##VIDEO ID:jyf1haCfYB0## well good evening everyone this is the regularly constituted uh board of appeals Mr chairman we're not yet on television uh hang on at the right foot notes what the left recording in progress here we go good evening everyone this is the usual and regular meeting of the yoth zoning board of appeals this lovely evening of September 26 as required by General Law chapter 3A sections 8 18 to 25 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the AES of 2021 an act relative to extending certain covid-19 measures adopted during the state of emergency as extended by chapter two of the acts of 2023 the public are able to a attend the meeting either in person or via the alternative Public Access and as you can see two of our members are appearing through that axis known as Zoom okay but that's constitute the fully established board members of the public may watch the meeting live on chapter on channel 18 or to watch and or participate in the meeting hosted in Zoom the meeting notice provides necessary instructions to join the meeting via Zoom please note that audio video and screen sharing functions will be disabled for all attendees you may request to participate by using the raise hand function we will call a a list of a members present and intending to vote uh Sean AO present J Frey present Barbara Murphy uh present dick Martin present and I Steve D young I'm present so now we have a fully established Quorum and we're going to get right to the meeting with the first matter being matter 5129 that petition 5129 of Martin J dual property located at 41 Standish ways West jth Mass that property is located in a b excuse me in an r25 zoning district and our applicant seeks a special permit pursuance to 40 7.5.2 uh sub paragraph three to convert an affordable housing apartment into a rental accessory apartment sir tell us who you are and what your relationship to the petitioner is sure my name is Martin dugall I am the petitioner um a one of the owners of 41 stand way in 2015 I received a special permit to construct an affordable accessory apartment um so that is existing uh and my request today is to convert it to a rental accessory apartment that's pretty succinct see if any board members have any questions of you Miss Murphy um no not any questions at this time Mr Martin let's see so uh the uh the apartment was built back then supposedly as a accessory apartment uh you have have you ever have you been living there in the accessory apartment no in the main house um no my parents parents do okay because I think that's a problem with both what exists now and what you intend to do uh uh both require that the main house be occupied uh the new one at least year round I think both year round uh we're co-owners they're they're on the V co-owners who who is the co-owner myself my father and my mother were all do your father and your mother live there yes there is there primary residence that has not changed okay and they they year round yes that was one of my biggest uh biggest concerns I'm I've been one that's not been thrilled about the uh change of the B to allow uh market rate rentals because essentially what we're doing is allowing every house on a quarter I a lot in town to potentially become a duplex and uh uh not too thrill with that how how big is your lot there roughly half an acre all right that's all I have for now so uh how about you Mr Freer any questions um I'm just just looking at the Martin and sorry uh GM and mm is that your are those that's correct okay you're coming in and out but Gerald and Margaret correct okay yeah it just says GM and mm um all right I don't really have any other questions I think that uh I'm assuming that most of the same requirements that we have today in the new accessory apartment um your red you feel that you covering all of them the big one the big one is the year round residency and do you have how many how many parking spes have for that facility at the house four you do have room for four cars yes plus garage well what I said Plus Plus Garage yeah I don't have any other all right how about uh Mr uh my I go there you have any questions of our petitioner um I do do you have a deed that uh can you furnish this board with a deed that shows that your parents are on the deed oh absolutely yeah you can I'm looking at a de I'm looking at a deed registered at bable on 22213 Margaret m dugall is your mother correct okay so Martin dugall and his mom are on the D that's fine with me that's that's sufficient for me okay um well I think the I I I think the one issue that uh all of us had was whether uh the owner was living there because that's the requirement um and it appears that the owner is uh we did Grant a affordable apartment I believe on this a few years back what 2015 correct they met the requirements and the 407 at the time um I have no other questions Mr chairman thank you thank you I've been on this board too long I see that I was chairman back then so anyway listen uh I I want to Echo Mr Martin the commentary uh we have to apply the law of the land which is the most recent change to these zoning bylaws I'm not a fan of them at all I I think what we're going to do is exactly what we're seeing here a very small lot we're making into two family home and it's the people that are living in the second home or the second dwelling on the unit unfortunately have no vested interest in making sure it's going to be wellmaintained other than that they're renters and you know that's why the accessory Apartments were so wonderful to uh assure that the family member that Liv there would be policing the care of the property but that's all I'm going to say I have no questions and I'm now going to read into the record a few things forgive me just be patient dear members the owner of the property of 33 stand which Way West jth I am the abutter to the property at 41 Standish way excuse me for which Mr dugall seeks a special permit pursuant to 407. 5.2 sub paragraph 3 and of the build the zoning board zoning bylaws uh to convert an affordable accessory apartment into a renters accessory apartment I am opposed to the grant of the special permit first it appears that the petitioner does not satisfy the requirements for issuance of a special permit uh because the property is not the owner's principal residence as set forth in the submission made by the building commission Mar gilla's petition Mar gilla's petitioner resides at 8:30 I got you East Street in Boston the same property has lived at when he bought 41 Standish way in 2013 I also not the phone number entering the hearing application includes a new area code 603 second it is not clear that from the supporting materials whether the accessory apartment has two me of agress is required by sections 43.3 47.3 sub paragraph 4 does it yes it does would you describe it to us please yeah sure uh there is um the principal entrance um is at the front of the house uh stairs the apartment is above a and the second um means of egress is there's a deck on the opposite side of the house um that has a slotting door and stairs from the deck down to below is there anything interrupting their flow from the front door to the apartment above the garage nothing impeding their access okay by the way that the address is that was listed there that's my address the 823 yeah I think I think this the gentleman John Allen understood too um I also note that the F number ented on the housing application include the New Hampshire area code second it is not clear from the petition and supporting materials whether the accessory apartment has two means of agress third when uh while I recognize the community benefit of affordable accessory apartments and providing living arrangements for people whose financial situation limits their ch of housing allowing a market rate apartment in a single family residential district does not produce the same Community benefit permitting an affordable accessory apartment to become an accessory apartment simply gives the owner the change the ability to change a higher rent