he's turning us on when it appears on the monitor we're live I I'll alert you so I have a better view we are live okay uh first off I want to thank you for inviting me to come and share with you some of my thoughts about the act and about the law and about the roles that you play because it's an essential role for the maintainance of the Old Kings Highway historic district that is uh you folks are where it begins as far as the Regionals concerned because it starts with you with the initial interaction with uh people that come before you for permission to construct or to demolish property within the designated historic district and so your role as the initial uh decision makers in the process is really very critical uh and in fact the way the statute uh has evolved or was set up the local committee has a edge on the Regional Commission in the sense that uh the when you go up on appeal the question that is raised is appropriateness demolition whatever decision you make and under the Act and the way way it's been interpreted that local knows best that is we've got six towns in the uh District however the local committee is sort of separate for each each of the six towns and as a result um deference is given to that decision-making power and authority and the reason is that you folks live in the town understand the town you interact with the public and you're the ones who should make the judgment on appropriateness or demolition uh and that when you go up on appeal to the Regional Commission the issue is whether or not the committee made a mistake we're not supposed to on the regional level substitute our Judgment of appropriateness for the Judgment of the local committee now obviously um we have some Authority just like the courts have some authority to overrule if a mistake is made but that threshold question is whether a mistake has been made by the local committee and if there's no mistake your decision would stand if there is a mistake then we get to determine that is the regional gets to determine whether to send it back to you because we would anull the decision and then we would have jurisdictional authority to make a decision on appropriateness or inappropriateness or demolition or whatever is being sought by the applicant uh but we don't get to get there as long as there is no error or mistake on the part of you folks on the local level um and to me that's always made a lot of good sense because perhaps somebody in a different town doesn't have the flavor of the local town in which the applicant in which the project is located uh so that is something that uh preserves the local influence the local um ability to manage the act on a local level now thinking back over what gets us in trouble which uh does unfortunately happen occasionally and I've handed out a outline a three-page outline which I use as a basis when I do these Workshop type uh events for educating and not deliberating but educating uh and trying to relate what I've experienced in my years in working with the appeals and working with the district and if you see in this outline um we do talk about having a certificate of exemption certificate of demolition certificate of appropriateness and appeal petition those are the basics that all six towns utilize and the forms and the format it's the procedures that sort of get into where errors and mistakes happen and you can see that number a at the top of the list are the general laws of the Commonwealth that is there are three areas that become sources of conflict sources of mistakes errors and it's interesting because to a large extent these three areas the conflict of interest law the open meeting law and the public records law are Universal in each of the towns and they apply to all boards and all people serving in a public board position or public commission ranging from the selectman to the planning board to the Old kings's Highway committee and you as members of a committee have to adhere to the rules that are promulgated by the state governing conduct governing what you do when you do it how you do it and these are where we start to get into difficulty because while the state has done a a great job of mandating these and also assigning the enforcement of them to three different state entities to which the ethics commission for the conflict of interest the Attorney General's office for for the open meeting law and also for making sure that uh it is inforced and carried out and then the public records law falls under your state Secretary of State now they have strengthened these they did it uh about five or six years ago with reforms to force transparency in government to give the public the ability to enforce towns municipalities board members Etc to follow the rules and be transparent and sort of move away from what used to be called the old backro decisionmaking that often times occurred in small towns and sort of created the illusion that maybe they couldn't trust their officials and so they adopted a very strong set of regulations and these regulations are introduced to you when you come on board and you're also mandated to keep up with these three laws by taking the online courses that they give and learning what the open meeting law is What conflict of interest is and also what the public records require and getting unfortunately what I've observed is over time people become lack in complying with the three three statutes or the three laws that are universally applied and one of the things that uh causes I think this is you as individuals need to read these guides that are publ by the state that are online available and keep them up to dat that is every 2 years you're supposed to renew your certification or your uh compliance and your knowledge because it's easy to sort of relax and say oh I know the open meeting law I know conflict of interest Etc but you find little quirks and sometimes changes that are adopted by the state and it becomes a a certain burdensomeness particularly when you're doing uh your job on the Old Kings Highway because you have so much to do the Old Kings Highway takes so much of your time just checking out the applications that are coming through and trying to manage making proper decisions and trying to adhere to the requirements of determining appropriateness and so it's easy to sort of neglect the basics of these three requirements now um at this point I'm I'm not going to spend more time on that because we don't have that much time however my intent is to have a question and answer period for you to bring any questions you want to throw at me it's fine uh but at this point I want to try to get through the old King's Highway specific things and trust that you all one way or another have been exposed to conflict of interest been exposed to the open meeting law been exposed to the public records law because they are always with you that is there are things that uh would not just when you're in session but when you're out of here when you are talking to somebody and they ask you questions or you're using your email or you're doing something that uh you feel is perfectly normal and okay and then when something goes wrong and somebody says wait a minute you know that all of your emails that have anything to do with old King's Highway or your role in Old King's Highway is a public record and the public is entitled to see it and to have a copy of it and so you suddenly say wait a minute I I just called John John Stewart and talk to him or send him an email and lo and behold now I'm in trouble because I didn't save that email and I didn't do it I didn't do it intentionally to do anything wrong but then lo and behold when you read the public records law and what it requires of you you suddenly say whoops I I guess I shouldn't have done that and that also with the open meeting law gets you into the process of Serial conversations with different members which is strictly prohibited specifically prohibited in the open meeting law requirements that a quarum can't deliberate cannot and should not be communicating and a quorum for a meeting can be serial that is Bob could call John and talk to him he could call Liz he could call Cindy he could call Paul and suddenly there's a decision being made outside of the public scrutiny and the transparency requirements that have been imposed on you as public officials so you need to be careful you need to keep up with the guide books that are there online and recognize that they do govern your conduct both in a meeting and out of a meeting so you live with them 24 hours a day the good news is that the uh state has provided very good guide books or whatever they I mean they're kind of lengthy they range from 80 80 pages to 50 P Pages down to 27 pages I think but it is important to be familiar with these so you don't get into trouble and we don't have problems where appeals come up mistakes are made and also uh there is some personal uh jeopardy with like the conflict of interest law where holy smokes is this a conflict or not and even when you take the quiz that they give you online you won't get 100% I don't think anybody could take that quiz and get 100% of the questions answered correctly never have and it's good for you to be sensitive to it now as a with my years of experience on conflict of interest I would say first off if there's any money involved you're in trouble if there is any way to connect what's happening or going on either you are doing work and you're being paid or something of that nature you're getting yourself into deep water and while for the most part it is your decision first on whether there's a conflict of interest that is because people have to sense the fact that they're in conflict of interest it's not something where the chairman can say oh you're under conflict of interest it is a personal thing to the individual board member to ascertain if they're in violation and will be receiving a uh a note from the state ethics commission which you really do not want to do and you do not want to put yourself in Jeopardy of doing that so the way to defend yourself or try to inoculate yourself from a conflict of interest is to study the guide that they have that they publish take the quizzes constantly you're supposed to take them every two years and follow the rules of avoiding conflict of interest and one of the things that uh I've always done in my years as a municipal attorney and also as the commission's attorney is when in doubt don't conflict of interest is a deadly thing that you do not want to mess with and you and and so if you have to say oh I'm not going to sit on this hearing that's the right decision you make if you feel you've got a conflict of interest it is it is something where if if you ignore it and you sit because you want to be heard or you want some of the thing you're putting yourself into Harm's Way so avoidance even if it means the uh uh committee uh doesn't have a five member it has a four member or it has a three member deciding on a project uh so be it that's I mean we've got two alternates and Paul's ready to step in I'm sure and uh for somebody that has a conflict of interest but uh as I say conflict of interests are something you need to be very wary of uh and try to and your best defense is to understand the law understand the rules and the recommendations on that uh requirement anyway can I just um say something at this point because it's it's relevant so in our pack our extra materials that uh Lisa has given us for this evening there is a request from a neighbor that specifically Liz Argo should recuse herself since her job creates a conflict of interest so interestingly enough we have a claim and I'm hoping we will deal with that as part of the Public's view of this letter but I don't have a job any more so it's pretty much a a Mis mistaken identity no I appreciate you bringing that up because it brings it home so to speak of of the issue and the problem with conflict of interest is in part the breadth with which it extends because just having an appearance of a conflict can be viewed as a violation that is public officials are not supposed to appear here that they are exercising their votes or making decisions with a conflict that the public sees even though the public official may as you said I no longer have a job I no longer have any conflict uh it's still the appearance sometimes can influence the process and it is prohibited to have a have a uh appearance of conflict so uh just as I say I know those you're very familiar with the rules and I respect and appreciate that because it is uh very important to do your job and your job is as a Municipal Employee incidentally a Municipal Employee doesn't mean you're getting paid for your work it means that you fit into that category of definition of a Municipal Employee uh so you have to really drill into uh the situations one thing that um maybe Lisa would check on whether the town of yth has designated the members of the Old Kings Highway as special Municipal Employees believe we have been okay because that has a lower threshold of of enforcement against you and the board of Selectmen have the authority under uh 268a to designate board members and people who are not really getting paid substantial amounts of money to work for the town uh are designated uh as special Municipal Employees but you have to have had that vote and it's good to check once in a while because sometimes those votes get lost yeah and that protects us from liability yeah it's it's so it's uh being cautious and uh just basically trying to uh follow the rules but you got to know the rules to follow them um so anyway uh I'm going to leave this topic now and get more into the bulletin and into your role as uh committee members uh and giving your time and attention to the job and of course I start out by saying review the bulletin the march22 bulletin not the one previously keep up to date and basically familiarize yourself with what it says uh I I've heard from time to time some of the Commissioners who are the chairs for the six towns reference and say this