##VIDEO ID:vNBdFIZDjP0## it's just not five yet uh welcome everybody to the regularly state of meeting of the Yarmouth Conservation Commission today's meeting is for Thursday January 2nd 2025 this is to formally advise that is required by General Law chapter 38 sections 18 through 25 and pursu to chapter 20 of the act of 2021 an act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency signing the law on June 16 2021 is extended by chapter 2 of the act of 2023 the Yarmouth Conservation Commission will hold a public meeting at the date and time noted above public is welcome to attend either in person or via the alternative Public Access provided uh again this is the Yarmouth Conservation Commission meeting for Thursday January 2nd 2025 our first order of business is a request for determination of applicability Joseph and Sheila pandolfo 36 Shor Side Drive a proposed addition deck and driveway in land subject to Coastal storm Flowage Karen good evening Mr chairman members for the record my name is Kieran Healey I'm a land surveyor with the BSC group with me tonight is the owner of the project uh Mr Joe pendal um as mentioned on the opening there we are proposing to do some modifications to this proper proper we're looking to uh replace remove and replace a deck on the Westerly side we're looking to fill in a garage that's on the easterly side and add a garage in some living area on the north side of the property um the only resource here is the uh flood zone there are no Wetlands within 100 ft of the property uh we're proposing a minimum amount of fill just to bring the driveway up to get into the new garage elevation um and other than that it's a pretty straightforward just modification to the existing site be glad to answer any questions that you may have okay and the um the driveway is perious driver P I spoke to Britney earlier about that um if we do choose to go or decide to go for an impervious one we understand that we would have to come back in front of the board and request all right great all right uh any questions from the board no no no Britney anything no just prvious driveway and disposal of this fil um off site once the project is completed most definitely yes okay anybody in the audience have any comments questions on this one does anybody have any uh anybody on uh Zoom have any questions comments raise your hand digitally I see none um I'm just curious what the plastic patio what is that it's kind of so what I did is it's really like a dance Floy so I I wanted to put something down instead of putting the furniture on the grass it was a temporary just did it this summer and I didn't want to do anything permanent because I knew I'd be doing this and they knew I had to go to conservation so great thanks that that's what they use when you have it like in a wedding or something I went online and they're pretty good pretty stable to walk on everything okay thanks okay anybody else plus there's further discussion would somebody like to make a motion for a negative -2 so move so moved okay and was there a second all second all those in favor I opposed car unanimously thank you Mr chairman thank you members thank you very much and compliment to Britany and her new guy Joe she does a great job she really does I've been doing this for 50 years I've been all over I'm in construction so I've dealt with a lot of departments she doign ni yeah made it really easy for me saying Yarmouth is the best one you've ever been to sure okay I'm very serious because conservation is a tough one you know people don't like conservation people so I'm serious but she's great so I appreciate thank you we feel this thing yes thank you very much all right thank you our next order of business is a notice of intent for SE 83 D sorry yeah sorry SE 83 I forgot which town I was in uh e 883-2414 poan knet Road Drive propos new construction of a single family dwelling and land subject to Coastal storm Flowage and the buffer zone to a vegetated wetland good evening Mr chairman again for the record my name is Kieran Healey I'm a land surveyor with the BSC group representing the owner of the property um about uh three and a half years ago four years ago we were in on this particular site and we received an all conditions to build a house and a single car garage this is pretty much exactly the same with the exception that it's a two-car garage the footprint of the house is almost identical the porch and the patio and the rear pretty similar the septic system is in the same location the driveway the drainage all of the items that were bought in for the previous Auto conditions and approved by the town are um incorporated into this filing as well um we're proposing a p this driveway the primary reason for that is that the existing grade out of the street is at elevation 6 6 and a half and the garage slab is at 113 so that's a rise of 5T and with crushed stone you really can't drive up in without spinning out the wheels and kicking up those stones every time so we proposed a pelvis driveway and then at the bottom we're proposing a trench drain to capture any water that may come down and we have a an infiltration system just to the sou of the driveway way to capture anything that might come onto that driveway um the the site itself has Wetlands to the north and one of the lagoons is over on the Westerly side um we do go into the 50 Foot setback a little bit with the parking area for the two cars we've minimized it as much as we could but it's the only way to get it kind of a t out on the property um so that's the only area that's within you can see it's kind of cut into the green area for the proposed landscape right there that Britney is identifying on the screen um other than that everything is outside the 50 Foot buffer and I'll be glad to answer any questions that you may have okay questions from the board what uh on the pave driveway you're saying it's what kind of Swope it's a um it goes from ele three at the garage down to Elevation six at the street so that's pretty and what are they