theater right on Main Street no I'm I'm saying I wasn't it's not where I went to see it I'm trying to think I'm trying to remember oh hello still won't go swimming SC the world welcome every everybody that's the regularly stated meeting for the Yarmouth Conservation Commission meeting for Thursday June 20th 2024 this is to formally advise that is required by General Law chapter 38 30A sections 18- 25 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 an act relative extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signed into law on June 16th 2021 as extended by chapter 2 of the act of 2023 the armouth Conservation Commission will hold public meeting at the date and time noted above the public is welcomed to attend either in person or via the alternative Public Access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of Yarmouth website and this is the Yarmouth Conservation Commission meeting for Thursday June 20th 2024 our first order of business is a request for determination of applicability uh for ocean Harbor Estate Association 90 Harbor Road and this proposed mimat and kayak rack on a coastal Beach and land subject to Coastal storm Flowage good afternoon everybody and just if you would just state your name for the record then briefly describe what you'd like to do and then we'll turn it over to uh questions from the board good afternoon uh my name is Ed Hurley uh I live on wward way in West Yarmouth and uh here represent presenting um ocean Harbor estate along with Rachel and um the basic request we'll be happy to answer any questions you may have um fill in some blanks for you but um we are we are here tonight to request um authorization for a kayak rack to be constructed um at the entrance to the private beach at the end of um Harbor Road that's owned by ocean Harbor estate um in previous years the um kayaks along with other smaller crafts for folks that had more Rings um in the area of Lewis Bay um had been stored on the beach and um last year um we were notified that one of our neighbors had complained about the uh location and what was being done to store The Kayaks and let me be very clear tonight with Rachel and I and other members of our association you know we're here because we want to work with you and make sure whatever we're doing we're doing what's right um just some quick history for all of you I mean I've been um a long I've been in this area a long time as a guest um I was 3 years old my grandparents built a built a home and we used that beach um was our beach some the time I was through I spent every day of ever Su my life till I was 18 and we're fortunate six years ago my wife and I bought a house across the street ironically for my grandparents and we moved here full-time two years ago so this area is very important to me and and my family I know to a lot of other families so I I also want to just thank um thank Britney and also Finn for their support during this process they were incredibly supportive um last year when we met with them I should also mention and then I'll try to do what I'm not very good at which is stop talking um last year our association at our meeting last summer um did vote to authorize um funds to construct kayak rack um for folks that want to have kayaks so it has been approved by our association so we met with uh Britany a couple times and uh then we submitted the request for determination so um that's a quick background Rachel anything you want I think that's pretty thorough okay questions from the board um I do which which one do you prefer is the um one that's the 8T High by 12T wide or 6 feet high by 14 wide well look at yeah I I think um I don't want to speak for everybody but I think you know we we ended up when I went to measure um and and stake out the area there in the area that we had um originally talked about locating it which is right here the the only one that really I thought fit comfortably was the um 12 by 8 one which would be 3T up but I also not sure as we have a conversation tonight um with what was sent to us if wasn't sure what the markings meant on the map and if it was something that you know there may be areas if there's other areas besides that spot um you know that we could put the rack we'd certainly be open to that again we want to do what you know what is best for um not just our association but what you all think is best to protect the area as well um the other remark I would I would ask you to add in there is it says in the event of extreme Stormy Weather all owners are encouraged to remove how about required yes even though they're going to be strapped down I think you know with that those yeah y um that's all I have you covered it I appre appreci how you you staked out and put the string between your tent Stak that was fun um I am not a surveyor as you can tell by my work I did the best I could God bless my wife was trying to help me to figure out what the best angle was for it to work but that's that's what we came up with and again and if you have thoughts that you think there's another area that might work better or would be better we'd certainly be open to that it's better than some of the professionals do let me tell you I have a question about where you're going to put the map yeah um thank you that's right there so you know pretty much you know from the road and as you can imagine over the um in recent years there's been a lot more erosion not just to the beach but to the dunes so there's a lot of sand that's on the road now so basically um try to determine you know where the road ends I remember when I was a child right you know here that was a there was a boat ramp that came down there a boat ramp is long gone um so what we want to do is is from the road and just bring it right to between the two benches and and the hope is that you know um folks myself included as we get older um you know the folks have ability still get to the beach in in in a walker or a wheelchair and again that would be something as I think we indicated that would be um something that we would just use seasonally and would be taken down as well so how many how many feet roughly you know it's it's funny that you said that I was thinking I was thinking on the way over here tonight I said I measured it and I didn't bring it with me um but it was by I want to if I had a guess I want to say like maybe 50 yeah I think we did an estimated measurement last year and it was around 50 ft cuz we were looking at the different ones available and we knew we were going to need a longer length to get down from the street I would only ask that uh you we put a a set dates on the seasonality so U yep and after April 1st and out by November 1st absolutely absolutely I think we were thinking October that got that April that in here yeah yep okay works the same way okay either way I'm I'm good all right any uh any Britany anything I think some oh I'm sorry Jack oh Jack you have a question no not yeah I just have one question so just so I understand um the mat will be put down and taken up at the end of the season the rack itself will remain there no no taken off it will be taken down and stored oh excellent okay all right thanks anybody else can I do something that I shouldn't do but I've got one other question if I can just ask um I I had mentioned that also on the beach um historically folks had had you know Moorings in um in in Lewis Bay in that area it's only people that live in the area um you know have kept the their boats on the beach you know the the small crafts get out to the to to the Ms and obviously you can't do that again um is that something that would there be an area that we could it's only a couple of folks I believe yeah it's about three individuals who historically have had a tender down there and and we've removed all of the chains and cinder blocks that were down there uh but they we're worried about how they can be accommodated since there's no other access point to this beach and it's only allowed for people who are members of The Association they can't there can't be other Moorings out there if they don't uh belong to the association and I and I would say just to kind of reinforce that you know we'd make absolutely clear if we can find a space to to put two or three you know of the small you know Robbo type things that they use that it would only be for people who have crafts with you know Moorings in LS Bay not for other folks reconfigure the rack let's put them on the lowest level that's what I would I would think to either put on low on the low level of the uh rack would that would that work I think it probably would work I think the only you know concern would be I mean as it is we're thinking that you know having eight or nine um places for kayaks you know might not be enough we're going to do a lottery we're figuring out how we're going to do that and all so I think you know to take a couple or three of them up you know a third of them up you know for that I think would probably some way defeat the purpose of the having the kayak rack could you go back to the picture of the beach is that her is that a Heritage habitat or is that land under the ocean that's that's marked there the purple oh that's just Coastal Beach that's just Beach I yeah Coastal beach coastal Dune strict on putting thingies on the resource we haven't recently been allowing that if we start that we're GNA have it all up and down where we've been strict about removing them is that area where the where the cursor is now um yeah right above that Britney coming down towards the towards the Shaded area sorry over here hydr yeah yeah right in yeah right in there the fire hydrant is right up a little high I think yeah fire hydrants there and then what what's the area further down this is um town of Yarmouth property okay so all of that is town of Yarmouth property is that I think so or a trust I can't remember I think it's in the conservation trust well the trust is to the West okay um the west and the north our lot is between the two Le bad president bad president I think so too oh yeah this is owned by your Association um but it's still under conservation restriction jurisdiction yeah oh no it's not priority habitat well I would say for guess if you keep it on on on the association property and you don't put it on the vegetation it's between you and whoever setting it on the resource area which like I said we've been very strict about removing that stuff in the past two or three years in the past three years we've been sending violation notices for boats tied up on beaches s the tails in the rack and so you can still yeah I just put it in the rack then is the whole area considered resource area yeah yes the whole lot is okay all I one of your racks here you you you're doing three tiers and the other is just two could you use the larger one and just go up three give you three more spaces extended the tails on the rack so you could put three more boats on the outside then it would wouldn't fit in the space unless you do another row on top which might not be able to reach I was just thinking horizontally just a question please um so this this conversation is about the ability to put like a dinghy on the beach and and because there's Moorings right off the you know um and so the Moorings are still there correct yes yes now you're saying that I mean I know they make things like um carts and things to carry dingies could it be possible to bring it down to the water and then bring it back bring it they have a Mobi map it it makes it a lot easier to bring it on a little dolly quick convenient yeah yeah yeah bring it down closer to and these are for for members of the homeowners association right who have the moing then I would say it's it's a you could use a dolly down the street and down the Moby mat and Away you go yeah yeah given that then I would say I I tend to agree with everybody else you need to put them in the fine that that that makes sense thank you Mr chairman may I ask one more question question in regard to that area so what is now sand is about 20% of what was 20 years ago when I first bought my home here um there are native species there that we recognize are important are is it acceptable for us to remove Bittersweet and Virginia creeper things that are invasives that are encroaching well Virginia creeper is native I a Vine sorry um unless it's in the pathway you can hand clip in the pathway but I mean generally we we allow a 4ot pathway to be maintained okay so that that allows you know foot access and if you're bringing the dollar and that sort of thing uh if you're going to do anything more than that I would say you know you need to file do a new filing for that okay any other questions from the board Britney no I'll set anybody in the audience oh hi thank you you just state your name for the record absolutely uh David Lawler um an attorney in hyenas how you know Mr Hoops chairman um I represent the owners at 85 um harbers side or um har Road I'm sorry uh the bell of views uh with respect to this application that they here and I they're opposing nor supporting it but we just wanted to address some concerns um and that there are certain restrictions that are placed and one of the one of the ones is you know involving you know some of the boats which I quite frankly I think is an expansion of the application and is not I was my client couldn't be here so I haven't had the opportunity to speak with them about uh the requested expansion of the application to include boats other