is the Bible of how we do this and in in truth it is because our Act is what's called a special Act of the legislature that is every year when the legislature meets bills are filed and bills work their way through the Sausage Factory hope they don't take advantage of that but anyway uh and come out with new laws and those laws are listed as chapters of special act or chapters of laws that are created in a particular year so each year you get a set of laws that the legislature will create and our laws began back in 73 with the special act that's called 470 of the acts of 1973 and that was the initial version of the old King's Highway Act uh and a little bit of History um when we enacted this um we thought we had a pretty good bill but within short time of trying to implement it we had nine towns then in it east andorn and howich were also members of the Old Kings Highway District uh people got very upset with the way it was being administered um a lot of people felt that their home was their castle and they didn't need need the Old Kings Highway to tell them what color to paint their house or whatever and at that time we were all feeling our way along incidentally I I was there at the time when this act was created I was the Barnstable representative to the planning entity that created it and I was young and wet behind the ears and so forth but really attracted to the law and the concept of what it could do to improve the the visual quality and preserve the north side of Cape Cod that is when when this was enacted um it was shortly after the seashore Park was created for the Outer Cape and for the upper cape and people were very concerned about the over commercialization of Cape Cod at that time and so the feeling was gee on Sunday afternoon we get in our car and we don't go down Route 28 we go down Route 6A because they are extremely different in appearance and that was a driving force behind the movement to create this act in the first place that it was done to protect everything north of the midc cape Highway and preserve the original Old Colony Road that came from Plymouth all the way down and along uh the cape uh and the feeling was that we needed to have protection so that 6A did not become as um let's use the word inappropriate in appearance and we didn't lose all of those Captain's houses and all those features attractive places that are over there that draw people here and bring the tourists here who spend money and like to kind of drive along 6A and enjoy that appearance and also the scenic roads in that area and so the concept was we needed special protection because at the time we did this uh aesthetic zoning was frowned upon and not you couldn't put zoning by a law is based on Aesthetics appearance however the historic district concept allowed and made appearance a very important aspect to appropriateness that is preserving the appearance having Harmony in the streetcape having properties that were being built or added have an appearance that blends in and doesn't have a shock effect if you get into the issue or when you get into the issue of appropriateness and deal with the question of determining appropri you'll you'll look at the standards and I'm getting a little ahead of myself with that uh but the concept is to have compatibility not in congruity with appropriateness that is the concept that if you drive down uh 28 here and you have all all these commercial developments that are competing for the eye of the tourist driving down the streetcape so what happens is one person puts up the Leaning Tower of Pizza another person puts up another extreme example of appearance and they sort of shock you because in commercialism you're fighting for your tourist or your customer to see you to know you're there and that you've got something that they want whether it be food whether it be uh trinkets whatever it may be and so for advertising and promoting and getting people who are just driving down the road for a two week vacation to come to your establishment you want it to be so visual that it catches the eye of the person driving down the street that's contrast to what happens with 6A where the drive is more controlled that is the appearance of the drive and that you see these houses without getting a shock effect in other words you can imagine because you do sit on these applications the ones that come in that you're saying gosh that isn't going to blend in very well that's not going to be compatible with the neighboring properties and you get this kind of shock effect of the in congruity that takes your eye and captures your eye and you see this and you're saying oh wow what is that um and it is that kind of of judgment that really is very important when you're thinking about appropriateness when you're trying to make a decision is this house is this sign is this structure going to fit is it going to harmonize and that's why when we advise people to do a 360 on any application a 360 meaning you go out to the site of where this building or structure is going to be and you do a 360 O A 360s talking with my hands and get in trouble uh a 360 is the concept of the setting for a proposed building or structure and you see what is in the area by stand standing and looking at what one sees around where the site is and that allows you to see the the the neighborhood you see what type of houses are there what kind of houses what in harmony is being replicated what is being brought in that is very different and will potentially create a shock effect to the eye as you drive down the streetcape and and see the buildings and see what is there and that is a fundamental part of determining its appropriateness or inappropriateness um and I'm sure that you all who have been doing these judgments appreciate the importance of a site visit uh as I strongly recommend what you do is you use Google to find the location of where this property is and then you go out and you do the 360 you look around you can even drive around the neighborhood and a fundamental uh other thing to keep in mind is that you do want a level of variety that is Cookie Cutter is not appropriate um I'm sure you're all familiar with the ranch develop Vel Ms that came in in the 60s and70s and how they sort of cookie cuted a particular plant and everybody had the same house um we want variety to a certain level but not a shock variety not one that's so um overwhelmingly kind of out of out of character and also when you look at section 10 of the ACT which is really your key for rendering your judgments that is uh when you take the statute section 10 directs what the committee is to consider in determining to either approve a removal and demolition or to do a judgment of appropriateness for a new building or a dwelling and there are two very different uh sections that is uh if you when you look at this uh handout that I've given to you uh it's always been my opinion that Demolition and removal has only two factors to consider and that is first off the architectural and historic significance of the structure that's being proposed for demolition or removal and two the public interest what is the public interest in preserving this structure or building versus gee maybe we it doesn't have historic value and or architectural value and that the public really doesn't have an interest here those are the two factors often times people blend in the appropriateness theory and some of the other things but when you look at the statute the statute is very clear when it talks about demolition or removal of just having those two factors now when you go to appropriateness you've got about six factors set forth in there that you're supposed to look at and utilize to determine appropriateness and those I've listed in in this but they're also straight out of the statute and so when you uh are called upon to make a judgment on appropriateness you have a wider field of considerations to weigh and making that judgment and what you get into is this is incidentally 3B on the second page and it's lists the um 3C 3C yes 3C it's says quote the historical value and significance of the building or structure that's one two the general design Arrangement texture materials and color of the features involved the relationship of such factors to similar factors of buildings and structures in the immediate surroundings there's your 360 and knowing the setting which is the next item and then the relative size of the buildings and structure if it is way out of sink with its size it's too massive then it could be very inappropriate in a ranch neighborhood or where having a three-story or whatever could be deemed to be inappropriate uh for the uh under the ACT um now I'll give you also something that gets into making General recommendations by me uh or by to you you want to be objective not subjective okay now this is one of the biggest problems we have in administering this act because it's so easy for an individual Committee Member to say I don't like it I don't like this I don't like that and that is a subjective personal judg judement you're not on the committee to exercise your personal judgment you will not see your likes and dislikes as a factor to consider in determining appropriateness or demolition or removal that the ACT works because the Committees and the commission are to use objectivity in making their judgments and if you look at these factors they give you the tools to do that that is you think about when you have an application the historical value and significance of the building or structure you think about the general design Arrangements textures materials and colors involved you do check the relationship of such factors to similar factors of buildings and structures in the immediate surroundings you consider the setting you consider the relative size those are objective tangible judgments and factors that you can apply to each one of your applications and when you sit in front of a homeowner or an applicant or somebody that wants to do something and you use those factors to explain your judgment that is when you deliberate or whatever you say well gee this doesn't fit with this house next door I went went out there and you know you get into those objective things where the homeowner can go out and say ah yeah that takes their attention off of you personally but when you personally say I dislike it they don't relate it to the ACT they think it's personal and they take it personally and that can create resentment hostility and a bad decision because so easy to say well you know do this do that I don't like I'll like this but I won't like that it is deadly from both a public relations approach to the applicant and to you with your decision because you're not on this committee to use your personal feelings about well about preservation or about whatever you feel you're most interested in that is not objective it's personal and the statute does not put that down as something to consider to the contrary it gives you objective standards and if you can start to use those when you discuss well we're going to is this appropriate or inappropriate and you talk in terms of these objective standards or factors or features then it's very hard to criticize your decision because they are facts and they're not your personal facts you go out and You observe and you say gee this doesn't fit with this area it's in congruous and in fact it is the materials or like somebody wants to put up a steel house you look at it you say gee that material is very different from the cedar shingle uh Captain's House or whatever next to it and so you can utilize these factors in order to make your decision one accepted by even a reluctant applicant by saying well gee they said well let's talk to the architect and let's see if we can make it fit better or make it more harmonious with what's there uh and it's not that one of you says well gee I don't like this application I don't like this design and then you offend the architect who really feels he created a perfect house and you get yourselves into trouble uh and I'm just if I could wish anything it would be to wash those words like and dislike from your vocabulary when you're sitting on these things because it's being recorded and it doesn't it it builds hostility personally because you're saying I don't like it and that takes on the burden for the decision to approve or not approve and you don't have to do that you can use these standards the courts have accepted them as objective that they are constitutional and as long as you focus on those and utilize those when you're talking and when you're discussing an application before you or asking questions uh it gives you a uh objectivity and a Judicial role as opposed to a personal role so that's my pitch on that one uh but as I say unfortunately I see it when I look at the videos and I see what what happens because it's so easy I mean I do it anybody can say I like it or I don't like it and uh that gets you though into trouble and uh you want to stay away from that um now I don't know how much time I've burned through here oh I okay I'm going to stop at this point um urge you to read this urge you to read all those other things uh that the state provides you with and to familiarize yourself with the bulletin and if you have questions I am available I will take calls uh my official role is to deal with the chairman of your committee uh he serves on the commission I am retained by the Regional Commission that is my role however I find it good to take phone calls when people call and have a question and allow me to give my opinion on it um it is it can head off a problem before it gets too big and so forth but as I say um Let me throw it open quite questions I have a question the um number six which is the energy advantage of a proposed solar wind device yes under the certificate of appropriateness um considerations and um we we struggle with that of course as do all of the the Committees a lot and um can you explain what is meant by that what are how is that supposed to affect our de decisions well first