##VIDEO ID:DdY8NDMxZIA## [Music] G man go for it Sean how are you tonight how are you good evening good Jay I thought you were down on the Caribbean that's what we've heard I wish came back specifically for the meeting yeah I like the chill you got it today yeah I hear it's chilly yeah although it's not very warm down here today if you'll make you feel any better yeah just a little okay what time do we have are we at six o'clock yet yep we're good we're ready okay very good one second here okay can everybody hear me yes yep okay uh good evening welcome to the regularly scheduled meeting of the Yama zoning board of appeals today's date is January 9th 2025 we have six matters on our agenda tonight um my name is Shan iigo I am the chairman and the first matter we're actually going to go out of order because we have one that's going to be a continued matter and that is petition 5144 Alfredo and Janelle l uh property location 21 uh television Lane West Jou mass is anybody here on that matter raise your hand anybody here Dolores on that matter no Mr chairman okay um they're seeking a special permit to increase the ridge height of a non-conforming structure they're requesting a continuance to the February 13th date they have signed an extension amended application to request additional relief they're waiting for a stamped plan that's my understanding um does anybody have any on the board does anyone have any questions on just whether or not is there space on the February 13th that they're requesting for uh that would be a good question Dolores how many do we have on for that evening yep they they can fit on that how many do we have right now including them we have five yeah okay all right I'm good um anybody have any questions regarding the request for continuance no i' be glad to make a motion to Grant a continuance to February 13th yes I'll second okay got a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I any opposed hearing none that carries unanimously that matter was continued until February 13 the next matter in our petition is petition 5 151 Christopher M Roberts and Linda M Roberts Trustees of 12 Town Brook Road realy trust property location at 12 Town Brook Road West Jou Mass it's in an r25 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit per section 407 to create an accessory apartment on the second floor of a proposed garage we have the petitioner here you are giving us what are you giving us sir okay Sean he's handing out floor plans for the apart for the uh yeah for the what will be the apartment so I'll stamp it and give it to Deloris okay now is that different from the floor plan that I have that was submitted is it different I'm not exactly sure hold on a second Let's uh let's back up here second okay uh could you please identify yourself for the record sir yes thank you my name's uh Don Bracken I'm a professional engineer and Survey with uh Bracken engineering representing the applicants uh Christopher and Linda Roberts and where are they tonight uh Linda Roberts is online and can be available onine she'll be available for questions okay and you have permission to speak on their behalf I presume yes I do on the application I'm listed as the agent with the owner signature okay okay all right so you submitted a uh is this an amended floor plan or this is the same I I don't I don't think so I think what happened when my office submitted the full set of architectural plans the plans may have shown the space where the apartment is going as unfinished um when I was getting ready for the meeting I wasn't 100% sure which plan you had so I just handed out a floor plan of the prop close one bedroom apartment okay all right well I don't have that but I'll presume that they have it and we'll go from there um okay why don't you tell us what you want to do I think it's pretty self-explanatory but go ahead yes thank you uh we're applying for a special permit under Section 407 uh in order to construct a 630 square foot one bedroomroom apartment over an existing oh I'm sorry over a proposed uh three car garage I have the plan up uh in front of everybody um on the plan uh the proposed garage is shown in purple um right now on the site there's an existing Foundation highlighted in yellow that a building permit was issued for um and there was no activity it wasn't followed through so they're currently in the process of reapplying for the permit uh for that proposed single family dwelling uh which is going to be two bedrooms uh so we're going to have a total of three bedrooms on the site uh we do have a septic permit uh that was issued last year uh for both the two-bedroom main house and the one-bedroom accessory apartment um s's also serviced by Town water uh the proposed uh garage with the apartment meets all zoning setback requirements and lot coverage requirements uh and in accordance with the bylaw the entrance uh to the garage apartment does not come from the front of the building but from the back and from the back there's uh two uh access points for ESS requirements uh we think that the architectural plans have been drawn and prepared uh to make it look like the apartment is subordinate to the main house um as you can see it's it's about uh looks like a half a story uh from the front the only portion of the apartment that you're going to see is the uh small shed Dormer uh facing the road it has a a full Dormer on the back of the of the back of the proposed structure uh we meet the zoning bylaw by being less than 800 square ft maximum this will be an owner occupied uh family type unit uh the bylaw requires three parking spaces for that use and we're proposing four parking spaces um other than that I think we meet all the requirements of the bylaw and I'd be happy to answer any questions okay a couple things here uh the first issue I have is we uh we issued a special permit in 20201 for a single story two-bedroom single bath Ranch you now have a different plan that you're submitting [Music] uh well actually you're not even submitting it you're just asking for the Adu you're not asking for approval of your plan first problem I have is you don't have a primary structure that has an occupancy permit so I don't know how we give you a special permit for an accessory dwelling unit when you don't have a primary unit um so that that's the first one the second issue I have is in my judgment I think your special permit has expired from the 2021 I don't think that it's been acted on in time but I would probably defer to the building department and get a uh a written recommendation as far as that's concerned uh I would suggest that we granted a special permit for a single family ranch I think you need to at the very least modify that special permit by coming back and asking that you be allowed to build this new structure that you want to build um and I would need to see a landscape plan as well which I don't see a landscape plan uh thirdly um you say you have a three car garage G the bylaw doesn't say three car garage I think it says for three cars or more let me just check something here and I would suggest to you that the size of those garages will hold much more than three cars the one on the left is 38 feet deep I think you could probably fit at least 10 cars in those gar gares today's cars the size they are Sean the problem with the size excuse me the BW right now is probably it says two and two is just so what for what you wanted if that's what you wanted to know two for the I'm sorry j the bylaw right now is is is requiring two off street parking spaces for the accessory apartment and two for the house so it would be full no I'm talking about the garage understood understood I'm just yeah bringing up the other yeah um and we we we can get to that in just a moment um but I I don't even see where the parking well I'm sure you could probably get the parking in there for the two and the two but you're looking for I think you're going to need a special permit for that garage that you want to put there because I think it clearly is going to hold more than three cars um and lastly I think you're going to have to demonstrate that there's going to be no undo hazards nuisance or congestion by doing the proposal that you're suggesting on that particular lot and I'm not sure how familiar you are with that particular lot but that roadway right there is very very busy [Music] um so those are some concerns that I have right now um and so what I'm going to is does does anybody else not share my concerns on the board no I I would agree with you the permit original special permit doesn't Define what's there what they're proposing so it seems to be needs modification at minimum well I have the building permit in front of me the original building permit and that's for a that's for a single story Ranch um you know I as far as the house is concerned I'm looking at the layout of this house and I I think it's kind of stretching the imagination that it's only a two-bedroom house I mean you've got libraries that are adjacent to bathrooms you've got walk-in closets upstairs that are the size of bedrooms um you've got one huge bedroom at the top of the house how many people are proposed to live in this house the primary residen uh sir can before I answer that question can can I go back and address your other points and then we'll get well why don't we why don't we finish this question first how many people are going to be living in that house I mean I I honestly can't tell you I I know that it's an older couple with grown children so it could be two four or whatever but I would assume um you know anything could change in the future as well you know after it's built so so um well I right right now I would say that the well actually anything couldn't change in the future because it's got to be the primary residence of the petitioner I mean I'm not referring to that I'm referring to how many people physically would be in the house at at any one time um she's on the she's on the line why don't you ask her how many people are going to live in that house the can you connect yeah it's I'm Linda Roberts on the owner okay this is we my husband and I plan to retire from our positions in the ucket in the next two to three years and we'd like to move over there we have two grown children that live out of state and this would be our primary residence and it was our hope that we could build a garage apartment to rent to possibly people that work at the um elderly assisted living across the street MH okay uh what what is the purpose for such a big garage we don't own an RV but we were thinking about purchasing an RV what is your physical address right now I live at 13 Milestone Crossing in net okay do you vote over there in Nantucket I'm a lifelong native so is my husband generational and I do vote here okay but we have aging parents and they've been over at Cape cot Hospital quite a bit for treatments as has my husband and we wanted something on the mainland that would be close to the hospital okay okay um well okay I we'll we'll come if that's all you have right now thank you ma'am we'll probably come back to you if the board has any questions for you but I wanted to address the ranch permit when we bought this when we bought the property it came with the building permits and the building um plans and we looked at the home and it wasn't to our liking and the quality of the materials that were going to be used wasn't to our likings so we went to a designer and he redesigned the home okay and the person that we purchased it from was the one that took out the building permits not us no realized that we granted him a special permit in 2021 a building a special permit is good for 24 months uh the building permit was taken out in 2022 uh after it was granted a six-month extension um and I you know I'm not quite sure if it's substantially been acted upon just by putting a foundation in there that's all that's done yeah know I know it but I'm just saying as far as your special permit is concerned I think you're going to and I think you either need a new special permit to build this house or you're going to need to modify the existing special permit with this plan and you're not asking for that tonight we can't no we were just we want to be able to job cost everything and have a builder come in and build everything at once but we oh no I understand understand that I know I understand exactly what you want to do that's the right way to do it my my point is though is all you've asked for tonight is for permission to build an Adu an accessory correct because if that isn't possible then we're going to scrap the garage and just go for the house for now well I don't think we can grant you a special permit for an accessory dwelling unit unless you have an existing dwelling unit there okay and I think that in order for you to put an existing dwelling here you need to either modify the special permit that was granted in 2021 that would be an application to modify that one or you need to ask for a new special permit I don't know exactly the history here and I would like some information from the Building Commissioner um but one might suggest or argue that that your special permit has lapsed and so you need to get a new one but at the very least I think you're going to need to at least modify the existing special permit and other things I think you're going to need is you're going to need a uh there's supposed to be affidavit submitted with this as well that you swear under oath that this is going to be your primary residence I see those in the file and and once again I think the size of this garage and what the bylaw says is more than three cars uh I think you can clearly get more than three cars in this garage so it's not the number of doors it's what you can put in the garage how many cars so I think you're going to need a special permit for that as well um but