than kayaks but if I may approach I just have some photographs um I apologize I ran out of my color I only have one set of colored but um I have um I'll give you a copy as well thank you um thank you David thank you we'll share we're fine we'll share one everybody we get along we don't bite real hard so as I said I don't oppose I I put the first picture up to be fair that was taken this week and that the property has been cleared and there are no boats there and I wanted to be I didn't want to make a representation of you know to you know to put false ideas in your head and that there aren't any boats there but if you look at the uh second and third photographs those were taken in September and one of the issues we have is that you know there's about 50 some odd properties that are involved in this Association it's actually 90 90 okay thank you and a lot of them also uh have I believe um you know rentals uh airbnbs some weekly rentals and things of that nature and in the past um and I'm I'm not suggesting that these two folks here are part of it by any it sounds like they're very conscientious but in the past there's been some pretty major abuses with giant floats that have been tied there for the week and you know other um items that you know were going into the resource and you know clearly you know and boats and you know and this picture that you have there the second photograph was taken in September and and granted in that photograph there's only you know probably one two three you know probably you know eight nine 10 boats there but that's in September and in speaking with my clients then in in in July and August it's exceptionally the amount of boats there um in the past have been fire in excess of that amount plus all this other stuff and and trash and whatnot they live right there and they're actually part of the group um and we're not suggesting that we're we're opposing a kayak wreck we're not but the I I would just like to make it very clear that there are very clear um Provisions uh in the order if this board so seems to approve an order which listening to your comments and whatnot that you seem to be headed in that direction that there's some very clear and precise um language in the approval to ensure that k you know that any vessels are stored only on the rack that no other you know we're not storing any accessory equipment we're not storing any other items that no other boats are going to be tied or chained to the rack uh and again I I I think that the addition of I haven't had an opportunity to speak with my client so that makes me a little hesitant um my his understanding was that there weren't going to be any rowboats back and forth and um and and that's not part of the application and he's I'm not obviously didn't have the opportunity uh to consult with him about that issue so um as a as a u a matter of precaution I would I would oppose the robot addition to that and that would be part of a new application or amended application again we don't you know support nor oppose the kayak racks but we're very concerned because it's very difficult to control um you know the Airbnb folks and whatnot and rentals and pay and we understand I attorney here that that's part of the cape cot economy and and those folks you know the visit is to Cape cot is what pays pays everybody's bill at some point so we're not suggesting that it's it's a bad thing but we just want to make sure that the coastal resource is protected that this area is protected and there's a tendency for folks who don't actually own here not to understand the rules and regulations as well as uh others might so that's those are our con those are my clients concerns okay thank you thank you so I would certainly encourage the one condition that it would just be one condition added on uh that would say that the uh boat should only be be stored in the kayak rack no no vessel storage on the on the resource area in the resource area agreed you can go with that M Jack and hold on go ahead Jack and we need to consider putting in requirement for signage that's I think that's basically up for the association put the signage up and and and let the people who are renting their place to let the people who are renting that's the way it is I think you should but that's certainly something the the count association should yeah you say issues and that's where you call natural resources and they take care of it if I can just just to clarify you know our our expectation is um you know the only folks who are going to have boats in that rack are going to be homeowners not folks that are coming in renting or Airbnb you got the what we haven't developed them yet or promoted them yet but we're going to have a procedure in place for anyone we talked about this last summer that if somebody is going to have a kayak there to the point when it needs to be in by when it needs to be out by and it's only going to be for um you know property owners I think the fear that some people have rightfully so is that you come down for the week renting an Airbnb you bring your kayaks you bring it on the beach and just leave them there and that's somehow that needs to be communicated both to the homeowner who's renting it out as well as to people coming that you can't do that that has to be communicated and and that's something we've been working very hard to do and all of the communication we've been sending out to our membership we've made it very clear that no boat storage is allowed at all on the beach this photo of the 8 kayaks was not condoned by the Association this happened after we had communicated at both our annual meeting and in two mailings to all membership uh that they um were not to do this so we're working to enforce it but um that thank you for your recommendation to reach out to Natural Resources because that is a beneficial piece and I would also just reinforce the the photo the first photo that was shared of what it looks like now um that's what we expected it to look like and everyone was communicated um there was a email or email and letters went out to all of the homeowners saying no boats are allowed on the beach period I think you just need to keep keep ramming that home with the with the membership yes ma'am uh I'm Christine gy I'm sitting in the audience however I am a home homeowner with Beach rights I'm also Secretary of the uh ocean harbors and I just needed a point of clarification I mean there was photos sh shared with you that obviously we and the audience couldn't see but now that some things have been brought up by both Ed and Rachel I will tell you that in the annual renewal notice to all of the homeowners they actually cited I actually put red stamping in the areas on both the letter to them and to their renewal forms of their need to the fact that there was no allowance of any storage of boats at all on the property at this time and that there was F work that was going to be done with you as a Conservation Commission so there's been formal notice to every single homeowner um there but uh the pictures the dated pictures are when you know what was what was stored there because I mean I will tell you um for the most part you know living and being I go swimming every day things like that um there have not been boats down there so I don't know when those pictures were taken but we've worked very hard as an association to make sure that it isn't excuse me for commenting but it it's a point of clarification sitting in the audience you don't know what you're being shown sorry thank you I I think attorney Lawler he he I don't know if if everybody heard the pictures that we were wor we were questioning was taken back I think you said September of last year so and and so we do recognize that it's been it has been corrected you're doing what you're supposed to do and that's all we're asking that you that you continue to do that and yet I can I can show you having taken the minutes at the annual meeting last July that we gave very formal notice to all of our homeowners that there was be nothing stored there so whoever was putting it there was not done with either our Authority or permission going to correct this overnight overnight believe me just one question that um I think um it was mentioned that natural resources would be an enforcement body in this if if things are all piled up over there off the kayak rack and I you know they see a golf cart there I don't know if that's parked legally or whatever is that a a function of of um that's illegal also and we've been encouraging them to that is also illegal and we've been U making it clear that they're not allowed as well okay so my question there's no parking on that road it's a private road see but but it is natural resources that would um we also I was to say or or Britany yeah okay all right to take it away from Brit britan's tougher than naal resources is doesn't need a gun she doesn't need a gun all right any other questions from the board anybody else in the audience anybody on Zoom unless there's further discussion among the board would somebody like to make a motion for A2 uh with the special condition for uh citing um vessel storage only on the rack so moved second all those in favor I opposed carage unanimously so negative is a good thing for you it means that you don't have to do any further work filing with with conservation um may I ask one remaining question not related but uh as we go back next week to our annual meeting I know I will receive the question what do the individuals with the Mings do uh what is being done in other Beach areas around town they bring the boat yeah we're we're trying to keep keep uh any storage of boats on the resource out of the resource area itself uh so you know that's again it's this is something that's that's happened over years and years and years so it'll take it's going to take a while for us to to get a full handle on that but a lot of them put them in either small trailers and launch them off local um ramps or they use the dolly system and they Dolly it down and it's just a dolly that you have on the resource area which doesn't throw any shade or anything else and it doesn't remain on the resource area I can say my beach Association people Dolly down oh we have a wax in the bottom where they put their um boats to get whatever vessel they're using some of them walk out because we're talking LS Bay and low tide you know that a long shore drive they just walk out to their boats yeah and that is accessible for some of ours but there are a few that are further out and I just want to be prepared so thank you MH okay good luck thank you very much thank you an hour right uh next order of business is another request for determination of applicability for Ursula King 36 Constance Avenue proposed construction of a 263 squ foot addition in the buffer zone to a bordering vegetated Wetland hello good evening um I'm Tulio I'm responsible I'm representing Rus here um she hired us to go through well first of all she just background information she she came to the building department wondering um about the housing for full-time people here there's no rental property for like travel nurses and all that and she used to be a nurse so she decided um after she talked to the commissioner she decided to go ahead with the project to create to build uh add an addition to the only spot that is possible in her house which is towards the back for you know for not even like travel nurses and people that need the year around rent here since everything a lot a lot on the cape is seasonal her is going to be like year round and um she does it's within the 100t buffer so that's why we're filing the conservation um notice of determination and yeah and I'm here representing her you have any comments [Applause] please you have a picture maybe that would be no PO bear in a snowstorm where this was taken in January yeah yeah I don't know sorry okay there we go oh that's why you wanted the picture that's right I wanted to be in it so would come out here this is the area in the back right side so it's just going spot here [Music] 13 * 24 you're outside the 50 right yeah I'm sorry was 13 times you're outside the 50 Foot buffer he's just confirming is there any mitigation being there's no mitigation proposed because the F 50 is mostly vegetated it is mostly vegetated 62 yeah 32 312 yeah I don't know what's going on with that they're claiming it's so many feet it is Ivy it's vegetated with Ivy this is true all right questions from the [Music] board that matters I just come up with a bigger footprint than 263 but that's just me 24 by I think what you're doing is you're not you're not you're not counting this area that's there already oh right the whatever that is that's a that's a little bump out so you have um what is it it's fine Zone it's whatever yeah it's just 49 s ft difference and that's that little bump out that's there whatever we saying 263 right I would believe that's a 49 square foot thing yeah okay anybody else anybody at all Britney uh no my only comment would be not to disturb the vegetation with the work limit line just have it on the edge of the vegetation instead of within okay just so you don't need to go in there all right you want to work Lon line I don't need to redraw just I can do a condition all right anybody in the audience anybody on Zoom if not would somebody like to make a motion for AG negative3 so moved second all those in favor I closed very unanimously and that's a negative3 correct that's