charge a higher rent for his apartment which is a personal benefit to the owner without any Community benefit based on the foregoing I respectfully request that the petition be denied on that note again we didn't author we didn't weren't asked to chime in I guess maybe we were asked to chime in but we didn't participate chiming in from this board to the town meetings a consideration and passing of this byw we are merely instructed to uphold it and so as as again I've said to you and I hear Mr Martin agreeing which is that while we might not like it it's there and if anybody wishes to change it they need to go back to town meeting and ask for a a a new Vote or ask for a new bylaw that it resends this uh so I I regret it but it's here all right so from Mary Mark Gillis who is as everybody knows our Building Commissioner fine man if you haven't met him please go try and to meet him it's good guy he says Dear chairman D young section 407 of the zoning by uh contains specific requirements for the creation of an accessory apartment it appears that the requirement for the principal dwelling be owned OCC owner occupied as required by section 47.3 paragraph 11 is not met uh as indicated by the most recent field card printed from the assessing Department web page which is attached previous additions of the zoning bylaw also contained in this requirement condition number six in the March 2015 decision 4577 stated the following six the owner shall comply with all rules and regulations related to accessory affordable accessory Apartments please let me know if you have any questions so the field card lists Martin and GM and mm Dugo again your parents and so if there is a decision favorable to you this evening it's going to state that this this relief was granted on a representation by you as to their residency in that home okay to of Y of housing is in space use bylaw I'm not going to go into that I don't know why that's the Declaration of Covenant affordable accessory of that you've declared previously that you are on the owner of the property and even though you've signed it I guess it's your mother that or father that should really have signed it and then of course that decision 4577 back in March of 2015 so that's all that the board has uh to consider at this point except for any input from the audience so anyone that would like to speak and favor of this petition please come to the microphone tell us who you are and we'll hear you oh was not a cattle her Stampede there is there all right does anybody wish to speak in opposition to this petition if so raise your M your hand and proceed to the mic seeing none we now close it to the public in put to the petition and open it up to board discussions and deliberations and with that I'll start with you Mr AO again thank you Mr chairman uh I think after the testimony of the petitioner and applying the criteria to bylaw I think the petitioner meets the criteria under Section 407 as such I'd like to make a motion that we approve petition as requested uh without conditions okay uh could you consider that there be a statement specifically identifying the representation made by the by the and do anything I just wanted on that record that's what what what I'd also like to do is have the petitioner fill out to have his parents fill out an affidavit and submit it as they being the principal owners or principal occupiers of the property okay P to ask that a copy of their driver's with the address also some some some some definition y still LIC to drive one of two is yeah one come to a certain age where your wife says get rid of that license of yours I'm almost there so listen here's the deal uh that would be nice I don't know that we can compel you to do that but that certainly would be helpful to assume and and assure to rather to assure what we're assuming here which is your integrity on the issue not to say you're not a man deserving of that but it's just we've been burned before understand Miss Murphy um are the utilities in your parents names or your name my your name okay um anything else in their name as far as this property property taxes go to you goes goes to both goes to both that's in both the property taxes bill goes to both of you both you and your parents I feel like there's more than one name on it I could be wrong you the address on there so it probably goes to you okay no more questions okay and Mr Martin no I didn't have anything else nor do I so if the board is prepared to make a follow up on Mr ao's motion uh that would be to approve the petition without condition uh let's draw see if we have a second for that second Mr M second y does the board car any discussion before moving along to a vot hearing none Mr VY hi Mr IO hi M Murphy hi Mr Martin hi and I'm an I so that carries 5 to Z a decision will be drafted it will be filed with the town clerk's office 20 days must elapse after that has been filed you then take the the do document you bring it to the bondable registry of deeds you Rec record it and return proof that you've recorded it back to our incredible office administrator okay the brain of our operation I want you to know that and so uh is to satisfy the file that is a requirement okay and uh once you've done that then you're good to go all right thank you nice to see you have a good evening what's today's date everybody thank you that moves us right along to the next matter that is petition 5131 NCI Auto Inc uh with property located 7 770 Route 28 sou AR mass that property is in a District B1 B2 appli seeks a special per 202.5 for H4 use and or a variant from 30146 and 303. 5.2 to construct a 9,991 square foot building for a Nissan dealership to include Sales and Service while parking air car inventory storage Landscaping and signs know the the face of the two of you so let's start with you sir what is your name for the record my name is Andrew singer I'm an attorney in dennisport here on behalf of the gentleman sitting next to me good evening Mr chairman members members of the public uh my name is Steven Su I am the President of the proposed Nissan dealership that's going up you may also remember me from I own the cape and Islands Kia which I'm happy to report as a successful boomman is that why Mr uh that that guy Teddy zabell there yeah we got that Teddy back the third yes we're also joined by good to see you Mr Zell we're also joined by U Andrew that knows a lot more about uh the technical stuff than I do I can sell cars with the best of them but that's about it and we have uh my Builders conerve here behind me uh and also civil engineering company to answer all your questions if we can hopefully let's go right ahead I'm gonna let Andrew kind of take it from here because again he's the brains of the operation I'm the sales guy way you want to do it at your dime uh I'm not a sales guy so I'll talk about the zoning stuff um in any of us here at the table or as Stephen said in the first row behind me um any questions that you might have online or here we'll get it to the correct person to answer um we appreciate your time this evening um NCI Auto Inc is a tenant at this property and um the property today has two existing curb cuts on Route 28 contains um just under 15,000 feet of disturbed land it's been used for miscellaneous parking and other uses over the year but this is the first time I think it's been before you for a full onsite you know full Redevelopment proposal for the property um the as noted in the legal ad uh proposing a 9,991 foot Auto Sales and Service building and 1453 squ feet of automobile inventory storage behind the building in a in a storage area the project requires a special permit for an H4 Auto Sales and accessory service use in this Zone and potenti potentially variance relief that I'll discuss uh as was noted in the legal ad in order to Grant the special permit for the H4 Auto use um the board must make a finding that the proposal will not create any undue Nuance Hazard or congestion and and that there will be no substantial harm to the established or Future character of the town