##VIDEO ID:oW9v9VMxKYA## how's everybody doing can you hear me yes yep uh Mr chairman I do not see Mr Freer yet online well we'll give him another minute if we don't see him then we'll we'll go with four okay time do we have six o'clock uh left couple minutes he's been he's been on email so I'm not sure exactly where he is okay hopefully we get five because uh Sean I realized I have a conflict with the uh second petition and and yes that's right after sitting on it last time you have a conflict with the the second petition here yeah okay well we'll take that one out of order if we get to it uh we'll we'll push them back in line see if Jay comes on Jay if you're out there you have 30 seconds to he's usually here [Music] early yeah I know he usually isn't early I'm the one that's late well well almost late late you're fashionably fashionably one minute of yeah yeah Dolores can you hear me yes Mr chairman okay when we go on would you ask Our IT guy to focus that uh camera on the petitioners uh yes sir okay that'd be great thanks um okay what time do we have here it's U 6:02 I think we're on so whenever you're ready all right we're going to be get now did you TR and MJ I've texted him yes it's only only way that somebody else gets that okay everybody ready all set okay good evening everyone welcome to the regularly scheduled meeting of the yth zoning board of appeals today's date is October 24th 2024 my name is Shan aigo I'm the vice chairman we have six matters on our agenda tonight the first is petition 5125 it's a continued matter from 8222 24 Joseph M Phillips uh property located at 8 Lindale Road South Yarmouth Mass it's in an r25 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit per 104.3 point2 subsection 2 Andor a variance from section 23.5 besides setback relief to construct a 27 by10 addition good evening sir could you identify yourself for the record Joe Phillips good evening Mr Phillips uh Mr Phillips go ahead and tell us about uh what's happened since the last time we saw you so last time I was here there was uh two concerns or three concerns from the board one was I hadn't gone before the conservation committee yet we've since done that and got a negative ruling favorable do I understand and the other issue was concern over having a deck on top of the addition and access from the second floor to that rooftop of this one-story Edition and we are not doing that we weren't doing in the beginning but the architect and his rendering showed a railing up top we'd like to keep the railing for aesthetic purposes but we have no intention of putting a deck up there it's going to be Firestone rubber roof okay and the addition itself is 27 ft long 10 ft wide so it's it's in compliance with a setback up until 10 ft then the last 17 ft it gradually gets to a low point of 10 feet to the sidey yard of our neighbor about 30t actual structure it's not parallel with their house their house is set up further than ours okay I think the only other thing we clarified was that the lot cover is 14 okay all right anything you'd like to add anything else you'd like to add at this time I just point out the setback on the addition to the front will be 61 feet and the rear 46 excuse me Mr chairman uh Mr frea is online and has been if the technician could invite him in as a panelist please can we Zoom him in um he is on but he needs to be invited as a panelist I'm just making sure the techn is aware of it Jay frea is one of the attendees thank you Jay you're muted can you hear us Jay I can hear you can you see me or hear me yes we can good evening Jay sorry about that I was on my iPad and it didn't uh didn't connect that's okay just to bring you up to speak we have opened the first petition 5125 as you aware you were on the last one uh this is Mr Phillips property located at 8 Lindale Road um and uh he's presented us with what he uh is seeking uh the difference uh from the last time that he was here is he's eliminated the rooftop deck above the addition uh he would like to keep the rail for aesthetic purposes but there will be no access to that um he did point out that it was in compliance with the setback he's on a corner lot so he has two sides and two fronts he is in compliance with the side setback in the rear he is not in the front he says about 60% of it is going to be in compliance but the balance of the 40% will run down to approximately 8 point well 8.89 ft uh and so that's his presentation um I do have a question sir you said you had a negative response from the Conservation Commission could you clarify that a a positive ruling I guess is that what they call it though a negative oh okay yeah I got that a couple weeks ago I think I fored on my uh updated narrative okay um I have a question um do you know uh what the height of your new foundation's going to be the height of the new I don't see it stamped anywhere is the first floor planned to be it'll be it'll be the same even yeah even with the existing structure no higher okay okay um all right Jay that's where we are right now so he's finished with his presentation and we're going to go to questions uh barara do you have any questions for the petitioner um no not right now okay John do you have any questions um I don't I would like to make this statement that I I wasn't here for the first petition but I did watch the video I am familiar I am familiar with the petition so um you know thank you for bringing that to my attention yeah I do understand that the you know we were looking for certain items uh Conservation Commission it appears as though uh we've got them all the only issue now um that I'm aware of is the side setback so but I don't have any questions oh thank you uh dick do you have any questions no I don't think I was here for the first one either right you oh you didn't sit on this one that's Ring well not ringing a bell I don't see the well if you didn't sit on this one then you'll have you did you bring yourself up to speed on it well yes actually ja you were I was it you were I don't remember it must have got uh postponed real quickly all right then I'm good you are listed okay you're good all right stay on this one do you have any questions for the petitioner uh I don't think so I uh you know there was an earlier Edition what was that back in 2019 on the the street side well as far as I'm concerned that was a lot more non-conforming than this one so um I uh as long as the we don't have any negative correspondents or anything from the neighbors right correspondence anyways um you know I I I look at these things when it's a side setback there's two sides here um I mean two uh actually it's two re isn't it I'm sorry but even so a uh you know this is an old house and when it was built they probably would have been able to build this to that distance at that time anyway so um I don't uh I don't have any any questions Jay do you have any questions I know first of all John welcome back but uh I uh if I remember correctly this is going from about an 18 foot setback you're going to go to go to eight feet on the side so what is it s feet into the into the side setback or rear whatever it's called it's technically a a side setback uh for purposes of the zoning but it's on the rear of what would be considered the rear the property normally a rear would be 20 but since this is a side it's 15 because of the corner lot we're talking about seven feet of encroachment basically that's correct it's almost 9 ft no I think that's the that's the to make sure I clarified but I did drive by it so I'm familiar with the house okay all right um well the last time we met I think there was some concerns that were expressed by a couple of the board members relative to it being close to the neighbors and it is somewhat close to the neighbor on soore Drive I don't know how far they are off that lot line they're built quite close um of course as dick said back then I think the setbacks over there what were they six foot back then deck I think uh yeah six feet at that time six feet at the time so when that house on so drive at the corner McKenzie and so sh were built I'm sure that's what they were dealing with um I know I had expressed some concerns last time about the second floor deck being able to look down upon the neighbor especially uh the soore drive uh neighbor but that uh by representation of the petition of seems to have been eliminated now they would like to keep the uh the rails up there for uh for aesthetic purposes um so is there any more questions from the board none okay do we have anybody in our audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition if so please come to the microphone seeing none is there anybody who wishes to speak in opposition to this petition if so come to the microphone seeing none is there anybody with their hand raised dores uh no Mr chairman okay is there anything else that you would like to add at this time Mr Phillips no thank you for your time okay then we're going to close the hearing to public input and we're going to open it up for board discussion anybody uh wish to begin a discussion on this matter Jay your thoughts um I would have like to have seen just a a correspondence from the neighbor um but it is a first floor only um and there is a fence there I believe so I don't really have a problem with it but again I would have liked to have heard something from the neighbor right next door okay Barbara your thoughts um yeah no I don't have any comments John um I mean it it is close to the side setback but um there was some correspondence here uh stating that the three immediate abutters had no oppos position um so you know if the abutters don't oppose the the uh petition you know I'm inclined to go along with it so um that's all I have yeah uh sorry I should have been able to remember from August uh so you did talk to your neighbors yes our neighbor in the rear is actually my next door neighbor at home okay go in the house the same amount of time we' own our house all right I think it's a you know it's a nice addition to the property and to the house and I don't think it's uh uh too offensive to the to the neighbors in any sense form of manner and they're not here to say anything about it and apparently they uh said it was okay so I'm I'm comfortable with the petition okay well I'm going to chime in here and and although is quite close to that lot line it does conform at the rear part of that the addition the biggest concern that I think that I had the last time that we met was the second floor deck um I just felt that that would encroach upon the neighbors privacy being so close to the uh the lot line um but uh what I could support is a uh a motion that would uh contain a condition that the roof not be used as a deck and when that means not be used as a deck that doesn't mean climbing out the window and sitting out there with your beach chairs now is that understood by you Mr Philips understood okay um otherwise I would suggest that we eliminate the railing system um but I do agree with the petitioner that I think the house itself would look a lot better with a nice railing system up there so is anybody prepared to make a motion let's see lost the numbers I would uh go ahead go ahead go ahead if you want um all right I just would uh like to uh make a motion to approve petition 5125 uh uh with the only condition being that there be no door access to the uh upper roof area and no use of the that area as a deck I thought they could climb out the window no no climbing out the window no climbing out the window either okay and no no use of that area as a deck yeah okay okay we have a motion made by dick with the condition that not be used as a deck I'll second I'll second that okay well John beat you to that one so motion made by deck second by John do we have any further discussion on it hearing none all those in favor signify by saying I I I any opposed hearing none that carries unanimously uh Mr Phillips there's a 20-day appeal period once the decision is clocked with the clerk's office after that time you can get your special permit from Dolores uh you must take it over to the registry of deeds record it and bring back a copy for our records do you have any further questions Mr chairman there's also a variance pardon me there's also a request for a variance oh is there request for variance yes we'd ask that you you don't need the variance because you got the special permit we would ask that you uh request to withdraw your petition for variance without prejudice which means if you ever needed to come back you good okay you want to do that okay so we have a uh motion made by the petitioner to withdraw his request for variance without prejudice do I have a motion on that yep so moved motion made by Dick by Dick seconded by John all those in favor I I any opposed cheering none okay that's withdrawn you're all set tonight Mr Phillips good luck with your project thank you all okay dick you have a yeah I have a conflict which I didn't recognize last time for some