a negative3 all right so the negative is a good thing for you you don't have to do any further filing with the conservation uh check it check back with Britney sometime toward the end of next week uh for the permit for the for the actual determination uh you can take that along with everything else that you need for building permit then perfect thank you very much thank you have a good day everyone right next order of business is a continued notice of intent for SE 8324315835 sandwich and with me tonight is Leslie fields from the Woods Hole group and Malcolm Kent from the great Island Association um we are here tonight requesting a continuance to August 15th um while we probably could have simply relied upon a letter since this is a relatively routine matter thus far we felt it was appropriate to come before you because we want to provide you a status report and also an explanation for the continuance request so as the commission is aware uh the great Island Road was damaged in a storm on December 18th 2023 and since that road provides access to 43 homes including emergency access it was important to protect the road and so emergency work certification was given to place on the geotextile bags filled with sand in the area where the dunes were most compromised and to protect um the road work also allowed the bags to be covered with sand and then and sloped so that they mimicked what a doom would be the emergency work certification required that there be a filing after the fact to obtain you know full permission for the work that was authorized on an emergency basis and that's the notice of intent that was filed in April there's a rather detailed wellth thought out notice of intent before you to obtain after the fact work I'm sorry after the fact permission for the work that was actually done but a curveball kind of was thrown at us by the D so you must know that when an noi is filed the DP gives a file number to the to the application and in years past they simply did that and didn't make any comments but in the past several months or maybe even year or two they've started to make comments on the transmission back to the commission into the applicant and in this particular instance the de commented that the geotextile bags are considered by the DP to be a coal engineering structure which you know are allowed on some Coastal Banks but not on dunes and we don't necessarily agree with that yet but it's obviously thrown a hurdle into our path and so we're here tonight to tell you that that's what happened and because of the dp's position we are essentially kind of going back to square one and we're reassessing the situation we're reassessing our options in including Gathering some additional information and we wanted the commission to know where we are that this was not just a routine um request that's why we want the two months till August and hopefully we'll be ready to proceed at that time but we're also here tonight to tell you that we might even need more time because again I'm sure the commission knows that when an applicant comes before you with a project there's usually months of work that lead up to that um That You Don't See You know the survey work the design work the preparing the narrative Etc so in any event we're here tonight asking for a continuance to August 15th and we wanted you to know where we're where we stand right now and Leslie is with me tonight and she can provide a little bit more detail on the scientific aspects of this thank you Brian again Lesley Fields with the Woodle group um I think we told you this when we were here last time for the Emergency certification but woodel group was brought on um by the great Island homeowners association in the fall of 2023 um and that purpose of that was to develop a feasibility study alternatives for building resiliency for that road like how you know helping them figure out how they're going to continue getting to their properties along that road which is very vulnerable so we were just tired and then we were hit by those they were hit by the storms there was a lot of erosion of the road and dune and Beach and so we were then sort of um trying to develop this shortterm solution to provide erosion control for the road that's what that's what's before you now with a notice of intent um I wanted to also just let you know that while we were doing that short-term solution we're also working on this feasibility study the longer term solution and what we found is that um it's a really unique property and it's um complicated to figure out this longer term solution and I'm just going to give you a couple of reasons why it is complicated we know that it's very vulnerable because um right now they're experiencing flooding of the road in certain places during high tide that's only going to get worse as sea level rises um and certainly with storms more and more the road is going to become flooded um we also know that the neighboring the the adjacent Road the town own Road leading up to Great island is also very low and vulnerable so any sort of solution that involves work on that road could also involve coordinating with the town and those homeowners try to you know remove that flood vulnerability leading up to Great Island um we also know that the road is in the top five of the most vulnerable roads on Cape Cod in terms of um sort of when high tide flooding is going to become an issue how soon it's going to become an issue in terms of the number of properties impacted and in terms of um vulnerability to erosion so it's in the top five um we also know that we're working you know this any project we come up with is going to be in a highly sensitive resource area so we've got barrier beach coastal Doom salt marsh Weare species habitat out there so anything that we come up with for conceptual alternatives for the long term it's got to be you know permittable it's got to meet the regulations that just makes it more complicated um I think also all of the Alternatives we're looking at are extremely costly and so the decision about how best to go for with a long-term alternative needs to be made by a group of 43 homeowners it's very costly um and so it's just it's taking time to sort of figure out what you know what direction they're they're going to go um we have aside from all those complications we have been making a lot of progress and I hope Malcolm will um will agree with that we feel like we've made a lot of progress and um you know we think that we're going to be able to make a decision they're going to be able to make a decision fairly soon um but we have been advising them on this short-term solution the one that's before you tonight not to make a rash decision and don't do it in a vacuum because the solution for the shortterm and the long term are really tied together and so you know we want them to think about both before they make this decision and it just makes it more complicated and takes a little bit more time so we hope that you'll um you'll accept the request for a continuance while we work on it and you know hopefully we'll be back with um a solution that can be approved um my name is Malcolm Kent I'm a member of the board of the great iseland homeowners association and we've been working very closely as lesie just said with with Wood's whole group to try to figure out this extremely complicated situation uh and we really want to get it right so we are going to continue to work on this and again we just want to we appreciate very much the help and guidance we're going to get from the Conservation Commission so to say thank you and we will be coming back whenever we have something that we think is really appropriate three points go go ahead I'll arm wrestle go ahead I think most of us are aware that this road is part of the Cap Cod Commission low roads program so we're a lot of us are aware of that so I we we get that we understand that it's a very challenging project just based on that alone um two in my opinion and I've said this before at hearings that I feel like the sand is a Band-Aid for a bigger solution to this project which is ultimately to move the road and and reconfigure the bridge and all those issues I'm sure you're considering and wait for the groan here amongst my group um I'm a real proponent of sand mining I have to believe that there is a way to go forward with dredging material which was on the beach originally and just are less than a mile offshore and and put it back on the shore it's the right color it's the right size it I mean I can give you a whole list of why that uh in my opinion it really makes sense and it's done in other parts of the country why we're not able to do we haven't been able to do it here I don't get it but it's I just wanted to get it on the record in my opinion sand mining would be a great solution for this project and I wish you good luck because it's it's obviously uh a very important project can I just uh respond to that um you know I agree with you in part sand mining was done here in 1989 it was the first year I started working at Woodle group and that was the first project I worked near the channel right on the West Shore yeah exactly yeah so we we did have an opur borrow site and they pump material up onto the beach um those permits have long since expired um and it's a it's a be a long process in order to get something like that permitted right now not impossible but it would be a long you know five five years probably y they don't have five years we got to protect the road now with all these Southeast storms the game has changed yes yes a question hold on Jack and then and then to David can you tell me the progress you've made on if any on being able to change the geotextile fabric so that it meets standards we have been looking at some Alternatives and and um and sort of trying to develop some costs but you know beyond that we don't we don't we haven't selected anything and um you know we we're aware of some other Alternatives but we haven't selected anything I think originally was that because you put it in because you couldn't find anything else was that one of the reasons why we used the geotextiles because we only had a week before the next storm was coming and so that was all that was sort of available in the Market at the time correct well I'd add that prob I shouldn't talk about it here but I saw the article recently about uh Salsbury yeah on the well no the uh on the sand that they're going to be using for the core of engineers project in Sandwich all right and uh took them how many years to get that permit about five five or six well it's actually probably longer because of if you look at the whole picture of it and so good luck on this one I don't have any solutions it actually took a long time because one of the factors there was that the federal government government has a statute that they they don't admit fault readily and so you have to file a complaint and then they investigate themselves so there was a long leadup to the permitting before the core of engineers admitted that the Jetties were interfering with that flow right um but they are they are going to take sand out of the canal yeah and put it on the beach and I was going to mention the town of Yarmouth and Dennis does that too with their dredging permits um for the Bass River and others that the sand is taken out and put on uh beaches so there is some precedent for that I'm just going to add one more thing that at that at the sandwich project there is an offshore borrow site Nearshore Barrow site that we permitted at woodo group um it's offshore scusset um so they are using that as a part of this core section 111 study or project and they'll be using that material from the Nearshore Barrow site to um to nurse the beaches through the down yeah yeah um I just have quick question about the D they said no whatever they said negatively but did they give you any alternatives but they just said no well the alternatives are up for the applicant to study and come up with that's how the notice of intent works you know we propose projects the DP didn't do that I asked that question because I'm on the advisory Council for the Wastewater and we had a whole set of rules and then suddenly the rules changed and we're working on the new rules right these rules these rules didn't change it's just no well in but to your to your point I just want to make it clear too that one of the things we're considering is whether that DP statement is correct or not because you know what we always traditionally think of Coastal Engineering structures are revetments or bulkheads um and soft Solutions were tended to be permitted and I personally think this is a soft solution um so we have some appet rights I've searched the D case law for the decisions that come out of their you know um oadr Department their their adjudicatory department and there's no case on this so I consider this currently to be dp's opinion and it's not necessarily established and so that's one of the things we're thinking about is whether we want to contest that and try to stick with what we have so again that's why it's so complicated because not to repeat our whole case to you but we very simply thought we would come before you with an after theact noi to permit what had been done and now we're essentially kind of been put back on our heels and we're trying to figure out which direction to go yeah I no problem with that I'm fine with that so all that's really before E night is a continuance request