or the neighborhood the applicant respectfully submits that the proposed Redevelopment satisfies each of these criteria and will be a benefit to the neighborhood in the town for a number of reasons first the property is located in a commercial Zone among other commercial uses on a main road the applicant as Stephen alluded to has many years experience operating similar uses including the Kia next door and he has a proven track record of providing highquality service to residents of Cape Cod there will be a reduction of the two curb cuts down to one as you can see on the plan so the two which are on the outside will be Consolidated into one curb cut in the center of of the property um will'll ultimately have to go to Mass DOT for revision to the curb cut permit but you can't do that until you get all your local permits there is going to be a significant landscape buffers uh to either side of the entrance driveway and then down the side of the property um there is also going to be the building is 89.1 ft back from Route 28 um and all of the parking complies with the bylaw that there can be no parking in front of a building and I will tell you that was a little bit of a hard nut for an auto salesman dealership to to like because they like to have their cars up front but that's not going to be the case on this property so this 100% complies with the requirement that all parking be to the side and rear of the building there will be a conforming number of parking spaces as well um in addition in the parking lot for which is going to be used by customers and employees there it meets the requirement of One Tree in lot tree per eight parking spaces in the open area we are not and this was in my summary of reasoning we are not proposing any trees in the inventory storage area and I will discuss that um a little bit more it was a question that came up um when we were talking with Mr grills during site plan review um that is not part of the conventional parking area for the business it is going to be inventory storage but I will discuss that just so you know that is that was the question for where there would be no trees everywhere else in the property from there forward to the street all the inl trees that are required are being proposed the building itself will conform to all setbacks so it's meeting front side and rear setback it is also going to be only 28 feet tall to the to the to the flat roof so to that roof with respect to height need room down here now you going spread out a little um we gave you the smaller plans but those are hard to read so big enough yeah yeah they're big enough okay um with respect to the height this is something that um is not a plan before you you have the elevations for the building um just today the applicants team was having a meeting with the senior execs at Nissan's design team and that design team actually expressed a preference for a proportionate reduction in the height of the building they actually thought that instead of 28 ft 24 ft might be better and so because of this if the board would so entertain in an approval this evening we would ask if you would reflect in a decision that the applicant May reduce the height of the building which is already conforming it's well under the maximum allowed but may reduce the height of the building further um and submit copies of such elevation plans to the building and Zoning departments uh after as part of this special permit so we wouldn't have to come back as you know the if you're seeking relief that exceeds what you had notice the public on but if you're looking to reduce the nonconformity by all means like there's no problem with that in this case it be it be has a problem with the 24 foot it would be reducing a Conformity even in this case so but well if that and we can discussed that I just wanted to put that as part of our presentation appreciate that Mr chairman um but yes in case they would like to do that um and they just have to have some more meetings then that would be the request um I I don't think anyone's going to notice it you know on a building this size four feet um 89 feet back from the road um I don't think it's going to be evidenced either way what is the Kia dealership height um Roy perhaps you could help me with that justt maybe i' say it's probably about 30 feet would be my and how far back is that from the road oh further much further back okay thank you um building coverage on this new lot is going to be only 8% so it's well under the 25% that's allowed impervious site coverage is going to be 48% also well under the 70% allowed so this site is going to not be maxed out in terms of of impervious coverage or building uh sight lighting will comply with all lighting requirements as shown on a photometric plan they're proposing sidewalk uh to tie into the existing sidewalk along Route 28 out front um as for landscaping um the applicant agreed during site plan review as I noted to to redesign the front of the driveway to provide these larger landscape beds at the beginning there wasn't going to be quite so much but site plan riew asked for more and and Mr Su agreed and so that's why you have these very significant landscape um beds and as you can see on the landscape plan there are numerous plants shrubs and trees proposed um for the ground cover that's in between the plant shrubs and trees um what the applicant is requesting is a or is proposing with your approval would be a mix of ground cover to consist of both grass or turf and earthy colored stones and and that is something that that is actually next door you know so it's something that that is a little bit easier in parts to maintain contain um but it's a mix of green so you get the grass in there but you also get where it's appropriate some stones and that would be on the ground cover in between all of the plant shrubs and trees that would be a request from the applicant for your consideration um we would submit that there's going to be no negative impact to drainage septic or storm water the pro property will connect to the new town sewer uh when available and in fact if you drove down Route 28 today the property was right where the detour was today where they were putting in pipe so you couldn't go on further that being said uh until that time there be my house any time maybe I don't want the better well that's true um or the disruption temporarily um as far as the uh other permits the Yarmouth Conservation Commission has reviewed this plan they have approved both in order conditions because there are some Wetlands to the back um to the North and then to the Northeast and they also approved the storm water permit so those two permits um have been issued we have them in hand uh for recording with the registry of deeds and finally the for the special permit The Proposal will be in keeping and compatible with the character of the neighborhood and we submit will be an asset to the town now that's the special permit and there were three areas where we potentially need some alternative Relief by variants or we may not need that relief and I wanted to discuss those with you the first we've already mentioned which is the in lot tree requirement for the back storage area um this was a discussion at at site plan review because if the inventory here was beach chairs you know or or some other kind of inventory for a retail store we wouldn't be having this conversation because they'd be in a in a storage area and that would be what it is in this case the storage area is going to have be cars and the cars are going to be put in there but they're going to be put in there as you can see on the plan the idea is to put them in to store them that is where they would be taken from when um when necessary in this particular case um requiring in lot trees in the back storage area itself um is a significant hardship both financial and practical and and maybe more so uh practically is that it would likely render the project infeasible because there would be no there wouldn't be a sufficient space to store the cars that are needed