peer that was destroyed and she just over time didn't have the resources and time and just never put it back so the license lapsed um there's still evidence of the old stairway um down a little platform to the water in the location where we're proposing the new pier um one note is is that if you look at the original license for the pier it showed it in the middle of the lot they never built it there um they licensed it there they never built it there and the reason they didn't because the farther you move to the East the deeper the water gets there's a sandb bar there so when they were going to build that one they noticed it was you know it wasn't at a good enough depth so they moved it over here and built it um and we don't I don't have any evidence of what they actually built or how far out um but we're meeting the town by law in terms of length from mean high water depth at the end of the pier depth at the inside of the pier we had a shellfish survey done by John LEL um who represented at waterways and this is a very abundant shellfish area it was one of the highest percentages of shellfish it's noted on the plan in the table um and to note he also did the shellfish survey for the pier that was built a few years ago to the west and and found the same things and I guess his his his main point from a resource area is that these peers are not any detriment to shellfish cuz there's just a huge amount of shellfish here and there's peers all over the place that was basically I'm just paraphrasing his statements to waterways for the board um we you know the one comment I saw from DMF about the floats is that she said the flotation on the bottom of the floats was below the level um all floats on Cape Cod are built with roughly a 6-in flotation tub um protruding below the bottom of what we're calling the bottom so there we're showing in a foot it's really about 6 in that's just our generic drawing drawing um so there is no because of the the 16 steps of the flotation there really is no shadowing as they were talking about letter we didn't really understand it um waterways didn't seem to care um but I'm just notifying you u in terms I saw that comment there um the float will be um removed in the winter uh cuz it's a very rough area and um the construction will be done um from a working bar large and from Land um for the stairway Etc um we don't see any detriment to it and I I believe the we don't we don't need to request a waiver because the bylaw says you need to construct the pier as close to the center of the lot as possible and since this is where the old one was um and it and it meets the requirement and it meets the requirement for distance from other docks we we feel that um it is as close as possible and I can answer any questions at this point questions from the board um what's the um what's our required setback from property line 25 it's that's the 37 that's a uh 91 okay requirement as well 42 feet is what I have scaled yeah I got close to that to each other dock what's our record5 75 plenty there there's a if you look on Google there's a big that whole area is a big sandb bar and it drops off drastically at the edges so it's kind of where it worked out really well there's a s right where ours is the float is is a soft bottom like you can sink in foot and a half just by standing right there so it's off the sandb bar where it drops and and we do the the length of the dock from mean high or mean lowan high mean high so the length of this dock is longer than 80 no it's not I don't think so it's 80 ft 80 feet from mean low water you have marked oh oh okay sorry didn't see that Arrow didn't see that Arrow so that's a 1 to 40 1 to 10 that's what screw me up okay what material are the pilings um we're going to use either composite or green heart using the using the right scale does help do you condition the um upper part of the pier to be non CCA also above the water or not like the um material for the decking stru no the structure besides is just the files have to be non CCA I'm just asking for my question most of the contractors don't use CCA anymore just because of the overall rules yeah they should there should be no CCA so did we add the if it's more than three in I think now we allow our support pilings to be that if there are no better just so you know I'm doing the largest Wetland restoration project in the North America and the entire CCA for 10,000 pilings we're putting in for it's down Louisana IND so it's uh what they're I I was just reading the plans today and I I thought it was kind of uh ironic that it's you know funny yeah but we do allow them now um can we can we with this one we can put float stops at the back end of the float because it doesn't yeah their comment I I could not see I didn't couldn't see your your depth but they do meet the depth requirement umf com front end it does you do a plan you could put the distance not within the pile cuz I did not see that um that's 2 six to the bottom of the float and then as he says there's that that well I mean every float you've ever permitted only goes to the bottom of the float so it's not really you know that's that wasn't the because of the it's only this much I took a picture of one at Bass River Marina yesterday just to check you know and it it's like 4 in on a regular float that the flotation and we can build it we can even build a flotation in it but the problem with that is is it raises it does raise the raise it up and that's not you can't get up on it out of the water then who swims in Bass River why would they need to get up out of the water this is the the where everybody goes um water skiing and everything I you could do dock starts right here I hope not anybody else Britney no nothing else audience Zoom anybody on Zoom somebody like to make a motion to approve the