reason okay well I'm going to have to have you just step away from this petition until okay and we're going to go to the next petition which is petition 5133 this is also a continued petition from September 26 20124 Rose a vaner property located at 17 Allison Lane in West Yarmouth it's in an r25 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit for 104.3 point2 sub paragraph 2 or a variance from section 203.50 beside and rear setback relief to build a 16 by2 shed the applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for a certified site SL plot plan less than two years old Miss vaner are you present yes good evening good evening uh you were here last time give me one second uh you were before us last time and I think we asked you to come back with some stuff is that correct some uh do you have a certified plot plan ma'am no I do not you do not no um okay what is the status with the yard as far as being cleaned up okay well first of all I'd like to apologize I think I put the cart before the horse okay I knew that the issues that I was up against were vital more important but I had both things going at the same time and I came in to talk about it and that's when I learned that I could go ahead and try to get a variance for the shed well the shed was really secondary firstly I had the health department and the zoning board trying to help me get things organized and cleaned up and that's I didn't realize that I was messing the whole thing up so with that said working on getting those other things out of the way so that possibly we would get a variance for the shed so that my grandson can put his tools and his little lawnmowers and things in the back and away just dropping them off at the end of his workday um we had a visit from I think Rick and Bruce um I spoke to them last week he said you know we've made a lot of progress he said there's a couple of more things he said and just get them done and we'll get off your back and I don't feel like they're on my back I feel like I've needed this help and I appreciate it so um my grandson I messed up saying it was a 16 by 20 well I did the paperwork with Dolores it is an eight by 20 shed so that messed everybody up misser if I could just stop you there we don't know what it is without a certified plot PL so you need to go get one of those because we need to know where it is and what it is and how big it is so that's the first first thing that's the zoning issue the other issue is cleaning up the yard that's more of a border health issue um I thought one was but I think I think I think the board given the fact of some of the debris that's around the yard is um not really inclined to uh take a look at this while you're in violation although it is two separate things so we're going to take them separately so what we're concerned about right now is the shed so you're telling us that you don't have a certified plot plant no have you talked to an engineer no I really cannot financially afford to have the property surveyed and well let me ask you this question where's your grandson who I believe owns all this debris and is the guy using the shed why can't he do that why can't he pay for that for his grandmother I mean I you're up here kind of taking the bullet for him aren't you yeah well he I mean nothing against you you're very nice unfortunately we're we're all in a little bit of a pickle there I know I know he does so I tell you what we're going to do I tell you what I tell you what we're going to do here we're going to continue this matter for another hearing does she need to sign another extension Dolores um yes Mr chairman okay I'm gonna ask you to sign another extension and we're going to kick this thing out for uh at least 60 days what oh what what do we have for hearings uh coming up um for this year the only options would be uh November 14th or um December 12th and they both at this moment have five Mr chairman yes J I believe there's also a building per a building violation notice already in place too so no no there is uh they they will normally stay them pending our decisions so I don't think there's any uh enforcement action being taken until we until such time as we've made a decision uh but what I'll tell you what why don't we continue your matter out till December 12th we can fit her on that one um Dolores yes sir now now now listen Mrs berer uh we're going to need you to go get that certified plot plan because if we take a negative vote against you the town's going to make you remove that and I don't think you want to do that so why don't you have your grandson and you go back and huddle on this thing and and give one of the engineering companies in town a call and they can come over and draw it up for you I don't know what they'll charge but that you're going to have to get that and then you're going to have to come back to us because we don't know where this thing is that's your that's the only thing that we can recommend to you regarding the SE if I make a comment also just out of concern okay go ahead Jay I just wanted to express so that she's realizes I'm I'm very concerned about the the debris in the yard as well as the fact that it may be used as a business um because of the multiple trucks that seem to be parked in front of the location several times so I just want to put that out there that she's aware of those problems no I I agree I've got a number of uh violation notices that are in front of me right now that are addressing all of those issues um so you really need to uh to do something about this because if the town does decide to enforce this uh they're going to take you over to the courthouse uh and enforce it and they're also o going to probably fine you up to $300 a day and I don't think you want that right do not no I know you don't so I tell you what how does the board I'm going to pull the board before we make any decisions on this but would the board be inclined to uh give the petitioner until December 12th to uh come back here with a certified plot plan and show us where this building is and then we could bring this uh matter forward what the uh thoughts of the board Jay what are your thoughts I don't know if I'm not sure how fast it takes to get a get a certified plot plan right now so um I would think 60 days hopefully would be enough um but uh I would have liked to have done this sooner but I don't know that you can well that that's kind of out of our hands I agree with you there but um I I I don't see any other solution at this point except uh to go forward with this matter which will I'm quite confident will result in a negative vote which doesn't help the petitioner and doesn't put any of us in a good spot so I'd like to try to use our best efforts to to help this lady best we I I support the 60 days I just was concerned that you know not not knowing what the backlog is on some of these guys yeah no I I appreciate that and if you if you by the way Mr Viner if you go to an engineering comp and they say they can't get it done for 90 days you need to come back to Dolores with a some type of letter from them saying they can't do it we might consider an additional continuance at that time that that would require some type of proof from them uh Barbara what are your thoughts um yeah I think I think we need you know this plot plan to figure out where this thing would go it sounds it's a huge shed feet by 20 feet so eight by 16 no sorry by 20 or yeah I don't know where I came up even even at 8 by 20 exceeds the uh yeah it does it's going to have to comply with setbacks um John your thoughts yeah I I agree with the continuance this is also another one I wasn't present at uh but I did review it on online so um but um yeah I would uh you know I drove by the property clearly there's still work that needs to be done there so um a continuance is probably a good idea okay well all right so uh is anybody prepared to make a motion to continue this matter until December 12th conditioned upon the petitioner signing an extension agreement so moved second we have a second second okay we have a motion made seconded by John to continue this matter till December 12th conditioned upon the petition of signing a new extension agreement with Dolores all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I any opposed hearing none okay Miss bener we're going to uh continue your M till December 12th you know what you need to get for us right yes I do thank you very much okay if you have any further questions you can contact Dolores okay I will thank you all right have a nice night now okay the next petition dick we got you back the next petition is petition 5134 John Frederick tally Trustee of the John Frederick tally living trust uh property location at 23 eroy Boulevard West garmouth it's in an r25 zoning District the applicant seeks to overturn the decision of the Building Commissioner Andor variance from section 202.5 for B4 use with retail to sell locally harvested Lo Lobster on his property good evening sir hello John have a seat please identify yourself John T okay all right can you uh before you get going here let me see where we are here we have a we have a violation notice dated August 28th 2024 um this is from Deputy Building Commissioner Tim Sears it says Dear Mr tally has come to our the attention of the building department lobsters are offered for sale at this address this property is located in a residential Zone and this use is not allowed without relief from the zoning board of appeals this is a violation of section 202 of the town of yamon bylaw 202.4 application no building of structure cell be erected and no premises be used except as set forth in the use regulation schedule or in other sections of this bylaw if a use is not specifically Allowed by right but by special permit it it shall be considered to be not allowed unless an appeal is taken under Section 102.2 point3 and it is shown Beyond A Reasonable Doubt to be of a similar nature or at least no more noxious nor detrimental to the welfare of the neighborhood than a specifically allowed use failure to comply with the provisions of the zoning bylaw may result in penalties prescribed 101.3 penalties any person violating any of the provisions of this B shall be fined not more than $300 for each offense each day that such violation continues shall constitute a separate offense you are hereby ordered to Abate Andor correct said violations or seek relief from the zoning board of appeals as Allowed by Mass General Law chapter 48 section 7 and section 15 you are required to respond within seven days of receiving this letter you also have the right to appeal this decision with the zoning board of appeals within 30 days of this letter questions regarding this may be directed to this department very truly yours Tim Sears Deputy Building Commissioner town of yarma so that is the violation there um I have your appliation here and your application is to overturn the decision of the building inspector or you are looking for a variance um so what would you like to tell us tonight Mr T well can I hand this to the board because I have so they can look at it what do you have there well I just have my demographics of what the whole story is I just like to you know I have copies of it what what what is it exactly though okay so it's like I open up at 4:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. Sunday through through Saturday the a the average Vehicles the average eight vehicles per day mid June till end of October when lobsters are sold out I close some days I have no lobsters to sell I'm open open roughly 100 days per season I sell around 3,000 lbs of lobsters per year that's 210 lbs per week or 30 lbs per day I'm a driveth through so you can drive through one side of the property and then drive out the other and there's no traffic congestion because my Yad if If You Been by there you could put like I have like six or seven friends over there when I'm saw on the lobsters you could put 20 cars in the yard cuz it's the the house is all like gravel in the back and I have my lobster traps and I have a walkin cooler and the whole nine yards that I've had there forever and then uh I've been selling these these live fresh local sustainably sustainably Source fresh cart lobsters from my home for 40 years and I've no I've never had a problem I've sold them there for 40 years and my father sold them there since since 1958 and fish and I have and and so um I have a retail boat license and a retail truck license issued from the master division of marine fisheries which allows me to sell lobsters and whole fish to the public in restaurants so either one of those lobsters lets me do that e either one of those licenses lets me do it so that's what it's all about so I just want to be able to continue selling them I only sell them for those months and I've always sold them forever since I since I okay I mean okay well um let me just tell let me just explain the BW yep we have a use table um and there are allowed uses in