##VIDEO ID:EhCxQW-QFXs## all right welcome everybody to the regularly stated meeting of the Yarmouth Conservation Commission uh this is the commission meeting for Thursday December 19th 2024 this is to formally advise that is required by General chapter 38 sections 18 through 25 in pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 an act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed into law on June 16th 2021 as extended by chapter 2 of the act of 2023 the armouth Conservation Commission will hold a public meeting at the date and time noted above the public is welcome to attend either in person or via the alternative Public Access provided above uh again this is the meeting for the Yarmouth Conservation Commission uh Thursday December 19th 2024 is there anybody uh making a recording of this this hearing I see none all right um our first order of business is a request for a minor plan revision uh this is SE [Music] dwelling good evening Mr chairman members for the Reco my name is Kier and hey I'm a land surveyor with the BSC group representing of the owner of the properties uh Denise and Joseph champagne uh we're here tonight to uh look to modify a plan that was previously approved by this commission um earlier this year uh the in general it's pretty much the same thing in that it is a single family residence on a lot where the resource area is the flood zone there are no Wetlands within 100 ft of the property um we are proposing to um enlarge the house somewhat and to add a pool at the rear of the house uh the total amount of grading hasn't really changed it's still in the same location we have provided swes and um trench strains and uh slopes along the property lines to make sure that we don't have any water running off the property um we had done quite an amount of grading back when we originally submitted this to make sure that the suffer water stayed on the property and you can see the uh the swells we have along the entire property um other than that I'd be glad to answer any questions that you may have right questions from the board Britney anything is this shed is this area relatively flat for the shed to be placed there the shed is going to be set on Sona tubes so it's going to be elevated okay and the um swes have been calculated for the new coverage or were they just originally for to contain the the water that'll come off the slopes yeah just there for the water coming off the slopes I I think that's the question you asked me I'm sorry sorry that's all thank you okay is there anybody in the audience have any comments questions on this one anybody on Zoom raise your hand digitally uh I see none unless there's further discussion from the board would somebody like to make a motion what are we doing here uh to accept the uh uh plan revision for the plan dated uh October 29th 2024 I will is there a second I'll second all those in favor opposed carries unanimously thank you Mr chairman thank you members thank you right U Paul could you handle the next the continued notice for um we uh we Road Way makes you more comfortable this is a continued notice 108 83 to 2456 call R for dorine and Harvey Wright 370 where Road propos removal of Culver SL stream Crossing within land under water bodies um thank you acting chairman um in any event I don't think we have anything to add I Miss D rienzo came up with some additional conditions I made a minor modification just clarifying it and I think we're in agreement unless the board has any questions of me or after Miss D ranzo no that's all we received the D number and the only comment they had was to make sure that the buffer zones if they were damaged that they were restored um and the continuing and the special conditions we discussed at the last meeting were that the slope um that was created after the dam was removed be blanketed and seated for erosion control um that no stream Crossing be replaced right now without a new notice of intent um and that the depth sorry that the that the grade at the bottom of the stream Bank matched the original conditions so those are what the order of conditions would have as special conditions from the board okay any questions from the board regarding any Jack no questions from the audience any comments from the audience anything from Zoom seeing none I have a motion please so move and the motion is let's just repeat it so that issue an order of conditions with special conditions okay all right okay have a second I'll second second all in favor and just let the record show that commissioner Bower um signed the mullen's form he reviewed the minutes he wasn't present at the first meeting he reviewed the minutes so that he could vote I was wondering if Ed had reviewed the minutes he did not so that's thank you very much now I have to relinquish my power must Mr Hoops would join us again um just one second oh maybe will thank you is that everything covered properly again everything was covered properly yeah was fine maybe he's not coming back you think I can go on yeah you can read it into the record and he'll join back the next item is um an enforcement C Beach Association CR Road unpermitted reconstruction of a stockade fence within a coastal Beach and velocity flood zone gentlemen so this for this item um we should see if the chairman is going to join us again I'm just goingon to go see if the chairman is ready to join us just well yeah we'll see what what happen just just take it easy for a second well sure taking it easy it's Christmas this would be an exciting part for people from home to be watching if they were you know he'll be right in but I'll give the board of summary of uh the violation okay so we can begin yeah okay gentlemen no so I'll give a summary for violation you will that's right in enforcement I'm sorry so sorry with me one second this is the end of crb Road um there's an association Beach there they have kayra and there was an existing stade fence um there an observation of fence material on site and I sent our contact for the association Carl valer an email letting him know that reconstruction of the site of the fence would require a building permit and