before we do anything else what I'd like to do is I'd like to go and hear from the the rest of the board members to see if they have any questions thank you okay uh dick do you have any questions for the petitioner uh not really I think I believe I recognize what you're saying about coming back for a new one is probably in order here um I uh you know it's it's it's a lot nicer property than what had been approved before actually uh I don't I'm not sure unless they're smart cars or something I don't think you'll get more than two cars in the 38t uh depth of the big garage which I think you're talking about doing for for a camper uh you know it's I don't have any real problems with it I mean other than the problem I always have with these things the adus where where we're essentially making duplexes out of uh what would normally be single family lots and uh uh but town has spoken on that so so be it and I don't have any other questions uh that I can I can think of I don't have any real problems with it other than the fact of what you're determining are that relevant to the logistics of special permits okay Jay I don't have anything I think you've covered everything pretty extensively so I think it obviously needs to be brought back in a different form at least it's a new special permit or whatever oh okay John yeah I'd agree I don't have anything additional but I would agree with Jay oh Anthony yeah I confirm the same understanding of how we have to apply and what's necessary here so I agree with everyone here okay well um okay so I I think we need a few things here um I think what you're going to have to do is go back and amend your petition I think you're going to ask have to ask for relief for that garage uh I think going to have to ask for a modification of the 2021 special permit or you're going to need a new special permit you may want to talk to the Building Commissioner about that and as far as the Adu is concerned you're going to need affidavits from the owners and now ma'am I heard you say in two to three years you and your husband are going to move into this place are you going to leave this unoccupied until then I was going to rent the agu unit to somebody that works over there because I don't want to leave it empty and we hope to spend weekends there well it has to be your primary residence well I we can't retire from our job yet well unfortunately you don't meet the criteria of the bylaw unless you're living there you can't rent it okay so I just I want to make sure everybody's clear because we're very strict about this so we're willing to hear your petitions if you want to come back but we're going to hold you to this uh and also I I think we're going to need to put some type of a restriction on the number of people that can live in the main house too I would suggest that we'd be restricting that to probably well it's a big house but the way you've got it laid out with only two bedrooms you've got two bedrooms and three full baths which is a little odd why do you need three full baths for two bedrooms right have that in my house right now and okay well I always say you can never have too many bathrooms so I'm not going to argue that point and it's just my husband and I he enjoy it okay okay well um what you're going to have to we're we're not going to be able to continue this for you because we can't continue something that's not complete so okay move come what I would suggest is that you request a withdrawal without prejudice which I think will grant you which means you can come back anytime and go back and uh redo your permit application your petition and resubmit it can can I please ask some questions before we get to that decision I try to write down some of your concerns but couple of points and a couple of questions you know the first one is um the the number of cars with within a garage you refer to a zoning bylaw I'm not familiar with a zoning bylaw um it's not there's nothing in section 407 related to how many how many uh cars in the garage um Let me let me find it for youor you just sent that to me where is that I believe it's a it's a note Mr chairman on page 23 of the bylaw page 23 hold on one second footnote number five let's go to the bylaw okay navigating these bylaws can sometimes be a little difficult might be foot note even those of those of us who look in it all the time still Sean I think it's footnote number five you're looking for yeah that's uh footnote number five on Section 203 is it 203 20 202.5 footnote 5 um you need need a special permit for garage space for or storage of more than three vehicles and I can't say how the others on the board feel about that but I would not be in support of that proposal right now uh as only having three vehicles in it your one of the garages is 30 feet two of the garages are 30 feet deep the other one's 38 feet deep your average car right now is probably about 8 feet long maybe 10 so it you can certainly get more than three vehicles in those garages so uh you need a special permit for that as well well that's certainly something we can take a look at may maybe making a portion of its storage put a wall up or something like that but I think what we'd like to do is be able to take the import and take a look at how we can change the plans as they submitted and ask for continuance rather than a withdrawal but that well the problem is we can't give you a continuance because you need to amend your petition you can't come back on a continuance with an amended petition because it has to be read vertis well that that well it wasn't um well I I I I think perhaps there's a way to revise the application so it still Falls within the description on the advertisement I know what you're saying about the special permit but I think we would like an opportunity to talk to the building uh department or inspector to get his confirmation that the special permit has lasts I know in my experience in other towns uh the foundation going in and being certified uh in some cases can satisfy the beginning of construction for a special permit I think as we all know special permits expire in two years but um in most instances or a lot of instances it's not completed by the within the two years as long as it's being continued on and I think the applicants have made uh a lot of effort since they've bought it to try to uh change the plans update the plans and they've been active with the uh with the with the permits and in working with the billing department and applying for a septic permit and so forth um the other thing I was going to ask uh you know we did sit down with the billing department and reviewed our application you know for comple this and uh it was never brought up about the affidavits and I'm not sure if it's standard practice to have the affidavits submitted with the application seems to me that that could be something uh that could be part of the conditions um um did you read section 407 sir before you submitted your application yes we did yeah okay I I don't recall seeing that that had to be done okay it and it it specifically I think says uh no permit shall be issued for it until that's done uh building permit doesn't say about the special permit okay well uh if you're going to need first off I think you're going to need a special permit for that garage now if it were to come to a vote tonight I would not vote to support that building that you want to call an Adu okay with the garage is below I'd be a no vote where where ask for continu if you would like I can pull the board right now to see if they feel the same way that you're going to need a special permit for those garages I I think if we had time to to investigate it talk with the building inspector then we can always withdraw afterwards I'm just asking for a continuance so we don't have to start the whole process over again well this this is let let me tell you how this works you go into the building department and you fill fill out an application for a building permit he tells you I can't give it to you because you're violating bylaws you have to come to the board of appeals it doesn't go backwards you go from the building department to us it doesn't go back to him he he doesn't have the final say unless he wants to issue you a building permit I'm I'm talking about just clarification from him um but well I I don't want to be argumentative so I'm just no that's fine yeah well you're before us tonight okay you're asking for an Adu that's what you have before us tonight I don't think you can amend a petition so if you're not if you think you're going to go back and clarify whether you need all this stuff or not let's say that he says you don't then what are you going to come back and ask for the Adu well with that the point would be keeping this permit alive and open in resolving all the issues that came up tonight assuming that somehow you know we can resolve it without requiring modification of the original special permit well right now what we have before us tonight and the reason why I don't I I I don't believe legally we can continue this because I think you have to amend it because I'm a no vote for the Adu for one reason is you don't have a principal structure there and I'm not I'm not going to vote to approve an Adu on a principal structure that this board didn't agree to a special permit for we gave a special permit for a single story Ranch besides besides a special permit aspect for any other project I'm sure you're going to get many projects submitted or you have where a proposed Primary in you know a proposed Adu of being proposed at the same time I would I would guess that anyway so be true so that that would be no different really than what we're asking when you eliminate the special permit you haven't asked for that since sir you don't have a special permit to or a building permit to move forward with the actual construction of the primary so you're the only thing in in front of us is the Adu right now so we don't have anything to base uh it to be an accessory to it's the cart before the horse if they come at the same time that we can understand that we can visualize that and there's a process to it you're not there yet I I'll leave it up to my client Linda I I assume Linda that you want to withdraw without prejudice yes please okay we have a request to allow the petitioner to withdraw without prejudice is there a motion so moved second do I have a second second okay any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I any opposed hearing none the petition is withdrawn without prejudice if you wish to uh come back and see us after it's refiled Are we more than happy to hear from you thank you very much okay thank you good night good night now thank you thank you ma'am okay the next matter up is petition 5152 Michael and Helen cassels doing businesses the in cap card LLC the property is at 4 Summer Street in yarmouthport it's in an R40 zoning District the applicant seeks to modify decision number 4063 dated August 16 2006 and or special permit for 104.3 point2 uh number four subsection four to increase the number of guest rooms the applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for certified site plot plan less than two years old good evening hi hi hi could you identify yourselves for the record please right Michael castles hel castles good evening folks uh could you tell us what you want to do I think I got the gist of what you you want to do but tell us what you want to do um we have a fine iconic building which we've had for 18 years and we bought it as a nine room in um in terrible condition with the promise of not from the town but the way it was sold to us uh returning it to the 13 rooms that it had always always been from the from 1970 I think through to the early 2000s when two roofs failed um one of them was above room 10 and on the third floor was the devastating damage there were two rooms up there all the rooms had connecting bathrooms indeed um they were there in evidence when we bought the property um we've spent 18 years bringing the to an extremely high level inside and outside an enormous expenditure and the crowning Glory or the final hurdle is to reinstate these rooms that it's always had for for 30 40 Years of its life or maybe even longer we couldn't find the the the the records that far back the only thing that has happened really is we realize that but we have to come to you guys and ask for that permission we've already spent 120,000 on the project up front these extra rooms or they're not extra rooms they they were the original rooms so we're really committed financially already these Works will not entail any change to the exterior of the building we have the ex existing parking requirements which we've we've extended in our 18 years to put them all on the commercial side of the property I.E none of our ARB buts um will see these cars or hear these cars they're actually on the side of the old yarmin huge car park that they have um so there's no structural work um it's always had 13 rooms we're asking for 12 total we've already one of them is done uh that was an enormous exp expenditure in itself we all our decisions have been based upon what is good for the property we love K Cod we like the historic side it's a tremendous building which has been neglected we're not restoring it we're bringing it over and Beyond what it's ever looked like inside and outside no expense spared but we do need some return at long last on our investment um I don't know what else I can say um yarmouthport itself has lost six bed and breakfasts in our time totaling in excess of 30 leting rooms we have lots of airbnbs in yarmouthport I'm not sure if everybody realizes that I don't know how many of them are legitimate or not that is a real threat to anybody in our business we need these extra rooms now to to continue at the level we're at um I just oh yeah this year alone