proposing on the instead of that what kind of uh is it going to be proposing we're we're proposing by two minuts pavement black top and they recognize the and that's perious you said no that is impervious that's why we're putting the trench drain at the bottom okay we capture anything that would run down then anybody else are there any um trees there going to uh stay like the one in the front of the house yeah just the one in the front of the house we had I discussed that earlier with Britney and apparently um that one is going to have to be removed and um the potential orders um of conditions tonight would be to replace that and we're perfectly fine with that being a recommendation and I we would just be asking for two to one since it's a many stem tree and you can put it in the existing mitigation area but we'll just do a condition so you don't have to provide a revised plan great and we can put it in the proposed mitigation area yeah that would be great first time I worked on the site was in 1999 so it's been around for a few years okay anybody else Britney anything else nope that's all thank you anybody in the audience on this one anybody on Zoom if there's no further discussion from the board would somebody like to make a motion to approve the plan uh with special conditions second I'll second it all those in favor opposed there unanimously and thank you Mr chairman thank you members thank you thanks Karen C is um we're all easy except for Powers right okay so I'm going to do powers Lane first through the coc's the certificat of compliance uh so first one is a request for certificate of compliance for SE 83214 great Island Ocean Club poers Lane Road improvements review for we're reviewing we have reviewed this for um I think down Cape was going to be here for this one um and I don't see them here so do you want to do the other ones first not that it'll get them more than two minutes that's right that's that's not somebody hanging around is it all right well I will table this for for the time being uh although we're not not going to be here much longer I don't think I'll give them just enough time to uh to come in here uh otherwise I will move on to easy certificates um we have request for certificate Appliance for SE 83229407807 1894 Malcolm Nolan 64 White Cedar Road and SE 883-2356 SC 83-1 1544 SC 831 1894 and SC 883-2356 I gave it to Bradford I saw I saw Paul there we'll we'll spread the the love out all right all those in favor opposed carries unanimously Jaren good night know that they should be here to discuss this item and it will be putting that one on hold then didn't hear anything that they wouldn't be here okay so this first one for white theater there are two signatures that you need to do are you all here for p Lane are you here for PW Lane okay that just passed okay so you're you're all good to go both of them yes both of them passed so I can mail them to you unless you'd prefer to pick them up what do you would you have I wanted to okay I'll mail them to you thank you Paul could you check in the 194 pocket uh notice is there a certificate of compliance signature sheet underneath should be underneath on the front clip to the front front board no front on the front of the F folder is there another one underneath that no wait a minute yes there is okay sign that and send it back this way please thank you second yeah thanks all right so this is the last call for great Island Ocean Club the representative is not here and there are issues with this one uh so what I would like to do is I'll just table this to the 16th right yeah I guess so all right so I'm I'm tbling uh SE 83214 I thought I got this January 16th all right so I'm sorry so my system my drive they know problem they know what they've done this one's got to go that way they missed so um if you would review the engineered letter sent from the engineer they don't they don't see that the pro that the work that was completed is causing here he is jeez all right stand by sorry we had a very quick Speedy beginning of the meeting yeah Dean oela from down engineering I wrote the letter on this one and if you guys have any questions I'd be glad to address it do you need to read it back into the record yes I do yeah we all right so hold on for just one second we're doing a request for certificate of compliance um this is for se8 3-24 great Island Ocean Club Powers Lane Road improvements and we're here because we're we have some uh issues with um a violation of special conditions it's the that's the flooding that we're talking about right yeah for okay potential violation of the special right do you want to say anything first or should we just sure um the issue was um brought up previously by homeowners in the neighborhood reporting flooding um the road work was completed around 2018 early 2019 and the um it was just to pave an additional portion on the top of Po Lane to increase the the road roadway and um a portion of pavement was patched in front of a speed bump um which is the owner is was reporting that she was seeing more flooding and she thought it was due to that pavement patch so we sent them an enforce order to get the certificate of compliance moving along so that we could see an as built plan showing spot elevations in areas um and the as built plan doesn't show major deviations from elevations in the area on the roadway um so that's what had in Dan's letter um it says that in their opinion the drainage flow would not have been substantially Changed by the patch and the pavement although there is another um tiny issue um the beach grass was supposed to be planted on the north side of the road um and it does not appear to have been planted just on one property at two poers lane um so this is not stabilized so it will have to be planted with Beach Grass this season in order to stabilize this sand area yeah that if you want to have that as an ongoing condition would' be happy to maintain that the a lot of depending on how bad the winter storms are you can get a lot of sand blowing across