um yeah that's the longest continu request I've ever I've ever dealt with somebody like to make a motion to continue to August 5th or August what was it August August 15th so moved thank 15 second thank you thank you very much for listening to us and for your time wait they didn't vote yet we'll be back you work with Arden yes you're going to take a role you didn't no you guys didn't vote yet all those in favor I I'm I'm taking my own Notes too opposed carries unanimously thank you right next order of business is a another cont continued notice of intent for SE 8324315835 [Laughter] um they're looking to extend or to continue to July 18th 2024 uh and that's for SE 8324315835 [Music] [Music] including second a second story garage patio and pool within land Coastal storm Flowage the riverfront area and the buffer zone to a coastal Beach and Coastal Bank oops that's the wrong one great and I have no I didn't have anything no we did not receive revised plans he didn't send you an email okay so uh this one uh was a continued hearing we just received the um the updated revised plan uh today earlier earlier today uh so none of us have had a chance to look at it or review it or even see what what was there so I would suggest uh we continue this to uh July 18th second okay all those in favor I opposed cares unanimously next order of business is a new notice of intent for SE 83 d243 eight uh Richard DOD 158 Pleasant Street proposed 105 ft landward pier extension and6 s ft of float within a fish run land containing shellfish land under the ocean land subject to Coastal storm Flowage the riverfront salt marsh and the buffer zones to a coastal Beach and salt marsh but no BBW uh Dan I mean there had everything else but Mr chairman I'm going to recuse myself in this vote all right let the record reflect that commissioner Bishop has recused himself good evening um Commissioners um Dan OA from down Cape engineering with me is Dick dod's son Michael DOD if there there are any questions of the homeowner um Mr dud purchased the home I believe in 1971 uh shortly after he permitted or got a license for the dock that was there and um has pretty much been in a similar situation uh some years later Hurricane Bob came along and nicked the end of the um the uh the pier off there he is Mr dud himself um and um they replaced it at that time was it ' 94 whenever that was um with a a ramp and Float to the left of the licensed uh L and the two out hul piles which were destroyed um were kind of relocated one to the end of the to hold the end of the float and the other one as a out Hall pile to the inward side um the pile does enjoy fairly deep water there you can see um basically a minus six um mean sea level to Adda right underneath the float so uh plenty of water on this one the um um marine fisheries had mentioned we might look at float stops but I I don't know that they understood that the we had um over 4 feet below mean low water under this so there's there's there's plenty of water on this one probably a little under 4 feet on the on the inward side so well more than um is needed we had um submitted um a narrative which I do apologize it's appears to me me that our three-page narrative was not inserted and you get a two-page narrative but in any event as typically we do we went through all your um Yarmouth Pier regulations I think my secretary may have inserted the wrong one although it's a little unclear to me which one but just to hit some of the highlights this is a notice of intent for um what we're calling a landward extension of existing license pier and by that we mean we're the existing licens is proud of this uh by a number of feet we're pulling it back and just no new construction really out on the water um all the piles are going to stay there the the float is hopefully going to stay with your permission in the ramp we're just licensing up uh what's already there and has been there for 25 years or so um it's uh the 1973 license so perhaps I was off by year two on that was number 6072 um what we would like to do is that when you um walk out to the pier now you have to you have to cross some salt marsh there's a sand area that they use uh to launch small sailboats and and kayaks and have uh since the early 70s um they also but then they have to walk across a bunch of salt marsh and when I was walking out there I I kept crushing poor little fiddler crabs with my feet I felt terrible I weigh quite a bit and I heard some oh got awful crunching but so what we'll be able to do then is just extending that Pier straight up to where the lawn is and of course um the they do enjoy a nice Osprey pole there after the season after the ospre have have all flown south for the winter uh with your permission we'll move that pole over about 10 ft uh and then then it'll be a nice straight extension of that side of the of the pier um DM uh some of the uh agencies have been requesting a little bit higher peers now um so we narrowed the pier a bit from the licensed four we'll leave it as four but then when we we come in we'll go to 3 and 1/2 and elevate it about 5 and a quarter which is their ratio 1 and A2 uh times um their height um above to the bottom structural members so that we have a good light penetration and there'll be a full inch between the um the um stringers well not the stringers but the steps uh the the planks and Boards so that um there'll be some good light underneath the pier and um it's heading kind of in a good direction this where the sun comes you get a little from the East and a little from the West W so we don't expect that the salt marsh will be impacted hardly a bit maintenance will include um on the outer portion replacement of the damage and deteriorating boards if you went out there you can see they're a little unsafe so we'd like to pull those up and replace them the piles as I mentioned would all stay so no real ground disturbance out in the water um some piles landward as we as were indicated um a couple just under me high water but maybe only one set um so very little disturbance I think it's 92 square foot of disturbance um is is what the piles would be so um again as as you mentioned there's there's many resource areas there's salt marsh land at AR ocean Coastal storm Flowage and Riverfront and um almost all these site is under the um um 100-year storm elevation even even the home Brad Hall uh flagged the salt marsh for us um the design of the pier includes a pile spacing of about 12 feet a nice long span uh there's only 9.4 square foot of marsh that would be impacted uh the width of the decking at three and A2 and the bottom Stringer is 5 and a qu so we have uh the 1in spacing and that would meet the the latest standards and we feel that by concentrating the foot traffic on an elevated Boardwalk for the pier access the impacts of the marsh from foot access uh um to the water lessen considerably and a sign would be placed near the mean high water indicating the right of public passage Under the Pier um and they the way they write the 91 they often say U um walking as well as fish falling and navigating which is uh adequate and fine with us land containing shellfish The Narrative goes through that the float at the end of the pier will be Overland containing shellfish and land under ocean is within a fish run uh we've got a minimum of four foot of water at the end of the float and the AL at mean low water so as no new pilings are proposed in this area area and the float will take advantage of the existing pilings already in place um we did not do a shellfish study as there are no impacts out there proposed a shellfish study two Parcels to the south in 2019 indicated that there was no significant shell fish population out of 36 plots only four cogs were found and the outer reach is 100 feet or so from mean high water a small number of oyes and some rib muscles were observed in the marsh area and can easily be avoided during construction the DP does not map the areas having e grass Peds and we did not observe them on your local regulations um we will uh display a permanently attached sign um uh with the DP permit number and the street address um Pier will be um minimized a blocking again we've got the 1-in spacing and uh 3 and 1/2 ft wide um the existing one will remain at four and but we'll have the 1-in spacing there's no uh impact to existing Moorings um uh the closest moing is is the one that the dods use um the pier with the float will not imped or impact navigation with respect to the channel auning peers or or the any commercial marinas number four decrease shading impacts we've gone over that a couple of times but we've got the one and a half to one across the full extent of the marsh from the bottom of the lowest horizontal Stringer to grade um under 05 under 301 the existing license uh in 1973 was not uh has not interfered with the recreational uses of the river and the additional uh float uh which has again been there for 20-some years will likewise not interfere with boating traffic we feel it's it's well accepted into the the riverine environment at this point in time and just asking for permission for it to remain public rate of Passage proper signage will indicate uh the pier as I mentioned uh your point s uh the pier shall extend landward in line with the current Pier which allows for a nearly perpendicular layout uh so that's acceptable um like is 12T apart Max 25 watts no greater than 2 ft above the deck directed downward not on timers um the section 9 not applicable uh Shar docks it's a it's a private home with an existing licensed Pier um number 10 80 foot length would be not applicable it's currently licensed and there's no increase in length proposed in fact we're pulling in the outermost uh licensed pile so it's somewhat shorter than is permitted now water at the seaword side is uh 4T landward side is no less than 2 and2 and uh that's easily met as I mentioned um float greater than 75t to a buting pi and floats B the existing L portion are not in excess of are in excess of 90 ft to the uh navigable Channel um that's versus 100 but again the pilings that were previously permitted but never in what have been destroyed and not reinstalled since Bob we closer to the channel than the proposed float and we're greater than 250 to a public boat ramp land Landing or swimming beach and the proposed float is greater than 25t to the lot line and at 8X 20 I think we're 160 squ foot that's less than the 200 which we allow um 14 and 15 not applicable no personal watercraft 16 float and kayak dingies remov seasonly and stored an up on portion of the lot or in the contractor's yard is acceptable uh Point 17 sea edge of the proposed float will be 104 ft Beyond me high water which is the land Rd of the current uh license L which is 124 ft from mean high water um the float with attendant ramp allows for much easier access to boats through the range of tied the float will have four foot clearance of substrate at mean low water which is desirable environmentally allowing for Less navigation or excuse me less lesser disturbance of the bottom sediments and keeping the float in the position poses no impact in navigation or other uses of the Waterway to the public I would request the variance to allow the float to be greater than 80 from M high water as it will be no impact whatsoever to any areas subject to protection under these regulations and again I think the the environment has acclimated to it over the the 20 something years that it's been there um non CCA materials will be used for the construction of the dock no creosoted materials allowed uh the dock is not within uh a no do Zone that's your point number 20 uh 20 and 21 um uh not applicable it's not a public project and uh it's not a destroyed Pier um except you know to the extent that we discussed filing for bition to add float current uh on number 22 permit current piles and extend perer landwood for Access and avoidance of marsh impacts and again that's when you get out there it's a lot easier You Don't Have To Cross salt marsh now you'll just have that little 9 foot of uh of impact square foot and then uh no more Footprints uh back and forth daily for repairs of uh greater than 20% the commission should be notified under current uh and performed under current regulations again it's a it's less than that considerably we're just doing the float correct soundings performed within 200 ft not mapped as me as Eel Grass and the uh navigational uh Channel distance is shown is 90 we're 88 ft off our own moing and identified navigational AIDS we're non enf so as an alternative analysis the alternative to do nothing is is not acceptable to the owner they're concerned about future access and the use of their license Pier alternative configurations uh of the extension were explored but the proposed layout takes advantage of the location of the existing pier and will very closely match its appearance uh almost exact except for the landward extension I would say thiser extension um will be an improvement over what currently exists as the applicant family currently must walk across the salt marsh to access it by constructing a pier at 5 and a/4 feet over the salt marsh and providing the 1-in spacing the salt marshes will benefit with the added light penetration the proposed project is approved by Yarmouth waterways in May a waiver is requested from the requirement of 100t Separation to the edge of the channel and the currently the corner of the existing float is about 90 ft to the channel um