we increased the size of the septic system we installed a new system which would handle all the rooms in question um we also have built a balcony tore a wing down rebuilt it raised the roof new windows the list of things goes on and everybody who knows Us in this business thinks we're utterly crazy and I suppose we are but we we really love the property and we think this is the least it deserves and we're here very humbly to ask for your authoriz I ization for your um your agreement to this one one thing I might add there's reference to a decision in 2006 by the then owner decision 463 Mr pry y the reason for this meeting we were the buyers 3,000 mil away and our due diligence had uncovered the fact that This Magnificent property didn't have a license so it did as people learned later on and it was put in the wrong folder so this meeting principally stopped us pulling out of the deal because we thought hey there's something fishy about this it doesn't sound right what's going on and they didn't have permission to to run the in in the new owner's house that had been built anyway long story short we've read the notes over and over on this and this is a guy who was flipping the property who made shortterm decisions in that respect most of which have been ripped out and redone included in this to give you an idea he ran on our third floor that's one below the attic third floor had two rooms when he put the new roof on any normal person would have said hey we'll develop we'll put back these rooms we'll reinstate them that's where the future is but no he took the short route he was installing heating for the floor below and he ran all the duct work across this 1200 square ft of space I've as a foreigner I've never seen that before but holes that people could fall through um that's what we we had to do as well which we didn't even mention oh we did mention the heating system was gas central heating it wasn't broken but in order to develop this floor space and reinstate the rooms we needed to install the a heating system for the floor downstairs so we could pull out these these extensive pieces of duct work we did all that work started in 21 and this they were repl so really we're in a position we've got um plans drawn up we're looking at two rooms King suites with bathrooms attached to each which are a bathroom um we've we've already done the Demolition and sorry oh and it's got second ESS by warrant of our wet sprinkler system throughout the in so everything the building department seem more than happy the he health department now we've done the septic system so really we're we're asking for your understanding to give this building um bring it back to to a level it should be at on that third floor and allow us to recoup some of our enormous outlay and that that's it okay thank you uh I am actually I do have the uh 2006 decision and uh the members that were present that night uh first one was me I was the chairman that night when we approved that so that's how far back I go I'm dating myself um I the history of this property though um as I have reviewed this decision I'm back in the 70s uh it was originally licensed for 13 rooms I I don't exactly remember all the facts but when I read through it it seems that you're right they changed it into Mechanicals by eliminating those rooms they were only in here asking for nine rooms at the time um I have a couple questions for you so um you have PL you have adequate parking for all 13 rooms is that correct yes correct oh it's 12 we're sorry I beg you pardon I think I might have misled you it always had 13 rooms but we're only after 12 so we have adequate parking existing for 12 and they're all on the old yth ins side oh okay so you're looking for 12 you're looking to increase it from 9 to 12 yeah okay and you have adequate parking for all the 12 guest rooms correct correct and the septic system is adequate to handle all those rooms yes it is okay all right um and you say you've undertaken some construction now we've um done the demolition on the third floor because it was dangerous um bit of the ceiling were falling down from the attic above so it's open to the rafters which is the style we want to put back um so that's been done it it it Bears no resemblance to what it looked like even a year ago okay but if you do complete it you have adequate uh egress and Ingress and you you said you have a sprinkler system in there now as well yes okay all right uh that that's all I have uh why don't we go to the board for see if the board members have any questions Anthony do you have any questions for the petitioner I don't um I'm not within the technical definition of a butter but I'm around the corner from you guys so I'm very familiar with your property and everything that you do uh so I I don't have any questions I'm happy for you to have uh the concept that you're bringing forward and continue the good work you've been doing thank you okay all right John do you have any questions for the petitioner or comments yeah I I have a quick question it is a beautiful property um I was there the other day um the concern I have is the parking uh you did say you have adequate parking here's my concern when you're driving around on the old Yarmouth inside there are 10 spots with the tree and all that sort right and then you said you've got additional parking on the driveway is that the the turn around in front of the yeah you know the owner's house as you were if you're facing the owner's house and the in sort of behind you there are well it's marked for two spaces at the moment but we've already seen we can make three spaces there that would be 13 spaces that would be one for us okay so then where do you do you have employees yeah where would they Park well what was the question do we have employees yes but yeah on any given day it's not a problem um if we're full in the peak season we have a good relationship with the old yarmin they put cars in our car park for dos in the winter we put cars the girls just drive round and walk through and walk through and there's a gap in the Hedge in the and they just walk straight through up the kitchen steps and they're here but it in actual fact it we we would like to be 100% full day after day we were probably six seven years ago and um it's never a problem um it's it's I would move my car and put it in the old Yarmouth inside or put it outside our house rather than they don't have a space to park but it it doesn't happen and they come in the girls come in and half the guests have already gone out to an island and they've gone out for the day so there it just seems to roll around fine yeah yeah and so but again that circular in front of the building yeah way you would drop or you you're going to use that as additional parking no no no no no absolutely not okay one of the things we did in conjunction with the fire department we got here that's my question we said everywhere I've been you need access with your fire equipment so we've made it a fire Services Lane as you pull in one of our driveways there's parking for 20 minutes to check in we're not we don't enforce it to 20 minutes but people then move on and park their cars no one is allowed except for unloading their luggage no one is allowed in that semicircular nor all the the the straight drive all the straight drives all around the back our idea throughout has been Emergency Services first we put big sign up where the hydrant is everything but also get our traffic away from the neighbors most of whom we've apologized when we first took the in all sorts of things have been going on but we've deliberately all organized this if anybody if they're disabled and the partner can't drive the car and pick up the disabled person we do relax our standards and say as you pull in the D not in front of the Inn never in front of the Inn they can park there it happens once a year of that so okay yeah I'm not opposed to the additional rooms I think it's great thank you the parking does concern me though but that's all I have for right now thank you Sean okay thank you John Jay um aside from the parking I just was curious what are you going to do about the all the duck work and things like that that are currently running on the floor I mean how are you going to it's all been pulled out but two what are you replacing it with two years ago it was pulled out but only after we'd had um split heat pumps it it was for the floor below yeah but the furnace was on the third floor and all the duck work it's it was horrendous before we could do anything there that was the first step so in 21 I think we had um heat pumps installed individually controlled for those top floor rooms for the second floor rooms so having that wasn't you're using the wall units basically yeah and and having had a a winter we weren't sure it was going to be enough um we tested it atus 35° windchill and it was heating at 70° and once we were happy with that we said right so and so another question was the guest room that currently is pretty much done is on the second floor the number 10 number 10 yeah and you'd be putting two additional Suites on the third floor yes yes and insulation in attic would be above that absolutely yeah it would look fantastic it is a beautiful property and just it'd be nice to maintain it and keep it going and it's part of Cape so um I really don't have any problems but it it looks looks like thank you for your generous sentiments thank you all okay dick do you have any questions I don't think I have any questions just I'd like to reiterate that done a beautiful job with the property and it's got ton of land if you ever had to add more parking spaces one way or another and uh I understand the reasoning behind wanting to have 12 rooms as opposed to nine if these things these bnbs to be successful they have to have a certain amount number of rooms to really make it work and it's a beautiful building and having 12 rooms there on three and something Acres I guess it is uh I don't find it all uh upsetting to me and I would be in favor of the application thank you okay thank you than you all right is there anybody in our audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition if so please come to the microphone no one coming if is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this petition if so please come to the microphone no in coming okay um we're going to close the uh hearing to the public begin board discussion is is anybody uh prepared to begin a discussion or to make a motion uh I I'm I'm comfortable with making a motion and I I do think that I I don't know if we have to include it but obviously the conditions as long as the health department and the building department are good with what they propose and get the right permits um I'm comfortable with making a motion to I guess it's modify the current special permit is that what we're trying to do yeah we can mod we can modify the uh the existing special permit to increase the number of rooms from 9 to 12 so it would be modify the motion modify the current special permit to move from 9 to 12 unit 12 uh rooms uh based and conditioned upon um any Board of Health approval as well as uh the building department approval yes and that's relative to building codes and border of Health regulations correct but you're going to have to comply with those anyway if you may you may not have to have but if you understood okay um do we have a second to the motion second and also add that uh yeah we would be giving a waiver from the requirement for certified C plot plan less than yes okay thank you dick yes we will be given a waiver for the requirement of a certified plot plan that's less than two or more than two years old okay um all right so we have a motion we have a second any discussion on the motion I agree with the rest of the board I think it's a reasonable request I do think they meet the criteria of the bylaw I don't see any undue nuisance Hazard or congestion in uh granting it I think the petitioners demonstrated that I think the history of the building supports those number of rooms and so for those reasons I do think they have met the criteria um all those in favor please signy by saying I I any opposed hearing none that carries uh five in favor none against unanimously uh now folks what happens now is after the decision is drafted it will be filed with the town clerk 20 days must elapse that's a technical appeal period I don't think anybody's going to appeal it after that you just contact Dolores uh well she'll contact you because it'll may take a few few days to get the decision written and then filed with the clerk's office she'll contact you you take the special permit over to the registry of deeds and record it and just bring a copy back for our records do you have any questions how long how long does it last I mean is it that's it then it runs with the land forever and ever forever and ever all right okay so yeah that's good no further question yeah until you might change it or if it yeah well for for purposes of what you guys are going to do it runs for the land runs with the land and it would apply to subsequent purchasers as well thank you very much thank you okay we wish you the best of luck and you got a great building over there we all love it thank you okay have a nice night now you too thank you time everybody we are going to go out of order one more time here here because we have one that's a continued I think it's just going to take a second and I don't want to keep them waiting uh is petition 5148 here sandall Customs uh LLC for 90 C youf he's coming up now okay good evening good evening uh so we had tonight 9C you have my name is Walter Warren I'm the owner of co-owner of sandola Customs uh I'm on I'm here on behalf of an Ward and her husband who owned the property um the property um most of you know the history on it is years ago it was well we've