the road and it's kind of an active area but uh we can certainly uh put some more plugs in there on that on that north side yeah it looked like the other properties were well vegetated it was just this property that was loose loose sand um and here's a photo from today of the the pavement patch we're talking about it is it is very flat um and the speed bump would kind of prohibit water from flowing down that that driveway yeah it's it's a situation where we didn't really do any work near that driveway whatsoever uh it's only on the other side of the speed bump from the driveway so I can't really see how it could have impacted it um hardly at all if anything and in addition addition um the original um developer retained rights to drain the road in the shoulder anyway so even if we did increase it a very slight amount I think it's well within the rights to drain along the edge so and you can see from the grades there that it's a very small area of road because the high point is basically the speed bump all the water that's to the north there's a tiny bit of that works in towards her side but almost everything else goes to the east uh and north um the intersection is low lower than her driveway um as soon as you get past that little way there everything's pitched to the north so it's not very much water um you know there's there's no question there's a slight puddle in her driveway the pavers have settled over the septic and I'm not arguing that there's a little puddle there but I'm just saying that's not you know because we didn't do anything in front of there um I don't think it's the fault of the association and they are allowed to drain a little bit in there anyway I would agree so it would just be up to the commission if you would um accept an ongoing condition waiting for planting or if you'd like to table until June the first meeting in June so that we can see that they've done the planting but up to the board how big an area is it again could you show me for the planting it's just all along the front of two Powers Lane um BS 30 feet they planted the rest this is where it starts you can see in the aerial here from 2019 that area there some sand had blown out onto the road I'm sure that probably didn't help but the others seem to be maintaining well so I'm sure with some plugs in there that would uh that would do well it's uh up to you folks would um obviously the most of the work has been complete for a while now it wouldn't hurt to wait or if you want to close it out with just a note to follow up that's fine as well whatever you'd like to do I think I would be inclined to hold on and wait to plant and then I would certainly encourage doing us a an ongoing condition for for maintaining the beach grass planting but I think we should wait I think it's going to be hard to plant that to be honest with you the slow yeah I mean I'm hoping so you're talking about excuse me you're talking about small plugs and yeah Beach Grass plugs yeah I mean I just I I agree with you I I think we just need to wait make sure it goes in and then I mean I don't I don't suspect that it wouldn't be planted but I'm just I'm just saying I'd rather wait usually and have have the planting done it's simpler that way and that's that's a fine solution that way we can make sure it's done before you issue so Beach crft usually available in March and suggest should be open you should yeah you should be able to get it you might you might be able to still get some okay from right now so you because we're just coming into into Prime beach grass planting season next next well in the end of next month so so do you want to table on two what would be the number of plugs per square foot or it's in the order of conditions it's usually 12 12 Ines on Center or 18 inches on Cent here I think I would say you would go on go for 12 inches I would think but whatever whatever it's called for is what you what they have to PL but that's the normal noral even for a steep slope yeah normal yeah where is this have a question about um about that area was that um little burm or whatever you want to call it there this was that there prior to resurfacing the road or was that something done afterwards no that was there it was there yeah I think we did um we did cut into that and and reform that slope a little the burm has always been there but I think we did cut into it a little which is where the vegetation was Disturbed yeah because it doesn't doesn't really look like a natural occurring type of a thing maybe because it's along the road I think it was put in as part of the original home being built the larger burm itself yeah yeah that could well be yeah the toppo on the original plan would show U the slope there so this says um beachgrass cols 12 in on Center by April 15th of the year so we can do the first one in May 12 Ines right so okay so that I understand further so that that was supposed to be done but never was yeah it also may have been done it was done on the rest of it and but it didn't stick um so they just are required to maintain it and try again okay and there wasn't any kind of a inspection type of a process how do we don't usually do compliance checks in the middle of when a permit is open because there would be no time okay we tried when we can all right thank you I I don't know that it might not be a bad idea for them to add like a Juke mat over top of it and plant plant through but just to hold it we just keep I mean I'm not saying we have to that they have to do it I'm just saying yeah it might be a good idea because it looks like it's just going to wash away with that steep raid right there we're yeah I mean Beach is planted on steep Dunes all the time um the fact that this one's next to a road okay well if you're good with it I'm okay difficult but I mean they'll just keep they'll just have to keep replanting so it's not I'll tell them it's an option but I don't think we need to require them use the Juke with a small area such as this I would think that that would really be helpful we have a big