certain districts and then there are uses that aren't allowed now you're in a residential district you fall under the use table I guess it's B4 and when you go across to residential it says it's not allowed let me get make sure I get the right one here I could be before even be the right uh it's retail so this would be H3 actually yeah that's what I thought so it says that it's not allowed use in this District so this board looking at that we could not consider granting you a special permit for that because we're not allowed to do that the only thing that we could Grant you is a variance and I'm not sure we certainly would give you the opportunity to argue that you qualify for a variance but let me read you the criteria for a variance says that in order for us to find you a variance would You' qualify for it says literal enforcement of the provisions of this bylaw would involve a substantial hardship Financial or otherwise to the petitioner appellant the hardship however is owing to circumstances related to the soil conditions shape or Topography of such land of structures and especially affecting such land and structures but not affecting generally the zoning District in which it is located and that desirable belief may be granted without either substantial detriment of the public good or nullifying or substantially derating from the intent purp of the bylaw so that is the criteria that you must meet in order to get a variance um I'm not I don't think you qualify for one um what I'm going to do I'm going to go to the board I'm going to let them ask you questions if they have any and then we'll come back and we'll have another discussion okay Jay do you have any questions for the petitioner uh I have a general question um you know I first of all I don't think this is a B4 use or anything in the B series it definitely is the H series but my question is whether or not this qualifies as an H h3a which would be a farmers market we're talking about selling things that a harvest what what what we're what we're here to do is to reverse the decision of the building inspector that's one of the choices that's one of the options yeah and the other one is the variance but I mean I I would not I would not override the the building inspector personally I would not do that I think what they did but my point is under Farmers Market it is allowed in in a residential district that's why I'm asking the question does it qualify well first of all I don't know the answer to that because it says it's outlined by the selectman's farmers market policy and I don't have that in front of me I don't either uh the only thing I can go off of is the building department is telling us that it's a retail business of sale of lobsters and the only place I see that falling into is the 83 and I don't believe there here from the building department to uh clarify that and it is not in the it is not it's only listed as a retail sale and that's the only use table I see not f Farmers Market well farmers markets are retail but I guess that's why I was asking I I mean I I have no questions I think what he described and I saw the I saw the recommendations that came from the neighbors so um I don't know that it fits to the food store I'll be honest with you and I'm not sure a variance would really be applicable to be to be honest either so that's why I asked the question about the farmers market and whether or not those criteria exist because it is allowed um in a residential district so that's I don't have any other questions it's just why I was asking it okay all right anything further NOP okay dick do you have any questions for the petitioner uh yeah Mr to you do you have a sign off off premises directing people to the to your house for no okay uh because I think that's one of your biggest issues here uh even if Farmer Market issue could be uh agreed upon and and anything else that comes into play here uh you're not allowed to have that off-premise sign and uh uh to direct you to uh on a daily basis to the property so it's nice of little business as it is and I know your neighbors are happy with it and um uh uh I and I understand your desire and that there could be a hardship certainly here but but uh I think that uh that number one is going to come into play uh and secondly I mean I think we have to pretty much we don't have to I guess but we uh typically we go along with whatever the building department is saying relevant to what category um your use would come come be uh come into here and in in in that case it would be hard to uh I to go against the uh the building uh administrator at this point okay John your thoughts well I agree that it's clearly not a B4 um it is a retail operation I drove by um I think on Sunday uh and I saw signs everywhere I saw signs on 28 on South Sea on Ira so there was this sign all over the place directing you to your location um secondly I saw how many lobster traps are you storing on your property do you have any idea how many uh actually for purposes of uh just for purposes of clarification I had a discussion with the building department those lobster traps are grandfathered onto his property okay thank you Mr chair he he is allowed by right to keep those there okay all right so um well C certainly there's a lot of them um and it's clearly retail so um you know the issue is uh you know again whether we're going to overturn the building inspector's decision so um I don't have any other questions but uh we'll see what the board has to say thank you okay Barbara yeah I drove by too and there you know signs off off the main roads going in there um and I mean I just don't think this should be occurring in a residential area I know you've got a lot of letters of support from the neighbors and I'm I'm sure they're happy to be able to go down the street and buy lobsters off of you um but I couldn't support this either okay um well I I'm I'm in agreement with the board as well um I I know Mr tally um known him for a long time he's very upstanding businessman in town well respected he's had that uh Lobster business there worked out of his uh yard for many many years and as I said before I clarified that with the building department that he is grandfathered in there um however um I would have to vote up hold the decision of the building inspector because I I do feel that it falls into a an a prohibited use in this area and I just don't think that you would qualify for a variance although we could take a vote on the variance if you wish us to do so and then you could have the right to appeal our decision if you were to get a negative vote you certainly have the right to appeal it to the superior court so um that would be and quite frankly you you may want to do that to preserve your rights because if you just withdraw it then you're just kind of in in limbo here and you are required to exhaust all of your administrative remedies which would be here before us should you choose to appeal any decision that was adverse to you okay to a higher authority which would be the Superior Court um had you I I do want to ask you one question had you thought about maybe selling the lobsters at a different location is that a possibility well the thing is I've sold them there for forever and there's never there was never a problem with it Sean and it's like yeah I mean I saw them there forever why has no one ever said anything yeah everyone in this town everyone in this towns bought them off me from police officers the firefighters from people from town hall even farest white when he when he was there he bought it and I've I was told by the selectman this is 20 years ago that the about the sign pad about the sign PT the signs can't be there but they they said I can sell the lobsters on the property and that's what I've been doing ever that's what I've been doing I mean if I can't if I can't do this that CU I I've got rid of all my other CU I used to catch other fish and conch and all this other stuff if and the lobsterman is so bad that there's not one lobsterman left in the town of yoth all the rest of them have quit because you can't catch enough lobsters to to you know this is what the price of the lobsters is right now $6 if I sell them I've caught 3,200 lb of lobsters this year I can't without selling these from my house I am done I I'm done I I I think your best bet is at least from where we're coming from yeah because we have a charge to interpret the bylaw okay we have a sworn duty to do that it's not I I think I won't speak to anybody and I won't even speak to myself but I I think that the board is sympathetic to your situation here however I I I don't think there's anything that we can do to Grant you relief tonight but what I might suggest is to preserve your rights that we do take a vote on this tonight and if it doesn't go your way you have the right to appeal so you could take this to a higher authority and make those arguments that you're making to us and maybe a judge might see it a different way I don't know but at least your rights would be preserved you're not represented by council tonight so I'm kind of going out of my way we don't do this with every petitioner but I want to make sure you understand your rights Y and that you have those rights preserved I just don't understand why the selectman said before that I can do it this is what I the selectman and actually the Selectmen don't have the authority to to grant that they can grant licenses um but they can't okay they can't Grant you zoning relief um so what I'm hearing from the board is it's it's pretty much unanimous if they won't support it but what I'm suggesting to you would you like us to take a vote on this well I mean but can I still then appeal it yes you can't appeal it you cannot appeal it if we don't take a vote all you can do is withdraw yeah all right then obviously yes okay I mean again I all right so okay so do we have anybody prepared to make a motion on the question of either upholding or reversing the decision of the Building Commissioner I'll make a motion to uphold the building commissioner's decision okay do we have a second to that second I'll second okay we have a motion made by J seconded by John to uphold the decision of the building commissioner do we have any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I okay that carry was unanimous to uphold the decision of the Building Commissioner the petitioner also has a request for variance is anybody prepared to make a motion regarding the variance I'll make a motion um I'll make a motion to approve the variance as as uh as requested okay we have a motion to approve the variance as requested is there a second of that not sure is that what we want well you can you can vote against you could you could actually second the motion and then vote any way you want right so if for instance if there's a motion to approve the variance and someone second in it we took a vote and everybody voted no that means the variance would fail he just voted he just made a motion to approve I'll second it okay all right so we have a motion made by Jay sec invite dick to approve the variance as requested by the petitioner we have any discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor of granting the the variance please signify by saying I all those opposed I I I okay that carries unanimous so excuse me that is a unanimous vote against the request for variance does not carry uh John there'll be a decision that is drafted it won't be this week okay because I'm kind of busy um but I will get to it when I can and I'll clock that with the Town Clerk and then after that you have 20 days to appeal it okay and we'll let you know when it's clocked Y and at that time if you wish to uh appeal our decision uh I would suggest perhaps that you you talk to an attorney about that and uh they can tell you what you have to do if you want to appeal that decision Sean I just wanted to encourage Mr Tully also to explore what a farmers market is and what that is for the select board approval that might be something he might want to pursue I don't know what the farmers market policy is I know I have it up online they do talk about C food at being sold at farmers markets I don't know if in fact you qualify as a farmers market I'm not educated on that that's not what the building department uh said here we don't have enough information uh so we only have to deal with what we have but that may be another route that you could uh come back and apply under the farmers market but how do I mean how do I do do that well I would say go to the Yarmouth Town Hall and get the farm Market policy for the selectman I just actually am on my computer right now and tried to pull it up just so we could have some information and I can't find it um so maybe you go to the town hall get that um and see if you could come back under a a different request okay and that would be from the building department no well you would what you do is get go to the town hall and get their policy if it