for the for the inventory for the business business itself what what Mr Su is proposing here is compressing the storage area down as you see on the plan and that's allowing the area to stay 50 or more feet from the Wetland to the Northeast more than 100 feet from the Wetland to the north and it allows that sight coverage much more of the property again more than 50% of the lot is going to remain in its natural state and so to the extent and and again I don't believe that that storage area as a storage area needs relief but to the extent that you felt it did we would respectfully submit that it would meet the variance criteria because there is a hardship um but I would ask you to determine that it's a storage area as we think it is and does not need in lot trees back there there are trees as I said all up the you know the property sides are completely conforming on trees in lot trees within the main parking area um behind to the sides to the building are completely conforming the the other areas for discussion are signage and um wanted to hold this I I submitted this so if you have this so the the top right this this was the Nissan the signs they offer you know that that they do typically so on the top right and I did a asterisk there that is the proposed Monument sign uh for the business and that sign would only be 9 ft 3 and 3/4 in so it is you know well under the 12 ft by height that you can allow just for comparison purposes for height only if you're familiar with the Kia sign next door that Monument sign that's 10 feet tall so just to give you some comparison this would be about um three inches two or three inches I'm sorry two or three two and a half feet um wait sorry 2 and 1/2 ft below the what's allowed at 12T it would be about uh 7 in below the Kia sign just for frame of reference um however it is a little bit wider and so that sign is uh would require relief it's at 42.5 two square feet um which is larger than generally allowed at 24 feet however we do suggest that it is in keeping with um the neighborhood and also with this size of a property and the scale of a building uh so that it it'll look consistent um as you're driving down the street the other request for Relief is on the building itself and um you have the if you the second page of that colored handout that I gave you on the on the left hand side you can see the Nissan logo uh and the third page has the letters for cap and Islands in Nissan now the letters are conforming they're not greater than 2 feet in height um um they um the logo um the size if you add up the Nissan side now this is where it gets a little tricky business is Cape cut Nissan so we we had proposed that Nissan on the right hand side um if that is something the board felt was more than they wanted that could be dropped and you could leave cape and Islands on the left and Nissan logo in the middle which which would match it would be similar to what's next door at the Kia there's a logo in the center of the building and then there's the words cape and Islands um yes thank you um so so that is something here to discuss we did not the letters were kept to be no more than the two feet uh but at the moment with the word Nissan it is greater than onethird of the running face of the building also this is a quirky situation you can have two signs for the business but only if they were on perpendicular walls and clearly these aren't ular so the name of the business is cap and Islands Nissan if we get rid of the word Nissan you have cap and islands and then you have the logo so we'd suggest that that's effectively one sign but they are separated a little bit just like at the Kia dealership so that's something obviously we look you know look forward to speaking with you you know about I say potato you say potato right very potentially um that that is the presentation the building itself um or the site design itself everything conforms with a potential exception of that question on the rear storage area and then the question of signs to discuss um we'd be happy to answer any questions thanks and before we go to the members I just have a question for you sure do you have any definitive list of relief you need of the relief do you have any definitive list yes of the relief you need I can tell you the relief that we've app I want you to tell me I'm asking is there a written list it's in the summary of reasoning yeah and it's in the application okay um yes I can pull that out well it certainly isn't on page two right so where where would it be where would it be that I can read it as numbered relief needed you want a copy of it no I have a copy application I looking at it right before the meeting was it's on the petition you say yeah on the face it's on the face of the petition all right um so what it was I can tell you what it is it's H4 special permit no you we don't need to I just wanted to know if you had a list oh because you're telling us on the one guys that you don't believe you need relief but you want us to Grant relief well we're not going to Grant relief to you for things that you don't need correct so what I put on the on the application in discussion with with Dolores is um I put the potential request for relief from sections 31.4659 . 5.4.1 and 303.5 5.1 in point2 thank you okay so Mr Freer do you have questions of our petitioners um yes I mean personally I'd like to see it consistent with the the facility next door which is two signs on the building I think that's a reasonable approach I'm not sure which two you'd like but if you want the logo and Cape islands that seems to proper one also that logo right now the way it's the set up it looks like it uh it goes above the top of the building and I think that's also something that's in the bylaw not to happen if I remember correctly I I can address that but I'll wait till unless you want me to address it now Mr fre pre address that as I go so you would oh so now okay um yes I did address that and I forgot to mention that's in my summary I apologize if you look at page two of the colored um the color sign plans um on the second uh it's actually page three the second page but it's numbered page three on the left where asteris the there is a small architectural element to which the sign is affixed which extends 13.763 or 28 feet um and that one section uh that is um where the it has that architectural treat treatment that goes 1.76 in it's not the sign you're correct signs cannot extend above the the ridg line of the building what this is in this case is the architectural element to which the sign the logo sign is being affixed so that is why I did not believe I mentioned it in my summary on page four but I don't believe it needs relief as under the relief we were discussing before all right Mr Brey anything else so still going um so you're you're basically saying that's part of the structure not part of the um not part of the sign correct just how tall is the building including that as above this the top of the as shown right now the building is 28 fet this is 13.763 feet one and 3/4 in in that one place where the architectural element goes above the building it's about 9 ft um but the rest of the building would be the 28 ft at the moment 3 um the other thing I have is have a concern about trying to exceed the 24 feet for a sign street but I'll listen to what others have um but I do think two signs is a reasonable approach on the signs I think the H4 is fine obviously it's right next door also I think it works out as far as I'm concerned and uh the trees the the trees on the side of the side parking I vital for for visuals but in the back I'd be willing to discuss that thank you Mr hio please yes um I heard you mention that I I reviewed your landscape plan and it looks woefully inadequate uh it does have a list of Shrubbery on it but it has nothing other than that when we talk about ground cover uh I know there was a mention in one of your footnotes somewhere about planting grass uh I would like to see grass there now you're coming in and saying it's going to be a mixture of grass