um permission with conservation um couple of weeks later the fence was constructed um and I sent a violation notice to attend the only condition was to attend a meeting to discuss next steps because the area is with in a velocity flood zone and we don't allow Stockade fences any longer while there was an existing Stockade Fence there reconstruction in the velocity Zone and any other area requires that um the applicant have more that they comply as much as they can with our existing regulations um so that would mean a some improvement on the fence even if it was existing to better conform with our current regulations and so here is a photo of a couple of photos of the fence now is completely closed in on the bottom there's um some wood so that no water can pass through probably similar to what was there prior and So currently our regulations require um that any fences within the velocity flood zone allow flood Wars to pass through freely um so that my recommendation to the board would require that this fence be modified to better fit our current regulations um which would mean 6 in of clearance at the bottom um and perhaps removal of some of the slats um because if flood waters come up here and hit the fence it can easily become redirected and channelized which we don't no longer allow with our current regulations um and increase velocity through that small opening up the up the street so we're just trying to improve the flood zone I understand you had a fence there prior um but we are trying to get some improvement when you do Redevelopment sorry for that um so the board can discuss how next steps you want to handle next steps okay um do we do we want any discussion from the board at this particular time discussion with the board and then we'll hear from the applicant or the home owners the statement as well I was just going to say that in another Beach property we did um the split rails yeah and it worked very well uh for that area same type of deal just let you know you know that's what we told them and that's what they did okay Jack um no questions I don't have questions yeah might a question that has to do just so I understand um this is unpermitted fence right from the beginning so the association had a fence there it's been existing there for a long time um but they did reconstruct a new Stockade Fence in its place they did replace it but even if we're replacing an existing structure um we want it to better comply with our current regulations um and rebuilding a fence does require a building permit yeah requires so it didn't have a building permit and it's also a type of fence that is not we would be I know there's a stade fence there was a stade fence fence has been there for 40 years yes it has um but when you're putting in a new fence in an area that's sensitive especially in the velocity flood zone that experiences waves up to greater than 3et in height we want to be meeting our current regulations as close more closely than in the past so to provide an improvement on the area instead of St maintaining the status quo with this boundary um that can have a negative impact on the flood zone Okay so we want to hear from from these individuals right now or Ed do you have you want to I'm going to stain because I didn't come in I only came in halfway through so right okay gentlemen yeah no C certainly I'd like to make a statement so um I'm Dave Meadows I'm actually one of the property of Butters uh to the crw beach parking lot obviously we've maintained uh We've owned that parking lot uh since um the for the last 60 years it's been recorded in uh page uh or book 1440 page 9933 the fence was there it's always been a way to um demarcate the parking lot area from the beach area uh it's been a stockade fence that whole time obviously from time to time the fence had to be repaired and those panels have been replaced over over that period of time the fence serves several purposes uh one it delineates the parking lot from the beach uh it also provides privacy uh for some of the residents up the road as you could see uh which is which is helpful for those residents and the Butters and then more importantly it acts as a safety barrier for you know uh families that are on the beach to really prevent you know a automobile or car from kind of running up onto the beach and causing you know a very bad accident um earlier this year the crow Beach Association which it's about 100 members they approved us to use some funds to uh address some issues um some of the repairs where the biking bike racks in the parking lot as well as some signs that we've uh we fixed and then we also did notice uh as we went through that that the fence needed to be repaired so we replaced uh three panels which was about 24 linear feet in fact we actually um Britney maybe wasn't very clear we actually took out a full panel as well so we did actually widen the area that was the walk through the the beach that got widened by roughly about four and a half 5T um so if if you also look at other areas um in on the Bay Area there are this is very similar to other stockade fencing obviously you can see one in the picture there from the abutter um right there obviously on the other side of the parking lot there is also a stockade fence which is of of a plastic uh type if you go further down Lewis Bay uh Lewis Bay Road the Anglewood Shores Association they actually have a stockade fence there uh both from Lewis Bay um road to the to the beach area they also have a another Stockade Fence belt Midway down the beach Beach as well as they have a stockade fence going the West Side along the beach all the way to the to the water and then further if you go to uh 194 Barry uh Barry Avenue they have a stockade fence as well that runs up right up to the beach about I'm just going to interrupt right there I do pleas let me finish my statement um so for us um you know we did not believe we needed a permit to you know replace the fence panels um the project was completed by some volunteers of the community and we did not you know understand that a permit was required uh as we did the work it only took a couple hours so certainly