off you're thinking of it when you're doing with solar panels the whole committee is they're very much aware no it's it's what it does it causes you to think about that factor or that aspect to it and how important it is and it depends as we found both with litigation and with experience that um the question of solar energy with a lot of people is it dominant decision maker and that their belief in solar panels should be everywhere that it doesn't matter whether it's the hawky house or what it is because solar is so important that uh the solar energy issue is a very permanent issue politically and there are splits of opinion in a lot of people and so when you're administ ing this you're going to have to make a judgment on a caseby Case basis not a uniform we adopted you the uh exemption to loosen up and permit more easier approval for solar panelist that was a decision as the Commissioners reached a point where they felt okay this is what we can do and we will permit these to not go through a public hearing and that basically created the opportunity for a lot more solar in the historic district however the the counter to that is there are standards to put solar up where it's not going to be so visible because they do have a appearance that is recognized as being uh very different yeah and we've had court cases and we've had litigation in which it's been well versed I mean the issue of solar energy or efficiency is one that the community grapples with and you know from your long experience that um one of one of maybe this will help answer the question our district is a living District okay what that means means to me is that it evolves in choices and decisions about appropriateness that is you're not many historic districts like Williamsburg and Sturbridge and some of these others are stuck in a particular time period in the houses are supposed to be that way our historic district which is the largest in the country as far as we know uh basically is a rural historic district has a lot of undeveloped land it has a lot of open space it C has a very large area and it's growing all the time with new people coming new ideas the Committees turn over in membership that as solar or any of these things like wood material Etc when we first started out some members on a committee one of the he's not Yarmouth said all houses should have cedar shingles on their roof say that was the big big change that was no that was something that uh the members felt preservation we're going to make everybody have cedar shingles now and that didn't work because it wasn't reasonable and also the district as it evolves has changes in Personnel changes in opinions of what is appropriate and what isn't appropriate and also education that as you look at the solar movement and so forth it has broadened in many respects because there's a lot of information out there saying everybody should have solar and everybody should be aware of it and everybody should be not saying no but the reality is that we're not going to just say okay everybody can have solar everybody can have contemp orary everybody can do this everybody can do that there has to be a balance and that balance really comes from the Committees from the grounds up okay it's something that is a part and that's why local Knows Best in the sense that I spoke of earlier with the importance and significance of having local people who live in the community who walk down the street talk to their neighbor get elected or Not Elected uh depending on the temperament of the local community and that's one of the reasons also why uh the Regional Commission doesn't dictate if they can avoid it to the local committee and say well we feel you know our Our member from Orleans thinks that yth should have uh Sandwich Board signs freely up and down 6A or somebody from out of town is making a judgment on appropriateness and so but as I say you need to approach this District as being a living District because 40 to 50,000 people live in the district and own their home and their castle and many of them were built in the 70s and the 80s in the '90s yeah so you have a variety of both architecture and appearance and Community uh feeling about what the district should be doing I mean all six of the towns I go crazy because you go to one town and it's this way and you go to another town it's that way but I've learned to tolerate that and to encourage the Regional Commission to use decisions that don't charge in and say well we're going to make it all the way from the canal to uh Orleans or east ham and do it our way so what does uh Define advantage hm Define advantage for us Define advantage in the energy Advantage the advantage to the homeowner advantage to the planet Advantage right to the guy's wallet we we had a a guy come in who covered his entire front and rear roof y with solar panels right so he's selling that and he's making money he's turned his roof into a business M Am I Wrong well I I'd have to say that that's inaccurate though yes no I I okay first off when you read this section 10 don't get hung up on one word okay Advantage okay what does advantage mean what does appropriate mean you could to some people it means this to another it means different and that's also part of the interpretation and the application of the act that goes on constantly with your approval process that is you could have a committee 10 years ago that would have said one thing today you've got a committee that's going to say something else on appropriateness that allows for reasonable growth of ideas and use of material use of design all these types of things that are you guys are be are the jury and uh it's not even though even though we've had a few solar panel cases Advantage is a word to interpret and can be interpreted when it's applied to a particular applicant or a particular proposal to mean this or that I mean take any of these words and that's part of giving you the power to make judgments so that you will make but make a objective judgments of appropriateness and not have an ironclad rule that every time a application comes in that is going to do a b or c you're going to vote against it that shows your narrowness in making judgments and you get labeled very quickly you're always going to say no to whatever feature comes in and and then you get locked into that and people resent that because they want if if you think about this process let's say you're going to build a house or a structure and you have to go before five people in the town who are going to make a judgment on what you can do and what you can't do that sort of says oh my God what am I going to do here how am I going to get approval how am I going to build my Dreamhouse how am I going to do the things that I feel I should be able to do and that's part of of the process of judgment making and that's why it's a committee of five in other words when when this was set up we didn't have alternates and thank God we got alternates to fill in so that people would have a five member judgment like a jury okay not one person playing God and standing up there and saying okay you can do this but you can't do that and the difference in just pointing out a difference between the building department or the planning board and you folks is you have more discretion to decide what's appropriate you have more features what happens with the building inspector is he gets out his ruler and he says okay is this you know 30 ft does this meet this stand I've got the building permit everything is spelled out and the decision is right here in the book for you folks you get to go out out and look at the setting the neighborhood you get to look at what's being proposed and evaluate it and if you evaluate it by these criteria or these factors features you will be objective and hopefully you'll gain Community respect because it's not your personal feelings it's your what Your you're pointing out of observing that is out there somebody else can go and say oh yeah gee this house next door is a colonial or this one is a contemporary or whatever it may be and so your decisions and your decisions will progress and change as building materials change as needs and requirements will change so Jim um so I have felt that a large part of our role is to inform an educate the public and to that end um outside an example someone will come before us and assert that their windows are rotted and they need new windows on the front of their house on 6a and I have offered to come pay a visit to assess the condition of the windows and very frequently the windows are reparable my estimation at lesser cost than replacing them with newer windows that won't last as long so in order to achieve that kind of visit without violating the open meeting law obviously if I went by myself I think I'd be fine um if I went with someone else I'm not in violation because it's not a quorum but how do you feel about these kinds of informative and educational site visits your your phraseology is nice uh however I do recognize I do have problems with that um the committee members and particularly the chair are supposed to keep their objectivity on a project coming in and if you go out and talk with the applicant and examine things with him or her and discuss it you start to taint your role in having the hearing in other words you're you're sort of potentially at risk of moving to a decision on appropriateness outside of a public meeting in the ideal your committee would only consider what they hear in the open public hearing not what they hear on the street not what they get from the applicant calling them up and saying Hey I want to come in and do this or do that can I have will you support me on that Holy Smokes you're you're selling your opinion before you even hear the case from the abuts and the applicant and that really creates uh a high risk of of a of a mistake being made when the hearing comes up because all the applicant has to say well gee Bob came out and we talked about these windows and whoa this is really bad and then everybody watching the TV is going to say what's Bob doing out there talking behind the a you know so let me pose it in a different way no it sound I'm I'm I'm going to press you on this a little bit further so an application comes before us M so it's a public meeting and the applicant wants to replace their uh original windows on their the front of their house on 6a or on another on another Scenic byway in town and um they want to do it because a window company has come to them and said your windows are rotted they need to be replaced um and we asked the question or one of us asked the question are you aware of the fact that frequently these antique windows can be restored M and we have resource materials that we can give you regarding that objective resource materials not ones that we've created or conjured up um so are we okay so far in having this public discussion about during the application process with transparency yes you can do that but you you you still one when you read the list of things that I've cited the 10 dos and don'ts or whatever um one of the things is you do not want to design an application coming before you committees easily slip into that role of saying well you know if you move the chimney or if you do this or you do that maybe it would be appropriate you get yourself on a slippery slope because the application is changing in your hearing and your judgment is supposed to be on what is filed with you tangibly the elevations and what they want to do it's not supposed to come and ask you to design their home they are supposed to if you take the roles Your Role is not to tell an applicant how to get an approval because when you go there you wind up designing their house instead of they're doing it and you get applications that are being decided in your hearing room instead of with the architect and the applicant doing it as they should to give you an appropriate application and the problem when you start designing it here is that the abuts and public don't know all the changes and suddenly they think because they came in and looked at the plans or saw Lea before the hearing and said okay this is what they want to do I'm I'm not going to worry about it it looks good to me and they walk out and then suddenly it comes into your committee and you flip it all around and change it and they're Furious furious at you because they were told it was going to be this and now it's that so one of the things that you may have to do and particularly when they're changing the elevations okay you should say we're going to have to continue this so that people can see the elevations you can examine them with time and you're not under the gun to make a decision while everybody's standing there and you make a hasty decision and a mistake gets made that brings me to uh the thought of a friendly addendum which is an addendum that the board and the uh applicant agree onuh a friendly addendum okay so it's an addendum because we a lot of times it'll be it'll be something simple you can use a very large application for okay yeah no the the Committees do put conditions on approvals and that's the way you do them to the extent that you say well okay if if but we're changing the application yes you you are instead of denying it right okay and within reason that can be done the problem is as it gets to be a bigger change or a bigger variation you potentially offend and create an eyesore potentially that is going to get a lot of attention that you really don't want to have responsibility for and you know it the the old adage that I used earlier about conflict of interest when in doubt don't when in doubt don't let the applicant get you into redesigning the house in the hearing it just it takes a lot of time effort attention and you don't have a chance to really look at the proposed changes you you want those changes on a plan so you continue the application and that is they've got to agree to continence and for the 45 day rule but you continue it or else you vote it down and be done with it the you