project with special conditions I will I'll second is that Paul or Jack Jack I second B sorry all those in favor I opposed car animous thank you thank you you uh next order of business or certificate of compliance we have two COC requests one for SE 83134 Vivian Chrono 3 2 Tasmania drive and one for SE 883-2255 constants right 23 Circuit Road uh both are easy certificates I have a a motion to issue the coc for SE 83-1 345 and s832 45 so moved second all those in favor I opposed carries unanimously Pro Circle the COC approval next order of business and approval of me meeting minutes for May 2nd 2024 I read them and I found them excellent okay is there a second second all those in favor I opposed cares unanimously oh I don't hand we have a request is this coming so this is from the um C it's not CPC is it Community Development Department is leading the Chase Brook Park restoration and pedestrian bridge it has been permitted we had some environmental justice meetings this is on um Route 28 connecting the old Yankee Village parcel the West um the chasebrook park and um mil Creek Park together in a cohesive ecological Park we're in Grant application Phase right now and further permitting and um with a lot of the grant applications they ask for match money and so they asked us to they asked me to request $25,000 from the conservation fund to go toward this project it involves invasive species removal and restoration of native species in addition to um educational signage with interpretive signs and a pedestrian bridge connecting the parks and some erosion bank erosion control with fiber rolls so they've made this request for the conservation fund they have some other um funding sources as well it's an interesting parcel because the funding sources that they have are can only be used on each specific parcel so it's diff it's very interesting um so they've asked for some money from the conservation fund how much money do we have in the conservation fund be me to that question me too let me pull up the exact amount sitting closer than you are do we have 25,000 in there yes we do that's all that matters I think we have sorry hard to find this one we have $56,000 in there I'm sorry how much we have $56,000 in there currently how does it get how do we get more money in there we don't have an income into the conservation fund at the moment it used to be allocated by the board of selectman at the end of each year they have not given us money in several years so we figure if we spend all of the money we have maybe we have a better chance of getting more money through the to the conservation fund we can also ask for donations that's that's an awful government way of thinking yeah this is um I think this goes back to a question I asked um Karen green about the last time that money from the town was contributed to the conservation fund it like 1987 yeah like a long long time ago yeah you said a few years I thought it was yeah well that was a few years to us oh it's only 10 years mean I guess I don't have any problem voting in favor of but the thing is you said there was other matching funds coming out of somebody else's money in town yeah so it says we're using some money from the land bank maintenance fund and some CPA money that may only be used at the Yankee Village parcel um and there's the various amount of money for both of those it it only has the total in those I'm not sure how much they're contributing What's the total amount that they need for the Chase Brook Park project it's the budget right now is 1.2 million okay so we're the grant applications we're applying for are for $500,000 plus okay what's the matching requirement total it it differs for each um grant that we're the one that we I think some of them I don't know the answer um I will have to ask Nate weton he is leading all of the permitting and Grant applications on this project um me see I hear an echo well regardless though I mean obviously this is what they're asking so obviously they must be hitting the minimums that they need in order for the matching yeah so with those other two funds with our contribution we would be meeting the match requirement for the Swig application um which would be one of the ones for up to a million dollars so have have we recently meeting the conservation uh commission used any of these funds in the uh for any other purpose lately yes you recently gave us $10,000 for the fragm management project that just started and that's and and that's um part of the C CPC contributed money to that and all yeah so I got money from CPC cdbg and the conservation frund for that project but there's not a long history of using that money right I mean it's sporadic it is sporadic we use it um for very one year we used it for conference attendance um we've used it for small projects like this um it was used for the frag mes project beforehand but I think it's good to use it for projects that we're doing that especially like restoring native species and doing invasive species management because otherwise it will it will just it's great for match funding because the usually require a small amount and then you can get the rest of the budget for a project no money is being added to that and not that I know of no so it's when the when the money's gone it's gone when it's gone we'll have to figure out how to get more when don't we start figuring out how to get more now you sit on the street corner with a cup what yeah well Paul are you going to do a bake sale maybe you're going to cook a make B yeah I'm pretty good Baker too could probably make like 40 bucks I think we would have to sit 40 more than we have have already though right well that's that beat standing on the corner with a cup we would have to make a case um to the select board and to the finance committee as to why we need money