done excuse me sir we've done all the history on the property this is a continued matter weren't you going to bring us in a certified plot plan or something yeah yeah I have that you have an 11 by 17 scale and I have a full we do have it Sean I don't know if you've got it y I got it in my packet as well okay so I think that's all we really needed so we just knew where everything was going to be correct I think we've already decided that uh we were in favor of your petition um but I will uh is there anything you uh I don't think there's anything you need to add I'm going to go to the board and ask were there any other questions that the board had of the petitioner or are we uh good to go with the plot plan as submitted anybody Sean yeah I have one one little question uh the uh one of the earlier plans that children the space which is actually septic systems uh as you know open space or whatever and you know this is encroaching on that uh I don't really have any real problem with it I know there's been relief given to at least one of the cottage here uh but I don't know if anybody else is concerned about them encroaching on what was considered the open space area of the uh condominium uh well they would uh that would be something for the homeowners association I think correct probably yeah um and if near a septic system they have to be so many feet away um or they may need to get a variance from the Board of Health if they're within I think it's 15t shows 21 feet 21 are they're 21 away from the septic yeah what it shows no then they're good they they're far enough away I can live with it okay anyone else no everybody satisfied good okay uh is anybody prepared to make a motion we we don't need to do public or anything we've already done that as yeah okay we'll do it again is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition please come to the microphone if there's anyone there that's wishes to speak in support of it we really don't need to hear from you we probably went over that last time and the board seems to be in support of the petition but I guess we're we're good nobody came up okay I'll be glad to make a motion uh to approve the special permit as submitted okay do we have a second a second any discussion on the motion uh just that maybe we should also add there that the uh addition is limited to excuse me being a uh screen porch and it should not be converted to year round living space we'll put that in that's a good condition we've done that with everybody else I I think that may have been in their presentation but let's put that as a condition it's a three well we'll call it we won't even say three season we'll say it's a screen in porch yeah um and it's not to be for any year round use and no heat sounds good everybody comfortable with that yes okay any other conditions anybody feels that we need I don't think so but hearing none okay so we have a motion do we have a second yes John second John second John y yes okay so I have a motion made by J second by John with the condition that um it be screened in and no heat um and with the certified uh plot plan will be submitted into the record uh all those in favor please signify by saying I I I any opposed hearing none that passes unanimously sir um as you may have heard on the last one uh when a decision is written it'll be filed with the town clerk 20 days must elapse that is a technical appeal period in case somebody wants to appeal a decision probably not going to happen here um after that Dolores will contact you let you know that your special permit is ready you need to come get that take it over to the registry of deeds record it and bring a copy of it back to us with the stamp on it that it's been recorded for our records you have any further questions I I have one question um on the plan U it calls for easy Breeze system and what that is that's a that's a screen system but it has plastic panels that can go up and down so that if it's raining and the wind is blowing the panels can go up okay it's yeah I I think I think that's fine is everybody good with that yeah okay I just want to make sure okay no no no thank you for bringing that to our attention now that that's fine okay we're all we're good for tonight thank you sir and wish you the best on your project have a good day thank you thank you enjoy all right the next matter on our petition is on our agenda is petition number 5153 Arthur n Luke and L carton Luke Carlton Luke excuse me Trustees of the 511 Main Street trust property location at 511e 28 West garmouth it's in a B2 zoning District the applicant seeks a variance from section 303.5 point8 to place a 200 sqt ice bending machine greater than 6 ft from the principal building the applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for a certified site plot plan less than two years old good evening gentlemen could you identify El for the record pleas uh yes good evening for the record my name is Andrew singer I'm an attorney in dennisport here on behalf of the applicant and with me at the table is AJ Luke who is the applicant and in the first row we have David mnich who is the project engineer and David Hawk who is the landscape architect you have um in front of you uh summary of reasoning that I had submitted to you that I will go over we had submitted um there you have a landscape plan you also have a uh Mr mcnv has prepared an a current um site plan it's just not it it was not stamped so we're using the engineer the surveyed stamped plan when when the septic system went in a couple years ago but that is the reason for the request from the waiver we so you do have a a a engineered site plan in front of you um and you also have that plan though uh for the surveyor stamp is is is a little bit older this is um it's an interesting project it's it had I think everyone knows the property Luke's Liquor West yarma through 28 um at the intersection with Springer Lane the applicant had been working with the building department uh since Co actually on a proposed upgrade to the site uh as you know um and I know dick you'll love this it's a nice sea of asphalt in front with no trees um and so they had proposed a conforming site upgrade to the parking to and it was actually thought that this ice machine which was going to actually help block break up that parking have more Landscaping in the front everyone thought it was conforming and it was going to be allowed by right they weren't even going to have to come to you well lo and behold somebody was look this is before I got involved somebody was looking at the zoning bylaw and buried in the sign code don't ask me why but in section 303.5 point8 there was a provision that says ice machines have to be within 6 feet of the principal building and so now you're seeing us this evening before you everything that's on the site plan is permitted by right except the location of the ice machine so the we worked with Mr G and the the the the the changes to the parking lot the safety improvements as you can see removing some of the asphalt putting in some additional Green Space channelizing the drive so when you come in you don't just go all over the place you would actually oneway flow you go into the right circle around to the left from 28 that's all allowed but having this machine there is what needs a variance and the variance is something that you know you don't often see uh however when I was looking at this and I'd like to to take you through the site and we're happy for any questions as well I believe that we meet the variance criteria in this case because of the uh as you know 48 section 10 talks about unique situations with the structures with the land or the structures and in this case we kind of have a bit of both of that when you look at the site plan c201 which is Mr MC nich's plan um we do have the frontages on two streets and the building is on the if you're on Route 28 the building is on the back of the property there is a on the excuse me Springer Lan side there is a driveway that goes down that's how you get to the back of the property there pave driveway um and so you couldn't put right now there are three machines that are seasonally at the property they'd like to remove two of them from there and replace them with the one new machine so you can't there's no way to put it in another Mach you couldn't put this machine on the Springer lane side of the property on the other side of the property the east side of the property if you look at Mr MC's plan you see a hashed a striped hash mark area uh next to the building that's actually a fire lane and it's how they get to the back of the shopping plaza to the east so the ice cream shop that's there and the back of the building uh the rest of that building on the property to the left if you're standing on 28 that's how you get there the that's how Emergency Services the dumpsters are back there um so there's no place you can't put it there within six feet of the building because You' be blocking a fire lane and if you put it in right in front of the building you'd be blocking the entrances so given the positioning of the building on the land given the historical development of the property with these two driveways that go down both sides of the building and have to stay open there really is no way to upgrade the ice machine to this to this modern unit right in front of the building within 6 ft and again I don't know how long that provision has been in the sign code I don't know why it's in the sign code um ideally it doesn't need to be in the sign code at all but it is so we believe there is a hardship based on these unique conditions that I just outlined to you and we believe that the proposal before you and now we'll flip maybe to the landscape plan uh in addition to the site plan um that there will will not be the second and third prongs of the variance test there will not be a substantial detriment to the public good and there will not be a derogation from the intent and purpose of the zoning bylaw and for that as I put in my summary of reasoning I believe there are many reasons to justify that the ice machine itself is going to be completely conforming to all setbacks um there will be no change or increase and intensity of use of the property there will be a significant Improvement to the on-site circulation with this reconfigured parking field that Mr mnich is showing on his site plan there was going to be new Landscaping with new trees and an expanded buffer with less parking in front of the building at the front of the property there is no way you can have parking not in front of the property on this site it's impossible but right now there is zero tree you know zero really vegetation out front you're going to have a significant Improvement and that's shown on the landscape plan and we also gave you some architectural renderings that kind of show what it's anticipated to be looking like um two of the parking Spa as I mentioned two of the parking spaces uh oh well there'll be some parking lost at the front of the right now the site is overp parked um there are you don't hear me say that very often but um the parking demand is 28 spaces there are 49 on the site today uh what Mr Luke is proposing is to bring it down to 32 so it's going to be conforming but by reducing those um 17 parking spaces you're going to be able to have an increased buffer in the front you're going to be able to remove two spaces to improve the fire lane to get to behind the ice cream shop next door in the other Plaza right now it gets a little tight there with cars so by pulling these back uh you'll actually be improving the access to the uh uh around the building for emergencies um the the ice machine's going in an area that's asphalt today and so you know there's no change there but but some of the asphalt around it's being ripped up as you can see on the landscape plan for additional plantings there is going to be no negative impact on the town's water supply or drainage groundwater is not going to be harmed building coverage on the site is already pre-existing non-conforming and it's going to be it's going to go up but only by 0.4% so it's 212 Square ft so it's going up very nominally by the same token pre-existing non-conforming site coverage is being reduced from 81.8% down to 77.9 so there's actually going to be I think a better tradeoff is you're going to have more green space on the site there's going to be no noise litter odor or other sources of potential nuisance or inconvenience Mr Luke has one of these machines at his Dennis store if you've ever been by there and and he's been there for many years and and so that he he knows about the operations of it and is not something that causes concern or issues utilities are going to be fine there's no impact to those and we submit that a o ing the replacement ice machine as shown on the plans will not only not negatively impact the neighbor neighboring Properties or the traveling public but it's going to the contrary to be an improvement because of the one you're having what's in effect almost like a liner building out front which will shield some of the parking but you're also going to have the improved less asphalt and improved Landscaping there um for those reasons uh we're respectfully asking you for a variance to allow an ice machine that's further than than 6 feet from the building we're asking for that waiver uh from the for the septic plan which is stamped by the surveyor so you can accept the that plus the engineered site plan that Mr MC neich did and Mr Hawk's landscape plan if you have questions on any of this uh we'd be happy to answer them and we thank you for your time thank you thank you I I've got a couple of questions before I I hand it over to the others why couldn't you put this in the front left corner of the building right now where those horizontal lines are because those horizontal