know and make them come back and just say I'm sorry that be like tabling it table T tabling I know Yarmouth does it I don't like tabling because you still have the issue you should continue it to a date certain and not table because what's a table mean how does that process work then give me an example so if you say okay there's too many changes we're going to have a continuance to continue vote to continue you vote to continue and the applicant signs the 45-day extension so you can do it if they don't want to extend it for you to consider you know their their new set of of elevations then you turn it down be done with it so there's there's really a lot of incentive for them to say okay we'll put it off you know till the next meeting or whatever so we want to continue it and you have an agreement to continue but you don't want to get yourself too far out on a limb on making changes to what the neighbors saw or relied upon to to determine appropriateness I mean it's it's a real problem and it's throughout the district okay may I also say um that by gently suggesting how an application might be improved without a vote what you've done is imply that the improved application will be successful right but without a vote you don't know how that's going to go when it comes back therefore to your point to your point the committee's exposed itself without as it were a good Moe between it and the public okay but the the thing is that in openness and fairness with the assistance of the chair and the assistance of of the membership they should be able to say why they're continuing or why they're asking to to have it continued and what is going to potentially happen because the issue has come up during the hearing public hearing with transparency so if the committee members or some of them are not pleased with the what's going on they say well it's uh should be continued and and if you want to bring us new elevations showing us what you're doing because otherwise you s with a pen and start writing on the plans and it really gets bushy and very difficult for the building department to know what the heck you approved right but but I think what what Paul is also saying is and and when when the discussion is happening and for instance the doors are off center that's that we see that the doors are off center might we might you want to reconsider that and and come back we can continue this hearing so that you can reconsider the the look and it's appropri they can even you know they can force a vote and take their chances coming up to the Regional Commission yeah so who propos have choices you have choices and it's using the choices to find the right path forward so that everybody feels fairly satisfied with what the end result is so who would propose the continu the applicant or the committee I think that the chair probably often times does that because he reads the The Temper of what's going on and he will suggests that maybe this should be continued and that we hear this later and if you're making changes get them into us sometime before the hearing don't just walk in into to the continued date with new plans you want them filed so everybody can see them so that they are available to be reviewed so you should put a requirement on the new new material being submitted to you so that the public can have a chance to see it so the two we the twoe requirement the twoe requirement for posting for the public yeah you got Advance the meeting you got to have have the stuff available um so the public sees it otherwise you're prejudicing the Public's perception although a Butter's wishes so so Jim um this was a good start I think all right you want be back again I I think I think if you're willing um we should do it again because I have there a lot of uned questions questions and I talk too much um no this was excellent I'm very grateful um certainly uh I think this is the way to do it an hour that's it because even we get tired and you you get too much and so but I I will be available to come back uh don't want to make it every meeting you have chicken maybe maybe um we could get together and um draft an agenda for the next time for you to look at and see if you approve it and are willing to address yourself give me advanced notice I'll go read the books okay all right thank you for coming Jim okay well thank you for having me seriously it it uh it makes my job a lot easier if you guys are following the rules and come out right then I don't get appeals I think that's a good thing I agree with that but anyway okay thank you thank you thanks Jim do you have a good evening and welcome to this meeting of the Old Kings Highway Committee of the town of Yarmouth which is being held in accordance with chapter of 470 of the acts of 1973 as amended at 7:17 p.m. on Monday April 8th 2024 at the Yarmouth Town Hall hearing room located at 1146 Route 28 South Yarmouth moreover pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 considering certain covid-19 measures this meeting is being run in hybrid mode which is to say live participation there will be probably some Zoom participation there may be some telephone par participation as well seven new applications for certificates of appropriateness and one tabled certificate of appropriateness will be heard this evening in the order listed on the agenda please be reminded that our committee's main purpose is to review items for appropriateness and and setting and it is the responsibility of the applicant to comply with the regulations of other Town boards and departments including building conservation engineering Health zoning and the sign inspector you should know that there is a 10 calendar day appeal period starting once a decision is filed with the town clerk any person agreed by our decision tonight can appeal to the Regional Commission of the Old Kings Highway historic district our our office administrator Lisa Sherman will be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding this process and as uh some of you may know considering process our process is to have the applicant Andor the applicants representative come to the table in front of me speak into the microphone identify him her or themselves and state their application without interruption from the committee or members of the public after which I will ask for comments uh and questions from the committee and after that uh the public and especially uh interested of Butters will be free to ask questions and make comments and for that purpose I would ask you to step up to the podium to my left speak into the microphone identify yourself tell us where you live and make your comments or ask your questions so the first item on the agenda tonight is 24-34 it's to install a sidey yard fence at 463 Route 6A Robert and marelen Babin are the owners and FNL Home Improvement is the agent and who do we have this evening hello hello hello my name is Robert and this is my wife wife Ellen and we're like I said we're applying for the application for the fence just on one side of our property uh stock eight fence it's what I think it measured 72 feet um we have a dog and uh basically we lost the other his brother last summer and he starts wandering around so we figure we better put a fence around so doesn't go across the the street or the neighborhood plus a little privacy is good too okay is that it yeah okay questions or comments from the committee I I would ask uh about um the ends of the fence are you tapering them down or are they just going to be they're going to be hidden it's going to be trees like if look if you're looking at the driveway you're probably not even going to see it because there's trees right right yeah there's a lot of trees so yeah a lot of trees and so you won't be seeing it in from the street it's just when you get in the driveway it's going to go right up to the street right about halfway down the driveway is that okay so there's no transition as you come to the end of the fence the trees and stop plus you don't be hard you don't see it from the it is buried in the trees so are you planning to put it right on the property line yeah I guess that's okay I mean trees do come down down but we usually ask that fences be put in with a taper at the end transition but as you point out you're buried in the F in the trees yeah you won't see it I defer any other questions or comments from the committee are there any questions or comments from the public or abutters Andor abutters hearing none I'll entertain a motion I'll make a motion to approve second motion's been it's been moved and approved um I'll ask for a vote all those in favor signified by saying I I I I I and I so you have to sign some if you'll come up and sign this document that um says if you're going to make any changes to the fence you'll let us know so we can either accept the changes or not polka dots pol do Stripes no you don't have to sign unless you really want to okay that's it thank you good night whoa that happen thank you to the next one have to ruse myself thank you thanks the next item on the agenda is 24- a035 it's to build a gazebo at 147 Thatcher Shore Road Tom and Francis uh big du Payton I hope I've pronounced that correctly are the owners and New England Outdoor structures is the agent and who do we have tonight hi everyone uh I'm Tom big deayton and you got the name just right oh good so yeah I think you we I have a picture I think you have it already our idea is to build a small structure that we tried to choose to be in character with the neighborhood and the house to essentially sit and in hopefully a bug protected way uh look out on the backyard uh we have one grandchild he's two I don't see any others in their foreseeable future hopefully there will be more and we think it'd be a really fun sort of thing to do when they they visit the summer is that it that's it okay questions or comments from the committee should I recuse myself well I'm in a butter so I'm going to recuse myself but should I leave the table or just not vote Yes if you wouldn't mind standing up at the podium I have one question so there were there's an X that's more magic marker and then the second X which I think it's just because there were kind of two spots but look it's not critical because they're right next to each other and either one I think would have been fine one's a little closer to the flood zone right we let me just look here does anybody else have that um green that's 2 X's right 2 instead of trying to find that picture I can show it to you it's the other it's this it's the pl that diagram yeah okay and it it's just where it's going to sit and it's we talked to conservation and we mapped that at least as best we could tell it was a pretty decent distance from the Wetland yeah um trying to find that one you it's it's not consequential I probably I was just wondering if there was anything story behind it but cuz either one as long as it's it's good with conservation the site is fine seem to be okay with it so yeah other questions or comments from the committee it's um but your foundation is crushed onone but uh the picture indicate a a cedar roof you said col a cedar structure but then you what what exactly is the roof going to be well it's the structure is made out of wood and I think it is Cedar but yeah it's red cedar of the roof down is material asphalt correct okay so all the rest all the rest of it is red cedar yeah it's going to have a solid foundation and then the structure goes on top of that yeah okay the total size of the structure is 8 by8 so is the roof seater or asphalt oh no the the roof is Seer okay where did you see as right here material material that's where I thought I saw it too so it's definitely you want cedar um well hold on a second we have oh okay maybe I'm speaking out of school so asphalt shingles is listed this part so it is the the structure itself is Cedar but they do list asphalt shingles for the roof would you prefer Cedar personally I think I would so we could um offer that as an amendment to the application that it be Cedar rather than asphalt yeah that's all right with me okay uh I have a question on the design you have options uh here you've circled the one with um the double roof and the kopa on top right uh what what influenced your decision may I ask um my wife's preferences to be honest okay um it's a matter of style I think and we were in you know we so the house is uh Paul Rivier reproduction so it's Colonial so we were looking for something that was in that ballpark I don't know they probably didn't have these in colonial but that was our our impression in terms of the style choice any questions or comments from the public or any abutters present who wish to comment on this letter that you need to read into the record was there a letter submitted there is a letter there is a letter okay I don't have a letter oh yes that's right Dear Mr Wilkins we are writing the armouth Old Kings Highway historic district committee to express our wholehearted support for Tom and Francis a big up Payton request for approval to build a gazebo we are their next door neighbors we have seen and reviewed their plans and we have and have no objections whatsoever unfortunately we'll be we will be traveling on April 8th and will not be able to attend your meeting to express our support we hope that the committee will agree with us that their plan gazebo is in keeping with the historic nature of the area thank you very much for your consideration Jeff keer kefir and Sue Costello so you've got support from Neighbors always nice any other comments or questions hearing none I'll entertain a motion move to approve 24- a035 I'll second that it's been moved and seconded uh all in favor signified by saying I I I I and I up and sign this document he says if you're going to change anything if your wife advises you to change something do we needly do we need to write up the um okay do you have a sheet for us thank you you okay with it fine oh that's all right I'll take care of the rest of it good luck with it thank you very much flat we wouldn't want