slope that's a little different like I said I'm not I'm not the one paying for it so if that's what they want to do recommend it no I'm just I'm just recommending that's all that's all I'm saying full recommendation well at the present time it doesn't contribute to any kind of um drainage problem having that that's secondary to that right yeah yeah okay may first May 1 is good with me that's the The Unofficial end of beachgrass planning season so correct right so we're good with that we'll just have a motion to continue this uh until May May well sometime after May 1st I oh actually no I'm not going to say that on May 1 May I'm going to say May 1 only because and then if you come in early you come in early so okay I just have another question about this though um if I may yeah um so the engineer and I'm assuming that was you yes provided um you don't believe that that the um what is it the um the pavement created a storm water issue right exactly uh um the point being that uh the driveway is over where it says P driveway zero work was done in that area there was nothing done there's been no change for 15 or 20 years in that area there's a speed bump and to the west of that we had a small patch on the North side instead of just doing like a little triangular patch they instead just grounded down and overlaid that area um but um um that area there is uh you can see pitched a little bit to the West even it goes from 977 to 974 to 970 so that water the best I can tell is actually sheeting away from her driveway uh and so again that should have no impact and so that's what I base my opinion on it's it's simply a non-factor does she have a puddle on the driveway yes but it's probably the back of her roof and certainly her driveway and a little bit of the road in front that's always draining onto it you know and and to fix that many years ago she put a strip drain in but again the sand blows right up that walkway you can see even in the arrow photograph the strip drain is filled up with sand you probably have to shop back it out every year to keep that from puddling so it's more of a maintenance issue on her side of things than anything having to do with the association in my opinion has to do with the association um more it has to do with her maintaining her property than it does with the association having responsibility uh she had expressed a desire to have the association you know fix her fix the drainage in that area and I'm just saying that and she blamed this project for it this project did not affect that drainage it's just simply years of you know again the P she put the septic under the under the pavers theyve settled a little she's got a little bird bath about where it says 10- foot easement there um there's no question that that could have been done better and and raised up a little bit but you know she'll just have to redo it uh probably if she maintains the strip drain that would help and even just um you know just maybe edging it freshening up the edging it's all sand so the water goes in pretty quickly but there is a short-term puddle there but it's simply not the not nothing to do with this project we simply didn't do any work over there the work that we did do is west of the speed bump which is the high point and it sheets the other direction so it's just um it's just not a factor um in in her driveway drainage situation um little to no effect excuse me so the drain is totally on her property it is it's right on the lot line but an inch or two onto her side and again if you I I referenced the the D documents all landc Court uh properties uh and I put right on the plan the uh the reference where uh the rights there's a 15t water easement a 10-ft utility easement and the right to drain the roadway in the common are under the shoulders of every lot in the subdivision and so um the association does have the right to drain water on our property and it would and if she puts in you know a semi impervious driveway and blocks that water she can't then complain about it you know they have the right to put the water there she she should you know create a situation that allows the water to infiltrate and you know she can't say oh you know you're putting water on my property illegally it's legal so essentially the drain or land going there is an easement yes the water the association the it burdens the private property owners um with uh having to take care of the water from the roadway at least in front of their property you know I I didn't understand the yes the easement is whose responsibility so uh the easement uh it's a it's a a subservient and subservient estate so the dominant state is the association they have the right to put water onto her property and infiltrate it so she's she's subservient to to that right and if she seals her driveway and doesn't allow the water to infiltrate she can't complain she's she's responsible for the water but that's their easement and their drain IED yes yes they well what it says is they have a right to put subsurface infiltration naturally into the shoulders of the roadway for both the road and the common are who's responsible for actual maintenance on that drain um it would be um it would be nature you know it's it's natural in other words Sandy shoulder should infiltrate if you seal it off for the paved driveway then I think probably then the the the subservient estate would be responsible for making sure that they restore it to a natural condition understanding who what kind of drain it is oh it's a just country style drainage just shoulder drainage water goes to the shoulder goes into the sand so that's all that's ever designed there were there a formal leeching pit like we did further down and it's in the right away then I would say absolutely the the homeowners association should clean that out and and you know restore it uh but here where it's just the ability to drain onto the shoulders it's just something that shouldn't be restricted by the homeowners they have to passively allow the water and if they do something