looks like you can fit under a farmers market see Dolores fill out another application if you need to come before us if you if you if you qualify for a farmers market go talk to the building department and see if they you can just be allowed to do it but I think you're going to need some type of license for that all right but that might be an Avenue for you to either get a license um and that license is granted probably but well we have it in our bylaw but it says yes this is SE it doesn't say ba so that's a matter of right license from the division of marine fisheries because it's one of the things that you can get along with my retail boat license and my well well why don't you do this just go go to the town hall get the farmers market policy and see if you fit the criteria and then have a discussion with the building department but that's uh that's that's another Avenue that you may want to explore okay all right good luck John and John if I could just intercede too that you uh if you do come back to us you'll need to be asking either not having signs or or relief for the signs y yep yeah but so I could ask for relief for the signs and then I could have the signs is that how that works well that that that that just speak with the building department as to what you would need if that's if that's an Avenue okay all right John thank you okay okay thanks take it easy Sean thank you thanks yeah give me second here okay our next petition is petition 5138 Peggy s handland property location 11 Ivy Lane South yth Mass it's in an R40 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit for 10 4.3.2 sub paragraph 2 Andor variance from section 203.50 for side setback relief to build 10 by 15 shed the applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for a certified plot plan less than two years old good evening how are you tonight good evening I'm well how are you good could you identify yourself for the record list yes my name is Peggy Hamlin okay Peggy uh why don't you tell us what we got going here I've got a plot plan in well do I have a plot plan in front of me I do is it more than two years old yes it is more than two years old yeah um it's eight years old this was drafted up by George Davis 2016 I think when I had um an addition put on the property okay okay and uh so tell us about this shed okay so I um had a shed constructed in January of this year um replacing an existing shed the shed was on the property when I bought the house in 91 so it was a pretty old shed um and it was pretty much right on the property line the old shed was um in the back corner um when I had this one constructed I I did move it from the back the back setback the rear setback is six feet but um um the side setback is only three and a half it's constructed three and a half feet from the property line so I was hoping for a variance on that well how big is this shed it's 10 by 15 oh it's 10 by 15 doesn't look that big on the plan uh on the plan it's the old shed that's the old shed that was um I think six by 12 oh I see okay so this so you don't have a this this we can't rely on this plot plan for just one shed being replaced the same size right okay all right I didn't have a I'm remote so I didn't have a chance to go look it we have any pictures of the shed I do have some photos on my phone all right but it's 10 by 15 that's okay um well I'm looking at you lck right here why can't you move it into compliance well um really I I guess it's probably not it's not your your problem it's mine but I have um an irrigation system in the backyard and I was afraid I was gonna have to move the sprinkler heads and I don't I didn't want to get into that I guess okay and I I did have it pulled far enough from the property that I could maintain the property behind it so before I couldn't even get behind the shed now all right okay is there anything else you'd like to tell us right now um I don't think so do you have questions for me yeah we got a couple of questions for you dick you have any questions for the P I'll tell you what Barbara do you have any questions for the petitioner well I I mean I think you've got you know some other options to you know bring this this shed into compliance so I think I'd encourage you to explore that okay right I did I I'm sorry I did want to mention that I spoke to my um neighbor on that property line on that side of um that side neighbor and they were um they were fine with the the new shed okay and the placement of the new shed and I think I gave that letter to Dolores you should have that letter I think all right see have a letter and support okay I will put that in the file all right um anything else barabra yeah all right um John do you have any questions um my question is the same as yours you know why didn't you it looks like there's plenty of room to get six feet off that lot line I know you explain that there's some sprinkler heads or something uh where was the original shed is it the exact same location three and a half feet off the lot line the the original shed was practically on the property line I could not get there's a fence on the property line and I could not get between the house the between the shed and the fence it was like very close all right yeah so I mean uh you could certainly move it in a few feet and be in compliance and then this would be a done deal you know so um that's all I have Mr chairman thank you okay dick yeah um I was just looking do we know if this is an R15 or R um R20 Zone this is been a uh it's R40 now okay all right um you know I think the old and please correct me if I'm wrong with this too but I think it's uh six foot sideline for an accessory building requirement from any lot line I believe for under 100 square feet but I think if we're over 100 for sque 150 oh it is 150 okay that's what I'm looking at in mine yeah so I mean ma'am do you know exactly how big this is 10 by 15 it's all right so it's 150 feet it's that the bylaw says 150 feet or less okay so she required to six feet off all our law lcks right okay and that's fine I just couldn't remember if it was 100 or 150 um so you need 6 feet it looks like you we had uh I'm sorry you moved it further back from the back lot line you said I'm I'm definitely six feet from the back at least six okay at least six feet there and I think I'm three and a half is what they um out all right well I think uh again I think 6 feet from those those lines is not too much to assume to be uh uh an issue especially when I don't think there's any real hardship relevant into this unfortunately was just placed wrong and it could have been placed and I don't know why these shed people don't know that what they can do and can't do any each town but they don't seem to um because they should tell you you need relief or unless it's placed within a certain distance from the lines uh so I uh I don't have any other questions I I I think as the other members have said that there's room to move it if it's 3 and 1/2 ft now to uh to move it another 2 and 1/2 ft to the right I don't think should be that big an issue I know it's one you'd like not to have but um unfortunately some people drop the ball in terms of letting you know things okay Jay I think all my questions that I had were asked there's a fence and it looks like originally was on on the lot line it's moved in three and a half ft but still two andt short so I'm okay well I I'm going to chime in here as well and uh I I first off I don't think this is a special permit I think it's a variance and uh uh I I really don't see a hardship here moving a couple of springf that all due respect I mean we're we're charged with trying to bring people in compliance you can easily move that a couple of feet off your sideline setback and if it's a rear setback can do the same you only have to be six feet off which is very easy to meet um so I I I wouldn't be able to support your petition for Relief so is there anything else any other questions from the board okay uh is there anyone in our audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition if so please come to the microphone seeing none do have the neighbor is there anybody who wishes to speak in opposition to this petition if so please come to the microphone seeing none we will note that the petitioner does have a letter she claims from her neighbor in support of this petition we'll keep it in our record for you um is there anything else you'd like to add at this point ma'am no thank you okay well you heard the uh position of the board and it appears that there was not sufficient votes to favorable to Grant you a relief tonight now we could take a vote if you wanted to um that would preserve your rights to appeal if you want to appeal our decision I think it may be difficult for you to win it on appeal and I would probably just suggest that you may want to just move the shed or you can say I'm going to move the shed and withdraw your requests for Relief and we'd be more than happy to do that and then if something came up and you wanted to come back you could come back choice is yours okay I I guess I'll move the shed you'll move the okay so would you like to request from the board uh that you withdraw your requests for Relief without prejudice meaning if you had to come back you could come back yes yes so we're going to take these uh one at a time petitioner is there a motion to allow the petitioner to withdraw without prejudice her request for special permit so moved second so moved have a second to that yep second uh any discussion on it hearing none all those in favor to allow the petitioner to withdraw her request for special permit please signify by saying I I I any opposed hearing none that's allowed do I have a motion to allow the petitioner to withdraw her request for variance relief also so moved second we have a motion in a second any discussion on it hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I okay that carries unanimous as well ma'am you're all set um just do us a favor and uh move that shed please you'll be all set and you're all set with us for tonight okay thank you all right thank you very much Mr chairman C can I have a five minute recess please the board will stand in recess for five minutes thank you oh boy you oh let me get are you going to put your for see couple things I issues with J okay everybody back yes sir thank you all right no problem uh we are going to go we're going to go out of order here and we are going to take petition 514 Zer Rosanna uh wait a second here let me just uh wait wait wait wait wait let me just went her now uh Paul we're GNA hold you because that one's going to take a little longer we're going to go to petition 5141 Bruno pontis Maya and Mara R Silva 30 Grant Road West Yarmouth uh they're in a zoning District R40 APD and Zone two applicant seeks a variance from section 203.50 for side and rear setback relief to construct a 15 by3 in ground pool good evening hi good evening could you state your name for the record please Marcia the Silva ma'am could you speak closer to the microphone please we can hear you Mar Silva okay all right um all right let me see what we have here um okay uh so tell us a little bit about what you want to do here you want to put a pool in uh yes I'm ask for relief for the um here in the side setbacks about 5T so we can build it in ground pool all right um and I'm sorry but the reason that I'm asking um the plot plan is kind of self-explained the other side which the big side of the lot I have the leech field and I have the um sep tank on the back so it's pretty much the spot that I have okay okay so that's the only spot that you can build it yes all right now I I I see this this this certified plot plan is a little bit different than what we normally see okay but as I understand it those dotted lines would put you in Conformity with the setbacks so if you built it inside that you'd be all set correct yes and since you can't do that because you you got to be so far 10 ft away from the tank exactly okay so that puts you there you couldn't put it on the other side because they have to be at least 20 F from the leech field and 20 ft set back right right right okay okay all right okay um all right um is there anything else you want to tell us right now before we go to Bo we're going to go to the board for some questions they might have a few questions for you okay okay okay all right uh Barbara do you have a no I mean it's unfortunate we can't stick it down the other end um did you go with a smaller pool much smaller I guess not a possibility this is not that's not a no big no I don't have any other questions okay all right John do you have any questions um a couple uh so your neighbors any opposition from your neighbors or any no actually my neighbor on my left side he has a pool as the same size I'm planning to build in so yeah but the ones behind you it's a rental home so I actually don't see the owner just the renters and actually the winers is our friend uh they usually work with my husband