to put any you okay great I didn't get any plan so I'm anxious to see this one yeah did you see the house little ranch two Edition oh wow yeah I was blind the next item on the agenda is 24- excuse me 24- A36 it's to uh it's for an addition to the house and install a split rail fence at 479 North Dennis Road um John clessie is the owner are you John yes I am okay if you would present your application please hi how you doing my name is Sean cloy I'm uh presenting an application to put in uh wow that's loud um to put an addition on my house for me and my two children so uh right now we're sharing about 900 square ft and that's not going to work with a three-year-old daughter and a six-year-old son and my daughter made me promise her that she gets a unicorn bedroom so best way to do it was to add a dining room with a two-car garage and move my bedroom to the upstairs that way the kids can have separate bedrooms um um the I've owned the property since ' 05 it's on well over an acre and I'm actually a general contractor with 20 years experience so I'll be doing the project myself I did the best I could to meet all the standard views and points that would normally be in any historic build as I've worked on multiple historic properties in the town and try and blend it in with the surround with the surroundings said it John yeah okay I was figuring more questions than having to speak so I'm about to find out any questions or comments from the committee yeah oh and the uh the split rail fence if you were to look at my plot plan me and my when they cut that part of the neighborhood up they kind of oddly cut it up so our grass just literally flows into each other there's no break so half the time I end up mowing half their la which I don't really mind but like now with my kids I I didn't live in the house for 8 years it was a rental so now with my kids running around the yard I figured like split rail would not take away still give the neighborly aspect and still like but have slightly a divide between and that's on the if you're going up my driveway the left property line that goes into the power line eement okay so this house is set quite far back from the road yeah I'm like 200 plus feet actually this is the only time I've ever had to have a meeting because generally it falls under exemptions right and as a matter of fact there's no grills in the window because I've already got an exemption from when I just did the 10 windows in the home this past year pretty standard construction 12 pitch on the front with a 4 foot Kick Back Then six pitch dormers on either side try to keep the garage doors even that's why I moved the access door to the side so everything would be nice and symmetrical on the front quite a dramatic change to the house it's kind of been I mean I bought the place in 2005 at the worst possible time to buy a house but the plus side to it was it was on 1.05 Acres so it's kind of always been the dream but now as a single dad with two kids sharing the bedroom it's kind of the dream has to become a reality with a little bit of quickness on borrow time little bit of Sweat Equity here yeah I mean might as well cash it on the career choice you know so John I didn't hear you say the existing house is what square footage uh the floor first floor is about 762 square feet and so the the new addition is going to be how much larger about 900 square ft for a floor the floor or the two stories living area living area cuz obviously you don't include the garage in the living area the habitable space is 900 ft² that's actually also like also it's important for me to eat my dinner with my kids and if you look at the existing there's not a real dinner table area so I didn't want to like just put this garage right on the side of the ranch so that's why I have that 14t dining room to to kind of break it up to give it a more aesthetic look so it didn't just look like there was like a garage like so it's like a connector exactly yeah I didn't want I didn't I just didn't want like this twostory garage slammed right up against the side it also enabled me I kicked the back in a foot so that I didn't have to tie into the existing roof so I can have a a rake the roof die into a rake and then so you have to go through the garage to get upstairs uh second yes yes well there's a inside of the garage if you look at the plan there's kind of like a Breezeway where you either you can go to the garage if you go it well you enter into the Breezeway if you go straight you go into my bedroom which will be upstairs and you take the left of the dining room the other reason too is the eventual plan is once I cover from this um is to take the back door out of the existing house so that I can extend the kitchen over 4T that's why there's the slider in the back door so that'll now be the the eress and access to the backyard you're making it significantly larger but I think there were other houses around you that are larger than what you're said I'm on 1.04 Acres I it's it's still I think I'm at like if you include the Finish room that was in the basement I bought to place I still think I'm at like maybe 1,700 Square ft which is on a 1.04 acre is not I actually have the um certified plot plant too if you guys want to see I mean I'm not even the addition doesn't even take up the parking area of of the home existing home so and the reality is is when you're going to do a two-car garage and you're going to have a 4ot staircase going up to the living space you lose so much with that that I actually had to kind of oversize the garage CU When we scaled it out it gave you a about a foot to open the door in one of the garage Bays mhm yeah other questions or comments from the committee questions or comments from the public or a Butters very impressive presentation yeah kind of doing it for a living move to approve move to approve 24- a036 second all in favor signify by saying I I I I I and I thank you very much you're welcome so if you'll just sign this as you heard me say before well you can you can tell her that you did a um good job tonight you're welcome do I just do just just sign there and I'll take care of the rest of it for you okay good luck with it all right thank you good night thank you I using that SI of to me sounds like a good dadad need good you the next item on the agenda is 24- a037 it's to uh replace a slider with a door and two windows at 86 Shaker House Road Christopher and Jenna Federer are the owners and Thomas a long is the agent and who do we have tonight Thomas long good evening good evening um right now I have some pictures of what's existing there now is a 12T slider looks like a Florida room not a Massachusetts room now so the thought is I put a couple pictures in there from uh houses within I don't know 100 yards of the house that look similar to what this probably was and but have like one door a window um so there I would just be taking out the slider put in a uh a nlight door two double hung windows on each side of it as I saw what it would supposedly look like in there too it was the last page on our last picture mhm so there'll be no no structural change to it because right now there's a 12T header above the slider now I'm just going to install the door and two windows underneath that header and mat the clapboards to the front of the house and the window style is the same of what's in the main house now it will look something like that one I don't know if you have that picture M yeah is that it that's it okay questions or comments from the committee when you say um it'll look like this are you putting grills in your windows yes I have a a drawing I have a drawing in there too that I did yes that one right there okay because your other windows don't have the same Grill pattern but you're going to go ahead and do it here your existing windows there's no grills in those well I the only picture is where you have the existing I think that's a casement window that's why it doesn't have gotcha okay I hav no biggy it'll look nice yeah I think it kind of goes better with the neighborhood than that 12ft slider definitely that is an improvement any other questions or comments from the committee questions or comments from the public and or abutters hearing none I will entertain a motion move to approve 24- a037 second it's been moved and seconded all in favor signify by saying I I I I I and I congratulations and uh come on down come up and sign the document right there good luck with it thank you take care good night than in the next item on the agenda is 24- a038 to replace windows at 286 Route 6A John and Mona Anton antono antono are the owners and looks like we have John and Mona here tonight so tell us about your application I'm JohnnyO this is my lovely wife Mona and we're here to go ahead and just apply to replace the old uh rotted windows that are in the house that are starting to DK and they're not energy efficient they uh leech air pretty bad and so we're just want to get those updated with more energy efficient Windows all right I will are you done with your application yes okay we have received a letter um which I will read into the record good afternoon Lisa and Old Kings Highway committee committee Ada reviewing the application it appears that the windows 14 will not be pain and it will not lend to the historic presentation and preservation of Old Kings Highway Doug and I are opposed thanks Mary um this is from uh the Robinsons who are abutters to your property so um having read that there's more here there I think that's previous this is previous yes that would be March 31st at 10:01 and the one he just read was March 31st but they're I'll read it anyway they're in agreement but now they're not okay good more okay so previously on uh March 31st actually they're both dated the same good morning Lisa I have received notice that the neighbor dinosaurs um are at 286 Roe 6A is applying for window replacement we are in agreement if the windows are pained okay and reflect the historic character I wasn't able to access the plans had the same problem with 16 Church Street so um anyway she amended her complaint because now she's um seen the applications and it appears that they will not be pained so um any comments or questions from the committee when she says pain do we think she means grills I think she means individual pains that would be my interpretation true divided lights that would be I'm guessing she means I'm I would interpret it to mean grills but I believe she's here we can ask her um well I it's subject to interpretation windows are you replacing um all the ones on the front and and a few on the sides and in the application we have two quotes one is for the grills between glass and there's another one where it's the grill is outside the window and so there's those two estimates I believe they should be in the oh okay well then so um driving around town we notice that there's some buildings that do have the grills between the glass this is you've correct yeah and then um there should be like a also an estimate sheet that I put in there for the windows and one has the uh estimate with the grills between the glass and the other one has the estimate with the grill that's outside the glass you want us to decide we're not supposed to do thata we like the grills between the glass just because it the ease of cleaning and it still keeps the look and the character of it but um really normally I would have to say that um how long have you lived there have you lived there a long time maybe two years oh okay well the the previous owners just weren't keeping up with the maintenance of those windows that are there know what was done prior so a long time yeah I mean the house was done in what 64 I think right it's not that your house was that house was uh a photograph of that house is in colonial homes magazine actually are you aware of that no yeah it's kind of famous oh okay in the neighborhood so it's it's kind of touchy about the windows um facing 6A but since the house was built um recently um I had gone under the assumption for years that it had been redone but it was it's not an antique house correct in in antique terms so normally sorry yeah no it's okay normally we would um say you you'd need to um consider repairing those but um you are set back from the road so I think I I think probably we're going to be of two mines here that um uh if you had the exterior panes your neighbor's not going to the exterior dividers your neighbor is not going to complain about it yeah uh those are rotting like in the pictures you can see where they're rotting well that can all be that can all be fixed but nonetheless um uh I think it's usually it's usually less expensive to fix what you have yeah um but if you're going to be removing moving the aluminum um uh Stone Windows right those will be gone yes so that's an improvement right I'd consider i' I'd consider this um a positive Improvement even with the grow with the fact that they are not um really the original windows but the original Windows aren't that old so they're not um because right now we have like plastic on the inside of the Windows because it's the way they're rotting and the the Sills would need to be replaced because literally you can see through yeah interior Sills or exterior Sills that are riding or all the way through the exterior part so is Window World going to they going to repair that for you out of wood or do you know what material they're going to use for the sil repair uh I believe they said it was like going to be a composite of some sort the whether it's wood or composite I'm not entirely well no it'll be wood so probably would yeah so um no maybe not actually we can buy uh yeah you can buy a plastic but it has to be painted so you were not going to be able to tell from the street no I mean it's so far away it's yeah if you're undecided between grills between the glass or simulated divided lights sounds like those are the two options yeah I you're not thinking about the exterior applied option right so we're looking at we would prefer the grills between the