so um that would be about it again I think it's important big picture to look at this is uh something that's been here for many years the dods have been here since before the wetlands protection act and have enjoyed the property and been good stewards of it and they would desire not to walk as much across the marsh so that's why we're doing the land W extension and just keeping the float licensed or or licensing it where it was rebuilt after Hurricane Bob so I think it's a a pretty straight forward project and would certainly be glad to answer any questions if you have them okay thanks Dan some I've got no issues with this other than the only thing I think you did um as you were running through your through your review of our regulations I think the one thing I did catch you say uh that um the lights were uh on timers and we don't allow timers you need to do put them on switch switch on on both ends so they can be switched on and off uh as needed other than that that's all I have so anybody else on the board actually I'm not it says lights that cannot utilize timers shall be switched at both ends Oh I thought we said I thought we I thought we were saying no time or no timers whatsoever Apparently that is not I would prefer to see see switches on both end not timers I I don't know why I thought we took that out but well um would both be built of suspenders I mean the key is not to have them on when you don't want them and if we're not using it at you know past a certain hour 65 good grief after during the day and at the dark of night you know like after right I presume that's the is that what we're after uh we're actually looking so when you're when you're not using the dock for whatever reason you can the lights are turned off and out so they aren't they aren't creating any kind of light even though they're being directed downward uh the only light I think that's uh on the timer is the light that focuses on the flag when the flag is flying but um it goes up at the flag but I don't know that should that be off at that's a separate matter out over the water you know it's just out over the for the dock itself the dock is no they're only the lights that are there were there just recently for an event and they just plug in they're not even on switch I mean we they have to be plugged in to be used so okay yeah so as long the whole electric service switches off at the house there's a switch there that turns it off I think we're we're hitting the same point here so but it also blind you depending on how it goes anybody else um yeah the piles I think this was brought up at the waterways the piles that are not in use and not installed sted you're not going to put those back in at all with this plan correct correct those are to be eliminated those are to be eliminated on that and uh the other thing I had is the nest is going to be moved off season when the birds aren't going to be there absolutely yeah that's the only two I have ospry will take care of that themselves I think yeah I just one PA first of all um Dan your presentation was kind of interesting it just kind you know to go on and on and on about this is was um it enabled me to get lost you know but the thing is that um this the the project is if I'm understanding straightforward it was out of the property very beautiful property Etc that you want to put a walkway from to connect the in the Upland with the dock and and that was destroyed you were saying that that that um walkway was destroyed during Hurricane Bob or no it it never existed um uh I don't know that the that the ground wasn't remolded a little bit there and maybe made a little bit harder to get out there but the point what was destroyed was those outer piles the boat was ripped off and the pilings were were eliminated at the end of the pier and so then when they rebuilt it they without a license they they just put the two piles back where they are today which is at the end of the float and in board a little bit Yeah but that whole expanse from let's say the backyard to the dock that wasn't there there just our thought now is is it was a special request of the owner so they don't have to walk across the salt marsh to get out to it um it's kind of like an an oddball you know Peninsula and again I get that part of it the thing is I wanted to understand more clearly the the history of it yes and you know I mean it's noted in some notes here that our regulations have a 80ft total maximum length for ducks starting with mean high water and so on um this will extend this whole thing to what length well um again it's not the word extension I would hesitate because that would mean it's going out towards the water it's not going out towards the water at all it's coming back so it's it's uh it's retreating or or connecting back to the lawn um uh 80 ft across a salt marsh 80 ft yeah but all that area isn't out into the water it's just out to the water is how long um that's rough round figures 80 but uh let me see the it's close enough yeah round figures okay so just so I understand what the heck I'm voting on it's a matter of building something over the marsh so they so that you can get to your dock yes okay yeah yeah it's uh yeah and and very importantly licensing the existing ramp and Float which never got a license so the L is all permitted and two out hul piles but that ramp and Float were never permitted but they've been there for since Hurricane Bob so the the river is well acclimated to them you know in terms of people are used to seeing them there and the the use by the owner I understand I'll be very interested to hear what um Britney has to say about this sure thank you we excuse me can I if we license this so the whole EXT extension or going backwards that would all be cockp part of the the pier now instead of just doing the pier and then doing the walkway separately right I mean we could have a one foot Gap but um it's kind of an odd property in that there's kind of a sandbar and then there's salt marsh so um where the ramp starts is out on like a little Cape that that comes from the side and and the middle bowl is all salt marsh so you have to walk around and then over salt marsh to get to it instead we're just going to bridge straight out so we don't have to walk over the salt marsh with our with our feet they're not wanting to walk over the but if we if we split it up we still stay in our regulations of 80 ft that's all I'm trying to yeah we wouldn't be needing a variance on that um so we we wouldn't the existing dock is already longer than 80 ft since it's existed prior to our current regulations it's already 108 ft so and they're asking for another 18 ft so it would be around 10727 yeah the numbers are on the top there I couldn't figure out where i' had written them but yeah from mean high water two I got 210 the extension is about about 18 ft within mean high water the the sea level has changed or the position of the mean high water was changed probably by Hurricane Bob and some other events so it's a little bit of a moving Target but yeah there's another 18 ft that um um wouldn't have been under the existing license there was a 108 ft under 6072 um and then we're going to come back with a ramp about 19 ft to meain high water and then um another 105 of basically a walkway up just across the salt marsh um seems to me that it should be split into different categories only because going off our regulations by 100 quite a bit like 105 ft that's that's a lot well don't forget your regulation is only proud of mean high water they don't talk about back of it and so I thought we were just total length it's from it's it's 80 from mean high water mean high water yeah so it's kind of a freebie to if you're Crossing some odd marshes on on our side so what it is is it's from high water 80 ft out from high water that we're trying to keep within that instead of going back I mean they can if they want to they can build it to the their second story walk out if they want so so nothing in this it's a putting it together is it yeah nothing in this request violates any of our regulations nor normally this like for example if this was presented um if there was no dock out there well it wouldn't be presented most likely wouldn't wouldn't stand muster if if it was a completely new project um because we do have the 80 foot uh but this is a pre-existing licensed tier that is at 10 was it 105 110 ft and then you've still got another 18 ft from the end from the landward end of the pier to the mean high water line so you know we would say from the mean high water line out you would go 8 feet if we were doing this as a new as a new uh proposal yeah but again it's all off because we already have we're already well in exess of what we have in our current regulations for all of the structure below mean high water that make sense yeah and and and the other thing to look ask for is essentially 18 18 more feet of of additional Pier uh below me high water that would connect with the existing start of the pier as it is right now yeah so walk over it's basically walk walk over or board Boardwalk whatever you want to however you want to it is a boardwalk really or something like that that we're talking about over the marsh so that they don't have to walk all the way around and I could see where that would be um because I thought the property that would be difficult but I just want to make sure that um you know uh so you so we're confident that this doesn't violate anything that would be yeah I don't see that if they're they're violating anything like I said it wouldn't it most likely would not pass muster today today if they were if they were coming for what's on the plan right now they most likely would not uh be received favorably but that Boardwalk didn't exist in the the boardwalk did not but that was that's above above being high water it's sound the same yeah so the weirdest part of this whole plan is that salt marsh usually does not exist above mean high water so it's weird that we have some Marsh here above mean high water in such a significant space it's it's big it's there um so that's where looks healthy that's why I mean some of it is is kind of bare but um that's why it's so long because we don't usually have any Marsh above me mean high water yeah it's definitely an odd duck but it it it's like I say there's kind of a sand bar here that gives us the mean high water and then it I think just spring highs you know monthly it it does get back there it's enough to sustain a salt mush I think the other thing that waterways looked at and so forth is there's another Pier right beside here that's exactly the same length so no Hazard of navigation um we have a little bit more water than than you'd require but you know it's it's very well acclimated and that just makes sure we're not stirring up the bottom and and additionally the dods are Avid Sailors they don't do much motoring and so they U they don't stir up the bottom as much but it does work very well to bring that the traran into here um with the currents and so forth it's a nice easy way to navigate and get passengers on and off safely so we sure would appreciate your approval and and again um um it's because it's already there and it's only a modest change um and certainly no change to what's actually on the ground uh we're hopeful that we could get the any waivers requested I think the thing that that's makes it more acceptable in my mind is the fact that it by by creating a boardwalk you're giving them a specific place where they're going to walk it's not going to impact the marsh whatsoever so hopefully the marsh may as TI as sea level increases maybe that Marsh will fill fill in and become more more vibrant MH um but if you don't have the the boardwalk they're going to continue to walk through it and the one thing I can promise you is where you walk you're not going to get salt Mar vegetation it seems to me like a an advantage there yeah uh that could help help the salt marsh sometime into the future as it as sea level rises that's a good point and again so again the only thing that's changing here is this the red here from here to here um everything else is staying the same so just the extension across the salt marsh to get to our lawn without having to walk across all that salt marsh any other questions from the board the only other thing is that we the float is fully within priority habitat and we have not yet received comment from nhp yeah so we have to wait for that anyhow but okay uh any that's it that is all okay anybody in the audience anybody on Zoom all right uh would somebody like to make a motion to continue uh solely for the uh receipt of a natural heritage comment I'll do that ja second is there a date or we just wait for that we'll just try for the 18th that work Dan um I'm I'm out of town but I'll have somebody else come okay 718 for nhp only all right all those in favor opposed vares unanimously thank you all for hearing the proposal I appreciate it all right uh moving on we are now with enforcement uh for theago Paraguay 15 Wadsworth it's unpermitted regrading installation of retaining walls and failure to maintain the work limit line in Riverfront area and the buffer zone to a vegetated wetland are you theago yes I good evening theago parag all right if you would just hold on we're going to get Britney to explain what's going on and then we might have questions for her and then maybe for you yes just a second um back in March a violation notice was sent um due to the