and stone and other dirt and I don't know what other coverings you're at um I wouldn't really feel comfortable approving this tonight without a more definitive uh landscape plan because I think that's very important so i''d like to make some representations to Ally my concerns I'd be certain certainly happy to listen to them um again now again now Mr iGo I'm happy to unless Mr Martin did you want to say something before I speak no just that there it seems to be trees on the plan to me y yes so so as far as the Landscaping that you just raised if you look at Sheets uh three of 10 four of 10 I mean there a significant um I have I have what you have called the landscape plan I see a list of Shrubbery and I see a number of trees I don't see any ground cover on them no no no no that yeah I so so as far as the ground cover so I a't the I think there is a detailed list of the shrubs plants and trees but as far as the ground cover what I had suggested was a mixture of grass and Stones not dirt or mulch however if you would like it to be grass you know we can we can agree that the ground cover amongst the shrubs plants and trees will be grass or we would request permission grass or turf because these days Turf can be extremely um it looks really good and sometimes it's even better environmentally so Mr iGo what we would request at that point is that the ground cover be grass or turf I'm not sure what you mean by Turf to look know you're building let me tell you where I'm coming from sure R developing Route 28 I want it to look nice brass looks nice that's why golf courses look nice so you're coming in with a multi-million dollar project here I don't think it's going to be going to kill you financially to plant grass and make it look nice do you no grass it is okay that'd be great um I see the border of Health uh requested that you supply a list of fluids that you're going to be using in your service area has that been provided to the Board of Health yet probably not yet but it will be and if that want to make that as a condition of an approval absolutely you I would like to make that a a condition of can you get to the Board of Health I mean I there's so much that we're being asked to consider approving tonight but will be done in the future toay our concerns and one of them has always been particularly in this area with with the water coures behind it uh ground ground well we're complying we don't this is not the APD and in in the SE the APD concerned about it oh absolutely but every everything complies I don't think we need a separate permit from the Board of Health they just asked for that list to be put on file during site plan review and we have a book on file that we keep us well and Mr Su is saying they have a book with all that for next door and they would be similar so yeah no there were no there's no I understand what you're saying Mr the Young and when we need a permit from the Board of Health we do go and get that and get health comments but in this case no permits are needed um and but as as Mr iGo mentioned um you that was a request just for the file at site plan review and we're happy to do it is a c washing going to be performed on the premises no car wash on site so I'd want to see that in a decision that there's no car washing to be conducted on the SP okay uh um on the attached signs on the building I I tend to agree with Jay I I could go with two on the uh on the front uh the piece that goes over the roof that that I I think I might agree that that's more of an architectural uh addition than a sign itself um so I mean I I can live with that one uh see your 10 foot buff r on the Westerly side appears incomplete can you speak to that this is on the safe plan review comment sheets on that Westerly side yes there was a request I think during site plan review to add um it was one of more trees on the west side and and they were added as they they have been added so that's complying okay okay um good I my my personal opinion with the monument signed I I think it would look fine as proposed um I I understand we're given some variance relief there but I do think we need some give and take I mean we are dealing with a national brand here and I think what they proposed is very Tastefully done as it has been next door the Kia dealership I think the Kia dealership looks very nice by the way did a great job over yeah I'm sure this one's going to be great too um that's all I think I have for now let me just take one quick at my notes here thank you um that that's it for now thank you Mr chair thank you um just want to go back again to the trees along the back of the lot why is that a hardship the if you so if you look at the the site plan and we're talking the area we're talking about is the inventory storage area in the back so yeah all the other inlaw trees are there no issues the concern here is that the the that's been designed in such a way that you can park because you can't have cars in front of the building all the inventory has to be put behind the building and so what they'd like to do you know is not put them space space space they'd like to almost like a valet lot you know where you have all your inventory stored close together if we have to start separating that out with in lot trees like a parking lot then all of a sudden you're going to lose the ability to stack the cars for inventory storage and you'd have to if you still needed the same number of cars to make the business viable you'd have to expand further out and we're trying to stay as far away from the wetlands as possible and also keep that impervious coverage down that's all Mr M yeah just that uh I know there's an on the planet it says exist trees of a 4in caliber shall remain I know in the front right hand corner there is at least one large tree there uh which was in the buffer zone and uh doesn't show on the landscape plan as being retained and it should be so because that's a you know that's a big uh mature tree that would be good good to keep uh the only other thing I had was any consider ation given to where it's we have caping islands and Nissan in the front of the building um Nissan's way pushed over to the right can that be sented better uh on the building on the building the Nissan uh word uh or lettering appears to be pushed way over to the right well well that word Nissan I think is gonna is gone because listening to Mr Frey and Mr IO and probably they they I think I won't put words in anyone's mouth but you know and this and Mr su's okay with that we could the words Nissan to that right hand side Mr Martin could leave you know we could we can tell you we could remove them that we we withdraw that part of the request you're doing anyways okay and what you'd have is the cap and islands and the logo that covers it that's all I have I'm going to tell you right now I need to see a more defined uh landscape plan I need to see an actual depiction of what the signs that you're proposing will look like on on the building a rendering not not seeing as it's been presented I want to see the building with the signs that you're proposing to be in the locations you're proposing them for this plan in a version like this in a colored version I mean it this isn't hard you know I I can go on my uh you know computer and and do it oh he take minutes I just want to see exactly where they are we've heard VAR things may be there it's just not in color Mr Mr D young but this is the plan all we would be doing is adding color to this plan this is a scaled plan it's fine do that okay you're not going to get a vote a positive vote from me tonight without certain things being done the next item is that I want to see a compreh ensive list of only that relief you are seeking I don't need to have rationals I don't need any of that what I need is a comprehensive list that says I want relief under 407. 