glass again just for the thing about grills between the glass is they um it's true that this is not an antique house but of course it's prominently situated on 6a in the heart of the historic district so it um uh appropriateness would suggest in my mind that you want the uh Windows to be uh compatible with your surrounding your neighbors um and when you're talking when you're going to remove your combination storm windows the obviously the appearance of your replacement windows are going to be much more uh visibly Apparent from the from the street um the this the grills between the glass are not going to give the same appearance as um either of the other two options so you might want to I don't know how the rest of the committee feels about this but um um it would seem to me that it would uh be easier um I think it's the second quote sorry the second quote has it with the grill outside that's divided Sim what do you call that simulated divided yeah there's one that's $2,000 more right that's that would be the one that's got on the simulated the simulated divided light in my mind is more in keeping with the historic nature of 6A yeah I think that's what I meant exactly mhm I also see um a cord here for sliders are you replacing sliders too no okay oh that might be the basement windows which are broken say two two light sliders it's a basement U slider oh I I think the it's like a basement in after I'm not sure if you got it in there but it's there small basement windows that are we saw the bad pictures that's for sure they're like in the back of the house where the so so they like casements that slide back and forth like yeah it's just a single paint of glass oh they don't slide or open they're fixed I mean they're okay I don't even want to touch them so what color do you intend in the windows white like the existing just keeping it the same yep so nothing nothing will look different and are these replacement windows where they pull out the sashes and put in a whole unit that fits right into the opening yeah the ones that are in there now looks like they're just screwed in so they would apparently just take those out and then put these new ones in so they going to be a little smaller than the existing Windows might be a little bit I think maybe like a quarter inch on either side where it might be just a okay yeah the application does specify grills between the glass good K good note 400 series DH all well GB b g any other comments or questions from the committee so this sdl is simulated divided lights with the uh between app with with those applied to the exterior not the Interior right simulat is both sides because we have exterior applied and then we have simulated divided lights I believe simulated inside and outside I think yes sdl's inside and outside oh those are inside and outside I see yeah okay and some companies have a spacer in between to make it even look even more authentic but it appears that window world does not offer that option at least it's not presented to us tonight okay so well we're not going to make that decision for you but um I think um the how do I say the board would be more amable to uh voting in your favor we should consider the but we can't decide that for you you'd have to decide and tell us what you want oh we're happy with either option so oh well that's nice to hear all right whatever you that's great then fine good then uh so we um were to we were were we to vote to amend the application to specify simulated divided lights rather than uh grids between the glass you're fine with that yeah that's fine you understand the convenience of cleaning your windows will be somewhat mitigated by that feature you have to clean between grills okay windows and any questions or comments from abuts or other interested members of the public hearing none I will entertain a motion move to approve 24- a038 as amended amended i b your pardon as amended second all in favor signify by saying I I I I I I thank you very much thank you we have to WR that up yes thank you okay either of you sign please if you're going to change your mind on anything you'll let us know I think you'll be happy with the windows but you don't have to sign that's me okay it's for him okay thank you great thank you that's the thank you good luck so is the ter it's you can use the sdl simulated divided lights if you want to we're we're doing this one not I the acronym is either gbg or sdl and we're doing sdl okay thank you oh prin of Georgia is that yours y that's yours the next item on the agenda is 24- a039 to construct a shed at one new Newfield Lane Christopher and Megan Williams are the owners and salt spray sheds is the agent and who do we have tonight good evening I'm the owner Christopher Williams okay tell us about your shed application yep I uh needing some a little more room at the house so we would like to construct a 10x 12 shed I believe it's the mothur vineyard U variety that salt uh salt spray sheds offers and I think you have all the either pictures plot planed where I like to place it as well supposed to have a little Loft on the inside it's going to have one man door one window okay bordon Batton bordon baton yes sir is that it okay questions or comments from the committee I went by today I don't recall your house what the roof was on your house is it asphalt shingles it's the same dark gray that the Shadle match the the shingles on the house okay thank you yeah so this came before us as a um certificate of exemption and um I requested for COA thank you for complying with that um because of the proxim this is a corner lot and it's um quite visible from West Yarmouth Road also um there's another road um the cut through Road Pine Street thank you that in intersects so it's a sort of there's a lot of traffic there so it's highly visible and um ordinarily uh were it not for that I would have Exempted it um and then we discussed maybe moving the shed to the opposite side but there's um because of the the Topography of the land that actually goes up as you approach yes the back the other back corner so it would make it even more visible so it's sort of uh I decided to let the committee decide on uh on um the appropriateness and uh and you're as I understand it am manable to either location either yes I would prefer lower the one the original down by West Yarmouth okay um there is down the road we'd actually like to put up a fence to probably block that off okay and or plant something that'll block that as well so any questions or comments from the committee any questions or comments from abutters or other interested members of the public hearing none I will entertain a motion move to approve 24- a039 second it's been moved and seconded all in favor signify by saying I I I I I and I thank you very much and thank you for your patience with us problem okay right there sign a date you may date it or I can date it either one the signatures what's critical thank you good luck with it much good night good night oops thank you thanks the next item on the agenda is 24- a040 it's to install a fence in the rear of two Village Lane David Welsh and Shannon McRoberts are the owners and I assume we have David and Shannon here tonight yes I'm David and this is Shannon I judge that okay all right and thanks for presenting your application to us uh of course uh yeah we bought the house a couple years ago uh and we are recently engaged and we would like to put a six foot stockade fence on the back of our property line that's some engagement gift yes congratulations thank you yeah so I noticed that there's an existing fence on the Union Street side will the new fence meet with that fence will come together at the corner like to um cut the corner and I think it's going to be about 3 feet or so and just connect the to so they will they will connect so six feet same it's the same height it's that yeah there's existing Stockade as well right that's right okay thank you back I didn't visit the property so is there any fence in the back of the property that's it's not in the back of our property uh if you look at the plot plan of our Butters um our property and I think it's maybe for Village Lane our neighbor um it matches the Corner House and they have a fence on their half okay you know so it wouldn't really connect to that fence but it would be on the same side of their the back of their property okay any other questions or comments from the committee no questions or comments from abutters or other interested members of the public hearing none I'll entertain a motion move to approve 24- a040 second it's been moved and second it all in favor signify by saying I I I I I and I by thank you you're welcome um right there please one signature one signature is suff sufficient it's very smart of you to let her do it good night good luck with it good luck sh thank you thanks and that brings us to the tabled application um 24-8 a020 which needs to be unted I move we untable 24- a020 second all in favor of untable the application signify by saying I I I I I and I and now we will hear 24- a020 it's to install 40 solar panels on the side and rear roofs at 16 Church Street Peter Barnes is the owner and venture home ER is the agent I have Peter Barnes the the clumsy owner okay flying in so this your second time here and we have received some letters which I will read into the record dear o Kings Highway committee we are the homeowners of 1C Church Street in yarmouthport and are writing to submit comments about project 24 - a020 proposed by Peter Barn owner and venture home solar agent to install 40 solar panels on the side and rear roofs at 16 Church Street we are in full support of the installation placed to optimize energy production as determined by the solar installer and homeowner we are not opposed to visibility of the panels from the streets either from Church Street or or Route 6A and in fact support solar panel visibility there is evidence there is evidence that having panels in the public view makes them more socially acceptable and furthers adoption as described here which is a link to something uh climate change is posing a great risk to Cape Cod and the more we as a community can do to help accelerate a transition to clean energy and show our support for our neighbors actions the more future generations of Cape cotters can continue to enjoy all we love about the cape sincerely Mira um subian sub did I get all the syllables zamian and Peter proo um and um another letter dear o Kings Highway committee the revised version removes a set of panels on the back West roof and adds panels to two roofs facing south the two new locations can be seen from 6A at the church Street intersection as well as from the southern part of Church Street our previous response is attached on page two our objection stance thank you uh Michael and Abraham grater 17 Church Street yarmouthport and I'll read the previous letter dated March 14th dear o Kings Highway committee as much as we would like to accommodate our neighbors we object to the proposed installation the solar panels proposed by the owners of 16 Church Street if installed will be seen by anyone walking along 6A and Church Street and there are many who do so on a daily basis please see the attached photos which were taken yesterday solar panels will be an isore and will lower the value of all the neighboring houses we took pains to preserve the style of the neighborhood in restoring our house at 17 Church Street and we expect our neighbors to do the same imagine if we had replaced our lower clock with a digital CL instead of restoring the original one anyone who cares about the historical character of our neighborhood will agree that solar panelists don't belong here unless they can be installed where nobody but their owners can see them thank you uh uh Michael and Abraham grer 17 Church Street uh um and then uh Dear Lisa and the Old Kings Highway committee attached as a photo of the direct exposure of the proposed solar panels from the intersection of 6A and Church Street they will be in full view of 6A during fall winter and in partial view during summer in addition there is ample uh area on the roof of a detached garage near the property boundary line that could house the panels avoiding sensitive exposure to 6A and church placing the panels on the rear garage will also remedy the exposure to for church please review a Zillo link thank you Mary and Doug Robinson for church Street dear historic committee I was shocked to receive the request for variant to add 40 solar panels to a roof that abuts my property in the historic district of yarmouthport my property will be impacted by the glare and this addition detracts from the historical quality of the neighborhood this addition will also set precedent for future modern editions and solar panels Recent research has shown that degrading solar panel degrading solar panels leech lead and C um I think she means into the atmosphere posing an environmental debate as the committee that project that protects the historic architecture of this lovely area I hope you will decline this request Douglas and Mary Robinson Fort Church Street um and um dear King's Highway committee here's a concerning article on the negative effects of solar panels on waterfall in addition to the historical concerns um the sides of 16 Church Street property to be fitted phase 6A and are also visible from Church Street so yes no oh I think you might as well okay just be thorough with the permission of um my fellow Committee Member I'll read this one as well the role of this committee is to preserve the character of the Old Kings Highway historical district and covering multiple roofs with solar panels in full view of the street runs contrary to that role at takes thought and effort to modernize a property in a sensitive and historically informed matter but it can be done and it's worth doing I also think that Liz Argo should recuse herself from the vote since her job creates a conflict of interest Abraham greater 17 Church Street I think that covers all the letters get us okay