observation of unpermitted retaining walls being constructed on this property um they do have an they have an open permit for the construction of the dwelling driveway Etc but there were no retaining walls on that permit um so VI violation notice was sent it was sent to the incorrect address so once we finally were able to get in contact with Thiago we let him know um that we would be seeking an amended order um to have him seek permission for those retaining walls and any other changes that had been constructed that had not been permitted originally the permit is set to expire in August so I also let him know that we would also need an extension request because none of the mitigation planting have yet been installed um so there's a couple of components to this one um but there was just no response to the violation notice um so I required that they attend this meeting so that we can discuss next steps um prior to issuing an enforcement order I have an issue with this too how many times did you reach out to the applicant via email twice um your voicemail box is full just so you know so I cannot leave a message um so we were I was just unable to I did just send him two notices in the mail so here are some of the walls on site there's also an area where it looked like um some concrete had bur spread where the driveways to remain gravel and the other component of the original violation notice which has been remedied since is that part of the work limit line had been destroyed and and there was some sediment in the riverfront area and buffer zone to the Wetland but that has been fixed um the silt fence has been repaired there's still some sediment in the buffer zone to the Wetland um but we can ass the regrowth in the fall and see if planting would be necessary at that time and you said the the house is done now or the house is looks built the inside probably not um the Landscaping is not it's just the Landscaping that that you're waiting on now well and some of the finishes in the interior of the home as well so you're looking for an as buil for this one or yeah so um my initial thought was that they they need to request an amendment because they put in several retaining walls that are not on the approved plan um it would be an after Thea Amendment and they' also need an extension so I think an as built would be a good place to start I do I do remember you thinking about wanting a pool is that still yes and then you can include that request on the amendment as well all right so you just want to do the am the amended order but before you do the amended order you need to get an extension going right yeah both so I would work on the extension first uh get that taken care of uh you're going to have an issue uh because you have it was Robin Willcox who who um stamped this plan and unfortunately Robin is no longer longer with us so we're you're going to have to get a new engineer who will be able to certify the positions of the walls and especially if you're doing a pool um tired ofous but you need to get that done you need to get the extension done first that's the first and foremost because you're you're only you're essentially 30 days away from the deadline we normally ask for it for the extension to be be uh asked for 30 days before it expires it's going to expire what do we say August 23rd August 23rd so that doesn't give you a lot of time uh so I would I would get an engineer on board at least for the extension get them get them to do the extension request and then after the extension request has been has been um filed then they can start working on the amended order um but I would also ask that the extension request be made by 20 you said 23rd of August was the expiration date yeah so he would have to request by July 23rd by July 23rd and that's not something we're going to give any kind of lenience on okay you need to have that have the extension in the extension request in by by July 23rd do you have an engineer that you're working with yet so I'm I'm meeting with um uh Merill engineering um say it again um Merill engineering they're out of uh Plymouth okay I believe ducksbury on the 27th [Music] okay so you're you're sure you're you're definitely have a meeting with him though right is that correct that's correct okay all right any other questions from the board do you want to put Mr chairman I must tell you this is just me speaking but I am so sick and tired of applicants coming before us and giving us the gee I didn't know I didn't understand proceeding with a very significant part of this project that was not permitted I would recommend that this these walls be removed and this applicant start with an application to see if this can get permitted I really we I can't even count how many times over the years we've had to say to applicants that you know you're excuse that you don't know and don't understand and you proceed without an application for me is unacceptable I'm tired of it I'm really tired of it you know you want to come to us next and ask for a pool but you have these significant structures that we put in I say remove them that's what I say but I'm just one vote so who did the work I I did the work myself you did the work so so you knew you had an order of conditions correct it yes um so the sil fence was actually because of erosion it was kind of destroyed it's very close to the the say like very close to the wall limit there destroyed a few times and you know the remedy that you know and I I apologize for this but that at the time I thought would have been you know a better fix W putting up the wall um so the wall matches the the work limit line not just the wall it's walls uh plural does the does the resource most wall match the work limit line or does it match is it is it beyond the work limit line no so the walls so he's describing erosion that would come down slope and this has accumulated this is from March it accumulate to the sil fence and basically open the fence um by the time I was there the walls were in place but the walls are Upland of the sil fence so but that's we know that's the correct position for the for the work lemon line yes that's correct okay and so the sediment had accumulated and washed over the sil fence it had come that deep that the sediment topped a 2 and 1 half foot Silt Fence well I mean I'm sorry there's no reason to there is no reason to allow those Sil fences to to get overwashed and not not correct them and I I mean that's that's standard construction practice so I I did correct them um probably over like a half a dozen times so how when you say you corrected them what did you do well I brought them back up and then I also um put in a new fence after but you didn't move them no I did not move them um I left the existing one there it's still in place um but if you if you do look at like the property next door to this they have also issues with erosion B based on like the elevation that the property's built um in order to have the septic system in the front of the property uh that's like one of the issues with I would say the first three properties on the left side as you enter the neighborhood okay so I'm including my including I don't think we're arguing that there's an erosion issue I think the problem is that the that you need to good point you need to be addressing what's on your site okay let's not worry about and like I said we're we're not we're not arguing the fact that there's no erosion or there is there is erosion clearly there is erosion clearly you you understand that uh the question is my I mean my bigger question was about the wall uh and where it in relation to relationship to the work limit line uh where that where that worked out so the walls are inside the sil fence yeah there's pretty much three walls on this side and two walls on this side and they also so the question I have then for you is like if you had the order of conditions and you are the contractor and you have a plan of record and on that plan of record you don't see any I can retaining wall you're correct that the the only thing that I have to say is that the retaining walls in the pattern follows the original Landscaping slope but I get that because that's how you would lay out the the the retaining walls I'm not saying that the the layout of the retaining wall was was incorrect either I'm just saying if you are the contractor you have an order of conditions you have a plan of record and you no weere on that planet record do you have any retaining wall so one of the conditions in the order of conditions says any change of plan needs to come back to conservation and you didn't do that you're you're correct yes Mr chairman I'm going to be leaving all right you were right I'm never wrong I'm never how dare you um have a good evening so I you know I get I get commissioner Bishop's frustration and I'm I'm kind of with it but at the same time I mean I guess the problem is we don't have any we don't have any penalty I mean we can we can issue $300 citations and everything that's fine unfortunately we don't have any way of charging an after Thea filing fee [Music] so we're going to say okay file the notice of intent and we're going to give you the wall I mean I I don't see why we would not give them the wall but I would say they would also be coming up with some healthy mitigation for that as well Mr chairman um I I certainly understand um commissioner Bishop's frustration we run into this quite a bit um the thing that strikes me is that the enormous amount of work the enormous amount of f money that went into this kind of thing to build those walls and you know um I think the chairman has um represented what has to be done about it one of my questions though is do these kinds of things these walls that are built on property like this have to go before the building department is there any is there any um interchange more than 4T above from the what is it from the footing yes to the top of wall if it's more than four feet then it has to go to building building building department comes over they don't look at any plans um at all I'm not trying to point the finger I'm just trying to understand I think they would look at a plan have a plan but they would they wouldn't give the homeowner um the contractor heads up that hey you're going to run into trouble with this well I don't think you ever file for with with building department for the walls did you the walls are not over 4T but don't doesn't the building department have to go and do inspections on this property for other things and don't they see things that are happening and maybe have a question when they look at the the plans that were approved by the by the Conservation Commission maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about but the things that seem seems it's this egregious um uh you know action but it gets all it gets all it puts it puts everybody in a bad situation you know again the work the the money the everything else that goes along with this is is significant and at no point in time did did the homeowner or that the town say hey wait a minute you got to stop here for a second that doesn't happen I guess well we tried in March well yeah we you tried and he didn't respond but the thing is that was after the fact too that was you're house was what up in March yes you're contacting him after these things are up this is true there's no way for us to know about most of this stuff and the building department does bring me more things than David does so they do talk to me about a lot of violation oh they do okay all right but sometimes we just don't have it on the schedule I know it gets complicated between the apartments and everything but it's so unfortunate people find themselves in this particular situation you know um sometimes people do it I guess just because they think they could do it and sometimes they do it because they're mistaken about it so you know I don't know it's just just too bad but you can't tell me those those walls aren't 4 feet from the footing they are they absolutely are they're five at least five there's no way those those walls are under four feet four feet from four feet so anything any any retaining wall over four feet from the bottom of the retaining by the from the bottom of the footing to the top of wall has to get a building permit and you didn't get a building permit for the walls from grade there at grade from I'm not sure about I thought it was from the foot I thought it was from the footing pretty sure it's from the foot you're saying bottom of footing yeah top of FO well we can ask them but they're not here way are are you over 4T off over grve yeah I I didn't see this one are you over four well that's a good point yeah but you also have to be a very experienced Mason I mean that's beautiful work but you know so I I don't know why so wait a minute maybe I better check with somebody and see if I could do this that's that's the thing that's frustrating well three four five six that one's even taller my other my other question is like have you been before us with other projects no sir I have no and where before as far the he he looked familiar and so I was wondering if you've been been before is with other projects that's all only time I've been here was with Rob this originally when you came in originally for the for the okay yeah well I don't think we're going to resolve this except at for him talking to the company and they're coming back with a engineer firm you mean so I think it's up to them to and