so we go to over the house they come to over our house so it's so nobody's opposing no how close is the house uh behind you to the side you know I mean I can't well in our 40 zoning district there got to be at least 20 F feet off that real lot line and 20 off yeah I think it's 37 all right so they're not that close then so that's yeah I have a cop the old plot plan where it describes where this side is I mean I looked at the assessors and there was not much information there the old they can you can hand that to uh John I think you might have the uh receipt stamp thank you that the same thing yeah almost set thank you Mr chairman okay dick do you have any question questions think I have any questions I think uh so this is a variance um you know I I can certainly see that there's a hardship here IR relevant to trying to get the get a pool in anyways uh based on your uh the required setbacks and where your leeching field and septic tanks are so I can certainly see that you are keeping a 15ot distance which I think is reasonable based on some of the relief me we've been given in the past and uh so I think between there being a hardship and their being a uh hardship relevant to the uh land or structures uh and the shape thereof or the where the structures sit on the land anyways and uh I can't imagine this being any real substantial detriment to the public good especially considering apparently uh there's nobody here nobody here anyways to speak against it um I uh I think it's a reasonable request okay is that the edge of the pool or the edge of the decking that's just actually actually we're going to do deck like close to our house okay defense there won't be any decking on it's just going to beaching and those no just the just the curvy line very team thank you okay Jay do you have any questions now the deck question was what I had a question on I didn't really hear the answer so I just could you repeat that oh we're gonna continue the Pao so it's not going to be like the side fence going to be close to your house if you can see on the drawer okay so there won't be any patio on the side or the back no okay thank you that must my only question okay I don't have any questions um my comment is consistent with what uh what dick just said I think dick did lay out the criteria for a variance as well um and I do think the petitioner does meet uh the crary for a variance it does certainly seem that it's a hardship there is obviously another place that they could have gone on the lot but there's a leeching field there so that foreclosed it so um so I I think it's a reasonable request we have given relief for these in the past as well um so is there anybody in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition if so come to the microphone seeing none is there anybody who wishes to speak in opposition to this petition if so come to the microphone seeing none is there anything else that you'd like to add at this point ma'am no okay uh so we're going to close the uh petition to the public aboard discussion is uh does anybody want to have a discussion or is anybody prepared to make a motion I'll move to uh to approve uh petition 514 41 as requested by the petitioner okay that is for variance relief is there a second to that motion for variance frame second any any discussion on the motion hearing none the only thing I would add is I think Mr Martin laid out the criteria sufficient to establish a variance I do think the petitioner meets that criteria uh all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I any opposed hearing none that carries 5 z uh ma'am um once the decision is drafted uh it will be filed with the town clerk 20 days must elapse that's a technical appeal period I don't think anybody's going to appeal it um and after that you can come in and get your special permit you need to take that over to the barille County registry of deeds and record it and then bring a copy back for us for our records okay okay any questions no okay good luck with your pool thank you very much you will okay have a good night now all right our final petition is petition number 5138 Peggy s handland property location is 11 Ivy links yth Mr chairman you you I'm in the wrong one I'm sorry let me uh I I I'm one above that thank is that what you're going to tell me Dolores I'm on the wrong one yes Mr chairman thank you very much we're gonna we're going to try that one again petition number 5140 Rosanna nicolus ritis Trustee of the pun Funko realy trust um property location 81 Route 28 South Yarmouth in a B2 zoning District hod1 and bc2 the applicant speak seeks a special permit per 41433 Andor 41477 for a12 use and for relief from the Yarmouth architectural site design standards section 10 to allow the existing primary overhead electrical service to remain the utility pole on the Sid and underground in order to develop eight one-bedroom apartments and exceed need the parking maximum good evening good evening could you identify yourself for the record please of course my name is Paul tardiff I'm an attorney in yarmouthport and seated with me is Christina megason who uh who mom is the uh applicant and so she's been um instrumental in this we've working on this for over two years now so very happy to be here before you with the final product okay uh attorney please proceed thank you um the F first I just want to let the board know that um we adverti this as um Rosanna nicolus Trustee of the ponco realy trust uh when in fact it's Rosanna nicolus Trustee of the um let me get this right the rosan nikitis 2022 trust um she's been uh basically owning this property since 1994 I believe so uh if any of the abuts uh got notice of this I'm sure that they were aware of who she was I can tell you that the relief in the notice was accurate the property was accurate the ab butter list was accurate um I don't think it had any effect whatsoever and um we're just going to ask that any relief that you do decide to Grant tonight um would be in the name of the correct trust so it can match up with the registry of deeds so I just want to make sure you knew about that okay I think that's sufficient I don't think the misprint or scri era is material so I think everything will be fine all right I agree thank you um so this property is in the B2 zoning District um as well as the Village Center overlay District 2 uh and the HM od1 District uh it's not located in the aquifer Protection District uh this property has uh 25,500 ft and is currently improved with a one-story single family dwelling which was built in about 1950 um and this lot is actually has a shed also in the back um this the lot is actually shown on a plan recorded in 1970 um just to orient where this property is it's across the street almost from the um the wise living Yarmouth property um and on this side uh the we'll call at the west side is um silvercloud Towing and on the east side are the Glad cliff Apartments the captain glad Cliff apartment just so you have an Orient where you are we are on the south side of Route 28 um uh there is 155 ft of Frontage on Route 28 uh and this property reaches back 245 ft to the rear lot line it's a pretty good siiz lot um almost the entire Frontage uh along 28 uh is without a curb they're basically it's just a dirt opening and so it's very very wide and um uh currently I think there's a bunch of Machinery parked there for the town to be putting in the the sewer and um all of that um the house actually sits 161 ft from Route 28 currently it's way back there if You' driven by you probably didn't even know it was there with the machines there but it's been there a while uh it's also 59 ft from the rear and 10 ft from the easterly side boundary um the the building coverage is just under 4% currently uh and overall if you'll if you've seen this lot over the years you you'd probably have to agree that it needs some Redevelopment so um The Proposal is to get rid of the house get rid of the shed start with a fresh slate here uh and to construct a two family I'm sorry a twostory multifam structure with eight units each of them will have one bedroom uh on two stories it'll be like a townhouse style of of living the project is uh being sought through zoning bylaw section 414 Under The Village Center overlay district and again we are in zone two um the um the bylaw under 4141 point2 I think it's important to to look at that to find out what is the purpose of this bylaw what was the town trying to do and and what the bylaw says is it especially in the in the Village Center to it says to encourage develop and redevelop um Redevelopment that focuses on residential uses with a mix of compatible smaller commercial uses that will encourage people to live work and Shop in the district to promote a walkable living neighborhood this is the The Village Center uh model that we've been looking at for 25 years now I think um it's actually starting to come together a little bit we've had a few projects I know we're not the first but um this is a really good project uh if you and I I gave you a set of plans I know I gave you too much uh but I pulled out this plan which is probably the best one to demonstrate what we're trying to do so we can walk it walk you through it um what we're going to do is we're going to create a 24t uh curb cut so uh the the rest of the property over on this side will have a curb and sidewalk uh running right along it right here this is going to be the opening to get into this property uh um that opening uh is a shared driveway we we talked to the owners over at silvercloud um and they're thinking about doing something we were thinking about doing something so we decided to go to them and see what we could do so we could have a nice shared um uh entrance travel ways to get in and out of both properties uh we reduce curb cuts that way uh we keep it um in compliance with the uh the zoning bylaw and that gets us in and out uh of our property as well as theirs so that's a that's a major plus and that gets us all the way to the back of that property um there's also going to be in the front here you can see there's an infiltration uh system that's being installed in the front that'll handle a lot of water coming off of the off of the roadway there's also a very long uh infiltration system that runs along the back of the building uh along with that parallel to that boundary with the uh glad Cliff it's kind of thin on the plan there and in the back here there's also a rain Garden plan so we'll have some plantings there and also be able to absorb some additional Waters there um the building itself um as you can see it's going to be perpendicular to Route 28 uh the lot was not wide enough to allow it to go facing 28 so we turned it around that way um so what's and and I think you have the elevations as well but basically you're going to have three sections to this um to this building the first is this front section is going to have four units uh of two stories this middle section here is going to be one story and that's going to house the um the sprinkler control room and also a laundry room for all of the residents so that'll be a break in the roof right there and then uh almost an identical building same as this one up here with another four units in the back that way um access to the units again all from the Westerly side so parking here here here and also along the back here uh for additional parking and we're going to get to parking in a minute uh we do have a walking path that brings you right up to the the um the uh sidewalk up along Route 28 which is important and there's also a uh a bike rack over here so people want to take your bike to to work or uh down to the beach um that'll be available there as well um this is in the B2 zoning District um so the setbacks uh are set forth in 2035 which requires a 30t set back in the front 25 on the sides and 20 in the rear um this new structure is going to be 31.9 ft from Route 28 so it's going to comply in the front uh 25.5 ft from the easterly setbacks over here it's going to comply uh it's also going to be 632 feet to the rear so that also complies uh because this is a shared driveway I think we still are going to meet the 25t here uh it might be close but again we're not going to be um we're going to be sharing this this whole path with them uh this can I stop you there for a minute uh sure counil because I wasn't aware of that so you're telling me that this property and silvercloud are going to be sharing your driveway correct yep so you're going to have their trucks going through this driveway well no their trucks are going to come in to the top and they're going to they're going to turn into their property here about halfway down we going to have we're going to have a 24ot path all the way down so we can reach all of our space in the back and in the front and so if we put condition in that no silver trout Cloud trucks will be allowed to get down that driveway you're comfortable with that no I'm not comfortable with that because that