um so got a division of opinion here uh expressed so I would expect that it's going to be an emotional subject um many of us live there of course because we loved the history and the architecture and the beauty of the homes on the cape and um there's a reason why I moved all of two miles from bray Farm to this house um because we and we didn't even we saw it in the Cape Cod Times while we were still living in Detroit I saw the article on a Tuesday we put an offer in on the house that Sunday we we are completely attached to and want nothing but the best for that area um I think the Venture solo people and the latest designs have come up with a much better way to uh reduce visibility as much as possible yes we didn't jump over to the detached garage to put anything on there I think they're trying to keep it as reasonable as possible there'd be a significant amount of trenching to run those lines U what conduit I have going to that detached garage is very small and I couldn't pull anything more through it so they would either have to cut through the parking lot or around it either way that's a significant increase to the install price um we are working hard and we will do what it takes uh I had a friend of mine years ago not that long ago I sat on a board much like yours in in Michigan and the argument was about the new digital road signs Billboards and the argument was made because they show things for a period of time and then they're gone and they do and then that it distracts the drivers and people will see what in their turn towards it and then we had an expert that said yeah maybe the first two times they saw it they drive by it every day and they never really pay attention to it again um I know people come and and for summer to see beautiful neighborhoods and I think they'll still be able to walk through it I think you would have to know the panels who there and really kind of go out of your way to see them um and I agree with other people uh I said this last week the infrastructure is very delicate on the cape uh we need to do what we can to lessen our impact and everybody's uh whether you're recycling or what you're doing everybody's contribution counts um I drive an electric vehicle and I would love to know the feeling when I plug that in at home that it's coming from my solar panels because that completes the circle and doesn't make me a hypocrite so uh and again it's an emotional unit we're speaking from their hearts and I understand this but I really think we can come to a compromise and accomplish this that's an incredibly large house and it's carbon footprint we've tried to minimize and we want to continue to um just not for our benefit I'm I'm not going to be here long enough to see it but uh for my kids and for the other generations to come this is the way we need to move forward and we need to protect things here on the cave thank you questions or comments from the committee um Mr Barnes what color is the roof is your roof currently um it's it's a dark shingle asphalt shingle great like it looks like a light you mean it's like light gray these but so I was curious CU those will be black the roof the existing roof asphalt roof it looks like a light gray in the picture is it a light gray so it's light gray without looking I couldn't tell you what color shirt I'm wearing um I don't pay much attention to Colors okay thank you I mean they will they're not it's not black on black right I I just curious what color yeah so which panels are we uh or do the letters address that can be seen from 6A because um that's really what we're concerned with not I mean I'm partic personally concerned with Church Street but that's not um doesn't come under our uh guidelines the current new guidelines so which which panels exactly can be seen uh according to the letters from 6A I think they may be the panels that were moving if you look at the new layout you should have received from Venture we have moved some of the panels to the other side of the roof more towards the north side so those letters don't address the new layout I'm sorry the the letters that that were read into the record don't address the new layout they address the old layout yes yes cuz they Ventures been working on it I'm not sure if they're on the line um well no one one letter does the revised version uh removes a set of panels from the back West roof and adds panels to on two roofs facing south the two new locations can be seen from 6A at the SE Street intersection as well as from the southern part of church I believe these three one two three those three roofs face South one two three is that right are they well there's a I think very tall wall of Evergreens between that right but those are the roofs that face South correct sorry are these the roofs that face South um yes those are the roofs that fa South thank you the question on the roof color is relevant because um the Old Kings Highway Regional historic D district has within the last few years maybe the last two years um adopted an exemption for rooftop solar panel arrays uh but they have to qualify under 10 specific uh considerations one of which being uh that the roof shingle should be of a dark color to blend with a solar panel array so um you come close to qualifying for an exemption under which we would have no purview we would have to approve the application but you don't I I don't agree um solar panel exemption is automatic if they if you qualifies under all 10 automatic it can be seen from R 6A it that well then it doesn't qualify under the exemp it's that's one of the that's one of the disqualifications um okay we're we're we're we're saying the same thing in different languages If he if he if he complies with all 10 qualifications he's Exempted he does doesn't he doesn't okay so um but he doesn't apply not just one two three correct right so that's why he's coming before us that's exactly right okay so just now that we've got that clear um there's I think there's actually three there's three things that don't comply there supposed to be a rectangular rectangular maybe it would be easy if I were to read these uh plot plan showing location of house on property you've done that check drawing showing accurately the layout and location of the solar panel arrays and any related wies systems or features to be placed on the exterior of the dwelling check roof length equal to or less than 50 ft I believe you qualify roof height equal to or less than 35 ft roof pitch equal to or less than 712 pitch roof shingles shall be of a dark color to blend with the solar panel array um solar panel array shall have a a continuous rectangular pattern and shall not be broken up with visual gaps or disjointed sections solar panel thicknesses shall not exceed 2 in solar panel height above roof shall be less than 6 in no change in the appear to the appearance of the building except for the addition of the panels and um do we talk about um the oh under under the establishment of the general heading before those specifics under the esta The Establishment under Section 7 of chapter 470 the acts of 1973 is amended of an exemption for flush mounted non-lossy all black rooftop solar panel arrays that are to be affixed to a single family residential dwelling that is less than 75 years of age that's problem too uh and is not part of a listed contributing property on the Massachusetts a national register of historic buildings and sites and is not visible from Route 6A or any other designated Scenic Road there that's it in its entirety so other comments from or questions from the committee well I would weigh in and and I think that that Venture and and um and Peter have done a great job of trying to find a compromise and um I'm no longer in the business for whomever was concerned about that but I do know know enough about solar and I I believe in every word that Mr Barnes said in terms of the need for it I do drive an electric car it's powered by my solar I live in oaking Highway historic and it does feel fantastic to be able to not have to use gasoline that is not has no bearing on our purview here um I drove around and and did the 360 and my interpretation of the view of the solar panels is you're going to have to look real hard I was on um a part of a of the the hearing on the solar panels at the on the Dennis police station and part of their decision it was a struggle for them that happens to be in their historic district and they decided it would they timed how long they would have to look away from the road to see the solar panels and based on that they decided we can put the solar panels on so I kind of have that feeling about this uh you do have a neighbor who's very in support of it you also have neighbors who are not in support of it so which makes it very difficult but I believe from my viewing of the the house that it's going to be glimpses and not um uh an objectionable very visible solar installation but it can be seen if if you look for it you will find it no excuse me I don't mean to sound Flip but along those lines um there's houses uh on 6a and on Church Street um that have lights shining on them and those lights have solar panels what do you electricity wasn't run to them they've got solar panels shining lights on their house now I can see that when I walk by the house I don't know that that's I can see it when I walk down hey I can point out the front yard of the house that's got them um granted there's a big difference in scale but do you really lose your illusionment of being in a old historic town when you see solar lights in the front yard or if you crane your neck and you can see something up on somebody's roof how you really have to look forward to get to it I mean I'm with you but I I I will I believe my comment is that I know that there are a lot of people that walk 6A and also walk Church Street and they are much more visible clearly from Church Street than they are visible from 6A if you're walking and look glance over so I feel like they are visible from 6A and there are five criteria on the exemption that you don't meet so that's of concern to me so which panels would have to be removed it can be seen is that going to make the this um this whole project null to any um well um if you if you rely on the roof if removes the things that can be seen or can he move them to some place where they can't be seen iing it's not it's not up to us to decide how many much it costs if you have to move it to a garage that where it can't be seen that we we don't consider how much it costs I know Austin and if I have to do it I'll do it you know me there there's no doubt about it I don't want to cut back on the kilowatts too much right there's no it coming close to your usage the output sorry is your output coming close to your usage uh somewhat uh I'd leave that up to venture they've run the numbers on it um but it's a very large house and we're doing uh a few more uh projects to make more efficient you want to plug in your car but putting it heat heat pumps too right are you going to have a battery is that hey I have a a backup generator but uh okay a storage battery no no that's not part of this plan no I with the backup generator it was already there if I didn't have the generator I would have gone with backup battery system as well I was thinking for your car yeah well I still do it from the generator yeah I had one in uh uh Michigan as well and I could charge off that we lived on a area that lost electricity a lot uhhuh so we have a buts here and I believe I recognize some of them so um I think now I'll ask for any AB butter and or abutters who wish to speak to address us all right and would you step up to the podium sir thank you identify yourself and where you live thank you Mr chairman thank you Council um Doug Robinson uh Doug and Mary Robinson you probably seen a few letters at Fort Church Street and we do want to welcome Peter Barnes and his lovely wife here to the neighborhood we're happy he's here um and we just would love to see this project go through which works well for all the criteria required to keep as Peter pointed out historical nature of our neighborhood uh and so the big issue is of course these Southern facing panels if to me and we'll have other people speaking but uh if we could eliminate or at least Peter had another way to move those Southern facing panels maybe that would be another alternative I I've got just a picture here off of um the um Google Maps it just shows the whole layout of the property I don't know if you can see it from here but uh where you're sitting but um a lot of roof space of course now Peter has on the east side of his house about 25 panels or so a majority of the panels but as Peter also mentioned that uh the garage has a considerable amount of space um and maybe there's a little bit of issue on running wiring either through his under his driveway or maybe around it but maybe that's something he could look at but to me if he could move all those panels from the Southern Exposure me to the garage maybe that would work so that would be one of my suggestions and uh I thank you for your time appreciate it can we ask them to be specific about which ones they think he needs to move ask Mr chairman do we know at what rate Jesus yes sir do we do we know at what rate the Improvement to panel efficiency what rate is that occurring at if you go back 25 about 15% 15% so in 6 years the number of panels required for 7 years the number of panels required is that cumulative or flat that's that like your furnace it it operates at an efficiency that is it's rating so solar panels because they don't work at night have a very low efficiency they're improving at 15% perom you think oh that I no I'm not I'm not answering how much they're improving over time construction of new panels I is that what you're trying to figure out what they're doing is getting more watts per panel more watts per panel then that's I'm wondering if time solves Mr Barn's problem and that if the panels produce a lot more watts over time a lot less panels are needed so you're saying if