3.2 you know whatever I I I just want to see it in black and white and I don't see that it's not a portion of the petition per se I want you to tell me what needs it and not rationale I don't care about r I work that rationel out myself and you've done an amazing job of presenting this petition as far as I am concerned as always the product that we receive from this owner of property inana is done well and it's done uh usually with absolute uh uh detail and uh provides us with very little to consider other than is the vote Y and a so just a couple of things things you can come here next meeting okay oh in in a way we can I can't I will not be here play Zoom I am going to be in Asia I'm not unfortunately going to be able to zoom into that meeting huh did you say you're gonna be in Jamaica Asia Asia I guess more important than us well I don't know if it's more well yeah okay it's more important um in Florida should I should I not be in Florida should I not attend well no Mr Mr uh I go in Florida and I don't know where Mr freey is but no no you can zoom in for that listen if I could zoom in I would yeah I know I I look you're nothing but festigious and professional in your presentations on every topic you present on and I applaud you again for a very fine presentation and as far as I can see given the the all I'm looking for a couple of minor things a a better plan a better landscape plan and a list a comprehensive list of what it is you want for Relief I don't need rationale give us those three things and I'm going to tell you if I receive them and they're as you represent I I'm they'll be incorporated as as the conditions to the decision if that's required uh and if they're not then we don't won't bother with them uh we'll just uh uh follow uh what you presented but at the end of the day I'll tell you that I'm very much in favor of the petition okay so don't misread anything I've said here tonight I just think we need to have a clean file and in two weeks I'm sorry but this has been in the planning stages for a long time I'm sure two weeks isn't going to hurt anybody except maybe Mr zamb Bellis who had to drag himself away from his restaurant this evening well no it's just I'm going to have to find coverage for Mr Su to come back you know you want to go to another meeting then men oh no no no no he's time is is of the essence um I just so I have a question a couple to if I could in a response Mr chairman because I do need some guidance I can give you a list I I mean I I believe I've given it to you already but I can give we can give you another list of the relief but the question about in lot trees in the inventory storage area do we need that relief because if we do I'll put it on the list but if we don't I won't that's 301.4c I personally don't think you need it in the back I just would like to see a better plan of what you're putting out front when you said to me colored Stone uh you know that that just kind of raised my an earth earthy color what is that okay um actually I beg to disagree I think you do need the relief yeah I think you do need the relief on the spaces because the bylaw is written just in terms of numbers of parking spaces and those are in parking spaces of one sort or another but it is a storage area I mean if it wasn't if cars weren't the inventory I think you'd agree as well we would then it they certainly wouldn't require relief right it just happens to be the inventory he's telling you he thinks he needs you need relief correct and uh he says that and your presentation would seem to justify the relief you're asking for so it's real simple just submitt a landscape plan and and and ask that that relief be granted that's just that simple we don't need to argue about it tonight but I do want to emphasize you've done a fabulous job presenting tonight now does anybody in our audience care to speak in favor of this petition please come to the microphone let's hear what you got to say seeing none does anybody care to speak in opposition to this petition please come to the microphone seeing we now uh is there anybody in our uh Zoom audience that might like to speak in favor or against this petition no Mr chairman okay and so now we're going to close it to Bo public input open it up to board discussion and deliberations um how do y'all feel about my suggestion of what I'd like to see before this could be approved by me anyway fine yeah all right so does anyone want to make a m a motion to continue this moved and that's something certainly you have no problem with right well I have a problem with it but I can't say anything so I'm going to be sure no I have no problem with it when is your next meeting though October 10th October 10th October 10th yeah I'll have to be in a hotel room by 6 but I'll get on I'll get there um Mr chairman I just uh this is J I'm just thinking that the three things that he's identified as needing relief for are listed on the uh the zoning but I understand you'd also like to see on the I really would I'm not inclined to vote in favor of this this evening and I think that Mr Martin's concerns about removal of in lot trees should be taken very seriously and that relief should be asked for because in his opinion and he certainly is a champion of this over the years uh in lot trees should never be removed uh but he may give consideration to this as said it's all it has been requested I it would be buffer trees it also looks like there are buffer trees on at least the easterly boundary no back door neighbor those aren't being shown there's a notation on there but but they're not being shown that all we're seeing is new trees uh seeming to go in there and actually if you save what's there it's cheaper anyone want to make a motion concerning this petition oh on both sides of the property have trees did somebody say something about a motion uh I think there was one you you did I I did not oh I said so moved oh okay Mr M oer continue to 1010 that was Mr frery who said that I did Frank I mean Jay Jay okay and you did that as a second yes he did thank you Jay all right did the board K have any discussion on this before moving into a vote hearing Mr chairman just if if I may just for clarification to the petitioner just so we're all on the same page you want a specific list of the relief requested laid right out you want a you want a landscape plan uh detailed landscape plan and uh we have to address the question of the uh elimination of in lot trees in the rear of the property is that correct I thought there was one sound right in in addition he also asked for a colored elevation showing the signs on the front of the building just show me a depiction of the signs as it will look you know when you start talking about you've raised the the roof line there I get it you want to break up that long roof line that's great and and it's a a great idea it's also very modest if you ask me and and I think there'll be no problem with us considering that but I need to see things uh visually I'm I'm one of those people that really wants to see what I'm being asked to do what was that restaurant that was there before c each place across the street was an old Cottage col I think way back maybe maybe it's next door I don't know but I do remember there being a nightclub there next door uh it was one of those great places that back in the 80s you could at 18 stop and go in you know you shouldn't admit that but hey whatever statute of limitations might have run on that oh okay yeah yeah yeah my parents are dead so I can't get in trouble there all right so let's do a roll call Mr Martin all Miss Murphy hi Mr Frey okay say said I can you hear me said can now okay right Mr I go I all right I'm an I so we'll see you 10 10 thank you Mr singer we we we again we just love seeing and you I'm sure your your principal is well equipped with dealing with these sorts of questions thank you I need a five minute recess please okay may we do that take five minutes and come back AB five minute recess please sure yeah join the club so the does she know I'm here oh yeah yeah she's okay I don't think your mics are off so just keep that in mind I was just letting you know I'm I'm I'm moving this is a good time to move Jay while chairman is out of the room that's what I figured you