lines are that and I have a picture it won't help you Sean because I can't show it on TV but that is where you get to that's the only access to the dumpsters and the um fire lane to get you behind not only Mr Luke's building but also the ice cream shop and the shopping plaza to the east if you put the machine there you're blocking that off and so you're shutting down a fire there'll be no way to access have a fire lane in their own property don't have a firee in their owner and so you're suggesting that to access this ice machine people are going to drive in and take a right and drive around the whole parking lot and come around and come right back out to 28 to get their ice is that what you're suggesting yeah access well that yes yes sir Mr Luke I'm sorry um I'm sorry I don't have the English accent the gentleman before had because he was a lot more fun to listen to um but absolutely people will either you know some people might be just coming in for ice if they're earlier in the morning but most people will just be walking from their car into the store um like a normal uh customer but also taking a walk over to the ice machine and then just you know going back to their car so it's it's not just we're not attracting a new customer here we're just putting a unit on on the property that's going to um Supply ice much more uh efficiently than right now well I I I I'll be right up front the the the problem that I have is you're the busiest liquor store in town I think anybody who's familiar with it you do a great business there and that we're very happy that you do eliminating parking spaces I think is the last thing you want to do because I've seen that place in the middle of the summer and sometimes it's very hard to get in and out of there I don't really see it being realistic that someone's going to not drive in and take an immediate left I would suggest that everybody's going to do that which is going to cause a traffic tie up for people that are accessing your liquor store um this doesn't really appear to me to be any type of a vending machine in the true sense of the word to me I interpret this as a standalone business so um and I am not really finding that you're meeting the criteria of a variance I don't see a hardship here at all and I don't see that it's owing to the criteria that's listed in the variance criteria so uh I I'm having a hard time supporting this but uh I'm going to go to the others for questions and comments uh dick do you have any questions for the petitioners no personally I I don't know from what I've always seen there uh I've never seen the existing parking lot full so I think a reduction of parking spaces and becoming conforming in terms of uh in terms of the layout and and directions and so forth I think is good uh you know building isn't terribly attractive but it's a nice machine so what are you going to do uh I don't have a problem with that I appreciate uh some additional planting being done uh yeah love to see a little bit going all the way down the east side there too where there's pretty much nothing in that in that boundary I know you're putting some closest to the ice machine and that's good uh I don't you know I don't think I have any real problem with it other than a little additional Landscaping upgrading might be appreciated um but I think it's a a good change to what's there now okay Jay I guess I the same thing dick said I think the flow is improved and I'd certainly love to see some some plantings and trees around there would make the place look a lot better I I guess what I'm I'm struggling with is is just the size and location of the ice machine I don't even know if I'd call it an ice machine or an ice Warehouse I'm not sure but it's huge may I may I interrupt at some point I'm sure um and I apologize for interrupting um the the unit holds like 6,000 lbs of ice that's kind of most of the size of it is due to the the storage of it um I'd also add that this location of ours is down $2 million in volume since just uh since like 10 years ago not just the co period i me the only time this lot is really swelling is the 4th of July and the entire Cape is swelling at that point um other than that I wouldn't you know want to put an ice machine out there that's going to limit my parking to reduce my volume at a store sorry people drinking less I guess yes um but uh but that that's just my that's my main concern it's just a big building it's close to the street I would preferred to see it on the side but I understand the concern about the emergency um location so you know balancing out all the I guess the benefits and improvements in the site you know I'm I'm I think I'm okay with it but um certainly would have liked it further back yeah if I if I could add that if it wasn't for the fire department I would prefer it there as well um I suspect if we were to put a fence right up our side of the property which we potentially could do that would just um totally inhibit the fire department from getting around to the other building which has had fires over the years it's a wooden structure um but I would prefer it there um I was kind of It kind of progressed to where it is here so I guess that's all I have um the more planting you can put in the better though I dick on that one okay John I'm see these pictures how are your customers going to know what this thing is is there any signage or how are they going to know there's a nice machine word of mouth it's this machine will be very effective like the one I have in Dennis it's it's it's impressed me it's been the one I've had in Dennis has been there 10 years I never did any advertising people just it's the only device like that on the cape uh there's one in Lama there's one like in Fall River they're all over down south Texas you know in the warmer States um but it's a gadget that uh provides ice inexpensively and it's uh it's a fun vending machine for some people they just enjoy the the process it's a it's kind of a phenomenon the slots a weird phenomenon and this thing will run 247 well it only runs when it's making ice so what I'm saying it be available sir yeah and the access point to it you know if you see on the planes is facing the store so you'd be not facing the street it be on the back bards all around yeah I thought that was a benefit by kind of keeping the the action facing us not facing the road yeah right that of security and then so Sean mentioned that you know your intention is to to come in go around right circle around and then end up at that ice machine correct if you're going just for ice but most people tie it in and somebody driving in there doesn't know where it is they could be driving all over the place looking for this thing right there's no sign there's nothing saying ice here right right okay yeah not sure what kind of signage I'll ever be able to put on it but the color of the wrap obviously will dictate what's going on there but I'm I'm not concerned with people not knowing it's not an ice machine it just it's Word of Mouth it'll it'll you know present itself and it's going to there's going to be when you come in there's going to be a sign on so on the there's going to be a sign between where the right and letter splits it says one way go this way and there's going to be a do not enter sign on the left so so when people come in they are going to Sean's concern as well they're going to be channelized there's going to be signage that says go this way arrows on the there going to be arrows on the asphalt and then you'll have so that's not enough people might not listen but you'll have the sign of do not enter and uh go this way that was my concern people just driving all over the place trying to get to a second building on on the property you know what I mean no it's going to be much better than it is today cuz right now when you walk in or sorry walk in when you drive in you you sort of go in and it's a free-for-all whichever way you're going to go this will be better and with the signage and if you can also see because as you see on Mr mich's plan the the the drive aises to go right and to go left they're wide yeah they're extra wide so it's also going to open up right now the parking space is St come right up so it's actually going to be wider there's going to be more maneuverability plus the signage so we think it's going to be a big Improvement this is an 8-week season for this machine too it's I mean the one I have in Dennis is closed October through May um this is intense for July half August and that's it it's other than that it's really a slow draw okay thank you that's all I have Sean Anthony um I don't have any questions it's it's more of a commentary but I'd give attorney singer another chance at this because I don't think I'm moved yet on how it's a hardship fin financial hardship because people are drinking less doesn't qualify it has to be owing to the actual property uh so I I I don't see how it's related to the soil conditions topography or or this uh land itself so I I'd be curious to see how you respond to that I'd be I'd be happy to um 48 section 10 in in the armouth zoning byw mimics the state statute says that the hardship has to be based on the soil condition shape or Topography of the land or the structures thereon and so there is an Express it's written right into the law that you can look at the structures and looking at the Historical development on a piece of property that also justifies um variances um one of the biggest cases has been was a long long time ago was a church I think it was in Wham you know that that was being proposed to be used for something other than a church because it was just no longer religious and it needed a variance and the variance was upheld by the court on the fact that um the structure uh couldn't otherwise be reasonably used and and in the variances that I've done in whichever town it's been um that have been related to a structure CU sometimes it's land you know sometimes it's the shape or the soil you have Wetland soils or whatever which we don't have here um but when it's been to the structure it is what the what the literature says is is it can something not be um reasonably utilized for something for a building if you're reusing a building can not something not be reasonably reutilized for a purpose that's otherwise allowed in this case I see it as being analogous which is that the ice machine itself this unit if there wasn't a fire lane on the if there was more like in Dennis the Dennis property is actually looks like this but on one street only so you got the building and then the ice machine's right next to the building so there's plenty of room it's it's it's not near any setbacks it's you know it's it's it fits here we have the the building where it is the two frontages and most particularly it's the fire lanes and the drive you know on both sides of the building as as AJ we've said you know there's no real way to put it next to the building not practically you you know without shutting down the fire lane and and I drove through that fire lane this morning and um and when I went back there there's three dumpsters it goes to a dirt it's a gravel drive that goes around not only the back of the ice cream shop but also it appears to go all the way back down the large building that's um over there as well and so you can't really you don't want to shut that off you know it is it's it's acting as an easement for fire safety access I think when you look at all of those I I do think they meet the this nature of a hardship it's not a financial hardship but the but the 4810 is looking at a substantial Financial or practical hardship and in this case I think there was a substantial practical hardship because of all the reasons that I just said it is just a very unique site with a it's been developed I don't know how old that building is but it's been there for many many decades 1973 73 so it's it's been there for more than half a century and you multiple curb Cuts there are two out in Springer Lane although one in the back I think is just for his deliveries and you know the uses the customers I did when I was there I saw people come in off both both driveways one off Springer and and off 28 so uh that is where I see the hardship that it's a substantial practical hardship based on the conditions right around the building you know which is where this ice machine would otherwise have to go wait I'll wait till where see if there's any comments from the public yeah Andrew um again how come you can't put that up if you're looking at the front of the building and I said those horizontal spots that square right there you say you need access how come you can't just eliminate those spaces just to the left of those and put it up in right there it's right here right here um well the part of the reason for I mean could you physically put it there I assume you could but Sean one of the concerns is and and it's it shows in the pictures I took but that area right where you said so those three spots that you talked about Sean that is where the ice cream store puts out their picnic tables there there's some asphalt and there's some crushed stone and so if you let me let me let me correct you okay because I want to make sure your representations are correct please that's not what they put there that's not with I'm talking about eliminating the parking spaces which you're doing right now oh no I'm talking on their side of the property line I'm talking on their side of the propert no there's no egress between that parking lot and Luke's parking lot because they have that shut off yeah only in the summer it's open right now it's open right now okay because it's shut well only open during the summer so yeah oh and I didn't mean that they were having tables on Mr Luke's property they're absolutely not they don't have any they don't have any cables on Mr Luke's property no