you know we want to resurrect the situation and put this behind us and and certainly come up with a solution that's workable um that really uh protects the the abutters the folks that are in the community as well as you know uh honoring some of the requests from the conservation committee the um the fact of the matter and maybe I can get a little help on this is that um what exists in the area Okay is separate from this particular issue okay so one thing is taken at a time quite possibly secondly you you um you did the work without a permit okay you needed a permit and you didn't get it and that's a problem but but I've own I've owned property in South yarma for many years and I've replaced fences and I've had contractors replace fenes and no permits were ever required for they should have gotten a permit okay simple as that a lot lot of people a lot of people get involved in putting things up without a permit and then things like this happen and then the other thing is I understand it and and maybe I need some help with that is that fence does not comply with our regulations in terms of the the difficulty with the Flowage of water through there so that's a very very important aspect to this particular problem I think and so that has to be rectified in my opinion we could address the bottom of the fence it sounds like Britany was suggesting um I'm sorry uh Carl valer president of crw beach Association it sounds like what Britney was suggesting is if we were to uh terminate below the one of the Rails which would get us the 6 in or more underneath cut that and then take out various slots along the way hopefully aesthetically something that's consistent that that would diffuse the issue regarding that would be prefer yeah sounds like it would be acceptable yeah so to to create some sort of flow so that the water is not being impeded by a solid that can happen on both sides yeah yeah that is what I was suggesting and so from this picture um so now there there's two panels on each side um is this two panels on one side and three is it the old one that's the old one so there's actually only now two panels on the one side where your mouse is okay and so on the other side there's um there's a large panel and then a small panel okay so it's 16 feet on one side and and roughly 12T on the other side but again we did widen it though so so that seems like relatively easy fix to at least comply with what the new requirements are yeah now what about the permit is there um a need to go back for a per I'll have to discuss with building but yes generally when you're constructing a fence greater than I think it is 6 feet in height I have to confirm with them um you need a building permit and that would have flagged me um requiring conservation permission so kind of could have avoided this um but yes so you may need to file an after the fact building permit um with the building department MH but I think with those two it would be um an enforcement order with those two requirements would rectify the situation I'm sorry the last part of it an enforcement order requiring um six inches of clearance at the bottom and the removal of slats consistently to allow water to flow through um whether that be we probably should Define it with the board do you have any idea how wide these are our preference would be not to move remove the slots it would be just just to do the not all the slats but we I think we would need to remove some of the slats so that it wouldn't um so each of those slats I think are three and a half inches wide yeah yeah they're just the standard stockade Pick It kind yeah yes but I am concerned about the aesthetic look of it the what just the Aesthetics of it with with respect to the other fencing that it's directly on the ab Butter's property I think our regulations do have a a WID requirement I think though so we would have to create spaces I think every other slot or two slots and then two slots in a consistent manner um yeah I don't think that we have any jurisdiction over Aesthetics at all and um it's the functionality of things that our Our concern and the fence has been there like but the fence has been there for 40 years well there's a lot of things around town that have been there for a long time that shouldn't have been there to tell you the truth in my experience in this in on this committee things went by the boards or whatever and a lot of times these things are corrective okay that that we see and it these things are basically designed to protect the property you know because if you leave up barriers and there's a big um there's a a big storm it's going to do a lot more harm than if the proper procedures are take are are employed prior to that storm so again my understanding of it so if there were just simple post and rail across the front of it that would be no problem Stockade Fence were gone that would be no problem both of the rail are very very um common yeah another uh we the other Beach we were I was talking about these people had also had a stockade fence that had to be replaced and that's when they went to the to the rails and it worked for them and worked for the I'm just saying that was a solution well obviously we don't want to do that but uh you're going to have to provide us with the enforcement notice that you want us to do right I mean it doesn't sound like we really have a choice I mean obviously we're more than willing to remove this plus six Ines to provide for the water flow um but to take out all of those uh posts it seems that we might as well take the entire structure down at that point I mean if if if there is is there any specific regulation as to could Britney I think you started to address it how many inches apart from each other one that remains I think yeah they're not it's not in the regulations I think we just started to write it and decided um against that particular one so there is no specific criteria for at least the well F stade fences can't be built in the velocity flood zone um new so a new Stockade Fence can't be in there um the question had to do with the post I'm sorry maybe I missed what you said about the post you're