to block that water I think that um they would be uh on the wrong side side of it um it's just natural shoulder drainage is what it's described as they're they're required to allow it to enter their property and drain into the ground okay all right thank youting into that all right yeah I think we'll because we're we're starting to go astray of what we're supposed to be talking about here um so unless there's any further discussion related to the Wetland side of it um yes so just the clarification on your last comment that so there may be a problem with drainage here and very often we talk in these meetings about drainage from um various properties not causing difficulties so that does not apply in this particular case he's certifying the the engineer is certifying that it's not an issue and it doesn't C I mean it appears to me that's I would agree with him there's not a there's not enough of a change in elevation that's going to create that's that's showing that the the association but regardless that that's when you start talking about the ease and things like that that's I'm not talking about easements I'm talking about water in the road and was it was there more um after this work was done or is it the same as when it was done I think that's what they were saying is it it's the same as it was for 20 plus years in my opinion there's because there's been zero work done on that side of the speed bump you you if you do nothing you by definition don't make it any worse right I think we can agree to that if if if if I bring in a project and I do nothing with respect to drainage then you can't say oh you made it worse it it's simply uh a null a null question on this side of the speed bump there was a very very thin sheer uh overlay but as you can see it's pitched towards us not away towards the driveway so you know to the to the extent that there might be a few more molecules that go on that that could be but it's extremely limited and in my opinion it's no worse than it was before and it's sheet this way and we we spent a good amount of money down the end of the road because the whole thing pitches down at the low point Point putting in a nice drainage system which as I explained isn't 100-year storm or anything like that but it makes the situation better than it was and it it enhances the shoulder drainage and it has been doing a fairly good job down on the on the uh the West end this is the high point it's very little water did the driveway is the driveway and has the driveway always been a little bit lower than the road and is there a slight puddle yes is that the association's problem in my opinion no um we have the right to put water onto her lot and you know to the extent that she's got a cleaner drain that should be on her okay uh let's see we know so we're looking to have a motion to continue this uh certificate of compliance request to May 1 2025 is there is there a second read any of this writing at all uh all those those in favor I opposed carries unanimously Mr Nolan told me on the way out that you handle his matter already yes that was approv wonderful I appreciate that it's a nice nice natural site uh was there anything else that you need me for tonight no that's good we're all set wonderful thank you so much appreciate it I'm sorry this is a certificate of compliance hearing we don't first of all the hearing is closed and we don't take public comment at certificate of compliance uh hearings correct information again I am I we have closed the hearing on this for this for this particular uh certificate and uh if you feel that there's some issue that that was going to again it has nothing to do with the Conservation Commission at this point okay I mean if you feel like you've been AG grieved then you need to to seek legal counsel and and certainly our door is open my email is dcap down cape.com ping an email over and I'll address it as to the best of my ility um be no problem to deal with it and we we'll be back here in a couple of months anyway so we can address it again at that time uh but be had to happy to look at it prior thank you okay thank you Dan right next order of business is a continued storm water permit application for sw2024 d002 imod zaran 228e 28 proposed Redevelopment Redevelopment into a mixed juice building and the peer review process has not been completed yet so we are going to have to go to the 16th is that what we're aiming for I think it's close and I'm working the Town Council to change this regulation okay I'm waiting for a response all right we can hear these only once peer review has been complete and not continue to continue them that would make it a lot easier they're working on it uh let's see do I have a motion to continue this to January 16th 2025 move yeah I'll second it those in favor I opposed carries unanimously uh other business we have approval of meeting minutes for November 21st and December 6th them they good with have you were you had both those meetings I oh actually I was not at the December 6th one but I did review the minutes you can do the 21st you want to do that okay I think Jack was not here the 21st which one on the 21st can review it after all right so the do I have a motion from uh for the November 21st is there a second second thank you all those in favor say I opposed carries unanimously and then did somebody review that was here for December 6th did somebody review that one yeah okay Jack you can we can't do that one because you and Bradford were both not here we will be we will be tbling the the minutes for December 6 20124 Friday yeah we had to do Friday so our people I was in oh yeah well that's right I wasn't here all right so much for that one all right other yes I was here that's only three we need four yeah no I'm not arguing I'm just saying I was here I all right uh any other business not reasonably anticipated no nothing buney all right uh if not then would somebody like to make a motion to adjourn second all those in favor I opposed carries unanimously We Stand adjourned at 536 e e e