been no naps no naps no naps could probably use one next one's withdrawing right um yeah again again does not sound good it does not have to make it wearing a mask few more hours I found another folder there you see I'm sorry I found another folder there you see they're all rambling around in my car okay there's another gray F folder there BL shrinking huh BL shrinking no comment all right Mr frea are you able to get back on back I'm uh back oh good yes I'm here okay great all right so let's go back to the agenda please and I I want to thank everybody for your patience with me um the next matter is that of Jan Ry Trustee of 71 Acres Avenue reality trust that property being located at 71 Acres of in West Jam property and excuse me Mr chairman 25 I see we don't see we're on number 5132 am I looking at the wrong one I think the many Pap 81e 28 is withdrawing again yeah but I think we have to act on it be glad motion to uh allow it I'm sorry jay hang on a second the chairman hasn't read it in to the public so it's petition 5132 rosan nicoles Trustee of the P ponco reality Trust the date of trust of July 2595 uh and care of Christina megason property is located at 811 Route 28 South Yarmouth and the petitioner had sought relief pursuant to uh the rights offend appended to the zoning districts B2 hmod D1 and vc2 specifically the applicant was seeking a special permit pursuing to 4.4 or4 8.9 point4 sub paragraph D to allow the relief from the armouth architectural and sight design standards section 10 and to allow the existing overhead electric power is source to remain uh in order to develop eight one-bedroom apartments attorney Paul tardiff has represented these this petitioner when it's come before us and at least is representing them now and indicates that on behalf of his client he wishes to have the petition withdrawn is someone prepared to make a motion to withdraw it sure so moved without prejudice Mr Martin moves I think I waso se oh Mr IO moved I'm sorry joh second okay I was doing my dick Martin impression did you was it you sounded just like him that's too bad for you just a second what's say again 24 266 okay uh on that uh let's just do it by roll call very quickly Mr Martin uh all Dy Miss Murphy I'm so sorry sorry I'm so sorry you don't look like a Dy though I'm a Murphy all the way um I Mr Frey hi Mr AO hi and I'm an i carries unanimously I'll give the file to you before we leave the next item is that of Rose vaner property located at 17 Allison Lane West jth Mass that property being in a zoning District r25 the applicant seeks a special permit for to 104.3 point2 sub paragraph two of our zoning bylaws or in the alternative of a variance pursuant to 203.50 bes side and rear setback relief to build an 8 by2 shed the applicant requests a waiver from the requirement of a certified plot plan less than two years old okay who's here for this I am Rose verer hello okay why don't you tell us all about it well my grandson started up little handyman Landscaping masonary little business and he was using my sheds and he said n I'm going to build a shed in the back of the house I own 18 and 17 I said oh good idea okay I helped him pay for it and he built it and he built it too big we measured it I went over there myself I measured it he is8 the property is it abuts two Corner Lots our property abuts two Corner Lots so the shed would be here this guy's house is over there on Anastasia I think it is this guy's house faces Allison and then there's our property and a another property behind us on Anastasia and I measured it and it came to I measured it nobody else did it was five feet from the rear eight feet from the side and 30 of or more from the front of the house they're small Lots they're 10,000 square foot Lots so the shed itself is 30 or 40 feet from each one of the houses and the property lines pretty much 25 or 30 feet from their house to the fence the guy next door we kind of got friendly with them he has some renters there and they were cited for different trailers and stuff as were we we were too and they built from our fence toward Leonard and on Allison a Corral as big as this to bring in all their and trucks and then they close the gates so I said to Dom that's kind of a good idea you know build a shed and then you can back your trailers and everything right back in and keep all your junk in the back right now it's kind of like Str around but I he needs this shed I need this shed so I don't have to look at his wonderful array of junk okay pretty much explains it huh board members might have some questions of course and so uh Mr AO any questions about a petitioner uh yes um so your son is running a business on this property is that what you're telling us not really running a business on his property he lives there well what type of a business is he in he gets in his truck and he goes to customers like other guys on the game what type of a business is he in he is in cutting grass Mason work once in a while for people he doesn't have anyone coming to the house not even any help I remember that back where I came from didn't do that okay um I have in front of me a letter dated January 30th 2024 uh address to you second notice about uh debris in your yard has that been addressed yet little by little yeah we're getting there not quite there as I said I really need him to get his stuff off of his trailers and put away and that kind of stuff and we could do that then he knows he doesn't have any choice well the the letter that I'm referring to talks about trash trash can oh that's all done yeah that's all done so if we had an inspector go by there they'd report back to us that this is in compliance with the uh with the sandation code yes okay um and you don't have a a plot plan for this it's eight what what size is this shed 8 by 20 by 20 16 by it was fine before he went and put a little addition on okay well your your application says 8 by 20 on you wear that who took the measurement of the shed I did okay I'm uh it's 8 ft from the prop the side property line yeah m Mr that that's all I have for now I will say Mr chairman that I would not be prepared uh vote favorably on this petition until uh that issue on the degis is satisfied with the health but uh I'll let others speak thank you thank you Mr Frey sorry um I did have a couple questions first of all I drove by today and there were like uh three or four trucks in the uh in the front yard in the driveway as well as more in the in the road um kind of blocking the road they're fully full of equipment um right it doesn't didn't look like anybody was living in the residence it looks like it's being used as a business and the front yard was full of debris so um I I would want a plot plan a legitimate plot plan I just want to see the whole place cleaned up and I do I think the bigger question is whether or not it's being used as a business certainly looks like it but I don't have question go ahead Jay I'm sorry I I don't have any questions I just really question whether this is being used as a business okay um yeah I I I agree with with um Jay and I'm very concerned with the appearance of the lot um especially to your neighbors so I think we need some verification that that's been cleaned up and it's not the case that it's become an iord of the neighborhood I know it's a beautiful neighborhood and just started this couple years and the guys next door have a business they're running behind those Gates every morning at quarter to 7 three or four trucks start up and they pull out huge big black trailers and off they go and unfortunately we were workers come and we're only dealing with your piece of property I know but what happens they should get after him too yep I don't want to do that because everybody you know my grandson said Nan this is what it takes to live on Cape cot what we have to do to make money to be able to live here I said I know Dominic but you have to clean up your messes I I can't M it's not like a business business I me with all like yeah all due respect I I I I understand your uh where you're coming