is a shared Mutual easement agreement that we're both using the same path yeah we we can have a discussion with that but they got some big trucks and who who's going to live in here by the although they're one bedroom so maybe that concern won't be as much of a concern we're not expecting a lot of kids in here I take it uh correct we're we're hoping to have a lot of uh young professionals and with the one bedroom that's you know basically starter housing this is going to be leased um yearly leases is the um intention here uh one of these units is going to be deed restricted for able um and that we've run already through the community housing department so that will happen um what is the uh what is the occupancy per unit well it's one bedroom so I that's two two people correct so what if what if we have a mother and a three-year-old running around with these uh trucks running in and out of here well there um um see this wasn't brought to our attention before this I mean I I think we probably I mean we can have a further discussion but I will tell you that that's a a major concern of mine can I just say um can I just step in real quick so um the woman Marie who um owns silvercloud yeah silvercloud if you're looking at the property from 28 silvercloud is almost too over to the right she owns Silver Cloud and then she owes that single family um with property with Silver Cloud I know Marie quite well okay so she's going to be going in the Silver Cloud entrance they have their own entrance she will not be using our easement for her trucks because she's going to have a a single family there and then she has a personal Garage in the back so her trucks should not be being used for are you as the are you as the petitioner willing to accept that I condition that no Silver Cloud trucks will be traveling on that driveway y Sean we We can't agree to what another property owner is going to do but I we could inquire about that well I I I guess I guess I want to know who owns that driveway it's shared between two Property Owners so you guys do not have you don't own the property yeah we we own a have there's already existing easements there currently not not not with you know Silver Cloud there there are easements that go back for the use of that property um the the mutual agreement that we have is with Miss nicoladis and with Marie Karen see this is my concern ever since we granted relief to silvercloud and we try to alleviate it by giving them that big garage across the street is they pull their trucks in and they got to back them in and they disrupt all the traffic on 20 8 they won't have to do that anymore now they can pull right in and when they leave they can circle around and go right out your driveway they're going to be doing that every day all day well I the the um the the property that um is shared with Marie they actually have she has um that like rental houses that she put so it's Silver Cloud then she has her like um the apartments that she built right those those are my understanding are for hery employes go ahead yeah yeah I don't know what you use them for but they're like Apartments so that's on the other side of Silver Cloud and then behind that is where she has her single family and the easement that we share on the other side if that makes any sense so she can't there's no way she can take her trucks and and loop it around because she has that big garage and then the apartment I'm not I'm not following you there I I I I think what I would like to see is more of uh in I I I mean this isn't showing anywhere on that it doesn't there's no mention at all of a shared easement with silvercloud there AB absolutely is where well it's it's in the site plan review notes it's in the planning board notes it's on the plan hold on here maybe I missed it okay it's everywhere we we can go on here I just and maybe the others don't feel as strongly about that as I do um but I I just have a real conc concern these guys run big trucks and you're talking about running big trucks up and down a driveway that's strictly a residential driveway it's not coming in here as a commercial driveway well actually it is well it you you you may say that but that's not the representation that I see that what you're asking here you're asking to come in here with eight one-bedroom units and what happens if a single mother rents one of those units with her three-year-old kid and he runs out in one of silver Cloud's guys flying around the corner and runs the kid over well uh I you know I guess you could say that about anything on Route 28 couldn't you I mean we're not on 28 we're we're in a we're in what's not a a commercial area right here this is the B2 zoning District what's that it's a B2 zoning District on Route 28 oh I understand that but you're not you're not coming in asking to develop a business you're coming in here asking to develop a residential correct area correct okay so I'm treating this as a residence all right I yeah you you we we don't have to argue about that now but well yeah I mean I guess I guess what I would say is that you know this was done at the uh at the uh behest of the site plan review team I mean the Kathy Williams they don't they don't have the authority to make these decisions no I understand I understand so um I'm just telling you right now I I don't know if maybe we want to think about this a little bit um but I'm I'm not going to be able to support just a blanket Silver Cloud gets to use this driveway so if you guys want to think about how you might want to rework this thing with them I don't know if there is a way to rework it with them I don't even see where there's an entrance to and from I mean that's invisible when I look at this right here I see a definitive property line that runs right down there it has no mention at least not to me um and and I'll look in my notes Here but and if you can point out where it says that Silver Cloud is going to share this driveway I'd like to know because I read through this thing today and I didn't pick up on that well the the easement is shown on here for E Ingress and egress uh the property is lo denoted as owned by Marie Karen um well maybe she granted you guys an easement to use it that doesn't mean that you guys have a shared driveway well we do and we already have that easement in place we just expanded it well the property hasn't been used I know what the property's been used for for forever there one little house that's been sitting in the back of that lot forever and and the store up front there was a I think there was also a little gift shop that was in the front of the property wasn't there correct yep yeah now like I said I I I like the plan I like everything about it but what you're suggesting relative to sharing this with silvercloud is problematic for me so you do you have a problem with the shared driveway or just the the trucks that will be using it the the shared well if the shared driveway were cars that were coming from silvercloud and going out maybe that would be okay but their their trucks I mean they I anybody who is familiar with silver Cloud's operation which I am okay knows what type of trucks they have they got great big Wreckers that come in and out they're in and out of there all the time sure and they come in and they usually have to tie up traffic on 28 so they can get in and out of there this just gave them a turnaround so they don't have to worry about that anymore they're coming in their own or they're going to come in your driveway there's nothing to prevent them when they come back why can't they can just pull right in your driveway right and pull into their yard in the back it's a mutual easement correct yep um and and I and I'm I mean this was this was probably put in place with the planning board long ago I'm surprised you didn't see it or see it in the notes I I I well I I've got the planning board bcod site plan review which I did read I'm not seeing where it says a shared driveway with silvercloud well it's with Marie Karen and it's um it it is referenced in there isn't it I don't see it anywhere I'm I'm looking at site plan review comments on page two well I'm looking at your town of Yarmouth planning board vco site plan review September 5th 2024 yep access to the property now I have the I have the uh site plan review comment sheet yep okay so I'm I'm going back to the planning board bcod s plan review for June June 5th well I don't have that one I got September 5th 2024 that's the second well which one is the the most accurate one well the second one is revised because we had to re reconfigure the the whole plan because we had a fire truck turnaround in the front that pushed this building all the way to the back and that that we that we were able to reconfigure that so um so that's good good no I I I read all that that's fine I know there was a concern about the number of parking spaces and you put those in the back yep that's okay like I said Paul everything looks fine except this issue with silvercloud that's not fun all right so we so how do we get around that and and quite frankly maybe it maybe you don't even care about it because you got five members sitting here and maybe four of them don't care about that would you like me to pull the board to see if that's an issue well I'd like to finish my presentation if I could I'm sorry go right ahead I I I beg your pardon oh thank you um so the height of this structure is going to be 27.8 ft um building coverage will go to 17.5% and the impervious coverage is going to be 60% we're maximum of 80 is allowed um as I indicated one's going to be deed restricted affordable and there's even a a requirement that there be a tree canopy coverage requirement of at least 30% of the lot and we do meet that as well um we talked a little bit about the parking there's a requirement that you have a minimum of one per unit um and a maximum of one and a half per unit which really doesn't make sense you can put more on so we're proposing 16 because again we do uh we do anticipate that this will be used by um young couples that typically would have two cars uh for work um so it's it's there if we need it anyway um the um so the the first thing that we need a special permit for tonight is that parking increase basically we're giving you more parking than what is permitted and so uh we have to ask for a special permit for that um second uh the proposal is to bring the electric power from the street uh overhead to the first pole on the property which I I don't know if you can see Sean can you see where I'm pointing yeah I found I found that poll you have it on your utility sheet but it's a little difficult it's about uh what 50 ft in or something uh it's probably about that maybe a little less um but what we're planning to do is keep the pole and keep the the overhead wire from the street to the pole and then go underground after that so uh and and there's a couple reasons for that one is that pole the wire that feeds that pole is actually located on the other side of Route 28 on the north side of 28 so we would have to yeah go under come underneath Route 28 to put it underground correct yeah yeah so we'd like to leave it and then go underground there the second problem is that there was also power from that pole being fed to the captain glad Cliff which is the property on the East so we'd have to disturb them as well so we're again I don't think it's a big deal uh we're going to go underground from there um but that that would be the second form of relief that we would need in all honesty Paul that's the one that I was going to complain to you about that was really my only complaint but since you just explained that okay good you feel better yeah okay good um yeah and then I I just I don't know how others feel about it but I had a concern about that as well but I I I think the explanation that you've given it it would certainly make it difficult and probably very costly to running under Hebrew 2 agreed agreed uh okay go go ahead and then I just want to go through the last Point um is again this Mutual easement agreement that we have I hate to keep bringing up Sean but um obviously if it in theory I think you would have to agree it's a great thing we're cutting down curb Cuts we're having uh internal flow rather than out on 28 we want to get cars and trucks off of there we don't want them blocking like you said so that's a good thing the the bylaw itself um talks a lot about um uh applicants congregating parking and access free passage between Lots trying to create this whole village type of fi so um and I think that's that's a good thing and so we can't vegetate it because we're using it for Access so that would be the last form of relief that we we need so those would be the the three things that we are seeking by way of special permit uh again we've been to the site plan review team on April 16th designed Review Committee on May 7th uh the planning board first on June 5th and again on August 21st community housing committee