no no no no no what I meant is the ice machine would be facing them I mean you'd be sitting at the picnic table staring at the ice machine that's what I was trying to why is that why is that Mr Luke's concern I'm not opposed to the ice machine being over there either so why don't we put it over there and then we don't have to have all of this traffic going all over the place and I mean let's face it the amount of traffic that comes in and out of his driveway when you take into consideration the driveway across the street with the water park that's the busiest section of Route 28 in Yarmouth right there that in that stretch of and you're you're well aware of that too Andrew because you represent the people across the street that's very busy right there you have another place to put it up there and quite frankly you might even be able to almost qualify by you you'd only have it 10 ft away from the building instead of well it it would be 28 yeah well it would not it would not even be 10 it would be more than that given that fire lane shot but to your point would it be a lot closer to the building absolutely would we be asking for the same legal relief yes because it would be a variance to have an ice machine more than six feet from the building as I mean could the ice machine go there or go further back I guess the answer is yes we just have to make sure we keep the fire lane open we have to make sure me seems more of a to keep this a better place keep so you so just Sean to make sure get Clos theer line one that is that is the property lineage Sean just to make sure just so you want I want to make sure we're on the same page you're if you're looking at Mr MC nich's plan and you see the hash marks that you said right that hashed area and then there are four parking spaces and then there's a new um traffic a new landscape Island that Mr Luke was proposing okay just eliminate the first three spots well you couldn't you have to keep the first spot next to the hash area cuz you need that for swing of the fire truck you could in theory put it in the next three okay you know um so the landscape Island plus the two to the left but it's in the driver not in well you couldn't put it in there okay not to meet the oh yeah so what Mr mcev is tell me it can't be right at the edge of the parking because it has to meet the setback right um you still have to meet setbacks no matter what you do it would then stick out a little bit into the the traffic it would it would stick out a little bit into the traffic aisle correct um or behind me they're telling me Shan to stick out a lot into the traffic aisle because you you do have to be conforming do you see where the ice machine is proposed now you see how far from I I I see exactly what you're doing here my biggest problem is you you're you're going to have there's going to be congestion here aside from the fact I listen to your variant's explanation and I quite frankly as a matter of law don't agree with it but that's I'm trying to make something work here yeah um I just have a problem with this is taken up a lot of room okay maybe it only goes for the summertime or how many weeks that Mr Luc is going to use it but you're going to turn what is already a very busy parking lot into a much busier parking lot and I really don't see anybody coming in and you're telling me you're going to put do not enter signs up there I don't see those on any of your plans as a matter of fact another question I have is is this going to be is this building going to look as represented on these plans with the gray and the blue or are we wrapping it as we we just talked about in something else no this is this would sorry this would remain white and blue col schemes okay and Sean just just so you know on the site plan there is is the keep right sign is called out and we there will also be a do not enter sign that it's not called out but the keep right sign is on the site plan and the landscape plan and and so because you got an ice machine here you're telling everybody that pulls in a Luke's parking lot that they have to take a right now instead of coming into that whole other left-and section of the parking lot that is correct and you don't think that's going to cause any congestion we think it's actually G to be we think it's gonna be I've been going I've been going into Luke's for 25 years I I'm very I think anybody who shops over there and he does a great business in the summertime we're glad to have him he's a longtime businessman of the town okay but I'm just trying to be realistic here yeah I think this is going to cause congestion if if you look at if you look at the the the septic plan with with the curb which shows the curb cut what coming in right now when you come into that curb cut you're immediately faced with two rows of Park there's a double barrel parking spaces that right right in your face and you either have to take a sharp right or a sharp left and then a sharp left and a sharp right you know because you have to get around the parking spaces this actually opens it up because now when you come in you're going to be flowing with arrows and with a wider space right into that drive around whereas today if there are car is parked near the front there's more congestion because the parking is so close to the street Andrew I've d in that place uh I know 50 times a year okay I know exactly how that parking lot works okay I I you're not going to convince me I see congestion there and well that might that might just I'm not I'm not seeing a hardship here okay and I that explanation about the structure is while it sounded good um that's not my interpretation of the bi of the uh of the law regarding uh variant but I I hear what you're saying so so what you're saying is there's no other alternative place in that whole place that you can put that ice machine other than that spot right there this is what we're saying is this is the best place because it is the we believe it keep it's the it allows the most significant Improvement to circulation on the site if you put it back closer to that fire lane as we were discussing you're going to be losing part of the you're going to be losing part of the drive aisle and then actually making it worse um without unless we came for a dimensional variance asking you to let us put it too close to a setback which we're trying not to do but I guess we could um I mean you're you're asking for variances so I mean you can if if you're asking for one you can ask for another I mean the variance criteria is much different than the special perit criteria as you understand no absolutely I guess another benefit of this as we see it is you're you're actually improving the the way it's shown on the plan now forget the variance for a moment from a site Aesthetics point of view this will be the the best way to improve the Aesthetics and the landscaping and the visual appearance of the property if you put the ice machine further back then you you got to keep the parking that's out front out front so you're going to keep more parking and less vegetation out by the street in exchange for putting the machine further back on the property and I and I just I think knowing how this board and as you noted I've been before you on a number of projects up and down 28 here you're always looking to improve the Aesthetics along 28 and you're looking at that and across the street Sean there was a project that you that that you were not in support of because you wanted a structure closer to the street to hide parking and and in this case respectfully what what this is showing is exactly that to the extent you can on this lot yeah I'm not I I I I appreciate the comment but I'm not sure that I'm buying into that yeah anything else you'd like to add um I guess I'd love to know if Mr Pano agrees with my argument now because I can count as well as you can asking for a are you asking for a poll I guess I'm well I you probably go to the public first but but at some point yes I'd be asking for a poll all right why don't we go to the public then we'll come back and we'll talk to the board okay thank you is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition if so please come to the microphone hearing none is there anyone in opposition to this petition if so please come to the microphone no one's coming seeing none okay uh we are going to then close it to the public we will leave it open for the petitioner if uh we the petitioner needs some input we need from him um so why don't we just cut to the chase here um you need four out of five I'm a no vote we're going to pull the board I think three of them well I don't know let's pull the board dick yes Jay yes John yes Anthony no no okay you got three in favor two against as you know Andrew that fails um no you wish us to take a uh a vote on this or would you like to uh withdraw this petition without prejudice and maybe maybe come back with another idea well can I have one second just to talk to Mr Luke I'll be right back okay um H have a have a option C Mr IO the question would you would the board be willing to continue us so that we could look at potentially some other options yes well I i' certainly be in favor of that continuance then would be more helpful than a withdrawal okay how does the board feel about that uh well there's three of you in favor of this petition Anthony would you be in favor of allowing them to continue this to try to find another alternative that we could consider yes of course and so would I so if that's which you how much time would you need to to put something together what's the first date that we probably can fit it oh no I know yeah Dolores what are we looking at for dates well the next available date is February 27th but I want to make sure the petitioner can be ready by then yeah yeah so so if we continue to February 27th you'd want everything but what a week ahead of time at least two weeks right I mean two weeks all right so you have to that have to be Dolores uh does that we don't have to do any do we have to do any advertising on that it depends if they're they're amending the replication then we would need to reti and ren notify the abutters well I'm I'm not sure it so I guess the only reason we would be revising the application would be if we had to add a set let's say let's say it was going to be too close to a setback right we'd have to add that because the machine if it's more than six feet from the building that's the same relief no no you doesn't matter where it is and I have to look at the legal ad but since it was advertised for a Varan I don't know that that would have to be legally advertised but if it did we would still we could do that during the continuance period you I could give you an application or I could I could amend the application you could Ren notify it and then you just add that in when you review it again that's not a legal problem yeah the deadline for that would be noon on February 5th that's why I want to make sure that okay okay all right do that okay so you're changing it you're changing it whether you call it modification or revising it's the same thing we need to let people know okay so if well if it's if we just moving where the machine's going I don't think you need to read advertise to the abutters I don't think so um but but because it's still the same relief the same legal ad and they always can come in and look at the plans I think it's only if we add a new form of relief you know setback set you know side setback that would have to be read advertised I would agree with you so all right so what you're saying is if we're doing that you need it by two four or five so you can read advertise but if we're not making any changes you would need it by the 13 right okay we we can do that and so that that would be to the what the 20 27th February 27th Mr chairman 27th okay why yeah why don't we do that I I I I think I may tend to agree with you on that Andrew that we probably don't have to I'll let you and Dolores work that out but um yeah we don't have to answer that tonight you're still looking you're still looking for the same relief it's going to be more than 6 ft from the building oh absolutely it's going to be more than 6 feet the only question is is if an alternative would push it too close to a prop a side property line then we might need more relief but you might need they might need setback relief too so maybe you do need to Rea let's let's make sure that's an if and I but we don't know that that's going to be the case it may not be the case okay but we'll let you we'll I'll I'll coordinate with Dolores and let her know yeah because if you just sh if you just slide it backwards now Sean it's going to stick out into that that lane of traffic yeah you can't just yeah without without moving it closer to the property line which still might be conforming because it's a side property line I don't have them I have to we have to check the measurements yeah okay so um do we have a motion to continue until February 27 now that's what it is still moved we have a second second all those in favor please signify by saying I I okay we'll see you on the 27 thank you gentlemen thank you very much thank you very much Mr singer I need you to okay and can you sign an extension on that Andrew I will Dolores has already asked me to I know she she makes sure we don't forget those things Mr chairman can I request a quick five minute break please yes we're going to uh we're going to go into recess for 5 minutes and we'll come right [Applause] back because the buffer only um and building set back this is considered a building is this a b it's a B2 has that Chang it's 20 no side 25 but if there's two two between two commercial facilities does that matter B2 B2 yeah and they were proposing was a lot less yeah you don't have it now the building the building itself is closer doesn't say none of the plans say