asking no the slats the slats okay slats well again I think that was answered in terms of the um fact The Stockade fences are not yeah so it has to have some sort of um gaps we just don't have a defined Gap in the regulations so um so one we definitely have to have clearance below yes two there's no specific items with respect to the vertical it's nothing can be built to block or divert flood water so right now it does um well other than the fact that there there's this new stockade fence right so I'm what I'm saying is the extent that it is there there are no specific regulations but there could be some compromise or discussion as to the width of all of them or are we just wasting our time and need to take the entire fence down I don't really understand I think we're just um trying I think we'll leave it a little loose in the enforcement order unless um we decide differently there needs to be spaces provided y um consistently across each panel um whether that's every other or every two never looks better yeah it has to be there that those could be the options um but they just need to be consistent okay so short of removing it all those would be our choices with respect to the sounds the gaps yes okay yeah can I um first of all I think that there's been some contention on this over time and uh not coming to the proper people to get the permits so that's number one second that once you take something out you modify it whatever you do and if if you need permits that's one thing but also you have to follow the new regulations oh that's become clear okay and I not even sure you buy into that until you just said that yeah um so I think that the main thing is Flowage would probably take out those slats if you get it strong enough you you might you lose some of that fence because you don't allow water to come through so there's a number of reasons why that applies it's not just looks or uh it's because they're trying to protect the resource MH okay so at this particular point we going to are you going to Brittney kind of check on what the the work they do in terms of opening up the slots or um yeah we'll follow up but right now the special conditions we've discussed are to remove the bottom 6 in and um have a consistent spacing provided by with the removal of slats um I also just did want to discuss is this on I can't remember is this the parking lot side with the trash barrels or the beach side those concretes uh those are small removable conrete blocks on the beach side this is on the beach side yeah and why why are we using those those were there just to support the barrels for trash are the barrels there year round or they're deployed seasonally de rounds do people use them in the winter yes and they be stored on the other side um not sure but maybe we have to move the bike rack do you just have a rope holding them in I'm just worried about them and both the concrete blocks and those becoming storm debris oh I see yeah we got to look at another way to secure it oh you just take the blocks away yeah if you could remove the blocks um and think about storing this on the other side I know it's tethered so it's not a big deal but the blocks are more of a big deal for storm debris um so we've spoken about those conditions um and if you could complete the work within a month and a half should be done in a couple of weeks I mean I I I would like maybe a little bit longer period of time it is the winter and yeah it is the winter which is where we experiened the biggest storm events so that's why we really need the work to be done as quickly as possible you know it's um so February 3rd febrary 7th okay do we have to vote on anything here you do have to vote to issue the enforcement order with the conditions discussed unless there's any other for the enforcement order with the conditions as discussed unless there's any other questions from the board other questions from the from the commission nope okay everybody clear on what's going to take place in terms of the enforcement order okay oh I have uh do I need a I need a do I need a motion online pardon online oh online online anybody online you don't need to take public comment for enforcement okay let me back up okay we don't need public comments okay we're all said need motion need a motion to accept this uh Bradford and second I will Jack okay we're we're making progress all right all in favor okay thank you gentlemen are you clear with all of this if you have any questions we can call Britney and discuss it very much for coming in and taking care of this to take over again I sign this is for I assume this is for we Road did you pass it I don't sit there I don't sit there yeah I know did you pass it I wasn't here did did you guys no they need to an order for uh for Weir Road yes yes you did okay have to pass that down yeah so you need to sign that I think I should be fired and then you'll also need to sign the enforcement order and that leaves meat all right um another enforcement order uh Karen and David Swan one wind deir Road failure to remove patio and install a native vegetation on dry wells in the riverfront area buffer buffer zones to Coastal Bank and salt marsh per a determination of applicability Britney yep there's not much more detail is then in the summary there was a determination issued in 2008 um at this property with an approved plan requiring the removal of a patio and veget and um Native buffer planting to be installed which had not been completed that is it all right the enforcement order requires that this work be completed I think there was no the draft had um no date so we have to decide on a on a date oh it does have um a date well now it's too close but um dates are January 1st for remov and restoration completed by the end of May you guys can come up to the do you want to do a hard hard roll or whole hard date on the removal or do you just want to have everything done by May 31st I don't need a hard date on the patio if as long as everything's done by May 31st okay and do you need any there special conditions attached to je there's the general um planting conditions with um just a planting plan species