on July 8th and then to the Conservation Commission because we are in the hundred-year flood zone in this property so they also gave us an order of conditions granted on September 9th of of this year um so again I I I I think it's an outstanding plan I really do and I don't think we're going to have those issues that you're concerned about but we are willing to address those Sean um we can get some more information from uh Marie about what her intentions are with regard to that and if she gives us permission to uh allow conditions to that effect I have no problem coming back and and letting you know about those before we uh take a vote I have no problem with that okay well those are just my concerns that four other members may not feel the same way and you might not need my vote um but uh if you're done are you done with your presentation I am okay uh we're going to go to the board now for some questions Jay do you have questions for the petitioner um I don't have any further questions but I'd echo my your concern about the driveway that's it okay uh Barbara do you have any questions for the petitioner um no I think you know I I'd agree we' need some assurances about um the shared driveway and how that would work you m Mr chairman if I could um just I'm I'm understanding that there's a concern about this but I want to know what the concern is is it trucks or other cars because if it's cars TR TR TR okay it's trucks it's the the type of vehicle I got it if I if I could add to that too that we don't know what the potential use of next door would be uh in the future could be any number of things that might be obnoxious in some cases and so that's you know kind of a concern and I'm I I've been looking through here about the for the section I think it makes reference to um you know Common driveways uh can you make note of where that is for me because I'm not really finding it now well I mean there is there is and my other concern with that would be the fact that if you do that uh common driveway where is the buffer gone there is no more buffer between two different properties and different ownerships um uh here I know when I know this was done at one point at the CVS and and convenience store down in West Jou by Higgins croll and they had to put a buffer zone um on each side of the pro of the common common driveway yeah I think it's over at um I do the same thing with at Mike's Roast Beef and the dollar there's one there um but I know that there is but they're landscaped on both sides this doesn't account for any Landscaping on either side yeah I'm looking for your um it's it's something that kind of kind of talked about it well I don't even know if we have anything in the bylaw about that yeah well and if we you don't you don't find a lot of common driveways they're generally I think done by easen aren't they Paul um they are but I know that there are there are zoning bylaws and I I'll I'll find them for you that basically want easy access between build uh commercial properties yeah but that didn't necessarily mean there would be no buffer trees or plantings or or or a buffer driveway so to speak or or 10-ft buffer or whatever between the common driveway the common driveway on some of those properties was put on the you know right down the line between the two properties but then it divided but it also had buffers in both cases like you say at Mike's well I'm just looking at one one thing in the VC is that they even allow zero foot setbacks on side yard setbacks but that's for that's for where you're going to have a buildings kind of go along the street Edge and and and you're going to combine in essence two lots by doing that yep um well what I mean if this is shared you got a 20 foot you got a 24 foot wide driveway is that do you need 24 ft I guess you probably do right two travel Lanes correct well I mean you could always put plantings by way of agreement with silvercloud and put the plantings right on their property if you want to have a buffer we we could could they give you a buffer easement no not not yet um but we could inquire about that we we we could have a little discussion about that I mean I think it needs to be on at least one side yeah well I mean if you but you try to it looks like you got enough it looks like you got enough property running right down their side side of the whole property line there I'm using the property line as this edge of the driveway that runs down but on silvercloud side I think you could probably plant unless they've got it all black top back there but that can always be dug up but you could put plantings along that side of the driveway which would be on their property right if they would agree to that but I think the biggest concern that I have as I said before these big trucks of their running in and out of there and I know they're going to I know what they're going to do they you can say they're not going to use it that much and I like the guys at Silver Cloud I grew up with them I know them all they're very nice like Marie Teddy's great sure they're all good over there but the problem is they run big machinery out in and out of there and I do think you need some type of a buffer because this is residential and you know they're running in and out of there all the time with right I mean I mean to add to that Sean we this is residential and if they're going to be looking across the parking lot right into another um another business and there be no buffers on either side and that business might be a trucking business um not good in my estimation okay and I do have some other concerns and comments too when when and if you want me to do them let me ask you this Paul yep you got a 25 foot rear setback could you push that building back um to we well we it's 20 ft that is permitted um you got 25 I see if you pushed all that back you get another five feet that would give you five ft of for planting purposes you could shift your driveway just a little bit that way maybe you could plant stuff along there I I'm just a suggestion it looks like you got a lot of room in the back so Mr chairman if I can sum it up so Y and and maybe we can take an informal poll but currently we don't really have any issue with having 16 parking spaces I I take it and and we don't have any problem with the electrical pole being left where it is and then the running on ground from there uh I I have a problem with that not with me not with me anyway I have a problem with that that the other businesses have been forced to do that were able to do that and did do that dig under 28 y i I also as long as I'm talking again have another question relevant to you said it's 155 foot Frontage on this lot I only see 105 foot Frontage the the minimum requirement is 125 ft I don't think I did I say 155 yeah wa five 105 105 so you need relief for that too then because a minimum requirement in a vco district for a v uh mean for VC where it go here for the vc2 is 125t Frontage it's 120 125 105 do you pick that up when you consider the easement on the other side of the driveway nope I think it's I think it's just it's pre-existing I don't I don't think I need to I don't think I need that well we we we could we we could investigate that if if you did I I don't know how the others feel I mean it's my understanding that if it require for this District um is 125 ft I think under the terms of what the vcd is trying to do I think you need to have that that or ask for Relief yeah I think you need a variance for that I need a variance for that well if you don't have the requisite Frontage wouldn't you no 414 requires a special permit well 414 requires a special permit but if you're not in Conformity with their mandatory conditions wouldn't that suggestion needed a variance how do we Grant a special permit to override mandatory conditions 41 14.3.3 says so let me find that because I was actually looking for that 44 where are you Paul 414 3 3.3 3.3 of appeals special permits um exp for all districts except right but but if you go to if you go to 414 se8 bcod design standards right would that not fall under design standards would think that the design Review Committee would have told us about it well they also say that any they well they well I'm afraid ities but I I think if you read that um it says that the VC design standards are not to be applied to an entire site of existing and new buildings and structures on the site it is not the intent of the bcod standards to allow for partial site compliance which is which is what the site the special permits for that's that's that's why it provides you with a special permit granting Authority okay well I I to be honest with you we we could discuss that I mean I I guess if we're talking in terms of the 105 ft versus the 125 um I mean I I think I could live with the the because we're dealing with a we're dealing here with something that I think that we would like to accomplish the town would like to I I think everybody likes the idea I mean if you thought you needed variance relief you might we've granted variance relief before for less than the frontage that's required in other situations now we could talk about that but let's just say for AR for discussion that it's special permit criteria for now okay so uh all right well I think the biggest thing that I'm well dick obviously has raised some concerns that he has I think that other board members may share relative to the separation of these two particular pieces of property I mean I I share those concerns too so I I I think the the two things that are really important not that anything else isn't important is the buffer between the properties and the commercial trucks running up and down this driveway now we call it an easement you guys call it an easement I call it a driveway when I look at this site I look at this as a residential site not as a mixture in a B2 zoning District where you've got heavy equipment running in and out of there so these are the two issues that I have um so you've heard the board but what what are your thoughts well I think I think we uh need to get some more information for you um and I and I can talk to um the abutter and see what we're what the intentions are for using that and maybe we could get that resolved uh with regard to the types of vehicles second is we could also inquire about a buffer or at least something from the back lot line up to um you know an entrance or exit that peels off onto the neighbor's property we could at least talk about that a little bit um we can um I'll check with the Building Commissioner regarding the um lot width and whether or not we need a special permit or variance and I can also um we'll talk to the engineer about for the utilities Going Underground from across the street and see what we're talking about by by way of cost cuz if it is a variance for that and I don't think I think it's a special permit um uh I I think that could be would you would you do me a favor I mean because while you're talking to them can you review this 4148 because the the the wording in that it says shall comply so if we as a board are granting you a special permit and the bylaw says that you shall comply um and one of those is the underground utilities how do we issue a special permit for something that you're not complying with it has the word shall what what section are you in Sean 4148 the the the the first paragraph up there uh yeah yeah it's it talks about that uh for new developments and Redevelopment like to use the bcod provisions relative to use intensive use buildings parking and other applicable standards provided as part of this section of the zoning bylaw shall comply with the following design standards and compliance to these standards shall be demonstrated through site plan review operational regulations of the Yarmouth planning board members of the site plan review design Review Committee planning board shall also use the most recent version of the town of Yarmouth architectural and site design standards to review applications and his compliance with the Yarmouth architectural and site design standards shall be mandatory so you know it's mandatory to put those utilities underg ground I I I don't know how we get around that but for a variance that's my thoughts I mean I don't know what Mark's thinking about that but I'd like to know his opinion on that yep we can talk to him about that so at this point Mr chairman I think it might be better if we um just continue this [Music] for I heard your schedule yeah I don't know when we can get we I mean how soon you trying to break ground well I mean when it's ready I mean this project is going to take a while anyway that this isn't something you're going to blast up in six months I don't think if you are you're doing a good job um I mean I think right now we're probably looking at January given the holidays I mean how soon could you come back um well I I got Brian yugan I have to talk to him about a couple of issues um Mr chairman Mr ugan has his hand raised if that