how far the building is off the line but it certainly it's probably it could be 20 yeah it might be 20 actually well maybe not because here's the building we're talking about just about the building itself that's 20 right I thought this was less but there was something that showed it yeah 26 to the actual probably way you could put it it's too close to this so they have if they move it five feet in and we're going to lose some of that because this this I'm sure this pad has to stay the same size we'll see big ice machine that's a big ice ma okay everybody back yes okay why don't we call the last petition let me find my agenda uh petition number 5154 Gade masary and Landscaping property location one wind sweep path yport it's and our 40 zoning district and the applicant seeks a variance from Section 203.000 2035 for side setback relief to construct a 14x 26 in ground pool Mr chairman we have someone in the room and someone on the zoom okay uh the person at the table could you identify is please yes good evening my name is V Saran okay and are you the owner of the property sir yes sir you are okay uh could you tell us uh what you want to do here we wanted to put a um you know a small swimming pool there uh as mentioned in the uh plan uh for the fames use basically okay all right and you're seeking a variance for this yes we're seeking a variance since the uh swimming pool design uh is uh less than 20 uh feet that's designated uh uh setback from the uh neighbors's property is that the rear setback it's the rear setback yes that's um hold on one second here I think your side setback actually are you on a corner lot yeah correct corner lot yeah okay on a corner lot you have two sides and two fronts you don't have a but it it is technically it looks like your rear prop looks like the rear of the building sort of for technically speaking yep same either way all right and so the pool itself is going to be 14 1/2 ft from the sideline setback uh yes sir and and how big is the uh apron the patio that goes around it I don't have the correct measurements in front of me although it should show it on the side plan or the uh drawings doesn't show the it doesn't show so it basically goes from the where the uh uh back of the house where where the the uh the room finishes it starts right at the uh Bas uh the steps it looks like it's about almost half of the distance between the sideline and the pool very likely yes it's about four feet four feet four feet four feet after the PO envelope correct okay on the side plan it looks bigger yeah yeah and six feet from the house 14 and half ft from there yeah well we can we can always limit that if we intend to if we're inclined to support it um the it it looks to me by what you're doing with the pool that the when you come out of the house the right side as you're looking out of the back of the house that's where you're going to have your lounge chairs and your table set up so that's where you need a larger area correct exactly yes exactly okay and the other one is really just to walk around the pool so you can climb in and climb out exact yes basically okay okay and the same on the other side all right um I don't have any other questions why don't we go to the board Anthony do you have any questions for the petitioner I don't the request is straightforward I I'm I am interested in hearing from the neighbors who I think are here okay all right uh John do you have any questions no uh we cleared that up with the apron the wood to the apron how close you're going to actually be to the lot line um purp of discussion and um if we were inclined to Grant some relief here um he's 142 fet from the actual pool if he needs another say three to four say four feet around the back about 10et yeah so you're probably you're looking at 10t off the lot line yeah okay 10 feet off the lot line and I believe in an hour 40 if I'm not mistaken you need 20 y so we seeking 10 fet of relief okay I don't have anything else Jay um I I know the property and it it's it's this is a big it's already been a big extension of what was there and it's a small lot um and I I know how close it is to the the neighbors so I'm I'm concerned about that um you know it's close to the house too so I have some concerns certainly I think it's too the the I would be very uncomfortable with the the uh the side the patio part of the the pool at all and the apron there I'm not real I'm not real comfortable with with uh the size of it where it's located so but I'll wait to hear okay all right dick yeah I don't find anything too bad about it but if it could be moved more into the patio area and uh patio I think it could extend on top of the septic system if I'm not not mistaken uh such that it would get it a little further from the lot line that would be a good saying okay um sir that that septic system is represented as existing correct yes uh it's it's a very large septic system and we looked uh we were thinking to put it on the other side there were certain uh um I shouldn't say restrictions but uh challenges uh as far as uh having either to relocate the septic and it's very wide leeching field field which was kind of a uh uh big big problem and besides the uh also we were concerned that uh the sun would not uh basically reflect right on on that part of the yard during the you know useful times of the pool and if I may we could do as well is just not have have the extra patio around the pool we could literally finish the pool on the copin itself and then attach with the grass in there actually we I was if I may we were're not planning to put an extra patio uh towards the neighbor's property that's there there's nothing uh in the pl to put an extra patio shows shows it on the plan it shows it but uh it's probably drawn like that but it's not our intention to put yeah because we have enough Pao front of the house patio area so uh I probably would uh be planting that area with uh grass or you know some green shrubs well let me ask you this question uh how big is that patio is that patio already constructed it is construction sir yes and and what are the dimensions of the patio itself I'm not sure if uh not 100% with with the measurements right in front of me but I would say it's probably uh 16 ft by 20 something I would say 24 20 something yeah yeah yeah that's that looks about that sounds about right I did measure back then but I don't have those measurements right in front of me and we kind of put the located the pool I mean right after that just uh yeah right off the Cent even with the edge of the house the garage correct um are you well Sean I'm just curious I'm just curious as far as between the two yards it shows a stockade fence is there going to be any Greenery too or is it just going to be a stockade fence the fence is already there it's existing but we got we're to put all Greenery all around the fence in front of the fence and yes okay is there a certain height you're trying to put there probably uh probably like those tall grasses four foot 5 foot so nothing goes above we're not planning unless it's needed if for privacy then we can do it but I don't think there's a need for it grasses won't get there I also don't I'm I'm not planning also to obstruct uh the neighbors's uh view view and so there's no way that you could have put that septic system in the front yard uh was existing yeah there was exting system yeah it yeah it's it's going to be very difficult and very costly actually this this house was completely redone in the last year too Sean you're and a half yeah I have it up in front of me actually on my computer yeah I mean it was a it was a sing I think a one one story before it was one story house we were very in a very U bad shape yeah so um we we try to uh it's a much larger garage and much taller much larger house we have a bigger family so it's nice yeah no I I I see what you're what you did here and how far are you away well let's talk about that how far are you actually away from oh I see where you're going to go with this right here um like if you look at the pictures so the the pool should finish at 14 and A2 foot from the fence uh setback basically all right well okay um well do we have people in our audience that want to be heard or I think we have some letters correct uh we also have some folks in the audience Mr chairman who I think also wrote a letter so well I'm not going to I'm not going to read their letter and hear from both of them so they can either do they want to talk or do they want to uh would you I tell you what they'd like to I'll do whatever they want to do I can read their letter into the record they'd like to speak Sean okay all right well why don't we hear from the uh from The Neighbors so yep um sir if you'd like to come up and speak I presume you're here to speak in opposition because I don't have any letters of support that's right uh could you identify yourself for the record please Sir Thomas Manning to Shell Drive the uh the neighbor right on the sideline in question and would you be the person who's just on the other side of the fence from where the be the one most impacted by it yes okay okay all right go ahead sir please tell us your thoughts well I've been there 31 years and I've seen the house sold six times um it is a case of it it gets used as rental it's had many other uses it's a tied old place it started out at 1468 Square ft according to the town's plans it's grown to a 20 3776 ft home the garage is doubled in size pushed another full Bay towards the sideline and the the deck is definitely more than 16 feet wide it uh it's absolutely been tripled from what was there before so any ha any kind of existing Hazard that has to come in here has been caused by the growth of what's on the property it's pushed everything close to that line every tree and bit of greenery has been removed all around it there's one Lone Tree still sitting there and I know it's days and numbered I had a little discussion with uh the neighbor a week or two ago and he said it's ugly and it's time to go so uh it is going to get pretty cleared I'm not sure that I uh I'm looking forward to any kind of a um opening up of that side the way it's been with a pool right so close to that thing it's going to get down to 10 feet and more the state code I believe requires an apron it doesn't say it can have an edge of a pool right on the lawn it's looking for at least four feet that really should be the edge of what is encroaching on the sideline so it drops it below the 14 ft or so um already the the setback from the septic system has dropped to 12.9 Ft from the required 20 the distance from the structure is down to 6.1 from the required 10 we're talking 40% chops here and then losing probably 50% at least on the sideline the lot is too small to support a pool in that area especially if there's just the fence height between the two of them it is right on the property line virtually at that point um when the home was being built I was very much in favor of the renovation I appeared at the Old Kings Highway and was the only one who showed up and spoke in favor of what was going to happen it has grown with the garage getting pushed back more and the patio much larger there's no way at all that a pool should be located on that sideline especially the type of activity there'll be uh lighting that'll go with it there'll be activity at different times it's just not the area for it it just shouldn't be there it's it's not what the nature of the neighborhood is is the nature of the north side the nature of that particular neighborhood the neighborhood's very desirable that's why they bought there uh everybody's putting a lot into their homes down there it's uh a very nice place to live it's very quiet it's not a pool type neighborhood it's not a resort type uh area um it just really would impact very negatively on that sideline and um I can only say any Hazard that you might think exists there was created it was not pre-existing it was not at all um okay nothing else that's about it I think we' covered it anything you want to say about yes I'm concerned about um the front of their home um is within the flood plane um it's uh also I'm concerned about water table and um where's the water going to go they've taken down all the trees that would absorb any kind of groundwater um privacy uh tall grasses 4T high is not going to uh help me sitting on my patio in the summertime um totally exposed to their windows that are up High um I don't want to see what's going on in their backyard that is only 14 feet from from my patio um I've we've had wonderful quiet neighbors forever 31 years and um it just doesn't lend itself to uh to that I am concerned about groundwater and um the conservation across the street the flood plane and um you have letters from three other neighbors in opposed uh in in in opposition to it so um it doesn't belong there and any hardship that might be ConEd as existing was self-created yeah self-created hardship self-imposed thank you very much Mr Mrs Manning I appreciate that okay Mr chairman Mr chairman we do have uh someone on Zoom Michelle Weston who's raised their hand and there's a Christopher Weston who wrote a letter uh okay they're on the other side well okay let's uh let's let's hear from them good evening my name is Chris Weston I'm the trustee and I represent my father I think he's on so I I will let him talk um as um own homeowners for four decades um and is everyone hear me we hear you but we're going to hear from either you or your father so who wants to speak um I guess I will speak um Dad I don't know if my father's on but I'm going to speak right now um one of the there's a bunch of issues we have um a the size of the home that was put in that's not at question I understand that um we were very concerned about the water table um um while we haven't had major water issues we understand you know