okay regular spacing no mulch um okay the regular with monitoring right any questions from the board no right now okay uh do you understand what we're asking um yes and no well there was a determination of applicability that told you to remove the patio and that was what date the determination was issued 2008 2008 right yeah I was looking for the exact fe uh April 10 2008 okay and you were the swan you were still the applicant the same it was the same applicants correct that's correct so you were told to remove it in 2008 you didn't and now we're using the enforcement order to tell you to do that can I go back in time for a minute um so the previous owner I don't know if anybody remembers the name Steve Raleigh um he was the previous owner of the property and he was the one that was made responsible for enforcing all the all the different criteria here um and I know one of the things that's listed is the um the dry Wells and I and by the way I want to thank a couple of the um commission members that did come buy the property including Britney to to see the area so they have um a few have seen the area um and um I know the drywalls was taken care of and and and and the other stuff that was required in there was taken care of and you know obviously um you know the previous owner you know Mr Raley didn't complete part of the requirements here I know there was a lot of contention and again we heard this through his through his um voice there was a lot of contention with the with the wall that was allowed to stay but some things had to be taken off the wall um and and he he certainly wasn't happy not that that matters about his feelings but um with the whole wall situation in the in in the the brick pavers and so forth so um I mean that's the year we bought the house and we were understanding that he had taken care of what needed to be taken care of or I think there's a confusion over who was given this order I don't recall it being my order I recall it being his job to do y and so because we weren't we were considering buying the house so you know there was a transition period there that's he was emotional about it Steve was and we were just wanting to inherit you know a house that was okay so it was our understanding it was now okay and we bought it so it's been this way since we bought it um thinking that we had that we were okay unfortunately you know I the the the way the the Wetland protection act uh reads is that the the violation travels with the essentially with the title so um you the way we have to look at it is like there was an order that was given to remove the patio uh he should have told you that that was part of it but he either did or did not or gave you some other other information but uh ultimately it comes down to uh you essentially if you bought the property with violations you essentially own the violations are responsible for for doing the the um the correction and so that's where it looks like we stand uh but I do remember this I was on the board at the time uh the board was adamant that this be removed uh and you know that's what it comes down to is that we were expecting it to be removed um this was a determination so there's no there's no formal process uh under the determination of doing any kind of you know follow-up checks and that sort of thing uh so unfortunately you know it just it it's essentially come along to this point and and we're at this point now where we're saying again we We Now understand that there is a uh ongoing violation and it needs to be corrected it was told you were you know the homeowner was told to correct it they didn't they sold the property and by your buying the property you inherited the the violation and are now required to do the the um the correction is it is it CU again our understanding from the original side of it was cuz I know there was he mentioned to us that there was a lot of discussion about the wall the infamous wall and I don't know if you remember that back then um and he actually mentioned to us that there was discussions about having to actually take the wall down um and as I understood things um there was an exception given to keep the wall in there obviously there was some lights on the wall originally which is when we first looked at the pro property there were lights yeah along the wall which which were removed um and um and then the wall was to be hidden it shouldn't be seen from the water side so already there where what I call Rosa regosa I don't if that's the right name for the plant we actually planted more of them along the wall to to hide the wall and make it part of the you know environment I mean the way I remember worked hard to REM to Main maintain them by taking out weeds that were choking them or whatever and just trying to keep it keep it nice Beyond the Wall yeah the way I remember is because we we had a a major concern that because if I remember correctly we there was some question as to whether or not any of the decking or anything else was was truly legal and I think at one point or another we allowed the deck but as part of allowing that deck it was to remove that patio because again it was I mean this if if you came before us today and asked for a patio or even for that matter a the deck where it is we we turn you down so um you know I mean I think that was a compromise that the the commission ultimately decided was at least acceptable to them at the time uh and so the deck remains but we had wanted to see that patio go and I think that's just unfortunately it's there's nothing I can say that that's going to change that that's so can you educate me a little bit because I'm a little confused about the whole conservation idea these pavers are per I mean the sand there the sand between them so the water goes down we never have any puddling or anything now if we take them out and put in Plants isn't it the same thing the water's still going to go down into the ground yeah so my bigger concern with that is that the typically you typically you put hard Hardscape down even if you call it a porous pavement uh that that that type of construction ultimately you're not it's not allowing