means anything well hold on one second let's let's talk about when we have uh and I'll let him speak in just a moment let's because maybe we can clarify some of this um when would we be able to see them again what what do we have for hearings Thor well for November 14th you could put a six one on there I don't know what their time frame is would you be ready by November 14th Paul well that's why I probably want to bring Brian in because I need um I I doubt it why don't we bring him why we we'll come back to that why don't why don't we recognize Brian right now Brian can you hear us I can hear you loud and clear can everyone hear me yes tell us your thoughts all right good good evening uh yeah for the record Brian Yan professional engineer from BC group I it's too bad nobody saw my hand raised earlier I I probably could have answered some of these questions a lot sooner rather than listened to the back and forth um you know the building inspector was aware of the 105 foot Frontage and my recollection was that that's a pre Mark said that was a pre-existing non-conforming condition and it didn't require relief um I met with mark on this project two different times I went in and sat down with them for at least 45 minutes and we went through everything um we drug up you know he he dug up everything all the past um past permits for this project but the other thing which I think everyone is missing here is that the relief uh well a couple different things one of them is we're requesting relief to eliminate the required 10 foot landscape buffer between the travel Lane and the Westerly property line that's part of the relief we're seeking for the obvious condition because we have a shared driveway which extends on both properties that's not that's not on the application this one it's on the it's on the title sheet of the plan I don't know well be that as it be that as it may the other thing that's most important here is that the relief that we are seeking is and it's described in section 414 I unfortunately can't tell you the exact chapter and verse right now but the relief that we are seeking is in the form of a special permit and that's one of the provisions of section 414 the bcod bylaw Y is that it gives you the as the special permit granting authority to grant that relief not in the form of a variance but as a special permit Mark was very clear on that as was Kathy Williams your town planner okay well uh and that Shar driveway for the record that Shar driveway has existed for a long time as a shared driveway we're we're merely slightly reconfiguring it for the record well that that that's okay but just to get back to where we're at what you're developing here is a residential community and I don't think it's compatible with large trucks under understood that that's I'm just saying for the record not act like this is new this is existing if I may this plan is very deceiving because in no way did I look at this plan and I've been looking at it a lot today and there's nowhere that I saw that there was going to be a Shar and I read through all the materials and I didn't see anywhere where it said it's going to be a shared easement and a shared driveway the easements are shown on the plans they're on Multi well I understand what that means but it's not described to us and it's and like you know as Paul alluded to it's definitely in all the documents from going back to bcod design review VC site fine review there's a shared driveway with silvercloud doesn't say silvercloud because silvercloud doesn't uh own that property that we abut who owns it now formerly Marie Karen well okay I'm not gonna we're not okay that's fine is there anything else you'd like to that's nope that's it thank you thank you Brian all right Paul um you've heard our concerns um why don't we talk about uh H how soon do you need to C all right Dolores we have five on the next one what's the one after that that's December 12th that has six because of the other one that was continued from Miss fer that that lady yes sir what's a 100 what's 100 days from tonight what's the date on that I don't know my Paul Paul can you can you uh when would you like to come back how soon um hard to say it sounds like there's no room left in November or December um what are the what are the dates in January again you could be November 14th because we said we could put a six one on November 14th it was a question of whether that gives you enough time to be prepared for that and to get the stuff in their packets and everything um it doesn't hurt to get on there if we if we can't we can't I'll let you know and um you know ask for and I'll send the extension Sean and well well yeah sure I I mean I think in terms of what we're talking about here though I don't think if we put you on what you're coming back for I and and I think I want to discuss this with the board so everybody can weigh in on what their concerns are and what they want to see but my concerns are the driveway okay shared with the other side and the trucks coming through as well as the natural buffer between the two and also I would like to delineate this shared driveway uh there's got to be some type of a gate it can't be just wide open all the way down is it it's curbing it's it's curbing yes sir it's also striped no parking the 5ot section which is over the proper it's just asphalt meets asphalt and there's a a painted line that says no parking on it with the diagonal is that how it's going to look no asphalt it'll look the same as any other Drive AIS 20 24 foot wide with a curb and the last five feet of which is striped no parking but there's still a curve it's a finished finished Drive aisle doesn't have an opening proposed on to you know 807 well there's going to have to be something that's an opening there because we just can't have this isn't going to be a parking lot that goes into the other the other prop property it's not going to be a parking lot into a parking lot so something's going to have to be delineated there to show that the two properties are separated and that there is a a dedicated driveway area to pass in between and then we're going to have to talk about a condition about what can drive in there what can't drive in there those are my thoughts so I'm going to go to the rest of the board before we talk about a new date because May determine as to how soon you want to come back let's go to the board right now 2 yeah your concerns are uh the underground utilities yeah and the uh lack of uh any kind of landscape buffer between the two properties okay and uh and confirming whether utilities right and confirming whether the frontage is adequate okay John how about your concerns well yeah I mean initially when the the point was raised a red flag went up having uh you know trucks run down on a residential side of the is a big concern of mine it was so I mean I Echo everybody's concern I do have a couple quick questions if I could get them wasn't a fire hydrant supposed to be put on the property and where would that be it's right there right in that little front area right there oh that little that little thing brand new got you and then how big are these units in square footage isn't there a minimum they need to 700 700 is that's what they're going to be okay that's it yeah do you have a do you have an actual layout of these that was that was provided as well am I missing the page somewhere in the packet architectural plant for provided by ER Architects part of the package okay well I'll look through that if I don't have it then we'll request it is there more to the plan than this big plan that I have yeah it's the it's a separate one Sean it's aold so it's not in this plan okay folded sheet who design who designed the interior of the uh who designed the interior in the ER Architects maybe it's somewhere here I'll take a look at that but that's okay yeah my big concern is is the Shar drive for sure thank you thank you okay barara with this shared driveway the trucks are coming down here how do they turn around and get back out they just drive over the other side and drive out the other driveway on silvercloud they drive in silvercloud they drive out the residential or they pull into the residential and they pull into silvercloud and they drive out it's always been silver Cloud's problem when we originally gave him relief here we didn't really think it through that well and they've always been a problem there on 28 they pack a lot of their their stuff across the street but they seem to acquire a lot of equipment but they're not before well they're not for us tonight but they're part of this petition all right that yeah that was my question all right that's all okay um Jay um my main concerns are are really just uh um the traffic you know commercial traffic through that with trucks Etc and then also some kind of uh landscape buffer along with the at least along the front half of the um of the shared driveway okay let me ask you this question Paul do they need to use that driveway um well I I I can clarify that I mean I I have a feeling that they they're planning on using it because we they don't use it now do they yeah well there there are easements already in place there like no I understand that but they don't use it now um I'm not sure if they're using it right now they're not using it right now but there is a like a it was the old they used to sell like like blow up stuff there I don't know it's like a house right on the corner there um I think she's thinking of using that as like a a rental property single family rental property um so they I if they've been using this if they've been using that as an easement boy I'll tell you they uh well I won't even get into that right now um I I don't think they've been using it the reason why I ask I mean if they don't need I mean is this and I I don't know what your discussions are with them but it sounds to me like this is a condition with them is that fair to say that they can use that driveway to turn around their trucks well we're going to find out what they're going to use it for and well but but a part of it is their property that's that's the you know that's why we did the easement so well if they if that's their property why haven't they just blown a hole in that side of the property and pulled their trucks in there and right around all this time why have they been backing trucks in and out of Route 28 and stopping traffic because she has that she has have knocked that wall down a long time ago yeah she has that single family there and then she has that like a little apartment complex and there's like a fence uh like a chain lick fence that goes almost all the way down so maybe that's why they don't use it in I don't know they just don't use that side of the property for their trucks but I mean it looks like it's on your proper it's just they have a right anas a part of this is on theirs too well yeah yeah we'll find I'll find that out for you Sean okay well so who what do we have on for uh November Dolores can you can you be ready to go in November Paul or is that unrealistic yeah Mr chairman ear drawn up and everything he just got a lot of moving Parts here and yeah I don't want I don't want to rush you and I don't want to our agenda if what you're not coming in I I so Mr chairman to answer your earlier question about about a 100 days out would be our first Hearing in February would be February 13th and I don't know what about January sure you do January can you do January dates you have for January for January one moment thank you Dolores you're welcome Mr chairman and what's the weather going to be on those [Music] days well in January would be January 9th or January 23rd January 9th be the ninth right I'm away you're away on the ninth yep cancel that what about the 23rd I'm back why why don't we put you on for the 23rd that way you can get all this stuff we can answer some questions maybe we can get some feedback going back and forth and and out okay I I think that's the best way to go yeah okay so could we um continue this to the January 23rd meeting and I'll sign the extension that you need I'm fine with that is the board okay with that yeah yes okay do do we have a motion to continue the matter till January 23rd so move okay I got a second second all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I okay I that passes unanimously Paul we'll see you on the 23rd of January in the meantime maybe we can get some information okay uh that you can uh provide over to us that would be very helpful and uh chat with Mark about whatever we you may need or may not need to answer some of those other questions uh and we'll see you on the 23rd great thank you thank you all right thank you very much um okay uh do we have minutes to approve Dolores uh no Mr chairman we don't we do not we don't I'd like to make a motion to adjourn well okay do I hear a second of Jay's motion I'll second all those in favor I I okay every everybody have a good night thank you very see thank you all