they more efficient as your as time goes by in techn go back if we go back 20 if we go back to before you could plug the electric car in it was unthinkable how about if we just look at the project that came before us two weeks ago and he wanted to add panels he has 350 watt panels on the back of his house and he's adding 41 on the front of his house so that's and that was 2022 when he came in front of you to have the ones on the back so that gives you how fast they're they're changing from 2022 to 2024 they got about 100 Watts more per panel what's the Baseline what was the start point for him well for me when I started 200 so 200 now become 300 or more it's now up to 410 410 and I I can look and see what yours are rated at do you know no I don't know right I'll look okay not off the top of my head I've looked at are there any other abuts who would like to address US hi everybody I'm a Grammy grer from 17th Church Street good evening um you read my notes so I'm not going to repeat myself I think that you have to decide whether you are responsible from six the bay to maintain the nature and the character of our of our houses of our neighborhood it's a very simple question I commend Liz for her great green energy work will you supportive of it just like Doug said I have no complaints I just don't want to see them I don't want to see them when I walk on on Church Street and I think you need to consider that even though it's not in your bylaw you can see them the big panels on the Eastern side I give you a a a diagram this diagram you can see them from the library you can see them from the other side of of 6A as you walk and I agree with you there are hundreds of people that walk there every day and from the intersection you can see all three of them I know that I'm on a butter but uh there are other houses that are not a Butters that can see it the in from the upper levels they can see all three of them the two houses next to us can see them I can even see the one proposed on the one close to Church Street I can see it from my driveway so I have no objection Peter I think it's a great idea I think I think green energy when it makes sense is is fantastic and we should all work for it can we find a way so that we you don't have to see them that's all it's very simple and I really thank you for the opportunity to being here I did not know Liz that you are not in the business anymore so it's not nothing personal I'm just problem I just want to make sure that we are all on the same page no problem and we appreciate the opportunity to be here thank you very much thank you and these these modules are 425s they're 425 watts each uh are there others buts yes yes sir hello again John Anon 286 Route 6A um sorry but Peter and um from the backyard I can see well from the driveway I can actually see your entire house I want to say that my wife and I are in full support of anything that he wants to do and we've had solar on our other house like you and we know um how great it is it's um times change technology changes and um so I think it's something that uh I'm all for so um anything that you need to do to make changes if you want to put them on the back of the garage whatever um absolutely you know you have our blessing consent to to do whatever you need to do to get those um over to a place where you know people feel more comfortable with them so okay thank you thank you thank you anyone else okay um so uh Mr Barnes when you were here before us and again tonight maybe to a somewhat lesser degree you expressed um more than a willingness I would I would characterize it as an eagerness to come to a Meeting of Minds with your neighbors to see if you could find an amicable resolution to satisfy your desire for efficient energy and their desire um to have the uh the protections That Old Kings Highway afforded applied to them in this instance as they see fit so um I would like to see that done if possible and although I um realize that you've made the effort to come here twice as as have the abuts um I'm wondering if it might not be advisable to continue this one more time to see if you could meet with your neighbors directly uh which I understand has not yet been done no are would would you be willing to uh entertain that I idea and come back one more time to see if we can put this to bed and U make everyone as happy as it is possible to make everyone happy including us including us right I I've worked with u all kinds of coalitions to try to get certain projects done in the past and uh I've also want to keep an open mind because uh any input is appreciated um I've built buildings but uh that were Green certified but I didn't have a lot of solar experience on uh private residents so um anybody that can help me out with this I am more than willing to listen all right uh one thing I learned uh so far in life was I sure the heck don't know everything and if I don't listen to the people that know more about something than I do I'm going to make a mistake so I'll take any input I can get and if we can solve this iic and keep the nature of the neighborhood and everybody as happy as possible um compromises go both ways good well where there's a will there's a way so thing is we can't advise you on this I mean you know you've already the application is is active so you can't ask us if we're going to vote for something in the future unless you bring the application before us and then we can discuss it and v on it I you know the last thing I would want to do is to build something that would be an irritant and an eye sore to my neighbors wow and they have to come home every day I love living there and if I had to look at something and I've lived other places where that did happen um it would irritate me right and uh I I I thank them for taking the time to come to this meeting and express their opinions and uh I would like a chance to sit down all of them and see if we can't come to a well that's well I feel that's very well stated and I will um entertain a motion to motion to continue continue the application second all in favor of continuing this application I I excuse me I I I and thank you all Peter I just wanted to say I really appreciate your willingness to work with your neighbors that's a lot of people would not be that way thank you very much amen thank you all for taking your times and I know you got a healthy paycheck for doing this we want a raise we're going we're going straight out conference one time and Abby Hoffman was a speaker and the topic was how to be committed without getting committed all right right well on that happy note thank you all for coming hofman good night your dog's that my dog don't you have a big yellow lab Lab you it right yeah how is he she's great oh she s right yes very good I haven't seen her recently so well I've been away oh be she was on vacation she's home now take care thank you bye bye there isn't the speed at which electric all things electric so like the Tesla there's a new three version there's a new version of Tesla 3 just come out of electricity Tes is accent the accent I and I don't know about Teslas I was using is an example everything about it is much better than the original one in 10 years including his battery life price has gone down my question is at what rate this is further discuss our solar panels getting better not F enough to Warrant oh yeah we we can't have these kinds of discussions so gentlemen if I excuse me if I could ask you to step outside so we can conduct the rest of our meeting than very much thank you thank you you're welcome night okay so we need to approve the minutes of the March 25th hearing mooved to approve the minutes from the March 25th hearing there a second you can still second even if you weren't here yes anybody could I'll second um second it okay I'll in favor who are qualified to vote signify by saying I I iing hi okay approved so um as I know all of you are aware um our vice chairman has resigned and I want to publicly thank Rick for his service to this committee um his dedication to the mission of Old Kings Highway uh his passion for uh preservation historic preservation um and and uh his tireless energies that he expended on our behalf and I'm sure I share with you all a uh a wish for the best for him in the future here here here here here now uh we need uh to elect a new Vice chairman so I will entertain a nomination for vice chairman nominate Cinder is there a second to the nomination you're you're a voting member tonight okay it's been moved and seconded all in favor seconded yes I I interpreted that as your second uh so it's been moved and seconded all in favor of Cindy's uh appointment as Vice chairman of this committee signify by saying I I I and I congratulations Cindy okay now um at the last meeting I read a letter and um I was informed by our lawyer that um the proper way to have done that was to have it um was to have the public duly notified so that we were in compliance with u with the law and not in violation of the open meeting law specifically so I'm going to read the letter again for the record it's to Joanne Crowley chair of the planning board Dear Miss Crowley we the members of yarmis Old Kings Highway committee believe that the list of Scenic roads and the scenic road map on the town's website need to be updated specifically owing to their historic significance Scenic beauty or both we advocate for the addition of the following roads Thatcher Street Church Street Winter Street Cent Center Street and Old Church street according these roads Scenic Road status will enable us to give them our prioritize protection thereby aiding our committee to fulfill its mandate to preserve and protect quote the unique aesthetic and historic character of the historic district and that's excerpted from the introduction in the Old Kings Highway Regional historic district commission bulletin it is worth noting that with the exception of Route 6A all of the roads currently designated as Scenic were done so in 1973 and 1974 a half century ago root 6A was so designated by Act of the Massachusetts General Court in 1992 updating the list and map is long overdue parenthetically we question the inclusion of Weir Road and Long's road on the list and the map in actuality Long's road is not a road but a long dirt driveway to a private resident at the end of a cool doac to sum up we urge the planning board to initiate whatever action or actions it may deem necessary to realize the update as soon as it is practicable to practicable to do so respectfully Robert Wilkins chairman of yarmis Old Kings Highway committee and these are letters for you all to look at um and I will not ask for a vote um unless you're prepared to to um make a motion to adopt this letter and to have me send it out um but if you'd like to digest it and bring it up again at the next meeting that's fine I had one question that I actually um how I the process I was thinking from my viewpoint if I were a resident on on one of these streets I would like to be informed of the possible change to its designation so that's why I I I would like to know that be as part of this before I sort of rush headlong into it well that's why I'm I'm redoing this tonight okay so that the public was duly notified now whether they're paying attention or not is another issue that's what concerns me actually but they've been notified legally notified yeah but I hope the the planning department part of what planning would do is notify everybody who's got an address that would be affected well I don't know what the process would be on the on the planning board how they would be making their decision how they were going to be uh informing people if they decide that they need to inform people beyond what we've done tonight that's up to them but um um so this letter is a recommendation to the planning board and if we were to move to approve it that you'd get the support report of the king H Committee in favor of the letter to go to the Planning Commission is that correct right the letter the letter is the letter is a suggestion or a recommendation right they can decide whether they want to do this or not so we as a committee need to decide if we're in agreement with your letter in essence yes that's right so we did see it two weeks ago it's pretty substantially the same there's I think one line is different about the Longs Road yes because I actually found it finally Siri found it for me I couldn't find it and um so I asked Siri and Siri took me to there's a post says 82 Longs Road and it's just Meandering dirt driveway it's you know where it is it's interesting it's right next to uh Jane and Greg Hill Brand's house at the end of uh at at the end of um weano weano ends in a little circle and and Jane hilderbrand who sat on this committee for a number of years lives next door to the dirt driveway um which I didn't clock it it's probably 150 yards long something like that and it opens up into a field and and a and a resonance that's it well if the committee feels they are in a position to vote I'm prepared to make a motion go ahead why don't you make the motion I make a motion to um submit Bob's well-crafted letter to the planning board uh about adding Thatcher Street Church Street Winter Street Center Street and Old Church Street um as recommending they become Scenic byways in yarmouthport I second just for clarification on the motion so are you advocating that I delete the part about sorry I'm not I'm just I'm in favor of the letter as written okay all right y so it's been moved and seconded uh all in favor of submitting the letter to the to M Crowley of the clanning board sign if by saying I I I I I I thank you all uh I will oh by the way I think you're aware of the fact that in compliance with the open meeting law uh there will be no items discussed new business will not be on the agenda unless there is actual new business that has been posted and the public is duly informed henceforth I'll entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second all in favor signify by saying I all thank you all good night