water to penetrate fully down into the ground water it it does I mean it may it may be Distributing that water across you know across the surface or slightly below the surface but it doesn't allow full and the more time that goes by the less likely it is to allow that water to to get through because things start getting clogged and the pores get get start getting clogged and it becomes you know you may not have it puddling now but sooner sooner or later you stke getting P puddling too uh but in the view of the commission uh some sort of planted soft scape is going to is a preferable solution to a hard skate is what it comes down to um and and I mean typically you know even when we do when we do uh Hardscape we do allow Hardscape uh we require uh significant mitigation planting in place of that or in lie of that so or as a as a it's a requirement for allowing that Hardscape to occur uh so I mean in this well under the under the old rules you should have put what was it three two two to one I think it would have been yeah so it would have been if just for an example if that was 100 square foot uh patio you'd have to put 200 square ft of uh planting somewhere in between the patio and the and the resource area but you don't even have that that's that's the other issue and that's why we we were so adamant about removing the patio in the first place so that's that's my probably a longer sorted story than any of the Commissioners wanted to hear but well when somebody's hang can we just if you want if you can go back to that picture real quick um because this is in the direction of looking towards our neighbor but if if you actually looked the other way and I think a couple of the gentlemen saw it as well as Britney there's the parking lot right next door to us um which was redone in the last couple of years and um you can't quite see it from here but if you there's literally a parking lot right next to us and so which was redone and again it's it's almost it's it's almost the same exact as as the wall if you if you kind of extended out from the wall you got the parking lot right there and so we're trying to understand why the parking lot right here but it's not an issue right next right next door to us that was that was redone within the last couple of years so it just the parking lot with a permitted structure but we and if I the patio is not so obviously we're going to allow allow a permited structure to be replaced and maintained I mean if that were the case then we would say anytime a house has to be has to be repaired or replaced then it's like no you can't do it yeah that doesn't make any sense so I mean that's the that's the difference between your your situation and the parking lot is ultimately it comes down to that was supposed to that was never supposed to be there in the first place and to be honest with you obviously even in 2008 we did we didn't want to see that patio there yeah and we would not have permitted it and that's what we were telling them at the time is that we won't we we wouldn't permit the patio like that so we're certainly not going to allow it to remain and that's what it comes down to I'm just wondering if it's possible just given um if it you know I know I sent an email and I think Britney said she fled hopefully everybody got a chance to read it and um and saw the picture of what happened a year ago U from you know December of last year and where the water does come up and it it doesn't come up where we are because we're up higher I mean if if there is going to be water that comes up it's going to go across the parking lot which is down next to us and then it goes up the street and then down diagonally um as well so it's which we're just trying to understand to see if maybe there's an exception here um you know somewh to the wall you can you could see it right here unfortunately I don't know if this picture is proving the case that you want it to because it does show that your home is diverting flood water from its natural path um to fill in the lower Ling areas around it um and I do understand that it does flood often um and it is different because the Coastal Bank on your property has been replaced by an artificial structure whereas the coastal Bank in the parking lot hasn't been changed from any structures so it's still serving its original you know its natural purpose and service um whereas yours has been altered so wasn't looking at it that way yeah I'm just trying to understand you know the you know if you look at it from the whole flow of the water you know even if the wall wasn't there and so forth um the water would be flowing under your house if it were set on pilings it would be uninterrupted flow cuz we've never had water we've got a crawl space below the actual house we don't have a basement we put a crawl space we've never had water in there I mean it's just not it's not a place where the water is going to get to so that's why we're just trying to see if there's a you're talking about the size of the storms had water you will in the future storms are going to get bigger you just maybe lucky haven't had a big enough storm to get your wall is going to help but as you just pointed out your the walls water is going to come from your neighbor go through so I think that you'd be better off having something that absorbs the water faster in front of your house and those kind of permeable uh from my viewpoint those don't work that well as Ed pointed out they you know accumulate dirt uh town would probably actually come in vacuum or replace or at least open up the pores between those bricks so if you wanted to maintain that you'd have to go in there and do a pretty expensive maintenance and then you might get a little but once you get two or three four inches of of storm you're I don't know the numbers but you're going to have a lot of water so I think you'd been a lot better off with without those that patio so it's not just the ecosystem which I talked to you about when I was out there but um you know there's a lot of reasons why I think you're better off without it um is it going back to that previous picture uh Brit I'm sorry um