from and I understand the uh hardship that it may imply but I did also drive by in both 17 and 18 Alice and are they don't look good there's an awful lot of mess throughout both properties and uh you know we have to look at as well what's F you know yeah we can understand that somebody wants to run a business or be able to do part of their business so so to speak from there but it's not fair to the uh to the neighbors and people selling their properties or whatever the case may be as to uh as to what the neighborhood uh looks like in general so uh I would also concur that I I'd want to see the see the property cleaned up um uh it's apparently we're not maybe asking for the right size square footage on the shed as soon as you're within six feet you know if it was under 100 square F feet then you'd then you'd be all right with the six feet from the line but because it's bigger you have to abide by the setback requirements and uh so that hasn't been done so I think it's both the placement well well the placement of the shed's going to need relief and I think it needs to be applied for correctly if it's bigger than what we're looking at here well first of all the petition apparently is wrongly States the relief that is being sought yeah so we couldn't if we if we acted on this it's going to be a denial I can tell you that right now because the petition isn't properly drafted it's not a rocket science to do it we encourage you to try to work to have it done but we need accurate measurements you know and we need to see where it is on the ground in terms of lineal feet including inches not a maybe not a guess but where it actually is okay and that's a difficult thing to do we understand but you know do the best you can to get us an actual measurement now you don't have to have us do that tell you that you can say I want you to vote on this tonight and you need at least a four in favor and zero four in favor okay and one against would be the minimum vote and Mr igo's already said he's not going to vote in favor and I'm already saying I'm not going to vote in favor so as a consequence instead of if that were to happen you wouldn't be able to reapply before this board for one year and so what we're saying to you is this if you wish uh to continue this hearing so that you can submit an amended comp uh petition and a proper something particularly photos they say uh they tell a thousand words sometimes they do sometimes they don't uh the fact that your neighbor is violating any aspect of our law in the town of yanas is of no consequence to your petition none we don't give relief because the guy next door is a violating the law okay that's not not what we do and so if you want us to do that to continue it we're happy to do that as an accommodation to you because if you don't and we're forced to vote on it tonight or alternatively you could say I'd like to have it withdrawn without prejudice and I don't know I I think I'm I would vote in favor of that Mr IA would the other four three members would then you'd have it withdrawn so that it wouldn't be under any obligation to provide us anything but you'd still be in violation and continue to receive monetary fines for your violation so I I respectfully suggest to you that it might be in your benefit to ask to continue this while you get just those couple of things together and present them back to us got to be from you though would you like to continue it I I I have to continue it okay so anybody prepared to make a motion to continue this petition please someone uh so move Mr M thank you and who's the second thank you Barbara and so um I saw her raise her hand and so uh what's the next day we could put this on it would be October 24th you available October 24th maybe well if you're not then we'll just take it off the list and discuss think I think we should have a discussion before we move on this uh uh what first off the petitioner hasn't given us any indication as to what she's going to achieve between now and the continuance I'd like to know what she's going to do when we ask if she's available she says maybe I I don't want to waste the board's time for her to come back and tell us what happened on the on the lot next door yeah okay so I I'm not inclin to vote in favor of a continuance of this matter until there's some good faith representation by the petitioner that she's going to do what she needs to do to accomplish what she needs to do and that is a certified plot plan where this building is located and it needs to be properly I guess she's asked for the proper relief she asked firment and variance so I also want to see photographs of the site well she needs to see there's a lot of stuff here and the fact that she's still in violation with all of this stuff laying around and I'm told that her grandson is storing all his tools inside well they're running a business out of this so I think what we should ask is we should ask the chief zoing enforcement officer to make an inspection of this property so we can be better informed as well right so I I guess I'm not certain what we're asking her to do but I will agree to anything that moves us along to a conclusion this evening because well I'm more than happy get to vote in favor of a continuance but what are we continuing it for for her to present to us how she's going to remedy the violation noted by our Building Commissioner and to provide us a certified plot plan uh or at least something from an engineer uh show showing us the accurate dimensions of the building and uh distance from any side of buding line and uh again I've asked for pictures so those are the three things I'm asking for an amended petition photographs and a certified PL plan and again it's up we can make as conditions that the any approval is subject to her coming into compliance with all bylaws you know well right now she's violation of the sanitation code that whole are is in violation of the sanitation code least her least her property in the a butter well I don't know about the abutter I can't speak to the abutter because I don't have their violation notice I do have hers well that's a good point we don't have any violation notice for that property but it certainly looks like it would be in violation if inspected so what do you want to do there's a motion a second and what are we doing okay no I'll go along with it but if she comes back and she has nothing uh where then we can just take a vote on that but she should beare aware that she's right now subject to $200 a day for the violation of the sanitation code and $300 a day for violation of the zoning bylaw yeah that's between her and them not us pardon me any finds a fees between the and and the finding Authority she she should understand that it's not that we're oppose the fines but she's not she's still subject to those yep I got it clear clearly do you okay so you know I don't have any sympathy for this it's self-imposed I'm I'm happy to vote in favor of the continuances just as long as we're all on the same page I'm going to do a roll call vote Please Mr Martin I joh i j i and I'm an i carries unanimously 50 vote on roll call the matter is continued until October 24th Miss vaner I need you to sign an extension agreement sign a extension agreement yeah thank you be in the hospital that night with my wife's first grandchild wow very close to that be nice take it you need to date it as well it's 9:26 okay so we have I guess just minutes let's go to the minutes does anybody care to have any comment on them have you all reviewed them yep yep yep make a motion to approve the minutes second is there a second believe that was Jay is that right yes okay is there a second to the motion yes Mr chairman was J oh I'm sorry thank you so let's go forward with a roll call on it uh do we approve these the motion is to approve them it's been properly seconded and uh these are the minutes who in favor not you I I and misso I all right so that carries 5 uh there nothing about an adjournment now so somebody move for journ to adjourn and we shall move to ajour second