the building department too and whatever the engineer is going to recommend if he has to go to The Bu building department the engineer will know I mean I think you should go and talk to the building department and just let them know and that there this happened and then sharing is caring that's what Brad always tells me they'll find we'll find out once for all what the exact uh exact the regulation is that way but and so the as built plan just to be clear should show um existing elevations as well um because there's some burm some bming up on the side that's also pretty significant um for you and your Southern neighbor that was not originally permitted as well can we continue no you if you so we need to do um if you want the rest of the board to consider that you need to make a motion oh okay like to make a motion that we remove the ask um require that the the unpermitted and un um approved walls be removed I will second so all those in favor of removing the walls say I I you're have to let me let me do it by hand so all those in favor of removing the the uh the walls raise your hand and not not to move the move the walls one two three okay you're not voting I think it's time to resign it doesn't matter I know I believe removing the walls would cause even more environmental damage yeah I mean my only like I said my only reasoning for not doing is just again I I really get the frustration of it and I still don't know that we shouldn't be issuing a $300 fine just for I mean I would I would say we would at least need to do at least one $300 fine for failing to uh to adhere to the uh order of conditions and you can pick whichever order condition you want to put whichever condition you want to put on it as to which one they didn't they didn't uh adhere to but um but ultimately we would we would approve those we would approve those uh those walls so well that's not a get is that we proove the walls I mean he still has to come back with the plan no they have to come back yeah I mean it's like given yes so I need to see the plan now they I mean they are they are permittable let's put it that way I should say it that way okay if and if the board says otherwise then I guess we will we will be moving or they will be removing them okay so I I guess I would be interested in um further uh consideration of what somebody might think to be a solution to this problem as opposed to just tearing everything down right now well I would be moving forward do an ASB built plan come back and get the extend issue a issue a citation come back with an amended order within 30 days of the extension is what I would say so by August 23rd so move right and then they should also be looking into uh mitigation for oh wait what's the let me line is what is it undisturbed in the 50 is the 50 undisturbed I should say 50 is where we're within the 100 little undisturbed yeah yeah the work limit line is land word yeah the work limit Line's here but I'm just saying there this is not it's not like grass or or something over here in the 50 Foot Right no it's undisturbed all right so we don't even have mitigation then so so as constructed do you think those walls will allow for equipment to get in and constructed pool guess we're going to find that find out aren't we yeah we are yeah I I think it's a good question that guess it depends on where you put the where you put the the pool too so so just an edit August 22nd is a deadline day so that should be when the amended order is due extension amended order that's [Music] it second the summer and the amended order will have the right the amended order will have the the uh as essentially the As buil and then whatever pool whatever proposal okay we and what about the fine has that been taken off the table no that's included in the three things okay you want to do the fine right yes and it was moved and seconded all the favor all opposed carried unanimously the $300 fine for failure to sign sign the enforc oh and we will yes I will sign and we will um also finalize this then with the ratification of the uh enforcement order which covers all of the things that we've just discussed the extension the uh amended order of the fine Mr chairman you have somebody in the audience when you're ready ready uh we don't take public comment on on enforcement orders I wasn't aware of that again we don't take any public comment uh from from the public that it's it's not a it's this is not a an open hearing for that okay so when does a neighbor get to does a neighbor have the opportunity the neighbor will have the opportunity when they come back with the notice of intent the amended so when they come they come back for the for the walls and the pool got it okay so and you should be are you in the direct a butter yes so you you would get a notification then okay uh extension um amended order we hav we voted on that yet and yeah we just need to [Music] order would somebody make a motion to to ratify the enforcement order so moved second Jack sure okay all those in favor I opposed carries unanimously so was the first V vote just the contents of the enforcement vote was on the wall the second one was on the contents uh fine citation citation and then the third vote is to ratify the enforcement order that will cover the extension the amendment and that's it and the citation you with me yes thank you okay I will send you an email with all of those things in addition to a hard copy mailed to your address you can let me know if you have any questions thank you okay so and make sure you you pay attention to those those uh deadlines because if you miss those deadlines you're going to be looking at $300 fine every day until you've until you meet it it's the uh July 23rd and August 22nd correct yeah right yep thank you okay right next order of business another enforcement hearing for Michael seran uh 53 ant Doris lane unpermitted construction of a dock and land under the ocean salt marsh and land sub Coastal storm Flowage Mr chairman I'd like to rec recuse myself from this hearing all right let the record show that commissioner Huggins recused himself okay so 53 ant D's Lane is AB budding fallin's Pond it was brought to my attention by a boater that a new dock was installed um on fallin's pond at a very low elevation on top of the marsh I could not tell from aerial imagery that this had been in place prior um so I issued an enforcement order for an unpermitted dock I thought it was a brand new dock um it has in fact been in place for quite some time um since 1999 is when they got their first interim approval from the waterways division although they never got a Wetlands permit the property has also transferred ownership and so the interm approval was never recorded under the new owner so it is expired um so the contents of the enforcement order just said that required that the unpermitted dock be removed and that's all it said because I thought there was never a dock there prior upon further investigation the homeowner visited me today in the office I realized that it had been in place for a while um but under our current regulations would never be permitted at such a low elevation and when did you say this was done this was the work was to put them the permit the permit went through in what waterways approval it's an interm approval from 1999 um it was a 30-year but the never came through us it never came through Wetlands yeah and the property has also transferred um and the interim approval requires that it you have a year after transfer to um reapply and they did not do that so the interim approval is also expired it as my understanding not a waterways specialist but that's what I understand from what the waterways license says yeah so it went through the 91 not through conservation did get hour water it was hour waterways or it was just just water 91 [Applause] okay yeah it's only good for 30 years so yeah and Blue Rock Marine is um built the new it's a new dock the pilings I think the are the pilings new as well or just the Dock dock um some of the pilings okay some pilings are new but all the surface and the floats are also new but there is um the permeable the decking the grading graded decking is being used I really can't believe 91 actually land drawn actually approved this but my eyes they are the proof yeah so here's the well I mean so we're looking to get for them to get a a new new approval all the way around both from 91 and us so you have to file new notice of intent that what you're asking I would believe that is the path forward that would be the way to go uh I got to tell you I am not real inclined to go with that ex those extended floats going out into the into the water like that I though you should consider that when you're when you're talking to your engineer about getting the the permitting and the and the original or the proposed plan I just replaced what was there actually I made the floats even shorter understand extended out 50 some odd feet this is 48 but you were only given approval for 20 right no given approval for I believe 52 ft does that not say foot right there uh can I see yeah it says 20 foot or am I looking at the wrong you might be looking at something different I one two three there's three floats got 12 four actually or four floats and a 12T ramp I see 48 12 24 36 yeah 52t so this is shorter but that's not this is the 91 permit [Music] [Applause] mm and I see 40t of float and a 12 12 12 24 16 40 feto floats beyond the stationary right it doesn't matter because it's expired I mean that I don't I guess I I I that's the precisely I I don't I'm just I'm just trying to give you a piece of advice that if you come back with this plan I'm not going to not even I'm not going to entertain it so that's just that's just me there's there will be seven Commissioners here I'm just saying I think you can do better than what was done in 1990 I tried to do better actually um I had the old wooden floats with the styrofoam they were all beaten up um in a weather storms whatever so I tried to go with the the was it polypropylene things I thought which lets the sunlight in and whatever I appreciate all that I'm just saying you did exactly what the plan said and I I I appreciate your efforts to to change up for for modernization but I think you can still do it slightly better looks brand new is it relatively new it's brand new yeah brand new I just had it done that and and basically I was told I didn't I didn't even have to seek a permit cuz it was replacement and so I guess I was told Wrong by two two contractors um yeah you should know better unfortunately sometimes they just don't pay attention to 91 if the see they they don't look too hard yeah and that's what's in the water to stop the the floats from moving side to side um there's there's pilings that these are can of levered off of and that's how they were before too so they don't actually they were going to put a piling to at the end cuz there was a piling there at one time but um I decided I really didn't want to disturb things so here I am thinking I made a major Improvement uh you know ecologically uh didn't disturb any vegetation basically um how deep is it at the end of the water at the end of the float like a low tide I'm not sure Rick I really don't know it's probably at low tide yeah but no God no 6 feet 7 feet maybe really yeah six feet off the edge there wow yeah and then the tides have changed a lot since they opened up the uh railroad bridge railroad bridge so that was Bry how many towns have you tried to reach out oh no this is the first time he responded great thank you with very short notice done everything we I just heard well my son just heard and sent me the thing and said we have a a meeting this Thursday at which like I think four days so I appreciate your your quick response with that so it's my option I I would suggest that we issue the the enforcement order we ratify the enforcement order to create a to have you issue a or apply for a notice of intent to relicense basic or you're going to be doing a brand new license because the old license expired uh but you would come up with a new plan for and I think you can probably just make that a little bit better um better in which way notice of intent uh regardless even even if you were going to come back with the same the exact same footprint you would have to still file notice of intent in order to uh re I don't want to I don't want to keep saying re regulations yeah to to basically go you need to go back to to waterways because the license has expired so you need to get a new license from waterways from chapter 91 and you also have to come through conservation and get an order of conditions to do that as well which was never done this just be giving them the 30 year total 30 years 30 years would need a new one years was it or or 90 was was there a 99 year thing too there was for a time yeah I don't think they do think that was I this was a tried to do the thing this was an interim approval so it was valid for 30 years that's that's what you're three Z yeah 3 and so to make it better um it would have to conform to our current regulation since a rebuild of a dock is considered new construction actually and that would probably require elevation there you go Pat you know your you know your dog stuff what' you say this particular uh configuration a transferred so it's this is an interim approval valid for 30 years from the date of issuance if the affected property is transferred to a new owner for valuable consideration