in that fund and I think it's a good we have to do if they have all these goals for us um coming from the open space plan we need money to do those things so I think yeah can and we can also I mean if people want to make uh gifts to the Conservation Commission this would be the fund that we would want them to but Britney we'll we'll be addressing this in the planning activity you expect to have I'm sorry what is your question will we be addressing what how we spend this money could get and if there are even like you just said these are the kind of things you would like to do yeah we I mean I would want to do projects but um we can't do projects if we have no money so I think the first goal would be be to make a case to the finance committee as to why they need to continue inputting money into this fund but my point want brainstorm about what projects we should and how this you go about this and why and so forth you the planning session yeah I agree with that sorry do you have any idea where the if if it what is true if I have the date right back in 1987 that was the last time money was put into this fund you know where that money came from I don't I I can like get info for you I just am not very good at using munice so I work with John Mar and get a whole background for everyone yeah yeah I just wonder if it was like a yearly contribution from the town into the I think it was yeah I think it used to be an annual contribution don't quote me but I I thought they used to give like an annual like the selectman as part of their budget would give an annual you know sum I I don't know what that was but they gave us an annual sum at some point and cuz it it used to be a lot of money in there it used to be a lot of money now it's dwindling that's probably why they stopped because it wasn't being spent well been but but we are we are limited as to what we can spend it on too so others got money like the uh plant on Buck Island and so forth that they they were grabbing money everywhere so maybe some of it that's grants though yeah so for those grant funding you need match money didn't the selectman just approve their budget uh more money in their budget too so maybe they can send us some money that way well there's a lot of money that was I mean the um Chamber of Commerce money went way up from like I think it doubled or more than doubled 100 to 200,000 so I mean there are other people who are getting more money groups I think we have we just have to make a good case for why we need the money and I think what Jack said is true we just have to come up with with projects the cost of those projects and say I you can sit down and and you know come to as a group come up with a with a list of projects that we would like to try and do I would also think that if we coordinated with some of the other conservation you know land conservation groups in town what they're doing and how and why we want to do our share and come forth with a more of a full-blown uh type of we did and collaboration approach you might want to look back in the records I I think Kelly came up with um and I don't know if you were on the board at that point I think Kelly came up with a itemized thing of of stuff she wanted to do in the town we've done this several times I think it's kind of like a yeah I know goals and objectives goals and and I know I know Chase Brooke was one of them but there were a couple of other little ones that I'm I'm trying to pull out of my head but so you don't we had a lot of like um you know things for trail for trail Improvement Trail interpretive Trail signs um certain certain small type of you know ecological studies that sort of thing so well doesn't they do plan to have that some of that the um Recreation oh yeah they do and I do know that natural resources came to us uh um for cost of materials for redoing couple of bridges at the John Cilla I can never pronounce that park there we did close by where they're going to put all that influent yeah we did um there was something for um the Blueberry Patch we I think we gave money for the Blueberry Patch maybe six six or seven years ago yeah yeah I think so at the town meeting somebody mentioned you know being more aggressive with frag midy and I think we might want to take advantage of that oh you know that that was because that was one of the other that was one of the things that we had originally talked about again five six seven eight years ago uh was the frag Mighty working working in tandem with uh historic and there's somebody else too I forget but it was something to to improve or to basically restore the and historic view over on thra Shore Road right where the the rock is but yeah going out cuz we have that I remember that you remember that I remember and I don't think I think I think the the last I remember the Historic Society wanted to enjoy the view but they didn't particularly want to pay for any of it so I think that's where and the neighborhood just wanted to and yeah the neighborhood just wanted to mow it all down so that's up to you anything else oh you got we have to move to vote so we can do that so so uh would you do you agree to uh commit that money and do you direct me to issue a letter to that effect so moved second all those in favor I I opposed nobody's oppos yes not opposed oh he's giggling he's giggling at me he's giggling I'm about to sign it they're okay okay and you got my email about the next three years I did next three years I come up the stre going to stay on what I email problem nervous sorry I did that fine I'm good with that two two at a time there I'll never do that again is there any other business not reasonably anticipated would you mind throwing these off would somebody like to make a motion to adjourn so move all those in favor hi oppose We Stand adjourned at 6:56 p.m.