there's a reason why we all have C crawl spaces um that's going to displace um the pool is going to displace even more water than the septic as well and um in what in reviewing the plans and discussing with some of my experts that I um pool people I know in the area um you know the additional displacement of the water is is is problematic um you know we we haven't had seen or um I haven't seen any um any environmental impacts to putting a pool in there as far as I know there's only two pools and they in the neighborhood and they're very much higher water table they're they're uh uh more south to or South to our property we're at 11 I'm sorry we're 11 wind swept directly next to the house um we also had some some concerns about the noise and light and um in addition to the septic being less than 20 feet from the pool um and um you know we feel that the the the the lot is just too small to support that um size of a pool it's a large pool it's not a small pool so um oh and I wanted to say thank you Dolores I I I wrote my letter in closing I wrote my letter and she posted it like five minutes later so I was very impressed thank you the best okay well thank you very much sir thank you okay okay um I do have one letter here from Thomas and Gail care they uh online or would they let me to read the letter I don't believe they're online okay well I'm going to read their letter into the uh record I have a letter dated uh December 30th 2024 to the zoning board first let me thank you for taking on this important role for the town and the preservation of this historic community I Serv as well I'm going to move on as an a butter to the petitioner number 5154 at one1 swep path my wife and I are fully opposed to the variance 203.50 to constructed in ground swimming pool here are some issues and facts for you to consider I'm sure distance from the septic system may not be at least 20 feet uh distance from the residence may not meet the required distance of 10 feet it's actually uh the 20 fet on the sideline setback distance from the bound lines may not be sufficient at least 15 they do have to be 20 and R4 I believe R 40 distance from the new protected fencing and apron may be too close to the main a butter on shell Drive Beyond these specific issues we are concerned about additional night lighting and increased sound of noise the water table is at fragile levels and no information is provided as to the environmental impact of on the grounds and neighbors removal of trees so critical to protecting the water table may impact neighbors adversely historic protections are in place for this area and the impact of negating them to install a pool seems to go against long heeld practices and safeguards within the town sincerely Thomas and Gail care there at 20 whipper will Lane that's the extent of the correspondence that I have I believe there's Sean I think there's one more letter from Judith I can't say the last name I think it's will 23 wind we heard from them either of these people and what's her address 23 Windswept 23 wind swep yes and where is 23 wind swept in comparison to this property I think it's the one next to the curs I think well we've heard of three we've heard from three of Butters right now um do you want me to read it or yeah go ahead why don't you read that in ja okay um January 7th 2025 dear yth boning board I received a notice of a meeting a one winds swep path concerning a swimming pool install it is outside of the zoning bylaws and an appeal hearing will be held on January 9th I would like to ask the zoning board members if any of them have visited this site all of windsweep path borders conservation land and the chase garden creek salt marsh many of the lots are also within flood zones I feel that the disruption of land and drainage may have an adverse effect on the neighbors and conservation land de budding on the designs the septic system seems too close to the pool design and electrical if the site is visited you will see that the back exit to the yard may not have appropriate distance to the pool the environmental impact to the neighbors and the land has not been discussed thank you for your time sincerely Judith Bowski thank you Jack all right um is there and to the petitioner is there anything that you would like to add further add uh it's uh quite uh shocking that uh I have so much uh gathered uh probably pre uh uh you know there's a lot of work been done together uh neighbors um attention to this and of opposition to this it looks like uh I'm also shocked because uh when we were constructing we were renovating the house we've been there for 5 years now uh for the past year and a half it's been slowly uh renovated uh and uh almost every single neighbor uh other than maybe one or two uh that I haven't seen around have congratulated us for bringing class quality and Beauty uh back into uh the neighborhood by taking that old shack down and putting a very nice structure and we have a similar structure to the end of our street at on Windswept if you look at we have a similar height structure as a matter of fact we have we end up with two stories right in one story and Mr Manning has two stories right behind us and we've never argued that they they're blocking our our uh our view uh of the neighborhood uh and as far as the trees are concerned uh Mr Manning himself has several times come and asked me to cut some of those trees because they were obstructing his view to the beach and I uh hired a professional to cut those trees down so I can open up the view so he can have more access uh to see the beach uh I was not planning on taking those some of those streets down but I did it because he had asked just for the record oh well I you know sir I I I I don't think I'm hearing from the neighbors that they're opposed to the house that you put there I think they're in support I think they all think that you did a good job over there I think the only concern they have is the pool where it's going to be located and how it may negatively impact them because it's a little bit too close to their their lot lines and we get that a lot okay it's not I don't think it's anything personal to you I think you know maybe if it were reversed you may have the same concerns yourself so I I it's nothing to you personally and it certainly I think they speak in favor of your house and I'm looking at your house right now on my computer and it looks very nice um but they do have that concern in terms of the pool apron um I think Mr Manning is correct I think you're going to have to have a uh an apron around that you're also going to need a fence around that now I know you're talking about putting a power cover on and we've run into this before but we would require a 4 foot fence around any pool absolutely yes I age believe backyard is entire fenced pardon me yeah the back all the backyard is entired fence it's up to well you you you may get away with not putting an actual 4 foot fence up yeah it has I think you're going to need an apron on that so bottom line is is you're going to be about 10 feet from their property line with your pool and and they've got some concerns about it um well I'll tell you what why don't we uh why don't we just go to the board here why don't we let the board have a discussion question and let's see what the members think unless there's anything else you want to add well one thing I would like to say is uh that's six foot away from that corner from that pool uh that is not a grounded Foundation this is just this lab for the garage so there's no uh uh implications I'll say technically we will be 17 18 foot away from that the the main building itself which just looking at the pool tonight I'm sorry we're just looking at where the pool's going to be yes correct yeah and uh uh the other concern someone bring that up was the you know the water drainage and everything we're not we're not really concerned with the water table because we don't have that issue before us that would be more of a Board of Health uh matter yeah I would just I mean pointed out this I mean could be easily you know just do like a a drain in there and just direct all the water convert that to a to a certain point well that that that's that's another another yeah we're we're just here right now looking at uh at your pool we're not going to get into the because we don't have any evidence relative to drainage or lack of drainage correct and uh I and all the stocket fs goes on the on the all the corner of the property and right now it is open between the garage and the and the neighbor uh but of course this after it's done besides the automatic cover ASM certified we still GNA have like the fencing wrapping up this whole backyard will be closed shows it right okay all right well we're going to close it off to uh public comment we're going to go to the board for discussion um who would like to begin a discussion on this matter how about you Jay what do your thought it's been closed to the public um I'm not I'm not comfortable with it being this close to the sideline especially the fact that they're going to need I guess it's four feet um in addition to go around the back of the pool I I just think it's too close and it doesn't it doesn't really give enough enough distance and buffer to to the neighbors so I'm I'm uncomfortable where it is right now all right and Dick what are your thoughts yeah I mean I think it you certainly nice to have a pool I have have one and I missed not having one but uh unfortunately it just boils down to the fact that some sites aren't big enough especially if you got a big house on a relatively small lot uh to try and squeeze a pool in there as well it just ain't going to going to work in this case I think uh under the circumstances so sorry about that okay uh John yeah I'm I'm usually not in favor of a pool so close to the sideline the lot line uh a pool is a place where people are going to congregate uh and and there's going to be noise and perhaps a nuisance to the neighbors especially here where we've had the three AB Butters um in opposition to this project so I'm going to have a hard time supporting this okay H Anthony your thoughts I just Echo the same as everyone else I wouldn't be able to vote for it I don't think it meets the variance in my opinion the variance requirements and uh I'll just chime in as well I I agree with you Anthony I I don't think they do meet the variance criteria I don't think that it's owing to the shape topography or soil conditions uh that may work against them quite frankly uh I I I don't see it as a hardship um when I'm hearing that they added a second garage door and blew out the that side of the house had they not done that they might have been able to put that pool in as a matter of right and they would have been that 20 feet off so it's kind of a tradeoff as I think Mr Manning pointed out it would be a self-imposed hardship I think he is correct in that um so I I do think it is kind close to that lot line um we do have to take the neighbors into consideration as we would if it were in reverse and one of the neighbors were asking for the same type of relief then we would have the same problem based on opposition perhaps from our petitioner tonight should he have a problem with his neighbor putting a pool that was within those setbacks um so I I wouldn't be able to support that as well um so where's Our IT guy I all my cameras just went out there he is okay he's back there we go um so sir um you've heard the board it doesn't appear that there's adequate support for you to get your variance now we could take a vote if you'd like um but I think you're going to fail and I think you're going to fail on a 0 against if you wanted to not have us take a vote because if we vote against you you can't come back for at least two years if you wish to request that you withdraw your petition without prejudice it means you do have the right to come back I don't know that you would be successful if you came back um but that's your option if you would like to do that so we tend to offer that to petitioners the option to withdraw their petition without prejudice so we could either offer you that or we could take a vote if you want us to go forward I I'll withdraw without prejudice you would like to withdraw without prejudice okay well is anybody um prepared to make a motion so the petitioner could withdraw his petition without prejudice yes so moved second we have a second second second is there any discussion on that hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I hearing no no opposition that passes unanimously sir your petition has been withdrawn without prejudice um we're sorry we couldn't help you tonight um and good luck with your house thank you thank you sir okay that concludes the I believe we have some minutes that we have to approve Dolores uh yes Mr chairman yeah I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes from December 12th second second to that yeah second is that John yes okay all those in favor I any other minutes or is that it the other thing is Sean we have a they have a um an article here about organization and and uh of of the board going forward and I I I think I think I just kind of like to make a proposal to maybe table that until we're all in person yes I'd like to do that as well um I think we do have some business that we have to uh discuss um we have some vacancies on the board and we do have to also have to get into uh electing officers as well so uh why don't we table that um for f future discussion perhaps we could talk about that uh at the end of February if that would work for everybody fine with me yeah sure I agree okay all right why don't we do that do we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second second on that one no second everybody want stay here all those in favor yay yes okay we stand a Jour thank you very much everybody thank