this approval shall expire one year from the date of transfer yeah that's why I'm saying it's expected so yeah so you need to that's why they need a new one yeah just the ownership just transferred you did a transfer in 2008 as well to a trust I think did you say so you did I did I tried to do my homework right before my kid out of the house now you need to get yourself an engineer uh the engineer will will prepare a notice of intent uh you can decide on however you want to however you want to apply you can for whatever configuration you know that's that's something you need to just speak to your engineer about and how how he how you want to have them present it uh you'll file a notice of intent with conservation and also at the same time he'll file file the licensing with uh chapter 91 waterways as well it's just State it's the state permit okay so in other words I just had this built I got to re re redo something different you may be able to use parts of it yeah it just what what like be aware of the new regulations what are they I don't I guess they'll find out talk talk to your your engineer will come out they'll they'll do a quick survey to see exactly what the what the site conditions are and then they'll get you back in in um compliance as quickly as possible but it's going to be I mean waterways [Music] permit it's not it's not like you're going to go out there and get it in two weeks from now uh but it'll you you you'll get this permit the the Conservation Commission permit uh long before you get your waterways permit but once you get it then you'll be a from conservation you'll be able to start start your um start your building okay does he have to take those yeah so this can stay in while we're filing these can you say it again I'm sorry this will can stay as is for the time being while we file the notice of intent what say you sayne I would I don't vote I mean personally I would allow you to keep it because it's been the exact same thing that's been there since whatever it was 1999 or whatever it was and where do you guys store your floats in the offseason store them up in the yard thank you yeah I mean I think it's just this was a unfortunate an unfortunate uh set of circumstances that because they they seem to have done everything yeah they think they were supposed to being Inc so when did you take over the house were here I've lived there since [Music] 1994 and I guess just transferred ownership through from a trust to in January you should say something to the people that you worked with didn't give you a heads up on this you don't see him here do you who who Blue Rock Marine um and I did do you know them no never heard were they Blue Rock Marine I went through uh I had one quote from lmco which I'm sure you heard of them y they said they didn't think I needed a permit okay and then I went with um Travis husband who's whatever the name of the company as I just know when he was in high school NE and does beautiful work and um he said it's just you're just replacing it if anything you're making the pier short the Dex the pier shorter putting in something that the sunlight can get through I mean it's like noce is kind of kicking the teeth to say the least kind of odd that he knows the key wordss to say and yet yes he he knows that he he doesn't have to look for a 91 contractor not oh yeah I'm sorry not you I'm I'm I'm talking about your about the contractor he I did Issue alongside the enforcement order since I was under the impression that this was a brand new DOC never to having being existed before I did Issue a $300 fine to the homeowner um just that was part of the enforcement order you would prefer we may route that give me something here when did you write it that's I'm I'm going to leave that up to you on the day on the 12th I'm GNA LIF that up to you Britney we have a motion to would somebody like to make a motion to ratify the enforcement order with the oh we I guess we should put a date in there um you're going to need probably four months we'll give you four months and then if you have if you're having issues make sure you come back to us before that but I think you know what we're supposed to do I have no clue the I'm going to get it in a i me it's you're going to need to get a an engineer involved with it um you know who I'm but either way uh an engineer is going to take realistically it's going to be four months before you can get a plan uh put together by a by an engineer so yeah but like I said you're you're allowed to move forward with all of this and you're allowed to keep the keep it as it is um what's I I didn't mean to interrupt but like what what am I going to what do you do raise raise the floats I mean they'll they'll the engineer will make a recommendation for a a fixed structure out to a certain point in the water within our regulations and then engineer will do engineer the engineer we have to have a fixed structure we our regulations are such that uh there'll be there'll need to be a a wooden dock structure that goes out a certain amount based on our regulations and then one or possibly two floats at the end of it within our regulations you have a fixed short one yeah because I that's fixed right now right the part that's over the marsh that's all fixed and that stays permanently right yeah it's brand new correct but it was there I mean it was there as a right but we don't typically approve three floats like that no no no I'm saying the the fixed portion he was asking about the fixed portion no I was talking about the floats I've always there's always been floats there and yeah I mean we we would not because you're well again whatever the engineer is going to take care of all of that he's going to look at everything you're allowed a maximum of 200 square feet of float um but he's going to look at everything in including floats uh the amount of floats the amount of fixed uh uh pier and he's going to be looking at at water depths everything as well so shelfish and he'll yeah he'll he'll he'll do the whole package for for the notice of intent so everything that you'll need to do for the notice of intent thank you and again I I I wish wow I wish we didn't have to do it this way but uh it it never received permitting from the Conservation Commission you know way back when U and you're expired on the on the waterways permit so you have to do it either way so do you have an email address I do would you mind writing it down for me sure all right so would somebody like to make a motion don't move with the four months okay all those in favor I opposed there's unanimously [Music] sorry thank you I'll email you over the enfor order and also mail it to you um it'll have okay thanks BR appreciate it thank you all right thank you again for coming in I appreciate the fast the Fast Response 702 yeah thanks for listening all right next order of business uh the approval of meeting minutes for May 16 2024 Rick and Pat are not allowed to vote on this yes two three four would somebody like to make a motion not rth or mat or Pat is this the one which one is date May May 16th is that the one where we considered the I've not seen that emailed last week say that again this is this is the new one this is the one that he had had issues with before or is this yes 16 and you made yeah so you made the you made the changes that he asked I wasn't at the meeting but Finn whoever Finn I have not seen that so also it is important to note that the minutes are not a transcription of events they are a summary of the discussions yeah well there was no summary at all of a discussion the questions asked or there is I'm sorry there is a summary of the discussion that we had I would that differ thank you we can't include every question asked especially when there was no questions that were asked in the discri the minutes that I saw there was no people quoted I think I think Britney's point is is that we don't always quote everything that's asked my point yeah to summarize at least when I are we talking about the same we're talking about the re the charge recharge yes there was a discussion about the mounding the discharge the wetlands monitoring and those were all included in the minutes I have not seen those they were sent out last week question all right so well if you did well I I'd preferred to see him before because I think this is one of the more important no I'm sorry but you you're sure that you sent them out right I well I know you I know you I saw you I saw you s sent I didn't look to see what they were but yeah okay uh it's been moved is there a second he second second Jack second do you still want to second that I didn't second oh I move somebody else who can second it Paul would you would you second it yep all right it's been moved and seconded all those in favor say I I opposed no okay three to one and then we have the other one was it June 6th June 6th look at these minutes oh I'm sorry in June 6th which have everybody can vote on everybody can vote on that would you like to make a motion to yes is there a second on June 6th second all those in favor I opposed yes I haven't seen him get in the email that's an abstain in the email or abstain abstain okay so one two three five to one five with one exstension all right we are moving up to Wastewater update I will give you the cliff notes version um then you can ask questions if you want do do the cliff note to the cliff note um so you know I've been going to the meetings um we have six contracts uh first contract one is is the uh plant uh the bid is going out the general bid is going out at the end of uh August um I don't understand all of this but the sub bid is going out the end of July so it means that we got permission from D to go out to bid which is good everything is supposed to be done by the October 31st deadline so that we can get the money that was supposed to get from the state so that's moving along the issue is where to put all the all the 1.3 million gallons from phase one contract one is different than phase one phase one is all these six contracts I'm going to talk about and right now they have 370,000 that's G per gallons per day 370,000 gallons going to Buck Island and 250,000 going to Bayberry golf course which gives you 620,000 so you can still there's still places they're still looking they're still discussing with d on the fact that Cape is much different than other places in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and and that if they have keep these standards of only allowing I think it's 1.1 in of waste of water that nobody on Cape cod's going to be able to meet that so um they're hoping that the D sees that and moves on contract two which is routs 28 anything on Route 28 is stopped till Labor Day they did get an extension into uh June uh but the Long Pond to Main Street is going to continue as well as some other side streets Buck Islands if you've been driving Buck Island they've already started that too um the bidding for contract 4 which is the bridge Bass River Bridge Bridges happening any day now I hope and that'll that'll go start soon too contracts 5 and six which is west of Parker River um they're hoping the bid will go out in August is what's hoped for um and um and if it is that'll start too so it's moving along um which is all I can say there have been some issues I'm sure Britney knows some of them uh whether they uh hit a uh the wires because the back of the truck stayed up as he was driving down Route 28 or whether it was um broken pipes water pipes but uh you know those are some some of those happen normally internet or something right yeah that's why we lost power that day so there a oil spill um so that's it I mean the people we work the people the town is working with are great um so are the um so the people people who are in the town who are overseeing all this very very very impressed with all of them a lot of the you know if I was them i' be super frustrated they're very good about not showing that so well at least to Me Maybe definitely when they private but so that's it that's the cliffnotes version and the order conditions went out for that for the project right yes and no we have not been appealed no blowback from anybody on the monitoring time no good so that's it that was that was the quickest version I can give that was a very good and succinct I appreciate your brevity thank you any other questions from the board on that hopefully I'm here to remind you that there is no meeting on July 4th 2024 so if you were planning on showing up don't or you can but so the meeting will be the 11 no it'll be on the 18th 18th 18th uh could I just make a plea for does Finn have a key to the building yes so there was a misunderstanding we kind of fig did the inside door he did the inside door there's a latch he locked that he understands now that he has to lock the outside door as well oh the uh there there you go I didn't I didn't even know the the inside door could lock yeah neither did I until that's what like that well so you will have Finn again on the 18th but I him to give his key also needs to know that he's got to wait until everybody's out right yeah he was the last one to leave yeah he was definitely the last one to leave I I saw him leaving for yeah you guys are in the parking lot still the last one to leave the building which is why I knew we were in trouble CU I'm sitting there like oo that's not good all right I move to J is there a second yep 72 all those in favor opposed wish Britney a happy wedding yes yay