is it possible to maybe if we do something on the other side you know our side I'll call it this side of the wall the left side of the wall to maybe you know instead of having to come up you know near where the um where the deck is you know if if it were just partially coming up towards it just you know just so you you've got that extra buffer on the other side of the wall CU we how many feet out is it yeah cuz we we have and I think I put it in the email we have in my opinion we have the largest buffer zone on the other side of the wall is any other house on windir road or even on the beach I mean if if if you know if anybody sells a house further up from us I mean there's going to have to be exceptions for them because they're literally right on the water there's there's no buffer zone area like there is with our property are you just asking for room for Access around your deck I'm sorry are you asking for some access space around your deck yeah yeah I mean at worst case I mean I obviously the the request would be if we you know to to to leave it the way it is but if if that's not going to happen then if we can lessen it so there's more room there um CU right now there's there's very little room on the other side of the decking the the other thing that would that would be nice I I if it's not possible I get it but um you know the you know the Ros of gross are on the other side of the wall um they they get suffocated if you go back to the to that picture again you can actually see um you could see that white if if you go no to the previous one you could see the white um kind of coming to to the next door neighbors it it kind of suffocates the Rosa regosa yeah so those are native though that's meding those are back a high tide bu high tide Bush right yeah so you can't do any management to those just comes sits to be taking over and honestly I'd rather see the high tide Bush on the high tide bush is a better plant a okay I just wasn't sure how that all worked and how far back is your neighbors from the water they have a new order of conditions that requires 10t of planting all up in front of the deck they're further back though aren't they no they're um or the house itself um no it's I think it's I think it's similar I can pull it up well again I mean we aren't here to discuss the the neighbors it's like we're discussing what should have been done in 2008 and the reality is that you know you were lucky that you that the wall was granted and I think I mean I think again certainly the wall would not be a would not be permitted today uh the only reason I even feel remotely comfortable with the wall being where it is is the fact that you've got the ve the super vegetated area in front of it and hopefully this the high tide Bush will continue to to flourish and stay nice and thick like that so that any water that does come through from in flood water will be slammed into the into the vegetation first and not redirected by the wall uh but again we're not here to talk about the wall we're here to talk about the the patio that needs to be replaced or removed so yeah I don't care if you keep a small path of you know path in front of the deck but again I I I I I don't want to see the patio there so no no Hardscape between the deck and the wall I don't think I can say it any clear clear or succinctly that was clear is there any other questions from the board no unfortunately not um there's one date we may have to revise so we'll need a planting plan and right now I have the end of January so the well the planting plan um because there's no plan associated with this it just says native planting so we need a plan it could be a sketch but um maybe the end of March instead yeah I don't I I don't need a but there's nothing it doesn't doesn't have to be a stamp plan or anything else just a literally a sketch plan you could use like a like a g GIS or aerial photo that sort of thing but other than that I'm good with the dates as long as everything is done and you just need to make sure that the I mean the plan obviously the planter plan should come in at least a month before the deadline because we have to be able to respond to it and then you have to be able to plants you know Source the plants and that ort of thing so uh but I think I I'm I'm I'm looking at the M the May 31st 20125 uh deadline as the full rest that's when full restoration needs to be done so the patio has to come out a plan has to be approved and you have to have everything planted by the 31st of May would you have a recommendation as to what sort of plant you have a list of plants I can give you a list and ones that I recommend I can't be Rosa regosa because we have small grandchildren running around out there and they can't be in the Thorns no I'd rather not I mean Rosa regosa is not native but I'm happy to provide you a list of plants with different heights and and everything for the area friendly and it's not possible just to get a little bit of extra space there from you know when you come off the deck to I told you I don't mind if you just for walking around that sort of thing but I don't want to see any Hardscape there just just make a little can get down and walk okay okay all right all those in favor of uh I'm sorry I need a motion to um approve the amended uh enforcement order amended for date Jack is there a second second all those in favor opposed carried unanimously thank you for coming in thank you I'll send you an email with the enforcement order and the list of plans I'll send you an email with everything send an email okay so just trying to something I can draw yes she's very she's very good at drawing thank you all right I think we're going to have to table the minutes until next week because we don't have a quorum for that so I will table uh minutes minute approval for December 6 2024 to January 2 2nd next year next year take care thank you thank you uh any other business not reasonably anticipated all right well with that then would somebody like to make a motion to adjourn and we won't won't come back until next year so second a second yeah all those in favor opposed un n We Stand adjourned at 554